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  • Axion Power Concentrator 232: May 1: Axion Power On Panel At Energy Storage Economics 2.0 For New York City And Beyond 232 comments
    May 1, 2013 7:01 AM | about stocks: AXPW

    Latest News, Articles and Presentations...

    Axion Power on Panel at Energy Storage Economics 2.0 for New YOrk City and Beyond --

    The developer of advanced lead-carbon PbC® batteries and energy storage systems, announced its Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing, Vani Dantam, has been invited to participate as a panel expert on energy storage, at the upcoming AGRION event in NYC.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Axion Power's CEO Discusses Q4 2012 Results - Earnings Call Transcript

    Thomas Granville CEO: "We left the designation 'development stage company' in the dust in 2012 and there's no slowdown in sight."

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Axion Power Reports Results for 2012 --

    Chairman & CEO Thomas Granville commented, "Axion continued to make important strides in the fourth quarter, making 2012 a landmark year overall. Obviously our best year ever will be the first year when PbC revenue starts to show significant growth but it was a good step in that direction that we were able to recognize the first big PbC sale in the 4th quarter, to Norfolk Southern. This coincides with our first 10K filing without "development stage company" status. With our increase in sales, and more specifically sales of our core business product, we are now recognized as a commercial entity for filing purposes.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Axion Power Completes New Continuous Roll Carbon Sheeting Process

    "This is a giant leap forward for us and allows us to make a better product at a reduced cost," said Axion Power's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Thomas Granville. "It's the final step in automating our complete activated carbon negative electrode manufacturing process and it brings us tighter quality control, better production yields, meaningful production quantities and significant labor cost reductions..."

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Axion Power and EPower Engine Systems Inaugurate Strategic Alliance Using PbC Batteries in Hybrid Drivetrains for Class 8 Trucks

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dr. Ed Buiel, Axion's CTO until the end of 2010 -- A link to an archive of his comments on yadoodle about the PbC battery and much more. Invaluable commentary! Thanks to 481086 for putting the list together.

    Axion Power PbC Batteries Continue To Demonstrate Effectiveness For Railroad Applications -- Axion completed shipping its high-performance PbC batteries to Norfolk Southern Corp. (NYSE:NS), one of North America's leading transportation providers, for use in Norfolk Southern's first all electric locomotive - the NS-999.

    Axion Power Residential Energy Storage HUB Certified to UL, CSA Standards -- Axion receives UL certification and CSA Standards for their Residential Energy Storage HUB.

    "ePower's Series Hybrid Electric Drive - Unmatched Fuel Economy for Heavy Trucks" -- by John Petersen. Discusses the potential fuel savings for ePower's Hybrid electric drive for class 8 trucks using Axion's PbC batteries.

    "Axion Power - A Battery Manufacturer Charging Forward" -- by John Petersen. This is an excellent summation on Axion Power's history. It is a good starting point for introducing Axion Power to friends and family.

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    Axion Power Weighted Moving Average Prices and Volume:

    (updated through 4/26/2013)

    (click to enlarge)

    (click to enlarge)

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    Axion Power Monthly Volume versus FINRA Short Percentage:

    (by John Petersen)

    In late January I wrote an Instablog about the precipitous decline in reported FINRA short sales as a percentage of total trading volume. Over the last two weeks that trend has accelerated and the percentages for the month of February and the last four weeks are solidly in single digits. I view this graph as another confirmation of seller exhaustion. The big uglies are history and it looks like everybody who really wanted to sell already has.

    John Petersen's instablog here.

    (click to enlarge)

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    Axion Power Concentrator Comments:

    Over 50,000 comments!

    (click to enlarge)

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    Links to important Axion Power research and websites:

    The Axion Power Concentrator Web Sites, created by APC commentator Bangwhiz. It is a complete easy-to-use online archive of all the information contained in the entire Axion Power Concentrator series from day one, including reports, articles, comments and posted links.

    Axion Power Wikispaces Web Site, created by APC commentator WDD. It is an excellent ongoing notebook aggregation of Axion Power facts.

    Axion Power Website. The first place any prospective investor should go and thoroughly explore with all SEC filings and investor presentations as well as past and present Press Releases.

    Axion Power Intra day Statistics Tracking: HTL tracks and charts AXPW's intra-day statistics.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Be sure and either follow the Axion Power Host ID on Seeking Alpha or click the check-box labeled "track new comments on this article" just ahead of the comments section!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    WARNING: This is a troll free zone. We reserve the right to eliminate posts, or posters that are disruptive.

    Enjoy!

    Disclosure: I am long OTCQB:AXPW.

Back To Axion Power Host's Instablog HomePage »

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Comments (232)
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  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    Banzai!
    1 May 2013, 07:08 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1633) | Send Message
     
    Second :)
    1 May 2013, 07:13 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    You guys are quick on the trigger.
    1 May 2013, 07:27 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    Well, they say the Valley of Death ain't rightly no place for slowpokes pardner'.. ;)
    1 May 2013, 07:34 AM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (879) | Send Message
     
    It will be strange when the news goes from "NDA!" to "Axion Inside!"
    1 May 2013, 08:11 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    04/30/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (up much later).
    # Trds: 67, MinTrSz: 200, MaxTrSz: 101000, Vol 407902, AvTrSz: 6088
    Min. Pr: 0.2101, Max Pr: 0.2549, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2300
    # Buys, Shares: 39 244035, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2312
    # Sells, Shares: 25 155867, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2287
    # Unkn, Shares: 3 8000, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.2210
    Buy:Sell 1.57:1 (59.8% “buys”), DlyShts 21880 (5.36%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 14.04%

     

    Well, a good day for several reasons. First, it appears that the combination of the quarterly reporting announcement, apparent near exhaustion of the bigger sellers and low price encouraged investors and/or traders to buy as prices began to recover, being up as much as ~20% intra-day. Even with some typical late-day weakness and maybe at least one big seller (a 101K “buy” made from that seller at $0.23), we saw decent volume, decent buy:sell, decent activity in “negotiation” on the bid/ask and a close of +12.79%.

     

    Along with the 101K “buy”, we had a 50K “sell” at $0.24. These two order combined skewed several metrics. The average trade size without them would be 3,834, at the lower range of what I think is retail trading areas. The buy:sell would drop to 1.35:1 (55.7% “buys”) and my VWAP would hit $0.2281. But all this is just for a little context and doesn't change my view of a good day. One reason is ...

     

    I captured 24 peeks at changes in the bids and 16 looks at the asks. Nineteen bids were moves up, some due to one price level exhaustion uncovering hidden ones from a particular market-maker. Only 4 were moves lower. On the asks eight were up and 4 were moves lower. In aggregate, a nice change from so many recent days.

     

    The other thing that made it nice is that we got what I expected, which always gives me the “warm fuzzies”. Price rebounded to hit above $0.25 during the day and the evidence of big sellers was, at least temporarily, reduced. We still have someone either taking profits or cutting losses or ... but the daily short sales moved back down to what's been more common recently. Since I believed the spike in that during the last few days was linked to one particular seller, I think this says at least that one was not active today.

     

    Another “as expected” (or at least should've been) is topping at previous points of significance during down trends and during churn - $0.25 (12/29/11) , $0.253 (9/28/12), $0.252 (10/1/12), $0.255 (10/22/12, 4/2/13). This tells us that we do have some traders in the market. I'll be looking for signs of more investors in the market going forward.

     

    I'm running late, so I'll stop here and get this and the charts up in the instablog later today.

     

    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.

     

    HardToLove
    1 May 2013, 09:05 AM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    Coda we barely knew you.

     

    Electric-Car Maker Coda Files for Bankruptcy to Seek Sale
    http://bloom.bg/ZUJgw5
    1 May 2013, 09:10 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW): CDEL is very hopeful this A.M.: 09:31 enters a bid of $0.202x100K. They've got to see the 4 levels above them get eaten through to have a chance.

     

    HardToLove
    1 May 2013, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    According to Alexander Pope, hope springs eternal in the human breast.
    1 May 2013, 09:46 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1040) | Send Message
     
    One needs no further proof of this than Valence Tech (VLNCQ) which is 48% today.

     

    Reason for optimism: There is still no auction scheduled, and two IBs were hired in mid-Feb for strategic review on a 90 day contract. Founder owns something like 90% of the debt and 49% of the equity so the gossip on the penny boards is that the IBs will use A123s surprising sale to value a high valuation which they can use to sell to someone (JCI) and then equity will stay in the money vs cancelling the equity and debt holders will get 100%. Since I don't trust Berg, I assume equity becomes a zero, and debt gets 100% of the newly recap company of which he has 90% vs 50% before.
    6 May 2013, 05:26 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    A123 had a half billion dollar factory that went with the deal. Valence doesn't, but hope springs eternal I guess.
    6 May 2013, 05:38 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    I gave up on Valence in the 10 USD range years ago when they built a plant in Ireland and an assembly line without yet having a confirmed assembly process. Line never ran, plant shuttered.

     

    I'd have to say Valence is planning to continue in some fashion because I still see them listed as being present at a few battery related shows. But you have to wonder why Berg would not take it private in a restructuring given the time and money he has invested. You have to be a lawyer specializing in the area to know what the outcome will be. Me, I just question what they might have that nobody else has in a lithium ion market that will have too much capacity for years. I can't think of anything other than a sugar daddy that's getting tired of the game.
    6 May 2013, 06:30 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    Maybe this is ePower's next retrofit kit a few years down the road, when the Capstone C370 is available. 16-page PDF linked in this comment about Kenworth's engineering guy involved with three micro-turbine companies and the testing.

     

    Be pretty cool if KW did all the debugging for *new* and ePower could piggy-back into the retro-fits.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    1 May 2013, 10:02 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4670) | Send Message
     
    >H.T.Love ... As long as both use a certain battery, I've heard might exist, to boost acceleration power & recoop brake energy ... throw in a UQM motor (or two) ... yeah, it would be pretty cool.
    1 May 2013, 10:31 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1038) | Send Message
     
    Yay, almost back to my original cost basis. I wonder what's up? I can only hope it is news of a financing deal.
    1 May 2013, 10:36 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    NGS: I think the announcement of the quarterly reporting 5/16 just relieved all sorts of worries. This is like a relief rally I guess. The changes in b/a I'm seeing this A.M., along with early-day "weakness" rather than the usual "late-day" weakness, makes me thing a bunch of traders grabbed some near the bottom and are now following their "rules" about exit points. If so, I would think they'd be out of market in just a few days and the true investors that aren't yet in, or want to add, will drive the price.

     

    I can see $0.29 being possible before the quarterly, maybe even $0.30, depending on ...? Do investors hold or peel some off?

