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  • Axion Power Concentrator 138: Aug. 15, 2012: Axion Power Reports Second Quarter Results For 2012 225 comments
    Aug 15, 2012 1:44 PM | about stocks: AXPW

    These instablogs and the people who maintain them have no relationship whatsoever to Axion Power International. To our direct knowledge no person with a current relationship to Axion Power International other than being a shareholder participates in these instablogs.

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    Axion Power Reports Second Quarter Results For 2012

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    From Bangwhiz August 2nd...

    Questions For The Axion Power 2nd Quarter Earnings Report and Conference Call

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    Axion Power Weighted Moving Average Prices:

    (updated through close Aug. 10th)

    (click to enlarge)

    Axion Power Moving Average Volume:

    (updated through close Aug. 10th)

    (click to enlarge)

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    Links to valuable Axion Power research and websites:

    The Axion Power Concentrator Web Sites created by APC commentator Bangwhiz it is a complete easy-to-use online archive of all the information contained in the entire Axion Power Concentrator series from day one; including reports, articles, comments and posted links.

    Axion Power Wikispaces Web Site, created by APC commentator WDD. It is an excellent ongoing notebook aggregation of Axion Power facts.

    Axion Power Website, the first place any prospective investor should go and thoroughly explore with all SEC filings and investor presentations as well as past and present Press Releases.

    Axion Power Chart Tracking, HTL tracks AXPW's intra-day charting.

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    WARNING: This is a troll free zone. We reserve the right to eliminate posts, or posters that are disruptive.

    Enjoy!

    Disclosure: I am long OTCQB:AXPW.

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Comments (225)
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  • CO3
    , contributor
    Comments (244) | Send Message
     
    Where's Springer when you need him ...
    15 Aug 2012, 01:47 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1887) | Send Message
     
    That was quick CO3. 1:47 and it shows APH published it at 1:44. We'll see who wins the next round. Springer is falling behind although he has won multiple times.
    15 Aug 2012, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4152) | Send Message
     
    Sorry, I was deep in meditative prayer to the god of inflection points: the letter V

     

    veeeeeeeeeee....
    veeeeeeeeeeeeee....
    veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....
    veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....
    veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
    veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
    veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
    15 Aug 2012, 01:59 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1769) | Send Message
     
    Hey wait!! I'm trying to sell cans of hot air on the previous concentrator! We need to go back!!! :-)
    15 Aug 2012, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4152) | Send Message
     
    there's plenty more hot air here...

     

    Hawaiian Air
    Mardi Gras Air
    Air of Hope
    Air of Speculation
    ...
    15 Aug 2012, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    LabTech, See, Shelf placement IS important! PS, Don't launch your first retail store in the same market you're filling your cans in. With the concentration of blow hards in the market you'll never get a bite.:-{p
    15 Aug 2012, 01:58 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (1986) | Send Message
     
    LabTech,

     

    You are probably going to have a hard time getting your cans past the FDA and DEA.

     

    There are a lot of AirHeads out there.

     

    They will argue that Air should be a controlled substance, for the safety of all us consumers.
    15 Aug 2012, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13386) | Send Message
     
    ...Air of the dog...

     

    No wait, that should be "hair"...
    15 Aug 2012, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • CO3
    , contributor
    Comments (244) | Send Message
     
    Let's not forget the Air of Authority ....
    15 Aug 2012, 02:21 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (1986) | Send Message
     
    I thought you could not sell Air of Authority without a special license from Washington.
    15 Aug 2012, 02:23 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    LabTech: just open the hallway vents and when we get a whiff here, we'll all rush back and buy, just like the 125K shares that went off as buys in the last 45 minutes or so.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Aug 2012, 02:44 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    Reverse engineering the carbon sheeting, from what have heard, would be a mighty difficult problem to tackle.

     

    Then there's testing, which we all know takes years. I'm not too worried about IP theft, or encroachment.

     

    Besides, until we do sell some to the public, the only way for an evil competitor to get hold of a PbC is to break into Axion's Bat Cave.
    15 Aug 2012, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • CO3
    , contributor
    Comments (244) | Send Message
     
    Finally, a comment bringing an "air" of sanity back
    15 Aug 2012, 02:23 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    I'm just glad your handle isn't CO2 ;-)
    15 Aug 2012, 02:26 PM Reply Like
  • CO3
    , contributor
    Comments (244) | Send Message
     
    I'm just glad nobody came back with any "ozone" comments .....
    15 Aug 2012, 02:30 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    CO3, I was going to make a comment in that direction but didn't think it fitting. I could C a difference in your style!
    15 Aug 2012, 02:43 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1769) | Send Message
     
    Ah well, it probably wouldn't have worked anyway. My whole plan was based on the premise that I would be able to get all the hot air for free. Considering it's DC, I should know better that nothing from a politician is free!
    15 Aug 2012, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    They'd undoubtedly expect campaign contributions.
    15 Aug 2012, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • CO3
    , contributor
    Comments (244) | Send Message
     
    Just give em a cut of your hot air collection ...
    Talk up the great ROI ....

     

    Ok.... I'll stop ......
    15 Aug 2012, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • CO3
    , contributor
    Comments (244) | Send Message
     
    Remember Billy Beer ?
    Now there's Bama-air
    15 Aug 2012, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • axion-nl
    , contributor
    Comments (121) | Send Message
     
    Granville concluded, "We believe we have a winner and we are looking forward to the Indianapolis CEDIA EXPO 2012, and the first opportunity for people to see this product up-close and personal."

     

    I hope the numbers will be stunning, a nice outlook on that tomorrow would be great!
    15 Aug 2012, 02:55 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    WAY OT, but fun anyway – http://bit.ly/RhbZYv;

     

    There must be a lesson in there somewhere, but I'm not totally clear on what it might be.
    15 Aug 2012, 03:24 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1769) | Send Message
     
    Didn't IINDelco post that about a week ago? I know I saw it somewhere else before?
    15 Aug 2012, 03:27 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    Could well be. I try to check his links because they're always interesting, but from time to time I miss one.
    15 Aug 2012, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    It was on CNBC a day or two back.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Aug 2012, 03:39 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    It's the story of my life. I've lived without broadcast television for 15 years so I'm always running way behind on news from the world of sports. I never learn anything till it hits the Internet, but not having to listen to the talking heads is its own reward.
    15 Aug 2012, 03:47 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    John: still good to post though - lots of folks don't watch the telly much and CNBC even less. I've considered switching to Bloomberg because of CNBS blather and excessive advertising and being late as well, such as their "Breaking News" just now that some U.S. lawmakers may have gotten "sweetheart home mortgage" from Countrywide deals.

     

    As if anybody else didn't know. Just more ways to stir their pot.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Aug 2012, 03:53 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    Liking the volume today. 80k sell just went through. Lots of decent sized transactions.

     

    Hoping we go over a million tomorrow. Let's get these sellers outta here!
    15 Aug 2012, 03:46 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    VWAP so far $0.2975 - holding up well. And late the bids started moving up again.

     

    This puts the topping on the suggestion by yesterdays volume that the trend (which had been consolidation) was ending.

     

    Combining today's volume with John's tracking of big sellers (suggesting) being likely out, I think this is an inflection point that should show results over the next week or so if prior behavior after hitting $0.29 is any indication.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove

     

    EDIT: *Unless* Blackrock or Special Situations decide to participate, but I believe the volume spike is telling the truth here. Bid/ask spread ATM 5/100ths of a penny.
    15 Aug 2012, 03:56 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    Nothing warms the cockles of my heart like volume.
    15 Aug 2012, 04:05 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    Well I keep hearing about how the sellers will be cleaned up with volume. But alas they keep showing up. I can't imagine that the 0.35 USD buyers are too happy right now and there were a bunch of those. They have to feel like FB buyers right about now. Well, maybe not that bad. (Didn't anyone watch Rupert Murdock get his A$$ handed to him with MySpace? And that was chicken feed by comparison.)

     

    Anyway,For me it's news I seek. I'd like a good story on NS intentions before the next financial raise. Hell, I'm even starting to feel like an beat up old timer!

