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  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1476) | Send Message
     
    a-hah
    12 Jun, 07:18 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (2167) | Send Message
     
    Segundo....
    12 Jun, 07:19 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (785) | Send Message
     
    Buenos días-Tercero.

     

    Today: Futbol and more futbol!!!
    12 Jun, 07:23 AM Reply Like
  • rgholbrook
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    Carlos - Who are you rooting for?
    12 Jun, 01:05 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (785) | Send Message
     
    rgholb:

     

    Buenos días:

     

    I am with Brazil & Colombia and AXPW.

     

    Saludos-Carlos
    13 Jun, 06:23 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    06/11/2014: EOD stuff partially copied from blog (up now).
    # Trds: 24, MinTrSz: 50, MaxTrSz: 21700, Vol: 166574, AvTrSz: 6941
    Min. Pr: 0.1510, Max Pr: 0.1599, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.1545
    # Buys, Shares: 7 23478, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.1582
    # Sells, Shares: 17 143096, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.1538
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:6.09 (14.09% "buys"), DlyShts 29073 (17.45%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 20.32%

     

    Strangeness in the trading continues as we again have long gaps in trading and relatively little aggressiveness in offer movement until late in the day. The bids ...

     

    Maybe this isn't the strangeness, maybe it was the PIPErs trading that was strangeness and this might be the “new normal” until a catalyst appears. Let's hope not.

     

    My overall take is still no optimism that we'll hold a higher, or even level, price near-term. Same old reasons: low volume, falling VWAP, falling average trade size, negative traditional TA oscillators, the (artificial?) high again stopped dead almost right at my descending resistance (continuing the lower highs pattern), ...

     

    The low of the day, $0.1510, had good volume, 41.7K shares including one of 21.7K, and was near to other trading prices.

     

    The high for the day was a single 10K trade at $0.1599 just before noon and was not within reach of other trading prices. The next lower price was 1.19% lower at $0.1580. Further, at the time of the trade the immediately prior trades went at $0.1511, $0.1510 and $0.1520. Subsequent trades didn't occur until 13:09 and went for $0.1575.

     

    I didn't see the 160K offer that we've been watching.

     

    Today's low, high, VWAP, trade volume, and daily short sales moved 0.67%, -3.03%, -0.26%, -3.16% and -37.75% respectively. Price spread today was 5.89% vs. 9.93%, 7.71%, 8.26%, 8.01%, 12.52%, 4.81%, 12.62%, 15.03% and 5.26% on prior days.

     

    If we remove the high of $0.1599 and use $0.1580, our movements ...

     

    The larger trades (>= 15K) occurred on 3 of the 24 trades, 12.50%. These 53,150 shares were 31.91% of day's volume, and traded at a VWAP of $0.1523. All were sells. Trade sizes were 15.5K ($0.1515), 15.95K ($0.1550) and 21.7K ($0.1510).

     

    The other 21 trades, 87.50% of the day's trades, traded 113,424 shares, 68.09% of the days volume. The VWAP was $0.1555. 7 trades, 33.33%, were buys ...

     

    The concerns expressed over the last three days seem to have been prescient. Along with the continued drop in VWAP today, the high continues to honor my descending resistance, currently around $0.161 or so, and the lows continue to challenge the support at $0.15 and volume remains tanked. Moreover ...

     

    VWAP continues to weaken its grip on the $0.16 range. From 5/28 forward ...

     

    Today the oscillators I watch continued to weaken. Full stochastic went further, again, into oversold. A hopeful sign is that price is very near the rising lower Bollinger, currently reading $0.1496. The upper limit is falling ...

     

    With today's buy percentage to 14.1% (8.61% if we remove that single 10K $0.1599 trade) from yesterday's 25.6% and 82.2% before that, the daily short sales continued as expected, dropping even further from yesterday's 27.15% to 17.45%. As I had mentioned, normally this leads to weakening price if ...

     

    The usual detail in the blog here.
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    12 Jun, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (752) | Send Message
     
    Could the new CFO have backed out? Could there be big negotiations in process that need to resolved before he starts? Is he trying to beat the "Free Stock Bonanza" of the previous CFO?

     

    Any "On The Road" pictures of the ePower truck?
    12 Jun, 08:16 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    There was no free stock bonanza for the former CFO. He would have gotten a very healthy block of options if he had served out the term of his employment contract. With an abrupt resignation most of the options didn't vest and the options that did vest were most likely subject to normal forfeiture conditions.

     

    Every time you ask an ePower question I give you the same answer. When I have news I can share I will do so. Until I have news to share asking does no good. I merely puts me on the spot and I don't appreciate it.

     

    The last few days have been a great education in the trials and tribulations of fuel economy testing. We do our test runs in the Cincinnati metropolitan area because it's close to the shop and that makes it easy to respond to problems if they arise. It also makes it tough to get a couple hours of steady state driving because traffic conditions seem particularly sensitive to weather conditions. Every time a storm passes traffic tends to slow and accidents tend to increase. There's nothing like a traffic jam to screw up a fuel economy test.
    12 Jun, 09:01 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1826) | Send Message
     
    greentongue, I know you mean well and you're just psyched to hear more about ePower or anything Axion related. Me too.

     

    But you're kinda like that kid in the back seat of the car that keeps asking 'are we there yet?'. :)

     

    No offense intended, just sayin'.

     

    D
    12 Jun, 09:21 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    A possible solution?

     

    http://bit.ly/1xNYTUZ
    12 Jun, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    >JP -

     

    I know ePower is tiny, and "taxed," but thoughts of bad weather, and then extreme weather made me wonder whether your insurance agent has been proactive in helping you guys think about disaster planning? Stuff happens :-)

     

    I could imagine that most agents are "just average," but some are outstanding if you can find them. At the far, slightly related extreme, GE Capital has an interesting ad out lately about bringing their experts from all across the company in to "be more than just a bank." Is disaster planning one of your many job responsibilities?

     

    I recall you mentioned insuring the tractor a bit, but any interesting (short) stories to tell about the bigger topic ... past or present in your career?
    12 Jun, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1468) | Send Message
     
    How about doing mpg testing at night when nobody is on the road?
    12 Jun, 12:35 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (752) | Send Message
     
    The "Any "On The Road" pictures of the ePower truck?" was not directed at you Mr. Peterson.
    We have people on this board that can get pictures of the NS-999 and it is under wraps so, I was wondering if any were snapping pictures of the truck "in the wild".

     

    I realize that you will provide details as best suits you. You are not the only possible source of info. (Just the best one.)
    Sometimes a collaborator provides reassurance.
    12 Jun, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    That's a pleasant theory but so far there have been no third party reports or pictures and I'm the only source of information. Please quit putting me in a position where I feel compelled to respond when I have nothing to say.
    12 Jun, 01:48 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (752) | Send Message
     
    Well, those 3rd party people need to get it in gear.
    Get a little Truck Stop Buzz going.
    "You seen that new electric hybrid yet? Look'n green!"
    "Yeah, I was pull'n in for fuel and it just kept going."
    12 Jun, 05:53 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (752) | Send Message
     
    Oh and yes, I deal in pleasant theories every day. I still own Axion stock.
    12 Jun, 06:49 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    Fishing? First two trades at the ask, $0.16, for 625 shares each.

     

    CDEL 160K offer at $0.17 is back.

     

    HardToLove
    12 Jun, 09:40 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    HTL, 8-I

     

    http://bit.ly/1xP7k2g
    12 Jun, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: LoL! For the moment it sure looks like it.

     

    HardToLove
    12 Jun, 01:44 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >H.TLove ... Hope someone thinks the company worthy of splurging on those high dollar shares.
    12 Jun, 09:47 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    DRich: I was wondering if the MM had to hit his LOC to cover the trades. :-))

     

    HardToLove
    12 Jun, 10:04 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, Ya know that current system we're sellin ya, well it's garbage.

     

    But Axionistas already knew that.

     

    Just Charge It: Ford’s New Alternator-Based Regen System Aims to Improve MPG

     

    "Ted Miller, Ford’s senior battery engineer, told us the current stop-start system that’s optional in the Fusion doesn’t cut overall fuel consumption because the standard 12-volt lead-acid battery doesn’t have the capacity to keep accessories such as air conditioning running for very long."

     

    http://bit.ly/1iqNf8C
    12 Jun, 10:46 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    "... But while battery researchers are feverishly trying to develop chemistries that better respond to extreme temperatures and several aftermarket companies sell lithium-ion portable jump starters, the old lead-acid starter battery is holding its ground.

     

    “It’s dirt cheap, and works reasonably well in cold temperatures. Lithium-ion fails on both of those,” said Andy Drews, a Ford research scientist."

     

    Sure would be nice if the automakers came to grips with reality and implemented a dual battery (flooded and PbC) solution that gave them all weather performance and reasonable cost. Maybe I'll get a chance to bend Ted Miller's ear again at The Battery Show in September.
    12 Jun, 11:07 AM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    ii - If capacity (i.e. energy density) were to be the primary problem our PbC solution would be SOL. The energy density of PbC vs. VRLA is about 50% and you don't want to think about the Li Ion ratio. The PbC's advantage vs. VRLA is in its hiigh rate of recharge and its PSOC cycle life. The PbC's advantage over a Li batter in this dual-battery system is thought to be the initial and lifetime cost, greenness (i.e. recyclability of PbC's battery materials post mortem), and fire safety but little else.

     

    I hope that Ted Miller has it all wrong (and I think that he does have it wrong) regarding the overriding importance of energy density, because if he were to be right the PbC battery will never find a home in this application.
    12 Jun, 11:47 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    I used to spend a lot of time riding my bicycle and I always chuckled at the guys who'd spend hundreds of dollars on a lighter aluminum frame while carrying 15% to 20% body fat. What they really needed was a lighter rider instead of a lighter bike.

     

    The PbC will lose the weight and volume contests every time. But winning the initial and lifetime cost, greenness and fire safety contests should count for something.

     

    Sometimes I think engineers got so caught up in the technical intricacies that they tend to overlook the vulgar realities of day to day living.
    12 Jun, 12:07 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1416) | Send Message
     
    It's not the max energy density that's the problem, but the partial state of charge that results from the accessory loads.

     

    A normal LAB would deteriorate rapidly, whereas the PbC would be just fine.

     

    Thus a two battery system, where the PbC handles hotel loads and regen during start/stop events, and the LAB starts the system.
    12 Jun, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1476) | Send Message
     
    Concerning advantages of the PbC over Li-ion: Can we not also add (5) simpler battery management system and (6) more stable performance across the temperature spectrum? Or is that too conflationary? Or how about (7) easier/cheaper to maintain? (8) longer life? (9) greater ability to withstand deep-to-dead discharging and (10) greater ability to withstand overcharging? Can we properly put any of these on the list?