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    1 May 2013, 11:19 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1038) | Send Message
     
    HTL: my 2-cents: no way do we get anywhere near 0.30 before 5/16 unless it comes with news of successful financing. Already back down 2 cents from the high today. Probably just a suckers rally.
    1 May 2013, 03:47 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    NGS: Suckers? Could be. But still up 10.51% from yesterday's close.

     

    Volume back into normal ranges, sellers much slower to lower asks today and yesterday, bidders quicker to come up *until* the sellers start showing weakness.

     

    Evidence of big sellers still not appearing - just the normal (traders?) on ATDF mostly. Did have a 98K offer I mentioned earlier, but at a relatively high price.

     

    But I've been wrong before and will be again.

     

    HardToLove
    1 May 2013, 03:55 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    NGS, I'm not going to prognosticate where we are going next unless you want better than even odds by doing the opposite of what I guess. One thing we sure as heck can say is what a difference a couple days make. I sure hope some of the Axionista's among us were not overly shaken by the 400k thingy or the talk of a digital life to death discussion. But then I'm happy for those of us that got to put some green to work so I guess it's all part of the game.
    1 May 2013, 04:22 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1538) | Send Message
     
    iindelco: Didn't you buy the intraday low last time? And if so, did you get the intraday low from a couple of days ago?
    1 May 2013, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Occam's_Razor, I bought a few blocks but none of them was near the low this time. Bought a few in the .23's, .21's, .2050's, .21's and .22's. Didn't want to spend it all at once because I had no idea if we'd get even more tied up in the "Fear Factor". Last buy had me high and dry for cash. Even had to sell some stuff in other areas prematurely to play the game as long as I did. And yes, I was questioning my sanity. It's an Axionista thing.

     

    I did have to take a little off the table yesterday and today because I hate having zero dry powder as you always want to take advantage of opportunities. I can assure you it's not because I think it's overvalued but as we just saw, how things are valued often comes with a ton of head scratching.

     

    As John pointed out, "Triple bottoms...."

     

    PS Now you just jinxed me because we will probably open at 0.18. Oh, That's right, I have some dry powder.

     

    And BTW, Don't ask me about all the dumb moves I've made over the years. We're not gonna live that long for a full accounting. :(
    1 May 2013, 05:09 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1538) | Send Message
     
    My lowest low was .205 I doubt I can beat that.... nor do I want to!
    1 May 2013, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1538) | Send Message
     
    iidelco: As JP said a little while ago. Grab your peanuts and popcorn now.... this thing hasn't even begun to get interesting!
    1 May 2013, 05:47 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Occam's_Razor, I look at it this way. If I was willing to buy this in the 30's and 40's over the last few years and nothing has changed other than the product / process are developed and the applications targeted with their partners are far more refined, Why the heck wouldn't I be willing to invest more in the 20's? Yes there is a capital crunch but they have a fully developed product/process, not perfectly refined in either case but fully developed. And they have no debit. So I have to go back to my original reason for investing and say, What did I expect? Yes I'd like more sales and for TG to hit the targets he's eluded to. But it's been up until recently an R&D company. And in fact in some of the applications it's targeting they still are R&D. Late stage but R&D none the less.

     

    Look at all the other R&D companies in this sector that promise the world and fade away. In lithium ion a s*&t ton of promises and most are gone. These guys made promises and were late in some areas. How late? Who cares? They have something that scales now. I'll wait to see the river cards on this one. I think the market is illogical or bluffing.
    1 May 2013, 06:07 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1633) | Send Message
     
    God bless the action in AXPW market for the past two days. I would love to see it last for a month...:)
    1 May 2013, 10:39 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    Reminds me of y2k. All this panic and paranoia about a single date and when that date arrives and the world doesn't end, euphoria.

     

    D
    1 May 2013, 10:45 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1040) | Send Message
     
    I really think part of the problem on Monday was the strange quotes on many broker feeds. I am still seeing it today and I've been able to find it on a few other random OTC stocks (but not all).
    1 May 2013, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    Found an error in the PR from yesterday and emailed Rudy Barrio/ Chuck Trego.

     

    "existing lead-carbon battery production lines throughout the world"
    1 May 2013, 11:16 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    Rudy said he would look into how it got changed after it was released. The WSJ and DJNF have it correctly but Axions web site and another one I read were wrong (can't find it now). Rudy said he would get the web site version corrected (the web site automatically picks it up from a news feed).
    1 May 2013, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    Has this been posted? Haven't read it yet.

     

    "Xtreme Power to Sell Battery Factory, Focus on Software

     

    10-year warranties for grid batteries are hard for startups—but software makes sense."

     

    http://bit.ly/ZzOlsT
    1 May 2013, 11:22 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    KentG,
    Yes, IINDelco posted it earlier this month when it originally came out. But it never hurts to read things again. We forget a lot of things because of the shear volume of information on this concentrator.
    1 May 2013, 11:39 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    LabTech, it made me smile.
    1 May 2013, 11:42 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2139) | Send Message
     
    LabTech,
    I like your reason for forgetting things better than mine (getting older sucks).;-)
    1 May 2013, 06:20 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Stilldazed, Beats the alternative but yes, in many regards it stinks. ;)
    1 May 2013, 06:58 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Invenergy to test out GE’s Brilliant wind turbine with integrated battery storage

     

    "GE points out that the 2.5-120 is the first wind turbine to incorporate short-term battery storage as part of the complete turbine package. Integrating the battery into the wind turbine allows wind farm operators to reap the benefits of energy storage without the high costs of farm-level battery storage installation. This design integrates GE’s advanced Durathon Battery technology with three software applications."

     

    http://bit.ly/18cNS2E
    1 May 2013, 11:32 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1368) | Send Message
     
    Looks like a winner, depending on the cost. Anyone have any thoughts on how the PbC would compare to the Durathon in a similar application. I know that the Durathon is an energy battery while the PbC is best for power. For FR, it seems that the PbC would have an advantage?

     

    From the article:
    "Wind developers and operators can select the application or combination of applications that best suits individual site needs, as follows:

     

    Ramp Control: Today, when wind speed increases quickly, the grid cannot always absorb the extra wind power produced. GE’s Ramp Control App allows the brilliant turbine to capture “wasted” wind power and store it in the battery, meaning operators can capture revenue previously left on the table.
    Predictable Power: Power producers must be able to provide consistent and predictable power to the grid, but the variability of wind can make smooth grid integration challenging. The Predictable Power App allows the brilliant turbine to smooth out the short-term peaks and valleys in wind power and make it predictable over periods of 15-60 minutes.
    Frequency Regulation: Power demand changes throughout the day, and grid operators must keep up with its constant fluctuation. Grid operators look to power producers to respond rapidly to keep the grid balanced. The Frequency Regulation App allows wind farms to store energy in the battery and respond immediately to load changes with ultimate precision.
    1 May 2013, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    Our friend apmarshall62 has spent a couple days working on a cost spreadsheet for the PbC that tries to estimate per unit numbers based on everything we know about the battery industry and Axion's production economics. While the numbers are probably on the high side, they're certainly within the realm of reason and far better than the analysis we see from starry-eyed optimists who start with silliness and then factor in undefined "economies of scale" assumptions.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    1 May 2013, 11:38 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1368) | Send Message
     
    The "Green Fleet of the Year" is using APUs to reduce idle time and save $.
    I would love to hear about progress on this front from Axion:
    http://bit.ly/13Mk1e9
    JBS Carriers’ Horvath noted that the installation of auxiliary power units (APUs) on its sleepers as a greening initiative has paid dividends for the company’s bottom line and its drivers since they were installed in 2012.

     

    “The heating and cooling units give our drivers an opportunity to have a better environment, both in cold and hot weather,” he explained. “As a result, the idle time of our sleeper fleet has dropped by more than 10% and the units have created a positive experience for our drivers.”

     

    JBS Carriers outfitted 16 tractors with APUs in 2012, resulting in a 16% drop in fuel consumption by increasing MPG performance by almost a mile. These improvements in fuel economy produced savings of more than $9,400 per year per truck. Currently, 267 of the company’s 760-tractor fleet have been outfitted with APUs; more are due to come online in 2013.

     

    “The APUs go to driver well-being, showing that you care about the driver as much as the cargo you’re shipping,” Cameron Bruett, director of sustainability and corporate communications for JBS Carriers, pointed out.

     

    Along with improving fuel economy through the use of APUs, JBS Carriers also achieved savings by outfitting its trailers with side skirts and switching to low-rolling resistance tires. The company has also improved fuel usage through a fuel-optimization software program that chooses the best route based on mileage and fuel price. The software also enables JBS Carriers to offer drivers quarterly bonuses based on MPG savings.
    1 May 2013, 12:10 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    "ZBB Energy to Participate on Panel at AGRION Energy Storage Economics 2.0 for New York City and Beyond"

     

    http://mwne.ws/130j4zS

     

    "announced today that Dan Nordloh, ZBB Energy Executive Vice President - Global Business Development, has been invited to participate as a panel expert on energy storage at the upcoming AGRION event in New York."

     

    No mention of him anywhere else for Agrion 2.0 that I could find just like Vani.
    1 May 2013, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    The Agrion website has HG Chissel from Viridity as the moderator of a round-table discussion and my bet is that Chissel is in charge of picking his panelists instead of having Agrion do it directly.
    1 May 2013, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW): CDEL sneaks a $0.28x98K offer into the mix.

     

    HardToLove
    1 May 2013, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • Pztrick44
    , contributor
    Comments (83) | Send Message
     
    Does anyone find the Thursday CC (5/16 AM) promising (as opposed to Friday)?
    1 May 2013, 02:36 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Pztrick, It is my opinion that it's better than other times that might have been selected but Axion has not shown much of a preference in announcement or cc timing other than to make sure everyone can digest it before trading starts. I think this is fair.
    1 May 2013, 02:57 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Pztrick44,

     

    I don't, but that's just because I have a large experiment planned for that day. I'll have to listen to the CC on playback later that evening. Looking forward to reading everyone's comments on it when I get home from the lab and put the kids to bed.
    1 May 2013, 03:16 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    The earnings should be released on Wednesday 5-15 after market close. This is as usual.
    1 May 2013, 03:31 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    I wonder which stock will be higher EOD 5-16, XIDE or AXPW?
    1 May 2013, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    KentG,
    I can still hope that both will skyrocket on that day with the announcement that Exide has agreed to produce up to 1.5 million PbC batteries/year, on its new AGM line that was just put into production last year, and that Exide has also entered into an agreement to invest enough capital in Axion to allow for expansion of multiple electrode lines to equal the number of electrodes needed for full battery capacity on Exide's line. Yes, I know, it's not going to happen, but it is what was "supposed" to have happened before Exide got greedy.
    1 May 2013, 04:20 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    Labtech: "... number of electrodes needed for full battery capacity"

     

    -> "number of electrodes needed for full satisfaction of an OEM contract they've garnered"? ;-))

     

    Not likeley though.

