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  • Axion Power Concentrator 240: May 30: Axion Power Reports First Quarter Results For 2013 290 comments
    May 30, 2013 7:57 AM | about stocks: AXPW

    Latest News, Articles and Presentations...

    Axion Power Reports First Quarter Results For 2013 --

    "Our hybrid passenger vehicle work has entered a new phase. The OEM, in an anticipated effort to insure they will not have a "sole source" issue, has asked us to pursue with them, an alternate provider of our final product. Since this initiative is in keeping with our long stated future strategy ("to become the leading supplier of carbon electrode assemblies for the global lead-acid battery industry"), we embraced the process. We are a few months into that program and it is going well."

    "The second hybrid truck program we have been working on is a dual battery design for a truck stop/start technology. This is very similar to the stop/start initiative we have been working toward with passenger vehicle OEM's, except that the battery sizes are larger. In this stop/start program, we have an historical industry leader as an initial strategic partner. We are in the early stages with this program, but we have been told that, if initial data continues to trend as we have predicted, then we will be able to incorporate data we developed in our passenger vehicle stop/start program. This is significant because it will literally reduce time to market by at least 1/3 rd."

    "Our Phase II proof of concept effort includes collaboration with strategic partners chosen for their expertise in the development of compatible vehicle systems that are essential for our entry into both historical and emerging markets. The unique properties our PbC® battery exhibits - long cycle life; high charge acceptance; fast re-charge; and inherent string equalization - create a strong case for PbC adoption by historical industry leaders and by those with new cutting edge technologies. Our application pointed out, as further evidence of our potential place in those markets, that we are in various stages of lab or field vehicle testing with these strategic partners."


    Axion Power Completes Private Placement for $9 Million in Senior Convertible Notes With Warrants and $1 Million in Subordinated Unsecured Notes With Warrants --

    the developer of advanced lead-carbon PbC® batteries and energy storage systems, announced today that it has completed a private placement of $9 million principal amount of senior convertible notes and warrants with institutional investors and an additional $1 millionprincipal amount of subordinated unsecured convertible notes and warrants in an ancillary transaction with directors, officers and one of the original Axion founders. Maxim Group LLC acted as placement agent.


    Axion Power on Panel at Energy Storage Economics 2.0 for New YOrk City and Beyond --

    The developer of advanced lead-carbon PbC® batteries and energy storage systems, announced its Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing, Vani Dantam, has been invited to participate as a panel expert on energy storage, at the upcoming AGRION event in NYC.


    Axion Power's CEO Discusses Q4 2012 Results - Earnings Call Transcript

    Thomas Granville CEO: "We left the designation 'development stage company' in the dust in 2012 and there's no slowdown in sight."


    Axion Power Reports Results for 2012 --


    Axion Power Completes New Continuous Roll Carbon Sheeting Process

    "This is a giant leap forward for us and allows us to make a better product at a reduced cost," said Axion Power's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Thomas Granville. "It's the final step in automating our complete activated carbon negative electrode manufacturing process and it brings us tighter quality control, better production yields, meaningful production quantities and significant labor cost reductions..."

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Axion Power and EPower Engine Systems Inaugurate Strategic Alliance Using PbC Batteries in Hybrid Drivetrains for Class 8 Trucks


    Dr. Ed Buiel, Axion's CTO until the end of 2010 -- A link to an archive of his comments on yadoodle about the PbC battery and much more. Invaluable commentary! Thanks to 481086 for putting the list together.

    Axion Power PbC Batteries Continue To Demonstrate Effectiveness For Railroad Applications -- Axion completed shipping its high-performance PbC batteries to Norfolk Southern Corp. (NS), one of North America's leading transportation providers, for use in Norfolk Southern's first all electric locomotive - the NS-999.

    Axion Power Residential Energy Storage HUB Certified to UL, CSA Standards -- Axion receives UL certification and CSA Standards for their Residential Energy Storage HUB.

    "ePower's Series Hybrid Electric Drive - Unmatched Fuel Economy for Heavy Trucks" -- by John Petersen. Discusses the potential fuel savings for ePower's Hybrid electric drive for class 8 trucks using Axion's PbC batteries.

    "Axion Power - A Battery Manufacturer Charging Forward" -- by John Petersen. This is an excellent summation on Axion Power's history. It is a good starting point for introducing Axion Power to friends and family.

    Axion Power Weighted Moving Average Prices and Volume:

    (updated through 5/27/2013)

    (click to enlarge)

    (click to enlarge)


    Axion Power Monthly Volume versus FINRA Short Percentage:

    (by John Petersen)

    In late January I wrote an Instablog about the precipitous decline in reported FINRA short sales as a percentage of total trading volume. Over the last two weeks that trend has accelerated and the percentages for the month of February and the last four weeks are solidly in single digits. I view this graph as another confirmation of seller exhaustion. The big uglies are history and it looks like everybody who really wanted to sell already has.

    John Petersen's instablog here.

    (click to enlarge)


    Links to important Axion Power research and websites:

    The Axion Power Concentrator Web Sites, created by APC commentator Bangwhiz. It is a complete easy-to-use online archive of all the information contained in the entire Axion Power Concentrator series from day one, including reports, articles, comments and posted links.

    Axion Power Wikispaces Web Site, created by APC commentator WDD. It is an excellent ongoing notebook aggregation of Axion Power facts.

    Axion Power Website. The first place any prospective investor should go and thoroughly explore with all SEC filings and investor presentations as well as past and present Press Releases.

    Axion Power Intra day Statistics Tracking: (updated 5/1/2013) HTL tracks and charts AXPW's intra-day statistics.

    PbC Cost Estimating Spreadsheet and Instablog: Apmarshall62 put together an instablog for estimating costs of the PbC. It includes a downloadable spreadsheet that you can use to plug in your own cost estimations.
    Be sure and either follow the Axion Power Host ID on Seeking Alpha or click the check-box labeled "track new comments on this article" just ahead of the comments section!
    WARNING: This is a troll free zone. We reserve the right to eliminate posts, or posters that are disruptive.


    Disclosure: I am long OTCQB:AXPW.

Back To Axion Power Host's Instablog HomePage »

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Comments (290)
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  • Ya leaves the door open for a whole sixteen minutes, and what happens? Well, then somebody like this here just waltzes right in...sheesh! ;)
    30 May 2013, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • # 2?


    05/29/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (up ~1 hour).
    # Trds: 105, MinTrSz: 404, MaxTrSz: 46000, Vol 528608, AvTrSz: 5034
    Min. Pr: 0.2526, Max Pr: 0.2750, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2628
    # Buys, Shares: 76 342204, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2617
    # Sells, Shares: 27 181404, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2647
    # Unkn, Shares: 2 5000,VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.2670
    Buy:Sell 1.89:1 (64.7% “buys”), DlyShts 199204 (37.68%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 109.81%


    The FINRA daily short data excludes a 10K AH trade. Including it in the day's volume would move daily short percentage from 38.41% to 37.68%. Including it also in the daily short volume would move volume from 199204 to 209,204 and percentage from 38.41% to 39.58%. Shortest to longest averages are ordered highest to lowest and all are rising, suggesting this trend, begun around 4/27, will continue. I'm expecting things to stabilize somewhere around the +/- 30% area.


    This string of AH trades says something different is going on. We don't know what it is though. Today was different in that it was not well-below the closing price of $0.2720, but was at that price.


    An notable aberration in the trading today: around 15:30 we saw a bid of $0.272 x 182,642. This might have been a bump up from the 104K @ $0.255 from ATDF I noted appeared at 13:33 or might have been from CDEL – I didn't catch it's first appearance, so I'm unsure which MM was the big one, but both appeared on the top of the bid at that price. Anyway, it made for some nice trading as VWAP from 15:18 through the AH trade was $0.2721 on 100.4K shares.


    It did ruin our buy sell though which was 3.92:1 prior to that. As the bids came up to this level, the sellers went wild with only three trades being buys (totaling 5K) and nine (95.4K, ~18% of day's volume) being sells during that time. It did help the VWAP though, as we could expect. Up to that time the VWAP was $0.2607.


    Average trade size fell back a bit but remains in the middle of what I believe to be typical retail size. Buy:sell continues in normal ranges and the averages are all there and are all properly ordered, shortest to longest periods being highest to lowest percentages.


    I've not jumped back into TA on this yet, but I did have a triangle I was watching whose apex is formed Thursday, 5/30. It's interesting that we get a break well above it's resistance line today. Also, the MACD that DRich brought to our attention some time ago is showing decidedly bullish tendencies and has been moving that direction for some time.


    My original inflection point calculations have come into agreement with that today: the one-day change for all six periods are improved, the change over five days has five of size periods improving and the rate of change of those over five days has three improving (5, 10 and 100-day) with the other three weakening slightly.


    My newer version, which includes other factors, is not only in agreement, but even more positive today. The one-day change in the six periods are six improved by big amounts with the change over five days improving on all six periods and the rate of change of those over five days showing improvement in five of the six periods. Significantly, I think, is that the five and 10-day periods are both above zero with the 25-day likely to move there today if weakness doesn't return. The five-day period has been positive since 5/21 and improved all but one day. The calculations have the five shortest periods “in order” highest to lowest readings.


    I think we have a signal for bullishness on this one.


    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.


    30 May 2013, 08:20 AM Reply Like
  • Even a lurker like me misses the opportunity...
    30 May 2013, 08:21 AM Reply Like
  • Going to reply to my own comment since I don't comment much :-)... Being a lurker, I stopped by the Y! board to see what's going on since I haven't been there in a while and noticed the AXPW bashing seems to have recently subsided or even stopped completely. Is it possible that those paid to smear the stock have moved? Maybe whoever wanted the negativity got what they wanted and will now let the PPS rise?
    30 May 2013, 08:41 AM Reply Like
  • Hard to blog when your in restraints at Bellvue.
    30 May 2013, 08:52 AM Reply Like
  • Not sure which board you went to, CoryM but I just checked and am writing this comment on my way to the hospital for a de-lousing and round of antibiotics.


    That other board remains a fortified compound of for-profit disinformation and malice.


    30 May 2013, 12:37 PM Reply Like
  • Ballard Power (BLDP) more than doubles within a month. Are fuel cells going to be the next big "sexy" trade? I'm thinking people haven't thought through this H2 generation & storage thing but reality and momentum aren't really part of the same world most of the time.

    30 May 2013, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • I got bitten by the FC bug over 5 years ago and 'invested' in all the companies, only to watch some fold and some to go through the valley of death. The remaining companies (FCEL, HYGS, BLDP and PLUG) are real.


    To me, the most amazing is FCEL. So, that's where I've speculated most, though I have smaller 'investments' in the others.


    HYGS has the fewest shares and they are in the most niches, both in supply of hydrogen and in making electricity. I like their management. You might enter when it is back around $10.00 and expect that if it pans out they will have multiple splits.


    FCEL is a company that makes FCs for the grid. They have over 50 units installed in Asia, Europe and the US and have a backlog of orders of over $350,000,000, actually much more but the figure escapes me. It seems to be an extremely conservatively run company. They have just doubled production and are looking at profitability this year or next. So, they are at more than 1 shift till 2016 based on current orders, and they need to run two shifts to be profitable.


    I do not believe these are flavors of the month, per se. They are now being noticed.


    Finally, the whole FC thing is so well described by the
    elephant hunter's graph, that it takes some of the load off waiting around with AXION as they do their graph thing.
    30 May 2013, 07:39 PM Reply Like
  • One of the stocks I sold to buy more AXPW has doubled in the last few months (SRI). Kind of sucks to watch that happen. Then again, I also sold my XIDE to buy Axion, so I guess it is a wash.
    30 May 2013, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • The opportunity cost of holding AXPW is definitely getting to the point that some stellar returns are necessary to compensate.
    30 May 2013, 10:52 AM Reply Like
  • I wonder what type of a jump would AXPW shares get in the event of an OEM supply contract, but a 20%+ jump on the day can not be ruled out I think!
    30 May 2013, 10:57 AM Reply Like
  • I think +20% from us overweight Axionistas alone...
    If it's a major OEM with news spreading, we should see much more. We need fresh buyers more than anything else. Look at how many people here say they sold other stocks to buy AXPW. We can't buy any more no matter what good news comes!
    That's why I'm very hopeful for the conference going on today, and potential PRs in June/July.
    30 May 2013, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • Let's pray that TG handles the PR machine well this time :)


    With a major OEM contract win, the market will price the market cap of Axion well above the current 30 million I hope!
    30 May 2013, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • A potential PR for July would be the announcment of the DOE phase II grant awards.
    30 May 2013, 11:12 AM Reply Like
  • I think that TG will mention the shopping for a tier-1 battery supplier for BMW today, since that is now "in the wild". Folks at the conference that may not have been following as we have should see that as a *strong* signal that AXPW has achieved acceptance by a major player in the industry.


    *That* implies coming scale-up in all manufacturing categories and, eventually, balance sheet and income statement.


    I don't see any way, if that is highlighted there, that it doesn't bring in at least the more aggressive large-money investors.


