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  • Axion Power Concentrator 79: Beginning March 21, 2012, Bangwhiz's Article, Selling The PbC Battery - It's Not Easy Being Green! 173 comments
    Mar 21, 2012 4:08 AM | about stocks: AXPW

    These instablogs and the people who maintain them have no relationship whatsoever to Axion Power International other than possibly being shareholders and/or interested potential investors. To our direct knowledge no person with a current relationship to Axion Power International participates or follows the activities in these instablogs.

    With that out of the way ...

    Be sure and either follow the Axion Power Host ID on Seeking Alpha or click the check-box labeled "track new comments on this article" just ahead of the comments section!

    A gem of an article by Bangwhiz:

    Selling The PbC Battery - It's Not Easy Being Green!

    There are two important facts about the Axion PbC battery stockholders need to understand. First, it is not a commodity product like bananas or standard lead acid batteries. Its different. Secondly, being different engineers have to design new systems versus whatever they've done before if they are to benefit from its unique performance characteristics. That means change, and like the Eagles sang in their song Sad Cafe, "But things in this life change very slowly, if they ever change at all."

    People and organizations resist change unless they are either forced by some outside pressure, or the benefits to them are so great it is sufficient motivation alone. In the case of the PbC battery two organizations, Norfolk Southern and BMW, were drawn to the PbC battery because they had a problem the PbC might solve for them. Conventional commodity lead acid batteries were not up to the demands of stop start automobiles or battery powered electric locomotives. They were embracing and seeking change.

    Inventors have been waving magic beans in front of engineers eyes forever and often those magic beans lose their magic very quickly when engineers attempt to put them to practical use. Consequently, engineers are inherently skeptical of anything new until it has proven itself truly useful and reliable.

    Because the PbC battery has different electrical and performance characteristics engineers at a fork lift manufacturer, auto company, railroad, or any other company will need to design and build new electrical and or mechanical subsystems specifically engineered for the PbC battery before they can benefit from the PbC 's magic beans.

    BMW and Norfolk Southern possessed a strong enough interest in the PbC to commit to the time and money required to conduct preliminary test and evaluation programs followed by conceptual system designs, then building actual prototype systems made specifically for the PbC. That has been followed by more test and evaluation of the prototype systems and perhaps modifications to the prototypes leading to a final design. This activity would be coupled with trade off studies of any final PbC system design versus all the other possible solutions including detailed cost benefit number crunching studies. The engineers design and develop, the bean counters rule.

    Because of any non-disclosure agreements Axion has signed we do not know the status of most of the ongoing potential customer development programs for the PbC battery. Big organizations are big because they haven't made any big mistakes. It is an inherent slow process demanding patience from Axion and its stockholders. No one is more anxious to sell the the PbC battery and produce millions of PbC electrodes for the lead acid industry than Axion's management. It is just going to take the time it takes and not a minute less.

    Axion does have one product not subject to so much trial and tribulation - the PowerCube ranging in size from the mini-cube to 20MWs. You could almost write a design spec and purchase order on the back of a napkin. 10 MWs standby power for 30 minutes. Some have suggested Axion create some sample PowerCubes and give them to prestigious customers to try free of charge. You just "plug" them in. Not hardly. You need to run the power into and out of the PowerCube and that means site specific power distribution systems, building permits and construction. The installation may need to be fixed inside a building with all the design and construction that entails versus sitting outside in a trailer.

    I'm not an engineer so I am not going to try and describe what all a customer has to do to utilize a PowerCube, but it is going to be a lot more than "just plugging it in." Axion Power Concentrator commentator, DRich, who is an engineer, said, "I don't know if this covers it, but even in grid applications, 'samples' aren't all that practical. Even though the batteries are the same, it is easy to assume that is where 'sameness' ends. Each business will have a different power use profile and thus the inverters/transformers will be different almost every time. The BMS and/or the software may need to be tailored to each power profile. There is considerable cost in engineering associated with those 'samples'."

    Anyone who wants to buy whatever size PowerCube they want for all its benefits will need the services of an electrical engineering firm, or an in-house electrical engineering staff, to integrate the PowerCube into their facility. Then there are all the software control issues that will need to be sorted out for the specific customer's power usage profile. It isn't rocket science, but it is involved and takes time and money to accomplish. There is no free lunch. For my money I would rather Axion Power Director of Marketing, Vani Dantam, just sell someone a PowerCube than probably spend the same amount of time and money trying to convince a prospect to take one for free.

    An Axion Power sales rep can't just waltz into a E-Bike or forklift or UPS manufacturer and say, "We've got a special on PbC's today, 3 for the price of 2." Think about how many people in a prospective customer have to agree that building anything using the PbC - a product they've never seen or used before, with nothing sitting around they can just drop it into and then turn it on - is worth their time, money and effort?

    I have a lot of major account sales experience. I've been Vice President of Sales for a hardware design, development and prototype engineering company. I've been Manager of Business Development for a nuclear engineering firm. Most of the time when you go through the door of a large company representing a new product or service it is just like pushing in the side of a sponge, the minute you leave everything pops back out just like it was before. Nothing has changed. If you are lucky maybe whomever you talked to talks to their boss, who then talks to his boss, etc etc.

    When they want you they call you. Until then, you are just whistling Dixie. Then after they call you it isn't a done deal. Everybody up the line has to confirm the decision. The numbers have to work, the details have to mesh, the timing has to be right - and on top of that they have to like and respect you and your organization. They have to be true believers.

    So when you are screaming for Axion Power CEO, Thomas Granville, to just sell or give away Powercubes or PbC's, you need to understand the complexity of doing so, and the time required to achieve an actual sale. Engineers are methodical, cautious professionals who have their careers at risk every time they draw a line or circle. They are not going to endorse anything until they are certain of the cost and benefits.

    About a year ago I made a bold statement that I would like to get on the phone and sell PbC's on straight commission. I said I might starve for a while but I would eventually find somebody who would buy some PbC's. John Petersen said "I wish it were so simple." He was right and I was over reaching a bit. I just didn't realize the complexity involved in selling the PbC because it is different from existing commodity lead acid batteries.

    I fully recognize the sales and marketing issues now, and if you haven't thought about it before perhaps this article will lead you to further contemplation on the subject. I still wouldn't mind selling the PbC, but I would pack a lot bigger back pack full of food before I picked up the phone. I would also plan on it taking one or more years of work before I might get a sale. Its just a tough business being green if you are a frog, or selling a PbC battery nobody has ever used before.

    ####
    Hearty gratitude to Bangwhiz on behalf of the Axion Power Concentrator series!

    ####

    During the past seven months the Axion Power Concentrators have organically grown into a vast trove of information all things Axion Power related, all things battery related, all things Energy Storage Sector related.

    Between now and 15 years from now, the global expenditure on energy in every way energy is created, delivered, conserved and used will be in the trillions of dollars.

    Derived from well over 12,000 Axion Power Concentrator comments comes to us a compendium archive created by APC commentator Bangwhiz. In short here is what it is, and does:

    The Axion Power Concentrator Web Sites is a complete easy-to-use online archive of all the information contained in the entire Axion Power Concentrator series from day one; including reports, articles, comments and posted links.

    It also contains a "New to Axion" section for people who are new to Axion and want a good starting point for their own due diligence. The site is updated daily as new links are posted to current comment threads. Links are posted by topic and can also be found using the "Search This Site" tab.

    The Comment Search Feature on the homepage is great for finding a comment you want to read again that would normally be lost in all the thousands of past comments. Simply search using a good key word or phrase, or any Google search term modifier, such as AND etc.

    New Feature: You can now search all past comments or just the past 3 months.

    Complimenting the Axion Power Concentrator Web Site is the Axion Power Wikispaces Web Site, "A repository of information about Axion Power International, Inc. and PbC® battery technology" created by APC commentator WDD. It is an excellent ongoing notebook aggregation of Axion Power facts.

    Want to ask, or have someone ask, Axion Power leadership a question during the forthcoming late March 2012 conference call? The following link led by Bangwhiz is where you can write your question, maybe have it discussed and expanded upon before the conference call.

    http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/667879-bangwhiz/279411-axion-power-2011-q4-march-conference-call-questions-list?source=kizur

    ####

    This is a troll free zone. All disruptive comments that violate Seeking Alpha's Terms of Use Agreement will be removed and permanently recorded in a separate Instablog.

