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House Republicans - including House Majority Leader Eric Cantor - are reportedly overwhelmingly...
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Tuesday, January 1, 4:31 PM ETHouse Republicans - including House Majority Leader Eric Cantor - are reportedly overwhelmingly opposed to the fiscal cliff deal approved by the Senate. The House appears poised to amend the deal and send it back to the Senate, setting up a legislative high-wire act.
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...let the canoe go over the Reichenbach Falls....
The Community Organizer is fascintated with Indonesian politics and, after that, he'll annouce some kind of half-backside U.N. agglomeration that will bestow authority...(leading from behind) on an internationalist mess that will require the American Army to lead the Egyptians towards Mecca. After that we can at last get on with the trial of Kahlid Sheik Mohammed.
Ms.Rodham/Clinton: You can't keep the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy at bay forever.
You see, you are the choice of the Establishment Media, The Next Big Thing, so...you can't languish on them...
As for us, well, we'll get on as best as we can.
Give me back my Government!!
Even those of us in the Fascist Far-Far (and "Neo") Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy assume the octogenarians, the Hillary Clintons and the Kerry Ketchups can't go on forever.
Thinking ahead, can we lead from behind forever?
A new Congress is sworn in at noon Thursday, and will likely have to start all over again on this in House and Senate.
Let's make sure none of their family and friends shorted the market for tomorrow!
everyingone sees through this BS...
...except NBC, ABC, CBS or Big Bird...
"The bottom line is that the Tea Baggers want to go over the cliff ..."
No. The bottom line is that the Tea Partiers want to be left alone--they don't wan't to have the EPA investigate everytime they pass wind.
Those obsessing over the cliff are Hoping for Change.
(Speaking for the Tea Partiers)
There must be more to life except Hope and Change and then
Forward!
ha ha ha ... good one
God, if there is a God, please have the House Republicans continue this BS for another 2 years.
Anyone who is not with us is against us.
Be thankful there is a constitution which prevents liberals in the big cities from dictating to the rest of America.
And really the 47% don't vote in mid-terms. So we will probably get 4 more years of this nonsense.
18.
I believe that the American people may be crazy, but they are not dumb.
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
Fear-mongering, Paul Krugman style.
Surely you can do better....
Eventually I would think (or hope) we could get government spending under control. It's pretty simple.... we can't continue to out spend the money we take in.
Welcome to 2009 again.
http://cnnmon.ie/U644yX
Ζήτω για λιτότητα!
When you put your after tax capital at risk, you should not be paying the same rate on your capital gains. In fact, the government should allow one to deduct all of one's capital losses against earned income instead of the paltry $3,000 limit that seems to have been in place for ever.
Or is no one wealthy in the USA?
Good riddance to them - let Obama and the liberal statists own this disaster of a fiscal plan. I'd vote no on any plan that increases revenue to Washington.
We are approaching the end of this debt super cycle. We cannot grow our way out. The politicians know this and are playing to their constituencies. There is no fix which is why the Fed is printing. Invest accordingly.
Thank you. Exactly.
Huh?
That's Greece today...
The "investor" class won't have a problem no matter which way the cookie crumbles...
Spending cuts???
Monday was a bull trap of the foolish.
Because a bunch of Liberal commentators on this board say so ?
Do Liberals get rid of Barney Frank , Maxine Waters or Charley Rangel when the dems pass idiotic bills ? NO
Why would republican voters change ? THEY ON"T
They didn't do so 2 months ago , after all the prognosticators said they would after summer of 2011 budget calamity
This is a cake walk compared to that
Nothing will change in Congress in 2014
the house will earn zero points with the american public by raising everyone's taxes then sending a far-fetched proposal back to the senate... hate to be sound like a broken record on this thread, but this is the death of the republican party if they don't get their act together.
everyone in america can see that Obama is being reasonable and trying to compromise. it's time the house wakes up.
How dare them? After all, they were elected...to save children...and babies...and...(can't go there)...
