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  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    About time I won the bell cow award!
    26 Sep 2012, 05:00 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1783) | Send Message
     
    Always second in line.
    Anyway, John wanted to congratulate you on your presentation. Very well done. As many have said, it's pretty much old news for all of us here, but it's about time the industry hears it and does something about it. It would have been fun at the workshop if at one point, Enders had stood up and said, "anyone interested in being a strategic partner with Axion, please meet me in the back of the room in 5 minutes." I would have loved to have seen the reaction by others if anyone came.
    26 Sep 2012, 05:21 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    I am sure TG's remarks have echoed throughout the entire battery sector. I am sure they read competitor's 10Q's. I am also certain most of the interested major customers are aware of Axion's interest in a strategic partner. I would bet one or more third parties are contacting companies that Axion considers the most desirable strategic partners in an effort to measure interest and as a bridge to direct talks. At least that's how it worked in my wheeling and dealing days. I wonder how many LAB companies are hoping to pick up the IP and technical knowledge in a bankruptcy auction someday? I would think a lot of them just wish Axion would go away.

     

    Selling higher margin batteries into a market that destroys them quickly is a manufacturer's dream. The auto oems can point fingers at the battery makers and the battery makers can point fingers at the auto oems until something cuts off both their fingers.
    26 Sep 2012, 05:52 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    "... I wonder how many LAB companies are hoping to pick up the IP and technical knowledge in a bankruptcy auction someday? I would think a lot of them just wish Axion would go away.

     

    Selling higher margin batteries into a market that destroys them quickly is a manufacturer's dream. The auto oems can point fingers at the battery makers and the battery makers can point fingers at the auto oems until something cuts off both their fingers"

     

    Here here Bang. :(

     

    Can't add anything to your thoughts re: the shop and search mission though. It's Martian stuff to me. Closest I ever came to sales was team presentations to potential clients and presentations to potential new owners in places of employment. Your experience in this area is quite foreign to me.
    26 Sep 2012, 06:22 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    Another point we've discussed several times before, is that the PbC will last about 2.5 times as long as a conventional LA battery -- my best guess.

     

    This needs to be factored into the ROI of whatever percentage of fuel savings are deemed accurate. For instance, I'm on my second LA batt in a 2006 Explorer, which cost me $180. I probably changed out the battery about 10,000 miles ago, and am only nearing in on 50,000 miles today. So if I drive the car until 100,000 miles, I will have to replace the LA battery once again, around the 80,000 mile mark, and I bet the next one will cost even more.

     

    This all changes the ROI significantly when and if the AGM battery makes stop/start non-functional after only 2.5 to 8 months, especially when Axion claims the PbC will last 8.5 years.

     

    I'm not sure how any automotive bean counter can currently compute the savings a consumer will enjoy, versus the extra cost to build out a stop/start vehicle using a PbC versus an AGM battery.

     

    We've all been trying to figure out the savings versus the cost for well over a year. It's there, but cloudy as brackish water.
    26 Sep 2012, 07:05 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4807) | Send Message
     
    >Mayascribe ... I doubt very much that an automotive bean counter would care one wit about consumer savings. The extra build cost, with associated margin impact, warranty failure and regulatory (non)compliance expense would be my guess as to the extend of concern.
    26 Sep 2012, 07:18 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Wow Maya, I have a son driving a 2003 Bonneville given to him 4 years ago which we bought new. Original battery. It's located under the back seat. Yours must be under the hood I take it. Temperature does make a BIG difference. 72K miles.
    26 Sep 2012, 07:34 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    Oh I don't know, DRich, maybe you're right. But how many commercials have I seen over the years with some car being promoted with an new fuel injection system or turbo charger that will save fuel.

     

    There's umpteen cases of some new feature or function that automakers have installed in cars and SUVs, like a program that monitors your tire pressure, or driving habits.

     

    It's exactly what the Chevy Volt commercials are promoting: "I haven't been to a gas station in so long that I have forgotten how to fill my car up."

     

    Fuel savings in today's economy is a huge feature that helps sell cars.

     

    I guess the difference is that the bean counters versus the marketing and design departments have different goals.
    26 Sep 2012, 07:54 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    Yep, under the hood, and always outside (until I get my garage cleaned out). It's painted black, too, which I guess doesn't help either during the hotter months.
    26 Sep 2012, 07:56 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4807) | Send Message
     
    >Mayscribe ... I must be confused. I thought you were talking about the bean counters ... not the marketing. Marketing does sort of care about providing the most minimalist (bean counter approved) solution to perceived consumer desire (until you get to the real low volume, luxury models) necessary to make a sale.
    26 Sep 2012, 08:02 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Maya. Yeah I'm amazed with the life of the battery in the situation I gave. But I have typically gotten 7-8 years out of a modern batteries in a climate not too far from yours (Rochester NY). All the others were under the hood.

     

    You have one of those 10kW boom boxes Perhaps? LOL
    26 Sep 2012, 08:11 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2962) | Send Message
     
    Maya, advertising "economy" may help sell some cars. Actually improving mileage, they don't give a *****.
    26 Sep 2012, 09:18 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2112) | Send Message
     
    Finally a day off and I am grilling out instead of being first on the new concentrator. Rats. I could use a cow bell award.
    26 Sep 2012, 05:48 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    new Rosewater article: http://bit.ly/NRSyD5
    26 Sep 2012, 05:50 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    BTW, Rosewater Web site no great shakes either ...

     

    you would think the Residential Energy Hub would be splashed all over the home page, but you would be wrong.

     

    You would think it would warrant a mention on the Product page ... but you would be wrong.
    26 Sep 2012, 05:57 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    This is new, from the article: "The company expects to start shipping the product in November." Not sure I believe that, but what the heck, it would be nice.
    26 Sep 2012, 06:55 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Wtb: I find this quite impressive: "Not only that, but according to Piccirilli, the batteries can go from dead to full power with only 20-minutes of charging!"

     

    IIRC, we load 10-12 KwH? In 20 minutes is that 30-36 Kw of steady feed?

     

    Ignoring the "power factor", which is beyond me, and using 115 volts, I get ~261-313 amps.

     

    I assume some losses in the process would up those numbers.

     

    Regardless, heat generation must be low and dissipation must be quite good. This also seems to imply that our rumored 400 amp charge rate might be reality.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 07:15 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2962) | Send Message
     
    This was discussed earlier. I confirmed with RoseWater they meant the batteries could be charged, in theory, 80% in 20 minutes. However, the charging circuit on the ResHub would take about an hour. I do not think the difference between 20 minutes or one hour is meaningful to consumers for grid-connected service.

     

    By my estimate, a full, 100% charge would take 2-3 hours. Topping off any battery is much slower than bulk charging.
    27 Sep 2012, 08:06 AM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (998) | Send Message
     
    "Basically the Residential Energy Storage Hub (RESH) is like your very own energy control and supply sub-station that you monitor and control to provide your home – and only your home – with the purest, most consistent, rock-stable power possible. "

     

    One would think that should shake a lot of trees...but how many others have made this statement and not backed it up.

     

    Rosewater trigger point will be a few successful installs.
    27 Sep 2012, 11:27 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2962) | Send Message
     
    Mag, reality check. There have been online battery UPSs for decades - every computer center has one. ResHub may be first marketed to homeowners, but this is not earth-shaking fantabulistic 22nd century stuff. I wish them well, and they may well be successful.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Rick, the ResHub does add grid independent functionality like solar, wind the dual inversion that you talk about...
    27 Sep 2012, 12:10 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2962) | Send Message
     
    Tim, I have no doubt the ResHub is a fine product, and do hope it does well in the marketplace. It may well be superior to existing products.

     

    My point is online, aka dual inversion, battery UPSs have been available for decades, and all of them handle dual inputs (generator and grid), and could easily, with off the shelf hardware, be capable of more inputs, such as wind, solar, micro-hydro, etc. Most newer online UPSs have some network communications either built-in, or as a minor option at build time.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    I agree with your point and am pleased to see Axion in a market that already exists (sort of). I just wish we could come to profitability in existing markets instead of waiting for something to emerge but that's another story...
    27 Sep 2012, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (998) | Send Message
     
    Rick

     

    Thanks for the RC...understood.
    Was thinking more of getting the AXPW name and functionalities out there.

     

    I know...small potatoes...just looking for something positive sooner than later.
    27 Sep 2012, 10:18 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (2079) | Send Message
     
    Check out NEXS after they got additional investment.

     

    http://yhoo.it/SBb0C9

     

    11c to 40c, then to 87c after patent news. What a week for them!
    26 Sep 2012, 06:12 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1927) | Send Message
     
    It is pretty fun doing a one, two and five year chart compare with them and axpw. I would bet this APC and Jp's blogging has kept our chart looking like a cantilevered bridge while their chart fell into an abyss.

     

    http://yhoo.it/Qc3Yyy
    26 Sep 2012, 06:36 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (2079) | Send Message
     
    Amazing parallel! Not selling until we get ours too!

