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  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1341) | Send Message
     
    First and nothing to say...
    11 May, 12:10 PM Reply Like
  • Bylo-
    , contributor
    Comments (388) | Send Message
     
    Second and still lurking.
    11 May, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • john lowe
    , contributor
    Comments (11) | Send Message
     
    3rd and still lirking!
    11 May, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • obieephyhm
    , contributor
    Comments (1558) | Send Message
     
    made fourth . . .
    11 May, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • john lowe
    , contributor
    Comments (11) | Send Message
     
    After posting hastily, I noticed that I misspelled lurking. But it appears that lirking can mean jerking, so maybe that works too.
    11 May, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • Bylo-
    , contributor
    Comments (388) | Send Message
     
    Don't worry, all you jerking lirkers (lirking jerkers?) are always welcome!
    11 May, 02:29 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2093) | Send Message
     
    Hi Tim,
    Long time no see. I have missed your wit, wisdom and perspective.
    11 May, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1341) | Send Message
     
    Hey SD, not much to offer that hasn't already been said. Still waiting for a plan to materialize as the ship takes on more water (and passengers)...
    11 May, 03:30 PM Reply Like
  • john lowe
    , contributor
    Comments (11) | Send Message
     
    Thanks bylo. I found some encouragement in your post about your positive experience with a reverse split on concentrator 328.
    11 May, 04:04 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (731) | Send Message
     
    The 15th is within sight, so should be some progress report(s).
    11 May, 04:21 PM Reply Like
  • jcrjg
    , contributor
    Comments (172) | Send Message
     
    In the last concentrator Rick said that TG had received ~$5M over the last ten years. Is this correct? I thought TG salary was in the $200k per year range.
    11 May, 05:16 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    If you include the issue date value of the $3 shares he got as compensation and paid taxes on, the total is close to $4.5 million since 2005. By the time you account for the current value of the shares he never sold and the taxes he certainly paid, it's probably closer to $3 million over 9 years.

     

    When you compare Tom's total compensation from Axion with what he was used to earning as a self-employed elevator contractor, national labor contract negotiator and dealmaker, it's probably a 75% to 80% pay cut. Some of of the details that have fallen out of Tom's resume over the years were his gigs as (1) general partner of several real estate partnerships that owned multi-family and commercial properties; and (2) his time managing partner of a cable TV company that he sold to Com Cast.

     

    http://1.usa.gov/1ojYI0A
    11 May, 05:44 PM Reply Like
  • jcrjg
    , contributor
    Comments (172) | Send Message
     
    So what is his salary?
    11 May, 05:54 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/1ok0Rt1

     

    TG 2012 compensation = $400,715
    11 May, 06:02 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2322) | Send Message
     
    JP,

     

    Personally, I don't think it is realistic to assume TG is taking a 75-80% pay cut (that would imply he would of otherwise made near 20-25M these past 9 years; age 61-70).

     

    Heck, it would be nice to see him (and other insiders) buy some Axion stock. I'm not sure why he hasn't helped fund/loan the company if indeed we are talking about someone who was so prosperous in the past.

     

    Also, imho, there are plenty of semi-retired C level executives out there with very strong resumes who likely wouldn't mind sitting in the captain's chair for TG's salary.

     

    Overall, his salary isn't the main problem but rather its Axion's lack of Sales and PPS performance. 9 years is a long time to sit on an egg and wait for it to hatch.
    11 May, 09:13 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    In the battery industry a decade from science fair project to product is lightning fast. Over 95% of the companies that try fail within five years. Successfully developing the first major advance in lead acid chemistry since the 70s I'd an incredible accomplishment. Criticizing an executive for failing to sell a technology that was not advanced enough to sell until very recently seems unfair.
    11 May, 09:26 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2480) | Send Message
     
    On April 1, 2013, the Company renewed the Executive Employment Agreement with Thomas Granville as Chief Executive Officer. Pursuant to this agreement, Mr. Granville receives an annual salary of $380,000, an annual stipend of $38,000 and an annual car allowance of $9,000 for the period commencing April 1, 2013, and terminating March 31, 2016. Mr. Granville’s base salary is subject to annual review, and he is eligible for an annual bonus as determined by the compensation committee. Any such salary adjustment or bonus amount is on the basis of Mr. Granville’s and the Company’s performance. In addition, on June 29, 2010, Mr. Granville was granted a signing bonus of $270,000 and was paid on July 9, 2010. The Company also granted Mr. Granville an option to purchase 360,000 shares of our common stock at a price of $1.50 per share at a vesting rate of 10,000 shares per month through the term of the agreement. Mr. Granville is eligible to participate in any executive compensation plans adopted by the shareholders of the Company and the Company's standard employee benefit programs.
    11 May, 06:05 PM Reply Like
  • jcrjg
    , contributor
    Comments (172) | Send Message
     
    $400k is outrageous for a company in Axions position and it doesn't matter what he used to make. I don't mind them getting stock options that are priced to the current value but you can't take that much cash out of the business.
    11 May, 06:11 PM Reply Like
  • brianfscott
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    $400k is approx 8x the salary of an over the road truck driver. I am guessing it is 10 to 12x the salary of a line battery assembler. It does not seem outrageous to me compared to salaries of other "underperforming" CEO's; see Maggie Wilderotter of Frontier Communications.
    11 May, 06:30 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2480) | Send Message
     
    Interesting article on average CEO pay. Draw your own conclusions.

     

    The BLS report provides “employment and wage estimates by area and by industry for wage and salary workers in 22 major occupational groups,” including the category “chief executives.” In 2013, the BLS reports that the average pay for America’s 248,760 chief executives was only $178,400. The 200 S&P500 firms reported by USAToday represent only one out of every 1,243 firms in the country that have a CEO at the head, and that small sample of 200 would represent only 0.08% of American CEOs, or less than one-tenth of one percent of all CEOs. The larger sample of CEOs reported by the BLS gives us a much better understanding of “average CEO compensation.”

     

    http://bit.ly/1mNd9uC
    11 May, 10:07 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2480) | Send Message
     
    Of course, many young, risk-taking CEOs are running early stage startups and tech companies, and probably make even less than the average CEO as reported by the BLS, as Scott Drum points out to me in an email. Further, he comments that “They’re usually not in it for the salary. They’re in it for the payoff if things go well. If we reduce the size of the Big Payoff, don’t we affect the number of people trying to get there?” The fact that there are almost 250,000 ambitious CEOs making less than $200,000 today on average who are trying to someday be listed by USAToday as one of the top 200 highest-paid CEOs in the US is a sign of a dynamic, wealth-generating economy.
    11 May, 10:11 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    There are many who agree with you. I don't.
    11 May, 06:22 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    At least you cut the bonus until the company turns a corner! It doesn't go down well at all with frustrated shareholders and sends a "I don't really hold the interests of the company that close to heart" message to us...
    11 May, 06:27 PM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1443) | Send Message
     
    When Citigroup got in big trouble in 2008 the CEO gave himself a pay cut down to $1 per year for some time. That's what I call a show of good faith and shared sacrifice.
    11 May, 07:39 PM Reply Like
  • brianfscott
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    RK, thanks for your candid gloves off assessment of TG et al. Your posts have always been informative. I only too well understand the end of patience leading to the breaking point...

     

    While I am somewhat more skeptical about the whole AXION thesis (Where's the BEEF?!) and I think the RS terms stink (by not reducing the authorized but non-issued; "Hey just ask me, make a good case and I'll vote to increase the authorized, but why this attempt to sneak it through?), I am going to quote Richard Kinder to you: "You sell, I'll buy" And I have.

     

    I bet I bought some of your shares in the last two weeks. Best of everything to you!
    11 May, 06:43 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2093) | Send Message
     
    "Hey just ask me, make a good case and I'll vote to increase the authorized, but why this attempt to sneak it through?),

     

    If we are discussing it here, then I don't think anyone was trying to sneak anything through.
    11 May, 07:14 PM Reply Like
  • brianfscott
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    Such a significant decision (to in effect increase authorized but non-issued shares) should be separated and voted on it's own merits. It's a bullying tactic (if you don't vote for the RS, you are denying much needed mothers milk...)

     

    I think the reverse split and uplisting is great. I think the remaining authorized shares should be a reasonable multiple of the outstanding; 3x to 4x should be plenty for near and medium term needs. If they need more, they can ask. When have you heard of a management proposed shareholder vote failing?
    11 May, 07:23 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    I've always been fond of the middle ground, but without more information on go-forward financing needs I'd have a hard time suggesting a specific number.
    11 May, 07:55 PM Reply Like
  • Bylo-
    , contributor
    Comments (388) | Send Message
     
    I'm in full agreement with brianscott. Lets have a reverse split but reduce the number of authorized but non-issued shares to a more reasonable ratio. Like brianscott says, they can always ask for more.
    11 May, 07:46 PM Reply Like
  • ohboy
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    As you can see, I rarely comment, but I'll mention something that concerns me. Namely, that if TG has no "significant" sales to mention during the upcoming CC --- that a some of us long-time holders of this stock will jump ship. If so, it seems to me that will happen more due to negative comments here than anything. Certainly Axion's progress has been far, far, slower that what we expected but we are, indeed, closer than ever. If the RS isn't approved by us, what will have been gained? Sure, I see that without sales, the new financing's income to the company will dribble away to "keep the lights on", while leaving behind many more shares out there, and thereby diluting our investment. But that is a separate issue from the RS and up-listing. Let's not confuse the two.
    11 May, 08:39 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1462) | Send Message
     
    There are only two significant sources of negative comments here:
    (1) The lack of "significant sales"
    (2) The excess of post-split authorized shares

     

    Neither of these are in the control of shareholders. The first is in partly in control of Mr. Granville, the second is entirely at Mr. Granville's discretion.

     

    On account of the first, the second is being seen is extremely poor light by many shareholders, whether present, past or potential: more as rude bullying by some, more as a significant threat to the financial risk vs. benefit calculus by others.

     

    As you have noted, many have already indicated that they have trimmed or sold their positions on account of one or both of the afore-mentioned reasons. No one has suggested that their selling has anything to do with the negativity on this site. The negativity here is a consequence, not a cause.

     

    When Mr. Granville wants to make a positive impact, he has a very simple path by which to do so. He has chosen to take another path.

     

    I believe (as others do) that the RS in conjunction with sales and uplisting is good news. The weirdest part of this story is the authorized shares issue: This is completely unnecessary and at the same time is the most negative aspect we know of (no sales will be worse, obviously); it has almost single-handedly turned the RS into BAD news which now needs to be "gotten out of the way". WTH? Why does the BOD shoot themselves (and us) in the foot doing something so unnecessary, so obviously untoward? What is their motivation? It seems inscrutable to me. I have not seen a good explanation for this wholly unattractive distraction.

     

    It is going to be an interesting week.
    12 May, 08:15 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    Look at the numbers Edmund. The preliminary 14A was filed after the close on April 30th. Since then a total of 6.8 million shares have traded; 3.4 million on the sell side and 3.4 million on the buy side. That represents 1.5% of the total shares outstanding and what's shaping up as the lowest volume month since September. While we don't know for sure, some of that selling could be the PIPErs selling their residual inventories and any clean-up shares they got in early May.