    Be sure and either follow the Axion Power Host ID on Seeking Alpha or click the check-box labeled "track new comments on this article" just ahead of the comments section!

    Enjoy!

    Disclosure: I am long AXPW.

    Stocks: AXPW
Back To Axion Power Host's Instablog HomePage »

Instablogs are blogs which are instantly set up and networked within the Seeking Alpha community. Instablog posts are not selected, edited or screened by Seeking Alpha editors, in contrast to contributors' articles.

Comments (173)
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  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (523) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Last comment in APC 78 by 481086

     

    =======================
    Patience, judgment, fortitude, discernment, diligence...these are all aspects of maturity. And necessary qualities for successful investment in this kind of high-knowledge stock. So it should be perfectly obvious why it's so grossly unsuited to certain, uh, participants here. What amuses though is how they apparently just can't seem to find a more appropriate vessel for all their frothing passions...
    =======================
    21 Mar 2012, 04:13 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1285) | Send Message
     
    cc april 2nd.
    21 Mar 2012, 08:03 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    Axion's conference call April 2.

     

    http://yhoo.it/GGCEbU
    21 Mar 2012, 08:04 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    No reason given for delay. Hopefully delayed to give a customer time to announce product purchase the week before. Speculation of course.
    21 Mar 2012, 08:12 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    CC has to happen by the end of the month. However, since the end of the month occurs over the weekend, they can push it back to the first weekday of the following week. Happens with US taxes every 3 years. The 15th is on a Sunday, so you don't need to file until the 16th. Now why they decided to wait until the absolute last minute...no idea.
    21 Mar 2012, 12:37 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    As public companies get larger, their SEC filing dates get accelerated. That means the big boys all have to compete with each other to get their annual audits completed by mid-February or early March.

     

    Companies like Axion that are not required to file on an accelerated schedule can save a pile of money by scheduling their audits so that the work is completed after the accelerated filing crush is over. Since there's no extra credit for filing early and timely filing saves a lot of money, it's the only sensible thing to do.
    21 Mar 2012, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    thanks JP...I think that will help some anxiety here.
    21 Mar 2012, 01:22 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1960) | Send Message
     
    Lt: "thanks JP...I think that will help some anxiety here. "

     

    I have my doubts.
    21 Mar 2012, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Axion's management team has gotten very good at saving money wherever possible and audit fees are a big line item.

     

    Last year Axion paid audit fees of $105,000, up from $81,500 in 2010. Pushing that work forward into the auditor's compliance crunch time could easily add 25 to 50 percent to the cost with no real benefit.
    21 Mar 2012, 01:44 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1960) | Send Message
     
    I was just saying that nothing will help *irrational* anxiety...just being a snarky cynic. In truth it is very helpful to know for a lot of readers, including myself.
    21 Mar 2012, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Since I've lived with the SEC's accelerated filer rules for years it never dawned on me that many retail investors don't know that the rules change as companies get bigger.

     

    In general, a public company has to file its quarterly report within 45 days after the end of a quarter and its annual report within 90 days after its year end. The exceptions to these general rules follow:

     

    "Accelerated Filers" that have between $75 and $700 million of securities in the public float must file their quarterly reports within 40 days after the end of a quarter and their annual report within 75 days after year end.

     

    "Large Accelerated Filers" that have over $700 million of securities in the public float must file their quarterly reports within 40 days after the end of a quarter and their annual report within 60 days after year end.

     

    http://1.usa.gov/GEDEve
    21 Mar 2012, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    New Quercus 10k...looks like HTL is right on:

     

    http://bit.ly/GCkXK0
    21 Mar 2012, 08:27 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3220) | Send Message
     
    No surprises--their liquidation program continues in a gentle, predictable manner.
    21 Mar 2012, 10:27 AM Reply Like
  • Articula
    , contributor
    Comments (283) | Send Message
     
    Can't wait to hear this CC, should be interesting!
    21 Mar 2012, 09:45 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1694) | Send Message
     
    Sorry to change the subject, but I thought this would be of interest. Its regarding energy storage. Its still a mystery to utilities.
    http://bit.ly/GH5rvK

     

    There is mention of the high-cost of lithium ion, plus battery electronics. Also this intriguing quote:
    “We’ve looked at the business case for energy storage. There are value streams that could come into a particular energy storage project,” said Blazewicz. “The challenge that we face is that the technology is a square peg being shoved into a round hole. Fundamentally, it is difficult to capture all of the value.”
    21 Mar 2012, 09:45 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Poul, if that was you grabbing that early 100K (4x25K) congratulations!

     

    HardToLove
    21 Mar 2012, 09:55 AM Reply Like
  • Poul Brandt
    , contributor
    Comments (254) | Send Message
     
    HTL
    I raised the limit to 0,39 today, so probably. But I do not know before I get the nota from the bank tomorrow.
    21 Mar 2012, 11:08 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    You may now take a sip of your favorite beverage! It was you, I'm sure.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Mar 2012, 11:16 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (247) | Send Message
     
    After doing some chart analysis at the end of today's trading session - although very limited abilities at this - I'm thinking your timing was pretty good.
    21 Mar 2012, 05:09 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3220) | Send Message
     
    Back to the patent talk, if I may. Deamiter posted:

     

    "“In patent number 7006346 they have the following claim:
    "16. The EDL HEC according to claim 15, wherein the negative electrode comprises at least one carbonaceous material."

     

    Here's another interesting claim from a slightly earlier patent -- 6466429:
    "1. An electric double layer capacitor comprising: a polarizable electrode made of a carbon material…”

     

    So, I come back to the question of how much carbon is covered by Axion's patent? I.e., does every other lead-acid battery cathode with any amt of carbon violate their patent? If so, that means that they could and might want to defend against the 'carbon-creep' that's taking place already.

     

    But if not, then what %age is not allowed? 51%? 99%? Does a 99.99% (activated, etc.) carbon cathode work essentially as well as the PbC? If so, isn't it just a matter of time before someone else tries to make one?
    21 Mar 2012, 10:23 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3220) | Send Message
     
    Meant to include: add this to the CC question list?
    21 Mar 2012, 10:30 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    It sounds to me like it would make a good question.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Mar 2012, 10:31 AM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1962) | Send Message
     
    I believe it is an essential question; we know that this is the winning combination for the forseeable future. And that every other AGM battery maker is playing catch up.

     

    What is the exact question(s) ad who will present it (them)?
    21 Mar 2012, 11:03 AM Reply Like
  • Deamiter
    , contributor
    Comments (165) | Send Message
     
    It SHOULD be very tough to get an opinion on what is covered by patents by Axion executives. If they did give such an opinion in a public conference call, I think it could cause big problems with policing their patents. In a corporation, the ONLY people who should ever be allowed to give an opinion on ANY patents are patent attorneys. We can speculate all we want in our free time, but claim validity, coverage and infringement can only be decided in court and public statements could be used against Axion in that same court!

     

    If you do ask any questions about the specifics of what's covered, I'd expect you to get a standard, "we have a strong IP portfolio and believe our core technologies are well protected."

     

    My opinion (worth beans since I'm not a lawyer) is that this does cover any positive electrode with any amount of carbon in an otherwise standard lead-acid battery. Note that it's important to look at each claim in entirety as all other details matter. In patent # 6466429 the claim 1 restricts what is covered to a polarizable electrode made of carbon, but also containing lead, with a ground electrode made of lead dioxide and lead sulfate etc... Hypothetically, a company could use a ground electrode made of cheese and get away with a positive electrode containing carbon. However, for a battery that meets all other conditions within claim 1, it looks like it covers any amount of carbon. I've copied claim 1 below in case you care, but it's also easy to look these up on Google.com/patents.

     

    A note on patent claims -- each claim stands alone, although some often reference one or more others (i.e. everything in claim 1 with the following changes).

     

    I've been looking through some Axion patents lately. This is far (FAR) from an exhaustive list, but it includes some more recent patents that build a moat around the electrodes by covering details of manufacture and detailed compostion.

