Seeking Alpha

Axion Power Host's  Instablog

Axion Power Host
Send Message
Trying to learn stuff
Back To Axion Power Host's Instablog HomePage »

Instablogs are blogs which are instantly set up and networked within the Seeking Alpha community. Instablog posts are not selected, edited or screened by Seeking Alpha editors, in contrast to contributors' articles.

Comments (393)
Track new comments
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    first

     

    i dare everybody to only post new information on this concentrator. let's see who's disciplined and who isn't
    14 May, 06:22 AM Reply Like
  • 212138
    , contributor
    Comments (183) | Send Message
     
    I also am long AXPW and going longer every chance I get. I think TG drove past my place yesterday disguised as Elvis or maybe Roy Orbison just as I was hitting the road. I think it's an omen! Also I can hear the obnoxious one, JC (Jim Cramer) screaming "BUY, buy, buy!"somewhere in my head. Sorry, it's early but I really do tink it may be time to back up the e-Power truck and load up on AXPW! Booyah?
    14 May, 06:23 AM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    double-dare
    14 May, 06:26 AM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (198) | Send Message
     
    I checked back on the axion news releases. End of last year the earnings release fell on a thursday and cc on the friday. Axion released news about the power cube sale after close on wednesday. If TG is a man of habit (excluding habitual disappointment {insert snark here}) maybe if a deal is to be announced then tonight is the night. I will certainly be clicking F5 a couple of times.
    14 May, 07:41 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1634) | Send Message
     
    An order is out for 4 powercubes !!!!!
    14 May, 08:10 AM Reply Like
  • alsobirdman
    , contributor
    Comments (383) | Send Message
     
    Great news. Now I am waiting for the complaining to start that the order isn't for 5.
    14 May, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4673) | Send Message
     
    Yeah! Congratulations on Finding Customer No. 1.

     

    A pulse has been detected in New Castle.
    14 May, 09:27 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2656) | Send Message
     
    Congrats are in order. Customer number 1 and a pulse have been found.
    14 May, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1842) | Send Message
     
    Wow, the first day I decide to sleep in and an order is announced! Oh well, at least I didn't sell my shares.
    14 May, 10:26 AM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (311) | Send Message
     
    Ranma, sleep in more often will you please.
    14 May, 10:50 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1634) | Send Message
     
    By solar orders 4 powercubes worth 1.1 million usd. That's a beginning and hopefully w gain more traction with the product. Would be great to have dozens out there!
    14 May, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    Look at the price: 4x 500KW powercubes for a total of 1.1 million, or roughly $275,000 for each powercube. If, say, each powercube has 600 batteries, at $300 each (rough guess) that would be $180,000 in batteries and less than $100,000 for everything else... Overall, the pricing seems pretty decent.
    14 May, 08:19 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    Hope this starts an avalanche of sales. The timing came right down to the wire.
    14 May, 08:28 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    price action will be interesting to watch today. as have finished work, going to go home and watch.
    14 May, 08:32 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    A 2 MW charge, 2 MW discharge system for 1 million dollars including all the supporting systems is an excellent price. Very affordable. 1 GW would only cost 500 million dollars (in theory).

     

    From wikipedia:
    "INSTALLATION COSTS: Coal power plants are generally one of the least expensive sources of electricity by this measure, at a construction cost around $2.10 a watt.[1] Large hydroelectric systems can be even less expensive by this measure; the Three Gorges Dam is reported to have cost ¥180 billion (US$26 billion), about $1 a watt, but actual costs are widely believed to be much higher.[2] Solar panels are currently selling for as low as US$0.70 per watt (7-April-2012) in industrial quantities; the balance of system costs (inverters, racks, wiring, marketing) made the median price in 2011 of large (>100 kW) systems $2.60/watt in Germany and $4.87/watt in the US.[3] The price difference between German and US photovoltaic systems was analyzed in 2013 by Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.[4] Large wind turbines cost about $2 a watt.[5] Natural gas-fired peaking power plants are around $1 per watt ($1,000/kW) of electrical capacity.[6]"

     

    SO WE'RE SELLING FULLY INSTALLED SYSTEMS FOR $0.50 a WATT!

     

    This is big news for the grid, not just Axion.
    14 May, 08:38 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    Also, in contrast to power generators that use fossil fuel (the next best competitor for installation cost is natural gas at $1 watt), there is no fuel price or fuel regulatory risk to an investor. The system's value is simply proportional to the frequency of supply and demand fluctuations times its capacity times the demand charge. Supply fluctuations will increase in tandem with the growth of distributed and renewable energy generators.
    14 May, 08:50 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9574) | Send Message
     
    Patrick, Great news. However please be careful in your calculations. The portion or the cubes being supplied by Axion is not the all in cost for the deployment in whatever form they will be rolled out. For example the last order didn't include the inverter and the location that the batteries will be housed in. Pretty sure that is the case here as well.

     

    Anyway, again, great news.
    14 May, 09:17 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    Extrapolating from the first powercube sale to BySolar, that should be a 1.2 MWh system, and could therefore discharge at 2 MW for over 30 minutes or 100 KW for twelve hours.
    14 May, 09:23 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    iindelco> All the same, nobody else publishes the true cost of the system. And at $0.50 a watt, i think the price can afford a little bit of real estate and cost of inverters and still be extremely appealing.
    14 May, 09:28 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    There's a good argument that the cost of the batteries, racks and wiring supplied by Axion is the entire cost increment.

     

    You can't install a solar system without inverters and power control electronics, so they're part of the baseline in any event.

     

    If do your planning right and specify inverters and power control electronics that can handle both solar panels and batteries you're way ahead of the game for very little incremental cost.

     

    Ultimately that's the beauty of the combination. The incremental cost of the batteries is just not that high.

     

    The economics are much tougher if you're trying to do a PowerCube as a stand alone and have to allocate inverter and power control costs to the batteries.
    14 May, 09:31 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2428) | Send Message
     
    Patrick wrote: "SO WE'RE SELLING FULLY INSTALLED SYSTEMS FOR $0.50 a WATT!"

     

    Not really. We are selling uninstalled "fuel tanks" FOB New Castle, without inverters. It may be a great deal, or not, but please recognize what the product is.

     

    Equally important, you are trying to make comparison of primary generation against secondary storage. Sorta like comparing apples and, I dunno, wheelbarrows. Apples are nice to eat; wheelbarrows, like fuel tanks, don't taste very good.
    14 May, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    The peaker plants are just fuel tanks that burn fuel. They can be replaced with wind and solar generators but only if the power supply can be reliably smoothed with battery fuel tanks. My point is that if even without the renewables, if I were an unbiased investor who wanted to make money by absorbing part of the existing demand for frequency regulation, I would naturally consider a natural gas plant but these numbers make me think twice about the economics of batteries.
    14 May, 09:46 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    Maybe need to elucidate a bit more: I imagine maintaing gas turbines is pretty expensive, and with a seven year life (probable) PbC is not expensive to maintain. Not to mention it is more nimble and doesn't require workers to operate. The economics could be a combination of short FR and long-term peak shifting. Buy power cheap, sell it when it's expensive.
    14 May, 09:59 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Peak shifting is a very tough economic equation because in most places the sun shines brightly when power is most expensive. Taking valuable power during daylight hours and storing it for use after sunset is not a great business model, even though it's a heavily hyped model.

     

    The real benefits are (1) providing FR services, and (2) providing demand charge management capability.

     

    For example, commercial power users in the PSEG service area pay:

     

    (1) a distribution charge of $4.28 per kW during non-summer months and $7.94 per kW during the summer that's based on the highest 15-minute power demand period during the month; and
    (2) energy charges of about $0.12 per kWh.

     

    http://bit.ly/1qCRDu3

     

    If you own a 500 kW solar panel system it's a virtual certainty that your power output will fall below 100 kW for at least 15 minutes a month. All it takes is an afternoon rain storm or a very cloudy day.

     

    If you have a 400 kW drop in your solar power for 15 minutes in the summer, your demand charge for the month will be $3,176. If you have batteries to cover that 15-minute power sag your demand charge will be zero.

     

    Another important demand charge management issue arises if your business has variable loads that cause a big spike in power use for a 15-minute interval and then fall off to more manageable levels. The best example I can think of is a huge air compressor we have at ePower and never use. If we fire up the compressor and let it bring the system up to pressure, it sends our demand charges for the month through the roof. So we use a small compressor instead because our needs just aren't heavy enough to justify using the beast.

     

    FR is an important profit center. Commercial scale demand charge management can be a more important cost reduction center.
    14 May, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • Shirleyr
    , contributor
    Comments (93) | Send Message
     
    Mr. Peterson, I want to acknowledge you for your expertise and detail about the subject. You are the major influence in my investing in AXPW. And win or lose I've learned much as I did with the Beacon investment. I believe that is what life is about, learning regardless of the outcome in any arena of life. Thank you for continuing to stay the course against some vicious criticisms that have been based on emotion only.
    14 May, 04:50 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    While you wouldn't know it sometimes, I really a peach of a fellow who hates conflict and loves sharing what he's learned over the years. I'm not the smartest bear in the woods by any means, but I've learned some painful lessons over the years and I my writing can keep somebody else from making the same mistakes that's a good thing.
    14 May, 04:56 PM Reply Like
  • Shirleyr
    , contributor
    Comments (93) | Send Message
     
    You are a brave person. I am familiar with the bears in the woods since I'm a backpacker and have been for over 30 years. I have learned how to respect their space and accommodate them. Like myself, most people have to learn for themselves.
    14 May, 07:09 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2428) | Send Message
     
    JP, I think your example of the ePower compressor is a useful lesson. If you expand and do need greater compressed air, there are three options:

     

    1) crank up the big boy compressor - $$$

     

    2) add an extra air tank or two, and run the small compressor every night at off-peak rates. Let it run continuously from midnight to until all filled. An "air battery". Air tanks should be cheaper than batteries for demand time shifting.