    30 May 2013, 11:12 AM Reply Like
  • TG will likely mention the discussions with BMW's battery supplier at the conference, but investors may want to be cautious and wait until a contract is inked before committing capital allocation.


    Just my two cents!
    30 May 2013, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna: That's why I figured "more aggressive". I'm sure that he'll mention BMW made the introductions. Folks put 2 + 2 together, knowing that if BMW tells one of their major suppliers, who have a great dependency on BMW business, "I want to be able to buy this from you", it will carry a lot of weight and *almost* assures some kind of deal with one or more of BMW's suppliers.


    I think many folks at such conferences aren't like us. They have resources to deploy and are likely not bottom-feeders or known for being *too* conservative. They likely "play the numbers", along the lines of one or two big winners makes up for the other eight or nine big losers. I'm guessing it's similar to VC folks in the "green space".


    30 May 2013, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • The story has changed a lot since TG's last investment conference.


    1. The first set of batteries have been delivered to NS
    2. ePower is reporting great results in road tests
    3. Automation of the sheeting has stripped out 75% of the labor
    4. New players are testing stop-start & APU for trucking
    5. BMW is pushing for relationships with other manufacturers
    6. There is an un-named industry partner on the SBIR Phase II
    7. The urgent need for capital has been resolved
    8. The stock price is wallowing near an all time low


    When you make a list of the major recent news there's a lot more to like than there has been in the past.
    30 May 2013, 11:43 AM Reply Like
  • Let's not forget that, due to the improvement of the continuous roll carbon sheeting process, ePower saw a 25%+ increase in available battery amperage.


    30 May 2013, 12:15 PM Reply Like
  • John,


    As I suspect you have seen this movie many times during your career with small companies moving into an above tier. In your experience, how does the market expectation of the capitalization of an emerging commercial company change in the event of, say, a big contract win?


    30 May 2013, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • Nice list John, thanks. Were you being a bit conservative on the 75% number in #3? I seem to remember it was closer to 90%.
    30 May 2013, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • I think the number is probably closer to 90% when you figure that it takes 95% of the labor out of the most labor-intensive process, but it never hurts to err on the conservative side when the company hasn't said much.


    Some years ago Bob Lutz did an interview where he said the labor content of an Exide starter battery was about 6 minutes. Since the rest of the battery manufacturing process is so highly automated, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the old sheeting process was over 90% of the total labor.
    30 May 2013, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • The story has changed a lot. In it's efforts to promote the company, maybe Axion should update the investor presentation on the website that still has a 2011 date on it.
    30 May 2013, 01:33 PM Reply Like
  • I'd expect TG to use a new presentation for Markum and will drop him a note that posting it on the website is probably a good idea.
    30 May 2013, 01:37 PM Reply Like
  • JP - the list indeed leaves me BREATHLESS as a recap.


    We're all waiting for what causes SECOND WINDS.


    Instant race horse bettors cause blips for a week for the weak.


    Faithful to death Investors hang on for the real Missouri Proof: show me the real manufacturing/producti... numbers backed up with or by continuing orders from any of the segments.


    Real commitment? Doubt if any of that will be expressed today. Jockey's, mount your horses.
    30 May 2013, 01:49 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan, a company I rolled some of my AXPW proceeds into, OHRP, also presented today at the same conference. They are similar to Axion in some important ways, including tight expense controls, negative cash flow, a recent cap raise, huge potential with a breakthrough product that should meet unmet needs, and a desire to attract additional institutional investors, yet their CEO's presentation was webcast live, with easy-to-follow updated slides.


    Would have been nice to hear Granville speak and follow his accompanying slide presentation. Maybe he was/will be webcast live, and I missed it? In which case, good job Granville.
    30 May 2013, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • Can I get an Amen, brother ... Amen.
    30 May 2013, 02:27 PM Reply Like
  • The good news is that the stk price doesn't reflect any material value from mgmt's selling of the story, so that component of the stk price can only get better as or if mgmt gets better at it. Here's to hoping.
    30 May 2013, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • Axions presentation doesn't start until 3pm EDT.
    30 May 2013, 02:35 PM Reply Like
  • Actually at 3:30 and invitation only. There are 10 rooms in use at the same time. Companies are somewhat sorted by industry. Other companies in the same room at different times of the day:


    9:00 am - 9:30 am Texas Rare Earth Resources Corp (TRER)
    9:30 am - 10:00 am Lightbridge Corporation (
    10:00 am - 10:30 am Trio Resources Inc. (TRII)
    10:30 am - 11:00 am OTC Markets Group Inc (OTCM)
    11:00 am - 11:30 am WidePoint Corporation (
    11:30 am - 12:00 pm Document Security Systems, Inc. (
    12:00 pm - 1:30 pm Lunch
    1:30 pm - 2:00 pm Acorn Energy, Inc. (
    2:00 pm - 2:30 pm GreenHunter Energy, Inc. (
    2:30 pm - 3:00 pm TBD
    3:00 pm - 3:30 pm Puresafe Water Systems Inc (PSWS)
    3:30 pm - 4:00 pm Axion Power International, Inc. (AXPW)
    4:00 pm - 4:30 pm Pulse Seismic Inc. (PLSDF)
    4:30 pm - 5:00 pm Profire Energy, Inc. (PFIE)


    As you can see they are lumped in with some other energy plays. I acutally sold some Pulse Seismic to buy some of my AXPW stake last summer.
    30 May 2013, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • I can't find the webcast link anywhere. Is Granville being webcast?
    30 May 2013, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • Twitter hashtag for the conference:
    30 May 2013, 02:55 PM Reply Like
  • As I said above. Attendance by invitation only and therefore no webcast.


    At the same time there is an agenda run by Marcum somewhat for the companies themselves. Unfortunately the best session for TG to attend is when he is speaking at 3:00.


    Investor Communication in the Age of Social Media 3:00-4:00


    Bradley Smith, PR Newswire


    Thomas Runzo, Equisolve
    David Gentry, RedChip Companies
    Deborah Meshulam, DLA Piper
    Jeff Corbin, KCSA


    •What you can and cannot say or do
    •Implementing effective shareholder targeting Strategies
    •Building liquidity in a micro cap stock
    •Methods to communicate with shareholders and prospective shareholders
    30 May 2013, 02:57 PM Reply Like
  • Good list of 12 horses to bet on today. Let the games begin.


    Real bettors probably would have gathered as much data as possilbe before the show, not???? And placed their bets accordingly, ahead of the show; and then waited for the surprises, if then adjust accordingly.
    30 May 2013, 02:59 PM Reply Like
  • Naked-


    That is just in one room of the conference. There are 9 others like it.


    The room they are presenting in has a probable capacity of 80 people. The key is hopefully one larger fish who takes something away and does more research.


    All we need is one or two.
    30 May 2013, 03:08 PM Reply Like
  • As I said, OHRP's presentation at 11:00am EST this morning was webcast live, with replay available afterwards. Open and free to anyone who clicked the "Webcast" link in their PR. The link opened up their slide pres and the audio feed. Free replay afterwards, too.
    30 May 2013, 03:08 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty - so like 100 horses in todays race(s).
    30 May 2013, 03:18 PM Reply Like
  • I think if Marcum LLP advisors & TG/Dantam are even halfway on the ball, Axion's presentation will include one or more sizable "green/clean" energy storage projects using PbCs that attendees can invest in very near term.
    30 May 2013, 03:24 PM Reply Like
  • I just spoke to Allen & McCarron (sp), who said you can't watch Granville's presentation live, but they will put up something later.
    30 May 2013, 03:31 PM Reply Like
  • MrI: Hooray!


    30 May 2013, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv, I don't know what you mean.


    Marcum Group is just the host for the conference. Unrelated to Maxim Group, the recent cap raise placement agent, as far as I know.
    30 May 2013, 03:42 PM Reply Like
  • Mr. I- I missed your comment about OHRP. When I contacted Marcum about a delayed webcast/slides/listening I was told it was not available and stopped there. I assume that if they were not going to webcast it they wouldn't let the companies.


    Hopefully we see/hear something from AXPW soon.
    30 May 2013, 03:58 PM Reply Like
  • I already decided to sock them away in Direct Registration Service as long term options, maybe someone loses his shorts ;)
    30 May 2013, 04:05 PM Reply Like
  • mr h,


    Not sure how one small unknown company gets webcast and the other doesn't. Maybe Marcum charged a fee that Axion was unwilling to pay.


    Anyway, I hope Allen & McCarron is right and we get to see something. But just being at the conference is a good start for what we all hope is Axion's dramatically improved IR and PR efforts. No excuses anymore to get the word out big-time. The PbC is awesome and ready to rock. But the deep-pocketed investor world needs to be told.
    30 May 2013, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • MrI ... Thanks for the pick up on my confusion of Marcum and Maxim. My remark would have more appropriately read Maxim and TG/Dantam. AND, I might have also included mention of a financing vehicle for ePower truck conversions. Axion could well help itself by helping others purchase PbCs.
    30 May 2013, 04:19 PM Reply Like
  • Someone correct me if I'm wrong; I understood that the combined improvement from Energy and Power increases was around 25% with the new, automated production, carbon sheet product.
    30 May 2013, 05:31 PM Reply Like
  • >siliconhillbilly ... As I remember, the increase was in Energy acceptance (storage) on lower internal resistance.
    30 May 2013, 05:34 PM Reply Like
  • Mr I: I couldn't find an OHRP in the SA portfolio search. WTF?
    30 May 2013, 05:38 PM Reply Like
  • SA puts a .OB tag on all OTC securities.


    If you try OHRP.OB Ohr Pharmaceutical, Inc. comes right up.
    30 May 2013, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • Mr D-inv, no problemo. While a Financial Advisor, I had to be extremely sensitive to what people were really saying. Hard sometimes to do that here. One of the limitations of a blog.


    Anyway, Excellent idea for someone to offer financing options for some of the products that use the PbC: cars, trucks, and PowerCubes for example. A buyer already has such options for a BMW, of course. ePower trucks and PowerCubes, hmmm. Axion certainly doesn't yet have the financial wherewithal to offer it themselves, which means a lender or other party would have to offer it. Hard to imagine a traditional fin'l institution doing it, as the value of the collateral is so uncertain, for now. That leaves non-traditional sources, like lenders that sometimes can be onerous to the point of irrelevence, and "partners", like Rosewater and ePower.


    I would guess that for the next few years, financing won't be high on Axion's to-do list for some products, such as ePower's trucks. First things first. Gotta have a well-sorted out product to sell in the first place.
    30 May 2013, 05:47 PM Reply Like
  • >siliconhillbilly ... I didn't find any articles or chart. Just news items



    And on the Yaba-Doodle site



    Nice spec. Has no debt. Looks a lot like Axion a few years back in the "Key Statistics", but being Pharma financials are meaningless as long as they have the money to stay open and something in the pipeline.
    30 May 2013, 05:49 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks, JP.


    siliconhillbilly, if you go to the Investors tab on Ohr's website:



    and click on "Marcum Microcap Conference 2013 Presentation May 30, 2013", up pops this window:



    Just fill in the four fields, click Submit, and up pops today's investor presentation, where Ohr's CEO is introduced by a Marcum partner, then speaks, with accompanying slides, for 1/2 hour.


    OHRP has actually had a nice run here recently, after consolidating for some time.
    30 May 2013, 06:02 PM Reply Like
  • Outside of 2 and 6, a lot on that list had been assumed (rightly or wrongly) - often the news was considered ho-humm when announced.


    Most here already assumes that Axion is/was in various negotiations with different OEMs - but we all know how long/slow the process can be; heck some even think BMW is doing fleet testing already.


    Anyhow, I hope all new Epower and SBIR announcements move the needle in ways BMW/NS couldn't. As far as stock price lows and capital needs having being resolved, I'm not sure they are positives to the new institutional eyes.
    30 May 2013, 06:46 PM Reply Like
  • DRich, Ohr says they have enough cash to last until at least January 2015. Plenty of runway for them to prove out the moon-shot investment thesis---the interim Phase II results for their eye drops for wet AMD are expected within a year. Refreshing to have such a short necessary holding period compared to what we've gone thru with AXPW!


    A few catalysts in the meantime, too, such as an uplisting to Nasdaq from the OTCBB expected soon.


    If any of you guys have any comments about the investment potential, let me know. That would be great. You might even like what you see and find that it's an excellent investment opportunity for yourself. I have already bought some shares, I should say.


    FYI, after reading about the BMW news in Axion's 10-Q, I re-established a position in AXPW, albeit smaller than I had before.
    30 May 2013, 07:16 PM Reply Like
  • Re: OHRP -


    haven't investigated this at all other than a Google search, which flipped a neuron:


    You should Google "Squalamine Feuerstein" as part of your due dilegence, e.g.,






    Adam Feuerstein has written on Biotech at for a long time. He's not perfect by any stretch, (and no, I don't exactly what his track record is) but I at the least pay attention when he comes out very strongly against a company. And yes, I recall he tried to make it as I believe a hedge fund guy for a while, and gave it up (was fired?) and went back to TSC.
    30 May 2013, 08:25 PM Reply Like
  • wtb,


    Thanks. Differences of opinion are what make a mkt a mkt. Good to see what the criticisms of squalamine are. Looks like Feuerstein slams a lot of drugs and stocks---calls himself a skeptic, after all.


