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  • Axion Power Concentrator 175: Nov. 15, Axion SAE Truck APU Application Presentation; Rosewater & Queens Univ. Partner On Distributed Energy Study; Q3 '12 Earnings & CC & Webcast; 13th ELBC: Axion's "Operatio 285 comments
    Nov 14, 2012 5:49 PM | about stocks: AXPW

    John Petersen was able to obtain and post a copy of Axion's SAE 10/2/2012 Truck APU Application power-point presentation. Many thanks to him for his continued contributions. We see even more cycles applied to the (apparently modified?) PbC # 2 in their testing showing even greater capability.

    On 11/11/2012 there was an announcement that RoseWater joins Queen's University on Energy Storage Study "... to conduct a study to evaluate the impact of a widely-distributed energy storage system backed by RoseWater's Residential Energy Storage Hub on an electrical grid". "... The results of the study, which is already underway, will greatly benefit all companies and individuals involved in energy supply, distribution and consumption, including policy makers, regulators, electric utilities, and storage systems manufacturers". Other information makes it worth a read. Look under the November 2012 releases if you come late to the party.

    On 11/7/2012 Axion Announces Date Of Its Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release, Conference Call And Webcast, which details release of results before-market 11/15/2012 and a conference call at 11:00 am ET. Interested parties should call 877-317-6789 (domestic) or 412-317-6789 (international), to access the call. You can listen to the conference call live via the Internet. Bangwhiz will be hosting a concentrator for questions for the conference call. Watch the comments section for a link.

    John Petersen's participation as a presenter at the 13th European Lead Battery Conference, ELBC, has provided additional benefits: he has posted, a brief instablog that identifies slides with information and data he'd not seen before and considers important in Axion's presentation, "Axion PbC Lead-Carbon Hybrid Battery/Supercapacitor ,Operational Stability of PbC Batteries and Battery Systems", to which he has provided a link.

    John did a bang-up job on his presentation, in our opinion, and has graciously permitted us to link to a SlideRocket Version of his presentation. It is highly recommended that you take the time, around 20 minutes, to view this if you've not seen it. It is not focused on Axion, but presents some opportunities and challenges facing the LA battery industry at-large.

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    John Petersen has provided price and volume charts updated through 11/9/2012.

    (click to enlarge)AXPW Weighted Moving Average Price 20121109

    (click to enlarge)AXPW Moving Average Volume 20121109

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    John's Petersen's tracking of the APC comment activity has been updated through 11/9/2012. Up to 34,465 comments now.APC Concentrator Comments 20121109---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Links to valuable Axion Power research and websites:

    The Axion Power Concentrator Web Sites, created by APC commentator Bangwhiz. It is a complete easy-to-use online archive of all the information contained in the entire Axion Power Concentrator series from day one, including reports, articles, comments and posted links.

    Axion Power Wikispaces Web Site, created by APC commentator WDD. It is an excellent ongoing notebook aggregation of Axion Power facts.

    Axion Power Website. The first place any prospective investor should go and thoroughly explore with all SEC filings and investor presentations as well as past and present Press Releases.

    Axion Power Intra-day Statistics. HTL tracks and charts AXPW's intra-day statistics.
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    Be sure and either follow the Axion Power Host ID on Seeking Alpha or click the check-box labeled "track new comments on this article" just ahead of the comments section!
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    WARNING: This is a troll free zone. We reserve the right to eliminate posts, or posters that are disruptive.

    Enjoy!

    Disclosure: I am long AXPW.

    Stocks: AXPW
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Comments (285)
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  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (3684) | Send Message
     
    I'm here.. Uno?
    14 Nov 2012, 05:51 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (3818) | Send Message
     
    close
    14 Nov 2012, 05:51 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (3818) | Send Message
     
    if I wasn't editing my picture show the 999 in the shop, I would have got the ring
    14 Nov 2012, 05:52 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Future electric car may be one big battery (cool video):

     

    http://bit.ly/XGwFuY
    14 Nov 2012, 06:06 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    AONE auction to occur on Dec. 6th. Johnson Controls, Seimens, NEC and Wanxiang Group will be the bidders:

     

    http://bit.ly/XGx6oQ
    14 Nov 2012, 06:09 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    A123 had $388 million of debt at June 30th and $494 million of assets, including $101 million of grants that may go away in the bankruptcy. By the time you figure in $75 million in Q3 losses, another $75 million in Chapter 11 operating costs, another $?? million in administrative costs and lawyers fees and heaven knows what else, I fear the buyers who paid $.09 a share yesterday will find themselves holding an empty bag.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:33 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    JP: Funny thing is that some Andy Worhal "Statue of Liberty" original, a Jackson Pollack mad-dash painting scribble-dribble, and maybe throw in an original Matisse, and also a mint Honus Wagner baseball card, might just fetch more than what Wanxiang Group will buy AONE's assets and US taxpayer subsidized IP rights.

     

    Joking aside...this could just be the largest bankrupt corporate auction ever. I would love to bear witness.

     

    ####

     

    Happy Birthday to Jon Spinger...and myself. My B-Day wish is that AXPW brings all of us Axionistas great cheer today.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:31 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    Happy b-day Maya and Jon. We can hope your wish comes true. I sure could use some good news.
    15 Nov 2012, 02:07 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Since my birthday was the 12th, a day that will live in infamy, I hope you and Jon will have a better time.
    15 Nov 2012, 02:10 AM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (3684) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, a few cages got rattled on Monday's dip toward 20 cents. I sure hope that "infamy" is constrained. The only fireworks we need tomorrow involves new PbC sales and NS/BMW timelines. I'd love to never have to see a sub 30 cents pps again. Can we be so lucky you think?
    15 Nov 2012, 04:59 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    baz (too many o's to count on small screen) ka,
    I put some new mojo in place after market close on Monday so you can say goodbye to sub .30's: That is until sellers drive the price down again.
    15 Nov 2012, 05:19 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    If I keep telling myself it'll work pretty soon even I'll believe it. Sounds like the Cheeseman commith.

     

    Excide working on a stronger car battery to meet the demands of start-stop technology

     

    "In a flooded lead-acid battery, it usually takes about one minute of driving to recharge a battery after it has been used to start the engine. This takes longer and longer as the battery ages, and this aging would accelerate greatly with a start-stop system, and in as little as a year the recharge time could reach 10 minutes. This would obviously be a problem for start-stop equipped cars, and Exide estimates that most lead-acid batteries on start-stop equipped cars would need replacing after just six months. With the new AGM batteries, aging would be much slower, and batteries would last from three to five years. They are expected to cost about double what regular batteries cost, but this is still much less than the price would be if the technology had necessitated a switch to lithium-ion or some other more exotic material."

     

    http://bit.ly/X9QMCM
    14 Nov 2012, 06:22 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: someone ought to put them out of their (and our?) misery! Like a horse that has to be put down.

     

    http://bit.ly/PV4vJl

     

    HardToLove

     

    Plagiarism too? "Exide estimates that most lead-acid batteries on start-stop equipped cars would need replacing after just six months". I believe it's more-or-less demonstrated to be the case already.
    14 Nov 2012, 06:28 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    I'd like to see the testing Exide claims that their AGM batt will last 3 to 5 years. I'm umimpressed and not "excided."
    14 Nov 2012, 06:34 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Guys, guys, guys. Exide's gotta get some biz as well. In light of that an olive branch.

     

    http://bit.ly/ZMnrMh
    14 Nov 2012, 07:03 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    My thoughts exactly, Maya.

     

    Thing is, they can say it all they want, good OEMs like BMW know it's a lie.

     

    D
    14 Nov 2012, 09:14 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (3684) | Send Message
     
    It could be that Exide thinks they can skirt the issue in the US and hope that a year or two of SS performance will be good enough to avoid EPA fines and customer backlash.

     

    “he thinks estimates using Europe as a basis for stop/start popularity in the U.S. are inaccurate because future emissions standards between the two are not the same. It remains unclear how strict the penalty might be in the U.S. when an auto maker fails to meet future requirements, he adds, whereas in Europe it will result in fines in the thousands of euros."

