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  • User462699
    , contributor
    Comments (111) | Send Message
     
    Tada! Momentary de-cloaking.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13491) | Send Message
     
    Hola.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13491) | Send Message
     
    Hrmph. Ties should go to the turtle...
    29 Nov 2012, 03:12 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    I think that may have to be submitted to the APH judging staff for a final decision.
    29 Nov 2012, 03:31 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Yep. Not that I'm biased. :0
    29 Nov 2012, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • User462699
    , contributor
    Comments (111) | Send Message
     
    Wouldn't have been a tie if I hadn't gone back to put that hyphen in.
    29 Nov 2012, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    User46, Your biorhythms are set up for hitting the tape at the same time as others today.
    29 Nov 2012, 03:39 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3367) | Send Message
     
    Ha! My middle name is If-only...
    29 Nov 2012, 03:40 PM Reply Like
  • rgholbrook
    , contributor
    Comments (116) | Send Message
     
    Agree with vote idea, with turtle by landslide. That way the morning headline is "Tortoise wins again, victory more than just over a hare this time."
    29 Nov 2012, 09:23 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    Ms. Congeniality again.
    29 Nov 2012, 02:57 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1420) | Send Message
     
    Big guns coming out late today.....

     

    100k plus volume in final minutes....
    29 Nov 2012, 03:52 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    We have a little support at 0.28.

     

    If it holds and news comes, we might not see 0.27 again.

     

    If not, maybe I'll get another 5,000 @0.25.
    29 Nov 2012, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4160) | Send Message
     
    let's assume we might see every price again until they're at least a 300% gain away in the rear-view mirror... Winston Wolf would advise to be cool until we have all our popsicle sticks in a row
    29 Nov 2012, 04:50 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    OR, I remember watching a program on the tube one time concerning some Wall Street traders. They indicated they traded early in the am and then went to play tennis or something else only returning at the end of the day to conclude their activity. Indicated there was not enough volume all day to support their efforts.
    29 Nov 2012, 03:58 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1919) | Send Message
     
    Could it be, I am the first to deliver cool news? Axion's new website. Very nice so far...I love the green grass covered car.

     

    http://bit.ly/TwH5d4
    29 Nov 2012, 05:38 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9834) | Send Message
     
    At first blush, a wonderful improvement!

     

    Great catch, jakurtz!
    29 Nov 2012, 05:49 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    jakurtz, Yep I looked just this morning and the old site was still up.

     

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention! A much prettier face on the site for sure. Hopefully they can add a few more pictures in some of the tabs soon!
    29 Nov 2012, 05:53 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9834) | Send Message
     
    I like the articles on Seeking Alpha link.
    29 Nov 2012, 05:59 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1350) | Send Message
     
    I like the calendar of events, now lets just get some up there <smile>...
    29 Nov 2012, 06:27 PM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (714) | Send Message
     
    Seems like more that a couple of manhole covers spent on this much needed effort!
    29 Nov 2012, 06:45 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1350) | Send Message
     
    Thanks jakurtz....
    29 Nov 2012, 07:08 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1919) | Send Message
     
    I bet the the guys at Axion had a running bet on how fast the axionista crew would spot the new site. Wonder what the kitty was up to?
    29 Nov 2012, 07:50 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, jak. Look at the site pretty regularly of late and good to see Axion make some changes. Just hope they continue to do so.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:08 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1772) | Send Message
     
    Wow, now that's a big improvement! It no longer looks like a website created by a high school kid a decade ago.
    29 Nov 2012, 10:06 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    I'd heard a new website was coming and think this is a solid start. Now if we could just get a few more whitepapers and copies of slide presentations to technical meetings like the SAE Commercial Vehicle Congress life would be wonderful.
    30 Nov 2012, 12:02 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    jk---I've been checking a couple times a day--you beat me to it!

     

    Good to see they're upgrading the sizzle. Will be nice when they also upgrade the steak. Hey--they have a pic of both of my (dream) homes, lol!
    29 Nov 2012, 05:48 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2623) | Send Message
     
    Nice find!

     

    http://bit.ly/V6ZqN8

     

    "East Penn Manufacturing Company, Inc.

     

    We have entered into a memorandum of understanding with East Penn, the largest independent battery manufacturer in North America. The MOU establishes the framework for a three-phase joint development and testing program that includes laboratory testing; prototype development and testing; and co-development of a series of pre-commercial prototypes. East Penn has been conducting independent testing to confirm our in-house test results and more fully characterize our prototypes. Initial results from East Penn focused on comparing lead-acid batteries to our batteries and have shown that the Axion prototypes continue to cycle long after the lead-acid battery control devices have failed. Testing is continuing to determine the ultimate number of cycles that can be attained from our prototypes."
    29 Nov 2012, 05:59 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, I thought that was on their old website for a long, long time.
    29 Nov 2012, 06:01 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2623) | Send Message
     
    My apologies if it was, I don't recall it being there.
    29 Nov 2012, 06:14 PM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (714) | Send Message
     
    I may well expire before the PbC fails!

     

    Obviously better than all the competition!

     

    Get on with the roll out!!!!!!!!!
    29 Nov 2012, 06:15 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (797) | Send Message
     
    jakurtz: Felicitaciones!!!!!

     

    Espectacular web page, very nice.

     

    I will have an excelent night-Carlos
    29 Nov 2012, 06:02 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (972) | Send Message
     
    Things I noticed, may be only related to me...FWIW.

     

    None of the three pictures on the landing page (residential, smart grid, transporation) work. Your mouse shows it should be clickable but it doesn't work for me.

     

    Same with cycling pictures above it. I can cycle but if you click nothing. I will assume that will be fixed.

     

    Not sure a picture of a truck with 7 batteries in the back is a good way of showing superiority for the hybrid market.

     

    Under Technology -> Standby Power they show a battery called SureEnergy. Its labeled an AGM battery. I take this isn't the PbC. I wasn't aware that they were selling an AGM. Is this new or have I not been paying attention?

     

    I like the about us section including color on BOD and sr. mgmt team.

     

    Last question, then I'll hang up and listen. Under the About Us -> Development Collaborators there is this:

     

    In addition to our in-house scientific staff, we have contracted industry-leading experts to work with us to continue to develop, improve and test our technology. Our batteries are currently on test with strategic partners and potential customers including several automotive vehicle manufacturers and a major train company.

     

    East Penn Manufacturing Company, Inc.

     

    We have entered into a memorandum of understanding with East Penn, the largest independent battery manufacturer in North America. The MOU establishes the framework for a three-phase joint development and testing program that includes laboratory testing; prototype development and testing; and co-development of a series of pre-commercial prototypes. East Penn has been conducting independent testing to confirm our in-house test results and more fully characterize our prototypes. Initial results from East Penn focused on comparing lead-acid batteries to our batteries and have shown that the Axion prototypes continue to cycle long after the lead-acid battery control devices have failed. Testing is continuing to determine the ultimate number of cycles that can be attained from our prototypes.

     

    **********************...
    First, I like the first paragraph. Simple and effective. Is the East Penn relationship a formal announcement or something more? I know Axion tested both JCI and East Penn at their facility but is this new? Strategic partner...
    29 Nov 2012, 06:07 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    mrholty---the website is a work in progress. So far, best I can tell (and I've looked at their previous website many times), it's just an appearance change. The only section that's changed substance that I can tell is they have the Q2 2012 conf call transcript back up.

     

    I'd say give them time to change the substance. Maybe it happens tonight, maybe not for awhile.
    29 Nov 2012, 06:13 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1919) | Send Message
     
    The arrows work for me when I click them. It takes a little bit to load the next image sometimes but it does navigate.
    29 Nov 2012, 07:45 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    The East Penn alliance isn't exactly new. In fact the initial MOU was signed and publicly disclosed in 2004. They've been an active, helpful and honorable strategic partner ever since.
    30 Nov 2012, 12:34 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3367) | Send Message
     
    I like the larger layout and better navigation, but I have to say, I preferred the old color scheme, which to my eye was more attractive, solid, and...dignified. Just had more gravitas somehow. I just don't like all the white space and faddish colors. Something not quite right in that combination. And there seems to be a slight lack of polish too in the fonts, photos, graphics resolutions etc.. But I applaud more content and better organization. Hopefully, the point revision will square it all up...
    29 Nov 2012, 06:41 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1919) | Send Message
     
    I like the site, really no point in critiquing it, it is an updated website. I think it is funny we will have many web developers aka axion stockholders begin giving their two cents though. It is cool because no other public company has such a concentrated peanut gallery, goes to show this is a unique place.
    29 Nov 2012, 07:48 PM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (344) | Send Message
     
    Much improved web site. Clean powerful message

     

    Positive step

     

    Have I missed a reference to our "trucking" opportunity

     

    Part of coming out of the closet. Is there a strategy

     

    Hope so
    29 Nov 2012, 08:07 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    Made me happy just to see anything happening on the website. I'd say it's a good start, but I agree with many of the comments others have made.

     

    Whoever is working out the kinks, of which there are far too many, would do well to come by here for all the excellent critique.

     

    I hope this is just the beginning of a much-needed push on marketing in general. Too many times I have seen research papers and the like where Axion should be mentioned and isn't.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:08 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4889) | Send Message
     
    I think they read the blog here .... It is a big improvement. You guys asked for it and you got it. Pretty timely too.

     

    Everything on the site works perfect for me.
    29 Nov 2012, 08:11 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4889) | Send Message
     
    re: Trucks

     

    JP, if you have any connections you need to ask ePower to get a larger engine rig on the road ASAP...

     

    IMO, they have too small an engine for OTR truck carrying 80,000 lb. payload. I have quite a bit of experience with tractors, and some road tractors and there is no substitute for horsepower. My fear is that if this does not perform well it could slow down adoption.
    29 Nov 2012, 09:51 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    "IMO, they have too small an engine for OTR truck carrying 80,000 lb. payload. I have quite a bit of experience with tractors, and some road tractors and there is no substitute for horsepower."

     

    I'm certainly no expert in the field but what I have read on ICE-powered vehicles universally claim differences of 20% - 22% between h.p. at the flywheel vs. h.p. at the drive wheels. With ePower hybrid trucks, though, the difference would appear limited to 3% - 5% with h.p. boost available from the battery pack.

