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  • Axion Power Concentrator 85: Beginning April 3, 2012, Jyleluce Chart Of PbC Performance 144 comments
    Apr 3, 2012 9:36 AM | about stocks: AXPW

    These instablogs and the people who maintain them have no relationship whatsoever to Axion Power International. To our direct knowledge no person with a current relationship to Axion Power International other than being a shareholder participates in these instablogs.

    LINKS to valuable Axion Power Research and websites:

    The Axion Power Concentrator Web Sites created by APC commentator Bangwhiz it is a complete easy-to-use online archive of all the information contained in the entire Axion Power Concentrator series from day one; including reports, articles, comments and posted links.

    Axion Power Wikispaces Web Site, created by APC commentator WDD. It is an excellent ongoing notebook aggregation of Axion Power facts.

    Axion Power Website, the first place any prospective investor should go and thoroughly explore with all SEC filings and investor presentations as well as past and present Press Releases.

    ----------------------

    Jlyleluce PbC Performance Chart: comparing charge acceptance and charge time of the PbC to ARLA/AGM batteries with and without carbon additives. It has been slightly reformatted for display purposes.

    (click to enlarge)
     COMPARISON OF BATTERY TECHNOLOGY FOR START/STOP APPLICATION

    ---------------------------
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Comments (144)
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  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (523) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Last two comments by LT, seemed appropriate to put both here.

     

    ===============
    What I like about the systems (PC, home PC, & others in development) is that they are NOT 2 -3 years out like auto or the real fruits of rail IF NS does the rebuilds like the 999 for other RR's like they do maintenance or overhauls.
    These products are going to be marketable any time after Sept. of THIS year.
    IMO, This is where the revenue growth and break even come from in 2013.
    ===============
    I was very encouraged by the statement "our part of the testing is COMPLETED" on at least the NS contract, Military contract, PowerCube & Viridity project.
    This lets sales & marketing focus on just closing these sales and Management and engineers can devote their time to developing the new markets such as oil rigs, home PC and other battery storage markets that will lead to a short time to market and revenues in a year or less.
    ===============
    3 Apr 2012, 08:26 AM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (3951) | Send Message
     
    As a chemist, I love the science, the SEM images of Pb-sulfate, the data-dense white paper from BMW Turkey. As a tree-hugger, I love the green stuff, the recyclability, the PowerCube scalability and storage. And what kid (nevermind the 50+ years) doesn't love LOCOmotives!

     

    But the best part of the call for me was the barely-contained excitement of a cool calm confident Mr. Granville.
    3 Apr 2012, 08:57 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Hey Bang! Another target for you! ;-))

     

    "SEM" - Scanning Electron Microscope? ISTR there's something following "Electron", but I forget what it is!

     

    HardToLove
    3 Apr 2012, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    For my entire tenure at Axion, the animated character that best fit Tom's demeanor was Eeyore the donkey from Winnie the Pooh. It was brutally hard work without much fun. I only wish the people who see Tom as upbeat today could have known him when things were more challenging.
    3 Apr 2012, 09:20 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Archive Footage: http://bit.ly/HdFhCI
    3 Apr 2012, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    MAP, it may go down some as HTL just said, but probably not much. Any news will more than offset the overall mkt. correction.

     

    As to any new financing, I don't expect them to wait till the last minute to do it, but when they do it with purchase orders in hand, it will be with new investors and at a higher price than the last. I won't waste time elaborating, but I expect future capital raises to be entirely different than the last one, with much stronger players. Then as JP has stated repeatedly it will be a positive if not immediately then very soon afterward.
    3 Apr 2012, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Hell LT, I thought the last two financing transactions were positive. If it hadn't been for those darned inconsiderate stockholders zigging when I thought they'd zag, we'd have an entirely different market dynamic.
    3 Apr 2012, 09:38 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Well, at 7 minutes in, 102K+ volume with last trade $0.4399.

     

    Sniff, sniff! I smell upside in the air!

     

    Low was $0.405 at the open and it popped +1.3 cents immediately.

     

    HardToLove
    3 Apr 2012, 09:40 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3221) | Send Message
     
    On our way up from the 40 cent basing. 60 again soon?

     

    And 200k shares in the 1st half hour should bring an even bigger smile to HTL.
    3 Apr 2012, 09:54 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    I think so....and maybe higher with news. There is a good amount of shares bid at .44 now
    3 Apr 2012, 10:00 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    A few days of million + daily volume would push it up considerably. I might get even someday ! LOL
    3 Apr 2012, 10:04 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    While I look forward to the day that you're even, I'll be happier when I'm up.
    3 Apr 2012, 10:23 AM Reply Like
  • JohnM121
    , contributor
    Comments (512) | Send Message
     
    Notable comments in CC for me:
    1. In a holding pattern. Means we're still tinkering, but the the manufacturing and manufacturability is good and ready to go. You can't force sales faster than the customer decision making process.
    2. Don't need a lot of staff to man the robot line. My take: When sales come in, with just a couple of workers, the electrode line can run 24/7. I don know what the runtime is for the current volume, but I suspect it is much less than 40 hours a week. I can see it ramped up to 140 at 20 hours/day before or during the new line setup.
    3 Apr 2012, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • briancav
    , contributor
    Comments (8) | Send Message
     
    JP - you have stated that you thought Axion would be your first billion $ market cap company you were involved with. I'm guessing that opinion was based on what you knew years ago and the market potential at that time. With what appears to be significanlty more market opportunities (what we know today), what is your opinion on the liklihood AXPW's market cap gets to $1B and are you going to raise this bar?
    3 Apr 2012, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Let's just say I think I set the bar too low eight years ago.
    3 Apr 2012, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    There has been a great expansion of military sales opportunities in connection of Viridity. They have responded to several military RFP's with Viridity. That connection is paying off handsomely.
    3 Apr 2012, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    In my research of renewable energy and the microgrid market in particular, Viridity appears to be one of the strongest most established players. It's nice to know that every time I see Viridity's name, Viridity is considering whether its partner, Axion, would be a good fit for storage.
    3 Apr 2012, 01:40 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Would I be too far off base to think they've already made that determination?

