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  • Axion Power Concentrator 111: June 7, 2012: Axion Confirms 2012 Annual Meeting Of Stockholders 181 comments
    Jun 7, 2012 6:39 AM | about stocks: AXPW

    These instablogs and the people who maintain them have no relationship whatsoever to Axion Power International. To our direct knowledge no person with a current relationship to Axion Power International other than being a shareholder participates in these instablogs.

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    Axion Confirms 2012 Annual Meeting Of Stockholders

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    Axion Power's Weighted Moving Average Price and Volume:

    (updated through close Friday June 1st)

    (click to enlarge)

    Concentrator Comments: 20,000 comments surpassed on June 1st!

    (updated June 1st)

    (click to enlarge)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    LINKS to valuable Axion Power Research and websites:

    The Axion Power Concentrator Web Sites created by APC commentator Bangwhiz it is a complete easy-to-use online archive of all the information contained in the entire Axion Power Concentrator series from day one; including reports, articles, comments and posted links.

    Axion Power Wikispaces Web Site, created by APC commentator WDD. It is an excellent ongoing notebook aggregation of Axion Power facts.

    Axion Power Website, the first place any prospective investor should go and thoroughly explore with all SEC filings and investor presentations as well as past and present Press Releases.

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    Enjoy!

    Disclosure: I am long OTCQB:AXPW.

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Comments (181)
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  • Interesting concept from the Technology Quarterly piece in this weeks edition of the Economist.

     

    Wooden Batteries

     

    http://econ.st/Mpzq9m
    7 Jun 2012, 09:46 AM Reply Like
  • Articula,
    Interesting article. I noted that they didn't mention what the electrolyte would be in such a battery and how the wood polymer cathode would hold up in it. I have a feeling they won't be using sulfuric acid.
    7 Jun 2012, 10:15 AM Reply Like
  • For the last few months I've been on the distribution list for auto analyst reports out of Bernstein Research. Today's is a real hoot because they're worried that the German OEMs have been building out the wrong kind of capacity in China. The factories are all built for small and efficient cars, but 26% of BMW's sales last year were SUVs. "While some SUV capacity is going in (X1, Q5, GLK), it's possible that the Germans could be wrong-footed by fast moving Chinese tastes and an even greater swing towards SUVs."
    7 Jun 2012, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • LOL, the Chinese are becoming more American every day...
    7 Jun 2012, 10:29 AM Reply Like
  • I thought that was always the truth about China? Most of the US autos sold over there are SUVs are they not? Of course in a country like China the government could put out an order tomorrow that limits the number of SUVs sold in the country vs smaller, more fuel efficient cars and then it would matter.
    7 Jun 2012, 10:34 AM Reply Like
  • Kind of an interesting article -

     

    Utilities-Honest-Asses...

     

    http://bit.ly/McVhBk

     

    "At the GTM solar summit in Phoenix last week, GTM CEO Scott Clavenna probed planners for insights into the industry’s future."

     

    “If we fast-forward to this conference five years from now," Smith predicted, “half of the agenda is going to be storage.”
    7 Jun 2012, 10:41 AM Reply Like
  • If they take 5 years to focus on storage, it will be another important reason that half the participants today will not be there in 5 years.
    7 Jun 2012, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks Stefan, it was good for me!
    7 Jun 2012, 06:07 PM Reply Like
  • I just made my debut on greentechmedia.

     

    http://bit.ly/MiEyQH

     

    I expect the comments to be largely negative but a few will listen and go Hmmmm.
    7 Jun 2012, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • Congratulations, John!

     

    Another venue to sprout interest in the future of energy storage, and Axion Power.

     

    I did notice about two weeks ago one of your articles getting picked up by Stationary Storage News, too.

     

    Pretty soon, you'll be on some congressional panel!
    7 Jun 2012, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • And the legend of the Tesla Bear and Practicer of Securities Law for Longer than some people have been alive grows wider ...
    7 Jun 2012, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • I'd certainly rather take my guidance from a 22 year old liberal arts graduate than a crusty old CPA and lawyer who finished his first IPO about the time the youngster's daddy got to a happy ending.
    7 Jun 2012, 10:54 AM Reply Like
  • John, Don't mince words. What do you really mean? lol
    7 Jun 2012, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • It takes people a while to realize that they have been tricked into a belief that e- cars are ready to save the world. The way I see it is that JP's articles help to attenuate the hype. The larger the hype, the greater the backlash. We experiences a backlash here a few weeks ago when there was the expectation of a dramatic price pop that did not occur.

     

    I'd rather buy a un-subsidized Volt than a Lexus, but with the understanding that both are wants and not needs.

     

    PHEV and EV's are in the Conspicuous Environmental phase. At some point if the "More Environmentally Friendly than Thou" crowd feels foolish, the backlash could spillover and slow down progress on economically viable fuel efficiency progression.
    7 Jun 2012, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • John,
    You have to remember the first comment that he made was that he was going into his investment in Tesla with an amount of funds that he wasn't worried if he lost it all. I was kind of the same way when I first invested in ALTI. I wanted the technology to succeed and making a profit on it would be nice too. As we grow older we have different requirements for our investments and different levels of acceptable loss.
    7 Jun 2012, 11:30 AM Reply Like
  • "As we grow older we have different requirements for our investments and different levels of acceptable loss."

     

    And that is when we graduate from the John Lennon School of Investing.
    7 Jun 2012, 11:34 AM Reply Like
  • The quarterly data I used for the graph and studied before writing the article is really pretty ugly. If anybody's interested in digging into my spreadsheets you can download a copy here:

     

    http://bit.ly/LvyuU8
    7 Jun 2012, 12:03 PM Reply Like
  • John...inquisitive minds will want to know...I suspect more will learn than emotionally criticize.
    7 Jun 2012, 10:33 PM Reply Like
  • I haven't offered that link to the unwashed masses. I reserve that kind of material for people who might take the time to read, study and think.
    8 Jun 2012, 12:20 AM Reply Like
  • Just moving INDelco's comments about fleet testing to the new concentrator so they don't get loss from the last one. Does give a lot of understanding to the comments by TG about the auto OEMs and their definition of "fast tracking".

     

    "anthlj,

     

    It would depend on how things went in their prior testing and what their future business plans are. Given they are currently using AGM for SS I would expect them to have an active program testing improved batteries in this area for future programs and to back feed improvements into their service organization if they deem it necessary.

     

    I would expect that if they are moving the PBC battery into fleet testing they would also be moving alternatives as well if they have future platform needs at this level. Why alternatives? Well, automakers don't like single sources for their components for many reasons. Also, lets face it, there is risk in Axion's ability to transition to becoming an automotive supplier. I happen not to think they would be welcomed as a tier one supplier and as such they need to have a larger partner to manage all the risks associated with supplying the industry.

     

    How many alternatives would they mover forward with? Not one, but after that it's hard to say. It really depends on their platform needs and how their lab testing has gone. If I was to venture a guess I'd say PBC, Ultrabattery, AGM w/ carbon, lithium ion and maybe Powergenix. I say Powergenix because they have Chinese operations as well. Perhaps they have platform test openings to assess that there. Auto companies like to localize suppliers to manage logistics costs and reduce geopolitical risks.

     

    As I kind of indicated all these options might not be tested in the same vehicles. It's possible that they could be tested in different vehicles based on the needs of the target market of the vehicle and even possibly based on the different geographic or regulatory markets they are going into. An American expects much different things from his/her vehicle than a European or a Chinese or.... So do the various regulatory bodies.