     

    Considering a 300 h.p. engine with 20% loss in conventional drivetrain, about 240 h.p. might reach the drive wheels. An ePower hybrid ICE engine produces 197 h.p. and losses 10 h.p. with a 5% loss but has a 26 kW battery pack equivalent to an additional 34.8 h.p. The ePower hybrid seems equipped with roughly 221 h.p. capability at the drive wheels which is close to the approximate 240 h.p. at the drive wheels delivered by a 300 h.p. ICE.
    30 Nov 2012, 12:02 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    One thing at a time LT. At this point ePower is taking a methodical approach to sizing their components for maximum fuel economy. That is the compelling issue for their core customer base — fleet operators who run fixed routes day in and day out. I'm certain that more powerful engines and motors are under consideration, but upgrading from four to six cylinders eats into economy.
    30 Nov 2012, 12:21 AM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13491) | Send Message
     
    Torque (especially when breaking loose large loads from a standing start) is a key factor, and particularly for working trucks. Truck IC engines routinely have relatively modest hp ratings (for their displacement) but outsized torque output. This is also one of the reasons for the close attention paid to designing gear ratios...

     

    Often tuning decisions are made from the beginning to maximize torque (particularly in the power band where it will match the profile of the truck, and the gears) even when it means sacrificing HP numbers.
    30 Nov 2012, 12:25 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2623) | Send Message
     
    How do we get this guy's ear? We have to be better than a wood-chips-to-ethanol company ...

     

    http://nyti.ms/X6GoKY
    29 Nov 2012, 11:46 PM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (344) | Send Message
     
    Could we have an Axion and East Penn commercial contract announcement of significance in the next 3 months?

     

    Feels like it to me
    30 Nov 2012, 04:12 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    There are several of who believe that East Penn is the buyer under the flooded lead-acid battery contract, but they've always been more than a little PR shy. While some sort of event is always possible, it's not high on my probability list.
    30 Nov 2012, 04:59 AM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    OT Musk the Great ordered let 80,000 people colonize on MARS!
    http://cbsn.ws/TwoeQu
    30 Nov 2012, 05:19 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2117) | Send Message
     
    Follow the yellow brick road....
    30 Nov 2012, 05:33 AM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    If human could cope with the climate of the mars, why we subsidize EV hoping to delay global warming in the first place?
    30 Nov 2012, 05:43 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    How is that any different from his plans to transport folks from LA to San Francisco in 30 minutes on the Hypsterloop?

     

    http://read.bi/ViH3J0
    http://bit.ly/TxAjDY
    30 Nov 2012, 05:44 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1919) | Send Message
     
    That is funny bugeye. Musk writes, "at mars, you can start a self-sustaining civilization and grow it into something really big."

     

    And yet on Earth he contributes to the mass hysteria we will be annihilated with a one degree increase in surface temperature.
    30 Nov 2012, 08:26 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    BugEYE, From one fatalist to you. Good luck with controlling that global warming thing if it's CO2. (Posted before but it is a good visual).

     

    http://bit.ly/VadHsz

     

    http://bit.ly/LoK8zM
    30 Nov 2012, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1842) | Send Message
     
    And he wants it to be a collaboration between government and private enterprise.

     

    Just like what he did with SpaceX: government pays while 'private enterprise' collects a paycheque for playing with their toys.

     

    D
    30 Nov 2012, 08:31 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1082) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/QSc2Kx
    30 Nov 2012, 08:44 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9834) | Send Message
     
    Right now, in Qatar, the world is trying to (re)negotiate a global climate treaty:

     

    http://usat.ly/WyC822
    30 Nov 2012, 09:04 AM Reply Like
  • Nicu Mihalache
    , contributor
    Comments (1085) | Send Message
     
    How is that any different from telling people in early 2000s, when CARB's ZEV was reversed, that the following unicorn will exist in about 10 years time:
    - luxury EV with 5+2 places, quiet as a Rolls Royce, quick as a 911
    - comparable in price with Panamera and M5 which it beats in performance
    - built in California, aluminum body
    - free "fuel" for life for long trips
    - Li-ion battery with 8 year warranty, replaceable at the end of life for $8000 to $12000
    - first EV MT COTY + unanimity
    - 25% GM (in 2013)

     

    Some people don't believe this unicorn exists even today, when thousands of sightings happen every day in the US.
    30 Nov 2012, 10:15 AM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    "Good luck with controlling that global warming thing if it's CO2."

     

    I came across a really interesting paper yesterday: "Falsifi cation Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Eff ects Within The Frame Of Physics"

     

    http://bit.ly/PlsW37

     

    I am still wading through the technical jargon and formulae, but the gist of it is that some German physicists are arguing that the assumptions underlying the models which predict CO2 causing "greenhouse effects" and atmospheric warming are completely erroneous and based on a misunderstanding of thermodynamic principles.

     

    Abstract:
    "The atmospheric greenhouse e ffect, an idea that many authors trace back to the traditional works of Fourier (1824), Tyndall (1861), and Arrhenius (1896), and which is still supported in global climatology, essentially describes a fictitious mechanism, in which a planetary atmosphere acts as a heat pump driven by an environment that is radiatively interacting with but radiatively equilibrated to the atmospheric system. According to the second law of thermodynamics such a planetary machine can never exist. Nevertheless, in almost all texts of global climatology and in a widespread secondary literature it is taken for granted that such mechanism is real and stands on a fi rm scientifi c foundation. In this paper the popular conjecture is analyzed and the underlying physical principles are clari fied. By showing that (a) there are no common physical laws between the warming phenomenon in glass houses and the fictitious atmospheric greenhouse eff ects, (b) there are no calculations to determine an average surface temperature of a planet, (c) the frequently mentioned di fference of 33C is a meaningless number calculated wrongly, (d) the formulas of cavity radiation are used inappropriately, (e) the assumption of a radiative balance is unphysical, (f) thermal conductivity and friction must not be set to zero, the atmospheric greenhouse conjecture is falsifi ed."

     

    =====

     

    On a separate note, I have just returned from three weeks vacation motorcycling in Australia. What a beautiful place, with such friendly and fun-loving people.
    30 Nov 2012, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    SMaturin, Thanks for the read. It'll take some time to digest it appropriately. Glad I threw my coal use trending links out. I got something very valuable in return!

     

    I envy your vacation. Sounds like a great time. :)
    30 Nov 2012, 01:47 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    "General Information About arXiv . . .

     

    "Disclaimer: Papers will be entered in the listings in order of receipt on an impartial basis and appearance of a paper is not intended in any way to convey tacit approval of its assumptions, methods, or conclusions by any agent (electronic, mechanical, or other). We reserve the right to reject any inappropriate submissions."

     

    http://bit.ly/Tr8SsQ

     

    Doesn't seem to be a peer reviewed paper, so unless you're really strong in the underlying math and analytical frameworks, I would evaluate it cautiously.
    30 Nov 2012, 01:47 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    I took a quick look at the paper and noticed a glaring omission:

     

    The heat capacity of water is many times that of air. That is why when you hold your finger over a flame, you get burned, but a watched pot never boils.

     

    It takes much more heat to raise the temperature of water than that of air. Consequently, when you introduce heat into the Earth's atmosphere, the air does not "absorb" it; the heat "passes through" the air and is absorbed by the oceans.

     

    Inland areas do see ambient temperatures rise, but even there atmospheric kinetic energy changes, water vapor pressure changes, and interactions of air masses with different energies, are much more important.

     

    The paper discusses the properties of atmospheric gases in the absence of these other factors, when in actuality the rise in ocean temperature is the most significant change that increasing atmospheric CH4 and CO2 concentrations are causing.

     

    There are dozens, if not hundreds, of boards dedicated to climate change validity and invalidity.

     

    My own personal opinion is that those arguments are off the topic of this board, which is energy storage technologies, devices, and applications.
    30 Nov 2012, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, I'm aware and I'll refrain from further discussion.
    30 Nov 2012, 02:26 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1318) | Send Message
     
    SMaturin-welcome back.

     

    Billa thanks for sharing your knowledge!
    30 Nov 2012, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    iindelco,

     

    You contribute more interesting and salient information to our discussions than almost anyone else on this board!

     

    Far be it from ME to chastise YOU for being OT.

     

    :-)
    30 Nov 2012, 02:46 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    billa,

     

    For what it's worth, the journal claims to be peer reviewed, and this article was published as the lead review article in Jan 2009, at this link: http://bit.ly/Trh9Nu

     

    I try to remain open-minded about the whole AGW controversy. But I respectfully disagree that it is not a legitimate topic for polite discussion on this board. As governmental policies affecting our investment decisions are very much driven by the concerns about what anthropogenic CO2 emssions may be doing to our world, it is a topic pertinent to the discussion of storage technologies affected by such government policies. I only hope that we can discuss it rationally and respectfully, and avoid the "foamers" and hyperbole on either side.
    30 Nov 2012, 03:00 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Thanks billa, But it is appropriate to rein in OT posts as they can get out of hand for sure.

     

    And I also appreciate your expertise sharing on the topic.

     

    In addition, caution about a lack of peer review is always very appropriate.
    30 Nov 2012, 03:05 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9834) | Send Message
     
    Little more than 2 years ago, I created a "Climate-Gate Instablog."

     

    If folks want to discuss whether or not global warming is occuring, then I encourage all to use this insta.

     

    http://bit.ly/TrktZ5

     

    Or, for someone else to create a new one, as it is one controversial subject. And, I don't think that this debate should be on the APCs, with a catch...

     

    However, I do think global warming is a subject for these Concentrators, but limited as to how the goverments around the world will act via using subsidies and grants to reduce carbon (or methane) emissions to combat the pace of global warming.

     

    Axion Power has already been given a $150,000 grant to study microhybrids, and next year may be in line to recieve another $1,000,000, and the year after that, perhaps much more.

     

    The list goes on and on for subsidies and grants in many niches the PbC is vying to sprout into. Perhaps Rosewater's Residential Hub is in line for a tax rebate -- of course, that would kindle another round of debate of the rich getting the breaks the poor don't. We've already covered some of this ground over the past few APCs.

