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  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1804) | Send Message
     
    Ho ho ho!
    27 Nov 2012, 12:40 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4161) | Send Message
     
    Old joke...

     

    What's the difference between Tiger Woods and Santa Claus...

     

    Santa stopped at three of those...
    27 Nov 2012, 10:45 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17884) | Send Message
     
    'Nother lure: 500 shares at $0.295 - ignore it and it might go away. :-))

     

    HardToLove
    27 Nov 2012, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17884) | Send Message
     
    Since we're used to thinking in terms of pennies, we might tend to overlook alternative views. One common way to view gains and losses is percentage.

     

    Since my experimental stuff began showing the first inklings of a rise approaching around 11/12, I thought the change from the low of that day 'till now would be interesting.

     

    Using the high of $0.30 and that 11/12 low of $0.2505, +19.76%.

     

    A respectable point to take profit for anyone that's doing short-term trading. Might be why we do, indeed, see a pause at $0.30.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Nov 2012, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    HTL:

     

    You might be right about profit taking, but there is a respectable bit of resistance at 30 cents:

     

    http://bit.ly/Y0SNSb
    27 Nov 2012, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17884) | Send Message
     
    Billa: that profit-taking is what provides the resistance, mostly.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Nov 2012, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1804) | Send Message
     
    I'll bet that ePower news will let us grind through that resistance. Next stop, 35 cents :)
    27 Nov 2012, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Not meaning to quibble, but resistance reflects reluctance to buy as much as eagerness to sell.
    27 Nov 2012, 01:11 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Holders who bought at 0.30 would like to make a profit after waiting out the dips and are not necessarily interested in buying more.
    27 Nov 2012, 01:12 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    I'm with you, Ranma.

     

    0.35 is the biggie. When we break through 0.35, watchers are going to start figuring it is time to buy.
    27 Nov 2012, 01:14 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17884) | Send Message
     
    Billa: also not quibbling, but as close as I watch this stuff, I'm certain it's folks taking profit ATM. This has been a repetitive pattern and we break it when a bullish catalyst appears, I think.

     

    We'll never know, but it';s good to bat it around in case we miss something.

     

    HardToLove
    EDIT; I forgot to mention - I think "reluctance to buy" has appeared, most frequently, as we move down, leading to a bottom-feeder's frenzy finally ending the reluctance.
    27 Nov 2012, 01:15 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13507) | Send Message
     
    Strategic investors are likely to be unimpressed with a quick pop from the mid/high $20's up to $.30. I would think there are more watching for $.35, and how close we are to a new funding whenever it hits $.35. If there is a perception that there is still some time before the need for additional funding, traders might take the plunge at about $.35 (though around $.42 many would bail).
    27 Nov 2012, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Since we'll never know, we can certainly enjoy our various theories as AXPW grinds toward 0.35.
    27 Nov 2012, 01:17 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17884) | Send Message
     
    Billa: my expected next pause and maybe reversal above $0.30 is $0.32-$0.33 area.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Nov 2012, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17884) | Send Message
     
    TB: Do we have any "strategic investors" outstanding? ;-))

     

    I wish they'd show their faces once in a while!

     

    HardToLove
    27 Nov 2012, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    While traders exist in all companies, there isn't much in Axion's performance over the past couple years to attract attention from hot money. So I continue to believe most holders are sock drawer types.
    27 Nov 2012, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13507) | Send Message
     
    Strategic thinkers come in all sizes...
    27 Nov 2012, 02:21 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    In my opinion, $0.39-0.40 will be the real test of resistance. That's the 10% gain point where we saw sales from the last stock offering at. If we ever push through that again, we'll be riding the stock to $0.50/share. IMHO
    27 Nov 2012, 03:20 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2778) | Send Message
     
    Yes, and (I hate to even make anyone aware of it, but), year-end selling of losses not resulting in wash sales could be big the rest of the month/year. Not that some of your are probably aware, but what the heck, how about some full disclosure.
    27 Nov 2012, 05:41 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1804) | Send Message
     
    I believe that fear is a bit overblown as funds sell well before the year end (Thanksgiving rally?), which also coincides when Axion selling finished. In addition, because of potential tax hikes, it will be more profitable to book losses next year than this year. Of course, if we reach the 40 cent level then the whole thing is moot because then few people will have losses from AXPW for 2012.
    27 Nov 2012, 05:53 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2431) | Send Message
     
    Princeton Power gets busy again ...

     

    Princeton Power Systems Develops a 2MW Inverter for the Department Of Energy
    November 26, 2012

     

    The 2MW system is designed to reduce installation costs

     

    http://bit.ly/UUD55f

     

    "The use of six DC ports creates an advantage over other systems as it eliminates the need for multiple inverters and transformers, thus meeting the goal to reduce installation and wiring costs."
    27 Nov 2012, 01:18 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2431) | Send Message
     
    Wow, UBSS offers 60K at .30, ATDF best 20K at .2999, and NITE still sitting 2.5K @ .30

     

    Somebody really doesn't want this to break .30!
    27 Nov 2012, 01:39 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1136) | Send Message
     
    who would want to keep a lid on the price here? people are taking 10% in a day imo. you sell 90% and the rest is gravy. i agree that there isn't going to be a lot of trading with AXPW but that doesn't mean someone sells a percentage of holdings @ 30 cents considering the 100 d moving average.

     

    @billa - there has been a reluctance to buy for months imo. a move +11% in a day doesn't read as buying pressure buying off. if we close <28 cents, maybe
    27 Nov 2012, 01:49 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Mathieu,

     

    Yes, there has been a reluctance to buy for months.

     

    But focusing specifically on resistance, there are holders who paid 0.30 and are hoping to make a profit. They seem not to have been willing to pay more than 0.30 when they bought, so it is reasonable to assume they are not willing to pay more now.

     

    So new buyers need to decide they want to own AXPW.

     

    Any of our holders who paid 0.30 who are going to sell at 0.30 or less have had ample opportunity to do that long ago, so once we break 0.30, which is nowhere near as strong of a resistance point as 0.35, then 0.30 will provide support, at which and above which we will accumulate more holders.

     

    Using the word accumulation more conventionally, once we break 0.30, buyers will be willing to accumulate at that level because there is support: a pool of holders unlikely to sell for 0.30 or less.
    27 Nov 2012, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1804) | Send Message
     
    I think a large number of .30 buyers are Axionistas, including myself. We bought expecting a near end to the selling. Now that the end seems clear, I see no reason to sell now just because cost price has been reached. I find it unlikely a large number of random non-Axionistas will be holding the fort at .30, unless they had bought under 25c and want to pare down overweight holdings. My guess is that the asks posted are for this very case, and we should grind through them as well.
    27 Nov 2012, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Ranma,

     

    There are as many rationales for buying and selling as there are buyers and sellers. On top of that it is hard for me to put myself in any other investor's shoes besides my own.

     

    FWIW, I am still accumulating a target of 100,000 shares. I don't mind paying more after the raise to round out my position if it is a strategic partnership, and I am waiting until the raise is announced in case it is an offering and I can save a couple of thousand dollars.

     

    Either way I will have my shares.
    27 Nov 2012, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17884) | Send Message
     
    *If* the ADVFN buy:sell is any kind of an indicator, which we don't know of course, there is no reluctance to buy. The following ratio says folks are hitting the bid at a relatively high rate, leading to ...

     

    Buy:Sell 13.45:1, VWAP $0.2960, Vol 334,582

     

    So, my take is profit-takers see willingness to buy, don't move their asks much (until later in the day).

     

    Through 14:14 EDT. Good volume. May have a for-real bullish sentiment buying spree going on here today.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Nov 2012, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3446) | Send Message
     
    True Axionistas are convinced that Axion is on an escalator to success, one that has been stalled yes but absolutely one that could start moving at any time. Moving up with velocity. And a vengeance. So far the drive gear has not been fully engaged, only bumps, grinds, and occasionally some exciting noises. But thus far mostly just frustrating (though understandable) delays and disappointment. Yet always something is churning underneath. And they're convinced that when the gear does finally engage for real, it's going to be a sustained rise to a whole 'nuther level. Which could be five floors up. No true Axionista wants to miss that ride. That's what they've been waiting for. They know it's coming. They just don't know when. It could be today, tomorrow, the middle of February, or next Summer...but it is coming. And one news release, one real contract, one unlooked for development could set it off. Or nothing at all. No one wants to risk missing that. So other than small trading blocks, I would say true Axionistas are thinking their first real exit is more like 3 dollars, not 30 cents...
    27 Nov 2012, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    Hi 481086

     

    "...I would say true Axionistas are thinking their first real exit is more like 3 dollars, not 30 cents"

     

    Also can be 30.oo Dollars and for Carlos 50.oo!!!
    27 Nov 2012, 02:44 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    If we were closer to the planned raise I wouldn't discount the possibility that a likely buyer was trying to keep the price down. With the raise contemplated sometime in Q1-13, November is awful early to be trying to push the price around.

     

    Unless you have a big pile of stock, it's hard to suppress price movements for very long, particularly if the emotional tide is changing and the change is likely to bring some of the watchers in from the sidelines.
    27 Nov 2012, 02:54 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Why anyone would bother trading a relatively illiquid stock for a couple of pennies is beyond me.

     

    And I am with 481086.

     

    We'll have to see how the stock is trading when we we get there, but 5.00 is the minimum I am thinking about taking at this point, and by minimum I mean the stock would have to be seriously stalled with not much chance of going anywhere in the foreseeable future.
    27 Nov 2012, 03:06 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2769) | Send Message
     
    Dec. is tax selling time.
    I think .35 would avoid most of that by wiping out losses for over 6 months.
    .40 would be above January 1 and avoid nearly all tax sales.
    If AXPW is near the low I'd expect the chart would hit it's low in Dec approaching or after Christmas.
    Probably the 16 - 30st.
    Personally I've been hoping TG set up the raise to not begin checking the stock price until Jan, as this is what happened last year and lowered the price he could get for the raise.
    27 Nov 2012, 07:54 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2644) | Send Message
     
    Apparently there is an Axion Power facebook page for a business in New Delhi ...

