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  • growsmart
    , contributor
    Comments (158) | Send Message
     
    winner
    11 Dec 2013, 09:24 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4605) | Send Message
     
    ...
    11 Dec 2013, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (781) | Send Message
     
    Another wonderful day!
    11 Dec 2013, 09:45 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (781) | Send Message
     
    Two weeks until Christmas! I wonder if TG will be Santa Claus or TG "The Grinch" who stole our significant presents for Christmas!

     

    ;-))
    11 Dec 2013, 09:51 AM Reply Like
  • negoslavbg
    , contributor
    Comments (19) | Send Message
     
    Winning trust is perhaps one of the three most important things in any business .
    People may like someone, but not to believe. You may like Tom Granville example, but not trust him .
    So , how is trust ? The starting point here is the company to understand the sequence of events . It should not trust people before they trust her . This is not a philosophical question which came first - the chicken or the egg . It is about a specific order: first you show confidence in others to forge , and then they believe you. If you wait days , in which first they will trust you - it will not happen !
    One example : Amazon has a very good policy to create trust among customers. It follows the following rule: I suggest you buy an e-book reader Kindle and it gives you a period of 7 days to return it when you get back the amount paid. Many of us can read the book for 7 days. But Amazon clearly shows that we believe will not go against the system .
    Second example : Zappos. It is a great example of creating trust in practice ! If Tony Hsieh came to me and had told me, ' Man, here's the business model of Zappos. 'll Suggest women buy shoes without them see and try , " I told him he was crazy . 'd Told him:" Do not know any woman who would buy shoes without them see and try . "However, millions of women buy shoes tens of millions of Zappos. clear why - because they trust the company . How was it built ? Very simple - Zappos offer from the Home delivery is at its expense. If you do not like your shoes return them . Again its expense. way Zappos became a company with a good reputation. She earned trust .
    The idea here again is that if you want people to trust you , first you have to trust them . So things work !
    Another important thing in the delicate process of building trust is to become ... baker . The baker is quite different fisolosofiya and way of thinking. He is the one who is not quick to eat what comes out hot from the oven. His hope antipode - the consumer lives with the attitude immediately consumed . The consumer sees freshly prepared pie and says : "I want to eat as much of that pie. It is not very big and if you have shared it with someone else, I can not eat as much of it . " Unlike the consumer, the baker sees the world as a potential opportunity to bake more and larger pies. He believes that the incoming tide carries all boats. Bakers are those in which the client always vote more confidence than consumers . Because their philosophy is " everyone to get more ."
    I strongly hope that Tom Granville will be our ... baker.
    So how is trust? Maybe a "significant orders" until the end of this year.(sorry if there are errors). :))
    11 Dec 2013, 06:34 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    Well it has been two days since I emailed Metro-Link's engineering support to ask about availability of PbC batteries to go with their EB1s power supply, which they claim can be programmed for PbC charge profile.

     

    Still no response to what should be a simple question to answer. I can envision the engineering tech who got the email thinking, "PbC? what the heck is a PbC? Hey, anyone ever heard of a PbC?"
    11 Dec 2013, 09:56 AM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (731) | Send Message
     
    and yet another NDA stops the spread of PbC known usage.
    11 Dec 2013, 10:03 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    I mean, for Pete's sake, TG! Just find a distributor and sell the damned things! People can buy them, test them for their design applications, and if they like them, they can buy more! Even the company that supposedly has already integrated PbC into its product can't get them or sell them.
    11 Dec 2013, 10:27 AM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    I think the mgnt is afraid the battery with be used for the/a wrong application and not have the correct charging system leading to a failure causing unnecessary/misplaced negative publicity.
    11 Dec 2013, 10:36 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    nogoodslacker,
    Hey, at least they have the PbC listed on their website now for use with the system.
    11 Dec 2013, 10:46 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    @LabTech, listing it on a website doesn't do anbody any good if you cannot physically buy a PbC battery.

     

    @Masi. I just don't buy that excuse that some tinkerer will blow up his application and give PbC a bad reputation. People tinker with lithium and othe new types of batteries all the time. Even the knowledge that some lithium chemistries can burst into flame did not stop Boeing from putting it in their Dreamliner. Even after the Dreamliner fires, lithium is in more demand than ever. Just get it out there and let people find applications for it.
    11 Dec 2013, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    NGS -

     

    Have you been talking to Dr. Bueil?
    11 Dec 2013, 11:31 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >nogoodslacker ... Sadly, Axion has been focused on finding applications that they could evaluate and consider having a high probability of success in market segments that would lead to good to great demand. The spectre of inappropriate application resulting in failure of that application with the blame coming to rest on the new technology battery has been something Axion actively avoids. It has irritated and frustrated me for several years but I do understand they can't afford to blemish the reputation of the device before it has had a chance of becoming adopted successfully somewhere.
    11 Dec 2013, 11:41 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    nogoodslacker,
    "@LabTech, that doesn't do anybody any good if you cannot physically buy a PbC battery."

     

    Yes, Rick, who used to post on this concentrator, ended up leaving for just that reason. He wanted to buy PbC batteries to test himself but Axion wasn't interested in that.

     

    Since Metro-Link is selling this system with a PbC battery as a back-up power system for cable companies, the fact that you haven't heard back from them might simply be that they don't do business with individuals who aren't buying their product for that application. In other words they aren't interested in selling you an individual battery when you don't have their system to use it with.
    11 Dec 2013, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    @Labtech. I think you are wrong about Multi-link. That EB1s power supply does not include any battery. The user has to supply their own battery. Multi-Link will sell you a GEL battery, but aside from that, you have to get your own.

     

    Also, my agency maintains a network of 79 remote weather stations that currently use lead acid batteries which require frequent replacement. So, conceivably, I could be a potential end user of the PbC.
    11 Dec 2013, 11:57 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >nogoodslacker ... I believe (with no factual basis) that if you were to work with Multi-Link you could get your hands on some Axion PbC's. Multi-Link would act as a distributor per application and I believe that is the model that Axion wants to work with.
    11 Dec 2013, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    I guess I can call the sales department and ask if that is true.
    11 Dec 2013, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    NGS> Vani Dantam's office number is +1 (724) 624-3300. If you send me a PM I'll give you his cell phone. The easiest way to find out whether your application is a good match for the PbC is to call Axion and ask the question directly.
    11 Dec 2013, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    nogoodslacker,
    Sorry didn't realize you could be an end user for their system.

     

    As for whether or not the EB1 is sold with a PbC battery option, please see the link below for EB1 specifications which include charge profiles for gel, AGM and PbC. So then the question becomes whether they sell the battery independently, or since it's a new option, they only sell the PbC batteries with the EB1?

     

    http://bit.ly/1dT9Ddq
    11 Dec 2013, 12:28 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    LabTech: IIRC, Rick said he'd done an NDA to get the batteries and left for reasons of disparaging remarks here?

     

    I'd go check, but it's not that important to me.

     

    HardToLove
    11 Dec 2013, 12:37 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3297) | Send Message
     
    re Rick K, fwiw HTL's version is basically what I recall as well...although IIUC disparaging remarks is not really the whole story....anyway, not rock-solid on the details, but believe he has a cabin or something out on a small island in Maine--not served by the grid.... and he wanted to use the batteries in conjunction with solar power and/or generator. I'm not sure if he had gotten so far as to have actually acquired the batteries before leaving us...
    11 Dec 2013, 01:13 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    nogo, are you really comparing Axion Power to Boeing? Boeing is a 100 Billion dollar company. They can handle some BAD publicity but Axion is a start-up company. The don't have 100 years of reputation behind them and bad press could/would end the company before it got off the ground. Reputation is everything. How much money would you spend on an order of batteries if you recall that last week some yahoo reports or blogs that the batteries he bought from xxx crapped out in one week? People remember the bad news even if it was wrong. Not the recant on page 12.
    11 Dec 2013, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • raleigh731
    , contributor
    Comments (281) | Send Message
     
    NGS...sounds like a sales lead to me!
    11 Dec 2013, 02:59 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >raleigh731 ... What was that old commercial? "I'm not only a shareholder but a customer too"
    11 Dec 2013, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    DRich ?

     

    http://bit.ly/18DsnJy
    11 Dec 2013, 03:17 PM Reply Like
  • raleigh731
    , contributor
    Comments (281) | Send Message
     
    And that one guy liked the vacuum cleaner so much, he bought the company!!!
    11 Dec 2013, 03:25 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Raleigh, Maybe we can get that guy to try a PbC battery?

     

    Err, If we could get our hands on one.
    11 Dec 2013, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    nogo, are those remote stations powered by a solar array with some type of inverter?

     

    Maybe JP can answer this question. Are the inverters or regulators for the PbC much different (due to much faster charging times) than what is required for any lead acid battery?
    11 Dec 2013, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    My question has more to do with, even if I did call Vani and he told me the PbC is good for my application, it is still not clear that I could actually buy one. I still need to follow up with Multi-Link as to whether they can actually provide the battery with the power supply.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    It is pretty clear from the specs and installation sheet that the EB1 does not include batteries. It is a module that goes into a cabinet and the batteries would get installed below it in a separate drawer. Depending on which battery type you choose, you would then program the EB1 to tell it what sort of battery is is attached to. PbC is one of the program options.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:12 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    @raleigh- Not if I have to sign an NDA to get the batteries and cannot purchase replacements through an authorized distributor.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:15 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    The control electronics for a PbC system are more complex than for a lead-acid system because the PbC has a linear voltage decline instead of staying relatively constant throughout the discharge cycle. It's not a big issue for rapid cycling power applications, but it does require more control hardware for long-duration deep-discharge cycling.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:15 PM Reply Like
  • raleigh731
    , contributor
    Comments (281) | Send Message
     
    Sounds like another sales lead!!
    11 Dec 2013, 05:22 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    NGS -

     

    To go to ii's earlier point, if the EB1 was re-programmable for other types of batteries, it would go a long way to alleviate the problem of worrying about Axion going out of business.