     

    OK, so, lithium (1) is lighter, (2) has higher energy density at some temperatures, (3)..... hmmm, having trouble here, oh, yeah, how about much higher possibility of more spectacular endings?
    12 Jun, 04:30 PM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (218) | Send Message
     
    Edmund -->> two more items that can be added to the list is 1) that for most cost feasible varieties of Li-Ion, the number of total cycles is going to be between 500 to 1,000 cycles; and 2) Li-Ion batteries are going to need a heater, because they do not like to be charged at or below freezing temperatures.
    12 Jun, 04:44 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    Don't know if this development has been posted yet:

     

    "Ford lowers fuel economy rating for six vehicles"

     

    "We also are taking steps to improve our processes and prevent issues like this from happening again."

     

    Right. Prove it---not just for a narrow definition of "like this."

     

    "In the latest case, Ford said it identified an error through internal testing and notified the U.S. environmental regulator. No adjustments on other vehicles are planned after review of the entire lineup, the company said."

     

    http://yhoo.it/1irQkFr

     

    Man, same old same old.
    12 Jun, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Hyundai got sued for a similar issue and had to provide gas cards to buyers to pay for the shortfall IIRC.
    12 Jun, 05:30 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    Well, Europe's way ahead of the US regarding start-stop implementations. Any word from the 'front' regarding the inevitable make-wholes? I would hope bad developments there might induce OEMs to change their behavior here earlier than if they just wait for the US to play out in isolation. Maybe it's just as simple as, "if it ain't on the window sticker mileage, we're not liable." Is the s/s mileage boost on the stick over there or here? IOW, are they making claims they can't keep, or are their claims unofficial?

     

    Even if it's unofficial, it's a scandal in the making. Like watching a crash in super slo mo.
    12 Jun, 05:36 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Based on the respective drive cycles SS adds to the mileage rating in Europe but not the US. The drive cycles are the regulated routines, city and highway, that are used to determine the window sticker or government mileage ratings.
    12 Jun, 05:54 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    The tests are also performed using new cars with new batteries, so almost anything will pass. The real impetus for change won't come until recurring emissions inspection protocols are changed to assess stop-start function.
    12 Jun, 07:22 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    If we accept all of these PbC battery advantages as fact, you are left with the glaring question; "Why has Axion failed to penetrate this mild hybrid automotive market?" And "Why has Axion failed to penetrate any of the three or four other identified markets to which the PbC battery is well suited?"

     

    I am a believer that this battery does have sufficient performance and cost benefits in certain application to qualify as the battery of choice and the PbC battery has been available in sufficient quantity for demonstration projects since 2008 and the patents for the last piece of the automated production (carbon sheeting) were filed in 2012.

     

    Axion's failure to succeed in the market place is not now and has never been related to the capabilities of the PbC battery itself or the factory's ability to make it.

     

    So what have been the real causes of Axion's failure to succeed? (And no John, this has not been the "normal" time frame and sequence of events for a start up corporations.) You will never fix problems that you refuse to believe exist - so what have been and continue to be the real problems, and then - how do you fix them.
    13 Jun, 07:37 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (966) | Send Message
     
    @PbC Believer - so what is epower doing exactly? what demo projects have been available for auto? what is norfolk doing? why would anyone buy these batteries for storage?
    13 Jun, 07:43 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    Start-up corporations that manufacture complete products they can sell to end-users have an easy path that's denied to start-up corporations introducing a new technology that's only useful as a component in a product made by somebody else.

     

    When I spoke with Eckhard Karden of Ford at the ELBC in Paris he readily admitted that the PbC would be a better battery for their stop-start systems. He also explained that it was cheaper for Ford to pay the odd warranty claim than to upgrade the batteries in all their cars.

     

    When I first wrote about the Norfolk Southern project in 2011, Tom Granville was apparently called on the carpet by NS because they thought he was speaking out of school. I was able to quell the firestorm by promptly sending Tom the 20 MB research archive that I used as the basis for my article, but the entire incident highlighted NS' sensitivity over their 2009 failure and their steely-eyed determination that there wouldn't be a second failure. The PbC is a critical component for NS, but it is only one component and until they're satisfied that their entire system will meet their needs, we wait and watch.

     

    I'm going through the same thing right now with ePower. We have built a prototype drivetrain that promises fuel economy improvements of 40% to 60% when compared with conventional drivetrains for Class 8 trucking. We are very pleased with the results and happy to acknowledge that we wouldn't have a shot at a commercial product without the PbC. We are still working our way through system level testing and we will not offer a product for sale to the trucking industry until we are confident that our system will satisfy our target market's requirements. It has nothing to do with the PbC and everything to do with our system and our business objectives.

     

    When I got involved with Axion, nobody thought the PbC would be a magical drop-in replacement for conventional batteries. We all knew that manufacturers would have to develop new products and new control systems to capitalize on the PbC's strengths and accommodate its weaknesses. As near as I can tell the only thing that's changed is that Axion did a better job with the battery than we had any right to expect.
    13 Jun, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    Successful companies have excellent engineers and excellent marketeers. Axion has had and continues to have excellent engineers.
    13 Jun, 08:32 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    I agree wholeheartedly and from my perspective the engineers are Axion's best salesmen because they're the guys who are standing by and willing to get their hands dirty helping customers like NS and ePower complete the system development process and launch new solutions that can do the required work. Jack Shindle is a hell of a salesman because he knows how to make the PbC sing.

     

    Even a super salesman couldn't push that rope.
    13 Jun, 08:36 AM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    John - No start up company that is attempting to introduce a new and unproven technology into a conservative market place ever has an easy path. It is always a difficult challenge that demands (among many other necessities) the highest level of marketeering skills with the authority to make their part of the equation happen and happen in a timely fashion.

     

    To succeed as a start up company there must exist a functional balance between engineering and marketeering, and a high level of excellence in both. In the case of Axion I have seen over the course of this past decade that there has always been an excellence in engineering BUT ...
    13 Jun, 09:17 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (823) | Send Message
     
    John-

     

    Would you be able to estimate how many engineers AXPW has. I'd guess that at AXPW size they don't separate between R&D and operations. Less than 5, between 5-10, or greater than 10.

     

    Once Enders Dickinson left I wonder how deep their technical bench was and have never got a satisfactory answer.
    13 Jun, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1416) | Send Message
     
    When did Enders leave? Do you mean Ed Buiel?
    13 Jun, 09:38 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Ranma, this note was in the header for awhile. I copied it from concentrator 272.

     

    (note: Enders Dickenson left the company a few months ago for family reasons).
    13 Jun, 10:08 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    mrholty> The Form 10-K discloses "As of December 31, 2013 we employed a staff of 83, including a 10 member scientific and engineering team, and 50 people who are involved principally in manufacturing."

     

    Beyond that I don't know enough to add any color.
    13 Jun, 10:29 AM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    A long list of engineers and scientists have departed the scene at Axion over the course of this past decade but a critical core of very talented and dedicated engineers remain in Axion's employ.

     

    A lack of excellence in engineering is not now and never has been the cause of Axion's failure to generate PbC revenues in a timely manner - the product has been there on time but the marketeering has not and the "why of it" is in need of our closer scrutiny.
    Why has the marketeering of PbC batteries never kept pace with the engineering?
    What has management and the BoD done to change that engineering-marketeering dynamic for the better?
    The answers to these two questions are extremely complicated and we will never get complete answers to them, nor should we. But they are the questions that we as shareholders should be continually asking of both management and the BoD to make it crystal clear to them that we are paying close attention to their performance or lack thereof and that they must do better than they have done for us to date with respect to marketing.
    13 Jun, 10:56 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    PbC Believer> You may be right, but speaking as a man who had no influence on management policies and can only observe from a distance, I have no reason to believe that I could or would have done things differently or better if I had enjoyed a position of responsibility and authority. I feel perfectly comfortable criticizing Axion's PR and shareholder communications functions because I know I could have done a better job if the board had let me. Beyond that, meh.
    13 Jun, 11:02 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1476) | Send Message
     
    I have to say that I misjudged the timeline. Marketing may be weak, but the fact is the PbC is NOT a drop-in better battery; it is a supercabattery. It might be evolutionary, but I misjudged the extent to which it is also revolutionary. That led to my misjudging market readiness for such a product. I think killing the marketers is like killing the messenger. As a result, I have had to exercise more patience than I typically would ask of myself. We may be waiting for TG to find the markets, but we are also having to wait for developers to make products which take advantage of the PbC supercabattery.

     

    IIRC, the laser also languished for a time as a solution without a problem.
    13 Jun, 12:16 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >Edmund Metcalfe ... Yes, the laser did languish for a while. The difference is that the laser was out there being tinkered with by thousands that had no clue what one might do. I remember reading in my Popular Mechanics how to build a crude CO2 laser at home along with speculation about a ruby laser's possible uses. I don't remember is saying a CO2 laser could melt steel (it can). Good thing my parents nixed the idea on the advice of my older brother (the scientist) or I might have burnt the neighborhood down or punched holes in everything I could.
    13 Jun, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    Ed - Let's hope we don't have the same timeline as the AGM had ...
    13 Jun, 12:39 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (823) | Send Message
     
    John- Thanks. When ePower calls AXPW do they only deal with Jack Shindle or they deal with 1 or 2 guys who know ePower specific?

     

    Curious me wants to know how much "engineering" is really sales/technical support vs working on PbC v3.0.

     

    Did I see a notice for the AGM or was that a dream? I need to go this year.
    13 Jun, 01:11 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    "Did I see a notice for the AGM or was that a dream? I need to go this year."

     

    Mr H. - I hope you go. For me, I am not sure that it is worth the time again this year. But maybe they will have the PbC line spit out an electrode.
    13 Jun, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2353) | Send Message
     
    Yup we didn't about it much on this board but it seems like some of the "talented" players have decided to chase championship aspirations else where.
    13 Jun, 04:19 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1476) | Send Message
     
    DRich - about to leave for the woods - shouldn't be on-line but I don't have to do anything - I'm the Dad-Man this weekend - loving it, btw.

     

    Anyway, seriously, you should have built that laser!!!!! And Axion should somehow create a tinkerer's abeyance of their material security policies - but the Chinese are killing us and I totally understand their current position. Something like "You can get one, no more."

     

    If I had one, I'd use a GC-MS to try to figure out: "What the hell is 'graphite-impregnated paraffin and rosin' "?
    13 Jun, 06:26 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    John,
    You left Axion's BoD in 2008 which is about the time that the real marketeering should have gone into full swing, so no you were never involved in that which did or did not transpire behind closed doors. Your views in this matter are those of an watchful outsider.
    14 Jun, 07:23 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    I stepped down from Axion's board in January 2007 to make room for Walker Wainright, but I continued to serve as counsel until we negotiated and closed the Quercus financing in early 2008.