    I've read what are, in effect, the rebuttals to his criticisms. Seems to me the rebuttals are reasonable and cumulatively make more sense. For example, squalamine has a short half-life, which is problematic when administered via an IV. No wet AMD patient wants or can afford to get an IV every day or every other, especially when 1x-2x/month shots are available. So the dosing was not frequent enough to achieve consistently good results---vision improved right after an IV but then declined until the next one. The 2x per day eye drops get around the short half-life limitation by keeping the trough concentration much higher.


    But I'm still digging.
    31 May 2013, 02:55 AM Reply Like
  • Not only that, they have to build large positions, so they aren't going to wait for news to hit. They need to at least leg in before the volume hits.
    30 May 2013, 11:33 AM Reply Like
  • How are the early runners doing in the schedule? Any price movements or announcements or surprises so far today for any of them???? Any fireworks???
    30 May 2013, 03:05 PM Reply Like
  • More on heavy vehicles from me:


    Bombardier trying to get into fast-charging of buses.


    "Electric buses are the hot public transport product. At the UITP event, held at the vast Palexpo exhibition site near the Geneva airport, there was hardly a diesel bus on display.


    Electric or hybrid technology (a combination or diesel and battery power) were ubiquitous. Some were plug-in electrics with short ranges. Others used hydrogen fuel cells."



    A 2nd article on flash-charging buses. ABB is investing:
    30 May 2013, 03:25 PM Reply Like
  • 05/30/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (up later).
    # Trds: 38, MinTrSz: 200, MaxTrSz: 91462, Vol 221542, AvTrSz: 5830
    Min. Pr: 0.2650, Max Pr: 0.2739, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2713
    # Buys, Shares: 14 48000, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2720
    # Sells, Shares: 24 173542, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2711
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:3.62 (21.7% “buys”), DlyShts 49700 (22.43%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 28.64%


    The most important thing, I think, is to note that we again had a large, 112,642 shares, bid at $0.272 at the open. It was from CDEL and I think my thought that yesterday was ATDF was incorrect. Anyway, it just sat there and no one wanted to jump ahead on the bid. Consequently, through 11 trades prior to 10:27, only one was a buy as the sellers were apparently seeing this as a gift from God. The sell percentage in that period was 99.6% on 126.8K shares.


    Fortunately, subsequent action was more normal and there was actually some price negotiation going on. The next 94.7K shares, which took from 10:27 through the close, had a sell percentage of 49.85% (buys 50.16%), approximately 1:1. This would've made a nice day if that second segment had more volume. It was able to maintain price, even setting the high for the day. The low during that period, matching the the day's low (set by the prior trade, 7.5K total shares in these two trades at $0.265 at 10:24 & 10:27) was never revisited. VWAP for this second segment was $0.2706 (excluding that trade matching the low, it's $0.2708).


    We closed up 0.70% (+$0.0019 YIPPEE! Better than a sharp stick in the eye!).


    The question going forward is will the sellers now maintain some discipline or go hell-bent for leather at the first not absolutely ugly bid that comes along.


    On the mundane, average trade size is right back in the middle of what I think is retail. The buy:sell, although low, was not abhorrent, especially considering the early-day action I described above. Daily short sales continue to behave as expected and volume is back below all the averages – not surprising the price behavior yesterday and today. I'm sure some folks are just sitting out this odd behavior for now.


    My original inflection point calculations, which considers only volume and buy:sell, reacted as we might expect. The one-day change for the six periods had four weaken and the other two strengthen only marginally. The five-day changes had only one strengthen and the rate of change over five days for the periods had five weaken as well. My newer version, which has additional considerations, had one-day changes IMPROVE for five of the six periods. The change over five days had five improve and the average change over the five days had five improvements s well. Yesterday I mentioned the two shortest periods had moved above zero and expected the 25-day to do so today if we didn't get weakening. Thanks to the action in the first hour, described above, it didn't quite make it. It's at -0.69. If the action tomorrow can just maintain at least as well as it did today, the 25-day should move above zero, putting the three shortest-term calculations suggesting a trend up has begun.


    Another notable item is that there was NO after-hours trade today.


    Details of “Dly Sht % of 'sells'” and inflection points omitted here.


    30 May 2013, 06:10 PM Reply Like
  • Hi everyone!!


    Today 5000 I added more and therefore out of the market.
    30 May 2013, 06:41 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria, I'm glad you posted today, I miss the positive nature of your contributions! Thanks
    30 May 2013, 09:32 PM Reply Like
  • Carlos, esto es todo?
    30 May 2013, 07:53 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane:


    No, MUCHAS MAS!!!


    Have a good day-Carlos
    31 May 2013, 04:21 AM Reply Like
  • If you follow Tesla this is a good top level article on what they are up against in automotive.


    How can tiny Tesla compete against the big auto makers?


    "... The point is, the world’s biggest auto makers, with combined revenue not in the billions but the trillions, are on the cusp of launching an EV offensive – fuel cells included – that will most certainly have an impact on Tesla. The EV space is about to get very, very crowded with companies anxious to win market share and earn profits.


    Tesla appears to have a very good Model S, but as anyone should see, the company faces massive challenges on many fronts. The big car companies have deep pockets and a rich reserve of technological resources and capabilities. They all have wide-ranging supplier networks, not to mention established global sales, service and distribution networks needed to support EV customers as they become owners of used EVs and EVs that break under warranty. That’s the reality.?

    30 May 2013, 08:30 PM Reply Like
  • IIndelco: Sorry, but I don't think Big Auto is at all interested in silliness like H2 fuel cells or battery EVs. They crank out PR about their concept cars and their "future plans", but I doubt they really believe in it.


    Having said that, I don't think tz-laa has any long term future either. Nice toy for the rich, not anything like a sustainable product.
    31 May 2013, 04:30 PM Reply Like
  • SiHB, Well the autos sure have spent one heck of a ton of money investing in both. That being said, they do spend quite a bit of money to make sure they don't get caught with their pants down when it comes to game changing tech.


    Musk may survive as a lux car maker but in the overall scope of things he's really just an annoying distraction if you're really looking for things to make automotive more efficient. He's one of the Kardashians of automotive. Well, except he's far far brighter.
    31 May 2013, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • sh.....Bob Lutz answer
    31 May 2013, 04:46 PM Reply Like
  • LT: Lutz said "But the whole thing is five to 10 years away."


    Make that 10-20 years and I might give a small nod. Physics and electrochemistry just don't change. But I will admit that using nanotech to perform the supercatalyst function and maybe carbon nanotubes for very low short range resistance and SOMETHING could happen. Maybe a better air/oxygen electrode. Sodium air then might make it. I don't know. But it needs much better design on the nanometer level than we have today. Precise control of molecules, ions and electrons to a degree not imagined 10 years ago.
    31 May 2013, 04:59 PM Reply Like
  • Speaking of Lutz.


    He has a small business turning (Hybrid) Fisker Karmas into Detroit steel.


    Bob Lutz: I Want Fisker To Live And Succeed


    <A Fisker Karma that VL Automotive has yanked the plug-in hybrid powertrain (motor and batteries) from, then replaced it with a LS9 engine from the Chevy Corvette ZR1, a supercharged 6.2L rated at 638-hp>


    That and a face lift you have a VL automotive product called a Destino. (The L in VL stands for Lutz.)


    I assume that is part of the reason why:


    Bob Lutz/VL Automotive Fronts New Bid By Wanxiang To Buy Fisker (Update: For $20 Million)


    And as long as were talking about Fisker:


    Henrik Fisker Lines Up To Buy Back His Namesake, Fisker Automotive


    The bid is over $21 million now.
    2 Jun 2013, 11:57 PM Reply Like
  • Capstone Turbine Receives Order for Hybrid UPS for Green Data Center Owned by Nation's Largest Natural Gas Distribution Utility


    CHATSWORTH, Calif., May 30, 2013 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE)



    "Capstone's Hybrid UPS is the world's first UPS system that integrates low-emission microturbines directly with a dual-conversion UPS to provide low-emission and highly reliable power for mission-critical loads."


    "When used in a UPS application, the Capstone Hybrid UPS units emit ultra-low greenhouse-gas emissions and do not produce hazardous materials common with traditional battery-based UPS systems, which makes them the optimal clean-and-green power system for SoCalGas," said Darren Jamison, Capstone's President and Chief Executive Officer.


    ??? "Since its market introduction in 2008, Capstone's Hybrid UPS..."
    30 May 2013, 08:52 PM Reply Like
  • I looked for this older article on a "future world" cooling system in light of the recent discussion on inverter/battery cooling.


    New tech cools batteries 50-80% more than liquid cooling

    30 May 2013, 09:21 PM Reply Like
  • ii,
    I am more interested in passive cooling. This company has some very interesting material, meant for use as thermal packaging.



    According to this recent NASA proposal, they are "working with a well known automotive manufacturer with integration of CarbAl into hybrid vehicle inverter packs."



    I believe JP used to work with this company years ago...I am invested in them currently. This is why I researched/posted about inverter thermal problems in the first place.
    Another otc company where you have to track down any info for yourself.
    30 May 2013, 10:26 PM Reply Like
  • I did their IPO in September of 1992 before taking a job in industry for a couple years. The lessons I learned about the difference between the leading edge and the bleeding edge were priceless. I haven't followed them closely for years, but the focus of how they're going to make money has changed with startling regularity, which is never a good sign.
    31 May 2013, 07:33 AM Reply Like
  • Milhouse, Thanks. I like passive if the cost numbers work out. Better not to impart parasitic loads if possible. Can't disregard mass in motive apps either though.
    31 May 2013, 07:58 AM Reply Like
  • Sounds like a complicated and expensive system. No "breakthru" that I can see. I seems to add fancy ( read: expensive) control interfaces to existing technologies. PR engineering.
    3 Jun 2013, 12:51 PM Reply Like
  • One of our known Axionistas who doesn't care to be publicly identified in this context advised me that he was the individual behind Wednesday's (and Thursday's carryover) bids for AXPW at .272 cents per share.


    At about 3 PM EST on Wednesday he entered an order (through TDAmeritrade) to purchase 300,000 shares of AXPW at a limit of .272. This limit was above market at the time, which was then about .259 asked.


    He was rather surprised at just how scarce shares available for purchase were.


    Only 187,358 shares of the order were filled in that final hour Wednesday:
    4,400 shares at .259
    2,500 shares at .2599
    2,500 shares at .26
    2,500 shares at .262
    7,808 shares at .2623
    2,500 shares at .2624
    25,000 shares at .2629
    25,000 shares at .265
    5,000 shares at .267
    2,500 shares at .268
    5,000 shares at .269
    30,150 shares at .27
    72,500 shares at .272


    It took a further 55 minutes after Thursday's opening to fill the 112,642 share remaining balance of his order:
    15,380 ... 9:44 AM
    3,000 ... 9:46 AM
    2,800 ... 10:10 AM
    91,462 ... 10:25 AM (times listed are those of confirmation emails)


    The day after AXPW's recent low at .2001 (April 29) he had attempted for about two and a half weeks to bottom fish 100K shares at .2020. In light of Axion's recent vastly improved corporate outlook he concluded that fishing so low would prove ridiculously unproductive.


    He then attempted, instead, to fish for 200K shares at .2402 (close under market range) - maintaining that bid for a further week. Were present circumstances anything like those of last summer or fall, he anticipated that a seller of size would eagerly seize the opportunity to unload quantity, albeit at the low end of current market. Such bids of his =were= usually quickly successful back then, when our big uglies were unloading.


    His assessment today is that the market for Axion shares has undergone a massive sea change and tightened very substantially - especially for anyone trying to deploy significant capital into Axion. He anticipates that anyone eyeing Axion but waiting for all i's to be dotted and t's to be crossed re: corporate developments will wind up paying dearly for shares - especially if quantity is sought.


    Hence his decision to lay in these 300,000 shares by offering a (then) above-market price.


    He believes it likely that Axion will shortly move to resume trading in the .30 to .35 cent range and that any major positive news will rocket the stock as shins and elbows get bruised when latecomers jockey to enter the Axion arena seeking large new positions in the company.


    N.B.: This Axionista took it as a very significant portent that Bob Averill sought the opportunity, through this recent financing, to deploy an additional $735,000 of his own funds into Axion at this time.


    I think it very generous that this person provided this recounting. It provides a contrary opinion to my assessments that sellers we're "too easy" (although, I of course, remain unconvinced !! :-).


    My thanks to that person.


    For future context, Wednesday was 5/29 and Thursday was 5/30/2013.


    31 May 2013, 06:00 AM Reply Like
  • thx unnamed + HTL
    31 May 2013, 06:47 AM Reply Like
  • "my assessments that sellers we're "too easy"


    And today, I give them kudos for (self) discipline. No, not that kind - the *good* kind! :-))


    The results are apparent to me even before I do all my gobbledy-gook stuff.