     

    HardToLove
    1 May 2013, 04:29 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    HTL,
    I wrote it the way I did assuming that Exide would pay to prepare the New Castle plant to fully utilize Exide's AGM line. I am not assuming that OEM orders will have ramped to 1.5 million overnight, but once Axion can show that they have the capacity to make enough electrodes for that many batteries, it becomes easier for th OEMs to plan production of their equipment to use that many. I assume most OEMs aren't going to plan for use of capacity until Axion can prove they can reach it.
    1 May 2013, 04:57 PM Reply Like
  • f-kru
    , contributor
    Comments (263) | Send Message
     
    Just came across this spec sheet in a random google search, don't know if this has been posted yet: http://bit.ly/15a7vd6
    I would really like to know what the cost of this system might be.
    1 May 2013, 04:21 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    f-kru, I hope it is cheaper now then when this was produced 15 months ago.

     

    I want one someday.
    1 May 2013, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    IIRC Rosewater was planning to charge $45,000 for the Residential Hub, but I'm confident that they have some wiggle room in the price.
    1 May 2013, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • MitchS
    , contributor
    Comments (47) | Send Message
     
    f-kru,
    Good find. The block diagram on sht. 3 seems to confirm that Indy Power Systems is indeed supplying the electronics for the Hub, as others have speculated here. They may be the ultimate manufacturer of it, based on their capabilities and expertise listed on their web site.

     

    It's interesting to compare the spec. sheet you found with the 'production' specs on Rosewater's site:
    http://bit.ly/RXDm9k
    2 May 2013, 10:09 AM Reply Like
  • f-kru
    , contributor
    Comments (263) | Send Message
     
    Ah, I see. This actually is the spec sheet for the Rosewater hub. Makes sense, but for some reason I was under the impression it was another system. Maybe because it has the Axion Power logo on it, not Rosewater's. $45,000 is a hefty price, but the components are probably top notch.
    1 May 2013, 04:56 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (658) | Send Message
     
    The 45,000 dollar price tag was before the tremendous labor savings on the carbon roll process.
    1 May 2013, 05:05 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    Until somebody quotes a new price I'd be reluctant to guess at how much of the cost savings will flow through to the retail price of a product.
    1 May 2013, 05:43 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    remember there's only 24 PbC batteries in the residential hub... so of that $45K, only about $10K is for the batteries...
    1 May 2013, 05:49 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1368) | Send Message
     
    48, very good point
    1 May 2013, 08:30 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1633) | Send Message
     
    At the same time, no one knows how many sales have been made by Rosewater. All we can do is speculate...
    2 May 2013, 07:15 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    May 1st and still no announcement on the winner of the contract for the RFPI request for 12VDC SS development at USCAR. Must be there are not a bunch of companies with tech. that's just dripping with metrics that come close to meeting their dream.

     

    http://bit.ly/YLx1ke
    1 May 2013, 07:20 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    My new shortened (for now) experimental buy:sell charting instablog is available.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    2 May 2013, 08:33 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    05/01/2013: EOD stuff partially copied copied from NEW instablog (up now).
    # Trds: 44, MinTrSz: 100, MaxTrSz: 26466, Vol 301628, AvTrSz: 6855
    Min. Pr: 0.2400, Max Pr: 0.2795, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2585
    # Buys, Shares: 21 114097, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2610
    # Sells, Shares: 23 187531, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2570
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:1.64 (37.8% “buys”), DlyShts 32500 (10.77%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 17.33%

     

    Well, things are starting to normalize: no outrageously large trades today; only one large offer seen (CDEL ask $0.28x98K entered around 13:00); average trade size (even with no really large ones) is right at the middle-high range of what I think is retail and the trend should start to flatten out from its rise now; buy:sell starting to work more consistently in normal ranges; daily shorts a little higher than recent trend, but not excessively so; volume is moving back closer to recent norms.

     

    Interesting: the high was exactly at the 50-day SMA; the mid-range of the day was $0.2598, the VWAP and our close ($0.261) both near there, normal behavior in many ways; of 13 bids checked during the day there were 7 increases and 3 decreases while the 20 asks checked included 4 increases and 15 decreases (started at 10:28 and continued predominately down throughout the day – very normal behavior); two consecutive days of higher highs and lows; closed above my medium-term descending resistance – another close above would confirm a break out, especially if volume remains near recent norms.

     

    My original inflection point calculations are in disarray, but showing the ending of weakening. My newer version is giving signals that there is more than that going on – the earliest hints that a move up may be in progress have appeared, but it will take a few days to see if the pattern completes.

     

    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.

     

    HardToLove
    2 May 2013, 08:34 AM Reply Like
  • Lloyd Hanlin
    , contributor
    Comments (24) | Send Message
     
    If I speculate why TG is keeping stockholders in the dark I would say it's for the same reason he is not taking any requests from potential customers for their requirements. They are too busy getting present potential customer requirements together, understanding that he will be forgiven when the public recognizes AXPW's value.

     

    The new position Axion is now creating includes responsability of smoothing the way to consider prospective clients wishes Axion was too busy to handle previously. This could mean they are up to speed making the transition from R&D to sales.

     

    As I recall, TG stated he had 5 or 6 battery companies lined up to produce under its own label. Also that it would only take about 3 months for Axion to set up another production line.
    2 May 2013, 08:42 AM Reply Like
  • JohnM121
    , contributor
    Comments (408) | Send Message
     
    I am not aware that there are battery companies lined up to build pbc. But the vision all along is that electrodes could be provided to battery manufacturing companies to build the end product using their existing production lines.
    My speculation is that if a major European OEM is to use Axion PBC, there will be a pbc electrode line built in the region of the battery assembly plant. If a stock sale to raise cash is complex, imagine how complicated an agreement an OEM would require to spend a $Billion developing a vehicle around a technology owned by a microcap,
    2 May 2013, 11:31 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    JohnM, While it is always harder to develop vehicle platforms to utilize technology that has not been commoditized it is not impossible and automotive concerns do it all the time. The most important step is to make sure that the product can be built in a manner that supports the requirements of the application at the required QUALITY level.

     

    Along with the quality requirement it is obvious that COST is a factor to be dealt with. The autos will go into the supplier and do a Value Chain Assessment. (http://bit.ly/17zH1iH). Since they know AGM it's easier in the case of Axion because much of the PbC battery, other than the negative electrodes and how they are integrated has been scaled. That's why I've said in the past that BMW and others will understand Axion's cost structure once they are scaled better than Axion will.

     

    Finally they will assure DELIVERY. You are right that their long term vision would be to have the tier one supplier working with Axion build in their markets. And that's why I expect a partner with auto experience if Axions to gain acceptance in the industry. Axion is just too small. But this is not something that the industry has not dealt with before. They will nurture what they need and we've been witness to that.

     

    The little I've talked about above is just to give some directional flavor for what needs to be managed. All this can be managed over the duration and magnitude of the industries needs with the right development plans, partnerships, launch plans, contracts, alternative technology plans etc. In the end the partner, with it's scale will most probably bear the brunt of the responsibility of the program. Axions small size can be managed performance requirements that allow the partner access to more control should Axion fail to meet certain requirements that might put the partner and thus the customer at risk.

     

    Just a little flavor to show some of the activities that allow large companies to nurture what they need and lock it up so it's under their control. They cannot afford to hand Axion a gun and cower to their wishes. These are all really a symbiotic relationships in many cases but sometimes not so. You have to be very very careful to make sure you're guarding your interests while your partners do the same.
    2 May 2013, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (1027) | Send Message
     
    Great description Indelco, thanks!
    2 May 2013, 12:59 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Fidelity is showing bid/ask lined up at .2601/.2600. First time in a long time I've seen the two with no spread. We'll see if that changes before the open.

     

    HTL, What's your crystal ball sayin' for Christmas 2016? Since you're doing so well I gotta' ask! ;))

     

    Edit: Yep it changed. Bid is now .2410. Darn I wanted to see how that played out!
    2 May 2013, 09:19 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: not only are TEJS and NITE crossing on the bid/ask, but we have a lot of asks that used to be apprent GTC orders that are not there today. Second best ask, $0.2648 is followed by $0.40 - missing a bunch of $0.28xx-$-.33 incremental asks. Bids a little sparse too, but not missing as many.

     

    The crystal ball says "Data not available because you will be on an island in the sun long before that time".

     

    HardToLove
    2 May 2013, 09:27 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the level 2 info HTL.

     

    Oh, and the early morning smile as well! :)
    2 May 2013, 09:41 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    CDEL bids $0.202x100K, but far down the stack and ATDF and NITE, both usually very aggressive on the bid, ahead of CDEL. But CDEL often sees higher and aggressive bid-pushing too.

     

    HardToLove
    EDIT: CDEL on the ask too $0.28x98K. Someone manipulating or playing both sides?
    2 May 2013, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • Milhouse
    , contributor
    Comments (361) | Send Message
     
    10:30 AM Electric vehicle roundup: 1) Chevrolet Volt sales disappointed by falling 11% Y/Y to trail the Nissan Leaf and Tesla Model S, but GM thinks the Chevrolet Spark EV will fill a gap in the market. 2) Nissan did sell 1,937 Leaf vehicles in April, but at what cost? Major price reductions on the model during the quarter have been reported. 3) As if Elon Musk doesn't create enough buzz for Tesla Motors via his Twitter account, now Bloomberg is upping the ante by throwing out the idea in a speculative article that Apple should buy the automaker.
    2 May 2013, 10:33 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Here's some of the chronology of the Leaf price reductions in OZ. Early adopters paid for their status. Not uncommon.

     

    Nissan wants turnover from new Leaf

     

    http://bit.ly/162DfAu
    2 May 2013, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4670) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... Nissan wants turnover? Kinda like mulch?
    2 May 2013, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    DRich, Yeah. If you turn over "Leaf's" they make mulch much faster. Carlos Ghosn would love to sell you raw material for mulch much faster. He has lots of capacity, unfortunately.
    2 May 2013, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Here's a time lapse video of a Leaf being built for those who have never been in an auto assy plant.

     

    Nissan Leaf time-lapse shows the EV being built

     

    http://aol.it/15bT1tf
    2 May 2013, 10:55 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: That was fun, but got to go nap now - all that frenetic activity wore me out! :-))

     

    HardToLove
    2 May 2013, 11:28 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    For those who haven't seen the inside of one of the labs at Axion, here are a series of pictures taken on Career Day at what I assume is a local college...

     

    http://on.fb.me/10576jm
    2 May 2013, 11:55 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Nice find Tim.