     

    The bottom line is many have complained but the sellers have been few and far between.
    12 May, 08:27 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    In 40 years of reading financial news, I have never heard of a positive outcome to legacy (non-insider) stockholders in a reverse split. NEVER, except for the three examples that popped up on the Axion Concentrators recently.

     

    Every reverse split proposal always has lots of justifications why there will be a happy ending. In just about every reverse split I know and followed the price proceeded to decline to near pre-RS prices. Often, "This time is different."

     

    True confessions: I have not researched the three examples cited recently. They're a rather low priority for me now.

     

    I hope I'm wrong.
    12 May, 08:50 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1462) | Send Message
     
    Nor has the price moved, but this misses the point.

     

    Many of those who have indicated that they have sold or might sell (perhaps not having actually done so?)have done so for one of the two reasons I provided and not because of any negativity here. Even if it were on account of what they have read here as we have discussed the two causes.

     

    The real point was, and this continues to confound me, the inscrutability of the BOD decision to leave the authorized shares unadjusted as if to INVITE the negativity we see here.
    12 May, 09:05 AM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (649) | Send Message
     
    RK, I agree with your generalization. That said, very few RS proposals have been approved for companies with so little debt. Still, I agree with you in principle.

     

    Let me offer you an exception. Intuitive Surgical had a Reverse and I was (am) not an insider. I did very well. It may have been my best ever investment.

     

    Usually when I hear "RS" I split instead. I decided to hang with ISRG and it went well. This will be my second stick-around on the RS front. It might ruin my batting average.

     

    It will be an interesting game to watch. Expensive if I lose though . . . . :>)
    12 May, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    Edmund - All Axionistas know (by now) that the company/BOD/TG does not communicate well. The recent proposal continues the past behaviours.

     

    I refrain from spreading my non-complimentary opinion of those actions. Note, even though my earlier comment on selling was considered negative by many, the stock price is maintaining 14 cents today. The negativity and low stock is the result of Axion's actions. Negativity, mine or others, is having a minimal to no impact on the stock price.

     

    Of course, while the 3.4m shares purchased could be from bottom-fishing Axionistas (probably a good thing), it may be the "unrelated entities" acquiring/strengthening their foothold for a future swallowing.
    12 May, 09:20 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    "In just about every reverse split I know and followed the price proceeded to decline to near pre-RS prices."

     

    What time frame did it take to fall back? Not the next day or week or even year! Thus to blame the price fall on the RS is ridic!

     

    Every RS I've seen (not including uplistings which pushed the stock higher!) resulted in a drop upon effect, and then a bounce back after. Not necessarily back to where it was but not as devastating as some here make it out to be.

     

    Personally I found it easy to find examples were the RS had little effect and the company (and stock!) went up in the future.
    12 May, 09:47 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1462) | Send Message
     
    That's what I was saying, Rick.

     

    That and this: The "excess post-RS authorized shares" issue is wholly unnecessary and could easily be removed as a barrier to the RS voting and as a cause of negativity amongst shareholders, a number of whom have spoken up here. So why does this barrier remain? Why does the BOD insist on such an excess?
    12 May, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2480) | Send Message
     
    Consider the fact that the only news we have received from the company in the last couple months is the CFO leaving ... and then this R/S ... umm, really?
    12 May, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • raleigh731
    , contributor
    Comments (281) | Send Message
     
    All,
    I have said that I am not a fan of the reverse split, and am also not a fan of the authorized shares staying as they are. I also still feel that the authorized shares should be pared back to as much as 5X post split issued shares (25MM shares outstanding). At (say $5.sh post split), that would leave potential value of the outstanding shares at $125MM. That should be enough for current needs.

     

    On the post split share price, I believe that so many axionistas are so entrenched in this stock that the price will not fall much, and, as JP and others have said, could appreciate. A lot of Axionistas would have to sell for the price to drop and stay down. I look forward to the CC as I believe something will be unveiled. Not necessarily sales, but maybe the veil will be lifted on the 7 or 8 PC projects, or more news on NSC, or maybe the truth will come out on KIA. Here's hoping!
    12 May, 07:06 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    Ranma - A reverse split in a vacuum does nothing to the valuation; it is the same as exchanging pennies for dollar bills.

     

    However, a management that has so deprecated their stock that it needs a RS is likely to continue doing the same. Axion stock was over $4 in 2005 and 2006. With current CEO, the stock has lost 95% of its value. The current CEO is still BAU, proposing no changes, and holed up in his (new)castle not communicating. He now requests the shareholders to grant him the authority to sell hundreds of millions of shares shares at any price without shareholder review, which may represent yet another 50% to 90% loss of value to shareholders.

     

    TG's record is clear, as is the outcome. "Look at my record. Stick with me, and I promise to lose more money and reduce the value your shares!"

     

    If the RS was part of a real reorganization, with a new CEO and change in board, there could be real value. However, giving carte blanche to someone who in nine years has destroyed so much value and promises nothing new is embarrassingly stupid.

     

    TG must go. Now.
    13 May, 08:04 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2480) | Send Message
     
    Interestingly, this was the same sentiment expressed by the Rosewater principles last year. Coincidence?

     

    Given the present factual scenario, TG should be fighting to keep his job, not shareholders fighting to find out if there is really anything behind the curtain.
    13 May, 08:25 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (652) | Send Message
     
    Rick, I would think someone who's company had failed due to external forces like yours faced would have a little more understanding towards someone in TG's position.

     

    TG and his management team have kept Axion alive and in the hands of the shareholders through a tough ten years.

     

    First of all, most start ups fail.

     

    Second, they had a terrible start and had to go public to clean up a scam built around the new technology. JP has rehearsed this story recently in the concentrators.

     

    Third, there was no ready market for the product. The market is still developing and the batteries can't be sold until the customers have new machinery available for the product.

     

    Fourth, the company has had to withstand a huge market crash and a deep, extended recession.

     

    Fifth, the company has had to survive the exit of four large investors who normally would not have been candidates to exit.

     

    Sixth, the company has survived a PIPE financing.

     

    Seventh, the company has taken a crude technology and developed a process to mass produce it.

     

    Eighth, the company has two top tier companies who have tested and proclaimed the quality of the battery. At any moment NSC could roll out NS 999. BMW is still meeting with Axion and planning on a regular basis.

     

    Ninth, ePower has signed an exclusive contract with Axion to supply batteries for their trucks. The truck is about to be on the road in the hands of a real customer.

     

    Tenth, Axion is working with numerous customers to develop powercubes for grids. One has already been sold and we are told many more, larger ones are about to be unveiled.

     

    Axion has done well just to survive the many obstacles it has faced. Again, you of all people should realize that from your experience in a failed company.

     

    Yet Axion has so many possible markets now that any one of those markets could make Axion a viable company.
    13 May, 08:27 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    jveal -

     

    First, I know I have failed in a company (or two). I accept responsibility and don't blame the recession. Do you see ANY slightest tinge of a shadow of accepting responsibility in TG? Any effort to change, or even listen to change? Is "pivot" in his vocabulary? My life and career has had so many pivots I should have signed up for the Bolshoi Ballet. I fail, I learn, and do something different, and usually better.

     

    I am sure TG could not make your points as eloquently as you. Many of your points (PIPE financing, did not develop market due to NDAs, etc.) were self-caused by TG, however.

     

    "Yet Axion has so many possible markets now that any one of those markets could make Axion a viable company." My question: do you think TG is even slightly capable of successfully executing?

     

    My thesis is not that the company is bad, but the CEO is incompetent.

     

    TG must go. Now.
    13 May, 09:01 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (652) | Send Message
     
    Rick,

     

    If the things you appear to have assumed about TG are correct, he would probably need to go.

     

    I am frustrated by the nature of public companies that have to keep everything behind a wall of secrecy, especially when they are the small fish in the big pond. But I can only make my decisions and judgments based on what I know. I will give management the benefit of the doubt until I clearly know that management is the cause for all the delays.
    13 May, 09:19 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2480) | Send Message
     
    "I am frustrated by the nature of public companies that have to keep everything behind a wall of secrecy, especially when they are the small fish in the big pond. "

     

    This is a fallacy and only supported by those defending Axion's position. Axion has had many opportunities to allow information to get into the public domain, but has blocked it at every turn. Exhibit 1 - Axion's fight to keep the FOIA request redacted.

     

    With silence and terrible financings for years now, I am left to ask myself why?

     

    Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
    13 May, 09:46 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1211) | Send Message
     
    Rick said:
    "Do you see ANY slightest tinge of a shadow of accepting responsibility in TG? Any effort to change, or even listen to change? Is "pivot" in his vocabulary?"

     

    I find this to be a very convincing point. The best leaders acknowledge shortcomings and learn from their mistakes.
    13 May, 10:07 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3881) | Send Message
     
    jveal ... NDAs are dual use technology. They may be used to 1) deny competitors actionable information and 2) to hide management failures.
    13 May, 11:25 AM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1137) | Send Message
     
    @ Rick: I very much appreciate your perspectives here.

     

    More telling to me, however, is the responses to your comments which scream to me in no uncertain terms that I and other "supporters" have been the "dumb money" all along.

     

    Such is life. Luckily, this was always part of my "spec" money spread thinly across various accounts that I manage. It is still frustrating none the less, because I bought into it all (hook, line and sinker).

     

    I have the popcorn and soda ready for the CC on Friday (which will start late and be cut short) because for the first time, I will enjoy the entertainment value of Tom dancing and dodging pertinent questions.

     

    I guess if I made over 4 million in less than 9 years with no accountability, I'd have a spring in my steps too!
    13 May, 05:11 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    Occam - I assure you, my investment in Axion has punished me, too. I have not just been a spectator, until a few days ago.
    13 May, 05:55 PM Reply Like
  • Larry Meade
    , contributor
    Comments (99) | Send Message
     
    If all of you calling for the head of TG, along with unknown changes are so dissatisfied, sell your stock and move on. No one has a gun to your head to make you keep the stock.

     

    As I have said many times before, success for this company may be slow and several years ahead of us.
    The company needs to upgrade the investment market in which it operates to get better recognition and better terms for continued financing.

     

    There are never any guarantees. However, if I had a million dollars to contribute, I would because the PcB battery is a product which is needed now and in the future to perform an important function in the evolving technology to lengthen the time we will have access to petroleum products.

     

    No more, no less.
    13 May, 08:40 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1909) | Send Message
     
    It appears to me your judgement on TG is centered around the incorrect notion that he has had nine years to sell the battery and make a smashing success of the company. The truth is they have been an R&D company for eight of those nine years.

     

    Over the past three years on this blog I have seen investor after investor fall because their investing thesis was based on the idea that Axion is a seasoned commercially producing energy storage company. Their is nothing in their history that should give anyone that idea. The only reason to invest now is to make a bet on the chance they will become what you think they already are. If I thought they were commercially producing this product for a decade and it was a product already out there in the market and this was the current state of affairs, I would be pissed too.

     

    The truth is TG has been at the helm of an R&D stage company nine years and now that they finally have the product right and capable of being commercialized you want him out. It's like Peter Dinklage at the fight of Black Water No one wants to give hime credit for saving Westeros and now they want him hanged (for Game Of Thrones buffs.)
    13 May, 09:00 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3881) | Send Message
     
    "If all of you calling for the head of TG, along with unknown changes are so dissatisfied, sell your stock and move on. No one has a gun to your head to make you keep the stock."