     

    So as you can see it's hard to nail down exactly because their future business plans are extensive based on their scale and future corporate business strategy. "
    7 Jun 2012, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • I just wanted to add one point to the purpose of why companies do fleet testing. Prior to fleet testing the experts have already via lab testing and testing in proving grounds (including hot and cold weather extremes) done every test they can imagine, via the inputs of the experts, to stress the components and systems in every way imaginable. Once a new component/system makes it through all the prior testing fleet testing is really another line of defense to put the component/system in a harsh accelerated real world environment to make sure that the experts didn't miss anything or that there are no unforeseen interactions that occur with auxiliary systems that were not foreseen in the prior testing. It's one more safeguard before possible large scale deployment but you can bet they have already beat the living S--t out of the component/system before it makes it to this level.
    7 Jun 2012, 11:42 AM Reply Like
  • I always figured the automakers were just accepting the reality that there's no such thing as an idiot proof system with so many determined idiots running around, both in and out of government.
    7 Jun 2012, 12:05 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco, thanks for lending your perspective on "fleet testing."

     

    I could easily be mistaken, but it seems to me the number of vehicles involved in "fleet testing" PbC supported S/S systems would likely exceed a few dozen since multiple "new" devices would be involved. Further, a significant part of the potential benefit of using PbC appears to lie in the greater temperature range over which the S/S system could reliably function, implying testing of statistically significant numbers of vehicles in multiple geographic locations/regions.
    7 Jun 2012, 12:30 PM Reply Like
  • Nope. They have to try to foresee what the idiots might do and make sure that any dumb thing they do is not looked upon as a manufacturer liability.

     

    You can supply them the rope but if you tied the noose then there is a higher probability of liability.

     

    The other thing that made it worse and I know I don't have to tell you this. But for other interested parties. For years all the companies being sued would look at what their legal and public relations costs would be and they would just throw in some lesser amount of money to make the litigating party go away. So instead of developing a system of right and wrong we developed a system that was geared more toward cost control. Then the manufacturers just spread this cost into the cost of doing business and we're all paying for "The Idiots".
    7 Jun 2012, 12:36 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv, I could easily see fleet sizes running into the "few dozen" as well. I'd expect them to run fleets in two or three different geographic locations. All just directional thoughts with no particular backing other than thinking about what different climate or use patterns might deliver in the way of variables.
    7 Jun 2012, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • There were a couple Stormer papers in the Journal of Power sources that described early BMW fleet tests of stop-start with flooded and AGM batteries in Munich. One was a fleet of police cruisers and the other was a fleet of airport shuttle limousines. Both offered all the benefits of centralized maintenance and daily monitoring. I only have a published draft of the article, but here it is if you're interested.

     

    http://bit.ly/KltmQb
    7 Jun 2012, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • Can you say it any clearer than this:

     

    "Anyway, the FOT (field operation test) demonstrates the unsuitability of flooded batteries for the MHPS (micro-hybrid power system) because of high early capacity loss due to acid stratification and because of vanishing cranking performance due to increasing internal resistance. Furthermore, the lack of dynamic charge acceptance for high energy regeneration efficiency is illustrated. Under the presented FOT conditions charge acceptance of lead-acid (LA) batteries decreases to less than one third for about half of the sample batteries compared to new battery condition."

     

    And this is from 2009. No wonder they showed up on Axion's doorstep.
    7 Jun 2012, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • Oh ya, I forgot about that part.
    7 Jun 2012, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • Granted they are specifically talking about normal LA batteries in the statement, but even the AGM batteries lost 15% charge acceptance in 6 months.
    The report does give some time frame for FOT, considering they saw 6 months as a minimal amount of time to get data in, but would have preferred to collect the data over the total life of the battery.
    7 Jun 2012, 05:19 PM Reply Like
  • John, Thanks for the paper.

     

    Not done fully digesting it but I did note that the BMS is doing a "refresh" or battery maintenance operation on the battery periodically. I was thinking that might be the case. This, of coarse, disables the SS function as the battery needs to be charged to a higher level.

     

    It's nice to be able to dig in at a deeper level to see what's really going on. This could be why the people on the SS discussion web sites that are paying close attention to the SS function are wondering at times why it's not functioning. Need to see if anything in the paper calls out the frequency of this maintenance operation.

     

    Anyway, Goof stuff.
    8 Jun 2012, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • IINDelco,
    Another question I have about fleet testing is, "where do they get the cars?" I assume companies like BMW have production facilities that are used just to produce concept cars and test various new parts, but are these full lines with large scale production capabilities or are fleet testing cars basically "hand made"? Once everything checks out, any idea how long it takes to retool a full scale production line to produce an auto for the general public?
    Questions...questions.... :-)
    7 Jun 2012, 12:00 PM Reply Like
  • Labtech, In most instances they are existing vehicles that are modified to accept the new components/systems. Obviously for competitive reasons they want them to blend in and not be recognized.

     

    How long it takes to retool the production facility depends on many factors such as how extensive the change over from model old to model new is. Could be simple like new headlights and taillights or other superficial things. Could be on the same platform and just revised sheet metal. Could be just an additional engine package.

     

    All these factors will drive how complex and time consuming the change over is. It could be anywhere from a running change where old and new are running down the line with a one vehicle gap to months to tear out the old and bring in the new with a re-balance of the sequence of assembly. Oh and since some lines run multiple models the changes might happen while the line is running or during brief shut downs like during lunch or holidays.( For years I never got a holiday off and you'd work far harder than "Normal" work days.)

     

    All this is of coarse on the OEM side.

     

    On the supplier side there are also considerations. In the case of Axion they are not even certified as an automotive supplier so there are significant steps to be made on their part as well as any suppliers and subsequent battery manufacturers. If they are in the process it would all be laid out on a timeline with program launch teams assembled with progress meetings with the OEM.

     

    Sorry, every program is unique but similar to others on average.
    7 Jun 2012, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • Updating the Axion Power Concentrator 3 month and all time custom search engine URLs has become a daily chore. Not bitching, just an observation.
    7 Jun 2012, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • I can appreciate that, bang. Try running these blogs for over 8 months by yourself, reading every link to make sure someone wasn't posting BS. And then, of course, having the trolls surface at 3AM, 6PM, 10PM, 1AM, weekends, holidays, etc., and then having to reread all relative comments and figure out which ones to delete.

     

    It was an hourly chore, sometimes a minute by minute battle.

     

    I have already recieved more plaudits than deserved...and boy do I ever appreciate the new Hosts, especially when I have a party to throw this weekend, and an out-of-town friend visiting for the next ten days.

     

    No comments, JP!
    7 Jun 2012, 01:00 PM Reply Like
  • My lips are sealed and I hope yours won't be.
    7 Jun 2012, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • With all JP's articles, trolls and followers I don't know how he even has time to eat responding to the crowds. Maybe JP could contract out old articles with canned responses. Let's see? Here's a few:

     

    Response No. 1: Good luck with your investments.
    Response No. 2: I could explain it to you, but I could never understand it for you
    Response No. 3: Investors who refuse to learn from the experience of others have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
    Response No. 4: Please feel free to ignore my work. I promise I won't feel slighted.
    Response No. 5 I can only share my knowledge and experience. What you do with that information is your business.

     

    My personal favorite is "If we had some eggs we could have ham and eggs, if we had some ham." I know Groucho said it first, but I heard it from JP and I love it.
    7 Jun 2012, 05:39 PM Reply Like
  • bang, Nice! lol
    7 Jun 2012, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • Yes! Its like the wacky (but somehow wonderful) short order cooks use in places like Waffle House.

     

    Depending on how the inevitable evangelical falls on the menu, they will be "smothered" (Good luck with x), "scattered" (I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you), or "covered" (We are talking about investments, not a consumer choice). The really determined will be "scattered and smothered"...

     

    Makes me hungry...
    7 Jun 2012, 05:54 PM Reply Like
  • Let's think of some more for JP.

     

    Coming from someone who is always wrong, your consistency is admirable.

     

    Sounds like you're someone who would invest in zero-coupon perpetuals.

     

    I never argue with someone who is unarmed, much less deaf, blind and headless.

     

    With horse sense like that, I can see why you're headed for the Bankruptcy Hall of Fame.