Are we or are we not all Keynesians Now? Does the dry-erase board in Boston mean nothing?
The situation loomed as a significant test for Mr. Boehner, who had been unable to pass his own proposal to increase taxes only on $1 million in income and above. He has said repeatedly that he would allow a vote on the Senate bill, but he has also said he did not want to pass a bill with predominantly Democratic votes. Public opposition from Mr. Cantor, who has up to this point sided with Mr. Boehner in the fiscal fight, would also complicate his position.
Period
But I respectfully disagree.
Unfortunately, yes. It turns out that we’re a pugilistic people by nature, and when you put money into the mix, things just escalate like a Gambino family reunion. The last time that we had a full-on, real-life federal budget that was signed into law, it was 1997. Bill Clinton was president, and Newt Gingrich was speaker of the House (and only on his second wife).
If you owe someone 16 Trillion you want to pay it back at the lowest rate possible, right ?
Do you think they will pay themselves back? Maybe, maybe not.
The goal is trade in the debt to manage the monetary base, it is not meant as a loan. If the Fed burns up the Treasuries the only challenge would be that if inflation hits the Feds will have less ammunition to soak up the extra currency on the long end. So I don't think Bernanke will use this bullet up.
But it is theoretically possible.
"Cantor was instrumental in Boehner's Plan B plan getting defeated."
thus the shive has been sharpened
Honestly this is sad, but almost comical....
No pain, no gain.
You can survive on a credit card for a while. Paybacks are hell though. Our debt is dangerously high. Running it up more will just make it much worse.
It's like asking whether you want to take 5 licks from a switch now, or whether you want to be whipped until you are raw and bleeding with a cat of nine tails later. It's tough, and most don't like to hear about tough choices. But I think that's the situation we face.
god, if there is a god ...
I think you are missing their angle here. They get to let the tax increases go through (by doing nothing) and then lowering taxes significantly by simply accepting the same deal being offered a few days from now. The sad truth is that most Americans are dumb enough to fall for it. The House is not going to vote for a tax increase. They will, however, vote for a cut in taxes even though they are the exact same deal. Yes...we have reached a new low.
A vote on either an amended version of the bill, which would add a package of spending cuts, or an up or down vote is likely to occur on Tuesday night, according to a GOP source. The source said House Speaker John Boehner presented those two options to his members.
If the GOP is able to get a commitment of 218 votes on the amendment, then House Republicans will bring it to the floor for a vote, the source said. If the GOP is not able to secure those votes, it will bring up the Senate-passed measure for an up or down vote in the House, the source said.
Tea Party Patriots must really love to humiliate themselves.
When is that? February? Can't wait.
Think again.
Have I been wrong on this fiscal cliff nonsense yet John? I called every single step. So trust me, in February there will be some token spending cuts but the military will have to bear most of the brunt of it. Entitlements won't be cut as much as the Tea Party Patriots want them cut.
There will be NO cuts
No pain from government cuts here.
The CBO places the impact at $3.9Trillion more debt. For a "Macro Investor" you don't have much of a sense in macro economics.
I did forget about the payroll tax increase.
So Mike, will you be hurt in any way from entitlement cuts?
As a retiree I probably would be hurt by entitlement cuts, but before those cuts I would expect a clean out of waste and simplified tax policies, which both Dems and Reps won't do.
I give this offer to anyone who says that they are not going to get anything from Social Security. Strangely, no one takes me up on the offer. Thing is, they all know that actually they will get SS. They are just repeating soundbites they hard on right wing radio.
So, Mike, you will be hurt by entitlement cuts but you still want entitlements to be cut. Why is that?
Be careful that you don't lose your mind in the left wing talking points.
It does seem though that your temporal logic concerning government spending is short.
I am not sure what left wing talking points you are referring to. I just want to make as much money as I can, and right wing politics is horrible for the economy and the market. If the conservatives start to worry less about the moochers and more about people like me who just want to get rich then I might consider voting for them. I would rather earn more and pay more in taxes.
