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Going over the fiscal cliff "looks like where we're headed," says Senate Majority Leader Reid....
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Thursday, December 27, 2012, 10:23 AM ETGoing over the fiscal cliff "looks like where we're headed," says Senate Majority Leader Reid. S&P 500 losses accelerate, -0.7%.
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To blame just one party is just ignorant, both parties failed here, extremism is alive and well here in the US and it's destroying our ability to compromise.
Boner owns this one.
youngman's comment is exactly what is wrong with our government and constituents these days.
And this is all Boehner's fault. He owns the fiscal cliff.
Reid and the Dems may also be lacking a spine, but it is impossible for them to compromise with terrified, entrenched morons who refuses to vote for any tax increase whatsoever.
Taxes will go up on everyone and the Republicans will refuse to make a deal, then do their best to blame Obama. If the Republicans just do the right thing, they will raise taxes at the top level, which is obvious to anyone who has a brain and isn't terrified of the idiot brigade (otherwise known as the Tea Party). They won' do that - their plan is to let chaos occur and blame the Democrats.
Thats just rolling the dice with the nation's finances so that maybe you have a better chance of keeping your job for two more years.
Pretty disgusting.
Boehner and the Republicans may also be lacking a spine, but it is impossible for them to compromise with terrified, entrenched morons who refuses to vote for any spending decreases whatsoever.
Taxes will go up on everyone and the Democrats will refuse to make a deal, then do their best to blame Boehner . If the Democrats just do the right thing, they will cut spending at the top level, which is obvious to anyone who has a brain and isn't terrified of the idiot brigade (otherwise known as the Liberal Left ). They won' do that - their plan is to let chaos occur and blame the Republicans .
That's just rolling the dice with the nation's finances so that maybe you have a better chance of keeping your job for two more years.
Pretty disgusting. Why can't they see things the right way
I revert to what I said previously... both parties are sucking the life out of Americans and turning them against each other. We the people have been lulled into a stupor and have let Washington dictate how we want our country to be instead of us dictating to them how the country should be led.
Vote them all out, term limits, salary caps, and no more free rides for life... you shouldn't get wealthy working for america; america should get wealthy while you work for it.
I appreciate your attempt at humor. Its funny in a way and I understand your feeling that both sides are doing the same thing. However, there really is nothing on the Democrat side that compares with the fear-of-Grover that prevents the Republicans from compromising on taxes.
The Democrats are not inclined to cut spending on social programs. The Repubs are just as resistant to cutting spending on the military complex. So neither side wants to cut spending on "their" stuff. However, only one side has drawn a line in the sand over taxes and that inflexibility is hurting the Republican party and the nation.
No line in the sand for dems though? Wake up.
Give me a frigging break.
I'm not sure if you were asking me, but I'll try to answer your questions...
Why hasn't Obama submitted a budget? Actually he has, but they don't pass Congress. Congress writes the budgets or starts with the one from the president and changes it.
Why are we running budget deficits under Obama? Because Congress passes budgets with big deficits and Obama signs them. Congress writes and passes these irresponsible budgets.
What is good about Obamacare and its new taxes? Well Obamacare does many good things, like raising the age of a dependent to 26 (Good for those with serious diseases who would have no coverage), eliminating the insurance company denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions (useful for anyone who has been screwed by their insurer) and creating a public safety net, providing insurance coverage to those who cannot buy it. This is intended to help the medical system which normally absorbs that burden. I'm not sure what new taxes are tied to Obamacare - for anyone who has insurance I think there are few, if any new taxes.
If you refuse to get coverage, I think there is an IRS penalty of some sort.
Why is it the GOP's fault if we go over the cliff? First of all the cliff is just hype. We need more responsible budgets, as you yourself seem to believe. Going over the cliff raises taxes and cuts spending, so I would think you'd be for it. In my opinion it is the GOP's fault because they have been completely inflexible on raising taxes, which nearly every reasonable economist says we need to do.
Why more taxes when the government overspends? The government can cut spending and we'll still have big deficits. Bush's tax cuts were just too extreme - helping to make the deficits much worse (after Clinton-era fiscal prudence). So we have to raise taxes back toward the Clinton levels, before the Bush cuts - which look irresponsible to many.
Why haven't I voluntarily given more of my money to the government? I don't want to. Like many people, I think the tax laws should be simple and fair - bring in approximately as much as we spend - sharing the burden. In my opinion corporate taxes are too low, personal income taxes (payroll taxes) are too high and capital gains taxes are relatively too low (compared to taxes on doing work). Guess who has the most clout in DC?
just tell me what the Dems line in the sand is, please. I like to have constructive conversations/debates. Social security? Obama is willing to make some changes. Medicare? Maybe. But you can't just say "Give me a break" and provide nothing of substance. I am willing to learn from you if you have anything to offer.
You tell me, what have the democrats offered to cut? I don't mean a BS slowing of the growth rates, I mean spend less tomorrow than today;real $ cuts.
Let me save you some time and give you the answer-------nothing.
The Dems weren't that rigid/stubborn/foolish.
I never said I was opposed to cutting government spending, but I'd start with our military and some changes to social security.
Prosperity? Equality? Please inform me.
This is Obama's to own. The President can get something done here - or not. That's where this lies.
