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  • Me UNO? :))
    20 Sep 2013, 07:41 AM Reply Like
  • could it be?


    Edit: nope
    20 Sep 2013, 07:41 AM Reply Like
  • Was "duece", now advantage HTL"! :-))


    20 Sep 2013, 07:49 AM Reply Like
  • OK, token comment executed...


    Although I see a "Track new comments on this article" box up above...
    20 Sep 2013, 07:51 AM Reply Like
  • With no news this concentrator will once again be brought to you by the redundant department of redundancy. Ahh pre-production small caps. Gotta love em if you don't fall asleep first.
    20 Sep 2013, 07:58 AM Reply Like
  • A time when No News <> Good News.
    There are good chances for some news in the near future. Hope those chances will not be missed.
    20 Sep 2013, 08:16 AM Reply Like
  • I am optimistic for some sort of announcement next week to coincide with the shareholders meeting. They have to talk about something during the meeting other than how high their bounce is.
    20 Sep 2013, 08:24 AM Reply Like
  • Fancy Pants,


    They can't make disclosure of material information to those who attend the shareholders meeting without risking BIG with the SEC. My guess is they will get some news out to the broad public before then, otherwise they would have to wait a while after the meeting before releasing it
    20 Sep 2013, 08:34 AM Reply Like
  • It would be funny if all the shareholders who attend could walk around with exaggerated bounces in their steps. Maybe even buy some of those springy shoes from the toy catalog. TG would probably miss the point, though.
    20 Sep 2013, 09:27 AM Reply Like
  • NGS, Might make for a good third beer story with the right crowd but it would yield the same results as sleeping in an urban park to protest Wall Street.
    20 Sep 2013, 09:53 AM Reply Like
  • I can see the t-shirts now:


    "Want two seats?
    Deliver the treats!"


    "The Phantom 300"


    "I've Been PIPEd"
    20 Sep 2013, 10:19 AM Reply Like
  • NGS, lol... :-))
    20 Sep 2013, 01:14 PM Reply Like
  • NGS
    What exaggerated bounce?
    People are always saying that to me! :-P
    20 Sep 2013, 05:49 PM Reply Like
  • If JP's comment "Axion management throws nickels around like manhole covers" still holds then we must be very encouraged by the 2 import notices we saw in the last 3 months. Activated carbon 20/Aug/2013 and Pb plastic terminals 31/July/2013.
    20 Sep 2013, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • Bang, to your point I also fear another cash infusion will be necessary.


    Under no circumstances do I want more plumbers however. I'd rather have a nice straightforward 50% dilution. I absolutely despise this forever hostage to manipulation.


    Back to the garden beds.


    Let's just hope that along the way we get some news. I really don't want to wait another two years. :>)
    20 Sep 2013, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • North America’s largest bus manufacturers, New Flyer Industries, is working on "rapid-charging technology" (see the top of page 2)


    Past evidence has been that its lithium titanate chemistry from Mitsubishi.
    20 Sep 2013, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • It would be nice if they could get to the failure point (/ price pain) faster so that they would consider using PbC sooner.
    20 Sep 2013, 02:06 PM Reply Like
  • That particular point of failure occurs with great rapidity WHEN government subsidies run out. Not before. Given the nature of recent elections, where the same geniuses that engineered A123 (etc) and poured billions of public dollars down various private rat holes got re-elected, the mandates have followed the usual formula, ie, more of what happened before, just with the expectation that the new cronies will succeed at producing innovation via fiat.
    20 Sep 2013, 08:42 PM Reply Like
  • And I actually thought that a week would pass without a new battery chemistry being announced.


    Solid-state battery developed at CU-Boulder could double the range of electric cars

    20 Sep 2013, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bulls*&t.
    -W.C. Fields


    Now applies to how to get govmint money without expending too many resources. Just think about it. Axion spent ten years looking to commercialize something and it's still going to take time to launch it. These guys fart in a lab and they are changing the world. And then you have the other fifty labs over the last week and a half that also stink.
    20 Sep 2013, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • My thoughts exactly ! It seems to me that we are getting more and more companies that exist to get government grants .
    20 Sep 2013, 03:19 PM Reply Like
  • A few years back when my youngest and I were looking at engineering schools I advised against research universities. The college he selected had a high level of professors in his chosen major that were self made in industry and were now teaching for reasons other than money since many were quite affluent. If he moves on to a different path for his next degree that's OK because he's at least seen the real world. The university he's at now has a co-op work/study program so that helps.


    I'm not totally against the structure that's been set up for research but it's way out of hand.
    20 Sep 2013, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • My gripe about university (I am an EE also) is that you can come out of it and still be functionally useless in that field. I would take one class that taught me what the current market state was in the field, and how to build a product. Done, I'll be off to learn on my own from there. Otherwise you are force feeding students who have no idea why they are there. Of course, I went to a research university, and the classes were designed to produce researchers. The vast majority of students however just want to make some coin.
    20 Sep 2013, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma, Exactly. You have to be introduced to the areas that might interest you in some fashion so you can get an idea of what your contribution is and also have a clue what others around you are doing. In effect how things mesh and how your area impacts things in front of and post your job function. How do you design something if you don't know the market it's targeted at and the processes that create it?
    20 Sep 2013, 03:59 PM Reply Like
  • From Eisenhower farewell address to the nation in January 1961,


    " The record of many decades stands as proof that our people and their Government have, in the main, understood these truths and have responded to them well in the face of threat and stress.


    But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise.


    Of these, I mention two only. "


    Practically everyone is aware of the that concern over unwarranted influence of "the military-industrial complex" as clearly enunciated in


    "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. "


    Far fewer people are cognizant of the second and somewhat related risk which was clearly spelled out.


    "Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.


    In this revolution, research has become central, it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.


    Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.


    The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded. "


    "Gravely to be regarded" was prescient and anticipatory of the unwarranted influence wielded by activist 'scientists' in the environmental community and virtually all of the 'catastrophic global warming' community. Unwarranted influence to the point of 'gatekeeping' research accepted for publication in peer reviewed journals.
    20 Sep 2013, 06:24 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv. Glad we nipped those in the bud. :(


    Thanks much for the history lesson.
    21 Sep 2013, 01:30 AM Reply Like
  • ..."Gravely to be regarded" was prescient and anticipatory of the unwarranted influence wielded by activist 'scientists' in the environmental community and virtually all of the 'catastrophic global warming' community. Unwarranted influence to the point of 'gatekeeping' research accepted for publication in peer reviewed journals. <end quote>


    It's sad that so many people have come to believe that scientific research on climate change is little more than a long con. We should be more frightened of the undue influence afforded to corporations and wealthy actors who use their money to control media and policy think tanks and use these venues to cloud debate.
    21 Sep 2013, 07:53 AM Reply Like
  • We live in a world with 7 billion inhabitants.


    Every barrel of oil and every ton of coal that's conserved in rich economies will merely increase supplies in poorer economies where a guy who has to choose between freezing in the dark or emitting a bit more carbon will chose his comfort every time.


    If the theory of AGW is correct, we are already screwed unless something catastrophic comes along to slash the world's population by 75% to 90%.


    In the final analysis all of the proposed "solutions" present a zero sum game that we simply can't win.
    21 Sep 2013, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • jpau ... you might consider reading


    Reality is that climate models constructed by all those "scientists" warning the world of imminent catastrophic climate change perform poorly. The science underlying earth's climate is far from 'settled', including understanding of the carbon cycle.
    21 Sep 2013, 09:51 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv, I can totally go along with the premise that there are many unknowns, and that one of the most important tasks should be to honestly quantify what we don't know and cannot settle.
    21 Sep 2013, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • I find it interesting that AXPW pierced .1250 this morning and we have such anemic volume. Usually when a long established "floor" is pierced, we see heavy volume.


    Thus, it appears there are not many willing sellers remaining to shake out and most everyone (who is left) is holding tightly to their shares.


    Of course, the flip-side is that there are not many buyers (at the moment) either. That is to be expected when we have the annual shareholders meeting next week.
    20 Sep 2013, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • O.R: Wait for the typical late-day weakness! We have the usual suspects on the ask - ARCA, ATDF, BTIG and ETRF offering 150K for some days now at $0.1325.


    It's just a matter of time. The pipers are doing their thing. Oh! Don'r forget that Fridays often have lower volume anyway.


    20 Sep 2013, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • RA> RE: " I just have yet to see any assurances (or data) from Axion suggesting they expect these batteries to have a useful life of "X" years. Nothing. If it's there I just haven't seen it or heard it from the horse's mouth."


    The following from a published article [] is about the closest I can think of that may perhaps (partially) address some of your concerns. The last short paragraph appears to be TG speaking, but it's not clear what he means by “have value at the end of life”.


    ePower Chief Technology Officer Jay Bowman commented, "Axion Power PbC batteries are ideally suited to our hybridization because of their ability not only to discharge quickly, but also to recharge quickly utilizing regenerative braking and the truck's own power generation system. Our testing has been going very well, so we felt it important to get this order booked now. The PbC battery's ability to endure thousands of cycles without the loss of charge acceptance, and its ability to continually self equalize the state of charge in string applications, are tremendous advantages that clearly distinguish these batteries from their competition. These advantages, and others that the PbC battery brings to the equation, allow our ePower conversion System to achieve a very attractive ROI. We are very close to concluding our long term supply agreement with Axion and we look forward to successfully marketing our product with them in the years to come."


    He also pointed out that PbC batteries are fully recycled more than 99% of the time and have value at the end of life, unlike some of the more exotic types of batteries that are being used in electric and hybrid automobiles.
    20 Sep 2013, 02:27 PM Reply Like
  • I find those statement encouraging, total cost of ownership means
    a lot in commercial and industrial environments.
    20 Sep 2013, 03:24 PM Reply Like
  • End of life value means that the value of the materials is greater than the cost of recycling the battery. PbC batteries can be recycled with standard lead acid batteries.
    20 Sep 2013, 04:33 PM Reply Like
  • I took that statement as the batteries could/would be recycled when they're dead. (Lithium-ion being more difficult to recycle.) Not having anything to do with the longevity of the PbC battery.
    20 Sep 2013, 05:27 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks Wayne for the research! :)


    <<The PbC battery's ability to endure thousands of cycles without the loss of charge acceptance>>


    This could refer to nothing more than the lab test I cited where 40,000 cycling events were packed into 66 days and 100,000 into 165 days (5 months). While the fact that DCA remained high (and blew away AGM) during this particular test, and others, is excellent, I think it's a big mistake to assume the results of 165 days necessarily extrapolate out to several years of real world use when time itself is known to cause some deterioration. The white paper even comes right out and says the lab conditions "underestimate the stresses" of normal real world use. And we know that some issue or weakness came to light at some point during this test that necessitated adding a second battery to crank the starter.


    <<PbC batteries are fully recycled more than 99% of the time>>


    How can a product that's never had a single retail sale have a recycling track record?? That statement, if truly made by CTO Bowman and not a journalist misquote, is a credibility loser to me.


    <<[PbC's] have value at the end of life>>


    I've always taken this to mean the few dollars of lead scrap value, like a lead-acid battery. Not really significant but still a bragging point compared to Li-ion which is worth nothing for scrap as far as I know. I doubt having some nominal scrap value will ever tip the scales to get anybody to choose a $350 PbC, but it does sound good to recycling hounds.
    21 Sep 2013, 02:30 AM Reply Like
  • RA


    Re Recyclability of the PbC battery.