     

    I also can project that the someday middle class could get a tax rebate from being forced to buy a hybrid stop/start car with a battery several times the cost of a common LA battery.

     

    Wouldn't that be nice?
    30 Nov 2012, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1350) | Send Message
     
    Seems like the first stage of the grant was on a short cycle (shorter than a year). Does anyone know when the second stage starts?
    30 Nov 2012, 06:41 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    Just curious how many miles you logged, what bike you rode, whether you rented or what, the $$$$ involved, just a few details that would be of interest to a footloose fellow. Thanks.
    30 Nov 2012, 07:52 PM Reply Like
  • jpau
    , contributor
    Comments (768) | Send Message
     
    This may be relevant
    http://bit.ly/SAz1qx
    30 Nov 2012, 09:04 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1350) | Send Message
     
    "Axion Power was one of 75 companies out of a total of 764 applicants to earn an award in the first phase of the DOE's program. Grant funding is expected to be available to Axion Power by late June of this year and Phase I will conclude 10 months from that date. According to DOE documents, Phase II awards will be granted to approximately 50% of Phase I awardees and will conclude in 12-15 months. Phase III will follow shortly thereafter."

     

    So phase (not stage) I will conclude the end of April 2013. That is a long time for anyone to cycle. You could really put away the amps if pedals, generator and PbC were assembled. Wonder when we find out about phase II...
    30 Nov 2012, 09:49 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    Edmund,

     

    I did not log the mileage, and they use kilometers over there, anyway. My participation in the family trip was delayed a week by Sandy. I met my folks in Sydney (they had been up to Hunter Valley and Green Mountains), went down to Canberra, then through the mountains to Jindabyne, over the lovely Alpine Way road and down to Melbourne, then west out the Great Ocean Road. Doubled back through national forests to the GOR, to Phillip Island, then back up the coast to Sydney.

     

    We had a borrowed BMW 650, two rented Honda cb400's, and a chase car for the luggage and rest spells.

     

    Along the way we met up with many friends we have made on previous motorcycle safaris to exotic destinations, run by this couple: http://bit.ly/Yjki9y. They run fantastic tours, and have become good friends with my family, as we have been on several of their safaris together. This trip was not one of their organized tours, just a family get together for an opportunity to visit them in their home country.
    1 Dec 2012, 01:05 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    Thanks SMaturin, sounds like great fun. I have not done any trip like that. So you actually have to let the chase car catch you? Novel idea.
    3 Dec 2012, 10:36 AM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    The "chase car" usually could not keep up with the bikes in any sort of traffic, unless we were making an effort to stay together or had pre-planned to reach a specific destination. We generally tried to avoid traffic and find the scenic roads, rather than staying on motorways. We were not trying to set a fast pace, so the car could usually keep up on the back roads. We kept in touch with cheap "candy bar" phones we bought for use while there.

     

    I put an Australian Telstra SIM in my ipad and used it as a GPS in a tank bag on the bikes to guide us in our explorations and finding fun roads. The car had its own GPS system, so we could share locations by phone and find each other when separated.

     

    Australia is rather strict about speed laws and uses speed cameras everywhere there is traffic, which tended to keep us at a legal pace on motorways and in towns. Nonetheless, at least one camera ticket has caught up with us already.

     

    The little Honda 400's had no fairings, so going more than 100kpm would blow the rider all around, which is tiring, so we were not really interested in high speeds. But they were a blast for carving mountain roads and coastal curves.
    3 Dec 2012, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Best definition I've seen on how Mazda's i-ELOOP system functions.

     

    Mazda to offer diesel Mazda6 in North America in second half of 2013; i-ELOOP and SCBS

     

    http://bit.ly/QSgDfZ
    30 Nov 2012, 09:13 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    I can see how the i-ELOOP might work but I sure as heck can't see how it can be cheap. The Maxwell-Continental system uses 2400 farads of capacitors that cost $48 to provide 10% of the energy load for an engine off event. By the time you make a big supercapacitor pack and add in the cost of a DC/DC converter it seems like a very costly way to go.
    30 Nov 2012, 09:31 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    >JP ... I'm sure that the Japanese are more than a little sensitive to warranty issues and generally engineer to a "more than adequate" standard. The Maxwell-Continental system is best available technology that is known to actually work ... costly or not.
    30 Nov 2012, 10:06 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    I think the i-ELOOP system has an opposite weakness vs LAB's. If you are in a situation where you are starting and stopping frequently you might not be able to store all the energy you are capable of harvesting due to limited energy storage capacity.

     

    While the information is proprietary, I'd sure like to see their data on what level of drive cycles they can fully support (frequent stops). Of course, the inverse thought is how often you'd need to stop in your drive cycle to get payback. Didn't see any info. in the article about them doing any harvesting during coasting either. Perhaps a next step?

     

    Note the comment on how much more efficient the cap, is vs a LAB due to better DCA. I'd sure love for them to play with a PbC and show us what a compromise solution in DCA would offer. Not quite the DCA but far more capacity. Maybe better in densely populated areas or for larger vehicles with more kinetic energy?
    30 Nov 2012, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    I also don't understand how the system can work without a basic lead-acid starter battery. Supercapacitors are way fast and cycle to beat the band, but their self-discharge rates are atrocious. Without a battery I don't see how you start your car on Monday after a weekend lounging around the house.
    30 Nov 2012, 10:09 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    >JP ... Mazda seems to be using a single battery system. I didn't read this passage " ... i-ELOOP avoids the need for a dedicated electrical motor and battery, making the system more efficient, compact, and lighter than traditional systems." as having NO battery. Just not a starter LAB. It would not be difficult to drop the capacitors out of the circuit when the car is "keyed" off, thus saving the battery. When operation continues the caps could be recharged in several different ways quickly from the battery, the alternator or braking system.
    30 Nov 2012, 10:21 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Here's a picture of the "supercabattery".

     

    http://bit.ly/11acwxu
    30 Nov 2012, 10:23 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    I'm sensing there is a LAB involved.

     

    http://bit.ly/YeIWbu
    30 Nov 2012, 10:26 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, Click on the picture on the right.

     

    Mazda to offer diesel Mazda6 in North America in second half of 2013; i-ELOOP and SCBS

     

    http://bit.ly/QSgDfZ
    30 Nov 2012, 10:33 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    "The i-ELOOP system is combined with engine start-stop functions—although Mazda didn't verify this aspect at the conference or in the coordinated release."

     

    http://bit.ly/11a5aKu
    30 Nov 2012, 10:03 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Plug Power’s lands Procter & Gamble deal

     

    " Procter & Gamble (NYSE: PG) will use the GenDrive product at its plants in Pennsylvania, California, North Carolina and Louisiana. More thant 340 units will be deployed at P&G."

     

    http://bit.ly/11q5QdV
    30 Nov 2012, 10:16 AM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Great product. Periodic substantial sales to big materials handlers. But their losses just keep growing and growing. I don't know if they will ever figure out how to make a profit on their GenDrives.
    30 Nov 2012, 02:21 PM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (344) | Send Message
     
    "There are several of who believe that East Penn is the buyer under the flooded lead-acid battery contract, but they've always been more than a little PR shy. While some sort of event is always possible, it's not high on my probability list."

     

    Why do you say this John? It seems such a logical evolution for both parties at this stage. Perhaps too logical
    30 Nov 2012, 10:38 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    East Penn has been a wonderful partner for years and the relationship between the two companies is maturing beautifully. While I believe a major partnership with East Penn is all but certain, I've watched the current relationship develop and I'd feel very uncomfortable putting an arbitrary three-month fuse on the next steps.

     

    When the time is right, Axion and East Penn will end up doing a ton of business together.
    30 Nov 2012, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2246) | Send Message
     
    I hope the new website is a work in progress because it needs a lot of work.
    30 Nov 2012, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4160) | Send Message
     
    BW,

     

    What would you specifically suggest based on your expertise?
    30 Nov 2012, 03:19 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9834) | Send Message
     
    Next trillion dollar industry? 3D printing a car?

     

    http://read.bi/U6BVRn

     

    http://bit.ly/QSGBQv
    30 Nov 2012, 11:47 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    Now that is way cool!

     

    I think it's a bit early to invest but cool nonetheless.
    30 Nov 2012, 12:06 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    I've seen a few of these headline grabbers in the past. It could make it even easier than walking out on the street with 300 USD in any large American city!

     

    Fully 3D Printable Guns Waiting on Firearms License

     

    http://bit.ly/TwXEGM
    30 Nov 2012, 12:33 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    The human capacity to conceive mayhem is absolutely amazing.
    30 Nov 2012, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Yep. Just imagine if all that ingenuity/resources were funneled into positive efforts.

     

    Speaking of mayhem. The US government at work. Damn the torpedo's, Full speed ahead. Food shortage and it shortens the life of 95% of the fleet. Oh well, I met my objectives.

     

    AAA: No More Alcohol For Cars!

     

    http://bit.ly/Tr2cuV
    30 Nov 2012, 12:53 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2623) | Send Message
     
    I have heard some chatter about investing in 3D printing companies, but have not investigated it ...
    30 Nov 2012, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco> I think the ethanol rules are more properly classified as havoc than mayhem, but that's a pretty fine distinction.
    30 Nov 2012, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9834) | Send Message
     
    There's waaaay cool lots and lots written regarding 3D printing, which I've been reading about for some time. But I hadn't before today caught that a car has been knocked out.

     

    Below John, is an SA article, including one of your favorite charts, Gartner's Hype Cycle.

     

    One company I was speculatively looking at a while back was the mentioned 3D Systems (DDD). But the stock looks way overvalued; I should have...could have...a while back.

     

    Maybe this is how Tony Stark can build Mars out for 80,000 citizens.;-0

     

    http://bit.ly/Trb6IK
    30 Nov 2012, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4160) | Send Message
     
    More generically I have heard of 3d printing already in use for replacement parts. (ie broken plastic part in cell phone or car; just take it down to print shop with 3d printer and they'll make a new one)
    30 Nov 2012, 03:23 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    ssys, dasty, ddd, adsk - my short list of 3D plays. Personally, I'm making money jumping in and out of SSYS at this point.