     

    7110242
    7119047
    7006346
    6706079
    6628504
    6466429

     

    Note that not all (maybe one?) of those patents were originally assigned to Axion Power. I confirmed that they are all assigned to Axion Power through the US patent office website. It also helps to have access to better searching capabilities than is available at Google patents, but honestly, I'm not sure I have tens of hours to spend understanding lead acid IP and how Axion's patents fit. It's enough for me to know they look like they claim what reps say they claim!

     

    "1. An electric double layer capacitor comprising: a polarizable electrode made of a carbon material, a non-polarizable electrode including lead dioxide and lead sulfate, a separator between the polarizable electrode and the non-polarizable electrode, and an aqueous solution electrolyte containing sulfuric acid,

     

    wherein the mass ratio of the lead sulfate to the lead dioxide ranges from about 0.1 to 99% to about 99 to 0.1%, and
    wherein the polarizable electrode also contains lead."
    21 Mar 2012, 05:27 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1962) | Send Message
     
    thanks

     

    G
    21 Mar 2012, 09:28 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3220) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Deamiter.

     

    "...and wherein the polarizable electrode also contains lead."

     

    Me no lawyer, but me can say "infringe." As in, "all these lead + carbon electrodes infringe on Axion's patent."

     

    Wow. If that's true, then Axion may have a lot more value than I thought. You wanna sell a lead-acid battery (in the US, anyway) that contains ANY carbon, you gotta go thru Axion (although maybe a battery plus external carbon capacitor is ok). Would be an excellent due dilly move to get a better feel for this issue, like a patent attorney's opinion. Especially one with a good biz sense, who could say something like, if it was his/her opinion, "As a point of law, they have all the power, BUT practically speaking, to enforce would mean $x over y years with z% chance of enforcement."

     

    Anybody here have a good feel for this? Maybe I'm way the heck off base, but as I look closer at the patent issue, there may be way more value here than I realized.
    21 Mar 2012, 10:00 PM Reply Like
  • Deamiter
    , contributor
    Comments (165) | Send Message
     
    Be VERY careful about that kind of conclusion. First off, allowed claims do not prevent others from copying the claim it only allows the patent holder to sue for damages in the case of infringement. Until it's been litigated, even an "obvious" case is not certain. Further, any claim could be modified or thrown out in future litigation if it is found that the claim was granted in error.

     

    Second, every word in every claim defines the boundaries of the claim. I am not an expert in lead-acid batteries, nor have I closely studied patent literature in this area. There may be (and probably are) thousands of different ways to run a lead-acid battery that are not protected under these claims. With any luck, most or all of those methods are much more expensive or much less useful, but it's very dangerous for a non-expert to read precisely-worded claims and make conclusions about the value of those claims!

     

    For example, the claim I quoted specifically cites a ground electrode made of lead dioxide and lead sulfate. I'm pretty sure these are the only materials useful in a lead-acid ground electrode, but I'm far from sure. Are you sure -- sure enough to claim that this covers ALL lead-acid batteries? Further, there's a reason the ground electrode was mentioned in this claim. That reason could be that mentioning it effectively covers all modern lead-acid batteries, but it's also possible that it's worded that way to EXCLUDE certain ground electrodes for which carbon-based positive electrodes have already been designed and published.

     

    That's just an example -- every detail mentioned in every claim similarly describes boundaries around what is protected.

     

    In short, this is a massive rabbit hole. To draw a valid conclusion you must become an expert in patent law, the construction of lead-acid and related batteries, and have read all or most patents and publications in the field carefully for these nuances. The vastly simpler way to come to a valid conclusion is to trust the opinion of experts!

     

    Now note that a patent is valid only in the country in which it was granted. I haven't looked at where these patents were filed, but usually a large international company will try to cover 75% of the manufacturing and/or customer bases. Where this was filed long before it was assigned to Axion Power matters.

     

    I know enough to read these patents and see that they could very possibly protect the PbC construction as Tom and others in the company have claimed. I can't begin to give a legal or expert opinion and beyond understanding that a (presumably) well-considered patent portfolio exists, I'd be hesitant to base investments on my crude understanding of the value of these patents!
    22 Mar 2012, 08:01 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Mention of Axion Power in Monster Penny Stocks:

     

    http://bit.ly/GDTDMe

     

    Plus, according to pennystockcircle.com, AXPW has come onto their radar; watching "very intently."

     

    http://bit.ly/GIPksZ
    21 Mar 2012, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the link to Monster Penny Stocks...

     

    Now my mind is hearing the ads for the Monster Trucks show with stock names...

     

    (deep booming voice)
    "Come on down to Thomas Jefferson Jingle Heimer Schmidt arena for AXION... AXION... AXION POWER"

     

    (then in squeaky voice)
    "... and funny trolls, funny trolls, funny trolls..."
    21 Mar 2012, 12:01 PM Reply Like
  • WDD
    , contributor
    Comments (60) | Send Message
     
    Per Monster Penny Stocks: "...neuro-scientific lead-acid-carbon energy storage..." ?!?

     

    Perhaps a Bluetooth brain-implant to wirelessly interface with the battery management system?
    21 Mar 2012, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2268) | Send Message
     
    >WDD

     

    Or the Skynet overlord is invading via our car batteries. Maybe it really will take over the world!

     

    Let us hope the PbC is immune to Skynet infiltration!
    21 Mar 2012, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Sheesh! From another penny stock advisor, stockmarketcats.com

     

    "AXPW has a descending triangle pattern. There is a very good chance AXPW will break out of this pattern and make a hellious move.

     

    "AXPW has a low float. Any buying pressure is going to send it on its merry way."

     

    http://bit.ly/GDve8I
    21 Mar 2012, 12:07 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    Maya...This one is over a year old...it's already broke out ! LOL
    21 Mar 2012, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    I humbly submit they are quite late to the party.

     

    If they're talking short-term patterns, that's over. If they're talking medium-term ... well I think they just saw the CC announcement coming and took another look.

     

    And they ignore (or miss?) the triangle formation.

     

    But all that changes now that the CC has been announced. It's very likely (but in no way certain) that a pattern (that is trading, not chart) change occurs and a new chart pattern then follows.

     

    But I'm off to read them - I can always learn.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove

     

    P.S. If widely read, they may have a self-fulfilling prophecy as momo folks jump on board.
    21 Mar 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    LT: Thanks. But though the date is over a year old, the charts are current, including the "descending triangle." Which makes me believe that the above comment from stockmarketcats is also current.

     

    (Please see top chart on the right side of the page with the current descending triangle formation indicated with green lines.)
    21 Mar 2012, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Upon further review, some of the charts are current, others are not. After maximizing, I see that the descending triangle chart is out of date.
    21 Mar 2012, 12:48 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3220) | Send Message
     
    Hey, who knows for sure, and the day's not even over, but today's a bit different--no 100-share paints, bid over 40 cents. Maybe it's the momo people plus Poul's 100k. Or maybe it's the steady sellers being done in the 30's.
    21 Mar 2012, 01:55 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Yep. And now trades going at $0.41.

     

    I bet it's momo. Remember that Mercy posted some time back about those folks liking $0.39 as an entry. But from my watching, I didn't see them enter (scared by the lack of volume ATM?).

     

    But if these promo-rags are talking about it now, they know they may have a good risk/reward profile for short-term play.

     

    What's going to happen when the Quercus hares hit the market-maker books after the conversion takes place?

     

    Will we see the market-maker release them at a nice profit into the market? Or will they let the DTCC net them out?

     

    I don't know, but I'll be watching buy:sell and daily short sales to see if I can make an educated guess.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Mar 2012, 02:01 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I think the DTC nets out the MM shorts automatically as the shares clear transfer.
    21 Mar 2012, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1960) | Send Message
     
    Momo traders have nothing to do with the supply. There was a steady supply around .39 for the past week or more. It really is not buyers taking control of the stock movement right now it is that the supply, at that price, is washed up...at least for now.

     

    On another note: the current 18,240 ask at .417 has been there for about two weeks, so it was stuck in and just left there, except it was originally a 25k block that got pecked at and left as we moved lower two weeks ago.
    21 Mar 2012, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Thanks. That only leaves MM covering buys before netting to leave any shares for the MM to feed to market and I don't see evidence of it recently.