     

    http://on.fb.me/UUQ8DP
    27 Nov 2012, 01:58 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Fitting Axionista wear.

     

    http://bit.ly/QJzrOe
    27 Nov 2012, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1349) | Send Message
     
    New report on Trucking and Fleet Efficiency Technologies. There is a section on anti-idle devices on page 10:
    http://bit.ly/QJybus

     

    Much of the info will not be new to anyone reading Tim's contributions here on the concentrators.

     

    "Over the lifetime of a truck an electric APU can save as much as $56,000-61,000 with a payback period of approximately 18-24 months."
    They appear to endorse a lithium-ion electric APU over lead-acid. But they do not know about the PbC.
    27 Nov 2012, 02:02 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1136) | Send Message
     
    maybe someone writes a little blurb for popular science about the fleet test underway with PbC.
    27 Nov 2012, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • loueylouise
    , contributor
    Comments (18) | Send Message
     
    I post infrequently, but here is one that concerns me.
    Any one reading the Posting on Siltek and Axion on the other board ? I copy some of it because it is just easier.

     

    Axion Power 10 Q for MARCH 2012

     

    " In January, we were awarded a purchase order from Siltek, Inc. confirming their participation in a Zero Energy Building in the Washington D.C. Naval Yard. Axion will be providing an array of its PbC batteries, system electronics and battery management system that together will serve as an example ... "

     

    Axion Power 10 Q for JUNE 2012

     

    " In January, we were awarded a purchase order from Siltek, Inc. confirming their participation in a Zero Energy Building in the Washington D.C. Naval Yard. We have shipped and installed batteries and are coordinating our electronics ... "

     

    In July 2012, we completed the Siltek project for the Washington Naval Yard. The unit has been fully commissioned and tested and is currently functioning on a daily basis. Solar panels charge our PbC batteries and the energy is stored for use by the Naval office building.

     

    We are monitoring the project each day and reporting results.

     

    The electronics and system are the basic components of our PowerCube technology that we are quoting to potential customers in various sizes ranging from 50kwh to 4MWH. "

     

    But the posts on the other board seem correct, no mention in the September conference call or filing.

     

    Could they have possibly pulled the plug due to no UL
    certification ? Can you get insurance with no UL certification ?
    Could the insurance company have told them not to use it ?
    Did they stop using it ?
    27 Nov 2012, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Government usually self insures. This is a Navy project.
    27 Nov 2012, 02:26 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    I don't know that I've ever seen a stranger stream of illogic.

     

    Siltek was a small sale of PbC batteries that only merited mention because the installation was going into a Zero Energy Building at the Washington DC Naval Yard. The sale was completed, the batteries were delivered and the invoice was paid.

     

    Once the sale was completed, the ongoing stream of data the installation generates would never be considered material enough for discussion in an SEC report on quarterly financial results.

     

    It might make for an interesting white paper sometime down the road, but there's nothing to disclose or talk about.

     

    The PbC battery is already UL certified. So are the individual system components in the residential HUB. The only thing that's in process is getting UL Certification for a string of UL Certified components. While UL Certification is important for consumer products, it's completely irrelevant in the context of a Government building that was set up as a technology demonstration.

     

    You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill and doing a very poor job.
    27 Nov 2012, 02:26 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    " I don't know that I've ever seen a stranger stream of illogic."

     

    Sure you have John. That's why you don't post there any more. :)
    27 Nov 2012, 02:30 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4135) | Send Message
     
    I believe if one visits the Siltek Facebook page one can find information on performance of the installation. To wit, http://ow.ly/dX2gx is linked there with the text,
    " The Washington Navy Yard Visitor's Center is powering itself with absolutely no energy costs whatsoever. It's the next step in the Navy's plan to make half of all Navy installations net-zero energy consumers.

     

    Cmdr. Thomas McLemore, the public works officer for Naval Support Activity, Washington, joins In Depth to discuss the project and the broader Net Zero initiative. "
    27 Nov 2012, 02:41 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Loueylouise,
    Please understand that the person who is posting those comments over on Brand-X is doing so in a attempt to sew dissent and worry. OMY, or whatever he/she is calling himself/herself these days, is great at taking a "fact" and twisting it to make you doubt Axion. I promise you that if BMW announced that they were starting fleet testing in 200 vehicles using Axion's PbC battery, you would see posts ranging from questioning "how important are fleet tests really?", to "how many years will fleet testing take?", to questioning whether BMW really has any market share.
    27 Nov 2012, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    You're a gentleman and a scholar LabTech. Since I've already dealt with a string of similarly bizarre and convoluted comments from Louie on my main page articles, color me skeptical and cautious.
    27 Nov 2012, 03:46 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2769) | Send Message
     
    Lab by looking at the Louey's comments I'd say it's omy.
    27 Nov 2012, 08:10 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    froggey77,
    I always assume that anyone who posts OMY's fact twisting garbage outside of Brand-X is OMY using a different screen name. But it never hurts to give someone the benefit of the doubt, once, just in case.
    28 Nov 2012, 12:55 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4161) | Send Message
     
    loueylouise was the one person who participated in the share count survey that did not get sent results. Take that as you will.
    28 Nov 2012, 07:59 AM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1488) | Send Message
     
    "loueylouise" is a made-up screen name solely for the purpose of commenting on *anything* Axion. I've read through all his posts: All negative; all comments *only* on Axion, not a single comment elsewhere. Never *anything* positive to say. He prefers *not* to use his normal screen name. Take that as you will.....
    28 Nov 2012, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2769) | Send Message
     
    Lab
    Good attitude.
    29 Nov 2012, 09:16 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17884) | Send Message
     
    Here come the late-day profit-takers - hitting the bids, or nearly so, moving to $0.2902-4, 40.6K in several trades..

     

    HardToLove
    27 Nov 2012, 02:59 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2738) | Send Message
     
    sshhhhhhhhhh...stealth rally continues...good volume again, closed up nicely and on the daily high at 30 cents...back to sleep now...
    27 Nov 2012, 04:17 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3446) | Send Message
     
    Be vehwee vehwee quiet...we's huntin' elephants heah...
    27 Nov 2012, 04:33 PM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (356) | Send Message
     
    A jump to $0.35 and we hit many new radar screens
    27 Nov 2012, 05:00 PM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (356) | Send Message
     
    That said I have a bid in at $0.27.

     

    I expect to have to move it into the $0.30's as $0.27 should never be seen again

     

    Lastly if TG and team do not get us to a $1 in the next year we should be looking at replacing them

     

    Are the mechanics (a strong independent Board) in place or is the Board won over the management.
    27 Nov 2012, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2644) | Send Message
     
    dlmca,

     

    Question for you ... how long have you been following Axion?

     

    Thanks.
    27 Nov 2012, 06:45 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    Por favor, A question to all:

     

    What forms of financing available AXION POWER different issue shares and borrow money?

     

    Gracias-Carlos
    27 Nov 2012, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    The possibilities are basically unlimited, but the most likely route will be a sale of common stock.
    28 Nov 2012, 12:37 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17884) | Send Message
     
    Don't know if/when I can post next. GL to all.

     

    11/27/2012: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (in ~1 hour).
    # Trds: 91, MinTrSz: 100, MaxTrSz: 60000, Vol 435082, AvTrSz: 4781
    Min. Pr: 0.2799, Max Pr: 0.3000, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2956
    # Buys, Shares: 69 346272, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2965
    # Sells, Shares: 20 83810, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2915
    # Unkn, Shares: 2 5000, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.2960
    Buy:Sell 4.13:1 (79.6% “buys”), DlyShts (27.41%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 142.31%

     

    Purty good day. First, the unusual. All day long, up until the expected late-day profit taking began (around 15:35) we had bids moving up much more often than asks moving down, even with ATDF and NITE on the scene. Even after that began, at 15:45 we moved back to $0.2999 from the $0.2902-$0.2904 seen and closed with a final 12K trade at $0.30. This opens the door to the question: who gets taken out first – the steadfast sellers who held sway most of the day at $0.300 with little-to-no negotiation or the buyers? With volume only ~100K lower than yesterday's ~543K I think we have at least another day around this level – maybe more.

     

    On the traditional TA front, we see good volume with the 50-day SMA ($0.2832) solidly broken and our high ready to try and push through the descending resistance of our long-term trading channel, ~$0.304(?). We have a short-term rising support, originated at the low of $0.2018 on 11/12 with a touch at the low of 11/21 of $0.2325. Those are the only touches yet so we don't know it's strength. If it is good support, it's notable that it has crossed above the falling support of our descending trading channel, currently about $0.242. Our rising short-term support is ~0.247 and sloped ~0.004/day.

     

    Our trading range today was completely above an intermediate-term falling resistance originating at the high, $0.34, of 10/17 with a touch at the high of $0.29 11/15. Since we moved right through this over the last two days, we can surmise that it offers little chance of support if it is revisited. It's ~$0.271 today and slopes (~$0.01)/day. All the oscillators I follow are showing strong bullish tendencies: RSI ~68, MFI ~86.5, stochastic entering oversold at ~74.7 and even the ADX has finally arrived (on volume too!) with DI+ of 29 and DI- of 14. Need to see the ADX itself move now from it's current 24 to 30+. Last, my experimental 13-period upper Bollinger is being pushed. Should see at least one more day of that and, if we have a strong run started, could go much longer.

     

    On my experimental charts, the average trade size continues to suggest that the market-makers are having to work for their bread, as John suggested. No need to say much about today's buy:sell other than even with the late-day profit-taking it couldn't be depressed to levels we'd seen in the past. Selling pressure described as “weak” would be generous to the sellers. Take a look at the buy:sell averages on my experimental charts and I think you'll see good indications of bullishness developing.