    The understanding I have is that the only difference between the PbC and LA is the carbon electrode which is made from coconut fibers. If that is true then the 99 claim is valid.


    Remember that probably thousands of prototype batteries have been built over the years.
    21 Sep 2013, 06:31 AM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator> Axion has a decade of experience with the PbC and the one thing that isn't an issue is deterioration with age.


    There is worse for a lead-acid battery than leaving it at a partial state of charge because that's what leads to the rapid growth of lead-sulfate crystals on the negative electrode. Axion has done a ton of work in DCA analysis for opportunity charging of lead-acid batteries and even brief waiting periods between the end of a discharge cycle and the beginning of a charge cycle have horrendous impacts on sulfation rates. What they were trying to model was a car that stopped at a light with all the hotel loads, started traveling when the light changed and waited until the car started to decelerate for the next light before beginning the charge cycle. Even that one-minute wait between discharge and recharge killed the batteries in a matter of days because the sulfation was so bad. The PbC didn't suffer any ill effects from waiting.


    Before it installed the PbC, ePower could run the tractor for about four hours before it had to be put on a charger for 10 to 12 hours. Over the last several months the charger has been pushed to the side because the batteries don't need the maintenance.


    Replacing the lead-based negative electrode with carbon completely eliminates negative plate sulfation, which has always been the big culprit. While every battery slowly deteriorates over time, the component that deteriorates in the PbC is the positive electrode rather than the negative.


    The choice of PbC vs conventional lead-acid will be made at the manufacturer level, not the consumer level. The PbC will not be a drop in replacement in systems that are designed for lead-acid and lead-acid will not be a drop in replacement in systems that are designed for the PbC.
    21 Sep 2013, 07:27 AM Reply Like
  • RA ... PbC batteries are AGM-VRLA batteries except for replacement of the lead negative electrode with Axion's carbon electrode. Recycling of AGM-VRLA batteries is well established and not in dispute.
    21 Sep 2013, 09:58 AM Reply Like
  • It is fair to say that a PbC is slightly less attractive as a recycling feedstock than a conventional AGM or flooded battery because each PbC uses about 30% less lead and the electrode carbon modestly increases the complexity of the recycling process, but recycling PbC batteries is still a profitable business where recycling lithium-ion will never be a profitable business unless you want to include cash tipping charges to the owner as part of your revenue stream.
    21 Sep 2013, 10:45 AM Reply Like
  • John,


    These things I knew. That the cumulative effect of one-minute periods at low SOC kills AGM quickly while not harming PbC (in the shorter term), does not mean that PbC will hold its DCA performance at or near spec for 3-4 years or more. It's non sequitur.


    <<the one thing that isn't an issue is deterioration with age>>


    I'm unconvinced as I still haven't seen any actual supporting facts or Axion statements to that effect (except for the anecdotal warranty period extensions). All we have really are the (indirect) arguments that BMW and NS would have quit by now if durability were an issue. I don't believe that is correct because when issues arise, doesn't Axion make improvements and then send them brand new improved batteries for testing? In other words, they wouldn't have tested the +same+ batteries for 4 years -- they've tested sequentially improved generations for shorter periods, no? Or perhaps they have tested the originals for 4 years now that failed to cut it, but they continue testing with the improved versions just to see how it goes with them? I just think assuming that continuing relationships with BMW & NS necessarily constitutes a thumbs up for their future adoption of PbC is a mistake.


    I'm not worried that a PbC will be completely unusable (dead) in 3 or 4 years. I'm worried that DCA performance will fall off moderately but enough that the PbC can't perform at a high enough level for its intended purpose -- that lower charge acceptance in year 3 and beyond could translate to poorer fuel savings than expected in a Class 8 truck, for example, which then changes the whole economics and casts a pall on PbC technology: "Yeah it works great but only for the first couple of years. But it will cost ya an arm and a leg."


    That's my fear and unless that fear recedes I'm keeping my AXPW position smaller than I would otherwise.
    21 Sep 2013, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator: My understanding about the service life of the PbC is largely derived from JP and Dr. Buiel so I can't offer you any new information.


    I do agree with you that service life is a huge issue for the PbC. I've run the numbers on the ePower application and can tell you that with the more conservative fuel economy improvement numbers (35%) that a five year service life (vs. 3 year say) makes a significant difference on the overall profitability of the endeavor.


    I became particularly concerned about this issue when TG once said something along the lines that the PbC didn't need to last more than 100,000 start-stop cycles because the automakers didn't want/need it to. Maybe that is how the automakers think, but I think it's flat out wrong when assessing the eventual value of the PbC technology.


    Ed Buiel put this issue to rest for me when he stated that occasional trickle charging of the battery to "top it off" (I think this was for something like 36 hours) would undo most of the decreased effectiveness (i think this is my # but 80% is what I remember) over the past 6 or 12 month period. You can't ask a consumer to do this, but you can certainly do this in most commercial applications.


    In sum, I formed the impression that the PbC will have a five year service life in the ePower application and thus, I'm still holding my Axion shares and continue to slowly add to my holding.


    It would be very nice to see Axion post real numbers in this regard. So, overall I think we share similar concerns.
    22 Sep 2013, 12:58 PM Reply Like
  • RA,
    Your justification of fear to hold a larger position in AXPW is putting on a negative image to PbC unnecessarily. If I were you, I would sell my position and wait for the clouds to clear over your space.


    I do not remember that we tested the spaceprobe in real environment before we sent the first one out back in the 70s.
    22 Sep 2013, 10:59 PM Reply Like
  • Apmarshall62


    I wonder how many cycles the new starter motors are expected to perform before failure.
    23 Sep 2013, 06:16 AM Reply Like
  • Ishikawa,


    If clarity arrives that Axion PbC's will sail through 5 years of hard cycling without loss of DCA performance, I imagine the cash register will already have been doing a lot of ringing by then and the stock will have multiplied.


    That changes the whole reward profile. I'm willing to risk my worst fear because if it is allayed I think the stock is easily a ten bagger in time from here. If I wait for no fear it may have already risen five or ten fold by then as the batteries have proven themselves in the marketplace.


    As for the negative image, if I could point to one reason that I consistently pay the bills by investing relatively small sums, it's that I play devil's advocate -- I do my best to kill my own investment ideas. If I can't and they remain standing unscathed then that's when I commit the most capital.


    Ultimately the batteries' actual performance will be everything and my expression of fears back in 2013 will be nothing.
    23 Sep 2013, 09:57 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks RA, I appreciate your contributions here.
    23 Sep 2013, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • That's gotta be 123 TB. Shhhh!
    20 Sep 2013, 03:34 PM Reply Like
  • Yep. Picked up a few shares, partial fill...


    HTL thinks .12 is next, I think he's right.


    No news today. I thought we had a shot for AH...
    20 Sep 2013, 08:49 PM Reply Like
  • TB, I wish you the best of luck with those shares.
    21 Sep 2013, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • I see some news right around the corner, and its not as if I am sitting on a ton of $1 shares waiting for the elephants to come calling...


    But TG needs to come through for once.
    21 Sep 2013, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • TB, With no delivery of pretty significant news TG will not be the next one going to the bank with tin cup in hand. A year seems like a long time, but it's not.
    21 Sep 2013, 06:55 PM Reply Like
  • I cannot imagine holding Axion shares costing over $.05 as long as a year (the current trading channel is about 3 weeks). TG still has about 2 months before the next earnings call where he promised "sales". 2 more trading cycles, assuming we don't see something in the news before then (and the NS news which is likely but not certain could alter that).


    I agree that a year is not a long time. In this case it is a critical time for the company as well.
    22 Sep 2013, 08:11 AM Reply Like
  • TB, I was hoping his news would have been front loaded in his shared window of possibility for obvious reasons. I am still of the opinion that given NSC has commented that the NS999 and OTR unit are parallel programs that we will see something out of NSC besides the movement of the 999 from a pool side perch. Besides that all we have are behind or in front of the meter and unknown yet alluded to possibilities. In order of significance for me would be NSC OTR, an unknown SS/UPS order in trucking and lastly something grid tied big or small.
    22 Sep 2013, 09:39 AM Reply Like
  • " I am still of the opinion that given NSC has commented that the NS999 and OTR unit are parallel programs that we will see something out of NSC besides the movement of the 999 from a pool side perch."


    The next cc likely will fall in latter half of November. IF NSC plans to construct an OTR 'consist' locomotive populated with PbCs before year end, the battery order would pretty much need to be in hand before the cc.
    22 Sep 2013, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv. Perhaps. My concerns lie more in the areas of purchased technology for the unit. Are the components coming from the same source that slowed down NS999? Also NSC would like to have a good feel for how the NS999 is doing in the field before showing their hand on the OTR unit in my opinion. Thus if the order to Axion is out they might make them keep it quiet for a period until the NS999 has some time in the field. My guess is a million USD order for NSC is not a material event. True?


    I am not yet worried about an impact from Corvus testing. Way too early.
    22 Sep 2013, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • A million dollar order would probably be a material event because the standard is typically 10% of last year's revenue. There may be ways to push timing forward or backward, but it's too big of a number to keep secret.
    22 Sep 2013, 12:39 PM Reply Like
  • >iindelco ... The Corvus battery should have been deployed & operational at the Port of Houston back in April of this year. It is not. Norfolk & Penn State have been tasked with evaluation. This leads me to speculate that NSC has developed a really good DCA evaluation testing regime and that, in this application, the Corvus (and by extension other Li-on chemistry) can't handle the current input/output cycles and/or has a heating/cooling problem. Add in the cost and I'm guessing that Li-on is not good for much more than a mill or mine locomotive where load moving capacitance is not as big a consideration as time of use energy density.


    A flop for rail and I'd guess other heavy, high cycle transport that use batteries for power. It will take longer for failure to appear before capacitance (hopefully PbC capacitance) is applied, except where it is being applied from the beginning, like CAT is doing. The lithium batteries will take longer to show this high cycle DCA weakness I believe might exist.
    22 Sep 2013, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • A million dollar order from NSC will still be seen by the broader public as a non recurrent, fate-sealing event for Axion. IMO, the public's perception of Axion wont change until it becomes 100% convinced that the PbC has a commercial future as a mass product adopted by either Rail, Trucking or Automotive.


    Anything besides this I am afraid will keep the company just floating by, and struggling for survival (I know most of us don't want to see things this way, but the fact is that each time we go to the trough for more money, shareholder equity gets destroyed some more...)


    My two cents on this Sunday afternoon here in London :)
    22 Sep 2013, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • John, Thanks for your insight on the material event classification.
    Amouna, I agree with your perspective but I do have one angle that I'd view the information at differently. I think the yard loco and the OTR applications would be viewed as being similar in their needs as it relates to the energy storage requirements. Really hard deep cycling and fast charging in a bad a$$ed industrial application from the same demanding conservative customer. So I think most would view the second order as a follow on order and a really big thumbs up for the technology minus any unforeseen long term durability testing in the field.