     

    http://bit.ly/Lgzlaw

     

    Your momma _________ ____ _________.
    7 Jun 2012, 07:12 PM Reply Like
  • I'm sorry, I guess I can't fix stupid ...
    7 Jun 2012, 09:32 PM Reply Like
  • Same topic: new leader in "2012 Rain Man Comment of the Year" from Mr. Petersen's Tesla article today. This guy is definitely not wearing his own underwear:

     

    "It is always suspicious when someone is trying to hide personal feelings behind scientific facts..."

     

    Anybody else, troll or axionista, not sure of Mr. Petersen's feelings about EV's? Quick, show of hands! - Bang, thx for your efforts.
    7 Jun 2012, 10:02 PM Reply Like
  • That is possibly one of the funniest things I have ever heard. It is so entertaining I might have to go and "like" it, to encourage the commentator to keep writing.
    7 Jun 2012, 10:14 PM Reply Like
  • I missed that line. I may have to go back and give the commenter a special gold star.

     

    The thing that tickles me most about the way comments have changed over the last year is that EVangelicals don't even try to argue with me when I point out that EVs:

     

    * cannot significantly impact national oil consumption;
    * cannot significantly impact CO2 emissions;
    * cannot be implemented at relevant scale;
    * cannot get significantly better in less than a decade; and
    * cannot get significantly cheaper from *economies of scale.*

     

    They're literally defending Tesla as a luxury car maker that's serving an important upscale market.
    8 Jun 2012, 12:28 AM Reply Like
  • it's a victory John. they've retreated to the only defensible position. of course, when you leave the dogma gets back into the room.
    8 Jun 2012, 12:31 AM Reply Like
  • A friend just sent a great link from Design News:

     

    "China's Electric Cars No Better Than Ours"

     

    http://bit.ly/LxUREk
    7 Jun 2012, 12:30 PM Reply Like
  • JP, you have been plagiarized. The article is full of familiar sound bytes.
    "Developers have yet to achieve breakthroughs"
    "...there is no Moore's Law of electric cars"
    "..expect huge lithium-ion battery gluts.."
    "..investments in basic and applied battery research might be wiser than funding commercial products."
    "If you can't build a battery that's remotely competitive with gasoline ...",
    7 Jun 2012, 04:17 PM Reply Like
  • That's the problem with this darned blogging business, you can't copyright objective truth.
    7 Jun 2012, 04:25 PM Reply Like
  • Maybe that's why everyone prices it way too low! ;)
    7 Jun 2012, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • Just in case anyone missed it yesterday. JCI is building an new battery plant in China that, among other things, will be geared towards producing batteries for Start-stop vehicles.

     

    http://yhoo.it/LvJoJm
    7 Jun 2012, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • Holy cow! Volume is only 12,390.

     

    I'm loving this inactivity. AXPW has duped me more times than I can count, but usually, this kind of "recess" preceeds a price movement one way or the other.

     

    I still believe that every day that passes takes us one more day to a pop that will have us all honking and gabbing like a flock of geese at sunset.
    7 Jun 2012, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • Good imagery there, Maya.
    7 Jun 2012, 01:13 PM Reply Like
  • The word of that day will most likely be WTF
    7 Jun 2012, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • ...and the phrase of the day will most likely be "I wish I had bought more at .35."
    7 Jun 2012, 01:40 PM Reply Like
  • my offer of .345 for 25k went unfilled so take that for what it's worth. i can't imagine pricing remaining this tight for long.
    7 Jun 2012, 04:02 PM Reply Like
  • In medicine "fleet testing" is called "FDA drug approval".
    7 Jun 2012, 03:09 PM Reply Like
  • Not always.

     

    http://bit.ly/KB1lsy
    7 Jun 2012, 03:39 PM Reply Like
  • Actually, would be closer to phase III trials where they show if there is real efficacy or not.
    7 Jun 2012, 05:21 PM Reply Like
  • I guess this is a good article for a day like today. Looks like the.......ZZzzzZzzzZZZ.

     

    Trains of the future may run on steam

     

    http://bit.ly/KlNFNn
    7 Jun 2012, 03:13 PM Reply Like
  • http://bit.ly/NPj7Wz

     

    Exide's release... at first glance, not horrible?
    7 Jun 2012, 05:08 PM Reply Like
  • Basically a break even year if you net out the one-off tax benefit. It will be interesting to hear the CC tomorrow.
    7 Jun 2012, 05:13 PM Reply Like
  • Well, given that the stock seems perennially priced like they live right at the corner of BK and Dire, maybe this will quiet some nerves...
    7 Jun 2012, 05:18 PM Reply Like
  • They're nowhere near that intersection, but they do seem to be going through some wiggles of ineptitude.
    7 Jun 2012, 05:27 PM Reply Like
  • As a holder, I certainly agree as to their address, but as to their stewardship, I want to cut them at least some leeway---I think they are in a time, place, and business being buffeted for a while now by a whole lot of disparate forces.

     

    That said, there does seem room for them to class up their act...
    7 Jun 2012, 05:34 PM Reply Like
  • On the other hand, if their act was all classed up they wouldn't be available at a 50% discount to book and 6% of sales.
    7 Jun 2012, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • It has been a chronic condition for a while JP. My guess is they have a lot of managers at every level going through the same motions they've been going through for the past 5-10 years. Something like hardening of the arteries. I would guess they need a new bulldozer versus a new broom.
    7 Jun 2012, 05:51 PM Reply Like
  • Indeed not. ;) Thus the question: Can polishing what only looks like a turd, if done long enough, really (sometimes) yield a diamond?
    7 Jun 2012, 05:52 PM Reply Like
  • What was that saying, something about it being better to buy a great company at a fair price than a fair company at a great price?
    7 Jun 2012, 07:04 PM Reply Like
  • I think the executive changes a couple years ago were a mistake. O'Leary was the heir apparent and he got passed over for an outsider who apparently didn't have the skills needed to lead a battery company forward.
    8 Jun 2012, 12:30 AM Reply Like
  • > 481' -- Certainly looks better than last years.

     

    "Operating income was $15.9 million versus $9.3 million in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2011;

     

    Net loss was $2.7 million or ($0.03) per share as compared to the prior year period net loss of $13.7 million or ($0.18) per share; and

     

    Free cash flow generation was approximately $55.7 million compared to a use of cash of ($14.7 million) in the prior year period."
    7 Jun 2012, 05:18 PM Reply Like
  • Also... looks like OE ticking up for them a bit..... cue the jaws theme... Look! What's that on the horizon? Could it be at last? The great SS/AGM Big Kahuna wave just on the edge of the horizon!? Paddle!, Paddle!
    7 Jun 2012, 05:25 PM Reply Like
  • Anyone see anything in the aftermarket trading?
    7 Jun 2012, 05:26 PM Reply Like
  • Off 15 cents is what I've read. But curiously,all the news verbiage is saying "revenues flat" but in my simple book 782 million vs 750 (expected, previous was 775) is more like a +4% beat of the estimate ... So I don't know what gives. I think as it is digested further, the view may turn more positive...
    7 Jun 2012, 05:44 PM Reply Like
  • >481086 ... I don't think slighting the reporting of a down-&-out company in a sector that is not growing (add a sector NO ONE cares about) as anything unusual. I've read a few analysts don't expect any growth at all in Exide for the next year.
    7 Jun 2012, 07:03 PM Reply Like
  • Articula: Mixed - no strong trend. As low as $2,27 and as high as $2.45. Most seem to be in the low $2.4x area though.

     

    Not much volume.

     

    HardToLove
    7 Jun 2012, 05:51 PM Reply Like
  • The Chevy Volt holdin a little more charge.

     

    SMoore's Law. Definition, Not great strides but some more.

     

    Or Is that melted chocolate and fluff on a cracker?

     

    http://aol.it/LBxR9l
    7 Jun 2012, 05:53 PM Reply Like
  • I love the advertisement. It claims that you will save $6,850 over five years as compared to the "average" new vehicle. Of course that "average" new vehicle runs the gambit from compact car to light truck. Considering that the Volt is a compact size car, the actual saving would probably be closer to $4,000 in five years at best.
    7 Jun 2012, 10:41 PM Reply Like
  • I think it's funny as hell.