     

    Based on today's price action I expected to see “reasonable” short sales. Came in at 119,272, 27.41%, continuing, I think, to recover to more “normal” as it moved above all the averages and long-term trend, all of which had been depressed by the recent abnormally low figures. If volume stays “good” we should see it start to stabilize somewhat. I also expected to see “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” show some strength as with the very high buy:sell the shorts I expected had to be to the high side of "sells", and they were.

     

    Volume, since the 16th, has been trending up nicely and today moved above all the averages.

     

    Looking at my experimental inflection point calculations gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. The trend suggested beginning around the 12th is apparently coming to fruition and gaining strength. Let's hope it's not just another few-days “blip” up followed by a retreat. I think not because the move has been long and strong enough to move all, including the newly added 200-day calculation, into an upward attitude.

     

    “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” stuff omitted here.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Nov 2012, 07:32 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9909) | Send Message
     
    HTL: Agreed that the 12th of Nov. was the inflection date, where us peon, plebian buyers have overtaken, literally out-bought and out-lasted the deep pocketed institutional sellers, even knowing about the coming cap raise, even without definitive sales.

     

    Wow! Wow! Wow!

     

    On that day I'm pretty sure that whomever had scads of shares they wanted to sell, was then down to a mere trickle.

     

    Just the idea that Class 8 trucks could potentially save 50% in fuel consumption, meshes well with Elliott Wave analysis. Timing is everything when it comes to charting. So is info.

     

    JP is more astute than I, but...

     

    If I was a newbie investor, I would be sinking a toe. And then sink more toes going forward.

     

    HTL: Travel well, and know that many of our hearts are with you. Your charting analysis knowledge campaign has been, and when you get back, an amazing study. Truly incredible.

     

    Wildest charting part is that I'm almost certain that now we are in, have begun, the very first Elliott Wave....upward.

     

    Would it not be totally crazy and zen-like bazaar that the lowest day of Axion share price ever to occur was on our zen-miester's birthday? Seems so apropos. I was hoping it would be Springer's and mine.
    27 Nov 2012, 09:52 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    The bi-monthly short sale data for November 15th was published last night – 5,643 shares – another wholly insignificant number.

     

    It's also worth noting that my 10-day VWMA (.2621) moved up through the 20-day VWMA (.2616) yesterday.
    28 Nov 2012, 12:47 AM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1488) | Send Message
     
    .... and we now have 170 followers in this space....
    28 Nov 2012, 01:59 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4607) | Send Message
     
    >Occam's_Razor ... Just 29 more & I can try to join on a round number.
    28 Nov 2012, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Ricardo assists EPA with MY2025 CAFE rulemaking

     

    "“We see micro-hybrids—meaning start-stop systems—being pretty much standard by 2025. Ricardo also expects continued market share growth for charge-sustaining hybrids and for plug-in hybrids over the next decade,” said Kasab, adding “the market share will likely reach 10-15% for electric-hybrids.”"

     

    http://bit.ly/SsGsQz
    28 Nov 2012, 05:15 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    Their ELBC presentation said that 12 Volt micro-hybrids would be "ubiquitous in regulated markets by 2015" and that 24-48 Volt micro-hybrids would be a "Major growth area after stop/start smart charge."

     

    http://bit.ly/UrsbWo
    28 Nov 2012, 05:34 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    Hi Mr John:

     

    From Page No 7: "...electrification of the powertrain are key elements of the automotive future".

     

    Another thing will think Ricardo (About Batteries) once ePOWER equip your 18 wheels truck with AXION POWER PbC.

     

    I also think, it is important that Ricardo not appoint the litium batteries in the presentation.

     

    Have a nice day-Carlos
    28 Nov 2012, 06:14 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    From RICARDO presentation:

     

    In the presentation mentioned: AGM Lead Acid battery plus supercapacitors to supports micro-hybrid operating modes.

     

    My questions:

     

    -.Ricardo engineers knows: Dynamic Charge Acceptance.
    -.Ricardo engineers knows: Lead Acid VRLA-AGM sulphation?
    -.Ricardo engineers attended 13ELBC Dynamic Charge Acceptance Workshop?
    -.Ricardo engineers knows what is AXION POWER PbC Tech?

     

    Thanks-Carlos
    28 Nov 2012, 09:07 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    Ricardo is a very big UK-based engineering firm with about 1,500 employees. While Axion and Ricardo both presented at the ELBC, it's hard to say how much Ricardo knows about the PbC, if anything. A lot of the ILA's work is done in the UK because that's where their headquarters is. There's no way to tell whether Axion has spent much time in the UK since it's earliest interest came from Germany.
    28 Nov 2012, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    I understand, but I think it is important that RICARDO send its engineers specialized in the field about training courses on batteries and a tour to New Castle.
    Another solution by RICARDO is to read:
    -.AXION POWER Seeking Alpha APC
    -.John Petersen Articles.

     

    I think the second solucion is better.

     

    Thanks-Carlos
    28 Nov 2012, 09:34 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    Every chance to educate a consulting firm like Ricardo takes an investment of high level staff time and money, and companies like Axion don't have enough of either. That means they have to be very careful about who they focus on and when. Right now the focus seems to be on potential customers who will use the PbC instead of consulting firms who may recommend it to a client if you spend enough time on education. I'm sure Axion will get around to Ricardo in due course, but I'd hate to push them to the head of the line if it meant spending less time with somebody like BMW, GM, NS, ePower, Freightliner or somebody else who's getting close to making a purchase decision.

     

    Even if Ricardo doesn't know Axion well, the odds are pretty good that at least a few of their people follow my work.
    28 Nov 2012, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    Some progress in Magnesium-ion batteries. http://bit.ly/WuMzU1

     

    I found the following statement made by Venkat Srinivasan, researcher and manager at Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, very familiar.

     

    "The impact of Toyota’s paper will be felt primarily within the research community, said Srinivasan. Commercialization of magnesium batteries is more than 10 years away, he says."
    28 Nov 2012, 05:28 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    Maybe some of our chemistry minded people could explain to me in simple English why materials that are highly reactive with water (lithium and Magnesium) make good electron storage materials? Maybe phosphorus would be good also?
    28 Nov 2012, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Good explanation here.

     

    http://bit.ly/Rj1nsp

     

    Periodic table.

     

    http://bit.ly/11dl5qr
    28 Nov 2012, 01:13 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2431) | Send Message
     
    Wonder whose batteries are used here ... though I guess the application doesn't have the type of dynamic charge acceptance requirements that would make PbC shine. Also it seems, not a win for ZBB which was attempting to play in this application.

     

    US Military Leads the Way in Developing and Implementing Mobile Clean Energy Technology

     

    July 18, 2012

     

    http://bit.ly/TsUm7F

     

    Tidbit: " A team of one trained expert and five or six local laborers can unpack the container and set up a functioning solar field within two hours. Once emptied, the trailer is equipped to double as a self-sufficient field operations facility. The whole unit can be packed up again on a moment’s notice, and transported to the next location, or can be transferred to the local population as part of the exit strategy to power the village long term with sustainable energy - an innovative application in "nation building" at the village level that is very attractive to special forces."

     

    Related:
    http://1.usa.gov/SdCvzb

     

    Soldiers using sunlight to improve combat capability
    November 14, 2012

     

    By David Vergun, ARNEWS

     

    "A fourth benefit, Kidd said, was "unintended" but, nonetheless, welcome.

     

    Soldiers in Afghanistan are using some "sophisticated" electronic equipment such as sensors and cameras "requiring high-quality power to maintain consistency in hertz and frequency," he said.

     

    "You don't get that (quality) when you're connected to (diesel) generators, but you do when you're connected to batteries. So, operational readiness rates of sensors and communications equipment have gone up dramatically wherever solar has been deployed."

     

    A fifth benefit is that Soldiers who have solar generators now have not only enough power for themselves, but enough to supply local Afghan villages, he said, and "this will help Special Forces' public engagement and village stability missions."
    28 Nov 2012, 08:31 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    I don't know who makes the batteries, but it's pretty clear that they're lead acid since the floor of the trailer will only hold 64 of them.
    28 Nov 2012, 08:50 AM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2769) | Send Message
     
    They could have easily put LA batteries with a diesel. But solar removes the delivery of fuel problems.
    29 Nov 2012, 09:34 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Now try to convince me we don't have some entity playing with Axion. I'm all ears! ;)
    28 Nov 2012, 10:00 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (657) | Send Message
     
    Looks to me like a MM could see a stop loss order and dropped the price to take advantage of it.
    28 Nov 2012, 10:09 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Perhaps but not that many shares changed hands as a result of the initial push down to .262 USD. Most occurred after that event. It was almost like someone was yelling fire in the room.

     

    Ahh well. Speculation. Isn't it grand? :)
    28 Nov 2012, 10:52 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    Market makers practice that particular skill and there's nothing they like better for fire drill practice than a neophyte who places an at the market sale order for more than the 2,500 share bid size.
    28 Nov 2012, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4135) | Send Message
     
    Will be interesting to see whether my 15K AON bid @$.295 executes and, if so, how long it takes. 2.5K on offer there at time of my bid according to OTCMarkets.com
    28 Nov 2012, 01:32 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Sorry if this was posted already. I smiled at the F alignment. GM burned Valeo big time the last time they tried to move into NA hard.

     

    Anyway, SS is coming one way or another.

     

    JV pushes Valeo to No. 2 HVAC supplier in N.A.

     

    "HVAC systems are undergoing a major makeover. As start-stop systems gain popularity, automakers need air conditioners that will operate when a vehicle's engine temporarily shuts off.

     

    Automakers also need heaters that will work in hybrid-powered vehicles, which don't generate much waste heat with their engines.

