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  • Axion Power Concentrator 228: April 16: Axion Power On Panel At Energy Storage Economics 2.0 For New York City And Beyond 385 comments
    Apr 16, 2013 6:48 AM | about stocks: AXPW

    Latest News, Articles and Presentations...

    Axion Power on Panel at Energy Storage Economics 2.0 for New YOrk City and Beyond --

    The developer of advanced lead-carbon PbC® batteries and energy storage systems, announced its Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing, Vani Dantam, has been invited to participate as a panel expert on energy storage, at the upcoming AGRION event in NYC.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Axion Power's CEO Discusses Q4 2012 Results - Earnings Call Transcript

    Thomas Granville CEO: "We left the designation 'development stage company' in the dust in 2012 and there's no slowdown in sight."

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Axion Power Reports Results for 2012 --

    Chairman & CEO Thomas Granville commented, "Axion continued to make important strides in the fourth quarter, making 2012 a landmark year overall. Obviously our best year ever will be the first year when PbC revenue starts to show significant growth but it was a good step in that direction that we were able to recognize the first big PbC sale in the 4th quarter, to Norfolk Southern. This coincides with our first 10K filing without "development stage company" status. With our increase in sales, and more specifically sales of our core business product, we are now recognized as a commercial entity for filing purposes.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Axion Power Completes New Continuous Roll Carbon Sheeting Process

    "This is a giant leap forward for us and allows us to make a better product at a reduced cost," said Axion Power's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Thomas Granville. "It's the final step in automating our complete activated carbon negative electrode manufacturing process and it brings us tighter quality control, better production yields, meaningful production quantities and significant labor cost reductions..."

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Axion Power and EPower Engine Systems Inaugurate Strategic Alliance Using PbC Batteries in Hybrid Drivetrains for Class 8 Trucks

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dr. Ed Buiel, Axion's CTO until the end of 2010 -- A link to an archive of his comments on yadoodle about the PbC battery and much more. Invaluable commentary! Thanks to 481086 for putting the list together.

    Axion Power PbC Batteries Continue To Demonstrate Effectiveness For Railroad Applications -- Axion completed shipping its high-performance PbC batteries to Norfolk Southern Corp. (NS), one of North America's leading transportation providers, for use in Norfolk Southern's first all electric locomotive - the NS-999.

    Axion Power Residential Energy Storage HUB Certified to UL, CSA Standards -- Axion receives UL certification and CSA Standards for their Residential Energy Storage HUB.

    "ePower's Series Hybrid Electric Drive - Unmatched Fuel Economy for Heavy Trucks" -- by John Petersen. Discusses the potential fuel savings for ePower's Hybrid electric drive for class 8 trucks using Axion's PbC batteries.

    "Axion Power - A Battery Manufacturer Charging Forward" -- by John Petersen. This is an excellent summation on Axion Power's history. It is a good starting point for introducing Axion Power to friends and family.

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    Axion Power Weighted Moving Average Prices and Volume:

    The 10-, 20-, 50- 100- and 200-day averages stacked up in proper order from lowest to highest, which sets the ground for a rally when an event comes along.

    (click to enlarge)

    (click to enlarge)

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    Axion Power Monthly Volume versus FINRA Short Percentage:

    (by John Petersen)

    In late January I wrote an Instablog about the precipitous decline in reported FINRA short sales as a percentage of total trading volume. Over the last two weeks that trend has accelerated and the percentages for the month of February and the last four weeks are solidly in single digits. I view this graph as another confirmation of seller exhaustion. The big uglies are history and it looks like everybody who really wanted to sell already has.

    John Petersen's instablog here.

    (click to enlarge)

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    Axion Power Concentrator Comments:

    (click to enlarge)

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    Links to important Axion Power research and websites:

    The Axion Power Concentrator Web Sites, created by APC commentator Bangwhiz. It is a complete easy-to-use online archive of all the information contained in the entire Axion Power Concentrator series from day one, including reports, articles, comments and posted links.

    Axion Power Wikispaces Web Site, created by APC commentator WDD. It is an excellent ongoing notebook aggregation of Axion Power facts.

    Axion Power Website. The first place any prospective investor should go and thoroughly explore with all SEC filings and investor presentations as well as past and present Press Releases.

    Axion Power Intra day Statistics Tracking: HTL tracks and charts AXPW's intra-day statistics.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Be sure and either follow the Axion Power Host ID on Seeking Alpha or click the check-box labeled "track new comments on this article" just ahead of the comments section!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    WARNING: This is a troll free zone. We reserve the right to eliminate posts, or posters that are disruptive.

    Enjoy!

    Disclosure: I am long OTCQB:AXPW.

Back To Axion Power Host's Instablog HomePage »

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Comments (385)
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  • First?
    16 Apr 2013, 06:52 AM Reply Like
  • Congrat's
    16 Apr 2013, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • This money raise is turning into a real cliff hanger. This is really nerve wracking. I'm just glad I made up my mind to stay all the way to the end of this journey with Axion. Axionistas are believers. We're just as bad as the EVangelistas except we belong to another religion.
    16 Apr 2013, 07:06 AM Reply Like
  • The real world of business is always nerve wracking in the beginning. I have been on course with this company for a long frustrating time, but again every bit of DD points to a serious dedicated management with a niche product in niche markets, and so far no red flag. I suspect that if things get really tough, TG can always turn to Bob Averill for some funding, although this is probably not his preferred strategy. My advice is to stay on course, let your emotions pass by, and wait for the ultimate ride. The payoff is binary: either the product gains mass acceptance and we are in for a fabulous path, or it doesn't and Axion folds...
    16 Apr 2013, 07:19 AM Reply Like
  • Tic Toc ...
    16 Apr 2013, 07:57 AM Reply Like
  • Karima: There's one significant difference: our "Blue Sky" valuation doesn't exist like it does with the unnamed car company's. Almost all the risk we accept is now to the upside! :-))

     

    HardToLove
    16 Apr 2013, 08:09 AM Reply Like
  • Axion's BS to Book ratio is 1.6 and its price to sales ratio is 3.

     

    Tesla's BS to Book ratio is 38.5 and its price to sales ratio is 11.9.

     

    One has plenty of room to move up while the other has plenty of room to move down.
    16 Apr 2013, 08:33 AM Reply Like
  • Yet they both continue to move opposite to what you predict.
    16 Apr 2013, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • You remind me of the guy who jumped off the Empire State Building and remarked "so far so good" as he passed the 50th floor. Neither outcome is in doubt. The only question is timing.
    16 Apr 2013, 10:07 AM Reply Like
  • Yes, you've been using that one for years. I must have jumped onto the up escalator with my TSLA stocks. So far I've just stepped off the curb with my AXPW, hopefully there's no open manhole waiting for me.
    17 Apr 2013, 08:59 AM Reply Like
  • John,

     

    The price to sales ratio is misleading because most of Axion's sales are not of the product that is going to make them successful. I think this is a fine strategy for Axion to sell the traditional batteries but that number does not tell us that Axion is undervalued.
    17 Apr 2013, 07:48 PM Reply Like
  • Negative outcomes in the battery industry come to pass far more quickly than positive outcomes. Axion had ample opportunity to fold its tent and disappear when it didn't know how to make PbCs with consistent electrochemical performance; when it didn't know how to make electrode assemblies with optimal performance; when it didn't know how to manufacture electrode assemblies; when it didn't know how to cheaply manufacture carbon sheeting; and when it wasn't clear where the PbC would be useful.

     

    Over the last decade the PbC technology has steadily progressed along an R&D path that involved very few choices to sacrifice performance in the name of manufacturability or cost. If anything, today's PbC devices perform better than the original laboratory prototypes.

     

    The real miracle of the last decade has been the emergence of several multi-billion dollar markets that we never contemplated in the early days. Micro-hybrids weren't even a dream. RailPower technologies was convinced that AGM would do just fine in the Green Goat. Nobody understood the concept of dynamic charge acceptance or the reasons that lead-acid batteries lose their ability to cycle within a few months.

     

    I don't see a binary outcome in the sense of success or failure because that point is already history. The real issue is WHEN.

     

    I would never have predicted a four year validation cycle with BMW, but that's what it's taken so far. I would never have predicted a four year validation cycle with NS, but that's what it's taken so far. While I'd love to see a YES from one or both of them in the next year, it could take longer than any of us want to contemplate. If you think in terms of track and field events, I've always preferred the 1 mile runs. I had no idea that I was signing up for a marathon, but the PbC has covered enough ground that I'm confident it will finish in the money, but I don't know when.
    16 Apr 2013, 07:57 AM Reply Like
  • John. Unfortunately no surprise for me on the automotive timing given the PbC is not an off the shelf proven technology. And even then if the application was new you'd still be looking at comparable lengths of validation timing. We've seen words to this effect from other small start-up battery manufacturers and I also think East Penn shared words to that effect with you directly. But this is now and you're reflecting on past impressions. That being said I would think that BMW and the rest would have given TG a sense for what he was in for in automotive acceptance. A walk of a thousand cuts.

     

    Someday there will be an Axion Power Facebook page where people can post their reflections having bought blocks of stock over the last few years. But, alas, when?

     

    http://bit.ly/XP0gE3
    16 Apr 2013, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • The art of investing success is to combine the right idea with the right timing. Back in 2011 and given the information we had, no one would have predicted that the stock would linger this long in the doldrums. I sure hope that now is the right time for a take off. They say hope is not an investment strategy, but then what is when you are faced with the "broken stock syndrome"?
    16 Apr 2013, 09:26 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco,
    I will be posting my reflections from Capri where I will be living a life of debauchery that will make Emperor Tiberius orgies seem like debutante balls: or from my sister's basement.
    16 Apr 2013, 09:59 AM Reply Like
  • Metro: "debutante balls"???

     

    I thought débutantes came with some other standard-issue equipment!

     

    :-))

     

    HardToLove
    16 Apr 2013, 10:04 AM Reply Like
  • Metro, :)

     

    Well, I hope for your sisters sake!

     

    Errr, and mine!

     

    HTL, ;))

     

    Edit: Metro, For you this might be fitting given the pass the time topic. Your main man!

     

    http://bit.ly/11a4xxd
    16 Apr 2013, 10:21 AM Reply Like
  • >JP ... Axion is not demonstrating itself to be a pillar of strength here & now. It's giving me a headache.
    16 Apr 2013, 10:30 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco and HTL,
    PSY Gangnam video now has 1.5 billion views and the new one linked by iindelco above, that was posted on 13 April to the internet, already has 94,720,162

     

    New etiquette rule - when speaking of debutante coming out parties, one should always refer them in the singular.

     

    If living in Capri I could be the Emperor. In my sister's basement I would just be known as a perverted old goat. Actually I'm probably closer to Walter Mitty.
    16 Apr 2013, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • Hi Mr. John!!

     

    Let me ask a question: What was the initial interest (markets) AXION-PbC Tech.?

     

    Have a good day-Carlos
    17 Apr 2013, 03:17 AM Reply Like
  • When we started the process there was no clear interest from established battery markets, although we did forge a strategic alliance with East Penn at a very early stage. Axion's first SEC registration statement said:

     

    "We have no products and no revenue. Initially, we plan to focus on developing e3 Supercells for use in uninterruptible power supplies, which are also known as UPS systems, and DC power systems for communications networks. We selected these markets because worldwide sales of batteries for UPS and communications power systems exceed $1 billion per year, our current prototypes have a form factor that approximates prevailing industry standards and our president and chief operating officer has substantial experience and contacts in these markets. Our second target market will be short-term energy storage and buffering systems for grid-connected wind and solar power generating facilities and conventional electric utilities. Our third target market will be power systems for hybrid automobiles. We may also develop specialized e3 Supercells for a variety of industrial and consumer products including forklifts, wheelchairs and golf carts. There is no assurance that we will be able to develop a product based on our e3 Supercell technology or that we will have the ability to manufacture and market any products we develop."