     

    After launching the Volt in January 2011 GM is trumpeting the fact that it's 2013 models will cram 16.5 kWh into a space that once accommodated a mere 16 kWh. My calculator says that's a 3% energy density improvement in just two years.

     

    Happy days are here again.

     

    The problem, of course, is that this big news would make for the shortest article in history.
    8 Jun 2012, 12:39 AM Reply Like
  • Those are probably not improvements as such, but corrections of initial design defects.

     

    When nobody is watching, look for the recall of the early editions...
    8 Jun 2012, 07:12 AM Reply Like
  • (AXPW) EOD Summary: Phhht!

     

    Details, as if the matter with 13.8K shares traded ...

     

    # Trds: 12, MinTrSz: 300, MaxTrSz: 4400, Vol 13803, AvTrSz: 1150
    Min. Pr: 0.3421, Max Pr: 0.3500, VW Avg. Trade Pr: 0.3477
    # Buys, Shares: 9 10503, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.3495
    # Sells, Shares: 3 3300, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.3421
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 3.18:1, DlyShts 1900, 13.8%

     

    HardToLove
    7 Jun 2012, 06:42 PM Reply Like
  • A couple of spit wads thrown at the 0.35 USD ceiling and some Axionista mud wrestling for penny parts. How's that for stimulating?

     

    We need a piece of news before we all end up like Rip Van Winkle.

     

    Kinda threw us for a little loop that extra cup of java TG must have had before the EOY CC. Maybe an extra lump of sugar in it as well.
    7 Jun 2012, 06:56 PM Reply Like
  • John, Wasn't looking for this but bumped into it and thought you might be interested.

     

    "Landisville's Electron Energy Corp. researches cutting-edge rare earth element recycling"

     

    http://bit.ly/MrneVo
    7 Jun 2012, 08:45 PM Reply Like
  • Wow, they gave them a whole $80,000 grant. That's about enough to pay for one higher level researcher or a couple of lower level post-docs. With all the money they are throwing at building batteries and rare earth electronics you would think our government could afford a little more for research on how to recycle them.
    7 Jun 2012, 10:48 PM Reply Like
  • LT, that would make sense. so seems unlikely.
    8 Jun 2012, 12:25 AM Reply Like
  • Its a rounding error. It was supposed to be $8000. Those are "bullet entries" to cover tough topics which even they know are unlikely to produce anything within the time horizon needed to forward the underlying political agenda. If asked they can truthfully say that they "...funded multiple recycling initiatives..."
    8 Jun 2012, 07:15 AM Reply Like
  • Any of you remember the old book (and very enjoyable film), "The Mouse on the Moon?" tripleblack's "rounding error" reminds me of how they asked for a half-million dollar loan to build a moon rocket (and install indoor plumbing) and ended up with a million dollar gift that funded an actual moon rocket by accident (incidentally, powered by a particular vintage of local wine)...

     

    Great cold-war satire!
    8 Jun 2012, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • A tail end clip from the movie. Pretty well done.

     

    http://bit.ly/Kp6mQn
    8 Jun 2012, 02:43 PM Reply Like
  • Ah, it stops JUST before you find out that the Americans and Russians can't take off and have to travel back in the Fenwickian capsule...
    9 Jun 2012, 10:17 AM Reply Like
  • I feel the myth of electric cars benefit is starting to go mainstream.

     

    http://yhoo.it/MfiQcN
    7 Jun 2012, 10:10 PM Reply Like
  • Articula > "... myth of electric cars benefit is starting to go mainstream."

     

    Perhaps. But I'm not so sure people are as ignorant of electric power pricing as implied by the referenced article (and others like it). Mine is not the brightest lamp in the room and even I comprehend pricing of electric power is a moving target at the moment and will remain so for some time.

     

    For example, in the past my power provider (BGE) has charged less per kilowatt to residential customers using small amounts of power per month and higher rates for those using more. Average cost per kilowatt hour this year remains to be determined. BGE fixed monthly charges for power delivery services have increased but I opted to purchase power from an alternative source at a fixed price that is lower than BGE's lowest rate. Additional escalation of BGE fixed charges in each of the next three years are already assured.

     

    Meanwhile, gasoline prices are declining. Better mileage/lower CO2 emission mandates on new autos, trucks, locomotives, aircraft, etc. in North America and Western Europe can be expected to lessen future oil demand growth (if not absolute demand levels). Oil production in newly developing fields around the globe (including in the US) is rising along with production of biofuels. Vehicles powered with alternative fuels are proliferating. Absent political/military conflict (or eminent threat thereof) disrupting oil flows out of the Arabian/Persian Gulf region in the next few years, return of oil prices to $110 or more per barrel strikes me as unlikely.

     

    :-) Of course, I could be as wrong on oil prices as I was in buying AXPW too early.
    7 Jun 2012, 11:11 PM Reply Like
  • Credit Suisse Initiates Coverage on Exide Technologies (XIDE)
    Posted by Tammy Falkenburg on Jun 7th, 2012 // No Comments

     

    Investment analysts at Credit Suisse assumed coverage on shares of Exide Technologies (NASDAQ: XIDE) in a note issued to investors on Thursday. The firm set an “outperform” rating on the stock.

     

    The analysts wrote, “Given the higher share of unorganised players in the high-margin replacement segment, Exide should benefit greatly from a shift towards organised players. Key drivers are: (1) more technologically advanced vehicles demanding higher-quality batteries; (2) higher collection of batteries by organised players, starving the unorganised ones of their key raw material components”

     

    It caught my attention the following:
    "More technologically advanced vehicles demanding higher-quality batteries".
    Have a great day all.
    Carlos.
    8 Jun 2012, 06:38 AM Reply Like
  • Credit Suisse might be confusing re-organized with organized
    8 Jun 2012, 09:42 AM Reply Like
  • Coming Sunday to an SA Near You;

     

    "Why Range Anxiety is the Mortal Enemy of EV Efficiency"

     

    For those who are curious about why I've been far more prolific than usual over the last week the answer is simple. My wife's out of town on a road show for her new company and I'm all alone and bored.

     

    Any article suggestions you guys may have will be appreciated.
    8 Jun 2012, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • I've love to see a one on one camparo between various EVs and the most efficient eurospec ICE's. I have been hearing amazing stories about the new crop of diesels in Europe getting 75-80mpg+ (and of course the cars cost about half the price of an EV).

     

    If the idea is to hit 50mpg and prove something...
    8 Jun 2012, 10:01 AM Reply Like
  • It might be fun to duplicate the UCS emissions graph and then add data points for the BMW 116d, the VW Jetta, the Honda CNG Civic and some of the other fuel efficient offerings, but that gets me away from the battery industry and I'm not sure I want to go there. Every orthodontist knows you don't want to an opportunity to increase the pressure a little.
    8 Jun 2012, 10:15 AM Reply Like
  • I really liked a comment a poster had a few APC's ago about Lithium batteries being the "in" thing. I'm not sure how you could shape an article around it, but is there a way to show that lead-acid while traditional is relevant and in fact making a comeback?
    8 Jun 2012, 10:22 AM Reply Like
  • I'd start with the concept of cars as fashion. Regular Cramer listeners may recall his realization that ipods left the technology realm and became fashion when his kids needed more than one color. Lion cars have not made it to that point.

     

    There is also fashion among technologists. Part of it is fear of becoming obsolete yourself. The mantra is this: Whenever a new technology comes along, either you're part of the steamroller or you're part of the road.
    8 Jun 2012, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • I would like to see an examination of how different battery type makers use tricky graphs and "selection and exclusion" of certain information to make their chemistry/technology look "better than the rest".

     

    I recently looked at a blurb on NiZn batteries and their power/weight comparison to other technologies. Given the ways "power" can be measured, that seems an area asking for "graphical abuse".