    I don't see the general pubic being a player in Axion yet. I do think there are enough people watching that will accumulate/re-enter first before the average person on the street jumps in. I view this group as being deep enough to change the dynamics pretty quickly since the market cap has eroded. I think John sharing over the years has a whole bunch or eyes looking this way.
    DRich, Yes I've been looking your way for word out of TX on the Port of Houston app. and have seen/heard nada. Since they were supposed to be on the move early this spring I'm guessing your thoughts are directionally correct and the government has determined they need NSC and PSU to step in and give them some good data so they can understand the correct next moves. I think this is wise and best case for them would be if NSC could get both to work. This might be not as good for us since the government agencies are biased based on ignorance or more likely personal/professional greed.
    22 Sep 2013, 02:17 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco,


    I agree with you that a second order by NSC will effectively validate the technology for switcher locomotives, and ideally would get other RR to have a closer look at Axion. Nonetheless, I would not count NSC as a source of recurrent revenue YET. In the meantime, that would have to come as a combo of the traditional lead acid manufacturing in place, and hopefully a few megawatts of power cubes sold to various customers in the Oil and Utility businesses


    I know this question is silly, but what would happen if we were to lose the lead acid manufacturing contract in place for whatever reason? I can only hope by then our PbC business is operational to guarantee enough revenue to support our operational costs.
    22 Sep 2013, 05:43 PM Reply Like
  • If the contract ends it probably won't be abrupt... if nothing happens for Axion by then I'd say we have bigger problems.
    22 Sep 2013, 06:02 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna, I agree with what you say relative to the meaning of possible customer events but would add that the partnering with a second source would be probably the biggest event that could happen to ensure Axions future. The underlying ramifications would be significant even though the revenue stream would be some time out.


    I would view the loss of the flooded LAB contract as not being significant as to how it reflects on Axxion. However this contract is important in how it carries fixed costs in their manufacturing operations and also in making the limited runs of PbC test and customer samples a far more efficient task. It would reduce the runway that Axion has to the next capital raise. Added cash burn is never good.


    It is fortunate for Axion that they bought the operation for peanuts so they don't have significant capital carrying costs to deal with. That being said, the carrying costs of a manufacturing operation are still significant. Let's hope that while this contract is not their future and they will not thrive on it, that they don't lose it because it keeps them in the game with far less pain.


    Also don't mean to discount the importance of having trained skilled workers available. Their contribution is also a key element on Axions road to potential success.
    22 Sep 2013, 06:26 PM Reply Like
  • Heck, Some people will do anything to claim they have a hybrid battery now that Elon claims he wants one.


    From poppycock to poppy seed. Gotta be grant money involved somewhere!


    Bulgaria customs seize heroin hidden in truck’s battery

    20 Sep 2013, 03:39 PM Reply Like
  • Iindelco:: W/o reading yet, my guess is it keeps the SOC at a constant "high".


    Also, likely mellow and "plays well with others" in a string.


    20 Sep 2013, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • HTL, :-))


    Maybe we can take all the old PbC batteries some day and ship them to the region and get them to change the positive plates for free after they look for the one in ten thousand "special" prize batteries.
    20 Sep 2013, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • Iindelco: Yeah, we could paint 'em up like the old Cracker Jack boxes.


    20 Sep 2013, 04:46 PM Reply Like
  • Valleywood might know the implications.


    Hope she doesn't start throwing around nickles like manhole covers.


    Norfolk Southern CFO Rathbone to Retire, Stewart to Succeed

    Edit: Fingers crossed.


    NS signs agreement to cut pollution from Chicago rail yard

    20 Sep 2013, 05:26 PM Reply Like
  • Iindelco: I see Marta has been with the co. for 30 years too. So she might be retiring in a couple years too, prompting another change.


    20 Sep 2013, 05:33 PM Reply Like
  • HTL, A couple years? I'm all for it but I'm kind of hoping she's a fan of the Jolly Green Giant. Don't want to ignore the short term future but a little sustenance soon would make for a brighter couple years from now. Otherwise we're gonna be watching someone else helping out with carbon capture and we'll be sucking fumes.
    20 Sep 2013, 06:01 PM Reply Like
  • Nothing about cleaner locos in the full article, unless I'm misunderstanding what a "truck" is I suppose:


    "The company wants to add another 85 acres and another 800 diesel trucks a day, and is buying land from the city and residents.


    Under the agreement, Norfolk Southern will install the newest pollution controls on trucks that move trailers around the yard by 2018 and install clean engines or diesel filters on cranes and lift trucks, while the city will alleviate congestion from the semi-trucks that sometimes queue on local roadways waiting to get into the yard."

    20 Sep 2013, 06:07 PM Reply Like
  • Looks like it could be a great ePower contract. 800 trucks that have to do a lot of stopping and starting while pulling containers. Sounds perfect for the Day Cab version.
    20 Sep 2013, 07:38 PM Reply Like
  • ii, it means nothing other than Rathbone is ready to retire. He's been among the elite for a long time. It's just his time.


    Don't know his replacement. Assume she's not Martha's sister. The office decor may change however.
    20 Sep 2013, 10:04 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks VW, Just thinking about the possible different methodologies.


    Just as long as the curtains are green. Or that she likes green and the battery operated locos are recognized as a path to more of it.
    21 Sep 2013, 01:28 AM Reply Like
  • ii good speculation. Whenever I hear the words "green" or "maroon" in NS I speculate on their history of hire: green = SR, maroon = N&W. At one time, that was serious stuff. :>)
    By 2020 I imagine everybody will be in black pajamas.


    I believe absolutely, positively, and unquestionably that every senior executive officer (appointed by the President and approved by the Board) at NS loves green. Either that or be a splendid actor. For the next two years, I think I can guarantee that as a reality. I'm betting on it, in fact.


    TEMLO is and will be an option. Maybe not THE path, but surely one possibility. They're spending many millions on that option. And those folks don't spend money lightly. Talk about heavy nickels !
    21 Sep 2013, 10:57 AM Reply Like
  • VW, I've been reading and thinking a little more about NSC and what their plans might be after bumping into a couple comments from their mechanical guys. Considering NSC buys many of their road units at 4k HP which is 10% less than the standard for the other rails, I think this leaves some added opening for efficiency gains which could be had by their electrified consist plans.


    More importantly, for me, NSCs remaining with mostly DC locos offers huge opportunity for the introduction of electrification. I'm sure you know more about this than I as does DRich and a few others. All I can do when I read this older article and think about where they are looking to go is smile. Hybridization 101. Gimme more variable digital HP.


    AC traction: a motive power boss's perspective
    By Don Graab
    Published: April 6, 2010



    Tie all this in with LEADER and you've got some neato cool stuff and mo green.
    21 Sep 2013, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • ii , DRich has forgotten more about this stuff than I ever knew. My responsibilities lay more in the $$ decision of choosing A over B and resided largely in Engineering. Mechanical is a very mysterious black box matrix with a zillion technical variables. What I can tell you is that NS has always (since 1973 anyway) been sensitive to flexibility in power.


    I am exceptionally uncomfortable reporting what Moorman has said about TEMLO plans because I can never remember which he was saying in a public setting and which in NS executive planning sessions. What I can say is that he has been very specific publicly as to what his hopeful plans are for total electric slave units. I am almost certain that Johns Hopkins has an internet record of his presentation on transportation, railroads, and TEMLO application. I have a foggy memory of posting that awhile back. Leaders & Heroes or something like that.....


    Wick Moorman is committed ( including opening the NS wallet very wide) to green corporate culture, personnel mobility, and silo destruction. NS999 has decision muscle behind it. Whether it will prove to be the chosen path I have no clue. But my stars NS has come out four-square behind PbC ! I cannot imagine a more compelling statement than they have made. I'd like a lot of stuff to happen re: NS but we've already come out a winner on this deal.


    Cautionary Full Disclosure Statement: I have been a TEMLO slut since 1975. I have absolute confidence in its long-term adoption and am outrageously (perhaps irresponsibly) hopeful that the time is now.


    Today it is raining and I cannot be outside raising Her Majesty's garden beds. Any time my old bones can escape heavy punishment such as that, my pleasure meter pegs out and optimism runs amok. Today I'm getting crap off the floor in the "barn" and hanging it on the hooks, etc. of my new wall-hanging system. Talk about soft labor ! Hah!


    Listening to football, cleaning the "barn", drinking iced tea, and posting here. It can't get any better. So drink my optimistic
    kool-aid at your own risk. :>)
    21 Sep 2013, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • VW, Just to put some timing on the possibilities, can you recall how long Mr. Moorman has been at the helm? I know I've read in the past that he's pretty much put a ten yr window of opportunity around his time in the throne. I could see him wanting to make sure the plans for the placement of this emerald jewel in his crown were cast in stone.


    PS I'm having visions of squirrels jumping from rafters onto burlap bags hanging from hooks. Cheered on by mice looking up waiting for crumbs hoping not to have to revert to MTW and THHN.
    21 Sep 2013, 07:22 PM Reply Like
  • ii, Mr. Moorman has been in place eight years. I look for him to leave end of 2015 or early 2016. He is a hard businessman (MBA Harvard) and makes his decisions quantitatively. He continues to champion TEMLO. He will abandon it instantly if it does not prove its worth. I have every reason to believe he takes this project personally.


    More importantly, I have every reason to believe all varmint have left the building. All the raceways on the outside walls have been cleared and mice hate clear corners. Working on the piles of crap in the middle of the garage now. Wall hooks, here we come !


    Interestingly, many many . . . . 'um . . . items. . . . have gone missing. I cannot imagine how so much stuff made it to the dump. A mistake, no doubt. Magic maybe?? So far, the missing items have not been noticed as missing.


    Winter will soon be here. Lost items will weave themselves into the mist of memory and with the strong spring winds will be swept out with the fog of all misbegotten notions. I, of course, will have no idea whatever what she is talking about much less what might have happened to those things. Deny. Deny. Deny. Meanwhile I will have a cleaner "barn".


    Counter-intuitively, rats are far easier to kill than mice. A .410 is a great instrument for rats & squirrels, and a .22 with rat shot is great on mice. All three creatures will eat the wiring on tractors needed for snow removal. I need all these chores done before winter. Am convinced the mice have a counterfeit copy of my garage remote.


    Bastiches !
    22 Sep 2013, 11:08 AM Reply Like
  • Farging iceholes.
    22 Sep 2013, 11:51 AM Reply Like
  • VW, I also think Mr. Moorman considers the electrification plan tied into IT to be one of his pinnacle projects intended to dress his corporate achievements. Hell, I'm excited for the team even if it's not Axion inside. And it's not even a pie in the sky program. But details, complex details.


    I still have my grandfathers four ten and my twenty twoyouth from my . Many rodents made their way to Valhalla early as a result of these fine tools in my younger years. The twenty two shot used to be called "Bird Shot". Can't shoot crows anymore. Well, and get caught.


    Denial and I don't recall. I thought those were political tools?
    22 Sep 2013, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • Japan Solar Energy Soars, But Grid Needs to Catch Up
    World's Largest Battery


    To address the issue of integrating solar energy onto the grid in Hokkaido, METI said it has set aside 29.6 billion yen (US$294 million) to install a large storage battery at Hokkaido Electric's Minami Hayakita substation by March 2015 to stabilize the flow of solar power onto the grid. By installing the new battery, expected to be the world's largest with a storage capacity of 60 megawatts, the regional utility will be able to receive an additional 10 percent more electricity. (It would be nearly double the size of the largest battery currently operating in the world, at 36 megawatts, installed in 2012 in China to help integrate renewable energy onto the grid in Zhangbei, Hebei Province.) (See related quiz, "What You Don't Know About Batteries.")