     

    Maybe I need more distractions. Maybe grenade fishing but don't worry fellow deep water hunters. I'll aim shallow because I heard it's a blast!

     

    Soooooo we wait with industry news laced with a bit of distraction.
    15 Aug 2012, 04:21 PM Reply Like
  • alsobirdman
    , contributor
    Comments (356) | Send Message
     
    my cockles are getting warm as well. I long ago quit trying to understand why people do the things they do, like selling AXPW @ .30. The 10Q, while not stellar, is still better than the last one yet the selling continues. Not enough to trigger my stink bid today though. Maybe tomorrow. TG will say that things are progressing nicely and some holders will run for the hills.
    15 Aug 2012, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    The hardest part of tracking legacy holders is there aren't enough data points for precision and every day in the market you get selling from legacy holders and from others who have simply decided that it's time to move on. The FINRA short data offers some clues, but it's a bit of a blunt instrument too. We're like a tribe of pygmies eating an elephant. Till that last pot of elephant has is eaten, there's still leftovers in the fridge. When it happens, we'll have a bunch of guys complaining "Hey, who ate all the leftovers?"
    16 Aug 2012, 12:07 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    First Wind working with Xtreme Power to get Hawaii wind farm running

     

    Pacific Business News by Duane Shimogawa, Reporter
    Date: Monday, August 13, 2012, 1:47pm HST

     

    http://bit.ly/Pdyhrh

     

    I guess if you've got insurance, you just build it back and see if it happens again.
    15 Aug 2012, 04:15 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13386) | Send Message
     
    Yep. Especially if its government insurance...

     

    There's a lady who owns a house located on a flood plain in Atlanta who gets flooded about every year or two. The local news always shows her sitting in her chair looking sadly at the waters... Far as I know she lives off the proceeds from the claims - she always moves right back into the same house. Would not think of moving.
    15 Aug 2012, 04:20 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    Government jobs. Take em if you can get em. Does she get a pension? Around here you have to drive around all day and sleep in a hot truck so it sounds like she has a better job! :)
    15 Aug 2012, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • Johhny rambo
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    Sorry if I have missed it, but I am assuming basically nothing of any value or consequence happened during the cc ?

     

    The next financing really concerns me though.
    If we keep selling to 10c flippers, we're never going anywhere ?
    15 Aug 2012, 04:27 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    CC is tomorrow morn @ 11am eastern time
    15 Aug 2012, 04:30 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    cc is manana.
    15 Aug 2012, 04:30 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    Johnny: statements in the 10-Q indicate flippers are out of the picture - they intend to raise from entities whose interests are aligned with Axion's.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Aug 2012, 04:40 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4152) | Send Message
     
    "they intend to raise from entities whose interests are aligned with Axion's"...

     

    ... Thank you for calling the Axionista white courtesy phone, how may we help you?

     

    (yeah yeah... I know... a slightly more strategic partner is in mind...)
    15 Aug 2012, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    Envia Systems (and hype?) was discussed in a recent APC here:

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...;

     

    Here's a new related article:
    http://bit.ly/OeKYNU

     

    This line caught my attention:

     

    "As related in a previous blog post, the battery was based on technology licensed from Argonne National Laboratory and in addition to funding from GM’s investment arm, Envia received $4 million from the Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy (ARPA-E) for technology research and development. Furthermore, ARPA-E sponsored testing of the battery at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Crane, Indiana."

     

    Anyone know anything about GM's investment arm, and whether we might be a candidate for them?
    15 Aug 2012, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    I would doubt GM would sponsor Axion. GM had and still has a culture that mostly only understands swinging for the fence or blending in so as not to upset the boat.
    15 Aug 2012, 05:01 PM Reply Like
  • 42itus1
    , contributor
    Comments (203) | Send Message
     
    They never seem to talk of volume/kwh with this latest technology from Envia. Just a lot of hype about energy density improvements and cost reductions. However, as I understand this tested "battery", we are actually talking of a single battery cell in a balloon (pouch). I imagine the next test will be two such 'miracle' cells in a jell filled cigar box so they can begin spinning this fantasy as a battery pack.
    Expansion/contraction are the great limiter of this tech and not a minor one at all.

     

    AXION needs to get some ludicrous hype going. Rather than the mundane stop-start or Power Cube applications.

     

    1) Working on the next generation battery for space exploration vehicles, like Curiosity, to be used for starting the nuclear engine.
    2) Power cubes so safe they can be shorted to ground as a starting mechanism for the newest energy source, lightning farms.
    3) Fully discharged mobile Power Cubes than can be brought out during severe weather to act as lightning rods and then safely put the stored energy back into the grid or charging EVs.
    15 Aug 2012, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    Pouch cells are very common in the lithium ion business. They are good for energy to weight optimization. That being said from what I've read the quality is not as good as some of the other formats. It could be the expansion ad contraction of the flexible pack as you suggest.

     

    The last article I read concerning A123's offerings was that one of their customers was changing from cylindrical cells to Prismatic cells because of their pack efficiency. Tesla always stayed with cylindrical because it was scaled so heavily that they found the best pricing there. Not sure how quickly this will change with power cells.
    15 Aug 2012, 05:23 PM Reply Like
  • 42itus1
    , contributor
    Comments (203) | Send Message
     
    It is not the expansion/contraction of the flexible pack as I understand it. Rather the flexible pack is necessary because of the fragility of the composites making up the anode under power. Making these pouch cells into a battery pack will be the trick to making their claims have real meaning. Cramming the needed cells into a containment vessel sufficient to power a vehicle is several steps down the road (pun intended).
    15 Aug 2012, 06:43 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    Envia started out on a very bad foot with me when they cropped an "Innovation Grid" graphic from Lux Research to make their industry position look better. I don't often accuse companies of deception, but I did in that case.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    Companies that don't have the backbone to tell the unvarnished truth from day one don't long survive, even if they're loved by the DOE and supported by GM.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:13 AM Reply Like
  • Johhny rambo
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    Thank you, I'm a day early and a dollar short !

     

    Though all the canned air references were confusing me !
    15 Aug 2012, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    Will the FCC Impose Fees on Smart Grid Connections?

     

    Hi, I'm from the federal government and I'm here to help. We noticed your usage patterns have changed, everything OK?

     

    http://bit.ly/N4nxaa
    15 Aug 2012, 05:39 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    What a sweet deal! Force folks to do things to save energy, benefiting society and maybe the individual too, and then make them pay a fee to do so and further benefit society.

     

    And with the EPA on the job, hard to go back to wood-burning stoves in mass, even if you have plenty of wood as I do or can get some at reasonable prices.

     

    The noose slowly tightens. We may need to stop talking to each other as the FCC will find a way to tax that communication too.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 05:50 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    HTL: And then afterwhich the FCC will start taxing cynicism.
    16 Aug 2012, 09:21 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    Maya: I'm SCREWED!

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 09:26 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    "...benefit society"

     

    That's OK HTL. Because if you believe that's their primary motivation, You're screwed already.

     

    Taxing cynicism, Gotta get all I can now cuz it's free.
    16 Aug 2012, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    If somebody adopts a cynicism tax I'll be forced to slit my risks or self-immolate.
    16 Aug 2012, 10:02 AM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (1986) | Send Message
     
    But do you have enough carbon credits that you can afford to self-immolate?

     

    Risk slitting is a better bet if you are clean heir conscious.
    16 Aug 2012, 10:12 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    SMaturin: that one's worth a hearty <*groan*> and a big olf fat BOOYAH (or HOORAH if you're Cramer averse and Marine friendly).

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • alsobirdman
    , contributor
    Comments (356) | Send Message
     
    Was nice to see the volume today. I wish it had been at a couple pennies higher so I didn't feel so bad about my buys this week. I keep reminding myself that I won't care when the price is north of $2.