     

    I did notice they ignored PbC technology in their Power comparisons. Then again, it isn't publicized by Axion in precise numbers, for reasons we have discussed.

     

    Measuring total energy in a cell is also a malleable number, highly subject to "specification-ism".

     

    And how about series impedance as a function of discharge rate? That is, round trip efficiency as a function of power rate. Almost never discussed.
    8 Jun 2012, 01:35 PM Reply Like
  • ... and never understood when it is discussed.
    8 Jun 2012, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • Just like parasitic losses, as in Tesla: 150 watts just to keep it charged, whether you drive it or not. Not discussed, and definitely not understood, until you have a $40,000 brick.
    8 Jun 2012, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • >JP: Yeah, well, there is that.......SIGH!
    8 Jun 2012, 02:57 PM Reply Like
  • I have to say that I'm deeply and profoundly flattered that you thought a discussion of "series impedance as a function of discharge rate or round trip efficiency as a function of power rate" might be within my level of competence. I promise, I'm nowhere near that good. That's why I love to have friends who are smarter than me.

     

    I can spot Killacycle's BS from a mile away, but you could probably blow sunshine up my skirt for hours without me catching on.
    8 Jun 2012, 03:08 PM Reply Like
  • AABC Europe

     

    AABTAM Symposium
    Advanced Automotive Battery Technology, Application and Market
    Wednesday, June 20 to Friday June 22, 2012

     

    Session 2:
    Energy Storage for Micro-Hybrids
    Thursday June 21, 9:00

     

    http://bit.ly/LDt6Mr

     

    Check out the abstracts ...
    8 Jun 2012, 10:52 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting that there was no mention of lead/carbon within the abstracts ...
    8 Jun 2012, 11:10 AM Reply Like
  • Since I'm on the editorial staff of Batteries International, an AABC media partner, I'll have full access to the abstracts.
    8 Jun 2012, 11:22 AM Reply Like
  • "Illustrative examples of increasing demands regarding Dynamic Charge Acceptance (DCA) will be shown, including test results for various lead/acid based battery technologies."

     

    Since it would seem that Axion wasn't invited to the party, it will be interesting to see if the Ford rep mentions PbC in this part of his presentation.
    8 Jun 2012, 11:32 AM Reply Like
  • If I recall correctly, didn't someone say this conference was normally a Li-ion love fest?
    8 Jun 2012, 11:35 AM Reply Like
  • It is primarily a lithium-ion love fest, but this particular segment is all about here and now instead of somewhere over the rainbow.

     

    I'm checking to see if I can get a press pass for the 21st and think it might be worth a trip North since I can't go as far west as I'd like.
    8 Jun 2012, 11:39 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks WTB.

     

    "Generator and storage system in mainstream microhybrids will continue to operate on the established 14 V standard for at least one more generation of vehicle programs."

     

    A bit disappointing but what is a "generation"?

     

    "As an approach, future upper class vehicles are going to be equipped with a new voltage level of 48V – providing a power increase by a factor of 4 to 5 compared to today’s 12V power supply systems."

     

    Hopefully the upper class will see the value of the 48v PbC..
    8 Jun 2012, 11:40 AM Reply Like
  • So if 48V were to be "mainstreamed," what "form factor" would likely be used? String?

     

    How are JCI and Exide likely to react? Push back? Delays?

     

    Will they need much capital expense to meet the potential demand?

     

    My take from some of our recent discussions is that AXPW is unlikely to be an approved auto-supplier, so we're dependent on the auto makers "encouraging" the big boys to provide them a product that uses our components.

     

    12V I take should be relatively simple.
    16V?
    48V?
    8 Jun 2012, 12:33 PM Reply Like
  • The higher voltages are already pretty mainstream in the EV & HEV vehicles and I get the impression the automakers would like everything to go this way when it is economical to do so. I think the SS evolution will provide this.

     

    A string indeed. Most likely 3-4 batteries in series (3x16v). Batteries do not equalize well and battle one another as their resistance levels drift part. The PbC does not have the same affliction and does well in a string configuration.

     

    As I have stated at nausea with the "PbC: King string" thing, I believe when we start looking beyond 12-14v the PbC will take on new meaning...
    8 Jun 2012, 12:56 PM Reply Like
  • So I was listening to the Exide call and the acronym MHF was used a bit.

     

    Is that Micro-Hybrid Flooded, or something else?

     

    Note for example here:
    http://bit.ly/NmDyw4

     

    the mention of "innovative Micro-hybrid Flooded programs for Start/Stop Systems"

     

    So was this the "initial" (failing) solution to Start-Stop?

     

    Single battery "cheap" "solution?"

     

    What's the "innovative" part?

     

    Also surprised by this wording under VLRA (which included an AGM reference) :

     

    "Auxiliary batteries e.g. for Micro- and Full-hybrids"
    8 Jun 2012, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • Speaking of the Exide call, assuming it started on time, it ran nearly 1.5 hours and apparently they cut it off with more questions and questioners still in the queue because they had pressing business to attend to.

     

    I only caught the last 20-25 minutes, so maybe it was becoming repetitive, but there were still market professionals asking questions at the end. It's a shame that when there's real interest in what's happening that management can't plan to "stand and deliver."
    8 Jun 2012, 11:07 AM Reply Like
  • I did not think it "was to be this close," but it appears France is building a nuclear fusion plant (not fision) to be operable by 2020.

     

    http://bit.ly/L41eUm

     

    If this catches on, which if it does work, than the whole nuclear industry will be turned on its head.

     

    Maybe this is the real reason why Germany and Israel are no longer going to be building fision reactors?

     

    Lots of potential permutations going forward....
    8 Jun 2012, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • "...to be operable by 2020."

     

    :)

     

    The French? "International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor"

     

    http://bit.ly/LDkaop
    8 Jun 2012, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • Being built in France.
    8 Jun 2012, 12:33 PM Reply Like
  • I must admit I was surprised when it was announced that the Chinese joined in on the effort.
    8 Jun 2012, 12:34 PM Reply Like
  • Unless there is a new technology I havn't heard of, the fusion reactor will be amazingly expensive for the power level it achieves. I need to read up on what they plan to build.
    8 Jun 2012, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • I've been following fusion power for a couple of decades now and I can only recite what one researcher said... "Nuclear Fusion is the energy of the future... and it always will be."
    8 Jun 2012, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • I'm not at all surprised the Chinese are involved. Afterall, I believe they are currently scheduled to build out 50 nukes. If fusion works, and if it is far safer, I think it's typical Chinese prudence to be all over this amazing, potentially emerging technology.
    8 Jun 2012, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • I've always believed the same about electric cars.
    8 Jun 2012, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • Bylo, I've heard that before!

     

    I had a college professor about 30 years ago that was involved with some of the research at the University of Rochester who was assisting in some of the fusion research at the time. His expertise was in magnetic field theory and they were looking at bumpy toroidal magnetic fields to contain the plasma.

     

    My level of understanding was somewhere just north of you can store it in a steel bucket! :)
    8 Jun 2012, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  • Since I was doing a refresher, Ref. material for anyone that hasn't reviewed this older paper on asymmetric electrochemical supercaps w/ aqueous electrolytes.

     

    http://bit.ly/NmMUYY
    8 Jun 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • "Ref. material for anyone that hasn't reviewed this older paper on asymmetric electrochemical supercaps w/ aqueous electrolytes."

     

    Maybe I've had too many concussions, but I don't even understand the title.
    9 Jun 2012, 07:25 PM Reply Like
  • Metro, lol.

     

    It's long hand for PBC.

     

    "2.3 + PbO2 H2SO4 C - system
    Potentially, this is, probably, one of the best electrochemical systems for asymmetrical supercapacitors, regarding the price/quality ratio."

     

    It goes into some detail leading to conclusions of why you should be so excited to be excited with us. :)
    9 Jun 2012, 08:13 PM Reply Like
  • >Off-Topic ... Isn't this special. China is going to issue "compulsory licenses" so it can "produce generic versions of patented drugs during state emergencies, or unusual circumstances, or in the interests of the public."

