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Automobiles with turbocharged engines are blasted by Consumer Reports for not living up to their...

  • Tuesday, February 5, 7:08 AM ET
    Automobiles with turbocharged engines are blasted by Consumer Reports for not living up to their expectations. Engineers found in detailed testing that the performance results from turbocharged four-cylinder vehicles underperformed on power and fuel economy. The development is important with close to 3M vehicles with turbocharged engines slated to be sold from automakers this year at elevated prices, including models from General Motors (GM), Ford (F), and Hyundai (HYLMF.PK)
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This news story has 24 comments:

  • Nice job by Consumer reports, but if what they report is substantiated, then what government agency is responsible for monitoring claims made by the auto industry? Do they just say what sounds good and helps sales and that is that? What about false advertising? Do we as consumers need to rely on a magazine to protect our interests? Something does'nt smell right.
    5 Feb, 07:19 AM Reply Like
  • Well, that is certainly Consumer Reports' goal - to "protect" consumers from the "evil" automakers and government regulators.

    And to sell lots and lots of magazines, of course.

    The National Enquirer has nothing on Consumer Reports, when it comes to self-serving journalism and attention-grabbing headlines. The only things missing at CR are the results achieved by the Sasquatch "Finding Bigfoot" Hunters, and the Space Alien Scientists at their Area 51 test site.

    As stated, the EPA is responsible for defining the specific test procedures, and reviewing and certifying the results. Very rarely an automaker (Hyundai-Kia) gets "caught" with results from improperly conducted tests (apparently inadvertently at H-K). And very-very rarely do automakers get caught deliberately falsifying and/or tailoring the data and methods to achieve a competitive advantage.

    But that is technically what Consumer Reports is doing - quoting fuel economy results from deliberately improperly conducted tests, in order to draw attention.
    5 Feb, 07:51 AM Reply Like
  • So the only real culprit here is Consumer Reports, and the auto makers and those turbocharged four cylinder engines are performing exactly as claimed on power and fuel economy. How silly of me to doubt the auto makers. Consumer reports should make a public apology for putting out misleading information. Tdot, thanks for letting me know the truth. You have done a great service for all car owners.
    5 Feb, 09:55 AM Reply Like
  • This is the same magazine that used to give a perfect score to TOYOTA for everything, from comfort to performance, without ever testing the vehicles. So how can anyone rely on such a magazine.
    5 Feb, 10:20 AM Reply Like
  • You are most welcome.
    5 Feb, 01:47 PM Reply Like
  • Leaning on the government to determine if a car's MPG or performance advertisements are correct is a slippery slope. I think this is exactly why CR is in business, so that those concerned with getting accurate information have a source for that. Let's not go out and ask for more government regulations and/or more government agencies. Let us keep those tax dollars to ourselves so that we can spend them where we'd like and maximize our utility.
    5 Feb, 04:19 PM Reply Like
  • Justin - how about a compromise?

    Consumer Reports can and should first run independently the fuel efficiency tests exactly to EPA specifications, or hire a lab to do so if they are unable due to the complexity, and see if they get a match with the official EPA numbers.

    Then they can go ahead and run their own preferred custom tests to their internal specifications, and report those results and discuss the differences.

    This should be fair to both sides. And then they do not come across as calling the Automakers and EPA "liars" for the sake of making headlines and selling magazines. At least their credibility demands it. And society would get a second set of eyes on the data, preventing fraud and uncovering "mistakes".
    5 Feb, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • Once again, as with the Hybrids, we have Consumer Reports going off and running their own made-up tests, in direct opposition to longstanding tests done in accordance with EPA and SAE standards.

    Automakers are legally obligated to accurately report results from standardized tests, not coming up with their own customized tests to provide the best possible results for their own vehicles, and the worst possible results for the competition. That is how things worked in the 50s and 60s, when there were 100 different ways to measure and compare something as "simple" as horsepower. Needless to say, results varied, and significantly.