     

    Anyway, I apologize if this has been discussed. I go for weeks at a time without being able to read the posts. I'm working in Charlotte these days and notice a lot of Hybrid buses. Any market there for us?
    15 Aug 2012, 05:48 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2128) | Send Message
     
    I believe that the buss and transit market is more suited to the capacitor side of energy storage but have no way of determining if the PbC ( Bio-Carbon) battery could do the job as well for less money.
    15 Aug 2012, 07:51 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2083) | Send Message
     
    abm: I suppose it depends on just how the "hybrid bus" is implemented. The the "hybrid" is thrown around without any attempt to pin down the meaning in some cases. I suppose many reporters like fuzzy definitions. Harder to be called out on a mistake.

     

    BUT, if the battery is used to soak up energy while stopping and then returning some for acceleration, the PbC might well be appropriate. That's a classic Power application, where the total energy involved is in the sub-kWh range. That is, lots of Watts for 5-20 seconds.
    15 Aug 2012, 08:48 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2083) | Send Message
     
    Futurist: I've been hoping that Axion can optimize the Power capability of the PbC by lowering the internal impedance by half or more. Reducing the energy stored by the same amount would be a good tradeoff in my opinion. I'm thinking of on-board power buffers for commuter trains and buses and such like. A 50kW battery that only stored 1/2 kWh of Energy would have a nice market niche, IMO.

     

    There are some new synthetic, as opposed to organic, carbon materials that just might do the job. If the $/W can be held below half that of the carbon-carbon supercapacitors it will sell. So far, synthetic high porosity carbon materials are very pricey.
    15 Aug 2012, 08:59 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    Alsobirdman: Charlotte is where Designline (which did/does have a plant there) did there initial testing, predominately on airport routes, IIRC. They offered (CPST) based units and I guess some PEVs too?

     

    All indications were that Charlotte was very pleased with the results.

     

    Keep an ear open and see if you can hear the "turbine whine" on any of them next time you're there.

     

    I might get down there someday (only ~1.5 hours from Burlington) and I'll be listening if I do.

     

    Designline had some troubles and needed financial infusion though and I'm unsure if they're fully resurrected yet, or will be.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 05:57 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    SHB: don't forget that some of the literature and comments have suggested that variable pore sizes perform better than uniform sizes. Maybe we don't need the "High-priced Spread".

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 06:02 AM Reply Like
  • D_Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    There seems to be reason to believe that AXPW has major cost savings to offer the hybrid bus market.

     

    I read in a trade mag that the US is ahead of Europe when it comes to hybrid transit buses. Its interesting that in the US supercapacitors have not caught on. There are two major hybrid bus suppliers, Allison Transmission and BAE Systems. Both have nice web pages.

     

    http://bit.ly/P0V5HE
    http://bit.ly/P0V5HH

     

    BAE is using A123 Nano-iron-phosphate and Allison is using the latest Nickel Metal Hydride battery cell technology from PEVE. I believe its the same stuff as found in a traditional Prius battery. Allison is the market leader.

     

    So lithium and nickel-metal hydride have a major head start. Interesting though that BAE's product was on the road already in the late 90's, and the first generation used lead-acid batteries. AXPW should be offering batteries to them for testing.

     

    These mainstream hybrid buses cost about 50% again more than a clean diesel bus. The payback period on upfront investment is by my estimation around 15 years. So they still are the exception rather than the rule. Durability is good and they require substantially less maintenance along with a smoother ride, less noise pollution, cleaner air, CO2 reductions etc.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • D_Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    Those with an interest in marine vessel hybridization may be interested to note that BAE Systems touts a hybrid propulsion system for yachts, tugs, barges, workboats and other ships and boats.

     

    http://bit.ly/PrHee0
    16 Aug 2012, 12:59 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2463) | Send Message
     
    Speaking of commuter trains, we've got a bunch of those here in the Chicago area. Lots 'o starts and stops. No third rail. PbC heaven?
    15 Aug 2012, 11:24 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    Not only that, but Union Station (one of our underground hubs) has a serious ventilation problem that has led to Chicago Tribune expose's and a serious expense on upgraded filters in the cars. There are a few employees that work in that station and I'm surprised they don't wear masks, because the diesel fumes are a serious health hazard.

     

    A big part of the ventilation issue as I recall is somehow related to private building owners.

     

    http://bit.ly/RYfpyq

     

    Supposedly things are better in some respects:
    http://bit.ly/RYfpyr#
    16 Aug 2012, 12:06 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2463) | Send Message
     
    From the 1st article:

     

    "With help from Durbin, Metra obtained federal funds to install equipment on some of its locomotives that automatically shuts down the engines if they idle longer than 10 minutes. It also is rebuilding two of its aging locomotives to substantially reduce harmful emissions.

     

    Amtrak, meanwhile, is planning to replace all of its locomotives with cleaner models starting in 2015. The upgrades depend on federal funding that has been targeted for congressional budget cuts."
    16 Aug 2012, 12:20 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    When the train pulls into Union Station, one of those employees I referred to plugs in a seriously big cable which provides electric power (and thus Air Conditioning) while the train waits to leave. A short while before the train is to depart, all the cars go dark as they unplug that cable, and for a varying amount of time you wait as I presume the engine fires up, prepares electricity, and does the switchover.

     

    I rode a train home once that noticeably slowed and glided into the station and the lights went out. Not a good sign :-( They futzed for quite a while, and eventually we rode home largely in the dark, and manually opening the doors after consolidating people into fewer cars Thankfully it was a cool day.The engine moved us, put there was some issue with the electric power generation for the cars.
    16 Aug 2012, 09:05 AM Reply Like
  • Articula
    , contributor
    Comments (237) | Send Message
     
    I actually go to Union Station every day. I submitted some feedback thru the investors link multiple times hoping I could act as a lead gen for Axion in this matter. Alex Clifford, the new CEO, stated one of his first goals was to get the fleet both more efficient and make the passenger experience more welcoming in the station. Having electric trains that do not spew smog into the station would be a great start.

     

    Yes I've been trying my best to pass on hot leads to Axion ;)
    16 Aug 2012, 09:10 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    And the AC on a seriously hot day might be an issue from the battery standpoint.

     

    You don't have to air condition a long line of coal cars ...

     

    I haven't figured out the rule Metra uses to decide how many engines: 1 or 2. Maybe it's simply the number of passenger cars, maybe reliability metrics on the engines under consideration ... having a "hot spare" (that's for you HTL :-) )

     

    Note also that there are some fairly long stretches between stations near the ends of the lines, though it's easy to model. (and it's very flat)

     

    So one "PowerCube" engine may not do the trick in many cases depending on loading and temperature.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • Johhny rambo
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    Our PR company, actually doing some PR (sort of)

     

    http://bit.ly/KucnhT
    16 Aug 2012, 01:35 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW) Unusual: pre-market trade 5K @ $0.30, a "buy".

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 09:28 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW): Could it be? Have we come on the radar of HFTers?

     

    A "probe" of 100K shares offered at $0.2995 (matching the NBBO then) at 10:08:20 disappeared at 10:08:29.

     

    I don't think we have, but it was fun to watch.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1769) | Send Message
     
    Hey guys,
    My lab meeting today is starting late, so I won't be able to listen to the CC until later and so I won't be able to ask questions. I left a question over on BW's list. If someone Could ask it for me I would appreciate it.
    The purpose of my question is to get at Axion's model for production. I must admit, after the PR that I'm confused. The PR says that Axion will be making the assembled HUDs/min-power cubes, which I thought was one of the purposes of bringing on Rosewater? Are they now just being used for marketing? This also brings up the question of whether Axion has dedicated works for making the Cubes, or if they basically are having their employees go from electrode assembly to battery production to cube production?
    It also brings up a question regarding rail. Axion has said they have started to talk to other railroads about their PbCs for electric switchers and rail. However, as I understand it, Axion is only supplying NS with the batteries and some BMS. NS's Altona shop is the one who is building them into the old NS999. So do the other rail companies have to learn how to do this as well for any retrofits they want to do? When Railpower was selling the Green Goats it was selling a complete system. NS is basically taking an old Green Goat and putting a new system into it (as I understand the plan). So will other railroads be able to do the same, or will they need to come to NS to learn how to do the retrofit, and is NS willing to contract to do this?
    Sorry to dump all these questions, but they really just came to me last night while I was reading the PR and thinking of questions for the CC.
    Thanks.
    16 Aug 2012, 10:20 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    My 3rd question as put on BW's list this morning I have augmented to add the word manufacturing, so I'll touch on it.