     

    I started blogging in July of 2008 and to protect myself and Axion I went out of my way to avoid anything that could be construed as inside information.

     

    You are correct in suggesting that I'm nothing more than a watchful outsider with an encyclopedic knowledge of Axion's history, technology and business strategy.

     

    I don't know it all, but based on everything I do know I have no reason to believe that I could or would have done things differently or more effectively.
    14 Jun, 08:20 AM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    John,
    Given that your career path has not been in marketing and sales I would have to agree that in all probability you could not have done a better job of marketing the PbC battery. What reason would there be to think that you might be considered qualified to be given that job?

     

    During my fourty years in business I've had the pleasure of knowing several great marketeers and I can say with certainty that great marketeers also have great personalities and a special talent for establishing business relationships and that they are a breed unto themselves. Great engineering minds usually don't make great marketing guys, great finance minds can almost never do that job, great legal minds rarely if ever fit that mold, and most CEO's can't do the marketing job either.

     

    I am certain that Axion's failed efforts in the marketing of the PbC battery were not for lack of trying or good intentions. I am of the belief that it was more a matter of not having a great marketing guy with the right background in a position of authority at Axion during the critical period beginning around 2008 when that skill set was desperately needed to properly position PbC products, land the right demonstration projects, smooth business relationships with prospective strategic partners, and generate PbC battery sales. This was a key position and it was empty.

     

    There is no doubt at all in my mind that the marketing of this PbC battery could have been done far better than it was and my guess is that in strict privacy TG would be the first to admit that.

     

    At this point in time my greatest hope is that this round of financing will somehow bring with it a vast improvement in Axion's ability to successfully market PbC batteries and systems - we will soon know.
    14 Jun, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • Retired Aviator
    , contributor
    Comments (1468) | Send Message
     
    PbC B> I mostly agree and I checked like. Since you are so strong on the PbC as to choose a user name based on it, won't you share your background with us? Why so stoked on the PbC? Are you an engineer impressed with its data? Do you have any hands on experience with PbCs?
    14 Jun, 07:10 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    At least while I was there, the board was never willing to put in an adequate budget for rock star marketing. I'm not convinced that a multimillion dollar marketing budget would have done any good, but I'm also not convinced that it would have been futile.
    14 Jun, 08:56 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    John,
    Start up companies can never afford not to have strong marketing talent on board as they are approaching the time when they will have something to market. Certainly, if Axion could budget for TG as CEO and Ed Buiel, PhD as CTO, they could have budgeted for a competent VP of M&S, but that's history that can't be changed.
    Fortunately, both the present and the future are subject to change and change for the better it must.
    14 Jun, 09:41 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    PbC Believer> I second RA's question. Your comments would be better appreciated by the board if you gave us some more details about your background. An empty bio on social media is akin to crossing your arms and sulking against a wall at a dance party.
    14 Jun, 11:29 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    Axion says they have a live data display of the PowerCube in action. I think it would be a great PR stunt if Axion would put a link for a live stream of the display on their website.

     

    I also look forward to some results from the Tesla application. Sounds like the customer is a friend and would have no objections to publishing some data from the project.
    12 Jun, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    Interesting:

     

    http://bit.ly/1xOFG5u

     

    The Flexible Ramping Product will replace the existing flexible market constraint and provide the CAISO with a means to procure sufficient ramping capacity through economic bids. The Straw Proposal issued last week describes the CAISO’s market design proposal for a flexible upward and downward ramping product.
    12 Jun, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    Gigaboom -

     

    Hopefully they go with a scattergun approach rather than another misguided love affair with li-on.

     

    http://bloom.bg/1xOGvey
    12 Jun, 11:56 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    'Pay-As-You-Go' Solar Companies Win National Geographic Terra Watt Prize

     

    http://huff.to/1xP3iqB
    12 Jun, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (752) | Send Message
     
    This may be a source of the delay in integrating the PbC.
    Has the auto industry hit peak hybrid?
    http://aol.it/1xPeGD8
    12 Jun, 01:46 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3332) | Send Message
     
    Peak hybrid? Naught but a flesh wound. I say we ain't standin' still fer nuthin!

     

    http://bit.ly/1xPj8By
    12 Jun, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (752) | Send Message
     
    I've always wondered if you could put one of those generators in the trunk? No more range anxiety.
    13 Jun, 08:06 AM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (730) | Send Message
     
    I was thinking a trailer that you could pick up and drop off at U-Haul for those times you needed to go out of town on long trips...rent vs buy. I just imagine a truck could cause exhaust problems.
    13 Jun, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    While we watch the paint dry.

     

    Looks like Hitachi Rail also did a hybrid loco for JR-East. It's a series hybrid system like ePower.

     

    http://bit.ly/1xPgbBa
    12 Jun, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • dastar
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    Lithium ion diesel system. If I remember correctly, Japan also has an all electric lithium ion switcher.
    12 Jun, 02:38 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Dastar, I am only aware of the two hybrid locomotives from Japan. I am not aware of any pure battery locos.

     

    Here is the Toshiba offering working for the same rail co.

     

    http://bit.ly/1xPvzgJ
    12 Jun, 02:49 PM Reply Like
  • dastar
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    ii- it's possible I am not remembering correctly or the article I read was not accurate.
    12 Jun, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Dastar, No problema.

     

    I don't follow the industry that closely but I do at times search around to see what other countries/manufacturers are doing. Lot's more activity in light rail in the area of electrification for obvious reasons. Also mining again for obvious reasons. I was hoping Axion would get in with Brookville in the mining area somehow. Nothing I've seen however.
    12 Jun, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • ARGE
    , contributor
    Comments (730) | Send Message
     
    Dang, we can't seem to break through $.16
    12 Jun, 02:43 PM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (696) | Send Message
     
    For those of us still nibbling that's just fine.
    12 Jun, 02:48 PM Reply Like
  • JamesBBecker
    , contributor
    Comments (176) | Send Message
     
    Can't fall much either. I tried to by 10K shares $0.155 starting around noon, and only got a partial fill. This is what you might call "low volume".
    12 Jun, 06:15 PM Reply Like
  • tahoe1780
    , contributor
    Comments (94) | Send Message
     
    Fuel Cell: http://bit.ly/1xPBdiX
    12 Jun, 03:11 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Maybe Axion can get another.

     

    $12.5 Million Available For PA Energy Development Authority Grants, Loans

     

    http://bit.ly/1irCR0l
    12 Jun, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    The announcement included a link to this one page summary of the PowerCube project.

     

    http://bit.ly/1irJks4
    12 Jun, 04:35 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    Big day: traded equity valued by the market at ... (drum roll please) $7,352.4120!

     

    Buy:sell 1:4.33 (18.76% "buys").

     

    HardToLove
    12 Jun, 04:09 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    Seems auto is getting left out more and more (flyer dated 6/2014) with no public hugs in four or five years, it makes you ask why ... is Axion trying to show they can move on without them or is it the other way around. I honestly don't know.

     

    "The PowerCube ™ technology has other applications in the market, particularly in environmentally friendly transportation including: hybrid electric switcher locomotive, hybrid OTR trucks and grid based energy storage systems."
    12 Jun, 04:43 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    Stephan: I recall TG stating that Axion was going after, "Lower hanging fruit."

     

    My take is that either the auto OEMs are going another route with 48v lithium + 12v LA, and, because Axion is just a flea on a cow's arse, Axion just can't get any traction with the OEMs.

     

    Or...

     

    That TG realizes that in the auto sector the margins are just too tight, and he has decided to put more energies in ePower and the grid.
    12 Jun, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    Except for the gold star that comes from an automotive design win I don't care if Axion ever makes a car battery. The OEMs are simply too demanding and too cheap. It's far better to develop customers who are willing to pay a fair price for fair value.
    12 Jun, 05:14 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    Understood. But the market will take note of the gold star and financing will no longer be an issue.

     

    Then the other applications can be developed without continually bashing legacy holders over the head with yearly secondaries.
    12 Jun, 05:49 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3332) | Send Message
     
    Perhaps all too true John, though I daresay that for most of us, we *were* thinking somewhat differently a couple of years ago when the prospect seemed happier, nearer and a bit more likely. And for me, all crappy margins notwithstanding, I still can't shake the notion that an Axion producing a healthy million or so electrodes a year for autos, at whatever miserable price, would somehow not be sporting a mere 35 million dollar market cap...
    12 Jun, 05:57 PM Reply Like
  • dastar
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    I've recently had an inside, firsthand look at a friend who sells parts to the auto industry and have seen that they won't pay a penny more than they have to, even if that extra penny meant their cars were a higher quality. :\
    12 Jun, 06:21 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Hard to be picky when your plate is pretty much empty.
    12 Jun, 06:37 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2353) | Send Message
     
    JP,

     

    How long have you felt this way? I'd thought way back when Axion and Exide were still buddies that the auto market was considered a huge deal. The stock also seemed to like that alliance if the spike to $2 five years back means anything. Do you expect railroads and utilities to have much fatter margins?
    12 Jun, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    I've always considered automotive a huge gold star, but I've also believed the market could only be served by a partnership between Axion and a much larger battery manufacturer with the facilities and expertise to serve the auto industry.

     

    The plan has always been to prove the PbC technology and then commercialize markets with other manufacturers who want to make a better product.

     

    Exide with Axion Inside would have suited me fine. I feel the same way about Varta, Moll, Banner or Bosch with Axion Inside. I'd hate to see Axion try to scale its operations big enough for Axion through and through.

     

    I expect railroads, stationary and even ePower to give Axion better margins because that class of customer knows the alternatives don't work so they're willing to pay up for a battery that does work.
    12 Jun, 07:27 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4600) | Send Message
     
    re: Auto & BMW...anything can happen but for now BMW has bigger fish to fry.

     

    BMW, Tesla in possible technology partnership
    BMW (OTCPK:BAMXY) says it met with U.S.-based electric car maker Tesla (TSLA) this week to discuss a possible joint operation regarding electric vehicle technology."Both companies are strongly committed to the success of electro-mobility and discussed how to further strengthen the development of electro-mobility on an international level," a BMW spokeman announced.

     

    | 5:30 AM|Comment!
    13 Jun, 06:30 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    BMW would be thrilled to ramp EV production to a point where EV sales represented 1% of its revenue. They're selling sizzle but there is no beef.

     

    http://bit.ly/SFCQPt

     

    Their meat and potatoes business is making and selling cars for the 99% while the PR department panders to politicians and ideologues who speak for the 1%.
    13 Jun, 07:26 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    The link.