Reid is nothing. Figuratively and literally.
Bohner is effective but only to a point. He cannot pass a bill that does not cut spending. This is where Obama fails.
If you voted for the clown Obama - you got what you wanted. An extrmist who will not/cannot cut spending. But who wishes taxes to rise.
Don't blame me I voted for Romney.
P
Boehner turned it down.
How is it not Boehner's fault? They won't vote to raise taxes no matter what. There is no room for compromise. Even Boehner's Plan B got rejected out of hand by the House Republicans. They are pissing their pants about their moronic pledge to the Grover Norquist deity. So they take the coward's way out and let tax cuts expire so that they can vote to cut them. They are such immature children - thats really all there is to it.
Thank God your vote for Romney didn't get that guy elected. I bet you voted for W twice too. I've voted for the better man 4 times in a row and history has been overwhelmingly on my side.
In case you're confused it was Gore, Kerry (like an adult vs a high school boy) and then Obama over McCain (and his ditsy sidekick) and of course Obama over Romney.
Nothing like an honest, concerned, reasonable, intelligent family man as president to scare the crap out of the lunatic fringe.
Its still Christmas, so I will give you a pass on Bush the first time around (vs Gore).
Obama be like "Would I lie?"
Well the 10 for 1 trade in 2011 is an often-repeated summary of where things stood in 2011, but since you asked, I figured I'd go try to figure out where that number came from.
In general there was an attempt at a grand bargain of $4 trillion in deficit reduction which included $1.2 trillion in revenues. The cuts would come from Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security and military spending. The revenues would consist of $800 billion in elimination of tax loopholes and $400 billion in tax rate increases.
That leaves you with $4 trillion in deficit reduction versus $400 billion in tax rate increases, or a 10-1 trade between deficit reduction and higher tax rates. Yes it ignores the elimination of unidentified loopholes... so I can't really say how much that would affect the average taxpayer.
At one point it seems Obama was considering $1.65 billion in spending cuts in exchange only for the elimination of $1.2 billion in tax loopholes, but no increase in the tax rates.
The New York Times summarized the failed deal as $3 trillion in spending cuts versus $1 trillion in revenue increases, but it doesn't say how much of the revenue was from closing of loopholes and how much was from higher tax rates. If we use $400 billion in higher tax rates, thats a 7.5 to 1 trade in spending cuts versus higher tax rates
Regardless, my assertion of "10 to 1 between spending cuts and tax increases" should have been "$10 of deficit reduction for every $1 in higher tax rates."
http://bit.ly/Ymgrmu
The only thing that matters is what both sides are willing to compromise on now. I don't think Obama's current offer is 10-1 (I could be wrong, it probably depends on your point of view). That being said the Republicans could offer a little more too...
One thing that is difficult for the Repubs to live down is that primary campaign debate (if I'm remembering this correctly) where the question was asked if any of the Republican presidential candidates would support a deal in which $3 of spending cuts was matched by $1 in higher taxes. Nobody would agree to the hypothetical deal and I think they all also passed on a 10 for 1 trade.
Boehner said yesterday that the middle class had too many loopholes and the rich were the ones paying too much. 2014 another defeat of the t bags.
its unfortunate but the extremes on both sides are escalating like and arms race the more one side pushes the more the other side pulls.
Hey DETTO, what happen to your equality? Were did your fairness go? BOCO and the Demcos protect the likes of Gates, Buffet, and the Soros Brothers...
The American people are being held hostage by the Tea Party and Republican conservatives. Increasing spending on defense, unwilling to discuss gun control after Newton, won't even consider raising taxes on even those making 1M a year. One Tea Party member even said "Let's go over the cliff and see what happens", these yahoo's have to go and the sooner the better.
The USA is so broke!
Don't believe me?
Take the time to read the Trustees Report on Social Security and Medicare.
We are down a WHOLE 0.5% across the board! (3PM EST)
Wait? 0.5%? Shouldn't that be more?
...
This is a very slow sinking Titanic.
Boehner and Obama cannot agree to a compromise bill
Obama wants no spending cuts despite getting Boehner to agree to tax hikes. Check the tape. The tax cuts are real the spending cuts are promises.
Boehner said he will introduce "Plan B" into the congress. Reid says that bill will not come tothe Senate and Obama says he will veto it. "Plan B" does not come to the House. Check the tape. This is what Obama and Reid actually said. Is that compromise?
Boehner says it is up to Obama and Reid to figure something out. Whatever the Senate passes he will bring to the House. Check the tape. This is what he really said. Is that "my way or the highway"?
Reid and Obama cannot get anything done. Why? They are in the same party. They have the majority in the Senate. Why can they not bring a bill to the Senate that Obama says he will sign if it passes. This is inexplicable unless... Why? Isn't the truth obvious?
Now we have Charlie Brown Boehner calling the House back on Sunday. That's funny. Watch what Lucy Reid and Obama do in response.
If you read this string - and these are the facts you can only get to one conclusion. There is no interest in a deal on the Democratic side. I have done enough negotiations to understand this. In good faith the Dems should put forth their alternative plan - what is it? Does anyone really know? Reid and Obama together. They will not. They cannot.
Don't Blame Me I voted for Romney
P