     

    http://1.usa.gov/YTJl2G

     

    It's a fascinating read for somebody who wants to understand where we started and see how things have developed since 2005.
    17 Apr 2013, 05:24 AM Reply Like
  • Mr. John: Muchas Gracias!!
    17 Apr 2013, 08:04 AM Reply Like
  • I sure hope you're right, John!
    16 Apr 2013, 08:27 AM Reply Like
  • 04/15/2013: EOD stuff partially copied instablog (up in ~1 hour).
    # Trds: 27, MinTrSz: 100, MaxTrSz: 67000, Vol 253015, AvTrSz: 9371
    Min. Pr: 0.2600, Max Pr: 0.2629, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2610
    # Buys, Shares: 5 36700, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2629
    # Sells, Shares: 22 216315, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2607
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:5.89 (14.5% “buys”), DlyShts 5800 (2.29%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 2.68%

     

    Since today's average trade size is above what I believe to be “retail”, I wanted to highlight that we had one really abnormally large trade

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    and a few more abnormally large trades today,

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    just to provide a little context. If you don't want to read the comments, we had 5 trades (out of 27 for the day) totaling 169.1K, 66.8% of day's volume, at a VWAP of $0.2609. Excluding those, which is not reasonable of course, we had 83915 shares traded at a VWAP of $0.2613.

     

    I wanted to note that our asks and bids have been holding fairly steady, overall, the last many days and the price weakness is almost exclusively the result of sellers hitting the bids. This can be seen in the recent high “sell” percentages since 3/20: 57.22, 44.82, 20.78, 76.55, 45.52, 81.38, 57.46, 92.08, 78.17, 51.90, 77.89, 80.17, 71.25, 60.50, 75.92, 67.55, 74.48 and 85.49. As to the effect of the bids holding up recently, this appears in the VWAPs from 4/2 onward: $0.2610, $0.2669, $0.2655, $0.2653, $0.2620, $0.2647, $0.2630, $0.2610, $0.2620 and $0.2610. The average over this 10-day period is $0.2632. We mustn't overlook that some of this is from folks hitting the ask too.

     

    Which way we'll break from this trend is unpredictable, IMO, because of the apparently common feeling that everybody, except the sellers, is awaiting the capital raise news. Some feel the longer we go, the more positive because management wouldn't cut it too close and must have a decent deal in-hand. Others are much less positive and are expecting a raise yet to come that will be geared to some period's average price of some type, with a discount applied.

     

    My original experimental inflection point calculations continue to be disorganized, suggesting noting but more of the same for now. The newer version is better with the three near-term calculations saying “flat” and the longer-term ones showing a slight weakening at the moment.

     

    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Apr 2013, 08:47 AM Reply Like
  • One for the standard LAB guys.

     

    TI unveils breakthrough battery monitoring technology for lead-acid batteries

     

    "Lead-acid batteries typically behave better than lithium chemistries in environments with wide temperature ranges. However, today's lead-acid battery designs do not accurately measure and report current battery capacity, which often frustrates the end user, and could mean adding more batteries to keep the system adequately charged. The new bq34z110 gauge with Impedance Track technology constantly informs a user about the battery's state-of-health and state-of-charge and maintains up to a 95-percent accurate capacity measurement for the entire life of the battery. This information also prevents premature shutdown, increasing the longevity of the battery and end-equipment."

     

    http://bit.ly/17iPNQ7
    16 Apr 2013, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco: I can't help but wonder if adding expensive electronics to LABs to monitor SOC is actually economical. Might it not be cheaper to buy PbC batteries that have a convenient "terminal voltage = SOC" feature built in? Not to mention high rate of charge capability and longer life.

     

    If a major chip maker, and TI is a major, starts making a very specific chip for LAB control they are NOT thinking $0.10/chip pricing.

     

    I also believe that one chip per CELL would be necessary. $$
    16 Apr 2013, 02:44 PM Reply Like
  • SiHB, I'd agree that this will add some cost. How much exactly that cost is depends on the volume attained for of the chip and the balance of the control package. Chances are that some level of electronics is already being applied in these apps and this might in fact just be an advancement in the areas of precision and cost?

     

    That the PbC will outperform without this in certain apps. That's why we're here. I have no doubt PbC will satisfy in special apps and then work it's way into others as the volume goes up, lessons learned are applied and thus the price comes down some.

     

    Just get the darn thing out there. It's going to happen so it's really a matter of when which will obviously impact the weight in out sock drawers.
    16 Apr 2013, 03:04 PM Reply Like
  • Sili, from the article:

     

    The bq34z110 fuel gauge for lead acid-based batteries is available now in a 14-pin, 5-mm x 6-mm TSSOP package, priced at US$2.30 in quantities of 1,000.

     

    I am pretty sure this would be per battery, not per cell.
    16 Apr 2013, 03:45 PM Reply Like
  • “Fraught with leaking and overheating problems, the trolleys’ intended lithium-titanate batteries are more than two years behind schedule.

     

    Ebus has yet to deliver a single trolley of the five ordered that has operated for more than just a couple months.
    But the company is making progress.
    Bugs have been fixed with the trolleys’ fast-chargers, which have been keeping the zero-emissions vehicles on the road all day along Wenatchee’s Route 9, despite the older-technology nickel-cadmium batteries. These slower-to-charge batteries don’t have the endurance necessary to tackle the hills of East Wenatchee.
    DeRock said he is “cautiously optimistic” that the trolleys will be running on their intended batteries in April.
    That’s good news, he said, but it’s too late to properly test the five trolleys before deciding whether to use an additional $2.5 million grant to buy five more.
    A new wrinkle in the saga adds to the risk. A Chinese company has purchased the U.S. maker of lithium batteries, DeRock said, and changed the batteries’ size.
    The new size won’t work in the trolleys’ existing chassis without a major, costly retrofit.”
    Read more: http://bit.ly/ZYq8aI
    ----
    The above refers to lithium-titanate batteries for battery-electric buses (ignore the word trolley--these buses are not drawing power from overhead wires.)

     

    The supplier is the former Altairnano and as noted, the batteries have been fraught with leaking and overheating.

     

    The application here involves fast-charging, something the PbC is good at. I know the PbC would be at a weight disadvantage but I’ve read that lithium-titanate is heavier than other lithium chemistries and besides, the lithium-titanate has been “fraught with problems”.

     

    I would love to see the PbC tested in this application. Any thoughts on viability? Power would not be a problem presumably but is there enough energy in a PbC? (The buses are seven-meter long, 22-passenger units with 28 kWh-batteries that travel on two separate eight-kilometer-long loops and can be filled in about seven minutes with a fast charge at the downtown transit center.)

     

    Would size and weight rule this application out?

     

    Given the super-cheap hydropower available in this part of Washington State, it doesn’t sound like the cost of lithium-titanate is the problem here.
    16 Apr 2013, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • Quickie calc -

     

    28 kwh needs 56 PbC at 73 lbs= 4088 lbs, about 2 tons. Heavy, but not impossible. Likely a problem with the highly variable voltage of PbC, though.

     

    "A Chinese company has purchased the U.S. maker of lithium batteries, DeRock said, and changed the batteries’ size.
    The new size won’t work in the trolleys’ existing chassis without a major, costly retrofit.” There definitely would be a major change is size, which apparently is a big problem.
    16 Apr 2013, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • If we figure 500 Wh per PbC and fudge, same energy would be about 60 PbCs... at ~70 lbs per that's 4200 lbs... volume, well...picture about a pallet's worth: 12 per layer, 5 layers high...could they accommodate all that on a bus? dunno. Would it have the power available to propel the bus? I would think it could be adequate--two strings of 30 batteries at 200A would deliver something over 120KW...not going to be a screamer, but maybe a chugger...especially considering the short distance of the loops...
    16 Apr 2013, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • I often wonder how much of the 28 kwh battery pack (or any size lithium pack) they will actually use? If they only do 50% dod would a PbC pack need to be the same kwh capacity or could they do a deeper dod and achieve the same energy supplied using a smaller PbC pack?

     

    Rick, I also have a Prius (05) and IIRC I was told I am only using 20% of my Nimh pack, is that true?

     

    thx
    Kent
    16 Apr 2013, 04:02 PM Reply Like
  • Lithium titanate is supposedly a very fast battery with a very long cycle life. For something like a trolly that needs to run an eight mile loop before returning to base it's probably a good choice. They could certainly get a lot of voltage out of a 28 kWh pack if it was designed for that purpose.
    16 Apr 2013, 04:47 PM Reply Like
  • KentG - Don't know.
    16 Apr 2013, 05:08 PM Reply Like
  • thx Rick
    16 Apr 2013, 07:07 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks guys. 12 per layer and 5 high seems a little much, I admit.
    16 Apr 2013, 08:36 PM Reply Like
  • Seems as if the Chinese takeover of ALTI was a bit of a disaster. Previously Altairnano had a solid if expensive product. I assume the leaking is referring to liquid temperature management of the batteries since there should be little to no free electrolyte.
    17 Apr 2013, 09:06 AM Reply Like
  • 3D Printed Car Will Set New Standard for Fuel Efficiency
    http://bit.ly/13hRf4C
    16 Apr 2013, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • Re: 3D printed car.

     

    Only if they can embed carbon fiber cloth in the plastic! Seriously, I'm not sure I would trust 3D deposited plastic box truss members for strength and elastic deformation. But with carbon, glass or steel fiber reinforcement? Maybe.
    16 Apr 2013, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • http://bit.ly/RXDm9k

     

    The brochure is looking great! Now it's time for some big house owners to buy one :)
    16 Apr 2013, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • Axion-nl: Yep, but unfortunately, it's from ...

     

    Wed 12 Sep 2012 10:27:38 AM ED

     

    So not anything we can hope will be a new catalyst in the market.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Apr 2013, 02:47 PM Reply Like
  • OT(Youtube): Crescent Dunes Project Update Movie - April 2013

     

    Concentrating Solar Power ... in progress

     

    http://bit.ly/Zyg5cr
    4:54
    16 Apr 2013, 04:30 PM Reply Like
  • Hi fellow axionista's. Haven't posted in a while, but still visiting this forum every other day and trying to keep up. At this time I own zero stock, but my wife owns a whole sock drawer full, which puts me in a tough position from time to time (like right now).
    I wonder what TG has got up his sleeves.. time to find out.
    16 Apr 2013, 04:43 PM Reply Like
  • 14 days to EOM.

     

    Fasten your seatbelts.

     

    Engage!!!
    16 Apr 2013, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • >f-kru ... If you believe the rumors ... Silence is Golden ... just not my cup of tea.
    16 Apr 2013, 04:51 PM Reply Like
  • Hello F-kru, Time to find out for sure. Showing the hand he's holding is long overdue. I hope he's not holding out for a timely event from NSC.

     

    You've got to be very anxious if you've recommended this to the Mrs. If it doesn't go well she might just give you main stream American beer for the rest of your life. You better hope for the best! ;)
    16 Apr 2013, 04:54 PM Reply Like
  • Hey F-Kru! Good to see you again!

     

    I hope things are going well (current AXPW situation excluded, of course)!

     

    HardToLove
    16 Apr 2013, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks for the kind words. Everything's well. I just got tired of watching paint dry, although I'm still interested in the process of it :-)
    iindelco, the doctor won't allow beer anyway, so we got this sorted out.
    16 Apr 2013, 05:08 PM Reply Like
  • Hey, PBR (in bottles) is a solid no-apologies brew.
    16 Apr 2013, 05:50 PM Reply Like
  • 481086> You need to remember that f-kru lives in Germany and it's not real likely that he'd agree with your quality assessment on PBR, even though I was JB Pabst's paperboy as a young whippersnapper in Phoenix.
    16 Apr 2013, 06:19 PM Reply Like
  • I'm just trying to keep the ex's flying monkeys from stealing my shares - every time she tries to grab them she gets shocked - just like my ruby slippers.
    16 Apr 2013, 11:17 PM Reply Like
  • Hi Metro,
    I knew you had style, ruby slippers to match your bolo. ;-)
    17 Apr 2013, 02:08 AM Reply Like
  • The only American beer I know is Budweiser, but I think it's actually from Czechia :-) I grew up in Bavaria, where basically every city has ist own brewery. Even the small town where I was born (~60.000 people) had a veritable brewery. Nowadays they all got bought by some larger chain of course.
    17 Apr 2013, 03:13 AM Reply Like
  • Metro,
    My mistake, I meant boa.
    17 Apr 2013, 03:21 AM Reply Like
  • F-kru, Phew. So no risk there! Give your wife a shoulder massage. As an Axionista she can use the stress relief. Nice to see you sticking around. Always appreciate your input.

     

    Mr. 48, Yeah it's better that #1 Bud for sure. But they both have adjuncts. In the case of PBR it's corn syrup. Or in the words of the low brow beer drinkers like myself "add junks"!