     

    3) use some of the PcBs in WIP to enable the big boy compressor to run without impacting your demand charge.
    18 May, 10:28 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (787) | Send Message
     
    I think ePower needs a PowerCube!

     

    Just saying!
    18 May, 10:41 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2428) | Send Message
     
    Option # 3 is essentially a low cost DIY PowerCube.

     

    The interesting comparison is relative cost to more air tanks.
    18 May, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (787) | Send Message
     
    RK,

     

    I agree completely that your number 3 was the same but I just felt like yelling "PowerCube" for some reason!

     

    Sorry!
    18 May, 10:55 AM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    Considering they have some old PbC lying around. The Cube option 3 might be the best way to go.
    18 May, 02:56 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Since every available dollar of capital is earmarked for developing our drivetrain, I'd have a hard time justifying any capital spending for ancillary on-site hardware.
    18 May, 03:13 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9574) | Send Message
     
    I was thinking 2 mechanics on the B-Shift making the compressed air issue even worse myself. Not sure if ePower is there yet but I'm sure there have been more than a few days where favorable time compression would have been the right choice.

     

    Oh, for ePower as well.
    19 May, 08:35 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    This is pretty much how I feel right now:

     

    http://bit.ly/1qCyyIt

     

    and yes, I did just rip my shirt off.
    14 May, 08:26 AM Reply Like
  • Sohkubo
    , contributor
    Comments (98) | Send Message
     
    Ha, if I'm overjoyed at seeing what it's done to my 200K shares, I can't imagine how good a day the 1M+ shareholders like yourself are having!
    14 May, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (879) | Send Message
     
    To make an avalanche, the first snowflake must fall.
    If BySolar with PbC batteries is as profitable as has been implied, it will be quite an avalanche.
    14 May, 08:29 AM Reply Like
  • CoryM
    , contributor
    Comments (79) | Send Message
     
    I really liked the wording concerning the California and Hawaii opportunities noted in the press release..."we plan to participate".
    14 May, 08:34 AM Reply Like
  • RuggedDC
    , contributor
    Comments (327) | Send Message
     
    I've gotten cynical enough with TG's Kabuki Theatre CC stylings to have thought that "California and Hawaii" was gratuitously thrown into the PR =JUST= because it's the presently trendy thing to produce vast emissions of hopium...
    14 May, 09:56 AM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1634) | Send Message
     
    I wish we had enough clout to take on the 60MW project in HI, but unfortunately that's unlikely....unless we subcontract to major player.
    14 May, 08:35 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2428) | Send Message
     
    Congratulations to Vani for the first actual, commercial order. AFAIK, everything before this have been just prototype orders.

     

    I am not sure what 500 kw means in this context. Normally batteries would be rated by kwh, not kw. Just a handful of batteries could nominally discharge 500 kw for a few seconds. I assume this order is much larger than "just a handful".

     

    Inverters would be rated by kw. The announcement does not mention any inverters, so I assume the electronics are from another supplier, which makes sense.

     

    However, this order does not change my opinion of TG by a single milliwatt.
    14 May, 08:37 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    The PowerCube Axion sold to Bysolar last November for $320,000 was the FIRST commercial order. That system provides 500 kW of up and down regulation from 600 PbC batteries that have ~300 kWh of total capacity.

     

    The sale was for batteries, racks, wiring, data communication system and electronics coordination. The inverters and other power electronics were provided by the customer.

     

    http://bit.ly/1qCCNUr

     

    For applications like FR and short-term renewables integration the energy capacity of a system is typically a footnote because the customer is buying power and rapid cycling.

     

    Just out of curiosity, how many other storage projects can you identify where the customer was spending its own resources for the installation instead of some local, state or Federal grant?

     

    I can't think of any off the top of my head.
    14 May, 08:59 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2428) | Send Message
     
    JP - Not sure what the tizzy is up to. The first order of *anything* is the prototype or test order. I knew Bysolar had bought ONE unit. That order was no more "commercial" than ePower's purchase of 56 batteries a while back. I said "Congratulations" because they had, unlike any other customer of Axion, had actually bought repeat units to go into production, in this case, attach to the grid.

     

    Not NSC, not BMW, not ePower, not anyone, AFAIK, has actually bought items for regular use, as opposed to testing.
    14 May, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Rick,
    "The first order of *anything* is the prototype or test order. I knew Bysolar had bought ONE unit. That order was no more "commercial" than ePower's purchase of 56 batteries a while back. "

     

    I have to disagree when it comes to BySolar. If the earlier purchase had been by PJM or some other utility, I would agree with you that it was just a prototype sale. But BySolar is a business that sells to end user customers. If the system doesn't work, it's their neck and they lose credibility and business in their sales market. Therefore I agree with John that this was a "commercial" sale. IMHO.
    14 May, 09:58 AM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2803) | Send Message
     
    One tizzy could be the fact the some 40 GW of solar will be installed this year worldwide (added to the some 200 GW already installed worldwide). That's nameplate, so .3 it, or some 10 GW of solar usable possibly requiring storage or regulation (and don't forget wind - lot's of it already installed too!).

     

    Could be huge. Regulation driven due to unacceptability to grid. Regulation storage is a small adder to generation capital cost and T&D. And the penalties (revenue for some) for instability which is measured and regulated, will indeed take money our of the consumers pockets one place and redistribute it somewhere else.
    14 May, 04:02 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4203) | Send Message
     
    "I have to disagree when it comes to BySolar. If the earlier purchase had been by PJM or some other utility, I would agree with you that it was just a prototype sale. But BySolar is a business that sells to end user customers."

     

    Rick's point applies just as well to BySolar's customers as it does to other business customers. A repeat sale to/through BySolar for four more installations for the same customer would suggest that BySolar customer was happy enough with their pilot installation to enlarge sample size. Perhaps BySolar or their customer(s) will enlighten us in future.

     

    Meanwhile, IF all the sale announcement batteries are delivered and paid for before end of Q3 the sale will extend Axion's financial runway ~ one month. 2013's cash burn rate averaged ~$650k - $700k per quarter or $215k - $234K per month. Using Al Marshall's guestimate of 25% gross profit margin, today's announced $1.1 million sale would yield ~$275k gross margin or a little over one month cash burn. A 20% margin would imply gross profit of $220k.

     

    Two more sales like that announced today together with today's sale might keep Axion doors open a calendar quarter. Analogous to ignition of rocket motors on the launch pad with lift off remaining to be seen?
    14 May, 08:16 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    05/13/2014: EOD stuff partially copied from the blog (up now).
    # Trds: 24, MinTrSz: 500, MaxTrSz: 45000, Vol: 197697, AvTrSz: 8237
    Min. Pr: 0.1360, Max Pr: 0.1479, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.1397
    # Buys, Shares: 7 26170, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.1432
    # Sells, Shares: 17 171527, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.1391
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:6.55 (13.24% "buys"), DlyShts 10000 (05.06%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 5.83%

     

    The day's low of $0.1360 was set by a single 500 share trade for $0.1360 at the open. The next highest low was one trade of 15,427 shares at $0.1370 followed by three trades at $0.1380 for an aggregate 10K. The high of $0.1479 was set by one trade for 3,170 shares at 11:01. The next lowest high was $0.1449 in three trades with an aggregate 11K volume. I only mention these because of the effects on the chart patterns. The day's low volume makes any further thoughts a waste of time IMO.

     

    The average of the lowest 20 VWAPs times 80% today is: $0.1130 vs. $0.1137, $0.1145, $0.1152, $0.1157, $0.1169, $0.1182, $0.1196, $0.1199 and $0.1191 on prior days. 80% of today's VWAP is $0.1117 vs. $0.1117, $0.1144, $0.1145, $0.1089, $0.1059, $0.1066, $0.1096, $0.1044 and $0.1139 on prior days. These are potential prices for the next tranche of shares to the PIPErs.

     

    Today's low, high, VWAP, trade volume, and daily short sales moved 0.74%, 2.00%, 0.07%, -63.26% and -75.26% respectively. Price spread today was 8.75% vs. 7.41%, 6.44%, 2.84%, 8.46%, 8.29%, 14.44%, 20.00%, 12.60% and 3.86% on prior days. Keep in mind the comments about the low and high above.

     

    The larger trades (>= 15K) occurred on 4 of the 24 trades, 16.67%. These 111,827 shares were 56.56% of day's volume, and traded at a VWAP of $0.1393. None of the larger trades were buys and 100% of the trades were sells so VWAP was the same.

     

    The other 20 trades, 83.33% of the day's trades, traded 85,870 shares, 43.44% of the days volume. The VWAP was $0.1402. 7 trades, ...