Well, conservatives will also have to become socially liberal. No way am I going to let a religious person dictate my actions. Separation of state and church baby!
Rightwing politics of less regulations and less government is typically good for the economy, ups and downs are natural and overall I can tell you the last four years for most Americans have been horrible. Although I'm glad you're doing good.
As far as social issues go - I don't care - this is about investing, if you want to talk guns and god you probably need another forum.
New more demanding EPA regulations that I run into generally cost my company over $1M to comply on new projects. I'm also sure that you have heard of the coal industry and the regulatory burden placed on them - and you probably also heard of the Keystone pipeline and the delays government regulations caused, and I assume you have heard of the regulations for auto manufacturers.....
Everyone wants a clean water and air, but stupid regulations without a practical means to mitigate them are just bad.
Housing wasn't "deregulated", banks were giving away money - some contend because the government made them. Bubbles burst all the time, but bad Monetary policy and bad Fiscal policy coupled with too many regs will take alot time to work through.
Do you remember this bill? The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act?
It is fairly well established that this was one of the main drivers of the financial crisis. It is established beyond doubt that the last 4 years slowdown was because of the financial crisis.
The bubble was formed under Bush and burst under Bush causing the financial crisis. The fiscal and monetary policy since then has helped recover the country. When someone has cancer, it is not the doctor who is responsible for the slow recovery. It is the abuse the body took beforehand.
I know that no businessperson likes regulations. They are not supposed to like it. It is there to keep them in check so that consumers like me are protected. I will tell you this - while I joke around on this forums all the time, this is one place where there is no joking around. I know that regulations protect me, the consumer. I know that businesses do not in any way have my interest in mind. They would rather pollute the environment, make super risky bets with other people's money, and try to pay workers bottom dollars. Not their fault, they are human too.
But that's why regulation is needed to keep them in check.
I always like these kind of statements "beyond doubt" attached to a timeframe (like "4 years"), because they are subjective. I believe the financial crisis started the recession but the actions to get us out (and still get us out) has been counter productive in almost every respect.
And of course I like some regulations but regulations that are put in place by politicians and political appointees are dangerous, whether dem or rep. Another example - are you a big Global Warming supporter ? Would you pay money to breathe if a government regulation said your carbon footprint was X based on your size ?
I think the actions have not all been good. The monetary actions have been superlative. The fiscal decisions were not enough. We needed a MASSIVE public works program and we did not do that. But we did many right things, like the bailouts of the finance institutions on which the US Govt made money and stabilized the market in the process. We did take care of our fellow citizens through unemployment insurance and didn't throw them on the street. We have a lot to be proud of.
I don't doubt we needed a MASSIVE public works program - high speed rail was a good notion I thought or natural gas transportation infrastructure, but they blew it - and we got ObamaCare.
We took care of alot of folks - which is good, but we got to ease back and do more to support growth - it's not simple politics - it requires coordination.
Pick one - you can't have both.
Mike, the USA always had a Govt. teddy Roosevelt was trust busting a century back. USA always grew. This nonsense about growth going away unless businesses are allowed to run rampant without any rules is so much nonsense and history proves it.
You know that you have higher degree of spending flexibility when unemployment is low and income into the treasury is high.
No one is against social programs and regulations - it's just a matter of timing. You don't tax and spend when growth is low.
Love this:
http://bit.ly/VCDclh
There is no harm is slowing regulations and spending - not talking of stopping or cutting.
Then when times are good we can have better social services and improved infrastructure which supports cleaner air and water - ie more spending.
I'm not middle class , so you'll need more input to answer your question
I will take what the market gives and bob and weave my way as I always have.
Think this will ever be explained to their constituents? Of course NOT!!
Think George Bush will ever come out to explain how he and his cronies set up this hell? Of course NOT!!!
I mean , even some democrats can use a calculator
It was a good day. I can't wait to see how they rope the dope into spending cuts.