    31 May 2013, 05:07 PM Reply Like
  • HTL, great story. Thanks to you and the buyer for sharing.


    FYI, I saw how long it was taking for the shares to be sold to the big buyer, so I bought a few myself yesterday (I'm still pretty low on shares, anyway, lol). Took over 6 minutes for my buy order to execute, even though I bought at the ask price in the volume indicated. That's the slowest I've ever seen a mkt buy order execute for my AXPW purchases over the last 16 months.
    31 May 2013, 05:28 PM Reply Like
  • Buenos días amigos!!


    Clarify: Yesterday I bought 5K shares more. All my actions are stored and very well maintained. Continuous waiting for $50.o to sell.


    Now TESLA is above $100 and why AXION can not reach the $ 50.oo?


    Buen día-Carlos
    31 May 2013, 09:22 AM Reply Like
  • Lux is forecasting a $10.4 billion grid market in 2017, but it has concluded that partner or perish is the natural order in a very crowded market.



    I have a copy of their report but its way too complex to try and write about because their charts showing partnering arrangements among almost a 1,000 market participants look more like a fireworks display than anything else.


    The bottom line for me is that grid is a pretty murky path forward and nowhere near as simple as direct paths in rail, trucking and SS.
    31 May 2013, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • >JP ... I've got no clue what Lux thinks about grid systems but from reading about the demonstrations the utility companies sponsor I don't think there is a good handle yet on what works. The tell for me has been that all the demonstration projects seem to all be looking for that one silver bullet solution instead of piecing together & testing small systems that function up to expectations.


    It is encouraging that East Penn is demonstrating their Ultra-Battery, which is as close to a one stop solution as I've seen at a reasonable cost, but it doesn't really work for reasons Ed Buiel has pointed out. When that day arrives Axion, Maxwell & others should get a call. Until then I think Lux is not overstating the dollars just the time.
    31 May 2013, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • "Electric Power Politics: Net-Metering Gets Nasty"



    Thanks to Abaco at Investorvillage for the link.


    31 May 2013, 10:28 AM Reply Like
  • DRich, Are they motivated by what works or are they more motivated to have taxpayer dollars make the choice thus far? We will have to wait for the lithium blindness to wear off. One of the remedies for this form of blindness comes about from having to take out your own wallet.


    That being said I'm not looking for Axion to get a piece of this. Not even a small one. Behind the meter perhaps but not utility paid for anything.
    31 May 2013, 10:58 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks HTL. Interesting
    31 May 2013, 11:45 AM Reply Like
  • >iindelco ... There is a certain amount of go-along-to-git-along with utilities testing certain storage types because of tax subsidies but it is not a big deal. If you don't have a notion of what a good solution to a problem is then reducing the cost has to be a consideration. Fact is the utility companies have a big problem right now and it has nothing to do with Obama's War on Coal or whatever nonsense is wont to be believed. I've linked it before and do it again.



    If you look at the tables "Plant retirements and conversions" & "Oldest existing coal plants" you should see that the problem is here, now and started 50+ years ago. The USA has a large amount of old generation capacity that needs replacing ... NOW. The dilemma is how. Build big with updated coal fired, gamble on the price & availability of NatGas, go combined cycle and hope or build small with the same choices but add time shifting, efficiency gaining storage in combination with renewables. Anyway it goes it is big money to lay down with the caveat that the public and private sectors can't afford to be too wrong.


    Believe it or not, the regulators are moving toward a solution in fairly good order ... considering. Aside from not knowing the best road forward the biggest stumbling block is the public. Presented with the extremes of the Koch Bros. wanting to buy & operate worn out plants on bare-bone maintenance schedules and the extreme environmentalists wanting solutions that can't ever exist, the Public spends no time considering the problem or solution realistically.


    So many people I talk to don't even know about the problem ... just their favorite extreme position. Politicians react to what they hear about and that is the extremes. Money & courts most of the time and politically active people for 6-8 months every couple of years. The solution evades the majority of the population, until it breaks, and that is our own damned fault.
    31 May 2013, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • DRich, The government regulators took on this responsibility. They are the reason nobody wants to make 50+ year investments. Why would you risk your capital on the far shorter term whims of agencies like the DOE, EPA and errr (shall we say) election cycles?


    Technology is not the problem. It's the entity that took control. People don't walk and never buy a car because a better one is coming out next year. They choose what fits best and adjust when they choose/need to. Big difference.


    This is not a problem of the ignorant population. They have their own matters to focus on and they expect the people sucking funds out of their pay check every week to do their damn jobs right. It's the people feeding them BS that's the problem. Same bunch self serving ......
    31 May 2013, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • With as much AXPW as we own, it's painful to see a huge change in our portfolio due to a downtick fishing lure. Only 6k shares traded so far today. The stock is indeed getting scarce. Maybe it's time to start painting the tape.
    31 May 2013, 10:33 AM Reply Like
  • OK, Here, I'll buy some at .265.


    PS. OK some more at .268


    PPS OK .269.
    31 May 2013, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • .27? OK
    31 May 2013, 11:39 AM Reply Like
  • BTW, It will not make a difference. Axion Is now a "show me" stock. They have been mum for too long and it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. So we got some waiting to do.


    If the tech. is as good as we think it'll come. But if we keep languishing the upside will be tempered pretty heavily. Obviously.
    31 May 2013, 03:25 PM Reply Like
  • ...take care of the business and the stock will take care of itself...


    yes, but at some point, gotta take care of the stock*holders* a little. just a bone or two. maybe at the annual meeting...


    Pound the facts, pound the law, or pound the table, but fergawdsakes pound somethin' already. We don't need folks dropping out now. If we're really nearing the homestretch, it seems the worst time to stay quiet...
    31 May 2013, 03:58 PM Reply Like
  • Well, I was planning to tape paint today but that actually would have lowered the last sale price lol. Great finish!
    31 May 2013, 04:01 PM Reply Like
  • indelco,


    I don't doubt for a second that the technology is very good. Otherwise, we would be the most deluded bunch of investors in the world, and I don't think so ;)
    31 May 2013, 04:07 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna, Agreed. However, IF TG was managing the information stream correctly there is a higher probability that he could raise cash for a few pennies/share more for his script. He would also build a stronger fan base which I guess you might say would lead the stock as well. Individual investors and money managers need information to make informed decisions to invest, hold or walk. It's managements JOB to share information in a timely fashion to give those willing to do the currency for script trade the information they need to support their needs and the company.


    Just imagine if John and a few others were not doing TG's job. How the hell would you invest in this thing? Axion who. The soap, sneaker or farm machinery guys? Well let's Wiki it, Axion, The axion is a hypothetical elementary particle... Well heck yeah, That makes sense! TG should sell those. ;)
    31 May 2013, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • Yes it is sad to see recently purchased lots go from green to red, however can always buy more at these prices!
    31 May 2013, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • I am certainly not saying that he should be given unlimited free pass on such things. After all, Axion has a management board and they are first and foremost there to look after their shareholders interests, so if they are not happy with TG, he will be replaced.


    I am willing to say that he deserves credit for the relationships he has worked so far to establish, but ultimately the decision whether he is the right man to lead Axion going forward rests with the board, and the majority shareholders, and I trust they are making the correct choice, for NOW.
    31 May 2013, 05:49 PM Reply Like
  • Everyone's strengths are different. TG's happens to not be stock promotion. We can't demand a change in CEO every time a weakness if found. We'd be doing that every quarter and Axion would get nothing done. I give TG credit for what he has built so far, and for what's to come. Heck, if he was a great stock promoter we wouldn't have had the chance to buy AXPW so low.
    31 May 2013, 06:01 PM Reply Like
  • Agreed Ranma. My point is that we have a board of directors that I trust are doing their job just fine :)
    31 May 2013, 06:13 PM Reply Like
  • I believe TG is the right man to lead Axion. However, he needs an experienced VP focused on communication and investor relations that he will listen to because whoever is advising him now is not doing a good job.


    JP has created a large following for Axion. A little communication could have been the difference between another $0.35 all equity raise and the potentially damaging raise that was forced down our throats. Unfortunately, we will never know b/c the way it "appears" by Axion's actions or inactions, i.e. cutting off the CC with many investors still on the line, they don't really give a hoot about the retail investor.
    31 May 2013, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  • In fairness, it's important to understand that investor relations is a full-time job if it's done properly and people who have the ability to do IR well are few and far between. The problem is that every public company has two essential products – the widget they sell to customers and a financial product that tends to underperform if it's not actively and consistently sold to the market.


    When I last wore an IR hat in the early 90s, I spent at least one-third of my time on the road talking to brokers, funds and anybody else who would listen. While I was very approachable, there weren't enough hours in the day to talk to all the stockholders who wanted hand holding. In the end I had to restrict access to individual whales and brokers who were actively working the stock and held at least a million shares in their client accounts.


    I'm the first to say that Axion's PR sucks, but I'm not at all confident that I could comply with their customer's confidentiality requirements and do a better job myself.


    I understand the problem but I also know there are no easy solutions.
    31 May 2013, 07:19 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco,


    Amen brother! It is hard to imagine investing in a company that has less information available. That is including this site, which does a good job of analysis, but the value is limited because there is so little to analyze. I doubled down before the raise and would like to double down again, but I just can't get comfortable about the "good news" of the conference call. The only short term opportunity I see is BMW. But given the vague way TG said everything I think it is very difficult to judge where they are. I would love to be convinced BMW was as great as TG implied.


    For example TG was excited about the Phase II. I think this is a good thing for the company and they should definitely pursue it, but that project is not going to be commercial for years. If they were really close to commercialization no real partner would let the possibility of $1M slow things down. They would just write the check. But to listen to TG this means the company is on the precipice of great things. I don't see how a Phase II application justifies that.


    I like Axion as a long term investment but I don't think the company is as undervalued as I once thought. I see a couple of more years before they really start to have sales.
    31 May 2013, 07:27 PM Reply Like
  • John,


    We obviously can't know how the NDAs limit him. If the company was as far along as TG tells us, there are things that he could say that would not violate any NDA. He could say we expect to see automobile sales of $X in the next Y months. He could give revenue projections for PbC batteries. If he really wanted to drive the point home he could say that he has agreed with the board that his bonus will be based on meeting these goals. It is ok if the company is not able to do this yet, but then don't tell us this is a commercial company. As many have pointed out on this site, they could update the web site. There are lots of things that would not be as costly or time consuming as what you are talking about that would be enormously helpful.
    31 May 2013, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • The silver lining is that Axion's IR/PR has been so sucky that almost any heartbeat at all will be an improvement. The micro-cap company I mentioned that was also presenting at the Marcum conference Thursday, who did a live webcast and instant replay, with slides, has only two employees. Two!


    Your mom & dad were darn right when they told you, "where there's a will there's a way." Axion's finally got some cash in the till for beefing up marketing. Spending a few of those bucks on IR/PR, and a few minutes here and there, would go a long, long way.


    Presenting at the conf was a good start. Now, keep it going.
    31 May 2013, 07:48 PM Reply Like
  • John, Not asking for TG to make it any more of a job than what it is now. He has an executive assistant. Hand her the presentation just given and post it on the corp. web site. Not asking to see the people he presented to risking exposing their possible investment choices. Not looking for a web cast so they are exposed. And if he's already presented the data on the presentation to them it doesn't violate any NDA's. So, Is that asking too much as an investor for him to post the PPT document?


    As an example look at the NSC web site. Under the investors page they post their executive presentations to financial institutions. They also do webcasts when appropriate but they are much larger so they have the resources.


    Yes, perhaps some expect more. I'm just asking him to post what's already been pumped into the public domain on some restricted basis. He's not managing a hedge fund.
    31 May 2013, 08:05 PM Reply Like
  • I believe the presentation TG used yesterday should be posted, and the sooner the better.
    31 May 2013, 08:20 PM Reply Like
  • I'm not an expert in securities law, but I wonder how Reg FD plays into this. The other micro-cap company I mentioned filed an 8-K today, for Reg FD purposes, ("The information contained herein is being furnished pursuant to Item 7.01 of Form 8-K, "Regulation FD Disclosure."") a mention of their investor presentation Thursday with a copy of the slides as an Exhibit, and a mention that the slide presentation will be available on their website.


    If the investors at the conference got info that we haven't gotten yet, that would be a problem with me, and maybe the SEC, too. I wonder how long of a delay is allowed in distributing any new info to everyone else. Or if new info is even the standard. So I'm thinking that no new info was presented, just a rehash of existing info for new eyes and ears.
    31 May 2013, 08:28 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks John. If you added a little inspiration I am grateful.
    31 May 2013, 08:52 PM Reply Like
  • As a matter of conservative practice, I think filing conference presentations as Reg FD disclosures is a good prophylactic measure, even if the substance has been fully communicated in other filings and press releases. It's not required, but I always prefer the high road when dealing with the SEC.
    31 May 2013, 09:03 PM Reply Like
  • I would also like that a transcript of a public presentation include the questions and answers at the end; seeing as how we get a lot of additional information at the end of each CC.
    1 Jun 2013, 12:04 AM Reply Like
  • JP - These are two truth statements worth acknowledging, and repeating often; reminds me of wearing someone else's moccasins:


    "...... but I'm not at all confident that I could comply with their customer's confidentiality requirements and do a better job myself.


