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  • Axion Power Concentrator 141: Aug. 19, 2012: Axion Power Reports Second Quarter Results For 2012 196 comments
    Aug 19, 2012 5:28 PM | about stocks: AXPW

    These instablogs and the people who maintain them have no relationship whatsoever to Axion Power International. To our direct knowledge no person with a current relationship to Axion Power International other than being a shareholder participates in these instablogs.

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    Axion Power Reports Second Quarter Results For 2012

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    Axion Power Weighted Moving Average Prices:

    (updated through Friday close Aug. 17th)

    (click to enlarge)

    Axion Power Moving Average Volume:

    (updated through Friday close Aug. 17th)

    (click to enlarge)

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    Links to valuable Axion Power research and websites:

    The Axion Power Concentrator Web Sites created by APC commentator Bangwhiz it is a complete easy-to-use online archive of all the information contained in the entire Axion Power Concentrator series from day one; including reports, articles, comments and posted links.

    Axion Power Wikispaces Web Site, created by APC commentator WDD. It is an excellent ongoing notebook aggregation of Axion Power facts.

    Axion Power Website, the first place any prospective investor should go and thoroughly explore with all SEC filings and investor presentations as well as past and present Press Releases.

    Axion Power Chart Tracking, HTL tracks AXPW's intra-day charting.

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    Disclosure: I am long AXPW.

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Comments (196)
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  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Looks Like Fisker believes they have found the problem that caused the latest fire. "Elon the Great" gives them a kick in the groin.

     

    Fisker Update: Karma and CEO Recalled, Tesla’s Musk Shares His View

     

    http://bit.ly/NdBW3G
    19 Aug 2012, 05:51 PM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (3700) | Send Message
     
    Two start up EV car companies, both with problems and Musk has to bad mouth the competition. The pot calling the kettle black?
    19 Aug 2012, 06:24 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (958) | Send Message
     
    iidelco

     

    Interesting final sentence...foreshadowing?

     

    "Musk has his own set of automobile manufacturing challenges ahead of him. He has to build 30,000 Model S Sedans in the next 6 quarters."
    19 Aug 2012, 06:46 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    magounsq,

     

    "People in glass houses should not throw stones."?

     

    From my perspective his first car was hardly a gem.
    19 Aug 2012, 06:55 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    I generally find more fault with his frothing legions of smug devotee followers rather than with The Exalted Musk himself, but here we definitely see at least a lack of chivalry, as well as perhaps charity. Still, I have to say that his argument does have some merit. Function is the sine qua non of true design, and any who would be purveyors of such complex objects of excellence discount that at their peril...
    19 Aug 2012, 06:58 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Stilldazed, They are lucky it's not the battery and they don't have too many units in the field. I happen to think the thing is an over weight, over priced fairly good looking rich mans toy. And not a very good one. But at least the failure they had this time is salvageable.
    19 Aug 2012, 07:06 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    48, Well said!
    19 Aug 2012, 07:07 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    "Musk has his own set of automobile manufacturing challenges ahead of him. He has to build 30,000 Model S Sedans in the next 6 quarters."

     

    Not only that, he has to find someone to buy them if/after Tesla builds them!
    19 Aug 2012, 10:30 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (10429) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/MJ3MJH

     

    "The car can provide superior handling, while at the same time do it with a very soft suspension that makes a Bentley Mulsanne blush. In the comfort/refinement department, the Tesla Model S makes Buckingham Palace seem like a Burger King. "

     

    "the Tesla Model S is now the undisputed king of the automotive world. "

     

    They might find a buyer or two....
    21 Aug 2012, 09:49 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (3700) | Send Message
     
    JRP3,
    I don't think you'll find anybody here that will argue about the model S looks, feel or appeal. The disagreement comes from scale, practicability of the battery tech and macro economics. Hey, cool looking and intriguing is great if you have that kind of disposable income, most people don't.
    21 Aug 2012, 10:04 AM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (958) | Send Message
     
    pat1000 (an avid TSLA commenter) posted...

     

    attention
    Due to the interview with Elon Musk I think in the MAG Automobile I sold my 200 calls in Tesla and Bot 200 puts----

     

    Elon said it would take 6 months to know if Tesla would survive-----he thought it would but it might not-----

     

    20 Aug 2012
    21 Aug 2012, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    Took a minute to research Energ2 who partnered with Oregon Freeze Dried and just built a plant in my back yard. Here is the timeline through the eyes of our local press...

     

    http://bit.ly/MFYezJ

     

    It just so happens that Entek is just across the freeway in Lebanon and they are expanding to meet JCI needs. Wouldn't it be great to have the new Axion PbC electrode factory also in my back yard (maybe someday)?

     

    I don't see Energ2 competing with Axion as they just have the process to make super charged activated carbon. Enjoy the read if so inclined...

     

    Edit: consider google's incognito function to get past the limited page loads...
    19 Aug 2012, 06:33 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Tim, Interesting Robert Lutz joining their board of directors. In the first article on the site you reference they call out his tenure at Chrysler. F. GM and BMW. They fail to bring up perhaps his most important stint given Energ2's target markets.

     

    "Robert A. Lutz, former president and vice chairman at Chrysler Corporation, was appointed Exide's Chairman of the Board in 1998. He reorganized the worldwide management structure into Global Business Units and sold off non-battery units to allow the company to concentrate on its primary business. In 2000, Exide acquired GNB Technologies, a leading North American supplier of automotive batteries. Two years later Exide filed for bankruptcy after compiling a debt of $2.5 billion as a result of the recent acquisitions."

     

    http://bit.ly/Nzqsca
    19 Aug 2012, 06:51 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    And for good reason <smile> but I can tell you that Oregon is very excited about this. Oregon Freeze Dried has some secret sauce that Energ2 has access to...
    19 Aug 2012, 07:18 PM Reply Like
  • froggey77
    , contributor
    Comments (3236) | Send Message
     
    It seems they've come to a conclusion on that taxi fire.
    http://bit.ly/P8aZjG
    BYD TAXI FIRE

     

    When three American astronauts perished during tests of the first generation Apollo space capsule in 1967, NASA immediately launched an investigation and determined that in addition to the capsule’s high-oxygen environment, highly combustible Velcro and some 70 pounds of other flammable materials were used in the spacecraft. Among the changes in the design was the replacement of those materials with self-extinguishing types. BYD and other EV manufacturers need to take a cue from that tragic event, especially in the light of a similar, more recent tragedy that also killed three people.

     

    On May 26, 2012 a BYD e6 electric crossover vehicle operating as a taxi in the city of Shenzhen, China, was struck by a Nissan GT-R sports car traveling at approximately 242 km/h, according to the official report. Hitting the taxi at the equivalent of 183 km/h the force of the collision shoved the e6 across the road and into a tree, killing the driver and his two female passengers. Unlike the GT-R and a third vehicle it struck, the e6 burst into flames (page 17) consuming most of the vehicle.

     

    The just-released report on the government’s investigation cites a high-energy spark as the cause of the fire, stating that due to the force of the collision, “the battery compartment was seriously deformed, and the power battery pack and high voltage switchbox were severely compressed, causing damage to part of the power batteries and a short-circuit. High voltage lines of the high voltage distribution box and the body of the car short circuited, producing electric arc which ignited the combustible material including the interior materials of the vehicle and part of the power batteries.”

     

    Ironically, neither the GT-R, nor the third vehicle, both gasoline fueled, caught fire. In fact, the two passengers in the sports car, who were both found later to have been drunk, were uninjured.

     

    The e6 carries a 60kWh lithium iron phosphate battery pack that gives it a claimed range in excess of 160 miles (300 km). This makes it an ideal vehicle for taxi services and 50 were deployed in 2010. In April 2011, on the first year anniversary of the Green-Taxi Project, BYD announced the fleet has amassed more than 1.7 million miles of service. With the initial success of the program, another 250 e6’s were placed into service. Presumably, one of those was the vehicle involved in the fatal 5.26 collision, as it’s referred to by BYD.

     

    The company, some 10% of which is owned by a subsidiary of Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway investment company, notes that it was not the batteries that were at fault. “In the accident, the power batteries of such vehicle did not explode, 72 single cell batteries (accounting for 75% of all the 96 power batteries) did not catch on fire. The designs of the battery system in relation to the installation layout on the vehicle, the insulation protection and the high voltage system are reasonable. No flaws in the safety design of the vehicle were revealed.”

     

    They stress that the vehicle “complies with the relevant national standards and requirements,” and that few vehicles could sustain the force of crash at the speeds involved without serious damage to the vehicle and likely fatal injuries to its passengers. Still, the fact that the other vehicles did not catch fire and the e6 did clearly suggests that BYD needs to do some serious re-engineering of their vehicle to better protect passengers and prevent such destructive arcing. NASA learned from Apollo 1, BYD should learn from the 5.26 accident. The result will be a safer product.
    19 Aug 2012, 10:17 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    My rough estimate since I caught up on Axion messages early this morning is about 150 in 15 hours on a *Sunday*.... 10 msgs per hour on the weekend... geez, what's going to happen if the stock price goes up a nickel?
    19 Aug 2012, 11:51 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >Jon Springer ... We'll all go fishin'
    20 Aug 2012, 12:04 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    "Animal spirits" is the term John Maynard Keynes used in his 1936 book The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money to describe emotions which influence human behavior and can be measured in terms of consumer confidence.

