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A little more on Deutsche/Apple: The firm notes Japanese analyst Yasuo Nakane has long been...

  • Friday, January 4, 2:45 PM ET
    A little more on Deutsche/Apple: The firm notes Japanese analyst Yasuo Nakane has long been cautious about FQ2 (March quarter) iPhone builds, and thinks the consensus for FQ2 iPhone sales has fallen to around 37M. The U.S. team thinks Nakane's estimates (45M builds in FQ1, 28M-30M in FQ2) implies upside to his FQ1 sales forecast, and downside to his FQ2 forecast. Meanwhile, his forecast for 17M-19M FQ2 iPad builds implies upside to an FQ2 forecast for sales of 15M.
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This news story has 46 comments:

  • So, why would Foxconn keep the production lines open during Chinese New Year if they are dropping production 30%? Doesn't add up. The analysts had this exact same debate last year, citing decreased supplier orders for the 4S! Then Apple surprised everybody.
    4 Jan, 02:57 PM Reply Like
  • I agree. Also, with initial reported supplier contraints due to lack of supplies in the supply chain earlier on would suggest Apple would respond by either changing or more likely adding new suppliers. The suppliers that the Japanese analyst checked did not include those new suppliers since Apple doesn't reveal that now.
    4 Jan, 04:43 PM Reply Like
  • Agree with you.
    AAPL will be up in 2013 and AAPL current level is a good entry point.
    5 Jan, 07:03 AM Reply Like
  • This has to be the easiest stock to trade in existence. People on wall street spread rumors about declining sales giving reasons that don't quite stand up to scrutiny, but are just believable enough to send the stock down. Apple reveals its earnings, prices go back up. rinse, repeat. I'm not the conspiracy theory type but its hard to believe that there isn't a little tinkering going on to make the stock price more attractive for the smart money. Or maybe people are just prone to mass fits of irrational behavior, im not an expert.
    6 Jan, 01:29 AM Reply Like
  • I think better off reading tea leaves than predicting what Apple will do. Why has the market come to this nonsense? What happened to looking at a company's performance instead of these ridiculous analyst expectations?
    4 Jan, 03:12 PM Reply Like
  • U r right.
    Why should we listen to an analyst guesses/conclusions based on some rumors he may have heard or some infos he may have had which could be partially true or totally false ? No one knows.
    Why do we think that these analysts have the clue & know what they are talking about ?
    Why dont we think that these analysts have some interest in orienting their comments ?
    After all, aren't they concerned by stock's price one way or another ?
    4 Jan, 03:24 PM Reply Like
  • Could not agree more!

    One of the hosts of Bloomberg West (Cory Johnson) gave a mocking take on Apple analysts a couple of weeks ago where he pointed out that most of them are merely looking in their car rear view mirror.

    When the stock is rising fast they look back and take note and start giving Apple price targets of £900 - £1,000 a share.

    Conversely, when the stock is crashing they look into their mirror take note of the fall and start lowering their price target to $550 - $750!

    In other words they are not leading the market but following it. The best advice I can give is to buy Apple shares when Analysts are downgrading the stock (ie. now) and sell Apple shares when analysts are raising it to the stars (ie. late September 2012).

    I have owned Apple shares since 2003 and I know from past experience that this company will beat big time come January 23. It really would not surprise me to see the stock hit $800 come late Spring.
    5 Jan, 06:09 AM Reply Like
  • And why listen to these "pros" when:
    A. They are personally broke
    B. They consistently under-perform the major averages year after year after year
    And
    C. They have been 100% wrong about apple for 10 years or more!
    6 Jan, 06:58 AM Reply Like
  • That's why they sit at their sorry desks, supervising a bunch of "junior" analysts (i.e., university grads who wouldn't know how to analyze a company if it hit them in the head), and looking into their crystal balls, rather than enjoying life on a beach somewhere and savoring their brilliant calls.
    7 Jan, 08:29 AM Reply Like
  • Old Chinese Proverb say: AAPL leads by example critics have nothing to talk about, wait til January 23 and let's see who is talking then. In the mean time buy while it's low!
    4 Jan, 03:24 PM Reply Like
  • As I commented before, I read more or less the same things when AAPL traded at $100, $200, $300, $400, $500, $600 and $700.
    I took my plunge at $250 and had never regretted it. I look at AAPL's balance sheet, cash flow and P & L and compare it to the other big techs. I simply couldn't find a better deal to put my money in in the short and the medium term. Longer than 5 years, no one knows except the Man upstairs.
    4 Jan, 04:10 PM Reply Like
  • agree syjcca -- at some point apple will mature and stop growing fast but it is unlikely that that point is now -- or next year or the year after. aapl should be at around 1100 -- apple, our best of breed company, should have a peg of 1.2 or thereabouts. instead of around .5. It is really that simple.