     

    I was hoping it would have been the other plant. Me and a couple well versed on computers Chinese nationals working for a LAB builder there! :-O
    2 May 2013, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2656) | Send Message
     
    Nice find indeed! I enjoy seeing the picture of real people working at the plant.
    2 May 2013, 12:56 PM Reply Like
  • WDD
    , contributor
    Comments (60) | Send Message
     
    The photos are recent, tagged 2013.

     

    It seems to me that I would not invite a career-day group to tour my facility if we had turned down the thermostat, unscrewed half of the light-bulbs, and warned the folks on the floor that we had to cut their hours.

     

    Full-speed ahead!
    2 May 2013, 02:06 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1040) | Send Message
     
    Nice find Tim. According to Google the students are from Westminster College about 8 miles away.
    2 May 2013, 03:55 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1040) | Send Message
     
    It really is amazing to see all the steps that go into what makes a car. Its amazing when you see how many other plants/suppliers pop up next to an automotive factory.
    2 May 2013, 12:02 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Mr. Holty, My initial thoughts when I walked into my first plant was "Holy *&^%". Small town boy meets large scale manufacturing. It gives you a real sense of appreciation as to what can be accomplished with social structures that allow talent from all over the world with diverse backgrounds to create "Stuff". The imagination to reality thing.
    2 May 2013, 12:32 PM Reply Like
  • billa_from_sf
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    I once worked for a company in San Diego that designs and builds satellite modems.

     

    They employ every kind of engineer you could imagine: digital designers, RF engineers, software, firmware, mechanical packaging, hardware test, software test, firmware test, manufacturing engineers, process engineers, RF test, manufacturing test, program managers, marketing engineers, sales engineers.

     

    An idea in someone's mind ultimately goes out the door as a box that enables you to bounce a radio signal from one ground station to another off a satellite.

     

    Amazing cross-disciplinary communication and teamwork.
    2 May 2013, 03:20 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Billa, Invested in Hughes and Loral for years. Hughes, of course, was parted out and the satellite division is now a BA division. Still own a little Directv which was also a Hughes division.

     

    Don't recall where Hughes, Loral, Orbital Systems and LMT satellite divisions were all located but I know Hughes was HQ in your neck of the woods.

     

    So you were on a team designing the modems for the transponders? Good stuff! If it's up in geosynchronous orbit you're not going to be sending a repairman that's for sure! :)
    2 May 2013, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • Lloyd Hanlin
    , contributor
    Comments (24) | Send Message
     
    121

     

    You are probably right. My memory does come from wishful thinking at times. I will try to take a look back
    2 May 2013, 12:15 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1368) | Send Message
     
    http://bloom.bg/105b0Zn
    Consolidated Edison Inc. (ED), owner of the utility that supplies power to New York City, next year will test a battery system from Eos Energy Storage LLC as part of a state-funded research program.

     

    Eos will install one of its zinc-air batteries with 36 kilowatt-hours of storage capacity at a Con Edison facility in New York City, according to Philippe Bouchard, the closely held company’s director of business development. The project will be Eos’s first to provide backup power on the electrical grid and precedes larger installations planned with Con Edison, other utility owners and independent power producers, Bouchard said today in a telephone interview.
    2 May 2013, 12:40 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    Thanks D. Here is a link to Eos. Was wondering how the PbC compares?

     

    http://bit.ly/10Z5leM

     

    2kw/12kwh? High energy, right?
    2 May 2013, 12:53 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    High energy with very low power. It can be used for diurnal storage but has no real utility in high value applications like FR and renewables smoothing.
    2 May 2013, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Here's the entire list of award winners with the respective amounts and applications.

     

    NYSERDA Awards $1.4 Million to Six NY-BEST Members to Develop Advanced Energy Storage Technologies

     

    http://bit.ly/133sx8N
    2 May 2013, 06:34 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1368) | Send Message
     
    Thanks John!

     

    Speaking of renewables smoothing, this is from GTM regarding the latest on solar storage:

     

    "In addition to concerns about the economic impact of PV, there have also been concerns about the perceived technical impacts of PV on the grid. In our "From Grid-Tied to Grid-Integrated PV" session, panelists from leading PV inverter companies highlighted the slow and inconsistent development of grid integration standards, which can result in higher testing and operating costs. Quickly learning from painful lessons in Germany and Italy, inverter manufacturers are shipping product with advanced grid interactive features like ride-through, remote on/off, and reactive power latent in expectation of forthcoming requirements and standards. In the most stringent regimes like Puerto Rico, significant amounts of storage have been required. However, the overall outlook for storage-based distributed PV systems appears to be mixed, with inverter manufacturers expressing reservations about the growth in storage and commercial PV developers indicating various non-traditional storage applications to secure old and capture new revenue streams."
    http://bit.ly/10uXPkr
    2 May 2013, 01:15 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Currently Exide is carrying only twice the market cap of Axion. Wow.

     

    Looks like it's trying to establish a base though.
    2 May 2013, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1038) | Send Message
     
    Well, I found the cusip. They are yielding over 19% at present! Unfortunately, it seems Scottrade will only give me access to bonds rated Baa/BBB or higher.
    3 May 2013, 09:33 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1040) | Send Message
     
    NoGood-

     

    You should find a different broker or atleast contact them to see if you can change something to be able to purchase a range of bonds. Its your money.

     

    I bought a few. Please be aware that this debt is second in line behind the bank debt. As John said in a few concentrators ago you don't hire Lazard without reason. That said I think they will be ok if Europe stabilizes. If not and they file I still think buying at 70% of face is a pretty good risk/reward.
    3 May 2013, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    NGS, Yeah but they will let you buy the stock correct? So how's that working for capital preservation? Artificial rules.
    3 May 2013, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1038) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, I need to look into it more. It seems to me that, if they go Ch 11, there should be enough assets to pay the bank debt and have a good chunk of the company left over for the bond holders to take. I don't think I would own the common stock these days, though. I sold all mine last summer.
    3 May 2013, 10:02 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    NGS, could you share the CUSIP?
    3 May 2013, 10:32 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1840) | Send Message
     
    You need to call the branch to buy junk bonds. I've done it before through Scottrade.
    3 May 2013, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1038) | Send Message
     
    Anyone know the cusip for Exide senior bonds? They must be yielding quite a bit these days?
    2 May 2013, 04:33 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1038) | Send Message
     
    sure. The cusip is 302051AQ0
    3 May 2013, 12:00 PM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (738) | Send Message
     
    The comment flow sure has dropped over the last few days.

     

    I'm traveling around and so cannot log on as often as I normally would but the time to read the comments is a matter of minutes rather than in some cases the best part of the hour.

     

    I did do a nibble at $0.25 but only to clear up some small change in an old brokerage account.

     

    Having said that I have been thinking about where we are headed. The company is openly traded and its been a huge "blessing" to us newcomers in terms of OPPORTUNITY. Despite negative comments from trolls and supposed shareholders like JRambo there is a huge number of commenters that are very positive on where the company is positioned and the impending commercialization of the PbC battery and its associated BMS.

     

    The thought that comes to me is that why should the company remain public? Its current market cap is only $29Million. Apparently the company is, to use a theatrical theme awaiting in the wings for its queue. We have an understanding that there is cash required to continue operations but that the commercialization is very close. And that those who want to partner with Axion may well pay for the expansion of the electrode production capabilities.
    Why not take Axion private once a strong partner is signed on, let the company grow for a couple of years and then relaunch at hopefully a major improvement in the share price?
    2 May 2013, 04:34 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1633) | Send Message
     
    Some of the substantial shareholders from the days of Mega-C will most likely veto against taking the company private. It sure sounds like a topic that could be raised at a board meeting, but the odds of it is pretty slim. IMHO
    2 May 2013, 04:43 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Albert, Hope you are enjoying your journey! ;)

     

    John can probably address this better than I and has answered me in the past when I was worried about this when we had a more concentrated base of holders. I think that concern, if it was ever really valid, has been rectified with the exit of the big uglies.
    2 May 2013, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    "For a price, Ugarte. For a price."
    2 May 2013, 05:12 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    48, ;)

     

    http://bit.ly/122aGh1
    2 May 2013, 05:42 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    You can't make this stuff up. 8-P (Well yeah ya can because the author did!)

     

    BYD Launches Electric Bus Plant With Call for Utility Rate Redesign

     

    "The 40-foot ebus, which will seat 40 and carry up to 60, will likely cost approximately $800,000 per unit, Austin said. It will have a minimum 150-mile-per-charge range, but has registered 235 miles on a charge when running without air conditioning and with frequent enough stops and starts for the regenerative braking to significantly extend range."

     

    http://bit.ly/YpM1pu
    2 May 2013, 04:36 PM Reply Like
  • MitchS
    , contributor
    Comments (47) | Send Message
     
    Hah--while I would love to see buses converted such that we don't have to hear and smell their diesel engines, I don't understand the claim that starting and stopping will extend the range--doesn't that violate the first and/or second laws of thermodynamics (maybe that's what you were getting at iindelco?)?! I guess that's what happens “when you put Chinese scientists and U.S. scientists together..."
    2 May 2013, 05:05 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Exactly Mitch. Big losses in both acceleration and the opposite. None of this, "The more I stop the further I can go stuff."

     

    I also like their cost/unit claim but then you see their first contract from LA and low and behold the per unit cost is way higher. Of course I don't have the detail in what's included in the contract so there could be aux. support "Stuff". But I'm suspicious.

     

    BTW, When you augment Chinese with American you also get a fortune cookie!
    2 May 2013, 05:33 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    The last line from your movie clip seems oddly apropos to this story.
    2 May 2013, 05:51 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Ahhh John, HTL gave me a good laugh near the start of the day and you've just provided a great one toward the end. Very fitting indeed! :))

     

    Now, How about an OTR loco. battery contract for tomorrow!
    2 May 2013, 06:00 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    At this point I think almost any news would do, although a closed financing is at the top of my wish list.
    2 May 2013, 06:33 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1633) | Send Message
     
    Everyone seems to be on the ropes in here :) !!
    2 May 2013, 06:49 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    I don't think folks are on the ropes, but they clearly don't see much sense in speculating until Axion says something.
    2 May 2013, 07:37 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1368) | Send Message
     
    BYD is claiming a minimum 150 mile range?

     

    Reality: The Long Beach Post obtained results from trials with Hertz in Los Angeles on December 23, 2012. Results showed that "the trial actually produced a range of 123 miles with a 2.02 kWh/mi consumption rate--all with no heating or A/C, meaning that more than 90% of the battery would have to be used in order to achieve the results claimed by BYD. On a hot day with a full passenger load, the bus performance would actually result in about a 65 mile range at 3.8 kWh/mi."

     

    Source: http://tinyurl.com/d9y...