     

    I'd say our chances to land a strategic investor is pretty high thanks for our technology, but does anyone have a more informed opinion on the process and the odds?
    26 Sep 2012, 07:09 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2112) | Send Message
     
    This is a reprint as requested by Mr. I from the previous concentrator.
    Hi Futurist,
    The California smog test is run with the vehicle computer plugged into a smog computer, any old faults on the computer are read as well as hard faults. The smog test is run on a dyno, so it would be easy to set up a test scenario for a quick and easy s/s test, possibly while the testor is entering info into the smog computer. Instead of shutting the vehicle off after pulling onto the dyno, a s/s vehicle could be left to idle, if no shut down occurs then it would be a smog failure.
    26 Sep 2012, 06:23 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Stilldazed, but also need your first post:

     

    "Hi Guys,
    As a Californian I can say with 95% accuracy that anything sold as a pollution control or efficiency control feature will be tested every two years in this state. This gives the car companies a two year grace period before the State mandates that the companies fix or replace the batteries as pollution devices must be covered for 70,000 miles."

     

    As a fact matter, what do you guys think? We've got some great fact-checkers here! If true, or plausible, then I'd love for Brishwain and JP to read it and then ask the ELBC attendees about it and get their answers.

     

    We all know Cali often sets the agenda for such matters...
    26 Sep 2012, 06:35 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Mr. I. In NY cars require safety inspections and emissions inspections every year. Also have a son working short term in VA and his NY inspection is coming due. In VA safety inspections are annual and emissions are every two years.

     

    Just an FYI if it supports your thought process.

     

    Here's a site that indicates the states that require emissions testing.

     

    http://www.emissions.org
    26 Sep 2012, 07:17 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    ISTM the key is, "anything sold as a pollution control or efficiency control feature". If s/s is defined as that by the states, and the automakers think that the states will meaningfully test s/s, then we may already have a 'stick' we were looking for. State compliance.

     

    If the work-around is simply a battery top-off, then retest shortly thereafter, then not helpful enough until the battery's really trashed. Devil's in the details, I suppose, and I'm a long way from understanding those here. And what do they test in Europe already, where s/s is already well on it's way? Not a well-publicized peep about regulatory fails says maybe the rules aren't adequately in place yet.

     

    WIth 2 year testing lead times, anything sold now is a problem in only 2 years. That's at least some motivation to act sooner vs later.
    26 Sep 2012, 07:39 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4807) | Send Message
     
    >Mr Investor ... State compliance can be a big stick. The big excuse is that "Best Available Technology". There is so much wiggle room in that phrase. For instance, if OEM's adopt AGM-Carbon and not a PbC, is the PbC best available technology?
    26 Sep 2012, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    DRich--Thanks. I suppose what I'm getting at is this question---will currently used s/s batteries fail Cali pollution inspection?, i.e., do we even need a change in law?
    26 Sep 2012, 07:54 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    I still think the the OBD is the best way to check.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 05:57 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    HTL, what would generate the error? the car just kept running. You might have to compile the log to see if the car should have been able to shut off...
    27 Sep 2012, 02:53 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Tim: consider that code exists that says "I want to shut of the engine if ..." e.g.
    - foot off accelerator, speed below xx, ... battery charge correct OOPS!

     

    So, as the checklist that attempts to see if the stop can be done is examined, if the battery charge causes a "no", that's a "log failure" event.

     

    There could be other conditions: everything else must be yes or certain other things only must be yes, time x average speed must equal sufficient time since last "off" event to charge the battery if it's health was good, ...

     

    Think of your pre-trip inspection. Similar scenario.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 03:06 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    HTL: Totally agree but don't think the automakers will voluntarily add that code <smile>. I bought the electronics to monitor the logs for our engine and have witnessed the coding shift from verbose to terse as it can be used against them...
    27 Sep 2012, 03:17 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Tim: You're right that the auto makers wouldn't make it available if they could avoid it, except to their own technicians. But regulatory mandates with associated hefty fines might persuade them.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 03:26 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2297) | Send Message
     
    I've discovered a new term that may apply to some of us waiting for the share price to fall farther.

     

    "Detritivore."

     

    http://bit.ly/SBg21z
    26 Sep 2012, 06:39 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    9/26/2012: AXPW EOD stuff partly copied from (what will be in my instablog when I get time to update it again).
    # Trds: 54, MinTrSz: 100, MaxTrSz: 28000, Vol 376833, AvTrSz: 6978
    Min. Pr: 0.2790, Max Pr: 0.2945, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2863
    # Buys, Shares: 33 197850, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2883
    # Sells, Shares: 21 178983, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2841
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1.11:1 (52.5% “buys”), DlyShts 160300 (42.5%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 89.56%

     

    Not a bad day. Watch out for T+3? Two days of “healthy” shorting by the market-makers now – yesterday was ~260K. Will they “buy to cover” and then sell the incoming to the market or let the DTCC clearing process net their positions.

     

    Regardless, I'm glad to see them coming back to normal levels.

     

    Running late, so I'll stop here. I'll have more in my instablog for yesterday and today when I get time to update it again.

     

    HardToLove
    26 Sep 2012, 07:06 PM Reply Like
  • Renzo
    , contributor
    Comments (353) | Send Message
     
    I just had a wildly speculative, completely unsupported conjecture.

     

    What if NS is waiting for a little more testing on the next incremental generation of PbC (dubbed "PbC#2" in the last figure of the SAE paper) before they purchase batteries for their yard slug?
    26 Sep 2012, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    And what if they had better margins? :-)
    26 Sep 2012, 11:39 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    WTB, they could sell their over supply of coal cars...
    27 Sep 2012, 02:55 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4807) | Send Message
     
    >Tim Enright ... No, they wouldn't sell the coal cars. They would park them because the only sale possible would be for scrap metal.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:25 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4363) | Send Message
     
    "They would park them because the only sale possible would be for scrap metal."

     

    Possible to convert them to OTR assist wagons?
    27 Sep 2012, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    I'm really looking forward to JP and Brian's further comments from the ELBC. JP gave an excellent presentation and Brian did a good job of gathering info so far. Enders gives his presentation tomorrow.

     

    Even though we already knew Ford wasn't going to be an early PbC adopter, the Ford guy's comments really whipped up the crowd here today.
    26 Sep 2012, 08:00 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Has anyone heard of "Battery Regeneration Mode" before? It's a VW term.

     

    "The car’s combined fuel consumption— the lowest yet attained in a conventionally-fueled Golf— was enabled by innovative lightweight design (including 26 kg less weight in the chassis and 37 kg less in the superstructure); engine-related modifications; and a collection of other measures. These include super low rolling resistance tires with higher air pressure; longer gear ratios (5-speed manual gearbox); the Stop/Start system; and battery regeneration mode that are standard in all new Golf cars and specific aerodynamic modifications."

     

    "Third-generation Golf BlueMotion concept lowers fuel consumption to 3.2 l/100 km (73.5 mpg US); on sale in summer 2013"

     

    http://bit.ly/TDxkfY
    26 Sep 2012, 08:19 PM Reply Like
  • D_Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    They don't mean standard regenerative braking?
    26 Sep 2012, 09:30 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1783) | Send Message
     
    IINDelco,

     

    Here's another reference to the model where they call it "brake energy recovery mode", which I take to mean regenerative braking.

     

    "Being based on the Modular Transverse Matrix, Volkswagen developed two new engine generations for the Golf, both fitted with a standard Stop/Start system (reducing fuel consumption by up to four per cent) and brake energy recovery mode (cutting CO2 by around four per cent).
    With all measures combined, VW claims that it was possible to reduce CO2 emissions by up to 23 per cent (depending on versions and driving style / conditions of course)."

     

    http://bit.ly/PGZcul
    26 Sep 2012, 09:31 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Thanks LabTech.

     

    Well we know the market's there. Now, how to pic some of it up?

     

    Step one is a partner for sure.
    28 Sep 2012, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30642) | Send Message
     
    The viewer count this morning is 149 views and 127 unique visitors, so the traffic is still pretty high.
    26 Sep 2012, 11:53 PM Reply Like
  • alsobirdman
    , contributor
    Comments (428) | Send Message
     
    I was one of them, John. Very nice job. As one who makes frequent public presentations I know it isn't easy. You are a master with words and timing. You should consider stand-up!

     

    BTW, have you guys checked out Bret Jensens pan of TSLA on SA?
    27 Sep 2012, 06:17 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Wait 'till folks wake up.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 06:33 AM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1904) | Send Message
     
    As always. I appreciate what you understand and how you present the information. I hope all this brings new clients.
    27 Sep 2012, 10:53 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Thotdoc: Isn't your book out as of 9/21? I got to go looking. What was the title again? "No More Faceplants"?

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (998) | Send Message
     
    John

     

    I assume the difference between views and unique are those who view >1ce?
    I viewed 2ce to try to more fully digest...others might also.
    I assume you had a very learned and receptive audience.