     

    Perhaps we're seeing a resurgence of "Aquatic Spirits"
    20 Aug 2012, 12:13 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I think the most important minute in the CC starts at 42:07

     

    In response to a question from Howard Berkowitz about BMWs plans for stop-start Granville said:

     

    "From what they’ve told us, and from what all the OEMs have told us, everything that’s marketed in the future will be stop start, everything short of a plug-in hybrid electric or a full EV will contain some form of stop-start. So it will be across the entire fleet that they will be utilizing stop-start. How they’ll do it, and how they’ll do it with different models, certainly is something that’s ongoing with them, we certainly aren’t privy to that, but they have told us it will be across the entire fleet."

     

    I think many missed the first critical parenthetical phrase "and from what all the OEMs have told us."

     

    Unless I'm profoundly confused or Tom mis-spoke, he just told us that ALL THE OEMs Axion has talked with, the entire global auto industry, are planning fleet wide implementation of stop-start on their internal combustion engines. This is not just a BMW thing, it's an everybody thing.
    20 Aug 2012, 12:06 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    So, just for fun, what % market share of that market is equivalent to $1 of share price.

     

    Is 1% market share:
    - $.25?
    - $.50?
    - $1?
    - $2?

     

    What about 10% market share?...

     

    Let's stop there...

     

    Time will tell... but intriguing... albeit, in the meantime, its only dreaming (ask people who invested in ATPG).
    20 Aug 2012, 12:24 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3221) | Send Message
     
    Yes, looks like the expected growth of s/s continues to spike upwards, which is terrific news to Axionistas.

     

    However, rapid growth of the total expected mkt size is currently being overwhelmed by the lack of conviction by non-Axionistas that Axion will get any meaningful slice of that growing pie. Even an astronomical number multiplied by 0% is still zero.

     

    It's a big reason why I was able to add at 30 cents last week and not $1 or $2 or $5. Plenty of non-believers still.
    20 Aug 2012, 01:19 AM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (3686) | Send Message
     
    Not sure if it is "non-believers" but rather a very limited investor base. Plain and simple the story is not out there yet.

     

    Heck, only 10 of us even get Axion email alerts while some stocks have 1000s of email followers here on SA (even KNDI has over 350 subscribers).

     

    http://bit.ly/JrkDyO
    20 Aug 2012, 02:06 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The estimates I've seen floating around range up to 34 million stop-start equipped vehicles per year worldwide by 2015, so a 1% market share would be 340,000 vehicles.

     

    While the batteries Axion sold to NS went for about $400 each, I have to think $250 is probably the pain point for automotive. It also ties back into a price spread Axion used a couple years ago when estimating the cost difference between PbC stop start and AGM stop start.

     

    At $250 per battery, each 1% of market penetration would represent $85 million in annual revenue. If you want to be cruel and assume that a battery company should only trade at 50% of sales, then each 1% market penetration should represent $42.5 million in market capitalization, or ±$0.37 per share.

     

    If you assume that the PbC might have some utility outside of stop-start the numbers ramp pretty rapidly from there.

     

    The article I submitted to TheStreet yesterday includes a solid overview of Axion's "broken stock syndrome" and contrasts the dismal performance of the stock with the stellar performance of the underlying business. It was a lot of fun to write because it's been a long time since I've been able to write an Axion-centric article because of SA's sub-$1 stock rules.

     

    Did you know that today's market capitalization of $34 million represents a 3% discount from Axion's March 30, 2009 market capitalization of $35 million for a late stage R&D outfit with no revenue, no proof of concept and no visible industry relationships?
    20 Aug 2012, 02:16 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The alerts number is very bizarre since there used to be several hundred people who got AXPW.OB alerts. The same problem shows up if you go to my articles archive. There is a link up top for AXPW.PK, but nothing for AXPW.OB, and if you click that link you'll learn that I've only written six articles about Axion over the last four years.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:58 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    It's almost enough to make me wonder whether we have a dedicated troll out there with significant hacking skills. I've sent SA a message asking them to check into the issues.
    20 Aug 2012, 04:29 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    No dedicated troll. Just SA's obsession with the letters after the tickers

     

    AXPW.OB now has 13 followers http://bit.ly/TPds5P
    whereas
    AXPW.PK has 425 followers http://bit.ly/PqCMi1

     

    My guess is all the AXPW.PK people should have been merged over to AXPW.OB when they changed the primary ticker symbol (but they did not) and that most of your articles are under the .PK ending.

     

    P.S. Thanks for the thorough answers on how much 1% of the S/S market would be worth... I was just being silly... and now you've gone and upped my price target.
    20 Aug 2012, 07:06 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    There hasn't been an AXPW.PK since Axion had to restate several years of financial statements. It got demoted to the Pink Sheets in the summer of 2006 when it's financial reporting fell out of compliance and was restored to the OTCBB on July 3, 2008 after all the restatements were completed. It has traded there ever since.
    20 Aug 2012, 07:21 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Be that as it may. I don't know when SA corrected the .OB/.PK dichotomy... and I find it hard to believe AXPW.PK had 424 followers from before 2008. My better guess is that SA had a vanilla AXPW (with no extension in the system), then added the extension to differentiate, and pushed all the followers over to .PK at some unknown and more recent date.
    20 Aug 2012, 07:26 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The 425 figure matches my recollection from a couple months back when we last discussed the issue. It looks like my note to SA has resolved the problem and gotten the two entries consolidated, although my author board is still a mess.
    20 Aug 2012, 07:28 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    John,
    I wouldn't say any of us missed it. We've all just been assuming it is true, so we've kind of taken it as "yeah, we knew that already". At least that's how I took it, but you are correct, this is the first time we heard from TG saying that the OEMs have told him that, instead of JCI or LUX.
    20 Aug 2012, 09:08 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The disconnect in the broader market amazes me.

     

    The number of investors who know stop-start exists is minuscule. Among investors who know the technology exists, the vast majority underestimate it's importance because they think in terms of *optional equipment* that will depend on consumer acceptance.

     

    For my ELBC presentation I calculated that a 16-mile commute in a stop-start vehicle demands 91 times the work from the battery. The legacy industry leaders are whistling past the grave yard when they brag on enhanced batteries that are four times better or even AGM batteries that are ten times better. They need two full orders of magnitude and the PbC is the only technology (except perhaps lithium-ion) that can deliver what the application requires.
    20 Aug 2012, 09:22 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    "While the batteries Axion sold to NS went for about $400 each, I have to think $250 is probably the pain point for automotive. It also ties back into a price spread Axion used a couple years ago when estimating the cost difference between PbC stop start and AGM stop start."

     

    John,
    I thought we were assuming a price of $250 for an AGM and $350 for a PbC?
    20 Aug 2012, 09:32 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    With one caveat, lithium needs a TMS for the temperature extremes.

     

    And the theme song of the day.

     

    http://bit.ly/Oswxso
    20 Aug 2012, 09:33 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The OEM price for an AGM battery is about $125 to $150, which is roughly twice the OEM price for a flooded battery.

     

    In an investor presentation that I downloaded in January of 2010, Axion used a cost estimate of $150 for VRALA battery, $250 for a current PbC battery and $300 for a future PbC battery.

     

    In an investor presentation that I downloaded in July of 2010, Axion estimated a "full integration cost" of stop-start at $350 with VRLA and $500 with the PbC.

     

    For purposes of my own mental calculus, I've taken the $100 to $150 spread and allocated the entire amount to the PbC electrode assemblies. The number would be a bit higher if I factored in lead savings, but I have to believe another battery manufacturer won't buy PbC electrodes unless selling PbC products is more profitable for it than selling VRLA.
    20 Aug 2012, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1288) | Send Message
     
    ridiculous upside when you are the best product for the future of all cars not EV/plug in hybrid. the important execution part is maintaining healthy margins. Norfolk is the first test data point on those lines. At today's price we know people are buying the PbC and i doubt you enter a deal to sell batteries to homeowners at a loss.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    check competitors section and notice the only one with positive net margins trades at 100$.
    20 Aug 2012, 09:53 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I've known Granville for a long time and he's not the type to buy new business by sacrificing margin. His overall strategy will be to cherry pick the highest margin business for Axion and farm out the lower margin customers to third parties that are best equipped to haggle over pennies.

     

    Being a component supplier is a great position when it comes to pricing pressure. You charge all your customers the same price for the electrode assemblies and nobody has room to complain. There's a reason that Polypore is consistently profitable, and it has nothing to do with selling complete batteries.
    20 Aug 2012, 10:08 AM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (3686) | Send Message
     
    425 Axionistas getting alerts seems much better. Hopefully we can break 1000 followers by year end. =)
    20 Aug 2012, 10:08 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    "....$250 for a current PbC battery and $300 for a future PbC battery."

     

    Hugh? In automotive? Not unless it's directly tied to input material price escalation. On the value add side they will build in price reductions by year in the initial contract. Once they are scaled obviously.

     

    It would be interesting to see what the automakers value chain supplier development teams come away with. I'd be surprised if Axion hadn't already been given some direction on a target price based on the duration of BMW's relationship with them.