     

    HardToLove
    3 Apr 2012, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I think Viridity understands that there is no silver bullet, but the PbC is a great choice for the 87% of the market that doesn't need the extreme performance of flywheels, supercapacitors or power optimized lithium ion.
    3 Apr 2012, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Not to be Debbie Downer, but just because they responded doesn't mean they won any of them. As you correctly state (but someone reading quickly might miss,) they're opportunities, not done deals.

     

    It will be interesting to see who does publicity on such deals ... Axion, Viridity, or both and how that changes as more sales hopefully happen. We must also remember than any contract value (should they ever be released) has a significant chunk going to the inverter manufacturer.

     

    I must say I've been a little surprised and disappointed not to see more this calendar year on the Viridity Energy PR front ... they do a lot more than just the potential PowerCube stuff:

     

    http://bit.ly/HbVQwL

     

    On the other hand, the fact the FERC "pay for performance" rules are not set in stone yet, and we don't know exactly when they will be, means that potential PowerCube purchasers (broadening away from your Military focused comment) at this point can't really quantify the payoff period for purchase of a PowerCube.
    (TG says projected decision late Q2 or early Q3)
    3 Apr 2012, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    "On the other hand, the fact the FERC "pay for performance" rules are not set in stone yet,"

     

    WT - as I recall, although the new rule was established last year, I think all the RTOs or ISOs are supposed to set up different tariff type systems, but are not required to have them set up until some time in 2012.
    3 Apr 2012, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Several Viridity releases go out at the LOI stage, rather than the contract stage. I think the wording of this release is fascinatingly vague:

     

    http://bit.ly/HbRDFx
    3 Apr 2012, 02:15 PM Reply Like
  • Ryan Stanton
    , contributor
    Comments (100) | Send Message
     
    After a little more digging on the FERC pay for performance ruling timelines:
    The order was passed October 29th. FERC requires ISOs and RTOs to implement by August 15, 2012 (300 days). Rate structures are likely being reviewed by FERC as we speak.

     

    http://1.usa.gov/HGsYhU
    Pages 106-108 provide the summary.

     

    It might just be feasible to book a few orders (possibly turn them into shipments?) by EOY2012 given the new tariff structures in place Aug 15th. I'm sure Rosewater is all over it?

     

    -Ryan
    3 Apr 2012, 03:28 PM Reply Like
  • Ryan Stanton
    , contributor
    Comments (100) | Send Message
     
    Interesting. I've always been instructed to not count your chicks 'til they hatch. Something about issuing PRs on LOIs seems to doom them to never move forward.

     

    Even more interesting to me is Viridity's value proposition for storage/microgrid. They make very little of the "product" that goes into a storage/microgrid project (the software, primarily, which isn't terribly complicated), so they will have to mark everything up (batteries, power electronics, etc.) if they turn-key the project.
    The economics for storage go out the window very quickly in that scenario.

     

    -Ryan
    3 Apr 2012, 03:38 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I'll bet their software and ability to navigate the swamp are worth their weight in gold. You need to remember that Viridity's management are former top level PJM and FERC hands who decided to make a buck. Their knowledge and experience are priceless.
    3 Apr 2012, 03:48 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    Viridity makes most of their money by taking a % of the savings plus consulting fees & software.
    3 Apr 2012, 03:59 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    I agree, and would probably invest a dollar in them if they ever go public. They have grown nicely so far. They are a key component for AXPW at this point.
    Just as AXPW is building "Systems" now, I wouldn't be surprised if Viridity isn't working toward selling a "solution"....buy it, plug it in, go to work.
    3 Apr 2012, 04:02 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    Hell, finance it, they plug it in, you keep on working, soon little checks start coming in the mail...

     

    Every min-mart owner with a spare parking space is going to want one.
    3 Apr 2012, 04:04 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (3951) | Send Message
     
    Soooooo, that's the value they add! Digging into the Executive bios on their site does turn that up - Audrey the Founder was a meat-and-potatoes VP/COO for PJM and depending on how you see it, two or three of the other executive team members are also from PJM. (and who here doesn't love the fact that co-founder/VP Alain Steven is a engineer physicist?!).

     

    Otherwise, I agreed with Ryan's comments and wondered why Axion let go of their product to wet-behind soft(ware) geeks.

     

    All that said, I am disappointed when I don't see Axion getting any "props" from Viridity on their site. In fact, I have gone several times to thier website (http://bit.ly/v5ohew) and their site search turns up ZERO results for "Axion". What gives?
    3 Apr 2012, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    Viridity may not want their best prospective customers going straight to New Castle. That could get outta hand.... ;)
    3 Apr 2012, 04:52 PM Reply Like
  • jpau
    , contributor
    Comments (967) | Send Message
     
    Not to mention their connections
    3 Apr 2012, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Searching on the Viridity Energy "search keywords" boxes on their site doesn't quite seem to be up to prime time standards.