     

    I could follow only based on following your articles and the blogs.

     

    Yes, as others have said, mostly comments you have previously blogged about. But I wonder if audience fully digested your presentation.
    27 Sep 2012, 11:40 AM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (998) | Send Message
     
    alsobirdman

     

    I read Jensen's article.
    Observations consistent with John's critique.
    I suggested he put on a flak jacket...the emotional believers are going at him.
    27 Sep 2012, 11:42 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    Smart Grid Live draws innovators to Fort Collins
    Energy experts laud FortZED, Fort Collins' planned zero-energy district

     

    http://noconow.co/VLveYt

     

    "Founder, President and CEO of Philadelphia-based Viridity Energy Audrey Zibelman attended the conference and said what’s impressive about the work coming out of Fort Collins is it’s community driven rather than utility driven."

     

    So when you get depressed about slow moving autos, rails, and utilities, remember ... there is still some hope. Don't these folks need a PowerCube or two?

     

    Newspaper article ... not much meat. A big part of the community is Colorado State University.

     

    http://bit.ly/OqZed5

     

    http://bit.ly/Q22ico

     

    Clean energy companies
    Learn how to do business with FortZED.
    Contact info@coloradocleanenergy dot com

     

    Who's got Vani on Speed-dial?

     

    http://bit.ly/Q23fRN ... they had a speaker from BYD America
    26 Sep 2012, 11:58 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30642) | Send Message
     
    FIRST ULTRABATTERY DATA POINT

     

    The University of Sheffield has done some characterization work on the Ultrabattery where they compared it against an AGM battery and an AGM battery with a Maxwell supercapacitor module like the system that's being used by Peugeot-Citroen.

     

    My take from 150 feet back in the auditorium was that the Ultrabattery came in BETWEEN those two configurations and had roughly 1/4 of the capacitance of the AGM-Maxwell system. When I get my copy of the slide presentations and can study them in detail, I'll add what I can. In the meantime, I can't really say more.

     

    It's only one data point but it has pared my Ultrabattery objective threat assessment by at least 50%.
    27 Sep 2012, 07:42 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (798) | Send Message
     
    Gracias Paris:
    Everything indicates that the Derby will be run with a single horse. (AXION PbC Tech.)
    Have a nice day!!
    Carlos.
    27 Sep 2012, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • axion-nl
    , contributor
    Comments (183) | Send Message
     
    Hi John, in Istanbul BMW and AXION presented together... any idea why this year is different?
    27 Sep 2012, 08:05 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30642) | Send Message
     
    In 2010 the focus was exclusively automotive and there was no discussion of other heavy cycling PSOC applications including rail, renewables and grid. This year the PbC was being presented as a great solution for all those markets and doing a joint presentation with BMW would have limited the scope, rather than adding credibility.

     

    Ender's presentation was very educational and I learned a couple new facts that are very important. Firstly, the new work under the SBIR grant will use 150 amp charging current instead of 100 amps. Secondly the reason the PbC performs so well in a string derives from the charging curve differences between lead-acid and PbC. Apparently the PbC has a concave charging curve, like a bowl placed upside down while lead-acid has a convex charging curve. The concavity of the curve apparently forces the cells and batteries in a string into balance without active battery management.

     

    I expect to have a copy of the Axion presentation within a day or two and when I get it I'll load it to my Dropbox and then post a link.
    27 Sep 2012, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Hi John. Hows the hit rate on your presentation looking now?

     

    hardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (798) | Send Message
     
    Mr John:
    Sorry, but I can not stay in the dark, which means: SBIR?
    Thanks & have a nice Paris.
    Carlos-
    27 Sep 2012, 11:36 AM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2660) | Send Message
     
    Carlos,

     

    The gov't grant that was awarded in May ...
    27 Sep 2012, 11:42 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    "DOE awards $150K SBIR Phase I grant to Axion Power to fund commercialization plan for PbC batteries in micro-hybrid vehicles
    23 May 2012

     

    The US Department of Energy (DOE) has awarded a Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) Phase I grant of $150,000 to Axion Power to fund a commercialization plan for the use of its PbC batteries (earlier post) in a low-cost, high-efficiency dual battery architecture for micro-hybrid vehicles.

     

    http://bit.ly/QX9HZY
    27 Sep 2012, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30642) | Send Message
     
    163 total views - 143 unique visitors.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:29 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    Some more unique than others :-)
    27 Sep 2012, 12:35 PM Reply Like
  • FocalPoint Analytics
    , contributor
    Comments (6170) | Send Message
     
    "... many auto OEMs ... looking at going the two-battery route ..."

     

    How would a single PbC compare with a two battery approach in terms of performance, weight, and cost?
    27 Sep 2012, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4363) | Send Message
     
    FPA < How would a single PbC compare with a two battery approach in terms of performance, weight, and cost?

     

    Attempting to play Sherlock, I deduce that a single PbC S/S is feasible, would involve less weight than a two battery system, and would probably cost less but a buyer would not like to leave it parked at the airport for 3 - 4 weeks.

     

    Also, at some point TG mentioned a single battery PbC system was a possibility.
    27 Sep 2012, 11:50 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2962) | Send Message
     
    Single-battery Bio-carbon is problematical. Bio-carbon have relatively fast self-discharge, so a few weeks at an airport may mean a jump-start. For robustness, many systems on truck, boats, etc, separate hotel from starting loads, and use different batteries. Because of a minor misfunction, you don't want to end up stuck at a traffic light because of the A/C.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:09 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    FPA, The PbC will not work in a single battery system because of the decay in the capacitive charge. Will not meet the requirements of the airport test. This means that if you park the vehicle too long the charge will decay to a point where the vehicle will not start. The automakers have a minimum time that this needs to meet.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2297) | Send Message
     
    That disadvantage of self discharge while parked could probably be negated with a $20 solar panel to trickle charge the battery. As long as you don't park it under a roof.

     

    Are there any OEM's that have toyed with such an idea?
    27 Sep 2012, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: Simple solution - put a micro solar panel on the roof of each car and don't park it "where the sun don't shine"! ;-)) Yuk-yuk.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 12:15 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2297) | Send Message
     
    Until it snows, of course.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:17 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    SMaturin: The key phrase was "where the sun don't shine"! Implying some unsuitable anatomical nether-regions.

     

    Geez! :-))

     

    NP! We put an itsy-bitsy hydro-electric generator down near the splash rails and channel the snow-melt run-off through it.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 12:24 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    SMaturin, The Japanese have done some things with small solar panels on vehicles. I remember one app. where they were using the energy to cycle the HVAC motor at some frequency to vent the vehicle interior in hot climates. Not enough energy for the AC but you can store enough to exhaust some of the heat to reduce the differential between the interior of the car and the environment.

     

    Good for the black car getting in the car with shorts on crowd.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    HTL, Maybe one of those little vacuum cleaner robots with solar panels on top and a cord tied to the vehicle. When you park the car the little guy drops off and, within range, goes and finds some rays! And when you hit the key fob to unlock the door the cord retracts and parks the little guy in his garage. The "Smart Sun" system. Not to be confused with SS.

     

    That'd get some attention. Maybe a Yuk-yuk or three! ;))
    27 Sep 2012, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • FocalPoint Analytics
    , contributor
    Comments (6170) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the answers gang. So even the PbC will need to be pared with another back-up battery to pass the 'airport' test. I think this means when we compare costs of the PbC with other systems, we need to include the cost of the back-up battery.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    FPA: Not a back up battery per say, but a small lead acid cranking battery to start the car, plus addtional wiring. Probably around $80.00.

     

    So yes, that cost needs to be figured in with the price of the PbC.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    iindelco: Very inventive!

     

    Fisker Karma has a solar roof. Here's some pictures:

     

    http://binged.it/SEmXqN
    27 Sep 2012, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    FPA: Frankly, I amazed that I never asked TG about the possibility of Axion making the cranking battery. They certainly have the facilities to do it.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:51 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    Adding, as I undertstand it, the PbC's job has nothing to do with starting the car. The PbC's job is all about when the engine is off, hence the terms Hotel Loads, and Sailing Time (when the vehicle is coasting to a stop light).
    27 Sep 2012, 12:53 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Maya, The Bebe's probably uses that to fire up his karaoke machine. ;)

     

    The modern definition of a "Sun Roof"?
    27 Sep 2012, 12:55 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2962) | Send Message
     
    Maya, the wiring diagram I saw do let the Bio-Carbon deliver supplementary power to the starting battery, if needed and available. So "nothing to do with starting the car" is not completely accurate, but is mostly true.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    Rick: Thanks for the "not completely accurate, but is mostly true" correction. ;-)
    27 Sep 2012, 01:18 PM Reply Like
  • FocalPoint Analytics
    , contributor
    Comments (6170) | Send Message
     
    Maya, Brishwain's two battery pairing note started me wondering. You are of course correct, Axion has the ability to make the cranking battery as well. But their business model is to sell the PbC electrodes to a major. I think that the requirement to pair the Axion battery with a standard cranking battery is fantastic news because it means that the Major that teams up with Axion not only gets to sell the Axion battery, but one of their own along with it.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    FPA: Great point! I had not before thought of that angle involving a strategic partner...that they also get to pair their cranking battery with their PbC, using Axion's carbon sheeting and electrodes.