     

    http://bit.ly/X9Wzbk
    14 Nov 2012, 06:57 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Exide can't manage their way out of a paper bag.
    14 Nov 2012, 07:09 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    OK guys he's gone! ;))

     

    Now.......

     

    GM Says 100-Mile Battery Range Key Tipping Point for EVs

     

    http://bit.ly/RYEHKt

     

    And then......

     

    Lutz: GM Research Reveals 83% Would Prefer Volt over 100 Mile EV

     

    http://bit.ly/Xa0Ewe

     

    PS Lutz worked at Exide for awhile.
    14 Nov 2012, 07:21 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Exide discontinued their pro-rata warranty on all batteries purchased after October 1, 2012.

     

    The whole warranty program is included in the below link. Do they sense that their AGM batteries in coming stop/start applications will fail before the old one year warranty period?

     

    Don'tcha just love a company that won't stand behind its product?

     

    http://bit.ly/W7P4jH
    14 Nov 2012, 09:48 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    "Note: Exide will be discontinuing Pro-Rata Warranty on batteries shipped from Exide on or after 10/1/2012." In other words "Good Luck sucker." I think Exide's management will be a classic B-school case study in failure one day.
    14 Nov 2012, 11:05 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Good catch Maya, Thanks for sharing.

     

    I think they see the work load on the battery going up and they know their offerings are not up to the task in many instances.
    15 Nov 2012, 06:32 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    I did get a chance to talk with Vani today. It was a short call since he was on his way to a conference call. I will share once we are on the other side of the Axion CC...
    14 Nov 2012, 10:12 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1286) | Send Message
     
    omg tease
    14 Nov 2012, 10:27 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    You are an honorable man Tim!
    14 Nov 2012, 11:07 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    Interesting articles from Bosch and Hella start/stop component suppliers

     

    http://bit.ly/VjMXnU

     

    http://bit.ly/TJL5FQ
    14 Nov 2012, 10:25 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    Stefan: notice the implications of this in the Bosch article?
    "DC/DC converter to guarantee proper voltage for devices such as radio and navigation."

     

    Sounds like a higher-voltage electrical system is in the cards from Bosch or - dast we hope - a PbC.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 05:35 AM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    I noticed another supplier yesterday saying that a switch to 42v or 48v was matter of time ...
    15 Nov 2012, 08:43 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4788) | Send Message
     
    I noticed that "DC/DC converter" item as well, HTL.
    15 Nov 2012, 11:52 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    Axion has acknowledged work with OEM's. I wonder if there is any ongoing testing of the PbC being done by OEM suppliers such as Bosch, Hella, Valeo or Denso. Would like to ask at CC, but won't be able.
    15 Nov 2012, 03:03 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    If the question was asked in precisely that form it might well draw a "yes, but I can't provide any additional color."
    15 Nov 2012, 05:44 AM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    Both Bosch and Valeo were mentioned in the last FOIA grant application as potential partners ...
    15 Nov 2012, 08:43 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    New quarterly report.

     

    http://bit.ly/XI8QD0
    15 Nov 2012, 06:11 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    On April 26 th , Norfolk Southern (“NS”) issued us an order for the first $400,000 of a $475,000 total purchase order order for PbC batteries for use in their initial all electric, battery powered locomotive. While we have not received final confirmation from NS, it is anticipated that the first ‘yard” locomotive will be commissioned in the first quarter of 2013. On a parallel path, development of an “over the road” hybrid locomotive continues. As part of our agreement with NS, Penn State University is performing duplicate string testing on our PbC batteries that so far have confirmed our claims of string “self equalization”. Simply stated, this means that one of the unique characteristics of our PbC batteries is its inherent ability to equalize battery (even cell) voltage during charging at any rate. This is particularly important when the PbC is used in large string configurations (such as the locomotive, or the PowerCube) where the string is only as strong as its weakest (lowest voltage) battery (i.e. the string output is reduced by the lowest performing battery). The success of this testing will continue to allow us to expand the locomotive application to include other locomotive end users and locomotive integrators. On October 25, 2012, Norfolk Southern issued us the second purchase order for $88,850 for the remaining balance of a $475,000 total purchase order. – see Note No. 9 - Subsequent Events to the Consolidated Financial Statements.

     

    Other highlights through the third quarter of 2012 include:

     

    · In August, we executed an exclusive Global Distribution Agreement (“Agreement”) with Rosewater. As previously discussed, Rosewater has proven expertise in the distribution and marketing of electronic systems to the consumer retail markets in the United States and access to a network of installers for such electronic systems which we feel may be beneficial to the distribution of our “HUB”. This Agreement is for a three year term subject to the attainment of agreed upon annual sales objectives. Subsequent to the implementation of this agreement, Axion and Rosewater introduced the residential energy “HUB” at the CEDIA show in Indianapolis (September 2012). The reception of this product was very positive and the “HUB” won two awards at the show including one for ‘best new product’. Rosewater began an ‘awareness campaign’ right after the show, but were reluctant to take actual orders until there was better definition on an end date for 1741 and other testing protocols. Clarity has now been reached for testing completion in early December. Completion and in house testing of our prototype unit has given us confidence to market the ‘residential size’ unit for other applications and in areas that do not require extensive third party validation testing.

     

    August also saw us revisit an initiative that we spent some time on two years earlier. At the urging of our potential customer, and with the full backing of our VP of sales (Vani Dantam), who has an extensive history of providing products to the trucking industry, we began discussions and testing aimed at using our PbC batteries for “boost up-hill performance” for 18- wheel over the road heavy duty trucks. That process has evolved.

     

    Also in August, relying further on Vani Dantam’s trucking experience and reputation, we began exploratory talks with an OEM leader in the heavy duty trucking industry. We resurrected an initiative aimed at providing a product that would be a well - suited solution to the issues that arose in the trucking industry because of “anti-idling” legislation.

     

    Work continues with the hybrid vehicle manufacturers in the United States, Europe and Asia. As discussed previously, this work is in various stages of development and we are encouraged by the progress, although it continues to move at a pace that is slower, by comparison, than other initiatives we have undertaken.

     

    We have continued our “demand response” participation with PJM and Viridity utilizing our onsite PowerCube™. In October we increased our participation in the partnership arrangement, partially in response to PJM’s October 1, , 2012, implementation of “pay for performance” criteria, first legislated by FERC regulations that were approved in November of 2011. Our grading in the PJM system has averaged over 92 (out of 100) since October 1 st . This has added to our credibility with numerous utilities. We were invited to present at the Southeast Utility Conference on September 18 th . This conference was attended by 22 of the 26 invited utilities. As a result of all of our activities in this area, several RFP’s have been developed in both North America and offshore.

     

    Product sales for the three months ended September 30, 2012 were $2.2 million compared to $2.1 million for the same period in 2011. Net product sales for the nine months ended September 30, 2012 were $6.7 million compared to $4.8 million for the same period in 2011. We have one customer that accounted for approximately 87% and 83% of product sales for the three and nine month periods ended September 30, 2012, respectively, and one customer that accounted for approximately 86% and 80% of product sales for the three and nine month periods ended September 30, 2011, respectively. The increase in net product sales in 2012 compared to 2011 is due to a series of orders for the production and immediate delivery of specialty flooded lead acid batteries with the purchaser financing the cost of inventory and providing the raw materials required for production.

     

    15 Nov 2012, 06:29 AM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (3684) | Send Message
     
    It appears PbC sales are limited yet the flooded contract is still keeping us afloat. I hope JP can find some hidden gems in all the accounting legalese. I did notice our inventory was up so maybe that bodes well for future sales.

     

    Nap time for me.

     

    >>
    >>
    "Product sales for the three months ended September 30, 2012 were $2.2 million compared to $2.1 million for the same period in 2011. Net product sales for the nine months ended September 30, 2012 were $6.7 million compared to $4.8 million for the same period in 2011. We have one customer that accounted for approximately 87% and 83% of product sales for the three and nine month periods ended September 30, 2012, respectively, and one customer that accounted for approximately 86% and 80% of product sales for the three and nine month periods ended September 30, 2011, respectively. The increase in net product sales in 2012 compared to 2011 is due to a series of orders for the production and immediate delivery of specialty flooded lead acid batteries with the purchaser financing the cost of inventory and providing the raw materials required for production."
    15 Nov 2012, 06:31 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    Not a lot of encouragement from third quarter sales. Hopefully there will be more information in the CC.