    I understand the problem but I also know there are no easy solutions."
    1 Jun 2013, 12:17 AM Reply Like
  • 48 - investing is an "at risk" position; hence, investors beware. They are owed nothing more than what the SEC requires. Hype? Unfounded promises and predictions make for short term execs. Facts are preferred. The street and investors create more hype than going concerns can manage or rein in. So, best leave the hype beyond the exec quarters.


    Demanding grace is ridiculous.


    Sounds just like more worn-thin entitlement philosophy.
    1 Jun 2013, 12:25 AM Reply Like
  • ii - mismanaging info can ruin secure relationships and sometimes earn orange suits if not result in one looking for a new pedestal to pontificate from.


    TG has announced many times he has "restrictions" (and abides accordingly, which is wise).


    JP - has been more of an analyst; not a hypester.


    Both operating wisely, in my opinion.
    1 Jun 2013, 12:38 AM Reply Like
  • jcr - me thinks a prediction of 15 of the last 7 depressions would be impressive here.
    1 Jun 2013, 12:44 AM Reply Like
  • Fine - and TG probably says it's nothing more than another history lesson already broadcast - so one could say: well, if that's the case, prove it. Priorities? Scratching itches? Doing real work?
    1 Jun 2013, 12:48 AM Reply Like
  • If one of BMW's battery suppliers signs a contract with Axion, there will be a PR, and pps will jump significantly.


    There will also be a PR when NS 999 rolls out of the shop or ePower sells some units or NSC makes material progress on their PbC OTR locomotive.


    Day-to-day pps is the wrong place to focus when you invest in a speculative stock like AXPW. We are waiting for BIG news. When it comes, pps will take care of itself.


    I already told you guys, when MNKD was selling for 2.79, to find a stock you can make money on while Axion does what it has to do to put itself on the map. MNKD closed at 6.66 today and is going to go much higher in the NEAR TERM.


    AXPW will be selling for 5.00 or so in 2016.


    1 Jun 2013, 01:26 AM Reply Like
  • njb, I'm not demanding grace. I'm advocating that the company dedicate some focus to making its (highly worthy) case a bit more widely, and a bit more loudly, than we've thus far seen. I think it's the proper time for such, and I think it could be productive. And I think the company's existing investors, who are after all not barnacles, but rather agents of buoyancy, would greatly appreciate it.
    1 Jun 2013, 02:50 AM Reply Like
  • NJB -


    No one is demanding "grace" .... patience is a virtue of which the Axionistas clearly have plenty.


    People are demanding a little bit of straight talk and stating a year ago to fasten your seat belts and expect 300% gains in revenue (whether an honest mistake or not) and then going silent is not forthright.


    We are all aware of what Edison called battery salesman and silence is not helping the situation or the stock price. If some development does not come along, this last raise could be disastrous - just look at the participants and their track record with A123.
    1 Jun 2013, 03:02 AM Reply Like
  • billa, I thought the original NS announcement would give rise to a jump in price - instead it was a yawn.
    1 Jun 2013, 03:06 AM Reply Like
  • "When I last wore an IR hat in the early 90s, I spent at least one-third of my time on the road talking to brokers, funds and anybody else who would listen. While I was very approachable, there weren't enough hours in the day to talk to all the stockholders who wanted hand holding. In the end I had to restrict access to individual whales and brokers who were actively working the stock and held at least a million shares in their client accounts."


    JP, with all due respect, this is not the early 90s and hand holding is a little bit different now with the internet, It was relayed on the concentrator yesterday that "something" would be up on the site after the investor conference yesterday -- a one or two minute update to the website for all to see. To my knowledge, nothing has been posted. Moreover, Axion is aware of the retail interest that wants to ask questions on CCs. However, instead of engaging that interest, they stoke the fire by cutting the call early with many investors on the line. They are breeding distrust in New Castle.
    1 Jun 2013, 03:10 AM Reply Like
  • I think many would suggest you are still wearing your IR hat . =)


    You have done an outstanding job the past several years. Your articles and comments parsing the sparse news have helped keep Axion's stock from collapse.


    I doubt many could stay long these downdrafts without your guidance. Heck, mostly the stock still has been in a reasonable range going back to late 2011. If the stock ever does pop again, we all will look back at the opportunities we had to load up more below 40 cents.


    32-34 cents seems like resistance but that may turn into support if we can make a run come early Summer.
    1 Jun 2013, 08:06 AM Reply Like
  • As a post script to my last comment, there was a CC two years ago where the Q&A was completely cut off and TG made every effort to personally call back or email anyone that wanted to talk with him. That guy was good for Axion's investor relations - Where did that guy go?


    There was also an attempt to communicate with shareholders via the shareholder letter on October 3, 2012. Unfortunately, it focused on Rosewater and the Hub rather than the reasons people are really here.


    It kills me to speak my mind like this when I would rather be pouring over another white paper showing the world why the Power Cube kicks most other applications butts in frequency regulation or any other data confirming what we all seem to believe.
    1 Jun 2013, 09:06 AM Reply Like
  • Bazoooka> Just for grins let's assume that Axion's 50/50 shot at an SBIR Phase II award pays in early July (a/k/a next month).


    Now assume the Form 10-Q was not lying and a first tier automotive systems developer like Bosch, Valeo or even Continental has taken second billing on the SBIR Phase II marquee.


    What do you think the market impact will be to that kind high level industry and government support?
    1 Jun 2013, 09:18 AM Reply Like
  • JP: Very good question. Rest assured, I am hot on that trail.
    1 Jun 2013, 09:54 AM Reply Like
  • JP ... I think a repeat sale would do a great deal more for share price than an SBIR award. An SBIR award would get short-term press because of the associated funding while many investors would see the reality of an assured two further years of testing and development. I, for one, have no where near that amount of patience left.


    13 months have elapsed since NSC ordered batteries for its NS999 and five months have elapsed since NSC took delivery. That time line is steadily evolved into a negative for Axion, a negative which can only be overcome by significant follow on sales. NSC has announced plans for construction of yard-switcher and OTR battery powered locomotives this year, but the continuing passage of time without either rolling out PbC-populated NS999 or placement of P.O. for OTR batteries raises prospects of NSC's selection of an alternative technology.


    In the words of a widely known NFL coach of yesteryear -- "The future is now!"
    1 Jun 2013, 10:19 AM Reply Like
  • It's worth remembering that Valeo bought the electric supercharger featured in the LC Superhybrid.


    I don't expect you to get any joy from the FOIA process until after the DOE makes a decision, but you never know.
    1 Jun 2013, 10:20 AM Reply Like
  • I own stock in a nano-cap company which I have mentioned here before. On Sept. 17, 2012 they received "a Phase II Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) grant, in the amount of $999,990, from the U.S. Department of Energy to develop ultra lightweight hydrogen fuel tanks using carbon nanotube (CNT) reinforcement."
    The market could not have cared less, the share price did not move. And this is a company which had a $26 million market cap at the time. It now has a market cap of half that.


    As many have said on this board, the only thing that will move the share price with any significance is sales. Not agreements, gov't grants, memoranda of understandings. Just sales. Of batteries. IMO.
    1 Jun 2013, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • NJB, If you read my post I think you'll find I'm not asking for a special edition but just the same news paper that the neighbours already had delivered. Not even asking for an audience with the staff writer as a good throw from the papergirl will do just fine.


    I prefer to eat my mushrooms not aspire to emulating them.
    1 Jun 2013, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • i'd like the cash on the books. f the stock price. sales WILL move that, but money buys time.
    1 Jun 2013, 10:46 AM Reply Like
  • Mill house> It is worth noting that Applied Nanotechnology has had a million or two in total assets and an equity deficit that exceeds total assets for as long as the mind remembers. The bulk of its revenues for the last 20 years have come from SBIR grants and research projects. It's no closer to a product or sustainable business today than it was when I did the IPO in 1992.


    It is not an apt comparison to Axion.
    1 Jun 2013, 10:54 AM Reply Like
  • The original NS announcement was followed by 2 million shares traded - except at that time we had big uglies who needed to get out at all cost. They took that volume opportunity to sell, so the price did not jump.


    What do you think 2 million shares would have done on a day like yesterday? We'd be in the 30's at least. And that's just from us retail Axionistas.


    With any real sales agreement we'd get larger funds piling in. I've no doubt we'd hit 50's and above after a BMW or NS contract. If the market is still hot we'd probably get a spike to the 1's.
    1 Jun 2013, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • Any SBIR grant will come with performance commitments and likely shared with one or more "partners". And, the amount will be disbursed over time as "progress" payments. For example, the $150k phase I SBIR grant awarded last year was realized in two tranches with half of the proceeds not realized until early 2013.
    1 Jun 2013, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • The issue isn't so much cash on the balance sheet as an expected offset to R&D work the company would have done in any event.


    If the DOE funds reduce future operating losses, lengthen the cash runway and generate data that's useful to customers and more credible because of the grant funding there are at least three layers of benefit stacked one on top of the other.
    1 Jun 2013, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • 48 - understand right answer when told; and TG has stated what he could (can). More widely, and more loudly could be nothing more than hype - another cheerleading session (while the game is the real game). If the cheerleading is not what you expect or want, go to a different game.


    Greatly appreciating (expecting, hoping for, or demanding) what you don't deserve is fraught with disappointment, especially when you can't earn it. The giver gives; if you don't like it.........
    1 Jun 2013, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • stef - as you say, "stating a year ago to fasten seat belts etc.," could have been sufficient reason to go silent - no more hype! - no more loose talk! (plus maybe some reinforcement reminders from others that also have skin in the game [NDA agreements, PR release agreements, etc., be they BMW, NS or whomever]. So, mum is the word. Be patient. TG is interested in a product and sales; you're interested in a stock price. Makes sense. But the tail doesn't wag the dog. If you don't like being a tail, try being a dog.


    Not everyone dances to the beat of Madison Ave and Harvard teachings.
    1 Jun 2013, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  • stef - "They are breeding distrust in New Castle."


    1 Jun 2013, 01:23 PM Reply Like
  • njb ... Each of us has our own perspectives on Axion management and their policies. If you are comfortable with Axion's investor relations, good for you. I OTOH am much, much closer to 48' in my perspective on the matter than to you. I wonder if his perspective on self-righteous sermonizing by others is similarly close to mine.
    1 Jun 2013, 01:32 PM Reply Like
  • NJB -


    "TG is interested in a product and sales; you're interested in a stock price." - I am interested in all three.
    1 Jun 2013, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • D- one thing is true: they are all self-righteous sermonizing.
    1 Jun 2013, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • Stef - and in a healthy environment, the three are sequenced.
    1 Jun 2013, 02:44 PM Reply Like
  • JP,


    If the SBIR II came in solid I'd think the stock would pop to 35-45 cents. And only because we'd have you to help unravel the true benefit well beyond the cash received. I know too many who are overweight and would fade the news as they approach their break even. I would then think that the bottom on the stock is in. That would make the ride much easier for the rest who still see $1+ as attainable in 2013/2014 .
    1 Jun 2013, 02:50 PM Reply Like
  • NJB,


    I appreciate Stefan's "trust but verify" approach. It has served me well in the past in the micro-cap market.
    1 Jun 2013, 03:11 PM Reply Like
  • The SBIR is definitely a good thing and the company should pursue it. The three layers of benefits that John listed are real and good. They are worth less than $1M. There are some additional benefits in that there is the potential for a Phase III which could be significantly more money. Axion could get access to DOE expertise, which can be considerable. Axion can build credibility within DOE which could make it easier to get future programs, many of which could be many times bigger than an SBIR. There are considerable costs to preparing a good proposal. Let's hope they are better at communicating with DOE than they are at communicating with us.


    The other side of the Phase II is that any real benefit to the company is years away. I am concerned that placing so much emphasis on this is a mistake. What happens if they don't get the grant.


    The real problem is how do they either generate sales to cover costs or get the stock price up so that we don't have to through 2 or 3 more rounds of major dilution just to stay in business for another year. It is fine to say that you should take care of the business and the stock price will take care of itself eventually. That is fine for a business that is cash flow positive, where a low price just represents an opportunity to buy in. But for a company that is raising money the stock price is crucial to avoiding the kind of dilution that we have just seen. I don't see how the SBIR has anything to do with this.
    1 Jun 2013, 07:15 PM Reply Like
  • I'm still very long (for me) and kinda strong, but how can you call the performance around yesterday's presentation opportunity anything other than corporate/management opportunity malpractice?


    Still no new "Investor Presentation."


    BTW, the "corporate backgrounder" 4/25/13


    has a typo in the first line of "Recent Developments":
    the first line has a 2012 date ... it should have been 2013.


    On my first read I saw 2012 as the first line, got pissed, and didn't bother to read any further to figure out those below did has some 2013 dates. I ran off to publish this, and just now went back and figured out the typo.