     

    That's a neat, enticing sales pitch.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:24 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1783) | Send Message
     
    So does anyone know what the purpose of the solar roof is on top of the Karma? If it's to attract the blonde in the red bathing suit to lay on top of my car, I gotta get me one of those! :-)
    27 Sep 2012, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2297) | Send Message
     
    "SMaturin: The key phrase was "where the sun don't shine"! Implying some unsuitable anatomical nether-regions."

     

    Is that where the Brick(ed) Teslacles are kept?
    27 Sep 2012, 03:05 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2962) | Send Message
     
    LT, that is the only use. Not sure if effective with blondes. The output of that small a panel will basically keep the clock and security system alive, not much else.
    27 Sep 2012, 05:37 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    SMaturin: LoL! Very likely,

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 06:25 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (8934) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/QrYtM7
    30 Sep 2012, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2660) | Send Message
     
    Talk about getting taken to the woodshed this year in the energy storage sector.

     

    Any thoughts on the accuracy of Lux and Pike and the other research houses forecasts and potential confirmation bias? At one time, research houses were predicting electric cars to be the next big thing.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    Pike just put out a big research paper on grid storage. Not a single mention of Axion as far as I can tell from what's been made available for interested parties.
    27 Sep 2012, 04:54 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4807) | Send Message
     
    >Edmund Metcalfe ... As noted before, there is no reason for Lux or Pike to mention Axion in association to grid. There are no utility demonstration data available for them to consider. The only (and inconsequential) project is an on site PowerCube and though unique Viridity hasn't published any performance data (that I know of). Axion is just not in the game ... yet.
    27 Sep 2012, 05:09 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/QvfKXN

     

    The full title of the paper is what had me wondering, as I consider the Axion PbC to be one of the....

     

    "Advanced Batteries for Utility-Scale Energy Storage Applications"

     

    subtitle:
    Lithium Ion, Sodium Sulfur, Advanced Lead-Acid, Sodium Metal Halide, and Advanced Flow Batteries for Grid Asset Optimization, T&D Deferral, Renewables Integration, Ancillary Services, and Arbitrage: Global Market Analysis and Forecasts
    27 Sep 2012, 06:24 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1579) | Send Message
     
    Good question, Stefan.

     

    But I think we've been just too damn early. . .
    Energy storage is going to be much bigger than it is currently--but it won't be as easy as many had hoped, myself included. And it will be expensive.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:32 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2660) | Send Message
     
    Beginning to think investing in energy storage is like investing in Apple in the 80s or early 90s ...
    27 Sep 2012, 12:56 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    Stef - don't get tooooo starry eyed.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:44 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    Or the 1960s. Way too early. ;^P
    27 Sep 2012, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2660) | Send Message
     
    Nakedjaybird.

     

    Just aggravated. The day before the last ZBB CC, ZBB voted to amend their Articles of Incorporation to allow for between a 5 to 15 reverse split (probably to keep their Amex listing). However, they didn't release this information publicly until about a week later after the CC had already concluded b/c in my view they did not want to have to deal with questions about it. At the same time, they are attempting to increase their incentive/stock option plans. Not well played in my opinion,

     

    ZBB has been speaking of inflection points in sales since last year ... while they have made great progress in their product lines and getting good strategic demonstrations ... sales have not followed.
    I don't think they should take the easy way out with a reverse split.

     

    Mgt's of the various energy storage companies that I have been following or investing in, keep leaning on Lux and Pike in support of their forecasts, but at this point, the sales are not following.
    27 Sep 2012, 07:01 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1579) | Send Message
     
    “The electricity market has to sell everything it produces when it is produced. The market today does not fully value the product of energy storage.”
    “Right now, we only have the capacity to store 2 percent of energy of peak periods and that’s all in hydro (electricity),” said Neubauer, noting the U.S. electric power industry is strictly a supply-on-demand market with no storage capacity.
    Neubauer is senior engineer for National Renewable Energy Laboratory of Golden, Colo. which is researching second-use capabilities for used lithium-ion car batteries like those going into the Chevy Volt.
    http://bit.ly/QrcUnf
    27 Sep 2012, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • alsobirdman
    , contributor
    Comments (428) | Send Message
     
    Yes, and that's a very hard concept for the layman to understand. I've been in the electric utility industry for many years, and the hardest thing for me to explain to people is that for every MW of wind or solar power you install you have to have the same in nuclear/ coal/ gas on-line to take up the slack when the sun don't shine. I've given up trying to convince my wife. She's no dummy but her response to every energy discussion is to build more wind turbines.

     

    That concept is one of the reasons I am here. Lots of potential.
    27 Sep 2012, 12:54 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Curious about your thoughts of wind turbines next to stored hydro...
    27 Sep 2012, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    alsobirdman, That might change just a little bit with the smart grid. The ability to intelligently shed/shift load (What Viridity calls NegaWatts) would change the formula a little. But by and large your comments are accurate for sure.

     

    So far based on the costs and method of implementation I think the term "Redumbdant capacity" applies in almost all cases.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    Re. stored hydro: Grand Coulee Dam with it's 8,000 MW capacity (and I'm not referring to part of the 8,000 available from the actual pumped storage from Banks Lake above the Dam) is already being used as peaking power, filling in the gaps and/or variability of wind and solar. Nat Gas plants have become base load providers due to take or pay nat gas contracts (at high prices, yet), and the cheapest consistent renewable is used variably - go figure.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:49 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Thanks NJB, my curiosity stems from the hordes of wind turbines going in on the Columbia Gorge. Just wondering if they used in conjunction with one another (should have been more specific in my initial message).
    27 Sep 2012, 02:35 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1219) | Send Message
     
    Where I live in Texas, instead of going with grid storage, they are developing a demand management approach. It involves installing a smart meter and thermostats for the heat, A/C, and water heater that talk to the meter. When demand starts to exceed supply, they "cycle" a portion of the houses with the smart meters for up to 30 minutes. Cycling sets your thermostat up by 5 degrees from whatever you have it set at and turns off your water heater. Homeowners can override it, though, with a touch of the thermostat if it becomes uncomfortable. Right now the program is voluntary and I had the system installed in my house last month. You get really nice touch screen thermostats for free and the few times that we were cycled, I barely noticed. I am thinking a lot of cities will be going with this type of system because it gives greater control and is cheaper than grid storage.
    27 Sep 2012, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    nakedjaybird, Makes sense to me. If you have a hydro generator and you don't have unlimited water, use it as a peaker plant. Or fill in the gaps for your renewables.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    nogoodslacker, Makes sense to me. I'd sign up for that.

     

    That being said, on average in NY, I don't use the AC that much. You can put a fan in the window at night most of the warmer months to cool things down and in the day you close the windows and blinds. Rinse and repeat. Probably have the air on for a total of maybe 150 hours/year on average. But you do get that occasional year out of 10 where the use is way up.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • alsobirdman
    , contributor
    Comments (428) | Send Message
     
    yo are correct to a point. I've been involved a bit with some smart-grid stuff. Enough to know that it is certainly a step in the right direction, and also that conservation is a whole lot cheaper than new capacity.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:31 PM Reply Like
  • alsobirdman
    , contributor
    Comments (428) | Send Message
     
    great idea, but again limited application, since you have to have ample wind close to the hydro station and you have to get past the tree huggers as well. In upstate NY where I am most familiar, you'll never see wind turbines next to the small hydro plants in the mountains.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    The wind farm adjacent to the Columbia Gorge is supposed to be the largest in the US when it is completed. I was just curious if they may have got something right (for a change)...
    27 Sep 2012, 03:44 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    Slack: Same around where I live are smart meters being installed...but with great controversy.

     

    -- ...in Pennsylvania, 29 of the 201,642 smart meters installed by Peco Energy Co. have overheated and fire has seriously damaged two homes.

     

    http://trib.in/QXE82h
    27 Sep 2012, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1783) | Send Message
     
    Living here in NC, it would be interesting to see if they would have to change the cycling depending on the type of AC you have. I have a dual zone system in my house with a heat-pump upstairs and a normal AC downstairs. I had maintenance done on the heat pump a while back and talked to the tech about using a programmable thermostat to modulate use when I'm not home. I was told by the tech that this was not a good idea for a heat-pump and that varying the temperature more than a couple of degrees on any regular basis really puts a lot strain on the system. I don't understand the differences between a heat-pump vs a normal AC enough to know why it made such a difference, but I would warn against anyone signing up for such a program who has a heat-pump. IMHO.
    28 Sep 2012, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    Grand Coulee Dam is one of say 18 or so dams on the Columbia and Snake Rivers. Maybe less than a half dozen of the lower Columbia Dams are in and near the Gorge and the Windpower.