     

    Moreover, the EPA is offering automakers incentives to use more efficient air conditioners. Automakers earn CO2 credits if they use energy-efficient air conditioners that don't leak refrigerants into the atmosphere.

     

    "HVAC is becoming much more pivotal," Smith-Tilley said. "Everyone is battling to come up with solutions. We are in for interesting times.""

     

    http://bit.ly/SevWwg
    28 Nov 2012, 01:55 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (786) | Send Message
     
    It doesn't appear that it took very long!?!?
    28 Nov 2012, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (989) | Send Message
     
    I had an all or none order in for 10,300 shares at .2904 to start the day. When it didn't kick in, I replaced it with a market order of 10,500 shares at 11:50, which filled at .295.

     

    I just noticed that tens of thousands of shares traded hands before 11:50, and I'm not sure why my limit order did not kick in. I'm not going to worry about it. 10,500 more shares below .30 feels like a gift. Plus, they are now in very strong hands.
    28 Nov 2012, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4135) | Send Message
     
    Execution of my buy offer took about 3 minutes apparently, but OTCMarkets.com screen did not update for 20 minutes or more.

     

    Wayne, I agree re-shares below $.30.
    28 Nov 2012, 02:46 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    OTC Markets Runs on a 15 minute delay unless you subscribe to their Level II service.
    28 Nov 2012, 02:53 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4135) | Send Message
     
    Question. Federal production tax credits on wind turbine power production are set to expire Dec. 31. 30% tax credit on cost of renewable energy equipment installed in the year installed will continue until 2016 under current law. Seems likely these tax considerations could drive some residential HUB sales before year-end, but only if 1) HUB clears UL cert very early in the month and 2) multiple HUB units are already held in inventory ready for shipment. PowerCube sales could be similarly boosted where the PC is integrated with solar pv and/or wind turbine power generation.

     

    Reasonable or no?
    28 Nov 2012, 03:11 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1349) | Send Message
     
    I would love to see any linkage of a PC with wind power but still waiting on that. I am doubtful regarding December 2012.
    As for the HUB, are you talking about a residential wind turbine? I know those have not had a reasonable ROI thus far and I read very little about them in the news. . .so I am doubtful.
    28 Nov 2012, 03:19 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3446) | Send Message
     
    I'm thinking the type clientele who are prime candidates for the residential hub are probably not going to sweat the tax credits issue... Now they likely didn't get wealthy in the first place without being very savvy and cost-conscious, but it would just seem the low dollar amounts of any tax offsets involved in a 45K purchase are not really going to be what drives the decision...
    28 Nov 2012, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4135) | Send Message
     
    '086, I agree re-driving a decision on whether or not to install a HUB, but if one has already installed renewable energy systems in 2012 or will have one installed before year end availability of the tax credit might affect timing. That is, pull some sales from 2013 into 2012.

     

    DL, I agree re-residential wind turbines in many (most?) places, but integration with PV installations would look more appealing. PV panel prices are low due to oversupply and a HUB would enable more efficient use of PV power through storage of excess daytime power generation for use after dark.
    28 Nov 2012, 06:04 PM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (989) | Send Message
     
    My partner has slowly but surely become an Axionista over this past year (although she doesn't realize it quite yet). :) Anyway, I've been "funneling" a few more of the best comments from the APC to her recently, and it all resonates with her philosophy of socially responsible investing.

     

    Then a sort of light went on for her this morning regarding the potential to profit from this "socially responsible" investment. And decided to purchase another 20K shares, which I had described to her as a "gift" below .30. So, 20K more shares in very strong hands.
    28 Nov 2012, 03:23 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    If you put in an order for 60,000 shares @0.27, an MM will probably find a way to get it filled.

     

    Little 5k and 10k blocks go ATM.
    28 Nov 2012, 03:23 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    GM has announced its EV for the China market. The Sail Springo. The first joint venture EV vehicle in China? Price for the little car? Only $41,000 USD. Really? In China? Thank you very much but I will stick to the Condi by Kandi. Cheap but effective.
    http://bit.ly/StWlGr
    28 Nov 2012, 03:42 PM Reply Like
  • CO3
    , contributor
    Comments (250) | Send Message
     
    VW's idea for China roads
    http://bit.ly/10ZUaz8
    28 Nov 2012, 10:53 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    Although fuel efficienty I doubt that this new "bug" will ever be sold to the masses, due to price restraints. A magnesium frame can't be cheap.
    29 Nov 2012, 07:08 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    GM is working heavily on new processes for magnesium forming and corrosion protection. Traditionally magnesium has been used a lot for interior structural components but not so much for exterior apps due to poor corrosion characteristics.

     

    When you compare it to steel magnesium is expensive. But next to carbon fiber it's cheap. Higher fuel prices open up a whole new world of opportunity for light weight materials. Oh and the regs as well. I think the end result is vehicles will become more expensive and the lower tier buys will be forced further into the secondary market for their transportation needs (obviously).

     

    http://bit.ly/TnFy6G
    29 Nov 2012, 07:34 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1349) | Send Message
     
    iindelco said: "I think the end result is vehicles will become more expensive and the lower tier buys will be forced further into the secondary market for their transportation needs (obviously)."

     

    And public transit will improve and be more widely utilized.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:54 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5003) | Send Message
     
    DLane....this is also reinforced by GS recommendation and higher price target for one of the big used auto franchises this morning. You can find it on SA.
    There is much going on behind the scenes in public transit.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:59 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    D Lane, You're right on the money.

     

    And really, If you've ever had the opportunity to use a good public transportation system in an urban area it's most often so much better than dealing with individual choices. It just gets to a point, based on higher population concentrations, where the negatives of personal transport so far outweigh the positives for many needs.

     

    A camp fire is a fine choice to keep warm and cook when you're out in the wilderness. Nobody would suggest this as a great option in London or Paris. The right tool at the right time kind of mentality.
    29 Nov 2012, 09:04 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    LT, Spoke a couple years ago with an ex colleague that went into the auto sales biz. He was handling their internet sales channel. He made it quite clear that the dealership was making little money on new vehicle sales and their bread and butter came from used vehicles and service, period. The new vehicle sales kept the manufacture name(s) above the door and gave them a level of credibility.
    29 Nov 2012, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1349) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco and LT

     

    Well said! To those interested in potential investments in public transit I strongly recommend keeping an eye on Tom Konrad's blog at Forbes.com
    http://onforb.es/MYjpfO
    29 Nov 2012, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Futurist, Bumped into this article this am when looking for info. on fuel saving tech. in automotive. Mentions some of the future efforts on mass reduction in the industry. Thought it a good read on the topic.

     

    How to Build a Fuel Efficient Car: Make It Superlight

     

    http://bit.ly/TobSGt
    29 Nov 2012, 11:18 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco,
    Thanks for the article.I 'm a little skeptical of what the price of aluminum and magnesium will be if the auto industry has to produce twice as much of it as now. But those who believe that supply and demand is a fairytale, can imagine all the cheap great cars on the road in only a few years.
    29 Nov 2012, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Futurist, I hear ya on the supply/demand point for sure.
    29 Nov 2012, 12:32 PM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (356) | Send Message
     
    TG and management have a growing need to get AXPW stock price up if they are going the share sale route

     

    Perhaps this will take the governor off announcements going into the new year

     

    We know they have announcements - but can they share them

     

    28 Nov 2012, 04:03 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    "We know they have announcements - but can they share them"

     

    Well, we suspect they have some good announcements.
    We hope they have no bad announcements
    We pray that someday they will make a good announcement that they have no bad announcements.
    But they probably can't share that either. :-)
    28 Nov 2012, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (786) | Send Message
     
    Question for you technical people regarding the APU units for trucks. I am wondering how much of an issue it is to switch out the AGM batteries with the PbC? How much change in the electronics would be needed? How much time would it take to complete the re-engineering and have one up and running? A week? A month?

     

    Thanks
    28 Nov 2012, 06:31 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (786) | Send Message
     
    Also, I wonder how many ParkSmart APU units did Freightliner sell last year? I appologize If this has already been discussed but I am wondering if the ParkSmart does get switch over to the PbC battery for factory installed production units what does this mean for 2013 unit sales? Also, would 4 PbC batteries provide enough power for the 8 to 10 hours of suggested use or would they have to go up to maybe 6 PbC batteries?

     

    Thanks again?
    28 Nov 2012, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    "I am wondering how much of an issue it is to switch out the AGM batteries with the PbC? How much change in the electronics would be needed? How much time would it take to complete the re-engineering and have one up and running? A week? A month?"

     

    I am pretty sure all they would NEED to do is simply swap out the batteries. However, in order to take advantage of the PbC they will need to adjust some parameters in the programming for a wider voltage range to work within the sweet spot (40-80% DOD). They can also simplify the SOC calculations. The charge/discharge performance will be greater and they will need to tune for that. In other words, the swap out should be simple but the fine tuning could and should take awhile...
    28 Nov 2012, 10:47 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    "I wonder how many ParkSmart APU units did Freightliner sell last year? I appologize If this has already been discussed but I am wondering if the ParkSmart does get switch over to the PbC battery for factory installed production units what does this mean for 2013 unit sales? Also, would 4 PbC batteries provide enough power for the 8 to 10 hours of suggested use or would they have to go up to maybe 6 PbC batteries?"

     

    I think its too early to speculate. However, If the PbC is a design win then you might need to include International sales as well as the aftermarket sales of the NITE solution since they all use the same controller...
    28 Nov 2012, 10:59 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (786) | Send Message
     
    Tim,

     

    Thanks for the response, I appreciate it,

     

    RBrun357
    29 Nov 2012, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4135) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/WvRuUU - has links to different types of APUs and reviews.
    28 Nov 2012, 06:57 PM Reply Like
  • Bylo-
    , contributor
    Comments (414) | Send Message
     
    D-inv

     

    Thanks for the link. It's a true learning experience for me.
    29 Nov 2012, 10:16 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Scientists edging closer to creating 'holy grail' of renewable energy world

     

    "Alex Wonhas, director of the CSIRO's Energy Transformed Flagship, said he doubted technology alone would deliver the breakthrough needed.

