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  • Axion Power Concentrator 222: Mar. 25: Axion Power Completes New Continuous Roll Carbon Sheeting Process 258 comments
    Mar 26, 2013 8:00 AM | about stocks: AXPW

    Latest News, Articles and Presentations...

    Axion Power's CEO Discusses Q4 2012 Results - Earnings Call Transcript

    Thomas Granville CEO: "We left the designation 'development stage company' in the dust in 2012 and there's no slowdown in sight."

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Axion Power Reports Results for 2012 --

    Chairman & CEO Thomas Granville commented, "Axion continued to make important strides in the fourth quarter, making 2012 a landmark year overall. Obviously our best year ever will be the first year when PbC revenue starts to show significant growth but it was a good step in that direction that we were able to recognize the first big PbC sale in the 4th quarter, to Norfolk Southern. This coincides with our first 10K filing without "development stage company" status. With our increase in sales, and more specifically sales of our core business product, we are now recognized as a commercial entity for filing purposes.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Axion Power Completes New Continuous Roll Carbon Sheeting Process

    "This is a giant leap forward for us and allows us to make a better product at a reduced cost," said Axion Power's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Thomas Granville. "It's the final step in automating our complete activated carbon negative electrode manufacturing process and it brings us tighter quality control, better production yields, meaningful production quantities and significant labor cost reductions..."

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Axion Power and EPower Engine Systems Inaugurate Strategic Alliance Using PbC Batteries in Hybrid Drivetrains for Class 8 Trucks

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dr. Ed Buiel, Axion's CTO until the end of 2010 -- A link to an archive of his comments on yadoodle about the PbC battery and much more. Invaluable commentary! Thanks to 481086 for putting the list together.

    Axion Power PbC Batteries Continue To Demonstrate Effectiveness For Railroad Applications -- Axion completed shipping its high-performance PbC batteries to Norfolk Southern Corp. (NYSE:NS), one of North America's leading transportation providers, for use in Norfolk Southern's first all electric locomotive - the NS-999.

    Axion Power Residential Energy Storage HUB Certified to UL, CSA Standards -- Axion receives UL certification and CSA Standards for their Residential Energy Storage HUB.

    "ePower's Series Hybrid Electric Drive - Unmatched Fuel Economy for Heavy Trucks" -- by John Petersen. Discusses the potential fuel savings for ePower's Hybrid electric drive for class 8 trucks using Axion's PbC batteries.

    "Axion Power - A Battery Manufacturer Charging Forward" -- by John Petersen. This is an excellent summation on Axion Power's history. It is a good starting point for introducing Axion Power to friends and family.

    13th European Lead Battery Conference, ELBC -- Sliderocket of John Petersen's presentation at the ELBC.

    Dr. Ender's Dickinson's Presentation on Axion's PbC -- Link to his slideshow at the 13th ELBC.

    Axion Power's 3rd Quarter Report and Press Release -- Seeking Alpha also published the transcript of the conference call here.

    RoseWater Joins Queen's University on Energy Storage Study -- Testing will determine the effects of residential energy storage systems on local power grids.

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    Axion Power Weighted Moving Average Prices and Volume:

    (updated through 03/23/2013)

    (click to enlarge)

    (click to enlarge)

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    Axion Power Monthly Volume versus FINRA Short Percentage:

    In late January I wrote an Instablog about the precipitous decline in reported FINRA short sales as a percentage of total trading volume. Over the last two weeks that trend has accelerated and the percentages for the month of February and the last four weeks are solidly in single digits. I view this graph as another confirmation of seller exhaustion. The big uglies are history and it looks like everybody who really wanted to sell already has.

    John Petersen's instablog here.

    (click to enlarge)

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    Axion Power Concentrator Comments:

    (click to enlarge)

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    Links to important Axion Power research and websites:

    The Axion Power Concentrator Web Sites, created by APC commentator Bangwhiz. It is a complete easy-to-use online archive of all the information contained in the entire Axion Power Concentrator series from day one, including reports, articles, comments and posted links.

    Axion Power Wikispaces Web Site, created by APC commentator WDD. It is an excellent ongoing notebook aggregation of Axion Power facts.

    Axion Power Website. The first place any prospective investor should go and thoroughly explore with all SEC filings and investor presentations as well as past and present Press Releases.

    Axion Power Intra day Statistics Tracking: HTL tracks and charts AXPW's intra-day statistics.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Be sure and either follow the Axion Power Host ID on Seeking Alpha or click the check-box labeled "track new comments on this article" just ahead of the comments section!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    WARNING: This is a troll free zone. We reserve the right to eliminate posts, or posters that are disruptive.

    Enjoy!

    Disclosure: I am long OTCQB:AXPW.

Back To Axion Power Host's Instablog HomePage »

Instablogs are blogs which are instantly set up and networked within the Seeking Alpha community. Instablog posts are not selected, edited or screened by Seeking Alpha editors, in contrast to contributors' articles.

Comments (258)
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  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (696) | Send Message
     
    Oh what a wonderful morning!

     

    Hope to be buying a few more shares today. Being first must be a good omen!
    26 Mar 2013, 08:06 AM Reply Like
  • growsmart
    , contributor
    Comments (158) | Send Message
     
    #2?
    26 Mar 2013, 08:08 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    03/25/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (up later).
    # Trds: 58, MinTrSz: 400, MaxTrSz: 83600, Vol 355680, AvTrSz: 6132
    Min. Pr: 0.2771, Max Pr: 0.3000, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2850
    # Buys, Shares: 19 83400, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2960
    # Sells, Shares: 39 272280, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2817
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:3.26 (23.4% “buys”), DlyShts 4000 (01.12%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 1.47%

     

    Summary: lots of sellers offset, to a large degree, by lots of bullish buyers. A good sign, IMO. The only real question, for “what's next”, is whether the sellers, that started selling many days ago and continued today, are near exhaustion at this price level. The late-day recovery from some seriously horrible looking action early on makes me think this may be the case. A minor concern is whether the bullish folks still have the wherewithal to continue adding at or above current levels. If we have new buyers entering, it seems likely. If most buying was the “old guard”, I suspect not.

     

    I'll be watching the next several days for continuation of strength or loss of it.

     

    The day started roughly. Through 13:09 we had a buy:sell of 1:19.42 with a VWAP of $0.2820. As seen by the EOD metrics above, we improved quiet a bit thereafter. Because I believe a lot of today's behavior was a continuation of sellers that had previously decided to exit, and saw nothing in the CC that made them change their mind, I won't do too much TA today.

     

    The asks by the sellers held up well until 12:08, but it made little difference as the predominate action was hitting the bids, evidenced by the buy:sell through 13:09. It was actually much worse than that though – through 12:06 the buy:sell was 1:71.09 on volume of 216,280 shares (60.81% of day's volume, helped out by someone delivering ~100K shares to Poul), but the VWAP was $0.2827. My assessment was there was some selling pressure. |:-\ The VWAP was maintained primarily because the bids remained relatively strong, >=$0.28 through 10:41. From there through 12:38 they were in the $0.275x-$0.277x area before coming back to >= $0.28 again at 13:44, where they remained, even hitting $0.29 briefly at 15:10, before dropping back to the $0.277x area somewhere around 15:23.

     

    Of course, this late-day action on the bids made less difference because the action had switched to bullish with a very high percentage of trades going at the ask, which remained >= $0.28, and with a lot of time spent at $0.299x and even $0.30, through the majority of the latter part of the day. That's why we see the dramatic improvement in both the buy:sell and VWAP by EOD. Keep in mind this is even more impressive because Poul's trade was both a “sell” to him and was earlier in the day, ~10:34, so the late day action wasn't skewed by a large trade.

     

    A little TA ... A higher low and higher high on relatively high volume and we ended with “gravestone doji”. Regardless, Bulkowski points out that it actually portends a bearish move only 51% of the time and price movement afterward is not all that impressive on the down move. It's best performance, meeting price target, comes in a break up out of a bear market. So even if we get a move down, he suggests that it usually won't move far. A common 10-day gain, if we move up, is 5%+ over 10 days, considered by him to be quite good performance.

     

    Price continued to move away from my experimental 13-period lower Bollinger, fulfilling the hint from past days that price might not make the full six days of “pushing” the lower Bollinger. Stochastic, MFI and ADX related all showed improvement while the other oscillators I watch weakened. This mixed action is understandable given all the above described action.

     

    Price also continued its departure from the 0.88%/day descending line I had been watching.

     

    50-day SMA is accelerating downward. Without some price move up, we will shortly get a “death cross”. It's hard to estimate when because both that and the 200-day are moving downward at different rates.

     

    The MACD histogram has stopped improving – not unexpected. But it is flat ATM, not deteriorating yet.

     

    On my experimental charts, just want to mention that average trade size, no doubt skewed by Poul's trade, is solidly in the mid-range of what I think is retail and actually exceeded all the averages I track on that. Daily short sales are in the absurdly low range again.

     

    My original inflection point calculations weakened, as we should expect, but not as much as I thought they would. We might see a quick recovery to showing strengthening again if the bullish action I thought I saw today carries through.

     

    My newer version, which includes some additional factors, showed less negative effect. Visually, it looked more like a mixed flattening for the moment. This may be a good test of whether this is an improvement over the original or not – ISTM that it more closely matches my assessment of what I saw in the bid, ask and trading action today. Let's hope that I and the chart aren't both wrong.

     

    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.

     

    HardToLove
    26 Mar 2013, 08:38 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Yesterday's UBSS ending big offer/anchor at .28 is gone for now.

     

    top offers to open:
    ATDF .29 5.6K
    NITE .298 5K, which led briefly
    PERT .30 2.5K
    26 Mar 2013, 09:34 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    One area we haven't discussed are these quotes from the CC:

     

    "Another major component is our more newly found competitiveness in the market. It's not just our batteries, and I'll talk more about cost reductions there later in the call, it's the entire Cube product, especially the electronics. We have implemented design changes and we have established ourselves with electronics manufacturers that can satisfy our specific needs for the PbC product, and they can do so on a quantity as opposed to a one-off basis. These strategic relationships carry over into our residential energy HUB.

     

    The HUB units are something that were introduced in September. Axion and our strategic partners, both achieved UL standard certification in the fourth quarter of 2012 and the subsequent first quarter of 2013. This is clearing the way for a path forward in marketing the product with Rosewater Energy in the U.S. and marketing the product offshore in several applications that include the HUB as a building block, applications like electric vehicle charging stations, community storage, small commercial powering, and others

     

    ...

     

    Yes, we feel confident in it now that our strategic partners – we designed this HUB and we had a different manufacturer in mind. We are working with a manufacturer, continue to work with a manufacturer that we've worked with for years, but for this particular product, we really thought we were going to utilize someone else. That didn't turn out as well as we would have liked, so we're with our long-term manufacturer here and that long-term manufacturer has achieved UL certification along with us. So we think the process is really going to move forward in a much faster pace in 2013

     

    ...

     

    Just to be clear, we utilize different manufacturers to make this product. When this product is made with our batteries in it, then it moves through Rosewater for marketing. So Rosewater would not be the failure mechanism here whatsoever. It really was – fortunately we went in parallel paths on the manufacturing, we were hoping for some competitiveness, if you will, but that didn't work out as well as we would have liked because they're still hung up with some UL issues, so we've moved to the manufacturer that's already resolved those issues."

     

    Sure would like to know who those manufacturers are! Private? Big Boy?

     

    Sounds like possible significant price reductions in the PowerCube??!!!!! ... making our RFPs much more competitive?!
    26 Mar 2013, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Wonder if they're planning a Hub aimed at Yuppie Greenies ... with the EV charger prominent in the advertising, and maybe the double inverter (which I presume adds significant expense?) replaced with a single lower priced one.
    26 Mar 2013, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    If you had any doubt about how big/crowded/confusing the inverter market is, take a look at this list from the state of California

     

    List of Eligible Inverters per SB1 Guidelines

     

    http://bit.ly/XE1HzS
    26 Mar 2013, 10:58 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >wtblanchard ... Wow, that is a long list and I see names there my engineer identifies as producers of pure crap to good quality with a lot we've never heard of. I guess we'll just stick to our little corner of the world.
    26 Mar 2013, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    wtb, also, in response to your Q re: why no PC sales:

     

    "I mentioned that the competitiveness of the product isn't as much due to the batteries as it is to some of the ancillary items that go along with the sale. Those items, things like the electronics, inverters, racking systems, et cetera, we really were in a one-off position with in the past, and now that we have gone beyond that and we're talking about economics of scale here with more opportunities, and now that we've redesigned some of the electronic needs that we have for our products, which you can appreciate in the early stages was overbuilt because the last thing in the world we wanted to see was a product out in the street that people could point to and say, it doesn't work. We were not going to put ourselves in that position. We look forward to our cube sales in 2013, Vani and his sales force have a lot of opportunities in that area, opportunities that we really didn't have in the past."