     

    Regarding the larger trades, there was one trade, again after the close in today's case, that was “out of band” if you will. It was for 20K at 16:00:25 at $0.14, same as yesterday. As with yesterday it was priced about midpoint of the day's range. Unlike yesterday, we did see a bid of $0.14 ... With today's minuscule volume, especially on the larger trades, I wouldn't use today's larger trades stuff for any decision-making.

     

    My recently added descending resistance, at $0.1393 today, still seems to be in effect with a close below it at $0.1390. This is cutting it razor-thin though. We've had highs above it four consecutive days, but again no penetration on strength. We came back down and closed below each day. Even the single $0.1479 doesn't make me think we will try and make a break up towards $0.15 resistance, but with this volume everything is possible.

     

    The buy percentage continues to weaken (newest to oldest): 13.2%, 14.9%, 28.0% and 65.65%. The daily short sales percentage did what it should, moving to 5.63% ...

     

    The usual is in the blog here.
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    14 May, 08:43 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Over the last six years there have been a gaggle of stationary energy storage demonstration projects around the country.

     

    Substantially all of those projects have been companies spending Uncle Sam's money to prove that stationary storage can work. All of A123's projects were government funded. The same is true for all of Extreme Power's projects, all of the SEPTA projects and almost every other installation I can think of.

     

    While I'm sure there are others, I can't identify any projects other than last November's BySolar sale that involved private parties spending their own money to install solar and storage.

     

    Now there are four more private sales in process.

     

    Is it substantial yet?
    14 May, 08:45 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    John, I read it as these sales being all to the same company as the first, namely to BySolar... Do I have that right?
    14 May, 08:50 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    That's what I inferred. BySolar. Who knows, maybe they'll be the capable marketing group we needed to get this thing in the open. They seem to have a good working relationship with PJM.
    14 May, 08:54 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    48,
    Yep, you have that right. This is exactly what Axion needs, and what Rosewater was supposed to have been for residential cubes. Utilities might come to Axion directly, but businesses are going to want to go through a local integrator who they know. That's why I'm still hopeful that the agreement with Multi-link will eventually lead to battery sales. So now it seems we have an "in" with BySolar and PJM on the East coast. The question will become whether we can use that to find a sales partner(s) on the West coast. I can't be on the CC, but someone should ask TG if they have had any luck trying to find strategic partners in California like they now seem to have with BySolar in the NJ area.

     

    "received a follow-on purchase order for four more PowerCube™ energy storage systems from its strategic partner, a NJ-based solar installer for commercial and residential markets. The Cubes will provide storage for energy created by a commercial solar panel system and service the frequency regulation market on the PJM grid."
    14 May, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2434) | Send Message
     
    General point taken.

     

    Challenge Accepted!
    http://bit.ly/1qCMger

     

    Green Charge Networks is someone to watch as they aggregate.

     

    Forbes, 3/31/2014 @ 11:23AM :

     

    Green Charge Networks: In Some Markets, Cost-Effective Energy Storage Is Already Here

     

    http://onforb.es/1qCMges

     

    Individually, each sale, from a battery standpoint, is tiny. But they are selling real systems to business customers. Over the last couple of years as they have refined their offering, there's no doubt they have used "lots" of public money.

     

    Now?

     

    "Early in March, Green Charge Networks announced receipt of a $10 million financing program from TIP Capital that would allow the company to finance storage products for their customers and eliminate upfront costs.

     

    ...

     

    Kelley was keen to clarify that Green Charge is not in the concept phase, and that they are out in front of the pack. The company currently has 1.5 MW of actual projects, a total of 3.8 MW under contract, and a goal of completing up to 5 MW by year’s end.

     

    I’ve yet to see anyone announce projects in the ground. That’s the piece the industry needs to understand and see. We have Walgreens, UPS, and 7-11, to name a few."

     

    ======================...

     

    Since for example the 7-11 systems are small, I don't think they put out a PR on each contract.

     

    Similar:

     

    California Cities and Businesses Turn to Energy Storage to Lower Increased Electricity Bills
    Visit http://bit.ly/KKHMf4 for further information

     

    Green Charge Networks Pioneers Power Efficiency Agreements to Save Cities and Businesses up to 70%

     

    Submitted on 04/07/14, 05:06 PM

     

    http://bit.ly/1qCMhiy

     

    ""Many people speculate on the potential of energy storage but at Green Charge Networks we've signed customers who are installing the GreenStation energy storage today. We're pleased to enter into this partnership with various cities, retails, and colleges to help the community utilize power more efficiently. Since solar-generated power is now required in new homes in the City of Lancaster, the next evolution will come from intelligent energy storage and power efficiency, which will help offset demand charges," said Steve Kelley, Senior Vice President of Sales at Green Charge Networks. "
    14 May, 10:07 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2434) | Send Message
     
    More GCN:

     

    Is Distributed Storage Coming to Your Neighborhood 7-Eleven?

     

    Green Charge Networks contracts a megawatt of distributed storage projects in California and New York.

     

    Stephen Lacey
    February 4, 2014

     

    http://bit.ly/1frSu6P

     

    "Two years ago, Green Charge Networks developed its first set of customer-located storage projects with stimulus money from New York utility Consolidated Edison. Ever since, the company has been relatively quiet, periodically announcing performance data and software upgrades, but no new projects.

     

    ...

     

    But after making changes to its hardware and software, Green Charge Networks is now unveiling a new set of project agreements worth 1.1 megawatts of cumulative capacity. The portfolio consists of lithium-ion batteries installed at retail stores, colleges and municipal buildings in California and New York.

     

    "We spent a lot of time over the last couple of years looking at data and refining our product," said Vic Shao, the company's CEO. "We were still in R&D mode at that time, and now we're commercializing."

     

    ...

     

    With help from $12 million in stimulus grants, Green Charge Networks built its platform, installing a few projects at 7-Eleven convenience stores and one Avis rental car location in ConEd's territory in 2012. The 7-Eleven stores turned out to be a success story for the company, said Shao, proving the outdoor systems could provide services through Superstorm Sandy and shed load during ConEd's biggest summer peak ever recorded.With help from $12 million in stimulus grants, Green Charge Networks built its platform, installing a few projects at 7-Eleven convenience stores and one Avis rental car location in ConEd's territory in 2012. The 7-Eleven stores turned out to be a success story for the company, said Shao, proving the outdoor systems could provide services through Superstorm Sandy and shed load during ConEd's biggest summer peak ever recorded.

     

    And there's another factor that may help the startup: one early customer is lining up for more. Shao said that 7-Eleven has signed contracts for four more stores in California, with the intention of going much bigger if performance targets are hit.

     

    "If we can prove out a summer’s worth of results in California, then we could see a much larger deployment with 7-Eleven," he said.

     

    Green Charge's new portfolio includes ten projects in California and four in New York. The projects, now filed in the Department of Energy's global storage database as "under construction," also include a Walgreens store and a handful of other commercial and municipal customers."

     

    The link to the database of their projects:

     

    http://bit.ly/1hQatr3
    14 May, 10:22 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2656) | Send Message
     
    WT - Supposedly Green Charge is battery agnostic and I have encouraged Vani to cold call them.
    14 May, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • rastros
    , contributor
    Comments (38) | Send Message
     
    Great news!
    14 May, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (469) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Will be adding Powercube order stuff starting at 09:10. Should take <= 5 minutes.
    14 May, 09:04 AM Reply Like
  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (469) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Starting in 1 minute.
    14 May, 09:09 AM Reply Like
  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (469) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Done with NEW! in Stationary Storage section.
    14 May, 09:13 AM Reply Like
  • raleigh731
    , contributor
    Comments (291) | Send Message
     
    You're a good guy, APH!!
    14 May, 09:57 AM Reply Like
  • RuggedDC
    , contributor
    Comments (327) | Send Message
     
    I believe the gender of APH has not been ascertained...
    14 May, 10:06 AM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1728) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, APH
    14 May, 10:16 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    Personally, I think the host is a hostess. With the mostess.
    14 May, 10:31 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    I think the question now needs to be on the CC, does TG have a good airline miles rewards card, because the company needs to spend a lot of time in Hawaii.
    14 May, 09:05 AM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (722) | Send Message
     
    If he is looking for someone to go in his place, have his people call my people. ;-)
    14 May, 09:51 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    JP> I hope you've sharpened your pencils, because I think there will be a lot of info vis-a-vis your education in stock supply and demand imbalances today.
    14 May, 09:08 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    There's no question in my mind that we're past ZRPSOD so I've got my trusty Big Chief Tablet open and ready for notes.
    14 May, 09:11 AM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (723) | Send Message
     
    PY ! Three things:

     

    1) re: sales. (we gotta sale?) I just noticed your "miles reward card" remark above. I think you're cookin' with gas on that, and such a card will save the company big bucks.

     

    2) In view of the clever observation you made I just now checked your bio. Yale? Here in our little town we're awash in Yale graduates. Got an ophthalmologist from Yale, a bone crusher we share with UVA from Yale, and our local music guru got his PhD. from Yale. I can claim credit for trying to diversify the medical talent by rounding up a doc from Columbia. And here's the good part: she got her master's from Hahvahd.

     

    Yale. That's almost as good as Ivy League.

     

    3) I still don't know if Washington got O-linemen to protect RGIII. I guess I'll have to wait for the NFL draft roundup mags to appear. If you see one would you buy it for me?