     

    However if you're persistent you get here:
    http://bit.ly/HIB0FV

     

    returns a mention of Axion:
    http://bit.ly/HeeguC

     

    but my goodness, check out the (expanded) URL!
    3 Apr 2012, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I've seen nothing to indicate that Viridity is in the hardware business. They may well get some sort of disclosed commission from vendors but they seem to be operating a fee for services model.
    3 Apr 2012, 05:37 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (3951) | Send Message
     
    THANKS, wtb... I had read one or the other of those November releases in the past, but could not relocate it. While 481086 makes a good point, as JP noted, Viridity brings significant value-adding cred.
    3 Apr 2012, 05:40 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    My understanding is that Viridity's software is similar to Encorp's which is a software that is basically layered over the entire "microgrid" or system ... so it is the highest level software in any of these systems/networks linking everything together, i.e. other software and hardware. .. the Viridity executives have very significant industry experience as former execs from PJM and industry-wide relationships and contacts ...

     

    Its a good thing to be one of the numbers in their rolodex.
    3 Apr 2012, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    I have to admit Edmund, I am not sure what's up with that. Last time I looked, Viridity had links up describing the PJM relationship.

     

    If you google it, the link still comes up

     

    http://bit.ly/HRcjr7
    3 Apr 2012, 07:52 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Had a pleasant email exchange with Viridity Energy.

     

    They're working on the Search bug, and they switched the URL for the Axion link to this: http://bit.ly/HoETuI

     

    but as BW has pointed out, changing URLs does bad things to Google's search results, at least at the moment.
    4 Apr 2012, 03:30 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    Nice work wt!
    4 Apr 2012, 05:02 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Briancav, JohnM121, and Edmund Metcalfe - great to have you here!!!

     

    (Enjoying the fresh voices a good CC brings into the discussion. We've known you were here, but its good to hear from you!)
    3 Apr 2012, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Just an FYI: after 50 trades (10:14:53 - had taken us 2 days to get that volume not too long ago), buy:sell 3.11:1.

     

    At 74 trades, 11:09:38, buy:sell 2.06:1.

     

    Still decent. I do expect it should weaken a bit as it's abvious there's some folks that can't resist taking some off the table here.

     

    HardToLove
    3 Apr 2012, 11:30 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    If volume is 500,000 today, My rough estimate is that Quercus will have sold EOD about 300,000 of the planned 850,000 shares.
    3 Apr 2012, 11:33 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I think we are establishing a good floor on the stock. First piece of really good news gets us to .60 or higher IMHO.
    3 Apr 2012, 11:39 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    You mean I can't buy more for under $.41 anymore?

     

    Phooey !

     

    (*kidding*)
    3 Apr 2012, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1966) | Send Message
     
    Earlier, someone was concerned with the next raise. The next raise will likely be to pay for expansion; not a problem.

     

    Even less of a problem is that there are so few shares outstanding. While, we're dreaming, let's dream of the stock splits. It's the splits that create the real wealth.

     

    That said, I'm happy to ride it out, step by step up, with sometimes a step back. This is a journey that we will all remember, if it plays out the way Tom sounded.
    3 Apr 2012, 11:47 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I was screaming for a sales exec and more sales activity all last year. It was premature, ie - the Gen2 line hadn't been sorted out yet. Now Vani's here with that great white shark smile of his and the sales pipeline is filling up the way it should be. I was so excited after the CC I couldn't get to sleep until 3:30AM.

     

    It wasn't dreams of riches keeping me awake, it was sticking with Axion throughout all that doom and gloom like cheering for an NFL team that was getting the hell beat out of it every Sunday. Now they've got a quarterback (Vani), a coach (TG), a running back in the Gen2 line, two wide receivers in Rosewater and Viridity and they are moving the ball! It's just damn exciting to me to see Axion's hard work over so many tough years coming together so well
    3 Apr 2012, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    12:15: Positive TA indicators include already exceeded yesterday's volume, 532.8K vs. 537.1K while up 8.83%.

     

    More than doubled yesterday's 10-day average volume of 247.4K.

     

    For context, Friday's average was 210.92K.

     

    This is what's called a "powerful move": price and volume moving together right now.

     

    HardToLove
    3 Apr 2012, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    if price creeps up the golden cross is within striking distance
    could draw some interest
    neanderthals dont punctuate
    3 Apr 2012, 12:35 PM Reply Like
  • Ryan Stanton
    , contributor
    Comments (100) | Send Message
     
    To steal from Mastercard's ad campaign...

     

    Selling A123 for a 50% loss following warranty announcement?
    Painful.

     

    Buying more shares of Axion at $0.41 with the leftovers?
    *Priceless.*

     

    Thanks for everyone's invaluable insight into AXPW!

     

    Run, baby run!
    3 Apr 2012, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Tough loss Ryan! Terrible really. Great move on the .41 buy. I increased my position with the last of my powder when TG went into his wrap up - didn't wait to the conclusion. I had heard enough already to pull the trigger at .4149.
    3 Apr 2012, 01:01 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    BW: And look, your purchase is still above water! 8-)
    3 Apr 2012, 06:27 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    A first in the history of my purchases of Axion stock! What hath God wrought!
    3 Apr 2012, 07:24 PM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Off topic

     

    A123 finally under $1

     

    Video clip about about 2 yrs ago

     

    http://bit.ly/HahjHo
    3 Apr 2012, 12:45 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Good history.