    When apple will return to a peg of > 1 is anybodies guess.
    4 Jan, 05:05 PM Reply Like
  • @ syjcca and others bullish and bearish on AAPL. I began collecting AAPL shares at $167 and never looked back, ready to buy again. I consider it my retirement hedge! All the brokers have told me that it is a very aggressive investment loaded with downside, let 'em weep now and forever more!
    7 Jan, 01:28 PM Reply Like
  • Just short apple, you will sleep better and make money. All analysts are against , they will twist the facts to take it down.
    4 Jan, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • You may well be right: there's trading and then there's investing, in the near term anyway trading seems to be the approach of choice.
    4 Jan, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • It depends how you short it & how accurate are/have been your shorting forecasts.
    But I would rather prefer to listen to CEO Tim Cook & dont bet against Apple. At least not with a shorting target after the 23rd january's result release.
    5 Jan, 07:51 AM Reply Like
  • Analysts have agendas they do not reveal publically. There are some that think the so called Chinese firewalls between investment arms and the analyst community in the various companies work. There are some who still believe that various firms do not work together to achieve certain aims. Take a look at the discussion of Susquehanna in these two links:

    http://stks.co/kHbg

    http://bit.ly/Zm7T4v

    Note that Susquehanna Financial Group mentioned in the first article is a part of Susquehanna International Group and published one of the famous supply chain stories several weeks ago. The second link published more recently says Apple is now 21.4% of assets Susquehanna International Group, up 50% in the qtr.

    Sounds like stock manipulation to me

    Here is another example that appeared in the same Barron's tech blog earlier on.

    http://bit.ly/Zm8FON
    4 Jan, 06:20 PM Reply Like
  • Should one reread that article wherein it states "seemed to have"

    you should get a nice warm cuddly feeling in your self that the writer really has a firm grasp of his understanding of his research, eh?

    Plain old fashioned B.S.
    4 Jan, 10:26 PM Reply Like
  • Why are there no Google bears out there..........strange...
    4 Jan, 06:31 PM Reply Like
  • That's because GOOG main business is not hardware, therefore not everyone can pull out random numbers for # of units sold. It's much more difficult to do their "supply" checks.
    4 Jan, 09:02 PM Reply Like
  • Google got totally bearded out after its dismal quarterly per leaked announcement....it is a screaming buy now
    5 Jan, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • Not entirely accurate as the android operating system in sold smart phones can be estimated....
    5 Jan, 08:15 AM Reply Like
  • And how exactly does the number of andriod OS in sold smart phones affect google? From what i've read, GOOG doesn't really make anything significant (if anything) off of Andriod yet. I believe GOOG valuation currently is based more on potential than actual results for Andriod.
    5 Jan, 08:29 AM Reply Like
  • Apple unfortunately in the short term is a day trading stock, things should settle down after earnings. Fundamentals will win out over the year, being short prior to earnings would be a tough trade so longs should be in good shape.
    4 Jan, 07:21 PM Reply Like
  • Of course you're kidding; the short list will ease prior to earnings report of 01-23-2013?? and then increase a couple of weeks latter..
    4 Jan, 10:28 PM Reply Like
  • Hedge your bet and ride the wave up and down....
    5 Jan, 08:13 AM Reply Like
  • @ thesuer, and back up just before, during and after 1/23!
    7 Jan, 01:32 PM Reply Like
  • Analysts were responsible for the Internet bubble of the late 90s, pumping prices of companies without real income and the docom as it only asset. Markets crashed then. I see in the Apple bashing the same irrational exuberance, this time negative or reverse.
    On the other hand, Amazon continue to be priced at real exuberant price and Samsung and Google problems are left out any serious analysis what it mean for Samsung users their non Android phones future phones?
    4 Jan, 07:32 PM Reply Like
  • Have you really followed AAPL long jpintoctr? Your arguments really are nonsensical, given the historical valuations of AAPL.
    7 Jan, 01:34 PM Reply Like
  • The problem for Apple is that it likes to keep everything secretive. This creates room for the analyst to do all kinds of guess work, which in turn, makes the stock very manipulative. If Apple can be a little more transparent, there will be no room for the analysts to do wild guess, therefore the stock should be more stable going up due to Apple's strong fundamentals.
    4 Jan, 08:03 PM Reply Like
  • very right
    5 Jan, 08:21 AM Reply Like
  • Upside to Q1 and downside to Q2, eh? So, net-net we are talking, give or take... give me a minute here... zero change!

    And the upside is supposedly in the nearer quarter, leading to higher net present value of those earnings, yes?

    Gee, "long been cautious" and "consensus... has fallen" sure are interesting ways of characterizing that *startling* new information.