     

    Hopefully, each EB1 could use any of the batteries listed.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:25 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    Thanx John.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:39 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3886) | Send Message
     
    If you called Axion PbC sales today and asked whether PbCs for the MultiLink EB1 are supplied through MultiLink or directly by Axion you would have been advised that Vani Dantam handles all MultiLink questions. IF you then asked for him you would have been advised "he is out of town" this week.
    11 Dec 2013, 06:49 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    Can you imagine? Salesmen who travel?
    11 Dec 2013, 07:04 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3886) | Send Message
     
    Salesmen who travel are commonplace. Sales desks of a component OEM which cannot respond to the question of where to get that component for use with a product designed for to work with it is a different matter.
    11 Dec 2013, 07:49 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    I'm quite confident that a customer call would've been routed to Mr. Dantam regardless of where he is. Curiosity calls out of the blue merit a different response. Tom described this as a niche application. You're brewing a tempest in a teapot.
    11 Dec 2013, 07:57 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3886) | Send Message
     
    " You're brewing a tempest in a teapot. "

     

    We shall see.
    11 Dec 2013, 08:10 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    D-inv -

     

    Unless it is successful, we will not see ... b/c it will die without another mention.
    11 Dec 2013, 08:26 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    Even if it is successful the individual purchases are not likely to be big enough to require or for that matter justify a news release. It's a customer relationship, nothing more.
    11 Dec 2013, 08:40 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3886) | Send Message
     
    :-) I'd say odds are rather certain it will not succeed if prospective buyers can not find supply source for PbC batteries to populate the module with. Such marketing stupidity will most certainly garner more than one mention in more than one venue.
    11 Dec 2013, 10:07 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (731) | Send Message
     
    How long from course graduation to behind the controls on an electric train?
    11 Dec 2013, 10:06 AM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    If they build it they will come.
    11 Dec 2013, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >greentongue ... I would imagine the answer would rather depend on when a BP4 would actually be available to drive.
    11 Dec 2013, 10:14 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3886) | Send Message
     
    " I would imagine the answer would rather depend on when a BP4 would actually be available to drive. "

     

    AND when a class is actually offered. The rumor was that a class was being set up, not that one had actually started. What is the start up time for a class and when did the start up begin (if it did)?
    11 Dec 2013, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    12/10/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from blog (up later sometime).
    # Trds: 78, MinTrSz: 500, MaxTrSz: 55516, Vol: 581586, AvTrSz: 7456
    Min. Pr: 0.1133, Max Pr: 0.1168, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.1156
    # Buys, Shares: 19 171097, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.1160
    # Sells, Shares: 57 398289, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.1154
    # Unkn, Shares: 2 12200, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.1161
    Buy:Sell 1:2.33 (29.4%), DlyShts 102800 (17.68%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 25.81%

     

    The average of the lowest 20 VWAPs times 85% today is $0.0988 vs. $0.0990, $0.0994, $0.0992, $0.0987, $0.0986, $0.0986, $0.985, $0.0986 and $0.0987 on prior days. 85% of today's VWAP is $0.0982 vs. $0.0978, $0.0970, 0.0978, $0.0954, $0.0973, $0.0992, $0.1006, $0.0996 and $0.1006 on prior days. These are potential prices for the next tranche of shares to the PIPErs.

     

    It was good to see today's trade volume, in spite of the OTC trading halt from 11:15 until 12:20, recover to a reasonable range. Although I would prefer ~700K or so, today's is enough to leave me feeling OK about it. So I think we can still consider our 85% of the average of the lowest 20-day VWAPs in a 40-day window is going the right direction! The other possible price, 85% of the VWAP the day prior to share issue is a little volatile and I still can't decide if it's trying to move up, down or sideways. But it did “do right” today.

     

    Today, VWAP, trade volume, and daily short sales moved 0.42%, 70.59% and -4.37% respectively. Since volume recovered well even with the OTC trading halt I think we can view these as usually done. Overall, I think this suggests we are still likely to remain in this range, rather than dropping into the $0.10xx range for a while at least.

     

    The buy percentage dropped back into what is a more normal range for recent trading action, below all my averages. This is not our preferred range – just normal for recent behavior. Our current 10, 25, 50 and 100-day averages are 31.05%, 33.58%, 32.46% and 33.10% respectively.

     

    ARCA was totally absent today. That likely accounts for the improvement in the VWAP even though volume improved. However, that did not eliminate the late-day weakness, just delayed the start, based on what is seen in the trading breakdown.

     

    I'll post a link to the blog whenever I get it updated.

     

    HardToLove
    11 Dec 2013, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Blog is updated now.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    11 Dec 2013, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Article on LNG and rail developments.

     

    LNG: fuel of the future?

     

    http://bit.ly/1fk4Krh
    11 Dec 2013, 11:25 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... I still think it will wind up with the same results that doomed this idea 20 years ago. There is a lot in the negative column but, like fuelcells in transportation applications, will catch on quickly as soon as there is not a drop of liquid petroleum/biofuel diesel to be had. Until then conservation technologies should be the market leaders.
    11 Dec 2013, 11:50 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    DRich, I hope you are right. My fear, and it's a big one for me, is that like the Corvus battery it's probably a distraction for NSC on the NS 999 program. We need action and delays are down right painful when you are giving bullets (cheap shares) to hoodlums (PIPErs).

     

    The top level savings, ignoring the many many fine points dealing with the technological challenges, do look attractive.
    11 Dec 2013, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... I am in full empathetic agreement. There are many distractions within the rail industry slowing new technology and boosting the reliance on ever more efficient diesel engines in gensets. BNSF has been investigating fuelcells since 2006 and NatGas since 1987. Battery power has been an abject failure since 1902 (thus the 4 in Norfolk's class designation) with the Green Goat as close to successful as it gets.

     

    I wouldn't sweat the Corvus (or any other Li-on chemistry). Power, not energy, is where it is at for this application. Every application of energy density has and looks to continue to be a loser both in performance & cost. That is not to say such technology will not be fielded but my expectation is high cost and meager improved performance. Just easier to understand what the battery is (not) doing.

     

    If you're really looking for a legitimate reason to wonder what the hell is the reason for delay, then I would turn your attention to Mr. Granville's statement of "working with other railroads". Who could that possibly be?

     

    There are only two other US rail entities that have battery power implemented into new technology solutions, BNSF & RJ Corman. Either one of these could be holding the BP4 back. The technologies are better demonstrated and might need more development time for head-to-head field comparison. Just a guess but something is going on and may or may not lead to acceptance. I do hope Axion is still alive by the time they tell us what they've been up to.

     

    Go ePower Engine Solutions!!!!!! .... and a few PowerCubes wouldn't hurt either.
    11 Dec 2013, 12:24 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Thanks DRich!

     

    One question though. Why would you disregard the possibility that GE is not a fly in the ointment vs BNSF and RJ Corman? They have been working on battery solutions for same time in the loco segment and others.

     

    Edit: BTW, this about sums it up. Older article from 2012

     

    "At first sight, hybrid locomotives are often an enticing option, but they are saddled with necessary and expensive electricity storage systems, and the long-term performance of these technologies under often-rigorous shunting conditions has yet to be proven. Other criteria include local operating conditions. If, for example, the location requires zero emissions, it may be necessary to opt for a battery locomotive. Often operators seek locomotives with a long fuel range and the capability to perform more than one type of duty."

     

    http://bit.ly/J6BGrG
    11 Dec 2013, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    Hybrids are really difficult to fit in a locomotive chassis because there simply isn't enough space for a genset and a battery array. NS is taking a more holistic approach of developing a battery-powered locomotive that can work as a stand alone switcher, or be mated to a couple of traditional diesel electric locomotives to create a hybrid train where the diesel and electric components ride on separate chassis but operate as an integrated whole.
    11 Dec 2013, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    While we all mull what, if anything, is going on behind the wizard's curtain at the end of the yellow brick road ...

     

    Next week JCI has its yearly:

     

    12/18/2013 Strategic Review and 2014 Outlook
    Financial analyst meeting, New York, N.Y.
    This event will be webcast
    http://bit.ly/18m9qx1

     

    Should at least be interesting.
    11 Dec 2013, 11:45 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (781) | Send Message
     
    Stefan,

     

    All we have to do is identify the tower in the background of the photo with Gibson Barbee on the 999 to figure out where the photo was taken!! ;-))
    11 Dec 2013, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    RBrun, The picture is very old. Back when they first found pictures of bear, antelope and some form of battery operated locomotive depicted on cave walls. It was a period between the bronze age and the lithium age. Toward the latter because it was long after the period when program managers had brass balls and would run with something.
    11 Dec 2013, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: "brass balls ... and would run with something".

     

    That something being lots of clanging I presume. :-))

     

    HardToLove
    11 Dec 2013, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    They substituted for brass bells in the early days of railroading.
    11 Dec 2013, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    And it evolved to this.

     

    http://bit.ly/1fkvYOk
    11 Dec 2013, 02:02 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: LoL!

     

    HardToLove
    11 Dec 2013, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2093) | Send Message
     
    And this.
    http://bit.ly/1b8kxEJ
    15 Dec 2013, 02:54 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    You know what is also interesting about the location that NS is potentially testing the NS 999 ... the lead engineer is based in Roanoke and not in Altoona.