     

    http://bit.ly/ZymZyu
    16 Apr 2013, 06:06 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks for the tip, iindelco. I'll have my own dry powder ready soon again, now that the thiefs from the revenue service seem to have moved on for another innocent victim. We've been through this before, because I discovered Axion way to early (2009 ish). But when I look what has happened since then, especially the carbon sheeting enhancements and the potential customer line-up I'm really excited about the times ahead, despite the current finance situation.
    17 Apr 2013, 04:09 AM Reply Like
  • But you knew that.

     

    Still the numbers by 2020 are impressive.

     

    Stop-Start Technology Faces Uphill Battle in North America
    2013 SAE World Congress

     

    "Rakoski says 10 million stop/start systems are sold annually on a global basis, and that number is expected to rise to 40 million by 2020, when North America is predicted to have a 60% penetration rate."

     

    http://bit.ly/YtuBms
    16 Apr 2013, 08:07 PM Reply Like
  • I was wondering if frequent shut-off as in stop/start harms the ICE engine, or reduces its performance?
    Especially diesel I believe does not like to be shut down?
    16 Apr 2013, 08:39 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco> JCI and Lux are in the 40 million range by 2017.

     

    D Lane> It's my understanding that starting a cold engine is mechanically stressful because the lubricants have drained away, but restarting a warm engine that's only been off for 30 to 60 seconds is no problem .
    16 Apr 2013, 08:54 PM Reply Like
  • John, Understand on the forecast side.

     

    My vision for 2017 vs 2020 isn't so clear and nor does it need to be. We think the market opportunities are promising in this segment for a minnow like Axion. Yet for me, I'm more interested in how Axion fits in the 2013-2015 time frame in automotive. An insignificant market percentage soon is far far more important at this stage than the future world market size depicted in the forecasts of Lux, JCI and this article.
    16 Apr 2013, 11:52 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane,
    My understanding has been that idling an engine and cold start are the two hardest things on an engine because the oil pressure is low - at least in the old days.

     

    My 90 year old farm neighbor used to go out and start his ancient 50 chevy every day - no matter the weather. His routine was take it from a cold start to about 50,000 rpm for 10-15 seconds and then let it idle for about a minute. I remember going up to help him get it started one sub-zero January day and standing back tentatively expecting a rod to come flying out of the engine block.

     

    Interesting that here in Dubai it is not uncommon to see cars left unattended and idling - no worries about it getting stolen. I'm guessing that more of this will be seen as Summer arrives as people leave their cars running with the air conditioner full on to keep the car interior from getting hot. Gas is about 37 cents a liter, or more or less about $1.45 a gallon - I didn't do a correct calculation. Lots of Mustangs and Chargers here.
    17 Apr 2013, 12:07 AM Reply Like
  • Agreed; 2017+ will be a missed opportunity if Axion can't get a toe-hold well before then. I had thought 2013 would be our year. However, it looks like the road to oem riches will be much longer than any of us imagined. Hopefully by 2015 model release late next Summer we will have an announce automotive oem win. Otherwise I fear the AXPW gas tank will be near empty.
    17 Apr 2013, 03:11 AM Reply Like
  • ii,
    I have always thought the European market would be where we start w S/S. Its already accepted. Electrodes can be shipped fairly inexpensively. There are several models of autos produced in low numbers. Perfect fit if the battery Gods agree.
    17 Apr 2013, 07:28 AM Reply Like
  • Agreed Futurist.

     

    Battery Gods? Axionists waiting for lightening to strike. Fast charger wanted!

     

    http://bit.ly/12m7C1f
    17 Apr 2013, 08:25 AM Reply Like
  • "It's my understanding that starting a cold engine is mechanically stressful because the lubricants have drained away, but restarting a warm engine that's only been off for 30 to 60 seconds is no problem "

     

    A little late to the discussion, but this has come up before and I'm sure will be questioned again, so for future reference the technicalities are:

     

    Cold engine: Oil is drained out of sensitive upper engine areas.
    Oil is cold & takes a few seconds to get pumped to the valve train & doesn't splash well to the lower cylinder walls.

     

    A good deal of engine wear occurs during the first 15 seconds of run time from a cold (<70 Deg. eng temp) start. That is one of the reasons to let the engine run as slowly as possible without stalling until oil pressure & temp are up. (no racing a cold engine)

     

    The other issue is metal expansion.
    In order to be clean & efficient, engine tolerances are magnitudes tighter now, (Mostly to eliminate blow-by)
    Tight bearing tolerances require higher oil temp and pressure to maintain adequate lubrication. Cold oil doesn't flow well in tight spaces.

     

    Pistons design is a high art as they become perfectly round
    and dimensionally true at operating temp, but are not when cold.

     

    Probably more detail than needed but some may have been curious. At any rate once an engine is up to operating temp. there
    is no mechanical damage from frequent re-starts, and even in 20 below weather, sitting off for several minutes & restarting isn't a problem from an engine wear perspective.
    20 Apr 2013, 09:28 PM Reply Like
  • And how does synthetic and modern spec's play into the cold start? my take is that a significant reduction in cold start wear has been reduced with the new oil and this is why it is not uncommon to get 200k on an engine these days...
    20 Apr 2013, 09:36 PM Reply Like
  • You are correct Tim,
    Synthetic oil flows easily even when cold.
    Most cars since the mid 2000's are spec'd for synthetics.
    My 2013 Tundra uses 0w-20 year round with a 10k change interval

     

    I've been an advocate of synthetics since Mobil 1 was the only game in town.
    one of my favorite commercials:
    http://bit.ly/17CDbDv
    20 Apr 2013, 09:50 PM Reply Like
  • Engineers Craft New Material for High-Performing 'Supercapacitors'

     

    Taking a significant step toward improving the power delivery of systems ranging from urban electrical grids to regenerative braking in hybrid vehicles, researchers at the UCLA Henry Samueli School of Engineering and Applied Science have synthesized a material that shows high capability for both the rapid storage and release of energy.

     

    "With this work, we are blurring the lines between what is a battery and what is a supercapacitor," said Veronica Augustyn, a graduate student in materials science at UCLA and lead author of the paper. "The discovery takes the disadvantages of capacitors and the disadvantages of batteries and does away with them."

     

    http://bit.ly/11q1q6V
    16 Apr 2013, 09:42 PM Reply Like
  • Any time researchers start fooling with exotic metals like niobium that have limited production and a wide variety of high-value uses, it's almost impossible to justify using them in the battery industry.

     

    http://on.doi.gov/ZzkU5p
    17 Apr 2013, 05:47 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks, John.
    17 Apr 2013, 01:34 PM Reply Like
  • Shouldn't ePower be trumpeting their success about now? Did the PbC battery fail to deliver the needed power?
    16 Apr 2013, 09:51 PM Reply Like
  • I'm really only expecting to hear results from epower testing about the time of the AGM, and I'm usually several months ahead of schedule. I'm thinking they really want to get a lot of data and testing to optimize the product before pushing the testing to further trucks.
    17 Apr 2013, 03:13 AM Reply Like
  • I think at ePower they're probably just having too much fun right now--exploring and expanding the envelope with their new batteries, seeing just how much they can get out of them and what they can really do. Realize, ISTM, that this maybe kinda the first time some genuine "good ol' boys" have ever really gotten their hands on PbCs and been able to really play with them. Up until now it's been big corporate entities... with I'm sure all kinds of protocols and structure and constraints and such---all them things that tend to kill fun and creativity---and probably *not* the culture at ePower I'd warrant. For ePower this right now is their whole show. PbC is front and center and star, not some third-tier priority program competing with several others. IOW it has 100% of their attention. There's just no way we could ever say that about NSC, BMW, GM, USN, viridity etc etc. So right now I just bet those ePower engineers and mechanicks and E-techs and gearheads are just in hog heaven over there. We'll hear something out of them before too long I'm sure. Further, I imagine that these guys, in the course of a few months, are going to become experts on the PbC and what it can and can't do... such that those guys could actually come to be in a very enviable position as first movers...
    17 Apr 2013, 04:34 AM Reply Like
  • My dream of them reminds me of my grandfather and the contraptions he built. I'd like to share in their "WooHoo!!" moments is all.
    17 Apr 2013, 07:54 AM Reply Like
  • http://slate.me/15lf7Zi

     

    and at slate no less...
    17 Apr 2013, 05:16 AM Reply Like
  • 48: I need some help on a conversion to miles from:

     

    "Even if driven much farther, 93,000 nukes, an electric car’s CO2 emissions will be only 28 percent less ..."

     

    Right now, I'm guessing it's some astronomical unit of measure?

     

    Thanks,
    HardToLove
    17 Apr 2013, 07:31 AM Reply Like
  • Hmmm 48,
    I think I've read these arguments before. Where could I have seen that? Hmmm.
    17 Apr 2013, 07:37 AM Reply Like
  • Angst-some-units? A unit of measurement sized to make the case for EV's look better.
    17 Apr 2013, 08:34 AM Reply Like
  • I expect that there is quite a bit of co2 releases with building a Nuke plant and mining, refining and long-term storage of fuel. I don't expect that the carbon comparisons we hear about with Nuclear power includes these estimates.
    17 Apr 2013, 09:35 AM Reply Like
  • JohnM121

     

    Don't forget to include in your equations the massive amounts of CO2 exhaled by the 1,000's of workers that will be employed to build a nuclear power plant!

     

    Oh and don't forget the financial benefit that goes along with all that employment.

     

    Like all the taxes paid by the above workers, their employers, material suppliers, freight handlers, etc etc.

     

    Then there's all those support services like housing, food etc that are the beneficiaries of the resultant trickle down economy.

     

    Very few communities that have nuclear plants in their neighbourhoods glow in the dark. I'm struggling to think of any in the western world.
    17 Apr 2013, 10:15 AM Reply Like
  • 04/16/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (up in ~1 hr.).
    # Trds: 31, MinTrSz: 371, MaxTrSz: 40000, Vol 161636, AvTrSz: 5214
    Min. Pr: 0.2601, Max Pr: 0.2700, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2634
    # Buys, Shares: 16 54196, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2659
    # Sells, Shares: 15 107440, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2621
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:1.98 (33.5% “buys”), DlyShts 9600 (05.94%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 8.94%

     

    Average trade size continues to be in an upward trend and with only one larger trade today – our 3 largest trades were 40K, 23K and 10K. Today we're smack in the middle of what I think is retail size and in the area of all the averages and the long-term calculated trend. If this keeps up, I might have to read something into it.

     

    You can see from the number of buy and sell trades, and their VWAPs and volumes, that the sellers and buyers were not far out of balance today. This seems supported by the bid ticks up and down, at the times I checked today, being fairly balanced – 4:3 in favor of up ticks. Asks favored down ticks – five down, three up and one unchanged.

     

    VWAP is holding steady: $0.2647, $0.2630, $0.2610, $0.2620, $0.2610 and $0.2634. Our five and 10-day averages are $0.2621 and $0.2635 respectively. Note too the buy and sell five-day VWAPs vs. their averages: $0.2642 and $0.2613 respectively. The daily values have been hanging right around their five-day averages, slightly up and down, for the last week or so.

     

    All of the above, combined with low volume, makes me think of “basing”. The trouble is we don't yet see strong trend evidence of the sellers being exhausted with the buy and sell five-day average percentages running at 26.02% and 73.98% respectively.

     

    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.

     

    HardToLove
    17 Apr 2013, 08:37 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting. No "dilution," but do they see their way clear enough to "bet the company?"

     

    Might this be a (dangerous?) option to start up electrode lines overseas for us? How much would it cost to start 1) a line, 2) an owned facility?

     

    Apr 17, 2013

     

    Ex-Im Bank Approves $1,140,000 Loan Guarantee to Finance Export of ZBB Energy's Power Control and Storage System

     

    http://bit.ly/17nGEFY

     

    "will guarantee working capital loans to be made by InvestorsBank, Waukesha, Wisconsin to finance the export of ZBB's energy power control and storage systems. The loan process is applied to individual foreign customers having entered into valid sales contracts with ZBB. Ex-Im Bank and InvestorsBank approved ZBB's initial request for working capital of $1,140,000."
    17 Apr 2013, 08:55 AM Reply Like
  • ZBB continues to find interesting financing ...