    Perhaps the 'caution' was more a function of the iPad upside, and the whiplash anyone trying to follow the tablet growth chart upward would experience.
    4 Jan, 10:44 PM Reply Like
  • I've been following Apple for 8 years and have never heard of Yasuo Nakane. I'm not surprised this came out on options experation Friday. Especially after Aapl opened the week at 509. Seems like some big firms had wrote call options and didnt want aapl closing the week over 540. What I don't get is who the huge fund sellers are dumping apple based on this "analyst" projection. Since when is someones guess reported by the media as fact? Here report this as fact on Monday.. I think aapl will sell 60 million iPhones in Q2. There, that should bring back the 20B+ in market cap thats been manipulated out of aapl today.
    5 Jan, 12:45 AM Reply Like
  • Buy Nokia! The Future poor Mans phone. Talking market Share Apple is loosing market share in the premium market to android aka google, buy google. Simply put apple is awesome I have made money but still lost on going long long apple and now think it is clearly undervalued but we need a huge catalyst for an upwards rally. Have built a position buying upto 500 usd, prey that it does not break through 500 because then it will be misery upto 415-485 and locked up capital. Hopefully q1 results 54 billion beat should do the trick......otherwise in the interim period loading up on Nokia and google to offset apple losses. Best of luck fellow apple investors in the end 600 minimum target should be reached to take profit.
    5 Jan, 08:11 AM Reply Like
  • GOOG is trading at over 23 PE... Looking pretty expensive to me.

    What huge profit drivers do you see for them in the near future? The consumer market is substantially moving in the direction of mobile, and Apple is succeeding in the US. Seems to me Google will struggle to command the same advertising revenue that Apple will command going forward. Apple users are more affluent and spend more.

    Google already dominates the US search market, and can only go down from here. Google is unlikely to grow much in China, where a homegrown company (BIDU) will flourish.

    In the absence of a driverless car revolution, GOOG looks like it will struggle going forward. Maybe they'll pull a rabbit out of their hat, but I wouldn't invest based on that.

    Good luck
    5 Jan, 11:18 AM Reply Like
  • Apple innovated the smart phone and leveraged the MP3 format. These are now legacy items which will be replaced with something new. As an Apple investor, one can only hope Apple is at the forefront of whatever new is.
    5 Jan, 09:03 AM Reply Like
  • Just some more Weege Board predictions. It amazes me how some of these so called analysts come up with their predictions with few or no real facts. The big surprise is that rarely when they are wrong do they apologize and explain why they were wrong. They just go ahead and do the same dumb things again. However, the bigger surprise is that people keep paying them the big bucks.
    5 Jan, 10:57 AM Reply Like
  • Reading these comments reinforces my short position. Thanks! Listen to price folks. Watch the 500 level. We may not break it but a retest sure looks likely!
    5 Jan, 11:18 AM Reply Like
  • I'm hoping as an Apple consumer & share holder that they come out with iPhone screen size options.
    My guess is a good earnings report on Jan 23rd & conservative guidance for next 1/4.
    5 Jan, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • Keep in mind that it was "reported" that there was one person seen in the Chinese Apple Store when the iPhone5 went on sale. This report sent the stock price down.

    When the dust cleared and the lone buyer backed up his truck, over 2M iPhone5's were sold over the first weekend.

    Beware of "news." Be aware.
    5 Jan, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • Welcome to the Internet. The best of times and the worst of times for information distribution. Old-time journalism may have been biased, but what poses as journalism today -- i.e., press releases and blogs and, for that matter, many SA articles -- is laughable.
    7 Jan, 08:33 AM Reply Like
  • I just don't understand why analysts and the street are preparing for Apple's funeral. They have already began digging and are prepping the casket.

    Apple isn't anywhere close to done in terms of product innovation. As soon as the Apple TV hits, the stock is headed for the moon. You won't hear them talking about margin compression after that. Everyone will want one. Margins drop a percent or two and the street freaks out. Ha. What did they expect? Margin expansion all the way up to 50%? 60%?
    5 Jan, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • Agreed. The talking heads on tv care way too much about margins and market share. They're happier with amzn making no money and taking a little market share from apple than they are with apple making $50B+ a year. Why be impressed with market share if there is no profit. Even a 10 yr old realizes profit and growth is what matters. Apple has this in abundance. One day they will wake up and see the light.
    5 Jan, 08:51 PM Reply Like
  • Hearkening back to Mark Twain, "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated. What might be more apropos in terms of AAPL; I'll risk forty dollars that he can outjump any frog in Calaveras county.
    7 Jan, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • Each of those people bought 1,000,000 iPhones

    Unless things get really crazy 500-550 should be the range until earnings.
    6 Jan, 01:38 AM Reply Like
  • @ arothman, I think you are fairly accurate in your assessment, however, AAPL generally gets a spike of interest just a couple of days previous to the release of earnings, which could put it close to 600. Then????? I think that the earnings report will blow away projections. The main reasons that the company didn't hit projections the previous quarters was the imminent release of new products.
    7 Jan, 01:50 PM Reply Like
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