     

    Is the lesson that we don't want White House/government support for Axion?

     

    (track record seems to point that way)

     

    Thanks pianoman!
    3 Apr 2012, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    The government couldn't invest in Axion - it just didn't look like it was going to be a certain failure!
    3 Apr 2012, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    So with A123's share price falling, and Axion's rising, who wants to take bets on when and at what price they end up equaling each other? Of course if that happens, A123's shares won't really be "worth" the same amount, since they will be falling.
    4 Apr 2012, 12:34 AM Reply Like
  • Deamiter
    , contributor
    Comments (165) | Send Message
     
    Or WILL they since the both trends are already public knowledge and well known by those trading at the current price...
    4 Apr 2012, 11:27 AM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (958) | Send Message
     
    I guess there will not intersect @ $1.23!
    4 Apr 2012, 03:17 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    100 trades, 13:00:54 buy:sell 1.59:1.

     

    Volume ~555K. Makes for a nice average trade size.

     

    At 13:20, volume 582K, pps $0.449.

     

    HardToLove
    3 Apr 2012, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    have broken out the top bollinger band with increasing volume, moved above 50 day MA.
    3 Apr 2012, 01:44 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    I see.
    Neanderthal no punctuate.
    ...but Bollinger Bands are where the Metro kicks in.

     

    Where's your Bollinger bottom? Thinking about raiding my change drawer for more...
    3 Apr 2012, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    We didn't survive as a species so one should look upon my observations with great suspicion - not making any projections. I did, however, hunt and gather shares yesterday and today. Tomorrow IMHO will be very interesting day to see which way price and volume goes.
    3 Apr 2012, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    1:36 PM Shares of Tesla Motors (TSLA +2.9%) kick up a gain after a flood of auto sales reports tips off that fuel-efficient cars are gaining more favor with consumers. Comment! [On the Move]
    3 Apr 2012, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Sales for the Volt last month totaled 2,289 units, more than double the 1,023 units sold in February. Leaf sales were basically flat.

     

    http://aol.it/HHPVjE

     

    Since GE has said that employees of its healthcare unit will only be allowed to drive Volts as company cars and that unit buys about1,000 cars a month, I'll curb my enthusiasm.

     

    http://bit.ly/HVDKeX

     

    To put it in context, GM announced yesterday that it will suspend production of the Volt for an extra week this summer as it tries to control the electric car's inventory.

     

    http://bit.ly/HHCTQQ
    3 Apr 2012, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    The Volt may be flopping and twitching, but looks like the Ampera may have a bit more life in it... for now....

     

    http://aol.it/HbTbQ1
    3 Apr 2012, 02:27 PM Reply Like
  • Articula
    , contributor
    Comments (283) | Send Message
     
    Just a thought but should we link the CC to the next couple of threads up top?
    3 Apr 2012, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Good suggestion HTL. Right at the top! Thanks Articula. I'll link it in the new investor and headline section of the APC website also.
    3 Apr 2012, 02:16 PM Reply Like
  • D_Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    "first of its kind in the country." New microgrid at a massive county jail in CA.
    http://yhoo.it/Hc0ATc
    "The smart grid also allows the jail to buy power from the utility during the least expensive nonpeak hours and store it for use during the most expensive summer peak hours, which provides significant savings."
    Includes 2MW energy storage. Not sure the battery chemistry.
    3 Apr 2012, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    Its the Santa Rita Jail Microgrid -

     

    Last I heard they had a fuel cell and were trying out lithium iron phosphate and sodium sulfur ...

     

    http://1.usa.gov/HI96db

     

    The last page also has an interesting graph showing the difference between power and energy savings ...
    3 Apr 2012, 03:26 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1966) | Send Message
     
    From a Law Enforcement perspective, it's more important that the jail can provide its own power for an extended period of time were there to be a major catastrophe, such as an earthquake. The jail is close to the San Andreas Fault.

     

    This combination of fuel cells and batteries will become increasingly more important. Fuel cells provide distributed energy, and heat/air conditioning at about 90% efficiency, I've read. The battery allows the capability to sell electricity back to the system. The fuel cell can be powered by methane created by off gasses and a belt press in the sewerage processing area. If you plan really well and have an off gassing situation, power and heat/air conditioning can become pretty economical.
    3 Apr 2012, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • D_Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Stefan.

     

    "the jail will be able to seamlessly disconnect from the grid and operate as an island in the event of a disturbance, reconnecting again once the disturbance has dissipated. The extent to which that jail is capable of islanding is principally dependant on the energy capacity of the battery"
    3 Apr 2012, 04:50 PM Reply Like
  • Tampa Ted
    , contributor
    Comments (2652) | Send Message
     
    Interestingly, ZBB also provides a grid islanding device ("GID") in its offering ...
    3 Apr 2012, 08:01 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Any of our TX folks that are in Johnson cnty, hope the tornado doesn't get you and/or yours!