     

    "...but I have to believe another battery manufacturer won't buy PbC electrodes unless selling PbC products is more profitable for it than selling VRLA. "

     

    For me that depends on who they partner with. The majors that already set pricing in the market might offer it at an equivalent margin if dragged to it kicking and screaming. A lesser player looking to squeeze their way in might take it at a more favorable level as a means of getting into a market they haven't been able to crack. The automotive companies might even set-up this play for Axion.

     

    My odds on favorite (setting odds only) as an outcome is that Axion will license the technology at a return/unit less than we'd anticipate. Automotive only. Like Ovanic with Nimh. It will still be a good deal. And Axion can focus on the other markets with better business opportunities while letting the market scale the product.

     

    Just some thoughts for consideration.
    20 Aug 2012, 10:18 AM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2268) | Send Message
     
    Jon,

     

    The switch also occurred on Google Finance recently, which now lists as PINK:AXPW, resulting in a rather bizarre weekly chart that jumps from December 2007 to July 2012:

     

    http://bit.ly/Pz8xFh
    20 Aug 2012, 10:34 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The future PbC was based on a 50% reduction of recharge time to 17 seconds, although I have to agree that automakers are the world's worst when it comes to whining about price. "Can't you just give me 100x the performance for the same price?"

     

    I continue to believe an outright license is very unlikely. That being said it's easy to foresee a situation where:

     

    1. Axion enters into a JV with XYZ to build an electrode fabrication facility next door to XYZ's plant;
    2. XYZ steps up with the financing and Axion steps up with the technology;
    3. Once the electrode fabrication facility is built, XYZ runs day-to-day production operations and Axion runs IP sensitive operations;
    4. Product pricing to XYZ is determined according to pre-agreed formulas and JV profits are shared in agreed ratios; and
    5. If something really bad happens to Axion, there would be a right for XYZ to take over the whole show at the JV plant (but nowhere else) and simply send Axion a royalty check.

     

    To make it all happen, XYZ or maybe an automaker linked VC would also make a direct cash investment in Axion.

     

    A lot of the industry's Chinese deals have been structured this way and there's reason why the format wouldn't work elsewhere.
    20 Aug 2012, 10:38 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    We agree for sure. Automotive is nasty when it comes to being rewarded for your value add in the relationship.

     

    Your theory on the possible JV scenario seems plausible. How about this one. Axion makes the sintered carbon sheet and the supplier does the balance of the operation. Is there really that much process technology that is proprietary outside of the carbon sheeting or carbon sheet cut blanks. I could envision where better integration of Axion's assembly process into the final AGM process might be more advantageous. Maybe only in proximity or perhaps more?

     

    This let's Axion focus on component optimization like the carbon sheeting, copper coated current collector, charge acceptance etc. The the battery manufacturer's can manage the assembly process which I'm sure they are far better at.

     

    This they could have a joint technology sharing agreement on allowing Axion to run some different relationships at a far higher margin in different markets. Keeps them out of automotive and supports their efforts where there is some meat on the bone.

     

    Obviously many options but my main thought is that large tier one battery suppliers are not going to want Axion getting that much content of their core competency. Axion protects and controls their IP, gets Technical help to support the better markets, Axion gets financial support and they avoid the h$ll of being in automotive. Once it proves itself and Axion starts to show success in other areas the larger companies will then be able to justify the buyout that's most likely to happen once expectations come closer to bearing fruit. they are not going to stay independent if they are successful.

     

    The Intel Inside is not the carbon electrode assy it's the sheeting and the IP.
    20 Aug 2012, 11:03 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I don't know whether it would be possible to slice and dice the work of fabricating the carbon electrode assemblies and I believe there's a healthy dose of IP at each stage in the process.

     

    We knew what the basic design would have to be by mid-2005. A five layer device with a current collector center, a double sided grafoil corrosion barrier and two carbon sheets on the outside just isn't that complex. It still took three years of full time work by the research team to minimize internal resistance and optimize the components so they'd work predictably as a system. By mid-2008 we were finally ready to take it up a notch and figure out how to automate the steps the staff had been doing by hand.

     

    These electrode assemblies where the term DECEPTIVELY simple is very apropos.

     

    Ultimately I figure the bean counters at the manufacturing partner will tell their bosses "We get $150 for an AGM battery. If we spend $100 for Axion's electrodes and sell a co-branded PbC for $250, our per unit profit will jump by $15 based on the lead savings alone. If we can build the electrodes in a joint venture, we can also get a portion of the spread that would otherwise go to Axion."

     

    As long as everybody understands that joint ventures don't happen unless they increase profitability for all participants, I think we don't need to try and forecast the details at this point.
    20 Aug 2012, 11:22 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, agreed. Enough "What if'n?"

     

    I did want to know what you though about regarding the carbon sheeting only perspective though! ;)
    20 Aug 2012, 11:28 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I don't know enough to know whether that's possible. There were a lot of technical details that never made it to the board because we didn't need to know. We understood what the goals were, but the nitty gritty detail was scrupulously protected.

     

    “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.”
    20 Aug 2012, 11:33 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... I don't think there is anything inherently difficult about Axion's electrode looking at the material list and therein lay the genius. I would also think that the real IP is in the fabrication/bonding of the various layers. Playing strengths & weakness between material & glue in the electrolyte.

     

    Think of it like Edison looking for that best filament for his lightbulb. Tens of thousands of materials that might work (but don't), could work (but not well), do work (but don't last or are too expensive), etc. Once understands just how everything works together, the final solution looks "stupidly" simple. That is worth protecting from a JV partner.
    20 Aug 2012, 11:57 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    As far as I know, that's a pretty fair description of the process the team went through. The team spent forever testing different materials and compositions to get to the best systemic result. At the end of the day, the best IP is one that people can copy till hell freezes over, but they won't be able to duplicate unless they go through the same process and reinvent the wheel.
    20 Aug 2012, 12:03 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    DRich, Understood. Could change immeasurably with a good diamond coating.

     

    Anyway, Just thinking about alternatives to the way it might be rolled out with the autos to make it more palatable for the existing battery suppliers. In my opinion there might be alternate paths required to give them added reason to jump.

     

    Sometime a less obvious path is the one that yields the least resistance. Having a great idea left on paper generally doesn't yield a very high ROI. And most technology has a shelf life either due to genetic improvement or by being supplanted. That's ONE reason you see the gadget sellers hit the infomercial market hard and then they are gone.
    20 Aug 2012, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >iindelco ... Gadget makers? Well, I look at Axion as sort of a gadget maker ... kinda' like the Veg-O-Matic. One with a long run ahead of it and constantly copied, brought back under new names & still with us. I see the auto makers pressuring their battery suppliers via all the carbon paste & coatings for something ... anything ... that will get the job done without having to deal with a monopoly supplier like Axion or implementing the no margin resale solution that is Li-on.

     

    This is one situation where all the government haters out there ought to be thankful for the regulatory deadline set for fleet improvement. Without it, I think Axion would wither away for the auto industry. Personally, I think that wouldn't be all bad but I know how much y'all pay heed to that segment.
    20 Aug 2012, 12:44 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4810) | Send Message
     
    "Anyway, Just thinking about alternatives to the way it might be rolled out with the autos to make it more palatable for the existing battery suppliers. In my opinion there might be alternate paths required to give them added reason to jump."

     

    Isn't one alternative path that of an auto OEM telling bat manufacturers they need to offer a PbC if they want to do business with the OEM? ISTM, the temperature operating range of PbC stands to put the device a leg up on conventional VRLA-AGMs. Superior DCA and charging rate push head and shoulders above fence line as well by extending battery life and enabling 2X or more improvement in mpg vice s/s with AGM.
    20 Aug 2012, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    DRich, It slices. It dices...... Good ole Ronco.

     

    "This is one situation where all the government haters out there ought to be thankful for the regulatory deadline set for fleet improvement. Without it, I think Axion would wither away for the auto industry."

     

    Well then the perceived value of the asset would have adjusted to a different valuation.
    --
    Too many government interactions to determine CAFE standards contribution as a stand alone. What if the price of oil was adjusted for the cost of the policing required to maintain access as an example. Just a thought but you see my point. We could go on all day.
    20 Aug 2012, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (958) | Send Message
     
    odd...

     

    Sell AXPW.OB Today?
    I'm Steve Reitmeister with Zacks Investment Research. We're releasing a free AXPW.OB analysis that forecasts where it's heading in 1-3 months.
    This prediction model is worth noting because it nearly triples the market's average yearly gain.
    Important: A second free report reveals all of Zacks' MUST-SELL stocks. See if AXPW.OB or any of your holdings are on this list.
    Get both free reports right now »
    20 Aug 2012, 02:50 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (958) | Send Message
     
    baz

     

    I see 434...
    20 Aug 2012, 02:52 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >magounsq ... OK, I give up ... what is odd?
    20 Aug 2012, 02:53 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (958) | Send Message
     
    DRich

     

    My apologies.
    When I went to BAZ link:
    "Steve Reitmeister with Zacks Investment Research. We're releasing a free AXPW.OB analysis that forecasts where it's heading in 1-3 months."
    Odd...coincidental (?) advertisement on the link for an AXPW forecast...or may be wishful thinking...Zacks?

     

    Maybe just a "google" type automatic fill in link.
    20 Aug 2012, 08:35 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    A bit OT, but interesting.