     

    for those who like filet mignon, try onvo.
    30 Nov 2012, 08:21 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    http://smrt.io/TyPpcr

     

    I heard Bloomberg bragging about this. Of course the State takes credit for everything, then runs a credit line on the intangibles.
    30 Nov 2012, 08:54 PM Reply Like
  • SimpleInstrument
    , contributor
    Comments (79) | Send Message
     
    Not as destructive as raising 50 million at 20 cents a share. Black powder has been around for say... many years. Anything else would be survival of the dumbest. So lets be conservative with say 20 million and hoping for 15 million at 20 cents a share. I'd say the 3-d plastic toys are rather trivial; though they already sell them in walmart (a mute point outside political theatrics). I wonder if John Wayne had a permit?
    2 Dec 2012, 10:01 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2414) | Send Message
     
    Since we've all gone trucker lately ...

     

    November 13, 2012 07:00 AM Eastern Time
    GE and Clean Energy Fuels Partner to Expand ‘America’s Natural Gas Highway®’

     

    Clean Energy to Use GE’s MicroLNG Technology at Two New LNG Facilities

     

    New MicroLNG Technology Builds on GE Oil & Gas’ Global Success in Large LNG Projects

     

    http://bit.ly/TqYdhP

     

    "GE’s MicroLNG plant can liquefy natural gas at any point along a gas distribution network, making it ideal for supporting the fueling of vehicles in remote locations by reducing the impact of long distance fuel transport. This MicroLNG technology is part of GE’s expanding technology offerings in the natural gas-for-transportation sector."

     

    First Durathon/Zebra, now this ... GE sees all the $$ we talk about here (talking our Energy interest more broadly than "just" Axion) ... and I know it's a huge pot, but at the very least it behooves us to keep an eye on what this really big dog [RBD] is doing. Add their financing capability to their industrial products and you get somebody you really don't want as a direct competitor.

     

    I think JP tends to talk about what can we see in 5? years for investment decisions ... where do we think nat gas for transportation can get to in the next 5 years?

     

    Wonder if ePower is talking to Wesport and others in creating their "roadmap" for future product development?
    30 Nov 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Let's be glad they got their load of processed coconut shell in. Another example of why large scale manufacturing like to localize supply chains.

     

    Strikes spread to Port of Long Beach

     

    http://bit.ly/TwYlzW
    30 Nov 2012, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2246) | Send Message
     
    I would like to add some "color" as to why I felt the new website needed a lot of work. When I first viewed the site it was on a 1980x1080 High def screen. The site looks terribly undersized with a huge expanse of emptiness on either side. The ribbon at the top does not stretch across the full screen. It looked to me like a site still under development.

     

    Reminded me of the days when my ecommerce site was designed for 800 pixel screens before 1200 was widespread. Eventually we re-sized the site to 1200. In a nutshell the site has a fixed width versus being designed to display in blocks the are equal to a percentage of the screen totaling 100%.

     

    Fixed widths like Axion has designed with make it easier to control the layout. At the same time it could have been done a lot better so it doesn't look so bad on a 1980xX monitor.

     

    It does look good on a smaller screen like my 1200x800 laptop screen. I am not a big fan of small grey text either. It would have been a help in my opinion if the text turned darker down where the latest headlines displayed when you moused over it. Probably looks like a nice site on a tablet or smartphone also.
    30 Nov 2012, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2246) | Send Message
     
    My comment about the grey text not changing color on mouseover is not true. It lights up as a blue "link" in the text at the bottom. If anyone developing the site is reading this post it would help if clicking on the large logo would take you back to "Home" versus hunting for the tiny "home" link.

     

    I don't expect a lot of "likes" with my website comments and A's for effort are nice. However, first impressions are critical and the site simply makes a poor first impression on large screen monitors. Nit picking I guess to some, but I made a living on the web and I have to call it like I see it.
    30 Nov 2012, 01:58 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Bang, Thanks. I was hoping you'd chime in and I'm glad you added the follow on posts to clarify your perspective. Yes, I'd be more in the camp of focusing on how tabs are layered for ease of finding information and also not to much clutter with good contrast for clarity. But we all have our perspectives and surely marketing is more your gig than mine.
    30 Nov 2012, 02:30 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1919) | Send Message
     
    It's a collaborative effort and I am sure the extra set of eyes on technical issues helps those working on it flesh out problems. I just know what it is like working on aesthetic presentations and three hundred eyes become art critics. It is a cool, unique dynamic us stockholders on the APC have developed with Axion.
    30 Nov 2012, 03:00 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    We covered the website discussion nicely a few months ago. My take remains that it has little value to anything important other than 1) you gotta at least have one in today's world or you're looked at strangely, and 2) it may every now and then help a retail investor decide to buy another share or two.

     

    TG, Vani and the team are well aware that all of their serious sales hopes ride on phone discussions, introductions by others, face-to-face presentations and the like.
    30 Nov 2012, 04:44 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2246) | Send Message
     
    Back in my early days of proposal writing I had a boss who told me if it isn't a positive it was therefore a negative. He was referring to written words. Same for websites. Boss comes in a room tells subordinate he just got off the phone with Axion. Subordinate goes to website and looks it over so he isn't stupid. Subordinate can only form opinion from website since he wasn't in on the phone call. Sites are your "public" face. They need to be attractive as possible.

     

    I'm not in disagreement with you D-Inv in terms of major deals or stock movement. Some people would dress nice to go to a convenience store. Me, I'm practically in my pajamas - but I am not trying to sell anything.

     

    Website development isn't cheap. I am surprised they did anything so I commend them for the effort. Probably the best they could do with limited resources and limited return on investment. I will give the website 100% credit for getting the PbC's main attributes across on the home page. That's a LOT better than the old site. If I had to choose I would go with the new site in a New York minute.

     

    Doling it on the home page means no one has to look any further to understand the positives. Similar to my rule for direct mail design. Make the offer clear and immediate on the front of the piece.
    30 Nov 2012, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    IMO a website to Axion has > 0 value, but just barely. Therefore, I'm very glad that the company evidently has not been spending much time or $ on it.
    30 Nov 2012, 07:11 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    IMO, a professional and captivating website is essential to success. Almost as essential as having a product to market.

     

    The new website is a start, albeit one that looks a bit like a rush job or the product of a novice.

     

    There are way too many "bugs" to start a list at this point.

     

    All that said, I was one of the more vocal critics of the old site and the lack of marketing savvy in general, so I remain very happy to see movement on this front.
    30 Nov 2012, 08:33 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    I found the old site informative and easy to navigate.

     

    The new one will probably work incrementally better over the next few weeks and months.
    30 Nov 2012, 08:43 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    I will say that the timing of putting up this new website is prob not a coincidence, for a company that's on the ball and has very limited resources like Axion. Got some news announcements coming, so more eyes will be on the company. A little painting here, a little polishing there...
    1 Dec 2012, 02:00 AM Reply Like
  • Bylo-
    , contributor
    Comments (411) | Send Message
     
    I'm in your corner on this one, Bang. First impressions are lasting. After all, if they can't make a decent web site, how good can their batteries be?
    1 Dec 2012, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1919) | Send Message
     
    "How good can there batteries be?" --
    I am not sure if that statement was a joke or not but the two things have absolutely zero to do with each other. Ener1 and A123 had stupendously schnazzy websites and in the end that is about all their stockholders are left with they were a great hype game while they lasted. The website means just a hair above zilch to any significant investor and absolute zilch to BMW, NS, gm etc.
    1 Dec 2012, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1350) | Send Message
     
    First impressions are important to me as a new investor. Their web presence should be a guided tour for new potential investors or customers. The more I learn about the company the less important the web presence (other than a resource library). A change in design and content is a very good thing. My hope is the developers are still very active in the project and aggressively seeking feedback. My other hope is that they have a maintenance contract...
    1 Dec 2012, 11:15 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    I think it's a pretty safe bet that all the Concentrator comments on the new website will end up in the hands of the responsible party.
    1 Dec 2012, 11:19 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1510) | Send Message
     
    The Axion website is a little wanky this afternoon, so maybe are adding some new tweaks.
    1 Dec 2012, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1707) | Send Message
     
    As someone who is able to build simple to medium websites, I think Axion's new site is just fine and already a large improvement. It now looks like a modern site rather than one from the 90's. It promoted the right info and included all the potential apps the PbC has. There are some minor tweaks to be done but as long as they are done in a reasonable time, I see no harm for the developer to put the site live to make sure the bulk of the site is working.

     

    Personally I was satisfied with the new look. It was clear, bright, and easy to navigate. It doesn't have the bells and whistles Ener1 or A123 had, but it does the job. Seriously, any more and then we'll really be asking how much money Axion spent on this. As it is, I doubt it cost all that much (low 4 figures at most), and I think we can agree that's about all that should be spent.
    1 Dec 2012, 03:14 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    jakurtz---lmao! A bit scary that an AXPW investor would not at all understand how Axion should and does market itself, at least to prospective customers. A passive approach will get them nothing, as they know. An active approach is the only way to go. Vani was not hired so he could sit in the back office and work on the website, lol. It's all about contacts, connections, introductions, in-person presentations, making a lot of phone calls, etc., etc., etc. They don't sell books or t-shirts to individuals, they sell a new, little-known (of course we hope that changes over time) specialty product to other businesses. Pound the phone and pound the pavement, baby.

     

    Enough time wasting. Iindelco's thread below about yet another carbon shipment is WAY more important.
    1 Dec 2012, 03:48 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3367) | Send Message
     
    I think we can all agree that everything the company does, everything with any visibility at all, should be of high-quality and connote seriousness, maturity, attention to detail, and staying power. These are not trinkets or batteries for toys, these are heavy-weight industrial products that will be relied upon to perform without flaw in arduous real-world conditions. Every facet of the company's interface with potential and current customers, investors, and the public at large should reinforce the sense that Axion is a company that will deliver.
    1 Dec 2012, 04:19 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    The least they could have done is get all the top-level links working properly before going live with their new site.

     

    That is not a lot to ask, even if it means linking to "coming soon" pages.