    But the installation alone provides no fundamental solution, and the ministry said it "will continue to ask business enterprises to seek locations other than Hokkaido for large-scale solar power plants."
    20 Sep 2013, 06:34 PM Reply Like
  • I bet they need some kind of fast response storage that will ensure as much energy as possible is captured as the solar energy varies from cloud cover. With the amount of solar arrays, it shouldn't be excessively expensive storage. Wonder where they could find something like that? ;-)
    21 Sep 2013, 09:04 AM Reply Like
  • Japan Creates a Poo-Powered Trike


    The Neo, a product of three years of research, development and design, is based on a 250cc trike, with a built-in toilet for a seat.
    20 Sep 2013, 06:37 PM Reply Like
  • Another BMW forum of people with SS systems catching on to their faults as implemented with enhanced flooded and AGM batteries. Regulators helping their constituents err and the service networks.


    BMW, "Premium motor car" very high quality, Yeah right. Folks it's a affluent persons toy. No problem with that but I'm not one to eat BS and smile in the process.


    "I said a year ago or more that whoever agreed with the stop start system were bonkers..."

    21 Sep 2013, 11:04 AM Reply Like
  • It doesn't seem fair that they're selling a battery that was known to be unable to perform it's intended task, when the battery that can has the crap tested out of it, but no public decision has been made.


    In another note, this kind of headline should trigger a visceral 'sell-at-any-cost" reaction.
    "Tesla’s feat of (financial) engineering:
    ...if the price of the stock drops below his purchase price, Musk might be forced to put up cash or sell shares — what brokers call a margin call."
    21 Sep 2013, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • >JohnM121 ... Tesla can sell their battery pack because they are using an old technology (at least for the modern electronics industry), slightly modified, and has a known performance history to a customer that is not looking at the purchase for ROI or any other economic reason. Few people buy cars based on economics. What economics that are injected into the auto industry arise from either people's expectations & ability to pay or the "pure Evil" of the people's desire for clean air, affordable energy and other things an individual can't influence. Axion is trying to sell a previously unknown device into a customer base in which the economics and satiation of "pure Evil" are the basis of the consideration.
    21 Sep 2013, 03:27 PM Reply Like
  • This morning my wife and I were riding the Harley along the ocean on A1A on our way to find breakfast. It is a beautiful sunny day and my thoughts were just wandering all over the place when one of my favorite stories automatically took over control of my mind. The story of course is the one of Axion and it's soon rise to fame!


    I was allowing my thoughts to roam without limitation and soon I was becoming quite excited about the prospects I was envisioning and almost forgot about the beautiful ocean off to my right as well as the fact that I was riding a motorcycle and should probably pay a little attention to the road! I don't like to admit this to my passenger wife as she may not appreciate my riding distractions!


    Now we are safely back from breakfast and sitting at the pool with my I Pad and thought I would post my thoughts on the APC in order to get feed back from the professionals! I figure what better venue to have my day dreaming either supported or have a monsoon rain on my parade! So either way please have at it and slap me back into the reality that I try so hard to evade! If this has already been discussed then I apologize in advance for I have been a little distracted and not current with the APC.


    This coming Monday through Wednesday Axion will be showing off the ePower truck along with the PbC battery. I believe that some Axionistas are hopeful that we might be surprised with a press release of some "significant orders" while others have stated that we should not be looking forward to any such thing! While I obviously have no real clue either, I am always prone to dreaming about the what if's and maybe's!


    I also think that most of us have the belief that the early adopters of the PbC will be possibly NS, BMW, ePower or the PowerCube application. Today I am dreaming about the first adopter coming from a different source and the one mentioned multiple times in the past and most recently in the 2nd quarter report.


    "Granville continued, "New orders for our PbC batteries came from several sources in the second quarter and subsequent to the end of the second quarter. Some of these orders we have spoken about, such as ePower's $200,000 plus purchase order, and some we have not, and still cannot make public at this time. Small initial batch orders from industry leaders in motive applications would be one example. The Class 8-A, 8-B, and even the Class 7 trucks, present a huge potential market opportunity for Axion and our unique proprietary PbC product."



    With TG predicting "significant orders" by mid November this suggests to me that he just might already have a signed PO in hand but due to the NDA has not been able to announce it until the potential customer announces first. And where would be a great venue to announce a new model of truck stop/start or truck APU with PbC inside than at the truck show that starts on Monday? And would this "small initial batch orders from industry leaders in motive applications" be a clue into the start of a test fleet or such? Add to this the fact that TG probably had some idea of this a couple of months back and decided to schedule the shareholders meeting to follow the big event! What a great way to show off at the truck show, to have the PbC inside the ePower truck and the new APU unit as well as powering the new truck stop/start!


    Now I understand that dreaming is not an investment recommended technique. But unless I am misunderstanding the purpose of "truck shows" and the fact that Axion has stated that the PbC is being tested for the APU market as well as the truck stop/start market I am thinking that maybe, just maybe we could be in store for a possible press release from left field that would signify "significant orders" right before the much delayed annual shareholders meeting!


    Ok, now is the time to slap me back into reality!


    Just thinking,


    21 Sep 2013, 04:07 PM Reply Like
  • Rbrun: First, as to distracted riding, DON'T! As you obviously acknowledged, that's a no-no, based on my riding over 50 years now and being able to walk and tell about it both. Texting is definitely out! ;-))


    As to the "significant" order from the shows or whatever coming that soon, if it was that significant I think it would qualify as a material event and require disclosure under SEC rules. So NDAs would not be able to override those rules.


    So I think if there are any orders they won't be that significant in quantity or dollar value.


    However, if the source of the order is a major player in the OEM market, even though unnamed, it would be significant to the market regardless of quantity or dollar value and we would look for the share price to respond ... under *normal* circumstances.


    Unfortunately in our current circumstance, PUBARed, the most likely result would be continued heavy selling into any rise, tamping any potential significant appreciation.


    MHO and in a semi-permanent state of ignorance,
    21 Sep 2013, 05:45 PM Reply Like
  • Hey RBrun, I don't know if you caught it, be we had an earlier reference to this new concentrator being brought to us by the "redundant department of redundancy". Perhaps your post is from the "non-redundant dept. of non-redundancy"? :-)


    Anyway, I like it! Brings to mind some of my own thoughts re: some of TG's previous comments about cash flow positive in 2012, and 300% increase in revenues, etc. When these didn't come to fruition, my inclination was to believe TG wasn't a straight shooter.


    I've lately been thinking however, that perhaps he saw some very positive things coming but didn't have a good timeline on them. Maybe, just maybe, the very same factors (and more) that that caused him to make these earlier predictions will come to fruition between now and November. --- Can't happen too soon!
    21 Sep 2013, 06:36 PM Reply Like
  • I am hoping for a production order from a company such as Bergstrom for the Park Smart APU unit used by Freightliner on their Cascadia trucks or maybe Cummins for their new stop/start equipped engines. This recurring production type of order would be powerful I believe to the start of the stock appreciation.
    21 Sep 2013, 07:04 PM Reply Like
  • Wayne-
    Isn't it more likely that TG was confused and excited, rather than he was a liar?


    I've never thought he went out of his way to deceive.
    22 Sep 2013, 11:02 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc,


    + 1


    23 Sep 2013, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • >thotdoc ... I agree. I think Mr Granville suffers the same boom & bust enthusiasm cycle we do. Nothing untoward or deceptive on his part. I just expect a little more precision from him.
    23 Sep 2013, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • DRich: that fits in with my prior expression of a "learning curve" as he transitions to a "commercial entity" and, I presume, one of his concerns becomes returning value to shareholders. Part of this is likely learning to employ the old sandbagging routine so that expectations can be exceeded more reliably.


    That's good for a few cycles only though before expectations begin to account for the behavior. Then it's all setting expectations and executing to meet them.


    23 Sep 2013, 11:58 AM Reply Like
  • Reality =( Doesn't seem like Truck Show is leaking any exciting news; or said news is getting faded by endless volume.

    24 Sep 2013, 07:40 PM Reply Like
  • As shows go it was a bit of a dud because most of the attendees worked for municipalities rather than commercial fleets. It was still a good educational opportunity and I learned a number of very important things about the kinds of incentive programs that seem to be taking root across the country and the way ePower stacks up against the principal competitors. (Very attractively)
    24 Sep 2013, 08:04 PM Reply Like
  • John-


    Was there any discussion of either Axion or ePower attending the Green Fleet Conference in Phoenix in early October or the ATA Mgmt Conference & Exhibition in mid-Oct in Orlando?


    I doubt it as I would expect an Axion Press Release but I thought maybe these first conferences were to feel out a program/schedule/exhibit booth. But just curious. Without a saleable product it probably doesn't make sense for ePower (next year hopefully) but I hope AXPW is there pushing to APU vendors, etc.
    24 Sep 2013, 08:22 PM Reply Like
  • ePower really wants to have the two third generation trucks done and fuel economy tested before doing any more shows. Aside from that the details are still pretty sketchy.
    24 Sep 2013, 08:54 PM Reply Like
  • >RBrun357 ... Sadly, I have to agree with H.T.Love. I see nothing in the way of news that sustain a rally higher in share price. A bump up 100% on news is very possible but it would be short lived. A retail shareholder base isn't going to hold faced with 30 to 70 million new shares coming to market. Recurring customer order stream is the best hope ... and what is it "they" say about hope?
    21 Sep 2013, 06:03 PM Reply Like
  • Our real hope is that any revenue insignificant news is picked up as very significant future expectations by some large funds. I don't see a reason why a fund watching in the background like BlackRock won't enter once they have confirmation of NSC, BMW, or even a PC sale to a utility. Those guys can't wait for the last minute to buy.
    21 Sep 2013, 06:27 PM Reply Like
  • FWIW I will be at the Green Truck Show with ePower and then accompany them to New Castle for Thursday. ROAD TRIP!
    21 Sep 2013, 07:35 PM Reply Like
  • Wow, Perfect! I am very jealous of you and the road trip! I trust you will be kind enough to provide us with reports of your adventures?
    21 Sep 2013, 07:40 PM Reply Like
  • Shed the suit. Maybe a little "Keep on Truckin" apparel to augment your business casual OTR attire! Err green? If I remember your old SA picture you don't mind hats. ;-D
    21 Sep 2013, 09:16 PM Reply Like
  • I look forward to reading your reports of next weeks adventures!
    21 Sep 2013, 09:53 PM Reply Like
  • Will ePower have models showing off its truck? Dressed in green, perhaps?? :-)
    21 Sep 2013, 11:10 PM Reply Like
  • >JP ... I've been rooting around the trucking industry. It has led me to wonder about several things that are tangential to ePower. One of them is operators like Knight operate is regions with terrain that ePower could service easily. It is an operator that runs some 4,000 tractors and a lot of them are short haul day cabs around here in Central Texas. The interesting thing to me is that they run their own trailers.


    Knowing that the short chassis of the day cab is a problem to battery placement, has the idea of fitting a fixed or detachable battery rack to a operator owned trailer ever been discussed?