     

    Okay, Four Things.

     

    4) first cubes
    second ePower
    third NSC
    14 May, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (723) | Send Message
     
    The room here is M.T.

     

    My own lonely footsteps echo back at me.

     

    Wonder if anybody is checking the tape.

     

    Huh.
    14 May, 09:33 AM Reply Like
  • abcd9876
    , contributor
    Comments (69) | Send Message
     
    Axion Power Announces Order For Four PowerCube™ Energy Storage Systems - Story on Bloomberg.
    14 May, 09:34 AM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (311) | Send Message
     
    SALES!! . . take that all you doubting Thomas' POW!!
    Added 5K@.1475 @09:32:42, all I saw on the ask. Will likely continue adding today.
    14 May, 09:41 AM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (198) | Send Message
     
    " If TG is a man of habit (excluding habitual disappointment {insert snark here}) maybe if a deal is to be announced then tonight is the night."

     

    If I had checked properly I would have seen that the last powercube sale was announced BEFORE open on the Wednesday and not after close. Seems that TG is a man of habit after all.
    14 May, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • Bylo-
    , contributor
    Comments (417) | Send Message
     
    Train leaving the station?
    Boat leaving the dock?
    Rocket blasting off?
    14 May, 09:51 AM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (722) | Send Message
     
    Alcoa is curtailing production in Brazil, so they can sell the power they generate in the open market, because it is more profitable.
    I would have to think that in a situation like that PR and storage would be a nice market to get into....
    So if Tom is looking for someone to go, have his people call my people. ;-)

     

    http://bit.ly/1sNusL4
    14 May, 09:54 AM Reply Like
  • micmac1
    , contributor
    Comments (58) | Send Message
     
    I live in Brazil, the regulatory mark is continuously changing. Till things are stabilized I advise to stay away. BTW solar and wind energy are slowly growing in Brazil but not so much, the main renewable source is hydroelectric.
    14 May, 10:40 AM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (722) | Send Message
     
    Cool, I have a soft goal of moving down there one day. We should talk.
    Interesting shale gas plays starting up down there that could be useful to back up their hydro power on those years they have droughts.

     

    http://bit.ly/1qCVgAg

     

    http://bit.ly/1qCVgAi

     

    I also remember that the sugarcane mills would burn the bagasse fiber to produce electricity.
    14 May, 11:08 AM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (722) | Send Message
     
    I found this:
    Sugarcane electricity
    http://bit.ly/1qDbWHC

     

    •More electricity. The straw can be burned alongside bagasse in high-efficiency boilers to produce even more bio-electricity. Experts estimate that sugarcane bio-electricity could reach 15,827 average megawatts by 2020 if all potential sources are fully developed. That would be enough energy to cover 18 percent of Brazil’s electricity needs. Or looked at another way, it could power an entire country the size of Sweden or Argentina.
    14 May, 12:54 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2428) | Send Message
     
    Arge, one problem with articles like this is they forget that a lot of the biomass proposed for electricity production is needed to replenish the soils. If all the bagasse and straw was efficiently burned in high temperature boilers, the plantations would have to buy more fossil-fuel derived ammonia fertilizer. The low tech burning done now leaves a lot of residual char on the fields.

     

    While I am sure there is some room for improvement if more capital is available, I doubt the output is anywhere near the projections mentioned in this article.
    14 May, 01:02 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (722) | Send Message
     
    Rick, yea, Brazil's sugarcane being enough to power all of Argentina seemed off to me, it was just the 1st example I came across, every mill is also a little power plant.
    But one byproduct of turning cane into sugar (beside the well known ethanol) is a fertilizer. I recommend a tour if you get the chance.
    http://bit.ly/1os9r9h
    14 May, 07:19 PM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (198) | Send Message
     
    Can I ask the board a question. Please excuse my ignorance but what do we think this market is potentially worth to AXPW? I assume there are competitors in the space. Can AXPW rise above the others as the preferred technology for solar farms? Wind farms?

     

    Can the world be full of power cubes in 10 years? How many MW are we possibly looking at for annual sales for AXPW if they get REAL traction?
    14 May, 09:54 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    dance621,
    I think it is hard to say with so many factors in play. Sandy has had a big impact on planning in the NY-NJ area. There is going to be a lot of money spent on energy storage and back-up power. Some of that it just going to be stand alone storage, which I think will go more towards LA or Li-ion depending on how much space a building has and how long they want the back-up power to last. Where Axion has a real shot is on the buildings where they are planning on putting in solar as well. Now Axion and BySolar has a real shot because they can show them a commercial system that not only allows them to use solar energy to recharge the batteries, but also to make money on the FR market, so that the system makes some money and just doesn't sit there. Time will tell just how big of a market that is. IMHO.
    14 May, 10:41 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    I think you can pick almost any number you like for the addressable stationary storage market. I've seen serious players estimate up to $200 billion in demand for stationary storage systems over the next decade.

     

    It's one of those markets that's so immense nobody will ever dominate, but there will be plenty of room for legions of profitable companies that each stake out their own niche.
    14 May, 10:47 AM Reply Like
  • Bill Burtchaell
    , contributor
    Comments (412) | Send Message
     
    John your confidence and supporting statements regarding Axion for over 2 years has been my guide to staying with the company stock.
    I regard this order as a game changer for several reasons, but most of all it's real. Most of the penny stocks as you have pointed out many times, are shell corps or great front end stories ripe for manipulation and volatility. Axion is a real company with many believers, employees and investors. For certain there is a very talented team of folks from TG on down the ladder, who do what they do driven by the concept and the products. While so many conceptual products in the battery /energy storage industry spend much time lobbying for federal grants and subsidies, the folks at Axion have been methodically working to improve and prove to the world that our batteries are different and they possess qualities that our competitors do not.
    No question that prospects on the edge will certainly take notice and their confidence will grow from this order.
    Yes, I have bought and sold AXPW many times over the past year, my confidence has been tested time and again. Somehow I feel very good right now and this power cube order, coupled with the promise of your venture with ePower and others, is in my opinion, a tremendous positive indicator. 
    14 May, 11:51 AM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2803) | Send Message
     
    If Axion got the California business for storage by 2020, at the $1 million for 4 systems price, we're looking at $125 million annually. Problem is not all is battery. But, AXPW could produce all the storage batteries required with existing capacity. And if this is not true, the correct facts will soon be coming by others comments.
    14 May, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (723) | Send Message
     
    Begging the board's tolerance here:

     

    Good news surprise for PLUG and we jump to $ 0.21.

     

    Good news for Axion and we jump to $ 0.16 (so far)

     

    Y'gotta admit that's worth a chuckle. :>)
    14 May, 10:05 AM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (198) | Send Message
     
    Maybe people are not understanding the significance of this order. For me this order signifies the first "real" commercial order. There is no "testing" associated with this order. What this order is, is a validation that Axion's technology has a niche in the real world market place. And if it is worthwhile for a company who knows the technology the best to spend 1M then that is even better. There is little chance of customer dissatisfaction as they already use one.

     

    I am guessing now but look for strength throughout the day closing 30% higher. A fall in price or retreat would be due to tension going into the CC or potential investor disappointment that the big news (if this is it) is not as big as investors were hoping for. But gauging the mood on the board it seemed that this is an improvement on the potential for little or no news that people were quietly preparing themselves for.
    14 May, 10:17 AM Reply Like
  • kevin lemm
    , contributor
    Comments (121) | Send Message
     
    Must be Patient grasshopper
    14 May, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    If anyone is still confused about why we need off the OTC, the bid-ask spread is over a penny on a $0.16 stock!
    14 May, 10:28 AM Reply Like
  • Masi
    , contributor
    Comments (479) | Send Message
     
    Patrick, If buyers don't want to raise their bid or sellers won't drop their ask, it doesn't matter what exchange we are on.
    14 May, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • jcrjg
    , contributor
    Comments (174) | Send Message
     
    In January Axion said:

     

    "In 2013, PJM's revenue payments per MW averaged more than $18,500.~ net per month after expenses, at a conservative 80%~ participation rate."

     

    Given today's announcement are we to conclude that a 1 MW system costs ~$550k?
    14 May, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    I am looking at the trader's cheat sheet for support, resistance.

     

    http://bit.ly/zPTNxJ
    14 May, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (311) | Send Message
     
    Nice link metro, thanks.
    14 May, 10:53 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    It misses on quite a few other bits of technical analysis, but a bit of entertainment while watching share price today.
    14 May, 10:55 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2434) | Send Message
     
    Contract: Great/welcome news.

     

    Odd: Is this any way to treat a "strategic partner?"

     

    "from its strategic partner, a NJ-based solar installer for commercial and residential markets. "

     

    http://bit.ly/1sNH4St
    14 May, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (787) | Send Message
     
    So far it appears that the PIPERs are no longer around to pounce on the stock! Looks like your beliefs are taking shape JP!
    14 May, 10:56 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    We're seeing patterns that I'd consider normal, but none of the pushing and shoving at the pay window we saw with the PIPErs. If the pattern holds for the rest of the day I'll consider ZRPSOD a historical fact.
    14 May, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • Josh Greene
    , contributor
    Comments (77) | Send Message
     
    314K at .18 is a nice bid
    14 May, 10:58 AM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    will be interesting to see if we retest 20 cents this week.