     

    I'm all for electric buses but there is a record of unfulfilled promises here. . .
    What does 90% depth of discharge do to a lithium iron phosphate battery?
    2 May 2013, 08:23 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4670) | Send Message
     
    >D Lane ... I would guess, and this is purely a guess, that one would be swapping out old for new batteries about every 1.5 years. Attached is a generic Li-on discharge table that show approx. 300 to 500 DoD to 100% will get you to 70% battery capacity (105 to 88 miles). Then there is temperature, recharge rate and on and on, that will affect performance.

     

    http://bit.ly/JT4sp8
    2 May 2013, 08:38 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1368) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, love the link!
    2 May 2013, 08:55 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (8072) | Send Message
     
    Lithium cobalt cycling is not the same as LiFePO4 cycling, which is a much more durable lithium chemistry.
    2 May 2013, 10:32 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1368) | Send Message
     
    Thanks JPR, understood.

     

    Its difficult to get info on specific batteries. I do know that the BAE hybrid system uses A123 storage (like BYD- its lithium iron phosphate) on series hybrid city buses. Those batteries are reported to last 6-8 years. I know its a different application and the batteries are not identical, but I am skeptical of BYD's claims. I hope they are true but the company's track record is not inspiring.

     

    They are suggesting the batteries "are capable of 6,000 charge-discharge cycles before falling to the 70 percent full recharge level at which they would be decommissioned."

     

    At the very least, I'm wondering how much the battery can be routinely discharged without significantly shortening its life.
    3 May 2013, 09:13 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4670) | Send Message
     
    >D Lane ... And let's not forget that the time a 100% DoD (A123 considers this achieved at 20% of battery capacity remaining) is left in this SoC is important to extended cycle life. Then there is the question of what the recharge routine is ... 1C, 10C, 100C(?) ... I find this information hard to get but the warning that rapid & overcharge are detrimental to cycle life and battery capacity although there is no shortage of anecdotal recommendations & results. Just so much sketchy information to sift through.
    3 May 2013, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    Well as AIB complained about not enough to keep him busy...

     

    EV sales
    There is a video from Bloomberg titled “ Headwinds for Tesla “ but it is mostly a general talk about EVs and the markets. They point out that no EV maker is making a profit and that this is clearly not sustainable.http://bloom.bg/107pclD

     

    Number one in sales is believed to be Tesla for the month (and the year, up to present. BTW)
    2,200 is the estimate from Insideevs Hybrid cars Dashboard puts it at 2,100.
    Of course they had a large backlog, in a few days we will find out if reservations are keeping pace with production.
    From Tesla’s Feb 20, 2013 8-K
    “After deliveries and cancellations, our net reservations at year end, were over 15,000, up from about 13,000 at the end of Q3. New reservations continue at a steady, although slower pace in Q1 2013, as compared to December,”
    Reservations IMO will be the key metric from the CC.
    I believe they are not keeping up with deliveries which is why the announcements. (Service and Leasing so far, something else tomorrow. Likely SC network)

     

    Chevrolet Volt: In April, 1,306
    Only one month this year so far has been better than any month since last April of last year. Last Nov. they ran out of cars in their highest selling areas. Ca.
    Growing inventories of Volts are reported on dealer lots.
    GM admitted they lose money on every Volt sold. Yet they are coming out with a next gen Volt (Time unknown) they will sell even cheaper $7,000 to $10,000 and make more of them. EV believers think they can do this and make a profit as well due to the wonders of increasing the scale. (Except the Trolls here, claim no one want’s it anyway.)
    In Canada: Chevy Volt, sold 64 in April VS 76 a year ago.

     

    Nissan LEAF: Nissan had a second good (For it) month 1,936 units were sold but there were shortages on the west coast in April.
    In Canada April, sales 48 VS 82 in March. Last was a bump due to inventory shortage for the months before.

     

    Honda
    Accord Plug-In: sales doubled + to 55 units. Honda apparently only has 30 in stock despite a sales start in January. US total 100 sold. I don’t know what they are doing with it.
    Fit EV: Sales 22
    Poor Fools. They need to get with it. According to Insideevs, Honda needs to sell 1,100 for CARB. They are at 161 Fit Ev's for 10 months.
    Unfortunately Honda so far insists on a profit from it’s lease ($389 month.)

     

    Toyota
    Prius Plug-In: Worst sales month ever at 599. Every month this year is worse than the last 5 months of 2012. Note: It is still only available in 15 states.
    RAV4 EV: 70 sales. 8 month total 474 also a compliance problem with a need to sell over 2,000 in the next few years. Toyota recently reiterated they will only make 2,600 Rav4 EVs
    “We’re committed to meeting our ZEV credit requirements through a combination of plug-in hybrid, pure battery electric and hydrogen fuel cell vehicle sales.”

     

    Ford
    C-Max Energi: sold 411. The year has been mostly flat for the C max. Every month this year has been between 334 and 494. While the inventory is still low, at 1,400 that’s 400 more available than last month.
    Fusion Energis: 365 for April This is only the second full month and inventories don’t seem to equal early demand yet.
    Focus Electric: 147.Ford has stated they do not expect much improvement, despite now having 3 X the dealerships selling them, as they did in the fall.

     

    Coda declared BK and went Chapter 11.

     

    Fisker is mostly gone. The stores are discounting them to get them off their lots.
    The DOE loan has become a political football.

     

    i-MiEV Not quite gone Mitsubishi says i-MiEV sales check in at 127 units in April, but they continue to sell what they have, with no plans to import more. ($10K discount is offered)
    Mitsubishi has declared their intent to stay in the US as a company.
    In Canada, Mitsubishi sold 24 i-MiEVs VS 22 in April of last year. Note the 2013 is being imported to Canada.

     

    Hybridcars dashboard puts the US overall plug in rate for the month at 0.56% with 0.50% for the year 0.23% for 2012 CY.

     

    Europe
    EVs only made up 0.23 percent of new car sales in Western Europe during Q1 of 2013.

     

    Slow sales in Europe mean EVs often going to fleets
    http://aol.it/ZCViJA

     

    "Mercedes has been building up its Car2go carsharing network, and it may be where its 6,000 electric Smart Fortwos planned for production this year end up."

     

    Germany has no incentives: "Consumers can buy the Smart Fortwo ED for the equivalent of $31,000 in Germany after taxes, while the gasoline version of that car goes for about $13,500."

     

    Norway subsidizes to the tune of $8,500 each year you own it.

     

    One PHEV that is doing well in Europe so far is
    Volvo V60 Plug-In Demand Increases, Company Looks To Double Production…Again
    They planned for 1,000 and are now planning for 10K. It is a Diesel PHEV (31Mi Electric).
    http://bit.ly/107pf0W

     

    China’s JAC to Export 2,000 Electric Vehicles to US to Sell Under GreenTech Automotive
    http://bit.ly/ZCViJC

     

    If you are interested on the Non EV “Super luxury brands and Models”
    Ferrari Sees Growth in Japan as China, Europe Sales Slump
    http://bloom.bg/107pcC5
    The cheapest Ferrari available in Japan is 23.9 million Japanese Yen = $243,971.20 USD

     

    When Axion hits $100 maybe…
    2 May 2013, 07:49 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    Froggy,
    Thanks for the update. I am still a believer that economics will force consumers to the hybrid market somewhere down the road. Today, not so much. Perhaps it isn't the right economics yet, but I still think that a $25,000 Prius that consumers report gets 50 mpg on a regular basis is a very good deal.
    That is double the average of most drivers. At 12,000 m/p/year that would be 240 gallons at $4 = $960 per year.
    Purchasing an equivalent size vehicle for $20,000 that gets 24 in city and 34 on highway= average 27 means 445 gallons = $$1,780 per year. Almost double per year in fuel. We are talking a 4 or 5 year payback for any consumer that drives over 12,000 miles per year. I am convinced that the economics in the future will continue to benefit hybrids. S/S and other low hanging fruit will help. But in the long run the cheapest most viable vehicle will prevail.
    2 May 2013, 08:44 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Futurist,
    One other thing to keep in mind. I was reminded the other day that the Chevy Volt takes premium gas while the Prius, and most hybrids take regular gas. I wonder how many of the cost savings analysis out there take into account the difference in the price of the fuel being used?
    2 May 2013, 10:03 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4670) | Send Message
     
    >LabTech ... All cars are recommended to be operated with premium gas because EPA test, thus the sticker declarations, are done with it. There is no penalty beyond a 1% to possibly as high as 3% less miles per gallon. There is no reason to use anything but regular. My source reference is from Ken Thompson, General Manager - Commercial & Fleet, Classic Chevrolet who is the largest volume dealer in the USA for 15 straight years & devoted Volt owner.
    2 May 2013, 10:27 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4197) | Send Message
     
    The Prius is a pretty small vehicle, Fut, which eliminates it from consideration by many people. My wife drives a 2011 Camry for comfortable ride, 5 passenger capacity, and large trunk space. With a driving pattern that is largely suburban/open highway, gas mileage realized in consistently > 30mpg. Fuel savings (priced at $4/gal) relative to the Prius would amount to less than $640 per year and take ~8 years to recover a $5K vehicle capital cost difference.
    2 May 2013, 10:43 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    D-Inv,
    A truer comparison for you would be the Camrey Hybrid. I think it runs $3,000 more than the regular Camrey. I think the gas mileage is something like 35/40. But I see the Prius as a 5 passenger ( admittedly tight) large cargo area ( hatchback w/ fold down rear seats) vehicle.
    But heck. I'm a tall fella that squeezes into a sub compact every day to achieve 30mpg. I detest paying for fuel. To me a slight discomfort in my commute is worth it. But I realize that attitude isn't for everyone.
    3 May 2013, 07:42 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    Futurist, the Prius driver seat goes way back. I'm six feet, and am not nearly all the way back. My friend (6'4") has Prius because it has enough headroom for him.
    3 May 2013, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • Al Marshall
    , contributor
    Comments (531) | Send Message
     
    I recently traded in our oldest car to get a second camry hybrid making mine a three hybrid family.

     

    The decision reflected a combination of gas mileage improvement (the Camry Hyrbid has double the mileage of the Hyundai Azera it replaced), much better resale value, (the seven and eighth years on the Hyundai would cost about the same in resale value as the first two years on the brand new Camry Hybrid), and repair cost. Net/net it became clear that the new car made economic sense....and it also made my wife happy.
    3 May 2013, 04:19 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    DRich,

     

    I didn't know that all EPA tests were done with Premium gas. I wonder what the difference in performance is when you compare premium to the 10% EtOH gas that everyone is selling now. As for being able to put regular gas in a Volt, see the link below. According to GM, you "can" put regular gas in a Volt if you have to, but they don't recommend it..

     

    http://bit.ly/11HLGv7
    3 May 2013, 04:52 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Something else to consider when buying a Volt. How often "do" you need to use gasoline?