     

    HardToLove
    3 Apr 2012, 02:35 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    Yikes! am in Kilgore, TX. That rascal can just keep moving north...
    3 Apr 2012, 03:00 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >H.T. Love ... A rather good sized one passed by the shop here in Lancaster (Southern Dallas County). Maybe a mile away to the West (less than 200 yards from the H.S.). No rain, no high wind ... just a clear view of a well defined storm throwing debris in the air and headed straight for the trucking terminals on Interstate 20.
    3 Apr 2012, 03:36 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >H.T. Love ... Update. Checking the debris trail it seems to have been about 500 yards wide. Doesn't look like it actually hit anything in the town and passed by the high school football stadium so close it could have bought a ticket. From there north to the trucking terminals is 5 miles of wheat & grassland. Lancaster was lucky.
    3 Apr 2012, 03:51 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    CNBC is showing damge in what looks mostly like a trk/tlr parking area. They haven't reported any injusries yet, so maybe the early warnings gave everyone a break.

     

    Moving east and they say warning clear to Louisiana now.

     

    Planes at DFW had to be inspected in case of damage - mostly hail damage was feared.

     

    There were, IIRC, about 6 or so shown on radar.

     

    If no *major* damage and no injuries, that'll be a god-send.

     

    HardToLove
    3 Apr 2012, 04:12 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    I just talked with my in-laws in Joshua, TX. They were missed! Their nearest touchdown was north of Cleburne. (Ironically we live in Johnson County GA.

     

    I am greatly encouraged that the CC gave us good news on all fronts. Thanks again for the analysis by the more experienced investors.
    3 Apr 2012, 04:21 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I'm in Cobb County GA. Where's Johnson County GA?
    3 Apr 2012, 09:35 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    125 miles southeast of Atlanta. 60 miles east, southeast of Macon. A rural farming county. Wrightsville, GA. Hershell Walker put us on the map.
    3 Apr 2012, 09:42 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2268) | Send Message
     
    Being an invertebrate bottom dweller, I snagged another block at $.40 yesterday morning before the CC. I was hoping for exactly the great news we got and the market response we are seeing today. It averaged me down to <.43, so now I am in the green again, and expecting to stay that way.

     

    Spinelessly Accumulating....

     

    Thanks to Tom Granville and John Peterson for building this company into the opportunity that it is!

     

    Thanks to all the Axionistas for providing the thoughtful discussion that has increased my confidence in the investment.
    3 Apr 2012, 02:47 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I hope it's a 25 bagger for you.
    3 Apr 2012, 02:56 PM Reply Like
  • f-kru
    , contributor
    Comments (263) | Send Message
     
    Hey, 10x wouldn't be bad either, right :-)
    3 Apr 2012, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    All I can say is it's going to take one heckuva (if not helluva) lot of stones to stay on this elevator all the way to that glorious 10th floor... some will have 'em, some just won't... You know who you are. My comments about jumping off at the 6th are just frank self-knowledge. Even the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th floors will be life-changing for some and that's a fact. As for me, I say I think I can hold my water 'til the 6th, but this thing finally gets moving like that it's damn sure going to be a perspiring ride...
    3 Apr 2012, 03:51 PM Reply Like
  • Nicholas Chen
    , contributor
    Comments (2770) | Send Message
     
    I hope I have the stones to add once the share price really starts moving.
    3 Apr 2012, 04:36 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (2300) | Send Message
     
    48106: I've just put my shares in a "mental utility drawer" not to be touched. It helps with the emotions on the way up (as well as pull backs). Very pleased with the tone lately.
    Tomorrow might carry the stock further towards .50
    3 Apr 2012, 04:50 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    I hear ya. Trouble is, those mental utility drawers can have easy locks. Though maybe yours doesn't. But if we run too far, that little devil on your shoulder will surely wake up and start telling you to open it. We get to even a coupla bucks and I bet you, many foreheads will be perspiring... ;) Obviously none of us know what will happen, but it's still good to play out the what-ifs beforehand and thus be fortified...
    3 Apr 2012, 05:02 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (2300) | Send Message
     
    481086... all good points.

     

    I think I'm in an "easier position" from being perfectly LATE to this party and accumulating most of my shares well below .40c in DEC '11.

     

    I guess to be fair, however, my thought to guard against the "perspiring forehead" would be to sell a chuck at a 2 bagger and be insanely patient with the rest.

     

    Bottom line.... all easier said than done
    3 Apr 2012, 05:34 PM Reply Like
  • f-kru
    , contributor
    Comments (263) | Send Message
     
    Won't that be a nice worry to have? Not taking all the chips off the table at the same time is probably a wise thing to do.
    4 Apr 2012, 04:09 AM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2268) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, John.

     

    A 25 bagger would put my kids through college.

     

    More good press just out:

     

    http://bit.ly/HI814V
    3 Apr 2012, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (3951) | Send Message
     
    That was me at .4549 today. :) Still smiling to average down another 3%.
    3 Apr 2012, 04:52 PM Reply Like
  • Occam's_Razor
    , contributor
    Comments (2300) | Send Message
     
    ... and so it begins
    3 Apr 2012, 04:56 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    ALL: "Curb Your Enthusiasm"!

     

    Not meaning to sound like I'm lecturing, but we are emotional beings.

     

    Nothing goes straight up and this won't either. Investing and trading is supposed to be an intellectual endeavor.

     

    Don't set yourself up for disappointment emotionally.

     

    For me, optimism is good, excitement is not.

     

    "Expect the worst and hope for the best and you can't be disappointed".

     

    Having said that ...

