Seeking Alpha

Axion Power Host's  Instablog

Axion Power Host
Send Message
Inactive.
Back To Axion Power Host's Instablog HomePage »

Instablogs are blogs which are instantly set up and networked within the Seeking Alpha community. Instablog posts are not selected, edited or screened by Seeking Alpha editors, in contrast to contributors' articles.

Comments (396)
Track new comments
  • growsmart
    , contributor
    Comments (177) | Send Message
     
    Winner
    22 Mar 2014, 08:04 AM Reply Like
  • micmac1
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    second
    22 Mar 2014, 08:17 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (798) | Send Message
     
    TERCERO
    22 Mar 2014, 08:40 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1914) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/1fOEQcu

     

    Lets put large lithium batteries everywhere!

     

    In your car, in your home, backing up critical infrastructure...as a food additive in energy drinks (Tagline: "It has electrolytes!").
    22 Mar 2014, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (964) | Send Message
     
    7up used to contain lithium so you may be on to something. ;)
    22 Mar 2014, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    Given that lithium was used to relax mental patiants, I can't help but think that it is a Brave new World
    http://bit.ly/1dAtidh
    22 Mar 2014, 11:04 AM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2305) | Send Message
     
    Lithium salts were first investigated in the 19th century as a treatment for gout, but the doses needed to dissolve uric acid crystals proved toxic. In the 1870's it was used briefly to treat manic depressive illness, but fell out of favor at the turn of the century, since it could not be patented and made profitable after the FDA was created.

     

    Lithium citrate was used in 7Up and Coca-Cola until it was found to be toxic. FDA forced it to be removed from beverages in 1948.

     

    http://bit.ly/OIamDf

     

    Lithium Bromide was a sedative, not just for mental patients, but marketed to the general public in the early 20th century. Hence the expression "Take a Bromide" for what today would be "Chill out."

     

    http://bit.ly/OIal2g

     

    The chloride salt was used as a salt substitute to treat hypertension until it was discovered to actually be lethal to cardiac patients in the 1940's.

     

    Around the same time, Dr. John Cade, in Australia in 1949, was rediscovering the effectiveness of lithium salts in treating "manic-depressive illness," now termed bipolar disorder.

     

    http://bit.ly/OIal2h

     

    Lithium carbonate and the citrate are still used today as the most effective mood stabilizers in bipolar illness, and as anti-suicidal augmentation treatment in severe depression.

     

    http://bit.ly/OIal2j

     

    It can be lethal in overdose, and there is narrow "Therapeutic Range" between effective blood levels and toxic levels, so it is monitored routinely with blood levels. It has hypothyroidism and renal damage as potential long-term side effects and these are monitored with labwork regularly in bipolar patients.

     

    Despite all the nasty side effects, lithium is still a life-saving treatment for severe bipolar illness, which carries a very high risk of death by suicide and comorbid substance abuse, as well as the devastating effect of severe mental illness on the lives and families of such patients.
    22 Mar 2014, 11:33 AM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    Lithium cannot be toxic, unlike lead, every EVangelical says so.
    22 Mar 2014, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2279) | Send Message
     
    Lithium is especially not dangerous if you're ignorant.
    22 Mar 2014, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (1134) | Send Message
     
    I initially heard about therapeutic lithium from a friend who had suffered from severe depression for many years, and eventually tried the prescription medication, lithium carbonate (which IIRC, was a form that was able to be patented). He was desperate to get relief from his depression, but the nasty side effects he experienced made him stop taking it within short order.

     

    One day he was in a health food store, and noticed a bottle of lithium (50 mcg) and decided to give it a try. After taking just one capsule, he woke up the next day with his depression totally gone. This extraordinary experience occurred by taking just 1/6,000 of the dosage of the 300 mg/tablet lithium carbonate. He later discovered the LC is extremely hard for the body to absorb and use, thus the need to take such high amounts to get any effect at all for depression.

     

    In my own research, I discovered that for the longest time, researchers and scientists thought lithium’s efficacy somehow resulted from its ability to change brain chemistry. They later learned (fairly recently as I recall, and much to their surprise), that its effects were not for that reason at all. It turns out it was effective because of its ability to detoxify the brain.

     

    I later learned that people with long-term Lyme chronically experience high levels of biotoxins given off by Lyme bacteria. This almost always significantly effects brain function, leading to varying degrees (often severe) of irritability, depression, anxiety, insomnia, forgetfulness, etc. It can also lead to other types of serious neurological symptoms, including seizures. Here’s a link to an article on Tom Seaver’s experience with Lyme:

     

    http://nydn.us/1h7PNqA

     

    Many people with Lyme often take lithium (which can be bought in low doses OTC), and often report dramatic symptom relief from taking it. The most common dosage is 5 mg, usually in the lithium orotate and lithium aspartate forms.

     

    A bit of a summary: I believe many toxins in our environment today, and other biotoxins from hidden infections within our bodies (85% of people have peridontal disease) are affecting people’s brain function in many different ways. The way I believe to be one of the most important is the ability of these toxins to compromise the blood brain barrier (my friend with depression had worked around solvents for years).

     

    When the BBB is healthy and intact, it’s ability to protect the brain is almost miraculous. It’s normally so efficient, that bypassing it is often a major obstacle for pharmaceutical companies. My friend is convinced his BBB became greatly compromised, leaving him susceptible to depression. As long as he takes his extremely minimal doses of lithium, he is able to keep his depression at bay. When he followed up on my suggestion to try Liposomal Vitamin C, he immediately began to feel even better.

     

    I theorize the following regarding brain issues: Toxins of all kinds (viruses, radiation, bacteria, fungi, poisons, etc.) are pro-oxidant, and as a result, quickly use up the body’s reserves of anti-oxidants. Eventually the toxins begin to break down the BBB, and cause all kind of “mental” and/or “emotional” disorders. It’s now known lithium detoxifies the brain. Liposomal C is a powerful anti-oxidant, and can protect and sustain the brain and body in many ways. I believe it’s absolutely essential to consider both when dealing with “brain” issues of any kind. Detoxify the brain first, give it the highest quality nutrients, and then see if other interventions are necessary.

     

    For other diseases, I believe just a couple grams of Lipo C/day (equivalent to 8 grams taken orally) can help protect us from Lyme and other vector-borne diseases (which are becoming very common, but often misdiagnosed). I believe it can also ward off peridontal disease (which is often a place of localized scurvy), flus, colds, various internal infections, and much, much more. Such a simple and inexpensive supplement. Such a powerful therapy.
    22 Mar 2014, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    The danger is overblown ... once it has burned it's essentially harmless, but for any polluting contributions to Mother Earth.

     

    :-\

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2014, 06:09 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    Thanks WiO, good information.
    Gonna tell some family membors.
    22 Mar 2014, 06:32 PM Reply Like
  • tonys23
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    This last post by WIO might be worth more to us than AXPW soaring to a buck or two. Thanks!
    23 Mar 2014, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (321) | Send Message
     
    agree with tony23,

     

    Many thanks for sharing your experiences WIO.

     

    geopark
    23 Mar 2014, 11:04 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    03/21/2014: EOD stuff partially copied from blog (up now).
    # Trds: 58, MinTrSz: 300, MaxTrSz: 37000, Vol: 338960, AvTrSz: 5844
    Min. Pr: 0.1650, Max Pr: 0.1750, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.1704
    # Buys, Shares: 27 150670, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.1717
    # Sells, Shares: 30 185390, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.1692
    # Unkn, Shares: 1 2900, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.1730
    Buy:Sell 1:1.23 (44.45% "buys"), DlyShts 82000 (24.19%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 44.23%

     

    The average of the lowest 20 VWAPs times 80% today is $0.0773 vs. $0.0769, $0.0767, $0.0766, $0.0766, $0.0765, $0.0764, $0.0764, $0.0764 and $0.0764 on prior days. 80% of today's VWAP is $0.1363 vs. $0.1339, $0.1354, $0.1376, $0.1361, $0.1284, $0.1285, $0.1250, $0.1439 and $0.1600 on prior days. These are potential prices for the next tranche of shares to the PIPErs.

     

    Today's low, high, VWAP, trade volume, and daily short sales moved 1.79%, 2.94%, 1.78%, -6.08% and -67.85% respectively. Price spread today was 6.06% vs. 4.87%, 12.84%, 10.43%, 11.05%, 6.33%, 16.67%, 8.34%, 44.19% and 46.60% on prior days.

     

    The daily short sales percentage did just what it should as the buy percentage dropped from the 70% range to 44.45% today, within what should be a normal range until bullishness appears. Daily short percentage moved from 70.67% to 24.19%. I'm gaining confidence that the PIPErs are out as John has been predicting and that we are transitioning ...

     

    The low, high, close, VWAP, and volume continue looking like short-term consolidation ...

     

    The oscillators continue on track for consolidation ... Momentum is continuing to tire and has gone from ~1.76 on 3/17 to ~1.28 today.

     

    ... I wondered if some accumulation to satisfy an order might have been occurring and surmised that if so we should see things revert to more normal configuration. Today's buy percentage and daily short percentage, along with continued low volume makes me think we got that one right ...

     

    The [inflection point calculations] newer version's chart pattern on the newer experimental chart shows the five and ten-day periods now weakening while the other periods are beginning to flop around a bit. I think this is typical of the strength up being almost totally dissipated and no decisive direction yet detectable.

     

    The usual is in the blog here.
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2014, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    Number lucky 7!!!!
    22 Mar 2014, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    JP "Companies have been trying to build a bipolar lead-acid battery for a very long time and they invariably end up in bankruptcy.... Atraverda was just the most recent in a long line of casualties."

     

    Could that be that is because they have not used a Carbon based Negative electrode?
    22 Mar 2014, 11:08 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    Bipolar battery designs are simple in theory but present a huge variety of manufacturing challenges. If somebody figures out how to build a cost effective bi-polar battery it might make sense to find out whether a carbon negative electrode would improve performance. Until somebody resolves the manufacturing challenges, however, the potential impact of replacing lead electrodes with carbon electrodes isn't even interesting.

     

    The first step is always finding a cost effective way to make the device you want. Once you've completed the first step there's plenty of time for the second step of finding cost effective ways to make your device better.
    22 Mar 2014, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    I wonder if they have tried this technique to make the battery smaller:???
    http://bit.ly/1dlHmwK
    22 Mar 2014, 05:52 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2814) | Send Message
     
    Maybe the Bipolar battery needs lithium salts to calm down. :0
    22 Mar 2014, 10:22 PM Reply Like
  • JT1956
    , contributor
    Comments (9) | Send Message
     
    After first denying it, Malaysia Airlines CEO now admits Flt 370 was carrying dangerous lithium ion batteries in its cargo hold.