     

    And, apm's Q and TG's A, re: much improved carbon sheeting process:

     

    "...[is it] going to have a significant impact on their pricing in their quotes?

     

    "Well, let me put it this way, it will have a significant effect in our cost of carbon sheeting."

     

    So they've made several improvements that should help their PC bids and/or the profitability of them: no longer overbuilt, quantity benefits, lower cost of batteries (from sheeting cost reduction). Any others?

     

    Then there are the things we know almost nothing about, such as: prospective customer sensitivity to the recognition of Axion and the manufacturer, financing terms, if any, specific pricing and performance comparisons (we of course think the PbC part of the PC is generally superior to high cycling applications), etc.
    26 Mar 2013, 11:37 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1341) | Send Message
     
    I am sticking with my original thoughts. I believe Princeton is the one that has been working with Axion. They have lead-carbon charging profiles in most of their inverters (a biggie in my book) and then there is this...

     

    http://bit.ly/Zrh6qu
    26 Mar 2013, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • Keyboard
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    wtb,
    Going from double inversion to a single inverter would (besides reducing cost and continuous power loss) eliminate the "clean power" feature of the Residential Hub product.
    26 Mar 2013, 11:32 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Run Forest run.

     

    Ionova Technologies says ZIP-Cap ultracapacitors can offer 5x increase in energy density and 25x reduction in build cost (updated with graphic)

     

    "Ionova Technologies, Inc. reports that its zinc-ion-based ZIP-Cap asymmetric ultracapacitor is expected to provide a 25-fold reduction in build cost and a 5-fold increase in energy density (up to 35Wh/L) without the ultra-pure materials or expensive “dry-room” facilities that are necessary to build today’s ultracapacitors."

     

    http://bit.ly/105KEbz

     

    Edit, Moved from the last board. Someone's been following Axion IMO.

     

    "And this chemistry and architecture allow low-cost, ultra large scale manufacturing facilities used for electrolytic capacitors as well as lead/acid and alkaline batteries to be leveraged."
    26 Mar 2013, 11:56 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1506) | Send Message
     
    I think "is expected to provide" is the key phrase here. i.e.I am expecting Carole Bouquet to provide dinner for me this evening.
    26 Mar 2013, 12:11 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    The PbC is an asymmetric lead-carbon capacitor and it won't surprise me in the least to see other companies trying the same approach with other chemistries. While Ionova may be following a path blazed by Axion, they're at a much earlier development stage and will probably find as much undergrowth and brush as Axion had to fight its way through.
    26 Mar 2013, 12:15 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Seems obvious if not difficult as you suggest. So why didn't Axion patent it?
    26 Mar 2013, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... I'm a bit confused about this device. It says

     

    "They found that ionic hydrogen is evolved on the surface of the AC throughout the interior of the macro-scale electrode and nanoscale AC particle interior which, when the electrode potential is increased during cell discharge, is oxidized which causes a “pseudo-capacitive” effect, Seymour said. While this does increase capacitance, it demands the anode be brought back to open circuit potential of the carbon (0 volts for the cell) or charge accumulates, causing capacitance fade over cycling. "

     

    Isn't this the same problem that Ed Buiel pointed out in the Ultrabattery? The metal is more willing to discharge than the carbon
    26 Mar 2013, 12:39 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    DRich, I recall his comments in this area. I'm not if the reaction is the same as is being described here. Sounds like it but I'm not a chemist.

     

    Wish Dr. Buiel wasn't so busy or perhaps overwhelmed here.
    26 Mar 2013, 01:17 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    I think we should set up a "special" APC that is ruthlessly moderated and only allows Dr. Buiel questions and answers. That way he doesn't have to wade through all the back and forth looking for questions when he might have only a small amount of time to devote to helping us out.

     

    Perhaps he would agree to giving us a once a week "batch" answer-thon if we make it really easy for him.
    26 Mar 2013, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    WTB, Don't have an answer but we have certainly seen people mention that they don't have time to wade through all the posts here and I could expect that might be the case for Dr. Buiel as well. I'd certainly be happy with any level of participation. Even if we had a point person that managed some form of interface that he might participate in.
    26 Mar 2013, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2105) | Send Message
     
    DRich,

     

    Take a look at the referenced presentation by Seymour linked at the bottom of the article:
    http://1.usa.gov/Zs1lz7

     

    Activated carbon with mesoporosity sequesters the H and forms H2, instead of allowing the H+ to migrate back to cathode to form H2O. This causes the carbon to get "gummed up" with H2, reducing its capacitance, at partial states of discharge. The cell has to be discharged to zero state in order to oxidize the trapped H2 back into ionic H+, to "clean" the gummed up carbon.

     

    << Capacitance degradation
     Previously unreported issue; AC as anode in aqueous cells >1.2V (utilizing –ve overpotential)  Nascent H evolved at low anode potentials should be recombined to H2O at cathode
     In AC micropores H is trapped, combines to H2, decreases available surface for DL capacitance  When DOD is limited, capacitance decreases (until H is oxidized in a deeper DOD cycle)
     Above right shows AC capacitance decrease of 12% over 200 cycles to 1⁄2 DOD, 20mV/s
    >>

     

    They solved the problem by creating a carbon structure from a polymer aerogel, instead of activated carbon, so the structural porosity that was trapping H does not exist, and the H+ freely migrates through the anode to react back into H2O.

     

    <<
     Alternate carbons (purchased aerogel and carbide derived)
     Density increase from .5 to .75 increases electrode volumetric capacitance 50%
     But still a device cost driver at $50-100/kg and H trapping remains (carbide derived C)
     Ionova mesoporous aerogel-derived carbon
     Decrease cost to ~$15/kg
     Excellent rate, capacitance 165F/g @ 1.67A/g, target 180F/g and 140F/cm3 (0.77g/cm3)
     Good performance to –1.1V vs. Ag/AgCl enables 2.1V cell
     No micropores to trap evolved nascent H means no capacitance degradation @partial DOD
    >>
    26 Mar 2013, 03:52 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >SMaturin ... Thanks. I overlooked this presentation.
    26 Mar 2013, 05:34 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    These observations reflect my understanding of the primary reason Axion uses coconut husk carbons instead of manufactured carbons. In any porous media the two critical parameters are porosity and permeability. Styrofoam, for example, is porous as hell but highly impermeable. Engineers are great at creating materials that have tightly controlled porosity, but lousy at creating materials that have great permeability.

     

    When you make activated carbon from plant material, the entire cell and circulatory structure of the original plant material carries over to the carbon. That means you get micro-pores, meso-pores, macro-pores and a circulatory structure where none of the pores are isolated from each other. If the pores aren't isolated, the H can't get trapped.
    26 Mar 2013, 05:56 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >JP ... It seems there are manufacturing challenges to overcome with the aerogel derived carbon that Axion doesn't have. The things that bother me (because I don't totally understand the device) is the Farad capacitance of 220 to 300 and the self discharge rate seems rather high @ 22% in a 2.5 hour period. Overall it looks interesting but years away.
    26 Mar 2013, 06:18 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    Capacitance is one of those metrics that I've never fully understood and like to leave to my technical betters like you, Rick and others who frequent this forum. I agree that the self discharge rate seems high, but it's my understanding that most supercapacitors share that characteristic.
    26 Mar 2013, 06:30 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >JP ... I mention it only because it seemingly is always one of the traits of the PbC that people see as a drawback. Even as it is a self-replenishing (to a limited degree) supercapacitor with a supposedly much bigger (6x) energy punch. Yes, the PbC will weigh more ... Meh.
    26 Mar 2013, 06:37 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    Ultimately I figure its up to the end users to decide what is and is not a drawback. Since we seem to have a boatload of potential users that are spending their own money to learn more, I don't want to judge too quick based on my inadequate understanding of their needs.
    26 Mar 2013, 06:42 PM Reply Like
  • Renzo
    , contributor
    Comments (352) | Send Message
     
    I apologize if this has been suggested already as a method of financing, but Ur-Energy, a junior uranium miner just got $5 million by selling as-yet-to-be-mined product. No share dilution or loan payback. The share price is up a penny today, so the market reaction is a yawn.

     

    "Ur-Energy Inc. (TSX:URE, NYSE MKT:URG) ("Ur-Energy" or the "Company") is pleased to announce the closing of a uranium sales transaction that provides an immediate payment to the Company of approximately US$5.1 million. Proceeds from the transaction will support the ongoing construction at the Company's flagship Lost Creek Project."
    http://yhoo.it/10L0JWz

     

    Any thoughts about the possibility of Axion doing the same with PbC's for a big customer?
    26 Mar 2013, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    Renzo: I'm not sure a "streamer", such as the one you mention, Silver Wheaton for silver, etc. would be a good financing fit.

     

    Beyond the essential start-up mining activities that these sorts of arrangements finance, there is little risk once the mine becomes productive. The expertise these "streamers" have developed in assessing the quality of the projects they finance is likely not applicable to something like AXPW and I don't know there are any such thing as "streamers" for traditional industrial and manufacturing enterprises.

     

    For the miners that do streaming arrangements, there's a big downside - they have to sell x% to the streamer that financed at set price which may be way below market at any particular time.

     

    HardToLove
    26 Mar 2013, 01:17 PM Reply Like
  • Renzo
    , contributor
    Comments (352) | Send Message
     
    Clearly for such financing to work, the customer would have to be certain PbC is right for them. Given there is no "market" (akin to the uranium market with spot prices) for PbC's, there is no risk of the company having to sell at depressed prices.

     

    My pie-in-the-sky hope is that NS or BMW wants the batteries badly enough that they would essentially give Axion a short term loan for batteries they now know can be produced in quantity with the new automated carbon sheeting process.
    26 Mar 2013, 01:32 PM Reply Like
  • Johhny rambo
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    Renzo
    A solid enough, out of the box idea.

     

    However, I do believe that it is as you state, "pie in the sky"

     

    BMW and NS can't (or won't) even give us a decent purchase order, so I don't think that they need us as badly as we clearly need them, so realistically they have our nuts in a vice, not the opposite IMHO !
    26 Mar 2013, 01:48 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    Speak for your own nuts, please.
    26 Mar 2013, 03:31 PM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (843) | Send Message
     
    Re: NDAs: Is Axion legally allowed to make disclosures to potential financing partners they're not allowed to make public? -- Thanks.
    26 Mar 2013, 01:46 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    No !!!

     

    There are also serious issues under the Securities Laws if Axion makes disclosures to potential investors that are not made to the general public.

     

    Regulation FD is all about preventing selective disclosure and ensuring a level playing field. Whispering about non-public information to potential investors is every bit as illegal as whispering about non-public information to selected analysts.

     

    Retail investors are invariably worried that somebody has better access to information than they do. It rarely happens in the real world because the cost of getting caught is so very high.
    26 Mar 2013, 01:59 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    But when it comes to potential "strategic partners," e.g., someone to build, market, and even customer finance PowerCubes for us, might that get "real" pricing (including volume pricing discounts) information which isn't publicly disclosed because EVERY customer signs an NDA?

     

    in others words, maybe some of us are confused about what a "disclosure" is in the SEC's eyes (should they be open)?
    26 Mar 2013, 02:35 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    When you get into hybrid relationships that are part business cooperation and part ownership the "reasonable disclosure" lines get fuzzier.

     

    The more information a party has, particularly if it's non-public information, the greater the risk of trading on that information.