     

    http://engt.co/NRMJTk

     

    VW Farfennuging a slightly different road...
    20 Aug 2012, 03:14 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW): 8/17/2012 EOD stuff.
    # Trds: 91. MinTrSz: 160, MaxTrSz: 70000, Vol 935726, AvTrSz: 10283
    Min. Pr: 0.2800, Max Pr: 0.3025, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.2989
    # Buys, Shares: 71 787712, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.2999
    # Sells, Shares: 20 148014, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.2934
    # Unkn, Shares: 0 0, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.0000
    Buy:Sell 5.32:1 (84.2% "buys"), DlyShts 582984 (62.3%)

     

    At 9:18:40 a pre-market trade of 5K at $0.30 went that will not appear on the FINRA-reported data. Adding this to the FINRA volume would bring the short sales percentage from 62.64% calculated on FINRA's data to match mine above. 62.3%. Adding it also to the short sales would move the percentage to 62.8%, and affect mine similarly.

     

    Note that the low for the day was set by just three trades below $0.29 totaling 39,340, 4.2% of total volume, at $0.28/$0.2810.

     

    There was an extensive discussion of some oddities related to daily short sales, the ratio of these to "sells" that may prove useful down the road and whether or not "Axionistas" might be doing heavy selling. This was in response to a comment by Iindelco, which sparked me to look at things slightly differently. I posted my response as a comment, found at the bottom of the comments in the instablog for now. Later I will move that content into the header if it appears there is some validity to my musings there.

     

    Beyond that, I'll only say take note of the excessive daily short sales, relative to the volume, at the same time noting the very strong buy:sell ratio. I had noted previously that I expected volume to start to subside and Friday volume did that, but not excessively (that would have concerned me). Now I do expect volume to drop off more rapidly and will be watching the other stuff, including price, ebb and flow during the day, buy:sell, ... to try and determine "what's next".

     

    Heavy volume with demonstrated price weakness would be very concerning now as I suspect that the heavy sellers are getting near exhaustion. Falling volume right now with price stability or even a little strength would be a plus and not unexpected. This is because often folks that have a positive outlook on reported results and desire to enter or add will wait a few days to let any perceived excess exuberance subside and catch a good price on some pullback. The fact that our share price has demonstrated a reluctance to fall dramatically will likely not enter their minds.

     

    LoL! In fairness though, with the big sellers hammering away, price has also demonstrated a strong reluctance to rise!

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    20 Aug 2012, 04:47 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    An open question to the krill, catfish, turtles and other critters that feast on low prices... is there anyone still deeply hungry among us? or do those of us lacking sanity have permission to, um, how does one say... try rocking the boat?
    20 Aug 2012, 11:38 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    You're an evil man Springer, but I like it!

     

    FWIW the article I submitted to TheStreet is a boat rocker because unlike our erstwhile host, they don't have an outright prohibition on articles about sub-$1 stocks as long as they're meticulously researched and reasoned.
    20 Aug 2012, 11:42 AM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2268) | Send Message
     
    Rock that boat, Jon!

     

    Whatever slops out will get snapped up before it sinks to the bottom!
    20 Aug 2012, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Jon, As of late last week I'm so heavily weighted I can't find my socks.

     

    You'll get no advice from me on any intentions. Better direction in an asylum generally comes from the outside! :)
    20 Aug 2012, 11:53 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1960) | Send Message
     
    My tentacles are getting tingly but I am not big enough to matter too much. However, you send me a PM when you are ready and I may fire up my evil axpw-buyinator and Dr. Doofenshmirtz this joint with you.
    20 Aug 2012, 12:08 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    I just added again...
    I think I'm beyond the point where I can talk to my wife about it...
    My socks disappeared sometime in December...
    However, I think I've approximately tripled my share count since then...

     

    ... if this is what it feels like to run a hedge that takes big risky positions... I can see how it would be fun... doing it with other people's money - LOL
    20 Aug 2012, 12:17 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    It takes a big pair of brass teslacles.
    20 Aug 2012, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Brass???

     

    And I thought dripping hot wax on them hurt ...

     

    (apologies for getting a little too racy for some)
    20 Aug 2012, 12:29 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2268) | Send Message
     
    Does the risk of brass teslacles include bricking?

     

    Do men with brass teslacles suffer range anxiety?
    20 Aug 2012, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Was that an intentional Musk-ian mispelling JP?
    20 Aug 2012, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I'm so embarrassed. I guess it just goes to show what happens when I forget to use the spell checker.

     

    Alternative answer – Even the best of men can't resist the occasional pun, even if we were taught as children that a pun is the lowest form of humor.
    20 Aug 2012, 12:34 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1960) | Send Message
     
    To make the purchase or to talk to his wife about it? The former and my brass should be on display, the latter and I might as well tuck them between my legs
    20 Aug 2012, 12:48 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    The Life and Times of Metroneanderthal:

     

    Partner: What are you looking at on the internet?

     

    Metroneanderthal: Oh nothing, just some sports information. (Switch quickly from Concentrator tab that is open to KU sports tab)

     

    Partner: You weren't looking at Axion again were you?

     

    Metroneanderthal: Oh I was for just a second, but now looking at sports stuff. (sneakily shutting Concentrator tab leaving only the KU tab visible when she comes to computer to check the truth of my statement).

     

    Partner: You aren't thinking about buying more stock, are you? What's with this obsession!

     

    Metroneanderthal: Oh no, just getting ready to take Mick (the dog) for a walk. (Drive to local McDonald's with dog where they have wi-fi and can watch all Axion related information in peace)
    20 Aug 2012, 03:06 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Metro: that was good for a chuckle, which I need today. Running on about 2 hours sleep as my computers seem to have developed a mind of their own the last few days and have either struck against management or threatened to do so.

     

    I need Granville to come give me hand with the "negotiations".

     

    HardToLove
    20 Aug 2012, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Doesn't that drive you nuts HTL? I can't stand it when a computer refuses to do what I tell it to when I tell it. I'm a decent geek, but there are times when I would like to just throw one out the window.

     

    In the manufacturing business I ran we had a standing rule that if you reworked an item 3 times and it still didn't work right you could take it outside and smash it with a hammer.
    20 Aug 2012, 04:21 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, especially since one was a mainboard with a 6-core AMD bought in January - three year warranty. But a pain. Everything works except the video. I seriously considered just using one of my other computers an X-client and run it over the LAN. But with my recent luck, it would crap out at the worst possible time. Might as well get if fixed properly.

     

    HardToLove.

     

    P.S. I like big hammers.
    20 Aug 2012, 04:25 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Not as long as the daily average is 2 minutes.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 08:47 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (821) | Send Message
     
    Jon,
    I think I might be in one of those catagories you have mentioned! I have been adding a little this morning and picked up another 10k shares about 30 minutes ago but I am all for the rocking the boat idea or even putting an auger to the bottom side to assist!!

     

    357
    20 Aug 2012, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    We have all had ample opportunity to purchase shares below the price of those that participated in the last round of financing. Mea culpa.
    20 Aug 2012, 01:47 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Yep Jon, Few can complain about the price of the last offering.

     

    I haven't heard anyone here complaining yet that they over paid! :))

     

    And yet. I understand the disappointment as I sit here and nod off from all the action in the SP. Maybe we need to plan a redecoration as a back-up plan in case the paint dries. If it dried what the heck would we have to look forward to.

     

    http://bit.ly/RbXSRR
    20 Aug 2012, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Ummm... things to look forward to...

     

    ... buying Maya cigars...
    ... taking JP out for dinner while on vacation...
    ... neurotically conversing about how long to hold instead of how low to buy...
    ...guessing about who is buying, and how much they're intending to buy, instead of about who is selling, and how much they have left to sell...

     

    eh... you're right... probably not worth waiting for ;-)
    20 Aug 2012, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    adding to the list of things to look forward to since no one else jumped in with it...

     

    upgrading HTL to a lead-carbon-coated tin foil hat...
    (c) Axion outside
    20 Aug 2012, 03:02 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    That might do the trick, a lead-foil hat with bio-nano-carbon electrode surfaces inside and out.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:05 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Well, it would be counter productive as the PbC materials are self-balancing and we know a good conspiracy theory depends heavily on an imbalance somewhere (details available from your local TFH distributor) ...

     

    "Be right there Doc!".

     

    hardToLove
    20 Aug 2012, 03:18 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    But the bio-nano-carbon's ability to capacitively adsorb electrons at a phenomenal rate would no doubt play havoc with radio frequencies.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:26 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2268) | Send Message
     
    Not if the transmissions are made with green electrons. They pass right through.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:31 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Ew, I forgot about the electron differentiation capability of the PbC.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Do they throw up on you as they pass?

     

    HardToLove
    20 Aug 2012, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Ahhh Green electrons. Ya gotta love em. Let's check in over in Deutschland and see how the Green is growing.

     

    Merkel’s Green Shift Forces Germany to Burn More Coal

     

    http://bit.ly/NcAgxn

     

    Err maybe Japan. Nope.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I think your link is broke.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:42 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Oops. Thanks!

     

    http://bloom.bg/NcAJQ5
    20 Aug 2012, 03:45 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    did someone say broke... http://bit.ly/NViGdy
    20 Aug 2012, 03:46 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2268) | Send Message
     
    No, HTL, they don't throw up on you, but you may need a tin foil cup.

     

    One good surge can brick your brass teslacles.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:51 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Yep! There's even a lot of songs about that - here's a fav.

     

    But they don't know how to spell obviously - artistes! Sheesh.