    It's just a passing thought and I know is way out there for implementation, but I just wondered.
    22 Sep 2013, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    As I understand it ePower thinks the day cab is doable.
    It was the day cab with PbC + NG tanks that was likely too short.
    22 Sep 2013, 02:11 PM Reply Like
  • ePower is working on a day cab tractor right now. They're planning on a 240-volt system instead of the 480-volts they use on the sleeper and that change will cut the battery pack in half. It will also make the batteries work harder but feedback from Axion to ePower says they believe the batteries will be able to carry the extra load.
    22 Sep 2013, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • So many specialty apps I can think of in mobile power tied to motive that could use an energy storage device like PBC with better balance between charge and discharge rates. Watched a Scotts Lawn Care guy run his truck for half an hour while he did paperwork and sprayed liquid fertilizer on a residential lawn. All he needed was a PbC or two and some simple electronics tied to his 12VDC pump. So simple even a neand........ Oh and the payback.


    Just need to find the right converters that service these types of companies that do service work like this, bucket trucks, hydraulic or electric chain saws and and and.


    Hey guys. I have something that costs a little more up front but it charges quicker and if your guys don't charge it before they take off for the weekend, No problemo.
    22 Sep 2013, 04:33 PM Reply Like
  • JP: "... feedback from Axion to ePower says they believe the batteries will be able to carry the extra load".


    And that has *implications* that goes directly to RA's recently expressed concerns about longevity. If the heavier workout imposed by the 240 volt system still yields a battery life of 5+ years, it implies that the slightly less demanding load in the 480 volt configuration will sail to 5+ years w/o breaking a sweat.


    Another thought occurred to me today that we haven't discussed much. Tim's KIAS (King In A String) benefits. Keeping in mind that we somewhat emulate, and maybe compete with, an AGM/super-cap setup, we have a couple of advantages in both cost and longevity.


    First, an AGM/super-cap configuration will still require heavy battery-string management to keep a string in balance. This adds complexity, cost and maybe less "up-time".


    The PbC-based configurations have none of this. This says that benefits of lower first-expense, lower TCO and greater "up-time" will accrue.


    Just a thought about one of our potential competitors that drifted my way while banging in EOD stuff since I've recovered the data.


    22 Sep 2013, 06:20 PM Reply Like
  • Again, what a blessing it is to have such an aggressive, innovative, and not-so-risk-averse customer as is ePower. That they continue to push the envelope like this is just awesome. May fortune favor the bold...


    DTG 1342 PDT 22Sep2013
    22 Sep 2013, 10:29 PM Reply Like
  • 48: And may the wounds heal quickly and leave little trace of ever having been suffered!! :-))


    23 Sep 2013, 06:14 AM Reply Like


    <Armadillo-T basically rolls up into a ball to park, which cuts it size down from 110 inches to a mere 65 inches when fully folded.
    While the foldable aspect may be a novelty, the Armadillo-T’s electric powertrain is not. It’s a four-wheel-drive electric with 4 in-wheel motors and a 13.6-kwh lithium-ion battery pack.>
    21 Sep 2013, 10:33 PM Reply Like
  • Froggey77,
    The concept makes no sense to me. What good is it to have the car fold up after you park it? You need a normal size parking space to park it in the first place and you need the same size to unfold it. What happens if you fold up the car, go into a store and then someone comes up and parks directly behind you? You can't unfold your car until the person behinds you leaves, so there is no advantage for this design. IMHO.
    23 Sep 2013, 11:02 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    More of an item of interest rather than something serious.


    However at 65" folded you could park it nose first.
    They claim 3 would fit in one spot.
    23 Sep 2013, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech, Good points.


    I'll also reiterate that if I'm zooming around full sized vehicles I'd rather be in something that can handle a reasonable crash or a motorcycle where I have a better chance to maneuver and get out of the way.


    I do like the thought of these in areas with restricted zoning if there are such areas in the world.
    23 Sep 2013, 07:46 PM Reply Like
  • Renault Twizy Sales Falling Off…Everywhere


    While not considered a car the Twizzy's sales are 1/3 of last years for the first 8 months of 2013.
    21 Sep 2013, 10:44 PM Reply Like
  • "Optional windows and a cargo edition don’t seem to be helping the Twizy too much."


    So having windows is an option! .


    From Renault's Website: "Twizy Z.E. Concept is an all-electric vehicle aimed primarily at busy city dwellers who need to pick their way through the urban jungle. Every day, they juggle work commitments with a busy social life, so efficiency, speed and simplicity are key."


    Yeah, good luck doing that without windows.


    Soon Renault will be back to being completely owned by the French government.


    Wouldn't it be just as advantageous to own a new Model T. Few moving parts, sit in the open without the hinderance of glass, probably better range, affordable, uses few resources to produce it as it is so simple, and is probably more reliable than this complicated, ugly hobgoblin of an automobile.


    Probably inside of Renault, the team that produced this bunion are held in awe and high esteem for their creativity.


    I remember back in the late 70's and early 80's the Chrysler people had such low esteem for their customers that they called them DOF's, Dumb Old Fa**s. You got to wonder to exactly what low standard Renault holds its customers and the name it has given the customers who would buy this automobile like thing. Don't want to call it an automobile for fear of insulting automobile enthusiasts the world over.
    22 Sep 2013, 09:27 AM Reply Like
  • Metro, It'd be great in a utopian society. Not one where every thing you buy gets grabbed through the windowless side panel and you drive around all day worried about people texting in Yank Tanks or cars with errr um engines/bumpers.
    22 Sep 2013, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • FPA put together a few articles on what's going on with the electrical grid.


    Background Information For Investing Opportunities Associated With The Transition From Centralized To Distributed Energy Resources

    21 Sep 2013, 11:30 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks for posting the info.
    22 Sep 2013, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • More, not very meaningful chatter and a good picture on the AltoonaWorks facebook page concerning the NS999
    22 Sep 2013, 10:30 AM Reply Like
  • Some interesting ideas for a hybrid engine using linear accelerators.
    An explosion in the cylinder turns directly into electricity. No crankshaft etc. necessary.




    The first uses springs to return the pistons to position which sounds questionable to me. (I don't know enough to give an educated opinion so don't put any weight behind my guesses.)


    The second seems like a better piston return idea but seems like a rough ride to me.


    My thoughts lead me to firing the fuel off in three positions. In the middle as in the first video and returning to the position by firing off on both ends as well. But it would be a simultaneous firing at both ends.


    The first video says they expect a commercial version would get 40 hp out of it at 125 lbs.
    "Several could be stacked together to increase power."
    Going by what they said I believe they have built one but all they show is an animation. So I may be wrong.


    Assuming the same size for my suggestion of 3 firing areas. I would expect 3 X the hp at the same weight.


    Anybody want to spend a few minutes on it, I'd be happy to hear some thoughts.
    22 Sep 2013, 07:20 PM Reply Like
  • >froggey77 ... In a nutshell, there are a few problems that on first blush don't seem very intuitive because the concept is really simple & cool. I'd go through the following link and list the weaknesses but each type has its own.


    The highlights for coil inductors are mechanical resistance is far greater than energy delivered. The current produced is transient and for most of the cycle is overwhelmed by the battery voltage so current delivered is a very short part of the generation cycle & "spikey" at either end . Permanent magnets don't enjoy the heat & vibration of the environment. I'll let you read and maybe a real electrical engineer can explain it better.


    The only place all the losses & disadvantages make sense is NASA using it in a Stirling cycle because a plutonium fuel source lasts a long time and amperage needs are low.

    22 Sep 2013, 08:08 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks DRich
    It looks straightforward, easy and simple.
    Which begs the question: Why hasn't it been done already?


    I usually end up learning there are very good reasons. (Even if I don't know what they are. Yet.)
    22 Sep 2013, 09:09 PM Reply Like
  • IINM a linear alternator-shock absorber system attracted a few press reports on issuance of a patent a few years back.


    Some military weapons systems have employed linear alternators for several years.
    22 Sep 2013, 10:18 PM Reply Like
  • This is another opposed piston engine design.


    I don't think you will ever see any radical engine designs coming out of the automotive industry. There is no way they will give up 100 plus years of engine R&D. Maybe an outsider with a niche market might make a go of it though.


    23 Sep 2013, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • VictorG
    Thats the Eco Motors engine. There is a factory that is being built and supposed to start delivering next year.


    Chinese auto giant building $200M factory to make EcoMotor’s efficient engines
    Five-year-old, Bill Gates and Khosla-backed, EcoMotors is finally commercializing its efficient engine technology. And it’s got a killer deal to do it: a $200 million plant being built by Chinese auto giant Zhongding Power.


    "Startup EcoMotors has reached a “massive inflection point” in the life of its business, as Khosla Ventures partner Andrew Chung explained it to me in an interview last week. On Tuesday the five-year-old startup, which is backed by Khosla, Bill Gates and Braemar Energy Ventures, announced that it has struck a deal to have Chinese auto parts giant Zhongding Power build a $200 million factory in the Anhui Province in eastern China that will make EcoMotor’s efficient, low cost and light weight engines.


    The factory will be the first in the world building EcoMotor’s “opoc,” opposed piston, opposed cylinder engine, at a commercial scale. When it starts production in 2014, the factory will aim to produce 150,000 engines per year. There’s also an adjacent site that could expand production to 400,000 engines per year down the road."


    Apparently and unfortunately you are correct. No American automaker went for it, .....Yet.
    23 Sep 2013, 06:51 PM Reply Like
  • froggey
    Thanks for the link, I wouldn't have thought that the engine would be so far along in development.


    23 Sep 2013, 10:52 PM Reply Like
  • >froggey77 ... It has been done before and the best present use of the linear generator, I know of, is onboard Cassini. Several of the drawbacks don't exist in space and generator efficiency is not as big a problem as generator existence. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, rotary motion will be preferred for quite some time.
    22 Sep 2013, 09:27 PM Reply Like
  • My instablog is updated through the 13th, with chart going through the 20th.


    Nothing we wouldn't expect revealed, of course.


    Some things that may not be obvious are mentioned.


    Buy:sell generally nasty but (was) improving (Sneak Preview: the 20th, not in there yet had a horrible buy %, 10.6, now the *new* eighth worst I've recorded since 2/2012, and daily shorts were 0!).


    Intra-day price spread got in excess of 7% one day and was generally a bit on the high side.


    85% price continues decline and we are now steadily injecting sub-$0.13 VWAPs into the window as I mentioned we would in the past.


    Daily shorts have been acting as predicted: generally sideways while vacillating around a low range. I suggested that as long as this holds we won't see any price appreciation because it is heavy selling causing this IMO.


    I've mentioned several times I expect sub-$0.12 prices. Nothing has changed my mind.


    In my instablog I've left the details in each daily post rather than trimming certain stuff. I'll clean it up as I continue to add entries to bring it current.



    23 Sep 2013, 06:32 AM Reply Like
  • HTL,


    In my opinion, we will see sub 10 cents a share before the dust settles. Our only near term hope is some significant news to come out of New Castle...
    23 Sep 2013, 07:05 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna: I can't disagree ... except for one thing. If things are based on percentage by the financiers, rather than absolute values, the share price decline in absolute terms should slow.


    When I get the rest of the data up I plan to look over the week-ending figures and see if there's a more or less reliable rate that can be detected.


    BTW, I forgot to mention another intra-day all-time low, $0.1227, occurred on 9/20 and an all-time VWAP low on 9/18, $0.1252.


    It's a shame that I now view "improvements" in 1/100th of a penny increments.


    23 Sep 2013, 07:31 AM Reply Like
  • We all know that TG and co are focused on running a business and the common belief is he could not care less about the share price. Still I find it very odd what someone who is considerably invested - both financially and emotionally- for close to 10 years in AXPW thinks of its share price.