     

    http://dailym.ai/1kSKmjE
    22 Mar 2014, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (292) | Send Message
     
    With my car and with driving an average amount of miles per year, a stop/start system that were to be capable of improving mileage by 15%, I would save almost $700 per year. That would be 7 fewer visits to the gas station per year.

     

    So, at a wholesale price of around $200 for the PbC, just the battery would be paid for in about 4 months. If a complete add on cost for gen 2 S/S were to be $1,500 on a new vehicle, and a gas mileage improvement of 20% were to be gained, the whole S/S system would pay for itself in 2 years and a few months. There are not many items in life that will pay for themselves in that short an amount of time.
    22 Mar 2014, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (2019) | Send Message
     
    Agreed, it's an amazing deal as a consumer. Even if I wasn't an Axion shareholder, my next car purchase would likely be a car with such a system. I preferred a full hybrid but those have much longer payback periods with associated battery lifetime costs, so it wasn't a no-brainer. A micro or mild hybrid is.
    22 Mar 2014, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (3469) | Send Message
     
    At those economic assumptions it looks great. But what about systems that costs $2000 and require multiple batteries and still only saves 10% fuel in the real world. Assuming most modern cars should get closer to 25-30mpg and many users will use less than 500 gallons a year - payoff isn't always so quick. However at $200 a PbC it seems like a contender but remember systems like the KIA are using multiple batteries.
    22 Mar 2014, 02:19 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3104) | Send Message
     
    There are tougher and tougher emission/mileage rules already written into law in Europe and the US, if not almost everywhere else. So the need to improve is not an option for the world's vehicle makers, but a requirement. Any ROI benefits to the customer are just an added bonus.

     

    The Q for the vehicle makers is which improvements to implement---what combo of deisel, hybrid, lighter weight materials, aerodynamics, etc., and when. Not if.
    22 Mar 2014, 02:33 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    Fuel is somewhere around 4 times as costly as in the USA, so pay back would be quicker...well until the governments start to figure out that they are losing tax revenue do to increased economy.
    22 Mar 2014, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Ecomagination.

     

    Tier 4 Locomotive Achieves Stringent Emission Standards

     

    http://invent.ge/1dASQXy
    22 Mar 2014, 01:38 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3104) | Send Message
     
    And the cost is......unimaginably high, I suppose. At least compared to a rebuild, ala NS' SD60e program. AltoonaWorks said those only need to meet Tier 0, although NS is voluntarily meeting Tier 2 w/ them. Prob hard to beat the economics of that, and the program continues into, IIRC, either 2017 or 2019.

     

    I'm no RR expert to say the least, but NS clearly does not yet need the PbC to meet the 1/1/2015 changes. There's only 9 months left, no tangible evidence of a working 999 prototype, much less the OTR, big lead times and costs involved, etc., etc. etc. I've always wished we had a much better handle on NS' PbC plans, but the truth is we still don't. I'm still hopeful for large future orders, but that one remains, even after all this time, a big unknown, especially as to how much and when.
    22 Mar 2014, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    "I'm no RR expert to say the least, but NS clearly does not yet need the PbC to meet the 1/1/2015 changes. There's only 9 months left."

     

    With only 9 months left that's a given for sure. I'm w/ others that think there is a pretty good probability NSC has changed their focus to the OTR application. Maybe the yard slug only validates some level of the design? Then again they could do almost all of this w/ just the simulator.

     

    Anyway, with all the testing they are doing just one more large order would say much more than it would have if we got it a year ago. But when? For legacy shareholders of Axion timing is of the essence. Longer term Axion holders are already feeling like they have "Kick Me" tattoos on their back sides. The next capital raise will make that phrase seem like a walk in the park w/o cold hard progress SOON.
    22 Mar 2014, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (2019) | Send Message
     
    I never really understand how attractive the NS-999 is as a yard switcher. Why do you really need an electric one for that application? It's nice, but is it really compelling to build a fleet of them? IMO, the OTR train is really what NSC is aiming for.
    22 Mar 2014, 02:58 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3104) | Send Message
     
    Man, NS is just a bundle of who the heck knows. Testing other's batteries (Corvus) again, testing a nat gas loco again, are they still testing PbC for yard and OTR, or is that done?, saying they're gonna have the 999 out there by 3 months ago and no sighting (to me, another embarrassment, although much much smaller than the original 999 disaster---heck, who even really noticed besides us?), wording in their elec loco reports of heat concerns---are those adequately addressed yet or not?, etc.

     

    Thank goodness Axion has additional mkts they're pursuing. I wouldn't have invested if they didn't. Still thinking they'll win some, lose some, and some prospects won't ever get off the fence while any of us are still alive. Averill didn't even want to pursue RRs, per an Axionista at the AGM a couple yrs ago. One of the most valuable phrases here was first mentioned by I think APM---"time to revenue." This is by far the slowest moving investment train I've ever been on. Been a good lesson.
    22 Mar 2014, 03:16 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (659) | Send Message
     
    Ranma, a yard switcher would most likely be in a heavily populated and regulated area. Instead of having a yard switcher running idle 80% of the time and spreading fumes 100% of the time, it makes a lot of sense to use an electric yard switcher.
    22 Mar 2014, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (292) | Send Message
     
    Mr Investor -->> The returned info from the FRA FOI that someone had put in from 2011 or 2012? Had NSC saying that at that time, the most likely battery to be tested for loco units was to be the UB. I don't know if anyone has any info on that proposed likely testing situation?

     

    With the capacitor side of the UB probably having 1,000 to 1,500 farads of juice in it, and the PbC apparently having upwards of 13,000 farads as per the General Motors' grant monies request, it should prove to be an
    interesting chance for a comparison showdown between the UB and the PbC.
    22 Mar 2014, 03:47 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    393748,
    IIRC, NS published a document, and can't recall what it was, that mentioned all the different chemistries that they had tested and finally before deciding on the PbC. IIRC the UB was on that list. Maybe someone else's memory is better than mine.
    metro
    23 Mar 2014, 11:02 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Metro, I do recall PbC, Ultrabattery, lithium ion and VRLA being tested. Here's one of the Penn State thesis documents I'm sure NSC had a hand in sponsoring at some level. Abstract and full PDF file attached at the bottom.

     

    http://bit.ly/1gfaBjU
    23 Mar 2014, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (292) | Send Message
     
    metro -->> Yes, I think that you are onto something....I just opened the link that iindelco posted and I will have to go through it later. The FOI FRA doc that I have is for a grant that ran from Oct. 2010 through Dec 2011. In that grant app background section and related info section, they say that "Emerging battery technologies such as the Axion lead-carbon (PbC (tm)), East Penn's ultra battery, GE's sodium nickel chloride, or a Li-Ion system may be necessary for a commercial system."

     

    At another point in the document they write that "Finally, NS plans to to continue exploring alternative battery technologies for use in switcher and road hybrid applications. The next likely candidate for consideration is East Penn's Ultra Battery (sic) which has performed well in the individual battery testing at Penn State under Norfolk Southern's simulated switcher test cycle."

     

    At seems that portions of this entire document were written as late as early 2012. So, if and when NS may have started any EP UB testing would have to be in a later document.
    23 Mar 2014, 04:49 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Sorry if already posted. It concerns the Duke Energy 36 MW Notrees advanced LAB storage facility which is at its one year anniversary. They mention submitting a DOE report which should be out or out soon.

     

    Storage Steps Up

     

    http://bit.ly/1rdjYVG
    22 Mar 2014, 03:00 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (964) | Send Message
     
    Axion should be linking to this.
    Even if the PbC is not being used currently, at some point a buyer will ask why pay more for less?
    22 Mar 2014, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    PbC's are not that good at holding large amounts of power, but reading below sounds more like frequency regulation to me:

     

    "Gates: Yes, we’re compiling that information. But there are other benefits too. One of the key strengths of storage delivery is that it’s so much faster and more accurate. If the system frequency level moves to one side of 60 Hz or the other, ERCOT will send a signal to increase or decrease output. A conventional power plant can take several minutes to ramp to the new output level, so the grid operator has plants that are chasing the signal. By the time they reach their new dispatch level, the grid operator may actually want them doing just the opposite, as the frequency may have crossed 60Hz again in the other direction. With storage we’re not chasing the signal, because the battery can respond with full output to whatever signal they give us within less than a second."

     

    I liked the comparison to a shower, but with wind and solar it would be more like taking one when the cold water temperature was in changing with 40degree swings at random intervals.
    22 Mar 2014, 04:57 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Doe Run Celebrates 150 Years of Lead Mining and a Bright Future for Missouri Lead

     

    "Both the 12 volt and 48 volt LC Super Hybrid cars will be on display in Detroit, Mich., from March 31 to April 11, 2014. More information about the LC Super Hybrid is available online."

     

    http://bit.ly/1dBdHtX
    22 Mar 2014, 03:40 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    I have a puzzlement that I'd like some help with.

     

    On Cosmos last week we learned that the surface of Titan has lakes of liquid hydrocarbons.

     

    Since Titan was never home to dinosaurs, jungles and millennia of ocean life, where did all its fossil fuels come from?

     

    Do any of you think Elon Musk views Titan as his one big shot to make it big in the oil and gas industry?
    22 Mar 2014, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    The dinosaurs live on Saturn, they just use Titan as an out house.
    Seriously, if he does, what do you think the IPO of his MLP would go for? And who would get the contract to install the pipeline...or would Obama make him ship it by train?
    Methane is actually one of the most abundant molecules in the universe.
    Methane Mysteries:
    http://bit.ly/1dlEpMA
    22 Mar 2014, 05:21 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2305) | Send Message
     
    John, the universe is full of hydrocarbons, including in carbonaceous chondritic meteoroid materials (http://bit.ly/1dctKU8), from which the Earth is theorized to have formed over 4 billion years ago.

     

    http://bit.ly/1hSEy73

     

    The abiogenic petroleum theory fell out of favor in the 20th century, as conventional science demonstrated that coal pockets near the earth's surface appeared to have formed from fossil plant material. But the center of the Earth, beneath the crust, still contains huge amounts of primordial carbon that originated outside the Solar System and which may be an alternate source of some of the hydrocarbon fuels we refer to as fossil fuels today.