     

    http://bit.ly/NC6BJn

     

    HardToLove
    20 Aug 2012, 03:54 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Jon, Cute.

     

    And even though I'm not that cultured I'm proud to say I didn't have to use the net to get it! 8oP
    20 Aug 2012, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4810) | Send Message
     
    "a lead-foil hat with bio-nano-carbon electrode surfaces inside and out. "

     

    An electrofying thought!
    20 Aug 2012, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11198) | Send Message
     
    "Hey Moose, Rocco, help the judge find his checkbook."

     

    http://bit.ly/SLHd51

     

    Howard Berkowitz, you have the power to join, or be bought up, before others do.

     

    That's my nebulous definition of the inflection point.

     

    A strategic partner coming, and you are selling?
    21 Aug 2012, 01:15 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    "An electrofying thought!"

     

    Surely (*not* "Shirly") you meant "An electrolyting thought!".

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 08:51 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Other things to look forward to: anybody notice that bids and asks have been making initial moves of stepping up together?

     

    Low volume, little price weakness, just what I was hoping to see.

     

    Buy:sell through 13:42 is 3.42:1 and average price, even after some forays to the lower bounds, $0.3017.

     

    And this is Monday - not traditionally an up day for the market overall.

     

    HardToLove
    20 Aug 2012, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Currently the spread is $.0075, about as big as I've seen in a while. In my experience wider spreads are indicative of tightening supply that puts the MMs in a position where they want a little more rubber for the perceived risk.
    20 Aug 2012, 02:52 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    0.3075, I ain't payin no 0.3075. Well I could'a gotten tons of it for 0.3. Let me know when it's .2999.

     

    Glug glug flip! ;)

     

    We need some event. Maybe someone should sneak into the NS Altoona yard and bribe someone to get the Rail King and drag the NS999 3 mm closer to the shop door.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:03 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    in my opinion... at this point we might be better off paying .33 than .30...

     

    could start getting some mo-mo folks back in then with confirmation that we've put in a new (and higher) low... and put some pressure on the fence-sitters...

     

    just a theory while watching the grass seeds start to grow fresh buds
    20 Aug 2012, 03:14 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Don't now Jon. Maybe it's better to give it a little time looking at the other players to see if they throw off some tells.

     

    Oops just got a couple.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:18 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    HTL, I am pleased to see the peasants defending the other side of the wall.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    yeah, the tide has turned. We've acquired some boiling oil and placed in on the parapets and have "pushers" to repel the ladders when the barbarians start trying to scale the walls.

     

    And there's a *huge* mama-jama drain plug at the bottom of the moat that when we yank it they won't be "around and around" very long.

     

    Spin direction dependent on hemisphere.

     

    HardToLove
    20 Aug 2012, 03:59 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    "Spin direction dependent on hemisphere." ;)

     

    http://bit.ly/NVmLyi
    20 Aug 2012, 04:09 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    I'll bet you're murder on urban myths too! Spoilsport!

     

    HardToLove
    20 Aug 2012, 04:20 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Actually I've been meaning to look it up because I thought that the coriolis effect was quite low. Now we know.

     

    I said it before. You learn something new every day. We just had a class together. My first experience in distance learning! :)
    20 Aug 2012, 04:24 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Surprised I got the .3001.

     

    Interesting standoff at the moment
    21115@.30 by 30000 (at least) @.307[45]

     

    On the other hand, looks like a lot of supply at around .3075
    5 different market makers offering there

     

    340K volume at this hour used to be considered pretty good ..
    20 Aug 2012, 02:51 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    WTB: This is pretty normal, IMO, after a pop of some kind, in this case *not* price. It was the pop in buy:sell and shorts with the volume.

     

    This is progressing as I'd hoped, so far, after the 8/14-8/17 stuff.

     

    Need things to settle a bit and then movement with improving volume. But first volume needs to hit a nadir with little price movement.

     

    That' my best assessment.

     

    HardToLove
    20 Aug 2012, 03:03 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (821) | Send Message
     
    HTL,

     

    I continue to nibble away on the bait at this level, I have similar beliefs and am feeling pretty comfortable (at the moment) that $.30 is appearing to be a pretty hard coral rock bottom and most of the mushy bottom is washed away with the currents and tides! I am waiting for the bait to be raised off the floor a little higher and then I believe the Groupers will start to become interested too!

     

    I just returned from fishing in the Keys for a week and chasing lobsters around. We caught some nice groupers, yellowtail snappers, mangro snappers, 3 sharks and about 125 lobsters! Now I am ready to munch on some AXPW!!!

     

    357
    20 Aug 2012, 03:12 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (821) | Send Message
     
    Another 70k blasting away at $.30! Still have some mushy bottom left it appears! ha!

     

    357
    20 Aug 2012, 03:21 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, that's why i'm looking for reducing volume *without* accompanying price weakness. I'm thinking it might be what tells us the biggies are really done selling.

     

    Sounds like you had too much fun. You need to go back to work to recuperate, right? ;-)) As prep, you can watch the growing grass watching Axion pps.

     

    HardToLove
    20 Aug 2012, 03:45 PM Reply Like
  • alsobirdman
    , contributor
    Comments (433) | Send Message
     
    Nice. I've got two little guys sitting on my shoulders, ala "Animal House". One says "Buy More", the other says "No, you are way overweight as it is".

     

    However, I never put more money into anything than I can afford to lose completely. I just may have to drink a cheaper brand of Scotch if this fails.

     

    Nah.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:53 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (821) | Send Message
     
    Very True, this is so much more fun and exciting sitting here watching the grass grow instead of playing in the Keys! Actually I am addicted to watching many different types of grass growing but when the roots finally take hold and the pps starts to really sprout it is all worth it!

     

    357
    20 Aug 2012, 03:55 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    Note to self: if you're going to hit the ask again, do it at 3:59 pm.
    20 Aug 2012, 03:53 PM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (821) | Send Message
     
    Jon, it is now 3:57, get ready!

     

    357
    20 Aug 2012, 03:58 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    Going through a significant level of research to make a higher order coconut shell. And what? Those god like lithium ion batteries don't have good enough DCA?

     

    Batteries Made From World’s Thinnest Material Could Power Tomorrow’s Electric Cars

     

    "Rechargeable Li-ion batteries are the industry standard for mobile phones, laptop and tablet computers, electric cars, and a range of other devices. While Li-ion batteries have a high energy density and can store large amounts of energy, they suffer from a low power density and are unable to quickly accept or discharge energy. This low power density is why it takes about an hour to charge your mobile phone or laptop battery, and why electric automobile engines cannot rely on batteries alone and require a supercapacitor for high-power functions such as acceleration and braking."

     

    http://bit.ly/P9OtGX
    20 Aug 2012, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco: "and why electric automobile engines ..."

     

    I'm always suspicious of one that doesn't know the difference between an "engine" and a "motor", except for Richard Petty and his ilk.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 09:01 AM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    HTL, Ahhh "rum runners". Fire up the motor Clive. We got a bundle of graphene in the trunk to deliver to the boys at MIT. :)

     

    BTW, I did visit this institution a couple years ago for family reasons. It seems like a fine institution.

     

    One thing I did smile about though. When they walked us by and through the dorms the temperature was hotter than heck inside and the students were all using the windows for regulation. Such a fine sight while walking through a heavy concentration of tomorrows leaders in the green revolution! :))
    21 Aug 2012, 10:35 AM Reply Like
  • Stilldazed
    , contributor
    Comments (3700) | Send Message
     
    HTL,
    Watch out, your going to stir up the NASCAR crowd. ;-)
    21 Aug 2012, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Nah - I've been down here so long ('75) that I'm almost "family". Down here that's just a "colloquialism" and the "gearheads" and others do know the difference.

     

    But if and when they publish, like Monte Dutton does, they tend to use more technically correct language as they fear those "Damn Yankees" (most in Cary, the "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees", NC) wont't unnerstan'. They's some dumm summbiches.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 12:08 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    HTL,
    Don't kid yourself. It doesn't matter how long we've been down here. If you weren't born in the South, you all aren't no Southerner!
    ;-)
    21 Aug 2012, 01:29 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    LabTech: well, if we extend the Mason-Dixon west, I was born further south and my home town is also further south.

     

    'Course, I know it's not a geographic issue.

     

    But when I moved here I found acceptance when they figured out my "accent" warn't a New Yawk accent.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 01:34 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13581) | Send Message
     
    HTL, there's "south" and then there's "Southern"...

     

    LOL, and once upon a time I made a great deal of money for my employer dealing with some yankee shapies who thought that a southern accent = stupid. The more critical the negotiations became, the slower I talked and the deeper my drawl became, until...

     

    Snap.
    21 Aug 2012, 02:58 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >tripleblack ... Funny how that works.
    21 Aug 2012, 03:03 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Yep. I think it funny how when they "dance" with somebody that couldn't possibly be trying to outsmart them they often get outsmarted.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 03:17 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    HTL, What are we talking about investing? :))
    21 Aug 2012, 03:25 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Anyone got a good hold on whether Q3 flooded battery sales could increase much?

     

    As I recall there was money spent to improve the production equipment, but I don't know whether it was "all in" and reflected for the entire quarter.

     

    Guess as to margins on that part of the biz ... would it matter much if they did increase them?
    20 Aug 2012, 06:06 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    WTB, I would expect continued strength in flooded sales in Q3 as they would inventory build going into the cold weather season. Since we had a very positive (for sales) summer this further supports this theory.