    Anyway, obviously TG didn't inspire someone to run off and take down a slug. Okay, that would probably be unrealistic ... these are bigger boys who will do some due diligence ... which in this day and age, and with more young hedge fund managers (or their young up and coming employees who might get assigned the task), will involve going to web site and seeing what the company has to say.


    What they see will not impress. Come on guys, buy a vowel for Chr*st's sake!


    Unless they handed out materials on paper or some other media, even if we won one "player" who might share with a/some friends what he heard, what happens we THEY want to do some due diligence?


    Sadly, we have no way of knowing how well TG performed in the actual presentation ... which shouldn't surprise given that it's a recurring pattern for stockholders to be left in the dark :-(


    And yes, I understand that could have been way more important, but what I'm talking about is not unimportant in this day and age.
    31 May 2013, 11:53 AM Reply Like
  • And yes, I just sent an email to Axion Power Investor Contact <r.barrio at > about both items.


    Maybe if a few of us were to let him know we're not pleased, they might get the message.
    31 May 2013, 12:07 PM Reply Like
  • >wtblanchard ... Second the motion.
    31 May 2013, 12:11 PM Reply Like
  • I've let him know I'm not pleased several times over the past 2 years. Events occur and there is no PR. I agree, others should contact him as you see fit.
    31 May 2013, 01:32 PM Reply Like
  • BTW-2:


    When you're (to the [young?] and/or uninformed) "ancient" Lead Acid technology fighting the Lithium Ion PR wave/mindshare, it doesn't help if your web presence is either actually ancient (2011 presentation) or looks ancient. I'm happy they improved the web site, but it's also important to keep all parts of it current.
    31 May 2013, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • WTB, What are you sayin'


    You can draw attention with some nice clothing and a smile but you better have something to say! ;)
    31 May 2013, 12:36 PM Reply Like
  • wtb, TG cares nothing about axionista's ... we served our purpose and got the big uglies out. Now he's looking for new fish.


    It would be a hard sale for a young mgr. to sell a senior mgr. on the idea of a major investment in AXPW with their sales history, Big firms bought and took their loss and sold long ago, therefore gotta sell the boss that I am right and Blackrock is wrong?. So just what would be the catalyst?


    Plus, there is no urgency....there is 67 million more shares coming to mkt. soon. Plus more next year.
    31 May 2013, 02:51 PM Reply Like
  • oh btw... I love the phrase "Mgt. Malpractice" !
    31 May 2013, 02:53 PM Reply Like
  • Toyota talks hybrids. Starting to look at rolling them out more heavily in emerging markets.


    Pricing is far more sensitive. :)


    Hybrids — the way to go in emerging markets

    31 May 2013, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • Cost matters.


    Panasonic to Build Car Battery Factory in India for Operational Launch Next FY


    "-Panasonic Corp. (6752.TO) said Friday it will build a car battery factory in India as it makes a full-fledged foray into the country's booming auto market.


    The electronics giant is now looking for a suitable location for the battery plant as it targets an operational launch by March 2015.


    The move comes as Panasonic seeks to boost the overseas performance of its automotive parts segment, which is heavily reliant on the domestic market.


    The lead-acid battery plant will be the third of its kind overseas after factories in Thailand and China. Panasonic currently ships the batteries for use in the Indian car market from its Thai factory.


    But "in a big market (like India), we want to launch local production for the local market," said Yoshi Yamada, the head of the company's automotive and industrial systems business, at a meeting with reporters in Osaka.


    Some of the batteries to be made at the new factory will also be used for backup power equipment, he said.


    The development is part of the company's drive to expand its automotive sales abroad. Currently, only 40% of the segment's sales come from overseas, even though more than 90% of vehicles worldwide are sold outside Japan, suggesting far greater potential sales abroad.


    Beefing up the overseas sales will be a key to doubling annual revenue in the automotive segment to Y2 trillion by the fiscal year to March 2019, he said. Batteries and other equipment for hybrid and electric vehicles are also growth markets, as demand for those vehicles is growing as regulations for gas emissions are becoming stricter, he said.


    Panasonic aims to lift the operating profit margin of its automotive and industrial system operations to 5% from 1.2% over the next three years. It said it will achieve this partly by increasing the purchasing of cheaper overseas materials and streamlining production. Mr. Yamada also said that the company expects the unit's 111,000 work force to fall by 5,000 employees through attrition over that time period."

    31 May 2013, 05:56 PM Reply Like
  • LT eloquently spoken


    Sold my 500 shares of Tesla at $102, even though we all know it will get back under $5 in the future. Quadrupled in 4 months !
    At least there was a "ride" to be had, but will nowhere near make up for the fact I took a $500k + bath on Axion, thanks to Mr Granville at al.


    I guarantee when I look in at this concentrator a year from now, it will still be at a measly quarter, and the chatter will be on the "next" financing, just wish I had acted on my instincts earlier.
    31 May 2013, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • With due respect Johnny you've just proven yourself a bald faced liar. No wonder you refused to identify yourself when I asked you to send a private message with your real name.


    I know all of the old time Axion investors and I also know that nobody outside the founders group, Quercus and the big uglies invested anywhere close to $500,000 in Axion.


    It's really a shame that you proved your trollish intent in connection with your alleged sale of stock you never owned. Don't go away mad about being publicly undressed, but please go away.
    31 May 2013, 09:50 PM Reply Like
  • 500k turning into 12K that you then put into Tesla. Wowsers, at least you got back 10% of your original stake with Tesla's run from 25 to 100+. Maybe 10 years from now Tesla will be above 1000 and you will get even. Quite a tale indeed.
    1 Jun 2013, 07:42 AM Reply Like
  • Rambo


    How about you put your money where your mouth is


    I take AXPW. Each $.01 over $.25 a year from now you pay me $5,000 and each $.01 under $0.25 and I pay you $5,000


    You have made enough on Tesla - you can afford it
    31 May 2013, 05:09 PM Reply Like
  • If you are so sure of yourself and AXPW, you just buy half a million shares and you get your desired gains ;)


    PS: if you don't have that kind of money, you bet is BS anyway!
    31 May 2013, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • dlmca


    I think that idea would come under the heading 'throwing good money after bad"


    This management team could not organize a drunken party up in a brewery, so I made my call and I'm done, if anyone ever makes any money from this woofer, God bless you !
    31 May 2013, 09:07 PM Reply Like
  • Good bye
    31 May 2013, 09:13 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc,
    I think you have to remain patient, as we appear to be only half way just through Rambo II. Still much life left in the Rambo franchise.
    1 Jun 2013, 01:15 AM Reply Like
  • Quick comment. I just updated the 3 month search feature. The all APC search feature updates automatically so it always includes all APC's. The 3 month search requires deleting older APC's and adding new ones. All are fully up to date.


    While I currently do not have any AXPW stock it appears to be improving based upon HTL's report about the 300K share purchase. I'd will be a buyer again when the stock chart clearly shows an upward trend. I don't care about a one bagger from .27 to .54.
    1 Jun 2013, 04:23 AM Reply Like
  • One baggers aren't too bad. Most here have gotten their averages down under 60 cents (even the few who bought during the last hype cycle). A double would likely please the remaining Axionistas.


    I'm more worried about getting above 32 cents in the next few months though. I think the days of hoping for 5.00 to 10.00 might have lost a digit in the last few years - I'll take 2 bits at this point but then again I always seem to sell early and buy too late.
    1 Jun 2013, 07:36 AM Reply Like
  • I *still* stand by my statement that JR's "liquidation announcement" marks the biggest buy signal yet. Time will prove me right or wrong.
    1 Jun 2013, 05:23 AM Reply Like
  • Does make you wonder why he bothers to try and shake a few more Sells loose.
    1 Jun 2013, 08:23 AM Reply Like
  • US minimum wage is $7.25/hour, but trolls could be outsourced for less than that.
    1 Jun 2013, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • Ahhh. GM shifting gears in the US. Standard SS. Signs, signs everywhere signs. :-)


    2014 Chevrolet Malibu equipped with new 2.5L iVLC base engine with start-stop


    "Chevrolet unveiled the 2014 Malibu, featuring updated styling (and more rear seat room) and a new 2.5L base engine with variable valve lift control (Intake Valve Lift Control, iVLC earlier post) and start/stop technology as standard."

    1 Jun 2013, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • This is news on a couple fronts. Firstly it's a step back from the eAssist they used on the LaCrosse. More importantly its a dual 12-V battery system.
    1 Jun 2013, 12:24 PM Reply Like
  • John, From what I've read the eAssist is a reasonable sell when you compare a V6 to a V4. The Malibu has not fared so well in this regard because the 4 cylinder base engine does not offer the same level of contrast for efficiency. And with the smaller vehicle the 4 banger is adequate. Oh, and the Malibu is obviously a base level car so price sensitivity applies more.


    Anyway, back on point. This is a rather nice sign for we Axionistas. And your 2 battery point is very important. GM is saying the AGM battery isn't cutting it for SS loads and SLI combined. Not news for those coming here. You may have pointed this out at least once! :)
    1 Jun 2013, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • Sometimes I feel like a bit of a broken record so it's always fun when an outfit like GM makes a battery decision and concludes:

    1 Jun 2013, 01:02 PM Reply Like


    And yet... you have to acknowledge the enduring passion...& the power of same combined with stupidity. Miles to go before we sleep...
    1 Jun 2013, 05:22 PM Reply Like
  • 48, it's kinda pathetic. He thinks his two minutes are going to have an impact: a self-serving car salesman pitching why he should get more Federal gravy train for his selling efforts.


    "I am getting hammered in the press with all the anti-EV stuff." And talking with the president wil make a difference?


    At least he will get a nice portrait, which will look really nice in his office. And his grandchildren will get to hear (more than once) about Grandpa's telling it to the Man.
    1 Jun 2013, 05:33 PM Reply Like
  • yeah, the whole thing makes me shake my head, but hey, it's his quarter. blaze of glory...


    It is amazing though just how powerful and seductive (and now entrenched) the whole electric-car / windsolar-utopia dream-idea seems to be for the masses... this well, this reservoir of popular belief, a thus-far seemingly inexhaustible mountain of fuel the E-hype machine can continue to draw from (witness tesla) for probably longer than we can stay sane. I think for the majority of twenty/thirtysomethings it's just bedrock gospel: It's "well, duh, of course electric cars and solar cells--big oil eevillsux, everybody knows that, what're you an idiot?"


    I was in the grocery store earlier this week and actually overheard two thirtysomething one-percenters (prolly SiConVal) discussing newly acquired model-S: dudebro 2 is telling dudebro 1 (owner), how if he didn't already know, he can download all these performance upgrades to his car and isn't that just too rad. The E-love was just palpable. If BEV fizzles again as the great disruptive dream, it's gonna be a long hard road of disillusionment for many...
    1 Jun 2013, 06:10 PM Reply Like
  • While I don't generally pick nits with friends, I think the first word of your last sentence should have been "When."


    What do you want to bet that dudebro 1 used the cool Tesla financing deal that eliminates his financial downside and shred's Tesla's revenue and net income?


    My example of a 20% take rate on Tesla financing was enough to turn a profit into a loss even with a 25% gross margin. Many of the estimates I've seen have financing take rates in the States of 60%.


    Houston we have a problem.
    1 Jun 2013, 06:20 PM Reply Like
  • Get ready 48. They are working their way down in price so you'll hear dudebro talk all the time. You may even join in. Be there or be square.


    Tesla to introduce new $30,000 compact sedan as EV company expands its charging network

    1 Jun 2013, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • It was a close call on the word choice, but (being already on thin ice, on several other accounts) I figured I didn't want to risk angering the gods (any further) by evincing certainty. Nothing amazes me anymore. Even bricks look like they can fly if you attach enough balloons. I figure P.T. Elon can always raise another 500million, or two, or three, as long as he can somehow continue to say look, "we're selling more cars" ... even if what's under the covers is a total writhing fest of worms... Of course, it *will* all end badly, someday, because Halliburton, but in the meantime, man what an opera we're in.
    1 Jun 2013, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • I'm saddened by the thought of other good ideas he has being drug down also when Telsa falls.
    It takes generations for things to recover from the bad experience of "too soon".


    I wonder how small the diesel electric package can be made and still work? ePower cars?
    2 Jun 2013, 08:32 AM Reply Like
  • "a thus-far seemingly inexhaustible mountain of fuel the E-hype machine can continue to draw from (witness tesla) for probably longer than we can stay sane."


    That almost sounds like investment potential, don't you think?
    4 Jun 2013, 09:38 AM Reply Like
  • >jrp3 ... There is a lot of money to be made in following the "INSANITY" of market participants. I believe there are some old sayings that go along with this investment potential.
    4 Jun 2013, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • Manic markets are like manic personalities. Everything is great as long as the manic side is in control. Then one morning the depressive side emerges and all hell breaks loose.
    4 Jun 2013, 10:50 AM Reply Like
  • I was thinking about some of the challenges associated with being a supplier for automobile OEMs, and what this might mean for Axion. And then I got to wondering whether a lot of these challenges would (or could) be transferred to the battery companies that will be the actual suppliers, with Axion being more on the periphery as the electrode supplier? --- Thanks for any insights from our more knowledgeable Axionistas.
    1 Jun 2013, 05:36 PM Reply Like
  • The strategy was based on the idea that leveraging existing supply chains, manufacturing facilities, distribution systems and customer service networks was far more sensible than trying to duplicate it all from the ground up.