     

    http://bit.ly/NHq7aa

     

    3 now:
    3) With respect to PowerCubes, would you please speak to how we should understand the resources and potentially confusing roles of Viridity Energy, Rosewater Energy, and Axion Power from marketing, technical expertise, and manufacturing standpoints?
    16 Aug 2012, 10:35 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2224) | Send Message
     
    To many of the questions appear far to wordy to me with unnecessary preambles. There's nothing I can do but ask questioners to shorten their questions by asking only one short sentence questions.

     

    Anything I want to know isn't going to be answered so I'm going to sit on the sidelines. The biggest question in my mind is what percentage of ownership in the company is Axion willing to sell in order to secure financing from a strategic partner. I assume it is all remaining authorized and available shares.
    16 Aug 2012, 10:53 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (956) | Send Message
     
    ok all, it's gonna be a good day.
    16 Aug 2012, 10:54 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (956) | Send Message
     
    so someone is buying these batteries. and the Norfolk #s aren't in?
    16 Aug 2012, 11:13 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4152) | Send Message
     
    dat's what the man said :-)
    16 Aug 2012, 11:15 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    Mathieu, Correct and that's good news. Not the delay of the NS999 but the activity on the PBC test units sales. Impressive.
    16 Aug 2012, 11:16 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (956) | Send Message
     
    pretty much. had a hard time grasping those sales numbers without visible customers.
    16 Aug 2012, 11:31 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    Did TG say that NS was not taken any of the $400K batteries yet?
    16 Aug 2012, 12:10 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    NS has ordered the batteries for the NS 999 but has not yet requested delivery. The revenues won't be booked till the batteries are delivered.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    That's my take, backed up by how the revenues from the $400,000 sales still haven't yet been put on the books, and won't until the batteries are shipped.

     

    Wondering if Penn State testing is the cause of the delay.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1887) | Send Message
     
    They have shipped the batteries but the revenues were not included in the 10Q report.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    Sounds like that could slip into Q4.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    They have made some of the batteries but they haven't shipped them yet.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    So we've sold $660K worth of PbCs and none of that amount is due to NSC.

     

    Hmmmm!
    16 Aug 2012, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    It almost sounded like TG was prompted to answer that question in his opening delivery. I couldn't have been more pleased that he addressed that because it gives us a better feel for the level of PBC sales supporting customer development activities.

     

    Important to me anyway.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    was some of the $660K "Legacy"/Racing products?

     

    Though he eventually made it clear there were multiple PbC customers who bought PbCs.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:37 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    JAK: That's what I thought I heard too - they shipped after Q close. Can't wait until the replay is posted to get the facts all straightened out.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 12:48 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    I think the most helpful discussion on that point was the number of existing NDAs. Axion is not in the habit of providing free samples to anybody because it can't afford to. It doesn't need an NDA until somebody wants to buy a battery and start some testing. NS bought a few hundred batteries for it's testing program.

     

    I like the sound of "dozens, and I'm not talking about one or two dozen."
    16 Aug 2012, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • Articula
    , contributor
    Comments (237) | Send Message
     
    3:1 Odds on Hyundai wins!
    16 Aug 2012, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    Articula, I'd agree.
    16 Aug 2012, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1483) | Send Message
     
    I'm thinking Hyundai also..
    16 Aug 2012, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4152) | Send Message
     
    test vehicle(s) *maybe* in less than 6 months?

     

    ..... *maybe*
    16 Aug 2012, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    Jon: what I heard is that it was expected that current testing phase would end in about six months but could be terminated earlier (not a far-fetched scenario IMO). The right into fleet testing stage ramp up.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 12:51 PM Reply Like
  • Articula
    , contributor
    Comments (237) | Send Message
     
    Can someone explain required 3rd party testing? It's a HUGE positive it has tested out of BMW's rigorous testing. Look they are under the deadline for CAFE standards. I don't know if they are testing something else, but the fact that we have passed their testing given they have less than 3 years before the standards are put in gives me great hopes that we are going to snag a BMW contract. Can they fit another testing of a battery in in 3 years?
    16 Aug 2012, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (690) | Send Message
     
    Just because there is a deadline don't be fooled into thinking it can't or won't be delayed. SAD but true.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    Articula, Third party testing is from a specialized accredited lab that is contracted by, generally, by the interested end user. This resource is validating performance characteristics under test regiments that are developed between the supplier of the product, the potential user(s) and the 3rd party accredited lab. The intent is to have another layer of expertise confirm test results from prior testing. Also this 3rd party is interested in getting valid results from the testing but is disinterested in the outcome being positive or negative. In effect it's a risk reduction strategy looking to get confirmation of prior results using another set of well trained eyes. The last step before putting the product in fleets which in effect is the last stop gap measure to make sure NOTHING was overlooked.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • mds5375
    , contributor
    Comments (146) | Send Message
     
    Perhaps Picarelli was the reason for the delay in the CC?
    16 Aug 2012, 11:31 AM Reply Like
  • tonys23
    , contributor
    Comments (92) | Send Message
     
    Completely agree.
    16 Aug 2012, 11:52 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    Analysts on the CC - several.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 11:38 AM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1483) | Send Message
     
    I wrote down:
    Grammercy Investment Partners
    Fertile Minds Capital
    Avenir Capital
    Blackrock - so much for theory they have/are selling all.
    New World Investors.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13386) | Send Message
     
    Whales tend to circle back in their own wake to look for cheap prices resulting from their earlier departure...

     

    Essentially they figure if you are surviving without them, but now cheap, you might be interesting after all.

     

    This is particularly true after a major sector rotation...
    16 Aug 2012, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3308) | Send Message
     
    Wow. The law of the ocean ---daggum BRUTAL. At this point I can only pray to *perhaps* survive long enough to *maybe* someday NOT feel like lunch... ;)
    16 Aug 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    Also, if the "handbook" for market participants, which I've linked before, is correct, all institutions accumulate low, wait for the rise, sell to the late comers (after suitable buy recommendations from ... others?), wait for the re-trace and do it all again.

     

    I expect, like us, they want to make money and not just fill a war chest with stock certificates (metaphorically speaking).

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2463) | Send Message
     
    One of the best parts of the CC so far is Blackrock asking a question. Therefore, they care, therefore they're still at least somewhat in the stock.
    16 Aug 2012, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4152) | Send Message
     
    you betchya

     

    sounds like more than caring... just trying to analyze time...

     

    (also got some specifics on BMW status in Blackrock's line of questioning)

     

    4 analysts; 1 Axionista... so far
    16 Aug 2012, 11:53 AM Reply Like
  • mds5375
    , contributor
    Comments (146) | Send Message
     
    I was really hoping for SOME insight into Powercube sale expectations. If Picarelli were still there, then maybe...
    16 Aug 2012, 11:57 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1887) | Send Message
     
    I agree lots of analysts were on, all other calls I have only ever heard one or two at the most, here we had a good 5 or six I believe. If nothing else it means AXPW is very much on their radars.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:17 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4152) | Send Message
     
    The Blackrock guy was also asking about an 18-month timeline to get onto the factory line after fleet testing (with BMW). TG suggested that changes to adapt to Axion's technology could be "dropped in" and not require that time lag.

     

    Sounds good... and optimistic.

     

    I wonder if the call and data was optimistic enough for Blackrock... would be nice if they started adding.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1483) | Send Message
     
    The drop in application of the PcB is something new and sounds interesting.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    Jon: If my memory is right *some* drop-in applications, but certainly not all.