     

    http://linkd.in/J6rUpI

     

    Roanoke and Altoona are about 5 hours driving apart. Everything but the location of the original NS 999 chasis which never really moves points to the testing being conducted in Roanoke.
    11 Dec 2013, 12:09 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    I don't know Stefan. I love all the cloak and dagger ideas, but the fact still remains that they had the NS 999 in and out of the Altoona shop multiple times over the last year, with reports that it was being worked on. I find it hard to believe they were using valuable space at Altoona for a decoy while another engine was being retro-fitted somewhere else. Unless they got another engine that looks just like the NS 999, and changed the plates on it during the night so that it could sit in the yard as a decoy, and then moved the unmarked NS 999 to Roanoke after the retro-fit, I just don't see how else it happened. But that seems like a big stretch of the imagination if you ask me.
    11 Dec 2013, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    The NS grant application has the battery work being conducted at 209 Shenandoah Ave Roanoke City VA, New Castle and Penn State.
    11 Dec 2013, 12:45 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    I don't think it is a decoy. I just think that is where the first prototype happens to be located.

     

    If you can't tell, I am currently so bored with the Axion story it hurts.
    11 Dec 2013, 01:01 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, Your boredom is rubbing off into the current trading activity!

     

    Looks like it's going to have to move out of this trading range to get some activity. Or we'll just Rip Van Winkle until we Northerners thaw out.
    11 Dec 2013, 01:11 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >Stefan Moroney ... That is one reason for sock drawers. There are something like 6,000 other stories to follow & explore.
    11 Dec 2013, 01:48 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: I think it's because ARCA has been in almost 100% of the time and almost everyone on the bid knows if they wait they will get a late-day weakness from ARCA, and others, with a better price.

     

    Even ATDF is holding their ask relatively steady and their bid action has been slower to creep up.

     

    HardToLove
    11 Dec 2013, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (731) | Send Message
     
    So, any pictures of BP5 floating around?
    11 Dec 2013, 02:09 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the thoughts HTL.

     

    Or we're soon to test the 4 fails clause? PIPEr inflicted. Got their money back and now they take cash plus 25%. We'll see because they have a good grasp on the steering wheel.
    11 Dec 2013, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >greentongue ... If history is any guide, we've got somewhere between 15 & 80 years to wait on that event. Let's find out what is up with generation 4 first. Someday it will either roll or someone will write a post-mordem. Either way it could be quite a wait ... or not.
    11 Dec 2013, 02:16 PM Reply Like
  • Nicu Mihalache
    , contributor
    Comments (1020) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, listen here:
    http://bit.ly/IPQs5M

     

    "Moi j'ai planté coco!
    Coco ça pousse pas!"

     

    It's not only like waiting for plants to grow, but waiting and them failing, planting something else with the same result and so on. There is no free lunch, if we want to have a chance get rich with Axion, we have to suffer proportionally.

     

    Btw, the meaning of the song is not about plants, but something else that refuses to "grow" ;)
    11 Dec 2013, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    Here is a sample of the chassis that the original NS 999 was built out of:

     

    http://bit.ly/1bEx7zK

     

    1969 EMD GP38
    11 Dec 2013, 02:53 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    Stefan,
    I believe the battery testing simulator is in Roanoke, since that is also where the offices are for their testing engineers. I'm going to take more convincing to believe a battery slug has been assembled there in secret while a decoy NS 999 has been at Altoona being moved around for effect.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:09 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    What is your experience with companies that are conducting R&D projects that involve multiple generations of a device?

     

    Mine is limited but I've found that most adequately capitalized companies do not cannibalize their first generation prototype to build a second generation prototype. Instead they leave the first generation intact and build a second-generation prototype that incorporates all the lessons learned from the first generation.

     

    ePower was really torn about cannibalizing the second-generation prototype to build the third-generation. If we'd had deeper pockets it would probably be parked off to the side alongside the intact first generation tractor. I know for a fact that Axion has every prototype it ever built.

     

    Since my experience with this kind of development effort is limited, I'd love to hear what others have seen in their careers,

     

    Have your employers kept their prototypes or cannibalized them?
    11 Dec 2013, 05:30 PM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (649) | Send Message
     
    LabTech, it isn't being moved for effect. It's being moved to get it out of the way, or possibly to keep bearings true. If there is another test unit somewhere it would look nothing like 999. It would simply be an old yard unit with a traction motor in working order. Testing requires pieces, not the entire enchelada.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:35 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    Valleywood,
    All true and quite plausible. My problem is that NS and Axion have repeatedly talked about the NS 999 engine being retrofitted with PbC batteries. It's been in multiple documents and press releases by both companies. To my knowledge Axion has only shipped enough batteries to NS to retrofit one yard slug. We know that the NS 999 engine has been at Altoona getting work done on it, which at this point I hope has included the installation of the new battery racking system. So the only explanation that works for me under your scenario is that NS has retrofitted a second yard slug at Roanoke and installed the PbC batteries there. They are now running tests on it there. If those tests succeed, then NS will purchase a second set of batteries for the NS 999 engine at Altoona, so that they can roll it out with fanfare, while already knowing that it will work, unlike what happened the first time.
    12 Dec 2013, 10:10 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    Either that or they may want to keep the NS 999 for posterity as the first TEMLO prototype and repaint the working prototype when the time comes to show the world.
    12 Dec 2013, 10:17 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (781) | Send Message
     
    I am wondering if all future battery switchers will be painted the same color scheme?
    12 Dec 2013, 10:22 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    John, As you suggested before, if you have data and a gen. 1 prototype that generated the data, it would be best to leave the unit intact for any questions that might arise as you're building the next gen. unit. Cost being a consideration, of course.

     

    It's also a possibility that too much of the content of the first generation unit no longer works based on lessons learned.
    12 Dec 2013, 10:23 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    John,
    Just as long as they don't start putting letters after the numbers (i.e. NS 999-A, NS 999-B). As a science fiction fan I can tell you the system has not worked well for the Federation and their habit of rolling out new Enterprises that then get blown up or crash land on planets shortly there after. ;-)
    12 Dec 2013, 12:03 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    There's no way to tell what's really going on but I have a hard time believing that NS would take delivery of batteries for the TEMLO before they were ready to install them in a TEMLO. Since I can't buy the Keystone Cops theory of ineptitude, there has to be an alternative explanation that ties to what we know and what they've said. The NS-999-B theory fits the facts nicely and using the original as a decoy makes sense if you want to avoid prying eyes.
    12 Dec 2013, 12:09 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    Prying eyes??? Now John, I'm sure they have no reason to worry about that!! ;-)
    12 Dec 2013, 02:22 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (652) | Send Message
     
    No way NSC would be using NS 999 as a decoy. They would have to believe there was an online team of over 300 spies from all over the world looking for clues to find out what is going on. They would have to think there were inside contacts and people combing the net for any kind of picture to give a clue. That some would also be suggesting using drones to take pictures.

     

    NSC would never be that paranoid and protective of their technology. :-))
    12 Dec 2013, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (828) | Send Message
     
    When it comes to NS, I always fall back on VW's assurances, which usually goes something like, "They wouldn't be going forward if they weren't dead serious about it". VW, hope you don't mind my speaking for you. But I know sometimes you're at a real loss for words. :-)
    11 Dec 2013, 02:06 PM Reply Like
  • obieephyhm
    , contributor
    Comments (1558) | Send Message
     
    .... especially when SWMBO is reading over his shoulder . . .
    11 Dec 2013, 04:59 PM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (649) | Send Message
     
    WIO, I'm almost speechless !

     

    I have no clue if the TEMLO will be adopted. Testing is being done in Roanoke, Atlanta, and maybe Chattanooga. 999 is simply one engine designation. For all I know they're done with 999 and have started another unit.

     

    Fact is we know nothing except that NS has publicly stated we're they're partner and that we have made a joint presentation with them. NS doesn't do stuff like that unless they're serious. A number of things can be said about NS. Being cuddly is not one of them.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:45 PM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1446) | Send Message
     
    "Being cuddly is not one of them. "

     

    So NS is like when you think it's a puppy but it turns out to be a raccoon. Opposite. Got it.
    11 Dec 2013, 06:24 PM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (649) | Send Message
     
    More like a wolverine.

     

    CSX (our geographic "competitor") used to refer to NS as "The Empire". Our former Chairman, Davide Goode was referred to as Darth Vader.

     

    We referred to them as The Chicken blank Express.

     

    It was all great fun, but had grains of truth. Our true competitors were/are trucks.

     

    Back on point, NS does not encourage one to "make nice". It is without question political but it was amazing how objectivity and long hours seemed to place one in the winning party.

     

    I love it that NS calls us a "partner". That one word speaks volumes and speaks for itself, so I'll close this post and return to assembling the dollhouse for my granddaughter. SWMBO has spoken. She can be cuddly at times. Or not at others. Christmas is soon.
    11 Dec 2013, 06:55 PM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1446) | Send Message
     
    VW> Good stuff! The iron horse/wolverine. Any thoughts on current NSC or CSX management vis a vis purposes of considering investing in their stocks? I looked at CSX a while back when it was down but never bought it.

     

    Interesting the acknowledgment that the competition is trucks. It is Buffett who raved about the fuel per ton mile efficiency of rail over trucks when he announced his buying of BNSF and I chuckled when only after that did BNSF think to tout that huge efficiency advantage in their television commercials. It seemed like they hadn't grasped the import of it before but Buffett did, citing fuel efficiency as a primary reason for the buyout.

     

    Well if ePower is wildly successful we could see the efficiency differential between rail and trucks narrow. Another thought is that if ePower and hybrid locomotives are very successful the demand for diesel could drop and thus the price of diesel drop, making the hybrids less attractive. If so I hope the regulators take up the slack with some kind of low emission tax credits for the hybrids that are truly more energy efficient.
    12 Dec 2013, 06:11 PM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (649) | Send Message
     
    RA, as fuel becomes increasingly expensive, RRs will manage to remain a good investment. They pay dividends, and have a physics monopoly working for them.