     

    That should alleviate any selling pressure from MM clearing out incoming as they hit.

     

    On another topic, since the CC and reporting date is announced, safe bet that we won't have any big announcements or PR prior? That's what I'm thinking.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Mar 2012, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    HTL: Exactly my thinking earlier this morning following the CC announcement was to surf around and see what the pumper rags were touting.

     

    Today's price action, in fact all sessions price action since March 6, have indicated the March 6 low will hold.

     

    Only things missing are volume, and news. Given JP's research of how March works, volume-wise, I think we'll see volume increase as April 2 nears. If (wishful divining) we get something juicy to chew on April 2nd, we may see a serious pop.
    21 Mar 2012, 02:26 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Good thought. But before Quercus started this last feed-in, after flippers from the share issue dried up, we had no supply and price didn't rise.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Mar 2012, 02:30 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    I think juicy is likely as everything that was x months or years away before are closer now.

     

    As JP has pointed out (please correct me if I'm wrong), if any of those things were off the table, it would likely be major and we would have heard something.

     

    So I think all the irons are still in the fire and closer than before.

     

    I would love to hear some stuff relating to PJM/Vreidity test results and Rosewater progress as well. Has enough time passed to expect such or am I being impatient?

     

    I suspect we might detect an increase in level of enthusiasm from TG & Co.

     

    All speculating, of course,
    HardToLove
    21 Mar 2012, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Hard: It's a no-brainer that TG will give an update of how the PowerCube is doing with regard to Viridity Energy and PJM. Back in November, only 100kws, or only one-fifth of the PowerCube, was being used. Most certainly by now, the full half megawatt has been tested. I would like to know what monies the PowerCube have generated, and what TG's estimate of the ROI is for the PowerCube.

     

    In a couple of days, a third of a year will have passed since the ribbon cutting ceremony.

     

    As for all the irons are still in the fire...I'm not getting my hopes up for this quarter being the quarter we learn of larger sized POs arriving in New Castle.

     

    I hope I'm wrong.
    21 Mar 2012, 02:48 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    "I would like to know what monies the PowerCube have generated, and what TG's estimate of the ROI is for the PowerCube".

     

    I've got part of that already in the questions blog, IIRC.

     

    For *me*, being it's our first test in that market, I'm probably giving it more weight in my mind than anything else ATM.

     

    xxx <-- fingers crossed.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Mar 2012, 02:56 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1962) | Send Message
     
    Ahh, the run-up before the CC and due to pumping.

     

    If it pops, many will kick themselves for not buying more in the 39-42 cent range.

     

    Back to an older subject:
    1) Do the Axionistas have a series of questions we would like answered? and
    2) Who will be responsible for asking the questions during the CC.

     

    I'm willing to accumulate the questions, but I'd like someone else to ask. I tend to keep asking the same question till it's answered.

     

    Question:
    How broad is the patent mote? That is, as other battery companies begin to combine carbon with their battery chemistry, how far can they go without impinging of our patents?
    21 Mar 2012, 03:16 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    BTW, info about that, and other stuff, is included in the "header" for the APC.

     

    If we do it like last time, Bang will coordinate making sure the questions get prioritized and covered by participants.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Mar 2012, 03:23 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Yep. I'll try to organize them and maybe the list could make the grade as an APC header near the CC or a separate instabog.
    21 Mar 2012, 04:10 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1962) | Send Message
     
    Thanks,

     

    G
    21 Mar 2012, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I don't understand any level of anxiety for Axion shareholders at this point unless they are overweight like I am and unable to close their position without a large loss. Although I am overweight I am not anxious about it. Axion was sorting out the Geh2 line until sometime in November. TG had to concentrate on the capital raise but sure he had money coming he hired Vani in late January. I'm sure Vani is busy grabbing a hold of the sales reins right now and deciding where to commit his time and effort.

     

    If Axion were a normal start-up without a multi-year long R&D period the company would only be a few months old. Fortunately the company got the attention of a lot of tier one companies during the R&D and industrial engineering process that are still actively considering the PbC now that Axion is in a true sales mode.

     

    Axion's own stated sales goal is to sell enough PbC's to use all of their capacity in New Castle first, then move on to selling PbC electrodes to other battery manufacturers. Axion has about a year's money or more in the bank. If holding the stock makes you nervous either sell it or take some Zolof. There is no real risk of the company failing for quite a while and you need to allow the sales process time to bear fruit.

     

    I will acknowledge that holding the stock would try the patience of Job, but microcap stocks are not investment grade stocks. Having said that I'm all-in on Axion. Why? I expected a quick double on the DOE contract award which missed. However, I see no reason to panic or be worried long-term. We know NS plans to do an over-the road and switcher locomotive this year. If their plans hold together we know that it will have had the benefit of intensive pre-deployment R&D which bodes well for a successful result. That alone is reason enough to hold the stock.

     

    Additionally some authority (Sandia?) stated the PbC offered the lowest cost of ownership for grid storage. That is also a good enough reason to hold the stock. BMW already blew away the carbon additive batteries in its test program. While I don't doubt the auto companies will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the PbC battery (they fought air bags for years) the advantages of the PbC are clearly apparent - just like the advantages of air bags were known for so many years.

     

    I would like to see some success by the third quarter 2012, otherwise I may have to increase the strength of my meds. I don't expect any blockbuster deals by then, but I do want to see enough sales traction to be clearly encouraged. Nothing to do now but ask questions during the conference calls, stir the tea leaves and hope for the best. Worrying is a waste of time and effort.

     

    I failed to understand all the ruckus about the conference call date also. The CC is a tradeable event and everyone needs to get notice at the same time like they did in the press release today. They aren't going to tell just one person when the conference call is scheduled just because they call up on the telephone.
    21 Mar 2012, 03:59 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (707) | Send Message
     
    BANG

     

    Overweight and not worried?? Willing to gamble past the 3 rd quarter for business while the money dries up??

     

    Doesn't sound like a winning proposition to me...After all the hype today the stock moves a penny....
    21 Mar 2012, 04:17 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Before I got into the market I played tournament poker for extra income. I got pretty good at it until the government stuck its long nose into my private business. I am used to high risk win lose or draw. Sure I could lose 50%-60% of my investment, but in poker you win it all or lose it all - no refunds.

     

    The money won't dry up either. Axion still has a lot of authorized shares it could issue. With some sales traction this year they could easily raise more capital and at better prices. You seem just to impatient for a stock like Axion IMHO. I frankly don't care if you complain about only a penny up. As for hype I only ask what hype? Axion certainly hasn't hyped the stock. As for APC member's hype this is a discussion thread, not an SEC document or Axion press release.

     

    Axion has plenty more cards to come before the hand is over. I like the possibilities so I'm not folding at this point. If nothing has popped by the 3rd quarter I'll decide what to do with my hand then. In the meantime I'm enjoying the game. In tournament poker one skill you absolutely must have is patience. Same with Axion.

     

    I also think DRich was mis-understood when he said he didn't "expect" to make money on Axion. He clearly "hopes" to make money, but you can't EXPECT a speculative penny stock like Axion to make money versus a bond or dividend stock where you clearly EXPECT to make money. All you have with a R&D stage penny stock is hope unless you are trying to trade it. It is a terrible trading stock also - it just isn't liquid enough to buy as a trading stock.
    21 Mar 2012, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/GE6ayp
    21 Mar 2012, 04:30 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Pretty funny Jon. Your sense of humor is good for me. I care for my mother 24/7 except 8 hours a week when I get out for a few hours. I need all the laughs I can get. Thanks.
    21 Mar 2012, 04:43 PM Reply Like
  • Nicholas Chen
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    Same here... used to play poker online, though now I can't play at all thanks to the grubmint since I refuse to sit all day at a casino.

     

    I look at AXPW the same way as you. The minor swings don't bother me as long as the overall story is moving in the right direction... we'll get our pop sooner or later.

     

    Luckily I have another stock that I'm also waiting for news and a pop. When it pops then I'll pour the proceeds into AXPW, so you all will get a boost from me :)
    21 Mar 2012, 07:19 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Jon,

     

    As you post and publish here, I believe I am borrowing yours.