    Anyway to be fair, Consumer Reports is using a simple but long-discarded, old school method for measuring highway mpg - a cold engine at 65 mph for several minutes. This in direct contrast with the EPA regulated method for measuring real-world highway mpg - which includes standardized freeway ramp accelerations and decelerations, significant speed variations up and down with traffic, fast and slow traffic merging style accelerations, and so forth.

    It all comes down to how you drive. Hypermilers can easily beat the EPA fuel economy estimates, often by 10-20%, simply by driving the car less agressively. On the other hand, less skilled and lead footed drivers can just as easily get half the mpg quoted.

    All that said, in the light of CR's findings, it may well make sense for the EPA to go back and rework the EPA fuel economy drive cycles to include the sort of driving that CR tests. Of course then they would also have to look and see how Motor Trend does it, and Road & Track, and Car & Driver, and AutoWeek, and the Europeans regulators, etc., etc., etc....
    5 Feb, 07:33 AM Reply Like
  • Curious if there is any truth to the rumor that tests were run on the ethanol crap the government forces us to buy vs "pure" gasoline?
    5 Feb, 07:43 PM Reply Like
  • there there boys and girls, it all comes down to the way you drive. like with pinto wagons, if you insist on being rear ended, it will probably explode.

    it's not the automakers keeping performance data or reports of explosions to themselves. oh no!

    it's people's fault. or obama's. or the fed's. certainly not the automakers whose blindness drove them into bankruptcy, and whose corrupt lawmaker employees did everything they could to help them kill their corps.

    the fact is automakers have to move iron and there is only so much money for new cars in the new normal of most people not having any money.

    and so whether it's 3-d for tv's or turbos for cars, it doesn't matter if it works, it only matters if it sells.
    5 Feb, 07:42 AM Reply Like
  • It's all about CAFE. When the government mandates CAFE -- with stiff penalties who don't meet it -- and determines the testing procedures, real world experiences are secondary.

    Ford has been the biggest winner in my opinion with pushing turbos and have done a great job of marketing it in their trucks. They advertise that it can tow 11,5000 lbs. -- and I'm sure it can -- but I doubt that if it's the engine of choice for anyone with a trailer that size. I think that long term durability is still questionable in applications like this. Sure makes great marketing though!!!