     

    my wag is yes, because many of the sellers have been cleared out. pipers' stock gone, complainers' stock gone or being removed as we speak
    14 May, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1842) | Send Message
     
    Anyone have experience with financing negotiations want to chip in on how this helps Axion's valuation in the next round?

     

    At the very least it buys them another month of runway, but even better it demonstrates the potential for sales growth.
    14 May, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2434) | Send Message
     
    No experience, but I observe (shockingly!) precious few details offered so far ...

     

    Will this motto catch on?

     

    "Axion .. the NDA company" :-)

     

    no idea what the profit margin is.

     

    TG has shown no indication to offer "loss leaders," but it's a competitive jungle out there, the natives are restless, and it's hard to put a value on some real PR, more real data, and the need to actually "keep a promise" to the shareholders. So it might be an interesting spread sheet.

     

    no idea when the systems are to be delivered.

     

    no idea how fast BySolar can actually install them.

     

    no idea if BySolar will do it right ... .repeatedly.

     

    no idea when the customers will be ready for them.

     

    Hopefully, yesterday.

     

    Not trying to rain on the parade ... just everything always seems to take way longer than we anticipate.

     

    Expect the worst (or at least below average) and you perhaps will be pleasantly surprised. It would be a welcome change.
    14 May, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2656) | Send Message
     
    Dang WT - you may have wrestled the wet blanket award away from me this morning. Nevertheless, I agree.
    14 May, 11:35 AM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (311) | Send Message
     
    Good (reality check) comments WT.

     

    All wise, good, and well to "Expect the worst", for proper context however, the other half of the adage is 'hope for the best'.
    14 May, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • kevin lemm
    , contributor
    Comments (121) | Send Message
     
    wt, I couldn’t disagree more,
    What you’re asking for seems unrealistic for a sales announcement. You want profit margins? Delivery dates? The customers Implementation schedule? As well as their installation success ratio?
    I don’t know any company that offers that information.
    GE manufactures hundreds locomotives annually, GE doesn’t release specific order figures.
    14 May, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2428) | Send Message
     
    Ranma - I don't see "At the very least it buys them another month of runway".

     

    The sale of these batteries does not have 100% gross margin. A significant part of the order is for non-Axion manufactured gear, such as racks, wiring, containers, etc.

     

    We do not have any indication of terms. It may take Axion several months to ship the product, and I would be pleasantly surprised if Axion actually receives good funds within 45 days of shipping. Even with nominal net 30 terms, I wouldn't be surprised if Bysolar procrastinates payment until they themselves are paid by their customer. Even assuming there is some down payment upon placing the order, I doubt it would be enough to cover all the direct cost of getting the order out the door.
    14 May, 01:23 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9574) | Send Message
     
    Kevin, Axion did go out of their way to point out some level of delivery timing and payment terms in the last Bysolar sale announcement. So not so unreasonable. Like most companies TG likes to accentuate the positives and leave the risk to the shareholders.
    14 May, 01:47 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1842) | Send Message
     
    No, it doesn't have 100% margin but since Axion burns 2M a quarter, it only needs 667k per month. So if it gets just over half margin, not unreasonable for a manufactured product, it gets to that amount. Even better if the PbCs are coming out of inventory.

     

    Delivery and payment may be months away, but right now it is May and Axion doesn't need money until Q4. Sure it could come close but as far as negotiations go, I think we can count it as a month of runway.
    14 May, 01:48 PM Reply Like
  • kevin lemm
    , contributor
    Comments (121) | Send Message
     
    wt, after further thought, I have come to the realization that you were commenting on information needed to asses Axions near term valuation, rather than on expectations of a sales announcement. My apologies, kevin
    14 May, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2434) | Send Message
     
    Kevin ... exactly so. Thanks for saving me the typing!
    14 May, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    IIndelco
    With 4 cubes, it is possible there will be more than one delivery date.
    14 May, 06:30 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9574) | Send Message
     
    Froggey, Understood. Just trying to point out that it can and did happen and there can and are reasons why sharing this information can be perceived with different weight as it relates to Axion's short term needs.

     

    All in all the announcement is a darn good thing but more information is never a bad thing for the investor as long as it customer relationships and competitors are weighed in the process.
    14 May, 06:58 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1511) | Send Message
     
    My humblest apologies if link was posted before.

     

    There is a bysolar video presentation in the link that explains the economics of producing solar energy as well as some cost information. No mention of Axion. However, do show profit being made with only using only solar without storage. Could expect that profit and payback would be greater/sooner if frequency regulation etc, were included in profit opportunities.
    http://bit.ly/1sNMgpv
    14 May, 11:10 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1038) | Send Message
     
    Congrats to Axion on its first repeat commercial sale. A little smaller than I hoped for in terms of dollars, but still enough that I would consider this to meet the "significant sale" within "not six months" criterion.

     

    Assuming they are able to deliver the 2 MW of power cubes mostly out of existing inventory, the $1.1M in revenue should extend their runway to the next financing by another month. All we need is another 20 sales like that per year and we might get close to a sustainable business.

     

    In the last CC, I got the impression that perhaps tens of MW worth of PC sales were in the works. It will be interesting to learn if BySolar is planning a continuing series of such installations and if any other PC sales initiatives, such as to Island nations, have made similar progress.
    14 May, 11:12 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    "California, for example, has come to recognize the importance of combining storage with renewables and the state recently enacted an energy storage mandate that requires California utilities to acquire 1325MW of new energy storage by 2020. We believe the PowerCube has shown it can be an effective part of any energy power distribution system and we plan to participate in opportunities such as those presented by initiatives in California and Hawaii".

     

    I take this as a pretty big hint that TG et al are not sitting around waiting for someone in California to give them a call - they are in hot pursuit.

     

    D
    14 May, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • Billion003
    , contributor
    Comments (210) | Send Message
     
    So with the "axionista" stock being diluted at some point and the internally held stock not being diluted won't that change the inside share/external share ownership ratio, or percentages? I understand the dilution ratio will not be known when voting occurs but for the dilution ranges bandied about - 1:20 to 1:50 - has anyone run any numbers on the ownership ratio change? I seen concern here in this regard but not actual numbers relative to this ratio or percentage. Or am I all wet in assuming this ownership ratio will change.
    14 May, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1842) | Send Message
     
    Which internally held stock are you referring to? The preferred shares were already converted to common during the 2009 financing.
    14 May, 11:22 AM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    ranma, pdftt
    14 May, 11:34 AM Reply Like
  • Billion003
    , contributor
    Comments (210) | Send Message
     
    Ranma,
    Actually, I'm confused by how shares have been labeled. Mainly, my questions refers to the stock that's going to be diluted in contrast to the stock that's not going to be diluted and whether, or by how much, the overall ownership percentages will change for those that own the to-be-diluted shares when the dilution occurs.
    The word, "authorized shares," was used a number of times, and this leads to questions on my part.
    14 May, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1842) | Send Message
     
    Billion since there are no preferred shares and only one class of common, everyone will be diluted equally.

     

    Authorized shares only mean how many shares a corporation can issue, without "raising" the limit with another SEC filing. It's an artificial limit and not very meaningful these days. Sort of how the US reaches its borrowing limits and then Congress arbitrarily raises the debt ceiling.

     

    Please read JP's comments on issuing shares on NASDAQ however. The company cannot issue beyond a certain percentage without stockholder approval. Thus Axion would in the far likelihood never reach the authorized share limit after a RS.
    14 May, 11:51 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (1038) | Send Message
     
    Billion, based on the 350 million post-split authorized shares, the potential dilution in ownership percentage to existing shares, if all those shares ever got issued, could be anywhere from 35-to-1 to as great as 90-to-1. Whether that results in a dilution of value, depends on what kind of discount those shares are sold for and whether the money they gain is used to add value and produces sales, or to just to continue to keep the lights and pay management bonuses while they do not sell any batteries.

     

    To me it all boils down to whether they can sell batteries sooner rather than later. Today was good news in that department, but they still need to be selling 20 or 40 times that amount per year to be sustainable.
    14 May, 12:02 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Billion> Every corporation has a provision in its Articles or Certificate of Incorporation that specifies the maximum number of shares the board of directors has the authority to issue without amending its Articles or Certificate of Incorporation.

     

    If you'd like you can think of authorized capital as a stack of blank stock certificates sitting on a shelf in the office supply cabinet.

     

    As a corporation sells stock for cash or exchanges stock for property, it takes blank certificates off the shelf and issues them to the person who paid the money or contributed the property. Every time it does so the board of directors has to (a) determine whether the cash or property constitutes fair compensation for the shares, and (b) reach an affirmative decision that issuing the shares is in the best interest of the issuer and its stockholders.

     

    At any given point in time, 100% of the company is owned by the holders of stock that was properly issued by the company. The size of the stack of stock certificates sitting in the supply cabinet is irrelevant unless you're convinced that management and the board are going to neglect their fiduciary duties and issue new shares without due regard for the consideration the corporation will receive in the transaction.
    14 May, 12:39 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    A great surprise in my inbox this morning. My first thought was Customer #1 has arrived but then that's what I thought with ePower and their follow on order. How is this one different?

     

    http://bit.ly/1k3Uu6i
    14 May, 11:33 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2428) | Send Message
     
    Tim, I would classify the Bysolar order different because I think the product will be delivered to a (or several, not clear from press release) paying customer of Bysolar.