     

    Advantage #1 is increasing fuel cost and advantage #2 is the Newtonian fact that the universe seems to be made of big heavy stuff that we use a lot of. Piggyback (inter-modal) traffic increases every year and rail/truck cooperation is slowly gathering steam.

     

    Two best railroads are NSC & BNSF. Buffett took BN out as a pure play. If I wanted heavy ballast (no pun intended) in my portfolio for income purposes I'd buy NSC for quality and CSX as a hedge. That way you're covered east of the Mississippi River. Then I'd buy the Canadian railroad of your choice. Buy all three and hold them for life. I bought NSC for over thirty years and it made me comfortable. Today I'd include the other two. Great companies to own. Solid safety & security.

     

    Yawn.
    13 Dec 2013, 02:23 PM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1446) | Send Message
     
    VW,

     

    Thank you. You're sure right that RRs will always fill a need and that their barrier to entry is perfect. No startups will come along and obtain thousands of miles of rights of way to go lay new track. Not gonna happen. In the world of Monopoly by Parker Brothers you've got banks, utilities, railroads and hotels and that's it! No Abercrombie & Fitch types that inevitably come and go.

     

    I imagine fuel cost tends to go right to a RR's bottom line so that if diesel prices spike that may depress earnings that rebound when prices then recede. I wonder if that creates a predictable buying opportunity -- just watching the price of diesel and waiting for a spike to hit earnings temporarily.

     

    I understand some railroads also have a big part of their business in coal freight so that if coal usage goes down for any reason it hurts them. Another factor being new pipeline competition.

     

    I did make some money on BNSF stock but unfortunately I had sold the position just a few weeks before Buffett announced the buyout at a 25% premium. Ouch!
    14 Dec 2013, 03:43 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    R.A.: With the Bakken in play, I suspect that prices won't spike until either we shut (some or more) refineries or we start exporting tons more of that produce than currently. Add in NG availability ...

     

    With long-term reduction in demand for gasoline, and I would guess some for diesel, occurring (especially if ePower and other hybrid schemes get a strong foothold), I don't know how a spike in price would occur.

     

    Long-term, the constant need for increased energy of all forms, especially in third-world and emerging markets as JP has noted many times, would certainly cause price creep though, offset somewhat by such as ePower, renewables, ...

     

    If grid storage gets a strong presence, I think that further reduces upward pressure. Some of the gains in that, combined with renewables, would bleed over to sectors such as transportation, making economic decisions favor various iterations of (P)HEVs in certain venues.

     

    Some of the technology related to that would also get exported by OECD countries to growing markets, reducing the rate of growth of oil-based energy demand somewhat.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    14 Dec 2013, 07:33 AM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1446) | Send Message
     
    HTL> Not so sure about your long term reduction in gasoline -- either U.S. or globally. Also, recall that refineries are limited and something of a bottleneck so that when one catches fire or such petrol can spike for a while despite production abundance.

     

    If I had to make a living as a trader of commodities I'd be eating ramen noodles every day. Too many moving pieces and sometimes reality proves counter intuitive or just surprises. I'll stick to stocks, which I am actually good at.

     

    Remember when oil spiked in 2007 so gasoline was above $4.00/gal for the first time? Lots of sticker shock as it hit $4.40, seeing as gas had been in not-so-distant memory at 1/4 of that for many. What happened next? 2008 --> sudden global recession and oil collapses to ~$30/bbl. I remember gasoline hitting $1.60/gal just a few months after the $4.40!

     

    Frankly I could not have predicted any of it and I won't try! I do hope diesel remains stable near $4.00 or above though because if it drops too much ePower conversions look less attractive in a hurry. But maybe Axion can get the cost of the 56 PbC's down to help truckers make the right retrofit decision. :-)

     

    BTW, I am writing a very bullish article right now on a U.S. oil & gas royalty trust which should get published here in a week or so. I'll let you know. My analysis doesn't rely on NG or oil price predictions but fortunately for this compelling opportunity it doesn't need to.
    15 Dec 2013, 12:30 AM Reply Like
  • raleigh731
    , contributor
    Comments (281) | Send Message
     
    RA,
    "If I had to make a living as a trader of commodities I'd be eating ramen noodles every day." I actually did LOL. Berrry berry funny!

     

    I look forward to reading your article!
    15 Dec 2013, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1446) | Send Message
     
    raleigh,

     

    Thanks and glad you got a smile out of that. I have a lot of respect for anyone who can pull it off! Not me. Thing about commodities is they don't generate earnings regardless of price swings so it makes them a lot tougher than stocks in my view.

     

    I'm also skeptical. Once somebody told me Jim Rogers was this great commodities guru and indeed that is his reputation. So I went and read one of his old books. Great education to read what 'gurus' wrote years ago -- much better than looking at the present. Turns out Rogers 10 years ago was bearish on gold in his book "Hot Commodities" which was some kind of best seller. But he thought gold was too high at $400/oz and cautioned readers against it.

     

    So this 'guru' completely missed the biggest boom of the last decade, and me, knowing nothing of commodities just lucked into making a killing in silver. Got my position accumulated at an average cost of $4.50/oz, my entire analysis being "Wow, this shiny, hefty stuff seems really cheap." Lol
    15 Dec 2013, 11:42 AM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1446) | Send Message
     
    raleigh,

     

    If still interested, the article is up: http://bit.ly/19hoXPA

     

    SA published it in their "Small Cap Insight" program so after 30 days the article goes behind the SA Pro paywall. Just be aware of that in the event that you decide to research and follow this Trust.
    20 Dec 2013, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • raleigh731
    , contributor
    Comments (281) | Send Message
     
    Thanks RA, Good Read.
    20 Dec 2013, 11:59 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Well, on top of our normal ills, someone is trying to fool somebody.

     

    The real close would've been the 15:56:06 5.7K @ $0.1135, -$0.0001 from yesterday's $0.1136 close. But at 15:57:48 we get a 100 share trade at $0.1145, +0.0009 up from yesterday's close.

     

    HardToLove
    11 Dec 2013, 04:10 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    Today was a rough day for the markets. That last trade put AXPW in the green for today making only 2 out of my 8 positions up for the day. I have 4 different watch lists/portfolios in different sectors and out about 48 stocks only 3 were up. Not counting my holdings. It was just a bid sea of red.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:15 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    correction

     

    out of about... and....big sea of red
    11 Dec 2013, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    New Bosch start-stop system with coasting mode can reduce fuel consumption by up to another 10%

     

    http://bit.ly/19CKjky
    11 Dec 2013, 04:12 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    ii - good article until it reached the part about the compact lithium ion battery.

     

    On another note, still trying to get the Axion grant application which is supposed to name the system integrator that Axion generically stated it was working with a couple quarters ago (must be noted that Axion doesn't mention a systems integrator anymore). Axion has apparently been fighting my access to the application and Office of Science is apparently allowing Axion to blackout parts of the document.
    11 Dec 2013, 04:56 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4605) | Send Message
     
    How can they black it out when it's public information and public funds ?
    11 Dec 2013, 05:11 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    Maybe an allowance for trade secrets.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:17 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, I looks like they are talking about two levels of vehicle. The first being the 12VDC system voltage only and the second being a split 12/48 VDC bus. The latter requiring far more energy at engine off because, in theory, they are electrifying far more high energy functions.

     

    BTW, Remember that Bosch is getting into the lithium ion business, AGM will not work and they don't have PbC. So, err, what would you mention in your article? ;oP

     

    Thank for the update on your FOIA request. Too bad TG doesn't work as hard getting the right information into the market for prospective clients.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:45 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3886) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/14p2qJ9

     

    "A trade secret is a formula, practice, process, design, instrument, pattern, or compilation of information which is not generally known or reasonably ascertainable, by which a business can obtain an economic advantage over competitors or customers."

     

    Too slim a thread to claim "trade secret" when the request seeks identities of parties applying for public grant.
    11 Dec 2013, 06:41 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    The DOE has a long-standing policy of giving grant applicants, particularly unsuccessful ones, a good deal of latitude in designating information as proprietary and confidential. I don't know who Axion's development partner is but they can certainly require Axion to prevent disclosures the development partner deems confidential.

     

    Stefan may not have as much luck with the most recent application as Brishwain had with the GM application a couple years back. Either way I see no reasonable basis to criticize Axion for honoring the letter of its contractual commitments, particularly if the identity of the development partner would be material news in its own right.
    11 Dec 2013, 07:11 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3886) | Send Message
     
    No reason to criticize Axion perhaps, but loads of reasons to criticize DOE for refusal to identify participants in an application.
    11 Dec 2013, 07:52 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    If I was an unsuccessful grant applicant I could think of a million reasons why I wouldn't want the details of my application disclosed to anybody. My business details become public information when you give me public money. There is no public interest to be served by disclosing my business details when I ask for public money and you tell me no.
    11 Dec 2013, 08:04 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    My primary purpose is confirmation of Axion's public statements. As most of you can tell by now, just b/c TG says so is not good enough.
    11 Dec 2013, 08:32 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    I would never own stock in a company where I had that kind of seething festering doubt in the competence or honesty of management. NEVER!
    11 Dec 2013, 08:45 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    Understand your position John. But to have ridden this elevator to the bottom and sell if I still have some belief in the product and an eventual bounce back is also imprudent, imo.

     

    As stated, I am holding my option and have doubled down on my position so I can hopefully benefit in the event that we are right.