     

    Thanks for sharing your opinion. I have a very different point of view, one formed on analysis of perceived risk/reward ratios for two different scenarios going forward from this point.

     

    You propose immediate recognition of the full extent of losses incurred over the past six years and redeployment elsewhere of residual capital proceeds. Axion Power, with a change CEO/Chairman and business model targeting a much broader range of markets and customers presents a much better risk/reward profile than alternative investments presently presenting.

     

    Continuing BAU at Axion Power with Thomas Granville calling the shots is almost certainly a prescription for continuing management paychecks by running the corporate share printing press and dilution of existing shareholder equity.
    14 May, 12:58 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    If the founders of Axion, like Averill who are the biggest shareholders, are happy we TG's compensation level, who are we to argue? They are the ones getting diluted the most, yet see no issue.
    14 May, 01:40 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    Welcome back jakurtz. It's beginning to feel like old home week.
    14 May, 06:31 AM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    Very well stated Edmond.

     

    Why indeed! Why does TG offer reasons for the RS but not a single reason for wanting this huge increase in the authorised shares. Why does he somehow believe that we should trust him and this BoD to do what's right? It certainly can't be their track record to date.

     

    It is irrational.
    15 May, 08:41 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    PbC Believer wrote: "It is irrational."

     

    Not from TG's point of view. If he does not have millions of new shares and does not have a new battle plan, he most likely knows his future employment will be very limited.

     

    The present incentive for TG is to maximize time receiving salary. If he can stay in office longer, he has hope some miracle may happen, either for the company or for himself. If the company gets swallowed, he may be able to swing a payout to go away.

     

    His options and stock are so far out of the money they effectively don't exist. His age, and, if we believe his resume, his financial situation let him retire; this is his last gig.

     

    A huge authorized stock overhead in Axion's present financial condition can enable a swallowing, intentional or otherwise. From an ego point of view, he could settle for a "I sold the company" a whole lot easier than "I drove the company bust".

     

    Financial jiggling to get a NASDAQ listing has nothing to do with an operational or strategic plan to make the company successful. There have been no intimations from New Castle of any strategic change, just business as usual. BAU for the last five years (how long I owned stock) has not been successful by any of my measures. About my least important metric has been stock price, although it is the most visible disaster. (Some will disagree, of course.)

     

    Axion has a CEO with a dismal record and strong antipathy to change. His incentives are BAU and just hang in there as long as possible. I see no possible success for Axion with TG at the helm.

     

    TG must go. Now.
    15 May, 09:05 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2480) | Send Message
     
    Very sad scenario.

     

    Given the factual scenario and a CEO that doesn't communicate (all the supposedly good things going on behind the curtain) in the face of such dire financial consequences for his company and stockholders, I can't say that I disagree. But since I see no reasonable possibility that the BOD will replace TG, I nevertheless still "hope" he can right the ship. The other issue is bringing in an outsider to take over and a transition process which Axion cannot afford.

     

    RK - Who would you propose take over the CEO position? Do you think Vani would be a viable candidate?
    15 May, 09:14 AM Reply Like
  • RuggedDC
    , contributor
    Comments (182) | Send Message
     
    Rick, it's regrettable that you are posting this worthy, insightful, thought-provoking comment in fading APC #331 instead of the current issue.

     

    Though never having remarked until now, I have long appreciated your insights, both technical and managerial, posted to the APC.

     

    And in light of the recent set of discussions, I've now learned much of your personal history, which represents a fascinating set of experiences.

     

    I dunno: what is "BAU"?
    15 May, 09:24 AM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    Rick - this is presented to us actually by the BoD. What is your take on their motivation making the RS more objectionable than it should be and why do the independent members of this BoD not demand that a reasonable explanation be given to the shareholders, that's their job as independent directors to do so.
    15 May, 09:26 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    BAU = Business As Usual
    15 May, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    Rugged - BAU stands for Business As Usual. Sorry, not trying to be obtuse.

     

    I get tired of being repetitive, since it is annoying to others. If you liked my post, why don't you copy it to the present APC and ask for comments.
    15 May, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    I find independent directors generally aren't, especially when the CEO is Chairman.

     

    However, rather unsettling, Axionpower.com does not list TG as chairman. Who is chairman? http://bit.ly/1g8Ap2U

     

    However, this lists TG as Chairman and CEO:
    http://bit.ly/1g8Ap2X

     

    I get the creeps when the company's website is materially wrong, or at least in contradiction to SEC filings.
    15 May, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    Rick, That kind of sloppy is certainly not an indication of good governance. David DiGiacinto was added to the board as an independent director and seems to have been induced to do so with $40,000 worth of warrants which of course the other independent directors also received as a reward for their sterling past performance in looking out after our interests. Trego was also recently added to the BoD but how independent he is may be questionable given that he was the CFO hired by TG. There have been several independent director departures over the years with perhaps the most noteworthy investor/director being the departure of Averill after being on the board since day one.

     

    The SEC places a huge reliance up independent directors to assure good governance but who ever holds these directors accountable for doing their job?
    15 May, 10:39 AM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (80) | Send Message
     
    mr believer, shareholders do, through their votes.

     

    if someone doesn't think there are enough votes for change, and change is crucial to their investment thesis, then they should obviously avoid an investment.

     

    this investment 101 stuff is getting me depressed about the competence on some of the investors in axion. who would invest in a penny stock without knowing all these things already? low priced pre and low revenue growth stories should be the domain of the savvy, not the newbie. to me.

     

    no wonder why so many get wiped out. they don't know what they're doing. even those that do often take bigs hits with these high risk stocks. layer on top of that, incompetence, and the investment proposal gets wacky-bad.

     

    hence my handle. buyer, know thy weaknesses.
    15 May, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    Gamble, You seem to have missed my point or perhaps I have misunderstood your comment.

     

    So let me restate the question; "Who's job is it to police the performance of independent directors and if it is not the job of we investors then tell me why some bureaucrat would give a tinkers dam about negligence on the part of independent directors?"

     

    Can you give me some examples of Independent Directors who have been fined or jailed for not doing their job? Hell, we as shareholders are the ones paying for huge D&O insurance policies to make certain that they need not worry about failing to do their jobs.

     

    JP recently said that the NASDAC would assure that the BoD did its job of looking out for us - really??? - here I was thinking that the SEC had that responsibility and it was the SEC that was overseeing AXPW right now. I foolishly thought that the SEC enforces the regulations (including Sarbanes-Oxley), not the NASDAC.

     

    So, where's the complaint box for independent director negligence and who's reading the complaints and what have they ever done about complaints to date? It is the BoD that is supposed to hold management accountable and if they don't the shareholders complaint under the law is with the that BoD for not doing so.

     

    Gamble, do you now understand this fundamental question?
    15 May, 12:34 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17246) | Send Message
     
    PbC Believer: Keep in mind the NASDAQ is an SRO.

     

    HardTpLove
    15 May, 12:40 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    Is that a good thing? I hate to stand.
    15 May, 12:51 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17246) | Send Message
     
    PbC Believer: SRO = Self-Regulatory Organization. IIRC, most (all?) of the major exchanges are such. FINRA is one also. maybe other of which I'm not aware.

     

    HardToLove
    15 May, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    When it gets down to pipsqueak companies like Axion, the SEC is more a filing cabinet than an enforcer.

     

    Be late in your paperwork, you get in trouble. Beyond that, unless somebody does something so outrageous it makes the news, zzzzz.

     

    As you climb the financial ladder, more people look harder at you. We are presently right at the "radar line", not below it, but barely above it.
    15 May, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    PbC Believer> I have never said that the Nasdaq provides oversight of independent directors. I said that all Nasdaq listed companies must comply with Nasdaq corporate governance rules that require a stockholder vote for any of the following stock transactions:

     

    • Acquisitions where the issuance equals 20% or more of the pre-transaction outstanding shares, or 5% or more of the pre-transaction outstanding shares when a related party has a 5% or greater interest in the acquisition target;
    • Issuances resulting in a change of control;
    • Equity compensation;
    • Private placements where the issuance equals 20% or more of the pre-transaction outstanding shares at a price less than the greater of book or market value.

     

    Collectively those provisions provide a huge degree of protection for stockholders that are worried about an effectively unlimited stock certificate printing press.

     

    Allegations of director negligence are very serious matters and if you have any proof whatsoever you should discuss it with your legal counsel.
    15 May, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    JP - So that's your idea of how shareholder grievances with BoD performance should be handled: "... discuss it with your legal counsel."

     

    Only a lawyer would come up with that suggestion as a solution to a real problem in some of America's corporate board rooms. :-)

     

    Sorry to hear that there is no SEC shareholders compliant box for such matters. See your lawyer? How sad is that.
    15 May, 02:47 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    Complaining about independent directors of public companies is like complaining about elected officials.

     

    If you don't like the way one performs, your only option is to try and vote the bum out of office next time he stands for election. If enough people agree with your position, you just might win.

     

    As a lawyer I deal with the system as it exists, not as I think it ought to exist. I'm sorry I don't have more insight to offer on a topic that's obviously important to you.
    15 May, 02:55 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    JP, trying to understand your comment.

     

    If the reverse split proposal is passed as presented, there may be very roughly 10m issued shares and 350m authorized shares. Exact number depends on reverse split ratio, and other stuff. Are these numbers approximately accurate?

     

    Your 4th bullet states that 20% share vote is necessary to sell stock below the greater of market or book.

     

    1) Does this mean the BoD could sell 1.5m shares every month or so, at any price, without shareholder approval? I am not arguing "should or would", just trying to understand if legally permissible.

     

    2) Does this mean the BoD could sell 11m shares at one cent over the current share market price (assuming it is still above book value), if they need the money. After that, shareholder votes probably won't be meaningful, as legacy stockholders are a minority.

     

    If for whatever reason Axion does not get listed by NASDAQ, how are the rules different?
    15 May, 03:25 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    It's been a long time since I've dug into the details of the Nasdaq corporate governance rules and I have no particular desire to go rooting through the complexities for the sake of a casual conversation between friends.

     

    With that disclaimer, an off-the-cuff answer to your question would be "it depends entirely on the facts and circumstances."

     

    1) In theory there wouldn't be a problem if a hypothetical company did a series of unrelated offerings where it sold 1.5 million shares to independent and unrelated counterparties. If they did the offerings through the same broker dealer or had investors that were repeat buyers there probably would be a problem.

     

    From a regulator's perspective the question is whether a particular transaction is "discrete" or "part of a series of related transactions."

     

    2) A company could theoretically sell 11 million shares at a penny over market (and book) but those shares would need to go into the hands of several independent and unrelated investors because the rules (a) treat related parties as a unity for regulatory purposes and (b) treat an acquisition of more than 20% of a public company as "Control."