     

    "Coming soon" pages motivate web developers to get their work done in a timely manner.
    1 Dec 2012, 07:34 PM Reply Like
  • SimpleInstrument
    , contributor
    Comments (79) | Send Message
     
    Pretty funny really; since I just spent less than a thousand on a website that is far nicer and has actual working buttons (India Designed). To include two servers; one being U.S. and the other being Swiss (2 years). If I did not know better; and I don't... there isn't enough info worth posting (at this time).
    2 Dec 2012, 10:10 PM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (344) | Send Message
     
    John

     

    "East Penn has been a wonderful partner for years and the relationship between the two companies is maturing beautifully. While I believe a major partnership with East Penn is all but certain, I've watched the current relationship develop and I'd feel very uncomfortable putting an arbitrary three-month fuse on the next steps.

     

    When the time is right, Axion and East Penn will end up doing a ton of business together."

     

    That is all music to everyone's ears I am sure

     

    Agree hate deadlines - only point is the cash burn and expiry - our main obstacle to moving to brighter days

     

    And just think of the market creditability and momentum that some agreement including East Penn cash of substance would give AXPW

     

    It would make my Xmas -
    30 Nov 2012, 02:27 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    Since Tom specifically referred to the next raise as a Q-1 event, it would have to make Christmas 2013, but I think would be great to have East Penn as a stockholder, but not too big of a stockholder.
    30 Nov 2012, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Personally, I tend to think a PowerCube sale, 15 - 20 residential HUB orders, a PR announcing strong performance of a Hybrid, PbC populated Class 8 truck in commercial service, delivery of multiple truck APUs, or delivery of PbC batteries for the NS999 together with disclosure of another RR battery order from another RR or from NSC could resolve financing uncertainties pretty quickly. Occurrence of any two of the above could prompt breathtaking AXPW price action and transaction volume IMO.
    30 Nov 2012, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1318) | Send Message
     
    How battery start-ups are trying to survive in tough times:
    http://bit.ly/Tyn6uL

     

    Wilmer tells us that Leyden has tweaked its plans over the past year, and is now focusing on the tablet market as well as providing batteries for gasoline cars with start-stop technology. Previously the startup was looking to sell batteries for laptops, and electric bicycles, and then wanted to move into newer and tougher ones like electric cars.
    30 Nov 2012, 02:46 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    The DOE announced another $120 million commitment to advanced batteries today in the form of Energy Storage Hubs that will focus on advancing next generation battery and energy storage technologies for electric and hybrid cars and the electricity grid.

     

    http://1.usa.gov/TriqUV

     

    My favorite paragraph in the press release says:

     

    "Energy Innovation Hubs are major integrated research centers with researchers from many different institutions and technical backgrounds that combine basic and applied research with engineering to accelerate scientific discovery in critical energy areas. They are modeled after the strong scientific management characteristics of the Manhattan Project, Lincoln Lab at MIT that developed radar, AT&T Bell Laboratories that developed the transistor and, more recently, the highly successful Bioenergy Research Centers established during the Bush Administration to pioneer advanced techniques in biotechnology, including biofuels."

     

    My musings on "The Apollo Fallacy" are here:

     

    http://bit.ly/vyvmYn
    30 Nov 2012, 03:11 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    I have often had to explain why I felt that the Apollo missions were one of the great tragedies of our time. For the moony generation, aka the baby-boomers, possibly the most powerful generation that America will ever have, after Apollo every problem had a government solution. They taught their children and mine this nonsense, always pointing to the moon for legitimacy.
    Since then each President/Congress has felt the need to spend incredible amounts of the people's earnings on predictions of the future or attempts to redirect it.
    All resulting in an inexorable and continuing loss of personal economic rights - and what other right is more important?
    1 Dec 2012, 09:53 AM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (963) | Send Message
     
    RE: ""only point is the cash burn and expiry - our main obstacle to moving to brighter days...""

     

    I think it's good to keep in mind what I consider to be a "silver lining" regarding this situation. Had it not been for the (at times excessive) concern over financing needs, Axion stock price would never have retreated to current levels. Which has resulted in a good number of investors able to get in, or cost average down at almost absurdly low prices.
    30 Nov 2012, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Well put, Wayne.

     

    Hand-wringing over the coming raise has helped me to average down to 40 cents and almost double my position.

     

    If we do get dilution in Q1 2013, I might be able to sweeten my position even more.
    30 Nov 2012, 03:30 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Is the OTCMarket bid-offer spread of $.2931 - $.2949 for real? A few minutes ago it was reported as $.2948 bid - $.2949 offer for a spread of $.0001
    30 Nov 2012, 04:02 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (656) | Send Message
     
    The thing I like most is that the price closed 3.49 cents higher than last Friday.
    30 Nov 2012, 04:08 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    It was real---NITE had 5k bid at prices creeping up in the low .29's. ATDF did not move off it's .2949 best offer. Eventually NITE's 5k was traded at .2949. Nice day for a slow day.

     

    For months now, the biggest thing that stands out on the offer side of Level II has been ATDF---typically you'll see them on the best offer, at .xx99, often representing a lot less shares than they actually have to sell. Tons 'o shares have been sold by them. No idea how many more they have. Insert your own guess as to the party(ies) behind the selling here: ______________________...

     

    The very good news is they're at .2949, not .2299. I'm still hopeful that the upcoming catalysts will overwhelm their, and UBSS' and the other's aggregate supply and we hold a nice push up.
    30 Nov 2012, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, Mr I.
    30 Nov 2012, 04:42 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1420) | Send Message
     
    I bought late in the day at .2949. Apparently, there were no sellers (this time) who wanted to sell me their shares at any price other than the ASK. I patiently waited and waited at price points between .29 and, yes, even .2948! No dice... no willing sellers this time. So I hit the ASK for a measly 5k.

     

    For those thinking this is some sophisticated ALGO moving the BID/ASK .0001 decimals, it is not. I believe it is simply individual investors (like myself) testing the market.

     

    I bring this up, since everytime I move the BID around... somebody cries manipulation.

     

    Crawling back under my rock, now.

     

    Have a great weekend everybody!

     

    P.S.... Here's to AXPW breaking .30 next week!
    30 Nov 2012, 04:58 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    "I bought late in the day at .2949. Apparently, there were no sellers (this time) who wanted to sell me their shares at any price other than the ASK. I patiently waited and waited at price points between .29 and, yes, even .2948! No dice... no willing sellers this time. So I hit the ASK for a measly 5k."

     

    :-) Thanks, OR.
    30 Nov 2012, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    D-inv, no problemo (a correction: ATDF is usually at .xxx9). Funny how even looking at AXPW's Level II almost every day for 9 months, it's really hard for me to tell what the heck is REALLY going on. I see ATDF as the most active MM on the offer for the last couple months, then NITE here and there, then UBSS in occassional big chunks, then a big dropoff, but since I don't have access to Time & Sales by MM, I can't always tell who actually is doing the selling. Yesterday had a good example---a > 50k share chunk traded without a corresponding bid or offer. So, who sold it and who bought it? Can't tell.

     

    Anyway, the broader view is I view the trading details for what they really are, entertainment, at least for a retail investor like me in a penny stock like AXPW. Just another way to pass the time and stay motivated. Which is very important, as I find that investing is mostly about dealing with emotions and other states of mind, like boredom with AXPW. It will help a lot when the pace of announced developments quickens soon.
    30 Nov 2012, 05:12 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9834) | Send Message
     
    Mr I: But the pace of future announcements to be announced...has quickened.
    30 Nov 2012, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    Maya---lol, yep. Consider it like the flow of inventory. Based on the conf call and JPs comments, looks like we'll have at least two announcements in the next two weeks alone, which is a big quickening to mwa.
    30 Nov 2012, 05:31 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    OR---"I bring this up, since everytime I move the BID around... somebody cries manipulation." Lol, how true. I've moved my bid around, too, and I suspect plenty of others here have, three. Do what you think is in YOUR best interests, and ignore the ignorant.

     

    I bought some at .2949, too---a little late day boost to the price action.

     

    Question--what brokerage firm do you trade thru? The MM that firm used was NITE.
    30 Nov 2012, 05:43 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1420) | Send Message
     
    No problem, D-inv. FWIW, I've been accumulating AXPW for a while now.
    30 Nov 2012, 11:34 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1420) | Send Message
     
    Mr. Investor: I use Interactive Brokers. Love 'em...

     

    Also, I knew I wasn't alone at the end of the day...
    30 Nov 2012, 11:36 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4160) | Send Message
     
    Fidelity uses ATDF

     

    How good is interactive brokers for trading on int'l markets?
    1 Dec 2012, 06:01 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    I'm a novice, but I have been using Fidelity for my international trades. Flat $20 commission. No per share, no percent of trade. That's for Canada, anyway. I keep my trades at or above $2000.
    1 Dec 2012, 10:40 AM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1420) | Send Message
     
    Jveal: Yes.... and didn't give back hardly any gains!
    30 Nov 2012, 04:29 PM Reply Like
  • Renzo
    , contributor
    Comments (352) | Send Message
     
    Happy Friday all. I just popped over to the AXPW board on Yahoo for the first time in a year.

     

    What a sewer. How do I wash away the smell?

     

    Thanks to all who make this Concentrator a challenging, enlightening and pleasant experience.
    30 Nov 2012, 06:34 PM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    Jim Bolch, CEO of Exide, was interviewed by Fox news discussing economical viability of green energy among other things. http://bit.ly/11cJ4a3
    30 Nov 2012, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1772) | Send Message
     
    What an idiotic interview! The host doesn't know what he is talking about, has no idea how the system works, and keeps making presumptions about wind and solar that are basically wrong. Gotta love FOX News.
    30 Nov 2012, 07:21 PM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    labtech, I feel the same way about the host.
    30 Nov 2012, 07:26 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    LabTech, You're too kind. That guy was an irritating clown.
    30 Nov 2012, 07:32 PM Reply Like
  • Renzo
    , contributor
    Comments (352) | Send Message
     
    Varney clearly didn't prepare adequately for the interview though I think the CEO made some good points about the economics (it may work on a South Pacific atoll but won't work where there are other more economic sources). The $2 million to Exide is part of a NZ$ 7 million grant for the PV/battery system. For 1400 islanders that works out to $5000 per person for 24/7 electricity compared to the 16 hours/day provided by diesel at a cost of $500/barrel totaling $1 million/year.