     

    The 2nd ePower order was for more internal testing and development, and AFAIK one cannot buy a standardized ePower truck today.
    14 May, 12:30 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    ePower is still developing a Class 8 tractor that will suit the needs of persnickety truck drivers who want to be able to haul 65,000 to 80,000 at 65 miles per hour. When ePower placed the order, Jay Bowman believed the John Deere four banger would be good enough. Jay was wrong and the process of integrating the Cummins six was more complex than any of us imagined.

     

    When you're doing something totally new and different, timelines tend to slip.

     

    AFAIK the dynamic is different when an outfit like BySolar is simply selling a fully developed product to an eager market that doesn't question whether the product will work as advertised.
    14 May, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Customer #1 then it is... and the largest order to date! It would be fun to visit New Castle to see the assembly lines loaded with the PbC...

     

    [them persnickety truck drivers want CPST <smile>]
    14 May, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Mercifully them persnickety truck drivers don't want to pay for CPST. It's a great solution if you can make buying decisions based on 12 year TCO, but a little tougher when you live hand to mouth; a phenomenon I've heard is fairly common.

     

    Ultimately I wish CPST the best of luck because there's plenty of room in heavy trucking for a host of successful competitors.

     

    Seriously even 1% of a 250,000 tractor per year rebuild market would be $250 million in revenue for ePower and $50 million in revenue for Axion. Give me a few points of market penetration and my wildest dreams of avarice will be more than sated.
    14 May, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • KillaCycle
    , contributor
    Comments (549) | Send Message
     
    Seems like ePower is doing quite a _lot_ of unnecessary "cut and try" type R&D.

     

    Haven't you done the basics of running any one of the multitude of software hybrid simulations, in LabView or Matlab, etc. before you began actually building? A few simulator sessions would have whittled down your choices of engine size, motor size, battery pack size, gearing etc. instead of wasting time and money actually trying all possibilities such as a 4 cylinder and a 6 cylinder engine.

     

    The National Science Foundation has funded several. Here is one:
    http://bit.ly/1qDDXih~du7600/HEVSim/HEVSim/...
    MatLab has the HEV simulator application on line (You must buy MatLab, however):
    http://bit.ly/1qDDXij
    There are countless commercial HEV simulators as well.
    14 May, 04:01 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Real innovation comes from cut and try type R&D. If ePower was traveling the same path as everybody else your proposed process would work flawlessly. Since it doesn't want to play me too, your proposed process is basically meaningless. This is one of those times when the only thing that matters is the performance of the tractor on the road with 50,000 pounds of trailer and cargo.
    14 May, 04:22 PM Reply Like
  • KillaCycle
    , contributor
    Comments (549) | Send Message
     
    Ah, I see.

     

    Good luck with the classic "cut and try" method versus modeling the basic system on a computer first.
    14 May, 05:01 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9574) | Send Message
     
    Killa, both can work depending on the inputs and what you are trying to achieve.

     

    And hey, once in awhile those using computer modeling make a mistake and come up with a real pearl!

     

    In the case of ePower they are trying to initially take advantage of a common rebuild cycle to integrate some pretty well known technology. But there are risks for sure as the system they are looking to integrate is pretty complex given their resources. But it sounds like it's interesting enough that they have the attention of a couple biggies so they aren't all wet or they wouldn't waste their time.
    14 May, 05:11 PM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    will also be interesting to see if this news taps into some of the big money that poured into plug and others recently. some of those investors might conclude that axion is a potential player, and at a still dirt-cheap price

     

    that was a very big thing for those stocks, in a short time they went up huge. i don't think we need that money to go a lot higher, but that would be rocket fuel for the fire
    14 May, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1842) | Send Message
     
    Can anyone see which MM the 320k bid at 18 is from?
    14 May, 11:50 AM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    atdf
    14 May, 11:53 AM Reply Like
  • Billion003
    , contributor
    Comments (210) | Send Message
     
    Do any of the posters here talk by phone to each other? Perhaps I need to talk to JP but would welcome a conversation with a knowledgeable stockholder.
    14 May, 11:51 AM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    Billion
    Post questions and everybody can learn from them.
    14 May, 06:00 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    I'm always willing to talk Billion, but I agree that it's usually best to ask public questions and get public answers. Besides, there are a lot of people around this board that know more than I do on many subjects.
    14 May, 06:07 PM Reply Like
  • Long-Time
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    With this announcement today, can we assume this is a current quarter sale? If so, in the Q1 release tomorrow might we see additional sales that were covered by NDA(s) and closed in Q1?
    Is it possible TG has some in his pocket that are within his 6 month window? He did seem pretty eager to get to this call on Friday to have his thunder stolen by himself with this press release...
    14 May, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    Sales will count when they ship. They will not be in Q1 as this is for a purchase order.
    14 May, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    I wouldn't count on it as a Q2 sale either. If BySolar is like most small companies they create an order book and fill those orders sequentially. Hopefully Tom will add some color on Friday.
    14 May, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • nakedjaybird
    , contributor
    Comments (2803) | Send Message
     
    Remember, the four powercube sales are about the equivalent of some 10-30 ePower hybrid systems.
    14 May, 04:25 PM Reply Like
  • Shirleyr
    , contributor
    Comments (93) | Send Message
     
    I think Mr. Granville will since I am one of those who trusts him. As a speculative investor, in some ways, I do know if you don't trust management then move on.
    14 May, 04:58 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    Someone just unloaded 300,005 shares in a block trade that hit the bid of 310K at the time. And another 10K that cleared the bid out.

     

    HardToLove
    14 May, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • Shirleyr
    , contributor
    Comments (93) | Send Message
     
    There is a clearing out period for those who were only in for a trade or short term. This doesn't surprise me.
    14 May, 05:00 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    Shirleyr: Me neither. Since $0.18 was a pretty strong resistance in the past I was expecting some selling when I saw where we were headed.

     

    Likewise, the fact that we came back below $0.18 fit's that scenario.

     

    I'm just hoping it doesn't just repeat the 3/5-3/12 scenario when it popped big on (everyone's best guess?) news that Kia was doing something with a "lead carbon" battery. After that pop faded we dropped below $0.18, went sideways between $0.18-$0.15 for a month and then dropped below $0.15 and did some more mostly sideways.

     

    HardToLove
    14 May, 05:40 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (879) | Send Message
     
    Well ePower is next in line to move the needle so my guess is sideways and up. Depending of course on the feelings after the con call. There may be no sideways.
    14 May, 08:46 PM Reply Like
  • rhyse12
    , contributor
    Comments (187) | Send Message
     
    Staying level here.
    I believe in the product, which has endured and passed a series of testing cycles that were both diverse and vigorous.
    Now the product is being shipped, slowly and in small amounts, to the commercial market to determine if the "blackboard and Lab results" will be delivered to the real world.

     

    Like we all started in our own lives, a few small steps in what will hopefully be a long profitable journey. Giddy up!( sorry, a bit of unbridled enthusiasm).
    14 May, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • Shirleyr
    , contributor
    Comments (93) | Send Message
     
    Life is that way, one step at a time. For those invested in AXPW, the question is ready for freedom or another lesson. Given my path to-date, I would say freedom.
    14 May, 05:02 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Congratulations to Axion Power, and the Axionistas!

     

    Even better, my only niece got engaged last night.
    14 May, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (311) | Send Message
     
    Congrats to you Maya, your family, niece, and her intended. Oh yes, and all AXPW longs.
    14 May, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2145) | Send Message
     
    Congrats Maya
    14 May, 01:24 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1170) | Send Message
     
    congrats to your family Maya.
    14 May, 01:26 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2428) | Send Message
     
    Congrats, Maya. I hope she get some good Mayan sea salt for good luck!
    14 May, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    Congrats to your niece Maya!

     

    May the couple have a long and happy life together!

     

    HardToLove
    14 May, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, everyone!
    14 May, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    So Mayascribe will have another story to record? :-)
    14 May, 06:06 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Funny, Frog, in a coincidental way!

     

    My niece is marrying a videographer, who is working on a full-length. modern day, anthropological documentary about farming in the Philippines, especially about one amazing woman named, Talaca.

     

    He is heading back to the Philippines with his crew in June or July, to complete filming the project, which was just fully funded two days ago.

     

    Here's the link, and even though it's my niece's brand new fiancé, the work he is doing is truly impressive. He's a sharp guy, and has wonderful camera presence:

     

    http://kck.st/1oQlvhM

     

    Apparently, there's some significant interest from The History Channel, Nova, and the Travel Channel.

     

    My niece has also written some short film scripts, which when explained sound very humorous, dark, twisted, edgy...to the point where she absolutely does not want my other sister from Ohio to see.

     

    Filming should be done in a few months, and when completed, with her permission, I will link them over in QuickChat. I can't wait!

     

    Proud day in Mayascribe's home!
    14 May, 07:00 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    Nice video. I hope they get to do it. The place looks fabulous.
    14 May, 08:58 PM Reply Like
  • Larry Meade
    , contributor
    Comments (105) | Send Message
     
    What a difference a day makes! My congratulations to the management team at Axion. While this is not an earth shattering order, it is a beginning of commercial sales with further information before a larger audience.