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 03:14 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    A one cent change is a nice chunk of change for some shareholders.
    22 Mar 2012, 05:49 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    2.5% - I'll take it! now if we could do that just do that once a week...
    22 Mar 2012, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I'd prefer once a day, but then I can be a greedy cuss at times.
    22 Mar 2012, 11:38 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    I am good with that daily thing...
    22 Mar 2012, 12:07 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3220) | Send Message
     
    I'm still expecting progress, but no big orders yet. Maybe in Q2 or Q3.
    21 Mar 2012, 04:18 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I'm with you Mister Investor. It could take Vani up to a year to pull a fat rabbit out of a hat. Unless he's lucky and a deal was all but done when he came onboard, it will probably take at least six months, but probably longer. If I were in his shoes I would have a goal of killing an elephant within a year. I've been in similar situations as Vani and succeeded, but it took a year.
    21 Mar 2012, 04:49 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3220) | Send Message
     
    Bang,

     

    Yep. In the meantime, announcements of progress, collaborations, dual presentations, expressed interest, etc. would be a good sign, as would some small orders.
    21 Mar 2012, 05:26 PM Reply Like
  • Poul Brandt
    , contributor
    Comments (254) | Send Message
     
    As far as I remember someone here made a partial transcription of the Q3 CC. Does anyone have a link to that?
    21 Mar 2012, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Poul,

     

    I don't have it, but this link copied from the "header" at the top of this page will take you to BangWhiz's web site where he has a very powerful search facility.

     

    http://sg.sg/AnK0Ii

     

    Sorry I can't help more ATM

     

    HardToLove
    21 Mar 2012, 04:59 PM Reply Like
  • Poul Brandt
    , contributor
    Comments (254) | Send Message
     
    Thank you. I will make a search.
    21 Mar 2012, 05:31 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    Poul, a while back I transcribed a portion that concerned BMW:

     

    ----------------------...

     

    To All: I just finished transcribing the BMW relevant portion of the 15 November 2011 CC. I listened to the mp3 several times. Maya, I can only assume that TG repeated the "fast-track" verbiage at the PJM/Veridity event, in addition to his using that same description in the CC earlier that month.. to my mind, that only reinforces the idea that their relationship is very much ongoing. What follows is my best verbatim transcription of the question and answer from the CC:

     

    Question from Paul Domasi(?) of Dakota(?) Takoda(?) Inc:
    "Yah, hi my name is Paul Domasi, thanks for taking my call. I
    wanted to know if you're still working with BMW in the Start-Stop
    program. I know you were doing testing with them.. is that still
    ongoing?"

     

    TG: "That certainly is. We have been doing testing with them since July of 2009. That continues, the working relationship with them continues. We have We we have regularly scheduled calls with them a few times a month, every month. To report progress. They are doing testing of our product to confirm the things that we have found here. And uh, and that testing has proceeded beyond bench-testing, I can't really get into a whole lot more detail about that, but we certainly are testing with them.. and with other automotive OEMs. They are the longest, some 2 and a quarter years but some other large OEMs we have been also involved with for some time.. and actually I'm glad you asked that question because it gives me an opportunity to talk about the third quarter.. in the third quarter we also met with some newer OEMs that have application or will have application to the stop-start market... so we're growing that stable."

     

    Paul Domasi: "Is there a time-frame with BMW that you had scheduled? Is it beyond it? It seems like it's a long time...2 and a half years... "

     

    TG: "Automotive companies, railroads, utilities, unfortunately the three people that we deal with are among the slowest movers in the world I think. Uhm, they are, they had told us that we're on the fast track if you can believe that, compared to the testing of, of other new technologies that they look to employ and other just technology platforms that they look to employ. They're very conservative, uhm but once they, they make a decision they move forward, according to what they're telling us, they move forward relatively quickly.

     

    Paul Domasi: "All right, thanks very much"

     

    TG: "Sure."
    21 Mar 2012, 09:50 PM Reply Like
  • Poul Brandt
    , contributor
    Comments (254) | Send Message
     
    48
    Thats the one. Thank you.
    22 Mar 2012, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    48: Yes, TG did mention BMW during my New Castle visit Nov. 28, and in much the same way he stated in your above transcription, including that I know I heard him say, "...fast tracking." That same day, he also talked about interactions with other OEMs, domestic and in Europe.

     

    13 days later, TG shocked all of us with the Viridity Energy/PJM/PowerCube ribbon cutting ceremony.
    21 Mar 2012, 10:01 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (3555) | Send Message
     
    Don't know if this was already posted. Reuters article about EVs, JP hit the nail again. http://reut.rs/GE0BfL
    22 Mar 2012, 01:11 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3220) | Send Message
     
    Great quote: "I like to say it's the first law of thermodynamics versus the first law of Disney."

     

    aka, The Goofy Syndrome
    22 Mar 2012, 10:47 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Regarding above syndrome...

     

    Dirty joke about Mickey and Minnie Mouse getting a divorce
    http://bit.ly/GLZqyU
    22 Mar 2012, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    To warm the cockles of JP's heart,
    This video is a darn good start,
    Short and sweet and to the point,
    He'll say it's better than smokin' a joint!

     

    http://bit.ly/GGoNAi#eyJ2aWQiOiIzMDAwMDc5O...

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 04:46 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Yes, that's good HTL, but there needs to be a counter-song to this annoying riff that elementary and junior high kids love to re-sing and have been indoctrinated with the last few years since They Might Be Giants came out with their Here Comes Science album

     

    irritating Electric Car song: http://bit.ly/GKBPP6

     

    amusing album otherwise: http://amzn.to/GOWHjY

     

    to counter the irritating Electric Car song, the best song on the album by far is "Why Does The Sun Shine?" - http://bit.ly/GKBPP7
    22 Mar 2012, 05:09 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Since the doobage always put me to sleep, the video is far better.
    22 Mar 2012, 07:19 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Watching that first video, my first though was "How much government influence went to its production?". This sort of indoctrination is unforgivable.

     

    My second thought is we should all immediately start home-schooling our children and preview *everything* they are permitted to watch.

     

    Solves unemployment, "uneducation" (maybe?) in one move.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 06:06 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    I think, as far as the Electric Car song goes, this is a Hanlon's Razor case -
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

     

    Its just a hippy dippy band that made an album to promote science without having a very science-y background.

     

    As for indoctrination in education... well... that's kind of what its supposed to do... indoctrinate citizens. Hence, all the folklore and propaganda in history and social studies...

     

    ...wouldn't worry too much about science though... most schools are cutting back on science programs...

     

    ... but lets stay on the Axion topic...
    22 Mar 2012, 06:21 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    It's reminiscent of Joe Camel, but for a politically correct cause which makes it OK I guess.
    22 Mar 2012, 07:23 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Note to Tony and MAP, you precious metal fiends, your services are needed on my article,

     

    Evaluating Risk: Why I Sleep Better With 50% Of My Money In Precious Metals http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    At least the above article should be closer to a subject you may have some knowledge about.
    22 Mar 2012, 09:21 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    I think, as far as the Electric Car song goes, this is a Hanlon's Razor case - "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

     

    Sheesh! What use is a tin-foil hat if I buy into that?! ...

     

    I think it's a conspiracy to discredit those of us who know the *real* truth!

     

    Oh! ...

     

    The PbC is *the* solution! :-))

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 06:41 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Rosewater has updated the string equalization graphs to show comparable time periods for both AGM and the PbC.

     

    http://bit.ly/GFh7MZ
    22 Mar 2012, 07:27 AM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for posting. This is progress, good to see, but if I were a potential customer, I'd like to understand what the PbC cost premium is buying me over and above the C paste additive varieties that appear to be the new AGM benchmark against which PbC will truly have to compete.
    22 Mar 2012, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    The PbC is King when it's in a string...
    22 Mar 2012, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    It's tough for Axion to benchmark the PbC against products that don't exist. And carbon paste additive lead acid batteries are not available for sale.

     

    But the PbC is available for sale and I find it telling that those experimenting with carbon past additives have avoided benchmarking themselves against the PbC.