    Maybe what he means is that short term fluctuations are not consequential for him, but still the stock has lost 80% plus of its value in 3 years. Institutional ownership is around 6%, and by the time it bottoms I think it we could visit Tom Konrad's target price of 6 or 7 cents a share. I am really not looking forward to it :(
    23 Sep 2013, 07:50 AM Reply Like
  • I still hold the same opinion I did at the beginning of the latest cap. raise. Zero investment. They will leave with as much baby and bathwater as they can but will not risk one red cent of their principal. If it buries the company, oh well.
    23 Sep 2013, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • Iindelco,


    I assume you are speaking about the institutionals, right ?


    In this case we the legacy shareholders and insiders will be left holding the bag...and by the way, is there any default event triggered by a share price collapse ?
    23 Sep 2013, 08:45 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna, Yes and yes. HTL, John and a few others spoke at great length about the implications of a sub ten cent share price. Directionally it's like all the other clauses in the contract. Prior share holders stand naked and wait.
    23 Sep 2013, 09:56 AM Reply Like
  • The good news is that it only would take approximately $8,400,000.00 to buy up an additional 70 million shares in the oncoming possible dilution at $.12!


    I have about $5.00 to put towards the cause right now, how about anybody else out there? ;-))
    23 Sep 2013, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks for the clarification iindelco!


    I don't think the PIPE institutional investors are some sort of activists whose purpose is to seize control of Axion and turn it around, but rather as hot money looking to drive prices down to amass before selling on upside. TG and his former CFO got themselves and the company in this mess, and I hope they get it out of it!
    23 Sep 2013, 11:10 AM Reply Like
  • >RBrun367 ... I'm waiting for a reason ... a business reason ... to buy more. I feel I've done my part.
    23 Sep 2013, 11:12 AM Reply Like
  • DRich,


    I understand completely. I too have amassed a fairly large chunk of Axion stock to the tune of a few hundred thousand shares and am now wishing that I would have curbed my appetite a bit in order to pick up more once we truly see some "significant orders" to support the hype that has been fed to us by TG.


    Still keeping my fingers crossed that TG is not pulling another stunt like before. I am very uncomfortable sitting here with my seat belt fastened still waiting for 300% revenue growth! If this "significant orders" does not show this time around I don't even want to suggest what my opinion of TG will be!
    23 Sep 2013, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun,


    I think TG "knows" deep down that if he doesn't deliver this time around on his "significant order" prediction, then whatever credibility he has left among us will evaporate...
    23 Sep 2013, 01:26 PM Reply Like
  • He has no credibility. At this point it is just a question of whether or not what he plans eventually happens, and within what time frame. I don't believe many investors are banking on his statements, though many of are still hoping on the company and particularly the technology.


    TG is just "there".
    23 Sep 2013, 02:01 PM Reply Like
  • I think it would also be useful to set expectations on the meaning of "significant" revenues.
    23 Sep 2013, 02:15 PM Reply Like
  • By all means, FPA. One man's significant is another man's "piddling".
    23 Sep 2013, 02:36 PM Reply Like
  • Based on what information we have available, my bet is that "significant" means one or two power cube sales--three at most. He already stated in the Q2 conference call, that they expected to sell a few this year. That, plus most of the increased RFP activity seems focused on grid storage, plus the fact that nothing else we know about could possibly generate significant sales leads me to conclude it is almost certainly power cube sales that he was referring to.


    I will be underwhelmed if they sell one.
    I will be happy if they sell two.
    I will be ecstatic if they sell three.
    23 Sep 2013, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • I will be underwhelmed if they sell 3 late next year.
    I will be happy if they sell two this year.
    I will be ecstatic if they sell one this week.


    For me time is of the essence and it's not going well so far.
    23 Sep 2013, 06:04 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack,


    If that were really the case, the board would have replaced him ages ago with a more dynamic and charismatic leader. The fact that he is still running the show means he brings to the table skills that the board deems important to the future success of Axion.
    23 Sep 2013, 06:32 PM Reply Like
  • Have you looked at the BOD lately ? TG owns them. The old timers are retiring & throwing in the towel.
    23 Sep 2013, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • Just to add some illumination to my earlier comment, I was talking about my opinion of the perception of us investors, NOT what the Axion Board of Directors may or may not think of Granville. Its painfully obvioius that Axion's management and Board are focused on many things far more important to them than the opinions of their shareholders. This is perhaps the upside (for them) from having no institutional investors.
    24 Sep 2013, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • TB: LoL! "... upside (for them) from having no institutional investors"


    However, if their behavior doesn't change they may have a slew of "institutionalized investors", either due to insanity or mayhem! =>8-O


    24 Sep 2013, 12:54 PM Reply Like
  • I always wondered about what it would feel like to be on the leading edge of something, this is pretty much as close as ill get.


    It's making the bleeding edge look inviting.


    Watched the movie Jobs the other night and was trying to compare us to how a whole new market was devolped and if there have been any companies that look so bad on the market but seem to be strong from the actions it's taking ,have ever made it to stardom.


    Jobs was an a-hole but he had vision, id like to see the movie or book about TG and axion. Hopefully by then we all have our own private viewing room in the house and not the b wing of some institution.
    23 Sep 2013, 10:38 AM Reply Like
  • LOL --- Perhaps I belong in an institution, as I remain optimistic despite all the travails we've been through. And I'm looking forward to having some redundancy broken this week with reports from the truck show and the annual investors' meeting. --- Institutionalize me if necessary, but I'm actually feeling a "tad" bit excited this morning with anticipation. I even have a limit order in for a few more shares; found a $5 bill in the bottom of my sock drawer. :-)
    23 Sep 2013, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • Wayne, Glad to see your excitement. Just to add a little more excitement maybe one of these. I think Axionistas should all get one for free. Just enough range to get to the institution. But not back.


    A trip via LAB? Or is it a trip to the SLAB? I know I'd be in the latter class if I hopped on one. 8-P


    Self-Powered Self-Balancing S-Walker Board to release in markets by 2014 priced at €699

    23 Sep 2013, 11:59 AM Reply Like
  • I proposed this as our theme song some time back.



    23 Sep 2013, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • HTL, I remember when, I remember, I remember when you made that proposal. Becomes more fitting as it ages.
    23 Sep 2013, 02:23 PM Reply Like
  • Does anyone have a link to a website regarding this truck show?
    23 Sep 2013, 12:01 PM Reply Like

    23 Sep 2013, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks greentongue, I appreciate it.
    23 Sep 2013, 02:47 PM Reply Like
  • I knew that Jay Bowman from ePower was going to be there and Vani from Axion, but I didn't realize that TG and Jack Shindle from Axion were going to be there as well. Anyone know what Jack Shindle's job is at Axion? I don't remember hearing his name before?
    23 Sep 2013, 03:54 PM Reply Like
  • Linkedin works well. BTW, It is not perfect but I can tell you that based on this one tool I see no increases in Axions marketing department.

    23 Sep 2013, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks IINDelco. Here it is:


    Jack Shindle
    Vice-President Engineering at Axion Power International, Inc.
    23 Sep 2013, 04:50 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco Thanks for the reference to Linkedin re. who is Jack Shindle.


    While JS is not marketing, he may be able to wear both EE & marketing hats. Linkedin shows he was in business for himself for 4 years, & the fact that he is on this road trip, he would likely recognize the marketing benefit of rolling out the red carpet, to Dr. Barnhart of Stanford, wrote; “1) I will certainly contact Axion and other promising storage technologies, Aquion for example, to obtain life cycle data.” relative to the CA Energy Storage Mandate. And “2) My study should not disappoint Axion, but instead be a claim of pride used by the company.” Positive exposure should be highly beneficial for AXPW PowerCube 2014 & later sales. However, I too am looking for more immediate sales.


    If Jack Shindle is also present at the Shareholder’s shindig, it would be great if someone attending could bend his ear on another question I have: Where does AXPW stand in the process of a proprietary Battery Identification Number (BIN), equivalent to an auto’s VIN, to be used in conjunction with a factory installed, automatic capture & reporting system of PbC batteries produced by authorized AXPW suppliers.
    23 Sep 2013, 09:41 PM Reply Like
  • Dan, I agree with your thoughts. I do think the resource person they are taking is right for the task at hand. And in small companies people certainly need to wear many hats.


    My point concerning marketing folks was really a separate point as it relates to using Linkedin as a tool to see personal additions and subtractions at some level in an organization. I have been doing a search using "linkedin axion power" for some time and haven't seen any additions in marketing level staffing. This doesn't perfectly prove they have not added in the area but I would expect marketing people to have their profiles on Linkedin more than perhaps other professions on average.


    I understand the tracking tech you're touching on and I'd be surprised if Axion has spent much if any time on this. I'd expect this to come with a tier one auto supplier relationship if it happens.
    23 Sep 2013, 10:06 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco, I retired, a while back, from a large financial institution, 200k + employees, where I held various positions, including ops, marketing, product & project mgt, & which required working with our middle market and large corp sales divisions. What I observed is a sales force that excelled, with compensation that was part base & part sales results. The sales results part could add a significant % to the sales folk’s salary. Sales folks that have boots on the ground & salary skin in the game are much more successful at closing the sale. Those that didn’t meet targets, weren’t long term sales employees.


    AXPW, with about 80 employees, doesn’t have the luxury or finances to have separate sales divisions, but they can hire sales folks. Vani Dantam, has “Hire, manage and mentor sales managers and engineers? globally” in his job description on LinkedIn. A lot has been said on this blog re. TG & his credibility re. closed sales. However, according to LinkIn, Vani Dantam has been with AXPW for 1yr & 9 mo. & his title is Senior Vice-president, Business Development, Sales & Marketing. He wears many hats, but I’m hoping it’s a typo that LinkIn shows that engineers are also his responsibility. If not, he should drop the responsibilities that are not directly linked to closing a sale, and begin the sales hiring part of his responsibility.


    Vani started while AXPW was still a development stage co. (maybe why the engineers & Jack Shindle at Greening 2013?) While his LinkedIn experience appears to include management of pre-existing sales divisions, I don’t see anything in his LinkedIn background that indicates he has started the equivalent of a sales division or department. My take is that Vani has a good high level, senior executive level approach of Marketing & Business Development, hence the Greening Your Fleet 2013, but has no experience of developing a sales culture, compensation, & force from the ground up. iindelco, I agree with your sales assessment. I also believe that if Axion had even 1 sales mgr or person, besides Vani, that sales person would have been registered at Greening 2013 along with Jack Shindle.


    TG is responsible for his sales communication errors & his hiring of our Senior Business Development, Sales & Marketing executive. However, I don’t believe we bloggers give enough credit/blame for the lack of sales. I do believe that TG, should be holding VD’s toes to the fire to be sure that Axion has developed the necessary sales culture & compensation package, & begins hiring the sales force that will provide boots on the ground & salary skin in the game to get those recurring sales NOW. Otherwise, we will be blogging this time next year about Pipe #2.
    24 Sep 2013, 03:42 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks for the bio Dan. Well you certainly know more about the topic than I.


    All I've seen happen since Vani was brought on via very limited Linkedin info. in the marketing arena was the prior head marketing guy moving into a new role in the department and the one resignation discussed here. Doesn't mean Vani has not made his mark but alas no major sales or contracts yet other than ePower.