     

    The rules for OTC companies are a good deal looser. They still have to comply with SEC corporate governance requirements, but that's a lower bar to clear.
    15 May, 03:51 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    Thank you, JP.
    15 May, 03:53 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    I didn't want to seem like I was brushing you off Rick, but that's the kind of question that pays for the roof over my head and the beans on my plate.
    15 May, 04:10 PM Reply Like
  • futurecartsla
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    @PbC Believer

     

    "Sorry to hear that there is no SEC shareholders compliant box "

     

    There is an SEC complaint box (with examples of the sort of things that can be reported):

     

    http://1.usa.gov/viWoSv

     

    "Can you give me some examples of Independent Directors who have been fined or jailed for not doing their job? "

     

    The old CEO (Gary R.) of ACTC is probably going to get fined for unregistered stock sales, as an example, and ACTC is traded on the stinky pinky's.. You don't get fined for doing a poor job, you have to actually violate laws..
    15 May, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    No problem, JP. All I wanted was the off-the-cuff, to make sure I had not grossly misunderstood something. Didn't even occur to me it was a brush off.
    15 May, 06:22 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (967) | Send Message
     
    jeez Rick...let it go.

     

    You were always a value add technically, but your emotions are over the top.
    Many lost a lot of money...(me included)...deal with the cards dealt.
    We own our own decisions.
    15 May, 07:18 PM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (80) | Send Message
     
    mr pbc believer, sorry for my late response.

     

    mr petersen covered the matter very well (for free!), imo.
    15 May, 07:41 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    Magounsq, It's an appropriate respectful exchange that's best not to stand in the middle of unless you can add to the information being bantered back and forth. Since I'm learning, it's OK by me.
    15 May, 11:50 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2768) | Send Message
     
    I was watching a P&D in action once.
    Some of the officers ended up with jail time. The "owner" (owned most of the shares) was no longer officially active and he escaped.
    It seemed clear to us watching he had planned it but he was a securities lawyer and probably managed to avoid actually doing the lawbreaking himself.
    16 May, 09:34 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (967) | Send Message
     
    ii

     

    "...unless you can add to the information..."...?
    16 May, 10:11 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1211) | Send Message
     
    Viridity Energy is mentioned in the following document:

     

    "FACT SHEET: President Obama Announces Commitments and Executive Actions to Advance Solar Deployment and Energy Efficiency

     

    Private and Public Sector Commitments and Executive Actions Will Create Jobs and Cut Carbon Pollution
    . . .
    Viridity Energy will drive the creation of 300 MW of new battery storage for solar and other renewables by 2017. This will help make our electric grid more robust and efficient, while enabling it to accept more power from solar and other renewable energy sources."
    http://1.usa.gov/1mN7K6D
    11 May, 09:01 PM Reply Like
  • brianfscott
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    Ohboy, I find the negative comments here helpful, occasionally post some myself, yet I have continued to increase my holdings.

     

    As I think RA and others have stated, an uplisting to NASDAQ is not a given following a RS. Do I think TG and the BOD have a proper fiduciary outlook for legacy shareholders?

     

    Not sure, due to the unreasonable demand to vote for the RS while leaving the authorized share count at 350,000,000.

     

    If I had lost total confidence in TG and the BOD, then the logical decision would be to sell. I am not there yet, but getting close.

     

    This potential 7700% possible watering of the stock is not a confidence building move, at this time.

     

    A signed contract with NSC/BMW/KIA Tomorrow would change my thinking entirely!

     

    (Unfair, you say? Can't hold a gun to customers heads? ) Show me the money or quit leading me on.
    11 May, 09:02 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    I hope all the folks protesting the high number of post-split authorized shares have taken the time to call or email Axion's investor relations. This is something they can easily fix before the vote goes off.
    12 May, 04:14 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    Someone just ask TG about the authorized shares during the CC, rather than continue beating a dead horse here.
    11 May, 11:45 PM Reply Like
  • brianfscott
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    Ranma; Great Idea! Assuming the conference call starts on time and does not cut off pesky questioneers?
    12 May, 12:31 AM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (162) | Send Message
     
    Why is everyone obsessing with authorised share count anyway. As JP stated it is not uncommon to have a large share count and it would only be required when nessessary. If BOD and management really want to screw legacy holders then there are plenty more ways to do that. The purpose of the rs split is to get a nas listing. That was stated by TG.

     

    As for the CC. There is more speculation about this cc than any I can recall. Just to refresh memories, TG defected a question about sales progress during the last CC with his 44 day speech. He would have been expecting the question certainly. TG was certainly stalling for something. TG was 100% in my mind expecting to have something substantial to say either before or during the next CC. I translate his comments as "this cc has come a little too early. So I dont want to address sales now. Ask me again in 44 days and I am certain we will have a more complete report."

     

    My guess is a lowering of nda rather then sales. A decent update on a mou would be much more bullish than the sale os another cube I guess.

     

    Anyone counted 44 days on the calendar? When are we expecting CC?

     

    Apologies for spelling. Typing on phone in bath with fat fingers.
    12 May, 06:39 AM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (162) | Send Message
     
    Am I correct in thinking 44 days is this Thursday? Friday at the latest? Should get a announcement of when earnings will be released either today or tomorrow maybe.
    12 May, 09:40 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    The 44 days statement was made on April 1, so the CC on May 16 will be day 45.
    12 May, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • isthisonebetter
    , contributor
    Comments (228) | Send Message
     
    ngs, April fools.
    12 May, 05:01 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (731) | Send Message
     
    Every schedule "slips" at Axion. :p
    12 May, 06:36 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    Yes, TG indicated he would be looking forward to giving us updates on the 44 day. What about the 45th day?
    12 May, 06:53 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (652) | Send Message
     
    TG is giving us the written report on the 44th day and his verbal commentary on the 45th. :-))
    12 May, 07:06 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    Jveal, True. But his verbal fog is where we contrive the most supposition. I think Axionista's could put Picasso to shame after a cc if we could just put our thoughts on TG's yammering to canvas!
    12 May, 07:29 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    Some day, over the...

     

    "Now Oncor, Texas’ largest power transmission company, is joining the ranks investing in battery technology as the industry’s next big thing."

     

    "“The math isn’t there yet, but the companies know they all need to get there,” he said. “We’re probably five years away” from wide-scale adoption. “It sounds like a long time, but for our business that’s pretty quick.”"

     

    Oncor is testing battery technology on grid

     

    http://bit.ly/1hH7rlW
    12 May, 06:45 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    NDA.

     

    Hawaii confronts 'green' energy's bugaboo: batteries

     

    "Battery companies are already making a go of it in the utility business. With 130 employees, Pittsburgh-based Aquion Energy this year started commercial production of batteries that allow utilities to better manage their grids. It says it is selling its technology to California and Florida utilities that it cannot name because of confidentiality agreements."

     

    http://bit.ly/1ja6oR5
    12 May, 07:18 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    Well, at least Axion isn't the only one hit with NDAs. Maybe it's not all TG's idea as purported.
    12 May, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    GMC Sierra, Chevrolet Silverado Getting Updates Soon

     

    "On the fuel economy front, it's easy to see what's in store for pickup customers: the addition of Stop-Start technology, which will prove especially useful in city traffic by shutting the engine off at the lights or when stuck in a traffic jam."

     

    http://bit.ly/1hHe4ot
    12 May, 08:28 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (781) | Send Message
     
    Is there anybody else wondering why AXPW has not put out their quarterly report and CC notice yet? I always remembered them putting it out the prior week at least!
    12 May, 09:38 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    Last minute deals being done no doubt.
    12 May, 09:40 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    The Form 10-Q is due at the SEC on Thursday the 15th. So I'm looking for a conference call on Thursday or Friday of this week.
    12 May, 09:47 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    RBruin, Yes, it is not normal. Last year the cc for Q1 was on the 16th of May.
    12 May, 10:06 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    I just received notification of the earning release and CC.

     

    Axion Power International, Inc. (OTC QB: AXPW), the developer of advanced lead-carbon PbC® batteries and energy storage systems, announced plans to release its results for the first quarter ended March 31, 2014 after the market closes in New York on Thursday, May 15, 2014. Axion's management team will host a conference call to discuss the Company's financial results on Friday, May 16, 2014 at 10:00 am ET.
    12 May, 11:52 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    Rick, Thanks. Pretty standard earnings release and cc timing.
    12 May, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • raleigh731
    , contributor
    Comments (281) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Rick.
    12 May, 07:11 PM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (80) | Send Message
     
    while everyone reads the various comments, please keep in mind a few things:

     

    1) the motivations of the posters, and therefore what they choose to mention. i wrote a comment about the various categories in the previous concentrator. since there are no shorts, the at times overwhelming number of repetitive negative posts are from those trying to talk the price down to add or from those who are angry with their losses. both are completely understandable, to a degree, anyway. but both are damaging to the longs.

     

    2) most investors would probably say that the vast majority of companies that try to take an idea from concept to successful commercialization, fail. so by its very nature, we longs think "this time is different." that's how you make 10, 20 baggers. by finding the diamond in the rough that most investors reject. if it were easy, the outsized potential gains would not be there.

     

    3) for every guy selling, there has been a buyer. for every flame out and pipe share sold, there has been a ruggeddc, patrick young, or sooner. while i strongly think that all the excess negative talk is keeping a lot of new money away, and therefore is damaging to the longs, at least we've been going sideways recently.
    12 May, 10:08 AM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (162) | Send Message
     
    GambleAholic> just a short note. Please don't take it the wrong way. I came here from a background of yahoo message board postings. You can still see the tripe that is being posted on the axion yahoo board. When I arrived here I came out all guns blazing so to speak. Hopefully I have now learned that the posters here know 1000% more than I do about this stock. Most have followed it in depth for years. Many are experienced engineers who probably know as much about batteries as the AXPW management. We also have obsessive charting guys on the board who watches every minute trade going through. Not to mention JP.

     

    Visiting the yahoo message boards is a bit like watching a football game. There is a "for" group and an "against" group cheering as loudly as possible. Very soon after joining this concentrator I learnt that this board is not about taking sides (well some are in denial about bad news). It is the seeking-alpha equivalent of The X Files. The truth is out there.

     

    I post less than I used to here because I learn much more from just reading. I have followed Axion for 5 years and listed to most CC's so I feel I can contribute to conversations about how TG's mind is working. But, and I think most axionistas would agree, I would not want negative comments removed. I am hard pressed to remember an unfounded negative comment about this stock on this board. And likewise there is very limited unfounded pumping of the stock.

     

    I hope that the board remains exactly as it is. Even the occassional rant is useful as it helps axionistas understand the mortal of the huge private investor base AXPW has.

     

    Anyway, just my opinion. And three cheers for the Axion Power Host. hiphip...
    12 May, 10:31 AM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (80) | Send Message
     
    mr dance, thank you for your reply. i think a balanced blog is the way to go. which means that excess posts either way are bad.

     

    i was a lurker for a long time. looks like the blog swings from excess positive posts to excess bad. we're now in the latter. wanted to help make people aware of that.

     

    why do i care? because the excess negative posts are not only hurting the posters' wallets (unless they're out and still posting) but mine, too. this blog is THE place for retail investors to find out about the company. it is extremely important to the stock price. every potential investor scared away by the dark tone of the blog means a lower price than what could be. impossible to quantify, which is why i am about the only one talking about this negative effect. but it is not only real, but huge, i believe.

     

    i look forward to a better, healthier balance.
    12 May, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4419) | Send Message
     
    >GambleAholic ... I believe I disagree with you nearly to the extreme. I don't think this APC series moves the stock more than a miniscule iota.

     

    Axionistas seem to be a loose confederation of bottom-feeders with ambitions of fast upward moving stock prices but no willingness to be the one to lead the charge. Many reasons for that, not least is the deluge of shares from horror financing and I see that as managements fault. Another is I don't think Axionistas represent enough financial strength to support corporate growth.