     

    However, Grand Coulee is the largest capacity. They parasitically spin one generator (500 MW) so that it can be on line within say 10-20 minutes, and also be dropped likewise, best of my knowledge.

     

    At times the wind guys are told to shut 'em down when the hydro etc., cannot accomodate. The preference is to keep the wind generating, and wheeling it off to California, etc.

     

    They are interconnected to a degree within the Bonneville Power Administration, for which John Peterson has discussed to some degree in his earlier writings.
    30 Sep 2012, 07:32 AM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    Well, the cheapest power is hydro (<$0.02/kwh at retail), and the Columbia/Snake River system has ~half of all hydro capacity in the US.

     

    The issue with water is not necessarily it's availability from it's storage (it recharges every year). But the regulators have dictated that the fishies be satisfied or not killed - additionally, the plot thickens. And then it thickens even more with the alternative sources, costs, contracts, etc.

     

    One would think we'd use the cheapest power available for base load; that's a sane starting point and it only get's worse from there.

     

    I've suggested dynamic pumped hydro utilizing the variable wind and solar power if/when/as available to drive staged, variable speed pumping stations downstream from dams to pump the water back above the dams as a way to store the variable renewable power as it fluctuates. The water behind the dams are the largest "electrical storage batteries" in existence. But, water flow or various sorts dictates. And it's beyond me to know and figure out - lot's of folks get paid big salaries for such - and it's beyond my pay grade (and influence).
    30 Sep 2012, 07:45 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    "I've suggested dynamic pumped hydro utilizing the variable wind and solar power if/when/as available to drive staged, variable speed pumping stations downstream from dams to pump the water back above the dams as a way to store the variable renewable power as it fluctuates..."

     

    This makes the most sense to me and was my initial curiosity. Perhaps this is their ultimate goal. Thank you for sharing your knowledge...
    30 Sep 2012, 08:21 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    NJB: as to pumping the water back up, don't folks downstream need water for various things? ISTM we might have unintended consequences there: ecology affected, farming, industry, drinking waters, aquifers, ...

     

    Just building the dams and putting them to work had effects that were quite large, I hate to think what it might be if we aborted the natural flows even further on downstream.

     

    HardToLove
    30 Sep 2012, 08:36 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (661) | Send Message
     
    IIRC the first test of the power cube with Viridity was being conducted at the same time as a water pumping alternative. Where available the water pumping will probably be much more economical than batteries. It would probably be able to produce much more massive storage possibilities with existing hydro-electric power plants. The battery solution seems to be better at rapid response power smoothing and providing storage where no water pumping is available.
    30 Sep 2012, 08:43 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30642) | Send Message
     
    The pumping project you're thinking about was a sewage treatment plant that had enough flexibility to vary it's pump speeds and throughput rates to become a frequency regulation provider. It's a very good application and probably cheaper than batteries, but it's not exactly scaleable or useful in other kinds of installations.
    30 Sep 2012, 10:00 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Basically intelligent load shedding.

     

    Or in Viridity terms "NegaWatts.

     

    I agree. Once you have control it's a great idea vs peaker plant capacity.
    30 Sep 2012, 10:32 AM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (8934) | Send Message
     
    alsobirdman, there are a number of wind farms in upstate NY
    http://bit.ly/P47kbr
    30 Sep 2012, 10:54 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (661) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the correction John. I was thinking that it was a more standard pumping back uphill like hydro-electric generation.
    30 Sep 2012, 03:04 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    HTC - the limiting overall net-net flow rate would probably be dictated by maintaining some flow into the ocean. Between each dam are basically pools of water reaching typically from the downstream dam back toward the upstream dam within "short" distances. So the first determination would be how much final flow do we want to dump into the ocean, or to keep ocean-going ship navigation possible. Anything above those or the like are wasted water and candidate water for recharging.

     

    The BPA said they would get back to me. Have not heard a thing.

     

    Regarding natural flows, the dams actually regulate the natural flow preventing floods and/or dryness over the years. Unfortunately, the average water level is higher than the earlier minimum and lower than the previous maximums, and the old fish ladders and cemeteries and a few towns are underneath today's average level. Always +/-'s to contend with; hopefully, no surprises, or at least minimized.
    30 Sep 2012, 08:10 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    I seem to remember that upstate NY and/or one of the Canadian hydros participated in some sort of dynamic stored energy project with a wind power installation.
    30 Sep 2012, 08:14 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Thanks NJB.

     

    HardToLove
    30 Sep 2012, 08:30 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13565) | Send Message
     
    Well, the thought that $.275 might represent some support is out. Next stop, $.25. This would seem to be pricing in another 30 million dilution shares...
    27 Sep 2012, 12:48 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    Trip: Down at these pricing levels, there's no doubt in my mind that if Axion lands an OEM, or gets just a few deals with Viridity, or the DOD, or Norfolk, we're looking at one of the fastest 1000% pops in the history of industrial investments.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:01 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Cowabunga Dude!

     

    http://bit.ly/UO7Qvu

     

    No, I don't know what it means, so if I swore at you it was not my intent! :))
    27 Sep 2012, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    iindelco: LMAO!
    27 Sep 2012, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    From my youth, a term mostly used by surfers when things are great, great surfing conditions, somebody did a great "Hang 10", etc - surprised.

     

    http://bit.ly/Qrkr5o

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 01:12 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Thanks HTL.

     

    Phew! Dodged a bullet on that one! For all I knew I could have been telling TB he had an ugly shell and Maya was laughing at me for getting in trouble again.

     

    PS Sure looks like we want to test the lows again. Maybe Mr. Enders Dickinson better quit presenting. Or maybe if he just tells them PbC doesn't work it'll go up?
    27 Sep 2012, 01:38 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13565) | Send Message
     
    I don't see this conference impacting the current share price much if at all. Those presentations and white papers will have an effect down the line, perhaps next year (or the next, particularly when talking automotive model years).
    27 Sep 2012, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    maybe 100% - 300%; 1000% is probably starry-eyed also. But, any up would be good, because it might have a reason.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    Naked: Starry-eyed, perhaps. A 400% pop wouldn't even get us back to last year's high, which in part was generated by a mere $25,000 DOD order.

     

    We're getting down to only several million shares left for the deep pockets to sell. Most of us Axionistas are what JP coined, "elephant hunters."

     

    Nobody knows what the inflection point will be, or when it will happen. Several of us are tracking closely with as informed as possible guestimations of how many shares the deep pockets have left to sell. Once the selling is done, we should begin a melt up. A BIG dose of BIG news and the stock could indeed pop significantly.

     

    We saw a double last year do, again in part, to a very small DOD order. I have written to JP as well as posted here that I expect to sell 1/7th of my position in the mid 90 cent range. JP emailed me that if the stock is blasting off upwards, it may happen so fast that I wouldn't have a chance to get the sell order in before Axion was well over a buck.

     

    I've seen this happen before, back when I was actively day trading. Remember the DangDang IPO? Or what just happened with Arena Pharm?

     

    When we're all grousing about today's dungeon price, as well as the past icky three month chart, it's fun to still believe we'll be -- my guess is by next April -- all back slapping and be howlingly happy.

     

    Over the span of a month or two, a 1000% pop is certainly within the realm of feasible possibilities.

     

    Sigh...ooooh the dream!
    27 Sep 2012, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1264) | Send Message
     
    while i agree that axpw is bottoming, if we don't break 30 cents by friday, we likely play around at 25 cents before we move up with authority. like Jon Springer said, more buyers at higher prices but the sellers do not care.
    27 Sep 2012, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    maya - i also have been dreaming just as you put into words; what I'd like to see is the reason or cause for a rise in stock price; the stock price will do what it does with a cause (and as it is, with no cause - other than the supply of stock; but, even in the absence of supply, no cause is like treading water and going nowhere except for not going down).
    27 Sep 2012, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    Well, the 'catch the falling knife' approach sure hasn't worked as a strategy so far over the last couple years. And if that wasn't enough, we're nearing a downward spiral in price per share, IMO. The blog's mood yesterday tells me that several posters and thus probably many more lurkers are seriously considering selling down their exposure, if not outright bailing. And it's only natural for some of the 35 cents placement holders to be considering the same thing, and together those groups own a LOT of shares.

     

    At a minimum, without big news outta the company soon, I think we retest the all-time low of 25 cents. From there, I don't know. I suppose a critical price is 15 cents, because Axion would need to sell all of the remaining authorized shares to raise about $10 million (another year's cash needs at the current burn rate) at that price. Hoping that a strategic investor would not require a discount, as the company can trade, say, certain mkt exclusivities for price.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:00 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4084) | Send Message
     
    I don't agree with that Mr. I... yet.

     

    I think the bottom fishers and loyal holders are the elephants in the room at this point.

     

    The thing of it is, if the sellers show a willingness to go lower (and they have), the bottom fishers are going to hold aside cash for lower prices.