     

    We'll see how the system works, but there's no question from what we know that PbC would provide a much more robust solution that AGM (which is what we can assume are being provided by Exide). By the time the batteries crap out in a year or two, PbC will be more widely known and Axion will get the replacement contract.

     

    http://bit.ly/SwdtwI
    1 Dec 2012, 12:14 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    IIRC Tokelau is one of the first places that's supposed to become a submarine community as the result of AGW so maybe they figure short cycle life won't be a major problem?

     

    (Old enough to know better but too young to resist)
    1 Dec 2012, 12:21 AM Reply Like
  • Renzo
    , contributor
    Comments (352) | Send Message
     
    Are you suggesting that Exide will end up "under water" on the deal? (Couldn't resist).
    1 Dec 2012, 12:29 AM Reply Like
  • Renzo
    , contributor
    Comments (352) | Send Message
     
    They were probably part of this cabinet meeting in the Maldives.
    http://bit.ly/11dXBSN
    1 Dec 2012, 12:34 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    "Arrival Date 2012-11-21"

     

    "360 CTN 10 PALLETS 360 CARTONS ACTIVATED CARBON YP 5 HS CODE 3802 10 0002"

     

    http://bit.ly/AnieIv
    30 Nov 2012, 07:21 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Hmmmm. Now an optimistic might conclude that info tends to confirm Maya's comment,

     

    " pace of future announcements to be announced...has quickened."
    30 Nov 2012, 07:30 PM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    Another one! Something behind the curtain never makes me feel good except this one.
    30 Nov 2012, 07:34 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9834) | Send Message
     
    Ahh! Great catch, iindelco.

     

    That's a prime positive piece of newsy news!
    30 Nov 2012, 07:38 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Anyone know typical steaming time for Japan to U.S. West coast? Or, put another way I wonder whether the activated carbon order was placed before, same dar, or after the Q3 conference call.
    30 Nov 2012, 07:49 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (797) | Send Message
     
    iindelco:
    Gracias, Usted es un genio!!! (You are a genius)
    Carlos
    30 Nov 2012, 08:34 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    3 weeks from China (~23 days), then about another week to get goods from port to the east coast. That's the ballpark average of about 10 google hits I read.
    30 Nov 2012, 08:49 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, EdM.
    30 Nov 2012, 09:44 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Tried a few internet searches and stumbled across http://bit.ly/YzF8Ax? which presents voyage schedules from Kobe, Jp to LA. There is a pretty wide range of transit times to choose from. In days, the choices were 13, 14, 25, 39, 44, 47, and 48. Indicators point to placement of that 360 ctn activated carbon order a minimum of one week prior to the Q3 cc and likely a week or two earlier than that.
    30 Nov 2012, 10:12 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Delivery of 3 orders for 4MT activated carbon per rough estimates discussed in APC171 and earlier suggest sufficient carbon supply for production of enough C electrodes to make 14,400 to 24,000 PbC batteries. Allowing $100K for quarterly sales of TurboStart products (classic & racing car batteries) would leave PbC revenues of $560K in Q2 and $183K in Q3. Considering those earlier qtr PbC sales volumes, set aside of NSC purchase order batteries, and the 52 PbCs delivered in November to the hybrid truck OEM, carbon use for roughly 2,550 batteries can be accounted for. Uncommitted inventories of activated carbon and assembled C electrodes could be on hand for 11,850 - 21,450 PbC batteries.
    30 Nov 2012, 10:37 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    iindelco--great catch, and I just checked earlier in the week!

     

    D-inv, I thought of you---hope your head's not exploding!

     

    What near-term (no way Axion uses its currently precious cash for sales a long time from now, I still think) customer demand do you think could account for so much expected volume? Process of elimination says not enough from truck (hybrid and APUs), HUB, automobile start-stop, or rail customers. Which leaves PCs. One more time, this is from the 11/15/2012 Q3 results press release, "We believe that the announcement of the first confirmed projects, for these various Axion Cube applications, will be made over the next several months. The market is sizable from both a geographic and a financial perspective." So that's my guess.
    1 Dec 2012, 01:55 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1510) | Send Message
     
    D-inv,
    Was looking at your calculation and past concentrators and saw where John had projected about 1 Kilo of activated carbon per battery. So three orders of 3,990 kilos would be enough activated carbon for 15,960 batteries. Has the one kilo per battery estimate changed? Sorry if I missed that.

     

    I can't remember the sales price of the PbC's to NS, and have to go out, but that would give us some idea of potential revenue from PbC sales. Axion received $475,000, but can't recall the number of batteries that represented. As a rough starting point $500 X 16,000 would equal $8,000,000 in revenue, not discounting carbon used in test batteries and what has already been sold. Sorry not to get the figures accurate, but have to leave.
    1 Dec 2012, 06:00 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    I think the real number is closer to 1 pound of activated carbon per battery because the one kilo estimate didn't account for the non-carbon components in the electrode assembly - e.g. the current collector and the grafoil corrosion barriers.
    1 Dec 2012, 06:24 AM Reply Like
  • bobhaeger
    , contributor
    Comments (39) | Send Message
     
    D-inv, I think JP estimated 20k PbC batts potential per shipment, so about 60k potential batts since May from the 3 shipments, or am I missing something?
    1 Dec 2012, 08:54 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    The 20'000 per shipment number was based on an assumed weight of ten tons.
    1 Dec 2012, 09:03 AM Reply Like
  • bobhaeger
    , contributor
    Comments (39) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, JP. I missed the discussion in APC 171 and Bug's contribution:

     

    6 Nov, 11:07 AM Reply ! Report Abuse Like 4
    BugEYE Comments (102)

     

    D-inv, it seems we differ mainly about how much do 360 cartons of active carbon weigh. From a Chinese consulting website, I found two axion power bills of lading dated in 2010. http://bit.ly/UvTCur
    Sorry the page is in Chinese but you can find that there are two lines starting with "ACTIVATED CARBON". The two lines then indicate axion power imported 94/CTN weighing 1079 KG (11.48 kg/ctn) and 72/CTN 822KG (11.42 kg/ctn) activated carbon in the first half of 2010. If the foregoing information is accurate and KURARAY and AXPW stick to that package, all I can infer is 360 cartons weigh a little more than 4 metric tons.
    6 Nov, 07:00 PM Reply ! Report Abuse Like 6

     

    D-inv Comments (1554)

     

    " If the foregoing information is accurate and KURARAY and AXPW stick to that package, all I can infer is 360 cartons weigh a little more than 4 metric tons."

     

    Weight of the carbon, then, does seem to be in question. Earlier discussions basically worked on the premise that 360 cartons represented a full shipping container and such containers held just under 20K lbs of activated carbon. If 360 cartons only weigh 4 metric tons then the PbC revenue estimate presented earlier were overstated and would recalculate as ~$1.7 million instead of $4.2 million. Implied revenues for all products sold in the quarter would total ~$4 million instead of $6.5 million.
    6 Nov, 07:35 PM Reply ! Report Abuse Like 3
    1 Dec 2012, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (714) | Send Message
     
    Brilliant find iiendelco!

     

    I have been planning to set up a weekly reminder to check the import site but you obviously have that already in hand.

     

    Lets hope that the frequency continues to pick up!
    1 Dec 2012, 09:54 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    I think I got confused about what the weight was when Tim Enright started talking about container weight.
    1 Dec 2012, 09:55 AM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (714) | Send Message
     
    I believe that we are talking about 6 weeks from order to delivery.

     

    I wrote a few lines on that shortly after the last discovery.
    1 Dec 2012, 09:56 AM Reply Like
  • bobhaeger
    , contributor
    Comments (39) | Send Message
     
    Hard to figure which number is right. Here's Tim's contribution from APC 171:

     

    9 Oct, 06:57 PM Reply ! Report Abuse Like 1
    Tim Enright Comments (994)

     

    I just got a phone call from Kurray and the product in a 20' container weighs (at minimum) 9000kg or 19,800lbs.

     

    The reason I say at minimum is because the same contact quoted around 30kg per carton and there are 360 cartons which would be 10,800kg or 23,760lbs. The 30kg per carton was a guess but he seemed to know that max that could be shipped via a container.

     

    For what it is worth...
    9 Oct, 07:22 PM
    1 Dec 2012, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • bobhaeger
    , contributor
    Comments (39) | Send Message
     
    To keep it all in one APC, here's the link from Metro in APC-161 to the prior 2 orders, so all 3 shipments were for 360 cartons each. http://bit.ly/PlsoKJ

     

    I find it hard to contain my excitement!
    1 Dec 2012, 10:20 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1510) | Send Message
     
    bobhaeger,
    Yes, I signed up to get the bill of lading and found where 360 cartons is 3,990 kilos. The sign up is free and instantaneous. They aren't as up to date as the iindelco/maya link, but have weight and making the assumption the 360 cartons weigh the same in September and November.

     

    http://bit.ly/PlsoKJ

     

    If we just use the shipments made in September and November and use John's calculation of 1 lb per battery, and using 2.2046 lbs. per kilo we have 7,980 kilos X 2.2046 that is equal to 17,592 batteries. Where D-inv has already calculated the revenue per battery on the NS999 to be $463 ($400,000/864 batteries-, and if we assume the same price - for lack of better method - and not adding value, i.e. the sale of a PC) then the two shipments would represent potential future revenues of $8,145,096 from PbC sales only. However, need to subtract out sales already made as D-inv did above, plus think about a few batteries will be used for internal testing/research.
    1 Dec 2012, 10:52 AM Reply Like
  • rupers
    , contributor
    Comments (62) | Send Message
     
    Just a fyi - Long Beach port strike in its 4th day (since Nov 27).

     

    http://lat.ms/VgmBF0
    1 Dec 2012, 11:10 AM Reply Like
  • bobhaeger
    , contributor
    Comments (39) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, Metro. Looks like you nailed the shipment weight.
    1 Dec 2012, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • bobhaeger
    , contributor
    Comments (39) | Send Message
     
    iindelco's link shows an 11/21 arrival. Wonder if the shipment is stuck at the port, and whether that will cause Axion any heartburn if it is.
    1 Dec 2012, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    " I signed up to get the bill of lading and found where 360 cartons is 3,990 kilos."