     

    http://bit.ly/17nGEFY
    17 Apr 2013, 08:58 AM Reply Like
  • Yahoo lists revenue for ZBB at $7M. It's in a growth phase, so I'd expect the current revenue to be much higher. It's usually easier for a company to sell into their home market. So, if ZBB's growth is coming from outside the US, that implies the other markets are ahead in making actual purchases, at least for zinc bromide.
    17 Apr 2013, 10:00 AM Reply Like
  • ZBB, like us according to TG, has a focus on selling to "Island Nations," e.g.,

     

    Dec 06, 2012
    ZBB Energy Signs an Agreement to Provide a 2,000 kWh ZBB EnerStore(TM) System for an Island Microgrid Project at the Luxury Eco-Resort The Brando on Tetiaroa

     

    http://bit.ly/THLQBR

     

    They've had a lot more success in closing all sorts of deals, partially because they sell both the Power Electronics as well as the Battery Storage. And to be fair, I think they've been much happier hitting singles (and pumping out the PR) instead of going all Earl Weaver on their "fans" and waiting for the 3 run home run.
    17 Apr 2013, 10:10 AM Reply Like
  • Ice Ice Baby!

     

    "The Fulcrum team congratulates the Durst Organization and the Bank of America on this soon-to-be completed state-of-the-art building. This 2.1 Million GSF, 54 story high-rise tower located in Midtown Manhattan has become the benchmark for future office tower projects with its incorporation of cutting-edge designs and environmentally-conscious support systems.

     

    ...

     

    A thermal storage system will produce ice in the evenings, which will reduce the building's peak demand loads on the city's electrical infrastructure. Daylight dimming and LED lights will reduce electric usage while carbon dioxide monitors automatically introduce more fresh air when necessary."

     

    http://bit.ly/1000yCc

     

    Music to read by: http://bit.ly/10g4KoK
    17 Apr 2013, 10:02 AM Reply Like
  • Wonder if we ever pursed in the least this market ...

     

    FLUX POWER INTRODUCES NEW LINE OF ADVANCED LITHIUM BATTERY PACKS FOR MATERIAL HANDLING EQUIPMENT

     

    NEW 24V LIFT™ PACK IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO EXTEND LIFE, REDUCE MAINTENANCE AND LOWER THE COST OF ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS IN MATERIAL HANDLING EQUIPMENT

     

    Apr 17, 2013

     

    http://bit.ly/YUS8RZ

     

    "Our battery pack is also equipped with a dripless sealed cell technology that eliminates acid exposure and the threat of damage to the facility, the equipment, and the staff

     

    ...

     

    As the only company today providing lithium battery packs directly to the material handling market

     

    ...

     

    patent-pending Battery Management System (BMS), which constantly monitors cell voltage, temperature and balance. The BMS then computes the battery pack's charging status and health, and controls major system components used in charging and discharging the battery pack. This precise control results in a battery that lasts many times longer than a premium lead-acid battery—delivering more than 2,000 cycles at 80% depth of discharge."
    17 Apr 2013, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • GE's latest purchase was connect to "Lift Packs" by an author on SA, link is below. I am not sure what all of it means tho.
    http://seekingalpha.co...
    17 Apr 2013, 10:30 AM Reply Like
  • GEs acquisition of Lufkin puts it in a solid position for oil field pumping equipment, which is also known as lift equipment. Basically if a well has enough pressure to produce at the surface, then no lift is needed. In low pressure formations, the iconic grasshopper pump is used for artificial lift. They're almost always connected directly to the electric grid for power, although some run with diesel gensets and might benefit from on site storage.
    17 Apr 2013, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • Grasshopper pumps AKA Nodding Donkeys?
    17 Apr 2013, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting microgrid blog comparison to the old telephone PBXs

     

    http://bit.ly/Yv6O5R
    17 Apr 2013, 10:33 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks Stefan, I've seen a couple of the authors articles before and she does a pretty good job compared to much of the fodder we see in our sectors of interest here. Good article.
    17 Apr 2013, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • Stefen - she's right on about micro-grids.
    They are the next best thing to off-grid and remote.

     

    So we build off-grid remote until the tribes unite, yet retaining the autonomy already built-in.
    From the other direction comes the disintegration and/or fragmenting of the grid as she describes.
    Eventually the parts are worth more than the whole, and they also function much better, period, and what's best is the ultimate consumer is the most satisfied, instead of the CENTRAL WHATEVER.
    17 Apr 2013, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • Add in the Walmart disruption (to utilities ... one might rethink Utility Income Stocks ...)

     

    Utilities: What Walmart's power plans say about your future (it's scary!)
    4/17/2013

     

    http://bit.ly/11wujhV

     

    "Now consider what would happen if ALL of your commercial and industrial customers went down the same path. If ALL of them committed to using 20% less energy. And ALL of them decided to generate as much of the remaining 80% on their own as possible. And ALL of them demanded that what little they bought from the utility had to be 100% renewable."
    17 Apr 2013, 03:48 PM Reply Like
  • Hasn't Germany already ventured down a similar path?
    17 Apr 2013, 03:51 PM Reply Like
  • Thought for yesterday:

     

    Is Car Charging Group The Bubba Gump Shrimp Of EV Charging?
    [View article]

     

    Gupta - DUH!!

     

    Electric vehicle companies founded on our tax dollars AND EV charging station companies founded on our tax dollars both end up as targets for vultures at pennies on the dollar from bankruptcy courts, and even at that investment level, bad ideas remain poor investments, doomed for failure. Therefore, my guess is that the guys like Car Charging Group, Beam and 350Green were/are being handed gifts from us taxpayers, but they still are a bad solution to a non-existent problem.

     

    Full electric EV's and the charging stations are buggy whips before leaving the starting gate, and there will be no race.

     

    All we have done is make some "special" folks rich on our tax dollars via a well planned and executed scam doomed for failure, ie., those that provided and installed the tax dollar provided equipment, bricks and mortar, which has become worthless, or soon will be, as well as useless.

     

    That's the problem with the Govt spending our personal wealth. It kills us the providers of the funds, and spreads the wealth to those that don't really deserve it, for a pipedream. It happens again and again.

     

    Fear not, however, there is Justice and a Justifier.

     

    http://bit.ly/Zr9qoz
    17 Apr 2013, 11:07 AM Reply Like
  • Don't hold your breath, my friend.
    17 Apr 2013, 11:27 AM Reply Like
  • Albert - as I said, FEAR NOT! Not to worry!!
    17 Apr 2013, 11:32 AM Reply Like
  • Can I get a JV?

     

    Germany on the Verge of a Subsidy for Energy Storage

     

    Will cover battery systems connected to photovoltaic installations

     

    ERIC WESOFF: APRIL 17, 2013

     

    http://bit.ly/15mBbD3

     

    "meant to be used in tandem with distributed solar installations with storage systems developed in Germany; the funds come with a maximum size requirement of 30 kilowatts. The batteries must have a warranty of at least seven years to gain the subsidy. Another requirement is that the PV installation sends 60 percent of its capacity to the grid over the lifetime of the plant. The battery subsidies will apply retroactively when connected to solar systems installed in 2013, according to reports

     

    ...

     

    Presumably, the initial battery systems will be lead-acid technology, which might give way to lithium-ion or other emerging battery formulations as prices fall."
    17 Apr 2013, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • It seems we have serious competition in the UK, in the name of Controlled Power Technologies (CPT):

     

    http://bit.ly/17oVrA8

     

    http://bit.ly/10hlbkL

     

    CPT has tested with Volkswagen at least (judging by the picture on the website). It wouldn't surprise me if BMW goes along with them instead of Axion. One possible scenario. My gut feeling is that we shouldn't hold high hopes for BMW as we are not the only company offering carbon-related technology in the Stop Start arena.
    17 Apr 2013, 02:44 PM Reply Like
  • I don't see the connection. CPT makes carbon reducing systems (ie exhaust pollution), which does include start-stop systems, but that would make them possible customers to AXPW not competition. They don't make batteries, they integrate them.

     

    Note that the carbon battery used in their system has no named manufacturer. It could very well be us!
    17 Apr 2013, 02:52 PM Reply Like
  • Sorry my bad, went on with the headline title without double checking in details. At least knowing the customers they are testing with gives us an insight into what potential OEMs (besides BMW) are currently looking at Axion technology!
    17 Apr 2013, 02:56 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna, Tis true. CPT doesn't make batteries.

     

    The demonstrator that won the award was powered by LAB's with carbon additives in the NAM provided by Exide. What CPT provided, since licensed to Valeo, is technology that is separate from the energy storage devices selected for the system. The ALABC is involved because they assisted with the carbon additives selected by Exide.
    17 Apr 2013, 03:02 PM Reply Like
  • In the press release, the following is quoted:

     

    "Allan Cooper, European coordinator ALABC will present a technical paper while CPT exhibits its technology to an audience of engineers and scientists explaining how hybrid electric vehicle performance can be achieved at significantly lower cost using low voltage switched reluctance electrical machines for boosting and energy recovery of thermal engines combined with the major breakthrough of high power density lead-carbon batteries"

     

    Now part of me wants to think that these guys are already aware of the PbC existence, or even better, that they are planning to become one of Axion's customers...
    17 Apr 2013, 02:59 PM Reply Like
  • This was discussed in previous APCs. JP filled us in as he was at the 2012 ALAB in September. There is no known VW sponsorship. It is uncertain what battery was used, but if memory serves, it wasn't ours.
    17 Apr 2013, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks!
    17 Apr 2013, 03:08 PM Reply Like
  • IIRC, it was an Exide Spiral AGM and according to JP it was not their first choice (the PbC was). If memory serves, the star of that project was the electric turbo...
    17 Apr 2013, 04:22 PM Reply Like
  • Tim, Your memory matches mine.
    17 Apr 2013, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • And mine :-)

     

    The whole purpose of the LC SuperHybrid project was to showcase CPT's electric supercharger and the water cooled starter generator. You can't run either without a battery, but the battery was never going to be the star of the show. CPT ended up using a pair of spiral wound batteries from Exide, but they only get mentioned in passing as the promoters wax poetic on the wonders of their mechanical devices.
    17 Apr 2013, 05:25 PM Reply Like
  • And for their purposes, the Exide batteries probably work just fine---I imagine they're not putting any real mileage on the thing, so they're not likely to degrade the AGM's too much like a real-world driver/owner would....and anyway, even if they do degrade, they can always recondition/replace the batteries at will in order to maintain functionality--all to showcase the efficacy of the other components. ISTM the Exide batteries are just kind of convenient stand-ins.

     

    I wonder though if anyone is really asking them how long the batteries will in fact hold up under extended/real use...
    17 Apr 2013, 07:36 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna, Here is the members list for the ALABC. You'll mote Axion is a member so "these guys" are well aware of Axion.

     

    http://bit.ly/XGTz4F

     

    This topic has been discussed here in the past. The technology is not devoted to a particular energy storage system and will still require any manufacturers that choose to validate it to select and appropriate storage system.

     

    The VW selected for this demonstrator as a test bed does not mean VW hase selected the technology for future vehicles. It's just a test bed.
    17 Apr 2013, 03:09 PM Reply Like
  • Electrovaya looks to pull Super Rabbit out of the hat:

     

    April 17, 2013 07:00 ET
    Electrovaya Launches the New Generation of Lithium Ion Battery Technology SuperPolymer® 2.0

     

    http://mwne.ws/10hCi60

     

    "The Company has focused on enhancing its technology by adding more safety features on all levels of the battery system. Key improvements in the battery system include:

     

    Safety improvements: fire resistance, reduced flammability, anti-propagation

     

    Wider operating temperature range at both hot and cold extremes

     

    More efficient thermal management system in a smaller space"

     

    Other improvements along key performance metrics"

     

    Couple other "goodies" in the release.

     

    Who knows ... you can snark, you can call it responsive, you can call it lipstick on a pig ... time will tell.
    17 Apr 2013, 03:58 PM Reply Like
  • As you may recall, as mentioned in APH 213:

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    February 20, 2013 07:00 ET

     

    Electrovaya Announces Memorandum of Understanding With Major Asian Conglomerate

     

    MOU envisages minority investment in Electrovaya, joint marketing arrangement, Joint Venture opportunities and business co-operation in all other areas including material sourcing and project financing

     

    http://mwne.ws/VXMo7h
    18 Apr 2013, 11:07 AM Reply Like
  • On the other hand, the "safety improvements" were required:

     

    APS fire probed
    January 02, 2013

     

    "Officials with Arizona Public Service Company are still investigating the cause of an electrical fire atop McMillan Mesa in late November that caused significant damage to a $3 million installation.