     

    BMW and Tesla executives meet to discuss electric cars

     

    http://fxn.ws/SFPbDa
    13 Jun, 08:59 AM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (843) | Send Message
     
    Interesting CBS News 3-minute video

     

    http://cbsn.ws/1lteAvi

     

    "Tesla CEO Elon Musk turned the tables on patent wars by opening Tesla's patents to the public. Musk says that by sharing Tesla's technology, the world would benefit from "a common, rapidly-evolving technology platform."
    13 Jun, 01:06 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    This "All our patents are belong to you" idea of E.Musk's could be another holdup for anything happening in the automotive sector. I can imagine a huge & lengthy test phase coming as OEM's sift through Tesla's patents to see what might work for them.

     

    http://cnnmon.ie/SFQB0H
    13 Jun, 09:09 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (871) | Send Message
     
    On the local news this morning it was reported that Tesla had narrowed down the site selection for its new battery factory to either San Antonio or Reno. They estimated it would bring 6,000 jobs. I hope Elon is a Spurs fan. Go Spurs Go!
    13 Jun, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    Look at that, another week goes by, and wait for it .... crickets.
    13 Jun, 09:24 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/SG1KOY
    13 Jun, 10:24 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    8-I

     

    Energy storage: It’s been a long time coming

     

    "This writer was completely awed by Samsung, whose exhibition stand was so customer focused, a five year old would have understood the message — lead is dead (sorry guys), lithium-ion is so much better and we can offer you a beautiful slimline storage system you can hang on your wall. And you can control with an App no doubt, from your Galaxy phone?"

     

    http://bit.ly/1lsVwgG
    13 Jun, 10:29 AM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13442) | Send Message
     
    Paint drying makes very little noise...

     

    Say, maybe we should paint the crickets?
    13 Jun, 10:31 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    ii - lol, from your link:

     

    "It’s been a long time coming: this ‘energy storage’ malarkey."
    13 Jun, 10:35 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    If iidelco keeps finding & reporting things like that ESP article, we may need to eat those crickets.

     

    Recommend not using oil based or lead pigment paint
    13 Jun, 10:47 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Often very biased press DRich. Much of it not very well informed. But it is what it is.
    13 Jun, 10:54 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    With 10 trades today, not much worth saying.

     

    06/12/2014: EOD stuff partially copied from blog (up now).
    # Trds: 10, MinTrSz: 625, MaxTrSz: 10000, Vol: 47330, AvTrSz: 4733
    Min. Pr: 0.1515, Max Pr: 0.1600, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.1553
    # Buys, Shares: 4 8880, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.1599
    # Sells, Shares: 6 38450, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.1543
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:4.33 (18.76% "buys"), DlyShts 1250 (02.64%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 3.25%

     

    Most of the usual numbers are in the blog here.
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    13 Jun, 11:02 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Do Perovskites Hold the Keys to Ubiquitous Solar Energy?

     

    http://bit.ly/1lt4M4s
    13 Jun, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Massachusetts first state to require utilities to modernize the grid

     

    http://bit.ly/1lt6LG2
    13 Jun, 12:07 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Hybrid storage inverters to seal the deal for solar

     

    http://bit.ly/1ltlyAm
    13 Jun, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1476) | Send Message
     
    Good starter article! I'm interested, too, as I am inching closer to the Axion inverter patent. Unfortunately, the final statement of this positive article took the smile off my face:
    "Grid operators and fossil friendly governments may try and stymie solar, but with the new wave of battery hybrids hitting the market at ever lower prices, the horse has already bolted!"

     

    I can't stand anti-corporate BS. I'm proud of many American industries and companies. VERY PROUD! We Americans going about our businesses have made life BETTER for many global citizens, if perhaps not the planet every time. At least we aren't burning wood anymore - or whale oil! Thanks to oil and coal.

     

    NObody's perfect. Most certainly not governments - whether they are grid-friendly, fossil-friendly, or self-proclaimed "green" - there's only one thing that's green that any government ever cares about. Governments aren't friendly. They are tax collectors. Through the history of man, they are typically thugs clinging to their guns and our paychecks.

     

    Our grid operators are in the business of providing energy and power - if some solar, wind or whatever wacky idea is worth a second look, it'll get investigated on its merits and if found worthy, it will be properly exploited and we'll all partake - all in good, if not perfect, time.

     

    But nowadays, when some particular greenie weenie flavor of the month can't *compete*, the insulted parties increasingly seek to ignore that fact ("The people MUST PAY for this idea or they WILL DIE! National security is at stake, the skies are falling and the oceans are rising!!!") and go about trying to get the media and power-mongering politicians to whine about the "evil" grid operators trying to "stymie" them. Then they'll dole and dine the dummies to vote just so, until they have the power to FORCE US to taste their weenie. Yeah, NO THANKS. >:P

     

    end fairly fair rant, at least IMO
    :)
    TGIF.
    Going camping with the boys all weekend.
    BE well all.
    13 Jun, 03:21 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1476) | Send Message
     
    re' John's statement: "I'd hate to see Axion try to scale its operations big enough for Axion through and through."

     

    I’m taking this statement to mean that John does not want to see Axion manufacturing "batteries". Statements to that effect have been made in the past, not just by John I'm thinking, including references to Axion only manufacturing the "higher margin activated carbon electrodes", as I recall.

     

    I'm not particularly of this persuasion and would rather put the “Axion Inside” sticker on the outside of the locomotive rather than just the outside of an Exide case.

     

    I have been slowly making my way through the Axion patents. The latest one being "Electrode with reduced resistance grid and hybrid energy storage device having same", US 8202653 B2, priority Oct 2006, pub Jun 2012 (http://bit.ly/1ltlwsn).
    The patent describes a novel collector for a *positive* PbO2 lead paste electrode. Another Axion patent focuses on its manufacturing (Method of making a current collector [for a positive electrode, ed.], US 8347468 B2, priority Dec 2008, pub Jan 2013).

     

    In the description of the former, this statement is found:
    "The positive electrode of a hybrid energy storage device effectively defines the active life of the device. Just as with lead-acid batteries, the lead-based positive electrode typically fails before the negative electrode. Such failures are generally the result of the loss of active lead dioxide paste shedding from the current collector grid as a consequence of spalling and dimensional change deterioration that the active material undergoes during charging and discharging cycles."

     

    So apparently Axion knows that the activated carbon electrode does not extend the life of the PbO2 positive electrode of a lead-acid battery.

     

    There is nothing super-exciting here and perhaps you were already aware of the efforts surrounding the positive electrodes, but I found it encouraging that Axion, focused on the activated carbon negative electrode, also has a patent for a novel positive electrode current collector (for those who don't know, this is the name given to the part of the positive electrode to which the PbO2 paste is "stuck") for which they make the following claim: "It is an advantage of the present invention that there is reduced likelihood of failure of a positive electrode and a hybrid energy storage device containing such a positive electrode." Essentially this means they are claiming a longer life than any properly-used LAB out there. And in the patent covering its manufacturing, these claims: "It is an advantage of the present invention that the making of a current collector minimizes or eliminates waste" and "It is another advantage of the present invention to minimize or eliminate the need for preparing costly tooling for different current collector designs."

     

    Each individual cell of an Axion PbC is a sandwich of patented positive PbO2 electrodes and patented negative activated carbon electrodes, with AGM or polypropylene separators.

     

    As per their patent, "Hybrid energy storage device and method of making same" US 8023251 B2, priority Oct 2006, pub Sep 2011: "The at least one cell is placed in a *conventional* cast-on machine, such as that used in the manufacture of conventional lead acid batteries (e.g., Dynamac® COS machine manufactured by MAC Engineering)." NOTE for noobs like me: A cast-on machine attaches electrodes (specifically, the current collectors) into cells, and cells into (superca)batteries, by casting (using molten lead) a lead strap onto the tabs of individual electrodes to connect them to one another as desired. The Axion patent claims all serial and parallel connectivity possibilities for any standard form factor. I feel fairly certain (99%) that Axion must currently be using a Dynamac® COS machine manufactured by MAC Engineering to make their PbCs.

     

    At this time Axion is the ONLY commercially operating supercabattery manufacturer. I like that. Not saying that it’s the best business plan with the highest margin, but I also can’t say it’s not.

     

    Over the years, I have worked with numerous instruments which were only available (at the time) from a single manufacturer. And they had great margins, let me tell you. Some are still in business; like Thermo, Dionex (before Thermo gobbled them up), Biorad, names some of you may know.

     

    Axion Inside. On the outside. Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking.
    13 Jun, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Edmund, On the point of Axion scaling and building batteries I choose that they not take on this task. Axion does not have the resources or the expertise to optimize this portion of the process. Heck, I don't even think they really have the expertise at this point to optimize the building of the carbon electrodes. And I don't see anyone yet willing to come forward and give them capital to take on these added tasks. Best IMO to utilize the resources that already exist in the world for LAB production. So where the heck is that partner?
    13 Jun, 02:52 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1476) | Send Message
     
    iindelco, re': "Axion does not have the resources or the expertise to optimize this portion of the process."

     

    Well, as a manufacturer, Axion seems to me to be doing OK. The PbCs they built seem to be passing the pudding test. Just because they are small does not mean they lack resources or expertise. Nor does it have to be perfectly optimized before it should be made in quantity.
    But I recognize it's not their only path and that I can't well judge what might be a better one and could be persuaded otherwise.
    Steve Jobs started in his garage and lacked "resources" and "expertise". Didn't need them, apparently.
    13 Jun, 03:54 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2353) | Send Message
     
    EM,

     

    Good points but Steve Jobs has charisma by the ton. TG not so much. That's largely why the PbC messages is unknown outside of this concentrator and Axion still isn't much better off than a university experiment. Maybe someday soon NS will blow their trumpet and then maybe some utility players but right now the volume is low and seemingly quieter than ever. Even the concentrator and stock volumes are hardly registering a pulse. All this when its supposed to be exciting times with anticipated rollout an an uplisting coming soon (were told).
    13 Jun, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Edmund, All true but the PbC battery has competitors and the value proposition would be greater to some if the cost were reduced through better/more efficient scale. Not to mention possible hesitation on the part of some prospective end users due to the less than stellar capital structure at Axion.
    13 Jun, 04:18 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1416) | Send Message
     
    bazoo, those are assumptions you are making. The industry surely knows about the PbC. That is why multiple auto, rail, and truck companies have talked to Axion. Also at least 2 battery manufacturers. Plus ALABC.

     

    It's only the market that doesn't know about Axion, and that's what every microcap stock gets. Unfortunately for Axion they went public too early, so investment banks have no stake in promoting their stock. But that's good for us, or else we'd be paying 5 bucks per share now.