     

    http://bit.ly/1hSEAMe
    22 Mar 2014, 05:57 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2305) | Send Message
     
    Musk may want to get to Titan first so he can establish Tesla dealership and preserve the pristine biosphere there.
    22 Mar 2014, 06:36 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    For the sake of clarity I'll confess that I haven't believed in biogenic oil and natural gas since the early 90s. The theory simply can't explain the prolific deep deposits that were our main focus.
    22 Mar 2014, 06:37 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    right john, and if all the oil we are burning was from biogenic sources then it was once in our environment and could not be causing global warming, now could it? ;-)
    22 Mar 2014, 06:54 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2814) | Send Message
     
    John
    I realized the same thing because of Titan some years ago.

     

    Russia has been saying they have been using this to plan their drilling for years. The US European response I've heard is "They are lying to us."
    "They are trying to send us on a wild goose chase."
    Also "The scientists are wrong it's not on Titan or anywhere else."
    The only rational attempt at an answer was that they "Have looked at what was coming up and there were plant parts in all of it."

     

    Here's one possible answer.
    Hydrocarbons Could Form Deep In the Earth From Methane, Not Animal Remains
    Study lends credence to abiogenic petroleum theory, which means there may be more oil in our future than we thought

     

    This seems like an OK overview but I haven't fact checked it.
    http://seekingalpha.co...
    Abiotic Oil and Gas: A Theory That Refuses To Vanish

     

    When I first started looking at this, I could only find it on conspiracy sites. I've read that everything below the crust is hydrocarbon the whole core was hydrocarbons. Which I still consider nonsense.

     

    It was the info about Titan and others, that convinced me; our ideas might not be wrong, but they were far from the only correct answer.
    22 Mar 2014, 11:01 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2305) | Send Message
     
    Oh there is definitely biogenic "natural gas" in some places, such as the Freshkills landfill on Staten Island. Take one good whiff and you have convincing empirical evidence.

     

    If a pipeline were built across the Goethels Bridge it could probably sustain the refinery farms of Elizabeth City, NJ, where St. Elon was too late to establish his holy domain against the evil petroleum empire.
    23 Mar 2014, 12:51 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1914) | Send Message
     
    Hydrogen and carbon species are relatively scarce on Earth and the other terrestrial planets. These light elements were stripped from the inner solar system and are more heavily distributed around the gas giants. Anywhere there is a large amount of hydrogen and carbon, "organic" compounds can form spontaneously. What is more interesting is that a combination of heat from the interior of Titan and compounds like methane, could be used by bacteria as a metabolic pathway. (There could be bacteria on Titan that eat the hydrocarbons.)
    23 Mar 2014, 11:51 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1914) | Send Message
     
    SMaturin: most carbon in the deep Earth is pure diamond. The difference between Titan and Earth is Earth is mostly made out of Fe, Oxygen, Silica, and Magnesium whereas Titan is composed mostly of Hydrogen. Hydrogen is extremely scarce in the solid Earth.
    23 Mar 2014, 11:56 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1165) | Send Message
     
    Methane (CH4) is a hydrocarbon that is not necessarily a fossil fuel. It is a liquid at very cold temperatures and can form lakes or oceans on come planetary systems. No dinosaurs needed.
    24 Mar 2014, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    fossil fuel... how many dinosaurs were there anyway? by my back of the napkin calculations, they must have been piled pretty high considering the oil we have already consumed...
    26 Mar 2014, 07:21 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1780) | Send Message
     
    Tim,
    Most "fossil" fuels were believed to have been formed from bacteria (think red-tide blooms, but on a much larger scale) that formed sediments on the bottom of the ocean and then were covered over by plate movements. They weren't from dinosaur bones. You actually see similar things happening in the ocean now, with the increase in atmospheric CO2 and all the fertilizer that is washed into the ocean at the bottom of the Mississippi River. Then you have shale and coal, that are believed to have come from plants. I'm not saying that there aren't other sources, as suggested above, but the term "fossil" doesn't mean bones here, but just the remnants of something that was once alive and then was buried.
    26 Mar 2014, 10:20 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13589) | Send Message
     
    That's right, LabTech. I have always viewed the term "fossil fuels" as unfortunate, in that it implies that the same processes which created oil deposits, coal, peat, and natural gas had somehow ended millions of years ago. They never stop, and are part of the natural biosphere now just as they were when the dinosaurs roamed the earth.
    27 Mar 2014, 08:10 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4825) | Send Message
     
    >JP ... I'm really surprised by your "puzzlement". Nay ... shocked. Being a "fossil fuel" has nothing to do with whether it is derived from previously living organisms.

     

    The derivation is from Latin "fodere"; to dig. Latin "Fossilis"; something obtained by digging and comes into the English language via the French word "fossile". First used in 1608 to denote a fossilized fish, found and believed to have lived, underground.

     

    This is as crazy as listening to people today trying to tell me that 16th to 19th century authors that used the work "gay" were actually trying to express a homosexual lifestyle ... not just the fact they were happy about something.

     

    How quickly we forget from whence we came. Makes me wonder what modern people understand if/when they read Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Dickens & others.
    27 Mar 2014, 06:59 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2305) | Send Message
     
    Caveat fossor! Dracones hic ignis!
    27 Mar 2014, 08:56 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    DRich: "... they read Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Dickens & others".

     

    No worry - they are unlikely to read them these days ... unless they appear on FB or TWTR.

     

    HardToLove
    28 Mar 2014, 06:53 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2279) | Send Message
     
    Chaucer is damn near unreadable anyway. A little bit is all I could take.
    28 Mar 2014, 05:17 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    Little in the world tops Thomas Aquinas when it comes to turning the brain into a pretzel.
    28 Mar 2014, 05:19 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2279) | Send Message
     
    “Amor vincit omnia”
    ― Geoffrey Chaucer
    28 Mar 2014, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2279) | Send Message
     
    yup, that'll do.
    28 Mar 2014, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • obieephyhm
    , contributor
    Comments (1595) | Send Message
     
    I enjoyed the works . . . but, then, linguistics is a hobby of mine . . .
    29 Mar 2014, 01:28 PM Reply Like
  • obieephyhm
    , contributor
    Comments (1595) | Send Message
     
    Not to argue but I'd submit that either Hegel and/or Nietzsche can give St. Tommy a run for his money in the 'convoluted' category. Not that Spinoza was an easy read....
    29 Mar 2014, 01:31 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    Da Doe Run Run Run?
    Shaun Cassidy could do a remix!
    http://bit.ly/1dlCFTr
    22 Mar 2014, 05:02 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Ford tooling up.

     

    Stop/Start Core System Engineer

     

    http://bit.ly/1f40SZm
    22 Mar 2014, 05:08 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    I can't take it seriously given:

     

    Compensation Type: SALARY
    MIN$ 0 MAX$ 0

     

    I thought I worked for nothing!!!!
    22 Mar 2014, 05:26 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    ARGE, They are just not filling in that field. Meaning that earnings will be commensurate w/ things like experience.
    22 Mar 2014, 06:08 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    Yea, I got that, if you can't tell by my post, I am in a silly mood today, maybe I need to take some lithium.
    22 Mar 2014, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    ARGE, I think lithium is more for the opposite of what you have. You require no medication. Although, if you think lithium is good for everything, err maybe you are a lithiumista? Or a bipolar Axionista? Could a person survive such internal conflicts? :-O
    22 Mar 2014, 07:01 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    I don't think a person could survive, but then again I have read Romeo and Juliet*.

     

    *OK, I just saw the movie, or was it a Man from Atlantis episodes??
    http://imdb.to/1oMhXxr
    22 Mar 2014, 07:07 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    Have you ever considered what would happen if someone made a bipolar lithium battery?

     

    Would it be chemically inert or like
    mixing matter and antimatter?

     

    Enquiring minds want to know.
    22 Mar 2014, 07:33 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    I don't remember if this was posted. Anyway, first vist to the Yadoodle board in some time and I left with more than just s%$t on my shoes. Say "Thank You" OMY. Of coarse she probably got it here and I missed it the first time! :(

     

    Public-Domain Test Date Showing Key Benefits and Applications of the Ultrabattery

     

    http://bit.ly/1kThqrP
    22 Mar 2014, 05:29 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1780) | Send Message
     
    IINDelco,
    I think someone posted that here last week. I'm pretty sure it's in my Axion folder at work. Now whether that person got it from OMY before you, I have no idea.
    22 Mar 2014, 10:06 PM Reply Like
  • pascquale
    , contributor
    Comments (125) | Send Message
     
    I think Metro N posted it. I was surprised no one commented on it then (last concentrator?)
    22 Mar 2014, 11:20 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (3469) | Send Message
     
    Does sound like Ultra "could" grab some design wins in automotive for 48v+ systems.

     

    Yes, it seems like East Penn is ambivalent on the auto market but the Ultra battery tested very well in this report. Also the ALABC seems to pump the Ultra hybrid it just enough that you do wonder if the KIA rumors have any merit; especially as 48V system.

     

    Axion needs to put out a similarly well written white paper.
    23 Mar 2014, 04:36 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (2279) | Send Message
     
    It's a bit glaring in its total omission of data from any testing of the ultracapacitor (PbC), especially given it's appearance in Figure 1. Doh!

     

    And since when is a charge acceptance rate of 1C considered high? That's a joke. There is the briefest mention of 2C and 4C testing by Hunt et al., but no isolated or defined testing at those rates, which I consider very suspect. If they had high rate study data, they would most certainly have presented it. So the entire data set is at 1C and under.

     

    Personally, I think a high rate of charge/discharge would be 10C or better, even better would be real-world application-specific data. I think I read that locos might be generating in excess of 20C. I want to know the maximum capability. I feel there's value in the extreme in the case of DCA.

     

    And they still refer to refresh charging every 8 weeks to recover lost functionality.

     

    It was nice to see the data that they did present, because it leaves a lot of room for improvement.
    23 Mar 2014, 10:01 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    The "C rate" is simply a measure of charge delivery and acceptance that uses the rated capacity of the battery, in amp-hours, as 1C.

     

    So if you're evaluating a 70 ah battery like the 30HT PbC, a 1C charge rate would be 70 amps, a 2C charge rate would be 140 amps and a 4C charge rate would be 280 amps. In other words, 4C is great charge acceptance.