     

    ...

     

    A spokesperson for APS said company officials are working closely with Electrovaya Inc., a lithium-ion battery manufacturing company, to determine the cause of the Nov. 26 fire.

     

    The fire did not affect the nearby substation, as APS installed the equipment for the energy storage system away from the existing infrastructure.

     

    Firefighters initially had let the blaze burn while they waited for an APS crew and then helped establish a path into the yard to allow utility workers to temporarily shut off power"
    18 Apr 2013, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • Busy boys (though I think we talked about this Ferry in APC 197, perhaps without realizing who did the batteries:

     

    starting here: http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    World's First All-Electric Car Ferry Powered by Electrovaya's Lithium Ion Superpolymer(R)2.0 Battery

     

    Emerging Fast Growing Demand for Green Maritime Transportation

     

    http://yhoo.it/Yyapjs
    18 Apr 2013, 06:01 PM Reply Like
  • The staying power of the Axionistas continues to impress me.
    17 Apr 2013, 04:00 PM Reply Like
  • WIO; We sat down on a bench to watch the paint dry and ... the bench was freshly painted and we got stuck! :-))

     

    HardToLove
    17 Apr 2013, 04:12 PM Reply Like
  • I agree Wayne, and it's nice to be appreciated.

     

    I slept on a friend's couch for nearly six weeks, but his wife was not impressed with my staying power at all.
    17 Apr 2013, 04:19 PM Reply Like
  • Small in size, big on power: New microbatteries a boost for electronics

     

    "The new microbatteries offer both power and energy, and by tweaking the structure a bit, the researchers can tune them over a wide range on the power-versus-energy scale.

     

    The batteries owe their high performance to their internal three-dimensional microstructure. Batteries have two key components: the anode (minus side) and cathode (plus side). Building on a novel fast-charging cathode design by materials science and engineering professor Paul Braun’s group, King and Pikul developed a matching anode and then developed a new way to integrate the two components at the microscale to make a complete battery with superior performance."

     

    http://bit.ly/11wMLqF
    17 Apr 2013, 04:35 PM Reply Like
  • I bet that all batteries have a plus and minus side.

     

    I wonder what physical space these "new microbatteries" might require, environmental constraints plus the little matter of $cost and then of course the other question is when they will be available in quantity?

     

    Bon chance!
    17 Apr 2013, 04:49 PM Reply Like
  • The BBC take:

     

    http://bbc.in/10jg7wh

     

    "However, safety issues still remain.

     

    ...

     

    Other battery experts welcomed the team's efforts but said it could prove hard to bring the technology to market.

     

    "The challenge is to make a microbattery array that is robust enough and that does not have a single short circuit in the whole array via a process that can be scaled up cheaply," said Prof Clare Grey from the University of Cambridge's chemistry department.

     

    University of Oxford's Prof Peter Edwards - an expert in inorganic chemistry and energy - also expressed doubts.

     

    "This is a very exciting development which demonstrates that high power densities are achievable by such innovations," he said.

     

    "The challenges are: scaling this up to manufacturing levels; developing a simpler fabrication route; and addressing safety issues.

     

    "I'd want to know if these microbatteries would be more prone to the self-combustion issues that plagued lithium-cobalt oxide batteries which we've seen become an issue of concern with Boeing's Dreamliner jets."

     

    Prof William King hopes to use the microbattery to power electronic equipment before the end of the year. Prof King acknowledged that safety was an issue due to the fact the current electrolyte was a combustible liquid.

     

    He said that in the test equipment only a microscopic amount of the liquid was used, making the risk of an explosion negligible - but if it were scaled up to large sizes the danger could become "significant".

     

    However, he added that he soon planned to switch to a safer polymer-based electrolyte to address the issue."
    18 Apr 2013, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • Apologies to all.

     

    Feeling a bit grumpy.

     

    I'm going to be off net for awhile, really would have appreciated some good news before I go.

     

    Good luck to all......of us!!
    17 Apr 2013, 04:53 PM Reply Like
  • Be well Albert. See ya when you return. Hopefully to see some good news!
    17 Apr 2013, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • I'm grumpy today too.

     

    I had a bet with the wife back in Feb that the finance was going to be today. Checked this morning before heading off for work, nothing. Work has been a downer all day. Ugh.
    17 Apr 2013, 05:05 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty,
    Each minute that passes makes it less likely that we will hear something today, but they did send out the e-mail announcing the contract extensions on a Friday at 5:38 PM.
    17 Apr 2013, 05:13 PM Reply Like
  • >AlbertinBermuda ... Tic. Toc. Another day runs off the clock.
    17 Apr 2013, 06:05 PM Reply Like
  • Al, totally understand. Feels like we are just on the rack, with each pre-market morning that passes without news, "click", another turn, the ropes bite deeper...and then as yet another afternoon wanes post-market...with still no news... sigh, SSDD...another "click", as we're stretched still tighter and tighter across the wicked span... oh the humanity!
    Agoneee!..Agoneee!....
    17 Apr 2013, 06:39 PM Reply Like
  • Be well Albert!
    17 Apr 2013, 07:43 PM Reply Like
  • iidelco - another remarkably vague, data-free, "let's imagine" story...

     

    Also note micro-batteries are a very interesting space with a wide variety of technologies that do not scale eve up to a "D" cell.
    17 Apr 2013, 06:21 PM Reply Like
  • Electrochemistry by John Lennon.
    17 Apr 2013, 06:23 PM Reply Like
  • Rick and John, Yeah. But my son had just come back from a co-op interview with a division of J&J where they are working with MEMS. So I was feelin it!.

     

    Layering things atom by atom should be "cheap" and cool right? Imagine indeed. ;))

     

    And from Mr. Lennon. How fitting.

     

    http://bit.ly/XtbqMV
    17 Apr 2013, 07:52 PM Reply Like
  • Hi everyone!

     

    Let me ask a question.

     

    When we have a new Investor Presentation in AXION Web Page?

     

    Thanks-carlos
    17 Apr 2013, 06:29 PM Reply Like
  • Tomorrow Carlos, tomorrow,
    or the next day, or the next.

     

    But someday for sure. Even Mondays are somedays somewhere, right?
    17 Apr 2013, 10:08 PM Reply Like
  • "never jam today"!
    18 Apr 2013, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • Jeremy Grantham, speaking informally on energy storage:

     

    ". . .And, by the way, we will have many breakthroughs in storage. If I had to make a bet, I would say that's the most promising, important breakthrough of the next several years. Everyone is working on this. If you have a big smart grid – and all the desert of Xinjiang and all the wind of Inner Mongolia – and it's all swirling around with relatively little loss and you have a grid smart enough to go in there Chinese-style and turn your fridge off for half an hour to save energy, and do this and do that, you don't need nearly the back-up. The bad guys will tell you that you need 100% back-up and messianic environmentalists will tell you that you need 0%. But maybe 20% back-up will be needed as everyone is working on storage. I'm certain it will happen. Some technologies take time then go, "Bang!". Look at video conferencing. It has been around forever and the quality was terrible. But now it is so clear and instant. Technology has a habit of boring you to death and disappointing you for 20 years then suddenly it delivers a new world…"
    http://bit.ly/ZsEVOX

     

    (I didn't use to know who Grantham was. He is a legendary investor: http://bit.ly/11j0joF)
    17 Apr 2013, 10:04 PM Reply Like
  • I'll strongly endorse reading Grantham. His quarterly letter can be found at the link below. Registration is free.

     

    http://bit.ly/11iS0rl

     

    It's funny that he's so positive about storage. Read back a few letters to see his views on food and energy and the need for reducing population in the coming decades and centuries. He makes JP look like a hopium addict.
    17 Apr 2013, 10:37 PM Reply Like
  • Grantham is a Yorkshireman. That explains everything.
    18 Apr 2013, 09:06 AM Reply Like
  • apmarshall, good point!
    Grantham's knack for being either bullish and bearish, depending on the evidence, is something to look for in an investment writer. He is not a perma-bear, although his critics will grouse to that effect. He is a contrarian, but not for the sake of being contrary.
    18 Apr 2013, 10:04 AM Reply Like
  • Article on S/S discussing SAE World Congress hits USA Today.

     

    http://usat.ly/114kLcB
    17 Apr 2013, 11:14 PM Reply Like
  • A friend of mine sent me this:

     

    http://bit.ly/174Dzw2

     

    Sounds like the right approach: increase surface area on both electrodes as much as possible.
    18 Apr 2013, 12:05 AM Reply Like
  • It's an interesting technical approach that shows the trade-offs one always encounters. You can get more power and speed, but only if you're willing to sacrifice energy and pay a higher price.

     

    The approach seems to be working in the case of the PbC which is focused on large footprint applications where you can overcome the energy density issues with the brute force of large battery packs. It won't work in applications like EVs where large packs are non-starters because of space and weight constraints.

     

    Axion's had a devil of a time figuring out how to cheaply make carbon sheets that are far less complex than the U of I process. The new breakthrough may work wonderfully but at what cost?
    18 Apr 2013, 06:38 AM Reply Like
  • Billa, from the article: "comparable energy density to current nickel-zinc and lithium-ion batteries".

     

    The killer for all BEV applications is energy density, eg, kwh/liter, not power density. The best batteries are about 1/15-1/20 the energy density of petrofuels; many are worse and need large BMS. Replacing a 20 gallon fuel tank with a 300-gallon volume of battery is not practical, and never will be. Over 50% of all the ions in commercial batteries are already active; energy densities cannot even double.

     

    No vehicle needs all the energy in a few seconds; a car need energy for several hours. There are applications that need high power density, eg, kw/liter, but BEV is not one.

     

    The example of starting a (warm) car might work; leaving the headlights on for a few minutes would kill the battery.
    18 Apr 2013, 08:26 AM Reply Like
  • Rick,

     

    I think we've all pretty much come to the conclusion that except in the case of certain limited applications BEV's are a pipe dream.

     

    What caught my eye was the idea of increasing surface area to increase the reactive density of the electrodes, which I know is one aspect of the PbC's design.

     

    Beyond that I am sure this chemistry is just one more idea that may or may not become a product 5 or 10 years from now.
    18 Apr 2013, 03:04 PM Reply Like
  • http://bbc.in/10jg7wh

     

    This could be a huge winner in the Battery business, but at least they are honest that it could be very difficult to scale and provide the correct safety.
    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, after 4 years of BMW-NS testing, we still wait for the interminable death by a thousand financing cuts !
    18 Apr 2013, 12:58 AM Reply Like
  • 04/17/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instblog (up later).
    # Trds: 24, MinTrSz: 100, MaxTrSz: 17880, Vol 115060, AvTrSz: 4794
    Min. Pr: 0.2600, Max Pr: 0.2750, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2612
    # Buys, Shares: 6 21500, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2650
    # Sells, Shares: 18 93560, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2604
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:4.35 (18.7% “buys”), DlyShts 5275 (4.58%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 5.64%

     

    Average trade size hanging in the rising trend, barely today, and is in the middle area of what I think is normal retail size today. Sell percentage is still the heavyweight today at 81.3% with the 5-day average now at 75.1%. Our five-day VWAP sits at $0.2617 and is trending lower. Volume continues to fall off with 10, 25 and 50-day averages, in thousands, at 214, 223 and 191 respectively.

     

    Everything else is pretty-much unchanged. Flat, flat, flat ... with mild weakening. Both versions of my experimental calculations are unchanged: the original disorganized suggesting nothing and the newer version organized better and suggesting flat or a mild down bias for now.

     

    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.

     

    HardToLove
    18 Apr 2013, 09:05 AM Reply Like
  • The guy that shuns the limelight because he doesn't want to over promise on timing. I can't imagine how he'd be if he believed in promoting heavily. LOL

     

    Well, yawn, at least someone turned off their cloaking device!

     

    Lead-Acid Could Challenge Lithium-Ion in Hybrids

     

    "With disenchantment in lithium-ion technology on the rise, lead-acid batteries may be poised to play a bigger role in green vehicles.