     

    ''I think it's more a market issue,'' he said. ''The game-changer would be to appropriately value the network benefit that storage could create.''"

     

    http://bit.ly/RjGrSa
    28 Nov 2012, 07:46 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1349) | Send Message
     
    LOVE the link, iindelco! Very good all around article. Wonderful to see the Ultrabattery being wanted and a beautiful project. But the atoll is almost certainly doomed from the rising sea.

     

    ''There was also a fire at a sodium-sulphur battery installation in Hawaii last year and this was due to the use of molten sodium and molten sulphur in this system that are both extremely hazardous,'' she said.

     

    Xtreme Power anyone? They've been rumored to be lead based but perhaps not. More likely the speaker is mixing a sodium-sulphur fire that occurred in Japan (2011) with the Xtreme fire in Hawaii (I believe 2012)
    28 Nov 2012, 08:08 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    D Lane, I saw the reference to sodium-sulpher. I think they are confusing the Hawaiian incident with the one in Japan as you suggest.
    28 Nov 2012, 08:32 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    The service life of a PbC battery is longer than an UltraBattery's, no?

     

    Because PbC electrodes do not sulfate?

     

    So the natural step for East Penn is to partner with Axion ... unless they want replacement sales more than extended service lives for their customers.
    28 Nov 2012, 09:13 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    billa,
    That depends on what their sales goals are for the UltraBattery. They are already the main distributor of the UltraBattery and have probably spent a fair amount of money for production. I doubt they are just going to want to drop that to start selling the PbC for storage purposes. They maybe more willing to do so for auto, but time will tell.
    29 Nov 2012, 10:55 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    The Ultrabattery is best for energy applications while the PbC is best for power applications. There's plenty of room for the two technologies to co-exist because they're more complimentary than competitive.
    29 Nov 2012, 11:04 AM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Got it.

     

    The article in this thread is about energy storage solutions.

     

    PbC's particular star might be better hitched to stop-start than UB's, which was the unspoken question behind my post.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:54 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    There are several classes of stationary storage. The kinds of installations the Ultrabattery is focused on involve discharge periods of one to several hours where the applications the PbC is focused on tend to involve discharge periods of 15 to 60 minutes.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:59 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Elevators.

     

    I don't know enough about electrical engineering or elevators to have a clue what might be the best regen technology to make them more efficient --- flywheels, batteries, hydraulics, buckets of stones --- but there sure are a lot of them, and an effective solution might make someone a lot of money.
    28 Nov 2012, 07:48 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Here's a nice read on the topic.

     

    Regenerative Elevator Drives: What, How and Why

     

    http://bit.ly/TpJx2g

     

    Here's Otis elevators offering. Otis is a big supplier in the elevator industry.

     

    http://bit.ly/QrhJ0M
    28 Nov 2012, 08:09 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1136) | Send Message
     
    iindelco, thanks for your many contributions. you are a big reason i compulsively check comments on this concentrator.
    28 Nov 2012, 08:45 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Great articles, iindelco. Thank you for the post.

     

    Probably the most eye-opening aspect of the story for me is how regen'ed power from elevators is recycled to the building's internal electricity grid.

     

    That's something I never knew before or would have thought of on my own. Usually we're thinking about dumping power back onto the utility's grid, and this scheme is really cool by comparison.
    28 Nov 2012, 09:05 PM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    iindelco, how you manage so many links and knowledge on web is a mystery to me. I can only image you as a man with 3 heads, dozens of ears and 1000 helping hands, maybe like Avalokitesvara buddha http://bit.ly/10ZyAL6.
    28 Nov 2012, 09:28 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Mathieu, I'm glad you find some use from the on topic stuff I post. I obviously enjoy following the sector. This group with its many contributors and good discussion makes it so much easier for all of us. Lot's of varying expertise to allow us to digest what we are following. Hopefully we'll also be rewarded with more than just knowledge at some point!

     

    Some of my off topic stuff, Well, I can try harder not to clutter the board! :(
    28 Nov 2012, 11:04 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    billa, I was surprised by that as well. Also note, as Rick pointed out, the counterbalance that reduces the energy required in the system. But some of those elevators really get some speed and thus with that and the added load there has to be some pretty good energy returned during the braking process. I'd think they are using some storage to smooth things out some.
    28 Nov 2012, 11:09 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    BugEYE, I've been following the sector for a long time so I have a pretty full set of links to scan for articles that might interest us in our quest to understand this sector. Some is applicable and some tangent.

     

    No psychologists in the family so no help with the addiction! ;))
    28 Nov 2012, 11:16 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    iindelco,

     

    I got the impression that the amounts of power regen'ed are so small and intermittent that the building's internal grid will absorb them transparently without any need to store or smooth them.
    28 Nov 2012, 11:29 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    Way back in the old days I asked Tom about energy storage for elevators and he indicated that it was a tough economic proposition because they're so well balanced. Given Tom's relationships in the elevator industry I have to believe Axion would enjoy a significant advantage if a market develops.
    28 Nov 2012, 11:36 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1349) | Send Message
     
    School buses fined for excessive idling
    http://bit.ly/V2lEjp
    Idling in Connecticut is limited to three minutes and five minutes in Rhode Island. The companies will pay a $35,000 penalty and perform environmental projects valued at $131,000.
    28 Nov 2012, 09:50 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    D Lane, Interesting. Now there is a big market with tons of older equipment. Don't know how the taxpayers are going to afford the upgrades though. In my school district in the N.E. lots of stops requiring heat in the winter. Can't imagine they will be turning the buses off before they are upgraded. Cooling is not on most buses but is a mandated requirement for special needs students.
    28 Nov 2012, 11:22 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2644) | Send Message
     
    Kind of a random idling study on Motor Coaches in the DC area

     

    http://1.usa.gov/Tv2QtS

     

    CONCLUSION
    This field observation found that the majority of motor coaches in Washington, DC idle their engines. Of this majority, over 80% idled beyond Washington, DC’s idling law limit. The average idling time ranged from 15-22 minutes with several instances of idling greater than one hour.

     

    Motor coaches were found to idle throughout the Washington, DC metropolitan area. This study focused on observing buses at eight popular tourist sites. However, motor coaches have been observed to park and idle at almost any available parking spaces in the city.

     

    Fines can be up to $5,000.
    28 Nov 2012, 11:31 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Stefan, Looks like there is tons of opportunity for aux. power sources in the transport industry. How fast it's serviced might depend on factors like budgets, fuel prices and enforcement of existing legislation. So many opportunities......for the future.

     

    Hopefully we can get some added attention from the educated trial and error guys. The entrepreneurs are a good bunch to work with while waiting for the takes forever giants.
    29 Nov 2012, 06:03 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1349) | Send Message
     
    One of the reasons for idling buses as I understand it is the nature of diesel engines. At least older ones. Does the PbC offer a solution here in the same way it does for idling OTR trucks with sleeping drivers?
    29 Nov 2012, 10:23 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    IINDelco,
    I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like the EPA was having issues with the bus companies leaving the busses idling when they weren't on routes. We've got a bus stop just up the road from our house where at least half a dozen school busses stop. None of them stop for more than a minute or two to drop off or pick up kids. Considering that traffic has to stop in both directions every time a school bus stops, I can't believe they are stopping for more than 5 minutes during their routes. I'm guessing it's more an issue in the morning while they are warming up the busses or before they pick up the kids at the end of the school day.
    29 Nov 2012, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1025) | Send Message
     
    Exactly. Its not on the bus stop exactly. Its at the start-end of these routes.

     

    Think of the # of busses sitting at the school 15 minutes before school lets out and stays there for 10 minutes after when they leave. At my kids elementary school there is 6 busses each day that are there for 30 minutes. Multiply that by hundreds of thousand of schools and its a lot of wasted idling.

     

    My mother had never been to Washington DC and therefore agreeed to chaperone a middleschool trip to DC over the summer. Between stops the bus ran idle the entire time so that the bus wouldn't be too hot for the driver and or kids when they got back on.
    29 Nov 2012, 11:28 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Labtech, True. Thanks.
    29 Nov 2012, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    New R&D jet engine design. http://on-msn.com/QrqzLO

     

    I know this is a little OT for here, but they think it will be 3 years for a small working model and 10 years for commercial app. Sound familiar?
    28 Nov 2012, 09:51 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Stilldazed,
    The problem won't be the engine. The problem will be designing a jet plane that will not break apart at those high speeds.
    29 Nov 2012, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    As John and others always point out. China consuming 41% wow.

     

    Copper Shortage Seen Extending as China Accelerates: Commodities

     

    http://bloom.bg/RjYK9A
    28 Nov 2012, 10:57 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    I got a note last night the ePower project is moving forward after they lost a few days to a generator issue. Axion's team was apparently on site yesterday and the truck should be on the road early next week.
    28 Nov 2012, 11:48 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2738) | Send Message
     
    So we may have two announcements next week, or one and then another the week after---the ePower truck (and TG mentioned, "I hope the press is here" during the conf call) and UL certification for the HUB ("early December" per TG).