     

    The hook in all reports like the ones cited in the white paper is usually buried in the technical description of the test regime. In the 2008 Hund testing, for example, the "Basic Test Plan For All Devices" was a 10% DOD at a 50% SOC. (See slide 7)

     

    http://1.usa.gov/Nyv8NJ

     

    As soon as you vary the cycling regime, the shape of the resulting curve changes. That's the reason end users have to conduct their own testing to find out how a particular battery performs in a particular device.

     

    Unless you have a very clear idea of what the charge discharge regime will be for your device and you happen to find a study that's used the same regime or something very close, the detailed graphs are useless.
    23 Mar 2014, 11:22 AM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    "Axion needs to put out a similarly well written white paper."

     

    I fully agree, this is exactly the kind of engineering data that Axion no doubt has tons of and fails to publish as part of a professional Marketing Plan. Axion has two types of customers that need this kind of advertising: the first being those who might be incentivized to buy thier products and the second being those who might be incentivized to by shares in their company. A well written, professional looking white papers like this one that disclose the performance characteristics of a competiror's battery may will peak the interest of both types of customer. No a white paper will not make the sale but it does provide exposure an information that helps to open the door to the selling process.

     

    Axion has been in dire need of an effective marketing plan for at least four years and it is clear to me that they are still without one. Axion's poor sales performance relative to both buyers of AXPW shares and buyers of PbC batteries, attests to the non-existance of an effective marketing plan.

     

    So why is this so? Why has management not done their job in marketing and sales? Why has the BOD not seen that managment has not done their job in marketing and sales and why has the BOD not done something to correct the situation?

     

    JP thinks that Axion's management has done the best job possible and I totally disagree in this area of marketing and sales. I am convinced that the PbC battery is a marketable product and that it has been Axion's defficiencies in the areas of marketing and sales that have placed AXPW squarely 'behind the eight ball'.
    23 Mar 2014, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    You say; "Axion needs to put out a similarly well written white paper."

     

    I fully agree. This is exactly the kind of engineering data that Axion no doubt has tons of and fails to publish as part of a professional Marketing Plan. Axion has two types of customers that need this kind of advertising: the first being those who might be incentivized to buy their products and the second being those who might be incentivized to buy shares in their company. A well written, professional looking white papers like this one that disclose the performance characteristics of a competitor’s battery may will peak the interest of both types of customer. No a white paper will not make the sale but it does provide exposure an information that helps to open the door to the selling process.

     

    Axion has been in dire need of an effective marketing plan for at least four years and it is clear to me that they are still without one. Axion's poor sales performance relative to both buyers of AXPW shares and buyers of PbC batteries, attests to the non-existence of an effective marketing plan.

     

    So why is this so? Why has management not done their job in marketing and sales? Why has the BOD not seen that management has not done their job in marketing and sales and why has the BOD not done something to correct the situation?

     

    JP thinks that Axion's management has done the best job possible and I totally disagree in this area of marketing and sales. I am convinced that the PbC battery is a marketable product and that it has been Axion's deficiencies in the areas of marketing and sales that have placed AXPW squarely 'behind the eight ball'.
    23 Mar 2014, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2150) | Send Message
     
    pbc Believer,
    An odd name for someone sowing the seeds of dissent on this board. 2 posts 4 minutes apart that are exactly the same are also suspect (in my mind).

     

    But, as a quick response to your post, it is possible that a majority of the testing you would like to know about was performed for a customer that had an NDA attached for various reasons. As you can see by my icon, I can come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories. I don't need any help, most of what you ask has been discussed in the past (check out BWs listing).

     

    The company and tech is what it is, do your DD, accept that it is a personally responsible decision based on available info, whether good, bad or ugly.

     

    I haven't seen any arm twisting to get people to buy or sell this or any other stock.
    23 Mar 2014, 02:46 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    Double entry was because I forgot to do a spell check on the first one.

     

    I do believe in this battery for good reasons and I do not believe that the proper marketing has been done, also for good reasons.

     

    I will certainly take a look at BW's listing, thanks.
    23 Mar 2014, 02:54 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    Stilldazed,
    Can you give me lead on where to find this listing of BW's?
    23 Mar 2014, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2150) | Send Message
     
    pbc Believer,
    Yes, in the header lead article (been there over a year IIRC) mixed in with the charts and other info is a link. Also a link to a Wiki page started by another commenter. These are listed under the caption of "other useful places".
    23 Mar 2014, 03:23 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    I have spent two hours reviewing the technical information posted on these sites. So far nothing found that refutes what I have said about the lack of a professional marketing plan. Can you point me to a single document that you feel does this technology justice?
    23 Mar 2014, 07:19 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2150) | Send Message
     
    Nope, if you are that concerned, email or call the company.
    23 Mar 2014, 07:28 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    Which takes us back to the question you refused to answer yesterday.

     

    Can you point me to a single document on any battery company's website that you feel does their technology justice?

     

    The only company I've seen that does a great job of providing technical detail on their products is Maxwell, but it's a lot easier to generate relevant summary information on a simple supercapacitor than it is for a battery.

     

    The Ultrabattery white paper is a marketing puff piece for customers who don't know what they need or want. It's meaningless to anybody who does know what he needs.

     

    With the sole exception of Maxwell, I've had to search high and low and cobble together bits and pieces of information from diverse sources to arrive at the understandings I have.

     

    It's unfair, unreasonable and misleading to complain that Axion doesn't present something the way you think it should be presented unless you can point to several industry peers that do meet your presentation standards.
    23 Mar 2014, 07:29 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/1kThqrP

     

    John, Did you not read this?
    23 Mar 2014, 08:20 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2150) | Send Message
     
    PB,
    I don't know many companies of any size that share market strategy in specifics with the public or with shareholders (maybe some do and I haven't noticed).

     

    Vani seems to be a pro with good contacts in the areas where our product fits well. I can't see him running around without a plan that is modified as needed.

     

    Our product is known in the auto, trucking, rail and storage industries. Testing has been extensive and ongoing with a few small contract wins (US Navy yard and the recent PC sale).

     

    We have only been a commercial enterprise for apprx a year with a disruptive tech that requires engineering to work in a system b/c of the way the battery charges and discharges.

     

    This is the last synopsis I will give to you. You now have more info than I had when I made my decision. Lay down your money and take your chances or walk away from the table. (JMHO)
    23 Mar 2014, 08:53 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    It sounds to me that you are saying that if all the companies in this particular industry are doing a less then adequate job with regard to marketing, this fact alone is an excuse for Axion doing the same.

     

    Such thinking baffles me. There is no excuse in my mind for Axion doing an inadequate job in marketing and sales when they claim to be in the commercialization phase of their business plan. The PbC battery deserves better than what has been done by Axion in the area of marketing and sales and perhaps it is not too late to correct the situation.

     

    This is my position and you can disagree if you wish, but it remains my position.
    23 Mar 2014, 09:05 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    I read it in detail and concluded it was a marketing puff piece for customers who don't have the foggiest idea what they need or want. It's meaningless to anybody who does know what he needs.
    23 Mar 2014, 09:07 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    I'm more than happy to agree to disagree on almost any topic and marketing is certainly no exception. You believe the entire battery industry is doing it wrong. I believe the battery industry is adhering to well established practices that have served it well for over a century.
    23 Mar 2014, 09:13 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1780) | Send Message
     
    pascquale,
    Many are probably like me. They had time to download it, but haven't had time to read it. Life just works that way sometimes, especially on the weekends.
    23 Mar 2014, 09:13 PM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (292) | Send Message
     
    PbC Believer -->> Axion has already put out a white paper on DCA. It is on their website, and it can be found by doing a Yahoo or Google search on "Axion White Paper DCA". It has better info in it than the advertising feature does from Ecoult that was linked earlier.

     

    The Ecoult feature has many pages in it and lots of paragraphs, but it is short on some very basic and much needed info, such as DCA in amperage and that same DCA info in volts and amps for far more than only 10,000 cycles. One year of stop/start driving amounts to 12,000 cycles.

     

    And we can't forget that carbon additives have been used by many battery manufacturers since the 1970s, long before the idea of stop/start came along.

     

    These carbon additives were first added to batteries in order to extend the lifetimes the battery, the number of cycles that it could last for. So, seeing a cycle life of 200,000 cycles from Ecoult is not a bulletin.

     

    The additives' purpose was never for stop/start driving. It is only now that these carbon based additives are being promoted by the big name battery makers as being an answer for stop/start, and the reason that they are going all out to sell them as the answer is because they do not have the patents on a single carbon only negative electrode -- somebody else already has that patent.
    23 Mar 2014, 09:28 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (2019) | Send Message
     
    The additional battery manufacturer approached Axion at the behest of an auto OEM who was attracted to the PbC through Axion's white papers. Thus I have to conclude that at least some marketing effort is being done with detailed battery specs. If not published on their website besides the DCA white paper, Vani's sales team is at least forwarding them to the interested parties.
    23 Mar 2014, 09:37 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    Still
    My decision making has to do not with investing more money on this taable, it has to do with me taking my money off this table, but thanks for your synopsis.
    23 Mar 2014, 09:44 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    The ulta battery is not in the same class as the carbon additive group of batteries, it is more akin to the PbC battery but not quite and yet it does not to anyones knowledge infringe any of the Axion patents.

     

    It is clearly a competitor to the PbC battery in every respect and in my point is that they appear to be doing a far better job of marketing then Axion.

     

    I believe that the PbC battery is the better battery but often times in the business world it is the company that does the better job of marketing that turns out the winner.

     

    I am as my tag says, a PbC Believer but more then that I am a realist and Axion is not doing an acceptable job of marketing the PbC battery in my opinion.

     

    Sorry if we happen to disagree, but as they say, that's life mate.
    23 Mar 2014, 10:04 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1740) | Send Message
     
    -----> PBC Believer: I appreciate your push-back on the marketing topics... but PLEASE! for the love of God, learn the difference between "then" and "than" and when to properly use each in a sentence. It is undermining your credibility.

     

    Muchas Gracias!!!
    23 Mar 2014, 10:26 PM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (292) | Send Message
     
    PbC Believer -->> You are incorrect and at the same time absolutely correct about the UltraBattery versus the PbC or other batteries in the carbon additive group of batteries. It is incorrect to say that the UltraBattery is not in the same class as the carbon additive group of batteries. It is also incorrect to say that the UB is more akin to the PbC and that the UB is clearly a competitor to the PbC in every respect. Where you are correct is in saying that the marketing of the UB is much better.

     

    Comments saying that the UltraBattery is not in the same class as carbon additive batteries and that the UB is closely akin to the PbC and a clear competitor to the PbC prove that you are correct on the success of the marketing efforts for the UltraBattery.