     

    For whatever the actual truth may be we are not a group, like the Tesladors, that believe the product, stock & company are going the the moon & beyond. We wait for new money and real business fundamentals in a company no one has ever heard about with a product no one knows exists or what it is good for. We don't trade up among ourselves and outside the community no one cares.

     

    What is said here has little bearing on anything at all.
    12 May, 11:08 AM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (80) | Send Message
     
    thank you for your reply mr drich.

     

    like you said, we completely disagree on the value of this blog to the share price.

     

    i think without this blog the stock price would be way, way less. something like under a penny. the pipe selling itself would have completely crushed the price without a ton of retail investors coming here as a major part of their investigation. and there was the 2012 deal dumpers before that.

     

    there is simply no other place, especially now, that even comes close to giving current and potential investors the wealth of information and investor tone that they need to make decisions. consider it THE clearinghouse for axpw investment investigation. maybe yahoo used to be helpful. it isn't anymore and hasn't been for awhile. we all know the company doesn't give us nearly enough. mr petersen's writings, while very helpful, are infrequent now and were mostly positive, and they are all easily obtained through this blog anyway. there are no analysts that cover the stock (maybe we'll get one or more with the uplisting). not one. so no price support from them. even the recent financings were agented, which means no price support.

     

    of course some investors don't use this blog at all in their decisions. i think that is a small minority.

     

    i think this blog has been great, overall. no way in the world i would be an investor in axpw without it. i can't get all the information i need anywhere else. no way i am alone.
    12 May, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1462) | Send Message
     
    That's a bit pessimistic, IMO, DRich. Not the blog impact part, I agree with your comments on that.

     

    I've been buying steadily for two years, two months and two weeks precisely because I believe the Axion PbC has great potential (I crack myself up). I'll make that case any time. I am very bullish on "our" supercabattery.

     

    We don't need a reverse split. We need sales. AFAIK, Tom has sales lined up, at least he said he had them, and expects more, at least he said he expects more, so that wouldn't surprise me as much as any announcement that he doesn't.

     

    And if he has sales, then he's going to need quality financing that he (or the BOD) doesn't feel they can get without uplisting.

     

    He's also not going to get a good deal without sales.

     

    So they know they have sales and want a good deal. Simple and straight-forward enough, right?

     

    Except for the monkey wrench, the excess so-called "authorized" shares being magically wafted into existence. This maneuver twists the logic. Since I don't understand it, it casts a dark pall over the whole story.
    12 May, 11:33 AM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1443) | Send Message
     
    DRich> Concur. APC is like a kiddie pool in size. The market for AXPW is like an olympic pool currently with maybe ~$100,000 of volume in a day. It's destiny is to be a pond or lake with millions of dollars of volume trading per day.

     

    We're not the ones to take it there. We're all waiting for the crowd and the big boys to figure out what a revolutionary battery the PbC is.

     

    Things said on APC probably can push the price a wee bit but only because AXPW is such a fragile stock trading tiny volumes in an illiquid market with big spreads. I think APC comments don't often cause readers to sell their whole position but they probably do affect adding or dropping a few shares.

     

    In my trading block I am more influenced by price movements themselves than any commentary on APC. APC comments are about fundamentals mostly.
    12 May, 11:36 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4419) | Send Message
     
    >Edmund Metcalfe ... OK, I'll go along with the idea that the RS should never have been necessary and to that end Sales are/were the key. From just casual observation we should all know that major Cash Flow Positive generating sales are not in the offing.

     

    Personally, I don't see this "authorized" share count thingy y'all are worried about as any big deal. Do I think the shares pool is too big post RS? ... Yes. Yet, I'm not going to worry about management directly & immediately abusing it and until I've made up my mind just what financing and (hopefully) uplisting will be used for I'll not worry. I don't yet believe Axion is a scam. There is an air of desperation associated with the RS and if it works out that all Axion can and will do is just keep the doors open with the same nothing going on and more financing, I'll view all this and the huge authorization in an entirely different light as bottom of the barrel desperation and wish the next owner of the technology better luck.

     

    Time is growing short in point of view but I don't see Axion as having hit the iceberg quite yet.
    12 May, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1443) | Send Message
     
    IIRC usually when someone on APC posts "I'm outta here, I sold all my shares" the reason given is either the lack of sales or loss of faith in the CEO to take Axion across the goal line. I don't recall anybody ever saying that due to an opinion expressed on APC they've sold out. Not to say it's never happened but I think people here for the most part base their major buy/sell decisions on what comes out of New Castle not what comes out of APC.
    12 May, 12:39 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4419) | Send Message
     
    >Retired Aviator ... To which I wholeheartedly agree.
    12 May, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (939) | Send Message
     
    "That's how you make 10, 20 baggers. by finding the diamond in the rough that most investors reject. if it were easy, the outsized potential gains would not be there."

     

    I believe there is only one explanation for the stock chart. Logarithmic decay where price = 1/(x) and x is time. The driver of the stock price since ~2009 has been the passage of time. Many investors simply ran out of patience or never had any in the first place (PIPE). What are we waiting for? The OEM design win, a NSC launch, a utility-scale energy storage win. Barring any failure to perform, and Ed Buiel, whose eminent expertise on the matter confirms my own understanding that lead-carbon additives and ultrabattery are no better than any other good agm, that PbC has better performance and 4x the life of AGM, and that long-cycle life lead-acid is the holy grail of battery tech. What little info we have shows the battery continues to meet or exceed all performance targets, just have to wait a little longer for the payoff.
    12 May, 12:53 PM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (80) | Send Message
     
    without this site, i believe so many new investors would have skipped over an investment, that the price would have collapsed to oblivion. there has been no other place to get anywhere close to the helpful information that is commented here, linked here, etc. of course this is not the sole source of information, but as the clearinghouse, it is by far the best source.

     

    who else would the 2012 deal investors and the pipers and the retail bailers have sold to? some imaginary tutes? no way on earth. those guys have long left the building. they don't buy penny stocks in the aftermarket. if they get involved at all, it's in a placement with the company. and they don't get in unless they think there's enough liquidity to get out. so they look at volumes and see what retail is thinking (which means here), as they know they can't rely on another tute to buy what they're flipping out. those tutes would only be trying to do the same thing. these guys don't dink around.

     

    take away one leg of a tripod, and it falls over. i can't even imagine a typical investor deciding to buy if they had to rely on what was left if this site was gone. way too hard to investigate adequately. too many other places for ones money that would be easier to investigate.

     

    don't take this the wrong way, but it's kinda funny that i have to argue that this blog has significant value. plain as day to me. to each his own, though, i guess.
    12 May, 01:01 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    DRich wrote "I don't yet believe Axion is a scam."

     

    There are several ways to interpret your statement. Usually scam means purposely, knowingly fraudulent activity, often to bilk investors, customers, or whomever. Typically this would be based on non-existent product, or product falsely labeled.

     

    I don't think anyone on this board, even the most critical or negative, believe Axion is that type of scam. PbC batteries exist, and they are somewhat well documented about their characteristics, especially the rapid recharge and partial SOC abilities.

     

    Another form of scam is that senior management is unlawfully diverting company assets. Again, I don't think anyone on this board believes TG is sending money to the Caymans or any other financial chicanery.

     

    What some/many people believe is that TG has been incompetent as CEO of Axion, and has been responsible for disastrous financing, lack of sales, excessive secrecy, over-restricted distribution, lack of transparency, loss of key personnel, etc. Incontestably TG has not met expectations of anyone on this board for communication.

     

    However, none of the above is indicative of "scam". Given his Axion track record over the last nine years, some/many shareholders are very concerned that his request for a shockingly huge increase in authorized shares is likely to bring ruin to the company (or at least to its legacy stockholders), and he and the BOD need no shareholder consent. His own track record does not build trust in his leadership.

     

    His prior business career is irrelevant; investors are looking at his past nine years at this helm. Negotiating elevator contracts apparently has not been a useful background for running a new tech startup.

     

    I don't believe Axion is a scam; and I don't think you ever will, either. However, I don't think Axion has any chance of returning value to legacy shareholders until he has been replaced.
    12 May, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    There are some who buy/sell based on the APC, and there are some who don't. Opinions on this will vary depending on who the person is.

     

    Of course, knowing this, my opinion is that the APC does affect buys, maybe even beyond retail. Almost every one of us here was long after reading the APC.

     

    I'm not saying we should only post bullish news, but we definitely should not beat dead horses.
    12 May, 01:12 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1909) | Send Message
     
    Just one comment Rick. I appreciate your continuing posts. You write: "What some/many people believe is that TG has been incompetent as CEO of Axion, and has been responsible for disastrous financing, lack of sales, excessive secrecy, over-restricted distribution, lack of transparency, loss of key personnel, etc."

     

    In your own $100M endeavor you favored a different approach and a large corporation saw what you were doing and told you point blank you wont be doing it anymore and succeeded in running you out within just a couple of years. Perhaps, TG's approach at keeping this company progressing is favorable to the outcome that your approach brought. Just an observation.

     

    The one thing I like about the company is TG and his ability to keep the company going after nine years of considerable adversity.
    12 May, 01:35 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    jakurz - The primary energy business is the largest business on earth, with trillions of dollars. The $100m was "chump change" for the investor; he had just sold some assets for several billion. Just our pilot plant needed $117m, and that was far below economic scale. However, I knew if I had a fierce $100b enemy, our investor was not about to do battle either at $100m or $2b. I knew we had multiple possible roadblocks from Washington, and had insignificant clout to remove them. There was no doubt in my mind the company could make those roadblocks insurmountable.

     

    This is totally different than Axion and the secondary energy market. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about Mr. Granville. Have a nice day.
    12 May, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (731) | Send Message
     
    "told you point blank you wont be doing it anymore and succeeded in running you out within just a couple of years."

     

    The difficulty in getting sales makes one think that there is some of this going on with the legacy battery companies.
    If we can keep you off the market, people will have no choice but to buy our "good enough" product.
    12 May, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    "The difficulty in getting sales makes one think that there is some of this going on with the legacy battery companies."

     

    You certainly mean what Exide did to Axion! Luckily, the OEMs make battery purchase decisions and want to encourage competition.
    12 May, 02:11 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    greentongue - I don't think anyone with $100b has confronted Axion with "We know your product is really great. We are going to destroy you, as well as anybody you sell the IP to. We promise."
    12 May, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (652) | Send Message
     
    The government has also been tilting the playing field by heavily subsidizing Li-ion.
    12 May, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3881) | Send Message
     
    "Except for the monkey wrench, the excess so-called "authorized" shares being magically wafted into existence. This maneuver twists the logic. Since I don't understand it, it casts a dark pall over the whole story. "

     

    A reverse split (RS) can reduce shares outstanding enough to raise share price high enough to satisfy all Nasdaq capital market listing requirements. Such a listing would enlarge the population of investors and financial firms prepared to look at Axion Power shares. That still leaves the task of selling such prospective investors on potential profitability of buying large blocks of AXPW shares for resale into the market at prices yielding a competitive positive rate of return on their capital. Without marked improvement in PbC sales and sales prospects likelihood of a share placement at a fixed price discounted relative to prevailing market share price is virtually nil. Carrying the existing 350 million share authorization through the RS positions incumbent management for a follow on PIPE.