     

    People go to jail for trying to profit in the market from non-public information.
    26 Mar 2013, 02:58 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    Putting aside the issue of whether a party that has material, non-public info trades on it, and focusing on disclosure only, can and do private placement stock buyers get such info?
    26 Mar 2013, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    Not if the company has good legal counsel.
    26 Mar 2013, 04:04 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    Very interesting. Thanks.

     

    Compared to ancient history, that eliminates a major benefit to the purchasers of private placements. I assume pricing has long ago adjusted downward as a consequence, all other things being the same. But of course they can vary from deal to deal and over time as the mkt adjusts to all the various factors that influence it.

     

    Maybe lock-up periods have shortened or the supply has decreased, to compensate. Or every purchaser gets a cinnamon roll and some Bailey's, i.e., better swag. But not to exceed $50.
    26 Mar 2013, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    Over the course of my career the minimum holding period on private deals has gone from two years to six months and most reporting requirements have been eliminated for non-affiliates. If an offering includes registration rights, the lock-up period is measured in days or weeks for a company like Axion can use Form S-3.

     

    The basic challenges haven't changed much because the number one goal of new investors is still ensuring that they don't lose money. There isn't much if any difference in the quality or content of the information provided, but there's a whole lot of comfort from having an investment banker do a complete due diligence review on behalf of the new investors, as opposed to street investors doing their own homework.
    26 Mar 2013, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • pascquale
    , contributor
    Comments (94) | Send Message
     
    APH,
    seems to me that we ought to have something in the header from year end, perhaps something about:

     

    "We left the designation 'development stage company' in the dust in 2012 and there's no slowdown in sight."

     

    ...
    26 Mar 2013, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (430) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Good suggestion. I took a piece from the press release and added it in. Thanks.
    26 Mar 2013, 03:09 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    link to the Conf Call transcript in the header?
    26 Mar 2013, 03:13 PM Reply Like
  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (430) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Alright, now you guys are pushing it :-) Another good suggestion...but don't get any further ideas.
    26 Mar 2013, 04:10 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Net Zero Office Complex? Maybe. Uses Bloom Energy Mystery Fuel Cells. Various reviews:

     

    original (12/12/12) PR: http://bit.ly/10LtkuM

     

    more details, and a building pic

     

    USA’s largest “carbon neutral” office set for San Diego

     

    Building's status depends on careful accounting of natural gas sources.

     

    by James Holloway - Jan 10 2013

     

    http://ars.to/106lGJ7

     

    (51 comments!)

     

    this week's note; also widens the discussion:

     

    Net Zero Energy: Making Green Look Passé
    Mar. 25, 2013

     

    http://bit.ly/10LtiDb Carr
    26 Mar 2013, 03:03 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Last link should be:

     

    http://bit.ly/WU9Hzm

     

    Author is Robert Carr
    26 Mar 2013, 03:42 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Hey, 2 governments beats just one ... Ecoult keeps busy. Hope they got that currency exchange thing all figured out.

     

    Australian Government Investment Supports Big Thinking on Small-scale Energy Storage

     

    http://bit.ly/YGmsen

     

    “We are now in the process of extending our products and solutions from MW-scale to commercial and residential applications. Our objective is to reduce the cost of energy storage and boost the competitiveness of small-scale renewable energy sources such as roof-top solar panels"
    26 Mar 2013, 03:26 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Yep.

     

    "Ecoult CEO John Wood said the ARENA grant was a strong vote of confidence in the Australian-invented technology."
    26 Mar 2013, 03:30 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2097) | Send Message
     
    WTB,
    Thanks for the link. Nice to see it is an East Penn division.

     

    "The pilot project will extend the successful collaboration between Ecoult, its US-based parent company East Penn Manufacturing and the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO)."
    26 Mar 2013, 03:37 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Solving the Next Grid Challenge: Volatility

     

    " Historically, electrical current flows from central generators across the transmission grid to distribution circuits and ultimately serves load at the end customer site. Grid assets are built to accommodate peak customer load and to manage the volatility in demand at each level of the grid. The system was not built to manage uncontrolled two-way traffic safely or to import significant generation at distribution voltages.

     

    Further, PV output is highly volatile, capable of changing output by over 80 percent within a few seconds."

     

    http://bit.ly/XaiNtc
    26 Mar 2013, 03:38 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    And we wonder what's taking BMW so long ...

     

    Mazda6 – 15,000 units recalled over electrical issue

     

    http://bit.ly/YdAd7O

     

    "The recall will eliminate a potential fault with a component in the DC/DC convertor that is located under the front passenger seat. The DC/DC converter is part of the car’s i-ELOOP brake energy recuperation system, which uses a capacitor to power the vehicle’s electrical components."

     

    Toasty!
    26 Mar 2013, 05:14 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Looks like TD Bank beat PNC to the Net-Zero punch, and they have 1 year data to prove it:

     

    TD Bank Announces Energy-Saving Monitoring Data For Net-Zero Store

     

    TD reports that the first net-zero bank built in the United States is exceeding expectations according to first-year monitoring data.

     

    http://prn.to/YdB0Wh
    26 Mar 2013, 05:22 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    PR from the opening a year ago; video:

     

    http://prn.to/WUW1UF
    26 Mar 2013, 10:40 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    SmartStart, Kick Start and Locomotive Battery Saver System. Offerings for the rail industry.

     

    http://bit.ly/13uZe2z
    26 Mar 2013, 07:31 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2105) | Send Message
     
    Can Signal Processing Stop Battery Fires?

     

    http://bit.ly/13uZiPM

     

    <<Sensing systems may, in fact, be able to detect bad batteries that have already passed factory tests. These parts suffer from an internal short circuit, a defect that is difficult to identify. As a private consultant to lithium-ion battery manufacturers and device makers that use those batteries, Brian Barnett, vice president of the Lexington, Mass.–based technology-development company TIAX, has examined many case studies of lithium-ion problems. “Frequently, the level of destruction was too great to determine what transpired,” he says. “However, when you could find a cause, overwhelmingly we discovered proof that there had been a foreign metal particle that had got into the cell.” What was particularly worrisome was that in “a couple hundred incidents, it showed that none of them occurred in the first three months,” he says. Many internal short circuits, in other words, cannot be detected at the factory.

     

    The contaminants were often tiny shards of crimped, scraped, or flaked metal of various sizes that could be as small as tens of micrometers, Barnett says. Battery manufacturers already have many tricks—including using strong magnets and shrouded cutting areas—to keep contaminants out of battery assemblies. But, he says, the persistence of rare but catastrophic battery fires from cells made at even the best lithium-ion factories in the world suggests that some baseline level of contamination exists—and has to be rooted out in other ways.>>
    26 Mar 2013, 07:32 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    I think we've made a mistake.
    Hard to believe with all the brain power her but I think so.

     

    From the 10K
    "Our upgrade and replacement of battery manufacturing equipment, begun in 2010, was completed in 2011 and included the installation of a new automatic paste mixer and a fixed orifice pasting line that will improve the quality and dimensional tolerances of battery plates."

     

    They had the machine and it was up and running in 2011. Oops.

     

    So what exactly did TG say?
    Well actually he said a lot It's broken into at least three pieces.
    I think this is the most important part.

     

    "So, at that point in time, not having a lot of money to burn, we took a different tact and we brought others in house to try to work with this. We tried to employ some expertise, and I'm getting pretty deep into the story here, but I'm doing so because I think it's important to understand how this thing really came about. And we tried all kinds of methods and the methods did not bear fruit.But we kept at it and we've got some very skilled engineers in-house here and we stayed with it and we began to improve it slowly, still not to production stage, and then we had the final step and the final epiphany in a matter of weeks, not two or three weeks but I mean certainly it wasn't a matter of months. And then once up and running, and once producing product, then we went – rather than try to make changes to the processes, we went along, we then went back and tweaked the process to get more out of various components of the process, and that's where the significant increase in capacity came in just the last few weeks."

     

    My take:
    The machinery has been around for a while, it just wasn't producing to their standards until recently, I expect since the last cc in Nov.
    Until then they were working by hand.
    I would not be surprised to find out the inventory build was of the functioning line.
    Since then capacity has increased significantly.
    26 Mar 2013, 08:18 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3332) | Send Message
     
    froggey, I believe the paste mixing machine is relevant only to positive electrodes and/or the flooded lines.... Others hopefully will weigh in, but I'm fairly confident it doesn't have anything to do with the carbon sheeting production...
    26 Mar 2013, 08:32 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    The pasting equipment is for lead-based electrodes which use lead-based pastes on lead grids, not carbon electrode assemblies.
    26 Mar 2013, 08:56 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3332) | Send Message
     
    Okay, thanks John, so just for completeness and to be sure... the pasting equipment is for negative (the lead, vice lead-oxide) electrodes, which are only found in conventional flooded and AGM batteries, *not* PbC...
    26 Mar 2013, 08:59 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    OK sorry guys that brings us to here.
    which I didn't understand, obviously, before.
    From the CC.

     

    "We improved the proprietary carbon electrode, we improved raw material sources, we improved production processes, we automated, and then launched a fully robotic full carbon electrode production line. We recently commissioned a continuous roll process carbon sheeting line. Along the way, we installed quality controls for the lines and we will continue to work these quality controls as we seek to make a better product with better cost-containment through economics of scale and through improved processes, and those steps forward will come about through the hard work of our dedicated team."

     

    Instead of a machine it's a line.

     

    I'm a bit confused that it was commissioned as I thought it was done in house?
    26 Mar 2013, 09:48 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >froggey77 ... Commissioned (defined); To put (a machine or production process line in this case) into active service.

     

    The who, where and how is immaterial in this context.
    26 Mar 2013, 09:59 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1781) | Send Message
     
    Froggey77,
    In this case I think what TG means by "commissioned" is that they recently finished building the continuous roll process sheeting line (in house) and now have it up and running. In other words, commissioned means they have put it into use.
    Also, you have to think about this as not just one step. John can correct me, but basically they start with a mixture of carbon and binder that they've mixed up in their super secret mixing section of the plant. This then goes into a processing line where it is rolled out and cut into predetermined forms for use in the negative electrode assemblies. You have to remember that they were doing the rolling and cutting by hand in the past. So now they have a system that does both of those automatically, thus cutting down on a lot of man hours of work in the rolling process, and cutting down on carbon sheet waste by again not having it cut by hand, (probably from large sheet), but instead by an automated system where the sheets are probably just slightly larger than the final form and then just trimmed by an automated trimmer. At least that would be my best guess without seeing the machinery.
    26 Mar 2013, 10:26 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    Thanks again.
    I have no manufacturing background and it shows on occasion.
    27 Mar 2013, 09:52 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2128) | Send Message
     
    Hey there,
    Been busy for a couple of days so haven't had much time to comment on the CC. I have only read the transcript. It is interesting that some believe the tone is more telling than the words spoken. Interesting observation.

     

    I liked this quote from Trego.
    " I want to point out that the increase in product costs as a percentage of product sales, to 92.5% in 2012 from 89.1% in 2011, was due to changes in product mix and the anticipated higher cost resulting from the planned sale of PbC products for two different pilot project PbC applications with two different customers."

     

    When I apply Trego's numbers to the income statement I show a large increase in PbC sales over and above the NS contract. Am I reading this correctly? Who is the mystery PbC buyer?

     

    Am I missing something or is something amiss? It could be either way.
    26 Mar 2013, 08:44 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3332) | Send Message
     
    Futurist, It's not that I would say that the tone is more telling, but it certainly adds a lot of contextual and connotative information that a straight reading might miss. Inflections, emphasis, pauses and forcefulness are all useful clues. Not to overstate it, but bottom line for me, TG didn't sound like any kind of hounded man or one running scared from anything. He sounded more like the guy who realizes the long awaited time is coming near at hand...that the thick of it is beginning... and that the elephant he's been trying to ride and keep on task is starting to give signs of acting tigerish...
    26 Mar 2013, 08:56 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1417) | Send Message
     
    As my Grand Mom used to say in a thick yiddish accent, "From your mouth to God's ear".
    26 Mar 2013, 09:15 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Futurist> " the planned sale of PbC products for two different pilot project PbC applications with two different customers."