     

    All the while, other announcements are getting closer, too---also from 11/15/2012, "We believe that the announcement of the first confirmed projects, for these various Axion Cube applications, will be made over the next several months." and hopefully the APU battery testing ("Axion is aiming to begin in-vehicle APU system testing with lead-carbon hybrid battery/supercapacitor modules by 2013") will be announced soon, too.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:04 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    MR I,
    While I hope your right, I would sooner just sit and wait without expectations. They will happen, just in their own sweet time.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:10 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2738) | Send Message
     
    Stilldazed, I can feel the building anticipation of some here, so with the slight ePower delay, I hope the enthusiasm we've seen in the stock action recently continues. Either way, the series of catalysts that's just about to begin should provide a nice boost, IMO.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:26 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4135) | Send Message
     
    That is very helpful, JP. The continuing delay had become concerning since TG cc commentary included mention of shipping the batteries on Nov. 7. Announcement of a PbC populated, operational hybrid truck this week was anticipated.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:40 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    MR I,
    I am not meaning to be negative, but Murphy seems to have a lot of attention on this stock and things seem to take longer than we think they should. So I try to be balanced and relaxed, it is going to happen, I don't want to set myself up to be disappointed as to when. Wasn't it just last year when enthusiasm built to a fevered pitch, just to have e-friends having terse words and some hard feelings for awhile from the let down of no news and no movement of the stock. I hope to be pleasantly surprised when things do take off. I guess this is my sock drawer mentality. I can feel the excitement of all the potential around us, it will happen, in its own sweet time.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:53 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3446) | Send Message
     
    The dude abides. I take comfort in that...
    29 Nov 2012, 03:04 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    From my point of view, the most attractive aspect of the ePower project is a different mentality from what we've seen in the past. In Axion's projects with big outfits like BMW and Norfolk Southern, the customer's attitude has been "let's quietly study this idea for a couple years and then make a decision."

     

    The attitude at ePower and its potential customers seems to be more like the attitude I used to see in the oil industry – "Let's build a few of these suckers, put them on the road and see how they work in the real world."

     

    The buyer of the first two trucks operates a 150 unit fleet, owns a tow truck and is willing to assume the capital risk of a buying a couple of experimental trucks in an effort to bring his fuel costs under control.

     

    ePower has apparently encountered similar thinking from several other fleet operators, including some very recognizable names. If the PbC performs as everyone hopes it will, this could rapidly evolve into a grass roots movement where small business responds to the needs of other small to medium sized enterprises instead of hide-bound big business evaluating the risk-reward profile of an entirely new approach or product line.
    29 Nov 2012, 03:25 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    JP,
    I agree that this is old fashioned free enterprise and American ingenuity at its finest. I can't remember who said it but the quote goes something like this " while you study it to death, someone else is building it".
    29 Nov 2012, 04:32 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    .... this could rapidly evolve into a grass roots movement where small business responds to the needs of other small to medium sized enterprises...

     

    Whoa! This makes too much common sense for the USG to support this type of technology or effort. The amount of money each truck could save on fuel costs is pretty significant more compared to a hybrid automobile,

     

    By using common logic, if each truck on the road uses 20 times the fuel of an automobile per year (imagine it is much more than this) then each truck that changes to an ePower drive should be eligible for a $150,000 tax incentive ($7,500 times twenty). If there are 2,000,000 tractor trailers on the road and 50% of them responded to this incentive - and actually who wouldn't, that would mean 1,000,000 trucks multiplied by $150,000 is equal to only $450,000,000,000 and that is only an insignificant $500 per person cost (assuming 300,000,000 living in U.S.)

     

    Nah, I prefer free enterprise.
    29 Nov 2012, 05:41 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    Their figures show an annual fuel savings per vehicle of 11,000 to 14,700 gallons depending on assumptions relating to miles driven. Since a Leaf will only save 400 gallons compared to a CAFE compliant conventional vehicle, there's a lot of sense to your $150,000 tax subsidy argument.

     

    Now that would be an attractive proposition to owner operators. Spend $70,000 on the retrofit, get $150,000 from Uncle Sugar and pare your annual operating costs by $35,000 to $50,000.

     

    Step away from the hopium pipe John. Just say no!
    29 Nov 2012, 06:02 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    John, Thanks for the update. TG may want to use more general target timing in his efforts to prognosticate implementation timing. Were it not for your connections I'd have been rolling my eyes. :(

     

    "I got a note last night the ePower project is moving forward after they lost a few days to a generator issue."

     

    Is the system is complimented by an auxiliary generator? Or is this the primary unit off the engine. Or perhaps to service their shop down the road from the mason jar sweet nectar factory?
    29 Nov 2012, 06:11 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    Their basic configuration is a 197 hp diesel engine paired with a 128 kw generator and a 150 hp electric motor. It apparently takes 125 hp to run an 80,000 pound vehicle on the flat and level. The 52 PbC batteries provide the auxiliary power for acceleration from a standing stop and for hill climbing.

     

    It's definitely not meant for the Rockies, but the first buyer generally runs north - south routes from a base in Iowa.
    29 Nov 2012, 06:21 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Oh, That's right. Sorry, It's early before my brewed stimulant. I'm definitely asleep at the wheel on that query!
    29 Nov 2012, 06:28 AM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2760) | Send Message
     
    I do like the "give er a try attitude" of these smaller players. And that Axion seem to be embracing this as well.

     

    However, I wonder why Axion wasn't rounding up these pennies and nickels earlier. I'd think testing will be weeks/months, and not the years necessary that the BIGs require, and then orders placed. Also there isn't the supply chain issues either with smaller players.

     

    I'm all for the Big Benjamin 8 figure order someday but these smaller type accounts can help keep the cash burn under control. I can only imagine what a few million dollars in annual PbC revenues (from small players) could do while we wait on the OEMs to come in over the next few years.
    29 Nov 2012, 06:46 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    It's always a chicken or egg problem. Without the years of testing that Axion's done with the big players, it would have a very hard time getting the small players to assume the PbC performs as advertised. Now the small guys can look at the PbC and say "it survived three years of torture from the giants, so it should be good enough for us too." When I first introduced ePower to Axion it was too early for both companies. Axion still needed to get its manufacturing down and ePower needed some more trial and error on the design and getting its customers in place. Now the timing seems much more conducive to actually doing business.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    John, That's a good point. Many of these more immediate opportunities are a result of the respect the product deserves given what other highly respected industries (players) with known test cycles have put the technology through. Good to remember that point as it's a very important point indeed.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:45 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    I think it's safe to say that life would be a good deal more difficult if BMW or NS had come back with a NO after a few months.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:55 AM Reply Like
  • Bill Burtchaell
    , contributor
    Comments (412) | Send Message
     
    JP, I check your post fairly frequently, however I missed the ePower project info. Can you fill me in or link me to some background on this project?
    29 Nov 2012, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1694) | Send Message
     
    As my Granddad used to say, "From your mouth to God's ear".
    29 Nov 2012, 11:42 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    Bill> I've made several Instablog comments since Tom Granville mentioned the project in general terms in the CC. A little bit more color was provided by a Rosewater press release a couple days later.

     

    I'm in contact with ePower's management and hope to write something more definitive in the next few days. Until then the only thing I can suggest is that you might want to go back to Concentrator 175 and search for the term ePower in #175 and subsequent concentrators.

     

    My comments contain a decent amount of detail and Tim Enright's add substantial color.
    29 Nov 2012, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3446) | Send Message
     
    John, I gotta say, if 150Hp is the max available power that can ever go to the wheels then that *sounds* like pretty weak sauce for any grade at all... but they must know what they're doing and where they plan to do it so obviously we shall see...
    29 Nov 2012, 01:15 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    I don't know enough to have an opinion, but I have to believe 150 hp at the differential is different from 150 hp in front of a transmission.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    48,
    I may be wrong, but I think you misread John's comments (or I am). As I understand it, the 150 hp electric motor is acting as a booster motor for the 197 hp diesel engine. On the flats the truck can just run on the electric motor, but on inclines the electric motor augments the 197 hp engine, so you don't need a bigger diesel engine all the time.

     

    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:34 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2738) | Send Message
     
    JP---really look forward to your info about ePower developments. What a great resource to this blog. The more info on end-user demand, especially, the better. It's been a rare treat to already have a glimpse or two of that. Quick "time to revenue" is a major strength of this project, and the more that point is communicated and expanded, the better.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    LabTech> the ePower truck is a pure series hybrid where the diesel engine is connected to a generator and the generator, augmented by 52 PbC batteries, powers the electric drive motor.

     

    There is no direct connection between the diesel engine and the drive wheels.

     

    The generator and drive motor are apparently able to run for extended periods at 120% of rated capacity, but ePower's goal was to optimize fuel economy in the 90% of the country where the terrain is relatively flat and the best way to do that is with low power components that do the required work and nothing more.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1349) | Send Message
     
    LabTech, its a series set-up so the diesel genset is not connected to the wheels. It just produces electricity for the motor.

     

    48, the strength of the electric motor is its torque, no? Thats what gets you up the hill. DRich, HTL, ii, or Tim will jump in here and explain it again.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:43 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3446) | Send Message
     
    I'm in the same opinion class certainly, but just surprised.... was thinking that the motor would have been more like twice that... but on second thought, I guess it's torque that matters most for the intended regimes and so that motor must have plenty enough.. In any case, seems like they have really optimized for fuel economy and thus what they have must be truly specialized for certain terrain profiles...
    29 Nov 2012, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3446) | Send Message
     
    Ah, I see, well 120% -- 180Hp, does put a bit hotter steam to the blade so that makes more sense..

     

    And always key to remember that Power, which is rate of energy delivery (or consumption) = torque x rpm = speed x force.

     

    So to get a feel, examining that 125 Hp figure: 125 Hp x 550 ft-lb/sec = 68,750 ft-lbs per second..

     

    And 60 mph, which is 316,800 feet per hour, or 316,800 feet per 3600 seconds, reduces to 88 feet per second..