     

    The UltraBattery most certainly is in the same class as the carbon additive group of batteries. It combines lead with carbon on the negative side of the battery. Although it does so in a different manner than other carbon based additive batteries, the performance results do put it within the carbon based additive group.

     

    One of my previous posts has the DCA numbers published by the Furakawa Battery Company. Furakawa is one of the license holders for the production and sales of the UB. These numbers have the UB requiring over 5 minutes to recharge itself from approximately 90% SOC to a SOC of 98%. The PbC can recharge from a SOC of 80% to 100% in 35 to 50 seconds, and do so for 100,000 cycles, at least.

     

    There are cases in which the discharge behaviour of the UB is basically the same as batteries with a carbon paste or carbon coating on the negative electrode.

     

    It is worth noting that the UB marketing team has gone to much effort to avoid any comparison with other carbon based additive batteries. Almost all of the marketing material put out on the UB will compare the UB with AGM or flooded lead-acid batteries. Great care is taken to not compare the UB with the other carbon additive batteries in its class. Sure, the UB is designed to be different than the other carbon additive batteries, but, so far, it's performance is in the carbon additive class.

     

    The UB team wants consumers to believe that the UB is a serious and genuine step up from a "carbon additive" battery, and so far, that marketing effort is working.
    23 Mar 2014, 11:39 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    User3... Thanks for taking the time to respond. My issue is with Axion’s lack of professionally done marketing for the PbC battery which would at the same time serve to establish and maintain AXPW’s Corporate Image.

     

    I reviewed your 72 blogs on this website and it would appear that you have spent many hours of digging for your information. You obviously felt that what you were looking for was important to you and that other prospective AXPW shareholders would also have a similar interest. I feel, based on personal experience, that a professionally executed AXPW marketing plan would have presented your data in a way that: a) would be more impressive then you were able to do here in a blog, and b) would be more readily accessible and more frequently viewed by prospective investors.
    24 Mar 2014, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1165) | Send Message
     
    PB, ditto on learning the difference between "then" and "than."
    24 Mar 2014, 12:37 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2305) | Send Message
     
    PbC, we get it. You have "issues."

     

    Our condolences. Can we poor Unbelievers offer tissues for your issues?
    24 Mar 2014, 02:28 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    SMaturin: Possible PbCB is from down under and sees the PbC as a competitor to what CSIRO developed? That would cause a more jaundiced eye to be cast upon the PbC.

     

    "... but as they say, that's life mate" would apply.

     

    HardToLove
    24 Mar 2014, 02:38 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4825) | Send Message
     
    Since neither one sells in any quantity ... and doesn't appear to be likely to happen ... does it matter?
    24 Mar 2014, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4221) | Send Message
     
    "Since neither one sells in any quantity ... and doesn't appear to be likely to happen ... does it matter? "

     

    :-) Might if one is a marketing consultant working hard to gen up business.
    24 Mar 2014, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (292) | Send Message
     
    iindelco -->> Ford -S/S core system engineer...

     

    Could this be taken to mean that Ford thinks that S/S is capable of far much more than is currently being gotten out of it and that Ford is viewing what they are currently offering in S/S as being primitive, initial, first steps?

     

    BTW, if it is not too late, I think that you should toss your name into the hat, unless, of course, you already have....
    22 Mar 2014, 05:31 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    User39, Certainly, as we've seen here, there are many different options concerning how individual companies are progressing based on meeting their needs for the varying regulatory markets. And the different offerings are evolving all the time. Heck, Someone might even try one of those new PbC things!

     

    Oh, IMO the current implementation of low end SS with enhanced flooded and AGM batteries is customer abuse. Shame on the European regulators and the automakers.
    22 Mar 2014, 06:45 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    User39, What I mean by customer abuse.

     

    http://bit.ly/OJafrf
    22 Mar 2014, 07:36 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    User393748,
    Definitely need an Axionista in there?
    22 Mar 2014, 06:37 PM Reply Like
  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (497) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » UPDATED! John's charts in the header.
    23 Mar 2014, 07:55 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    A couple observations on what I see in the new graphs is probably in order.

     

    While the 10-day VWMA price is starting to roll over as the huge volume days from early March fall out of the calculation, the 5-day VWMA price has already completed a brief roll over and resumed it's upward trend. Unless we see a major softening next week, I expect the same pattern with the 10-day VWMA. I think we're seeing a brief consolidation rather than a change in trend.

     

    Because of the huge trading volumes we saw in early March and the light volumes we've seen over the last week, there's a good chance that the 10-day volume might return to pre-PIPE levels by the end of March. This would be one more sign that the daily beatings have come to an end.
    23 Mar 2014, 08:49 AM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (964) | Send Message
     
    Mr. Peterson:
    What is the problem with giving the driver more control over the system? How much more complex than a separation of the accelerator petal and the "cruise control" would be needed?

     

    What I mean is the accelerator controlling the electric motor and the "cruise control" controlling the diesel engine. The driver would then control the state of charge of the batteries based on road conditions.

     

    Am I completely missing something here?
    23 Mar 2014, 08:33 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    We've spent a lot of time talking with fleet operators and they invariably complain that good drivers are hard to find and even harder to keep. In all but the rarest of cases, electronic controls do a far better job of maximizing fuel economy. One of our strongest selling points is that our system's electronic controls significantly improve the on-road performance of less skilled drivers. Its also a safety issue because drawing a driver's attention away from the road is always hazardous.
    23 Mar 2014, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • dlmca
    , contributor
    Comments (390) | Send Message
     
    Still nothing on the next CC on AXPW web site

     

    Hope we will see something confirmed the next day or two

     

    News...can get us $0.30. Great news beyond - but that...but I would be happy with another consolidation at $0.30 before news of some significance this coming Fall

     

    I suspect considerable paddling below the surface these days - eyes on those who need to perform - and changes coming if results are not forthcoming

     

    23 Mar 2014, 01:18 PM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (292) | Send Message
     
    In rereading the 2012 NSC FRA 2010 - 2011 grant document info, I found some extra info on the rebuilding program for the 999. Note, parts of this NSC document were written as recently as 2013.

     

    As I previously posted, NSC has plans to test a number of emerging battery technologies, such as the East Penn UB, the GE sodium nickel chloride battery, and lithium ion batteries, and this document states that the Axion PbC was the first of these battery technologies to be tested.

     

    For suppliers, the supplier for the racking is IntraPack and there are 144 battery trays for the 999, and TMV Control Systems is supplying the battery management system. The redesigned racking was to allow for access to any one individual battery and the battery management unit was redesigned to allow for charging of individual batteries as opposed to a group of 5 or 6 batteries. More granularity for battery monitoring was part of the redesign.

     

    A rectifier was designed and built to be used on the 999 to convert 480 volt AC to DC. NSC states that "[o]nboard rectification is considered a big step towards commercialization."

     

    NSC first built a Hybrid locomotive Simulator, and is first testing ideas and improvements in the HLS simulator before testing them on the 999, itself, even so far as to building and testing the racking in the simulator first. The HLS has its limitations, so NSC is working with the Pennsylvania Transportation Institute (PTI) for the more advanced testing that the HLS cannot do.

     

    NSC is working with New York Air Brake (NYAB) to develop profiles of various track routes for simulated testing and is working with NYAB to model "potential hybrid locomotive
    configurations."

     

    The 30HT sized PbC batteries are being used on the 999, and the 30H size of PbC batteries is being used on the HLS simulator. The 30HT is what NSC has in mind for the 999 and "future applications."

     

    The batteries that NSC ordered from Axion in August of 2012 were not delivered directly to any of the NSC works yards. Those PbC batteries were first sent to the racking fabricator for fitting.

     

    A reading of this NSC document could be taken to indicate that part of the testing program for the 999 just might involve letting the 999 sit idle and unused for a number of weeks, most probably to gauge the battery and overall system behaviour after sitting out of service for an extended amount of time.

     

    NSC refers in this document to the Axion PbC as being unique and that it is a challenging exercise to compare the PbC to a VRLA battery due to "a wider range of operating voltage on the PbC (6 - 13.5 V) and different target voltages for charging (13.5 V not 14.7 V)." Also mentioned is that "the system requirements for the PbC strings require 800 volts."

     

    NSC and the FRA have agreed to focus on voltage systems in the 400 to 800 volt range. So, other "emerging battery technologies" being considered by NSC have to be able to do regen braking and quick dishcarge and operate at up to 800 volts, operate at a PSOC and have a wide enough operating voltage window in order to accept the high charge from the regen braking.

     

    The document noted that there were significant improvements from the previous 999 powered with the Enersys Odyssey PC2150 Group 31 VRLA batteries compared to the rebuilt 999 using the Axion PbC batteries. NSC attributed the noted improvements to "the combination of the new BMS and the unique PbC chemistry."

     

    Regarding the number of personnel on th 999 project, in addition to the personnel doing the redesigning and the assembly for the 999, there is going to be perhaps 10 or more people needed to go through the real time (every 6 seconds) performance results being collected by the battery mangement system.

     

    So, there is a team of perhaps as many as 75 people, some working full time and maybe some working part time, on the 999 and the NSC road application

     

    According the the document, NSC's interest in going full electric or hybrid is rooted in reducing their carbon footprint and in getting away from the problem of "wide fluctuations in diesel fuel costs." Problematic variations in diesel fuel expenditures would then necessarily be a problem for all railway companies. Such would be encouraging news for the entire rail road locomotive electrification industry as a whole.
    23 Mar 2014, 07:26 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10512) | Send Message
     
    User: Great post! Thanks!
    23 Mar 2014, 07:56 PM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (292) | Send Message
     
    Maya -->> No problem.

     

    It is no small wonder that NSC is behind its hoped for timelines. I guess that the same could be said for BMW and any auto makers working with the PbC.

     

    All of these battery projects of any rendition are more ambitious than they first appear.
    23 Mar 2014, 08:17 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10512) | Send Message
     
    User: A long time ago I suggested that racking issues were a very complicated problem for using PbCs in both Norfolk's OTR as well as the yard switcher (Which, by and large was dismissed as being not as complicated a task to achieve as I was back then spelling out. Hey, that's the way it is/was -- long before TG ever mentioned "racking issues," as one reason for the delays).

     

    I used to sell mobile filing systems that with a mere forefinger one could push around a 1000lbs or more. Yet pushing around tons of file folders or magnetic tape files over uneven floors, or floors that needed to be reinforced to hold the weight, made complicated installations difficult to be overseen, especially in the older buildings that AmTrak occupied.