     

    Axion anticipates that the yard locomotive will be in operation in the first quarter of 2013 with concurrent development of the OTR locomotive.
    15 Nov 2012, 06:38 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Revenues for the quarter were down by ±$200,000 on the flooded contract and down by ±$380,000 on PbC and other, but the loss was in line with prior quarters and continues to show fiscal restraint. I've updated my Excel worksheet for quarterly changes in revenues and key balance sheet accounts – http://bit.ly/REEdZV

     

    The balance sheet shows six months of cash and nine months of working capital, so the deadline for the next financing hasn't changed.

     

    Other points that caught my eye include:

     

    1. NS issued a purchase order for the $88,950 balance of the NS 999 contract on October 25th;
    2. A series hybrid Class 8 Tractor project that I introduced a couple years ago is moving forward;
    3. Exploratory talks are underway with an OEM leader in the heavy trucking industry (presumably relating to field testing for APU units that Axion wants to commence by 2013);
    4. The language about seeking financing "from sources that are in alignment with our business objectives and strategies" was retained.
    15 Nov 2012, 06:41 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    I noticed the value of the work in progress is 2 million Sept 30, 2012 compared to 1 million Dec 31, 2011. (grasping at anything that will give us hints of what's happening this quarter.)
    15 Nov 2012, 06:46 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    "Rosewater began an ‘awareness campaign’ right after the show, but were reluctant to take actual orders until there was better definition on an end date for 1741 and other testing protocols. Clarity has now been reached for testing completion in early December. Completion and in house testing of our prototype unit has given us confidence to market the ‘residential size’ unit for other applications and in areas that do not require extensive third party validation testing. "

     

    So, UL approval next month.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 07:02 AM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    HTL -

     

    I am skeptical about trying to put a date on UL certification. It seems the dates are always pushed back.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:51 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    From the NSC comments it appears that Axion is CONTINUING to pursue relationships with other train corporations.

     

    "The success of this testing will continue to allow us to expand the locomotive application to include other locomotive end users and locomotive integrators."
    15 Nov 2012, 07:03 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    Also noted:

     

    ...We were invited to present at the Southeast Utility Conference on September 18 th . This conference was attended by 22 of the 26 invited utilities. As a result of all of our activities in this area, several RFP’s have been developed in both North America and offshore.

     

    Do not forget that there are many billions of dollars in this sector.

     

    Godod day-Carlos
    15 Nov 2012, 07:11 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    Well, my question for the cc, regarding distribution of PbC sales and purpose, seems pointless.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 07:27 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    So, as I see it , the recent lowering of the share price is simple confirmation that non believers in the business plan are scared and have dumped. The risks are no different than 6 months ago. The cash is no different than planned. The relationships are no different than expected ( except for Big Rig trucking)..

     

    All is well if PbCs ever are sold as a mainstream product. To those that doubt, I understand your concerns. My only concern is the fact that Axion thought product sales would be greater than they really are. So far the RRs and Rosewater have accounted for nothing in this fiscal year. Obviously, Axion thought both were going to add to product sales ( remember TGs 300% growth statement?)

     

    This story is not unusual in microcap growth stories. Few customers means that we are at their whim. But the larger the customer base the less that is true. Keep up the grind Axion. Keep adding semi-trucks with 2.5 million of them on the road in US alone.
    Keep adding utilities with a potential market in the Billions. One step at a time. But stepping quickly would not hurt my feelings or my pocketbook.
    15 Nov 2012, 07:29 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    Futurist: "(remember TGs 300% growth statement?)"

     

    Remember we have 3 months left in the fiscal year. Normally, I would get a bit optimistic about the possibility that one of the initiatives might produce a sale that could ramp revenue near that range. But with everything they are involved in seemingly requiring one or two ice ages to pass before decisions can be made, I'm doubtful now.

     

    UL approval of the HUB in December doesn't leave much time for Rosewater to do those early installations, which will be done slowly with close supervision of the first few, to produce revenue either.

     

    Everything else is still either in RFP stage or extended testing or being aggressively pursued, or ... still.

     

    I only see one possible price-moving possibility on the near-term - a capital raise with a truly strategic partner that is not market-average price sensitive.

     

    Surprises might be possible in calendar Q1 '13 with the APU for trucks - testing should be shorter? - and Rosewater. (NSC) - maybe something there but I'm not holding my breath on that one for now.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 08:08 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    HT,
    TG did not talk about a 300% increase in share price. He was talking revenue. I see where he was coming from. Locomotive orders filled. Hubs being sold. Maybe a small auto order. But it does not appear any of those things are happening by fiscal years end. I'm not devastated. Simply disappointed. Again.
    But encouraged with all the new contacts and markets. It only takes one large customer believing in the product to order a lot of batteries. But if I were them I would want to be sure that this magical battery were no different than those that have gone before.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:55 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    Futurist: "TG did not talk about a 300% increase in share price."

     

    I knew that. I'm just expressing my thoughts on the revenue portion and concluding that I don't think there's a lot of possibility of pps movement w/o the revenue drivers coming to fruition.

     

    However, my RSS feed of the announcement on Axion's site came in after I had reviewed all the filing stuff and postings here - I can be a bit more optimistic if anything actually happens when expected.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 09:10 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (3577) | Send Message
     
    Hi guys,
    Just my 2 cents worth. I filled my sock drawer a little over a year ago with the intention of re-evaluating my position in 18 months. I am still holding until the 18 month mark, but if my read is right may add to my position soon. The stock can't stay broke forever and there has been and continues to be improvement in commercialization. When I decide to add, I will allot another 18 months in the sock drawer, JMHO.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    Excelente News:

     

    Separately, we are in various stages of work and discussions, that vary from early to very advanced, with a number of small and large – start up to prominent well established – heavy 'work horse' truck OEMS here in the US. The objective is to outfit 18-wheelers with battery-powered Axion systems that will boost uphill performance as well as increase miles per gallon. This application is in addition to our truck OEM initiative designed to satisfy 'anti-idling' legislation with the use of our PbC battery. We feel that the unique properties of our PbC battery (high charge acceptance, fast recharge rate, long cycle life and string equalization) will allow the OEM'S segregated battery system to function more efficiently when the truck is at rest but still needs to run its ancillary load (e.g. heater, radio, electronics, air conditioning, etc.) without idling the engine and creating emissions. The first of the 'boost performance' trucks is scheduled to be on the road, and hauling freight, in November and we anticipate being able to announce that event, and the name of the customer, in the very near future.

     

    Everything's on the truck!!!!
    15 Nov 2012, 07:42 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    Excelente News:

     

    "We are making meaningful progress toward marketing Axion Cube systems, of various sizes, to commercial users in North America and on offshore island Republics. In some cases our products will be used to decrease dependence on fossil fuels by accepting, regulating and storing power from renewables such as wind and solar. Our PowerCube™ systems can also provide power quality and can store power for backup purposes, as is the case with the Residential Energy Storage Hub. And finally, our PowerCube can assist utilities and grid managers with their efforts in load leveling and frequency regulation. In the case of utilities, the major demonstration system is the Axion PowerCube that was integrated 12 months ago into the huge PJM system here at our manufacturing plant in New Castle. We believe that the announcement of the first confirmed projects, for these various Axion Cube applications, will be made over the next several months. The market is sizable from both a geographic and a financial perspective."

     

    Everything's on the Grid!!!!
    15 Nov 2012, 07:44 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    Excelente News:

     

    "Axion is not chasing the pure-electric vehicle market. We are not creating hybrid drive trains for cars or trucks. But we are designing practical, affordable battery systems for real-world uses such as the start-stop systems that every automobile manufacturer in the world is trying to perfect. Axion products do not require special alterations in the national or international power infrastructure. Just the opposite, our transportation systems, including the over the road locomotives, are all capable of charging themselves while in use by taking advantage of regenerative braking. Simply put, our technology is not constrained by dependence on others, for example - needing to wait for someone to build charging stations."