     

    At the same time, I will not disregard Edison's wise words and the red flags that we have seen here. The bottom line is that we are down to 1/6 or 1/7 of the price when I found Axion with multiple statements about this or that that have either failed to materialize or proven untrue, and day after day more shares of stock being printed. My position is not unreasonable.

     

    Quite frankly, I am sick of my incessant bashing and would like a reason to rah, rah for a change.
    11 Dec 2013, 09:11 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (781) | Send Message
     
    Stefan,

     

    I understand completely with your frustration! I currently I own stock in a few companies where the stories continue to unfold slowly and the CEO's continue doing their job selling the story of the future success of the company. Unfortunately, sometime their time lines and my expectations just do not line up. When a CEO gives a date in time informing us that we should expect something to happen but then nothing does we should be very suspect, especially when it happens more than once and especially if a trend seems to appear!

     

    The bottom line for me is that I am still a believer in Axions story line although my opinion of our CEO is very low right now. The good news about being a critical stockholder is that I can change my opinion of TG (aka; The Grinch) immediately. When TG delivers our Christmas present of "significant orders" and starts to provide real data showing an expanding customer base I will definitely be a much happier stock holder. These events will altimately create additional interest in the story which attracts buyers to absorb a very large pile of shares thereby engaging supply and demand to do its part and allow our little $.11 stock to start to move upward.

     

    That's the main reason I am here! When this happens (and I do expect this to happen) Mr. Grandville will be "My Man"! He will be "My Hero"! I will say I had faith in him all along! Whatever!

     

    I will continue to be critical of my CEO who has me out here lacking faith and respect in him! It is his responsibility to keep my faith and belief in his abilities, right now he is failing. I certainly look forward to the day when I hold the name Thomas Grandville in high regard, unfortunately for me, today is not the day!

     

    I have my fingers crossed that we are getting closer and I am not speaking 6 months!! I have the hopes that TG will start bringing forth the news we have been speculating about and the popping of significant orders will be like a bag of popcorn in a microwave. It takes a long time until you get that first pop but once it starts it is just fun to watch and listen!

     

    I am still a believer but currently badly bruised!
    11 Dec 2013, 10:22 PM Reply Like
  • growsmart
    , contributor
    Comments (158) | Send Message
     
    Flogging this dead horse might best be done on a separate blog or in a separate article. Get it out of your system somewhere else and get on with life. This repetitive rehash has gotten well beyond boring.
    12 Dec 2013, 07:06 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    I may not like it but the reality is that Axion is holding one end of a rope and its potential customers are holding the other end. Management can push on that rope till hell freezes over but until a customer decides to pull nothing will change. There have been several instances where Axion's management expected the pulling to start more quickly, but their only error was mis-judging the likely actions of others. I'm all in favor of holding mangers accountable for their actions, but blaming them for the inaction of others is unreasonable and incredibly non-productive.
    12 Dec 2013, 08:18 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Growsmart, well said and couldn't agree more.
    12 Dec 2013, 09:21 AM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (334) | Send Message
     
    ii

     

    Good find

     

    Wonder if AXPW solution can add to the results?

     

    Beginning to think AXPW becomes simply the best battery for a wide variety of special situations - each significant in their own right - and perhaps the vehicle miracle we have dreamed off is not that important in the realm of things

     

    As a very smart person once shared with me ...the longer it takes for something to happen ...the less likely it will

     

    11 Dec 2013, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Dlmca, Axion PbC will work fine. What we don't know is the amount of energy the various automakers wish to provide for the engine off events and also the recovery times. This would dictate the size of the PbC batteries required to support both the 12 VDC and 12/48 VDC systems. The good thing is that the lithium ion option for 48 VDC still requires a LAB which is a requirement for PbC as far as we know.

     

    Unfortunately PbC is not a drop dead winner because of volume and mass. Were it not for lithium ions weakness in price and safety we'd be out in the cold. Their weaknesses are nothing to ignore though for sure.
    11 Dec 2013, 05:55 PM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (334) | Send Message
     
    ON BALLS...

     

    One colder than H new years day in Montreal - the camera switched to colorful weatherman Don McGowan. All he said was - "all you who got brass monkeys for Xmas....do not leave them outside tonight"

     

    -
    11 Dec 2013, 05:30 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Dlmca, Very good. On the wrong day or viewing market in the US he might have been out in the cold saying such things. We puritans don't like hearing such things.

     

    Now back to important matters like Paris Hilton, the Kardashians and LILO. <end snark>
    11 Dec 2013, 06:16 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    9 bucks baby! Cha ching. Hope they are not waiting on payback calculations to make a decision.

     

    Big Batteries Needed To Make Fickle Wind And Solar Power Work

     

    "Here’s the catch. Nobody really knows how the batteries can best smooth out the irregular power supply from wind and solar power.

     

    “There are many possible different uses for a battery on an electric grid,” says Todd Strauss, Senior Director for Energy Policy Planning and Analysis at PG&E. “And the question becomes, how does it get used in practice in those different ways? What are the relative costs of actually using a battery in those different ways?”

     

    Looking at the batteries looming over us, Strauss adds, “This is one attempt to try to get some sense of that.”

     

    You can think of a fully charged battery as a source of energy, ready to sell its product to the electric grid, just the way a power plant does. For that to work, battery owners would need to buy electricity to charge the battery when the price is low, and then sell that electricity back to the grid when the price is high.

     

    But that idea turns out to be a dud.

     

    “I think in the hour we did it the battery made nine dollars,” say Fribush, who manages battery storage integration at PG&E. “So we have a long way to go. We’re not even making (San Francisco’s) minimum wage with the system yet!”"

     

    http://bit.ly/19iq7YV
    11 Dec 2013, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Sekisui Chemical claims cheap, long-range lithium battery tech

     

    http://cnet.co/IQh9aA
    11 Dec 2013, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    "Maybe more importantly, the new material can bring battery production costs down to just above 30,000 yen ($290) per kilowatt-hour, a decrease of more than 60 percent from around 100,000 yen ($976) today, according to a report in Nikkei."

     

    I guess they won't be selling to Tesla, eh?
    11 Dec 2013, 07:14 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    The whole sector is littered with fairy tales, BS and lies. I guess that explains why the US govmint is enamored with lending them money. Perfect partners.
    11 Dec 2013, 07:24 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    I keep looking for areas where the PbC might offer advantages. Alas, none mentioned in this article where ultracaps appear to win with batteries hands down. Maybe if we shape it like an anchor? <ES>

     

    Product How-to: Extending battery life in transportation and mobile applications with supercapacitors

     

    http://bit.ly/IQiQF4
    11 Dec 2013, 07:04 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Here is a presentation w/ lots of data on the auto industry w/ timing for scaling on some of the SS and 48Vdc stuff we're watching. Not all generic as it's vendor tailored but there is good info. to be mined.

     

    Sorry if I posted this before as I've found info. from this company in the past that I know I've shared.

     

    http://bit.ly/1f8Cnvs
    11 Dec 2013, 09:33 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    The micro-hybrid market slide on page 14 has the highest numbers I've seen and it's great to have an inside perspective on the likely uptake rate for 48vdc systems. When you read discussions of 48vdc as the next big thing it's easy to assume rapid sweeping change as opposed to the modest incremental change forecast by Infineon. Giving up a 10% share of a 47 million unit 2019 market is nowhere near as worrisome as a larger share might have been.
    12 Dec 2013, 09:12 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Since these guys supply products that permeate the industry, especially in Europe, across all the manufacturers so you know their numbers are good. Their current contracts have them seeing clearly at least 3 to 4 years out and their advanced development people have a clear vision for well in excess of a decade. Their numbers are going to be far better than what you'd see from the research firms that are looking in through stained glass windows.

     

    Of course there are risks in market acceptance and macroeconomic trends.
    12 Dec 2013, 09:34 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    Sometimes the best one can hope for is a murky crystal ball, but even murky crystal is better than a dartboard.
    12 Dec 2013, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    What does LV Bat and MV Bat on slide 15 or HV Bat on slide 17 mean?

     

    Interesting price points for various systems on slide 17 too.

     

    Should be interesting to compare JCI's numbers next week to these ...
    12 Dec 2013, 09:58 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Low, medium and high voltage. Low is 12VDC, medium up to 60 VDC which is the safe limit, human, for conventional wiring practices, and high is above 60 VDC
    12 Dec 2013, 10:11 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, ii.
    12 Dec 2013, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • VictorG45
    , contributor
    Comments (40) | Send Message
     
    If I am reading the slide on page 14 correctly, then large scale production of 48V SS will start about 2016 and will have about a %10 market penetration by 2020. This seems very conservative but does seem to correlate with the BMW time frame.
    12 Dec 2013, 11:15 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2476) | Send Message
     
    And slide 18 is the first time I recall seeing an estimate that 48v's would be 60% MORE expensive than plug-ins on a cost/CO2 saved basis.
    12 Dec 2013, 11:28 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    ii -

     

    On slide 17 of the presentation, at the bottom of the slide are various price points for systems to end consumers. Do you think this includes an AGM battery or any battery at all?

     

    I would be very interested to see this type of price to end consumer chart populated with PbC information as compared against an AGM version and a lithium ion version.
    12 Dec 2013, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, I believe these cost targets are additional costs above a standard ICE vehicle in the same performance category. So the battery would be enhanced flooded cost minus flooded cost as an example. Then you'd have the costs of things like the beefed up starter etc.

     

    You need to remember that what automotive is going to pay for millions of unit contracts is not what you will see for pricing at the auto parts store when you go buy a replacement. This is why I cautioned when people were thinking of taking rough NSC first order numbers and applying them to some form of future earnings forecasts in automotive should Axion get contracts. Ain't gonna happen. No, nein, nyet!