     

    D
    22 Mar 2012, 12:44 PM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    D.Mc,
    True, but it is PbC that needs to prove itself against the incumbents, not the reverse. The JCIs/Exides/East Pens ARE the market and will remain so. It is Axion that need to be proactive, the burden of proof falls on them.
    22 Mar 2012, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    anthlj, I hear what you're saying but how 'proactive' can they be? I wouldn't expect them to invent their own carbon paste additives so that they can test them and show how inferior they are to the PbC.

     

    What frustrates me a little is that the DOE funded that comparison that East Penn did between various forms of carbon paste and yet they didn't compare to the PbC - why not?

     

    If you're looking for a better battery then shouldn't you be comparing to the best commercially available existing products?

     

    D
    22 Mar 2012, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    Fully agree, but who said the game would be played fair. There are, and will continue to be, powerful vested interests at work here that are not aligned with our own.
    22 Mar 2012, 02:01 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The BMW-Axion presentation at ELBC 2010 did in fact benchmark the PbC against two types of carbon paste additive AGM batteries.

     

    The paste batteries performed better than AGM, but nowhere near PbC standards.

     

    http://bit.ly/oIU19K
    22 Mar 2012, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    You can't get better proof than the BMW-Axion presentation at ELBC 2010 that benchmarked the PbC against AGM and two advanced AGM batteries with carbon paste additives.

     

    http://bit.ly/oIU19K

     

    This is not just Axion talking. BMW duplicated the work and signed off on the presentation.
    22 Mar 2012, 02:48 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    If the DOE were in a poker game all their electric vehicle chips would be considered "dead money".
    22 Mar 2012, 03:52 PM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for that, I had forgotten that significant detail from the BMW presentation. But I do continue to believe that it behooves to Axion to benchmark PbC against best in class on a forward basis.

     

    One question:
    Why on earth were ALABC advocating at last September's Asian Battery Meeting that 'Some some carbons and their combinations in amounts up to 1-2% can improve the batteries so much that they fully match to the requirements in micro and mild HEV'?
    Slide 9 of 30

     

    conferenceworks.net.au...

     

    Might this to be interpreted as a clumsy LA industry defence against the threat of lithium/capacitors in SS, as opposed to a slight against PbC?
    22 Mar 2012, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    /14abc/downloads/1-BOR... IS_MONAHOV_ALABC.pdf

     

    (remainder of url)
    22 Mar 2012, 05:55 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    I have a lot of questions for ALABC! the top question is why are we (AXPW) NOT one of the demonstration batteries (slide 25)? We (AXPW) should be the center of attention with ALABC and they should be promoting us and we should have made our way into the trunk of the LC Super Hybrid. Yet we appear on one slide in blue which shares a red highlight with "Add CARBON POWDER to the NAM" (slide 8)..

     

    Here's the kicker! look at slide 28. The sweet spot that they have highlighted is the higher voltage (12-48) micro-hybrid and we ARE the BEST of the BEST for that slot and we are not in the game. What the heck is going on there? (the spark for my underestimating comment/rant). I am sure our folks are on this and with luck when the debut comes for the 12-48 LC Super Hybrid there will be PbC in the trunk!

     

    The ALABC link:
    http://bit.ly/GEOMc0

     

    BTW. Anyone see the slide (JP's link) of the batteries in the trunk of the LC Super Hybrid? I love it when you actually get to see the product right there in the picture. Two batteries (assumed to be Exide Spiral w/Carbon) connected in parallel (12v). But they boogered the connection. How long will those two batteries stay balanced? never again is the answer. The negative should terminate on one battery and the positive should terminate on the other so the power is drawn and stored equally to both batteries. They have been drifting apart since day 1.

     

    Also, take a good look at the first bullet and the information in parentheses of the Battery Considerations slide. It says "(48V to follow based on new standard proposed by German auto industry also supported by French car makers)". It is my hope that AXPW will see an order for a 12v BMW but my gut feeling say's it will make its entrance in the 12-48v world (plan for the worst and hope for the best).

     

    JP's link:
    http://bit.ly/xSrwbM
    22 Mar 2012, 08:35 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    Tim, I'm having a hard time seeing the imbalance problem you describe. Are you assuming there will be some non-trivial voltage drop across the short jumpers?
    22 Mar 2012, 09:07 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    86, the battery on the right is paralleled with the one on the left instead of with the system. If you were to draw 300 amps from the bank, would each battery contribute equally? They would if you switch the black (-) connectors. As it is, more would be drawn from the battery on the left because there is less resistance. Is the resistance small? Yes, does it make a difference? Also yes. With each cycle these two batteries drift apart. What will things look like after 500 cycles? or even 100?

     

    Ask the purchasing agent at an off grid solar installer what the first question he asks the supplier (aside from price) when purchasing a bank of batteries. It is usually about the “born on” date. You want it to be current and you want it to be the same for the whole bank. Ideally, you want to buy from the same pallet that shipped from the factory so that you get batteries as close to the same age as possible. You want to reduce the number of connections and you want to pull equally across the whole bank.

     

    The bank in a class 8 truck is the same. Most class 8 trucks have 4 batteries. Most operators know that when you lose one battery, you have to re-purchase all four. A friend’s bank was wired to pull from one side with one battery paralleled with the one to its left like the one in the slide only there were four. He was going through a bank in less than a year. I did the same switch and he bought 4 of the same brand and he is still on the same bank and it’s been two years.

     

    The PbC is King when it's in a string...
    22 Mar 2012, 11:45 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The ALABC is a lead-acid battery industry association. Their focus is technologies that all of their members can use without getting into the complexity of patent licenses. Carbon paste additives are an idea that everybody in the industry can use without IP issues or major capital spending. The ALABC knows the PbC technology well and would like Axion to be more active in its programs, but it realizes that Axion has carved out the top end of the market and needs to follow its own path. After extensive conversations with top ALABC people, I have a clear sense that the lack of Axion emphasis is more an Axion decision than an ALABC decision.
    23 Mar 2012, 01:02 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Axion is a member of the ALABC and the PbC is held in high regard by them, but both sides understand that Axion has to follow its own path. In Geneva I was told that Axion chose to pass on the first round LC Super-hybrid. My sense clear from the conversation is that Axion had enough on its plate already with the automakers and railroads and didn't have the staff time to devote to a concept car. Sometimes companies have to pick their battles to avoid spreading themselves too thin. The twin Exide orbital batteries with carbon paste additives were the ALABC's Plan B.

     

    Axion is not being slighted by the ALABC. It took the top center position on Slide 8 with a "perfect cycleability" rating where the Ultrabattery was rated "superior" and additives were rated "excellent." The ALABC would like to have more active participation from Axion, but every trade association involvement carries a cost and Axion has to pick and choose where it spends its money.
    23 Mar 2012, 01:27 AM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the additional information. Begs the question, do you need perfect when you already have excellent? I suppose only the end users can answer that one. Time will tell.
    23 Mar 2012, 02:29 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1960) | Send Message
     
    Anthlj,
    My guess is, it depends if you want to make a BMW or a Geo Prism.
    -------------------------
    I probably shouldn't be so cheeky. For certain generic applications excellent will be good enough, other more demanding applications is going to take perfection. The PbC does not have to be the *only* useful battery in the S/S market. It can share the prize...a little.
    23 Mar 2012, 07:39 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    Love your new catch-phrase, Tim. You need to sign all your comments that way: 'The PbC is King when it's in a string'.

     

    You should sign your correspondence that way, come to think of it. Including Christmas cards.

     

    D
    23 Mar 2012, 07:54 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I've never believed in silver bullet battery solutions and remain convinced that different manufacturers will choose different solutions that meet their cost and performance requirements. There will always be those who settle for second or third best.