    I'd guess Axion will be a whole different company if we're blogging about PIPE #2 without at least one full meal level fish sooner rather than later.


    BTW, I prefer a balanced compensation package between base salary and pay for performance as well. Just as long as the latter is structured for real value added above gimme level performance.


    I'd also hope Vani is nothing more than a dotted line mentor to engineering as it related to areas like automotive. That being said, I'd guess he has some engineers that support sales given the nature of the beast.
    24 Sep 2013, 08:31 AM Reply Like
  • Ii


    Remember that Vani also has stock options at about $1.40 That too is a big incentive.
    24 Sep 2013, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • Albert, While I like that Axion has not moved down strike prices for the options granted to motivate key players, I do wonder how much of an incentive options so far out of the money really are.
    24 Sep 2013, 10:00 AM Reply Like
  • Speaking from experience, they mean little when they are this far out of phase with current reality.
    24 Sep 2013, 10:26 AM Reply Like
  • TB, My experience in witnessing others in similar situations.
    24 Sep 2013, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • "key players" awarded new 3 year employment contracts with annual bonuses also participated in the $1 million side deal accompanying the PIPErs. Investing company officers purchased common stock and warrants with exercise prices well below $1.40
    24 Sep 2013, 11:14 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks much Dan for the great post. Would love to have it forwarded on to Axion senior management.
    25 Sep 2013, 11:09 AM Reply Like
  • thotdoc> -- RE: "Wayne- Isn't it more likely that TG was confused and excited, rather than he was a liar? --- I've never thought he went out of his way to deceive."


    Hey thotdoc, it appears you may have misinterpreted my earlier comment, so I just want to briefly mention [and clarify] that I agree with you. Your sentiments seem pretty similar to what I felt I had tried to say.
    23 Sep 2013, 01:54 PM Reply Like
  • good to b on the same page
    23 Sep 2013, 05:01 PM Reply Like
  • Old news??

    23 Sep 2013, 03:06 PM Reply Like
  • NJB, Yes. I read something on it some time ago. Don't see much in the link that differs from the last article I read on the topic.
    23 Sep 2013, 03:19 PM Reply Like
  • HTL


    You are a joy




    As I look back over 60 years - many of the best decisions made were what others said "were crazy"


    We are not crazy...the system may be...but AXPW and we are not.


    All in goodtime


    Things are happening - count on it
    23 Sep 2013, 03:16 PM Reply Like
  • Rig Zone article made it to Wall Street Sector Selector. Hopefully they can get some attention at the show this week.


    Powering Up: Technology Investing in Trucking Batteries.

    23 Sep 2013, 04:38 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting. This is what this guy learns from his visit to the Tesla approved repair shop. Too bad no real detail on some points.


    What Happens When A Tesla Car Crashes?


    "The roadsters fall apart. Perhaps 20-30% or more of the roadsters have to go through a rebuild, and the battery packs fail as well. This so far doesn’t seem to be remotely the case with the Model S."

    23 Sep 2013, 08:49 PM Reply Like
  • My first thoughts...


    I wonder how many ICE accidents include a fire? We now have an anecdotal account of "hundreds" of damaged/wrecked inoperable Teslas without a fire yet... But should we expect a fire with such a small sample? Does that prove anything?


    Also, I key on the " far..." qualifier in the praise for the S models. For such a young model, with so few cars out there, does it prove anything that its longevity (LOL, in such a brief period of time) "so far" is better than a sister vehicle which DOES have a longer operating history?
    23 Sep 2013, 08:57 PM Reply Like
  • IINDelco,
    I find all the rear-end crashes to be interesting. I wonder if there is data on this for the Prius and other HEV/EVs that use regenerative braking? Also, I wonder if some of the other vehicles turn on the braking light when the regenerative braking is working? I can see where slowing down without braking lights coming on would be a cause of crashes. People are trained to watch for brake lights, to know if the car in front of them is slowing down. To not have them come on would really screw this dynamic up.


    Interesting, according to the Tesla forums on this the break lights do come on when the care is in standard regenerative braking mode.
    24 Sep 2013, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech, Interesting points. I also agree that people develop a habit of getting cues to adjust speed from the brake lights and that more aggressive slowing of a vehicle w/o the brake lights being activated could surely be a factor.


    The solution for this would not be easy either. Always turning on the brake lights when the dynamic brakes are activated would be maddening. It would have to be tied in to speed and how aggressive the dynamic braking is. Maybe, if the car has electronics for rear proximity of other motorists, a factor of distance to the next driver.


    Anyway, a good reason not to follow too closely plus keeping your hands and your mind on your primary task.


    Could also be too many of these TSLA drivers are good looking? You can't attempt to mate and drive at the same time without unwanted variables being imparted on your plans.
    24 Sep 2013, 11:36 AM Reply Like
  • IINDelco,
    Here's a Canadian article that takes both of our views into consideration.

    24 Sep 2013, 11:58 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks LabTech, Seems you're not the only one thinking about it. We're now a group of at least 3 plus those that have already suffered forward and rearward "unwanted variables". :-(


    Actually I'm very surprised this seems to be an open issue. If true, pretty sorry statement for an agencies that study everything to the gnats a$$.


    Hey, at my age with my poor vision I hate those blue high discharge headlamps that have about the same visual impact as someone driving with their high beams on as well. Oh, and Axion sub 12 cents to while I'm at it.
    24 Sep 2013, 12:08 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech, interesting post. I wonder what US rules of the the road would be applied for e-Power conversions with regenerative braking & how is e-Power addressing the brake light on or off issue. One could reasonably assume truckers using deceleration, vs a hard brake in stop/go traffic, if that will increase their overall mpg & boost their charge.
    24 Sep 2013, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • FYI, rear brake lights come on when ANY brake (engine/jake brake or other) is used in most modern class 8 trucks...
    24 Sep 2013, 06:23 PM Reply Like
  • TB, I don't think you have a large enough sample size and enough time since launch to determine much about fires in crashes other than you don't have an absolute disaster perhaps. It would be more telling in this aspect if you had data from the population concerning unit crash level information such as type and magnitude of force.


    What we can tell is that the roadster appears to be a POS if the information he is sharing is correct. This does not bode well for the Model S. Although we shouldn't discount some level of lessons learned.


    As you suggest it's early.


    Wasn't the roadster an over one hundred thousand dollar car?
    23 Sep 2013, 09:51 PM Reply Like
  • Wasn't there just an article where it won the "safety test" too along with Car of the year ?
    23 Sep 2013, 09:54 PM Reply Like
  • LT, Yes, This is crash worthiness based on different types of mandated government crash tests. This is a good indicator of certain aspects of vehicle safety and engineering but doesn't tell you everything about the possibilities of other potential issues in large vehicle populations. This comes from sound engineering. This is why, on occasion, you see issues in large populations later in life like the more recent request by the US for Chrysler to do a recall on certain Jeep models due to a higher incidence of thermal events.
    23 Sep 2013, 10:22 PM Reply Like
  • Safety is not the same as fixability and cost to repair. Do you need to replace the 'headlight assembly' when all that's need is the lens? A lot more vehicles have some kind of body work done in their lifetime than are involved in major accidents.


    People that linked their ego with something like a car, may not want to complain in public when something goes wrong. So it may be worse than we know. There is ultimately a backlash if there is a deception. That is what is happening with climate. Even the tesla is selling carbon credits, so buying one just allows someone else to release co2. And now some of us know that the carbon break-even is close to the lifespan of the battery, so the buyers of a $15000 40 mpg compact car are emitting less co2 than the 75K supercar.


    My prediction/hope is that the epower long-distance and soon day cab trucks will result in less full life-cycle co2 emission than all of the electric vehicle ever made. On a fule only basis, a tesla seems to save less than 1 gallon per day. A truck may save 20 or 50 times this much,
    24 Sep 2013, 10:11 AM Reply Like
  • I'm sorry if this has been beat to death but what is the issue with a sub 10 cent price in regards to the financing.


    24 Sep 2013, 11:36 AM Reply Like
  • Ryan: it is just another "Equity Condition" that *may* impose additional requirements (cash payments?) if the holders desire it.


    EDIT: But I don't recall how many days are needed and if it's VWAP or ...?
    24 Sep 2013, 11:59 AM Reply Like
  • I cannot blame other people for my mistakes;
    I've been reading Bangw. Maya. and of course JP and HTL the last 3 years.
    I am now about to get off the AXPW train...
    Not only has this train never left the station... I 've been paying a very expensive ticket (1$) for a ride that has never taken place; in the meanwhile other trains have been traveling;
    And above all i have to live in the Greek austerity...
    I think sooner or later it will be "time to say goodbye"
    I repeat this once more
    24 Sep 2013, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • Thegreekgatsby> --- Just want to take a moment to wish you the very best. Sorry to hear how far you've ridden this down; I've come quite a ways down myself. Obviously, nobody's crystal ball is perfectly clear, or we would all have done things differently. Given what we know today, I believe the odds favor a turnaround before the end of the year; but who's to say. I even added a few more shares this morning. --- Again, all the best!
    24 Sep 2013, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • TGG: Heh! You deleted the original comment? Wiped out my reply too! :-))


    Wished you best luck going forward and said keep an eye out here and when the train leaves with lots of good momentum you'll still have time to jump in for a nice long up hill ride - maybe end with a 5 bagger instead of a 10 bagger. Might recoup losses then.


    Again, best wishes for you going forward.
    24 Sep 2013, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • HTL, Your original comment is still there for me to see. It is in the last concentrator 268.
    24 Sep 2013, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • Ah! I can't handle the complexity of the concentrators. When I saw the "posted again", I though "re-post".


    Oh well.


    Thanks for cluing me in.


    24 Sep 2013, 01:23 PM Reply Like
  • Our expectations of the company are affected more by the daily stock price than we realize.


    I haven't written TG off just yet. There is still the NSC report, the bi-weekly meetings with BMW, the ePower ramp up, and PC sales.


    If any one of these is true and not BS, then I really don't care what the PIPErs do to the stock price at this point.


    In fact, I might even be happy if this thing goes down to a nickel by the time they exit. I've got cash waiting and I'm sure many others do too.


    Coil the spring.
    24 Sep 2013, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma,


    Good point. The PIPErs driving the price down could actually be a good thing in the form of a chance to buy shares at levels otherwise not possible.


    If the PIPErs average conversion price is above your own buy price, then the PIPE doesn't dilute you. It actually is accretive to you because the PIPErs put more money in the company kitty for their shares than you paid for yours.
    24 Sep 2013, 11:08 PM Reply Like
  • that is why i find it unlikely pipers bother to beat up the price much more, but meh. this is the only penny stock i have ever owned.
    24 Sep 2013, 11:12 PM Reply Like
  • R.A.: et al: are you forgetting that this deal has a full-ratchet anti-dilution component? A "true up" as we progress?


    It will be *extremely* difficult for any non-PIPER to get a price equal to, much less below, what the PIPERs pay. This gets even harder with the passage of time as fewer retail folks are left to run for the exits screaming with pain as the theater burns to the ground.


    Moreover, although more shares may be bought at lower prices, that works great when there's *not* heavy dilution going on. Otherwise it just means that your upside is capped at a point loer than what would have otherwise existed.


    Essentially, down the road you'll get less for each of your shares, in proportion to the dilution, in either cap gains or dividends if they are ever instituted.