     

    Everything's on the Cars (S/S) & Trains!!!!
    15 Nov 2012, 07:51 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1697) | Send Message
     
    "Axion is not chasing the pure-electric vehicle market. We are not creating hybrid drive trains for cars or trucks. But we are designing practical, affordable battery systems for real-world uses such as the start-stop systems that every automobile manufacturer in the world is trying to perfect. Axion products do not require special alterations in the national or international power infrastructure. Just the opposite, our transportation systems, including the over the road locomotives, are all capable of charging themselves while in use by taking advantage of regenerative braking."------

     

    I like this but I don't fully understand how you can have regen without a hybrid drivetrain.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:07 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    In micro-hybrids, what they refer to as brake energy regeneration is really just aggressive opportunity charging. You turn the alternator way down during acceleration and cruising, and then crank its output to the max during deceleration and braking.

     

    In any event, Axion isn't developing any of those mechanical systems. Instead it's making cost-effective batteries that perform well in those systems.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:11 AM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    Press release out. Seems more promising with TG's quotes.
    http://bit.ly/T3dFTC
    15 Nov 2012, 08:21 AM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    " The first of the 'boost performance' trucks is scheduled to be on the road, and hauling freight, in November and we anticipate being able to announce that event, and the name of the customer, in the very near future."
    15 Nov 2012, 08:28 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    For those looking for the source of the info Carlos posted:

     

    http://bit.ly/RVWpzP
    15 Nov 2012, 08:22 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    I think three of us posted the link at the same time, I've subsequently deleted mine. I was searching through the report looking for the items Carlos had commented on and was wondering how I missed them.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:32 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    Metro,

     

    It's hard to get used to a former caveman becoming a duck. :-))
    15 Nov 2012, 08:45 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    Jveal: Darwinian behavior: ducks survive to this day.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 08:57 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    Not a duck; but Gladstone Gander "Gladstone's luck defies probability and provides him with anything he desires, with hardly the need of effort."
    15 Nov 2012, 09:03 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I took a gander at the photo and saw no proof of gender. So duck seems to be the politically correct assumption, and I'm not making a snide reference to the way politicians handle hard questions.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:06 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    To me, the single strongest part of the whole report is "Our grading in the PJM system has averaged over 92 (out of 100) since October 1st . This has added to our credibility with numerous utilities. We were invited to present at the Southeast Utility Conference on September 18th . This conference was attended by 22 of the 26 invited utilities. As a result of all of our activities in this area, several RFP’s have been developed in both North America and offshore".

     

    Unfortunately, the results of all this is also likely to be a multi-year snails-pace progression. However, it *is* real-world results using the product and has yielded data that apparently impressed some potential customers.

     

    This piqued my curiosity: "Completion and in house testing of our prototype unit has given us confidence to market the ‘residential size’ unit for other applications and in areas that do not require extensive third party validation testing".

     

    Who and what and will it progress any faster than other initiatives?

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 08:24 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    I'm not sure what 92 out of 100 means. Dollars I wouild understand.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:38 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I suspect the 92 of 100 is some sort of performance measure, but I'm not exactly sure what it measures.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:47 AM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    Agreed. Hard to gauge what 92 out of 100 means without a comparison to other tech ...
    15 Nov 2012, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    I am not sure what 92 out 100 means or measures or compared to other tech. But I am sure 92 is better than 91 or 75 or expression like above-average. That is enough for me today.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • nummik
    , contributor
    Comments (69) | Send Message
     
    Truck and Powercube remarks are the bright spot.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:26 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The truck market is particularly intriguing because like railroad locomotives, the drivetrains are rebuilt every few years as a matter of course and each major rebuild gives rise to a number of retrofit opportunities. If you're selling a technology package for the OEM market, you have to suffer through the same kind of testing we've seen in automotive. For the retrofit market, however, the only person you have to satisfy is the owner.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:53 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    I think I just confirmed why I sometimes miss notification of a post. It seems that SA fails to note new posts that are posted when I am posting a comment. SA did not notify me of BugEYE's post after I posted my link to the press release.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    Ditto: Jveal. Wtblanchard posted a work-around some time back, but since I scroll a lot anyway I've never applied. I prefer to remain pissed at SA for not fixing it after around three years (or more?) since I reported it. Personality defect, I guess, in that I don't keep reporting, reporting, reporting, ... hoping, hoping, hoping, ...

     

    I have better uses for my time.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 08:50 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    It just happened again. When I posted another time and hit the notepad, it gave me no new notifications. I hit the refresh button and there were two messages Stefan posted just before I did. I confirmed that they were both posted before my last post by going to the latest post at the top right of the concentrator.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:52 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    jveal Try this. Just hit f5 after you hit the reply button and submit your comment. Then start reading the new comments again. Comments added while you were typing now are visible with the previous New comments.

     

    Kent
    15 Nov 2012, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    Thanks.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:28 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    Short Term Revenues:
    HUB - "looking to ship the first home system during the current quarter ending December 31, 2012."

     

    "We believe that the announcement of the first confirmed projects, for these various Axion Cube applications, will be made over the next several months."

     

    Now need to renew the toll contract.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:52 AM Reply Like
  • Nicholas Chen
    , contributor
    Comments (2750) | Send Message
     
    The language in the 10K and PR seem to be a lot more crafted towards putting the company in the best light possible. This must be because they are trying to raise money. Look forward to what TG says on this.

     

    I also like how there will be a few more PR opportunities in coming months, starting with the trucking company in November. Should hopefully give us some fresh buyers.
    15 Nov 2012, 08:53 AM Reply Like
  • axion-nl
    , contributor
    Comments (184) | Send Message
     
    Overall, the Q is good. Solid income and a promising future. The coming months well be filled with PR's!
    15 Nov 2012, 09:01 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    They are anouncing the quiet period is over. Current ask still at .30
    15 Nov 2012, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW): Regarding the "boost" application for OTR trucks, a CNBC piece mentioned (WPRT) will have their NG engine coming in '13. NG, with lower energy density, produces less power for the same size engine.

     

    PbC-boosted hill-climbing and acceleration of (near) fully-loaded rigs might be a real god-send to the truckers.

     

    But it's got to be done "right" - there are some very long and steep grades in some areas that will absolutely require all the PbC can deliver for extended periods. Even "big" 600 HP (and larger) current diesel units struggle into lower gears when traversing these areas at heavier loads.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    I guess I was dreaming
    15 Nov 2012, 09:33 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    Yes. Someone is not happy with the quarterly report. Hope its just a few and the ask goes back up.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:35 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    Jveal I was thinking they did not read all the news yet and sold maybe only on the underwhelming revenue number.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:39 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    Another great news:

     

    "And our Hubs and Cubes work with real-world solar and wind, while at the same time they offer the option of accepting grid power, or accepting emergency power from diesel generators. Recent weather events in the northeast have made it obvious to many that such power storage systems address a very real, and growing, need."

     

    Everything's on the Energy Alter., Polluting The Commons
    & Grid!!!!
    15 Nov 2012, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >Someone ... Quiz me this, "PbC-boosted hill-climbing and acceleration of (near) fully-loaded rigs might be a real god-send to the truckers." by what mechanical mechanism in an ICE application. So far I can only figure this would require some sort of electric motor as a booster. Maybe a UQM motor? In pure ICE, I don't get it.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:38 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1960) | Send Message
     
    >Drich, Wouldn't it be along the same lines as an e-Assist for trucks?
    15 Nov 2012, 09:40 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    Drich Good question for the call.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:41 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    DRich: w/o details, I presume either a motor-generator or a motor added in the drive train, likely easiest behind the transmission.