    It's also interesting that GM didn't use this technology for their new trucks coming out this year. Instead, they went for upgrading traditional powertrains with all the new features like direct injection and cylinder deactivation. I am looking forward to driving the new base V6. It looks like they will finally have a base engine that will satisfy most driver's needs and people won't have to spend the money to upgrade to a V8 or turbo V6.
    5 Feb, 08:21 AM Reply Like
  • The Europeans have been building turbocharged engines for years, as well as diesel, and I can tell you, these technologies require some bit of common sense on the part of the consumer. For example, you don't run a turbo engine hard and then immediately shut it off. The hot turbo will cook the oil and create sludge. The American consumer is still rather "dumb" when it comes to their driving habits, at least compared to Europeans. Over there, it is not so easy to get a license, and the average motorist understands stuff like pulling over to allow passing when you are flashed. I drive a Audi/Passat turbo platform and many things are annoying and potentially expensive, if you drive like a typical American. However, the turbo technology works, it allows a much smaller four cylinder to run strong like a thirstier V6. Maybe not as smooth, maybe not as trouble free. But way more efficient.
    5 Feb, 09:47 AM Reply Like
  • Now folks that's why GM did not go crazy with Ecoboost equivalent. In case you don't know, Ecoboost is simply an engine with Direct Injection with a Turbo. VW was first with this technolgy years ago, soon to follow, GM. Ford only came in the game 3 years after GM, but when they did, they gave it the name Ecoboost. VW and GM and the others did not give that technology a name. Ford has been bragging about this and many auto enthusiast knew it had potential problems. Ecoboost is pushing a small engine to it's limits , especially in a truck.... that's not good. GM never went crazy like Ford on this technology. GM's trucks will probably get even better gas mileage than the Fords on their 2014 trucks by using only Direct Injection comparing and that's comparing HP to HP. Good luck Ford, you will need it.
    5 Feb, 09:57 AM Reply Like
  • An engine is basically an air pump. Suck, squeeze, bang, blow. With modern fuel management systems, the power created is directly proportional to the amount of air ingested, and that is proportional to the amount of fuel injected. This is because air/fuel ratios are so tightly controlled. So the turbocharged engine simply allows a smaller set of pistons and crankshaft (displacement) to create the same power, using the same amount of fuel, as a larger displacement engine. Since the displacement is less, the rotating mass is less, and the losses (inertia, friction, heat, etc) are less. This is what increases efficiency. The turbo itself runs off exhaust heat, which would normally be wasted out the exhaust pipe (vs. supercharging, which drains engine power directly). So under normal driving, with little or no turbo boost, you are essentially driving a small engine. If you hit the boost, say 1 bar, you have have essentially doubled the engine displacement, still with the lower frictional and rotational losses. So instead of a 100 cubic engine (about 1.6l) you have a 200 cubic inch engine (3.2l) under boost. The engine management system is designed to make the transition as smooth and seamless as possible. But it still requires some understanding on the part of the consumer. So I agree with you, Ford will have trouble with turbo technology down the road. While the Dodge/Cummins guys swear by their turbos, it probably is still not ready for the mainstream. Most Americans lack the understanding of what they are buying, and they are simply too lazy when it comes to maintenance. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the hell out of my turbo, lol.
    5 Feb, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • There is a little more to Ford's EcoBoost than just two turbos and a direct injection system. There is an optimized electronic powertrain control system that is protected with something like 125 patents just on the ignition, fuel, and emissions controls. GM and others would have to pay Ford a significant license fee to incorporate comparable technologies in their engines.
    5 Feb, 01:46 PM Reply Like
  • The leader in auto turbo systems, beyond a doubt, is VW/Audi. I'm sure Ford had to create their own variations in order to avoid the many European patents. Or, as in the semiconductor industry, you patent as much as you can, or buy as many patents as you can, to get leverage in case you infringe on someone else. Most of it is just a game.

    FYI, there are some serious problems with dual/staged turbos as well as with direct injection. Perhaps the biggest problem with turbo technology, however, is that it requires more diligent maintenance, something the average American driver is not good it. You must use synthetic oil and change it often. Turbo engines usually require the highest octane available. The extra vacuum and mechanical devices that need periodic replacement. The higher under hood temperatures usually heat age components quicker. All the sensors, like O2, knock, temp, pressure, mass flow, etc., are more critical for proper operation. Computer adaptations are more sophisticated.

    Lack of understanding of how to drive a turbo will cause Ford some problems down the road (as it has VW/Audi). You cannot drive a turbo hard and then shut it off red hot (yes, they get that color). In the summer, turbos don't performed as well. There is some boost lag, however minimal, that takes getting use to. In short, it's not as "idiot proof" as a normally aspirated (NA) engine.

    But the bottom line, that most people don't realize, is that a turbo engine will require the same amount of fuel as a larger, NA engine, minus the reduction in the mechanical and frictional losses. So at low power levels (cruising), those reductions are significant, and mileage improves quite a bit. But at high power, it's a smaller relative difference, so that at full boost, the turbo engine making, say 200HP, is not going to be significantly better in mileage than a larger NA engine making the same 200HP.
    5 Feb, 03:26 PM Reply Like
  • Hubert, you convinced me. I plan on buying a new F-150 next year and I'll definately be looking for a V-8. Thanks for the info.
    6 Feb, 08:36 AM Reply Like
  • I know that the mileage on GM's current 5.3L V8 Vortec isn't much difference than Ford's twin turbo V6 -- I'd take a look at the new GM engines too once the trucks come out.