     

    http://bit.ly/JSd53Z

     

    Bye-bye IP. I wonder what else will be in the public interest.
    8 Jun 2012, 01:17 PM Reply Like
  • "For "reasons of public health", eligible drug makers can also ask to export these medicines to other countries, including members of the World Trade Organisation."

     

    And you expected what? It's China and any notion of IP is a false one. Well unless it suits them momentarily.

     

    Why do you think they are mandating that parties building EV's there have to share the technology with the JV "partner"?
    8 Jun 2012, 01:39 PM Reply Like
  • For all those internet trolls a Friday song

     

    http://bit.ly/MiCcxy#!
    8 Jun 2012, 02:06 PM Reply Like
  • Articula. What a great song!
    8 Jun 2012, 04:01 PM Reply Like
  • John, Do you know if T-RIC ever did any work with Axion on this proposed pull project?

     

    Axion Power
    Residential energy storage system using a double conversion UPS to enhance power quality and integrate solar/wind energy sources
    8 Jun 2012, 02:28 PM Reply Like
  • I've never heard the name T-RIC, but that doesn't mean much because ideas and discussions didn't come to my attention until somebody needed paper. I was usually kept current on negotiations with recognizable names, because they always wanted paper early in the process, but I tried to stay away from the smaller stuff.
    8 Jun 2012, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • Ok, i have a bet with someone. But i need the experts here....Does it actually help putting small batteries in your freezer??

     

    I am serious. Could cost me dinner and i ain't saying what my answer is..

     

    map
    8 Jun 2012, 03:20 PM Reply Like
  • http://bit.ly/L4UHc6
    8 Jun 2012, 03:31 PM Reply Like
  • Most batteries will store longer if cold.

     

    They put out the most energy if they are warm.

     

    What is your question?
    8 Jun 2012, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • just make sure if you start storing them cold you do so in an airtight container. condensation will mess up results.
    8 Jun 2012, 03:56 PM Reply Like
  • Guys

     

    Thanks for the input. I won my bet.....

     

    Good weekend to all!

     

    Map
    8 Jun 2012, 06:11 PM Reply Like
  • http://bit.ly/MoO70q

     

    Richard Rosey from Axion is on their board.
    8 Jun 2012, 03:23 PM Reply Like
  • Richard was hired after I finished up the Quercus deal and stepped aside as counsel. I met him at Storage Week in 2009 but don't know him well at all.
    8 Jun 2012, 03:45 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks. I was hoping some of the work to support RoseWater's efforts to go into the consumer UPS/solar storage market might have been going on for some time.
    8 Jun 2012, 04:07 PM Reply Like
  • We have a new Axion Power owner in the name of "Osterix!" He posted an interesting theory of how Axion Power is related to the price of oil, in Furist's fine "Risk's of Owning Axion Power," Insta.

     

    I thought it worthy pasting into this APC.

     

    From Osterix:

     

    For me the Axion battery is "deja vu" all over again. In 1972-73 I was living in France when the price of oil spiked because of the 1972 war in Israel. I noticed that small and medium trucks in Europe were using Diesel engines and in the US all such trucks used gasoline engines because there were no light automotive Diesels in the US.

     

    I therefore got the bright idea of bringing light Diesels to America and revolutionizing the light and medium duty truck industry and becoming a multimillionaire in the process. I returned to the US in mid-1973 and spent the next two years trying to raise venture capitol for my light automotive Diesel project. Would it surprise you that my efforts were a total failure. In the process I learned a huge amount about the global automotive industry and the venture capital industry.

     

    In the summer of 2008 when gasoline went over four dollars a gallon, I got in touch with the US Postal Service's engineering department to find out what it was doing with hybrid powertrains for its delivery trucks. For the next year I kept touching base with the USPS project engineer who knew everything in the world about alternative technology powertrains. Thanks to him I became an expert on the subject.

     

    In the summer of 2008 when gasoline went over four dollars a gallon, I got in touch with the US Postal Service's engineering department to find out what it was doing with hybrid powertrains for its delivery trucks. For the next year I kept touching base with the USPS project engineer who knew everything in the world about alternative technology powertrains. Thanks to him I became an expert on the subject.

     

    About 2009 I started following John Petersen's articles. About 99% of what he says reflects my experience and knowledge about introducing a new technology to an existing industry. Progress is glacially slow, if it happens at all. Today in the US, some light duty and many medium duty trucks have Diesel engines. That is after 39 years from the time people like me started to take an interest in Diesel engines for light and medium trucks for the US market.

     

    Reflecting on the future of Axion and its stock price, I have reached the following conclusion. The price of Axion stock is linked to the price of oil. The main reason there was such a slow conversion to Diesel engines in the light/medium truck industry is that adjusted for inflation the price of oil is virtually the same today as it was in 1970. GM tried to rush into Diesel engines for automobiles with the Oldsmobile Diesel which was a technological disaster.

     

    My belief right now is both good news and bad news. I don't think Axion stock will go over one dollar a share until oil is moving consistently towards 200 dollars a barrel and general agreement is that it is a permanent trend, not a temporary spike. Once this happens, there is no limit to what price Axion stock will go to.

     

    My belief right now is both good news and bad news. I don't think Axion stock will go over one dollar a share until oil is moving consistently towards 200 dollars a barrel and general agreement is that it is a permanent trend, not a temporary spike. Once this happens, there is no limit to what price Axion stock will go to.

     

    The stock market is irrational. Consider that the stock of Chipotle Mexican Grill Inc., a Mexican fast food chain, is today $406 a share with a 52 week high of $442. How much Mexican food can Americans stuff in their faces over the next three to five years to justify this high a stock price? Compare this to Axion. Regardless of the level of risk, it is a unique technology that has the potential to revolutionize important sectors of energy using industries

     

    Any sane person who feels like crap shooting is far better off buying a share of Axion at under a dollar than CMG at $406. I consider myself sane, and that is my analysis. As a matter of disclosure I must warn that many people do not consider me completely sane.

     

    Most if not all the commenters who argue with John are truly ignorant. There will never be large numbers of all electric or even hybrid electric automobiles for the reasons John keeps repeating to zero effect. Just one obvious reason is the same as why there are no Diesel powered automobiles built in America today compared to Europe. Diesels for autos make sense when gasoline is seven to eight dollars a gallon. They don't make sense when gasoline is under four dollars a gallon.

     

    The economics of an all electric auto will never make sense. The jury is still out with respect to electric hybrids. The largest selling electric hybrid, the Toyota Prius, uses an NiMH battery if my understanding is correct. Toyota has a lock on both the technology and the rare metals used in their battery. Everyone else has to use Lithium ion based batteries. I first learned about that from the USPS project engineer. He knew all about it.

     

    ####

     

    Welcome, Osterix, to the Axion Power Concentrator!
    8 Jun 2012, 03:28 PM Reply Like
  • Osterix's perspective is an interesting, but unconvincing, read (to me).

     

    Diesel engines of the 1970s were noisy, smelly, and loud compared to U.S. gasoline powered vehicles. Diesel engines remained that way for quite some time and were typically found in this country in agricultural, construction, or industrial application vehicles. That is changing with emergence of much cleaner burning diesel engines, but to some extent NOx emissions remain a concern that helps drive diesel engine costs higher.

     

    EPA emission regulations and desire to conserve some resources for future generations are more likely IMO to maintain automotive trends toward lower fuel consumption than is the price of oil. The price of oil is likely to influence the speed at which vehicle fleets are replaced with more fuel efficient equipment.
    8 Jun 2012, 03:53 PM Reply Like
  • I refer you to the following Wikipedia article: http://bit.ly/JSUHI2

     

    Note: "Production diesel car history started in 1933 [2][3] with the Citroën Rosalie" That was 79 years ago. Today, America is not able to produce a lightweight high speed automotive Diesel as is routinely mass produced in Europe. America is a third world country when it comes to Diesel technology in general.