     

    Know we will have to see what kind of legs this news has?
    14 May, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • Shirleyr
    , contributor
    Comments (93) | Send Message
     
    If it's on Bloomberg, it's starting out with a pair of good legs.
    14 May, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • nym
    , contributor
    Comments (353) | Send Message
     
    Hey, buy-on-news guys: should I sell now at 70-80% profit, or wait a couple of days for more?

     

    Actually I'll hold, but I just wanted to reminded you there are willing sellers.
    14 May, 01:46 PM Reply Like
  • nym
    , contributor
    Comments (353) | Send Message
     
    I apologize for killing the market with my comment.

     

    It's standoff time again: >40k bid and asked with a price difference of only about $0.002.
    14 May, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • Shirleyr
    , contributor
    Comments (93) | Send Message
     
    You are adding to the volume and that is important, buy or sell.
    14 May, 05:06 PM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    nym, excellent job of buying!

     

    to have such an unrealized gain means you bought at about $.10, which means you already rode it up to $.23 last time then back down to $.13 then back up to $.18+ without selling. probably not an easy decision this time around!
    14 May, 08:04 PM Reply Like
  • tomcat818
    , contributor
    Comments (42) | Send Message
     
    Dipped my little toe in the Axion pool today w/ 50K shares... Long time coming since I've followed this company for 6yrs without buying a share. They showed me they can string a couple of orders together within a reasonable time frame along with the potential of other markets opening in the future. Still definitely a long term investment at this point IMHO.

     

    Anyway, noticed bysolar is also or had been using Sun Xtender AGM batteries. Hopefully their eyes are fully open to the benefit of using PbC.

     

    http://bit.ly/1g5YXcR

     

    http://bit.ly/1nOEABg
    14 May, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • GambleAholic
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    awesome, mr tomcat. i would not be surprised if a lot more lurkers start establishing positions now. that would be a big deal and those new buyers also help extend the average time horizon.
    14 May, 02:25 PM Reply Like
  • obieephyhm
    , contributor
    Comments (1593) | Send Message
     
    Congrats to TG, the directors and the whole Axion team for today's sales announcement. You guys don't hear it enough . . .
    14 May, 02:40 PM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (198) | Send Message
     
    Approx 1.5M shares traded on 4 PCs order. Doesnt seem like enough. Even so the rally seems to be holding. I always get confused with double counts etc but does that mean just under US$300k traded? Imagine what 10M shares trading hands would do to price.
    14 May, 02:49 PM Reply Like
  • Al Marshall
    , contributor
    Comments (531) | Send Message
     
    I'm relieved. To me, this order satisfied the "...it won't be six months" promise.

     

    We'll probably learn more details on Friday and in particular if this is similar to the ePower agreement where the buyer will take delivery of the additional units over time.

     

    Regardless, it looks like we have an end customer (Could be more than one but I'm assuming just one) who decided to place additional orders either before the first one entered commercial service or immediately thereafter. As others have pointed out, clearly we're beyond any concern for testing or teething type problems with no concern about direct government subsidies (excluding tax breaks for solar). If one customer has made a pure "Commercial" based decision and confirmed that decision with a follow-on order, then I think the odds of additional customers coming to the same conclusions are extremely high.

     

    Regardless of the presently unknown details, today is a very good day for Axion and us Axionistas!

     

    14 May, 02:56 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1842) | Send Message
     
    I'll be very eager to hear about BySolar's customer pipeline. I hope they can reveal who they sold it to, to help us gauge future orders. Having a larger follow on order suggests that their product will sell well in the future.
    14 May, 02:59 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    Ranma, BySolar is unlikely to have a very large customer base. Incremental sales is all you can expect from an installer of homegrown micro-grids. More importantly we have real business transactions for our PowerCube, which is going to carry a lot of weight when we make an offer to a utility like Hawaii Electric. How can we trust the price and performance metrics they quote us? Because they've sold five units to two customers already and the price they're quoting is a lot less than Li-ion.
    14 May, 03:05 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2428) | Send Message
     
    Al, my understanding of the tax break for solar is that it includes all the storage costs installed at the same time. I toyed with the idea of a $10,000 battery bank/inverter to be charged with a single 100 watt panel, and was told "That's fine!". NJ has particularly generous tax credits.

     

    I don't know how reliable the installer's tax advice was.
    14 May, 04:52 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    Isnt this the very issue that the complaint about Musk's Solar City in that they submit the whole package for Federal Credits and a true reading of the thing only covers the materials and not the labor.
    14 May, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (1533) | Send Message
     
    I hope this victory gives the guys in New Castle as much confidence as it gives me.

     

    TG is swinging for the fences with CA and HI. Good for him.
    14 May, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    After all that is said and done, it wasn't 6 months.

     

    Kudos to Mr. Granville who kept his promise and to those who kept their faith.
    14 May, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1842) | Send Message
     
    PVCT to uplist from OTC to NYSE, and is up 26.4% on the news. PVCT is a biotech company, who like Axion has huge future revenue potential but short term cash problems.

     

    http://bit.ly/1qDzzA0

     

    The RS/uplist should similarly be great for AXPW.
    14 May, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    I truly believed Mr. Granville would keep his promise, so I had no clue, no reasonable story as to why they put the news out as they did.
    What SHOULD and COULD and WOULD have been bullish news with the co-announcement of sales INSTEAD became a fiasco. Epic failure of marketing remains inscrutable to me.
    14 May, 03:47 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1509) | Send Message
     
    Axion Int'l up 16% in a sympathy rally!
    14 May, 03:34 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1842) | Send Message
     
    Apparently the other Axion (OTCQB:AXIH) also had sales and earnings news today.

     

    TODAY SHALL BE KNOWN AS AXION DAY.
    14 May, 03:37 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (658) | Send Message
     
    AXIH reported more sales yesterday.

     

    http://bit.ly/1qDASyY
    14 May, 03:39 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    And don't forget the prior news that Q revenue already exceeded all of last year's.

     

    HardToLove
    14 May, 05:43 PM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (198) | Send Message
     
    And all those on seeking alpha now asleep shall feel themselves acursed and hold their manhoods cheap they were not here on this St Axions's day
    14 May, 07:09 PM Reply Like
  • Renzo
    , contributor
    Comments (352) | Send Message
     
    We few, we happy few.
    14 May, 07:11 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (787) | Send Message
     
    ATDF has been very active on both sides today but they are now showing 466,000 shares offered at $.1780! Somebody is not excited about today's release and is dumping!
    14 May, 03:47 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9574) | Send Message
     
    Nobody in their right mind would get out that way if they really wanted to sell at that price. This is a clear sign of a game player IMO.
    14 May, 04:04 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1551) | Send Message
     
    @RBrun347: I suspect it's just somebody selling the rip. It could also be MM garden variety parlor ticks. I'd be interested to see what the Buy/Sell ratio is today. My guess is around 70 to 80 percent.
    14 May, 06:26 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    O.R.: Started of exactly like you were thinking. Running strong in the high 60%+ into 70% plus. Later in the day, the sell into strength kicked in and we ended at 1:1.33 (42.26% "buys"). But that was strongly affected by 300K (+10K more to take out the bid) "sell".

     

    Removing those two trades, 1.07:1 (50.78% "buys").

     

    Regardless, both ratios aren't bad. Just not indicative, yet, of a push up like seen in the distant past when *averages* ran consistently around 60%.

     

    HardToLove
    15 May, 06:21 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    ATDF offers 466K @ $0.178 15:43

     

    HardToLove
    14 May, 03:47 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (787) | Send Message
     
    That might put a cap on this run for the day! Unless there is somebody riding in on a white stallion with $83,000.00 spare change that wants to invest!
    14 May, 03:51 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2434) | Send Message
     
    Maya's Niece?

     

    Maya's Niece's Dad?

     

    :-)
    14 May, 04:00 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9574) | Send Message
     
    Ahhh, what fun.
    14 May, 04:01 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2893) | Send Message
     
    HT,

     

    Did that offer seem legit? An Axionista wanting out? Or do you suspect MM games?
    14 May, 08:38 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    Bazooooka: Can't make a SWAG. Wasn't able to track as closely as usual today because of the frequent and rapid bid/ask changes going on.

     

    I will note that the "sells" of 310K (in trades of 300K & 10K) at $0.18 at 12:52 were with ATDF on that bid at 12:07 (last entry prior to 12:52) and that order was filled.

     

    The 466K offer being only one step back from best offer at the time, $0.177, could be read either way without a longer look. ATDF was best on the bid then at $0.1765 (15:38 peek), so the offer may have been just to encourage folks to hit the bid. But that bid was only 16K and also was not one of the "standard" 10K ATDF normally uses. If they were trying to manipulate I would think the bid would be 10K or 5K.

     

    We do have to keep in mind that the 466K quantity offered could be the aggregate of many, many smaller orders being handled by ATDF, although appearing all at once makes this seem less likely.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    15 May, 06:43 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    FWI: The 2009 Federal Business Investment Tax Credit Act has been extended to Dec. 31, 2016. This allows a business to receive a 30% tax credit for solar installations. The tax credit has no ceiling.

     

    More details in the below link, including that the incentivized tax credit program will be lowered to 10% after Dec. 31, 2016. (Get busy Bysolar!)