     

    Where we went wrong was underestimating the time it would take to design all the systems to work with the PbC. Now that grid, rail and truck is coming online, I've never been more positive about the risk/reward.
    13 Jun, 04:20 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2353) | Send Message
     
    Ranma,

     

    There still seems to be great risk when the Axion coffers are almost empty and a placement may occur at historical lows after factoring in a discount.

     

    If you're only interested in seeing the PbC in the wild; sure the risk is lessened since we know NS will at least but a few.

     

    But as a shareholder how can you be happy with the stock prospects right now with low volume and low price - and no longer any whales exiting to blame.

     

    I'd argue the Axion chart will show great risk/reward tradeoff only after a successful placement. Too many have tried to call a bottom on this one and few (if any) are averaged in low enough that they won't be under water after a discounted placement.
    13 Jun, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1416) | Send Message
     
    IMO this placement is the last great hurdle which no doubt contributes to the share price. But, it's not a done deal that the placement will be damaging. It may limit future upside, sure, but I don't believe it will be short term negative vis a vis today's price. Personally I believe an uplisting will make the raise a wash as far as share price goes, and we have time for NS and PC catalysts to up our valuation. When I say risk/reward, I don't means that reward isn't capped by share count. I mean that I believe today's prices have a small risk of being a losing bet.

     

    I do have the fortunate position of having a low cost basis, so perhaps I feel differently than some longs. But I have been adding to lower my cost basis, and believe that others should as well.
    13 Jun, 05:36 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >Ranma ... After a very long, I've come to the point that I'm resigned to the idea that I may never live long enough to make a respectable ROI or possibly breakeven. Still with no sales I've no interest in lowering the cost of dead money.

     

    More is now required than shareholder enthusiasm. I've a lot of faith in the device. I see the best hope for renewed interest on my part is business execution (?) or a disaster in the energy that could, might, possibly ignite the sector & drag Axion along for the ride ... so to speak.
    13 Jun, 06:34 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1416) | Send Message
     
    Would you buy AXPW today if you didn't own any shares nor have in the past? That's really the question to ask. Our past purchases are in the past. The only question that matters is if we believe the price will go up from here. Whether you bet new money in AXPW or another stock is the same thing - just a bet.

     

    Unless we get another round of PIPE sharks, the chances of AXPW falling back to lows is slim. Even if we get a 20% haircut, I actually think that is better than where we are at now. We've fallen 20% already on low volume since the BySolar news. Better off getting it over with, so lurkers will start tiptoeing in. This low volume is actually worse for us than the financing!

     

    An uplist to NASDAQ would help tremendously.

     

    And that's not to mention potential NS and PC sales. Or even an ePower order later this year.
    13 Jun, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >Ranma ... Uplisting wiil help, I believe. It still may not be enough to attract steady money & trades, but I can hope. This doesn't answer your question, so here it is.

     

    If I was not invested already there is no way I'd start and won't bring it up to other anymore either. I've learned my lesson. With no sales there is nothing to invest in. After all these years of following the company closely, and the device fo 20 years, I still can't point enough information to make a compelling financial case. The technical case is more convincing, yet still far from solid if anyone is looking for publicly available info, excluding what is found on this forum because even average investors dismiss blogs & pay them no nevermind.
    13 Jun, 07:18 PM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (660) | Send Message
     
    Edmund, just remember, Steve Jobs has made less than 100 computers. And Apple has never made a single one except for prototypes. Apple is "Apple" software, Intel Inside with a few Other Maverick stuff included.

     

    I think we'd be thrilled to follow the Apple model. We sell a little black stick and someone else make what they make well.
    13 Jun, 10:04 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2353) | Send Message
     
    Ranma,

     

    You are spot on. Low volume and upcoming placement is a killer. That is why most would not touch Axion at this time. It's kind of a chicken and egg problem, but sadly JP's ZRPSOD theory isn't gaining traction anymore. This board used to have a big bad wolf in the PIPErs (and all others before them) but now there is noone to blame yet the stock languishes even in the face of brighter prospects. Axion pr is terrible and JP likely won't be writing Axion articles that get 300+ comments anymore. Maya's theory about Axionistas selling to each other and playing bumper cars seems to be more likely. These concentrators do little to attract new money and maybe at some level only exist to comfort old money and/or agitate it.
    14 Jun, 03:09 AM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (752) | Send Message
     
    We have many "pleasant theories" here on where the stock price will go. Up listing being the newest source of hope/fear.

     

    Maybe if the PbC would catch fire like an Li-ion, that would at least make "news".

     

    You would think that a PbC being used to charge a Telsa would be good for at least some blog posts.
    "Steady Charge From Solar Powers Up Tesla"
    14 Jun, 09:06 AM Reply Like
  • 212138
    , contributor
    Comments (132) | Send Message
     
    >gt: Yesterday, IIRC, Arge suggested hooking a U-Haul (with an "Axion Inside" label) with an extension cord to the Tesla for long trips. That would be great PR I think. But it seems like another application for the PbC might be helping out at the (solar and/or wind powered) Tesla charging stations. Which is already being tested by a private Tesla owner? Honestly, I think this thing is getting ready to rip.
    14 Jun, 09:40 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    "If I was not invested already there is no way I'd start and won't bring it up to other anymore either."

     

    Not a chance on either front.
    14 Jun, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (966) | Send Message
     
    DRich, i would be buying today. that said if you have no case for today you should sell. the hardest thing to do is sell your losers before they wipeout any remaining value.
    14 Jun, 03:34 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >Mathieu Malcot ... Forgive me if I don't follow your advice. Such is the nature of speculation.

     

    I'm not all gloom & doom because things could change. I just see it as we've been down this road twice before and I'm along for the ride on the strength of the device, but I now want to know if those leading this trek into the weeds know the trail goes somewhere. I also feel that I shouldn't encourage others to join me in this wilderness.
    14 Jun, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    What happens when there's so many rooftop solar installations that there's more energy being generated than being used?

     

    Permits being granted decline.

     

    In several areas of Hawaii, this is the case.

     

    -- But the utility [HECO] has moved into unknown territory at these PV penetration rates. After having its foot on the accelerator for the last few years, the utility appears to be putting the brakes on for new PV installs.

     

    -- There were 2,966 permits issued in the first five months of this year versus 5,117 permits issued in the same time period in 2013.

     

    -- According to the utility, "This unprecedented rapid growth in rooftop solar in Hawaii has resulted in some neighborhood circuits reaching extremely high levels of photovoltaic [penetration]. An increasing number of distribution-level circuits have rooftop PV capacity exceeding 100 percent of the daytime minimum load, the trigger for interconnection studies and possible implementation of safety measures or upgrades before new PV systems on that circuit can be interconnected to the grid."

     

    There is also the issue of the grid being built for one-directional deliverance of electricity, and now, the utility has to deal with bidirectional electricity. A lot of it. Which means, for safety reasons, circuit breakers must be installed.

     

    --At what PV penetration rate does a residential utility circuit become unsafe? What real problems does over-generation present? Who pays for the upgrades to handle the new hardware needs of a bidirectional grid? How will solar installers fare amidst this stall in market growth?

     

    The Oahu-based installer sees this as a "wake-up call" to other utilities. He noted that Hawaiian Electric has been "stellar" in allowing the adoption of renewables, but cited September 6 of last year as being when "the gauntlet came down" and HECO required pre-approval for NEM interconnects. Prior to that, it was just paperwork, according to the installer. He said that the NEM program had been "mismanaged" and suggested that the PUC was asking HECO, "Where is the vision; where is the plan?"

     

    http://bit.ly/SGI3qd
    13 Jun, 02:57 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Battery Maker Boston-Power Raising $250 Million to Compete With Elon Musk

     

    http://on.wsj.com/1iuFX3U
    13 Jun, 03:38 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2353) | Send Message
     
    However if you have lead in your battery secret sauce you can only raise 1/50th that amount and often from more dubious sources it seems.
    13 Jun, 04:13 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Fiddling with tariffs could be death of utilities

     

    http://bit.ly/1ltx9zq
    13 Jun, 03:54 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Not sure how deep this will go but it does make you go hmmm.

     

    Sacred Sun Enters into Technical Assistance Agreement with Furukawa Battery

     

    http://bit.ly/1ltAcHL
    13 Jun, 04:19 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    Furukawa's Ultrabattery license is limited to Japan and Thailand. It would be a monster breach of their CSIRO contract to cooperate with a non-licensed party on that technology.
    13 Jun, 04:33 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >iidelco ... I know Dr. E Buiel explained how & why the UB doesn't work, but maybe it might work "good enough". We shall see.
    13 Jun, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    John, Understood. But w/ the relationship forming could be a precursor to a license and tech. transfer into the Asia Pacific region for CISRO and the UB tech. Just something to watch for.

     

    Edit: BTW both parties are ALABC members as an FYI.

     

    http://bit.ly/XGTz4F
    13 Jun, 04:38 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    DRich, True. It must be "good enough" for some apps as it's getting a bunch of attention. And the two companies that have licensed the tech. and expended money/resources on the technology are not exactly junk dealers. Well in the case of EP they expended a bunch of our money!
    13 Jun, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    Overall, this looks like a punt by Furukawa. A positive for Axion.
    14 Jun, 03:18 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Make sense for Axion to attend?

     

    http://bit.ly/1ltYIIR
    13 Jun, 08:21 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    BTW, this is Richard Rosey's position @ Axion.

     

    http://linkd.in/Il2z5C
    14 Jun, 10:09 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1208) | Send Message
     
    Nice find!
    14 Jun, 01:00 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    Director of Marketing at Axion Power International

     

    "Proven executive with over 40 years experience devoted to the development and commercialization of renewable energy technologies"

     

    Been at Axion since 2009. Uhh, why does this guy still have a job?

     

    John - whatever they have paid him should be give to you.
    14 Jun, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    If Axion or anybody else paid me SA wouldn't publish me.
    14 Jun, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1417) | Send Message
     
    That was also my response:What marketing?
    But then I think about our 'sales manager'...
    15 Jun, 10:57 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    US Battery Manufacturing comments on "Smart Carbon".

     

    New Carbon Additives May Not Be The Best Answer For Battery Sulfation Issues In Renewable Energy Applications

     

    http://bit.ly/1qJgUix
    13 Jun, 09:19 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    Looks like this specifically addresses double-lead-acid problems that are already solved by replacing the negative electrode entirely. Because it is not a fundamentally different cell architechture, probably not patentable and just as easily adopted to PbC if it does in fact improve positive plate life.
    14 Jun, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Patrick, This marketing blurb is intended to give some level of value assessment between the usefulness of carbon additives vs active material balance in LABs compared to "standard" construction methods for PSOC applications. It does not directly address PbC but you are correct in that it doesn't apply IMO. My point in posting it was to show once again that carbon additives are not a huge improvement over standard LABs for PSOC use. One would not get this perspective base on some of the marketing efforts from some of the industry players that have introduced this tech. In other words it looks like it's not a big threat to PbC which we already pretty much knew. BUT it is yet another distraction.
    14 Jun, 04:33 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    I agree that exposing disillusion surrounding carbon additives is a positive for PbC. 15% or even 50 or 100% improvement in some metrics are peanuts compared to 10X and 20X improvements (particularly charge acceptance). I think there is a certain amount of disbelief and hostile resistance on the part of the LAB industry that a single company with a 30 million dollar market cap owns the IP on the only cell chemistry that both leap-frogs performance metrics and can be built on existing manufacturing lines.
    14 Jun, 11:37 PM Reply Like
  • dance621
    , contributor
    Comments (174) | Send Message
     
    Never heard of it myself. But I know you guys go all gooey about things like this.