     

    I call that a hell of a good find. Probably more sales significance in that statement than anything else said during the CC. Very good work Futurist.
    26 Mar 2013, 09:58 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    Futurist
    NSC had a second order Much smaller. IIRC $17K
    Speculation it was for a crane or a loader for truck sized boxes onto ships. Does that get you there?
    26 Mar 2013, 10:00 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3932) | Send Message
     
    "anticipated higher cost resulting from the planned sale of PbC products for two different pilot project PbC applications with two different customers."

     

    Bang ... If sales had actually occurred I would agree the statement had sales significance. But, those costs referred to 2012, awfully close to three months ago and no sales announced to date.
    26 Mar 2013, 11:27 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Got an explanation for the huge year-end PbC inventory when cash is tight?
    26 Mar 2013, 11:46 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1506) | Send Message
     
    ".....resulting from the planned sale of PbC products for two different pilot project PbC applications with two different customers."

     

    Nice catch Futurist.
    This somehow past me by during the CC, maybe can estimate the size of the potential sale from the additional information that inventory of PbC is now 2/3 (finished??) inventory, where it was 1/3 the previous period. In the middle of work, so can't do the calculation. I think the number of batteries was already calculated in Concentrator 220 or 221. I'm hoping these are multi PC sales and not minicubes.
    27 Mar 2013, 01:09 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (966) | Send Message
     
    until the order is filled it is unlikely to be announced. we are likely seeing an order (or more) ready to deliver.
    27 Mar 2013, 02:01 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    Futurist> My calculated breakdown on Q4 revenue was $2.568 million in flooded and $521,000 in PbC.
    27 Mar 2013, 07:04 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2128) | Send Message
     
    JP,
    80% of the product sales come from one customer (flooded lead acid). Where is the other 2 million dollars of sale coming from?
    Your estimate makes sense because we know they sold $475,000 to NS and about $20,000 to ePower. Is our specialty battery business that strong?
    27 Mar 2013, 07:22 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    My spreadsheet that tracks the revenue ramp and working capital composition over the last two years is here:

     

    http://bit.ly/ZY1Twr

     

    I took the revenue split for each quarter from the 10-Q disclosure about principal customer sales and feel pretty comfortable that the quarterly values are accurate.

     

    Given what we know about Q4 sales to NS and ePower, I tend to think that specialty battery sales run about $250,000 per quarter and Axion's been quietly selling lots of PbC batteries for testing and validation programs.
    27 Mar 2013, 08:07 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3932) | Send Message
     
    "Got an explanation for the huge year-end PbC inventory when cash is tight? "

     

    Less than perfect foresight. Question is, Did Axion have signed contracts in hand as it did with the NSC purchase order it held for eight months before shipping?
    27 Mar 2013, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    Thanks JP for the spreadsheet. Interesting that Q2 2012's PbC and Other sales were easily the highest of the year. Since "revenue is recognized when product is shipped to the customer", this is not due to the NS 999 batteries. And if you back out the Q4 2012 NS 999 batteries and your $250k estimate for specialty, PbC sales are up a bit from Q3. But both Q3 and Q4's PbC sales are down a lot from Q1 and Q2. I'm thinking the specialty battery sales fluctuate a lot, on percentage terms, Q by Q, so it's hard to say, in any given quarter, what PbC sales were.
    27 Mar 2013, 10:06 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    OT This Chinese firm figured out a way to keep up with Axion's PbC cost reduction success on the negative electrode. Also the first to successfully utilize Si in their cathode material.

     

    http://bit.ly/ZpcwFi
    26 Mar 2013, 09:17 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2097) | Send Message
     
    ii,
    Cool, break out the beach towel, umbrella and surfboard. :-)
    26 Mar 2013, 09:43 PM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (191) | Send Message
     
    They even have an address. Guest next time in Shenzhen, Which company I would definitely pay a visit and buy some sand bags from.....
    27 Mar 2013, 07:00 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Very funny guys.

     

    It's amazing how creative some people can be to "make a buck". People are probably buying a few of these thinking they will not last long and the output is probably lower than spec. But it's so darn cheap I can't go wrong. Well, Surf's up!
    27 Mar 2013, 09:26 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Color me a bit of an optimist for a change because of the large PbC inventory. No one in their right mind when cash flow is tight puts that much money into product inventory unless you have a pressing need that says it simply has to be done! Hell, I might even buy a very small amount of shares tomorrow for the hell of it. The paint does seem to be drying a little faster.
    26 Mar 2013, 10:21 PM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (843) | Send Message
     
    Hi Bang, nice to hear our optimism. The following part of the transcript seems to fit your post:
    .........................

     

    Okay, what can you tell us about the unusually high finished goods inventory of $1.677 million at year-end?

     

    This is Chuck speaking. Actually that's a good question, and I appreciate you opening the comment on our inventory composition at the end of 2012 compared to the end of 2011. We have worked very hard this year not only to spend our cash wisely but also to rebalance our inventory to PREPARE IT FOR THE STRONG GROWTH that we anticipate going forward in PbC products.
    .........................

     

    Speaking of tone, I appreciated hearing Chuck's enthusiasm when answering this question. He just didn't seem to answer as a CFO who was concerned about securing the upcoming financing. Which helped alleviate some of my own lingering concerns.
    27 Mar 2013, 12:43 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    Wayne, especially considering that Chuck has been the most conservative voice on these calls. For example, during the November one, TG said, "...and my CFO right now is ready to strangle me because he doesn't like to promise numbers and talk about that sort of thing..."
    27 Mar 2013, 09:24 AM Reply Like
  • tonys23
    , contributor
    Comments (94) | Send Message
     
    The paint at ZBB seems to be drying even faster these days. Tough to figure that one .... They put out PR after PR and little happens, then over 6mm shares trade in a couple of days raising the pps by about 25% .... And nary a peep out of anyone! The trading lines of AXPW and ZBB seem eerily similar too, with ours lagging slightly behind.
    26 Mar 2013, 10:31 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (785) | Send Message
     
    Hi everybody.

     

    I finished of reading the CC and comments, I have to say this:

     

    Excellent and good news:

     

    -.Axion moving out of the 'development stage company' status into real commercialization.
    -.Power Cube: The huge increase in quotation requests we have been receiving for projects in the U.S. and for projects in many countries outside of the U.S.
    -.We expect 2013 will be a very good year for the residential energy HUB.
    -.New Market: "Larger trucks": trucks employed in fleets of various sizes and for various uses. This is a natural application for the PbC battery.
    -.We installed advanced quality control that did not exist in the past.
    -.We improved the proprietary carbon electrode, we improved raw material sources, we improved production processes, we automated, and then launched a fully robotic full carbon electrode production line. We recently commissioned a continuous roll process carbon sheeting line.
    -.We have second quarter plans to improve our supply chain processes, especially as we look to go beyond the domestic market.

     

    Now, We have a full factory manufactures AGM batteries and a complete and automated factory manufactures PbC electrodes. AXION POWER is ready to produce PbC batteries.

     

    I'm confused and I do not have clear the theme APU. It is o not a PbC application?

     

    Have a good night-Carlos
    26 Mar 2013, 10:41 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >carlos ... Sí, la Unidad Auxiliara del Poder es una aplicación de PbC y es separado de la Comienzo/Parada.
    26 Mar 2013, 10:55 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (785) | Send Message
     
    HI DRich:

     

    Muchas gracias, muy bien su español.
    Saludos-Carlos
    27 Mar 2013, 04:02 AM Reply Like
  • alejotum
    , contributor
    Comments (16) | Send Message
     
    ...and (ALL) INC acquired properties paid in full. NO DEBT!
    http://on.fb.me/13wEszJ
    27 Mar 2013, 08:37 AM Reply Like
  • alejotum
    , contributor
    Comments (16) | Send Message
     
    Can they apply any of the so called ( Disrupted Tech) here.....I believe half way completed. It will be turn-over to INC Jan 2014 for there 100 years Anniversary. A 6 mos preparation before July 27, 2014...am excited and I will be there. Here's some link and update.
    http://bit.ly/SFiDpk
    http://bit.ly/ZpGOYu
    27 Mar 2013, 08:37 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    has anyone considered the implications of $1.677MM inventory in finished goods if it's all batteries, rather than electrodes?

     

    Assuming $400/battery, we're looking at ~2,767 batteries.

     

    That causes several thoughts: 1) where the hell do we store them all while waiting (recalling Maya's count of battery cases from a few years back); 2) we have a couple, or more, really, really decent sized orders about to issue from ... grid operators, NSC, ...(?) or 3) FG includes some electrodes ready to push into the production line when an order hits.

     

    I;m thinking a combination of 2 and 3 is most likely. So the battery count should be much less than we might imply.

     

    BTW, is FG valued at sale prices or cost?

     

    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 08:56 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    Electrode assemblies would not be classified as finished goods unless there was an agreement in place to sell them to another battery manufacturer. Absent such an agreement, they would be classified as work in process – finished components that are awaiting assembly into marketable products.
    27 Mar 2013, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    HTL:

     

    "Inventory is recorded at the lower of cost or market value, and adjusted as appropriate for changes in valuation and obsolescence. Adjustments to the valuation and obsolescence reserves are made after analyzing market conditions, current and projected sales activity, inventory costs and composition to determine appropriate reserve levels."

     

    So mark it up to get the sales value--guess your own gross margin. But may contain some electronics or even a whole PC although I doubt much they would have gone that far with such little cash remaining. I'm guessing no electrodes, though, because as far as we know, Axion doesn't sell electrodes by themselves yet.
    27 Mar 2013, 09:13 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    Thanks John!

     

    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 10:10 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    Thanks MrI!

     

    I suspected market value (= sell price for now) after I asked because I dimly remembered things in a past life getting marked down during annual inventory - some to zero and some to scrap value, etc.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2167) | Send Message
     
    Here's another take on the inventory growth. Let's say there is an NDA agreement with a battery manufacturer (Exide, East Penn?) to make PbCs in volume for automotive OEM business. In this case, electrodes from the new sheeting line would be considered finished goods.
    27 Mar 2013, 10:58 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Rick! That was my original thought that made me think of the electrodes as possible FG inventory. However, I think a contract of that nature would be a material event, especially if the $ value was large, and wouldn't that mandate disclosure, making an NDA not possible?

     

    ISTM they wouldn't have to name the battery co. though.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4600) | Send Message
     
    HTL, that is correct...but he doesn't have to name it until they are shipped or paid.
    27 Mar 2013, 11:57 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4600) | Send Message
     
    HTL, I almost bet you that the sale and capital raise announcements come almost simultaneous.
    That inventory build and the carbon sheeting roll was the biggest positives on the call. I don't pay much attn. to the other bs, but these were huge.
    IMO, that's what is supporting the stock pps
    27 Mar 2013, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    HTL, I'm with you and LT on your final thought. Often automotive will allow a generic announcement that a large contract has been awarded giving some detail without disclosing the party doing the buying. This is done to allow the suppler to cover the material event aspect without the automotive concern losing some of the anonymity they feel gives them market advantage. Yes often there is large suspicion of who the customer is anyway.

     

    As for Axion getting and starting to ramp for a contract without our knowing. It would have to be a pretty small auto contract. The level of activity required over an extended period of time would make a little plant in PA look like someone threw too much fissile material together. Hard to hide.
    27 Mar 2013, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2167) | Send Message
     
    HTL, I'll defer to JP, but I would think an NDA could keep a well-written order confidential (non-public, non-material) until there is pre-payment, shipment, or certain third party involvement.

     

    "Well written" (by the purchaser) perhaps does not have penalty clause for cancellation, or otherwise does not meet the standards of "material event".
    27 Mar 2013, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • MitchS
    , contributor
    Comments (47) | Send Message
     
    LT,
    The announcements better be simultaneous, or maybe first sales announcement, then cap raise a few days later to make it look as though the investors didn't have any inside information of the impending sale, as discussed above.

     

    If this doesn't happen, then I see no reason for the financing terms to be anything but incredibly painful for us long term holders.

     

    Mitch
    27 Mar 2013, 12:30 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1419) | Send Message
     
    The last financing was 10% to the 40 day VWAP. It is unimaginable to be worst than that, given the new leads Axion has plus its new investment bank helping. It's hardly something to stress over. In fact, should the financing go off tomorrow on these terms, it'd actually be at a higher price than the share price today!