     

    Automakers are said to be taking a closer look at lead-acid, in hopes that the century-old chemistry could serve in future vehicles that employ mild hybrid and start-stop powertrains. ”When I conceived of this company two-and-a-half years ago, the interest in lead-acid technology was zero,” Subhash Dhar, founder and CEO of Energy Power Systems (EPS), maker of a new lead-acid battery chemistry, told Design News. “Today, on a one-to-10 scale, it’s a seven.”"

     

    http://bit.ly/17IFwzv
    18 Apr 2013, 09:09 AM Reply Like
  • The one take away I like from this article is the comment about a significantly higher level of interest which correlates with TG's comments about having to hire more staff to respond to interested parties. We have a level of verification in heightened interest anyway.
    18 Apr 2013, 11:16 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco, absolutely.

     

    This is worth repeating:

     

    ”When I conceived of this company two-and-a-half years ago, the interest in lead-acid technology was zero,” Subhash Dhar, founder and CEO of Energy Power Systems (EPS), maker of a new lead-acid battery chemistry, told Design News. “Today, on a one-to-10 scale, it’s a seven.”"
    18 Apr 2013, 11:41 AM Reply Like
  • That link led me to this one on the same site that we seemed to have missed (from using BW's search feature.)

     

    Why Ford Chose Lithium-Ion for 2013 Hybrids

     

    Charles Murray, Senior Technical Editor, Electronics & Test
    1/2/2013

     

    http://bit.ly/VEu8MC

     

    "When Ford Motor Co. announced in 2012 that its new hybrids would use lithium-ion batteries instead of nickel-metal hydride, many experts raised an eyebrow.

     

    Lithium-ion, after all, had a reputation for high cost and unknown durability, largely because the technology was still comparatively new. In contrast, approximately 95 percent of full and mild hybrids up to that time had used nickel-metal hydride.

     

    But Ford engineers now say their decision to use lithium-ion was based on accelerated lab tests showing lithium-ion would actually be more durable than nickel-metal hydride over a long lifetime. The tests, combined with mountains of field performance data on nickel-metal hydride, convinced them that they could predict the eight- or 10-year future of a chemistry that didn't even have five years worth of reliable field data.

     

    "We are really confident that our Key Life Tests are mimicking the duty cycle of some of our most stringent and abusive customers," Kevin Layden, Ford's director of electrification programs and engineering, told Design News. "Given that, we feel lithium-ion will be better than nickel-metal hydride. We expect it to be absolutely stellar."

     

    ...

     

    its second generation Fusion hybrid now uses lithium-ion. So does the C-Max hybrid, the Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid, the C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid, and the Focus Electric."

     

    Long comment stream as well ...

     

    Anyone know for sure who supplies their batteries?
    18 Apr 2013, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • I have a dream. A dream of a green loco rolling out the doors of (alarm sounds) ..............

     

    Have to see if his presentation is relayed with more detail in another article or online posting. Saving fuel? Hmmmm

     

    CEO of Norfolk Southern speaks about future of railroads

     

    " Wednesday, Charles Moorman, the president and CEO of Norfolk Southern Corporation spoke at the 2013 joint rail conference on UT's campus.

     

    He says the future of railroads is bright, but the industry could use some work, such as investing in technology to help with network management, logistics, efficiency, and saving fuel."

     

    http://on.wbir.com/YxfFDZ
    18 Apr 2013, 09:19 AM Reply Like
  • Since we're about to install a PV system on our roof I did some research on the energy storage subsidy that will start on May 1 in Germany. Interestingly none of the builders / installers we talked to last month were aware of it.
    Here's the deal:
    - eligible only for new installations under 30 kWp with feed in tariff
    - up to 30% of the cost of the storage device
    - up to 660 € per kWp installed PV modules
    - required that the storage unit will be in use for 5 years
    - 7 year replacement warranty required by the vendor (time based market value)

     

    After the recent rise in price, electricity is now at 37 US Cent per kWh in Germany. Still, this doesn't make sense from an economic perspective, because even the lead based units are too expensive, since the vendor has to factor in the warranty.

     

    Me thinks the PbC would be a perfect fit for this market if Axion could bring down the cost enough for the mini cube and partner with a company like SMA, who basically already owns the market for solar Inverters.
    18 Apr 2013, 09:46 AM Reply Like
  • >Still, this doesn't make sense from an economic perspective, >because even the the lead based units are too expensive, since the >vendor has to factor in the warranty.

     

    Doesn't make sense even with the subsidy?
    18 Apr 2013, 10:39 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane, I haven't fully gotten my head around it. It depends on so many things, e.g. how much electricity it will save. This is really hard to say. Every kWh produced by the PV modules will save us 13 Euro right now. Could be 15 cents or even 17 cents three years from now. We use about 6000 kWh per year in our house.
    The real question is how many kWh storage will save us how many kWh in use. A couple of months in Winter, it won't be much anyway.

     

    Given we'd still have to buy 30% of consumption and the average electricity price is 30 euro cents
    6000 kWh pa * 70% * (30 - 15) = 630 Euro p.a.
    Let's say the battery lasts 7 years, that would be 4410 Euro. If you factor in the subsidy that would be 5730 Euro or around $7.500
    How large the battery would need to be I don't know. I guess 4kWh would be OK.
    This doesn't factor in that even without the battery we could probably use up 20% of the generated electricity.

     

    18 Apr 2013, 11:19 AM Reply Like
  • f-kru, would you mind sharing more details on your new system like size, # of panels, watts per panel, etc?

     

    thx
    Kent

     

    PS I have a 10yr old 4.2kw DC/3.4kw AC system with 26 160W Sharp panels and 2 SMA inverters
    18 Apr 2013, 11:58 AM Reply Like
  • KentG, no problem: it will be 24x250W Jinko Solar panels with a Kostal Pico 5,5 inverter. I'm not sure about the Kostal converter that the installer recommended, SMA is much more common.
    18 Apr 2013, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • F-kru, Thanks for sharing your data and experience thus far. One question if you don't mind.

     

    In the US they are separating the delivery charges (transmission and maintenance) from the generation (electricity) charges. Is your 0.37 USD charge per kWh a complete cost for electric or do you have other charges on your bill?
    18 Apr 2013, 10:29 AM Reply Like
  • There's no difference. You pay 28 Euro cents and this is it. Next year it's probably 30. The feed in tariff is 15 Cents for 20 years if we get it done until April 30.
    18 Apr 2013, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • F-kru, Thanks for the clarification!
    18 Apr 2013, 11:12 AM Reply Like
  • Had a brief few minutes of asks marching up ... with no trades. Anyway, got to see a short peek of ATDF offering 100K @ $0.2749. So this will be laying in wait if we get a rise.

     

    HardToLove
    18 Apr 2013, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • To our Texan friends, here's hoping that none of you were near the fertilizer plant explosion and had no friends or family involved.

     

    I know we all have thoughts for those killed, their families and the 115(?) injured.

     

    HardToLove
    18 Apr 2013, 11:28 AM Reply Like
  • Just thinking out loud.

     

    It seems to me that if TG and gang were in control of the funding issue they would not want to wait until the last hour to announce the results and therefore keep from causing all this anxiety in the shareholder base! With that said can anyone spin this situation into a positive? If so, please do so and put a smile on my face!
    18 Apr 2013, 12:39 PM Reply Like
  • With his experience as a management-side labour negotiator, I suspect that TG is an expert at brinksmanship.

     

    I heard that when he goes into negotiation sessions he crazy-glues his eyelids open so that he's NEVER the one to blink.

     

    D
    18 Apr 2013, 01:00 PM Reply Like
  • Rbrun, A few of the positive possibilities.

     

    -Axion has a big event coming and TG wants to get financing after the announcement. Fleet testing or the OTR order as examples.

     

    -The financing is in negotiations but complex as they have to draw up a legal document to cover the partnership.

     

    - Gerhard Thelen joins Axion cuz dat battery is da best darn opportunity he's ever seen! Ta hell with that ole stable RR stuff.

     

    - Axion is waiting for the milk, cookies and pain killer to arrive and we're all invited for the announcement which is complete.
    18 Apr 2013, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • >iin or maybe TG thought he ad a big event coming, but SHOCKINGLY, it was delayed ...
    18 Apr 2013, 01:37 PM Reply Like
  • ii,

     

    You are my Hero! ;-))

     

    Thanks for the spin, I have run many a scenario through my thought processes also and I do believe that the funding will be resolved. Unfortunately I continue to revert back to my current opinion that if TG was truly in some form of great bargaining position and therefore possessing a little bit of control he would have made every attempt to put the good news behind us instead of carrying this unknown down into the final 2 weeks of reported working capital. Since this is the reality I am finding my optimism for a really good funding with a strategic investor starting to be strained a bit and now moving more into the "hoping" range!

     

    Hopefully when the announcement does arrive it will be cause for a big party!
    18 Apr 2013, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • WTB, A delay? Nah, never happen!
    18 Apr 2013, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • It would probably be against his principals as national labour side negotiator, but now that the carbon sheeting is fully automated, I'm asking myself if there will be layoffs happening.
    Great means for saving costs and at this point in time easy to argue ("I'm sorry folks, but we have to do it or we'll be broke...").
    18 Apr 2013, 03:12 PM Reply Like
  • I don't think there would be any layoffs as we weren't spending a lot of time and resources making PbC for the end market anyway. What it means is that it was a cost avoidance" as we didn't have to add staff to be able to complete the batteries for customer #1.

     

    Cost reductions are good and easy. Real cost avoidance are better as you had the mgmt ability to never let the costs get away fromy in the first place.

     

    I know its natural for us all to worry about the unknown from a financing perspective but I have to believe that every day that we don't see anything from Mr. Granville that the better it is for current shareholders. I assume some of John's knowledge rubbed off on TG that you "always take the money" and don't pull a firefly.

     

    IMO, if we get to May and there is no financing announcement or there is a financing announcement for $15M I will be overjoyed. $10M and I'll be disappointed.
    18 Apr 2013, 06:16 PM Reply Like
  • We should remember that this is the same team that sold shares for .57 (almost 1/3 discount to market). At that time it was a good move. This is not a team that would pass up money if they didn't have other options. I also am optimistic as the days go by.
    18 Apr 2013, 08:55 PM Reply Like
  • I have had that thought myself Indeed they will do what they have to. But many here might not want to take that kind of haircut. But 20 cents would be better than a poke in the eye.
    19 Apr 2013, 01:35 AM Reply Like
  • Oh I'm saying that if we had to take a haircut, we'd probably already have.
    19 Apr 2013, 02:14 AM Reply Like
  • At this rate in the Stock Market all the other stocks are coming down to Axion's level.
    18 Apr 2013, 12:55 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah, but we were here first. :)
    18 Apr 2013, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • Here's my spin:
    1. The inventory build up in the 4th quarter of 2012 has been turned into cash.
    2. Staffing has been sized to the current needs.
    3. Bang is living in a trailer powered off the power cube, responding to RFP's and being paid on commission in shares.

     

    I was 90 miles from the fertilizer plant. Luckily school was out.
    18 Apr 2013, 01:17 PM Reply Like
  • JohnM121: I wouldn't be surbrised if you heard the explosion. I heard something drift acrosss the CNBC feed about U.S. Geologic folks got a reading from it ... somewhere in the 2 range, IIRC.

     

    Glad to hear that you and yours are all good.

     

    HardToLove
    18 Apr 2013, 01:29 PM Reply Like
  • JohnM, Happy to hear you and your loved one's are all OK. :)
    -
    Hey, We're advanced....over here! Jeeze!

     

    Total Installed Capacity of Advanced Lead-Acid Batteries to Surpass 5 Gigawatts by 2020, Forecasts Navigant Research

     

    http://aol.it/15paUDU
    18 Apr 2013, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • Everyone wants an "UltraBattery" .. I mean just look at the name.
    PbC? What's that?
    18 Apr 2013, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • "I mean just look at the name. PbC? What's that?"

     

    What is it? the REAL UltraBattery <smile>, I do know what you mean though, the name isn't very sexy...
    18 Apr 2013, 11:34 PM Reply Like
  • My take on the financing needs. It is obvious what the options are,
    - Investors like last time
    - Strategic partner
    - Inventory is sold which bought another month or two

     

    So my question is, IF we were getting a partner, Why would we need an investment bank?