     

    The micro-hybrid market is expected to grow to 40 million units a year by 2017. If you figure the marginal revenue to Axion for a PbC electrode set is on the order of $100 per battery, each 1% market penetration represents $40 million in potential revenue to Axion. At that rate, even a 5% or 10% market share would have me smiling. A market share of 20% or more results in numbers that are too big for my feeble mind to seriously contemplate.
    23 Mar 2012, 08:15 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    Tim, I could see your slogan in an advertisement to get customers to demand the best battery in their cars.
    23 Mar 2012, 08:18 AM Reply Like
  • Mercy Jimenez
    , contributor
    Comments (2705) | Send Message
     
    Tim, agree with McHattie. Your tag line is great. Just be sure to start adding "SM" after it to give it service mark protection -- before competitors get any bright ideas ...
    23 Mar 2012, 08:19 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    86, Chris explains it much better than I do...

     

    http://bit.ly/GK9jeF
    23 Mar 2012, 08:31 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    On the negative side, I guess this means that share price would increase so I wouldn't be able to keep buying - probably would have to take extended visit to Betty Ford Center to treat addiction.
    23 Mar 2012, 08:38 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    JP. I am glad to hear we were given the opportunity. Not so glad that we couldn't spare the resources at the time. I wasn't there and won't second guess our leadership. We move on from here...
    23 Mar 2012, 08:50 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    jakurtz, how about a hot little VW <smile>...
    23 Mar 2012, 08:51 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    ADD populace, we'd need to shorten it, include fewer syllables, etc.

     

    Maybe "PbC: King in a string" or "The string king, PbC by Axion" (SM).

     

    HardToLove
    23 Mar 2012, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    John,
    Thanks for that info.
    metroneanderthal
    23 Mar 2012, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    Tim, excellent link and thanks. At ~300 amps draw I can certainly see the issues. As remarked earlier, the PbC's inherent passive-equalization characteristic is truly a beautiful thing, one likely to prove to be quite a huge advantage in all the many string applications...
    23 Mar 2012, 10:45 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    Suggested add for the back of the shirt: The PbC: King when it's in a string---there are no weakest links! ;)
    23 Mar 2012, 10:52 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    86 (can I call you Max) ->"Tim, excellent link and thanks."

     

    Yes, should have posted that first instead of blabbing on about it from memory...
    23 Mar 2012, 07:33 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    HA! you guys are too funny!

     

    Had another one straight from marketing...

     

    Need a string? go with the King - PbC (SM)

     

    All of them are pretty creative but I do like short and to the point. I think my favorite is HTL's...

     

    PbC: King in a string (SM)

     

    Thanks for the fun folks...
    23 Mar 2012, 07:40 PM Reply Like
  • WDD
    , contributor
    Comments (60) | Send Message
     
    Tim-
    Very helpful resource. You may have just helped me solve a problem with the house battery bank in the sailboat. Thanks!
    DD.
    23 Mar 2012, 08:42 PM Reply Like
  • WDD
    , contributor
    Comments (60) | Send Message
     
    Slide 17: "change of mind" performance. ??

     

    Does this refer to coming off of the accelerator, and then stomping on it again?
    23 Mar 2012, 08:46 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    DD. Great! the web site was a blessing and used extensiveness as we designed and built our system...
    23 Mar 2012, 09:19 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Yep!
    24 Mar 2012, 01:56 AM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    One-third of AGM lead-acid battery (VRLA) string replaced in first 100 days of testing.
    22 Mar 2012, 07:47 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    With all this information out ... I just don't understand the slow adoption to PbC other than price is higher. But ours works, the others do not.
    22 Mar 2012, 08:09 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    I think JP's take is why: our potential customers move at glacial paces, for good reason.

     

    The good part comes once they do move though, because there is some size to them and the industries they represent.

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 08:21 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1285) | Send Message
     
    just do the math here. cost to replace batteries + initial batteries versus cost of PbC system
    22 Mar 2012, 08:53 AM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2268) | Send Message
     
    >tragicslip

     

    It depends on who is doing the math. OEM's will choose cheaper initial cost when they can get away with it, as they have been doing already for SS systems that become non-functional within 120 days.

     

    Owners will choose life-cycle cost when given the facts. If Axion can come up with an effective aftermarket product, owners would gravitate toward it. But that is far down the road for us at the moment.

     

    As JP has pointed out, ultimately regulatory requirements may drive the OEM's to revise the math they have been doing.
    22 Mar 2012, 12:56 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Regulatory changes are certain, but not until a better alternative is available at relevant scale. In the meantime, we'll have to rely on companies like BMW including driver awareness systems like ECO PRO mode that draw attention to when and how well the mechanical systems are working.
    22 Mar 2012, 02:49 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (791) | Send Message
     
    Surely that was the reason for the rejection LA-AGM by NS.
    22 Mar 2012, 08:24 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    and the fact that they melted down in the first day if I am correct.
    22 Mar 2012, 09:09 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    It wasn't a first day problem, but the problem was apparent within a couple weeks. The chronology we know for sure was that the rollout ceremony was September 28, 2009 and the NS 999 performed well during it's first day of testing. By the time they printed the November-December issue of their employee magazine, however, they were looking for a new battery system.

     

    http://bit.ly/wrFRnF
    22 Mar 2012, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4788) | Send Message
     
    JP > "The chronology we know for sure was that the rollout ceremony was September 28, 2009 and the NS 999 performed well during it's first day of testing."

     

    From the document referenced (http://bit.ly/wrFRnF), a small tidbit of interest re-NS 32 --
    "R&T operates NS 32, a research rail car that tests the pulling power of locomotives and freight car dynamics, and two sets of track geometry cars equipped with sensors that detect defects in rail, cross ties, and other track infrastructure."
    22 Mar 2012, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    It appears that the PowerCube video may drawing attention from more than the Axionistas. I just checked YouTube and the view count is currently at 311, which seem a good deal higher than I recall.
    22 Mar 2012, 09:55 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    (TSLA): Broke out of a triangle at the top, trading below the three prior tops.

     

    I'll wait for a small price rebound and do a small put contract for 4/21 expiration strike $34 *if* volume and guts show at the same time.

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 10:05 AM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13581) | Send Message
     
    We are on the same path there, my friend...
    22 Mar 2012, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Took the market-maker some time, but long 3 4/21 $34 put contracts @ $1.45.

     

    Now the race between time-decay and price drop begins!

     

    I hope my TA was correct.

     

    xxx <-- fingers crossed.

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 12:00 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    P.S. Break-even is $1.54 (round-trip), with fees on three contracts. With a delta of ~36% starting, even a $1 drop puts me in the money.

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 12:11 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    Best of luck HTL...
    22 Mar 2012, 12:15 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Tim!

     

    Heh! If I do get lucky, I'll blame it on my exemplary skill, of course! Got to feed the ego you know! :-))

     

    And I'll just forget about those fingers I crossed!

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1694) | Send Message
     
    Rebecca Lindland, director of research for IHS Automotive, says start/stop is the next big improvement.

     

    http://n.pr/GLNoWm

     

    I'm wondering how else to invest, beyond AXPW. Maybe its time for a small position in Exide.
    22 Mar 2012, 10:21 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    MXWL
    22 Mar 2012, 10:30 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Maxwell's a fine company but it's carrying an awfully high market cap given its business fundamentals.
    22 Mar 2012, 10:41 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    The problem with investing in battery companies at the moment is there is little overall market interest in batteries right now. Jim Cramer stated recently "nobody is interested in batteries." When you look at the sector losses (AXPW, Ener1, ABAT, AI23, XIDE, ZBB, NEWN, PPO to name a few its been nothing but carnage. I like my AXPW holding, but I'm going to pass on all the rest. You could throw a dart and probably do better IMHO.

     

    I know JP likes XIDE's chances, but their management leaves me unimpressed. If I HAD to buy I would probably go with JCI. They are well positioned and not entirely dependent on batteries. The only other buy worth considering to me is ENS. But this is just MHO. Mawwell is attacking the market from a different angle, appears well run and focused and had some success, but it is to pricey for my taste.
    22 Mar 2012, 12:00 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Aw heck BW. I like being invested in what Cramer's not interested in. I still remember when he wrote on his fists: Natural Gas, $16.

     

    Still waiting for that one... down at around $2.25 from the $10-ish number where he made that prediction.
    22 Mar 2012, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Did you forget about his call that housing had bottomed about ... 2(?) years ago?

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 12:08 PM Reply Like
  • Nicholas Chen
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    I'll go with Peter Lynch when he says that you find multi-baggers in overlooked sectors. Lithium may have made some nice trading gains for some, but it never was a long term growth return as the IPO's priced in the hype.