     

    Without using a VWAP, but a proper valuation, I imagine the selling price to be even higher.
    27 Mar 2013, 12:37 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    Ranma: You're right. As of a couple days ago, the closing VWAP was much higher than where we are ATM. 10% off that would be right around $0.288.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 12:56 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Ranma, I'd also add one other aspect to this conversation. Recently we've seen some articles suggesting that there has been a level of financial rotation from solar and wind generation into storage / smart grid solutions. So while there is a risk of some discount to market via some arranged math model there is also opportunity for someone wishing a sizable position to step in. I don't think anyone here is going to say the risk has gone up today vs before last years capital raise.
    27 Mar 2013, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1419) | Send Message
     
    There, we found our new support price, heh heh....

     

    Also, we overstress the importance of shares out there when it comes to appreciation of the stock price. We should remember - prices are set at the margins. That means, when Axion finally wins that big contract and loads of buyers come in, there will be few newcomers who have any idea of how to value the company pushing the stock up on day to day volume. They will buy as long as it keeps going up. That's how you get companies with 50x+ P/E or 50x+ book value.
    27 Mar 2013, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >Ranma ... Hell, I'll be happy to see Axion with a 1x PE.
    27 Mar 2013, 01:39 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    iinde---great pt about intra-sector rotation from gen to storage. That's a biggie, IMO.

     

    Also, 'investment bank' and 'strategic investor' are not incompatible. The first might be helping to find the latter. That would be my guess.
    27 Mar 2013, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3932) | Send Message
     
    I've been wondering if Axion (or its' investment banker) has explored potential financing from a business development company.
    27 Mar 2013, 07:00 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >D-inv ... If the BOD has been unwilling to take a loan from a bank there is no reason for them to take a bridge. Selling equity is the best way forward if they can't finance it out of pocket.
    27 Mar 2013, 07:06 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3932) | Send Message
     
    Understood, DR. OTOH, some BCDs invest in equities as well as debt.
    27 Mar 2013, 07:20 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >D-inv ... I think way too much time is spent trying to finesse the mechanics of a capital raise because there is only one choice available. If any entity wants to buy equity that, to me, is the same as any other investor because the only offering is common stock like anyone else. Terms & conditions may or may not go along with a significant block purchase. I'm hoping (not a good thing) for stability which is my biggest concern. In lieu of that, the amount is large enough to not have to endure another year of hand wringing, because I don't see where self sustaining cashflow is going to come from. Although, I am getting a little curious when this nuisance will be pulled off.
    27 Mar 2013, 08:44 PM Reply Like
  • BugEYE
    , contributor
    Comments (191) | Send Message
     
    Mr I
    “Also, 'investment bank' and 'strategic investor' are not incompatible. The first might be helping to find the latter. That would be my guess.”

     

    My guess is investment bank is hired by strategic investors to do DD work before closing a deal.
    28 Mar 2013, 12:28 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1419) | Send Message
     
    BugEYE, I share your view. It would seem odd to me that TG would sound so confident if this was not the case. Not only that, if they were looking for purely financial investors, why hire a new investment bank? Those guys don't work for cheap - Axion would not spend that last bit of cash for a chance at a higher share offering. So the bank must have been hired by another party. I think you made a key connection there.
    28 Mar 2013, 12:57 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4600) | Send Message
     
    Boosting the sales force was probably a stipulation for the financing too.
    28 Mar 2013, 03:21 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Mr, I, I've been hoping the sector rotation would be to our advantage. Plus, with the wind direction changing and bringing some fresh reality, maybe we can be seen by potential investors as some of the Li fog has dissipated.
    28 Mar 2013, 11:35 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    iinde, yeah, seen the search for survivors that will be thrivers begin after other bubbles have burst, and I think and hope we're seeing it start here, too.
    28 Mar 2013, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    03/26/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (up later).
    # Trds: 33, MinTrSz: 100, MaxTrSz: 10000, Vol 89377, AvTrSz: 2708
    Min. Pr: 0.2800, Max Pr: 0.2950, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2875
    # Buys, Shares: 19 48693, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2915
    # Sells, Shares: 14 40684, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2827
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1.20:1 (54.5% “buys”), DlyShts 5977 (06.69%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 14.69%

     

    In summary, I believe we are seeing signs of entering short-term consolidation. Right now, buyers and sellers seem well-balanced, with sellers being less aggressive on the pricing and hitting the bids, and buyers seemingly willing to take a little more risk at these price levels. I think both sides of the market are assessing the likelihood of big negative moves as unlikely and feel that appreciation in a reasonable time-frame seems more likely.

     

    The bids action today was generally a very positive one – stayed >= $0.28 all day and had several excursions into the $0.29 area. The asks were similar, with bids >= $0.29 all day. When you combine this with the big improvement in the buy:sell, you can see a lot of bullish sentiment surfacing.

     

    This also answers my concern about exhaustion of sellers at the price level – it seems that those willing to release shares down in the $0.27 range have been indeed exhausted while the buyers have not been exhausted at these slightly higher prices and do have some powder to deploy. A snapshot of recent VWAPs might be useful here.

     

    $0.3161, $0.3062, $0.2945, $, $0.2913, $0.2907, $0.2833, $0.2780, $0.2835, $0.2819, $0.2813, $0.2850 and $0.2875 today.

     

    Unfortunately, volume was very weak here – not what we'd like to see on price rising – so we need to temper our bullish assessment a bit until volume supports the bullishness.

     

    This leads to thinking we are entering a short-term consolidation ATM. Traditional TA seems to support that as we see price spread narrowing with a lower high and higher low on reduced volume.

     

    On a change in trend this low volume would be common as folks await confirmation that a change has come – consolidation likely in progress. This supported by converging Bollinger limits, now $0.2662 and $0.3213, and our mid-point is ~$0.2938. Additionally, all the oscillators I watch showed small improvement and all are pretty much at neutral readings. Most are showing signs of continued rising, but I expect this to taper off if we remain in consolidation.

     

    We also have a “northern doji” candlestick, typically thought to be a bearish reversal indicator. But Bulkowski notes that 51% of the time it acts as a continuation. The uptrend is a very short one, thus far, so I don't know just how much significance should be given to this candlestick. Add in that it's really an almost random action following this ... Regardless, it's a short-term indicator of indecision, another consolidation indicator.

     

    Last, the MACD histogram also supports a consolidation view as it continues to show improvement. It's still in negative territory, but not by much and should move to neutral in just a few days.

     

    On a decidedly concerning issue, that darn 50-day SMA, $0.3154, is accelerating downward much faster than the 200-day, $0.3077, and will start going parabolic down in three days unless some price movement up, to a substantial degree, is seen. The risk, of course, is that a “death cross” will occur soon and some folks may respond to that. Unfortunately, if I'm assessing things correctly, we will be continuing to consolidate, which means no substantial price rise is likely. Even if I'm off, we'll encounter resistance at $0.30, which would likely prevent the degree of appreciation that is needed. That resistance might be weaker now, due to both a reduction of sellers left at that level and the effect of the quarterly results report.

     

    On my experimental charts stuff, we see the average trade size has dropped below what I consider normal retail range – more consolidation suggestion. As mentioned, the buy:sell did move back into a normal range, but it is neutral ATM at that near-50% reading. Volume is below all the averages again.

     

    My original experimental inflection point calculations did begin to recover, as I suggested was possible, near-term. We're now in a waiting mode again as the patterns develop. My newer version, which you may recall reacted in a less dramatic fashion by just “flattening” some, has also begun to make small moves towards its prior trend, which was strengthening. In terms of short-term results, it seems this one more accurately predicted the price action, being “flattish”, than the original did.

     

    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.
    27 Mar 2013, 08:57 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (797) | Send Message
     
    HTL

     

    Thanks for your report, as always I do appreciate it!

     

    I just keep wondering who is putting the lid on the price with the continuous selling pressure? What motivation is there to sell at this stage in the game with the prospects for 2013 that many of us believe are out there for growth in PbC sales! This is not a stock that I would want to short term trade, there are many out there with better trading characteristics. If the funding is pushing people to the pay window at this price point then that also baffles me as I personally don't have any concerns regarding funding with the prospects that Axion has been laying out.

     

    Just sitting here attempting to put some reasoning/motivation into the sellers activities, I am not forgetting the market makers??

     

    Just saying!
    27 Mar 2013, 01:11 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1419) | Send Message
     
    Judging by some comments, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the sellers were actually Axionistas. The daily volume is still well within retail range. Sure, now and then there are some suspicious large blocks, but not always. There is just too much fear out there, no doubt due to being overweight. I predict that as soon as the financing uncertainty is out of the way, no matter the terms, the stock will start going up. Personally I am still long now because I don't think the terms will be that bad. Good even. Nor do I think I can catch the 5 minute window to buy shares after the financing, before bargain hunters snatch them up. All for a 10% difference!
    27 Mar 2013, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    RBrun: The TFH view is that the flippers from last year are cleaning out their stock and will load up on new shares when APXW is forced to use the same crew as last year.

     

    I've suspected for a while that MMs are playing a little looser with the stock than in the past. This *could* be supported by the very low daily short sales. But there are also mechanical aspects of the trading platforms that could have changed (e.g. every broker and his brother now having an OTC trading desk registered as an MM?) which could account for that - no way to know (yet?) if that's the case.

     

    Always possible that some of the "silent majority" have gotten frightened out of their wits.

     

    Always possible that balancing books to position for EOQ accounting could be in play too.

     

    Depending on what appears 4/1, we might have a clue, at least, that this last *might* have been in play.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 01:22 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (797) | Send Message
     
    Thanks HTL
    27 Mar 2013, 01:33 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Look, when your company has a pretty short term going concern notice featured prominently in your communications, there are going to be sellers. I suspect (no data to back this up) selling first and asking questions later on such statistically is the right thing to do.

     

    I realize we've had one for a while, but cutting it down to a month is pushing the faith too far for some I suspect.

     

    As Bang has suggested, you can always buy back in and still have a real nice/profitable ride. You won't get to claim you were the smartest guy in the room, but you won't be the dumbest either.

     

    See "your first loss is the best one," "accounting issues = sell" (not saying we have this problem), etc.

     

    There are maxims, that some people live to fight another day by observing.

     

    Not to mention wives/spouses ... you gonna sell some, or are we getting divorced (or at the least sleeping in separate rooms for a while?)
    27 Mar 2013, 01:34 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    WTB:
    But the selling presuure began long before the Q reporting. So the last few days could be a result of the going concern issues. We have to employ strong TFH activity to account for the rest of it! ;-))

     

    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 02:06 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1140) | Send Message
     
    Having accumulated more than just "a few shares" of Axion (mostly below .30c over a long period of time), I've noticed that any larger type buy orders (i.e 50k and up) have been met with selling.... in very short order

     

    Somebody posted above that it seems mostly retail... well, yes... it's retail until the BID gets hammered... I've watched it over and over for several months. I cannot prove it, but my sixth sense tells me someone has enough shares (*still*) to hit the bid at their convenience... and I don't think it's "retail" doing it.

     

    Just my two cents... going back to sleep now... bye bye
    27 Mar 2013, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (337) | Send Message
     
    Unfortunately my schedule did not allow me to listen in on the live CC. However I have now listened twice and made some notes

     

    I think the positives and negatives shared in the APC capture the essence of where we all sit. Hopeful but still very much in managements hands. At the same time as we look more closely at comments some very positive threads are developing consistent with what I believe is the reality. While slow - this puppy is putting on the dance shoes

     

    In retrospect I wish we had asked TG for more perspective on all those RFP's he talked repeatedly of

     

    There are RFP's that produce revenue in a few months and ones that produce revenue in a few years. Some produce cash and some mean further investments need to be made to prove a concept and a market

     

    TG is coy with what he says - and often this is justified by contractual restrictions

     

    But surely he might have confirmed that they are screening the RFP's with focus on the low hanging fruit = Quick, profitable volumes.