     

    This assumes they have a customer that is not ramping their need up or down based on their internal plans.

     

    I don't think this will have much of an impact on margins unless they are starting up a B shift in which case they would have a high probability of declining for a short period.
    20 Aug 2012, 07:30 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    My estimate of flooded sales in Q4-11 was $2,556,390, or about 20% higher than the $2,091,415 I estimated for Q2-12. While some assume that the flooded sales are for automotive, I don't know that we've ever heard what applications the flooded batteries are being built for.

     

    The gross profit margin was 12% in Q1 and Q2. While I'd expect the margins to be pretty thin on the toll contract, I can't think of any way to estimate what the margins are on flooded vs PbC and other.
    20 Aug 2012, 11:12 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >WTB ... I would think that this coming winter, 2012-2013, could be a great LAB winter. I've started buying some Exide & JCI (I know I should just pick one, but ...) because there is a better than even chance that the next 3 winters will be more "normal". Like back in the 1970's. I've read some detailed report and I'm sure y'all have better ways to spend your time so I'm linking a quick reading summary from a meteorologist I like & covers the highlights.

     

    http://bit.ly/Nh77fO

     

    With a slow economy, reduced mileage driven and cold weather, this could be a comeback year for battery maker share price.
    20 Aug 2012, 07:55 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4810) | Send Message
     
    DR, thanks for the link. One comment on remarks made there (http://bit.ly/Nh77fO)
    <
    "If we put together the combination of La Nina, El Nino, La Nina again and we look at what happened when that happened before with a cold Pacific, and we also understand that the volcanoes may be involved along with the low sunspot activity, one could come to the conclusion that a series of very cold winters... could be on the way," he said.
    <
    Bastardi's reference to "low sunspot activity" may be a bit confusing to some/many readers since most solar sunspot forecasts I am aware of project the current cycle of sunspot activity (solar cycle 24) to peak this coming Winter. But, as can be seen at http://1.usa.gov/NYL3WO, solar experts generally expect that solar cycle 24 to be a weak one. From the NASA projection page,
    "The current predicted size makes this the smallest sunspot cycle in about 100 years."
    20 Aug 2012, 09:19 PM Reply Like
  • User432382
    , contributor
    Comments (89) | Send Message
     
    New, short Axion article out:

     

    http://bit.ly/NC3FAU

     

    Had to sign up for a free trial membership. One quote from TG that's music to my ears: "... the next six months are going to be unlike any other in the company's history".
    20 Aug 2012, 08:40 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    I logged in and read the article. Must have been a very short interview with TG. I'm guessing not one of their better efforts in providing market intelligence.
    20 Aug 2012, 09:19 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4810) | Send Message
     
    As did I, metro. But, I found it more than a bit interesting to read that a "very large" U.S. auto OEM has begun testing PbCs while only discussion about tests are under way with a large Asian OEM. And to see him quoted as saying, "... the next six months are going to be unlike any other in the company's history."

     

    Optimism evident in the CC has carried over to present. But, I understood his remarks in the CC as indicating the Asian OEM had already begun testing PbCs and other activity was going on with a U.S. OEM. Time to re-visit the CC recording.
    20 Aug 2012, 09:58 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (958) | Send Message
     
    As the world turns...um...as the paint dries!

     

    The Energy Subsidy Tally
    http://on.wsj.com/SeSkGj
    20 Aug 2012, 08:45 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (958) | Send Message
     
    John

     

    Do you think the Trefis Team are lurkers?
    I seem to have heard these risks before!

     

    "You can find additional Trefis price estimate of $41 for Tesla. We are in the process of modifying the price estimate based on recent updates."

     

    Tesla Motors: Three Risks That Could Affect Our Price Estimate

     

    http://onforb.es/OSOkfm

     

    "...three broad risks to our views on Tesla:...(3.) Financial Position and Future Plans Heavily Linked to Model S Success..."
    20 Aug 2012, 08:50 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    They might be lurking, but they're certainly not comprehending. As near as I can tell Tesla's working capital went negative at the beginning of the month and its stockholders equity will be negative by the end of the month.

     

    Think about it. Axion has a stronger balance sheet than Tesla with less ambitious spending plans.
    20 Aug 2012, 11:29 PM Reply Like
  • Edmund Metcalfe
    , contributor
    Comments (3951) | Send Message
     
    re' lithium DCA shortcoming:
    "The Korean method takes the cathode material — standard lithium manganese oxide (LMO) in this case — and soaks it in a solution containing graphite. Then, by carbonizing the graphite-soaked LMO, the graphite turns into a dense network of conductive traces that run throughout the cathode. This new cathode is then packaged normally, with an electrolyte and graphite anode, to create the fast-charging li-ion battery. Other factors, such as the battery’s energy density and cycle life seem to remain unchanged."

     

    excerpt from:
    http://bit.ly/TQRpf4

     

    Based on the following pay-walled Angewandte Chemie article available from Wiley:
    Carbon-Coated Single-Crystal LiMn2O4 Nanoparticle Clusters as Cathode Material for High-Energy and High-Power Lithium-Ion Batteries†

     

    Sanghan Lee,
    Yonghyun Cho,
    Prof. Hyun-Kon Song,
    Prof. Kyu Tae Lee,
    Prof. Jaephil Cho*

     

    Article first published online: 2 AUG 2012

     

    DOI: 10.1002/anie.201203581
    20 Aug 2012, 11:39 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The most relevant quote in my view says "Being able to charge quickly is convenient, but it doesn’t get around the fact that li-ion battery packs are incredibly expensive — and the Korean carbonized LMO battery certainly won’t be cheap."

     

    Ultimately all the talk of fast charging lithium-ion is a bit on the nutty side because of the immense amount of current fast charge will require. Charging a 60 kWh battery in an hour takes a 60 kW current.
    21 Aug 2012, 12:16 AM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (10429) | Send Message
     
    Which can easily be accomplished by a larger stationary battery, which is probably the plan Elon has for coupling SolarCity with Tesla fast charge stations in his upcoming fast charge announcement. Slow charge the large battery with solar, and grid tie when needed, then dump charge it into vehicles when needed.
    21 Aug 2012, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The economics of using batteries to replace a fuel tank are dismal.

     

    The economics of using two complete sets of batteries, a relatively small one to replace a fuel tank and a really big one to replace a fuel station are beyond obscene.

     

    Technically feasible? Perhaps.

     

    Economically sensible? Don't make me giggle.
    21 Aug 2012, 09:53 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    Don't discount it totally - JRP3 just provided a possible unidentified catalyst to our niche?The "high end" electronics and "McMansion" crowd are also likely be the type to own a Fiker or Tesla, they would likely also own a Res PC. There would be an impetus to "upsize" the PC so that they could charge it up at off-peak rates and then do a *fast* charge of the PEV just before setting off for the day.

     

    Only half-jesting here. If someone wants to buy those types of cars in today's (and the future's) world, we have the product that will help them indulge their whimsy at a better TCO and improved flexibility. We are, after all, in business to "make a buck". We can accommodate them.

     

    :-))

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (3121) | Send Message
     
    HTL, a ResPC is only 12kwh. A Tesla is probably 85kwh. With charging losses, one would need 8 ResPCs to charge the car.

     

    "Technically feasible? Perhaps.
    Economically sensible? Don't make me giggle."
    21 Aug 2012, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    HTL,
    I mentioned this a couple concentrators ago. I would think the owners of Fiskers and Teslas would fall within the HUB target market as have money and probably other electronics as well. The conditioned power coming from the HUB while charging the EV could well extend the life of the EV battery - at least this is the spin I would put on it, if some research would support that position.
    21 Aug 2012, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    It only goes 12KwH?

     

    I thought there were larger offerings. I'll have to remember to peek at stuff again before opening my mouth.

     

    However, never giving in without a struggle - they should run the cars most of the time in a relatively narrow(?) SOC range. Maybe it's a high enough band that the needed charge is relatively small?

     

    But without an available larger unit, wouldn't matter anyway I guess.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13581) | Send Message
     
    Most EV's make do with a much smaller battery pack than the maxTeslas (I expect most the Teslas they sell will be more modest, too).
    21 Aug 2012, 03:00 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4810) | Send Message
     
    "I thought there were larger offerings. I'll have to remember to peek at stuff again before opening my mouth."

     

    My interpretation of Axion PR is that the 'PowerCube' is expandable from 10KW to 2+ MW while the HUB is a 10 KW variant of the smallest PC.
    21 Aug 2012, 05:16 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Hm, maybe it's possible then? I'm thinking that the differences, other than container size and # of batteries would be the BMS programming, inverters/converters and "priority circuits" equipment.

     

    So, maybe down the road we'll see variants with a little more capacity. There could be a niche market for small inns, motels, etc. that might need more than the current HUB, as a service to their customers as well as keeping all their management services and tools operational through difficult times. Might have direct cost benefits if it's behind the meter and allows participation in peak shaving, demand response (negawatts?), ... Maybe even making AE cost-justified so they could advertise being a "green" establishment?

     

    PR too - "7 PEV charging stations available for your Fisker, Tesla, ...". :-)) Well, smaller inns and motels might not get many of those folks. :-((

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 05:37 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11198) | Send Message
     
    I was thinking about medical office buildings, too.
    21 Aug 2012, 05:45 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4810) | Send Message
     
    "So, maybe down the road we'll see variants with a little more capacity."