     

    A wiper motor for your car is about 11 USD full factory cost. Go look up the price on line for the replacement part. This is unless you have some exotic low volume thing.

     

    I said it before. BMW has looked at Axion's process and they know what it's worth with automotive margins. They will world price the components and add/subtract labor/investment to come up with the price at different levels of penetration in the various markets where they would look for supply. They know better than Axion what the cost would be when scaled.
    12 Dec 2013, 01:28 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Victor, That seems to support GM's thoughts that most people will not accept efficiency options unless the payback is within a year. The 48 VDC hybrid will be in the more expensive vehicle category. Once you move up in voltage like this the costs go up quite a bit in the areas of storage, switching, conversion etc. And you still need 12 VDC because you can't make the whole vehicle 48 VDC because then you're talking real money and also durability risks. The current stuff is paid for and pretty bullet proof.
    12 Dec 2013, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    ii - I agree, but I am not considering the chart for what potential revenues would be to Axion. Rather as a baseline for comparison as to where PbC would fit in a pricing scheme with other alternatives

     

    For example it would appear that the end consumer price for the baseline ford start stop system is $295 (presumably with AGM) I would be curious to know how a fully scaled PbC or li-ion alternative would adjust the end consumer price for the entire system.

     

    For example -

     

    - 295 with AGM
    - 450 with PbC
    - 750 with Li-ion
    12 Dec 2013, 01:43 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, Understood. I just can't help too much with your enlightenment!

     

    If I was to guess it would be closer to 320-340 USD if AGM was where you have placed it. This fully scaled and more mature in the MFG process. In my example I am ignoring any additional cost for electronics due to PbC capacitive discharge profile should it be required.
    12 Dec 2013, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    Where I got my ford numbers:

     

    http://bit.ly/1du5Y18
    12 Dec 2013, 02:17 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, Yes, I remember the article. I was just doing a very gross differential off your number. This, IMO, is what BMW will do. They will start with mature AGM and add subtract costs based on the stock list and process flow for the PbC. This is what I would do and I've done a bunch. It should be understood that this would need to be done at different penetration levels based on roll out plans and with any partners unique infrastructure considered. They are very very detailed and Axion would have their say minus details of input proprietary to partner inputs.

     

    I'm sure this has been done at different times and since BMW is still around at some level that's a good sign. No guarantee but as John points out being in the game at this level say a lot. A whole lot.
    12 Dec 2013, 02:28 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    12/11/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from blog (up now)
    # Trds: 63, MinTrSz: 100, MaxTrSz: 44000, Vol: 492966, AvTrSz: 7825
    Min. Pr: 0.1130, Max Pr: 0.1159, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.1139
    # Buys, Shares: 15 122450, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.1146
    # Sells, Shares: 48 370516, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.1136
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:3.03 (24.8% "buys"), DlyShts 108250 (21.96%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 29.22%

     

    Very few signs of possible improvement are present today. In fact, there's a lot of things suggesting we'll have difficulty staying in this low $0.11xx range.

     

    The average of the lowest 20 VWAPs times 85% today is $0.0984 vs. $0.0988, $0.0990, $0.0994, $0.0992, $0.0987, $0.0986, $0.0986, $0.985 and $0.0986 on prior days. 85% of today's VWAP is $0.0968 vs. $0.0982, $0.0978, $0.0970, 0.0978, $0.0954, $0.0973, $0.0992, $0.1006 and $0.0996 on prior days. These are potential prices for the next tranche of shares to the PIPErs.

     

    Volume remained OK today, but I would've preferred a bit more. Unfortunately I believe now we are heading to slowly(?) reducing volume and daily short sales. ISTR mentioning the other day that I expected low daily short sales volume and percentage for Tuesday, but I can't find it now. Anyway, that's what I was expecting and we got it, although the percentage wasn't as low as I expected because the trade volume dropped even more, and today should have continued the trend, which it did. If you want to see why I expected this, check the chart for volume and daily short sales and note the orange trend lines. We got the big bump I called for, that coincidentally moved almost all the way to the upper line, and the normal next move if we aren't starting some price run up would be to start a re-trace down. On the chart you'll note we came back under the short-term descending line.

     

    Although normal for recent behavior, I'm afraid that this might signal the start of our price range moving to the $0.10xx range, which I expected much sooner. By itself the short sales wouldn't be enough to make me worry about this, but I'll note some other possible indicators as we go through the stuff below.

     

    Today, VWAP, trade volume, and daily short sales moved -1.47%, -15.24% and 5.30% respectively. The trade volume alone doesn't worry me so much – it's still in a reasonable range. But we had a compressed price range today (2.57%) even when the spread between bid and ask wasn't all that large most of the day. After market open the lowest bid I saw was $0.113 and the highest offer was $0.1159. With this narrow a spread I would have expected a little better volume. Moreover we had long periods where the spread was less than 2/10ths of penny, and other long periods of 5/100ths, and there was little movement and trading, as can be seen by the intra-day trading breakdowns.

     

    Heh, maybe the traders are from our (U.S.) congress – they don't know how to negotiate either.

     

    I have been (hopefully?) saying we are still likely to remain in this range, rather than dropping into the $0.10xx range for a while at least. Seeing this sort of behavior with lowering volume and daily short sales beginning to trend lower again adds a bit of weight to the bear side of the scale.

     

    And there's more ...

     

    In the blog here.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 07:28 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    When you have a large section of society that is marginalized and you create economics that favor circumventing the environmental policies you wish to support you better have adequate enforcement. Adequate and not corrupt.

     

    Makes you want to run right out and import Chinese seafood which BTW is not inspected.

     

    China-Poor lead battery recycling raises fears

     

    http://bit.ly/1bYMAwq
    12 Dec 2013, 08:33 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    It's good to see that China has recognized the problem and is acting decisively to resolve it. Good recycling practices are a hallmark of the lead-acid battery industry but shoddy practices are a travesty.
    12 Dec 2013, 08:48 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    The first step in resolving a problem is recognizing you have one? ;-)
    12 Dec 2013, 09:07 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Pre-market has a change that looks ominous today. Almost 09:00 and best bid is $0.11. usually we see, by this time, things fairly close to what we see at the open. Working back a bit at usually around 9:25 or so: $0.1136, $0.1133, $0.1122, $0.1149, $0.111, $0.116.

     

    Of course, ATDF, as always, likely NITE and CDEL will come in just before or early at the open with better bids, but with the $0.113x bids (apparently?) getting hit pretty hard yesterday, they might be exhausted.

     

    Concern: CANT has been steady-on with the 400K bid at $0.11, as has ETRF at 25K. Wil the other 283K(?) from NITE reappear if $0.11 becomes best bid? The other smaller ones? If we get an aggregate 700K+, as we had been seeing, it's likely we'll hold at least one more day of volume doesn't skyrocket, which I do not expect ATM.

     

    Regardless, if we *do* get decent volume with the usual higher "sells" percentage, $0.11 is at risk, especially if ARCA is present and active most of the day on the sell side.

     

    Since we had an apparent manipulation attempt yesterday with that 100 share "buy" at $0.1145 to keep a positive close, up 9/100ths, I think someone is looking to sell and tried to get the chart-dependent to think it was a bull day.

     

    We know it was bulls*$(! day though.

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 09:14 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    CORRECTION: The ETRF bid is 125K, not 25K.

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    09:34:29 $0.1115 x 150000 "sell". Recall last week(?) we had a similar trade that I included to get a reasonable estimate of daily short sales.

     

    I'm wondering if this one is similar?

     

    It'll skew today's b:s.

     

    Thank goodness no ARCA yet and we did see the usual improvement bids come in, not only at the top but in the lower ranges too.

     

    There's hope we hold range again today.

     

    VWAP will continue to get more and more sucky though.

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 10:27 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    John,
    I think they've been reading your articles. :-)

     

    http://bit.ly/18FPrat
    12 Dec 2013, 10:41 AM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    Exxon sure has a rosy picture of the oil industry. I disagree with part of their statement about renewable sources. They say "Nuclear power and renewable electricity sources such as wind, solar and bio-fuels will grow fastest of all, but remain a small part of the energy mix by 2040 because they will remain expensive. "

     

    The part I disagree with is the remain expensive.
    The cost of wind and especially solar continues to drop year after year. Also if Governments "impose costs" on fossil fuels and "subsidize renewable energy" as they state in the article, wouldn't those things bring prices of solar closer to parity and maybe even less than fosil for the consumer?
    12 Dec 2013, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    Masi,
    Unless they can change the materials that things like windmills are made out of, at some point the price can't come down anymore. Then it becomes more a question of how much you are going to pay for it and how much the government is going to use you tax dollars to pay for it (or in the case of the US government, how much they are going to borrow to pay for it, since we are running a deficit.)
    12 Dec 2013, 02:29 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    Masi, speaking only from my personal experiences. I purchased a 3.4kw (AC) solar electric system about 9 years ago and the total cost minus rebates was approx. 22.5K. Three years ago my neighbor was looking at solar and the best price she got on a 4.2kw (AC) system was approx. 34K. Don't know how much her rebates may have been but she did not bite. I know the price of the panels had gone down and the output from each panel went up but the installation/LABOR price was what killed the deal.
    thx
    Kent
    12 Dec 2013, 03:17 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Maxwell Technologies, SK Innovation Form Strategic Alliance for Lithium Ion Battery-Ultracapacitor Energy Storage Solutions

     

    http://bit.ly/1bA3Mp9
    12 Dec 2013, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: Sounds like a real winner. Take two very expensive technologies and combine them to do the same job, in many cases, that a lower-cost, easily-scalable on manufacturing lines around the world, requires no "climate control" or cooling systems, and has no demonstrated hazardous behavior, can do for alower cost, *unless* energy density is critical. No?