     

    It's just my wildest dreams, but if a company like PPO could sport a market cap 100x of AXPW (even after falling by half), then when AXPW starts getting orders and Wall Street catches on...
    22 Mar 2012, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Lets not be unfair to JJC. Housing did bottom. He just forgot to add, it had, and has, more bottoms in its future, some of which are, well, you know, a bit lower than the one he called in certain regions... because real estate is region specific... and uh... sure, most every region had not hit its lowest bottom two years ago... but...

     

    #@*&% it, the only defense is no one says "buy buy buy" like JJC.

     

    - again... who cares what he says about batteries until he jumps on the bandwagon late in the up-cycle?
    22 Mar 2012, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    My fondness for Exide comes from channeling Baron Rothschild who taught us to buy blood in the streets. It has an ultra-ugly chart and enough AGM capacity coming on line to bump gross margins by $150 million. The combination of the two makes for a fascinating speculation if you're willing to wait a while.

     

    Enerys has been running like a scalded cat since October when it traded below $20 for a few days. While JCI's price ramp has been less dramatic, it's had a nice run from the mid-$20s. All things being equal I'd approach both with caution.
    22 Mar 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1694) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Bangwhiz. I suppose though that the time the last person gives up on batteries is the time to buy.
    22 Mar 2012, 12:28 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I failed to mention two more battery stock casualties, C&D and China Ritar. I also don't care what Cramer says, but the stock charts are saying the same thing.

     

    The wonderful thing about the PbC is it is not a another commodity LA or L-ion "me too" battery. That slows market acceptance, but bear in mind Axion didn't really push the sales pedal to the metal until late January. I expect things to be different within a year.
    22 Mar 2012, 03:31 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1285) | Send Message
     
    speaking of ugly charts, anyone have thoughts on BAS?
    22 Mar 2012, 11:50 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    http://yhoo.it/GRqSdP;range=6m;compare=hal+...
    23 Mar 2012, 10:07 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    argh. use the link and hit compare and add in HAL, KEG, and NBR.

     

    Charts looks very similar.
    23 Mar 2012, 10:09 AM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1694) | Send Message
     
    I like Maxwell too, but think I'll wait for a better entry point. I believe its ultracapacitors are in many start-stop equipped cars in Europe. Anyone know how those systems are performing over time?
    22 Mar 2012, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Maxwell's most recent Form 10-K says their stop-start system was introduced by Peugeot in 2010 and has been installed in more than 300,000 cars.

     

    In a recent conference call Mr. Schramm said the BoostCap module increased the life of an AGM battery by about a third. What he didn't get into was the reality that the BoostCap module can prevent voltage drop-out during engine re-start but it has no meaningful impact on the loss of dynamic charge acceptance in the AGM battery.
    22 Mar 2012, 11:47 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    What does that statement mean?

     

    It means that adding an ultracapacitor ( BoostCap module) to a battery does not a PbC make.
    Another way of stating that is that the PbC is a disruptive technology that is apparently suited to many many different battery applications like:
    start stop technology
    hi-bred locomotives
    UPS battery applications
    Grid Storage

     

    The difference between "disruptive" and "innovative" is why Axionistas buy and hold.
    22 Mar 2012, 02:16 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1694) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, John. Just so I'm sure I understand. . . How long can the owner of an ultracapacitor equipped Peugot expect the stop/start system to function well?

     

    I think you are saying that the system will work better than one that is only AGM equipped, but only until the AGM battery stops fully charging.
    22 Mar 2012, 03:16 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The BoostCap module may extend the timing of the decay curve on an AGM battery by about 30%, but it can't do anything to change the shape of the decay curve. It's primary purpose is to offset voltage sags during engine restarts that might cause accessories to cut out and screens to go blank.

     

    http://aol.it/GHkjtF
    22 Mar 2012, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1694) | Send Message
     
    I see. Thanks!
    22 Mar 2012, 03:55 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1694) | Send Message
     
    A third longer lifespan is a big deal, but I have to believe that the economics of the PbC will win out when a liter of gas cost $1.80 USD.
    I love the idea of a PbC for AGM retrofits! Is it possible for me to buy a PbC right now? I'm thinking not.
    22 Mar 2012, 04:08 PM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (867) | Send Message
     
    Unleaded gas here in Bermuda is about $8.60 per gallon.
    22 Mar 2012, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1694) | Send Message
     
    Did not release just how high it was. Just like in electricity generation, renewables and alternatives are cost competitive now if you are on an island!
    22 Mar 2012, 04:20 PM Reply Like
  • D Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (1694) | Send Message
     
    Bermuda might be the perfect place for residential power back-up provided by solar and PbC. Perhaps Rosewater could be invited to make a presentation.
    22 Mar 2012, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Just be sure and put the batteries etc. on top of a pillar to avoid a "Fukishima Effect" when those hurricanes come rolling through.

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 05:07 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13581) | Send Message
     
    That's right, HTL.

     

    Of course, if the Bermudans want to design their solar systems to the same standards as the UD reactors in Japan...

     

    They would install the solar panels in the basement and put the batteries on the roof.
    22 Mar 2012, 06:05 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    LoL! Ending the day with a good laugh!

     

    Thanks!

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 06:45 PM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (247) | Send Message
     
    About $7.90 here in France. 1.62 euro per liter and using $1.30 exchange rate.
    23 Mar 2012, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW): Got some selling going on apparently - buy, sell, unknown at 13:04 are 16,250, 100,013 and 14,000 giving a buy:sell of 1:6.155.

     

    Almost all sales at the bid., largest block 20K @ $0.40, narrow range $0.39-$0.41 (500 shares).

     

    Bid/ask range down a wee bit - now (13:23) $0.3821/$0.3999 10K each ATM.

     

    20- trades as of 13:04.

     

    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 01:23 PM Reply Like
  • battman
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    I was the 20,000 at 0.40. I think I've just discovered something. When I buy......SELL. And when I sell......wait for it.......wait for it.......BUY! I'm not selling yet, so let's just sit tight.
    22 Mar 2012, 02:20 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    Battman: I think you made a good buy. I still think anything below $0.42 is a good buy.

     

    With the rewards potential down the road, a penny or two here should matter very little.

     

    If it's a trade, that's different, of course.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    22 Mar 2012, 02:24 PM Reply Like
  • battman
    , contributor
    Comments (370) | Send Message
     
    Long term H.T.
    22 Mar 2012, 02:41 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1962) | Send Message
     
    VW just announced a new hybrid for US market: TDI & electric powered, touting 45mpg hwy, nothing for city yet. They discuss sitting in traffic with the engine off and moving 10 feet at a time electrically. Another car maker with a hotel load problem.
    22 Mar 2012, 03:28 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    TG mentioned multiple OEM's were talking to Axion. I wouldn't be surprised to find that most of those were European OEMs. Much more government pressure on them to clean the air.
    22 Mar 2012, 04:19 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19440) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW): Got an AH trade, 9K $0.382 16:04:37. If history holds, that confirms my earlier guess we had a seller (likely Quercus) in the market today again.

     

    As before, I expect a multi-day sell here, so Friday and maybe Monday.

     

    I'll do a little in-depth this evening or in the morning and see what I can spot and guess at.

     

    From my earlier look at the buy:sell, my estimate is the shares went to market-maker at an even lower price.

     

    I wouldn't advocate being a bottom-fisher based on that, but a wee bit of patience may allow rounding out your position at an attractive price.

     

    More by the morning.

     

    MHO (for now),
    HardToLove

     

    P.S. My naked long puts on (TSLA) finished in the money on reasonable, though not as strong as I would've liked, volume. But since I didn't wait for confirmation of a change in trend (a second day closing below the price-points I had marked), this is not surprising.

     

    It does leave a little greater risk, but if the potential target prices are quickly hit, the reward made the risk reasonable for *me*.
    22 Mar 2012, 04:20 PM Reply Like
  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (523) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » **********************...
    **********************...

     

    There's a new APC ready for your use!

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    **********************...
    **********************...
    22 Mar 2012, 06:06 PM Reply Like
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