     

    If we have something akin to what I've seen before, we might get a higher high tomorrow and then a settle toward the middle. There could be a short/medium consolidation period as "the market catches its breath", which is to say that folks that are thinking things over start psychologically adjusting to the fact that they may not see $0.37 again, but they don't want to jump at ... $0.46 and then see $0.42 in the next day or two.

     

    These folks often wait a while.

     

    This is normal. Sans news of some kind, we could even see a "reversion to the mean", which IMO would be around $0.42. That's not a bad thing, especially if, as I suspect, good support is seen there.

     

    Now, because so much of the day was spent near the upper range (more on that in another comment) and the close was only 1/2 penny off the high, it's entirely possible that buyers are *not* yet exhausted at this price level for this time-frame. I say this because we still have increasing volume, 727K today, which has been a steady ramp up the last three days - not a trend-ending spike, I *think* (emphasis on think).

     

    One AH trade, 9,449 @ $0.435. If this is Quercus-related again, it looks like 1) price will initially hold $0.44 or greater early tomorrow and 2) Quercus selling for this cycle is likely ending.

     

    # 2 *may* allow us to see continued strength upwards if this odd size indicates what I suspect and the buyers at this level for this time are not yet exhausted.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    3 Apr 2012, 04:59 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    Emotion is the enemy of rational thought.
    3 Apr 2012, 06:19 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    Nah, just the antagonist. ;)
    3 Apr 2012, 06:22 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13581) | Send Message
     
    Well played, 48.

     

    In my experience emotion is just another important facet of our human existance which needs to be managed to be tolerable, and which is best taken in moderation.

     

    Rationality is a defining trait of the human mind, but without motivation it can lead to stagnation.
    3 Apr 2012, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    HTL> You notice both the uptick in volume and price at the end of the day? This horse will get tired eventually, but I think its still got legs under it for at least a while tomorrow. We would usually see both declining volume and price at the end of the day most of the past few months IIRC. (IIRC - you're rubbing off on me HTL)
    3 Apr 2012, 09:49 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    IIRC = Intellectually Inquisitive Retired Coot? :-))

     

    That makes two of us!

     

    HardToLove
    4 Apr 2012, 06:38 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11198) | Send Message
     
    Wouldn't surprise me if someone right now is approaching Quercus to buy all of their shares.

     

    If I had the money, that's what I would be doing.
    3 Apr 2012, 06:35 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    Hey Maya, had a similar thought when Special Sits was selling last December. Just buy the stock to stop the selling and watch the price appreciate. Is that what you are thinking?
    3 Apr 2012, 06:51 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    ahhh,,,c'mon Maya, it's only a little over a million ! LOL

     

    I would too....if I had it.
    3 Apr 2012, 07:15 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    Hmm... maybe we can take up a collection. Would have to be one heckuva collection though... ;)
    3 Apr 2012, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    .44 to .46 tomorrow my best guess.
    3 Apr 2012, 07:38 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    727K shares locked down today at least momentarily at .44 to .455.
    3 Apr 2012, 08:32 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Quercus Form-4 Filing

     

    http://1.usa.gov/HQvCQ2

     

    03/28/2012 16,000 $0.392
    03/29/2012 34,000 $0.3969
    03/30/2012 11,000 $0.4023
    04/02/2012 53,000 $0.4054
    04/03/2012 71,000 $0.4384

     

    Remaining beneficially owned: 2,826,352.

     

    HardToLove
    3 Apr 2012, 07:49 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    HTL: The form 4 filing on 3-27 shows a remaining balance of 2,311,352. The new form 4 today shows the balance at the end of 3-28 as 2,995,352. If you add the 16,000 sold on 3-28 back in you get 710,000 extra shares were added in to the total that Quercus owns before the start of the 3-28 trading day.

     

    Does this mean Quercus bought 710K more shares or is this a mistake on the new form 4????? HUMMMMMM 8-)
    3 Apr 2012, 08:32 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    When a person that's required to file reports on Form 4 buys shares, it creates a short swing profit window that stretches for six months on both sides of the buy date. If there is an offsetting sale to the purchase within the six month window, the selling stockholder is legally required to disgorge the short-swing profit to the issuer. There are specialty law firms that monitor Form 4 filings like hawks because the laws on short-swing profits also require the selling stockholder to pay legal fees.

     

    Outfits like Quercus are always very careful about the short-swing profits rules and rarely make mistakes. I'd put the probability of a purchase at less than zero. A calculation error is far more likely.
    4 Apr 2012, 01:46 AM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    What I Like Best about Axion Today

     

    All previous PbC product from Axion needed hundreds of hours of explanation and study by the purchasing company's engineers before they could integrate it into their product. The more the engineer(s) knew about OTHER battery chemistry, the HARDER it was for them to make the mental shift to a Power intensive product like the PbC. Trust me on this, engineers think they understand a device that is "just like the other LA batteries I've dealt with". Except that it isn't. They look at a specification like Wh/kg and frown. Not even as good as regular old LA batteries!

     

    Why should they buy it? Mumble. Lying weasel salesmen.

     

    "One year of cycle testing with special fixtures? Why? It's a LA, AGM battery ferbog's sake."

     

    They WILL make the shift. But if every potential customer goes thru this barrier, Axion management could die of old age before cash flow break even. It's what we have seen for 3+ years now.