     

    In the cc TG said something about providing proposals for systems ranging in size from 50KW to 4 MW.
    21 Aug 2012, 05:57 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (3121) | Send Message
     
    Metro, the battery charging systems for vehicles *should* be quite robust, and not be bothered my sags and harmonics. Unless there is a total fail by the charging engineers, reasonably dirty electricity should not have any impact on battery life.

     

    The ResPC (or HUB) produces very clean electricity, which is very valuable for electronics, which are much harder than inverters to make robust. High-end audio, high speed communications, home cinema, sophisticated intrusion sensors, home automation, etc. definitely benefit from very clean power. Many devices use the home electric wiring for signaling, which is difficult with dirty juice.
    22 Aug 2012, 12:10 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    Rick,
    So much for my marketing ploy. Thanks for contributing to my battery/electrical education.
    22 Aug 2012, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    With so many electronic things in the home wanting DC, (count the number of wall-warts in an average house these days, not to mention the internal power supplies in every piece of equipment) it seems long overdue for some kind of standard DC wiring / system to become a standard feature in better houses alongside AC...
    22 Aug 2012, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • Rick Krementz
    , contributor
    Comments (3121) | Send Message
     
    The Residential and Industrial PCs have two totally different electronics. The ResPC is continuous double conversion, ie, 120AC to 400DC to 120AC. Very stable and clean, no harmonics, continuous electric losses.

     

    The IndPCs are single conversion: 480AC to 480DC or vice versa. The unit is charging OR discharging. The output power, when discharging, should be very clean, but the output is minutes to hours later than the incoming dirty power. When neither charging or discharging, the electric losses are only the battery management system and monitoring electronics.

     

    Both versions can be ganged in parallel for larger capacity.
    22 Aug 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • gottliep
    , contributor
    Comments (40) | Send Message
     
    Not sure if noted before, but saw a new job listing on Axion website tonight. In addition to ISO Coordinator/Senior Quality Assurance Technician, new listing for Maintenance Technician-Fabricator.
    21 Aug 2012, 12:26 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3221) | Send Message
     
    gottliep--yep, been posted already, but thanks.
    21 Aug 2012, 11:58 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW): EOD stuff.
    # Trds: 58, MinTrSz: 200, MaxTrSz: 50000, Vol 427246, AvTrSz: 7366
    Min. Pr: 0.3000, Max Pr: 0.3050, VW Avg. Tr. Pr: 0.3013
    # Buys, Shares: 29 257576, VW Avg Buy Pr: 0.3021
    # Sells, Shares: 28 168670, VW Avg Sell Pr: 0.3001
    # Unkn, Shares: 1 1000, VW Avg Unk. Pr: 0.3025
    Buy:Sell 1.53:1 (60.3%), DlyShts 217826 (51.0%), Dly Sht % of ”sells” 129.14%

     

    First, note the extreme price range compression, the buy:sell remaining positive and the continued fall in the volume. I’m always comforted when things are behaving as I expected. This reinforces my belief that we are in the process of exiting the previous consolidation trend. Up or down is unknown, but when I combine that with JP’s tracked values for shares in the big sellers hands, I’m leaning heavily toward transiting to an uptrend. There is a possibility that we just move to another sideways range, based on past behavior, but I think it’s less likely than in the past because of the obvious continued progress by the company and the beginnings of greater awareness by the market, due to a few recent articles I guess. This would be supported if the big sellers were either exhausted shortly or at least on hiatus for an extended period.

     

    Special Situations remains a concern because, as I’ve mentioned in the past, I think they are acting more like swing traders now. If they’ve been accumulating and we do move substantially higher, they would likely pick a price point at which to sell and hold price down. How much effect would they have? It really depends on market sentiment at the time and the volume and direction of pressure resulting from that. Might be no more than John’s “speed bump” if buying pressure is really strong at the time.

     

    Looking at the daily short sales, Friday was quite high but barely exceed the 3/19 value (62% vs. 62.3%). This is a change in that the short sales spikes since 3/19 had been exceeding 3/19’s value in every case by a healthy margin. This might lend credence to the thoughts that the big sellers’ strength is being sapped. As with the previous spikes, this one will also likely exhibit a choppy trend down, which began to show Monday.

     

    Average trade size remains “healthy”, ending Monday right at the 10 and 25-day average and right on the rising long-term trend line. As mentioned before, the buy:sell 10-day average has recovered nicely and is poised to cross above the 25-day average.

     

    I’ve added daily short as a percent of “sells” to my tracking, although they are not in chart form yet. Unsure of it’s utility as yet, but we did see some potential, which was discussed in a comment replying to Iindelco in the past. For a little context, here are the values since the start of August.

     

    Wed., 8/01: 2.37% 46.91% 0.00%
    Mon., 8/06: 19.99% 33.11% 3.34% 73.89% 33.88%
    Mon., 8/13: 25.13% 3.06% 71.64% 50.47% 393.87%
    Mon., 8/20: 129.14%
    Avg: 63.34%, min: 0.00%, max: 393.87%

     

    The “pop” in that figure Friday suggested, to me, that something is happening. In the discussion of this in the comment I noted that the average had returned to the ranges seen prior to the Mega-C shares entering the market. Note also that Monday’s value dropped to about 1/3rd of Friday’s. Is it possible that the “pop” and re-trace (maybe moving back to the pre-Mega-C shares averages?) suggest that indeed, as JP has been forecasting, the big sellers are about out of ammo? Here are the monthly averages.

     

    Feb Avg: 54.68%, min: 0.35%, max: 200.89%
    Mar Avg: 49.86%, min: 0.70%, max: 252.30%
    Apr Avg: 31.50%, min: 0.00%, max: 74.35%
    May Avg: 62.73%, min: 0.00%, max: 398.94%

     

    Then the Mega-C shares entered market? Note the hefty change in both the averages and maximums.

     

    Jun Avg: Avg: 183.48%, min: 5.05%, max: 1607.50%
    Jul Avg: 176.07%, min: 7.75%, max: 1273.20%
    Aug (through 8/16) Avg: 30.32%, min: 0.00%, max: 73.89% (excludes Fri.)

     

    Putting everything together, I’m leaning “constructive” on the coming trend.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 08:45 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3221) | Send Message
     
    The additional AXPW exposure that I hope JP's The Street.com articles provide should be very helpful. We already have a few EVangelicals posting now, though. Get ready for a flood?
    21 Aug 2012, 10:30 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    These concentrators are dedicated to discussions among investors who want to learn more about Axion Power. They are a refuge from the hopium addled blather one has to endure on public forums. The Axion Power Host has the power to delete any and all comments that wander off into irrelevancy or disrupt the flow of useful information. I have every confidence that an EVangelical infestation would be promptly exterminated.
    21 Aug 2012, 10:40 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    for some...
    - there will be doubt

     

    for some...
    - there will be purchases of other ideas to hedge their bets

     

    for some...
    - reason will triumph over faith

     

    for some...
    - stock valuation will begin to matter

     

    for some...
    - we can only be polite and charitable in respect of their religious freedom
    21 Aug 2012, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Maya ...

     

    is there room in your Indy schedule for a visit to Indy Power Systems?

     

    I was unimpressed that their address is not on their website:
    http://bit.ly/ShptkL

     

    Although according to
    http://bit.ly/OuEf5o

     

    it's
    7702 Moller Road
    Indianapolis, IN 46268-4163

     

    http://bit.ly/ShpvJ9

     

    Even a drive-by parking lot activity level would be interesting to me and perhaps others here. Perhaps you can figure out for sure where they do their manufacturing via conversation ...

     

    Have you heard whether anyone from IPS is going to to be at the conference?
    21 Aug 2012, 10:32 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    For you TA types where HTL is a nice start, but just not enough :-)

     

    http://bit.ly/zPTNxJ
    21 Aug 2012, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    WTB: LoL! Do I now have license to become (even more) "verbose"? ;-))

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3221) | Send Message
     
    XIDE's having a(nother) nice day today. Up about 7%. Yep, another data point saying our sector overall may be bottoming, and in some individual stk cases, the rebound is well underway.
    21 Aug 2012, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Europe and Euro rebounding, dollar down.

     

    Since XIDE sells a lot in Europe but based in US, I think those might be factors.

     

    But any battery company going up is a welcome development!
    21 Aug 2012, 11:15 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    MrI: keep an eye on it. It has a tendency a lot to rocket and retreat substantially intra-day. It also used to have a tendency to follow, directionally but not in amplitude, the $SPX moves. I've not checked for a long while so I don't know if it has returned to that behavior.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 12:44 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    My tracking charts have XIDE turning the corner after a brutal sell-down with the 10-, 20-, 50- and 200-day VWMAs all within an $.08 range from $2.99 to $3.07. This beast could run like a scalded cat.
    21 Aug 2012, 01:02 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Sadly, I note our friends from EGRO (Emerging Growth) are back on the offer presenting 5K at .305.

     

    Total of 15K at .305 from ARCA, EGRO, and NITE. Probably a lot more.

     

    TEJS is next at 5K @ .3075 then
    UBSS 20K at .3097

     

    Best bid has inched up a little
    ATDF .10K @ 3025

     

    I think ATDF has mostly been smaller retail types.