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    HTL, And that, kind sir, is my frustration. We have this in one package, which when weight/volume are not huge considerations, is highly competitive. All scalable, pretty well proven, and ready to go.

     

    Hark, I think I hear a dragon or a significant order coming. Can't quite tell which one and I'm not willing to play the odds. <end snark>
    12 Dec 2013, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... I vote ... dragon. Much as I enjoy reading about these product developments, the fact is that the applications to use them aren't to the point of adoption. This makes the pricing of not much consequence today.

     

    I could be wrong, but can you think of an application where power batteries are in use? Start/Stop comes to mind but current solutions are as cheap (and ineffective) as can be implemented with no supply contracts for more expensive solutions, to my knowledge, announced. Other transportation applications, buses & heavy equipment, aren't even to the demonstration phase. There is ePower but I believe price matters to them and Mr. Market has ever heard of them. In grid FR, mixed device solutions aren't even being demonstrated.

     

    It is nice to see that industry is waking up to idea that the need exists.
    12 Dec 2013, 11:25 AM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    ii, I was thinking almost the same thing. That concept is just what Axion's battery is. Maybe they should stress that point more aggressively as a big sale and advertising tool.
    12 Dec 2013, 12:33 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1212) | Send Message
     
    >can you think of an application where power batteries are in use?

     

    Proterra buses have been on the road since 2011 or so. Using power batteries from ALTI.
    12 Dec 2013, 04:18 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    DRich, Well we do have the Peugeot ultracap solution provided by Continental. And we had at least two Japanese companies that used Ultracaps for energy recouperation. Other than that not in automotive.

     

    I did see a report put together for Toronto Hydro that had a list of demonstration projects for grid support where ultracaps were utilized in one IIRC. It was somewhere in this report.

     

    http://bit.ly/Qc2oR8

     

    BTW, Axion was mentioned in this report. Also, there are tables where they characterize different energy storage solutions and I was somewhat dismayed that they marked the advanced LAB group as slow response time energy storage solutions. They got the same grade as conventional LABS. I think it was around PG 50. IIRC the comments on Axion were around in the PG 150's. I was happy they indicated Axion product/process was ready to go and proven. My words on the last statement reflecting my read on their words.
    12 Dec 2013, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Yes, Pgs 50 and 145 respectively in the Navigant research report for the information I referred to.
    12 Dec 2013, 12:03 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    On page 50 they show among others PbA advanced and at the bottom, ultracapacitors. Isn't our battery a combination of the two? Why isn't there a category, PbC? Also, what is a flow battery?

     

    p.s. that is a very long report and I had to keep reloading to get the page I needed. using Adobe
    12 Dec 2013, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Masi, Sorry about the length. I had some issues, as you suggest, the second time as well.

     

    I think they did a poor job in positioning the PbAdvanced category. In addition, they are too unique to lump them as they did. I guess it proves they are not well understood which has been discussed at some level on this board.

     

    Flow batteries have tanks with active material included in the battery and actually push active material through the reaction chamber as the storage unit is being cycled. My own crude wording.

     

    Here's the wiki page on the topic.

     

    http://bit.ly/18GnPSE
    12 Dec 2013, 02:19 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    ii, thnx for your reply and link. It's not your fault the file was long, I was just kind of acknowledging that fact and wondering if anyone else had the same problem getting to the pages you referenced.

     

    It also seems that the study/report was done in 2012. Is that what you have determined? I sure would like to know when the study was initiated and when it was completed. On page 8 of the ICM
    Project/Grid Solutions it shows estimates for the three years 2012 thru 2014, which leads me to believe the study could/was initiated in 2011. Maybe that is why there is no category for the PbC battery later in the report.

     

    Update to myself. Further on in the report I found a study date that IS 2011. The Navigant report is dated July 10, 2011
    12 Dec 2013, 03:03 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Well, a high point for the day: we got our first "buy", at 12:33 600 shares $0.1142, since the buy at 09:45.

     

    Buy:sell currently 1:9.23, 9.77% buys. VWAP $0.1118. All this without the help of ARCA at all.

     

    I guess daily short sales will come very low unless we get a big buying surge later on.

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 12:44 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Somebody's feeling hinky! After 1.5 hours, bumped bid +$0.0001 to $0.1122.

     

    This might open the flood gates and we'll get our first trade since 12:40!

     

    Run from the tsunami that is coming! ;-))

     

    Ask bumped from $0.1142 to $0.1143 in response, at 14:33 after 2.75 hours at that level!

     

    It's getting hot and heavy out there. Hm, maybe *their* paint finished drying?

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    There was a looong 2 hours of no trades at all.
    12 Dec 2013, 03:47 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    OK, Since it's a boring day I'll throw out a example of how efficient our good ole government is. My youngest is just about done with his BSEE. So I'm looking to close out his brokerage account and give him the balance of the funds remaining in preparation for the last push for him to be on his merry way. This has required 3 rounds of paperwork with the brokerage thus far and they just contacted me for more information because some US government agency associated with the "Patriot Act" doesn't recognize his social security number.

     

    Folks, He has lived in the same household his whole life, gone to the same school district from K-12, filed 3 years of income tax returns and had this brokerage account for twenty plus freakin' years. We got his SS number when he was born.

     

    I feel safer already if not frustrated as hell.
    12 Dec 2013, 02:49 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: Maybe it should've been named "Homeland Insecurity" since they apparently can't even track one person in the same situation of 20 years - I mean that's sort like a static object, right? If they don't recognize that ...

     

    HardToLove
    BTW, did you get out of the way of the "tsunami" - three trades. I wouldn't want you to get crushed by the weight of them when you've already been "softened up" by the crush of the gummit ppwk!
    12 Dec 2013, 02:59 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (824) | Send Message
     
    Just wait until they declare you or a family member as dead. In my case it was my grandmother who had Altzheimers when I became her guardian.

     

    When she was under the care of a different family member no taxes were filed for 6 years except for 1 year in the middle when she was owed a refund. They paid the refund but said she owed over $180k in taxes and penalties when I became her guardian. I go in to find out some details. 3 weeks later her SS check doesn't come in as she is "dead". To prove she was living I brought her into a local SS office and had her sign her name on a blank piece of paper. Ignore the fact that she didn't have to show any id so I could have brought anyone or the fact that she signed her original name not her married name.
    12 Dec 2013, 03:39 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    I had to fill out 38 pages to open a business trading account two years ago. What a Nightmare!!! I was told it was all due to the Homeland Securities Act. To weed out "terrorists" making money in the stock market and then using the money to fund bad things..... I was under the impression that "terrorists" didn't like the capitalist way, but they will invest in it?!?
    12 Dec 2013, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    MrHolty: Sounds like we could take care of a substantial part of government through economies of scale by eliminating redundancies with one omni-department: "Department Of Government Incompetency".

     

    All the non-incompetents could remain in place.

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 03:47 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2093) | Send Message
     
    HTL,
    The govt needs to study and report on this possibility and the President will need to appoint (the appropriately named) Czar of Incompetency to form the new agency. ;-)
    12 Dec 2013, 03:52 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1766) | Send Message
     
    IINDelco,
    Way OT
    I've got you one better. I was just reading the news. The Texas "justice" system just let a 16 year old guy off with probation for the drunk driving crash/death of four other people. He had been caught driving drunk before, and he had three times the legal limit in his blood at the time of the accident. The defense argued that his parents didn't raise him to know right from wrong because they were rich, and so there were no consequences that they couldn't buy their way out of, and so it's not his fault!! And the judge bought it!!! And so, as it turns out, his parents were right.
    12 Dec 2013, 03:59 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    Stilldazed: And then they will find a way to link it to the IRS, requiring ... oh wait!

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 04:22 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    LabTech: CNBC just had a piece on it - a new term coined to describe it, I forget exactly, but something along the lines Affluency Disorder or Affluency Affliction I think it was. Supposed to be a legal defense. I'm sure the defense budget allows for an appropriate "expert testimony" to lend credence.

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 04:25 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >Lab Tech ... Ah, yes. Defense witness psychologist Gary Miller says the boy grew up in a house where the parents were preoccupied with arguments that led to a divorce and that he suffered from "affluenza.". There really is no need to destroy this unfortunate youths life. The judge feels she did what she could.

     

    Never mind this 16 year old drunk killed 4 very unimportant and poorer people. It's good to be rich in Texas.

     

    http://cbsloc.al/Jc1aUQ
    12 Dec 2013, 04:30 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    Saw the piece, "Afluenza" was the term..... No, they didn't splash some money into that judges re-election fund.

     

    She (the judge) said she was concerned for the rehabilitation of the kid. I bet that was a huge kick to the gut for the 4 families who lost loved ones. Of which one family lost a mother and A CHILD!

     

    Throw her OFF the bench.
    12 Dec 2013, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    OK Guys. So I guess it is as bad out there as my personal experience might be suggesting.
    12 Dec 2013, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    LabTech, Yep, Just saw it when the wife got home and turned on the "tube". Sad and embarrassing for our society.
    12 Dec 2013, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2103) | Send Message
     
    Can't wait to watch the congressional debates about what must be the qualifications for "Czar of Incompetency." It would be weeks of entertainment! A perpetual Monty Python skit on national television.
    12 Dec 2013, 07:20 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3886) | Send Message
     
    "what must be the qualifications for "Czar of Incompetency.""