The dems look pretty conservative to me.
I believe the GOP will get the spending cuts it wants - but hopefully it will appear that the dems win....
It's really like a sports team, you rout for your team but it really doesn't matter who wins.
The Rep are just as bad but the whole ObamaCare fiasco set me on edge when I thought they had bigger fish to fry.
Like I said before the dems let a fantastic opportunity slip away - it will never come back in my lifetime, and opted for ObamaCare. I believe the Reps are the best chance for something that will be positively disruptive - hence vote Rep for awhile.
You prefer the new normal of high unemployment and increasing debt I suppose?
What opportunity are you talking about?
I prefer a society where the poor are not thought of as scums. I prefer a society where the poor are helped.
The opportunity the dems let slip away is the ability to do a real and lasting infrastructure project that only the Feds can do.... like going to the moon, or building a Natural Gas infrastructure, or..... but we got ObamaCare. yippy.
I prefer the same society - unfortunately the past 4 years have been the worst on the poorest - they can't find jobs, and now they have their taxes raise by a higher percentage than the rich, based on the bill the dems fought so hard for.... go democrats (really?)
I think ObamaCare is something we can all be proud of. Why are you not proud of that?
You do know that it was the Repubs who pushed for raising the payroll taxes, right? Nice attempt to put it on the Dems though.
I like how you spin.
You are proud of ObamaCare - you sir would be the first, besides Joe Biden and Nancy. I think you are lying, and no I'm not proud of that.
Repubs tried first to kill deductions (which the rich use and the poor generally do not) to raise revenue. But Obama wanted the political victory of raising tax RATES on the rich, so the negotiations by and large circled just on what is "rich". Rich is now $400K I guess. The dems totally ignored the payroll tax..... which hits the low income the hardest.
No spin just facts...
Why are you not proud of ObamaCare? Seriously.
Were you in the negotiations room? How do you know that Dems totally ignored the payroll tax?
$400k is not rich? It's, like, what? Top 2% of Americans? Damn! America doesn't even have 2% rich people. I wonder how poorr countries are doing. Perhaps no one is rich these days, everyone is middle class, eh?
Why are you proud of ObamaCare? So you think of all the projects the government could of done ObamaCare was the best choice?
Payroll tax will go up on everyone.... The dems "won" the fight remember? Obama did the "victory lap". They either ignored it or forgot about it - you choose.
You are right - since $400K is now the new rich we don't have 2% rich people anymore I suppose. And btw 2012 was the best year ever for the world, poorer countries had their standard living lifted more than any other year... we are evening out.
ObamaCare takes care of the middle class so they don't go poor.
So you still think ObamaCare was the best choice out of all the government options to spend money to get us out of a recession?
I leave with that MI - headin to bed
Of course not, unless it wasted resources while not helping anyone.
And I was answering question above and never mentioned money. I think you are whipped bro. Go and reload and talk to me when you have an argument you can win.
my point precisely.
I don't think I implied that anywhere... unless you are thinking that since you want ObamaCare to help only the rich and same have the same benefits as the poor - even thought they don't need it. I don't believe that.
My crystal ball isn't that clear. My assumption is that Obama will go down worse than Hoover for performance in a downturn, who I think took advantage of the economic downturn with some great infrastructure projects. FDR made it worse (like Obama) and it req a war to bring us out. So your perception is of what is, mine is of what could of been.
So even though I think the dems heart might be in right place, their execution was sloppy and wasteful.... and I think you have to agree that they should have spent more on legacy infrastructure projects and less on time a bureaucratic behemoth that probably helps the insurance companies and trial lawyers more than doctors and patients..
All in all your approach to issues generally seems to be one sided rather than balanced, while both sides of every argument has it's merits you only see one of them. (Spin / perception works both ways)
Anyway good luck (skills) making money.
Go back and re-read the posts. I know you have the tendency to look only through one lens but try to open your mind... you have alot of tenacity but I fear not alot of depth.