     

    Enter the PowerCube. It has a computer controlled energy management system that SHOULD prevent a user from doing significant damage to the 'Cube. Unless, of course, they diddle with the machinery or software. But is should tattle on them if that happens ;-)

     

    The PC is a BLACK BOX. You supply it with energy and then you take energy back out. The buyer/engineer/user does NOT need to understand anything about the PbC vs other battery technologies! Nor should they care!
    Peak power; check. Total energy; check.
    You cycle it X times at Y kWh/cycle over Z years and the depreciated cost per Whr is C. Oh my! Nice numbers!

     

    It's a system designer's product. Don't drop it or punch a hole in it and it does what it's suppose to. Just read the specs and the Warranty. Connect to power wiring as the attached diagrams show. Let it run its self tests and then call home to Axion to "report in" over the 'net or phone line.

     

    "What's a PbC?" Asks the money guy. Who cares! It stores energy. It's got a good warranty and the PC at Axion is making them money right now. Look at the ROI and sign the papers.

     

    That is why I think the PowerCube will be THE breakthrough product for Axion. The long wait should end this year.

     

    3 Apr 2012, 07:50 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for that info SHB. I love engineers - they can explain the crap to me I don't understand. Funny, I sold engineering services for years as a non-engineer. I don't know if I was the monkey or the organ ginder on a sales call. We took turns when we were at a customer. The engineer would grind the organ and I would dance, then when the time came to close the deal I would grind the organ and the engineer would dance if needed! :<D
    3 Apr 2012, 08:43 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    Made me laugh, Bang! Thanks!

     

    Watching a salesman do a "technical presentation dance" is amusing and sometimes informative :-)
    Power point spiels without real numbers always put me to sleep!

     

    3 Apr 2012, 11:48 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    I nominate this for an upcoming APC header. Well done!
    4 Apr 2012, 12:20 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    "That is why I think the PowerCube will be THE breakthrough product for Axion. The long wait should end this year."

     

    I agree and have a hunch the sale might come soon. Tom said something would happen in the next few months and fought the urge to say what it was. It would not surprise me if it was more PowerCube's...
    3 Apr 2012, 08:19 PM Reply Like
  • D_Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    Anyone able to to shed light on Xtreme Power as competition to AXPW? They use "dry cell battery technology"

     

    Been reading about their successes with storage for large wind farms. They also have plans to produce smaller systems which appear likely to compete directly with the Powercube.
    http://bit.ly/HJozcY
    They claim their batteries are environmentally benign, scalable, can respond in milliseconds, etc. I apologize if this has been covered here before.
    3 Apr 2012, 09:28 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Search the comments on the APC website with the term "Xtreme" and you'll be up to speed. Use the full database, not the 3 month.
    3 Apr 2012, 09:46 PM Reply Like
  • D_Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, Bang. Found a couple of references but Xtreme seems to be a bit of a mystery here. I would love to understand how their strings perform vs PbC and have an idea of the cost comparison.
    4 Apr 2012, 10:39 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Xtreme Power is apparently commercializing a lead based dry-cell technology that was originally developed by Ford. Their product description that says "Proprietary formulas of fundamental alloys, such as copper, lead and tellurium, are used to form bi-polar plates that provide a massive surface area at the nano-scale for the chemical reaction to take place, resulting in an extremely low internal resistance."

     

    I don't know how much tellurium Xtreme Power needs per MWh, but Tellurium is probably the scarcest industrial metal on the planet and critical to First Solar's cadmium-telluride thin film solar panels.
    4 Apr 2012, 10:53 AM Reply Like
  • D_Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    Found more on Xtreme Power via greentechmedia.com:

     

    "Sam Jaffe at IDC says he has confidence that Xtreme could one day get its prices down to $500 a kilowatt hour, or less than flow batteries and sodiums but Xtreme is not near that price now. . .

     

    "(CEO)Coe won't say what the core battery technology is, but he emphasized that it is a solid. "There is no free-flowing liquid, not gel, no paste," he said. The key to the material is that it has almost no electrical resistance, which means very little waste heat or energy lost in charging and recharging.

     

    Xtreme investor Tom Cain has said it is fiberglass. More recently, other sources have said Xtreme relies on lead acid batteries."
    4 Apr 2012, 01:23 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Magic Beans?
    4 Apr 2012, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    MAP> How much you want to wager on that below .40? Don't be insulted, people here know I would bet on the sun coming up tomorrow. How about $5 and name the time period first. Payment through Paypal.
    3 Apr 2012, 10:08 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >bangwhiz ... That reminds me, I still owe you a fiver. I don't have a PayPal ... hmmm.
    3 Apr 2012, 10:42 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11198) | Send Message
     
    Hilarious, Bang! About a month ago I made a $100 bet with a pal (who is tracking Axion; is considering putting in 200 large), that Axion will never again get down to 30 cents.

     

    He teases me about my conviction, but also says that is where he'll buy. "Nothing ventured, nothing lost," he once quipped. Adding, he'll use my hundred clams to buy Axion shares when he wins.

     

    Arrrgh! But also very funny. Especially because, and I haven't yet related this to him, is that he'll never have to pay me that $100.

     

    I failed to set an expiration date for this bet.

     

    And so the only thing possible, the only one of us who can collect, is him. It's worth a hundred bucks to me just to see the smile on my friend's face when I inform him he can't lose...