     

    IMO, I don't see XIDE, JCI, East Penn, BMW needing an investment banker to buy shares to form a partnership deal. So I lean to the idea that TG hired an investment bank to sell shares and maybe, just maybe attach a lock-up period to it.
    I will add, IMO he has the financing...it just isn't announced. Too many other things lined up such as... mgt contract, building lease, etc.
    18 Apr 2013, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • Perhaps they sold a different class of shares?
    18 Apr 2013, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • " -Inventory is sold which bought another month or two"

     

    LT... My take for the past few weeks has been they may have an extra 1-2 months whether inventory was sold or not. So I won't be alarmed if we don't hear anything my month's end.
    18 Apr 2013, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    "So my question is, IF we were getting a partner, Why would we need an investment bank? "
    I asked more or less the same question a few days ago.

     

    I had to find it as I didn't want to misrepresent JP's answer.

     

    My comment:
    A Question
    If Axion has a strategic investor is an investment bank necessary?

     

    I've gotten into contracts where we hired an independent third party ti be an intermediary. I just don't know if Axion (or any small company) would do that with a strategic investor in the wings.
    Or should we be crossing out BMW etc. as investors for the raise?

     

    JP's answer
    "I don't see any way to predict who the investors might be. That makes it almost impossible to cross anyone off the list. We're in a period of infinite possibilities until Axion signs a deal and reduces the number of possible outcomes to one. "

     

    Apparently it doesn't mean; no strategic investor.
    Whether my suggestion of an independent third party is correct or something I am not aware of is the reason. An investment banker could be hired for a more limited role as an expert neutral third party.

     

    I can't seriously believe a normal funding is planned this late.
    If they have it signed it is a 'material event' and to my understanding must be disclosed.

     

    The only other thing I can think of is TG and the entire BOD have gone insane,

     

    Turn on Alfred E Newman font.
    What me worry?
    18 Apr 2013, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting blog on batteries for bike sharing program. Author thinks East Penn batteries are involved.

     

    http://bit.ly/Z6oZ5B
    18 Apr 2013, 02:29 PM Reply Like
  • The company you keep ...

     

    CARQUEST Announces 2012 Supplier Of The Year
    April 18, 2013

     

    http://bit.ly/Z6pht7

     

    "At its 2013 Supplier Summit, CARQUEST Auto Parts presented East Penn Manufacturing

     

    ...

     

    Each supplier is evaluated on several key areas: quality; driving sales; providing the right product, right place, right time and delivery of unparalleled customer service experience."
    18 Apr 2013, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • I think that 100K of ATDF we saw earlier at $0.2749 just went at $0.2602-$0.2605 14:06:54-14:28:47 ... exactly 100K shares in 7 trades.

     

    Can't be sure, but ...

     

    HardToLove
    18 Apr 2013, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • At this late juncture, I do not believe that we will have finance in place by month end. No normal corporation leaves it this late deliberately, therefore, I have to assume there are issues at stake that have not yet been resolved.
    Something tells me we may have to wait for closer to Memorial day, and deal with the going concern statement yet again
    18 Apr 2013, 02:35 PM Reply Like
  • General Motors to Offer Electric Car that Accepts DC as Well as AC Charge

     

    http://bit.ly/XIUuS7

     

    "A DC vehicle charger, such as those found in Nextek-designed microgrids, can deliver 50 kilowatts, which will bring the Spark to 80 percent charge in just 20 minutes"
    18 Apr 2013, 02:35 PM Reply Like
  • Wtb: Any suspicion that the heat from that process might be a problem? ISTM that's a lot of wattage and chemical activity going on in a short time and most generate heat as a by-product don't they?

     

    I don't know, just wondering.

     

    HardToLove
    18 Apr 2013, 02:54 PM Reply Like
  • BetaMax anyone?

     

    Interesting comment (not verified) on the NY Times article linked from the Nextek one:

     

    "It seems that you got many of the GM talking points about DC charging. That "Japanese standard" DC charging, called CHAdeMO, is actually the world standard, with 2500 chargers installed around the world, including almost 200 in the USA and 650 in Europe. There are 50,000 cars around the world using that standard. This year will add many, many more of both cars and charging stations.

     

    This new competing standard that GM is introducing with the Spark EV will only be used in the USA. No other USA car manufacturer, Ford, Chrylser/Fiat, nor 100% electric car manufacturer Tesla have any cars planned or announced for this new standard. In the entire USA, there are four of these new standard charging stations at manufacturer's technical centers and exactly one in the public, north of Phoenix, Arizona.

     

    Maybe GM can get the government of New York to endorse their competing standard, and the country will split with CHAdeMO on the west coast, and this new one in the east.

     

    Germany will use a different standard, even though they like to call it the same name. Neither of the two "Frankenplug" standards will be used in Japan. CHAdeMO, however, is the same throughout the world.

     

    Two other cars will be arriving in 2014 to the USA from offshore to use the GM promoted standard here, from BMW and VW. None of these cars are expected to sell in large numbers.

     

    The two largest battery electric vehicle manufacturers, Nissan and Tesla, do not use the Frankenplug, nor do they have plans to."
    18 Apr 2013, 04:10 PM Reply Like
  • Since I believe the signalling protocols are compatible physical plug adapters should allow vehicles to use different chargers. Tesla's can already use public J1772 chargers as well as superchargers.

     

    As for heating, 50kW's would only be 2C for a 25kWh pack, so not particularly stressful.
    18 Apr 2013, 09:54 PM Reply Like
  • Somebody is buying a lot of shares at .26. Some_____ is selling a lot of shares at .26.
    18 Apr 2013, 04:04 PM Reply Like
  • Kent, you make a good point. This is a time and point that I agree with JP's question.....it's not who's selling, but WHO is buying these shares,.....?

     

    I have been wondering this ever since .26 has held as a bottom for now.
    18 Apr 2013, 04:12 PM Reply Like
  • >LT ... It may seem like a lot of shares trading hands but is not near enough to exhaust the seller(s). There is far more interest in getting out of Axion than getting in. It might be nice to find out who is buying but I find it far more fascinating that sell quantities never runs low of inventory.
    18 Apr 2013, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • DRich: I'm not saying this is the case, but a single entity could have accounts at different brokers (or even different accounts at the same broker?) and be selling to itself. Only loss is transaction fees and can be used to drive price as low as one wants with no real loss.

     

    Later when price rises, even the transaction fees are offset, I'm sure, when shares are *really* sold.

     

    I guess if someone had some nefarious plans they could attempt this? I'd bet it's not legal. I'd also bet it's hard to detect.

     

    Small risk: some of the shares being churned may be picked up by folks not members of "the entity".

     

    TFH removed now.

     

    I hope/think the *buyer* is Carlos! :-)) Remember in the past he expressed an interest in opening a battery plant down there!

     

    Carlos! Is that you?! ;-))

     

    HardToLove
    18 Apr 2013, 05:40 PM Reply Like
  • Hi H.T. :

     

    I would like to buy, but now I have not the money. I agree someone is buying everything they sell at 0.26

     

    Have a good day-Carlos
    18 Apr 2013, 06:06 PM Reply Like
  • Whenever there is news pending, and this financing being critical, and .26 is holding solid....it just makes me quiver that someone is silently accumulating shares. Whether it be a takeover, or to use later on to sell into rallies, or whatever.
    18 Apr 2013, 06:26 PM Reply Like
  • A couple of Axionistas has said so. 3 posts I can think of in the last 2 weeks or so.
    I will make that 4. Courtesy of Tesla and being long options at the beginning of the month. :0.

     

    Even so about 3 million shares have traded this month.
    1mil from .27- .28. 2mil at .26
    I expect Axionistas can claim a significant but smallish fraction. Also the people they contact.
    For instance, my tax pro, asked me about stocks, which lead to Axion. While I warned her about the raise; it seemed like she would ignore, that part, of my advice.
    She is not the only one.
    I pick people who study first and send them to JPs articles.
    Interestingly, not one of my relatives has ever expressed interest in learning about any stock. Mostly they go to pros and say 'I'm in your hands'. and no they don't want to talk about it. They only one who does (Badly from what little I know of his history. Of course I an Axionista so what do I know? :-)) His eyes glaze over and he pulls out a book when I say "Battery" so the conversation ends there.
    So I'm safe in that regard. No angry relatives.
    18 Apr 2013, 07:23 PM Reply Like
  • Seems like some Axionistas are "getting small" in lieu of and/or anticipation of the next raise while others continue to accumulate.

     

    What if there is nothing going on other than the buying and selling of people on this blog? What if no one beyond the walls of this blog cares a hoot about this Lilliputian sized company?
    18 Apr 2013, 11:10 PM Reply Like
  • UnpredictableFutures, Thanks for this and all your prior in depth posts. I think I did well yesterday because I traded some pretty good blocks between 0.26 USD and 0.2602 USD.

     

    Where can we meet for a beer as I'm looking for some input on some obscure applications I'm thinking about?
    19 Apr 2013, 12:40 AM Reply Like
  • II
    ROFLMAO
    Succinctly put.
    19 Apr 2013, 09:54 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting article from Frank Sherosky yet not directly related to Axion. I've read his articles before as he's been a longer term holder of Axion which he mentions in this article he still holds.

     

    Poor guy. You'd think he'd get away from automotive after working in it so many years ( Oops, sorry about the last statement. I was looking in a mirror! :) )

     

    2013 SAE World Congress: Scuderi and investors still challenged

     

    http://bit.ly/Yy9IXy
    18 Apr 2013, 05:53 PM Reply Like
  • Nice find! Frank Sherosky is a good man to have as an axionista.

     

    "I fully understand investor anxiety; been there many times. That is why I teach patience with new technology acceptance, as it is par for the course."

     

    Here is Mr. Sherosky's 2011 article on AXPW:
    http://bit.ly/n45VUJ
    18 Apr 2013, 07:15 PM Reply Like
  • I find that his response to an investors concerns is similar to our own concerns about AXPW. Just having the better mousetrap is only the early innings portion.

     

    http://bit.ly/ZBmVPm
    19 Apr 2013, 01:51 AM Reply Like
  • T looking beyond VRLA. For SS it's dung.

     

    Track tricks could add mpg, cut hybrid cost

     

    "Another Toyota source said Toyota is researching the use of supercapacitors as an advanced stop-start system in developing markets, where it would cost less than the regenerative brakes currently used by most hybrid-battery systems to store energy."

     

    http://bit.ly/ZCG2aX
    18 Apr 2013, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • >iindelco ... Wouldn't it be cool if there was a supercapacitor that came with its own energy sink. A capacitor in combination with a battery in one unit. If only something like that was actually for sale. I've heard of such a thing but have never seen one being used in a product. Recently, I've been wondering what company is going to wind up producing such a device. I once thought I had an answer but I'm thinking now I could have been wrong.
    18 Apr 2013, 09:15 PM Reply Like
  • You were not wrong, DRich. Just early.

     

    D
    19 Apr 2013, 07:38 AM Reply Like
  • http://1.usa.gov/11JGlog

     

    http://bit.ly/ZwXpOn
    19 Apr 2013, 08:48 AM Reply Like
  • >D.McHattie ... I believe the PbC is a fabulous device and the development effort & story is even better. It has a long road ahead of it. The commercialization process has me scratching my head ... wondering.
    19 Apr 2013, 08:51 AM Reply Like
  • note well, those Lithium Ion Capacitor have the Activated Carbon at the Cathode (ie opposite electrode to where Axion PbC has its activated carbon)
    19 Apr 2013, 08:55 AM Reply Like
  • Is that cyclone engine that Frank mentions in the article anything that has been discussed here in terms of our NEXT investment opportunity, after AXPW goes though the roof? I'd love to get your sage perspectives.
    18 Apr 2013, 08:33 PM Reply Like
  • I have an open mind but IIRC, the issue with steam engines is ever and always the condenser. Thus I wonder how performance is impacted by hot weather...
    18 Apr 2013, 08:39 PM Reply Like
  • The article says they are going to the Bonneville salt flats with it this summer.
    Which would be a good catalyst and give it a pop.
    The web site says ready to start a commercial line soon. Which could be never.

     

    10 K just came out along with a shareholder letter, but I haven't looked at it yet.

     

    With an 8 cent a share price tag it's a possibility for a small shot.

     

    I stopped by brand X:
    I gather they got some funding.
    A basher is claiming the funding is at 30 +%.
    18 Apr 2013, 09:24 PM Reply Like
  • I read a few more comments a Long suffering long is saying he is out until he sees a video of a 'car doing donuts at 2MPH'?
    That a long way from ready for Bonneville.