     

    http://bit.ly/Zte1nt
    3 May 2013, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    Labtech: The octane rating of gas can have an impact on fuel economy these days because of the computer-controlled ignition curve. The higher octane rating allows spark timing to be advanced (i.e. earlier in the compression stroke), resulting in more complete combustion. It also allows a leaner mixture under optimal conditions (excess fuel can be used for cooling of components exposed to combustion if needed, e.g. high ambient temps under heavy load, although it's not so much for components these days as metallurgy has improved so much over the decades).

     

    The primary determinant is the tendency for detonation. Lower octanes detonate more easily. Retarding spark, adding excess fuel to cool the charge, ... all help reduce detonation. It also lowers fuel mileage.

     

    HardToLove
    3 May 2013, 05:19 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4197) | Send Message
     
    "A truer comparison for you would be the Camrey Hybrid."

     

    A non-hybrid Camry is certainly more comparable in size and ride with a Camry Hybrid than with a Prius. Looking at fuel economy and payback period for investing in a hybrid versus conventional ice as I intended, though, the greater fuel efficiency of the Prius over Camry hybrid is insufficient to recover capital cost in an economically acceptable (to me) time frame. Pay back period on a Camry hybrid would be much longer as highway mileage on the hybrid Camry is estimated as 38 - 39 mpg vice 50 or more mpg for the Prius.

     

    MSRP capital cost differential between a base 2013 model conventional Camry and base 2013 model hybrid Camry is $3,700. (I looked at the differential on 2011 models before buying but don't remember what it was.) For my family's driving patterns, fuel use differentials between the conventional-hybrid Camry alternatives would likely fall in 3 mpg - 7 mpg range. At the high end of that likely fuel savings range (7 mpg better fuel economy), I estimate it would take just under 10 years driving 15k miles per year to save $3,700 in fuel costs with fuel priced at $4 gal. (I have yet to see $4/gal fuel costs and really don't expect to experience it within the next 10 years without assistance of higher State and federal fuel taxes.
    6 May 2013, 06:53 PM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (1027) | Send Message
     
    Our local newspaper ran an interesting article entitled, "Upgrading for the long haul --- Truckers navigate new Calif. rules with help of new class in Phoenix.

     

    http://bit.ly/16wPeGn

     

    It talks about how expensive retrofitting trucks is going to be to comply with California's new emissions regulations. I didn't think it was a particularly well written article, so I tried a google search to find out more about this, thinking this might be an opportunity for the ePower solution. Couldn't find much online, but thought I'd post the link to the article.
    3 May 2013, 01:09 AM Reply Like
  • axion-nl
    , contributor
    Comments (179) | Send Message
     
    http://linkd.in/10w6Rxx and http://linkd.in/15dyC75 have an impressive resume. The future looks bright!
    3 May 2013, 02:51 AM Reply Like
  • Ishikawa
    , contributor
    Comments (181) | Send Message
     
    Concerned ! Technologies are at R/D, Commercialization stage but, management are all approaching or passed retirement age. They need more young hands at marketing and sales area. They need a lot of energy in the company ! jmho !
    3 May 2013, 05:12 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1633) | Send Message
     
    That was my question to JP a while ago, where I stated that TG and Co were close to retirement and the last thing they would want is to deal with the high stress levels of getting an R&D venture off the ground. JP assured me that age was really not an issue at all when we have dedicated and hard working people who are committed to their job! We shall see :)
    3 May 2013, 05:27 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    Ishikawa> Retirement age is one of those concepts that's undergoing immense change. Most boomers don't believe the systems that were created for our parents' generation will be robust enough to support ours. More importantly, the demographics are amazingly negative. If we drop out of the workforce at 65 there won't be enough bodies left to provide the necessary goods and services without huge increases in immigration. Besides, many of us have been pretty profligate spenders and can't afford to retire in the classic sense.

     

    I'm not sure what all the changes will be, but the new normal retirement age in my mind is somewhere in the mid-70s rather than mid-60s.

     

    Creating a new company and a new product is tremendously energizing. I've often told people that it's more addictive than drugs. When you combine the joy of challenging work with reduced family demands, these old farts are way more productive than their younger counterparts.
    3 May 2013, 08:02 AM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (987) | Send Message
     
    JP

     

    In total agreement re age.
    This isn't our parents nor grand parents traditional demo.

     

    I'm past the 60 mark and look forward to 3 extended possible work engagements, not retirement.
    Some friends had the old AT&T/Verizon et al early retirement at age 52...55...58.
    The most healthy and invigorated ones started a second career.

     

    With some positive news and OEM results, the real "hard part" is done for TG and the real fun can begin.
    3 May 2013, 03:09 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    Sixty really is the new forty. I get a huge kick out of my wife's parents who operate an urban vegetable garden in Houston for the elderly. They don't flash on the idea that most of their clients are younger than they are.
    3 May 2013, 03:20 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2796) | Send Message
     
    Several things I learned while a Financial Advisor:

     

    1) The vast majority of Americans have almost no savings when they start retirement. This is not expected to change.

     

    2) Many will want to keep working, to help meet the financial needs not met by 1), and for various emotional reasons.

     

    3) Many will be unable to perform 2), due to health limitations.

     

    4) Many will have a rude, sharp reduction in lifestyle.

     

    To me, the last 1/3 of the Boomers' lives will be a fascinating watch, as has been the first 2/3. I see big challenges, changes and opportunities.
    3 May 2013, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • Ishikawa
    , contributor
    Comments (181) | Send Message
     
    JP,
    My concern has nothing to do with intellect wrt age per se. It is the available energy to drive and execute vigorous project schedule and goals that is of concern. Yes, we are all young at heart at our retirement age but our minds and bodies are slowing down. This is due to nature. For a small company like Axion at the present stage of development, what we need is bright eye bushy tail workers who are gunho and ready to charge. People willing to put in long hours pursuing orders. It seems that we have more than enough minds but not enough able bodies to handle the job.
    Again, jmho.
    4 May 2013, 02:23 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    I don't care about age. What I care about is senior leadership being fully invested in Axion's ultimate triumph and success---fully invested by virtue of life years spent, fortunes risked, other opportunities forsaken, and sweat equity expended--fully invested in heart, soul, mind, and wallet. I think we have a lot of that in the present team--they're the ones who have taken the company this far--all this way through, and now nearly out, of the valley of death, and it's them I want to see gain the sweet, inevitable victory. Given all that's been accomplished, I certainly think they can do it, are the very ones *to* do it, and when at last they shall rise to claim the dais, they will certainly have earned it.
    4 May 2013, 02:50 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5073) | Send Message
     
    "the demographics are amazingly negative"

     

    JP, I have said over on the QC since the '08 crash that "demographics" are changing and in a negative way ... it has gov't and economists scrambling as the boomers enter retirement. The normal life cycle is older people spend less, require less (except healthcare) so the normal stimulus won't have the effect it did 20 years ago.
    They downsize in homes, etc.

     

    No one knows what to do at this moment, but I am seeing more time spent on articles about this. So I think the real think tanks are getting a grip on it better now.

     

    I almost bet you that in another 5-10 years it opens the door for a new group of products for younger generations and other things that our generation would never consider. (sorta like $600 smart phones)
    4 May 2013, 05:02 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    I'm still very uncertain how this will all play out, but most boomers I talk to have no real desire to retire. Many of us want to reinvent ourselves and do something different than what we've done in the past, but stopping isn't in the cards and the absence of futile activity seems to more than make up for any decline in the total activity level.
    4 May 2013, 06:18 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5073) | Send Message
     
    that's true JP to a point, what I really meant is boomers for the most part are downsizing, not buying larger houses etc.
    4 May 2013, 07:12 AM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (987) | Send Message
     
    Ishikawa

     

    "...what we need is bright eye bushy tail workers who are gunho and ready to charge."
    Different work ethic these days and incentives.

     

    Given any couple of positives (not just news, but sales, OEM endorsements e.g. get past the NDAs etc), the fire in the belly can burn for the next stage of business for management regardless of age.
    Yes, at some point they'll bring in "younger" talent...(define "younger")...but never underestimate the wisdom and experience TG and BOD members possess.

     

    "People willing to put in long hours pursuing orders."...hours many times over rated versus productivity.
    I've worked with younger and older talent who get more done in a 40 hour work week than many produce in a 55 hour work week.

     

    Just an opinion from my perch...just an opinion from my due diligence re AXPW and experience.
    4 May 2013, 02:33 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1840) | Send Message
     
    As a 29 year old, I can say that working for a battery/manufacturing company does not interest younger workers at all. It's slow as molasses, full of old folks, lots of paperwork and regulations, and there's no way to take what you learned at work and build something on your own. This is one that goes to the older and experienced who want to build a legacy.
    4 May 2013, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    Sad but true. Nobody under 40 wants to do manufacturing.
    4 May 2013, 04:13 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (658) | Send Message
     
    Yet millions of people, many of them young, work in manufacturing plants. The harsh realities of life cause all of us to do work that we many times would prefer not to do.
    4 May 2013, 04:34 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    jveal, I like manufacturing, and always have. The harsh realities will be a country addicted to Facebook that can't make anything, and starve.

     

    The US has lost the technology and companies to make things like nuclear reactor vessels, oil tankers, high voltage transmission insulators, ammonia fertilizer production, etc. We can't maintain our infrastructure, much less replace it. Our trains are slower than 50 years ago, our bridges are falling down, and we cannot manage large civil construction projects any more. Imagine replacing the Hoover Dam or the New York subway system. There ain't no app for that.
    4 May 2013, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2213) | Send Message
     
    jveal: and yet, automation will remove most of the manufacturing jobs that are not highly technical or managerial. No escaping the need for intellect and training in the coming industrial work force.

     

    Most of the jobs created recently are in service industries. Food service, shop clerks and lower level health care.

     

    BTW, doctors who are not computer literate will have little place in the future of health care. Symptom and automated lab test results correlation, along with compatible diagnostic software, are the future of medicine. And nurses, of course.
    4 May 2013, 05:16 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    So spot-on RK it hurts.

     

    Manufacturing <==> Manhood <==> National strength.

     

    As these wither and degrade the result will be pain.
    4 May 2013, 05:21 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    The one thing manufacturing needs more than anything is adequate and secure supplies of reliable energy. When there was no particular global advantage because of energy security, jobs went where labor was cheapest. Now that North America is on the verge of plentiful and reliable domestic energy, I won't be the least bit surprised to see manufacturing come back in a big way. It will no doubt be highly automated, but I expect changes in the oil and gas industry to drive the economy forward in ways we can't even imagine yet.