     

    If I were a gambling man, I'd bet on a 16v 30HT in a single-battery application. The 16v at 80% SOC and larger energy capacity might get the job done on less-demanding smaller vehicles with less "gizmos" in the car or less demanding climes.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 02:09 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (964) | Send Message
     
    Sounded like TG "knows" what questions Blackrock wants answered and mildly annoyed...that is OK...doing some "hard" due diligence.
    16 Aug 2012, 07:03 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    I thought it was fun because it's harder for Tom to say "we don't want to talk about that" when the questions are coming from Blackrock.
    16 Aug 2012, 11:08 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1254) | Send Message
     
    Fleet testing has begun? Within 6 months done? Did I hear correctly?
    16 Aug 2012, 11:51 AM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1254) | Send Message
     
    I also like how BlackRock is still asking questions. Rather specific ones that we want to know too.
    16 Aug 2012, 11:52 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4152) | Send Message
     
    Fleet testing has *not* begun. One more regulatory hurdle. Fleet testing *may* begin within 6 months.
    16 Aug 2012, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    No, Third party testing in Europe has begun and fleet testing is targeted for initiation in 6 months. That is my understanding.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • Articula
    , contributor
    Comments (237) | Send Message
     
    I'm assuming with fleet testing we aren't giving these batteries away? That should help the revenue #'s?
    16 Aug 2012, 12:11 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13386) | Send Message
     
    No free samples.

     

    A major fleet test could be a big sale (in Axion terms).
    16 Aug 2012, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1254) | Send Message
     
    Ass, grass, or cash. NO FREE RIDES.

     

    Sorry, I'm still in my 20's =)
    16 Aug 2012, 12:44 PM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1317) | Send Message
     
    stop start in every car produced. lordy lordy..thatsa lotta batteries
    16 Aug 2012, 11:57 AM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (1986) | Send Message
     
    I was not aware Michael Murphy was touting Axion:

     

    "The New Process To Turn Lead Into Gold – And The 50¢ Stock That Owns The Patents!"

     

    http://bit.ly/Rk6GaI
    16 Aug 2012, 12:03 PM Reply Like
  • Articula
    , contributor
    Comments (237) | Send Message
     
    Really positive call - momentum is building. I feel like the cork is about to pop off the wine bottle and the rush of orders is getting here.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:08 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    I was late to the queue, but it appears they cut the call short b/c I didn't get through or they didn't register me. Did that happen to anyone else?
    16 Aug 2012, 12:09 PM Reply Like
  • DaveT
    , contributor
    Comments (159) | Send Message
     
    I noted we finished fairly abruptly about one hour after the start (we started late, not sure when), I think they had decided the length before the start.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1887) | Send Message
     
    Everything seemed to go off without a hitch. It was a good call imo.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:15 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1483) | Send Message
     
    I got through - maybe just luckily so.

     

    I missed the answer to the questions posed by rep from New World Investors about relationships with battery companies. Would someone be able to provide a brief two sentences on TG's response please? Appreciate it.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:17 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    There are still agreements with Exide. There is no agreement with JCI
    16 Aug 2012, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • DaveT
    , contributor
    Comments (159) | Send Message
     
    battery cos: "All I can say is that I continue to work with them" [I think]
    Then said no pre-show HUBs in field due to UL cert', but implied, I think, there were HUBs in places he couldn't mention. Then BMW and Asian mention
    16 Aug 2012, 12:24 PM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (690) | Send Message
     
    Cost concerns? Contract "air time"?
    16 Aug 2012, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1483) | Send Message
     
    thanks for responses.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    Sounds right. I was back in the queue, but didn't get a second opportunity, but thanks much to the person that asked my SEPTA question!

     

    Maybe those conference call "overage" charges add up :-)
    Or maybe Tom had to be somewhere.

     

    Re: SEPTA, it sounds like Axion got queried. The Space issue didn't quite sit well with me ... I thought they put the system in the electrical substation, not the subway station. But maybe these particular Phily substations are very crowded in "prime" real estate.

     

    The substation as I remember it can serve a small number of subway stations.

     

    But it does still seem like we have some shots in that market.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:28 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    although it did start late ... maybe waiting for Joe P???
    16 Aug 2012, 12:29 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    Talks with many on-going, no JCI is not a partner.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 12:45 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    "Re: SEPTA, it sounds like Axion got queried. The Space issue didn't quite sit well with me ... I thought they put the system in the electrical substation, not the subway station. But maybe these particular Phily substations are very crowded in "prime" real estate."

     

    This seems a little off to me too ... But not sure of the dimensions.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:55 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13386) | Send Message
     
    I class that one as an evasion, a way of dodging a topic that could be a negative in future dealings with a potential customer they would rather not alienate... It may well be that TG was quoting SEPTA, but it comes across as weak...
    16 Aug 2012, 12:58 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1333) | Send Message
     
    As memory serves, the SAFT installation was in a white 20' container...
    16 Aug 2012, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    IIRC ours needs twice the space for the same energy.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:11 PM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (690) | Send Message
     
    Seems to me that if the technology works and is price competitive that the customer will sort out the problems from their end.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:14 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (964) | Send Message
     
    Stefan

     

    Curious how they line up calls...I was on the web then dialed in at 30 minute mark...had a diversion, hung up, called back again and got the last question in...I think.
    I was hoping to pull a WTB and get back in the queue but...
    I had my own set of questions drafted prior to CC release data... I wish I led with...

     

    "...we are also working with new strategic partners for automotive applications and new strategic partners for our cube applications ..."
    Q???.....Can you provide further information about the “new strategic partners”…industry…auto, grid, railroad, commercial building?

     

    "...brought us numerous new requests for proposals encompassing cube sizes from 50 kwh up to 4MWH."
    Q???...what industry or is it government agencies

     

    We plan to introduce the energy "HUB" to the market at the CEDIA EXPO 2012 in Indianapolis the first week in September 2012.
    Q???.....Expect any sales by EOY?

     

    Have not replayed the CC yet...anyone fill in the blanks?
    16 Aug 2012, 08:03 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1483) | Send Message
     
    magounsq,
    I dialed in about 10-15 seconds after the moderator said "press 1 then star". I didn't want to be first so I could see if anyone fielded my questions first and I could move down my list of questions. I got in somewhere around 5th caller - to lazy to look exactly.

     

    Sorry, can't fill in any blanks.
    17 Aug 2012, 12:22 AM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    Mag
    we are also working with new strategic partners for automotive applications and new strategic partners for our cube applications ..."
    Q???.....Can you provide further information about the “new strategic partners”…industry…auto, grid, railroad, commercial building?

     

    Let's see they added an Asian top 5 automaker, either Toyota or Hyundai.
    The are working with two railroad companies. NS is one, the other probably has an NDA.

     

    "We plan to introduce the energy "HUB" to the market at the CEDIA EXPO 2012 in Indianapolis the first week in September 2012.
    Q???.....Expect any sales by EOY?"

     

    This is the retail market. No sales until UL certified. When will it be UL approved? in the annual meeting they expected by the end of the year. Them they can try to sell. Until then it's setting up dealer networks etc. Sales by EOY? Not likely.
    Hope that helps some.
    17 Aug 2012, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (964) | Send Message
     
    froggey

     

    Thanks!

     

    Gut feel...Rosewater (Picarelli)...already beating the bushes and has leads going in to CEDIA EXPO 2012...appears to be his track record...
    17 Aug 2012, 05:18 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (2791) | Send Message
     
    He said the residential power cube is posted their web site and dealers are calling to him.
    Also in Sept. they will showcase the power cubes at a dealer event. I forget the name.
    http://bit.ly/ru1GhG

     

    May 2012
    RoseWater Energy Group to work with major Ontario LDC (Local Distribution Company) to study distributed residential storage.
    RoseWater Energy Group is pleased to announce that in conjunction with one of Ontario’s largest LDC’s, is sponsoring a study on the full impact of widely distributed residential storage on the electrical grid. The study will encompass the effect on rate, reliability, maintenance, and power quality. The ultimate goal is to determine the full financial value of residential storage. The product that will be used in the study is the RoseWater Residential Storage System. The system incorporates Axion Powers revolutionary PbC batteries and is designed as a “plug and play” device that will also incorporate renewable energy sources as well as grid connections.
    “We’re encouraged with the overall market acceptance we have been receiving and to have an LDC of this caliber be willing to partner with us, says a lot,” said Joe Piccirilli of RoseWater.
    “Storage is a key enabler for wide spread implementation and proliferation of green energy sources. Widely distributed storage would allow utilities ultimate flexibility and help create a smarter smart grid.”, added RoseWater’s Mario Bottero.
    The study will begin in September of this year and will be completed by the second quarter of 2013.
    “This study is geared towards the implementation of the residential Cube in a much larger scale,” added Joe Piccirilli. “None of this will impact our current marketing and selling strategy which we expect to be quite robust when we hit the market later this fall."