     

    Volume ... meh ... 42.5K
    21 Aug 2012, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1288) | Send Message
     
    we should expect volume to tapir off before we get a price move.

     

    ask yourself who sells at these prices with buy side orders so strong? distressed sellers. when volume dies down they are forced to reprice or wait.
    21 Aug 2012, 11:10 AM Reply Like
  • RBrun357
    , contributor
    Comments (821) | Send Message
     
    The question I would love to have answered is how many shares are hiding behind the 15k being shown offered at $.305!

     

    10k more, 50k more, 100k more, 1 million more?????
    21 Aug 2012, 11:15 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I've never gotten that answer from anything but the rearview mirror.
    21 Aug 2012, 11:20 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (1288) | Send Message
     
    more interested in shares avail under and above .305 because they include the sellers at this price in both cases. no bonus is offered to a seller for the sell price of .305. volume and how it effects of the future of the stock price is material.

     

    if shares ARE being accumulated into strong hands selling pressure should ease up as prices move downward. prices remaining the same tell us nothing about who is selling but a decrease in volume at these prices will motivate today's buyers to raise their offer and today's sellers to lower price.
    21 Aug 2012, 11:56 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (3221) | Send Message
     
    Adding that 50k of selling that just occured to the 30k offered thru NITE = 80k shares, which also = the obvious daily selling we had a couple weeks ago. About 80k shares at least 5 days in a row, until the selling became enshrouded in the fog of other selling.
    21 Aug 2012, 12:05 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    WTB: those guys have been back and predominate the last several days.

     

    You're seeing a continuation, not a change by their presence.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    RBrun: we'll never know. There was an SEC rule change that required full presentation of quantities but it had so many loopholes that it was a waste of the paper and ink, much less the time, effort and taxpayer money to craft (oxymoron?) it, IMO. And there's not much chance of enforcement action regardless with our supposed "watchdog".

     

    *Some* MMs seem to be homoring it most of the time while others never have AFAICT - NITE, ARCA, EDG*, ... all the biggies.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • Al Marshall
    , contributor
    Comments (631) | Send Message
     
    I went to thestreet.com to look for JP's article. Couldn't find it but did find an 8/16/12 review by Anton Wahlman of the Tesla S and could resist posting the following:

     

    "Having driven the Tesla Model S on the neighborhood roads back-to-back not only against most of the other electric cars in the market today, but also comparing it against other premium cars such as Rolls Royce Corniche, I came to this startling conclusion: The Tesla Model S is so superior that it seems that it's just a matter of time until all the other car companies will have to file bankruptcy."

     

    I don't know, but somewhere in that article I'm sure JP can find some material to comment upon ;)

     

    On a more serious note, if the Tesla Model S is as good as the review says, it will be a very interesting case study. Yes, the brick issue, cold weather operating, and the fire issues do distort things a little bit, but if rich California car folks don't buy it, then it would seem that there is not a market for an electric car until a dramatically improved battery is invented/developed.
    21 Aug 2012, 11:39 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I have no basis to comment on whether the Model S is a good car. In fact, I assume it's every bit as wonderful as everybody says it is. I see a big difference, however, in building a great car and building a great business. My back of the napkin calculations say that Tesla's working capital went negative at the beginning of the month and its stockholders equity will go negative at the end of the month. While the data points are few and far between it appears that the production ramp was easier in the forecasting than it is in the execution.

     

    Delays cost money; lots of money. When a company that's planning on a "cash low point" of $X spends 3X or 4X because of delays, it's like a barn storming pilot that miscalculated the pull-up point and crashes into the ground at terminal velocity.

     

    From a simplistic risk-reward perspective, I see a very limited short-term upside and an unlimited short-term downside. Roulette wheels are fine when the risk of loss is 1 and the potential payoff is 36. If the risk of loss and potential payoff are both 1, I see a suckers bet.
    21 Aug 2012, 12:05 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    My article for TheStreet is still on the editor's desk, but I'm hoping for publication in the next day or so. When (if) it's published, I'll post a link.
    21 Aug 2012, 12:08 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4073) | Send Message
     
    And the Tucker was a beautiful car ahead of its time in 1948 http://bit.ly/RzEiS2

     

    ... yet there was no 1949
    http://bit.ly/RzEiS5
    21 Aug 2012, 12:11 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    "Beauty is as beauty does"!

     

    When I was a kid, the mechanic next door had a Henry J with a MoPar hemi in it. BIG FAT tires.

     

    Push-button aluminum(?) Torqueflite(?) tranny.

     

    Nothing inside but what was needed to go straight quite quickly.

     

    It was beautiful to watch him leave for home at night.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 05:41 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    John, This may be of interest to you.

     

    Toshiba develops dysprosium-free samarium-cobalt magnet to replace heat-resistant neodymium magnet in motors

     

    http://bit.ly/MJgBUe
    21 Aug 2012, 11:40 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I'll forward the link to Jack and Gareth. Many thanks.
    21 Aug 2012, 12:07 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I just got the following response from Gareth Hatch:

     

    Oy vey (but thanks :-) )...

     

    As I posted online recently, this is an "Interesting" announcement from Toshiba, considering that standard Sm-Co magnets already do better at higher temperatures than Nd-based magnets, and are already used in such applications. They've been around for well over 40 years, pre-dating Nd-based magnets. The output of Sm-Co magnets is inferior, however, at lower temperatures, and in time the Co cost will dominate material selection. It was the cost of Co that provided the impetus for the work that led to the eventual discovery of iron-based rare-earth magnets (using Nd).

     

    I just love knowing people that are smarter than me.
    21 Aug 2012, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1960) | Send Message
     
    I saw a reply from Gareth on that. I am paraphrasing but he noted that it is an "interesting" announcement given that Samarium-Cobalt magnets have been around for forty years and that the cost of the cobalt was the impetus to go to iron-based magnets using nedoymium.

     

    You can see his comment on the article at the bottom of this link...

     

    http://bit.ly/SjvPkV
    21 Aug 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Beat ya by a minute! I get the gold star.
    21 Aug 2012, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1960) | Send Message
     
    Double or nothing when APH puts up the new APC, then we'll see who has the fastest draw...
    21 Aug 2012, 12:28 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    John, Thanks for sharing that. I don't follow the sector immeasurably but I know you have your "toe in the water" so if I bump into something I pass it on.

     

    See, I was rewarded with some interesting feedback from someone that is very knowledgeable in the field!

     

    I think I told you that in the distant past I did some cost analysis on using Nd based magnets in passenger vehicles. This was when GM was deciding if they wanted to retain Magnequench. Hard to justify for passenger vehicles especially when gas was under 1 USD/gallon. My small piece was of coarse but one bit of a much larger analysis. In retrospect I'm surprised they gave up control given they did DOD business via their controlled asset Hughes. Anyway, Nuff said.
    21 Aug 2012, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I've never even come close to getting that gold star, so I'll just let you battle for position with the usual suspects.
    21 Aug 2012, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    "Smarter than *I*". ;-))

     

    Do you love me more now?

     

    hardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 01:15 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Don't take the bet John! The deck is stacked! :-))

     

    Now, where'd my grass go - got to keep an eye on that frisky stuff - it'll get away from ya!

     

    BTW, if it's so slow and unexciting, how come it seems every time I turn around it needs mowing?

     

    Maybe we just need to put a mower somewhere near the the OTC exchange (NASDAQ runs the board).

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Ma.

     

    (Mother was an English teacher).
    21 Aug 2012, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    For the TFH'er that feels like they're missing something. I ordered the socks for when I do high voltage electrical work. Protect the feet from RFI and keep your feet on the ground (literally). ;)

     

    HTL might like the hoodie and for the brass discussion crowd.....

     

    http://bit.ly/SjMbdl
    21 Aug 2012, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2268) | Send Message
     
    "SILVERELL® BOXER SHORTS

     

    Generous Cut, Soft as Cotton

     

    Good RF shielding with Rayon and Silver fabric. Elastic waist band. Fly front with 1 button. Very simple design, suitable for men or women. Machine washable. Specify size when ordering: S, M, L, XL."

     

    Now that's what I call brick protection!
    21 Aug 2012, 01:35 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    "Houston, we have a solution..."
    21 Aug 2012, 01:37 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19491) | Send Message
     
    Iindelco, see my response to CO3 on the prior concentrator.

     

    I sure like that site! Heh! Just noticed vehicle ground straps. Used to be on a *lot* of cars eons past.

     

    HardToLove
    21 Aug 2012, 01:39 PM Reply Like
  • iindelco
    , contributor
    Comments (10233) | Send Message
     
    HTL, Looks like you're covered. Well at the WPT anyway. The Unacoder.

     

    Yes, I remember the vehicle ground straps. I also remember often getting out of vehicles without them on low humidity days. Where where those RFI protected gloves with integral ground strap when ya needed em? I could tie the straps in with my socks.
    21 Aug 2012, 01:58 PM Reply Like
  • metroneanderthal
    , contributor
    Comments (1425) | Send Message
     
    The skull cap would be a fashionable accessory for any occasion - especially with a suit and tie.
    21 Aug 2012, 02:47 PM Reply Like
  • Axion Power Host
    , contributor
    Comments (523) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » ...and here it is for you all.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    21 Aug 2012, 01:40 PM Reply Like
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