     

    I get a huge kick out of the ideologues who use 'big oil' as the whipping boy for all of society's ills when the reality is that big oil is merely a hired hand to the foreign governments who call the shots. It will be fun to see what happens when big oil isn't bowing and scraping for its daily bread.
    4 May 2013, 05:36 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Very complex topic why we have the social shifts in areas like farming and manufacturing. Since I worked in manufacturing in many support functions for various entities, I can tell you that there were many interesting times to live through. Harder than the work were the stresses caused by the "them vs us" mentality built up over many years in the manufacturing sector. Then it got even worse when economic realities set in and you had tiered pay scales among the workers. Not by skill set or capability to perform the task but simply by years of service. And some people just got off making life miserable for anyone and everyone because that's how they got their kicks. In a union environment you cannot get rid of these few people.

     

    Many found ways to deal with it by transferring to areas where they could do a job by themselves. Or you'd have departments formed around people with more similar interests/circumstances.

     

    Most "Interesting" for me, People were promoted to technical union jobs based on time of service only. I used to have to go out and look at the skilled trades equalization list and often have to bring in twice as much support as I needed to do tasks so I could tell the one's that were useless to go sleep somewhere. You had to bring them in and pay them even though they could never do the work. You survived by networking with the people you could stimulate outside of the compensation model or those that you could depend on to just do their assigned job well. The few factory trolls you let sleep their lives away or wander off and cause trouble somewhere else in the factory.

     

    It's interesting trying to do the installation and launch of programs when you have to start your day every time with a random set of staffing assigned the night before and revised again in the am because they only show if they want to. Night time beer and relationships change some priorities. And heaven help you if you're late with your program. Then you get management help from another layer of the organization where they often are either good and can help (rare), are only looking to be punitive or they are totally incompetent.

     

    Mix all this in with the fact that the facility you are working in is building product NOW vs the department you're putting in to build product 6 months from now. The resources are all controlled by the manufacturing people building product NOW.

     

    So if you're a youngster and you've heard these stories and a ton more from your older relatives or via some other channel, would you aspire to manufacturing?

     

    Again, just a small look at a few of the factors that changed US social perceptions of manufacturing. There are reams and reams of books on the topic obviously.
    4 May 2013, 05:43 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    SiHB, You got that right. There are so many tasks at all levels that are done far better and more efficiently via tech.
    4 May 2013, 05:47 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    I'd probably survive 15 minutes or so working in a manufacturing environment. Heck, I prefer small company work because I hate the administrivia of larger firms. A buddy of mine one said companies were the most fun when you could carry them around in a briefcase and things started going to hell the minute you hired somebody to answer the phone. I'm probably a throwback, but I like the idea that my only responsibilities are to my family and my clients.
    4 May 2013, 07:12 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    JP: "small company work because I hate the administrivia of larger firms"

     

    Spot on. Re manufacturing, combining the two ...

     

    I had the pleasure of being employee # 1 for a former customer that decide to start his own textile mile, which has done very well. I never had so much fun in my life.

     

    Everything was "hands on". I got to help the fixer install gantries (his knowledge and my "outside the box" thinking caused him to suggest we could make a very good living do it as we got *very* fast at it), learned a little about getting a loom going when it jammed (and jury-rigged a fix that had to last about a week awaiting parts one time when everyone else was gone), did his computer work, paid the bills, helped plan cash flow, did data entry into the bookkeeping system, wrote some custom software to make unique piece tickets I designed myself (ergonomically efficient for the loom operators and inspectors reducing error-opportunity), ...

     

    I *loved* almost every minute of it.

     

    But, that's not the same as repetitive work, such as I did in factories when I was younger. I hated that. I did like being a machinist a lot - just on the dawn of numeric-control equipment. In my second job as a machinist I made bulkheads for the F-111 swing-wing and a lot of different skills were needed. It suited me well.

     

    I think that's partly what led me to start taking computer classes when I was 21.

     

    HardToLove
    5 May 2013, 07:52 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    John, It can be far more rewarding being master of your own domain for sure. But there are only so many openings in society for such positions! ;)
    5 May 2013, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • VictorG45
    , contributor
    Comments (41) | Send Message
     
    Cost and Performance Assumptions for Various Storage Technologies
    http://bit.ly/10w7QOf

     

    Scroll down aways to see the chart or read the entire article.

     

    Regards,
    Victor
    3 May 2013, 03:05 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    My favorite line in the article about flywheels and other storage
    "
    Assuming that the Velkess flywheel and other new energy storage were to pan out then you could get about 2000 watts of solar power combined with 15 kwh of storage for about $3500 or less as prices drop."

     

    I sure hope those pesky assumptions work out. Its a long way from the scientific lab to the successful manufacturing process. But who knows? This flywheel might be the right solution for grid. The Scandia chart shows that enhanced batteries with carbon electrodes are a great deal right now. Hope that continues to be true.
    3 May 2013, 07:50 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    VictorG45: Here's another article on the flywhell storage that was posted a short while back: not sure if you'd seen it, so ...

     

    A little more discussion of it.

     

    http://bit.ly/12QztsJ

     

    HardToLove
    3 May 2013, 10:14 AM Reply Like
  • VictorG45
    , contributor
    Comments (41) | Send Message
     
    I wonder who's carbon electrodes they were referring to in the chart ?
    4 May 2013, 01:59 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    East Penn Manufacturing to expand operations, add 400 jobs in Berks County

     

    http://bit.ly/13RoZGo
    3 May 2013, 07:11 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: I wonder if that includes some lines for PbC production? :-)) Enough space, enough money, enough aggressiveness, ... to justify it if they see a market for it.

     

    HardToLove
    3 May 2013, 10:00 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    HTL, I'm sure that even if EP currently has no intentions of accommodating PbC production they have thought about how it might be integrated. Perhaps even made provisions that didn't require significant capital investment. Good businesses consider all their options.

     

    As a side note, EP sure is good at sucking up public funds from many different areas.
    3 May 2013, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    Family companies like East Penn must be very adept at opportunistic financing if they want to keep the equity in the family. Otherwise they might have to take money from outsiders and accommodate their wishes in the future.
    3 May 2013, 10:34 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    John, I understand your point. But considering the taxpayer just paid for 50% of the last expansion and given the magnitude of the operation I don't think the controlling interest(s) of EP would be taking on a very high level of risk financing through more normal channels.

     

    But I can understand why they wouldn't. Just play the game with the various entities that don't worry about the money they control because it isn't theirs.
    3 May 2013, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • axion-nl
    , contributor
    Comments (179) | Send Message
     
    two more weeks until the first Q results. What can we expect? It would be nice to see some sales ramping up :)

     

    But for now, I do think that Axion is working on something BIG, because why else is it taking so long.....
    3 May 2013, 08:17 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1633) | Send Message
     
    I certainly hope we are NOT disappointed :)
    3 May 2013, 09:04 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    05/02/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (up already).
    # Trds: 32, MinTrSz: 250, MaxTrSz: 50000, Vol 184550, AvTrSz: 5767
    Min. Pr: 0.2410, Max Pr: 0.2600, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2492
    # Buys, Shares: 16 45700, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2575
    # Sells, Shares: 16 138850, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2465
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:3.04 (37.8% "buys"), DlyShts 18850 (10.21%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 13.58%

     

    I had mentioned somewhere that I thought we had a few traders in and it would take a few days for them to exit. I think I mentioned that it looked like most of the recent "mini-uglies" were gone too. Today seems to support those conclusions. Our one large ask was from CDEL, $0.28x98K. It was well out of the trading range and had no impact. Our only larger trades occurred near the open, $0.2410x50K at the open and $0.2500x33K at 9:33. Both were "sells".

     

    These two trades were 81.7% of the day's volume. They had very heavy effect on the metrics for the day. I mention a couple of those affected below.

     

    Of the 21 peeks at the bids, 12 were increases and 9 were decreases. Of the 17 asks, 7 were increases and 9 were decreases. As mentioned before, some of this movement comes just from one price level getting exhausted, uncovering prices at another level when trading occurs. What is interesting is that the asks showed weakness in the morning and had more increases starting at 13:30 - 5 of 7 subsequent changes were increases of the ask. Bids were similar with 9 of 11 bid changes being increases subsequent to 12:45. With VWAP very near the mid-point of the price range, a close at the high ( a real trade too of 3,250 shares, not just a "lure") and late-day strengthening, I think this also supports the thesis that the "mini-uglies" are mostly gone and there are some traders that are taking some profit.

     

    Average trade size finished right at the 100-day average size and seems to be flattening out, as I recently mentioned I though it should. It's smack-dab in the middle of what I believe to be "retail" trading sizes. Without those two larger trades, we get 3,385 - very low and at the bottom of "retail" I think. Buy: sell was influenced by those two trades as well - it's "decent", even with those two larger "sells".

     

    Without them we get 1:1.22 (45% "buys") and VWAP would move to $0.2530.

     

    Daily short volume and percentage seems to be continuing its retreat to levels John noted had become the new normal. This also suggest the exit of at least one "mini-ugly" was real because when we (apparently) know he was selling we had spikes in the short volume. My SWAG was that his shares were sold through a market-maker not controlled by the broker holding the shares, forcing flagging as "short sales". With that seller having stated he was exiting, it appears his word was good. I believe he was representative of the other "mini-uglies".

     

    In summary, I believe after a few more days of traders taking profits, there's a really decent chance that the investors can take control and move price to the next level before the quarterly results, bringing in the next round of profit-takers, if there are any.

     

    "The Never-ending Story".

     

    My original inflection point calculations are still in disarray and, with the effect of those two larger trades, behaving as we would expect - a bit weaker. Ditto on the new version. But I wouldn't assign any significance yet because the VWAP and volume without those two trades would be so much different.

     

    Details of "Dly Sht % of 'sells'" and inflection points omitted here.

     

    HardToLove
    3 May 2013, 08:37 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    At the open CDEL playing both sides again today: bid $0.202x100K (lots of higher bids ahead though) and ask $0.28x98K.

     

    HardToLove
    3 May 2013, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4670) | Send Message
     
    >H.T.Love ... Looks like they are ready for a break in either direction. Since I have no Level II today I have to ask. Do you see any out sized quantities being laddered in either direction by a single MM?
    3 May 2013, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    DRich: No. Since 4/30, no 400K anywhere, no appearances by a single mm having multiple bids of real size in place. But do keep in mind that my L II consolidates so if they did "ladder in", I might not see it. However I might see some as entries hidden by better prices are at least briefly exposed when the better prices get taken out.

     

    There are such on MMs that do the stand 2.5K sizes - NITE, CDEL, UBSS, ... So some of these might be implying very large quantities we'd not see. But I think not as the number and size of our larger trades has been coming down the last few days.

     

    xxx <-- fingers crossed.

     

    HardToLove
    EDIT! UPDATE CDEL just moved their 98K down to $0.259.
    3 May 2013, 11:19 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    HTL, Thanks for the update. One other question. Do you happen to remember which mm was offering the 400k block in the past when it was showing?
    3 May 2013, 11:40 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco, no. But it's in my spreadsheet and comments. Hang on, spreadsheet s/b faster ... UBSS.