     

    There's room for them on the wheels, but that seems much more expensive and I couldn't see it unless it was also going to yield other benefits, like traction control on slick surfaces, etc.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 09:51 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I'm pretty sure the project they're referring to is one I sent their way a couple years ago. It's a true series hybrid Class 8 tractor – http://bit.ly/MSNg6E

     

    It uses a small turbo diesel genset (±200 hp) backed by 50 batteries for (a) acceleration between 25 and 65, and (b) hill climbing. The original used AGM batteries, but they had lots of failure problems. The tractor would be no fun in the rockies, but there's a lot of places where terrain wouldn't be an issue.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:53 AM Reply Like
  • JohnM121
    , contributor
    Comments (502) | Send Message
     
    I've read that cars are moving towards electrification of systems that traditionally run directly off the engine. EG steering, brakes and A/C. On these vehicles, I can see where the alternator load for these systems could be reduced by running them off PBC when more power needs to go the wheels. It seems like a cheap (low-cost) way to get extra drive power and standby engine-off benefits without any complicated transmission changes.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:59 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >jakurtz ... That would be my guess but, unless I've been snoozing too often, I've not seen in print or heard anything specific. I am aware of 3 such projects by trucking OEM/supplier collaborations and read rumor of many more along those lines. If rails don't lead as Customer No. 1, I'd be just as happy to see the OTR trucking industry fill that niche first. The wait goes on.
    15 Nov 2012, 10:01 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Well if it's as you suggest I doubt it's 48VDC or lower (more batteries). Or is it some form of super charging moving away from normal aspiration on the ICE? Like the Valeo offering?

     

    Tis interesting and more near term.
    15 Nov 2012, 10:14 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Way to go John!
    15 Nov 2012, 11:32 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    ePower is claiming 10 to 12 mpg for a fully loaded Class 8 rig, which is crushing performance given DOE goals of 6 to 7 mpg. – http://bit.ly/U1Q32E
    15 Nov 2012, 11:35 AM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (3182) | Send Message
     
    John
    If I remember correctly you were working to get them up and going as a company?
    And you were suggesting about 14mpg for a semi.
    Same company?
    and

     

    HTL's idea of Westport (WPRT) NG would be a great combo.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:32 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I also introduced them to a VC who arranged a first financing round and took them from the much simpler 2009 prototype to the current version. Their mpg claims have moderated a bit, but 10 to 12 mpg is a monster number if it proves out.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:48 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Quick research I learned that in 2010, Class 8 trucks combined traveled 128.4 BILLION miles in the US alone.

     

    Going from 7 miles per gallon on average, to 12 miles per gallon, the fuel savings could be massive, as is the potential in this niche alone for the PbC.

     

    Further research shows...

     

    By the Year 2020:

    The U.S. freight transportation industry will carry 18.8 billion tons of freight, generating $1.3 trillion in revenue, representing a 68.5% increase over 2008 revenue of $794.9 billion.

    Trucking will account for $1.3 trillion of all freight transportation revenue, a 68.5% increase over 2008.

    The trucking industry will haul 70.9% of total U.S. freight tonnage.

     

    http://bit.ly/QJp50L
    15 Nov 2012, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1697) | Send Message
     
    JP noted: "ePower is claiming 10 to 12 mpg for a fully loaded Class 8 rig, which is crushing performance given DOE goals of 6 to 7 mpg." – http://bit.ly/U1Q32E
    --
    The claim on the link is a 65% reduction in fuel use. I have to be skeptical of this claim, especially since it is apparently pre PbC. No hybrid truck that I am aware of does better than 50% fuel reduction and anything close to 50% is an application with frequent stops and starts, which is where a hybrid can take advantage of regenerative braking. But ePower is talking about semi trucks OTR--that does not sound like a way to take full advantage of the benefits of hybrid regen.
    Perhaps there are major anti-idling gains which are included in this claim. But I can only assume that the claim cannot be apples to apples with real world numbers like this DOE study: 14% fuel savings, 24% cost per mile savings using an Eaton parallel hybrid system.http://1.usa.gov/PYKQYX

     

    Now that is not to say I am not excited to finally see the PbC be applied to a hybrid truck. On the contrary, I am excited to see what the PbC can do in this application! But I am confused by the early claims of ePower.
    16 Nov 2012, 09:45 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I think skepticism's a good thing, particularly with a new technology from a small outfit like ePower. It's important to remember that their truck isn't so much a hybrid as a series electric vehicle that uses a diesel genset to provide electricity for the drivetrain - just like a locomotive. The engine has been sized for the power needed to keep the truck moving at steady highway cruising speed, which is apparently enough power for around town driving at speeds of up to 25 or 30 mph. The place the truck needs additional boost from the batteries is acceleration from city speeds to highway speeds, and hill climbing. It won't get the job done in the rockies, but it may work very well in flatter country.
    16 Nov 2012, 10:15 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    JP: and the *sizing* is the critical item that enables the fuel savings. Efficiencies all around when the IC is no larger than it needs to be.

     

    From my POV, their claims might not be all that exaggerated. I'd also bet that the calculated horsepower from the IC is quite near what's required for steady-state highway speed on level ground. A typical benefit of this is tuning changes, e.g. valve timing, lift and duration, exhaust tuning, ... that make the engine most efficient at that target speed. This yields big savings in reduced losses of various types in exchange for lower performance outside the target RPM band.

     

    Such things as e-assist then compensate for that performance loss.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Nov 2012, 10:30 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    As I understand it, their electric motor is larger than their generator so it can easily accept additional power from the batteries when needed.
    16 Nov 2012, 11:02 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    HTL, You're right on in your comments. ICE's are so far over sized for events that are a very small percentage of the drive cycle. Moving the size of the engine closer to what is required for the large portion of the drive cycle and having some method to augment this on the far rarer occasion it's required saves a ton of energy. This is because and ICE is inherently so inefficient. This, of coarse, depends on variables such as topography and city vs highway driving.

     

    Electrifying auxiliary devices allows for this to happen far more readily. I like to say that the vehicle is becoming a smart mini grid. Take advantage of low engine energy output requirements and keep filling an accumulator to take care of when it's undersized. Not good for flat areas or large mountain changes but great for lots of more modest changes in elevation and requirements for speed variation with SS being the most dramatic of the latter.

     

    The document I published the other day indicated class 8 trucking was 4 % of the vehicles traffic but consumed 20 % of OTR fuel. Now that strikes me as a market which offers some opportunity. Seeing large double digit savings in fuel economy has to make the average fleet operator giddy. Just like Thelen at NS these people know it's worth the effort.
    16 Nov 2012, 11:39 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1697) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for your comments guys!

     

    My thought is that if they are using the smallest engine and tuning it a certain way, this application is going to be very route specific. And they are likely going to need electric power for every start from stop--not just for hills and accelerating to highway speeds.
    16 Nov 2012, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    ePower's CEO told me that their 200 hp turbo-diesel put out enough juice for city driving below 25 to 30 mph and for steady-state cruising at speeds up to 65 mph. He claims the only place they need the extra boost from the battery pack is for acceleration to steady state cruising speed and hill climbing. Since he was hunting for money at the time and wanted me to refer him to some of my financial contacts, I see no reason to think he was lying.
    16 Nov 2012, 11:58 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >D Lane ... There are other technologies that might help expand the useful topography. Things that are not really commercial yet but might be soon. The idea of an electric super-charger springs to mind or the dual fuel injection of Natgas combined with diesel ... nitrous(?) come to mind. Mix & match. I'm sure there are others and quite sure many people are working on things not imagined.
    16 Nov 2012, 11:58 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Oops, Not mountain changes but chains. ;)
    16 Nov 2012, 12:02 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    The ePower demo truck in the video someone posted the other day looked like it accelerates as quickly as a car.

     

    Also, the time saved climbing hills would reduce others costs and improve delivery times on long hauls in addition to saving fuel, IMO.
    16 Nov 2012, 04:58 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The video didn't specifically say that the trailer was fully loaded. So despite the fact that I like the guys at ePower, I'll leave mental room for the possibility that they're engaging in a little showmanship. Nevertheless, if it works the way they say it does and the PbC is stout enough to overcome the problems they've had with AGM batteries, it could be an important technology.
    17 Nov 2012, 12:47 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1697) | Send Message
     
    JohnM, regarding electrification of systems that traditionally run directly off the engine. Transit buses have moved heavily in that direction and here is the most advanced example I know of, from BAE Systems.
    http://bit.ly/RQZsYW
    20 Nov 2012, 09:47 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    -- Revenue for all periods was largely attributable to the sale of specialty lead-acid batteries to a major lead-acid battery company that sells the batteries under its own brand.