     

    Your fine comment and fantastic research once again offers veracity and backstory to how difficult it is to minimalized the jolting and inertia issues, and also the thermal and ease of access issues that seem to have delayed NSC for far longer than most of us Axionistas ever anticipated years back.

     

    Thanks again for your fine DD. Excellent stuff.
    23 Mar 2014, 09:45 PM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (292) | Send Message
     
    Maya -->> Now that you mention it, I do recall you mentioning sometime ago your experience with the difficulties in the filing cabinets that you were selling and that the same problems may have been what NSC was trying to solve.

     

    About 2 or 3 years ago I found these concentrators on the Web, and I can say that I then started to catch up by reading every single Axion concentrator starting with your initial report on day one. So, although my posting history is very short, I am familiar with the backstory from these concentrators and do have memories of some of the experiences such as yours and the racking issues.
    23 Mar 2014, 10:12 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    User 383748: I found your comment on (NSC) stuff very valuable. I bookmarked it because over time so many things get forgotten and you comment was very valuable, IMO.

     

    HardToLove
    24 Mar 2014, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5521) | Send Message
     
    I just read that entire article and have a couple of questions.

     

    1. Why does the Furukawa battery always outperform East Penn's and sometimes very significantly ?
    If I read this right,,Furukawa's battery probably performs just like a PBC ?

     

    2. It appears that East Penn & Furakawa have tweaked the battery and changed the design to make it considerably better since 2008...? Maybe 2-3 times better

     

    3. If I read it correctly, East Penn is making different size batteries and configurations ... such as a very large unit for grid apps that would only require say 100-200 batteries vs. AXPW 500-1000 battery units ?

     

    It still appears to me that AXPW has a very tough road ahead if these numbers are true. We have agreed that one of the biggest threats was that the "2nd best" might be good enough and this paper may prove that to be true.
    24 Mar 2014, 02:37 AM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (3469) | Send Message
     
    I think the Ultra white paper was a marketing piece as mentioned above. But I also wish Axion would do this same type of easy to read white paper (preferably with better data comparisons).

     

    Since its assumed on this concentrator that the PbC data would impress both the technical and the non-technical types alike - why doesn't Axion just spell it out in layman's turn similar to the Ecoult paper. Yes, maybe this type of white papers is for amateurs and investors only. But we all know Axion can use more eyeballs (even amatuer ones) and demand for its equity and batteries can't be hurt by a little promotion. I can see how it likely doesn't help engineers make purchasing decisions, but it might help TG do his tap dance for money when he does his presentations for potential investors, and thats good enough reason.
    24 Mar 2014, 02:49 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (659) | Send Message
     
    I did a search on Axion Power and came across this classified ad in the pennysaver. Is it a mistake or an early publication of an ad that Axion is planning on starting selling PbC batteries?

     

    http://bit.ly/ORjipU

     

    Buy reusable Deep Cycle Lead Carbon batteries for maximum storage and long useful lives and save environment! Axion Power produces and sells advanced PbC batteries to meet high capacity energy storage needs! Visit axionpower.com for more details.
    24 Mar 2014, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    The Raleigh, NC address and (919) telephone exchange strike me as more than a little bit strange.
    24 Mar 2014, 09:13 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (659) | Send Message
     
    I agree. I wonder if someone placed it as a prank or as an attempt to get Axion to sell direct to the public as some Axionistas have demanded.
    24 Mar 2014, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (659) | Send Message
     
    I just sent an e-mail to Rudy Barrio to ask about it. I'll let you know if I hear anything.
    24 Mar 2014, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    However, it's totally consistent that we would be advertised in a PennySaver :-)
    24 Mar 2014, 09:35 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    I just called the phone number listed on the advertisement (919) 827-5835 and a man answered who did not have a clue regarding Axion or why his phone number is on Pennysaverusa!
    24 Mar 2014, 09:35 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    In fact, I expect TG to lead off the CC with an "atta-boy" to the staff member who came up with the PennySaver proposal ...
    24 Mar 2014, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    Many thanks RBrun. It looks somebody has opened a new bag of dirty tricks.
    24 Mar 2014, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    I agree, the gentleman was really confused as to why I was calling, he thought that I was attempting to sell him some batteries, he did not want any! ;-))

     

    After I explained that his number is on Pennysaverusa he stated he had no idea why. I will say this, he would make a terrible salesman!
    24 Mar 2014, 09:52 AM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (228) | Send Message
     
    RB,
    Was his name Vani?
    24 Mar 2014, 10:24 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Was his name Martin?

     

    Pearlshine Auto Spa

     

    http://bit.ly/1iUoEvO
    24 Mar 2014, 10:29 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    ant,

     

    Now that you mention it!

     

    ;-))
    24 Mar 2014, 10:29 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Adam Ant? Lithium indeed!

     

    http://bit.ly/1gRubhv

     

    BTW, I guess Axion is branching out from their sole distribution channel on HelloTrade!

     

    http://bit.ly/P2yigE
    24 Mar 2014, 10:37 AM Reply Like
  • dastar
    , contributor
    Comments (287) | Send Message
     
    I was actually going to call that # today. Glad you saved me the trouble, RBrun. :) Guess it's somebody who thinks they need to do some marketing for Axion, I suppose.
    24 Mar 2014, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1780) | Send Message
     
    JVeal,
    I did a little map searching, since I live in Durham. As far as I can tell, the address given doesn't exits. Johnson Street in Raleigh doesn't go up to 3861, it only goes up to 1000. And zipcode 27616 is in a different part of the city than where the street it. Something's up, to say the least.

     

    Update: I called the number. The guy on the other end had no idea what I was talking about when I asked about batteries. It was a private number.

     

    Someone is making stuff up.
    24 Mar 2014, 11:40 AM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2305) | Send Message
     
    if you click the "larger map link" in the pennysaver add, you get a MapQuest map location on "Success Way." Between Ability Road and Fox Road.

     

    Clever troll!

     

    EDIT: plugging the long/lat coordinates into google maps shows that the location is Wake Tech Community College. Very strange coincidence... a relative is enrolled there with the intent of transferring into NCSU engineering when he gets the credits needed. I do not recall telling him about Axion, but I did discuss some of my pharmaceutical investments with him last year.
    24 Mar 2014, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (659) | Send Message
     
    Definitely a hoax. I have yet to hear from Rudy Barrio.
    24 Mar 2014, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • dastar
    , contributor
    Comments (287) | Send Message
     
    Probably a shareholder/axionista who probably thinks AXPW doesn't do a good job of marketing and has taken advertising into their own hands. I wonder if a Craig's List ad is up next? lol
    24 Mar 2014, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2814) | Send Message
     
    I sent a note to Pennysaver to alert them to a possible Scam/Fraud.
    24 Mar 2014, 05:07 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2814) | Send Message
     
    Just checked out pennywise got this.

     

    Sorry, this ad has expired. Please check out a similar ad!
    30 Mar 2014, 10:25 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Froggey, We are beholden to you for removing this distraction. Very odd but, for a mid term observer such as myself, not beyond disbelief.

     

    A warm fuzzy coming your way!
    30 Mar 2014, 11:33 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    Pre-market 5K @ $0.175 "buy". Bid move from $0.1702 by NITE to $0.175 by VNDM, who has *almost* never been active here.

     

    Ask moves from $0.175x5K CSTI to $0.1775 CSTI.

     

    Bid has no support below it prior to $0.15. ATDF will normally start filling that gap in 1/100th penny increments though as the day progresses.

     

    HardToLove
    EDIT: NITE came back at $0.1702x5K.
    24 Mar 2014, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2662) | Send Message
     
    A different kind of Axion Power:

     

    http://bit.ly/1iUcfb9
    24 Mar 2014, 09:26 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    It's good to know that some Axion work is supported by the DOE. "This work was supported in part by the U.S. Department of Energy under contract de-sc0009800."
    24 Mar 2014, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    Guess it's not just the Enron's of the world screwing you in California ...

     

    "But to date only a dozen of those customers have battery systems connected to the grid. That’s because California’s three large utilities are slowing down the connection process, requiring a series of applications, charging high fees for connecting batteries (in some cases close to $4,000 per customer), and just taking a very long time to connect the batteries to the grid, says SolarCity."

     

    A hurdle for Tesla and SolarCity’s grid batteries: Utilities
    by Katie Fehrenbacher MAR. 20, 2014

     

    Are the combination of solar panels and grid batteries so powerful that they’re causing utilities to block them? Or are the utilities just moving slowly?

     

    http://bit.ly/1iUgFic
    24 Mar 2014, 09:49 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    "Improved battery sensors are a particularly hot area for the ARPA-E-backed university and government lab research. The idea behind these projects is to get as much granular data as possible — in as close to real-time as possible — out of the batteries.

     

    Researchers at Battelle Memorial Institute are working on an optical fault sensor for lithium-ion batteries that can detect internal faults in batteries long before they can lead to a battery failure. Similarly GE’s Global Research group is developing tiny, low-cost sensors that can detect battery pressure and temperature in real time and help predict battery problems before they happen.

     

    Engineers at Lawrence Livermore National Labs have been working on a wireless sensor system for the battery pack itself, which would reduce the use of more expensive pack cables that connect the pack. PARC, in conjunction with battery maker LG-Chem, has been creating a fiber optic sensing system for electric car battery packs that detects shifts in wavelength and combines that tech with smart algorithms. Washington University in St. Louis has a team focused on building modelling software to create a predictive battery management system, which could optimize battery cell use and charging."

     

    The coming battery boom will need better software, sensors & data
    by Katie Fehrenbacher MAR. 5, 2014

     

    http://bit.ly/Q7n9Ak
    24 Mar 2014, 09:57 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    "Improved battery sensors are a particularly hot area for the ARPA-E-backed university and government lab research. The idea behind these projects is to get as much granular data as possible — in as close to real-time as possible — out of the batteries."

     

    That's the easier part of the package so if you have to show some successes in the medium term you place some focus in these areas.
    25 Mar 2014, 09:57 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Yep, grid storage stinks IMO.

     

    Li-ion maker A123 Systems sells Energy Solutions business to NEC for ~$100M; focus on micro-hybrids and transportation

     

    " A123 Systems LLC, a developer and manufacturer of advanced Nanophosphate lithium iron phosphate batteries and systems, is selling its grid storage business and other assets related to energy storage for telecom and IT data storage applications to NEC Corporation for approximately $100 million.