    The current 4.8L V8 is gone -- I think that there's so much upgrading that has gone into the base V6 -- it's an all new 4.3L V6 with direct injection and cylinder deactivation -- that they didn't need the 4.8L V8 any more. Probably for most people, they won't have to spend the extra money for a V8 or a turbo V6 which might give them a huge advantage in the marketplace.

    It will be interesting to see the new 5.3L V8 versus the competition -- I wouldn't rush out to buy the Ford V8. Toyota and Nissan have new offerings too. There's a lot of competition coming out and there's bound to be some great deals. I suspect that Ford will have to get into some deep discounting too just to keep it's market share.
    7 Feb, 09:12 AM Reply Like
  • Simply put:
    If everyone used the same test criterion the discussion would be over and CR would have no magazines to sell.
    5 Feb, 10:21 AM Reply Like
  • The EPA drive cycle is the common denominator for all manufacturers and if CR or any other magazine writers want to compare vehicles, to be fair, they should use the EPA cycles.
    If CR is unhappy with the way EPA tests, they should lobby the EPA to revise their procedures.

    CR has been an extremely biased magazine in terms of treating the domestic automakers. Personally, I stopped reading their trash years ago. Unfortunately, they still have a large membership and use tactics like this to keep themselves in the news and sell their product.

    Also, Tdot is correct in that the Ford Ecoboost system is not your father's turbo technology, and I am sure GM and others did not want to pay royalties to Ford to put it into their upcoming products. Ford has performed some extensive "public" durability and reliability tests for the Ecoboost technology and the long term outlook should be no better or worse than any similar technology.
    5 Feb, 02:27 PM Reply Like

  • If it wasn't for Consumer reports, we would all be driving the same unsafe, rust buckets of old that would last three years. Please quit trying to pull one over on us again auto manufacturers, cars are just too expensive. No one has the technology to accurately or even come close to measure correct mpg? Now comes Ford, after Hyundai's recent mpg misgivings which resulted in the latter with huge multi-million dollar settlements for incorrect mpg data. I have owned a Ford twin turbo for the past few years and NO way have I come close to the EPA MPG that was on the sticker. I tried being easy on the accelerator... Unfortunately we do not live in a downhill world.
    Thanks Consumer Reports for help keeping us informed !
    5 Feb, 03:55 PM Reply Like
  • Ron - And my results are better than EPA!

    My RWD-V8 powered car is rated at 16 mpg city, 23 mpg highway, for 18 mpg combined.

    My full year average in combined highway-city driving is 24.2 mpg - in summer months I average 26.2 mpg, while in harsh winter it drops to 22.2 mpg. I've also achieved 30 mpg stretches on the freeway at 65 mph in mild weather.

    Methinks the EPA drive cycles themselves severely penalize heavier V8 powered cars, while favoring small lightweight 4-cylinders and hybrids.

    Your mileage may vary!

    MPG are measured easily enough. It is miles driven, divided by fuel consumed in gallons.

    The onboard computers in vehicles these days measure practically every droplet sprayed through the fuel injectors, making fine adjustments as needed to maintain the necessary Air-Fuel ratio to achieve the desired performance.

    Of course they cannot account for fuel that evaporates or spills out if you leave the cap off and the fuel door hanging open, and for that which you spill on the ground at the pump, or that which overflows out the vent tube while "tamping it" or as you drive away from the station burning rubber in anger at the bill.
    5 Feb, 04:10 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah, and Subway makes footlongs that aren't 12" long, too!
    6 Feb, 02:10 AM Reply Like
  • I think both the EPA and Consumer reports test data are useful as comparison data points and nothing more. It is wise to visit many sources of test data and decide what is important to you. People should learn to perform true due diligence when researching and avoid quick and convenient Googles, etc.
    6 Feb, 02:15 AM Reply Like
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