     

    So that means that it must take (68,750 ft-lbs per second divided by 88 feet per second) ~781 lbs of pulling force to keep a truck running at 60mph just on the flat, with no hill climbing. So that's what aerodynamic drag and rolling friction does to you, wow....
    29 Nov 2012, 02:23 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Well, that will teach me (again) not to assume I know what the heck I'm talking about! Thanks for the correction.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:27 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    If I try to put the ePower horsepower into perspective, my brother was an owner/operator for 30 years, and I believe his truck in the late seventies had a Cat 3 1/4 (325 hp). As I recall it was a pretty decent sized motor for that time and he traveled frequently in the mountains. IIRC, 250 Cummins was a pretty common engine in the early 70's, at least on the plains of Kansas, but would have been fairly slow going in the mountains. Others would have better insight/recall on this issue.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:55 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3446) | Send Message
     
    The infernal iron triangle: You can do it well, fast, or cheap. Pick any two. ;)
    29 Nov 2012, 03:37 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9909) | Send Message
     
    Metro: Kansas is not as flat as everyone may think. From extreme western Kansas, you actually drive down hill to the mile high city of Denver.

     

    Basically, from eastern Kansas, to western Kansas, you go up about about 6000+ feet. Very "rolly-polly" along the way, and quite possibly an excellent Interstate for the PbC.
    29 Nov 2012, 04:34 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    Maya,
    Parts of eastern Colorado are higher than Denver, but Kansas' highest point is the 4,039 ft hillock of Mt. Sunflower. You wouldn't even realize you are there. My western part of the state is very flat, but further east becomes hilly where the PbC should shine. Running west to east across Kansas should get "our" truck some excellent fuel mileage and with the battery reserve should be good enough to take any hill on the interstate with some style.
    29 Nov 2012, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3446) | Send Message
     
    Considering all, it's still way cool that they've produced the means to pull a semi with what is basically a (healthy) car-sized engine. America! F-yeah!
    29 Nov 2012, 05:16 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9909) | Send Message
     
    metro: My mistake. When I was driving across Kansas years ago, it was in a huge blow...near hurricane force winds from the northwest, tumbleweeds bouncing and flying across the I-State by the thousands. Walls of tumbleweeds stacked up along the fences. It was an intense and yet fun battle to avoid them. Both of my Jeep fog lights got smashed in, and no tractor trailers were allowed on the highway that day. This was all under a cloudless sky.

     

    What I do recall, as you pointed out, that approaching Denver from the east, I went downhill into Denver. I guess time has warped my memory of that very memorable drive, as to exactly where the state line was. I do recall that western Kansas and eastern Colorado were beautiful, in a barren kind of way. The amount of hills in Kansas I did not expect to see. In PA, those hills would be called mountains.

     

    I agree. On I-70 in Kansas, the PbC should excel.
    29 Nov 2012, 05:27 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2169) | Send Message
     
    Torque is what does the pushing. HP is useful in evaluating the maximum capability of an engine but it's the torque curve, torque verses RPM, that the driver is really interested in. So comparing power output between an electric motor and an ICE is NOT straightforward. I have seen comparisons of "equal" motors and ICE engines that gave the electric motor credit for twice the HP of the ICE in usefulness. Tricky.

     

    An electric motor usually produces maximum torque at low or ZERO speed. Even with a the best transmission, clutching and shifting will not give an ICE the type of torque an "equal" electric motor can produce at lower speed.

     

    Finally, you can heavily overload an electric motor for short periods of time if the power controller is designed for it. Usually it's heat that limits the longer term power output. If you monitor the temperature of the "heat limited" portion of the motor and/or power electronics you can do interesting things over seconds to a few minutes. Just be prepared to stop if you push the system to the over-temp condition :-)

     

    IMHO. I am NOT an electric motor designer, etc.
    1 Dec 2012, 12:53 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    I recall the Massey Ferguson 510 combine and one version had a 90 hp Perkins diesel and another gas version with a 327 Chevy that was rated with quite a few more horsepower than the Perkins. The Perkins ran at a steady rpm without even flinching, where the 327 Chevy was all over the rpm curve. That is where I learned about the importance of torque.
    1 Dec 2012, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    Hi Metro,
    327 Chevy? Your age is showing.
    1 Dec 2012, 02:19 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    Stilldazed,
    obviously you have not looked at his picture. :-)
    1 Dec 2012, 09:08 PM Reply Like
  • dharmabumvida
    , contributor
    Comments (9) | Send Message
     
    I haven't seen it posted yet, so I figured I would share that AltoonaWorks Facebook page linked to John Petersen's SA article about Axion. I try to like all their posts about the NS999/Axion to give them motivation to post more updates. If you are interested in liking or commenting on the post scroll down on the AltoonaWorks FB page until Nov. 24.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:00 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2738) | Send Message
     
    Nice catch, dharma---I had already read and "liked" the FB post, but figured someone here already had brought it to our attention.

     

    The continued education of folks there about the PbC is a good thing, IMO. It's an enthusiast's site, so hopefully some of them will even become AXPW investors. We could eventually get a whole new group of holders out of it. And it's a big group--over 6,000 likes and growing. Can u imagine what might happen to them when the NS999 proves itself out?

     

    And to truck and automobile enthusiasts when the PbC proves itself out there, too?
    29 Nov 2012, 11:53 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1025) | Send Message
     
    As much as they are fans and we can recommend them to John's and others articles I'd like to keep the foamers off here. They make the Tesla fanboys look tame.

     

    http://bit.ly/QPPme3
    29 Nov 2012, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2738) | Send Message
     
    We could use as many new investors as possible. If any, whether Altoona FB page ones or otherwise, come here and spout off, then I think APH will continue to do a great job of weed-wacking 'em.

     

    I figure we'll have a whole slew of new posters by this time next year. I look forward to their due dilly contributions as well as their investment money. As far as the due dilly part, we're missing insider commentary from some of the biggest prospective customer groups, such as PC. Would be great to better see what's happening there.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:53 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    mrholty.
    foamers! A new term for me. I hope they are as excited to see the NS999.
    29 Nov 2012, 03:27 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Looks like AONE never lined up DIP financing to keep their customers satisfied.

     

    BTW, This is a good example of why auto companies like multiple sources for their needs. If this was a large scale automotive concern they would have been forced to be the lender of last resort to keep plants running. Also the reason Axion needs a deep pockets experienced partner for large scale automotive.

     

    Fisker Awaits A123 Battery Plant Sale to Resume Karma Assembly

     

    http://bloom.bg/Y9clDO
    29 Nov 2012, 06:23 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    A123 started with DIP financing from JCI which got bumped out of the DIP lender role by Wanxaing. They didn't get final approval to access the DIP money until Monday of this week.

     

    http://reut.rs/SgzKx6?
    29 Nov 2012, 06:36 AM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2760) | Send Message
     
    Yup, it also gives a good heads up on why design changes don't happen quickly. I think the article even mentioned that it would take over a year to evaluate other supplier options.

     

    Kind of lends more credence to the oft criticized BMW progression with the PbC (which really isn't so bad after one does a deep dive on these issues.)
    29 Nov 2012, 06:38 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Thanks John.

     

    Good thing to after the post Sandy sales boom on the Karma. A reprieve? Time will tell.
    29 Nov 2012, 06:49 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    From my point of view, the price of the AXION in the market will rises steadily after the following:

     

    -.ePOWER run the first truck with AXION PbC batteries.
    -.AXION equip the first APU-truck with AXION PbC batteries.
    -.Rosewater gets the HUB-UL certification and put the first order.
    -.NS put on the switcher-loco (NS999) the PbC batteries and the PR.

     

    Por favor, thoughts (Opiniones).

     

    Thanks-Carlos
    29 Nov 2012, 07:54 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    Carlos,
    Only addressing your above comments, I tend to think that a significant price rise may be further along the cycle where:
    -order of further batteries from ePower with accompanying announcement of firm orders for trucks.
    -order for batteries for APU's with announcement by OEM
    -announcement of multiple order for HUB's.
    -order for NS999 clones and announcement.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:09 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    In Q-3 of 2010:

     

    Ener1 had a $554 million market cap with TTM sales of $46 million;
    Valence had a $161 million market cap with TTM sales of $17 million;
    Altair had a $145 million market cap with TTM sales of $6.2 million;
    A123 had a $1 billion market cap with TTM sales of $95 million; and
    Maxwell had a $386 million market cap with TTM sales of $110 million.

     

    It isn't so much the existence of substantial sales that counts as the expectation of substantial sales growth.

     

    Most of Axion's potential customers want to keep their activities deeply secret. I'm not sure that the truck projects will require the same level of obscurity.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:42 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4135) | Send Message
     
    Carlos, I agree with your basic assessment that share price will rise steadily in the wake of developments mentioned. And, taking Metro's assessment as addressing magnitude and rate, rather than direction, of change I agree with him as well.

     

    PR on an ePower vehicle pulling a Class 8 vehicle will IMO firm AXPW price a bit. Positive PR on an ePower vehicle performance in pulling a commercial load would firm share price a bit more. ePower announcement of orders for more trucks would put AXPW share price on steriods. For someone to sight NS999 moving under its' own power would firm share price for the simple reason that it would signal $400K or more in PbC sales revenue. HUB certification and sales would do the same. Let multiple events happen in a short few weeks and the market might well think it time to board a boat because the boy plugging leaks in the dike has run out of fingers.

     

    Part of me, though, hopes positive developments don't materialize before January 2. :-) Share price gains by December 31 will raise my minimum IRA withdrawal requirement.
    29 Nov 2012, 11:38 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2738) | Send Message
     
    JP---Big thumbs up on both points.

     

    To the first, I would add that apm's term, "time to revenue" is way more important than many here first realized, but have come around to accept it's importance.

     

    To the second, I would add that your posts about ePower alone have disclosed more than we typically get from Axion's auto and rail projects. Also, I would hope to hear more about the HUB than usual, too.
    29 Nov 2012, 11:42 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    metro:

     

    There are days where it's hard to write well.

     

    Have a good day-Carlos
    29 Nov 2012, 08:16 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    Carlos,
    Wasn't trying to be critical, just my expectations for a price increase are further along the cycle. If you want a laugh, you should read my written Spanish and even funnier is my accent. I think you do pretty well.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:18 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Carlos,& Metro, I'd add to the list of things that might help get the price to appreciate the fact that Axion needs to get the financing behind them. Be it some form of partnership or another offering it's close so it's being watched heavily.