     

    The big disconnects to me, on the selling side are:

     

    (1) that the fools selling don't realize there's bigger buying demand at 50 cents and up than than there is at these prices.

     

    (2) that the fools selling don't understand that the bottom fishers here are really disciplined and will not push the price up without an attempt to drag it down to feast on even cheaper prices.

     

    In any case... the month ends tomorrow. Patience... and best wishes to all you bottom fishers and loyal holders out there.

     

    Vive L'Axionistas!
    27 Sep 2012, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    Does this (mr. i) sound like the big guys "punishing"?
    27 Sep 2012, 01:55 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    City of San Diego Unveils Microgrid System based on Princeton Power Technology

     

    http://bit.ly/QrlthM

     

    "consisting of two (2) PPS 100 kW Grid-tied Inverters (GTIBs), a 100 kWh lithium-ion battery module, and the balance of components including a weatherproof enclosure and various disconnects and conduit, collects power from a 30 kW solar array to store in the batteries, and serves the facility loads through a seamless transition from grid power to battery power."
    27 Sep 2012, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    What's happening in Paris?
    27 Sep 2012, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Do't know if this was posted before. Looks like Axion is presenting in San Diego CA in October.

     

    FullPower, Inc. Announces Speakers for Third Annual Advanced Energy Solutions 2012 Conference

     

    http://bit.ly/STgDX4
    27 Sep 2012, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Either Axion is presenting a heck of a lot more than they used to or we are getting better at finding out about when they do...
    27 Sep 2012, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Tim, If you wanna find a mate you gotta strut yer stuff.
    27 Sep 2012, 02:54 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2855) | Send Message
     
    One could ask "what good are the Conference presentations" especially if nothing new is presented?

     

    The Paris show provided audience and presenters surrounding if not focused on our interests; and nothings happened for a reason: NO REASON.

     

    So, if nothing new is going to be brought to a Conference, save the presenters monies, stay at home, and develop a good REASON.

     

    Best I know, September has provided two excellent opportunities - nothing. Octobers? Unless ........... waste of monies for some; perks for some. Nothing for us'n's. Well, except for the TA guys: they don't need REASONS, just movement.<:={)))))
    27 Sep 2012, 05:28 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    Just placed a buy order at 25 cents. Come to daddy but*head.
    27 Sep 2012, 02:43 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1927) | Send Message
     
    I like your attitude...but if you get that filled I am going to lose my cool.

     

    ####
    I tend to think this is the MM's cleaning up their slop from Monday and Tuesday.
    27 Sep 2012, 02:50 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    I think it's retail. My TD Ameritrade orders go thru CDEL now (no idea why it switched from ATDF), and they've been on the ask a lot today. Small blocks today, too. I think a couple of folks had had enough and sold off some of what they had.

     

    The scary part is what happens if 25 fails. Will drag in a lot more selling and maybe give us another YE 2011. Catfish heaven.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:05 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    Just broke thru 27 cents. Canceled my 25 cent buy order. Hard to see where this might end. Between this blog and JP's efforts, a lot of the low-hanging penny stock investor demand has been tapped already, which wasn't the case late last year. Yep, we are a lot closer to big boy selling exhaustion, except now we and the 35 cents deal people are the big boys and we're only human, with the emotional flaws that entails. Selling begets selling in a news vacuum.

     

    But then again, maybe this is the capitulation low, but sure doesn't look like it to me.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:28 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4084) | Send Message
     
    MrI?

     

    Getting closer to your 25 cent order caused you to cancel the order?

     

    You expecting 15 now?
    27 Sep 2012, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4084) | Send Message
     
    To my way of thinking, once the share price dropped below .275, there were only two options:
    - a quick recovery above .28
    - a rapid drop below .26 to retest the .25 low

     

    I just don't believe there are many people in this room that will be buyers between .259 and .275 on the way down. Maybe on the way up, but once the MM and sellers decided to chase down below .275, they made their bed.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Jon: close was just above the falling support from which I had thought it was trying to move up and away. As best as my old eyes can tell, the support is $0.269 (might be +/- a pixel or two).

     

    A small overshoot, such as today's is not at all uncommon if a bottom is being put in, especially if the volume is high(er). Today qualifies I think.

     

    Anyway, in traditional TA, it's the close that carries the weight. Yesterday had enough volume I wondered if it was "the spike" signalling end of trend is near. Couldn't say yes or no because it wasn't that big a "spike".

     

    Adding today's action, maybe we are there.

     

    I will concede now that $0.42 wasn't as good a price as I thought it would be.

     

    "Cluebat slap": when a stock is broken, it's broken. I'm glad the company is *not* broken though.

     

    Anyway, don't be surprised if pps rebounds tomorrow or Monday *if* it stays (mostly?) >= $0.27 tomorrow.

     

    But normally these bottoms are made with some days of reducing volume, so down is entirely reasonable too.

     

    Pretend I just linked Vinny Barbarino again saying "I'm so confused"!

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 04:15 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1264) | Send Message
     
    Mrl got shook.

     

    My cats are snoring, AXPW share price is flooring.

     

    We did what, 2mill @ 27 monday and tuesday with huge selling. i'd expect that many shares to get traded at 25 cents too.
    27 Sep 2012, 04:35 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Mathieu: Mon + Tue was roughly 1.35MM, VWAP $0.278.

     

    Wed and today roughly ~878K.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 05:01 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Clarification Mathieu: $0.278 was Tue, Mon was $0.2824.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 05:14 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    A lot of candor here. Since the '08-09 bottom in the market, AXPW has spiked twice and once, in early 2011, teased us with a volume-supported rally. I thought that was the start of something big, to be honest. Since then I've averaged down a half dozen times.

     

    That's six times I should have waited, but thought I saw something or heard something or read something worthy of the further investment.
    So now, I'm waiting for 0.15, then I may take more - I'm in a Roth account with my AXPW, no honorable surrender on this position for me. I don't understand why the stock sells and the batteries don't. And they are even better batteries than ever. And we can make them better and faster.
    So I'll echo H.T.L.'s confusion. And continue to believe that TGs upbeat mood was due to more than just a tingly leg.
    Back to the stock story: Looking again at last year, slow and steady selling all year, then selling ramped up in October. Stock price halved in the last quarter. This year? Selling all year except for 1st quarter, ramping up slowly since mid-year. Will we see selling ramp up again in October? If so, IMO, we could see shares available for half what we can get them at today. Like I said, I'm waiting for 0.15.
    27 Sep 2012, 05:44 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    More information on the Mazda energy recuperation system (i-ELOOP & i-stop).

     

    At least they are telling us what we already know.

     

    "Mazda’s engineers determined that a typical vehicle deceleration phase lasts only about 10 seconds. Realizing that the effectiveness of regenerative braking to date has been limited by the charging and storage drawbacks of conventional lead-acid starter batteries,..."

     

    "Mazda6 diesel sedan offers up to 60 mpg US"

     

    http://bit.ly/UOxTTw
    27 Sep 2012, 02:43 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    Related:

     

    "Mazda using wind turbine Electric Double Layer Capacitors to improve fuel efficiency"

     

    http://aol.it/NTGKQK
    27 Sep 2012, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1783) | Send Message
     
    Now just tell them to stick it on the Mazda5 for all of us who have multiple children and car seats to lug around.
    28 Sep 2012, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • nummik
    , contributor
    Comments (69) | Send Message
     
    As it broke through I would not recommend buying more just because one has once decided it is an interesting company (some 10, 100 or 1000% higher), that is a good way to loose ones sleep. I am sure many of the recent followers that took too large a bite are nervous or bailed, I would have, had I not respected my planned limit.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:48 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4807) | Send Message
     
    I can't remember the last time AXPW was up $0.01 or maybe I left out a few zeros. Bail or no bail, I find it hard to believe anyone bought in recently and is now desperate to take a loss.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:54 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    I took a large bite and am not nervous and have not bailed. We have been here before and lived to tell about it..

     

    Edit: sorry, just getting a little tired of the whining that's going on today (old school I guess).
    27 Sep 2012, 03:56 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    I added a couple small trading blocks today.

     

    "No fear"! ... (or good judgement?)

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 04:17 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4084) | Send Message
     
    Well done HTL. We'll see what tomorrow brings... and more interestingly, what next week brings once this quarter is done for.
    27 Sep 2012, 04:19 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Jon: I'll tell ya', this action is enough to try my patience... I know I had some here in one of these pockets ... Ah! Gee, not as much left as last time I looked!

     

    <Assume lotus position ... "ooom, ooom, ...">

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Drich: 8/22-8/23 VWAPs 0.3046->0.3172.

     

    Not a lot, but better than nada con nachos!

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 05:17 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Tim: I hear ya! But we do have to remember that we are many different types of folks here and stoicism is not a universal trait while ... (pretend I did ALL CAPS) yer guts are being ripped out by those rotten no good bas**rds that keep this terrific little *speculative* stock stuck in the down slide and ... ;-))

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    HTL, of course but its not like I don't feel it as well. I am sorry for my cranky moment nummik...
    27 Sep 2012, 08:02 PM Reply Like
  • nummik
    , contributor
    Comments (69) | Send Message
     
    Thank you for supplying me with a personal attitude.