    Component suppliers like PPO are far more profitable than the manufacturers they sell to and their business is far easier because they don't care if JCI loses a customer to Exide as long as PPO sells its separators to both.


    The big drawback of trying to leverage the entire industry is you have to build OEM demand pull or the big battery manufacturers will simply say "go away kid you bother me." Once the customers start saying "We need this technology" the game is altogether different and Axion will have real bargaining power instead of approaching the big boys hat in hand.
    1 Jun 2013, 05:47 PM Reply Like
  • WIO, The deliverables based on being a tier 2 supplier vs being a tier 1 suppliers are not that different. The tier 2 supplier might not have to do some top level validation testing, which you can only do as a complete battery, but the balance of the work remains pretty consistent in proving that the sub components are capably functional and can be made at a rate to support contractual volume requirements when they will be required.


    The tier 1 supplier will do most of the heavy lifting on customer interface and packaging deliveables for key meetings. This however might differ as we have seen with Axion where a tier 2 supplier has special circumstances and this is certainly true of Axion. By this I mean there is not currently tier one supplier and quite frankly the meat of the program is in Axion's technology. OEM's will go where the risk lies in a program and manage it accordingly. I would expect this situation to eventually mature with the battery suppliers taking the tier 1 lead role.


    The whole process of being an automotive supplier is very complex to the outsider but for those that have been through it it's not really that complex at all. It will always be tedious. Often the tier 1 suppliers will take the lead toll in nurturing their supply base in meeting the demands of the deliveables from a content and timing standpoint to keep the program on course. Most definitely Vani is playing a supportive role in Axion at this time based on his background.


    Here's a very very broad brush site in the meaning of the tier structure.

    2 Jun 2013, 10:06 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks much Iindelco,you just gave me a great education in just three succinct paragraphs. Between yours and JP's descriptions, I feel I now have a better understanding of how this all works. I also now have a greater appreciation for Axion's strategy.
    2 Jun 2013, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • "" Once the customers start saying "We need this technology" the game is altogether different and Axion will have real bargaining power instead of approaching the big boys hat in hand"




    Isn't it what happened since last quarter when the european OEM went to his battery supplier telling them they want to start using Axion's PbC?


    3 Jun 2013, 04:17 AM Reply Like
  • I believe it is finally happening in real time.
    3 Jun 2013, 06:06 AM Reply Like
  • PG&E, Energy Commission Unveil Battery Energy Storage In San Jose


    May 23, 2013 /PRNewswire/



    "The project was made possible thanks to a $3.3 million grant from the [California] Energy Commission to PG&E that will help fund the installation and evaluation of the system.




    S&C Electric Company is the engineering, procurement and construction contractor for the project and supplied the storage management system and power conversion equipment that control the battery's AC input/output and its interface with the electric grid. NGK Insulators is the manufacturer of the sodium sulfur (NaS) battery system which includes the battery modules and control system for managing DC input/output and other parameters for maximizing module longevity."


    See also:


    "provided our PureWave® Storage Management System. The system is currently the largest battery installed in the state of California, and it will initially serve as a back-up power supply to enhance electric service reliability. Ultimately, the technology will also participate in the CAISO market and “smooth” the impact of renewable energy resources."
    2 Jun 2013, 09:10 AM Reply Like
  • 05/31/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from instablog (up already).
    # Trds: 55, MinTrSz: 150, MaxTrSz: 23700, Vol 190950, AvTrSz: 3472
    Min. Pr: 0.2611, Max Pr: 0.2775, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2709
    # Buys, Shares: 26 113450, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2717
    # Sells, Shares: 28 72500, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2695
    # Unkn, Shares: 1 5000, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.2715
    Buy:Sell 1.56:1 (59.4% “buys”), DlyShts 98765 (51.72%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 150.02%


    Today was unusually "content rich" (No, not a synonym for "long winded"! ;-)) So I decided to spare those with no interest the burden of scrolling.


    If you want the gory details, go visit and use your search for "05/31" or just page down below the charts.


    2 Jun 2013, 10:56 AM Reply Like
  • Under construction is a new "AXPW: Intra-Day Trade & Buy:Sell Inflection Point Charting Beginning 6/1/2013" instablog, the stub of which is here.



    I'll post a comment when it's ready, likely in a few hours, if I'm lucky.


    2 Jun 2013, 11:18 AM Reply Like
  • The header of the new instablog, linked in the prior comment, has been updated.


    The chart is from Friday and there's no daily commentary yet - should load quickly! :-)


    2 Jun 2013, 03:42 PM Reply Like
  • How customizable is the PbC battery. For example is it possible to increase charge acceptance at the cost of shorter lifetime. As different applications have different requirements some ability to customize might be useful and a way to continue to develop IP.


    More generally, I am interested to know if Axion will be able to spend the next several years continually improving the product or does this technology represent a one time step change.


    2 Jun 2013, 03:51 PM Reply Like
  • jcrjg,


    I personally think most of Axion's work so far has been in an effort to study the amazing characteristics of their PbC technology and find potential markets for it so they can monetize the technology FIRST. In the years ahead, I would not be surprised at all if their R&D work becomes more focused on tweaking the technology so they can offer customized value to their clients in their niche markets.
    3 Jun 2013, 06:38 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna, HTL,


    Thanks. I read John's article when it came out. I was thinking about additional DOE programs and whether that would be realistic. I think moving down a traditional cost curve would be the least interesting to DOE. Generating data to help demonstrate feasibility to new applications next. Tuning the technology to improve performance for specific applications would be most interesting, provided all of the data is not currently known and there is some R&D component.
    3 Jun 2013, 07:54 AM Reply Like
  • jcrg: I've asked Axion folks your question several times and have always been told that we're still in the early stages of exploring the potential of the technology.


    I think the carbon sheeting improvement is a great example of the gains that are possible (wasn't that a 25% improvement in power at all states of charge while of course massively reducing costs).
    3 Jun 2013, 08:26 AM Reply Like
  • The PbC is tunable, but it's not infinitely tunable. Tuning generally involves trade-offs where you sacrifice a little power for a little more energy or sacrifice a little energy for a little more power.


    Of all the operating metrics that matter to potential PbC users DCA may be one of the least important because nobody is building battery applications that push the outer limits of the PbC's charge acceptance.


    ePower is probably a good example of the process. They were pleased with the performance of the initial batteries but wanted to get a bit more instantaneous power for acceleration boost and hill climbing. After comparing the performance they were getting with the performance they wanted, Axion tweaked the battery design to better accommodate ePower's specific needs. The new batteries have delivered everything ePower was looking for and more. I talk to ePower regularly and they couldn't be happier.


    The two biggest "efficiency curve" events in Axion's history were:


    1. The commissioning of the second generation electrode line; and
    2. The commissioning of the automated sheeting process.


    Some years ago Bob Lutz explained that a starter battery from Exide had about 6 minutes of direct labor content.


    When Axion commissioned the second generation electrode line, it eliminated hand work and reduced the labor needed to laminate electrode assemblies to about 7 minutes per battery. (two men at 150 sets of electrodes in an eight hour shift).


    When Axion commissioned the automated sheeting process this year, it slashed labor costs to a point where two men can produce 400% of the sheeting that a ten-man crew could produce with the original process. While it's tough to get a firm estimate of the old sheeting labor, if a 10-man crew could make the sheeting for 150 batteries per day, the original labor content per battery works out to about a half-hour. With the automated sheeting process the labor content per battery is now under 3 minutes.


    All other things being equal, I think that driving the incremental labor in a PbC down to ~10 minutes is a very major accomplishment. There will no doubt be further efficiency gains in the future, but they'll almost certainly pale in comparison to the gains we've seen over the last two years.
    3 Jun 2013, 08:44 AM Reply Like
  • APM: 25% in available (useable) *energy* by expansion of the SOC range due to reduced internal resistance over a broader range, IIRC. I do suspect that the wider "sweet spot" might affect power some as well but I'm totally unsure of that. What was stated was the the energy.


    3 Jun 2013, 08:56 AM Reply Like
  • ap, John,


    Thanks, the carbon sheeting and the 25% improvement along with the discussion on DOE were what got me thinking about this question. If Axion is correct about being "in the early stages of exploring the potential of the technology" that would be great news and could be a path to a decades long competitive advantage. This is not our most important issue now but will be important for the future.
    5 Jun 2013, 07:59 AM Reply Like
  • The PbC has some really extraordinary performance characteristics including extreme cycle life and charge acceptance, but that fact alone makes the selling process more difficult because design engineers have always avoided systems that put those kinds of demands on their batteries. ePower is a great example. They wanted to use an underpowered series electric drive augmented by batteries for heavy trucks. The system worked in theory, but it had a nasty habit of turning flooded and AGM batteries to slag because they couldn't hold up to the extreme discharge and recharge regime. It was the same problem at Norfolk Southern where the mechanical systems worked just fine but the batteries couldn't stand the strain. The great opportunity is that many of the things design engineers want to do with batteries are, for the first time, possible with the PbC. The trick will be getting OEMs confident enough to launch the products they want to build.
    5 Jun 2013, 08:17 AM Reply Like
  • HTL - The improvement in internal resistance was stated to have had a minor (but positive) impact on "available (useable) *energy* ". Reducing the internal resistance (reportedly by 25%) reduces the energy lost roundtrip, eg, perhaps going from 70% roundtrip efficiency to 78% (non-authoritative guesstimates). Less resistance means less heat generated, so less heat dissipation issues. Less resistance would also mean possibly faster charging.


    As a side note, there has been some dreams of 400 amp charging rates. This is not really practical. For a 100 foot circuit, a copper conductor is over an inch in diameter, plus insulation. The ePower truck may use about 100 feet: from the motor to the controller, then to each battery (54 in series), then back to the motor.


    The PbC has a C4 capacity (15 minutes) of 330 wh. So 400 amps @ 12 volts is 4800 w, meaning a 4 minute "charge" time. However, only the middle 50% of the SOC has great charge acceptance, so that is 2 minutes. The energy capacity of the battery at C30 (2 minutes) is going to be much less the C4 capacity of 330 wh. At best, I would guess the battery could accept only 30 seconds to minute at this charge rate, and perhaps not capable at all. Such very high current flows also typically significantly degrade battery life. Note that even if the battery can accept 400 amps for a short time, the battery is still going to be much less than 50% charged.


    The highest published charging rate for PbC I have seen is 100 amps, and informally we have heard about 200 amps. I think 400 amps is both unlikely to be practical (wire size, cost, weight), and unnecessary from any application point of view. For example, a professional truck driver (almost) never slams the brakes, so the amount of energy lost during rare emergency braking is not significant overall.
    5 Jun 2013, 09:16 AM Reply Like
  • Rick, thanks for taking the time to explain that here.
    5 Jun 2013, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks Rick. My primary thought was that change in internal resistance widened the usable range (i.e. the "sweet spot" was wider) and that accounted for the increased energy and probably widened the charge acceptance parameters a bit.


    All the other stuff wasn't even thought of by me.


    5 Jun 2013, 10:11 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks for the input, Rick.


    On charging rates, IINM the SBIR phase I grant proposal was predicated on a 150 amp charge rate. JP has informally reported ePower registering "regenerative braking charges of 840 volts and 150 amps."


    Must be some interesting trade-offs between regenerative charging voltages/amps and system component costs.
    5 Jun 2013, 10:26 AM Reply Like
  • The heaviest charge acceptance demand that I know of was a 200 amp charging current target that Gerhard Thelen referenced in his presentation "Energy Savings, a Key to Successful Railroading."


    While bigger numbers may be fun for the gee-whiz factor, the reality is that engineers don't design systems that generate heavier loads because they've never had batteries that could stand the strain.
    5 Jun 2013, 10:53 AM Reply Like
  • Considering that the best AGM batteries can accept a maximum of about 40 amps, I'd say that the PbC would be very impressive even if it could *only* handle 150.


    Is it a coincidence that the new Chevy malibu with s/s has a 2 battery system very similar to the one BMW currently uses?* I doubt that they both independently came up with this...Chevy is copying what BMW has done, and probably others in Europe have as well. When BMW inevitably (IMO) adopts a 2 battery system with PbC, I think that other companies will follow soon after, and we won't have to go through this obstacle course again. I stand with the other investors on the board who feel that initial profits are less important than just getting the product out there in something being sold to the masses. A hole in the dam will lead to the entire spillway collapsing.


    All my opinion only with a healthy dollop of blind hope.


    *I don't think we know what the specific batteries in the malibu are yet. I am assuming.
    5 Jun 2013, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • jcrjg:


    In addition, there's been a lot of discussion in the concentrators about "tunability" of energy vs. power by variation of thickness of lead and carbon, effectively changing the amount (mass) of each material, to give more "power" or more "energy". This would change some of the DCA and delivery parameters.