     

    http://goo.gl/DxwdNN
    14 Jun, 09:21 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (2097) | Send Message
     
    Hi dance,
    Cool article and use of vanadium. My only experience with vanadium was when I was a weldor and used chrome vanadium for hard facing wear items like ripper teeth and plows. Expensive stuff that made the wear items last up to 10 times longer. Used in the mining industry for ore crushers also.
    14 Jun, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    Big move in trades today, +10% to ... 11. :-\

     

    06/13/2014: EOD stuff partially copied from blog (up now).
    # Trds: 11, MinTrSz: 396, MaxTrSz: 6200, Vol: 26407, AvTrSz: 2401
    Min. Pr: 0.1540, Max Pr: 0.1570, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.1560
    # Buys, Shares: 7 13774, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.1569
    # Sells, Shares: 4 12633, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.1550
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1.09:1 (52.16% "buys"), DlyShts 7500 (28.40%), Dly Sht % of 'sells' 59.37%

     

    My overall take there is still no reason for optimism that we'll hold a higher, or even level, price near-term. Of course, with volume again in the dumps, all of this could change quite suddenly. I wouldn't be making any big decisions on any technical factors now.

     

    The low of the day, $0.1540, occurred on one sell of 537 shares at 9:53. The next higher price came on a 396 share sell for $0.1541 10:38. That same price was on a 5.5K sell at 15:03.

     

    The high for the day was set by a single 5K buy for $0.1570 at 11:56. Just below that were six sells at $0.1569 of 637(2) shares at 09:44/48, 2.5K(2) shares at 12:36/38, and 1,250(2) at 13:05/06.

     

    The 160K offer at $0.17, this time from CSTI instead of CDEL, was present today.

     

    Today's low, high, VWAP, trade volume, and daily short sales moved 1.65%, -1.88%, 0.44%, -44.21% and 500.00% respectively. Price spread today was 1.95% vs. 5.61%, 5.89%, 9.93%, 7.71%, 8.26%, 8.01%, 12.52%, 4.81% and 12.62% on prior days.

     

    Today's buy percentage improved to 52.2%. The daily short sales moved to 28.4% from yesterday's 2.64%. On extremely low volume there is no significance to this.

     

    The normal numbers and a little commentary are in the blog here.
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    HardToLove
    14 Jun, 10:06 AM Reply Like
  • tahoe1780
    , contributor
    Comments (94) | Send Message
     
    Nat Gas: http://bit.ly/1qNhk7F
    14 Jun, 05:11 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    I don't recall if this was posted or not. It would seem it would have had to have been posted but just for redumbdancy. pg 40 concerning lead carbon batteries and Axion.

     

    FROM WORKHORSE TO THOROUGHBRED

     

    http://bit.ly/1qNlBId
    14 Jun, 05:32 PM Reply Like
  • greentongue
    , contributor
    Comments (752) | Send Message
     
    "Replacing all the lead in a lead acid battery’s negative plate results in an ultracapacitor, like the technology developed by Axion Power."

     

    Also a heck of a lot cheaper than other utra-caps.
    14 Jun, 06:01 PM Reply Like
  • alsobirdman
    , contributor
    Comments (366) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the link. I like this part;

     

    Already two
    large lead acid battery makers are looking
    to implement Axion’s technology into their
    manufacturing in response to demand
    from end-user customers that want more
    than one source of lead carbon batteries
    14 Jun, 06:02 PM Reply Like
  • tahoe1780
    , contributor
    Comments (94) | Send Message
     
    Aquion?!!
    14 Jun, 08:04 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1416) | Send Message
     
    We always assumed the two lead acid battery makers were partnering with Axion for auto. But what if it was for the growing storage market?
    14 Jun, 11:03 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    We have learned something new: The first PowerCube customer was a "food industry business that lost its electricity supply when Hurricane Sandy hit"
    page 43. http://bit.ly/1qNlBId
    14 Jun, 11:43 PM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    Having trouble finding the right numbers. Anyone care to take a stab? How long can a 500 Kw (like the one we sold) PowerCube power a 10X10 walk in freezer for?

     

    we need to know the kWh of the powercube (300?), the number of kWh a 10X10 freezer uses in an hour (1? = 1 kWh/h or operating at 1000 watts) and output hours. = 300? or 3000 square feet for ten hours?

     

    Lotta hamburgers that don't go to waste.

     

    I think I solved it to first order. Correct me if I'm wrong.

     

    Wholesale beef price today: $2/lb for 85% lean ground.
    15 Jun, 12:04 AM Reply Like
  • Patrick Young
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    Assuming that the 10*10 floorplan is also 10 ft high and assuming 50lbs/cf of meat and that 20,000 of the 30,000 cf in a 3000 sq ft freezer bank is occupied by frozen meat, that is a potential 2 million dollar loss, say 1 million dollar to be conservative. That pays for the PowerCube several times over in case of a power failure.
    15 Jun, 12:40 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    If true, contravenes what we've thought about EP's interest in auto?

     

    "The Ultrabattery is also advanced in the certification process of major automotive manufacturers. Generic products and solutions based on the Ultrabattery are being released progressively globally".

     

    HardToLove
    15 Jun, 06:08 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    East Penn is a wonderful company, but they have no more ability to serve automotive than Axion does. They have one manufacturing campus in Pennsylvania and a highly profitable business that generates over a billion dollars a year in revenue. It's an extraordinary family company, but it is most definitely a FAMILY company with no dreams of global prominence.

     

    If the Ultrabattery was being developed by an Enersys, JCI or Exide, a major manufacturer with a truly global footprint, it might be a player in the global automotive market. Since the core technology has only been licensed for automotive applications in North America, Japan and Thailand, the "generic product releases" Monahov talks about are far less impressive than we imagine.
    15 Jun, 06:19 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >Ranma ... Anyway a manufacturing partnership happens, for whatever the reason so much the better. Even essential. Things have been pretty quiet on this front for more than a year. It's just another source of hope & nothing solid.
    14 Jun, 11:12 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1416) | Send Message
     
    What I mean is that a partnership may be more forthcoming than we thought. We know that one was introduced by BMW, but the one that came to Axion on its own we know nothing about. If it's not for auto, maybe things are moving faster.
    14 Jun, 11:52 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4429) | Send Message
     
    >Ranma ... I've more or less given up on BMW & don't think anything will happen there before 2017. The OEM that came to Axion on its own is intriguing to guess. My two favorites are East Penn & Exide, which will be unpopular here. First is East Penn because of existing relationships The second,Exide, because it is under nearly completely new management in N. America and will be desperate for a distinguishing product line when they emerge from BK. The emergence will begin in earnest starting with the end of this month and the submission of a reorganization plan.
    15 Jun, 12:58 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    DRich, Good point. Exide will be a "New and Improved" company when it emerges. But it, like GM, will still have plenty of warts and will need a little makeup for some distinction from the pack. Then there are a few others, with less of a footprint mind you, that also could find a place for PbC such as Metair who just made a move into Eastern Europe and Turkey with a couple larger acquisitions.

     

    All good food for thought but first the tech. needs a sponsor to show its hand. Well unless someone can make a power play and squeeze TG on the cheap. Right now TG doesn't have much ammo to defend the fort other than catapulting existing stock holders over the wall. And he's not exactly going out of his way to convince the masses that his strategy will be changing anytime soon. At least I can't see it happening in 6 months. But it better be or I need to dig into that "How to Fly and Land Gracefully" article.
    15 Jun, 11:53 AM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (660) | Send Message
     
    DRich, several years ago I bought Enersys, Axion, and Exide. Did nicely with Enersys. Got crushed with Exide which I sold, and Axion which I still hold.

     

    At this point I'm one for three. If the partners turn out to be Exide and Enersys I'd be three for three. Trickling back into XIDE once every six months just for fun. I have to admit I don't trust the culture there however. TG may trust it less.

     

    :>)
    15 Jun, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • User 393748
    , contributor
    Comments (218) | Send Message
     
    Regarding Elon Musk's statement claiming to offer "all of Tesla's patents to the public" or to the open source movement, some clarifications are in order.

     

    Elon musk may be saying that he is giving up Tesla's patents, but a detailed reading of his statement and a perusal of the applicable law shows that that is really not the case. It is a little more complicated than that.

     

    First, by saying that he will not sue anyone who, "in good faith, wants to use our technology," he is saying that he retains the right to sue anyone for patent infringement. If he is of the opinion that someone is using Tesla's inventions "in bad faith", his only legal option is to sue for patent infringement. There is no such legal claim of suing because someone is using a patent holder's invention in "bad faith." That does not exist. So, all that Musk could do in that case is sue for patent infringement. And, by the way, he would not have to prove "bad faith usage" on the part of the infringer, because, at law there is no such thing as
    "bad faith usage" of an invention.

     

    Second, he says that Tesla will still patent any new inventions that it develops in the future in order to prevent others from "stealing" Tesla's patents. The cure for this problem is quite simple: it can be overcome simply by publishing one's own work on the invention, and not engaging the patent process at all, thereby putting the invention into public domain. Making the invention for sale and never applying for a patent is another option. Either of these methods would preclude anyone (including Tesla) from getting a patent on any of Tesla's future inventions.

     

    Third, this is not an open source move, because a core tenet of the open source model is to allow people to work on projects in an environment that if free of patents, and hence, an environment that is free from law suits.

     

    Fourth, since he is, by all appearances, not abandoning any of Tesla's existing patents, he really has no choice but to sue potential patent infringers, because, under patent law there is a "use it or lose it" feature. Any unreasonable delay in suing for infringement could result in the infringer winning the case and thereby being allowed to legally use the invention as its
    own, and owing Tesla, the patent holder, absolutely nothing in damages. Plus, Tesla, in losing such a case might well have to pay for all or part of the infringer's legal costs, which could total in the millions of dollars.

     

    So, it is apparent that he is not abandoning Tesla inventions. This is clear from him retaining the right to sue anyone for patent infringement, and, it is also clear from his stated intention to continue to patent all of Tesla's future inventions.