     

    ...just as I can't wait to smile at him about 20 or 30 months from now.
    3 Apr 2012, 11:20 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    You're a lousy gambler, Maya :-)
    4 Apr 2012, 12:09 AM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13581) | Send Message
     
    He does better with poker...
    4 Apr 2012, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (707) | Send Message
     
    BANG

     

    My hotel lost it's internet. Sorry, i cannot take your money. This one is too easy..Trading at 41.7 cents now!!!....I am the least bit insulted, just wondering what is running through your head right now...Plus i do not have a paypal account....so keep your money, looks like at least once it might break 40....easy bet..l

     

    The next easy bet was it hitting 46 today !!!!....lol..

     

    map
    4 Apr 2012, 12:55 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    The adoption to electric vehicles is slowly growing...

     

    Prius has record sales
    http://bloom.bg/HUfSYu
    4 Apr 2012, 04:17 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    BMW i-8 This is one nice ride ... would be nice if AXPW in it.

     

    http://yhoo.it/HbYROF
    4 Apr 2012, 04:52 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The i-8 is a beautiful car, but as soon as you put a plug on a car you're going to want the smallest and lightest batteries possible. I love the PbC, but it's too chubby for plug-ins.
    4 Apr 2012, 05:02 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    Arizona could make "Internet trolling" illegal :
    http://yhoo.it/Hnh9Hp
    4 Apr 2012, 04:55 AM Reply Like
  • JohnM121
    , contributor
    Comments (512) | Send Message
     
    The problem with laws is selective enforcement. E.G. in Boise ID, it is illegal to fish from a giraffe’s back. I see it every time I go out there.
    4 Apr 2012, 08:49 AM Reply Like
  • Deamiter
    , contributor
    Comments (165) | Send Message
     
    Pics or it didn't happen!
    4 Apr 2012, 11:31 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Unusual: pre-market trades.

     

    09:21:46 10K $0.45
    09:22:01 2K $0.4549

     

    That could be taking out 2/3rds of the 19K AH from last night.

     

    HardToLove
    4 Apr 2012, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (523) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » ------------------
    This way to the next concentrator and an excellent Weighted Moving Average Price and Volume chart provided by JP.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    ----------------------...
    4 Apr 2012, 09:39 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (3121) | Send Message
     
    I like the table in this article. Are more technical specifications available? Specifically, charging voltages and protocols, maximum charging voltage, discharge capacity at C20, C40 and C1 rates, charging temperature parameters, voltage over capacity tables, etc.
    4 Apr 2012, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    Rick, the only actual specifications that I have been able to find was published on Rosewater's web site. It is very limited and not from Axion...

     

    http://bit.ly/vbHfBB
    4 Apr 2012, 11:52 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (247) | Send Message
     
    Rick you might try the following article by JP that has links to a white paper by Axion (it's also on the Axion website) and the BMW/Axion presentation from where the information for the graph was taken.

     

    http://bit.ly/I17KZw
    4 Apr 2012, 11:08 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The Ford BMW and BMW-Axion presentations from ELBC are here:

     

    http://bit.ly/mVBVM4
    http://bit.ly/oIU19K
    4 Apr 2012, 11:20 AM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    Rick, there is good technical information in the graphs contained in the presentations at the ELBC sited by John, above.

     

    The Ford BMW and BMW-Axion presentations from ELBC are here:
    http://bit.ly/mVBVM4
    http://bit.ly/oIU19K

     

    The cell series resistance over the full SOC graph is very interesting. I just wish it had specific information on the gross surface area and mass of the electrodes. But they obviously weren't ready to publish such details.
    I assumed a 1kWhr battery for my examination, but that is probably high.
    4 Apr 2012, 01:23 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The surface area on the carbon electrodes in a PbC is immense. As I recall the carbon is on the order of 1500 sq. meters per gram and a back of the napkin calculation I did once suggested that there were probably 5 or 6 ounces of carbon in an electrode set. If you tally 6*28*1500 it works out to 252,000 square meters, or about 62 acres.
    4 Apr 2012, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    John: I meant "gross area" as in "the area you get if you use a ruler and your eye". Activated carbon Interior pore surface is, as you say, very large.
    4 Apr 2012, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    It varies with battery size, but electrode plates are typically in the 6.5" x 7.5" range and loading of 4 to 5 electrode pairs per cell is not uncommon. They're ballpark figures, but probably good enough for your napkin. If you really want to dig down into details, a complete list of dimensions on standard BCI case sizes is here – http://bit.ly/Hf3iIO plate dimensions are usually very close to the interior dimensions of the case because you don't want them shifting in acceleration, braking, cornering etc.
    4 Apr 2012, 04:22 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2745) | Send Message
     
    This info needs to be recorded in some file called "mechanics of the PbC" or similar. Especially the reference to case sizes. Real numbers make for better "napkin" work :-)

     

    My observation is that most useful designs start out as scribbling on a cheap pad of paper mixed with staring at the wall and occasionally accessing hard data.
    4 Apr 2012, 04:39 PM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (247) | Send Message
     
    correction to above response.
    ......from where the information for the "table" was taken.
    5 Apr 2012, 08:23 AM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (3121) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, everyone.
    4 Apr 2012, 01:58 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    LMFAO
    AY
    YFSCAF
    4 Apr 2012, 11:14 PM Reply Like
  • FocalPoint Analytics
    , contributor
    Comments (6282) | Send Message
     
    LOL Indeed Jon :)
    4 Apr 2012, 11:55 PM Reply Like
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