    2 Jun 2013, 05:08 PM Reply Like


    this won't be everyone's cup of tea and apologize for the political content, but an interesting take on the PTC (positive train control) mandate and how it might be sucking up dollars we'd love to see NSC spend on more efficient locomotives...


    Well heck, let's make it a threefer:

  is the model S the model T?

    solar panel QC travails... really like the point the last paragraph makes though:


    "It isn’t because solar might not have a legitimate, affordable, and helpful place in our energy scheme — but as long as we keep throwing artificial top-down faux-market signals into the mix, we’ll never really be able to know. All of this subsidizing and cashing out and cronyism is nothing short of an egregious disservice to the renewable energy industries that eco-radicals claim to love so much, because in the long run it discourages price efficiency and competitiveness. If green progressives want these fledgling technologies to succeed, they need to push them out of the nest and see if they can fly on their own."


    well, heck, one more....and not from a "usual suspects" source...looks meaty though:



    we live in interesting times...lots of features to the investing landscape
    2 Jun 2013, 08:19 PM Reply Like
  • Hey,


    Took a cab ride home here in london yesterday through this new company that runs a fleet of Toyota Prius Hybrid. Stop start equipped and cheap rides with a 2 mile radius. Started chatting to the driver and we talked a bit about the SS system. The cars are pretty new, so stop start works perfectly fine. However, I told him that it runs down the battery pretty fast and the SS functionality may die after a few months, to which he replied: "Have had a Hybrid Prius for almost two years and didn't have to change the battery once". How is that possible? What type of battery is the Prius equipped with? If it's Lead acid, I would have expected sulfation to take its toll on the battery system.


    Thanks for any clarification


    3 Jun 2013, 05:39 AM Reply Like
  • The Prius is a full hybrid and while it uses a lead-acid starter battery for cold starts, it relies principally on its nickel metal hydride battery for operating functions like stop-start, electric-only launch, acceleration boost and brake energy recovery. Since it's designed differently and doesn't put hotel and other stop-start loads on its lead-acid battery, it doesn't have problems with its lead-acid battery.


    The whole idea of a micro-hybrid is to add as much stop-start functionality as possible without using the beefy batteries, electric drive motors and complex control electronics you find in a full hybrid.
    3 Jun 2013, 06:17 AM Reply Like
  • Thank you JP. Now as I recall, he indeed specified that he had two battery systems. One in the front hood, and one beefy in the back!
    3 Jun 2013, 06:26 AM Reply Like
  • Full hybridization is a wonderful option that saves up to 40% on fuel consumption, but it's costly and adds $3,500 to $5,000 to the price of a car. The automakers are making micro-hybrid systems standard equipment for a $250 to $1,000 price differential.
    3 Jun 2013, 06:32 AM Reply Like
  • JP,


    For me it was the first time I ever had a proper ride in a Hybrid vehicle. The electronics and signal board looks amazing and the ride very comfortable. The driver was telling me that the fuel cost came out of his own pocket instead of the cab company, but that he was not concerned at all. His fuel efficiency was somewhere around 50mpg. Does this sound like a plausible efficiency for a Prius Hybrid?
    3 Jun 2013, 06:42 AM Reply Like
  • Toyota claims 50 mpg performance for the Prius although most owners don't do quite that well. When you start talking about a cab driver who pays for his own fuel and pays close attention to the way his driving habits impact fuel economy, it wouldn't surprise me at all.


    The Prius is a pretty extreme example of what can be done with HEV technology, but even the larger hybrids from Toyota are very efficient.
    3 Jun 2013, 07:10 AM Reply Like
  • While on the subject of cab drivers, spoke to a cabbie here in Dubai and he told me that his company had bought 10ish Chevy Volts, but that they hadn't work out and the company had gotten rid of them. He didn't know any further information.
    3 Jun 2013, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • I get 45-55 mpg in my 2007 Prius, so totally in the ball park.
    3 Jun 2013, 01:58 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    I have relatives with 3 Prius.
    The oldest 2004 one about 2 years old and a V about one years old.
    The oldest gets about 50 mpg the next about 52 mpg the V (Bigger heavier) about 46 mpg.


    The first two occasionally swap drivers and the MPG does not seem to change much.
    None of the three are lead-foots but not granny types either.


    (No info on the smallest and newest Prius C)
    3 Jun 2013, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • Metro
    The Volt has 38 or so miles electric then all gas until plugged in again. With a Taxi it would likely be driving on gas nearly all the time.


    <Q: How many miles per gallon will the Chevy Volt get?
    A: A bit of a trick question. For the first 35 miles it will get infinite mpg, because no gas will be burned. When the generator starts, the car will get 37 mpg (35 mpg city/40 mpg highway) thereafter. One can calculate the average mpg per for any length drive starting with a full battery:>
    (EPA rating probably 32 mpg or so real world)


    Which makes it an expensive heavy complicated car with not particularly good gas millage for a taxi. Also I believe it needs premium gas.


    Residential use with a 30 or less mile commute, it is a far better fit car. People are reporting MPG in the several hundred miles range.
    Owners seem to like it as well.


    The only question I have is: Were there reliability problems?
    I know you don't have that info, but I don't want to paint a rosy picture when there may have been a reason other than the obvious one.
    3 Jun 2013, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • >froggey77 ... There isn't a late model auto in the USA that requires premium gas. They are all tested with a grade a step above premium with no ethanol and owners manuals have to mention the use of premium because they would otherwise run afoul of EPA testing.


    Volt reliability (?) is pretty good if measured by recalls & service bulletins.



    There are No Chevrolet Volt Recalls on file for all Years
    3 Jun 2013, 02:52 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77,
    My take on it would be about the same. From what I have observed and gained from talking to the taxi drivers, the taxi drivers work in 12 hour shifts sharing a car with a partner. That would mean they would never have time to plug in the Volt as the car is virtually working 24/7. Wouldn't at all make any use of the strengths of the car.
    3 Jun 2013, 03:08 PM Reply Like
  • Drich


    While I haven't seen anything for or against this year; for the 2011 version GM said premium.


    Why the Volt Requires Premium Gasoline



    <Earlier this week GM released the 2011 Chevrolet Volt ordering guide for dealers to use. Included in the description about the gasoline generator were the words “requires premium fuel.” This led to specualtion and surprise from fans and skeptics as to why in the world the car would require premium gas.
    According to Volt vehicle line director Tony Posawatz, there are two main reasons.
    “The Volt is all about efficiency,” he said. “Premium fuel offers the opportunity to have a little bit more spark.”
    “Ninety one octane fuel also offers the opportunity to be a little more efficient, he added. “So technically its a five to ten percent fuel economy improvement the few times that most people will run the range extender.”
    Posawatz also claimed the increase is cost will be offset by the efficiency gains.
    “Based on our calculations the fuel economy and efficiency gains you get will effectively compensate for the extra cost of premium fuel,” he said
    Additionally, premium fuel is apparently slower to go stale.
    If people are not using the extended range capability a lot, the premium fuel does last a little longer,” he said
    “There will be a few that will have their gas go bad,” he added. “We have ways to address that as well.”>


    About the possible problems.
    I haven't heard of problems but a taxi might run into problems long before normal. Basically I left an out as i haven't any long term reliability figures.
    3 Jun 2013, 03:21 PM Reply Like
  • you would think a diesel would have been a more natural fit for the Volt--diesel fuel doesn't go bad so quickly like ETOH polluted gasoline, engine a bit more efficient etc...
    3 Jun 2013, 03:34 PM Reply Like
  • >froggey77 ... Duh! Of course GM is going to "require" premium because that is how they got to the mileage efficiency numbers they quote. There is no doubt it will boost performance a couple of percentage points (let's be generous and call it 1, maybe 2, miles per gallon). It is also a requirement for any car that is in the sport or performance category for those same few percentage point.


    Here is a list of autos that "require" premium



    and here is a list of autos that "recommend" premium



    all for the same reason according to OEM specifications. I'll let you make the call but as a consumer if you can live with 5 less H.P or a mile per gallon less it doesn't meet the standard of "required" to me or the dealer I know that drives a Volt daily.
    3 Jun 2013, 03:38 PM Reply Like
  • Volt apparently does require premium gasoline:
    3 Jun 2013, 11:16 PM Reply Like
  • So does a Honda Civic. Just how often does this happen?


    Volt also has a software routine that will burn gas just to keep the tank from going "stale".
    3 Jun 2013, 11:52 PM Reply Like
  • Unfortunately the real reason is not embedded it the article.
    4 Jun 2013, 12:16 AM Reply Like
  • What keeps the ePower system from being used in cars and not just trucks?
    3 Jun 2013, 07:55 AM Reply Like
  • The e-power hybrid concept is used in automobiles.
    Ford, Hyundai, and others are using lithium batteries to provide a battery boost during acceleration thus reducing fuel usage. It does increase fuel mileage if one does a lot of city driving. The problem with using a PbC battery is the extra weight. This is why Axion was working with GM ( and now perhaps a different Auto Manufacturer) for a mild hybrid system.
    Remember that an ePower system cost around $60,000 with off the shelf parts. Very affordable for a truck. I can't imagine adding a significant price to an automobile and having it be a success. After all the Prius works great and only cost $25,000.
    3 Jun 2013, 09:21 AM Reply Like
  • ePower's drivetrain is very different from the parallel hybrid configuration one normally sees in HEVs.


    Where a parallel hybrid has a mechanical connection between the engine and the drive wheels and the electric motor adds boost when required, ePower's series hybrid does not have a mechanical connection between the engine and the drive wheels.


    All of the engine power is used to run a generator and the combination of power from the generator and power from the battery pack is used to run an electric motor that's mechanically connected to the drive wheels.


    There were many who hoped that the Volt would be a true series hybrid, but GM spoiled the fun by putting a mechanical linkage between the engine and the drive wheels.
    3 Jun 2013, 09:42 AM Reply Like
  • Yes, sadly the Volt was a missed opportunity.
    3 Jun 2013, 10:29 AM Reply Like
  • As far as I know, the Fisker Karma was the only true serial (edit: series?) hybrid automobile which was commercially produced.
    3 Jun 2013, 10:31 AM Reply Like
  • In the mean time, look who gets grants for SS systems
    3 Jun 2013, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • "The 16-month program will develop an advanced lithium-ion 12-volt start-stop battery system to meet or exceed the performance, life and cost targets set by USABC."


    I wish we could see these performance, life, and cost targets for ourselves.


    What do you want to bet the PbC already exceeds them?
    3 Jun 2013, 11:10 AM Reply Like
  • You can see who owns this...Chrysler, Ford, GM etc. and you wonder why AXPW can't get into the majors ?
    3 Jun 2013, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • Nicu: Of course! It had the DOE "magic words" Li-ion" POOF! The world is being reshaped by our prescience as we speak!


    3 Jun 2013, 11:34 AM Reply Like
  • >Milhouse ... You can see the performance specs right here, see page 10 of 10



    The PbC fails on weight and that is about it .... oh ... and it's not Lithium
    3 Jun 2013, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • Perhaps we should change the name from "PbC" to "Lion", like the "lionbattery". This word has all the right letters in the right order to provoke a visceral response in those who control the purse strings in both government and private industry. <sarcasm font off>
    3 Jun 2013, 11:56 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks Nicu! I've been watching for that weekly since last year. Sure took them long enough to get the award out. I was beginning to think NSC was part of the decision making process.
    3 Jun 2013, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • Drich,
    Thanks, that was what I was looking for, but couldn't find.


    Their price target is $180 for the battery itself. If they are able to meet that (without losing money), we could have a problem. Of course, those lithium battery makers don't seem to have a problem selling product for less than they make it for. With government backing, they may do just that.
    3 Jun 2013, 12:24 PM Reply Like
  • from what I read a while back, they actually developed a pretty sophisticated and elegant solution that does a good job of covering the different driving regimes, optimizing the contribution of each component (motor, battery, engine, generator) but they gave up a whole lot in the area of public perception by doing so... they have to have learned quite a bit on many fronts by the whole experience though I would think...lessons learned, skills acquired, and knowledge gained that hopefully can show up in later designs and cars that are better for it.
    3 Jun 2013, 03:42 PM Reply Like
  • $10 B grid storage mkt by 2020, winners below:

    3 Jun 2013, 09:41 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting note on



    It doesn't appear that GE has committed to using their Durathon metal salt battery for energy storage. At a guess, it is too expensive and has a relatively high standby power consumption to keep everything at 300C deg (don't quote that 300Cdeg number). My guess is that the PbC is very competitive with the Durathon on everything but weight. Likely not far off on the weight, given that nickel or iron is the metal used. But who cares about weight for stationary use?
    3 Jun 2013, 01:17 PM Reply Like
  • sili, I think the Durathon is considered an energy battery, in contrast to the PbC as a power battery.


    Also, I do not think managing a large scale battery back to stay hot is much a problem. Insulation.
    3 Jun 2013, 11:21 PM Reply Like