     

    Irrespective of the offering price I'm hoping the vehicle to added funds is some form of agreement with a partner for sure. Becomes even more important given that TG made it public as a mission statement.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:28 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (657) | Send Message
     
    Carlos,

     

    I admire anyone who can speak or write in a language other than their mother tongue. I have studied 5 languages in addition to English. I can't write or speak any of them nearly as well as you write English.

     

    In response to your post, I am hopeful that all of the good news we have been getting will finally move the price upward. I also believe the inflection point of supply and demand is about to take place. Hopefully JP's posts about the need of a change of mind regarding bottom feeding will help to nudge us to gradually pay a little more. So far this week has potential to indicate a change is taking place. If we can keep the average of a penny per trading day increase the price would be around 50 cents by the end of the year.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:49 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    I will admit that my mind has been somewhat troubled by financing concerns.

     

    But the more I hear about trucking and hub, the less I am troubled. Even with small expectations for truck and hub over the next year.

     

    Truck and hub, with just a little bit of financing, could provide the perfect bridge to get us to auto and rail.

     

    Auto is the game changer that will make Axion but it won't happen until late 2013 or 2014. Even locomotive isn't going to be significant until late 2013, more likely 2014.

     

    When we get those big auto orders (and we will!) we're going to have a lot of lead time and will have no problem raising funds to boost production either by a JV with the automaker or a JV with a tier 1 batterymaker or by anyone else with the ability to realize that once we have auto we have it made.

     

    BUT, until then...

     

    We just need a combination of truck, hub and financing to keep the doors open.

     

    And the more truck and hub we get (or the more certain truck and hub sales expectations become), the less financing we need. And the less we need financing.

     

    Based on this logic, I'm feeling very good about Axion these days. Maybe that should worry me. :)

     

    D
    29 Nov 2012, 10:21 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2738) | Send Message
     
    D McHattie---one thing mitigating the financing risk to us current shareholders is what you might call the '2/2012 placement investors' dilemma'. To the extent that those investors would also be the early 2013 investors, yes, they could sell some of their current holdings in an attempt to repurchase at a cheaper deal price. But in so doing, unless they do so with firm word that the deal will be done with them and very soon after they sell, then they risk lost opportunity due to IMO the increasing chance of a positive catalyst occuring or the deal going to a strategic investor instead. In either of those cases, the stock could easily gap up significantly, leaving little or no chance of getting back in, at high volume, at anywhere near the price at which they got out.

     

    IOW, as long as the chance of a strategic investment remains, we may have some protection from flipping.

     

    And what's really cool is that, to the extent that some of those 2/2012 investors want to increase their positions, I imagine that they will hold off until a early 2013 placement. But if it's not with them, then they'll know it will be with a strategic investor instead, which may mean a gap up, which may mean that they add to the 'chase' demand, aka, piling on.

     

    Just thinking this thru a lil bit.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:23 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5003) | Send Message
     
    re: Metro & Carlos...IMO, both of you are correct.

     

    This past year I have seen a change on this APC...from euphoria to reality that it just takes longer.

     

    TG has a history of being off a year (or two-three) on his guidance. But things have begin to brighten a bit since Rosewater has started to become more involved and products are closer to mkt. I would personally like to see more of Joe Pic, he might be the closer that AXPW needs so desperately to move things along.

     

    When this working capital "cloud & weight" is lifted, maybe then we begin to see the positives reflected in the stock price....by this time next year we may see TG's 300% growth...maybe in 6 months.
    It would be fun to see several of these pieces all come together at the same time....that might cause an explosion in a positive way.

     

    I think in '13 we just have to see the battery "work"... in everyday jobs like:
    - the 999 moving cars
    -the home HUB installed
    -PC's doing their job in real factories, etc.
    -Trucks moving freight

     

    Battery Failure is just not an option & Mgt. has to execute in the next 12 months.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:47 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    Now this PR:

     

    ZBB Energy Announces Strategic Supply Agreement With Crosspoint Kinetics to Provide Controller Technology for Hybrid Motor Vehicle Systems

     

    http://yhoo.it/TnR2XM

     

    ...and to working with Crosspoint Kinetics and the Cummins international distribution network to deliver products for various hybrid vehicle applications and power solutions,"
    29 Nov 2012, 08:59 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    Crosspoint Kinetics is a good name, but I'd love to have a better idea of what the per unit revenue will be on a hybrid drive controller. While good controllers are essential for efficient hybrid drive, I have to imagine that they're a relatively small part of total system cost which includes motors, driveline integration and batteries.
    29 Nov 2012, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    Do you know much about Enova (ENA)?

     

    I understand that they make hybrid drive control systems (my lingo might be a little off). They came a hair's breadth from providing them to Ford this year, according to a friend of mine, but at the last minute Ford decided to make their own.

     

    Thanks. (Apologies if I completely garbled the story.)
    29 Nov 2012, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30177) | Send Message
     
    I've heard the name but don't pay much attention to electric drive component manufacturers.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:22 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2644) | Send Message
     
    It looks like this is a formal announcement of what was announced in the year-end press release. Total value in today's press release was 1.36M.

     

    "Signed a long-term OEM supply agreement with major vehicle/engine manufacturer for Hybrid electronics. Received from the major vehicle/engine manufacturer orders of $500,000 in the first quarter being delivered in the second quarter with an additional $860,000 of new orders booked in the second quarter."
    29 Nov 2012, 02:43 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    OK. Thanks.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:46 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1349) | Send Message
     
    To further that point, JP. I own a little ZBB and I find the whole Cummins Crosspoint hybrid (used to be called Variable Torque Motors it seems, thanks WTB) to be very opaque on the internet.
    I can find little record of sales or how they actually perform in the real world. Calgary Transit has a few and could be a good source of info.
    One thing I like is that they are using ultracapacitors. (from MXWL)
    29 Nov 2012, 10:28 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Energy Cache CEO on Selling Into Energy Markets, Grid Storage, and Scaling Up

     

    "However, the biggest problem of some cleantech businesses -- particularly large, utility-scale businesses like power generation -- is that they don’t follow the traditional “early adopters/early majority/late majority” model made famous by Geoffrey Moore, and before that, by Everett Rogers. Instead, with the siren song of the cleantech market being the sheer size of the potential market, most firms position themselves to enter the market by skipping the early-adopters phase, because there is no early-adopters phase."

     

    http://bit.ly/Yukdi7
    29 Nov 2012, 11:53 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    Good article.

     

    "The vicious catch-22 of “You can’t get funding until it is proven; you can prove it without funding” is incredibly strong."

     

    "So, what’s the solution? First off, businesses that don’t have an early-adopter possibility -- businesses that only work at large scale before they make economic sense? Those are going away"

     

    Further to my point above, trucking and the hub may be the bridge that allows us to prove the technology and prove Axion's ability to manufacture a consistent product.

     

    This proof will enable us to get the funding when it's needed for customers like auto and utilities.

     

    D
    29 Nov 2012, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4135) | Send Message
     
    NICE find, iind! I liked implications of what I read for Axion's apparent present course.
    29 Nov 2012, 12:40 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    Another story of interest from John's contact's site. Right in Axion's back yard. Maybe they should relocate Mr. Piccirilli and have him wear a couple pairs of shoes out! ;))

     

    And an errr uhmm Navy building to be retrofit. Never thought of the Navy. Dreamin again.

     

    Is Philadelphia the Next Center for Building Energy Efficiency?

     

    "The Energy Efficient Buildings Hub, a U.S. Department of Energy innovation cluster, was opened in early 2011 to push for energy efficiency in the greater Philadelphia area, where it is located. The Hub has already had some early successes. It served as a technical advisor to the city to pass an energy-benchmarking ordinance that is similar to what some other large cities have on the books. In the New Year, the Hub will start a deep retrofit of a building in the Navy Yard to use as its headquarters."

     

    http://bit.ly/RlvHmg
    29 Nov 2012, 12:59 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4135) | Send Message
     
    "And an errr uhmm Navy building to be retrofit. Never thought of the Navy. Dreamin again."

     

    Me thinks somewhat larger "Net Zero Energy" building projects are in our future.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9471) | Send Message
     
    D-inv, That's at least two of us hoping for the same thing. Let's hope it's one of many proposals Axion has supplied.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:54 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1804) | Send Message
     
    Woohoo, I finally have something to contribute to the APC!

     

    I just saw a mini vehicle used to carry tools and equipment around a campus, and talked to the driver. Apparently it was an "electric" vehicle powered by lead acid batteries! This is the brand:

     

    http://bit.ly/TsVhBe

     

    According to him, the charge doesn't even last a whole day, and after 6 months the battery held less and less charge. Sounds like a great problem the PbC can solve, right?

     

    Here we have a maker of mini-electric vehicles already having sales. Maybe some of you knowledgeable folks can look at this and if suitable refer this company to the sales team at Axion :)
    29 Nov 2012, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1804) | Send Message
     
    Ugh, it didn't occur to me that the battery could be lead-acid so I didn't ask the driver to let me check the brand inside. I assumed it was a Li-ion.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    Interesting find Ranma,
    I would caution you that the PbC does best when operating at 80% state of charge. It accepts charge and dispenses charge quickly.
    A vehicle that has no regenerative braking operates more like a golf cart and might not be the best use of the PbC. In fact it would probably take more PbCs than LAB to help the vehicle go 60 miles. But that doesn't mean that the longer life and greater charge acceptance of the PbC wouldn't make it a better product for this application.

     

    Now if the manufacturer added regenerative braking... well then you have exactly what the PbC is born to accomplish at a price less than lithium.
    29 Nov 2012, 01:15 PM Reply Like