     

    Here's the product page.
    http://bit.ly/uROX0j
    17 Aug 2012, 09:48 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    Frog, you should post this in APC 140. Great find, good reading.
    17 Aug 2012, 11:14 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (964) | Send Message
     
    froggey

     

    good info...IIRC Tom stated they expect several (?) sales at the EXPO...might be ~ "...put on your seat belts", (i.e.hurry up and wait) but Joe Piccirilli appears to transcend the big company turtle syndrome with viable/solid new ideas/technology.
    18 Aug 2012, 10:23 AM Reply Like
  • DaveT
    , contributor
    Comments (159) | Send Message
     
    One extra good point - no one started selling big during the CC.

     

    And maybe one day we will wake up to three or four simultaneous sales PRs, kind of feels like there is so much in progress.

     

    Re BMW, Tom repeated "across entire fleet" near the end of one discussion, was he still meaning stop-start or Axion too?
    16 Aug 2012, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • D_Lane
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    >DaveT
    stop-start
    16 Aug 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    DaveT: That comment by TG was fuzzy. Pretty sure he meant BMW is going to be fleetwide using stop/start, but not necessarily all equiped with PbCs.

     

    Definitely confused on TG's comment.

     

    Looking forward to a January/February headline:

     

    "BMW Begins Fleet Testing Of Axion Power's Advanced Lead Acid Battery"

     

    Can see the stock popping 100% that day.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:32 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    When fleet testing does eventually start, it won't take long for the PbC to prove its self but how long do we expect the fleet testing to last?
    16 Aug 2012, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    Fleet testing in the battery world is far less exhaustive than laboratory testing because it's easier to beat a battery to death in the lab than it is in a car. I don't know how long the process takes, but it's my understanding that fleet testing is measured in months rather than years.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    So if BMW starts fleet testing in 6 months and test for at least 6 more months, sounds like 2015 model year for any SS cars with a PbC inside. Sound right? It sucks that it Will take at least that long.8-(
    16 Aug 2012, 12:33 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1254) | Send Message
     
    Yes but model year 2015 is delivered in 2014 which means the batteries must be delivered in 2013 which is around that 1 year timeframe you give :)
    16 Aug 2012, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • DaveT
    , contributor
    Comments (159) | Send Message
     
    "the batteries must be delivered in 2013 " - BMW don't do JIT then? Must have big warehouses and banks.
    16 Aug 2012, 02:22 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    The manufacturing capacity will have to be built in 2013 and operational by summer 2014, but nobody in the auto business holds big inventories of components.
    16 Aug 2012, 02:50 PM Reply Like
  • Ranma
    , contributor
    Comments (1254) | Send Message
     
    Sounds like a good reason for a strategic partner! Dibs on the first PbC out of the factory!
    16 Aug 2012, 03:14 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    And the activity required to hit this level of program timing needs to be taken into consideration. You can't hide an Elephant behind a turtle. The activity level would be strikingly different than what we see today. If the timing discussed ends up being real the board will have TG on the hunt for a mate in short order.

     

    (I was going to use flea to represent Axion's current comparative size but hey, I'm biased)
    16 Aug 2012, 03:26 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1483) | Send Message
     
    I iiked best - not one or two dozen NDA's, but several.

     

    I'm just wondering what has happened with Ford. Didn't TG say something about having worked with the OEM in the U.S. for several years - I think this would be Ford? Then I guess that would exclude GM as I think TG also mentioned they were working with "one" North American OEM. I was thinking that perhaps the 150,000 grant second stage would be with GM, as the last failed grant was with GM..
    16 Aug 2012, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    Re NDAs:

     

    "dozenS, and not just 1 or 2 [dozen]"

     

    Which sounds good, although if they for some reason require a NDA for every PowerCube proposal (and they say they've had a lot,) that would make that an easy benchmark.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    NDAs aren't usually required until somebody decides that they want to test something because until then there's nothing to disclose. It's just an inquiry from a potential customer.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:53 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1483) | Send Message
     
    wt,
    thanks for clarifying my remark - I meant exactly that.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:01 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    Ugh, the dreaded UL certification. I think I like him staying the heck away from the topic. Unfortunately, this may stunt any short term sales of HUBs. Maybe someone with a relationship with Joe Picc could send him an email and see what he has to say on this issue.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:22 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    Stefan, I cringed when I heard "purpose built" inverter.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:31 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    I've spoken with Joe about the UL Certification for the inverter and he doesn't foresee a problem since the PbC itself is already certified.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:33 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1769) | Send Message
     
    Metro,
    It's never been clear what happened to the Ford relationship since the Istanbul presentation. I would assume the US OEM TG is talking about is GM. If you remember last year Brainwish did a FOIA to find out who was named on the DOE grant application that wasn't funded. The OEM was GM for a micro-hybrid design. At the time TG said the work on the system would go forward with or without the DOE grant, so I would assume they are still working with GM on this. I know all we hear about with GM is the Volt, but you gotta figure they are going to be putting SS on their other models just like everyone else.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    I'm not clear whether there was a Ford relationship per se.

     

    Ford is pretty much joined at the hip with BMW when it comes to electrical systems. Ford and BMW jointly developed the DCA test protocol with assistance from Axion.

     

    Since Ford has a direct line to development work done by BMW and vice versa, I think the odds that both Ford and BMW would do the same work on the same battery are remote. It would be one or the other, not both.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:49 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1769) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    Makes sense. That way Ford doesn't have to pay for it's own set of testing. And it doesn't change the fact that GM is probably the only US OEM that they directly have an NDA with, for the work on the DOE grant application system, so they could indirectly be working with both but only list one.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (230) | Send Message
     
    NDAs are often required even for very early discussions, in this case, for example, for disclosure of the batteries performance metrics or other proprietary information about the product beyond that already in the public domain. The execution of an NDA does not necessarily mean the other party will go on to test the product.

     

    Having made that point, it is encouraging that there are many dozens of NDAs in the filing cabinet, but only a small minority of these will likely ever lead to product sales. But there is nothing unusual in that.
    16 Aug 2012, 02:46 PM Reply Like
  • tonys23
    , contributor
    Comments (92) | Send Message
     
    An NDA is often put in place simply when one party is showing something to another that is not yet in the marketplace. There needn't always be testing involved, nor any specific "joint activity". One party is simply requiring and getting agreement from the other not to disclose what they saw/learned.
    16 Aug 2012, 04:05 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    Anth and Tony

     

    I disagree with your assessment, but I'm only the former board chairman so what do I know?
    16 Aug 2012, 04:07 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1483) | Send Message
     
    Again,
    I have to keep reminding myself it is Ford Europe and not Ford USA who have worked on the testing protocols. So Ford Europe might be that second OEM in Europe and GM the sole U.S. OEM.
    16 Aug 2012, 07:04 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    I try to keep a very open mind when it comes to guessing who the boys might be working with. Without some pretty clear indications I don't like to assume much. Besides, I think a customer list that includes BMW, GM, Norfolk Southern and either Toyota or Hyundai is plenty for any nano-cap company.
    16 Aug 2012, 11:12 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    John: "I think a customer list that includes BMW, GM, Norfolk Southern and either Toyota or Hyundai is plenty for any nano-cap company".

     

    Not if AXPW is a true Axionista company - they'll always want more!
    ;-))

     

    HardToLove
    17 Aug 2012, 12:38 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3768) | Send Message
     
    "Anth and Tony

     

    I disagree with your assessment, ...."