     

    A123, which is retaining its all of its existing cell manufacturing and sales, research and development, and automotive operations, is increasingly focused on the transportation market with a particular emphasis on micro-hybrids (earlier post). NEC will incorporate the former A123 Energy Solutions Business into a new “NEC Energy Solutions” company, which will begin operation in June 2014."

     

    http://bit.ly/1nUfqnW
    24 Mar 2014, 12:51 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    From the linked A123 Press Release:

     

    "The divested businesses are being sold to NEC Corporation of Japan which intends to incorporate them into its Smart Energy Business Unit. The former A123 Energy Solutions facilities in Westborough, Massachusetts and Chesterfield, Missouri are included in the deal. As part of the transaction, A123 will retain all of its cell manufacturing locations globally including those in Michigan and China and become a key cell supplier to NEC."

     

    http://bit.ly/1gSjLhG
    24 Mar 2014, 02:38 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4221) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/1m2v7op

     

    " A team of researchers at the University of Delaware has discovered a “sticky” conductive material that may eliminate the need for binders in Li-ion battery electrodes. Bingqing Wei, professor of mechanical engineering and doctoral student Zeyuan Cao recently discovered that fragmented carbon nanotube macrofilms (FCNT) can serve as adhesive conductors, combining two functions in one material. Their work is reported in ACS Nano, and they have filed a patent application on the discovery.

     

    The problem with the current technology is that the binders impair the electrochemical performance of the battery because of their insulating properties. Furthermore, the organic solvents used to mix the binders and conductive materials together not only add to the expense of the final product, but also are toxic to humans.
    —Bingqing Wei"
    24 Mar 2014, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    The wait and the weight are not working for us.

     

    BMW-Toyota hybrid sportscar to use supercapacitors - report

     

    " In this regard, Toyota’s Le Mans technology will definitely come in handy, helping out in various areas like compensating for turbo lag that might be a problem since the internal combustion unit used will most likely be a 2-liter 4-cylinder engine pushed to the limit, probably making around 300 HP or more."

     

    http://bit.ly/1djfSqZ
    24 Mar 2014, 02:15 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (2019) | Send Message
     
    iindelco, I don't think you are suggesting this Li-cap config will be a problem for the PbC right? That would be used in full hybrid sports cars that need the light weight and power boost, yet have hefty margins. I don't think you are but don't want any readers to think otherwise.
    24 Mar 2014, 02:36 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Ranma, This is a very high end application. They will light weight heavily. I'd pay more attention to the middle segments like the Kia application or some futures generations or BMW closer to the 3 series.

     

    So yes, Thank you for making that point. It's clearly an important one.
    24 Mar 2014, 02:57 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    John: Daily short sales percentage should be very low today: through 14:46 buy:sell is 1:3.41 (22.69% "buys").

     

    HardToLove
    24 Mar 2014, 02:50 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    John: buy:sell recovered some: Buy:Sell 1:2.59 (27.89% "buys") so shorts weren't as low as I expected: DlyShts 132511 (26.59%).

     

    Not high, but not all that low either.

     

    HardToLove
    24 Mar 2014, 06:59 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    I think you might benefit if you spent some time wading through the adopting release for Regulation SHO, which includes a very detailed discussion of the market maker's exemption for short sales arising from bona-fide market making activities.

     

    http://1.usa.gov/Q94jJ2
    24 Mar 2014, 07:20 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    John: I'm familiar with that. I've been reading all I can for years on it and everything else I can find about how the market operates..

     

    My understanding may continue to improve as I read it again, but a lot of what I try to predict and understand is based on their exemption.

     

    Regardless, there is a strong correlation between buy percentage, in a *normal* market for AXPW, and short percentage,

     

    I won't burden the board with my understanding of the mechanics - you would just discount them again and I would just hold my position again.

     

    HardToLove
    24 Mar 2014, 07:28 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    My interpretation of the market makers exemption is far narrower than yours, so I see different factors at play in the FINRA numbers. I regard them as facts to interpret rather than predict.
    24 Mar 2014, 07:43 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2662) | Send Message
     
    More than two years since the 32kw Navy Yard PR was released. Anyone know how that project is going?

     

    http://bit.ly/11qIvw9
    24 Mar 2014, 03:04 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    Stefan: Isn't that the one that had an order incorporating another battery recently? I forget who posted it. ISTR solar panels and Li-ion batteries?

     

    HardToLove
    24 Mar 2014, 03:08 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4221) | Send Message
     
    HTL ... Are you thinking about the Philadelphia Navy Yard project? IIRC it went to Li-ion batteries.
    24 Mar 2014, 06:57 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    D-Inv: That's probably what I was recalling.

     

    HardToLove
    24 Mar 2014, 07:00 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2662) | Send Message
     
    HTL -

     

    I'm not sure. Sil-tek was the contractor, but I don't recall seeing anything else. Quite frankly, it's been mostly crickets on this project since the initial PR. At one point, there was kind of a cool video showing how the project had been built. I think this was it, but it doesn't show any batteries:

     

    http://bit.ly/1djsUVJ

     

    And there was another article describing the batteries as gel batteries. Couldn't find that link.
    24 Mar 2014, 03:19 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    don't know if more than one project "there," but here:

     

    Navy Yard Visitor's Center Completes Net Zero Project

     

    Story Number: NNS120913-19Release Date: 9/13/2012 3:44:00 PM

     

    http://1.usa.gov/SXdWYO

     

    "A few of the notable changes that will allow the Visitor's Center to become Net Zero include: spray-foam and blown-in cellulose insulation, electrochromic windows, LED lighting, and a new geothermal heat-pump HVAC system. There are also Solar Panels and Micro-Wind turbines on the adjacent parking structure that tie into a cutting edge hybrid-gel battery system which can power the building in the event of a power failure."

     

    Perhaps some linkedin profiles might pop up with a few of the right search terms?
    24 Mar 2014, 04:12 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2662) | Send Message
     
    That's the gel battery link WT. You would think that Axion would want this battery install at a visitor ctr in DC to be a show piece. I don't get the silence.

     

    Last comment I could find was in the 10-K from last August:

     

    The Washington D.C. Naval Yard Net Zero Energy mini-Cube was installed to demonstrate our capability to scale down our PowerCube to reflect smaller applications. This installation continues to operate, and provide building energy, with all of the original PbC batteries still intact. We engaged in this project as a ‘proof of concept’ starting point for our DOD and mini-Cube focused product launch. We feel that strategy will be justified over the next twelve months
    24 Mar 2014, 04:20 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    I think the discussion at the time lead to the belief that the gel battery comment was an error. Here's an article at a military info. site that specifically noted the use of Axion batteries.

     

    http://bit.ly/1nUUkpq
    24 Mar 2014, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    Linkedin of the person in the photo:

     

    http://linkd.in/OP8KrB

     

    Shane Trexler
    Energy Engineer at SilTek, Inc.
    Washington D.C. Metro Area Mechanical or Industrial Engineering

     

    Has anyone reached out to Shane? Like the poor guy in Raleigh, we don't want to bombard him ...
    24 Mar 2014, 06:58 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1834) | Send Message
     
    When is the conference call and end of year results scheduled for? tomorrow?
    24 Mar 2014, 05:12 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (659) | Send Message
     
    The report will probably come out March 31 and the call be April 1. Yes, April fool's day. I believe it has happened before.
    24 Mar 2014, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1834) | Send Message
     
    thanks jveal. Let's hope this time the cc is no joke...:)
    24 Mar 2014, 05:41 PM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (321) | Send Message
     
    Good call jveal. Who says Mr. Granville has no sense of humor?
    25 Mar 2014, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (659) | Send Message
     
    geo, all I did was repeat what JP had written a few days earlier. It follows the pattern, last day to report and conference call the next business day.

     

    New comments are not being marked on my Firefox browser. SA lets me know I have new comments, but it does not highlight them. I start from the bottom and read until I come across the stated number of new comments. I had actually turned my computer off and left it for a couple hours. It still has the same problem.
    25 Mar 2014, 02:19 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    JVeal: Maybe using the search feature of your browser for, e.g., "25 mar" (without the quotes) would speed up the process for you? It's what I do when I similar problems.

     

    HardToLove
    P.S. Usually you can search forward and backward.
    25 Mar 2014, 02:21 PM Reply Like
  • Josh Greene
    , contributor
    Comments (78) | Send Message
     
    Just announced...any past trend leading into earnings to be aware of?
    25 Mar 2014, 02:28 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (659) | Send Message
     
    Thanks HTL. This time I checked the most recent posts at the top right of the concentrator to know what messages I as looking for. This works when there is just a hand full of new posts.
    25 Mar 2014, 02:49 PM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (321) | Send Message
     
    jveal . . good call to JP as well then.

     

    I've lost flags on firefox also, tried safari, same problem. Thanks HT for the work-around suggestion.

     

    Glad the cc is announced. Looking forward to it naturally.
    25 Mar 2014, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3442) | Send Message
     
    jveal, fwiw I'm seeing the same thing in chrome. No orange flags. Had been working 4.0 for a long time before that. Suspect it's purely an SA issue...
    25 Mar 2014, 05:19 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Well at least we can give batteries away! :(

     

    TurboStart rejoins RUSH Series for 2014

     

    http://bit.ly/1nV236Q
    24 Mar 2014, 05:17 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10512) | Send Message
     
    indy: I was just seconds ago looking at that! Hilarious.
    24 Mar 2014, 05:30 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Maya, I got a snicker as well.

     

    BTW, Hope you had luck today getting some of your shares if it was your desire. Or were you inhibited by another BB game! lol
    24 Mar 2014, 05:38 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10512) | Send Message
     
    Indy: Added more today at .165. Those wafer-ish, flush-mounted looking battery terminals in the video of the construct of a PbC I linked last week has me thinking that my estimate, if those terminals are indeed for the PbC, of how many PbCs can be made from over 20,000 lbs of terminals, may be waaaaay too low.

     

    I may write more about my suppositions later this week.

     

    Hit 7 blocks in the local tavern "for amusement only" block pool (year, right). My cell is going bonkers right now with texts. "That's redonkulous" one text stated.

     

    Bought two blocks (out of 100) with ending winning numbers of 0 and 7, and with losing numbers of 9 and 5. So, for instance, when my Buckeyes lost to Dayton 60 to 59, I won that block.