     

    I suppose it possible that Axion Power has been able to remain standing as an independent company due to Thomas Granville abilities to walk on water and leap tall buildings in a single bound. Appearance of the 2013 PIPE in lieu of a supposed pre-programmed follow on sequel to 2012's financing suggests any such abilities have gone the way of the Dodo bird.

     

    PbC Believer stated a relevant perspective in the last concentrator (http://seekingalpha.co...). It is reasonable (and prudent) to conclude the proposed RS with retention of 350 million share authorization reflects awareness of failing credibility of Axion's business plan (and company management) in financial markets. Market confidence in effective change in marketing fixation on "elephant" markets and buyers is not likely IMO as long as Thomas Granville retains the position of either CEO or Board Chairman.
    12 May, 03:09 PM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1443) | Send Message
     
    "Almost every one of us here was long after reading the APC."

     

    I'm not so sure. In my case I learned of Axion 11/2012 when stumbling on a JP article. I started buying in 2013 after poring over SEC filings, news, company website, same as I do for any small cap stock I buy. Only months later was I aware that APC existed.

     

    I later loaded up on shares based on PIPErs pressuring the stock for months getting the market cap into silly territory. It was my own analysis causing me to buy although APC is certainly invaluable or I wouldn't come here all the time.
    12 May, 04:21 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2768) | Send Message
     
    Novice investors will be swayed by the tone. Consider Tesla fans, a great mass of investors who have little idea that a balance sheet is let alone why it matters.
    If you only want experienced investors then tone makes little difference. Institutional investors wouldn't care. You want new investors? People who are learning investing? Then yes tone matters.
    12 May, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (80) | Send Message
     
    mr patrick young,

     

    " The driver of the stock price since ~2009 has been the passage of time. Many investors simply ran out of patience or never had any in the first place (PIPE)"

     

    for sure. with axpw, it's meant we have way more shares outstanding now than most investors expected, which has battered the stock price, along with the associated reasonable doubt as to the degree of commercial acceptance.

     

    this is still a race against time, no doubt. i like the pbc for some big apps, but still not sure when commercial acceptance kicks in big-time. we all wanna know that one
    13 May, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • futurecartsla
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    Froggey:

     

    "Consider Tesla fans, a great mass of investors who have little idea that a balance sheet is let alone why it matters.
    "

     

    Have you look at who actually holds Tesla? I'd hardly consider them novices (look at tut holdings, look at the bullish analysts).

     

    You really believe axionionista's are "experienced" investors, and Tesla investors are newbies? Talk about a disconnect from reality..
    13 May, 11:36 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    The experienced TSLA investors are experienced at knowing which stock can become a pumped up momo stock that can then be dumped to retail.
    13 May, 11:40 AM Reply Like
  • futurecartsla
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    The jelly is stong in this one...
    13 May, 11:45 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    Yup because Axion is my only stock! ...
    13 May, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1137) | Send Message
     
    @futurecartsla:

     

    That's all great in all, but Tesla has been tending down since late February. Who will be left holding TSLA stock when this is over? The institutions? You?

     

    I know, I know... TSLA is going to 1000/share... the gigafactory... have you driven one.... Elon Musk.... the Model E.... Fossil Fuels.... bla bla bla...
    13 May, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1137) | Send Message
     
    <<<The jelly is stong in this one...>>>

     

    @futurecartsla: That made me chuckle. +1
    13 May, 05:22 PM Reply Like
  • futurecartsla
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    Occam: I'm not a prophet, I'm only commenting on what I see as reality of today. Today's reality is that a lot of experienced investors hold Tesla shares. As for tomorrow: Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be, the future's not ours, to see.
    13 May, 07:26 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2768) | Send Message
     
    future
    I see others have talked about the institutions but they were not what I am talking about.
    The people posting on SA or other places.
    Few posters have a coherent or rational reason for being in the stock.
    I like the car and I believe in Musk.
    Seem to be the most often given reasons of commenters.
    Also often the facts they site are not facts.
    I have no idea where they get the ideas they are claiming. Some of these things are incredibly false and people appear to be just making them up.
    Check the information submitted by the author? Come up with a coherent response? Yeah right.

     

    We've even had Tesla supporters here, complaining about the mind numbing lack of thought of fellow supporters
    13 May, 09:22 PM Reply Like
  • futurecartsla
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    There are definitely uhhh how do I put this politely.....not so swift people on both sides of the argument. One thing I've noticed, when I started buying Tesla it was fundamentally overpriced just like it is today (approx. 1 million dollars market cap per car sold...) that was at ~$30. It's definitely trading on future results. Knowing that I feel very comfortable holding Tesla until at least the Gen3 comes out, sure a black swan event MAY happen before that, but I figure by the time the Gen3 actually hits the market, Tesla will be trading as if 500k sales per year ALREADY happened, and will be forwarding looking to uhhhh gen4? whatever that is.. So I've been asking myself, exit strategy wise, I see very little risk holding Tesla until 2-6 months BEFORE the Gen3 sales actually begin, if the current forward valuation holds true. hope that makes sense..

     

    Not trying to sound like a guru because I'm not, I've had some pretty bad investments myself (I've been stocks that ended up as Q's on OTC and got out just before they were finally cancelled..) just sharing an exit strategy I'm currently debating.

     

    Obviously, there is risk, just giving my viewpoint because I haven't seen it posted before, and I've always enjoyed your posts even if I don't always agree with them froggey
    13 May, 11:50 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2768) | Send Message
     
    Future
    I have no problem with disagreeing. You clearly are thinking about your investment and I'm sure you will do well. Certainly you've done better with Tesla than I have with Axion. :-)
    14 May, 02:40 PM Reply Like
  • futurecartsla
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Froggey, and congrats on today's news. I really do hope it's followed by a lot more sales and axion goes to the moon. Maybe I'll even be lucky enough to get in somewhere on the way up :)
    14 May, 11:18 PM Reply Like
  • Shirleyr
    , contributor
    Comments (43) | Send Message
     
    Reading the comments here this morning, I think looking at the 'self' should be part of the conversation. There seems to be 3 choices: 1. Sell now and preserve that money, 2. Stay in and either lose the money or gain many times what was invested, 3. Add more if the trust of Mr. Granville is strong.

     

    I choose #2 because I would feel worse losing out on the gain than losing my original investment. This is another opportunity in life to 'know thyself well'.
    12 May, 10:09 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (781) | Send Message
     
    Well, so far this morning it appears there are more shareholders wanting out than wanting in! This is shaping up to be a very interesting week indeed!

     

    On a side note, I am enjoying watching Kandi this morning. They reported and it was pretty good!
    12 May, 10:35 AM Reply Like
  • Sohkubo
    , contributor
    Comments (98) | Send Message
     
    About 40% of everything I have is in KNDI so it was a good day. Still in the red for now but no reason (yet) why it shouldn't be back up to $20 by the end of the year!

     

    Not convinced the markets are done killing small-caps just yet though.
    12 May, 07:48 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (781) | Send Message
     
    I have faith in the longer term success of Kandi and fortunately I was lucky enough to buy in back in the $4.00 range. I will be holding for a long time!
    12 May, 08:22 PM Reply Like
  • isthisonebetter
    , contributor
    Comments (228) | Send Message
     
    RBrun,

     

    I bought and sold in the $4s. I guess that's why they say patience is a virtue.
    12 May, 08:50 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (781) | Send Message
     
    I am hoping that patience pays off with Axion too! I think we shall know something soon as whether we will start to hear a heartbeat or not!
    12 May, 09:27 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (652) | Send Message
     
    Conference call May 16.
    http://bit.ly/1oICliM
    12 May, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    I've always preferred an earnings release after the market closes with a conference call the following morning. It gives folks more time to digest the disclosures and think about their questions. +1
    12 May, 10:57 AM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (80) | Send Message
     
    thanks, mr jveal.
    12 May, 11:04 AM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (80) | Send Message
     
    one thing i would like to know is the status of replacing the cfo. i think mr granville said they expect to hire someone in time for that person to sign off on the quarterly financials. no public word yet on a hiring. maybe we get that news this week.
    12 May, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2093) | Send Message
     
    Hi GA,
    Did I miss something re the CFO? I thought there was a new CFO candidate that sat in silently at the last CC. I had assumed (we all know what that means) he took the position.
    12 May, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (939) | Send Message
     
    I would like to know about OEMs. Are they still concerned about manufacturing capacity and having multiple suppliers? Are they still testing, negotiating, or just biding their time? Can TG comment any more about the Kia demonstration of a "lead-carbon" mild-hybrid? He once said they were in talks with a top 5 Asian OEM. Is BMW still considered a serious potential customer?
    12 May, 01:06 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    Trego was said to be available in the interim, so let's not panic about unsigned docs yet.
    12 May, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (80) | Send Message
     
    mr stilldazed, no, the outgoing cfo sat in on the last conference call.
    12 May, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    Stilldazed, I'm pretty sure it's a material event if a contract is signed with a corp. officer and requires a filing.
    12 May, 01:12 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2093) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the answers. I don't see a reason to panic. I was actually questioning my own assumption. Arghh, oldtimers (CRS) strikes again.;-)
    12 May, 01:37 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    3-, 4-cylinder BMW M cars coming one day

     

    "Nitschke also says any electric assistance must, first and foremost, improve performance, and that the prospect of lighter and compact super-capacitors is more appealing than batteries.

     

    While Mazda is the first car maker to introduce a super-capacitor in a production car with its Mazda6, Toyota is currently paving the way for super-capacitors to boost performance rather than solely to run ancillary electrical systems. Its Le Mans prototype racer, which heads into this year’s 24-hour race leading the World Endurance Championship with victory in the opening races of the season, uses super-capacitors rather than batteries and it is understood that the Japanese car maker and BMW are looking to transfer that technology to the road with the joint-venture sports car currently under development.

     

    “Any [hybrid] must be a real M, so to have a KERS system for 10 seconds more acceleration does not compensate for the [weight penalty of] batteries right now, but there are other technologies we are looking at,” he said."

     

    http://bit.ly/1oJ9WJg
    12 May, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    My last understanding was that the contract lead acid business with East Penn is going to disappear later this year. Am I correct? If so, without a real chunk of sustained sales what will sales be in the future? 2M at best?
    12 May, 02:57 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    The timing and rate of decline would be an excellent Q for the CC. In addition, info whether it was initiated by Axion or East Penn and why.
    12 May, 04:09 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (820) | Send Message
     
    It was implied in the last conference call that based on the initial agreement with East Penn that Axion believed that they would need the facility for their own batteries and gave a planned date to when they would need that battery. Therefore East Penn worked with them and built a capital plan to have their own plant/capacity upgrades to be able to take that business back.
    From outside reading we've read about East Penn manufacturing expansion at their main facility so I expect that this is what East Penn did and once their facility is done they will wind down.

     

    The problem for AXPW is that when this initial agreement was made AXPW had expected to have the demand for the PbC lines fully built out and probably the need to be ready to convert this battery plant to a second PbC facility. Unfortunately we don't have demand to fill one line in the other plant at this time.