     

    I just reflected on the "unease" - even from true spirited Axionistas - that came through in a number of posts to contrast it with buying without plan and without an overall risk assessment.
    28 Sep 2012, 01:41 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (2079) | Send Message
     
    While the price is a heartbreaker, we should really be talking about the strategic investor! That is one variable that would wipe away any remaining seller. We would likely churn the entire float once news like that hits. Just like in NEXS.

     

    I don't know about this process or when it will happen, so I'm just holding what I'm comfortable with. This way I don't wake up without shares when AXPW gaps up with 2x or 3x gains.

     

    Unless you think "strategic investor" is really code for "we're out of options here", then there is no reason to worry at this point. I doubt it though, given our tech and zero debt.

     

    We should recall Axion has been hiring employees this month. They wouldn't be increasing their cash burn if there aren't potential deals looming.
    27 Sep 2012, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    Good plan. Which strategic investor should we start talking about? Can we get a list together and break into focus groups?

     

    Just wait - we'll all be laughing at these days somewhere down the line.
    27 Sep 2012, 05:57 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    Edmund, Edmund, Edmund, ...

     

    "Just wait ..."

     

    You're kidding, right?! ;-))

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 06:31 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    or was I kidding about the laughing part?
    27 Sep 2012, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Ranma, Still trying to figure out who this might be. Maybe TG will have to rethink the overseas path. Maybe the emerging markets would give this more respect.

     

    The US can keep pissing its money down the lithium ion EV rat hole.

     

    Sorry, I know some hate when I bring this up on occasion.

     

    http://bit.ly/J4gVHX
    27 Sep 2012, 09:46 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4807) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... Regrettably, it is an option and better than just selling out or being waited into bankruptcy. It, the PbC, is a Russian invention and maybe they could put it to use. All the angst with Axion could be moot with either an "angel" investor or one of these testing customer step up or at least step out of the shadows.

     

    Anyway, I'd be very disappointed to see Axion go to such extremes or disappear. I am confident that the technology will be put into service Who is going to own it still looks to be an open question.
    27 Sep 2012, 10:21 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    DRich, We're on the same page.

     

    I do have to wonder though that if the technology is mature enough why couldn't they go this route and split up geographic sectors. Just like with the Ultrabattery.. Would it not be an option to sell the product/process tech and manufacturing rights for say Russia or India for capital to get commercialized in the states? For the current stock holders it beats floating 40 million shares at 20 centavos.

     

    Your thoughts on this route?
    27 Sep 2012, 10:49 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4807) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... Distribution into regional segments has always been the basis of the business plan. I don't see any reason that doing something like selling a 40% stake in the company with a Russian fab thrown in is out of bounds. Now moving the entire company is a little extreme. I'm kind of hoping that the partner were to turn out to be Toyota and they were given a deal similar to what TG was ranting about in 2010. I'd also like East Penn to be the manufacturing partner. These two partnerships would turn angst to reasoned euphoria.

     

    If we're talking desperation, Axion does have 2, maybe 3, years of running room if they were to mortgage the company. That could only happen if the core had that much faith they could get the job done.
    28 Sep 2012, 12:21 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Looks like more than just Texas Axionistas are watching the NS-nein nein nein. Well, at least they are still working on i............ZZzzzZZZZ...

     

    Railroad Sustainability Symposium Highlights Environmental Opportunities For Rail Sector

     

    http://bit.ly/Qs1pMe
    27 Sep 2012, 04:24 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (661) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the link Iindelco. Some interesting comments below from the article about the NS 999. I have been unable to find more with internet searches.

     

    The symposium covered a wide range of topics including new locomotive technology, sustainability measurement, and land restoration efforts. Perhaps most relevant to clean air issues in environmental hotspots was an update on the NS 999, an electric switcher locomotive prototype first rolled out in 2009 by Norfolk Southern. This locomotive was designed with the express purpose of serving rail yards, an area with high traffic density and idling rates, as well as harmful emissions.

     

    The NS 999 emits no pollutants from combustion and would be most impactful in reducing harmful criteria pollutants which threaten public health. Efforts to continue testing and developing the locomotive are ongoing, but the NS 999 represents a significant effort to address emissions at some of the most critical junctures of the supply chain.
    27 Sep 2012, 04:41 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    jveal, It is nice to at least get confirmation that the program is still a go. Need to look a little more to see if I can find something on the presentation.

     

    Of coarse, as has been pointed out by Deamiter, this might just be a cover up article to throw me off the path of what's really going on!
    27 Sep 2012, 05:09 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (811) | Send Message
     
    jveal

     

    I just sent an email to the author of the article asking him if he had substantiated evidence that the 999 is currently being worked on. I will let you know if I receive a response.

     

    357
    27 Sep 2012, 05:29 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4807) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... Thanks. I'd overlooked that article so I decided to make a comment on it (presently in for moderation). Maybe they'll publish it.

     

    Update: Yea! They published my comment (complete with typos & bad punctuation)
    27 Sep 2012, 05:32 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    You guys are good! Thanks!
    27 Sep 2012, 05:48 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (661) | Send Message
     
    RBrun357, Thanks.
    27 Sep 2012, 05:59 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30642) | Send Message
     
    Late news from Paris.

     

    I spent some time at the conference dinner tonight talking with the CEO of East Penn and mentioned in passing that I'd seen a lot of work from them on mild hybrids and grid storage but nothing on micro-hybrids. She explained that they'd had surprisingly fast success with the Ultrabattery on their large two-volt cells for stationary storage and were only working on mild hybrids in automotive for now.

     

    She didn't foreclose the possibility that they might enter the micro hybrid fray in the future, but suggested that their plate was pretty full on other applications and micro-hybrids weren't a high priority for them.

     

    For the foreseeable future it looks like the two choices in micro-hybrid will be PbC vs. AGM.
    27 Sep 2012, 06:08 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    Obvious choice, IMO.
    27 Sep 2012, 06:19 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    John, Thanks.

     

    I've seen a couple other LAB suppliers pushing individual cell packs for solar storage. All I could think was that this was to allow individual cells to be equalized vs having x number in a common case with a single output..

     

    Two things.

     

    - Do you have any knowledge on why 2 V cells are of interest for solar?. Is this in fact for equalization in LABs?

     

    - Does the East Penn Ultrabattery equalize well like the PbC? If it did, and I'm correct in my thoughts on 2V cells for solar, it seems strange that there is interest in single cell Ultrabatteries.
    27 Sep 2012, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3170) | Send Message
     
    Good to hear.

     

    On the other hand, cross them off the strategic investor list for now? I think some folks here were hoping they might be a US manufacturing partner, given their history with Axion.
    27 Sep 2012, 07:06 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4363) | Send Message
     
    "...were only working on mild hybrids in automotive for now. "

     

    Am I confusing labels here, or does 'micro hybrid' refer to S/S with 'mild hybrid' refer to S/S extended to include coasting time before breaking for stop. If I my understanding of terms is correct, ISTM the PbC would be particularly well suited for 'mild hybrid' applications and less so for 'micro hybrid' S/S. That makes me think East Penn is a strong Axion competitor in the 'mild hybrid' market which seems to me likely to become far larger than the 'micro hybrid' market.
    27 Sep 2012, 07:36 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    D-inv, micro-hybrid= Stop/Start but there are levels within the micro-hybrid category. The entry level will be served by AGM (at least to start with) and we have thought this for some time. The heavy micro will need something significantly more and this is where we believe the PbC will play. The mild hybrid has an energy requirement that the current PbC is not suited for.
    27 Sep 2012, 07:57 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    I would also like to add that the heavy mico has not really been defined yet and this is why I believe Axion is still very much in the game. I believe it is just our production numbers that keep us on the sidelines. The NS order gave us the opportunity to see what these numbers look like. I am hoping they are good and that TG will share them soon...
    27 Sep 2012, 08:18 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2962) | Send Message
     
    iidelco

     

    Really big LA systems often work with massive 2v cells. Think major computing centers, each cell weighing hundreds of pounds. When a cell goes bad, it can be replaced individually. Many are linked in series to get to 400 or 480 volts, 3 phase.

     

    Solar often has to work with very deep discharge. Equalization can be done individually if necessary, or replaced individually.

     

    Both applications are dozens to thousands of cells. These types of systems generally are not suitable for motive power - too heavy, too fragile, too bulky for cabling.
    28 Sep 2012, 02:59 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30642) | Send Message
     
    In their presentation this morning, East Penn showed interior photos of their New Mexico installation that was done entirely in huge 2 volt cells that would easily tip the scales at a couple hundred pounds.

