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  • DENZA EV From Daimler Is The First Credible Threat For Tesla 7 comments
    May 5, 2014 5:18 PM | about stocks: DDAIF, TSLA

    Daimler (OTCPK:DDAIF) partnered with BYD to create the Denza, an all electric sedan available for delivery September, 2014. This is a notable development for Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) investors because the Denza offers many features of the Tesla Model E and at similar price point.

    The most important feature is the all electric range of 190-miles using 47.5 kWh lithium battery. This is quite close to the daily-use Tesla Model S range of 220 miles that maximizes battery cycles. (85 kWh battery)

    The main characteristic of the Denza that is a negative compared to Tesla is the 14-sec 0-60 acceleration. This is much slower than the Tesla Model S sub-6 second time.

    Tesla Model E will not be shipping until 2016. This gives Denza a two+year lead ahead of Model E in China. Given China will be a key market for Tesla, this will impact Tesla after 2016. In the short term, the impact on Model S sales in China is less clear. Given Denza price is less than half of Model S price in China, some buyers may opt to get the Denza as their first all electric sedan instead of Model S.

    In addition, once Denza irons out early production issues and ramps up, it will very likely arrive in ex-China markets. With its 190-mile range, it has sufficient range to alleviate day-to-day range anxiety even for U.S. drivers. The arrival of Denza in the U.S. market will open a new era of practical electric cars. This is a milestone that many Tesla investors have been looking forward to with the arrival of the Model E.

    The question that must be faced now by investors is what Tesla will do to win this battle? Can Tesla beat Denza in China? If Tesla cannot beat Denza in China, how can Tesla stay ahead anywhere else in the world?

    The story is unfolding and worth watching to discern the answers to these questions.

    References:

    Denza website (English): www.denza.com/?s=eng

    Denza China subsidy: www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/20/us-au...

    Denza charging method:insideevs.com/denza-opens-new-chapter-ev.../

    Disclosure: I am long TSLA. I wrote this article myself, and it expresses my own opinions. I am not receiving compensation for it (other than from Seeking Alpha). I have no business relationship with any company whose stock is mentioned in this article.

    Stocks: DDAIF, TSLA
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Comments (7)
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  • Andreas Hopf
    , contributor
    Comments (10255) | Send Message
     
    I believe, the German, Chinese and Japanese automakers will own the market for EVs and/or FCVs in the not so far future.

     

    Tesla is a one-hit wonder, catering to a specific americanised upper class target group ("We're off to Mars with our high priest Elon Musk"), used primarily as a show-off greenwashing 2nd or 3rd vehicle ("Hey, I am so green and so in the future"), and is selling where it is heavily subsidised by the common taxpayer ("Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Tesla Model S").
    4 Jul 2014, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • Anton Wahlman
    , contributor
    Comments (2576) | Send Message
     
    @ The Author

     

    A 47.5 kWh battery won't deliver anywhere near 190 miles on the US drive cycle, as defined by the EPA. The Toyota RAV4 EV, which uses Tesla battery/motor/etc delivers a hair over 100 miles on a 45 kWh battery. The Mercedes B-class also delivers a hair over 100 miles on a 36 kWh battery, but it's got better aerodynamics and may be 100-200 lbs lighter. There is no way the Denza would be rated at over 120 miles in the US, probably somewhere around 110 miles. So in terms of range, it's not a close comparison. Nothing wrong with that, but let's not confuse the tests underlying the different drive cycles.

     

    On some Chinese (or European) test like that, the Tesla Model S might also achieve 350-400 miles of range.
    4 Jul 2014, 03:19 PM Reply Like
  • aho
    , contributor
    Comments (7) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » I agree. Thank you for pointing out the difference between the U.S. EPA drive cycle and company's claims. Main factor is aerodynamics, because the U.S. cycle includes higher speed segments.

     

    Tesla Model S uses a 60kWh battery to get 208 miles on EPA cycle. If Denza has the same efficiency, 47.5 kWh will only yield 165 miles.
    8 Jul 2014, 09:22 AM Reply Like
  • EVUK_co_uk
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    You forgot to mention - or don´t know - that Daimler has at least $60 million invested in Tesla !!!!

     

    Since they invested that $60 million the stock value has at least quintupled...so $300 million by now ?
    Daimler would in effect be competing AGAINST itself or its own huge stake in Tesla if it launched the long-range Denza worldwide!!!
    This is the antithesis of free-market competition. They get away with it largely because hardly anyone knows and/or few "journalists" now dare to tell inconvenient truths.
    And they don´t want to spoil Tesla´s stock-party..especially if they´re now invested in Tesla themselves.

     

    20 Aug 2014, 09:39 AM Reply Like
  • aho
    , contributor
    Comments (7) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Both Daimler and Toyota invested in Tesla, but it is highly unlikely that these investments influence Daimler and Toyota's product roadmap. Remember both Daimler and Toyota are car companies, and must survive based on selling cars.

     

    More likely Daimler is trying to shift to their business to electric car at the right speed (slowly and under other brands/partnerships), so as to not disrupt their current revenue stream from ICE products.
    19 Sep 2014, 08:00 AM Reply Like
  • EVUK_co_uk
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    You forgot to mention - or don´t know - that Daimler has at least $60 million invested in Tesla !!!!

     

    Since they invested that $60 million (in 2008 ?) the stock value has at least quintupled...so $300 million by now ?
    Daimler would in effect be competing AGAINST itself or its own huge stake in Tesla if it launched the long-range Denza worldwide!!!
    This is the antithesis of free-market competition. They get away with it largely because hardly anyone knows and/or few "journalists" now dare to tell inconvenient truths.
    And they don´t want to spoil Tesla´s stock-party..especially if they´re now invested in Tesla themselves.

     

    20 Aug 2014, 09:39 AM Reply Like
  • EVUK_co_uk
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    $760 million - according to trusted EV site InsideEVs Daimler´s investment 8 months ago had soared to 760 m.

     

    See: http://bit.ly/1lhwO5K

     

    It should now have passed the billion mark - so both Tesla and Daimler are sadly extremely compromised with respect to the 186 mile/charge Denza and long-range EV´s . One key never-mentioned(except by us - http://www.EVUK.co.uk) reason why the Denza is frustratingly only being launched in China this year.
    20 Aug 2014, 09:40 AM Reply Like
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