     

    JP, my immediate reaction to your own was, the only constant in life is change. This much I can say for certain. I would very much like to know PbC technical performance capabilities to assess probable suitability for a particular application. There is no freaking way on this earth I would consider paying an arm and leg for a string of PbC batteries for testing without first knowing the putative performance specs of the batteries.
    18 Aug 2012, 08:47 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3768) | Send Message
     
    "I have to keep reminding myself it is Ford Europe and not Ford USA who have worked on the testing protocols. So Ford Europe might be that second OEM in Europe and GM the sole U.S. OEM. "

     

    metro, I don't think we have any indicators that Ford, either US or Europe, has worked on testing protocols with respect to PbC batteries. Ford, BMW, and a European battery manufacturer worked on a joint project showing that AGM batteries would not support serious start/stop applications due to inadequate DCA. Their paper to that effect was presented in Ankara at the same conference in which BMW-Axion presented. I see NOTHING there to suggest Ford has ever worked with Axion.
    18 Aug 2012, 08:55 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    D-Inv -

     

    The only indicator from that presentation you discusses was the special thanks to Ed Buiel on the last slide:

     

    dl.dropbox.com/u/26257...

     

    "Special Thanks to:
    Ed Buiel, AXION Power, which initiated our thoughts with his
    work. Thanks also for the fruitful discussions and the support."

     

    The division of Ford that co-presented the paper was this one:

     

    http://bit.ly/R9oSBw
    18 Aug 2012, 10:07 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3768) | Send Message
     
    "'Special Thanks to:
    Ed Buiel, AXION Power, which initiated our thoughts with his
    work. Thanks also for the fruitful discussions and the support.'"

     

    Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding, Stefan.
    18 Aug 2012, 11:42 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    No problem. I regularly misunderstand things and appreciate corrections :)
    19 Aug 2012, 12:13 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    The information available to potential customers is a good deal more extensive than the information available to the general public. It does not necessarily require an NDA to obtain. In Axion's case the Maginot Line is a battery purchase and that doesn't happen without an NDA.
    19 Aug 2012, 01:11 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    I attended ELBC 12 in Istanbul and was talking with Eckard Karden of Ford between sessions when he asked Axion to send him another half dozen PbC batteries.
    19 Aug 2012, 01:17 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3768) | Send Message
     
    "I attended ELBC 12 in Istanbul and was talking with Eckard Karden of Ford between sessions when he asked Axion to send him another half dozen PbC batteries."

     

    Thanks for the info.
    19 Aug 2012, 01:30 AM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (690) | Send Message
     
    A positive that may have been missed was a mention, very early in the presentation, that AXPW continue to produce and store electrodes/product. That has not been stated before and since it takes money to do so and given the frugal nature of the company it seems to me that there must be a reason/purpose for the expenditure. To me it would have not been worth mentioning if we were talking dozens or even hundreds of surplus electrodes. The volume must be significant and for good reason.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • DaveT
    , contributor
    Comments (159) | Send Message
     
    Well they know that NS will want them if no one else does?
    16 Aug 2012, 12:32 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    Good catch Albert! I agree - they know of committed demand that they can't disclose.

     

    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 02:19 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3768) | Send Message
     
    "A positive that may have been missed was a mention, very early in the presentation, that AXPW continue to produce and store electrodes/product. That has not been stated before and ...."

     

    Could be memory is not serving well, but I seem to recall TG telling Axionista visitors at New Castle last Fall that production of electrodes from the new robotic line exceeded short-term needs and the overage was being stockpiled.
    18 Aug 2012, 11:40 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    I was particularly intrigued by the discussion of BMWs testing.

     

    As you might expect I'm thrilled to hear that BMW is done with their in-house work and vehicle testing. I was more intrigued by the third-party testing. Last time I checked third-parties want to be paid, and they're usually paid a tidy sum, to double check an industrial concern's in-house testing. That means BMW is now taking cash out of its pocket to have somebody else confirm what they know about the PbC. Investing your own staff's time is a big commitment. Writing a check to have somebody else double check your work is a bigger commitment still.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    When you think about where Axion is in the test cycle with BMW and their comments regarding, the most probable auto concern Hyundai, you start to understand why they termed where they would be looking for funding. If things continue to progress as they have with automotive, they need to start scaling next year. But before they can do that they really need their partner. Doesn't need to happen that way but it's the right path in my mind.

     

    BTW, I worked with a product engineer that was assigned the program when Valeo got the contract to support Hyundai's first plant in N.A. When he came back after his first stint in Korea his comment was "If you guys were impressed with the rise of the Japanese in automotive you haven't seen anything yet." Since this was a few years back we can see the results of their efforts. Absolutely astounding how fast Hyundai has advanced.

     

    One other point. When Hyundai launched their first mild hybrid in the US they pulled the SS from the launch because the reviews on the system were poor. :)

     

    Don't you just love when all these tidbits start to come together to paint a picture.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:02 PM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (690) | Send Message
     
    I may have missed that part of the presentation. Was it specific that BMW were employing a 3rd party?
    I could easily understand if another auto company wanted to employ a 3rd party to check previous results/claims in order to verify the technology for subsequent use.
    Why would BMW seek to employ a 3rd party to further evaluate the AXPW technology when their own engineers have been actively engaged in just that objective for well over a year?

     

    I am puzzled.

     

    Fleet test. What is the scope of a fleet test? Rental cars to AVIS in Portugal? A specific model world wide? Only entry level cars destined for Greece? All vehicles produced on the last day in August? We need clarity!
    16 Aug 2012, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1483) | Send Message
     
    As I reported earlier, I drove a Hyundai 2009 stop/start and it was seamless. Had a friend who had an early 90's Hyundai, and comparing that with the 2009 model, Hyundai has made a huge leap in progress. The fit and finish and cockpit materials were all what I would consider - at least in looks - similar to Volkswagen, Ford, Opel. In contrast the 90's model leaked water into the interior and trunk and looked cheap. Maybe jumping to conclusions on Hyundai, but seems logical.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:13 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    Albert, I addressed the purpose of 3rd party testing in an earlier post to Articula.

     

    Fleet testing is the last confirmation to assure that all the prior testing didn't miss anything and also to place the component/system in an environment with all the other systems that we call a vehicle. The fleet is generally chosen to represent a large scale test of worst case users. This is to accelerate any potential problems. Often they use taxi fleets, police vehicles, delivery vehicles etc.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3308) | Send Message
     
    Does it not now seem to all, given the totality of all the foregoing, that (some) deal with BMW is now all but a virtual certainty? And that really, the only questions now are "when" and "how big"? Whether it's 6, 9,12, or even 15 months away...I just can't see it being a matter of "if" anymore...
    16 Aug 2012, 01:24 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    metro, In their earlier years Hyundai was having some quality problems which put them way down on the JD Powers rating. Their CEO started a program to address this and place emphasis on rectifying the issue. In about a year many of their vehicles sold in the US moved up in the initial quality ratings into the Toyota category. That's impressive to say the least.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:24 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    Wouldn't it be interesting if Hyundai turned out to be our financing white night?

     

    Saw an opportunity, and jumped on it. No grass growing under their feet in the auto biz.

     

    We did just relatively recently sign that trade agreement with Korea :-)

     

    Wonder who provides them batteries both in US and elsewhere?

     

    ZBB has a big collaboration with a Korean partner ...

     

    No idea whether Hyuandai has any real piece of the China market, but I would sure rather partner with them (any chance they're such a big conglomerate that they are involved in battery production too?) than anyone in China.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2463) | Send Message
     
    The Koreans are very interested in advanced batteries and are impressive now in automobile manufacturing and several other industries. And has been posted, they can and do move quickly.

     

    Hard to say, but there could be some piggy-backing going on here (finally!). One well-known company in an industry tests the PbC, finds that it works great, then others start piling in.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    Automotive is but one aspect of their business.

     

    http://bit.ly/MAJYYK
    16 Aug 2012, 01:59 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    Ok, now lets hurry up and ...... wait.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:59 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    Hmmmmm .....