     

    In the 1970's, Renault was producing four and six cylinder lightweight high speed (4,000 rpm) engines. The six cylinder engine was used in light trucks. The four cylinder was used in cars and smaller light trucks.

     

    The negative features of a Diesel that you cite applied to the standard American Diesel which was a low speed, heavy duty, direct injection engine. Their only on-road application was in heavy trucks.
    8 Jun 2012, 10:29 PM Reply Like
  • Osterix,
    All that may be true, but D-inv comments are still correct. When automotive diesels were introduced in the US they were generally shunned because they were noisy, and their exhaust smelled like rotten eggs. Granted this had far more to do with the high sulfur diesel fuel that was available for them to be run on, but they quickly gained a reputation here in the US that made them unpopular. Also, most gas stations didn't carry diesel fuel. Today, with the fuel efficiency systems being introduced by VW's turbo diesel, and others, and with the availability of low sulfur fuel, diesels are finally catching on here in the US. But they still have a bad reputation to overcome, that was probably not due to engineering, but was perceived as such.
    8 Jun 2012, 10:54 PM Reply Like
  • At one time Mazda and VW both had diesel pick ups (1980s). The Mazda used a perkins oil leaker that ran fine as it leaked. Never heard of any problems with the VW. I am still waiting for a Ranger sized truck with a turbo diesel, S/S would be a nice addition.
    8 Jun 2012, 11:04 PM Reply Like
  • "When automotive diesels were introduced in the US they were generally shunned because they were noisy ..."

     

    IIRC, the reason they flopped here was because the major auto manufacturer(s), specifically GM, tried to go cheap by using thei gasoline engine as a foundation for the diesel. The block wasn't stiff enough, reliabilty was suspect, noise came through the thinner castings like water through a sieve, etc.

     

    They sort of assured their own failure by applying the same principles that caused American car quality generally to suffer during those times.

     

    As to smell, back then couldn't do too much, as you mention.

     

    HardToLove
    9 Jun 2012, 12:48 PM Reply Like
  • I agree with your memory HT. The automobile makers tried to take the easy way out and ruined a potential market. IIRC the compression in a diesel engine is 9 times that of a gasoline engine. They were asking for trouble to put that kind of compression in a gasoline engine design.

     

    My biggest concern with S/S is that the automobile companies are making the same mistake. When the American consumer has a bad experience with battery life in his S/S vehicle, he will be reluctant to try it again.
    9 Jun 2012, 01:15 PM Reply Like
  • The thing is that the customers are not going to have a choice. S-S will just be a part of the vehicles, because it has to be. People might complain now and again but it will be like complaining that your exhaust broke. The better the automaker makes it, the more valuable the car will be.
    9 Jun 2012, 01:24 PM Reply Like
  • People complained about seat belts, positive crankcase ventilation and catalytic converters too. Once the automakers make a decision to comply with regulations, the complaints don't matter.
    9 Jun 2012, 01:31 PM Reply Like
  • GM can still make a mess of it. I remember when seat belts were just being required, and the US manufacturers made them almost unusable. The shoulder belt was a separate strap and was locked into one position. The European cars had single-motion, retractable belts, inertial locking, and spring-loaded clasps. It was years before US seat belts became usable with these features. I have full confidence that the bozos at GM can replicate their failure with s/s.
    9 Jun 2012, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah Rick, A few companies went through a learning curve. During the mandated passive restraint days especially.

     

    http://nyti.ms/JU9mCS

     

    Gm never disappointed in delivering plenty of real "What were they thinking" head scratchers.
    9 Jun 2012, 05:16 PM Reply Like
  • Our old babysitter had a used Mercedes Benz from the 70s that I had to drive a couple of times. The thing had a two part shoulder harness that clasped in the middle or your chest and then you tightened it there. Very uncomfortable and I never felt safe with the thing on me. Glad we've progressed from those days. Also, my mom was in an accident once in our old LTD station wagon. Her head ended up going forward into the door frame. When we asked why the belt didn't lock we were told that it wasn't a requirement of models back then that the shoulder strap locked and stopped you from going forward in an accident. Great design!
    9 Jun 2012, 10:18 PM Reply Like
  • I prefer a 5-point harness with 1/4-turn padded quick-release at the navel. Coupled with a stroking seat, deadfall from 50 ft is walkaway survivable... oh wait.. nevermind.
    9 Jun 2012, 10:39 PM Reply Like
  • Borrowing the first three paras completely from Mayascribe and adding my own last paragraph on future EV safety regulations:

     

    Maybe some hot and sultry day in the distant future, some threadbare panhandler will come up to you in NYC when you're stuck in traffic, and rather than begging to clean your windows, he offers up an impish, toothless smile, and asks, "Need some power?" as he points the grimy plug he's holding toward his little red wagon stacked with batteries.

     

    You look down at his wagon and feel fear leaping through your body, "That's the same brand that blew up in the Holland Tunnel two days ago!" you shriek.

     

    You peel out a $20 bill and tell the panhandler scurry that little red wagon away as quickly as possible.

     

    Nervously remembering again the accident and the many others that have left only a quick charred remains of EV's and their occupants, you visually check your ejection seat status light to make sure it is green and that you are strapped in securely. You make a mental note to manually disengage it in the Holland Tunnel - perhaps what has become the most dangerous and exposed part of your daily commute.
    10 Jun 2012, 02:31 AM Reply Like
  • Well it's a good thing the PBC is in the energy storage market. I do fear that nat gas could "cheapen" energy to the point that the demand for the PBC is lessened. Still, as long as Europe's CAFE standards remain the PBC has a pony in the European OEM race.
    8 Jun 2012, 07:40 PM Reply Like
  • Europe has CO2 rules that are forcing automakers to attain 130 g/km by 2016. The US has CAFE standards that require a fleet wide average of 37.8 mpg for cars and 28.8 mpg for light trucks by 2016. Overall, the EPA expects to bring CO2 emissions for the new car fleet down to 250 grams per mile by the 2016 Model Year.

     

    The fascinating thing about the EU standards is they're based on vehicle weight and assume a 1,372 kg base (±3,000 pounds). If you calculate the EU number for a 4,000 pound vehicle and adjust kilometers to miles you miraculously end up at 250 g/m.

     

    Natural gas fuel systems are actually a bigger threat in Europe than they are in the US because using NG has a big impact on CO2 but almost no impact on miles per gallon fuel economy.
    http://seekingalpha.co...
    http://seekingalpha.co...
    9 Jun 2012, 12:44 AM Reply Like
  • I think one of the positives of start/stop is non-ideological "common sense". Independent of government mandates, most people see that turning off a car when stopped reduces local pollution, noise, and wasted fuel consumption, even if you have 400 ponies under the hood. It is not some "new-fangled" technology that takes away the pleasure of driving or a leftist conspiracy to make people ride bicycles or take public transportation. And it is not expensive.

     

    Unlike "un-American" hybrids (Prius) or EVs (Leaf), it could be part of a Corvette or F-150 and make everyone happy. I just hope the manufacturers aren't stupid and don't include an override switch - sometimes ya gotta rev the engine at a stoplight.
    9 Jun 2012, 08:13 AM Reply Like
  • At least for now, all the European stop-start vehicles have disable switches that automatically reset to a default "on" position when you park the car.
    9 Jun 2012, 09:59 AM Reply Like
  • Articula: NG prices won't stay this low much longer (a year or two maybe?). Just as cure for high price is high price, ditto for low price.

     

    As we speak, the number of new wells being drilled is way down (Baker Hughes NG rig counts way down) and many of the major NG E & P companies are switching to going for NG liquids.

     

    Add to that is increasing usage in many applications. So over time the supply/demand imbalance should back into line and we should see some pricing related to energy content, adjusted for various NG related issues.

     

    The newest fly in the ointment is now the "greens" are absolutely dead set against NG because they fear it will cut into their cherished renewable goals for solar and wind. So they'll be doing their usual to force price higher so that they have a chance to justify their pet projects.