     

    Our biggie the last couple days has been CDEL, albeit smaller.

     

    HardToLove
    3 May 2013, 11:55 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Thanks HTL. You're the best! :)
    3 May 2013, 11:58 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4670) | Send Message
     
    >H.T.Love ... Makes for a very dull day. I guess I'll just have to wait for "The Automaker That Can Not Be Named" to make the big announcement today and see if it justifies the $3.00 run ... unless that solar powered plane was a stealth announcement.
    3 May 2013, 11:27 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4670) | Send Message
     
    And now we have the earth shaking news. A guarantee that the "S" will have the highest resale value, financing terms will be extended some length of time. like maybe 10 years(?), so the monthly payments are in the $600 range. Nothing about the Super-Charger Network and free fuel for life in more places. I'm a bit disappointed.

     

    http://bit.ly/18AcaBf
    3 May 2013, 01:35 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    And it's without consideration of time saved. You can calculate that while you're sitting there at the supercharger gettin' your free fuel!
    3 May 2013, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4670) | Send Message
     
    Watching the trading of "The Automaker That Can Not Be Named" and it is truly a thing of beauty to watch. I figure the traders have been ordered to get the enthusiasm level & stock price higher and it is being done with a minimum of capital but don't seem to be drawing in the Tesladors. I wonder what the retail trade was expecting. Looks like topping or maybe consolidation has set in.
    3 May 2013, 02:36 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    The fascinating thing about the customer put-back right is that its fair value has to be measured for accounting purposes, reported as a charge against income and built into the liability section of Tesla's balance sheet.

     

    To the extent that Musk adds his guarantee to sweeten the deal for banks that understand Tesla's dismal financial condition, his personal contribution must be measured and accounted for too.
    3 May 2013, 03:04 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    DRich: "Makes for a very dull day".

     

    Until LAMP and ATDF started battling it out on the bids! ATDF had to withdraw for a wee bit and think about it. But they came back strong after a few minutes.

     

    No big change in pps, but it was nice to see someone that apparently wanted shares more than ATDF folks! And it put so much green on my spreadsheet manual tracking of bid changes that I think I'll have to mow it if this keeps up! :-)) ... unless it's just algae. :-((

     

    Just proves there's a downside to everything! :-((

     

    HardToLove
    3 May 2013, 05:26 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    (XIDE): S&P Cuts Exide to CCC+ from B- after lead recycling plant woes.

     

    Per DJ and Marketwatch.

     

    Currently down 4.86% to $0.75.

     

    HardToLove
    3 May 2013, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    New tussler on the bid side - MM LAMP fighting ATDF to get shares. You know they say competition is good for the markets - GO LAMP! GO!

     

    HardToLove
    EDIT: ATDF must be reading here? Withdraws from the battle 4 minutes after my comment.
    3 May 2013, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    HTL, I've never seen LAMP mentioned before. Since you follow this more is this MM new?

     

    EDIT: HTL I think it's these guys. Don't think they are retail.

     

    http://bit.ly/11HCd75
    3 May 2013, 03:16 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: You got 'em! I might have seen them before, but it's been a while and I would've forgotten them. From their description, it looks like they could easily have some retail clients.

     

    LAMP ,M ,LAMPOST CAPITAL, L.C. ,BOCA RATON, FL ,561-883-0454
    LAMP ,M ,LAMPOST CAPITAL, L.C. ,BOCA RATON,FL ,561-883-1410

     

    From page 2 here.

     

    http://bit.ly/18AVZn7

     

    HardToLove
    3 May 2013, 04:38 PM Reply Like
  • Johhny rambo
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    Nice way to finish up the week !

     

    TSLA traded $181,000,000 today - $739,000,000 on the week

     

    AXPW traded $20,000 today - $220,000 on the week

     

    And we REALLY think somehow-someday-someway this is going to be a $ billion company.

     

    That is not hopium it is full blown CRACK !
    3 May 2013, 05:01 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    I disagree and think the best thing you could possibly do for your own peace of mind is sell quickly.
    3 May 2013, 05:16 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    JR: If we have a market cap bigger than Exide, as posted recently, anything is possible. But I thumbed you up for the laugh.

     

    HardToLove
    3 May 2013, 05:28 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    Exide still has twice Axion's market cap, but the sell-off makes almost as much sense as Tesla's recent rocket ride.
    3 May 2013, 06:05 PM Reply Like
  • growsmart
    , contributor
    Comments (171) | Send Message
     
    Sell,sell,sell,sell.
    3 May 2013, 06:54 PM Reply Like
  • jcrjg
    , contributor
    Comments (174) | Send Message
     
    Johhny rambo,

     

    I assume you are kidding, but of course trading volume has nothing to do with a stock's potential. Axion does not need to become a $1B company to be a great investment. We all have our own opinions, but I don't see $1B market cap as unreasonable. We'll see.
    4 May 2013, 07:07 AM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (987) | Send Message
     
    JP

     

    Just a thought.
    Though perplexed re "the other car company" pps ...and (my) lack of energy storage technical expertise, I wonder if this e.g. "...the other car company"...might be deja vu ~ real estate bubble...on steroids?
    4 May 2013, 02:40 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    At 12-31-12 Axion had more working capital than Tesla in both relative and absolute terms.

     

    Where Axion's market cap is 2.6 times book value and 3 times sales, Tesla's is 50 times book value and 15.2 times sales.

     

    For the two companies to carry the same level of market risk, Axion would to be trading in the $5 range.
    4 May 2013, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    I'm going to send an email to Seeking Alpha complaining that Johhny rambo is able to "like" his own comment 5 times and my account won't let me "like" my own comments: not even once.
    5 May 2013, 12:10 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2139) | Send Message
     
    Hi Metro,
    If you had 6 accounts you could do it too.
    5 May 2013, 12:23 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    I never thought of that. From now on, it will look like everyone agrees with my opinions. It is going to take awhile to set up thirty different accounts.
    5 May 2013, 01:38 AM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (987) | Send Message
     
    Sd

     

    A little sunlight like the account/likes always helpful for readers to put in context.

     

    Thanks!
    5 May 2013, 06:15 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    Actually while likes count up on the page don't necessarily reach your personal account total.
    I can't say why.
    IIndelco has
    4,276 Comments
    With only
    109 Likes
    http://bit.ly/119kZ7u

     

    (I think I've given him that many myself)

     

    For comparison I have.
    1,735 Comments
    775 Likes
    http://bit.ly/17GJgki

     

    Less than half the comments and 7 times the likes?
    I like to flatter myself as much as any one but not even I could believe that,

     

    I counted his likes and they went over 100 in two pages at that time.

     

    Since then I've paid some attention to my own total Likes.
    Sometimes I'll put out a comment with a lot of likes and the total number grows sometimes not. It may not for a week or so.

     

    IIndelco's hardly grows at all.

     

    I have no idea why.
    5 May 2013, 08:57 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    froggey, I believe that "likes" on Instablogs don't count.
    5 May 2013, 09:36 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    "Ya see, what we have, here ...is a failure to tabulate"
    5 May 2013, 09:41 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    Oh 48,
    That is just to damn funny. Very cool hand lukeish.
    5 May 2013, 10:21 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    Rick
    "I believe that "likes" on Instablogs don't count. "

     

    That's possible. I never tried separating the two or even seriously keeping track; beyond, it's the same as last time or not.
    5 May 2013, 10:32 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    I think ya'll have come up with "likely" causes to the like count issue.

     

    So if we are to conclude that liking has value, are there likes worth noting and heaven forbid closet likes?

     

    Tweets? Are they better than likes? Another one for the things you really need to know file. Right after, How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie pop? Likes comes after licks in the file.

     

    Ughhh, I think I've been waiting for Axion news too long! We should have a news date pool. Winner gets the first PbC battery that comes up for retail sale and a pair of alligator clip leads to do the tongue test to verify it's charged. :))
    6 May 2013, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2139) | Send Message
     
    ii,
    How about we give the first battery to JP to power the electric fence his favorite fanboys can pee on? The pool winner gets a personalized copy of the video. ;-)
    6 May 2013, 12:39 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Stilldazed. Yessssss! A much better plan. LOL
    6 May 2013, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    We could set up a cubicle next to one of the Superchargers and label it "Private Rest Room – Supercharger Users Only."
    6 May 2013, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18028) | Send Message
     
    JP: With proper wiring we could limit the time of occupancy, assuring higher availability to those in need. That should free up the Superchargers too.

     

    HardToLove
    6 May 2013, 01:59 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    The public service opportunities from a single PbC are limitless.
    6 May 2013, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • Nicu Mihalache
    , contributor
    Comments (1081) | Send Message
     
    We could set up a cubicle next to one of the Superchargers and label it "Private Rest Room – Supercharger Users Only."
    -----

     

    In the meantime, TSLA bears are p**ing in their electric shorts ;)
    6 May 2013, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    Since it is a slow day,
    Maybe I'm a little odd, but have always liked the sensation of the tongue test of the 9v battery. Maybe that is why I drool so much. However, only take the opportunity to make that test every few years. It is not like I hang out in stores testing the batteries with my tongue - now that would be odd. Don't think I would enjoy the PbC tongue test though.

     

    I remember as a kid daring the neighbor to touch the 12v electric fence and I told him I would hold his hand if he grabbed it with the other - thinking somehow I was clever. He must have been wearing rubber boots as I remember getting the jolt, or something about being the person at the end of the line gets the shock.

     

    John, maybe you could use that trick with your detractors - just remember the rubber boots.
    6 May 2013, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    It's times like these that highlight the wisdom of my "no shorts and no margin debt" investment philosophy.

     

    I'm convinced the market for Tesla is completely irrational and today's jubilant longs are in for a very rude awakening. I also know that the market can stay irrational longer than I can stay solvent and if I'm neither short nor in debt any storm can be weathered.
    6 May 2013, 03:44 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9558) | Send Message
     
    Metro, Perhaps some flashbacks of your time spent with friends can be found in here. Do you smell bacon?

     

    http://bit.ly/15sSO4G
    6 May 2013, 04:10 PM Reply Like
  • Nicu Mihalache
    , contributor
    Comments (1081) | Send Message
     
    John, I agree. I take nice profits out almost every other day. I even got into puts today, there is no way earnings (overall, not only the numbers) will beat the galaxy-high expectations.

     

    It was just an attempt at being funny, but his phrase will probably trigger more laughs than my previous post :)
    6 May 2013, 04:20 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30231) | Send Message
     
    One of the great things about you Nicu is that even though we disagree about the future of electric cars, you see some of the points I'm making about valuation and such and we can just agree to disagree about the rest. It's a much more pleasant experience than folks who want to prove me wrong with arm waving.
    6 May 2013, 04:53 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4670) | Send Message