     

    Fantastic metro! That weight info puts resource estimate on much more solid ground. And at 3,990 kg per shipment, the carbon content of a single shipment would be more than adequate to build all PbC batteries that I tried to account for using available information from the NSC purchase order contract, financial reports for 2nd and 3rd quarters, and Axion management remarks in 2nd and 3rd quarter CCs. Those battery counts were
    864 - NS999
    1,210 - 2nd quarter non-toll contract revs.
    24 - First HUB supplied to Rosewater
    30 - NSC contract amendment mentioned in Q3 CC
    395 - 3rd quarter non-toll contract revs.
    52 - 4th quarter shipment to hybrid truck OEM
    2,575 - Total

     

    I used a total count of 2,550 earlier on the assumption that value of 1st HUB batteries was included in reported 3rd quarter revenues. If each PbC battery takes ~one lb. of bio-carbon, the first 360 ctn shipment of 3,990 kilos was sufficient for 8,700 - 8,800 PbCs. Residual 2nd quarter shipment carbon on hand plus two additional 3,990 kilo shipments points to C electrode and bio-carbon inventory
    sufficient for 23,550 - 23,750 PbC batteries.
    1 Dec 2012, 01:18 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    Awesome job, guys!

     

    Do we think that hardly any of the carbon was used for manufacturing trials, as Axion has been essentially done with that by the 5/2012 shipment's arrival? Or any other meaningful non-revenue uses?
    1 Dec 2012, 02:20 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Mr. I, With the Horsepower Axion has in R&D I'd bet and hope development for higher power/energy choices and cost reduction continues to be an ongoing effort. Very important.

     

    In addition the process guys are probably using all production runs and creating a few to improve process efficiency/capability improvements as well. Also muy importante.

     

    So there is still going to be some internal use for development.
    1 Dec 2012, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Carlos, Not a genius for sure. It's an obsessive compulsive disorder.

     

    Perhaps a little too much interest in the battery sector.
    1 Dec 2012, 02:33 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    Perhaps I missed something while on vacation. It seems everyone is calculating revenues from finished PbC batteries based on the carbon shipments received.

     

    How do we know that Axion is not stockpiling carbon electrodes, rather than finished PbC batteries, in anticipation of a strategic partner contract? I would imagine the revenues and costs/profits of electrodes vs finished batteries would be somewhat different.
    1 Dec 2012, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    With R&D costs running $1.2 million per quarter there's no question that work to improve performance and refine manufacturing methods is a high priority.

     

    Just as it takes a decade to move from R&D to product it usually takes another decade to move up the learning curve and optimize manufacturing methods and costs.
    1 Dec 2012, 02:44 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    iindelco---absolutely. What I am getting at is what is the net number of PbCs that could realistically be made and sold from the carbon in those three shipments from 5/2012 to 11/2012, starting with a gross number of about 23,500 (from D-inv's calc's above)?

     

    One "discount" factor is the manufacturing utilization rate or whatever term manufacturers use for the portion of raw materials that makes it into the end product. What is it for the PbC? 99%? 66%?

     

    Another is how much was consumed while they were working the major kinks out of making the carbon sheets, then sheets to plates, etc.? Ditto for the minor kinks plus anything else that's significant.

     

    I'm not even close to a manufacturing expert, so some thoughts from you guys with good experience could be very useful in getting to the net number.
    1 Dec 2012, 02:56 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    SMaturin---we don't. If you want to calc your Explanation #2, that would be great!
    1 Dec 2012, 03:27 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2623) | Send Message
     
    "It's an obsessive compulsive disorder." Tell me about it ...
    1 Dec 2012, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Mr. I, You're thoughts are right on.

     

    Trying to figure out what their quarterly sales are based on activated carbon purchases is a valid effort but an imperfect one. Many auxiliary activities are occurring which act to decouple any high level of statistical significance to the carbon to PbC sales equation. Plus the action of buying the activated carbon is a batch process for economic and safety stock reasons.

     

    In the end it is a good exercise to determine how many units might come from each batch and we can say the level of activity is increasing. Trending can be a very important metric for an audience looking through a well etched window for clues. Unfortunately there are just too many factors that reduce this activity to an imperfect model at this phase of Axion's story so we just don't know.

     

    Could be Enders is using a bunch of it because he hates the taste of the water in Newcastle!
    1 Dec 2012, 03:39 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, Misery loves company. And good company at that!
    1 Dec 2012, 03:42 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1350) | Send Message
     
    bobheager - "Hard to figure which number is right. Here's Tim's contribution from APC 171:"

     

    Hard to argue with a bill of lading. My information came from a representative that returned my phone call from a message I left on the Sacramento phone number http://bit.ly/Vd1j9k. The fellow had a heavy accent so perhaps we got our signals crossed.

     

    Anyway, the BOL usually refers to total weight of product including packaging. There are some dimensions of their sample bottle on their web site. http://bit.ly/RrUhlh It has the shipping weight at 2lbs. Metro's numbers have a carton weight of 24lbs (3990/360=11kg). The dimensions of the round sample bottle is 12x8x5 which didn't make sense until the thought that it might include the quantity in the carton (12x2lbs=24lbs). However, the sample also notes the amount of carbon in the bottle is only 300g which is .66 lbs. Could the product weigh less that the package it is in? I guess maybe it could if it included the pallet it is being shipped on.

     

    If the dimensions of the bottle is 8x5 x12 bottles x 360 cartons that's 500 cu ft to occupy an 1100 cu ft container. That's about waist high which is a typical height for a single stack pallet. However, I don't see why this couldn't be double stacked so perhaps this is a 1/2 or minimum order?

     

    Disclaimer: This speculation assumes the sample information is correct and applies to the production product.
    1 Dec 2012, 03:51 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2653) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco---resales to Brita? ;^P

     

    I completely understand the imperfection--this is a spec stock with very limited info flow from the company. But I completely believe there can be tremendous value in attempting to lower the risk thru understanding. It's what this blog is for, after all.

     

    So, on the high end, about 23k batteries. On the low end, I'm curious to see what others come up with.
    1 Dec 2012, 04:29 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Mr. I, No disagreements with your thoughts. Work with what you have but make sure you recognize the margin of error.

     

    A well thought out reasoning with error is better than the upside down view from a hole in the sand.
    1 Dec 2012, 04:56 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    SM, I think several of us are calculating POTENTIAL revenues, but the estimates will evolve. For instance, bids reponsive to RFPs have been mentioned in two CCs I believe. I doubt all bids will win contracts, but expect all bids submitted had performance deadlines of some kind. Let us hope TG & co. screened the RFPs effectively, bidding only on those with strong prospects of contract wins, and stipulated offer expiration dates.

     

    Walking the walk after talking the talk with bid offers is essential for company credibility.
    1 Dec 2012, 05:32 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Tim, I'm thinking sample bottle packaging could be a bit heavier than bulk packaging. Looking at a bulk packaging arrangement, might we see a pallet of heavy duty corrugated boxes full of vinyl bags filled with carbon? Would a pallet loaded 5w x 4d x 6h be likely? If so, a shipment of 360 ctn would consist of three pallets holding 120 ctn each for a total cargo weight of 1,330 kg or 2,932 lbs. (1.5 MT).

     

    http://anse.rs/VmNYAR suggests a typical 48" x 39 3/8" x 6" wooden pallet capable of holding a 3 ton static load weighs 15 - 22 kg. Applying the lower pallet weight of 15 kg for use with 1.5 ton shipment and assuming 360 carton weights sum to a comparable figure, packaging materials per pallet would amount to 30 kg. Three pallets of 120 cartons weighing 3,990 kg in total would consist of 90 kg shipping/packaging materials and 3,900 kg activated carbon.

     

    Assuming 80% net manufacturing yield (arbitrary # out of thin air), 3,120 kg carbon would find its way into electrodes. 3,120 kg = 6,878 lbs. Three shipments of 3,120 kg net carbon would support production of enough C electrodes for 20,634 PbC batteries if each battery included 1 lb C.
    1 Dec 2012, 07:13 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1350) | Send Message
     
    Bulk packaging in bags would defiantly be the way to ship the carbon unless the smaller bottles somehow made manufacturing easier. I would think you could scoop from a bag as easy as you could open and pour. Moisture or contamination might be another reason they might keep them bottled.

     

    When you pack into a 20' container the goal would be to fill the floor so the contents does not shift. You could put every thing in one end and pack to the ceiling but then you would have to block and brace. If you wanted to get rid of the weight of the pallets you could live load the floor (no pallets) if the container was headed all the way to the customer.

     

    I am curious if you are paying by the cubic foot or by weight or both when you ship a container? My guess would be a minimum cost for the 1100 cu ft that included a weight allowance. Next time we see one of these just let me know and I will go pick it up, deliver it and talk with the folks on the docks...
    1 Dec 2012, 07:54 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Trying to reconcile numbers from different sources, I find that weight of a standard 20' shipping container is 2.4 tonnes (Imperial) = 2.44 tonnes (metric). If minimum weight of a 20' container full of activated carbon is 9,000 kg and weight of the container itself is 2,440 kg, 6,560 kg are left for container contents. Assuming 3,990 kg for 360 cartons of activated carbon addresses weight of carton contents, a residual estimate for packaging/shipping material weight of 2,570 kg (~65% of contents) is implied.
    2 Dec 2012, 01:21 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    While the exercise is interesting, I don't think we have enough data to use carbon purchases as a metric for estimating future sales. I know that my carbon content per battery calculations are in the ballpark but nowhere near precise. I'm far less confident with shipment weight estimates because the numbers vary widely and we don't know whether one or more shipments might have been rejected by Axion because of quality issues.

     

    For now, I'm happy to know that carbon purchases suggest much larger sales numbers in the future than we've seen in the past.
    2 Dec 2012, 01:50 AM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2705) | Send Message
     
    =( 20,000 pounds sure gave us more hopium. But I'll take the potential 7-8M in revenues.
    2 Dec 2012, 05:39 AM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2705) | Send Message
     
    JP,
    Since the bill of ladings are in the public domain do you think Axion would answer questions about how much carbon there is per shipment (and how many PbC can be made from said carbon)?