     

    In a conference call with limited time I have many more pressing questions. I'd assume a shutdown of the plant means they would release these people and costs would decrease similarly. I've long assumed that the GM was under 10% so if you shut both down you'd see a $10M reduction in sales and $9M reduction in costs. Meaning your cash burn is now $1M incrementally more excluding severance/termination costs. It probably increase the capital raise from $10M to $11M and screws up training/tooling/build... plans that TG has in place once their was a regular PbC customer.
    12 May, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    If we lose the toll manufacturing contract this year, unless TG has a real big rabbit he can pull out of the bag, then we will either see massive share printing to get working capital and try keep the business afloat, or we might as well prepare to get swallowed for pennies by a major...
    12 May, 05:45 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (820) | Send Message
     
    Why would you need a massive issuance for Working Capital?

     

    I assume that most of the inventory is tied to the tolling contract and the amount of inventory that is 100% AXPW for PbC is probably all paid for. They have minimal sales of the PbC so you are not going to need much. I believe this will be an early 2015 event anyway as the original articles about the East Penn battery expansion spoke of completion in late 2014/early 2015 with additional jobs in early 2015.
    12 May, 05:58 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    That's simply not true. The toll manufacturing contract pays for manufacturing staff and some overheads, but makes little or no contribution to to the bottom line.

     

    In 2010 there was no toll manufacturing contract and Axion had $2.15 million in sales with an operating loss $6.8 million.

     

    In 2013 there was a toll manufacturing contract and Axion had $10.2 million in sales with an operating loss of $8.2 million.

     

    The flooded contract was very useful when it came to training production staff and proving Axion's ability to manufacture a quality product, but it that's about all.
    12 May, 05:58 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2768) | Send Message
     
    East Penn is building a new factory due In the spring of 2015. I don't believe East Penn would end the contract before then. I also doubt they will continue the contract after the factory is producing .
    TG was the one who mentioned the potential of ending the contract by the end of the year.
    As Axion hoped to be using the space for PbC.
    12 May, 07:01 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2322) | Send Message
     
    BW, that has been speculated on but not confirmed.

     

    I believe speculation had arisen since TG mentioned a tolling extension through a certain date but that does not preclude a further extension as that date nears.
    12 May, 07:30 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2768) | Send Message
     
    I decided to look it up.
    "So my first question was in the 10-K you commented on the fact that it looks like you’re going to be decreasing the number of batteries you’re making in the toll battery contract and going to be increasing the number of batteries that you’re going to be making for PbC. Is this something where the toll company doesn’t want as many batteries or are you just think that you’re going to need more of your production staff for PbC battery?
    Thomas Granville

     

    So, it’s always been the plan that we would make -- that we would toll batteries as long as there was adequate space and there were adequate assets to do that. Everyone knew including our partner, strategic partner, that that was the case. Eventually we would have to part ways in that tolling arrangement because there just isn’t enough room that there is not enough people, there is not enough dry charge availability to both. So I think its combination of both of the items that you mentioned. Since they know that it’s going to end at some point in time, they have to take steps in order to fill that void."
    12 May, 08:15 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    Froggey, So I read that to mean that we, like a baby bird, only have so much time in the nest. We made a long term plan and found someone to support us while it met their needs as well. So now, our planned nurturing period is up. We're standing on the side of the nest and we fly or die based on a bunch of very opaque, to most Axion investors, behind the curtain factors. We have all the hardware but we're darn nervous for sure.
    12 May, 11:43 PM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (162) | Send Message
     
    I saw on the 10-k that "one customer" contributed 84.5% of the 10.2M sales so without that customer sales would have been 1.58M. Not sure what the gross profit was on the 8.6M contract sales. If I am not mistakes a whole bunch of that cost might carry over to PbC. I imagine there is quite a bit of creative accounting offsetting loss making PbC against profitable contract. If I remember correctly the contract is being wound down and not halted completely?
    12 May, 03:47 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2480) | Send Message
     
    Am I slow or is there really something wrong with this timeline?

     

    - August CC - TG predicting significant sales by next CC.
    -Sept. Annual Meeting - TG confirms prior statement in person in front of 50 to 100 people - including me.
    - November CC - TG sounds frustrated, but says it will not be more than six months.
    - December - does local tv interview where he states Axion is preparing for a significant ramp in sales.
    - March CC - when asked about sales TG is coy and says he can't wait to update us in 44 days.

     

    In the meantime, the most disastrous financing Axion has ever seen winds down, the CFO, who was just hired resigns, and a 1/50 reverse split is proposed as a "good move" without any hint of sales.

     

    Is it wrong to expect a credible explanation? Or should we just take the b.s. hook, line and sinker?

     

    Ok wizard, you want the authority you are seeking, it's time to pull back the curtain. Where's Toto when you need him?
    12 May, 07:10 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2322) | Send Message
     
    Stef,

     

    You know the answers. Thus you either believe Axion can succeed despite TG but not because of him. A lot on the line this Friday; I hope you call in.
    12 May, 07:34 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    NSC delays.
    12 May, 07:46 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, Don't worry the box of tricks is fully loaded for Friday. He even turned it up a notch from past cc's. They used to be magic.

     

    http://bit.ly/1jUcILk
    12 May, 07:51 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2480) | Send Message
     
    ii - lol. I'm ready for some unvarnished truth as to where things stand. A 1/50 reverse split is a major reorganization of the capital structure of Axion. I think legacy investors are entitled to a full update on all of the carrots that have been dangled in front of investors.
    12 May, 08:40 PM Reply Like
  • blauschuh
    , contributor
    Comments (55) | Send Message
     
    I'm predicting a lot of "unknown unknowns" during this CC : http://bit.ly/11pVZb4

     

    One of the known knowns is the toll contract and during the last conference call we weren't even able to get a crystal clear answer on that:

     

    "we would toll batteries as long as there was adequate space and there were adequate assets to do that. Eventually we would have to part ways in that tolling arrangement because there just isn’t enough room that there is not enough people, there is not enough dry charge availability to both."
    ....

     

    TG vocal coach and CC mentor ... perhaps: http://bit.ly/QCte74
    12 May, 09:43 PM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1443) | Send Message
     
    "- December - does local tv interview where he states Axion is preparing for a significant ramp in sales."

     

    "very steep" ramp in sales was the exact phrase that got some of us excited
    12 May, 11:32 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8752) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, You and me both. Err, plus a few more I suspect. I also suspect Bauschuh came closer to what we can expect to hear directionally.

     

    BTW, I do like carrots but you can only eat so much as we've seen from reading a few testimonials from some Axionista's that we hoped we'd enjoy company with at our final destination.
    12 May, 11:58 PM Reply Like
  • kevin lemm
    , contributor
    Comments (87) | Send Message
     
    Why is it taking so long to address the frequency regulation market that Axion seems so well suited for? In my attempts to answer this question I have come to the following conclusion. Turns out these things just take a long time, you can quote me on that. Although the products being implemented for this market aren’t that new anymore, as John Petersen talked about the players in this market in his ahead of its time article from November 2008 entitled “why frequency regulation is important”

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    October 2011: The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) initiated the pay for performance order # 755. Which was established to address the economics of frequency regulation.

     

    November 2011: Viridity Energy announced it will participate in the PJM market. With the use of Axion’s PowerCube, this marked the first time an external energy storage system had been integrated into a major power grid. Congratulations by the way to Axion in being the first.

     

    In the months that followed, PJM, Viridity, and the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) had a legal conversation on how to deal with this new entity that wants to be both a demand response (DR) customer that sells energy to PJM and also participate in the price responsive demand (PRD) market that reduces its energy demand when electricity prices are high.

     

    February 2012: PJM responded to the FERC’s Dec14, 2011, request for a response to this issue.
    The following is part of that conversation outlining the problem from PJM’s perspective:

     

    PJM explained at length why a given customer could not have a specified load on both the demand side of the PJM market (as a PRD commitment that reduces load at progressively higher prices) and on the supply side of the market (as a resource offering to be paid for load reductions in the same way a generator is paid to supply energy). PJM offered the example of a customer that has “its demand reduction compensated as Economic DR as long as the [Locational Marginal Price (“LMP”)] at the associated location is greater than the Economic DR offer price and less than the PRD Curve price,” and then, if the energy market locational price exceeds the price specified by the customer on its PRD Curve, “the resource would no longer be compensated as Economic DR but would instead ‘flip over’ to PRD.” PJM explained that this would create a “discontinuity,” i.e., the customer would “enter a market,” then “increase [its] supplies as prices rise,” but “suddenly withdraw from the market when price moves even higher.” The discontinuity violates the basic market principle that sell offers increase monotonically with price. The discontinuity would have “adverse, real-world consequences for clearing a market, setting accurate prices, committing resources, and ensuring reliability.”
    As PJM elaborated in its response, the “‘disappearance’ of a supply-side resource would require in each case an adjustment to the PJM load forecast to recognize that apparently anomalous seller behavior was instead a ‘flip’ from DR to PRD.” Since such discontinuities would appear under maximum generation emergency conditions, when the system is already stressed, they would arise at “the worst possible time for the dispatch algorithm to generate apparently anomalous results that might necessitate review or manual intervention.”

     

    It appears Axion is ready, but the industry is still catching up with the details of implementation.

     

    July 18, 2013: The FERC issued order FERC 784 which expanded on the October 2011, pay for performance order # 755. FERC 784 was met with great anticipation by the energy industry as this article by Interstate Renewable Energy Council points out.

     

    http://bit.ly/1lsPiwr

     

    November, 2013: shortly after the announcement of FERC # 784, Axion announced the sale of another PowerCube, this one to a solar energy provider.

     

    December 2013: Mr. Granville did a television interview expressing optimism regarding upcoming sales. I would be willing to speculate the passage of FERC 784 was the reason for the optimism by Mr. Granville for upcoming sales. It has been less than a year since FERC order 784 has been initiated, which considering the time it takes to react to these changes, seems like a short time frame. I sure would like to hear of new sales but now seems too early to get impatient with results for what appears to be a maturation of a major movement within the industry.
    13 May, 10:46 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3296) | Send Message
     
    Kevin, IMHO you just hit the bullseye dead-on and with a bazooka. Perfect. As far as stationary storage goes we are simply subject to others. Subject to others in an enormously complicated and still forming market. With an evolutionary, but still profoundly new, product. There is so much of this outside our sphere of control. No matter how hard we wanna dig our spurs into its flanks, this storage train's only gonna move when it wants to. But move it will, someday, and we need to stay on it.
    13 May, 10:19 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    48 & Kevin - There are two parts to stationary storage: behind the meter and in front of the meter.

     

    In-front is highly regulated, with a lethargic, exceedingly slow market response. Utilities make snails look like hot rods. This is also a market where politics, cronyism, "nobody ever got fired for buying GE" mentality reign. It takes a lot of clout to be effective. Unfortunately, I think on a 0-10 scale of clout, we have about 0.1. Apparently we couldn't even get to first base with any of the Pennsylvania projects (SEPTA, etc.)

     

    The behind the meter is essentially unregulated. For commercial, one can sell from day one. Even for consumer sales, while getting UL certification is tedious, but relatively straight forward and not politicized.

     

    While the elephants may be in front of the meter, they are all wearing Kevlar vests and protected by a clutter of bureaucrats. Behind the meter is open hunting. In my experience, many of the behind the meter devices are woefully inadequate and rarely solve real problems.