     

    Exactly what NDA is not allowing TG to not say East Penn?

     

    54 comments since 2 AM. Wow!
    15 Nov 2012, 09:53 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    It's nice to have something to talk about that doesn't require too much speculation.
    15 Nov 2012, 09:59 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Speculation? Well...We're going to have to once again hear, "Going concern."

     

    Last year, when we heard this term spoken, the stock tumbled about 10 cents in almost an instant.

     

    Volume though, is shallow so far today...only 4 trades so far. 22,000.
    15 Nov 2012, 10:11 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    We're going to hear "Going Concern" again, but unlike last year when we didn't hear the phrase till September, this year we first heard the phrase in June so that risk is already baked into the price.
    15 Nov 2012, 10:21 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Agreed. And by this time next year, what I'm hoping is that AXPW shares will shoot up 25 cents in an instant, when we become a profitible going concern ;-)
    15 Nov 2012, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    All I want for Christmas is a couple years of revenue ramp at rates that require Axion to use every penny of gross profit from product sales expanding its core business. Companies that voluntarily lose a little money every quarter because they're expanding at tremendous rates are always more fun than ones that get into the rut of meeting analyst earnings expectations too early.

     

    Look at Tesla and Maxwell over the last couple years. The story of how good things were going to be had all the legs in the world as long as the market expected them to lose increasing amounts of money as they pushed onward toward the goal. The trouble comes when the ramp slows and you make the products but don't generate the earnings.
    15 Nov 2012, 10:40 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Growing concern?
    15 Nov 2012, 10:52 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1697) | Send Message
     
    I find the press release this morning very encouraging! Very positive language regarding the timing of potential HUB and PC sales. It sounds like the ice on the PC market is starting to thaw!

     

    Then there is this: "we are in various stages of work and discussions, that vary from early to very advanced, with a number of small and large – start up to prominent well established – heavy 'work horse' truck OEMS here in the US."

     

    That to me was a big suprise, especially the "very advanced" language.

     

    We may never see .25 shares again.
    15 Nov 2012, 10:08 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    Make no mistake, this is all Vani getting us involved in trucking.

     

    Along with the HUB, trucks could be the baby step we need to get us ready to fulfill the auto OEMs and utilities.

     

    Treat them like gold, make them rave about us and the utilities and automakers will feel that much more confident.

     

    Maybe Axion delivers so well that we become a first tier battery-maker in our own right.

     

    And maybe we buy some of those shiny new AGM facilities out of the next Exide bankruptcy. Ha!

     

    D
    15 Nov 2012, 10:15 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Wouldn't that be sweet revenge?
    15 Nov 2012, 10:22 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    I agree:

     

    ...the next Exide bankruptcy.

     

    Has the solution in your hands: AXION POWER PbC Tech.
    15 Nov 2012, 10:21 AM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13581) | Send Message
     
    OK, another Q in the rear view.

     

    My cup runneth over with AXPW shares. Now its just wait for the paint to dry and see if it works.

     

    Should we see a general market implosion, which I consider likely over the next 3 months, I might add again at $.16, assuming the search for a strategic partner flops, and the news is stable.
    15 Nov 2012, 10:22 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Gotta love a guy who can find a dark cloud for every silver lining ;-)
    15 Nov 2012, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    :-I

     

    http://bit.ly/U1JA7T
    15 Nov 2012, 10:36 AM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13581) | Send Message
     
    The view from the bottom of the pond is always cloudy...

     

    And that's what we bottom feeders like.
    15 Nov 2012, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (820) | Send Message
     
    I am very interested in this no idle systems for trucks. The report says there are over 650,000 trucks in the United States. What percentage of these trucks would be using these new no idle systems? Each system utilizing 4 PbC batteries could soon ramp-up quite large I believe. What kind of speculation could we apply to the sales of these units,100 units per month? 1 thousand units per month? Even at 5000 units per month for new and retrofitted units that's 60,000 a year or an equivalent of 10 years to outfit 600,000 trucks.

     

    I understand that not all of these trucks will be utilizing one of these no Idle units but my question is how many actually will? And I believe it would not take long to ramp the sales up especially since there are numerous units out there already utilizing AGM batteries that are failing prior to the warranty expiration. I wonder if they plan on having a retrofit to take the existing AGM powered units and replace them with PBC batteries, would they just have to switch out the battery management system in order to do this?

     

    At 1000 new and refit units per month that would equal 4000 batteries @ approximately $400 each equals 1.6 million per month.
    15 Nov 2012, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    RBrun, And buses, and heavy duty equipment and....

     

    And the world is a big place. That's the good thing about things that make sense.
    15 Nov 2012, 11:03 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    FYI,

     

    http://bit.ly/S0nhNI
    15 Nov 2012, 11:09 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (820) | Send Message
     
    Thanks ii,

     

    It appears that approximately 100k trucks per year is the current trend.
    15 Nov 2012, 11:18 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1297) | Send Message
     
    Here is my shot at the damp towel award:

     

    A lot of good news about potential future sales. Many irons in the fire, but not much clarity on how fast revenues could ramp up. My biggest worry is no news about how they will stay liquid beyond Q1 2013 while losing $2M per quarter. Tangible net equity is down to $6.8M or 0.06/sh, which would certainly affect how much any "strategic investor" is willing to pay for new shares. I'm not selling at this point, but not buying either.
    15 Nov 2012, 10:53 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Your comment demonstrates that you don't understand the terms you use.

     

    Axion's financial statement net worth is $13.3 million.

     

    There are no intangible assets on its balance sheet. In fact, the only intangible item is an accounting liability for deferred grant revenue of $1.4 million that would be added to net worth if you wanted a true picture of the tangible values.
    15 Nov 2012, 11:04 AM Reply Like
  • Nicholas Chen
    , contributor
    Comments (2750) | Send Message
     
    John, speaking of intangibles, how would the value of patents be determined, as Axion seeks a strategic investor who presumably wants a valuation of the company?
    15 Nov 2012, 11:09 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Valuation of patents and other intellectual property is extraordinarily complex and somebody who wanted a valuation would probably hire a firm like Arthur D. Little to do an evaluation.

     

    Axion's cumulative R&D spending since inception is $32.6 million. Companies that undertake basic research and development in the battery field expect 90% to 95% of all efforts to result in a total loss. They also expect the 5% to 10% that succeed to cover all the losses and generate an overall profit for the time value of money expended.
    15 Nov 2012, 11:15 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1297) | Send Message
     
    I stand corrected. I was going off the text in the press release that stated "Total current assets at September 30, 2012 were $8.0 million, versus total current liabilities of $1.2 million, with no significant debt."
    That gives the impression of net assets of $6.8M. Not sure why, but they seem to have left of the plant and equipment assets out from that statement.
    15 Nov 2012, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1286) | Send Message
     
    valuation of patents rarely happens until the patent is sold. that is why it is intangible asset and doesn't get calculated into net tangible assets.
    15 Nov 2012, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • Nicholas Chen
    , contributor
    Comments (2750) | Send Message
     
    If I read the PR correctly, the PbC for trucks will be going on the road this month, and thus don't require a lengthy testing period. It is to meet regulatory "idling" requirements, and thus is not as performance sensitive as other auto and rail apps. Does this not mean Axion will have a steady stream of truck orders coming in?
    15 Nov 2012, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4788) | Send Message
     
    " It is to meet regulatory "idling" requirements, and thus is not as performance sensitive as other auto and rail apps. "

     

    From the Q3 PR, "The first of the 'boost performance' trucks is scheduled to be on the road, and hauling freight, in November and we anticipate being able to announce that event, and the name of the customer, in the very near future."
    15 Nov 2012, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    My bet was 10 minutes lag. ;))

     

    But the music is good. LALA WAWA.
    15 Nov 2012, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    I thought we were waiting on Joe P again :-)
    15 Nov 2012, 12:40 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    From the cc, a ray of hope? RFP with the utilities have many in a "mature" status. I wonder exactly what we should read into that.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    I'm betting the truck OEM is (PCAR) - KW and Peterbuilt - they been building & running some test trucks around the track with different things, including (CPST) micro-turbines. IIRC, they are serial-hybrids and use the the Parket Hannefin stuff.