     

    I wonder if there is some way for us to gain a better handle on the RFP's. Non specific questions on RFP's will not be subject to NDA's

     

    Does anyone have any thoughts on how we Axionistas might do some follow up and gain some answers from inside the walls on the broad potential in those RFP's; how they are prioritizing and screening them; and how close any might be in generating some revenues helpful to short term cash flow?

     

    As usual given Managements desire not to be bothered or held accountable I suspect answers will have to wait for announcements and results
    27 Mar 2013, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3932) | Send Message
     
    OT. http://bit.ly/YInN4o

     

    May be 15 - 20 years to commercialization, but might be much less if powers that B at DOD get behind production of fuel from power/industrial plant engine exhaust flues. ICE engines could be around for a very long time.
    27 Mar 2013, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4600) | Send Message
     
    10:52 AM Though sales of pure electric vehicles have been a disappointment for most automakers, the hybrid segment is showing strength. March is expected to see a record 48K units sold with some forecasts ranging as high as 60K. A fresh slate of offerings and lower prices is attracting new buyers. What to watch: Ford (F -0.8%) could make a big splash this year with the compact C-Max and Fusion hybrids priced right in the sweet spot for many consumers and EPA-certified mpg ratings a shade above competing models. Comment! [Consumer]
    27 Mar 2013, 10:56 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    New Technologies Boost Fuel Economy

     

    " New stop-start systems in development will add an electric “crawl” mode to extend the fuel savings in slow-moving traffic jams."

     

    http://bit.ly/10Qk8Fq
    27 Mar 2013, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    I'm not going to hold my breath for an electric crawl mode because that takes a hefty electric drive motor and automatically puts a car in a "mild hybrid" class. For example, GM's e-assist uses a 15 kW motor and doesn't offer crawl. You don't get to electric launch until you enter the "heavy hybrid" space with a Prius-class vehicle.
    27 Mar 2013, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • Keyboard
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    JP it seems you never had the pleasure of "starting" a manual transmission car while in unintentionally in gear. :-)

     

    Amazing what a little starter motor can do.
    27 Mar 2013, 02:06 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    John, Understood.

     

    This might however be an interesting and useful feature with a lower voltage system in city cars. I have to wonder what some might be thinking about for a one or two MPH type crawl mode for things like micro cars. In New York they have 4 way stop intersections as an example. If you're at one of these with 4+ cars in front of you a feature like this that moves you slowly over 50 ft of stop and go would be a winner. Other needs considered of coarse.
    27 Mar 2013, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    Just add a hole in the floorboard like the Flintstones.
    27 Mar 2013, 03:37 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2105) | Send Message
     
    Are we back to Retromeanderthal jokes?

     

    The paint is beyond dry, now. Cracked and peeling and developing a rich patina.
    27 Mar 2013, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    Time for another coat! Anybody seen that Sawyer kid?
    27 Mar 2013, 04:27 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    JP: Last I heard he had passed a bucket of paint and a brush to an Axionista and was floating down a river somewhere with a stalk of grass between his teeth.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 04:36 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    HTL, Well the Axionista isn't going to spread it around right away for sure. Gotta look at it for awhile to determine if it's whitewash or hogwash. If it's hogwash the Axionista knows to add a little lithium to the batch. Can't do a brilliant application with hogwash if it doesn't have lithium. ;)
    27 Mar 2013, 05:12 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3332) | Send Message
     
    I would think a 15KW motor, (~20Hp) especially with the low-rpm torque characteristics generally inherent in electric motors, *should* be plenty enough to support crawling. That GM's e-assist doesn't offer crawl is not necessarily due to lack of motor muscle...
    27 Mar 2013, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Wiki re: GM's BAS hybrid. Indicates the storage system is at 36 V.

     

    http://bit.ly/11zayII
    27 Mar 2013, 05:27 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3332) | Send Message
     
    ah....sounds like the motor in question is mated to the engine directly, IE the motor can't "crawl" the car without cranking the engine at the same time...which kinda defeats the purpose of E-only crawl... so it's more the specific configuration they've chosen here and not the size/power of the motor per se...
    27 Mar 2013, 06:04 PM Reply Like
  • Al Marshall
    , contributor
    Comments (498) | Send Message
     
    As the driver of a hybrid car I think this would be a very helpful feature. It is especially useful for the inevitable compression of traffic that occurs when multiple cars are sitting at a stoplight. When a certain gap opens up in front of my car, I have a subconscious impulse to lift my foot off the brake to inch forward and close it. It takes concentration to resist this impulse. I also wonder what effect this has on the life of my car given that I likely have significantly more than one stop-start event per mile driven, maybe as many as five or ten. Note to self: Count stop/start events.
    27 Mar 2013, 09:58 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Some targets for mpg on the future world dream list.

     

    Peugeot releases Hybrid Air details

     

    http://bit.ly/10QnU1y
    27 Mar 2013, 01:29 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Well, that pic certainly does look "airy"

     

    http://amzn.to/YJ1aN4
    27 Mar 2013, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2097) | Send Message
     
    ii,
    Hydraulic accumulator, a big version of the brake accumulators? I don't know about the new ones, but the early (early 1990s) accumulators couldn't be transported by air freight as they would rupture above a certain altitude. I don't think I would be comfortable riding on a bomb, Dr. Strangelove. :-)
    27 Mar 2013, 10:34 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Silldazed, I have only used hydraulic accumulators in industrial hydraulic systems. These in effect were like air springs as hydraulic fluid doesn't really compress. You'd have a pressure vessel with a nitrogen charged portion with a piston in between. This was primarily used as a buffer in the hydraulic system to smooth out transients as end effectors were cycled.

     

    Pressure vessel technology has come a long way since the early 90's. I think they are using some form of carbon fiber now. What is selected would however depend on the application.
    30 Mar 2013, 06:04 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    Interesting article on when storage will be needed on the grid:

     

    http://bit.ly/YE2k2g
    27 Mar 2013, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1826) | Send Message
     
    Isn't that a false claim though?

     

    I don't recall the details but I had understood that Germany has agreements with neighbouring countries whereby the neighbours have to handle Germany's 'pollution' of renewal variability.

     

    D
    27 Mar 2013, 02:24 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1213) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Stefan

     

    "The more renewables, concludes the study, the less need for baseload power."

     

    I've seen the same argument elsewhere. The idea is to use nat gas peaker plants to fill in the gaps.
    27 Mar 2013, 03:36 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    D
    " I had understood that Germany has agreements with neighbouring countries whereby the neighbours have to handle Germany's 'pollution' of renewal variability."

     

    I believe that was true at one time but they have gotten so large some other countries have moved to block Germany and Baltic sea Wind-farms from from dumping on them.

     

    http://bloom.bg/QQq2AR

     

    <Renewable energy around the world is causing problems because unlike oil it can’t be stored, so when generated it must be consumed or risk causing a grid collapse. At times, the glut can be so great that utilities pay consumers to take the power and get rid of it.
    “Germany is aware of the problem, but there is not enough political will to solve the problem because it’s very costly,” Pavel Solc, Czech deputy minister of industry and trade, said in an interview. “So we’re forced to make one-sided defensive steps to prevent accidents and destruction.”
    The power grids in the former communist countries are “stretched to their limits” and face potential blackouts when output surges from wind turbines in northern Germany or on the Baltic Sea, according to Czech grid operator CEPS. The Czechs plan to install security switches near borders by year-end to disconnect from Europe’s biggest economy to avoid critical overload. >

     

    There was a time when Germany was sending electricity to Norway who would slowdown their hydro-generation and use the German energy for cheap then sell back at high prices when they needed it. I don't know what happened with this. The Germans and Dutch were talking about a bigger transmission line a couple of years ago. About a year ago I heard the transmission regulators were planning fines for the unplanned dumping. This should have been implemented about last summer, (I never heard if it actually happened)
    27 Mar 2013, 08:09 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    Anybody else having severe screen formatting problems? I reported mine already to support@seekingalpha.... along with snapshots.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    HTL, Mine is OK today but yesterday and for a couple of days before the screen was a mess. Overlays and things positioned where they shouldn't be.

     

    I'd not be nearly as helpful as you would be in this area so I generally wait for awhile and they, in more cases, resolve it. Probably thanks to people such as yourself! :))
    27 Mar 2013, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Htl ... I got no reply button, but yet, severe formatting problems on Chromium running a OpenSUSE variant
    27 Mar 2013, 02:30 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    My Seeking Alpha screen page is back to what is was like in Honduras, including the Reply box being abou the size of a return address lable. Further, I have to finagle my way onto the APCs. No Likes available, and I have to open a generic looking front page, then hit any old article that I care not to read, then I get that there are more comments on the APCs, but the APCs are also in a arcane format, without flagging new comments. Fortunately, I have other things to do, but at the very leastm this is irksome, and has happened before.

     

    P.S. If you Like this comment, I won't know it, until things get fixed ;-)
    27 Mar 2013, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    With the major DDOS attacks going on in Europe it's not surprising to see some blowback in more civilized climes like SA.
    27 Mar 2013, 03:21 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    JP: I suspect this DDOS attack wasn't the case today. It's similar to ones seen a couple times previously recently and in SA's e-mail response to my snapshots they said "... working to resolve this bug".

     

    I wouldn't be surprised if the (increasing?) number of 404, server not found and such messages over the last many months were some form of denial of service attack though.

     

    LoL! Or maybe it's just "pollution of the commons" by all those hand-held, band-width hogging "telephones" everybody has these days.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 05:32 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1419) | Send Message
     
    Likely the SA coders changed something on the site's CSS file (the part which styles the webpage). Probably changed a class name mistakenly, which caused the styling to not be applied to a broad group of elements. A small change caused it, but still, why would they fiddle with it during market hours when their readership is highest.
    27 Mar 2013, 06:39 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    EV Bus Smackdown! Proterra v. BYD

     

    Buy American Or Buy Chinese? It’s Not That Simple

     

    George Economides - Publisher March 25, 2013

     

    http://bit.ly/YJgV6T
    27 Mar 2013, 03:14 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Hmmm ... wonder if these guys might like to get in the Microgrid/Energy Storage biz ...

     

    Proterra Partners with Equipment Finance Provider to Boost Sales

     

    http://bit.ly/ZZGS4r

     

    Well ... here's what they say at
    http://bit.ly/ZZHpU7

     

    100% Financing and tax benefits

     

    With a strategic focus on the energy market, we make it easier for our vendor partners to increase sales while offering their customers solutions to reduce costs, improve efficiencies and achieve their energy goals.

     

    PV Solar
    Energy Efficiency
    27 Mar 2013, 03:25 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    And Proterra has added an in-house position to work with Key Finance ...

     

    Proterra Adds Commercial Sales Leader to Expand Non-Transit Agency Business

     

    March 27, 2013

     

    http://bit.ly/WWG0h6
    27 Mar 2013, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1213) | Send Message
     
    Speaking of electric buses, these 7 Montreal has ordered will use Zebra batteries from FIAMM. I was surprised to see anything other than a variant of lithium.
    http://bit.ly/WUmjX7
    27 Mar 2013, 04:03 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    The FIAMM Zebra (formerly MES-DEA) is used in a fleet of about 3,000 EVs and buses in Europe with hundreds of millions of miles of accumulated service. The battery was originally developed by Daimler for electric drive, but never caught hold in passenger cars. It's a great battery for the application and far safer than lithium.
    27 Mar 2013, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1213) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, John.

     

    Now I'm wanting to read up on the Zebra again. I know its the same battery GE is hawking but I did not realize it was in use in buses. Anyone who can point me to a source of info on this batteries use in vehicles is appreciated. Otherwise, I know how to google.
    27 Mar 2013, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    I visited them about three years ago and IIRC their biggest bus fleet was in Bologna Italy. If you search for – zebra & "MES-DEA" & Bus" you'll get a ton of useful links.
    27 Mar 2013, 05:00 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1213) | Send Message
     
    JP, gracias
    27 Mar 2013, 06:56 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    All: mine cleared up a few minutes ago. Clicking my feed or maybe a refresh and I think you'll be back to normal.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Mar 2013, 03:18 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    HTL: Nah. Buying that gallon of milk fixed everything ;-)

     

    Back to normal (which means more fretting about the cap raise).