     

    :-) Elected President?
    12 Dec 2013, 09:20 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13441) | Send Message
     
    If we're going to hand car keys to 16 year olds, either treat them as adults (when they commit crimes like adults) or bump up the minimum driving age to where the two goals of society intersect.
    13 Dec 2013, 10:19 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    HTL, Yeah. He's like an oak tree on their front lawn and they can't ID what he is.
    -
    Yep, Did you see that big order move up to 11.3 USD. Why I bet someone might even spring for five or ten shares at the 11.43 ask with that kind of momentum! lol
    12 Dec 2013, 03:04 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    "big order move up to 11.3 USD"

     

    Yep. Must be getting desperate. Oops. Nope. Just ATDF trying to make a few shekels I guess.

     

    HardToLove
    12 Dec 2013, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Interesting statement by JCI on the program. No comment on SS but they are doing something with the electrical system. Maybe removing load from the engine by turning off the alternator during key acceleration times? Will research more later.

     

    "Motor Trend Car of the Year the 2014 Cadillac CTS features Johnson Controls content"

     

    "In addition, Johnson Controls supplied the vehicle's battery, which features Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) technology. Johnson Controls AGM batteries deliver more than three times the cycling durability of conventional technology batteries and will help to increase fuel efficiency in the CTS by taking electrical loads off the engine."

     

    http://bit.ly/1aZWHLk
    12 Dec 2013, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    Ways for the US government to increase the size of the energy storage market

     

    http://onforb.es/1hPDPa7
    12 Dec 2013, 05:06 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    The full DOE report is here. Now I have something to read besides space opera this evening.
    12 Dec 2013, 06:00 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13441) | Send Message
     
    John Ringo...
    13 Dec 2013, 10:20 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    12/12/2013: EOD stuff partially copied from blog (up already).
    # Trds: 55, MinTrSz: 400, MaxTrSz: 150000, Vol: 455500, AvTrSz: 8282
    Min. Pr: 0.1110, Max Pr: 0.1145, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.1120
    # Buys, Shares: 12 66000, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.1129
    # Sells, Shares: 43 389500, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.1118
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:5.90 (14.5% "buys"), DlyShts 35800 (7.86), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 9.19%

     

    The average of the lowest 20 VWAPs times 85% today is $0.0981 vs. $0.0984, $0.0988, $0.0990, $0.0994, $0.0992, $0.0987, $0.0986, $0.0986 and $0.985 on prior days. 85% of today's VWAP is $0.0952 vs. $0.0968 vs. $0.0982, $0.0978, $0.0970, 0.0978, $0.0954, $0.0973, $0.0992 and $0.1006 on prior days. These are potential prices for the next tranche of shares to the PIPErs.

     

    FYI, we had a 150K “sell” at $0.1115 at 09:34 that skewed a lot of our results today. Removing it:
    - brings volume to 303.6K (even worse than what we got);
    - moves buy percentage to 21.74% (still nasty, but near the descending trend line and above our 10, 25, 50 and 100-day averages of 0.1998, 0.1848, 0.2055 and 0.1794 respectively);
    - puts daily short percentage to 11.79% (still too low);
    - moves VWAP to $0.1122, -1.48% from yesterday's $0.1139.

     

    Regardless, my assessments would likely be unchanged and I will use the unadjusted numbers.

     

    Yesterday I said “Very few signs of possible improvement are present today. In fact, there's a lot of things suggesting we'll have difficulty staying in this low $0.11xx range”. We're still there, but it's turning into a skin of the teeth situation I think.

     

    The bearish things from yesterday generally strengthened today.

     

    Among other things early in yesterday's post I had “... believe now we are heading to slowly(?) reducing volume and daily short sales ... and the normal next move if we aren't starting some price run up would be to start a re-trace down [of daily short sales]. On the chart you'll note we came back under the short-term descending line”.

     

    Trade and daily short sales, respectively came in at -7.60% and -66.93%.

     

    ... The low daily short percentage is killer from my POV. Check the charts and note that a price deterioration seems to begin when we get one of these extremely low percentages.

     

    Our low and high deteriorated, -1.77% and -1.21% respectively. ...

     

    The full intra-day statistics and commentary is in the blog here.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    13 Dec 2013, 06:53 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29445) | Send Message
     
    Cramer did a fabulous 6 minute monologue on unconditionally loved stocks this morning. It's a must watch.

     

    http://cnb.cx/1fpOchG
    13 Dec 2013, 07:47 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    You gotta love this guy John. He is a lot of fun to watch, not always the best advice, but fun!
    13 Dec 2013, 10:16 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Ford to make start-stop technology available on 70% of its N. America lineup by 2017

     

    "Dynamic cruise control. Looking to the future of the Blueprint for Sustainability, Ford is also researching dynamic cruise control. The advanced system enhances real-world fuel economy performance through optimized torque control, which minimizes fuel consumption while maximizing powertrain efficiencies.

     

    Dynamic cruise control modifies the driver-selected set speed in response to not only current road conditions, but also to predicted road conditions—all onboard and in real time, with no Internet connection or stored databases. Ford research shows this feature could improve fuel efficiency by up to 10%, depending on route."

     

    http://bit.ly/1crLd4e
    13 Dec 2013, 08:46 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2483) | Send Message
     
    "Ford has years of experience with Auto Start-Stop via its electrified powertrain hybrid and plug-in hybrid offerings, and the feature is popular on a host of Ford models in Europe. By year-end, Ford expects to sell more than 500,000 vehicles equipped with Auto Start-Stop globally. In the United States, Auto Start-Stop is already available on the non-hybrid 2014 Ford Fusion with 1.5-liter EcoBoost."

     

    Have we heard any complaints about Ford's battery solution or only BMW's?
    13 Dec 2013, 09:45 AM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2768) | Send Message
     
    Ford Owners Club Forum.
    I did a search for stop start. this was the result.
    http://bit.ly/1dbZzas
    13 Dec 2013, 06:11 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Another "Ground Hog Day" of trading.

     

    Actually that would be better because we'd be closer to spring. Something to look forward to. PIPErs gone, 5-10 ePower trucks on the road, waiting for our significant sale and people talking about the next capital raise! Oh, And the Green Weenie watch in full swing. ;-P
    13 Dec 2013, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13441) | Send Message
     
    PIPErs will be sitting on warrants, and there will be some discussion about those...

     

    ePower is the hope for 2014, imo...

     

    "Significant" is now the most-parsed term in the Axionista lexicon...

     

    Next round of funding will indeed become the next big topic likely to extend the share price at low levels, UNLESS news surprises to the upside.
    13 Dec 2013, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... March 2014 is looking more & more like an interesting month.
    13 Dec 2013, 09:54 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    DRich, I agree. I think until then it's going to be mostly filled with updates from John on the ePower integration. Maybe strong winds in PA make the trees bend changing the point of reference in a still shot leading to moving 999 speculation?
    13 Dec 2013, 09:59 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4421) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... I think if we could get a high enough resolution photo of the NS999 we'd find the wheels have been welded to the storage tracks. Maybe an electrical short?
    13 Dec 2013, 10:07 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Thanks DRich, I was just going to start researching the possibility of high mass long interface duration high carbon steel adhesion principles. Adsesion? Resistance welding I well understand and does seems a possibility given the first generation battery of choice along with the method of integration.
    -
    Odyssey-a long wandering and eventful journey

     

    So much for truth in advertising!
    13 Dec 2013, 10:23 AM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13441) | Send Message
     
    Could be. The attempts to link the megaton DCD (dust collection device) to the experimental JGE ("John Galt Engine" powered by static electricity) could well have generated an air gap short circuit to the rails... Of course, had they made the rails from Reardon Metal, perhaps the problem could have been avoided.
    13 Dec 2013, 10:29 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17254) | Send Message
     
    AFK (Away From Keyboard) 'till ~13:45

     

    HardToLove
    13 Dec 2013, 10:11 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Hello Vani. You there?

     

    What's so super about nickel supercapacitors?

     

    "One relatively new form of energy storage – the nickel carbon supercapacitor – is finding favour in a wide variety of applications, especially where high levels of power are needed quickly and repeatedly. These include engine-starting in large vehicle applications."

     

    http://bit.ly/18J1SCu
    13 Dec 2013, 11:55 AM Reply Like
  • Mac325
    , contributor
    Comments (19) | Send Message
     
    New press release with some clues about the Caribbean project.

     

    Edit with updated URL:

     

    http://bit.ly/IU3peW
    13 Dec 2013, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Mac325, Your link didn't post properly. Can you please try again. Thanks!!
    13 Dec 2013, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1415) | Send Message
     
    Axion's hands are tied and this is the only way to spread the news that they are selling in Jamaica. What a ridiculous situation for the company to be in…yet,…yet..it is news and good news.
    13 Dec 2013, 12:44 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2476) | Send Message
     
    iinde--it's a blog post on Axion's website:

     

    http://bit.ly/1dxkN3h

     

    Who knows what to make of this post? Is it filler until we get significant PC sales? A tip-off that they're expecting something with Jamaica like thotdoc commented? No big surprise to Axionistas that they seem to be trying to do something in the Carribean islands. My guess is Axion doesn't do something like this piece if a sale announcement is expected very soon---just wait a little while instead. Looks like they're trying a little harder w/ the website, although does "What do you think?" lead to anything? It implies a Comments functionality, but I don't see one.
    13 Dec 2013, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Mac325 and Mr. I thanks.
    13 Dec 2013, 12:55 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    It leads to you entering your e-mail address.
    13 Dec 2013, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8764) | Send Message
     
    Masi, Wasn't a requirement for me. Went straight to the article.
    13 Dec 2013, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (422) | Send Message
     
    Sorry ii, I was answering the question Mr I asked at the end of his post. ( "What do you think?" lead to anything?) I should have addressed him in my answer.

     

    At the bottom of Axion's press release it asks "What do you think?" I clicked on it and it leads you to "enter your e-mail".
    13 Dec 2013, 02:09 PM Reply