     

    I question if any utility elephant can ever buy from mice, unless it has several powerful godfathers. The giants, like ABB, GE, and Siemens are the only ones with elephant permits - no matter how patient we are, we won't get there, until swallowed by a biggie.
    13 May, 11:50 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3296) | Send Message
     
    Rick, thanks for the useful perspectives. I'm still striving from my own cloudy perceptions towards better clarity WRT to the whole subject. It does seem to me though that "behind the meter" concepts all get somewhat harder to pin down once the meter in question transitions from being simply a one-way device (ie where energy and money each flow only one way) to the much more complex and powerful compound case of being a two-way meter, where money and energy can each flow in either direction, sometimes together, sometimes opposite...

     

    To my mind the physics and engineering of it is the least complicated and not really the obstacle. It's the economics and regulatory navigation that is the big headache...
    14 May, 01:18 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3881) | Send Message
     
    Kevin, 48' -- While FR and PowerCubes have been front and center in terms of projected "significant" sales over the past nine - ten months (since last August), there really is no reason to consider FR applications the only market for PbCs. It is true that decisions by auto OEMs, NSC, utilities, solar/wind farm project developers are outside Axion's sphere of control, but the breadth of Axion's marketing efforts and strategies is most certainly within management control.

     

    Elephant hunting is Thomas Granville's choice and is killing the company.
    14 May, 01:24 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    Elephant hunting was never Tom's plan. In the summer of 2009 Ed Buiel did a poster presentation at the AABC in Long Beach and shortly thereafter the first elephants arrived in New Castle saying "show me what you've done." They found Axion. Tom Granville didn't simply decide to go chasing them down in the wilds.

     

    By the end of 2009 BMW was telling Axion "You've passed our preliminary battery evaluation screening with flying colors so we want to take things to the next level." Over the next few months a couple more elephants decided to join the party. Today there's a veritable herd of the damned things milling around in New Castle doing things the way they've always done them – slowly, carefully and deliberately.

     

    When you're trying to make your mark and a superstar says "stick with me kid and you'll be farting through silk," nobody with a scrap of ambition says "no thanks."

     

    We all underestimated the time and effort required to bring Axion's game up to big league standards.
    14 May, 06:46 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (939) | Send Message
     
    Another question I want answered on the call is what, if any, pressure Tom is putting on our elephant herd to honor us with a little public trumpeting for the hard road we dutifully followed them on.

     

    In my experience, you don't get anything unless you ask for it.
    14 May, 07:04 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    JP - TG has made it repetitively clear he is avoiding marketing or distribution with small players, with the single exception of ePower. If you claim elephants were not part of his plan, the what the f^%#@ was his plan?
    14 May, 08:00 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    The original plan was to start with the small players and eventually move up to the big leagues. Read Axion's old disclosure documents. They're very clear on the issue.

     

    The plan CHANGED when the elephants found their way to New Castle. They basically said "We're going to make you a star but you have to keep your head down and your mouth shut until we tell you that it's OK to talk."

     

    The first time Axion and ePower got together there was no chance for a deal. ePower was convinced that it could get all the performance it needed from AGM batteries at a fraction of the price. Axion was very interested in what ePower was doing, but the elephants had made it clear that Axion had a ton of manufacturing process refinement to finish before it could claim a "commercial product."

     

    While Axion could afford to work with elephants that had great technical teams of their own, it could not afford to fool around with a small company like ePower that would require huge amounts of engineering time, talent and hand holding.

     

    When the two companies got back together a couple years later ePower understood that other batteries could not do the work and Axion was almost finished with its manufacturing process refinement.

     

    The deal that could not have happened in 2010 because neither company was ready did happen in 2012 when both companies were ready.
    14 May, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3881) | Send Message
     
    "Elephant hunting was never Tom's plan. In the summer of 2009 Ed Buiel did a poster presentation at the AABC in Long Beach and shortly thereafter the first elephants arrived in New Castle saying "show me what you've done." They found Axion. Tom Granville didn't simply decide to go chasing them down in the wilds."

     

    It matters not who discovered whom, only that a decision was made to chase the elephants and only elephants. From the point of that market focus decision, Axion management has displayed lack of understanding of the markets, excessive optimism about revenues and underestimated capital requirements to sustain operations. IMO there are 75 mil - 100 mil more shares outstanding today than would have been needed had Thomas Granville pursued a less "penny wise and pound foolish" course.
    14 May, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    D-Inv, I would not consider Rosewater an elephant and they expended considerable time and money chasing development of the HUB only to find no market at that price point. Multi-Link is another example of a non-elephant they have been working with for a long time but still have not sold any batteries to.
    14 May, 11:53 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    D-inv> I disagree. The only reason Axion's stock price has plummeted since 2009 is a handful of investors who behaved like vandals rather than responsible adults.

     

    They held blocks of shares that they knew they couldn't sell into an illiquid market without crushing the price. One after another they made conscious decisions to deliberately crush the market price. The result is was a $20 million market capitalization at the nadir.

     

    I pay attention to supply and demand dynamics because three decades of work in the micro-cap markets have taught me that the laws of supply and demand trump everything – all positive news becomes irrelevant when supply and demand are out of balance.

     

    If you're looking for somebody to blame, blame the investors who should have acted like stable partners and ended up stabbing Axion in the back.

     

    The one thing I've learned over the last 30 years is that management can do its best to find the right investors, but there's no way to predict who will turn into a snake once the check clears and the stock certificates are issued.
    14 May, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    >>The only reason Axion's stock price has plummeted since 2009 is a handful of investors who behaved like vandals rather than responsible adults.<<

     

    That and the fact that they haven't sold many batteries while burning through $9M/yr.
    14 May, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    Did you miss the part about Axion being an R&D company through the end of 2012?

     

    Did you miss the part about Axion not launching its automated carbon sheeting process till this time last year?

     

    A decade ago the PbC was a science fair project. The company spent three years on basic research, three more years on developing rudimentary production technologies and three more years developing refined production technologies.

     

    The unfortunate fact is that R&D companies can only sell products for user testing and validation purposes.

     

    Nobody ever suggested that the PbC would be a drop-in replacement for any lead-acid battery application. In fact, it would be a profound waste to put a PbC into a machine that wasn't built to take advantage of its strengths and accommodate its weakness.

     

    The bottom line is that end users have to build the new classes of machines they've always wanted to build before they can buy PbCs. Their design process started several years ago and several are getting close, but griping about a lack of sales from a company that didn't have a product until this time last year seems disingenuous.
    14 May, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2163) | Send Message
     
    JP - Did you miss that TG has missed every single sales projection he ever made, except for today? Did you miss the number of people complaining that TG has made buying a PbC a bureaucratic and legalistic hassle, even for R & D testing?
    14 May, 02:49 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    None of that changes the fact that when you burn through your underlying equity, it erodes value and that value is reflected in share price. Frankly, I think all the repeated cut-and-paste assertions that it is all a supply and demand issue is just so much more of the unicorns and rainbows. When they start selling some batteries, the demand will take care of itself. Today was a good example of that.
    14 May, 02:54 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    Maybe the hassle was to filter for serious and profitable inquiries only. I've seen it done before.
    14 May, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    Rick> It takes boundless optimism to accept the CEO role in any R&D company that's trying to bring a generational advance in an established technology to market. After spending six years on basic science and manufacturing process development, it's no great character flaw to incorrectly believe that customers who tell you your product performs spectacularly will move quickly, even if subsequent events prove you wrong. If you want guaranteed sales and timing, buy Apple.

     

    Companies with unlimited capital and huge staffs can chase every wild goose that comes along. When you only have a few engineers that can respond to customer service requirements, you have to make the hard choice. When presented a choice between assigning staff to BMW or assigning staff to a tinkerer, the tinkerer loses every time because the expected future value of his project is very low while the expected future value of a BMW project is very high.

     

    NGS> What you think of me or my opinions is none of my business. More importantly, I really don't care whether you believe me or not because the facts will prove me right or they'll prove me wrong.

     

    Over the next few months I expect Axion to deliver a great education on supply and demand dynamics in the stock market. What you do with that education is entirely your affair.
    14 May, 03:11 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    Yes, we shall see. Of course, last year when you declared the supply imbalance ended it did very little to the share price over those few months. Then the pipe came along. So we have another few months this year to test your theory before the next time we get hammered by an equity issue. Of course, if they start selling batteries in the interim, we will never know if it was the sales or the supply/demand that affects the price and we can both claim to be right.
    14 May, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1395) | Send Message
     
    Easy. First BySolar sale did zippo for the share price with the PIPErs around. Second sale is looking close to 30% for the first day.

     

    There you go. PIPE = supply. Sales = demand.
    14 May, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    Axion's stock started to respond well to the reduction of the supply and demand imbalance in late 2012 and early 2013, but then Axion's FY-12 10-K disclosed:

     

    "We believe that the currently available funds at December 31, 2012, which includes the net proceeds of $8.6 million from our February 2012 registered direct common stock offering and internally generated funds from products sales will provide sufficient financial resources."

     

    That got stockholders worried with good reason that a major problem was imminent.

     

    While Axion is not rolling in cash today, it's FY-13 Form 10-K disclosed:

     

    "We believe that the currently available funds at December 31, 2013, which includes the net remaining amount available in the restricted cash account and funds generated from products sales will provide sufficient financial resources for our operations, working capital and will fund our anticipated continued growth of sales in traditional batteries and PbC products and maintain our anticipated capital expenditures into the fourth quarter of 2014."

     

    Suggesting that another financing is imminent is disingenuous. Suggesting that any executive in his right mind would go another round with the PIPErs after you've seen his plan to upgrade to a real market makes me wonder about motives.
    14 May, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3881) | Send Message
     
    "I would not consider Rosewater an elephant and they expended considerable time and money chasing development of the HUB only to find no market at that price point. Multi-Link is another example ...."

     

    Those exceptions to the elephant rule together with ePower gave suggestion of a learning curve with positive slope. Axion did expend a bit of time and money on development of the HUB, but I see no indication such commitment to MultiLink. Both companies produced products followed by total lack of evidence of follow-on Axion PbC sales to populate commercial products of those sub-elephants. Purchase price and quantity parameters demanded by Axion are prime candidates for solid explanation of that lack of follow-on sales. Demanding Tesla-like sales prices for less than elephant-size volumes would qualify the Rosewater HUB and MultiLink exercises as more elephant hunting.
    14 May, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message
     
    I agree wholeheartedly that Rosewater was no elephant and Axion wasted a lot of time on their project. If the principals of Rosewater didn't have a lot of history with Axion's management and a stellar record of selling high-end electronics in the consumer market, I'll bet Axion would have passed because those kinds of little failures are very costly when they divert staff attention from more important projects.

     

    I don't know what it is about little guys who think Axion should jump through hoops to suit their desires, but we sure seem to get a lot of hubristic complaining from little guys with little ideas that just didn't male the grade. Including Rosewater I can think of at least three parties who are incensed that Axion told them no. They know who they are.

     

    Since I have no knowledge of what Axion's plans with Multilink were or are, I have basis for a well reasoned opinion on the project.
    14 May, 04:04 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (864) | Send Message
     
    There you go questioning my motives again. I will refrain from doing likewise (though a good case could be made...) and just be confident in the knowledge that I have been right about the risks Axion faces and its likely affect on share price much more than you in the past two years.
    14 May, 04:08 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29437) | Send Message