     

    In the presentation, they did show that their cells tended to self-equalize over time like the PbC does, but they didn't get into any detail on the speed of equalization. From the shape of the graphs I got the sense that the process did not happen quickly, but it did happen. So we probably have a Prince of Strings out there too.
    28 Sep 2012, 03:06 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Rick, Thanks.

     

    It does make sense but the construction would obviously be foreign to me. Just regarding how all the plates are connected in the package to make a couple hundred pound single cell battery. Just interesting.
    28 Sep 2012, 06:28 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (798) | Send Message
     
    Another horse who retires: Ultrabattery
    Everything indicates that the Derby (Start-Stop) will be run with a single horse. (AXION PbC Tech.)
    Paciencia mis amigos.
    Carlos.
    27 Sep 2012, 06:21 PM Reply Like
  • tonys23
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    Sorry for "off topic" but has anyone an opinion on an "analyst" named GEO Team?
    27 Sep 2012, 06:22 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Tony, I know little of them other than they were prevalent in going after Chinese companies I followed a few years back. Didn't read much on them but my guess was that they liked to take short positions and then attack the company in the mass market public domain. It appears to be a very lucrative strategy. Kind of like a Muddy Waters.

     

    Again, not well read on them though, just an impression.
    27 Sep 2012, 08:23 PM Reply Like
  • tonys23
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, iindelco. My take too as their current target seems to be KNDI.
    28 Sep 2012, 10:29 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10254) | Send Message
     
    Tony, lo siento mucho. Good luck.
    29 Sep 2012, 12:21 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18517) | Send Message
     
    9/27/2012: AXPW EOD stuff partly copied instablog (to be updated later)
    # Trds: 87, MinTrSz: 100, MaxTrSz: 27900, Vol 498773, AvTrSz: 5733
    Min. Pr: 0.2650, Max Pr: 0.2840, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2734
    # Buys, Shares: 28 121480, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2735
    # Sells, Shares: 59 377293, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2734
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell, 1:3.11 (24.4% “buys”), DlyShts 34858 (7%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 9.24%

     

    Isn't it interesting how close the total short volumes for the prior three days, ~463K, plus today's short volume comes so close to our total daily volume?

     

    In short form, combined volume, buy:sell and low short sales suggests that the high short sales percentage (and ~440K absolute shares) from the prior two days flowed into market-maker hands at a low price and they sold. The ~$0.015 cent spread the prior two days gave ample room for “covering buys” and Citadel, one of the larger MMs in the market and which has been a new entrant at the “top of the heap” the last couple days, has been in competition to unload with ATDF, FANC, etc. I believe that answers my question from yesterday about “would they let them clear at DTCC or not”.

     

    Our “short spike" from yesterday obviously held and continues the trend of lower spikes in this metric. In spite of appearances, volatility is apparently leaving this metric. Average trade size hanging right in there – essentially steady-to-up, slightly, over the last month, in the “retail” range I think.

     

    On the traditional TA front, the close held slightly above the falling trend support, which appears to be $0.269. The intra-day penetration is not worrisome if we are in a bottoming process, which may have been suggested by yesterday's possible volume “spike” (although it was marginal in that assessment). With today's volume, the slight penetration of that support and the recovery of price above that line later in the day on reasonable volume ... Let me regress here.

     

    Total shares traded below $0.27 were only 11 trades, 32,801 shares, just 6.6% of the day's volume and somewhat similar to the short sales percentage and volume for today. VWAP for these trades were $0.2680. So I'm hopeful that this penetration of that line was nothing more than an overshoot.

     

    Sans these few shares our VWAP was $0.2738, around a ha'-penny above the line mate!

     

    Interesting, but significance unknown, is that “Dly Sht % of 'sells' 9.24%” yields 34,862, quite near those sub-$0.27 shares' volume. Throw in one of the day's 2K trades, or smaller ones combined, slightly above that price and we have a match.

     

    From this we can surmise that all the day's sub-$0.27 trades were sellers scared out of their wits coming in while the market-makers, who were apparently long shares, coolly collected additional profits on shares flowing into their portfolios from prior sell orders.

     

    The rest of the ““Dly Sht % of 'sells' %” stuff has been omitted from the concentrator.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Sep 2012, 06:43 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1927) | Send Message
     
    From your last few posts on this stuff and your t+3 on the shorts I think you got your fingers on the pulse, boy!
    27 Sep 2012, 07:06 PM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (228) | Send Message
     
    Maybe it is worth reflecting upon what is materially different from the last time these lows were reached circa 9 months ago:

     

    (i) Financing.
    In both cases, financing a pressing issue. Most shareholders were shocked at the 35 cent valuation in the last round. Market remains difficult. Unless the strategic white knight arrives it will be another down round. Absent good news, 20 cents would be disappointing, but would not be startling. The clock on a 3-month trailing average will start about now.

     

    Relative sentiment: Down

     

    (ii) Supply and Demand
    Selling pressure then, selling pressure now (duh). Is another inversion imminent?
    Critically, nothing has happened to trigger additional demand and higher valuations.

     

    (iii) The Cube
    Then: The surprise news of the grand opening of the Cube was still fresh in our minds, and the promise of that as a near-term revenue generating product.
    Now: No cube sales. Delays with FERC payment model may push this product to the mid-term horizon.

     

    Relative sentiment: Down

     

    (iv) Rail:
    Then: Delays on a promised Q3/Q4 battery order from NS.
    Now: An order received 5 months ago, but no batteries yet delivered, as far as we know. NS, with falling revenues, facing headwinds. Future of its battery based initiatives becoming a cause for concern.

     

    Relative sentiment: Same

     

    (v) Auto:
    Then: Lab testing with BMW ongoing. Battery performing well. 24 month expected timeline. Rumors of an additional large auto testing partner.
    Now: BMW final lab testing with third party ongoing. Suggestion of fleet-testing by end Q1, 2013.
    GM revealed as testing partner, but grant not funded.
    Large Asian testing partner and misc. other testing partners mentioned.
    Internal SBIR grant funded.

     

    Relative sentiment: UP. Progress has been made

     

    (vi) Rosewater
    Then: A rumor incubating.
    Now: Seemingly excellent but pricey hub product presented to the world. UL certification awaited before sales. Magnitude of market unclear, cash flow return to Axion unclear.
    Oil rigs still a viable market?

     

    Relative sentiment: UP. A product hits the market.

     

    Just my ramblings, but overall a mixed bag, with some clear progress shown, yet also some disappointing delays. Does it all justify a return to the 20-something range?
    27 Sep 2012, 09:06 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10778) | Send Message
     
    anthlj: First of all, what the heck does your handle mean; short for Another Lengthy Journey? ;-)

     

    That's a pretty solid surmise you wrote. One of the things I would add is that someone(s) have bought $660K of PbCs this year.

     

    Betting that figure mostly applies to your point "v."
    28 Sep 2012, 12:27 AM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2660) | Send Message
     
    On point commentary anthlj ...
    28 Sep 2012, 01:37 AM Reply Like
  • Bylo-
    , contributor
    Comments (425) | Send Message
     
    Excellent summation. Thank you.
    28 Sep 2012, 12:02 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30642) | Send Message
     
    It might have been a good summation if it wasn't so transparently and obviously the musings of a worry troll.

     

    Financing – Axion used a 30-day moving average price in February but anything longer would be an absurdity. The money is not needed now and won't be until the first quarter of next year. Management has absolutely no reason to go searching for funding today when there are so many irons in the fire. Please quit trying to create urgency when there is none.

     

    Supply and demand – The issue is not and has never been triggering additional demand. It's been eating through the last few shares remaining in the hands of apparently willing sellers.

     

    The PowerCube is being actively marketed and the fact that there's been no word of sales say nothing about progress in the pipeline. My discussions with Rosewater indicate that the CEDIA response to the HUB has been beyond their wildest dreams.

     

    No batteries were delivered as of the last conference call. There is no reason to believe that the batteries remain undelivered. WTB did just find news of a brand new grant to NS that will be used at Penn State and in New Castle. If you know there's a grant coming for the OTR locomotive, a wise man never jumps the gun.

     

    Automotive – BMW has finished testing the PbC and liked the results well enough to send them for third party confirmation. A major automaker liked the BMW results well enough to put the PbC on a six month fast track confirmation test protocol. There is nothing but outstanding progress in automotive and suggestions to the contrary are unadulterated nonsense.

     

    Your ramblings invariably put the worst possible spin on every issue. If you'd occasionally had a positive thought your worry troll status would be far less clear.

     

    At this point I have no interest in reading your drivel any more than I did when your name was OMY and StrangerThings.
    28 Sep 2012, 03:18 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (3633) | Send Message
     
    "The clock on a 3-month trailing average will start about now."

     

    This is a curious statement as the last financing was done at a "price...pre-determined by calculating a 10% discount to market using the Company's volume weighted average price for the trailing 40 day period (VWAP)."

     

    Are you suggesting that we will raise money around Xmas this year... To me that seems unlikely.
    28 Sep 2012, 04:24 PM Reply Like