     

    There's also some Freightliner test trucks running around, but I only know of after-market testing.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 11:34 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Freightliner is the one that was mentioned by name as an APU example on Slide 9 of the SAE presentation.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:37 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    So that's another leg - Artisan Systems, US 1, Peterbuilt have trucks testing in various stages for different experimental drive-trains and we know that Freightliner is already on the APU bandwagon.

     

    Something's going to break through sooner or later.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 12:40 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I wouldn't call it a leg, but it's clearly a hint.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    ARCA just withdrew the $0.26 bid, now we have CDEL best as $0.2749. I presume someone trading through ARCA got positive vibes?

     

    Best bid still $0.248 though.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 12:11 PM Reply Like
  • Nicholas Chen
    , contributor
    Comments (2750) | Send Message
     
    Speaking of vibes, I think collectively we can have some short term relief about the financing overhang. TG, if I heard correctly, said a share sale would only happen in 2013 if no strategic investor will agree to terms. That means we only need to worry around next February if nothing happens, but also means Axion has an almost guaranteed backup for cash and won't run into bankruptcy.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:16 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    Got to the web late, so I missed some of the CC Q&A. No mention of "strategic investor"? Or did I miss that?
    15 Nov 2012, 12:17 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    There was some discussion that the February group originally planned to do another tranche in Q1 of next year but he also left the door open for strategic business partners. My sense is that either is possible but Q1-13 is the more likely timing, which gives us time for the price to recover a bit before we get into the offering price negotiation interval.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:33 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    John: and, importantly I think, it gives more time for RW and other stuff to generate positive news that might cause more than a recovery.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 12:36 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >JP ... We can only hope. Price go up? Be still my heart that we make it back to the $0.30 levels. Maybe now, at least, these crazed sellers will at least take a pause.

     

    I did love hearing that a real user/customer would be using the PbC in actual commerce by the end of this month. Wow!! Finally! A customer.

     

    Wish I knew the name so I could get the trophy engraved & in the mail, but, as with all things "Axion", I'll wait & see.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:45 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    DRich Here is a quote from Carlos' post above ( I believe from a press release "The first of the 'boost performance' trucks is scheduled to be on the road, and hauling freight, in November and we anticipate being able to announce that event, and the name of the customer, in the very near future." Very soon we will all know the name.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Gold Star Question award nominees:

     

    D.McHattie for finding out that NS is looking at the PbC as a system-wide battery solution;
    WT Blanchard for getting clarity on durability of the flooded contract, pay for performance and the PowerCube (HUB);
    15 Nov 2012, 12:17 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Do I get a DRY towel/blanket?
    15 Nov 2012, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    I'll donate a "blanket" endorsement to you for getting the goods.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I think both of you get dry warm fuzzy blankets.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:51 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    I kinda wanted to follow up and ask directly: so what were the $13k in PbC batteries for 'other' purposes for? Idle Stop/Start?

     

    I doubt TG would have told us but am still curious.

     

    D
    15 Nov 2012, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    His response indicated that they wanted to use the PbC wherever possible in their system, which would include idle elimination and the rest of the road locomotive fleet. The $13,000 number strikes me as a pile of batteries for testing in other applications, rather than an implementation number.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:11 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    JP: with their green initiatives encompassing the breadth of the enterprise, could be for buildings, solar, ...? I'm sure they're experimenting all over the place.

     

    24-30+ batteries?

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • Articula
    , contributor
    Comments (283) | Send Message
     
    Summary:

     

    Even more irons in the fire as other industries find out the PBC is a inexpensive, scalable solution.

     

    The battery has yet to fail

     

    This is going to be fun ladies and gentlemen. The opportunities literally are endless
    15 Nov 2012, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • mds5375
    , contributor
    Comments (176) | Send Message
     
    As Axion doesn't know yet, it looks like our A1 sleuthing team will have to find out how many others get PJM's 92+ rating out of 100.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    Dollar to a doughnut there ain't many/any with a ~0.9265 (his best recollection was "something like that").

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 12:28 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    With the clarification on the 92/93 out of 100, I think I may know where to find the information to put together a short instablog on this topic.
    When I get some time, I will go back and look again.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    Articula: I can't help myself: "Even more irons in the fire".

     

    Surely you meant "Even more IONS in the fire"?! ;-)

     

    On another note, more "analysts" on the cc this time? At least more company names mentioned.

     

    Sounds like the word may be at long last getting "out there".

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • Articula
    , contributor
    Comments (283) | Send Message
     
    You got me!
    15 Nov 2012, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    HTL,
    I think you are confused. The ones who have IONS in the fire are Fisker owners who have Li-ion batteries!
    15 Nov 2012, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    LabTech: LoL! You got it (and me too)!

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1963) | Send Message
     
    My wife listened in on the call. Her response was that "TG sounds like a good leader who believes in his product"..." sounding confident while answering every question with a believeable, legitimate answer". As she added, "whereas I go into my meetings at work and get a lot of fluff".
    15 Nov 2012, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    One caller was from Abender Corporation? If so, this ties in nicely with Rosewater, as this solar company has offices in PA and Florida.

     

    http://abender.com
    15 Nov 2012, 12:29 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    I liked that TG cited the person responsible for leading cost reductions during the year ... sorry I don't have his name handy. Sign of a good leader, and also something we shareholders often don't pay attention to in the rush to look at the future.

     

    Of course we're not surprised, it's a "company tradition" and part of the reason some of us have hung in as long as we have.

     

    EDIT: as well as lots of credit to Vani in today's filings/releases.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:32 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    CEO Chuck Trego
    15 Nov 2012, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I think he meant CFO.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    JP, Yeah. I smiled.

     

    Hadn't realized TG stepped aside.

     

    All in all a good cc. Really impressed with the advances on the trucking side. This should move much quicker than automotive if it makes sense and IMO it makes a lot of sense in numerous forms. Sales were a little light but with NS999 in Q4 and the LAB industry weaker as a whole that's to be expected. I said it before, I'm not all that interested in sales growth in LABs. I want them to keep the factory running for staff training, ease of access for PbC and for thinning their costs. Not their future but good for operational support. They got a 9 month extension which is good for this purpose.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • Alphameister
    , contributor
    Comments (1428) | Send Message
     
    For some reason, I wasn't able to ask my question. I was hoping TG would address the issue of why various regulators serious about mpg and emissions are not working overtime to press the use of Axion's best available technology instead of closing their eyes to the rapid degradation of "competitive" stop-start batteries. Perhaps JP would be good enough to address this issue.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:34 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    I was tired this morning, and forgot to hit *1 for the longest time to get in the question queue. Fortunately, I "awoke" and hit the button.

     

    Actually, I never trust these systems. I always hit the *1 at least twice ... just in case :-)
    15 Nov 2012, 12:39 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I think we'll all agree that the PbC looks like it will win the "best technology" award by several lengths, but in November 2012 it's not available at relevant scale and it hasn't yet made it all the way through the testing and validation process with several automakers.

     

    The auto industry is going to need some 34 million micro-hybrid batteries a year within three years. Until the PbC completes OEM torture testing and Axion scales capacity to some relevant percentage of 34 million units per year, the "best available technology" will be enhanced flooded batteries, AGM will be rapidly gaining ground as new capacity is built and the PbC will be an easy drop-in for AGM plants.

     

    We will all be very happy campers long before the PbC is the best available technology.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:44 PM Reply Like
  • Alphameister
    , contributor
    Comments (1428) | Send Message
     
    I understand the issue is availability in scale, so my question is really why regulators are not providing a strong wind behind Axion's back to get this technology in widespread use.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:39 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    At this moment the PbC is promising, but not yet proven. When Axion gets a couple OEMs under its belt the dynamic will change, but there's no way to shortcut the process.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Maybe now that the election is over :-)

     

    Seriously, we've had a number of folks here and citizens in general complain/observe about the "government" picking winners and losers.