     

    ####

     

    OT: My ESPN NCAA bracket is ranked at 97.3% against the field. Not bad. Pretty close to an A+, and yet...there are 223,914 better brackets out there. Hilarious.
    27 Mar 2013, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Russian roulette with two chambers loaded.

     

    Mitsubishi reports 2 battery problems, no recalls

     

    http://hrld.us/10R0rgF
    27 Mar 2013, 03:55 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    If GS Yuasa came calling with a big strategic partner offering, would we take it???!!!
    27 Mar 2013, 04:02 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    Absolutely! They may make finicky lithium-ion batteries (~3.3% of revenue) but their core business, like JCI's, is old dependable lead-acid.

     

    http://bit.ly/ZZQVqd
    http://bit.ly/ZZRj8a
    27 Mar 2013, 04:09 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (7607) | Send Message
     
    Strange, I thought they switched to Toshiba Scib?
    http://edmu.in/16iQhHi
    27 Mar 2013, 09:58 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    Jrp3
    It says both but that was June 2011

     

    a Mitsubishi Motors spokesman told AutoObserver that the automaker intends to employ both battery packs in its BEVs "at least for the near term."

     

    I don't know if now counts as near term.
    27 Mar 2013, 10:28 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Perhaps soon they will switch.

     

    Japanese battery maker Yuasa shares dive over car defects

     

    "No one was injured in the incidents which involved Mitsubishi's i-MiEV model, the world's first mass-produced electric car, and its Outlander PHEV, a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. Neither of the cars involved had yet been shipped to customers.
    The automaker has asked 4,000 vehicle owners to avoid charging their cars pending an investigation into the overheating batteries, made by a venture including Mitsubishi Motors, Mitsubishi Corp and GS Yuasa."

     

    http://bit.ly/10TqcwV;d_str=

     

    Well, At least they are not recalled I guess.

     

    Manufacturing defects are most often a reality in such a complex process. If they are very low the implications can be that it's OK and we can live with it. This stance however depends on the failure modes and the opportunity to install detection if necessary. If you have a failure mode such as fires on an airplane you better be able to detect your defects prior to the unit (s) being deployed. Or you better have enough redundancy in the application and assured containment and acknowledge it's a fact of life.
    28 Mar 2013, 05:22 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    Automakers can't do a recall until they have a fix.

     

    Asking car owners to put the keys on the shelf and not charge the batteries for an indefinite period of time is far more catastrophic than saying "you need to bring the car in for repairs."
    28 Mar 2013, 06:30 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    That's true. You can't stack em in the back of the dealership like bricks. Only one problem with not getting them away from the owners. Many will use them anyway unless you get them a means of alternate transport.

     

    I wonder how long you can go without plugging them in before the brick problem is solved?
    28 Mar 2013, 08:39 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4600) | Send Message
     
    http://yhoo.it/13ydozO
    http://yhoo.it/ZqhMbG

     

    2014 models unveiled
    27 Mar 2013, 04:59 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >LT ... Just another year with no PbC in site. Onward thru the fog to a brighter 2016.
    27 Mar 2013, 05:58 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1781) | Send Message
     
    DRich,
    Yes, I think we have to accept the fact that BMW's third party testing is still going on and it will be later this year (hopefully not too much later) before BMW will start fleet testing. I would think that will take at least 6 months, and then, if they decide to go with the PbC they will start the real negotiations and will want Axion, and another big AGM battery producing company, to sign a deal to make the batteries for them in the long term. It we are lucky, we'll see a roll out in 2015, if BMW doesn't require Axion to build an electrode facility in Europe first. If they do, then it might be 2016. IMHO.
    27 Mar 2013, 10:49 PM Reply Like
  • footleg
    , contributor
    Comments (26) | Send Message
     
    So I don't post here often because it is very clear that I have much more to learn from you all than I have to offer; and for that, I thank you. It occurred to me, however, that I might be able to ask effective questions (and you were all very helpful last week in giving perspective on AGM).

     

    With that in mind, I was wondering if the collective wisdom here could come up with a list of application along with the best battery for that situation. What got me thinking was a JP primer having to do with different batteries for different situations. Can we make an exhaustive list? (or at least an extensive one?)

     

    I imagine it looks something like:
    consumer electronics .... Li-ion
    power tools ... NiCd/Li-ion
    electric bicycle ... ??
    motorized wheelchair ... ??
    electric forklift ... ??
    traditional ICE ... LA

     

    micro-hybrid (auto)... ??
    mild hybrid (auto) ... PbC
    BAS hybrid (auto) ...
    full hybrid (auto) ...
    EV (auto) ... N/A

     

    micro-hybrid (Light Duty Truck)... ??
    mild hybrid (Light Duty Truck) ...
    BAS hybrid (Light Duty Truck) ...
    full hybrid (Light Duty Truck) ...
    EV (Light Duty Truck) ... ??

     

    micro-hybrid (Medium Duty Truck)... ??
    mild hybrid (Medium Duty Truck) ...
    BAS hybrid (Medium Duty Truck) ...
    full hybrid (Medium Duty Truck)...
    EV (Medium Duty Truck)...

     

    micro-hybrid (Heavy Duty Truck)... ??
    mild hybrid (Heavy Duty Truck) ... PbC?
    BAS hybrid (Heavy Duty Truck) ...
    full hybrid (Heavy Duty Truck) ... does PbC & ePower go here?
    EV (Heavy Duty Truck) ... ??

     

    truck APU ...

     

    regenerative elevator ...
    Bus ...
    yard switcher loco ... PbC
    OTR loco ... PbC
    marine ...

     

    residential solar ... ??
    residential wind ... ??
    UPS ...

     

    GRID
    grid solar ... Hot rock?
    grid wind ...
    peak shaving (energy) ...
    load leveling (energy) ...
    frequency & voltage reg (power) ...
    renewable smoothing (power) ...
    ramp rate control (power) ...
    load shifting (power) ...

     

    All the other stuff I'm forgetting...

     

    (Of course, I'm not even getting into the stuff that TG mentioned about the value of the BMS in the hub/cube, which is significant; just looking to understand the battery space better)
    27 Mar 2013, 06:57 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    I'd love to see some Axionistas' chronological list of expected catalysts, such as:

     

    Financing announcement.

     

    PC sale announcement(s).

     

    ePower: discovery that they're buying more PbCs or an announcement or something.

     

    May 15th-ish Q1 PR and conference call.

     

    The first announcement of s/s fleet testing.

     

    NS999 on the rails testing.

     

    OTR order announcement.

     

    Other.
    28 Mar 2013, 11:47 AM Reply Like
  • 42itus1
    , contributor
    Comments (214) | Send Message
     
    Surprise, surprise--- Mine would be EPA adoption of a testing regime for SS and some clarification of their expectations regarding longevity of such a system.

     

    Since there is no incentive for the OEM's to offer SS (at a premium) without a concomitant benefit to consumers of reduced emissions and improved mileage without EPA certification. Why would someone want to pay for the increased costs of a SS vehicle without any tangible benefit. Thus, lack of this certification translates to a major constraint for the US market.

     

    Until this EPA process is defined, SS will also remain relatively undefined with many different iterations remaining as experiments. I'm not aware of a specific effort to gain this EPA approval and I suspect it is because there are so many iterations of this SS concept.

     

    Once the benefit is defined for the consumer by EPA standards/requirements then this will become a REAL market for the PbC and it will be huge because there are only a couple realistic battery alternatives!

     

    Of course, I am referring to the US market. IMHO the European iterations have mostly created much bad press and experiences that needs the PbC in order to begin the recovery process there.

     

    28 Mar 2013, 09:31 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Does not look like Bethesda Systems is carrying the Rosewater Hub anymore as an offering.
    27 Mar 2013, 07:39 PM Reply Like
  • Keyboard
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    Speaking of the Residential Hub and recalling Rosewater's hint to Maya that there may be sales available containing less radical batteries, is anyone certain that TG's optimism for its sales necessarily implied that all orders would include PbC or even Axion batteries?

     

    How many entities could share in a non-Axion-battery-cont... Hub sale (Axion, Rosewater, contract mfr, distributor/installer) while offering it at a competitive price?

     

    If AGM batteries used for some sales would they be Axion's?
    28 Mar 2013, 12:56 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Keyboard, Pretty sure that the Hub is an Axion offering with Rosewater as a distributor for a 5 year period given certain metrics being met in the agreement. If the platform continues to be marketed as a HUB with AGM Axion does make AGM batteries. With Lithium ion? I'm not sure Axion would go there. Too different and requiring too much testing. Not to mention it takes away any competitive advantage they might have as they would then be going up against well established Asian entities. I think if Rosewater wants to offer lithium ion in their portfolio they would look elsewhere. PbC and AGM in the Hub seems a natural for Axion if the market dictated it.

     

    The distribution model for PbC and AGM would remain the same.
    28 Mar 2013, 04:24 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29570) | Send Message
     
    Changing something as fundamental as the battery chemistry would require a fresh start with UL and CSA certification.
    28 Mar 2013, 06:32 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    John, I was thinking about that. I wonder if that would be true for AGM vs PbC if the AGM battery was also already UL approved? UL approval required for the change to AGM and software changes?
    28 Mar 2013, 08:43 AM Reply Like
  • MitchS
    , contributor
    Comments (47) | Send Message
     
    Axion did a press release on Jan. 4 that the Hub received UL/CSA and IEEE certification, but I don't see a release on Rosewater's site? Odd.

     

    I have not been able to find proof that the Hub actually is certified on UL's, CSA's, ITL's, TUV's, or VDE's site. All come up nil for both Axion and Rosewater. Only UL lists Axion's battery certs (note the PbC 30HT!). Any sleuthing would be appreciated.

     

    UL results:
    http://bit.ly/14qBig3
    28 Mar 2013, 09:41 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... Going from all PbC to any other form of AGM, LAB or Li-on would, I think, definitely require recertification of the entire assembly. Even if every component in it was UL listed. Why? Because the control electronics/inverters PCB would require modification to handle different charge/discharge profiles. It is more than just software. It probably wouldn't take too long or be very difficult but UL is not cheap and each product line certified has to be inspected (fees involved) every quarter.
    28 Mar 2013, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Thanks DRich, Makes sense.

     

    BTW, I was not aware of subsequent auditing to maintain certification.
    28 Mar 2013, 10:02 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... I'm fairly certain that UL handles most clients like it does us. If a product is in production then every quarter they review the paperwork looking for vendor mods, variances & equivalents to parts going in. A cursory inspection of finished product is included. Only in the product made for healthcare equipment is a sample sent back to the lab & that is semi-annual.
    28 Mar 2013, 10:18 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Mitch: note how these two events are worded ... who is actually doing the testing (and it's not UL)

     

    MILWAUKEE, WI--(Marketwire - Jan 12, 2012) - ZBB Energy Corporation (NYSE Amex: ZBB), the leading developer of intelligent, renewable energy power platforms, announced today it has received the ETL listing to UL 1741 certification from Intertek Testing Services for its 25kW grid-tie inverter module of the ZBB EnerSection™ power and energy control center. The UL 1741 certification incorporates IEEE 1547 requirements for the interconnection of distributed generation (DG) resources. This certification signifies that the inverter module of the ZBB EnerSection meets all of the product safety standards for connection to a utility power grid anywhere in the United States or other countries where UL standards are accepted.

     

    ======================...

     

    MILWAUKEE, WI--(Marketwire - Sep 4, 2012) - ZBB Energy Corporation (NYSE MKT: ZBB), a leading developer of intelligent, renewable energy power platforms, today announced it has received Edison Testing Laboratory (ETL) listing to Underwriters Laboratories (UL) 1741 standard for its 125 kW grid-tie inverter module of the ZBB EnerSection™ power and energy control center. The 125 kW grid-tie inverter is a device that allows stored direct current (DC) energy to be converted to alternating current (AC) energy and put back on the grid.

     

    The ETL listing to test to UL 1741 standard was performed by Intertek Testing Services. The UL 1741 standard incorporates Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) 1547 requirements for the interconnection of distributed generation (DG) resources. This certification signifies that the 125 kW inverter module of the ZBB EnerSection meets, or exceeds, all of the product safety standards for connection to a utility power grid anywhere in the United States or other countries where UL standards are accepted, similar to the ETL certification of the Company's 25 kW inverter modules received earlier this year.