     

    http://bit.ly/Ps1rjN
    16 Aug 2012, 03:59 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    wtb: I also recall somewhere (else than below) reading that EnerDel (formally Ener1) was working with Hyundai.

     

    Which makes me lean toward Toyota.

     

    Plus, EnerDel is also involved with Wanxiang Electric Vehicle.

     

    http://bit.ly/Ps5exG

     

    Interesting name Wanxiang Electric Vehicle is, because Wanxiang Group Corp. is the one trying to buy AONE.
    16 Aug 2012, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    Is Wanxiang trying to corner the market in both EnerDel's some 80 patents, along with AONE's IP rights?

     

    Betting the DC boys aren't aware of this.
    16 Aug 2012, 04:40 PM Reply Like
  • 42itus1
    , contributor
    Comments (203) | Send Message
     
    Surely Hyundai could be looking at the evolving Li battery market seperate from their branded autos, or even considering an EV line. So I wouldn't rush my speculation on this possible OEM just yet.
    16 Aug 2012, 06:41 PM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (230) | Send Message
     
    48, steady man, steady. They are not even testing in fleets yet; they may not, perhaps 80% that they do. Then the thing has to pass muster in all sorts of harsh environments, hot, cold etc. Then the data need to be analyzed, and recommendations made. And all this needs to be compared against other systems they are evaluating, not only in terms of performance, but also in terms of cost, manufacturing, supply risks etc. It's a long road ahead still, and I can't see more than a 50% chance of making it.

     

    However, fortuitously they also appear have a decent bite at rail, grid, hub etc. So downside risk (at least at these levels) is mitigated by having more than a single market to aim for and the inference that they will make it in one or more. All to become clearer over the next 24 months.
    16 Aug 2012, 06:42 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1769) | Send Message
     
    Finally got to listen to the CC.
    I was more interested in the facts that TG made it very clear that the new testing had already started but also that it was "required". Required by whom? I know that IINDelco has already discussed why a company would want 3rd party testing, but is this a requirement by BMW or by some governing body? TG specifically said the validation testing was occurring at a European test facility, so I wonder if there are any governmental requirements for new equipment? Granted, it's probably just required by BMW's protocols, since TG also said that BMW could end it at an earlier time point if the data started coming back as being identical to what their, and Axion's, testing has already shown. I was just surprised by the word "required", when it follows the statement that BMW had finished their testing.
    I did find it a little funny that TG finally gave up trying to talk about BMW as "their longest OEM strategic partner" and just started calling them BMW in the questions. It's not like anybody didn't know to whom he was referring.
    16 Aug 2012, 11:37 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    LabTech, The driving force behind 3rd party testing is BMW and maybe even another interested manufacturer. But don't discount government requirements in the need for the process. Automotive is highly regulated by numerous and differing government bodies in markets around the world. all of these organizations have requirements that need submissions for reasons of things like safety, environment, tax classifications etc. So very complex but there are probably government needs rolled into the third party testing for sure. Government agencies also like data from unbiased accredited sources over the alternative.
    17 Aug 2012, 12:28 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2463) | Send Message
     
    Howard Berkowitz mentioned BMW first, and TG took the bait.
    17 Aug 2012, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    Since there's no relationship as yet with JCI, it appears we're left with EnerSys (located in Reading PA), East Penn (located in Lyon Station, PA) or Exide (located everywhere).

     

    Sweet that I already own some EnerSys stock.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:38 PM Reply Like
  • 42itus1
    , contributor
    Comments (203) | Send Message
     
    John has said in the past that inspite of Exides greed with the "joint" grant that AXION never saw, AXION would not cut off their nose to spite their face. Further, from AXION's website their is still a relationship with East Penn as 'development collaborators'.

     

    http://bit.ly/N74uvU
    16 Aug 2012, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    A negative ... it's clear the UL issue for the MiniCube is a problem. He referenced it twice ... once on my direct question, and then about having a Sample PowerCube available before the Indy Show ... answer no because it's not UL certified yet.

     

    Maybe they've watched ZBB deal poorly with this issue ... it's not fun and there doesn't seem to be much the "UL certification customer" can do to speed it along.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9482) | Send Message
     
    wtb: At the June SC, Joe Pic affirmed that UL approval should be gained by this December.

     

    BTW: Great job on the questions.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    Thanks!

     

    Maybe Joe Pic has some connections, but after my ZBB experience and UL related management estimates, I'll believe it when I see it, and I'm not counting on it by the end of they year.

     

    It has nothing to do with AXPW or Rosewater ... it just seems to be a B*TCH to get it done.

     

    Tom did duck (or forget) my asking who the inverter company is. I think I know from the SC discussion, I just wanted to hear from the horse's mouth.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:06 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29176) | Send Message
     
    I've spoken with Joe about the UL Certification and he seems confident that everything's under control because the PbC is already certified and so are other products from the inverter manufacturer.

     

    I interpreted Tom's response as a pretty clear statement that he didn't want to identify the inverter manufacturer.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    Until UL cert is achieved for the HUB, no revenue from HUB sales and that was what IIRC most of us thought was the closest possible revenue source. If it takes till Dec to get cert, 2012 revenue growth will be hurt.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:48 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2463) | Send Message
     
    I'd be overjoyed just with disclosure of orders. Not sure they'll do it, but why not? Nothing like orders to bring more orders. And a side effect is some support for the stock price.
    16 Aug 2012, 03:27 PM Reply Like
  • AlbertinBermuda
    , contributor
    Comments (690) | Send Message
     
    I am noticing that several comments are appearing on the thread that are new but not being flagged.

     

    Check the comments from when you were last on site.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:54 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    All comments created by others while you were typing your own comment NEVER get flagged.
    16 Aug 2012, 12:56 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    Try refreshing the page where you typed the comment.

     

    The URL for that page includes a comment number that is used to tells which are the "new comments" to flag.

     

    If you delete the tab where you added the comment, or just wait for the new "signal" and click on that link, then the comment number in the newly supplied URL is "wrong" and that's why you don't see the new comments from while you were editing.

     

    Dumb, but I think that's the workaround.
    16 Aug 2012, 01:02 PM Reply Like
  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (411) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » On to a fresh APC...

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    16 Aug 2012, 01:31 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    Can someone point me to the page cite in the 10-K where it discusses seeking alternative or other funding?
    16 Aug 2012, 02:01 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1769) | Send Message
     
    Stefan,
    Here's the text...

     

    The need to secure additional funding to continue operations past the first quarter of 2013 is the result of various factors. Although we continue to make measurable progress with our PbC® technology, the adoption process, and the general path to commercial viability, have both been longer than we originally anticipated. In addition, we will need working capital to fund our anticipated continued growth of sales in traditional batteries and PbC products.
    Management, with the advice and consent our Board of Directors, is taking actions to attempt to raise additional funds in order to continue operations beyond March 31, 2013 from sources that are in alignment with our business objectives and strategies.
    16 Aug 2012, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1887) | Send Message
     
    It is on Page 16 "Liquidity and Capital Resources" 5th paragraph...if you want to see the rest.

     

    ####
    edited because LAB is quicker than I.
    16 Aug 2012, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2424) | Send Message
     
    Interesting indeed. Thanks Lab and jakurtz.

     

    To the Axion employees that read this board, I wanted to say thank you for the additional information that was provided this quarter.
    16 Aug 2012, 02:15 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (16953) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW): FYI the webcast can be downloaded and saved from the company site. Click as if you are going to listen, register and start to listen. When playing starts it will quickly flash a message saying "Right click to download audio". If you miss it, just hit the pause icon and the message should reappear. Even if it doesn't, a right-click and "Save link as" selection (or some equivalent in your browser) should do it.

     

    Ah! Don't even have to pause it.

     

    HTH,
    HardToLove
    16 Aug 2012, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (8492) | Send Message
     
    No info. on price.

     

    2013 Nissan Leaf May Boast 25-Percent Range Boost, Cheaper Base Model

     

    http://bit.ly/PAwMnZ
    17 Aug 2012, 05:55 PM Reply Like