     

    It seems strange that we, as investors, have to guess on weight (and whether these are "new" orders and/or replacement shipments).

     

    I'm not sure what purpose it serves for Axion to be coy here. Our speculations here have to be in the ballpark but I'd hate for us to start thinking 1-3M a quarter in PbC sales when the guess work could be eliminated by one conversation with TG or Vani etc.

     

    I'm hoping those who have been brave enough to make similar calls into management in the past can do so again here. There's many on this board who are knowledge enough to talk shop with Axion brass and can then keep our board on the straight and narrow.

     

    Am I asking for too much here?
    2 Dec 2012, 06:30 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    I'm not sure how much information Axion is going to want to let into the public domain. It's one thing to do rough volume substitution estimates and another entirely for Axion to release a detailed bill of materials and costs. Given all the things we don't know including possible returns, scrap rates and heaven knows what else, I'd be very reluctant to put much stock in our calculations. Since expectations are easy to create and hard to live down, I'd much rather leave that in Axion's hands.
    2 Dec 2012, 08:10 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1082) | Send Message
     
    buy a lead battery, weight it's various parts. remember that 1 mole of Pb is 207.2 grams, and one mole of C is 12 grams (ratio!). so how many parts lead per parts carbon (some guess work) and we've got the answer TG won't tell.

     

    also (alternatively from http://bit.ly/Veh5Ra

     

    C6x-(H+)x D nC6(x-2)-.(H+)x-2 + 2H+ + 2e- = carbon side

     

    i dunno what n is in nC6 but looks like 12 C total 12 * 12g for 144g of carbon
    2 Dec 2012, 09:13 AM Reply Like
  • bobhaeger
    , contributor
    Comments (39) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, Tim. Looks like there's still uncertainty about exactly how much activated carbon is in each shipment, but the positive trend is clear - Axion is rapidly increasing its ability to make PbC batteries.
    2 Dec 2012, 09:32 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1082) | Send Message
     
    ok from internets i learn that 60% of the weight of a battery comes from lead. batteries weight 15-25lbs. normal battery chem:

     

    PbO2 + 4H+ + SO42- + 2e- D PbSO4 + 2H2O (+1.685 V) (in PbC)
    Pb + SO42-D PbSO4 + 2e- (-0.365 V) (not in PbC)

     

    well i see 4 Pb in that or 1.827lbs. if a battery weighs 25lbs then about 15 pounds is lead.so looking at nC6x-(H+)x D nC6(x-2)-.(H+)x-2 + 2H+ + 2e- (discharged) i see 12 C or about 1.7 lbs of copper per battery.

     

    please lmk if i'm misreading this or what questions it brings up.
    2 Dec 2012, 09:35 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    I did my back of the napkin calculations using specific gravities for lead oxide (10 g/cc) and activated carbon (0.5 g/cc) and came up with a ratio in the 20 range. Then I found the weight for a Lifeline 30HT battery (96 pounds) and a 30HT PbC (73 pounds), calculated the weight difference and viola – roughly 1 pound of carbon to replace 20 pounds of lead. It's rough back of the napkin stuff, but close enough for government work and ballpark estimates.
    2 Dec 2012, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Mathieu, Only problem with using this data point is that all batteries are not made the same way. If I recall correctly Axion was making the Pb electrode thicker for durability reasons since life is an important factor and the carbon electrode assy lasts so long. Also they have some latitude to balance power and energy in this area.

     

    Just some thoughts to temper your efforts.
    2 Dec 2012, 11:28 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4115) | Send Message
     
    Definitely have under identified variable values so accuracy is unlikely if working only with bill of lading and carbon-content-of-PbC data. Seems to me the best we can hope for is reduction in the zone of ignorance. In that regard, we have a few more information points of possible use. One might infer that each of the three carbon shipments were preceded by an identifiable event. The May Carbon delivery was preceded ~5 weeks earlier by Axion's PR regarding NSC's NS999 battery purchase. The September carbon delivery, IIRC, followed the Q2 CC by 5-to-6 weeks, and the November delivery was preceded by multiple September presentations that are known to have elicited RFPs (SAE, Utility conference) and award of a $400K grant to NSC for electric locomotive development. Q3 CC remarks by TG mentioned multiple PowerCube RFP bids "in the field" for projects ranging in size from 50KW to 4MW. Bids nearing 'maturity' were mentioned in regard to RFPs received following the September electric power utility conference attended by 22 utilities. At minimum, ISTM one can conclude that existence of the third carbon order indicates "bids in the field" plus contractual delivery commitments (NSC, Q2 & Q3 sales) already undertaken and typical Q4 "application testing" sales account for carbon supply provided by the May and September carbon deliveries (about 13,750 PbC-30HTs).

     

    Actual known battery sale counts and revenues (est.) Q2-to-date suggest 1,210 PbCs in Q2, 395 PbCs in Q3, and 52 in Q4 (hybrid truck OEM) account for 1,657 batteries. ~894 are committed to NSC per amended April sales contract and an allowance for Q4 "application testing" sales, say 500 PbCs, is needed. A residual 10,700 PbC-30HTs would be available to support performance on "bids-in-the-field" and expected market sales. Expectation of 20 HUB sales would need 240 PbCs. A 50KW RFP bid would need 100 PbCs and a 4MW RFP bid would need 4,480 (8 x 560 PbC count in New Castle/Rosewater .5MW/0.25MWh PowerCube). 5,140 PbCs would remain available to support other, unidentified RFP bids.

     

    Continuing NSC delay/stall in taking delivery of batteries batteries ordered in April does not IMO support receptivity of RFP bids submitted to others. Unless NSC takes delivery and is either announced or the NS999 is seen moving under its own power, I don't expect more than a 50KW mini-PC, two .5/.25 MwH PowerCubes, 20 HUBs, and one hybrid truck OEM sale in 2012 market sales. Together with 500 "application testing" sales, the market sales would push PbC sales counts to 1,912. At an average price of $465, 1,192 batteries would generate PbC revenue of $889,080. NSC order delivery would bump PbC revenues to $1.3 million and public awareness of that fact or of a Class 8 hybrid truck performing well in commercial service could prompt acceptance this year of more RFP bids.

     

    FWIW
    2 Dec 2012, 11:37 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1082) | Send Message
     
    yeah i know it's full of assumptions but i get 1.5 lbs per as a conservative #. running it for me it's greater than 1 lb, greater than 1.25 so i'm add another quarter pound. you could double Jon's numbers, get at 2 and still arrive with a better than shot in the dark # for batters from recent order.
    2 Dec 2012, 11:50 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30055) | Send Message
     
    If you read the patents you'll see that the electrode assemblies are five-layer laminations that start with a copper current collector core, then add two sheets of impregnated grafoil that act as conductive corrosion barriers and then add two sheets of carbon electrode material. By the time you account for the other materials in the electrode assemblies, I think one pound of activated carbon per is a pretty reasonable estimate.
    2 Dec 2012, 12:17 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Mathieu, No doubt it's better to peel back the onion and make some assumptions to determine what's inside vs staring at it whole and guessing. Just adding some info. for the assessment criteria.
    2 Dec 2012, 01:46 PM Reply Like
  • Ishikawa
    , contributor
    Comments (181) | Send Message
     
    in no disrepect, please do not treat AXPW as a mama-papa shop.
    AXPW, be it listed on pink sheet, is still a public corporation. Let TG do what should be done, after all he is the CEO and stop second guess him which, in the worst case condition, may put him in a disadvantaged position in his negotiation on pricing. jmho.
    2 Dec 2012, 03:24 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Ishikawa, None taken.

     

    I understand your concern. I don't think we'll get close enough to understanding the proportions of the input materials or the process required to make a PbC battery well enough to put TG and thus Axion at a disadvantage in negotiations.

     

    Companies like BMW will request this or get it themselves anyway. It's what they do to control their costs.

     

    In my opinion what we are doing is trying to understand some aspects of Axion from a distance to better manage our individual investment strategies. Individuals to large investment concerns do this all the time. Investment houses even hire engineers to dissect businesses and competitiors to understand their value before investing or lending support.

     

    I don't think it's the intent of anyone here to put Axion at any disadvantage. In many cases I think the more we are learning the more support they are getting via added share price support. That's a good thing when you're going to be looking for capital in the future.

     

    Hope this makes sense but if you're still concerned please feel free to express yourself as you see fit. I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
    2 Dec 2012, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • Ishikawa
    , contributor
    Comments (181) | Send Message
     
    iindelco,

     

    Thanks for the comments. Appreciated it.
    2 Dec 2012, 06:53 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2768) | Send Message
     
    Karma - A123 problems

     

    <As we mentioned earlier, often long stretches of time go by without hearing a peep from Fisker…but that doesn’t mean nothing is happening.
    Sometimes it means bad things are happening.
    On Wednesday at the LA Auto Show, Fisker laid out a bomb by saying that the factory in Finland, operated by Valmet Automotive, has been shuttered for a month while the A123 bankruptcy plays out in US courts.
    No timetable has been set for a resumption of production, as A123′s assets are set to be auctioned off on December 6th. Even after the auction, there is no guarantee of a quick resolution to Fisker’s manufacturing woes.
    Normally, a month or two shutdown would not be an issue for the slow selling Fisker. Unfortunately for the company, superstorm Sandy just wiped out practically all of the companies US inventory, as 350 Karmas where burned or drowned in a New Jersey Port.
    “Because we have no batteries, there’s no production right now. Inventory is starting to get a little low,” CEO Tony Posawatz said in an interview, without elaborating. “We’d like to restart production as quickly as possible. We should know the outcome of the auction by the middle of December.”>

     

    http://bit.ly/SAxzEv
    30 Nov 2012, 08:48 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9329) | Send Message
     
    Nothing we don't know already but a coupe interesting points.

     

    ‘Green Car Year’ isn’t here yet

     

    http://bit.ly/VmhxT2

     

    PS Got all excited for a moment as I saw a message from APH to go to the next concentrator............. only to find out I was not at the latest one. Arrgh. lol
    1 Dec 2012, 02:15 PM Reply Like