     

    "We recently announced and field labeled two ETL 125 kW inverters in Chicago which are currently in service for the Illinois Institute of Technology's micro grid project. This final certification is a significant milestone because it allows us to manufacture, test and certify that all 125 kW units shipped from our facility are ETL listed to UL 1741," said Eric C. Apfelbach, President and CEO of ZBB Energy. "This certification allows us to ship our 125 kW inverters to projects in China, Hawaii and North America."
    28 Mar 2013, 10:32 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    PS: I searched for ZBB in that UL database and came up empty too.
    28 Mar 2013, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >wtblanchard ... It might be a UL cert under "Intertek Testing Services" & not ZBB, but I don't believe it is a UL certification at all. It is, as stated in the PR, an Edison Testing Laboratory [ETL] cert to UL standards.
    28 Mar 2013, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    ETL listed mark: http://bit.ly/YhDsLr

     

    ETL search page: http://bit.ly/ZCbvwW
    (ZBB is found there, but nothing for Axion Power)

     

    Now looking at search terms UL-1741, and term HUB ...
    28 Mar 2013, 10:56 AM Reply Like
  • MitchS
    , contributor
    Comments (47) | Send Message
     
    Thanks WTB. If anybody can find anything, I'd place my bets on you. My concern is that you won't get any results. I've checked the databases of all the major test agencies that I noted.

     

    One typo in my post above: it should read ETL, not ITL (conflated ETL the mark with ITS their name).

     

    Mitch
    28 Mar 2013, 11:31 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (785) | Send Message
     
    Dear Friends. I share the following:

     

    Today I was visiting a BMW dealer and ask about the BMW Series 1:

     

    -. Q.: Has start/stop? A.: Yes
    -. Q.: The car has lithium battery? A.: No, It is very dangerous.
    -. Q.: What type of battery used? A.: LEAD
    -. Q.: How many batteries does it have? A.: ONE (Personally I saw this in the trunk.) The car has no spare tire, the space is occupied by the battery.

     

    I asked to the seller: What type lead-battery uses the car?: He did not know the answer (repeated lead) and was difficult to me see well all around the Battery.

     

    I concluded two things: BMW says: Lithium Ion battery is very dangerous and second: I really liked the car but do not buy for now.

     

    I talk a lot to Engineer-BMW dealer about PbC battery, but he did not understand anything.

     

    Thas is all, have a good night-Carlos
    27 Mar 2013, 07:40 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2128) | Send Message
     
    Carlos,
    I had a similar experience last year exporing the first S/S Kia product that hit the market. The mechanics and the salespeople had no idea about dynamic charge acceptance or any reason the lead acid battery might fail.

     

    Lessons will be learned but these things take time.
    27 Mar 2013, 08:24 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (369) | Send Message
     
    A car that runs on air and water:

     

    http://bloom.bg/XHVrHe
    27 Mar 2013, 07:56 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3332) | Send Message
     
    the tech is certainly interesting, but the presentation here is just knuckleheaded. Runs on air and water. BS. The aluminum is the fuel. They would do themselves a whole lot better if they would try to actually explain rather than deceive with the whole air/water load of crap. I don't blame the car company, as clearly their guy mentioned aluminum multiple times. Rather I blame the 'journalism' of bloomberg. It's just insulting. No wonder I hate that name more and more.
    27 Mar 2013, 08:10 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    It seemed odd that they would use one battery to charge the other.

     

    The Li Ion had 23 miles of charge when he was driving but seemed to say it was up over 100 as the water went in. Obviously the Li Ion can't hold that. I really don't know what they showed.
    Also it seems you are to charge the Li Ion at home and only use the aluminum as needed?
    Aluminum is $0.85 a pound and a pound gets you 25 mi.
    http://bit.ly/16iVrTF

     

    Retail, plus taxes. Seems cheaper.
    27 Mar 2013, 10:46 PM Reply Like
  • pascquale
    , contributor
    Comments (94) | Send Message
     
    Billa,
    Welcome back
    27 Mar 2013, 11:12 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2128) | Send Message
     
    GM sees the lithium light and starts imitating the rest of the EV world.
    http://yhoo.it/101ZqRR

     

    I had no idea that GM had built their investment, in bankrupt Daewoo Automotive, to be this big a part of GMs business.
    28 Mar 2013, 05:56 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17304) | Send Message
     
    03/27/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (up shortly).
    # Trds: 26, MinTrSz: 100, MaxTrSz: 54000, Vol 192540, AvTrSz: 7405
    Min. Pr: 0.2751, Max Pr: 0.3000, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2815
    # Buys, Shares: 10 35850, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2879
    # Sells, Shares: 16 156690, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2801
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:4.37 (18.6% “buys”), DlyShts 6500 (03.38%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 4.15%

     

    Since we are concerned about financing and don't know if we'll get a strategic investor or not, I thought I'd add, for now, the 30, 40 and 60-day volume-weighted average closing prices, and discounted 10%, which ought to give us some clue where financing might go if we happen to be close to matching the measurement period.

     

    30 day 0.3451 0.3106, 40 day 0.3405 0.3064, 60 day 0.3402 0.3062

     

    I'm wondering if the financing might be agreed to already and they are just closing it after the EOQ? For bookkeeping purposes, that seems a reasonable thing to do.

     

    My summary is it does look like we have entered short-term consolidation as we have highs stuck at $0.30, mentioned as one of our resistance points, and have lows staying, so far, at or above $0.27 for the last six days. Volume has trended slowly and erratically lower. I suggested a few days back that a move was looking more likely than not. With the increasing price spread, I can't say this is off the table yet. With the return today of “hitting the bid”, indicated by the buy:sell, while the asks remained relatively stable in the mid-to-high $0.28xx range and bids holding >= $0.275, it appears a move is less likely right now than before. Since we have entered short-term consolidation, we have a shortened week, we have EOQ coming, ... we might easily get into the early part of April before this “log jam” is broken.

     

    OTOH, anybody that's trying to “clean up” before EOQ that's not done it yet might dump today.

     

    Continued consolidation behavior seems supported by the oscillators I watch doing what they've been doing – up a little, down a little, up a little, ... All more or less around fairly neutral readings. Price is pretty much in the middle of my experimental 13-period Bollinger limits, which are converging, and the 50-day SMA is beginning to pick up steam downward.

     

    BTW, I just got reminded that our price activity is right around the mid-point of the $0.2018 low to the $0.38 high range. “Reversion to the mean” seems alive and well.

     

    A couple of notable trades today, reminded by Occam's_Razor's comment today about big bids.
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    These “hit the bid” and were all “sells”. I can't say all were part of a single trade, but the close proximity of time and price make me suspect some of them were: 11:37-11:41 $0.2800 x 12990, $0.2803 x 5100, $0.2810 x 35000 and $0.2811 x 10000; 13:51-13:52 $0.2800 x 54000 and $0.2801 x 10000.

     

    Because of that first group, at 11:58 we had a buy:sell of 1:32.26, with 74840 shares traded. That first group accounted for 84.3% of shares traded to that time. It's worth noting that even with that larger group in the afternoon, our buy:sell improved substantially from this point, but is still in weak territory.

     

    On my experimental charts stuff, those large trades moved the average trade size into the high area of what I suspect is retail and above all the averages. Volume ended above the 25-day average and below all the others and daily short sales continued very low.

     

    Most of the periods on my original inflection point calculations got “flipped” again, so they show less strength. Over the last few days it looks like the would net-out to “flattening”. My newer version is much better at reflecting the reality ATM: the three shorter periods leave no doubt that we are “flattening” and the three longer-term periods reflect the weakening relative to those time-frame calculations.

     

    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.

     

    HardToLove
    28 Mar 2013, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Thomas Granville - Chief Executive Officer
    BMW has done in-car testing, yes.

     

    Unidentified Analyst
    Right, but of small volumes I believe is what you said in the past?

     

    Thomas Granville - Chief Executive Officer
    Yes exactly, exactly
    ======================...

     

    Do we know anything about this?
    Note he has said "has done" not "is doing" ... meaningful?

     

    iindelco ... any color to add on the range of things "in car" means, and how it typically transitions to fleet testing?

     

    I could imagine there are a number of changes/new systems involved in switching to dual battery/PbC, any one of which could hold up fleet testing ...

     

    but maybe I'm rationalizing ...

     

    Are there ever multiple concurrent fleet tests that go on when there are a lot of new system changes?

     

    More likely I presume multiple concurrent "in car" tests?

     

    Is there anything between "in car" and fleet?
    28 Mar 2013, 09:14 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    WTB, In car testing possibilities, and these are not the only opportunities, would be some earlier low volume standard practice events like hot weather testing, cold weather testing, vehicles for lab testing (hot and cold chamber, salt spray, water intrusion, EMI etc.), some long term vehicles assigned to engineers/techs to drive around and perhaps some vehicles assigned to the engineers to tweak the BMS and other system components on site for the battery and electronics guys.

     

    Saying there are or have been PbC batteries at this stage of the game reveals little without further detail I'm afraid. It's pretty much a given that PbC batteries have been in any number of in vehicle tests. You can't get to the advanced stage Axion is at with BMW not having had some of the above events occurring. Can't develop systems without making prototypes at certain stages for tweaking and testing at extremes inside and outside of the lab.

     

    All of this would have occurred long before fleet testing in actual prototype future model vehicles or test mules that mimic certain system level integration.

     

    Heck they might have even done barrier testing by now where they would want to put a battery in place in a vehicle just to put it on a sled and see how it handles the various government crash tests. Hey, it's in vehicle!
    28 Mar 2013, 09:51 AM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    Wtb
    There was a mention of 'small' fleet testing somewhere.
    Not as accomplished but as a possibility.
    Something along the line of tens of units. Where as fleet testing was probably north of 100 units.
    28 Mar 2013, 10:05 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1506) | Send Message
     
    I get the impression that TG has been more tightly wound in the NDA's, meaning that he is restricted, more now than in the past, about what BMW may or not be doing. He did say that things were moving forward.
    28 Mar 2013, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    I'm guessing the improved discipline (it's what I call it---e.g., no "ridiculously slow" comments nor wild projected numbers) was due to moving up in the world: working w/ an investment bank and no longer being developmental stage. A little less of the wild west, anyway.
    28 Mar 2013, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    Metro, I can't help but think it's that and the current capital raise process that has him basically wanting to be mute on just about everything. Could be that if he puts out some piece of information then the process might be delayed or worse. So if there is new material information it wants to come out only if it's advantageous to the process or price.

     

    Delay is bad when you are burning calories and the pantry is getting low. Especially when additional supplies are not assured. Sawdust is not a great food additive.
    28 Mar 2013, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    II
    " Sawdust is not a great food additive. "
    High in fiber tho, and you can find it as an additive, listed in some breads as cellulose.
    28 Mar 2013, 12:24 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    froggey, Yep. They also add it to grated cheeses to stop them from binding. If I recall correctly it was also used in post war Japan as an additive to create a sense of fullness due to food shortages. Other similar events as well I'm sure.
    28 Mar 2013, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • Johhny rambo
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    I think that a lot of us are suffering from "overactive optimistic imagination syndrome", brought on by lack of definitive solid information !

     

    I think we should all give up guessing, as for almost a decade now, what TG wants to happen, will happen - end of story, we have zero control other than praying for a solid outcome
    28 Mar 2013, 11:57 AM Reply Like
  • WDD
    , contributor
    Comments (56) | Send Message
     
    <Uncloak for contrary view>

     

    While it is true that we do not control Axion’s fate, and while I suspect that the great MM in the sky might smile at our supplications, I don’t wish to see us “give up guessing”. There are WAGs and then there are SWAGs, and the crew here has been exceptional at not letting any theory or tidbit of information get by without very close and reasoned scrutiny. Axionistas have uncovered a trove of interesting (and often useful) information, and continually demonstrate to my satisfaction that none of us is as smart as all of us. “Publishing” in these concentrators is like an exercise in real-time peer-review, and has been (for me) very educational and frequently entertaining.

     

    <Recloak and return to lurking.>
    28 Mar 2013, 12:38 PM Reply