     

    HardToLove
    9 Jun 2012, 12:56 PM Reply Like
  • I had a thought about the lack of a tour of the axion PbC electrode line. If they are working on the carbon sheeting single roll fab process in the new facility they might come out of it with another patent on the fab process for the carbon electrode. I am sure they would want to keep that out of sight. That would be a really nice thing to have to raise the height of the IP fence.
    8 Jun 2012, 10:36 PM Reply Like
  • Certainly no objections here to a higher IP fence. But, at this point I would much rather learn of concrete new PbC sales agreements in some volume and a PowerCube sale or two. The annual meeting will mark seven months since connection of the first PowerCube to the PJM grid. It will also be nearly five months since Vani Dantam joined the firm (January 27). A NSC purchase order was announced April 26 with reference to shipping and deployment of the batteries within 90 - 120 days. It would be nice to learn whether any of the batteries have been shipped to date or whether they will all ship in the third quarter.
    9 Jun 2012, 12:11 AM Reply Like
  • I don't think Vani has been there long enough to have locked down any NEW deals initiated after he got there. Deals that were already in progress could be closed - but I don't think he's been there long enough to pull something brand new out of the bushes.

     

    I've been VP of sales for companies around Axion's size and they usually give you a year to accomplish anything brand new and significant. However, they do start pounding on you a little after 6 months as to what birds in the bush you hope to bag. After 9 months you better have generated a lot of confidence or the last three months of the year might get pulled out from under you.at any moment.

     

    Pretty earlier on you have to start building a pipeline and fleshing out what is in it, your expectations for all leads, their value and their timing. It had also better be growing and positive enough for upper management to keep you the final 6 months. It ain't fun. Been there and succeeded and been there and failed.
    9 Jun 2012, 12:40 AM Reply Like
  • I appreciate hearing of your experience, bangwhiz. That's what I love about this group.

     

    But I feel I should say that every product has a different sales cycle. And given how long BMW has been testing the PbC, we know that its sales cycle is much longer than just 1 year.

     

    So I would hope that the Axion board of directors and its shareholders (vivan los Axionistas!) recognize the length of the sales cycle when evaluating the performance of their VP of Sales.

     

    D
    9 Jun 2012, 01:37 PM Reply Like
  • They understand long sales cycles but they won't excuse you for not bringing home something else in the meantime. You better find the bulldog some food to eat from somewhere.
    9 Jun 2012, 11:04 PM Reply Like
  • In the time frame being discussed I'd be looking for development agreements out of Mr. Dantam. It's hard to sell tech. that's still in the pre-production phase.

     

    Such an agreement with a big fish would be just as good as sales going into the next capital raise. But it would have to have some meat on it. Unfortunately the Exide thing makes the meat point more important.
    9 Jun 2012, 11:35 PM Reply Like
  • TG commented very positively on Mr. Dantam's performance in the last CC. However, we may not see the results of his efforts for many months.
    10 Jun 2012, 02:46 AM Reply Like
  • Yeah, And he was giddy in the EOY cc giving directional guidance on earnings. By the Q1 cc the vermouth bottle once again was left seal intact.

     

    I'll pass on using Mr. Granville's emotions as an indicator in the future. Show me the fax. Just the fax.
    10 Jun 2012, 07:15 AM Reply Like
  • Axion secures another patent for the negative electrode and attached activated carbon sheet.
    http://bit.ly/KGvxma
    9 Jun 2012, 11:20 AM Reply Like
  • That's good news Jveal.

     

    Thanks for the link.

     

    HardToLove
    9 Jun 2012, 01:01 PM Reply Like
  • The research mole gold star for this week goes to jveal.

     

    Way to go man!

     

    This is a critical new patent because it covers the electrode assembly design and, in the process, covers conventional lug and strap casting technology when used in conjunction with a laminated electrode assembly.

     

    The dual nature of the patent is both inclusive and exclusive.

     

    My personal favorite claim is #10 which talks about using a conductive diamond coating on the current collector. In 1992 I was issuer's counsel for Dr. Schmidt's company, SI Diamond technology. He had a fully developed laser ablation process for putting electrically conductive diamond films on non-diamond surfaces. All the underlying patents have expired or are getting ready to expire.
    9 Jun 2012, 01:14 PM Reply Like
  • I suspect DRich will be particularly intrigued by the specificity of the graphene related discussion.
    9 Jun 2012, 01:32 PM Reply Like
  • After reading the patent it's not hard to understand why Axion might not want people going into the electrode plant now that the latest automation for the electrode material is on the floor. The assembly line is one thing but the real process resides in the manufacture of the carbon sheeting.

     

    I don't think they will be going out of their way to define that in a process patent.
    9 Jun 2012, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • Think Coca Cola recipe. Then re-read the application and think about the down offensive linemen on any good ball team that keep everybody away from the QB unless he exposes himself.
    9 Jun 2012, 02:15 PM Reply Like
  • jveal,
    a nice bit of research.
    thanks
    9 Jun 2012, 06:18 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks for all your expressions of gratitude for finding the patent article. I simply did a Google search on a slow weekend and happened to be the first one to find and mention it. I'm glad I could contribute something to the discussion. I gain far more from what each of you share.
    9 Jun 2012, 06:35 PM Reply Like
  • While the AXPW story develops, I thought this analogous to the current AXPW status:
    (from another SA author regarding the bigger economic picture)(substitute storage revolution for economic revolution)

     

    "Furthermore, Trends Magazine states that all economic revolutions go through three phases:

     

    Installation: When an initial boom expands, inevitably leading to a bursting bubble.
    Transition: When disappointed investors revalue the assets of the bubble.
    Deployment: When the dominant technology matures and becomes the foundation for everything else in the economy.
    Trends then goes on to state:

     

    Regardless of how long this third phase lasts, once deployment gets going, it has always ushered in a 'golden age' in which speculation and venture capital give way to an economy driven by real profits. ... We argue that we are now at, or very near, the end of the 'turning point' and poised to enter the 'Golden Age' of deployment for the silicone-based wave."
    9 Jun 2012, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • Seems like the growing patent portfolio will be worth more than our current market cap. Just gotta put that knowledge to work.
    9 Jun 2012, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • Something to laugh:
    Since 2009 I'm getting ahead of three courses: one in English, another batteries and the final of investment (AXPW), so far I winning two and losing one.
    Have a nice week end.
    Carlos.
    9 Jun 2012, 08:12 PM Reply Like
  • Carlos: "final of investment (AXPW), so far I winning two and losing one"

     

    Not losing one - merely experiencing that most accursed affliction of man, "deferred gratification"! :-)

     

    "Good things come to he who waits".

     

    HardToLove
    9 Jun 2012, 08:24 PM Reply Like
  • H.T.:
    Good. I hope so.
    Have a good night.
    9 Jun 2012, 08:50 PM Reply Like
  • "He who waits pays much interest on his dead money" :-)

     

    Actually, given the present return on "safe" investments, I don't have a problem with money parked in Axion stock. Just so it's not dead for years!
    10 Jun 2012, 10:58 PM Reply Like
  • (AXPW) EOD 6/8/2012

     

    Some interesting, to me, activity today. To spare those with no interest I stuck those thoughts in my instablog, http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    # Trds: 28, MinTrSz: 265, MaxTrSz: 25000, Vol 131165, AvTrSz: 4684
    Min. Pr: 0.3240, Max Pr: 0.3500, VW Avg. Trade Pr: 0.3379
    # Buys, Shares: 13 58600, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.3421
    # Sells, Shares: 15 72565, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.3345
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 1:1.24, DlyShts 6000, 4.6%

     

    HardToLove
    9 Jun 2012, 08:31 PM Reply Like
  • Author’s reply » BOTTOM FEEDER'S ALERT:

     

    Very important information provided by JP in the header of the next concentrator.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    10 Jun 2012, 11:28 AM Reply Like
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