     

    So unfortunately, sometimes something that should be numerical/analytic becomes political, or is slowed by dealing with political realities.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    Unless of course, your research comes out of MIT, and has Li-ion in its name, then you get to shortcut the process...at least until you go bankrupt.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    MM just put a 500 share $0.248 "lure" out there I think.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    I like how we had all that trading and pushing around when we didn't have any information. Now we get information, which a rational person would assume might make people revalue the asset, and trading pretty much stops. LOL. Ya gotta love it!
    15 Nov 2012, 01:29 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1286) | Send Message
     
    could suggest who's actually buying and selling on those days.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:31 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: I think this is not uncommon. I think a couple things influence this behavior.

     

    One would be time to analyze and think it over, check with others, guage market sentiment, ...

     

    Another would be a common "let the market settle a few days and see where it goes".

     

    Last, in spite of my best effort, it was insisting on being a Friday, when it is not uncommon to see low volumes. The bright side is that if it was Saturday, the volume would have been even lower! :-))

     

    Oh! One last thing - I've noticed the market overall seems to have lower volume these last ... many(?) months. I think money, in general, is leaving for whatever reason. And on some apparently favorite HFT equities they have disappeared too.

     

    HardToLove
    17 Nov 2012, 09:10 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Thanks HTL. You could be right.

     

    Market does seem to be in a corrective phase. Just odd to see all the positioning in front of the update, with the little ugly playing games, and then such a lull based on a status update.

     

    Buy the rumor sleep the news? ;))

     

    I'm remain of the opinion we have someone working hard to use a nominal position to move Axion lower.
    17 Nov 2012, 10:24 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1697) | Send Message
     
    What I would describe as a very incomplete and poorly researched article on Axion is up at http://bit.ly/W9DTlV

     

    The author should be invited to New Castle to get the real story.
    15 Nov 2012, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19449) | Send Message
     
    D Lane: she should be invited to find a new career path. Isn't this her second ill-informed article on the space?

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2012, 01:11 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1697) | Send Message
     
    HTL- Perhaps editor Tom Konrad would consider removing the article on the basis that key facts are incorrect.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    I can't believe a person with such a title would publish such a piece of trash. It's embarrassing.
    15 Nov 2012, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    Whoa. That's the same author that wrote about the article about the benefits of investing in the battery sector ...
    15 Nov 2012, 09:02 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    I haven't signed up with any stock related site in months. But I just did with this one, and bashed the pundit.

     

    What a disgrace such uninformed and unfounded BS about Axion Power is allowed by Tom Konrad, someone of which I hold respect.

     

    Shameful.

     

    Thanks, D Lane. I agree, this author should be banned from ever producing anything about the energy storage space. Remember Handcock, when Will Smith tossed a whale out to sea?

     

    http://binged.it/PXSEdB
    16 Nov 2012, 01:14 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    FWIW, last time I checked Tom Konrad was an Axionista. He hasn't gone overboard but his holdings are significant to him.
    16 Nov 2012, 04:31 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1697) | Send Message
     
    I'm glad that Axionistas have commented on the article and I appreciate the editor's response. I expect there to be some further follow-up from the author.
    16 Nov 2012, 10:20 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    I was pretty amazed at how hard TG came down on BMW in one of his answers. Wonder if that will be the next answer he regrets ...

     

    Certainly understandable though ... his (and our) patience has been sorely and repeatedly tested!

     

    I guess we can assume the 3rd party testing won't end early, but he did hold out hope they would get some winter "in car" (dare I say fleet?) testing in this year. Is that what others heard too?
    15 Nov 2012, 12:55 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Like many things Axion, I don't think anybody expected BMW to take three years to do their in-house work. Management was excited about getting over the first BMW hurdle in late 2009. That was the event that made the big placement possible, and convinced holders of preferred stock like me to consent to mandatory conversion. At ELBC 2010 I learned that two years was the minimum testing and validation cycle for commodity starter batteries. If BMW hadn't taken the podium with Axion I would have been disheartened.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    WTB, I don't see it as so much a BMW put down. It's automotive in general and I think anyone that's rational and has worked with the autos could understand his frustration given the hat he's wearing.

     

    I've even lived it and it's still draining me watching it as an interested party at the Axion table.

     

    Not as frustrating as NSC though.
    15 Nov 2012, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Widening list of opportunities which is great. Vani produced the trucking opportunity so he's scoring. Revenues suck but so far so good. Wonder how many melcupas TG will need to express on 300% before people forget it?

     

    His comment that Axion had been chastised by NS for talking out of school was exactly what I expected when Vani made the 5-10 locomotives remark early this year. I cringed when he made that remark.

     

    Not time for me to buy more yet, but that time will come.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1135) | Send Message
     
    Looking for clarification from the group on the class 8 truck market.

     

    - There is the company, John referenced which appears that AXPW is working/cooperating with that appears very promising LT.

     

    We've discussed the Trucking APU market on here. Is that just us talking or is AXPW actively working on that as well?

     

    Both seem like naturals but the APU market is absolutely faster to market. Which area is the November battery testing going to happen for?
    15 Nov 2012, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The SAE presentation in October focused on the APU solution and said that Axion wanted to be engaged in vehicle testing by Q1-13
    15 Nov 2012, 01:29 PM Reply Like
  • jvanwest
    , contributor
    Comments (57) | Send Message
     
    My two cents.
    Axion is making good progress on many fronts, that much is clear. I believe they have a great product, which as we are seeing, has many possibilities. I think the stock price is languishing because there are many POTENTIAL customers, the market is concerned that none of this will turn into PAYING customers.

     

    I still find it amazing that with each quarter when they announce new relationships and progress it doesn't move the needle on the stock even a bit. As Bang has said many times it all comes down to SALES, which it sounds like may start to trickle in soon with the Rosewater HUB. While trucking is moving into a test vehicle this month, I dont expect large numbers of sales anytime soon.

     

    After reviewing nearly all of the presentations that trickle to the concentrator (many thanks by the way for everyones effort, I rarely post but read nearly every comment) we see the same great data. That is how many cycles it can withstand, how its king in a string, fast charge acceptance, no buildup of sulfer crystals. These are all competitive product advantages, we and the market know they have the next best mousetrap. What I would like to see and I believe the market as well, is some marketing data that talks about the economic advantages of using the PBC. How is this going to save the potential customers money, period. That is what it all comes down to.

     

    So we wait for more paint to dry. I wont expect the needle on the stock to move much with PR announcements about the trucking partner or UL certification that should be baked in after this week. I believe the only thing that will move the needle is when some sales trickle in and they can add a line to the Q's devoted to PBc sales.

     

    I hope to comment again when good news hits, which I truly hope comes soon, otherwise the next Q is 6 months away and we dont need silence for that amount of time.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    It all boils down to the fundamental nature of the Hype Cycle.

     

    Something Axion does will serve as a "technology trigger" that captures media attention, and once that point is reached things will never be the same. I don't know what the event will be, but we're in a target rich environment.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    jvanwest The next Q is actually 4.5 months away not 6 " next Q is 6 months away" end of January.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:44 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The next report will be the 2012 Form 10-K, which is due by March 31, 2013.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    My bad meant march 4.5 months away.

     

    Thx JP

     

    edit Been up all night (PST), got home at 5:30AM and couldn't miss the CC.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:58 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    The comment about a big stack of PbC batteries available for shipment kind of went by me in a blur. What was that all about?
    15 Nov 2012, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
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    Getting ready to ship when NS says now.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:37 PM Reply Like
  • Johhny rambo
    , contributor
    Comments (127) | Send Message
     
    Although I was on my cell at the time, I was actually most happy to hear him comment that way, it shows me he is actually ticked off about all the time it's taking. I prefer that to him being submissive.
    3 years should be enough for any OEM.
    15 Nov 2012, 01:29 PM Reply Like