    I like to see the bright side of things, but let's be careful about wishful thinking! ;-))


    25 Sep 2013, 08:50 AM Reply Like
  • HTL, if the pipers want to control the share price, they support us at 10 cents. if they don't, we get a break on dilution for a month.


    i don't get why anyone would vote against more shares AND want a price above 10 cents. am i missing something?
    25 Sep 2013, 10:27 AM Reply Like
  • MM: "anyone" being normal investors would certainly agree on both counts.


    A "fanancier" who believes big news will eventually drive prices higher could want lowest possible prices now because the contract assures they could be holding a ton of shares when the news comes.


    Since each issue is given at 15% off the lowest twenty days VWAP in a 40-day window *OR* 15 % of the prior trading day's VWAP if lower than that 20-day thingy, they want lower price *if* they are accumulating. Not only do they benefit at each initial issue, but each true-up gives them more shares if the VWAP goes lower and doesn't give them more shares if the VWAP goes higher.


    If they are "just take what we can get right now" mode, more shares at 15% off *AND* they sell hard driving price lower and then get more shares at true-up to sell again if price is lower.


    If big news hits and drives price up from whatever their current cost basis is, more shares is better and they win again.


    I don't think they really care if it goes below $0.10 because they have nice options there too.


    As I said long ago - win/win/win situation for them. The *only* risk I see for them is if they drive potential buyers away and they have to get their $ directly from the company then at a hefty penalty.


    Why other would vote against more shares is probably the usual reason - returns to existing holders are reduced down the road through real dilution in this case.


    25 Sep 2013, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • "These are the times that try men's souls"


    - Thomas Paine
    24 Sep 2013, 01:58 PM Reply Like
  • Put on your flight jacket and prayer beads and give er' a whirl.


    China's 1st electric aircraft batch produced

    24 Sep 2013, 02:02 PM Reply Like
  • Iindelco: no prayer beads needed if it's used within its intended purposes. That will likely have a terrific glide ratio and be able to pull off a short-field landing w/o problem.


    I'd avoid flights over congested urban areas though - narrowness between buildings might make find a good landing spot difficult.


    I assume the LI batteries are not the type needing cooling because that would add weight and since they used carbon-fiber, they obviously want to keep weight down. So there s/b little fire risk.


    24 Sep 2013, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • "The beatings will continue until moral improves."
    24 Sep 2013, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • GT: "Morale" is the usual quote...


    But I like yours, too. The irony is infectious.
    24 Sep 2013, 02:09 PM Reply Like
  • >iindelco ... What???!!!! No picture? Does it look like a coffin with wings?
    24 Sep 2013, 02:09 PM Reply Like
  • DRich, I think this is it.



    PS Don't talk it down too much. If Axion ever takes off we can get HTL to put on an air show for us. Power Glider 1 commence take off! Battery check, parachute check!


    RBrun, Good for you!




    PS: HTL, Understand your points concerning ability to glide.
    24 Sep 2013, 02:28 PM Reply Like
  • Iindelco: I like this quote from your link. "For a Communist country, they seem to have caught on to this modern idea of making a product, commercializing it and creating jobs and wealth. Something the French and Italians forgot decades ago and an idea rapidly losing favor in America".


    24 Sep 2013, 02:46 PM Reply Like
  • HTL, We Americans just need more good government guidance and help. You know, the same help that fixed banking, health care and education.
    24 Sep 2013, 03:53 PM Reply Like
  • I assume that "same help that fixed banking, health care and education" refers to the "fixes" administered to keep the patient "hooked" on the stimulative drugs, deferring the pain and leaving the real illnesses un-fixed? :-))


    24 Sep 2013, 05:02 PM Reply Like
  • Ahhh HTL. Very good and so true.
    24 Sep 2013, 05:19 PM Reply Like
  • >iindelco & H.T.Love ... I really don't get this continued grousing. These problem aren't fixed ... I'll give you that ... but they are well on their way. More & more money is flowing to fewer & fewer people and it's getting ever cheaper for those people to keep accumulating & retaining it. It is the solution that Americans keep voting for so it must be working. All other solutions keep getting shouted down as being harmful to our favored class or unAmerican or some such nonsense.


    I just don't get what it is that is so upsetting.
    24 Sep 2013, 05:23 PM Reply Like
  • Hmmm...


    The opiate of the one percent?
    24 Sep 2013, 06:48 PM Reply Like
  • DR:
    I believe most feel, "That will be me someday and I want it to be worth being there."
    24 Sep 2013, 08:10 PM Reply Like
  • >greentongue ... I have to admit that I, too, daydream of such things, but it is a sad state of affairs when people make personal & societal decisions based on a daydream.
    25 Sep 2013, 10:33 AM Reply Like
  • ii,


    Have you noticed that risky little KNDI stock recently? I am not sure what to do with a stock that goes up in price!


    24 Sep 2013, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • >RBrun . . FWIW:
    set you sell price
    sell it when it hits
    when rinse is done
    . . if desired.


    24 Sep 2013, 07:40 PM Reply Like
  • OK, the rundown...


    Its that time of year again, Party time at New Castle this Thursday. As always, the anticipation among Axion fans must be immense, as all the good Axionistas wait patiently in the battery patch scanning the skies eagerly for any sign of the Great Pumpkin, er, "News".


    Given the big volume day today - big volume drop in price, that is - its clear that Thursday will be another red letter day for fabled Axion...


    I'm anticipating reports from the troops who can pry themselves out of the battery patch Great News watch as to the goings on at New Castle.


    Best of fortune to those making the pilgrimage. And rest assured, we who stay behind will keep a watchful eye on every square inch of curing paint and every star in the sky which might yield a hint of the occluding presence of the "Great News"!
    24 Sep 2013, 02:23 PM Reply Like
    "A panel of heavy-duty truck maker representatives will discuss what they're doing to meet greenhouse gas/fuel economy regulations for 2014 and beyond, the current and future status of alternative fuels, hybrid/electric and more at the Green Fleet Conference Oct. 2 in Phoenix."


    Should be a good showcase for ePower.
    24 Sep 2013, 02:25 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue, thanks for the post. I saw no hint of Axion or e-Power on the Green Fleet 2013 presentor or attendees lists. Found their Full conf Schedule (below) & 2 or 3 items would make it worth the trip. I found Free Downloads, under General Info. & thought the link to the Pike Research - Alternative Drive Train Markets, from the 2012 Green Fleet conf. was interesting, & included it below.


    24 Sep 2013, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  • You won't find any class 8 exhibitors at this show (I don't think). I believe this is a class 1-7 event but with some class 8 folks to share what they are doing...
    24 Sep 2013, 07:01 PM Reply Like
  • OT and fwiw:


    i'm b-aaa-ck.
    24 Sep 2013, 02:51 PM Reply Like
  • Obieephyhm, I hope your hands were so busy removing hooks they smell like fish for another week! ;-D
    24 Sep 2013, 07:21 PM Reply Like
  • 14 walleyes (and, yes, I am no longer a walleye 'virgin') . . .
    7 sunnies (plate-sized)
    3 small mouth bass
    4 crappies
    2 muskies
    and the usual assortment of perch and small rock-bass that got thrown back in . . .


    and I had an absolutely grand time with my two boys and their wives (or significant others) and my SWMBO -- even better time with my 16-month grand-daughter who finally really took to her grandpoppa.


    Except for the unusually high winds during the stay and the engine fire on the way home, it was a grand adventure that everyone who went is talking about doing again, next year.
    24 Sep 2013, 08:36 PM Reply Like
  • Obieephyhm, See, And all I mentioned were the fish. You had it "made in the shade". Sounds like you've got a whole bunch of blessings and got to take a pretty good physical count!


    Sorry to hear about the engine fire though. I guess if nobody got hurt it's just a tiny bit of contrast.


    And, and you lost your virginity! 8-O
    24 Sep 2013, 08:55 PM Reply Like
  • The engine fire was just to add a little spice to the adventure.


    Great to hear you had such a good time!


    25 Sep 2013, 08:53 AM Reply Like
  • thanks!


    engine fire was a bit more adventure than I wanted (although I got to meet a bunch of nice volunteer firefighters from two towns) and was a bit on the inexplicable side.


    Near as we can tell, the last maintenance service failed to properly lock-down the tranny fluid fill-pipe (what is it with axionistas and pipes, anyway) so on the trip up there we were losing some fluid. The vehicle sitting for 7+days allowed for some condensation to get into the fluid. Between the low tranny fluid and the water in the line, pulling the boat up the hill between Virginia and Evelith caused the condensation turned to steam and was blowing masses of tranny fluid out the fill-pipe.


    The engine got hot enough to ignite the leaked fluid but it was on the side away from the wiring so by the time I got to the side of the road, open the hood and yelled at SWMBO to call 911 then run to the boat for the fire extinguisher, the fire had burned off the excess and was just sitting there smoking (and the whole virginity thing leaps to mind).


    We had it towed in (thank the diety of your choice for AAA), checked and re-filled and everything checked out okay. I'll probably have it checked by my mechanic as well as have a little talk with him about one of his maintenance guys not getting the job done right.
    25 Sep 2013, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • Thank goodness it was more catastrophic!


    That's the memory that would stick and spoil the memory of the good parts of the trip.


    Glad you made back safely and with relatively little expense over that.


    25 Sep 2013, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • HTL, ...not more...?
    25 Sep 2013, 12:32 PM Reply Like
  • OOPS! Yep, left out one little important word there.


    No wonder my wife hasn't understood me, nor me her, in 28 years! :-((


    25 Sep 2013, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • HTL, It's an XY thingy. You and I got the defective chromosomes. Just ask her. :-))
    25 Sep 2013, 12:58 PM Reply Like
  • ii,
    Never thought of that. It explains sooo much. ;-)
    25 Sep 2013, 01:05 PM Reply Like
  • AXPX closed @ .1200, down .003 w 1,314,622 shares trading hands. While trading below .12, (new 52 wk low = .1190), at least it didn't stay there. After reviewing all the JP pipe financing info, I thought the range may be .12 to .15. Time to re-evaluate!!
    24 Sep 2013, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • Suggest you also include Konrad's Forbes piece which suggested $.05 could be coming...
    24 Sep 2013, 04:13 PM Reply Like
  • Dan, While I would think the PIPErs wouldn't necessarily want to push it below ten cents, I would think they might threaten that level and perhaps even breach it as a final shaking of the tree to gather as much fruit as possible. Maybe their last act is to scare as many away as possible and play with the houses money. It's early yet anyway but if they want under ten cents they can do it any time they so desire.


    All plans obviously adjust with sufficient news which we have not seen hide nor hair of. Plus if the market corrects we get added pleasure.
    24 Sep 2013, 04:35 PM Reply Like
  • Short interest remains nicely down at 837,170 from the prior 897,432 and 1,341,174 before that. I had suggested sometime back that they might be doing some covering buys as price dropped. Looks like they did and then stopped covering? If they expected (i.e. planned on driving price even lower), it would make sense to stop covering until they got the low prices they [expected | could cause].


    24 Sep 2013, 05:11 PM Reply Like
  • Whoever is/has done this will hit a home run both ways. They are smart that they can cover without driving the price up much. Very shrewd they are!


    I didn't think they would drive the price down below .10, but every time they get new shares...volume soars...price colapses. Watch out for the next week or so.