     

    ESPN bracket at 96.6%. Only 374,973 better brackets. Only...
    24 Mar 2014, 06:07 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2662) | Send Message
     
    Maya,

     

    Do you have the mold and terminal links handy? I tried to look back at them again and didn't see them.
    24 Mar 2014, 08:29 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (10512) | Send Message
     
    Sure, Stephan. Scroll down for the construct video of the PbC:

     

    http://bit.ly/Veh5Ra

     

    Please freeze at the 56 second mark. You will see that the PbC terminals appear to be about as thick as two of my $20 gold coins, and more or less flush mounted, as JP indicated. They look nothing like a standard LA battery terminal. They look wafer-ish, like the size of a mini Ritz cracker. At first, a gaping hole in my emerging and admittedly quite playful theory, was that in the video there were no plastic caps. But in the still picture above the vid of the PbC, whalah! there they are, a red plastic button cap for the negative terminal, and a black one for the positive terminal.

     

    As you can plainly see, these terminals look a lot different and smaller in mass than conventional LA battery terminal "posts." All of which potentially skew my "whimsical guestimation" of how many PbCs that can be made from 20,000 plus pounds of lead terminals to much higher than I had previously suggested last week, like as many as 80,000 PbCs, if these little gems weigh only 2 ounces apiece.

     

    Just too good to be true?

     

    I'm riding the fences on this scant information, and lots of holes can be punched in my theory; I may be chasing a cloud, but this order, for me, is the most tangible evidence of something going on that we sleuthing Axionistas have had to chew on to date.

     

    All thanks to Froggey!

     

    Off to meet my cheffy pal back from Killington for a beer or three, and to collect my block pool winnings. Still amazed that I hit 7 out of 48 games, with just 2 blocks out of 100. What are the odds?

     

    Heck, my playful terminal post theory may have better odds ;-)

     

    BTW: I'm clueless about the mold import.
    24 Mar 2014, 09:03 PM Reply Like
  • alsobirdman
    , contributor
    Comments (428) | Send Message
     
    Yes, Maya, I tend to agree. Based upon my years of wrenching on plenty of cars, I am very familiar with that type of battery terminal. Probably weigh a couple ounces or so.

     

    However, what can we infer based upon the potential number of batteries that can be built from this order. I'm sure there is some kind of quantity discount offered on the purchase of said terminals so it seems it would be prudent to buy a large quantity at one time. Can we make a guess that this is a year's worth, 6 months, or ?? Also have to wonder what the lead (rhymes with weed) time is for these terminals. That would impact a buying decision.

     

    The optimist in me sees that they needed a whole bunch of them because they need to build a whole bunch of batteries. Time will tell.
    25 Mar 2014, 10:24 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1914) | Send Message
     
    If it is true that those terminals are intended for PbC batteries, then it is something big indeed. I may not like how Axion's management handles PR, but I don't think they are dishonest. If anything, they are too guarded. I take TG at his word that major projects are afoot even if he can't discuss anything except say that it has to do with grid, solar, autos, trucks, and trains.
    25 Mar 2014, 10:39 AM Reply Like
  • LASF
    , contributor
    Comments (38) | Send Message
     
    I would think that a shipment of this kind is the least we should expect if the company is indeed "preparing for a very steep increase in revenue this year" or whatever the exact quote is.
    25 Mar 2014, 11:15 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2662) | Send Message
     
    It's dangerous to consider the one or two import/export invoices as anything important ... remember last year all the discussion about the carbon shipments?

     

    Here it is a year later and the carbon pallets that JP said he noticed at the shareholders meeting appear to have resulted in one $320K sale.

     

    At least the 10-K should be a little bit more robust on information than the anemic 10-Qs that Axion has released over the last year.
    25 Mar 2014, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    A $320,000 sale of batteries to an integrated solar and storage project that wasn't financed by Uncle Sugar is nothing to criticize.

     

    Yes we need more sales, but in the overall context of the stationary storage market it was a huge win – one of the biggest unsubsidized projects you'll find.
    25 Mar 2014, 11:50 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2662) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    I am not criticizing. Just stating the obvious that you and I have discussed. If we have already had our relief rally (looks like it), and Axion doesn't give the market something more before going back to market, it will be another slaughter.
    25 Mar 2014, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1106) | Send Message
     
    I've always simply assumed that anything we find from the import/export sites are for PbC/other battery business (Turbo Start). I have assumed that all items for the tolling contract would come from East Penn directly.

     

    That said the cap order could simply be a way to purchase up a large volume at an economical price. I'll get excited if we see multiple carbon orders from Kurray in short order.
    25 Mar 2014, 12:24 PM Reply Like
  • dastar
    , contributor
    Comments (287) | Send Message
     
    Ya know mrholty, I remember reading or hearing the same thing.
    25 Mar 2014, 05:56 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Well at least they got the picture right. :(

     

    Behold the “Green Weenie!

     

    "In any case, now that the technology has been proven to work, the central question is no longer “Can we?” but “Will we?”"

     

    http://bit.ly/1kYIuGk
    24 Mar 2014, 05:28 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2113) | Send Message
     
    "Well at least they got the picture right."

     

    Very Clever. Had to think about it for a minute, Smiling now
    24 Mar 2014, 07:52 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    I like it.
    Positive comments about the contribution of PbC batteries to both efficiency and ecology.

     

    Too bad we have heard nothing to confirm that the 999 is actually in opertion yet.
    24 Mar 2014, 08:38 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Well it certainly is just humor. Out of frustration for sure. But, at least, it indicates more than just the Axionista's are watching and waiting.

     

    Alas, the best technology is not always applied based on many influences that humans conger up. I suspect we are getting closer to our day of reckoning. Up or down I cannot say but the status quo cannot and will not remain in place. We do not have the momentum to continue to bumble along.
    24 Mar 2014, 10:21 PM Reply Like
  • brianfscott
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    How appropriate in that the picture heading the article does not show the locomotive, just a green and fuzzy landscape!
    25 Mar 2014, 02:51 AM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (964) | Send Message
     
    Mid-America Trucking Show MARCH 27 - 29, 2014
    http://bit.ly/OV9pau

     

    "We need 1,000 ePower conversions by Christmas." - Major Trucking Company

     

    "We need 2,000 ePower conversions by Thanksgiving!" - Their Competitor
    25 Mar 2014, 07:38 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (659) | Send Message
     
    Green,

     

    Are you quoting what you hope will be said or did you find the quotes on a web site?
    25 Mar 2014, 08:43 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    It's dangerous to combine Hopium and LSD, but the trip is obviously wondrous. I'll be happy when we get the first Gen3 tractor optimized.
    25 Mar 2014, 08:51 AM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13589) | Send Message
     
    "LSD"... Maybe it stands for "Loose Speculation Dementia".
    25 Mar 2014, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2662) | Send Message
     
    "I'll be happy when we get the first Gen3 tractor optimized."

     

    How's that coming?
    25 Mar 2014, 09:09 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30457) | Send Message
     
    We continue to progress, but we haven't made all the progress we hope to make.
    25 Mar 2014, 09:34 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2435) | Send Message
     
    Sure y'all pushing extra hard to get ready, but do get some sleep before you hit the road to Louisville, lest you end up something like this:

     

    http://bit.ly/1fXEBvT

     

    attributed to the train driver "nodding off" and perhaps some bad luck/unimaginative design.

     

    Lots of interesting study of the power of naps and productivity/creativity ... here's a start:

     

    http://bit.ly/1fXEDUu

     

    A few sleeerp cab "simulators?" :-)
    25 Mar 2014, 10:00 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18444) | Send Message
     
    03/24/2014: EOD stuff partially copied from blog (up now).
    # Trds: 79, MinTrSz: 90, MaxTrSz: 20000, Vol: 498290, AvTrSz: 6307
    Min. Pr: 0.1620, Max Pr: 0.1800, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.1692
    # Buys, Shares: 27 138956, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.1724
    # Sells, Shares: 52 359334, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.1679
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:2.59 (27.89% "buys"), DlyShts 132511 (26.59%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 36.88%

     

    The average of the lowest 20 VWAPs times 80% today is $0.0777 vs. $0.0773, $0.0769, $0.0767, $0.0766, $0.0766, $0.0765, $0.0764, $0.0764 and $0.0764 on prior days. 80% of today's VWAP is $0.1353 vs. $0.1363, $0.1339, $0.1354, $0.1376, $0.1361, $0.1284, $0.1285, $0.1250 and $0.1439 on prior days. These are potential prices for the next tranche of shares to the PIPErs.

     

    Today's low, high, VWAP, trade volume, and daily short sales moved -1.82%, 2.86%, -0.71%, 47.01% and 61.60% respectively. Price spread today was 11.11% vs. 6.06%, 4.87%, 12.84%, 10.43%, 11.05%, 6.33%, 16.67%, 8.34% and 44.19% on prior days.

     

    The low, high, close, VWAP, and volume continue looking like short-term consolidation. Yesterday ...

     

    The rest in the blog here.
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    25 Mar 2014, 09:26 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3104) | Send Message
     
    Axion "plans to release its results for the fourth quarter and year ended December 31, 2013 after the market closes in New York on Monday, March 31, 2014. Axion's management team will host a conference call to discuss the Company's financial results on Tuesday April 1, 2014 at 10:00 am ET.

     

    Conference Call:
    Participants should dial into the call ten minutes before the scheduled time using the following numbers: 1-877-300-8521 (USA) or +1-412-317-6026 (international) to access the call.

     

    Audio Webcast:
    There will also be a simultaneous live webcast through the Company's website, http://bit.ly/nG6x1f and selecting the investor tab. Participants should register on the website approximately ten minutes prior to the start of the webcast."
    25 Mar 2014, 01:26 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1165) | Send Message
     
    I hate that they always wait until the last possible minute to release earnings, then they start the conference call late and cut off questions early. It's just not good business for a company that will be hitting up the capital markets soon.
    25 Mar 2014, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3104) | Send Message
     
    ngs, I'd say take ur beef directly to the company where it might help, and add that a lot of other investors seem to feel the same way about wanting more CC time. One even said he'd pass a hat, and make the first, $100 contribution, to buy another 1/2 hr.
    25 Mar 2014, 03:00 PM Reply Like
  • big_bear
    , contributor
    Comments (54) | Send Message
     
    Year End Conference Call for AXPW is April 1st.

     

    http://on.mktw.net/1gy...
    25 Mar 2014, 01:29 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10182) | Send Message
     
    Car Companies Take Expertise in Battery Power Beyond the
    Garage

     

    http://nyti.ms/1fYdxg1
    25 Mar 2014, 01:30 PM Reply Like