     

    The popular consensus so far, is that Musk is abandoning all of Tesla's patents. That is not what is happening. For him to abandon Tesla's inventions, he would have to take clear, definite, and unambiguous steps that leave no doubt that he intended to abandon Tesla's patents and has, in fact, abandoned those patents.

     

    At trial, a Court will presume that a patent is valid, and the burden of proving that a patent holder has abandoned a patented invention falls upon the shoulders of the potential infringer. The issue of abandonment is a question of fact, and not a question of law, and the defense of abandonment requires clear and convincing factual evidence that the patent holder has abandoned the invention. Again, Musk stating that he retains the right to sue anyone for patent infringement and that he intends to continue to obtain patents would seem to be enough to cause a potential infringer's defence of abandonement to fail.

     

    The declaration of "All our patent belong to you" could be to help out the gigafactory program or it could be an invitation to other companies to enter into cooperation or licensing agreements with Tesla. These agreements could have a clause in them stating that Tesla and the other party agree to not sue each other for patent infringement during the course of the agreement and for the inventions covered in the agreement.

     

    It is more likely than not that any company interested in using any of Tesla's patented technology as a result of Musk's offer would not want to take the risk of doing so without getting some kind of enforceable legal agreement from Musk that would allow it to use that technology in legal safety.

     

    Musk's offer of giving up inventions is not new. A stated claim by a company of giving up its patents has happened before. It has occurred twice in the computer world. In the auto world, apparently Volvo did this with its invention of the three point seat belt. However, there is a difference in that in the computer cases and in Volvo's case, they truly did give the tech away without any legal sword of Damocles hanging over the head of those that took the companies at their word and used the offered technology.

     

    In reality, the situation regarding Tesla's patents has not changed very much with Musk's announced offer. It does not allow for the free use of Tesla's patents with no risk of being sued for infringement. But, where it has effected a change is to invite GM, Ford, BMW, Audi, and any and all others with an interest in, and ideas for, the electrification of the automoble, to feel free to approach Musk with their ideas, and enter into development agreements in the hopes of significantly furthering the advancement of electric vehicles, and concommitantly, furthering the success of the Tesla Motor Company.
    15 Jun, 04:49 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    This might be the new quad copter owner that Metro indicated was around the Altoona yard. Nothing NS 999 related that I could see from the video.

     

    Juniata Locomotive Shops

     

    http://bit.ly/1q1z7bj

     

    Edit: Nice sound track for VW
    15 Jun, 05:33 PM Reply Like
  • Valleywood
    , contributor
    Comments (660) | Send Message
     
    ii, nice catch !

     

    I'll have to admit that I like this view from my chair rather than the view from the ground at 4:00 a.m.

     

    Had lotsa those latter ones, and much prefer yours.

     

    :>)

     

    Oscar for the soundtrack?
    16 Jun, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    VW: Grammy!

     

    HardToLove
    16 Jun, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Storage Is the New Solar: Will Batteries and PV Create an Unstoppable Hybrid Force?

     

    http://bit.ly/SNbzuF
    16 Jun, 07:32 AM Reply Like
  • axion-nl
    , contributor
    Comments (138) | Send Message
     
    when is NS 999 rolled out and evaluated in an actuel operating environment? Somewhere this summer?
    16 Jun, 08:45 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    Hopefully the process will start sometime this month.
    16 Jun, 08:50 AM Reply Like
  • axion-nl
    , contributor
    Comments (138) | Send Message
     
    let's hope they make a big show of it!
    16 Jun, 10:44 AM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (843) | Send Message
     
    "let's hope they make a big show of it!"
    ---
    I was hoping the pps would catapult to .20 on news of the NS rollout, but have given up on that hope. Somebody posted a while back they didn't think there would even be an announcement until the NS999 was up and running for some time. I've also come to believe that will likely be the case (I hope I'm wrong).

     

    Which leaves us with PC sales, which TG indicated would be forthcoming last Aug. 15, 2013, to create pps movement (healing?) before the fall financing. We're now about 7 months past due on those, so I have my doubts on that possibility as well.
    16 Jun, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • Nicu Mihalache
    , contributor
    Comments (1034) | Send Message
     
    haven't you heard of the sale of 4 PC to a repeat customer a few weeks ago? or already forgot?
    17 Jun, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    Nicu,

     

    At the rate that the installs are going, Axion may only have the first one installed this year. And TG admittedly stated that the sale did not meet his measure of significant.
    17 Jun, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1476) | Send Message
     
    Stefan,

     

    re': "And TG admittedly stated that the sale did not meet his measure of significant. "

     

    This is a case of semantics getting worn out. TG never stated "these 4 PowerCubes are not significant sales" or that they weren't part of the significant sales he had spoken of. Certainly it seems that they are not all the sales he had in mind (to which I say, good!).

     

    wrt, "At the rate the installs are going...": What rate? We have n=1 install with Bysolar. Axion's part was installed quite a time before the remainder of the project. Axion had to wait on others. Axion was not the rate-limiting step. In any case, the first few times a project is attempted, whether one is a general or a sub contractor, it is appropriate to proceed with caution, climb the learning curve and pace and place the work thoughtfully.

     

    Your comment is stated as a put-down, but an undeserved one. I think you lean in that direction quite often. Not complaining, just saying.
    17 Jun, 10:20 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (673) | Send Message
     
    Edmund, I do not share Stefan's negative mindset towards T.G., but T.G. did make it very clear on the last CC that the announced sales of 4 power cubes did not meet his definition of significant sales. I take this in a positive light. Even though there have been many unspecified delays, there are much larger, significant sales in the pipeline. It also shows that T.G. is not attempting to take himself off the hook by delivering smaller sales than he had expected. If he were a shady character he could have easily crowed that he met his 6 month deadline.

     

    I am in agreement with you taking PbcBeliever to task below for badgering others to prove their claims and then failing to identify himself or back up his own claims.
    17 Jun, 10:40 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, My suspicion has been as you suggest. It was noted that on the first Bysolar order a good bit of detail was given on the payment schedule and expected installation timing. Not so on the second order. I think the second order is more similar to the ePower order where there is intent but not firm timing.

     

    TG has IMO for some time shown us his union contract negotiating skills. He is able to stretch things right to, but not beyond, certain limits. He is a leader of sheeple. Not a liar mind you. How else can one explain his timing record? I do not buy into the thought that it's all outside of his control. Much of the implementation timing is but his perchance in relaying missed timing is not.
    17 Jun, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2558) | Send Message
     
    Ed,

     

    "Axion was not the rate-limiting step."

     

    Wrt to the initial Bysolar project, I agree. The negativity was at the planning/implementation process of the industry in general and how difficult it will be to ramp stationary storage sales.

     

    The reason that I originally took the Axion plunge was based on what I, erroneously, thought would be an auto OEM design-win by fall of '13. I was wrong. Now I just want a realistic understanding of where auto stands.

     

    In the past, ZBB often announced projects and did not get them installed for a year or two or never in some cases.

     

    ii - I also agree.
    17 Jun, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • PbC Believer
    , contributor
    Comments (258) | Send Message
     
    Axion Power Host et al,Would anyone care to share with this board their chart of AXPW's historic cash burn rate and a projection of Axion's cash position for the remainder of 2014? Managements last Q said that they run out of cash at the end of Q3 and can survive into early Q4.
    It also seems appropriate that we follow charts of both the total revenues from sales and also the PbC revenues since these are the most telling historical numbers with respect to Axion's marketing successes and PbC sales will most likely be the biggest upward driver of the share price going forward. Axion's BoD no doubt studies such charts monthly and I think we shareholders should be doing the same on a quarterly basis. If no one routinely does these charts I am willing to put them together from the past Qs and Ks, with the projected cash position being based only on the most recent burn rate.
    16 Jun, 08:56 AM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (871) | Send Message
     
    They seem to pretty consistently burn through a little less that $2M per quarter even with the tolling contract income. When that goes away, it is anybody's guess. Some seem to think they were not making any profit on the tolling contract, so maybe it will not affect the burn rate, but I would guess they would have to shed some staff without that revenue.
    16 Jun, 09:06 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    I maintain a spreadsheet with the historical revenue and working capital numbers with sales broken down to segregate toll contract revenues from other revenues.

     

    http://bit.ly/SNrmth

     

    I've always been reluctant to prepare forecasts because that's an inherently imprecise exercise.
    16 Jun, 09:53 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8850) | Send Message
     
    OT, Cheap beats cool. Or so I've heard.

     

    Coal’s Share of World Energy Demand at Highest Since 1970

     

    http://bloom.bg/1p8kGTc
    16 Jun, 10:11 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    June 13, 2014 -- Best article to date I have read about vanadium; the history of vanadium (all the way back to 300BC!), how vanadium "may" be huge in Hawaii for bidirectional energy storage; how vanadium is important to steelmakers, that Henry Ford used vanadium, and recently, so is the NY Subway for energy storage, to the only company in the US that produces vanadium, to supply issues, to how vanadium works (fantastic!), all the way to "sea squirts," which accumulate vanadium in their bodies, and someday may be harvested.

     

    http://bbc.in/SNCfv4

     

    Hat tip to my Honduran archeologist pal for the above link.
    16 Jun, 11:22 AM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (257) | Send Message
     
    Great link & snapshot Maya, thanks.
    16 Jun, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (257) | Send Message
     
    I know the flow battery characteristics have been talked about at length and repeatedly in this forum. My bad that I generally glossed over the same due to lack of interest. Mayascribe's link above and quick look at the American Vanadium (AVC.tsxv, AVCVQ.otc) website (link below) has just changed my outlook.

     

    http://bit.ly/1p8MY01

     

    If any of you excellent technical posters would care to visit/revisit the flow battery and particularly AVC's Flow Battery it would be much appreciated. Also, how much of a competitor is this battery to the Axion 'PowerCube'?

     

    AVC management and the Board appear to be first class. The 'vertical integration' (mine the vanadium, build the Vanadium battery) concept makes sense to me.

     

    52wk range ~.311/.822 , now @.64.

     

    Will dig deeper and share as appropriate.

     

    16 Jun, 12:28 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    geopark: On the same page as you. First thing I researched this morning was Liquid Metals Technology (OTCQB:LQMT), not battery related, and now you beat me to looking into American Vandium. The video on American Vandium's website of the CEO talking about vanadium was revealing, to say the least.

     

    I recall TG talking about how the PbC was tested up to 100,000 light duty cycles for the automotive sector, but will always recall being perplexed as to why testing didn't go on further, with the grid in mind. I guess that testing is back up and running, and the PbC, IIRC, has now surpassed 300,000 cycles.

     

    In my opinion, this is another communication gaffe, or just lack of foresight coming from New Castle.