     

    http://bit.ly/1qDCUyT

     

    Further, NJ waives all sales taxes for solar installations. And also has a low interest rate Revolving Fund available for both commercial and residential installations. The fund started in 2011 -- I have no idea if it's been extended, or refunded.

     

    I also wonder if there's some form of accelerated depreciation that can be used. There was, back in 2012, but I can't find if that program was extended, too.
    14 May, 03:55 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13542) | Send Message
     
    The 50% bonus depreciation from the Feds was retroactively renewed for 2013 and 2012 last year, and set to expire Dec 31, 2013. The 30% solar tax credit is still in force, as you mention...

     

    Its a good bet that Congress will once again make a late change to keep the bonus depreciation provision in the tax laws for 2014, but not certain by any means.

     

    Many States have their own programs, some of which are very substantial, particularly if the person or business making the investment have large incomes in those states subject to state income taxes.

     

    This site has an extensive database of tax incentives for "renewable energy": http://www.dsireusa.org

     

    Here is the astounding list for NJ:

     

    Industry Recruitment/Support •Edison Innovation Clean Energy Manufacturing Fund - Grants and Loans
    •Edison Innovation Green Growth Fund Loans
    •Wind Manufacturing Tax Credit
    Other Incentive •PSE&G - Solar Loan Program
    •Utility Solar Financing Programs (ACE, JCP&L, RECO)
    PACE Financing •Local Option - Property Assessed Clean Energy Financing
    Performance-Based Incentive •Grid-Connected Renewables Program
    •Solar Renewable Energy Certificates (SRECs)
    Property Tax Incentive •Assessment of Farmland Hosting Renewable Energy Systems
    •Property Tax Exemption for Renewable Energy Systems
    Sales Tax Incentive •Solar Energy Sales Tax Exemption
    State Grant Program •Clean Energy Solutions Large Scale CHP and Fuel Cells Program
    •Small Scale CHP and Fuel Cell Incentive Program
    State Loan Program •Clean Energy Solutions Energy Efficiency Revolving Loan Fund
    •Home Performance with Energy Star Program
    State Rebate Program •COOLAdvantage Program
    •ENERGY STAR Homes Program
    •Energy Star Product Rebates
    •Home Performance with Energy Star Program
    •New Jersey Comfort Partners Program
    •New Jersey Renewable Energy Incentive Program
    •New Jersey SmartStart Buildings - Direct Install Program
    •New Jersey SmartStart Buildings - New Construction and Retrofits
    •New Jersey SmartStart Buildings - Pay for Performance Program
    •WARMAdvantage Program
    Utility Grant Program •PSE&G - Commercial Efficiency Program
    •PSE&G - Government Facility Efficiency Program
    Utility Loan Program •New Jersey Natural Gas - SAVEGREEN On-Bill Financing Program
    Utility Rebate Program •New Jersey Natural Gas - SAVEGREEN Residential Rebate Program
    •PSE&G - Residential Efficiency Program
    14 May, 04:23 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    IIRC the 30% ITC includes the cost of any storage components that are installed at the same time as the new solar system.
    14 May, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    JP: I believe that's the case. Dollars to dognuts, TG will be talking about government incentivized solar programs on Friday.
    14 May, 05:07 PM Reply Like
  • Amouna
    , contributor
    Comments (1634) | Send Message
     
    What is St Elon smoking these days? hundreds of Gigafactories???!!!!!!!!

     

    http://bloom.bg/1qDM8eI
    14 May, 05:00 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Amouna,
    Well, he's correct. That is, if you replace "all" current ICE engines with electric drives using his battery packs, you would need 200 gigafactories, according to the article. Let that sink in and then you will understand why it will never be more than a niche market. Basically, the stock is down, since the CC, and he's trying to keep Tesla in everyone's mind by doing multiple PR interviews and saying lots of provocative things.
    14 May, 06:05 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13542) | Send Message
     
    You are correct, LT. Takes lots of puffing to keep that lead balloon up in the air.
    14 May, 06:23 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1551) | Send Message
     
    LabTech: WRT to TSLA... it's currently sandwiched between the 50 day and the 200 day. If it fails to go up and touch the 50 day I will be looking to close some of my Long Calls (which are protecting (hedging) my Short Equity Position) all while Elon's Dog and Pony show begins to unravel over the next 12 to 24 months. That is my current thesis, anyway. I know others see it very differently.

     

    I do know that if/when the institutions exit, we will only probably know in hindsight (kinda like the Pipe'rs). The only other alternate way of knowing the big fish are gone would be when it becomes apparant that they no longer support the "Tesla Blue Sky Propaganda Machine" and actually start talking about GAAP numbers in the *first* paragraph (not opaquely buried down deep in the report... if at all).

     

    Were not there yet, but I'm watching closely.
    14 May, 06:39 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (787) | Send Message
     
    Daily short sales are up a little above 30%!
    14 May, 05:50 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1551) | Send Message
     
    Triple B, 'ole buddy, are you looking to add to that 99 share position now? ;-)
    14 May, 07:20 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13542) | Send Message
     
    Almost missed this , OR, but:

     

    Yep. Sitting at 100k, .1575 avg cost.

     

    Cocked and loaded for the next trade, but not looking to unload for less than .20 unless the tides of war force my hand.

     

    If the CC goes as it should, and we hear some positive hints from NSC, I might hold to the recent .23 high.
    14 May, 08:20 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (1551) | Send Message
     
    Triple B: .1575 avg? Nice job. We'll see what the CC brings.
    15 May, 03:27 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (9574) | Send Message
     
    More on Power Japan Plus. Video included.

     

    Prius battery guru says future EVs will be powered by nothing but cotton

     

    http://engt.co/1osaXYW
    14 May, 07:36 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    I've visited their website – http://bit.ly/1oQtsDP – and find myself more than a bit puzzled because I don't see anything that would result in faradic electrochemical storage, as opposed to capacitive storage. Even though there are lithium ions and anions in the electrolyte, the explanation doesn't make sense to me yet.

     

    For now I've put the Ryden dual carbon battery on my mental holy grail shelf. We should know within a decade or so whether the technology will thrive or not.
    14 May, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    Volkswagen Launches the People's Electric Car
    http://bit.ly/1oseuX7

     

    Price expected to be between $30-35K.
    14 May, 08:04 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    It looks like Tesla is going to have a lot of competition by the time Elon is ready to launch The Gelding in 2017, give or take a couple years.
    14 May, 08:12 PM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (1035) | Send Message
     
    OT --- I thought this was some pretty amazing video:

     

    Cat Saves Little Boy From Being Attacked by Neighbor's Dog

     

    http://abcn.ws/1oQL5U2

     

    The ABC News version doesn't show how severe the injuries were. This YouTube version does (at the .44 second mark).

     

    http://bit.ly/1oskWO1
    14 May, 09:17 PM Reply Like
  • jcrjg
    , contributor
    Comments (174) | Send Message
     
    So now that we know TG was able to deliver, is the stock a better buy at $0.18 then it was yesterday at $0.14 when we did not know about the sale? I bought some at $0.16 and have doubled down in the last few weeks. What I am trying to decide is whether this news warrants another double dow.
    14 May, 09:37 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4203) | Send Message
     
    "So now that we know TG was able to deliver, is the stock a better buy at $0.18 then it was yesterday at $0.14 when we did not know about the sale? "

     

    We know Axion issued a PR today announcing receipt of a purchase order.

     

    "Axion Power Announces Order For Four PowerCube™ Energy Storage Systems
    Continue to Demonstrate Effectiveness, Reliability for Energy Storage; Value for Frequency Regulation Market

     

    NEW CASTLE, Pa., May 14, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- Axion Power International, Inc., (OTC QB: AXPW), the developer of advanced lead-carbon PbC® batteries and energy storage systems, announced today that it has received a follow-on purchase order for four more PowerCube™ energy storage systems from its strategic partner, a NJ-based solar installer for commercial and residential markets. The Cubes will provide storage for energy created by a commercial solar panel system and service the frequency regulation market on the PJM grid."

     

    June 13 of last year we were treated to a similar PR.
    "Axion Power Receives Order To Supply Class 8 Truck Battery Strings For ePower
    Re-order Spurred by Fuel-Saving Confirmation on 1400-mile Endurance Drive

     

    NEW CASTLE, Pa., June 13, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Axion Power International, Inc. (OTC QB: AXPW), the developer of advanced lead­-carbon PbC® batteries and energy storage systems, today announced its receipt of a second order for PbC batteries designed to operate in string formation to increase fuel efficiency and decrease emissions in Class 8 trucks retrofitted by privately held Florence, KY-based ePower Engine Systems. The proprietary batteries and design for the ePower Class 8 application were featured recently in FLEETS AND FUELS (http://bit.ly/14Wo3zi). "

     

    Question is, Where do the similarities end if they end at all regarding actual sales and revenues.
    14 May, 09:53 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Last summer ePower thought it would get enough performance out of the John Deere four cylinder engine to take its tractor to the trucking industry. ePower was wrong in that belief.

     

    Detailed fuel economy testing done after the run to Iowa showed that the fuel economy suffered too much at heavier weights. That necessitated an upgrade to the Cummins six cylinder engine we've been integrating into the ePower drivetrain over the last nine months.

     

    We are currently confident that the Cummins will give us the performance we want, but until the completed tractor is on the road hauling the required payloads and delivering our target fuel economies