     

    The basic energy efficiency improvement for cars is, they claim no need for a transmission.
    19 Apr 2013, 10:38 AM Reply Like
  • I'm certainly in the newbie category regarding these things, but the CYPW balance sheet is painful to look at. It gets me thinking about what JP has said about the importance of having great management, not just a great product, but I wonder what I'm missing. Is there a jem hidden in there somewhere?
    18 Apr 2013, 09:49 PM Reply Like
  • I think we have financing already with a 30 day VWAP set to end at (or close to) the end of the month and our .26 is holding rock solid (surprising really). I also believe we have another, more attractive deal in the works that could happen between now and then. However, as mentioned many times, I am the least knowledgeable among the Axionistas about such things...
    18 Apr 2013, 11:40 PM Reply Like
  • 30 day VWAP and .26 cents seem to be converging and hopefully there won't be too much of a haircut to the final averages when the news breaks.
    19 Apr 2013, 01:41 AM Reply Like
  • 20% would be close to the last raise. 30% discount would not be a surprise to me.
    19 Apr 2013, 08:31 AM Reply Like
  • TB, 10% discount on the 40 day...

     

    http://bit.ly/13vsBkT
    19 Apr 2013, 10:19 AM Reply Like
  • Yep. I am thinking 20% this time...
    19 Apr 2013, 10:23 AM Reply Like
  • $.242...

     

    What happened to $.25?
    19 Apr 2013, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • TB, Which would be around .23 by my calculations. Not much of a margin if you think you will get out and get back in again. Then again, if you have a pile of shares...
    19 Apr 2013, 10:45 AM Reply Like
  • TB: Traded that $0.25xx range 10:11-10:35:28, 74,135 shares. Went $0.24xx @ 10:35:40

     

    HardToLove
    EDIT: Added some info on time.
    19 Apr 2013, 10:55 AM Reply Like
  • Normal reaction to funding announcement would probably see a strong dip with the funding price acting as resistance. Last time we saw funding at $.35 and set a low soon after around the low $.20xx. Call it 30-40% reaction. At 30% from a funding at $.23 the stock could hit $.16 during the reaction period.
    19 Apr 2013, 10:57 AM Reply Like
  • Immediately after the .35 funding the stock stood around .42 for months following. It fell into the 20s at the end of the year because of lack of news, end of year selling, and of course funding concerns.

     

    My guess is that a share offering at .23 could support a stock at .30, and it'll be up to sales after that. There is no reason for the stock to be down this much were it not for the uncertainty.
    19 Apr 2013, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • Someone put in a market order sale. There were multiple sales from .259 down to .242 in a matter of seconds. Saw them flash by on my trade screen (think there were at least 4 prices - went fast and can't view history on my platform). Thank goodness the person putting in the market order didn't have more...
    19 Apr 2013, 07:16 PM Reply Like
  • UPF: Actual time from the first $0.2598 to first $0.242 was 10:11:02 to 10:35:40. Last $0.2590 before the flush down occurred at 10:26:27.

     

    So no matter which scale is used, "matter of seconds" is an exaggeration and a market-order was unlikely to be the proximate cause.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    20 Apr 2013, 07:01 AM Reply Like
  • we've got this. past fear and into danger, sally forth!
    18 Apr 2013, 11:56 PM Reply Like
  • I've been relatively quiet of late and recently bought a very small amount of AXPW for the hell of it. I am curious if there is anything behind Door Number Three beyond a one year supply of breakfast cereal.

     

    My reaction to TG's statement about receiving RFP's in the dozens was "huh?" I have written and won a lot of proposals. Usually anywhere from 1-3 proposals were serious, the rest who knows? When I was out to win a proposal we had our face very much in front of the customer. Yeah, you can't discuss the proposal you are bidding on, but you can talk about anything else. You want to build a relationship with the customer so they know who the hell you are and what you are capable of doing based on other related experience. When I went after something we "brought the house."

     

    So my question if I were suddenly running proposals at Axion would be "Yeah, that's a nice big stack of RFP's to consider, but what can we win and why?" I just don't believe Axion has "dozens" of proposals it can win. I think it was just more smoke like "300% YOY" and "We're fastening our seat belts!" Just MHO.

     

    As for the financing delay I see several possibilities. One is that TG has a deal he can get but that he doesn't want and he's trying to put something better together. Two is that he has a deal in general but with a ton of details to resolve and legal issues to be finalized on paper and it is just taking time to resolve everything - hopefully with no showstoppers, Three is that he doesn't have an acceptable deal yet and he is still trying to generate one.

     

    Lastly, I don't think BMW, NS or any other "end-user" is going to become a strategic partner with Axion. They just want to buy batteries, not a business.
    19 Apr 2013, 03:11 AM Reply Like
  • 04/18/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (up in ~1 hour?).
    # Trds: 31, MinTrSz: 80, MaxTrSz: 30000, Vol 295580, AvTrSz: 9535
    Min. Pr: 0.2600, Max Pr: 0.2625, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2604
    # Buys, Shares: 1 1970, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2600
    # Sells, Shares: 29 269610, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2602
    # Unkn, Shares: 1 24000, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.2625
    Buy:Sell 1:136.86 (00.67% “buys”), DlyShts 4500 (1.20%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 1.67%

     

    One trade today was a “buy”. Three of the last six days have had increasingly larger average trade sizes. We are still in a trend of increasing sizes, as evident on my chart. Today the average trade size is at the high side of what I consider to be typical retail range. This is explained by the following trades, all but the one priced at $0.2625 being “sells” and that one being “unknown”. All after 11:56 A.M.:
    $0.2600 10000, $0.2600 16920, $0.2602 22500, $0.2600 23030, $0.2600 23100, $0.2625 24000, $0.2602 24900, $0.2602 24900, $0.2605 25000, $0.2600 25000 and $0.2610 30000.

     

    These trades were 84.36% of the day's volume and 35.5% of the number of trades for the day. You can see this also explains the “buy” percentage being less than 1%. All but two trades “hit the bid”, representing 269,610 shares released into and taken from the market. Under this scenario I assume price was not a major factor in the sellers' decisions, continuing the trend we've been watching.

     

    The movement of bids and asks during the day were balanced with about half up and half down on both at the times I peeked.

     

    If I was doing good old traditional TA, which I'm not. I would be watching to see if this was “end of trend” suggested by the volume and long flat price trend. But in light of recent behavior, no such guess is forthcoming from me right now.

     

    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.

     

    HardToLove
    19 Apr 2013, 08:05 AM Reply Like
  • >H.T.Love ... Just a random firing neuron with a nagging question I don't know the answer to.

     

    I had some money in a REIT that had a "Wells Notice" issued. One Friday after market close an announcement was issued that a bridge loan was being finalized and the outcome looked good. By Monday morning before market open I was wiped out because BK had been processed Sunday evening (so they said but that felt 'fishy' to me). My fault for not knowing the debt situation and not paying attention closely enough but it has made me wary of going down to the wire. Axion is different because BK is seemingly not in the cards because of no debt.

     

    If (and only 'IF') the end of April melts into May with no news, does the attainment of the "Going Concern" date constitute a material event that requires some sort of company statement?
    19 Apr 2013, 09:13 AM Reply Like
  • DRich: "does the attainment of the "Going Concern" date constitute a material event that requires some sort of company statement? "

     

    Excellent question, for which I have no answer. However, to me logic dictates that unless they actually run out of operational capability, it's not a material event.

     

    That's based on thinking that the "going concern" statements are an anticipation of *possible* future events which, if they don't occur, need not be addressed.

     

    Raised capital, would of course, be material. Reducing expense, incoming revenue from business activity, ... ISTM would not be such.

     

    But that's *opinion* only on what I *think* is logical. I bet JP knows.

     

    HardToLove
    19 Apr 2013, 10:27 AM Reply Like
  • DRich> a Wells Notice is a letter notifying a company or individual that the SEC intends to commence an enforcement proceeding.

     

    http://bit.ly/11lkx2n

     

    It's the one document counsel never ever wants to see, unless he'll be hired as defense counsel. The issuance of a Wells Notice is a very bad thing and I can certainly see it might be a bankruptcy inducing event for a heavily leveraged REIT. Your prior experience has no bearing on Axion's situation.

     

    Axion's estimate of the fuse length on its financial resources was a forward looking statement when made and the passage of the date has no particular significance. A material change in operations in response to limited cash resources would probably be an 8-K event.

     

    Based on Axion's year-end financial statements it would be a very poor candidate for a bankruptcy because it has no significant debt to reorganize. Companies in Axion's position may curtail or even suspend operations, but they don't seek bankruptcy protection.
    19 Apr 2013, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • >H.T.Love ... Kinda my thoughts also. Just looking for corroboration. Just part of what is giving me this headache with this company.

     

    I know Mr. Granville likes to be 'close to the vest' and be quiet but I can't imagine this is doing any good. It isn't raising my esteem of management for the job at hand ... commercialization. I truly believe it is mainly a lack of communication and I'm not interested in the nitty-gritty detail. The last CC gave me nothing on this but it shouldn't have because it was about 2012.

     

    Unless the customer base knows a lot more than we do here, try to imagine the angst they feel after reading the latest SEC report and wondering if a critical component to their product is going to be available going forward. BMW ought to know the lay of the land and has options but ePower, NSC & others really don't. I know I wouldn't want to be unveiling a new whiz-bang product without knowing a critical component supply is or may not be secure. I also wouldn't put the PbC in consideration for new projects. All because of a need for financing which is a small in amount compared to the demonstrated potential markets or any indication of progress. The essence of the source of my questioning headache.
    19 Apr 2013, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • Maybe the answer to your question (and headaches by the way :))) is that simple: There is no financing YET!
    19 Apr 2013, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • >Amouna ... Always a possibility. I don't view that as a huge problem, if true. Worst case is Axion takes a holiday until current projects make a determination and business resumes. Everything is in place to get started with. There are just too many ways to present the product to the market to think that no interest exists.
    19 Apr 2013, 11:30 AM Reply Like
  • What about the contract MFG side, that will continue and scale back the PbC side? They have to be making something off of there labor, don't they?

     

    They can't keep quiet past Q1 earnings release.
    19 Apr 2013, 11:42 AM Reply Like
  • Agree DRich, although I would love things to go smoothly and delight shareholders for the first time in a very long time :)
    19 Apr 2013, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • >KentG ... I'm not the least bit worried Axion will go the way of the doo-doo. I'm ignoring the LAB contract and only focused on the PbC and its commercialization future. The 'tolling' contract will keep the doors open, lights on and possibly be subject to expansion. I understand they put out a high quality product.
    19 Apr 2013, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • DRich: High quality ... Yep. IIRC, zero returns!

     

    HardToLove
    19 Apr 2013, 11:58 AM Reply Like
  • DRich nails it. the future of SS and energy storage = PbC is some capacity. this board smells scared to me and this downside move is someone chumming the waters.
    19 Apr 2013, 12:00 PM Reply Like
  • Exactly my point, the doors won't be closing. No news here.
    19 Apr 2013, 12:01 PM Reply Like
  • >H.T.Love ... One of the scenarios I've been mulling over, which I know won't be popular here, is to strike up a deal with Exide Technologies (XIDE). Get them to cough up about $15M somehow to allow Axion to build a co-located, autonomous electrode line. That would give both companies a jolt they need and solve many problems with a single act. Exide could join the 21st century and Axion could get in the game with $5M of operating capital and a fab.
    19 Apr 2013, 12:07 PM Reply Like
  • DRich: I like the thought, being it would both be delicious as a sort of "revenge" and help AXPW. But we have to question Exide's participation as they seem to have made so many missteps in the past.

     

    Is it reasonable to think they have some new-found wisdom?

     

    I don't know.

     

    If I had my druthers it would be somebody that has an already-established OEM relationship stronger than that of Exide. But "druthers" is sort of like "hopium" I guess.

     

    HardToLove
    19 Apr 2013, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • >H.T.Love ... I think it is a legitimate scenario. My reason for picking Exide Technologies as example is that both companies are in need of doing something to show the markets & customers they mean to compete into the future. Personally, I'd like to see Enersys take and interest. East Penn would be OK but they are private and I can't participate in them and they have their UltraBattery investment.

     

    Exide would be my choice for the most upside I can imagine. Greed never takes a vacation.
    19 Apr 2013, 12:23 PM Reply Like