     

    Now we learn that American Vanadium's battery will last at least 20 years.

     

    Great BBC interview video, and I wish that TG would do the same. It looks like American Vanadium is a major competitor to Axion when it comes to the grid, and in fact, is way ahead in sales.

     

    Contemplating buying some (OTCQX:AVCVF), but it's up over 20% today.
    16 Jun, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    When we did the cycle life testa on early PbC prototypes the process took a couple years. By the time we stopped testing the Gen1 devices we were building Gen3 and Gen4 devices that were more advanced and more durable than Gen1. As long as your technology is evolving, the value of continuing tests on a technologically obsolete vintage device is limited.

     

    American Vanadium is a junior mining company that had $2.5 million in equity at the end of last year and reported no sales revenue.

     

    http://bit.ly/1p99ZzU

     

    With 47 million shares outstanding its market cap is about 10x book.

     

    Sometimes pretty Canadian websites and great PR tell less than the whole truth.
    16 Jun, 01:22 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    Maya: Been watching this one for a long time, not jumped yet. The Apple relationship may hold great promise, but has yet to bear fruit after several years.

     

    The biggest win for (OTCQB:LQMT) so far has been the canard for a Lockheed-Martin missile. Another win, although I don't know how significant yet, is with Omega watches, IIRC.

     

    They are currently in arbitration with Vissar (?) Precision Casting, one of their early licensees and producers.

     

    Recent development of automated casting machinery from a major name may speed things along as it allows easy, quick and relatively inexpensive export to markets world-wide.

     

    Sill waiting here.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Jun, 01:37 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    JP: Appreciate your linking the PDF.

     

    American Vanadium needs to raise another ~$95M to get its new mine up and running.

     

    Institutional ownership is up in the last few months to 20% (Dundee).

     

    http://binged.it/1p9nq2R

     

    Maybe you should add this company to storage companies that you track?

     

    After all, they are currently involved with the New York subway, are involved with California RFPs (and more), hold interest from automotive OEMs, and intends to become vertically integrated by opening their own mine in Nevada, where vanadium is lying around, right on top of the ground.

     

    Yes, I agree the website is pretty. But at first blush, it appears to be a whole lot more informative than Axion's.

     

    I sure learned a lot, and recommend to any owner of Axion, to take a few moments to at least watch the videos on American Vanadium's website. My takeaway, is that American Vanadium is a much bigger competitor to Axion than I had previously known.

     

    http://bit.ly/1p9nob5
    16 Jun, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • nogoodslacker
    , contributor
    Comments (871) | Send Message
     
    Not much mention about vanadium toxicity, especially in oxidized form dissolved in an acid solution as would be the case for a flow battery.
    16 Jun, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    JP: I will also add that even though Axion has newer editions of the PbC, the testing of the version 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 should have continued, even if they were obsolete.

     

    If the obsolete batteries were still cycling, that means to me that the newer versions should surpass whatever light duty cycles well into the 100s of thousands of light duty cycles the older version "had already" obtained.

     

    I guess this is another example of where we'll have to agree to disagree.
    16 Jun, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, HTL: LQMT is an interesting company, with lots of potential. Just worried about a reverse split.

     

    As always, have much more to learn.
    16 Jun, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • WayneinOregon
    , contributor
    Comments (843) | Send Message
     
    "My takeaway, is that American Vanadium is a much bigger competitor to Axion than I had previously known."
    ---
    Maya, I read the article, and noticed it never mentioned frequency regulation, which is where the PbC shines. At first glance, ISTM PbC's FR capabilities could work very well alongside vanadium's storage capabilities.
    16 Jun, 02:49 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    Wayne: In one of the videos I watched today, CEO, Bill Radvak, spoke of how fast his battery could respond, i.e., to take on a charge, or deliver electricity.
    16 Jun, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    Wayne: Agree with you and JP that American Vanadium would/could be doing the 4 hour/8hour bulk storage, while the PbC would be doing the much faster pulling and pushing of electricity.

     

    Largely because of what American Vanadium's CEO said, "...that our vanadium battery can absorb or deliver power, almost instantaneously," on a the BNN interview of Bill Radvak from AV's website, I did a little research today.

     

    -- c) The VRB has an instantaneous response in the order of milliseconds and is capable of high-rate discharge over short periods several times larger than the rated output. Consequently, the VRB is well-suited to absorbing the irregular output fluctuations inherent to renewable energy generation.

     

    http://bit.ly/T2H2JB

     

    Okay, so how fast is "instantaneous? What is the response time?"

     

    Faster than the PbC, at <50 milliseconds (PbC is 55 milliseconds).

     

    Which leads me to believe that American Vanadium is a major for real competitor to Axion Power.

     

    Much more research needs to be done, and there are likely a lot of caveats, some I have thought of, and highly possibly a lot I have not thought of, but from this lay person's POV, American Vanadium, about the same market cap as AXPW, is one to track.

     

    -- They have had several recent high level personnel changes

     

    -- They just did an $8M cap raise in November, and have zero debt (that I could see)

     

    -- They are involved with New York's Mass Transit Authority, the single largest user of electricity on the planet

     

    -- They hold interest from Auto OEMs; have a car that can go 600 miles on a single charge (need more DD on this aspect)

     

    -- Recently, the stock now has 20% institutional ownership (the chart "suggests" that IO is growing, not leveling off)

     

    -- When combined with wind or solar, they have island nation capabilities

     

    -- They are VERY likely competing against Axion in California for large scale RFP contracts; probably elsewhere, too

     

    -- Perhaps most important, is that American Vanadium has ownership to where they can in the future (in around 18 months) mine their own "activated carbon" -- vanadium -- in Nevada; the vanadium is laying right on top of the ground. Shovel deep.

     

    The major expense for American Vanadium, is the vanadium (and funding the future mine), which I learned today is about 40% of the cost to the flow battery.

     

    But, there is also an expensive membrane that I need to learn more about.

     

    Before today, I had always thought that the vanadium flow battery was not a direct competitor to Axion Power. After what I learned today, now I'm not so sure.

     

    I think geopark is on to something.
    16 Jun, 09:12 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    American Vanadium is not a battery manufacturer. It's the North American Distributor for a German battery manufacturer that will apparently be a customer for American Vanadium's mine output, if there ever is any mine output. When junior miners start holding themselves out as energy storage experts, something is desperately wrong.
    16 Jun, 09:18 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1416) | Send Message
     
    No mention of cost? I can't imagine how mining will be cost competitive to buying coconut carbon. In addition, it looks to be a lithium-vanadium combo.
    16 Jun, 09:25 PM Reply Like
  • JamesBBecker
    , contributor
    Comments (176) | Send Message
     
    Ranma:: Cost is a doubly complicated question because it involves not only cost per unit storage, but cost per unit power.

     

    Reading though a few articles, the only thing I saw was $500/kwh, which isn't really that cheap for a "energy storage solution". It never mentioned the power rating of such a device, but I imagine it depends on the flow rate. I'd be surprised if they had a low cost per KW, as they are always listed as a energy storage concept, not a high power surge concept.
    16 Jun, 11:06 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    Maya> Flow batteries store their electrolyte solutions in large tanks where they're completely non-reactive. They pass the electrolytes through a much smaller reaction chamber before moving them on into the storage tanks.

     

    Any battery can respond instantaneously to a grid signal, so that's not a defining characteristic. A flow battery, however, can only respond instantaneously with the electrolytes that are in the reaction chamber when the response is required and that's typically a minuscule percentage of the total system level electrolyte volume.

     

    While it is probably true that American Vanadium has "an instantaneous response in the order of milliseconds and is capable of high-rate discharge over short periods several times larger than the rated output," that ability will always be limited to the power stored in the reaction chamber. Once you need more than the electrolyte in the reaction chamber can handle, you fall back to the rated output.
    17 Jun, 05:38 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (1476) | Send Message
     
    Present-day flow batteries are NOT a competitor to the Axion PbC supercabattery. While they can be constructed with massive capacity (e.g., using tank farms), the fact that the charge carriers are diluted in a liquid needing to diffuse to a membrane makes them unsuitable for the frequency regulation market. The dilute charge carrier property is delimiting and limiting.

     

    Second, their so-called "instantaneous response", which many batteries have I'd imagine, is irrelevant as they are shooting peas - effective efficient frequency regulation requires instantaneous POWER. That's not flow batteries.

     

    Flow batteries are intended/envisioned/being developed for slow-and-steady long-term delivery of energy and are one of few batteries that might be called suitable for grid-scale load-shifting storage.

     

    Side note: There are flow batteries being considered in which the liquids are more like slurries, greatly enhancing the concentration of charge carriers; an activated carbon slurry might be interesting. I'm at work, so no link, but there's work being done at or with MIT (IIRC) in this slurry-flow field.
    17 Jun, 07:22 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17299) | Send Message
     
    Through 11:50, (OTCQB:AXPW), as *some* volume returns, not so good.
    # Buys, Shares: 3 1372, VW Avg Buy Pr: $0.1569
    # Sells, Shares: 12 84018, VW Avg Sell Pr: $0.1539
    VW Avg. Tr. Pr: $0.1539, Buy:Sell 1:61.24 (01.61% "buys")

     

    The three buys were all at $0.1569 for 636(2) and 100 shares 9:30-9:36.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Jun, 12:03 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    I published the first of a planned series of articles on stationary storage applications this morning.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    There's nothing new for most participants in this forum, but I've grown weary of dealing with EVangelicals and am going back to a more hard core focus on the storage sector.
    16 Jun, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • geopark
    , contributor
    Comments (257) | Send Message
     
    Oops, posted my comment above before I saw this post John, expect many of my questions are addressed there. Thanks.
    16 Jun, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29569) | Send Message
     
    The big issue facing flow battery manufacturers is charge and discharge speed. Flow batteries are typically designed to charge over a period of several hours and then discharge over a period of several hours. That basically means you can fill and empty your energy store once or twice per day.

     

    Even if your input electricity is free, you can cycle the system twice a day and your stored electricity is worth $0.25 per kWh, your annual revenue opportunity is on the order of $182.50 per year before depreciation, operating costs and maintenance.

     

    The reason the PowerCube has a solid payback is that the bulk of its capacity can be discharged and recovered in less than an hour, which gives rise to dozens of revenue opportunities per day instead of one or two.

     

    Sandia National Laboratories has published a couple of papers that do a deep dive on the relative value of 17 different storage applications. Fast applications like FR and short-duration renewable integration are worth thousands of dollars per year for a kWh of capacity while slow applications like price arbitrage and renewable time shift are typically worth less than $150 per year for a kWh of capacity.
    16 Jun, 12:48 PM Reply Like
  • Sohkubo
    , contributor
    Comments (98) | Send Message