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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid would need the support of all 58 Senate Democrats and the chamber's two independents to beat back a Republican filibuster. After unveiling his 2,074-page bill late Wednesday, Reid said he was "cautiously optimistic" about moving the measure to the floor.
"The finish line is finally in sight," said Reid, D-Nev., in remarks on the Senate floor on Thursday morning. "I'm confident we'll cross it soon."
Op Ed from WSJ: (Updated 11/10/09) online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487... ________________________________________________________________ Our worst fears are being realized. HR3962 will mandate a health care tax of 2.5% of income. Do you want to opt out? What if it cost up to $250,000 in civil and criminal penalities, and up to five years imprisonment?
Write your representatives today. We can't afford to wait. They may vote as early as Saturday night...
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Jail sounds good. Free food, medical care, lots of free time, mindless repetitive work with no worries.
The punishment is certainly more attractive than the alternative - frenetic work, most gains taken by the government for everything, 2016 cost of the insurance likely to be higher than monthly gross of most if deflation is really at play, no free time, can't afford food and health insurance at the same time, ...
Hm, she must be bringing the policies to the nation that helped get California in the fix it's in now.
OG: I read somewhere else that the vote is going to be tonight. I think it was yesterday's USA Today.
This kind of crap is going to tighten the thumbscrews ever further on small businesses and the middle class. The poor? How are they going to afford this? I'm not sure when, if the bill passes, it will come into effect. But how many unemployed people who living off Uncle Sammy's purse, who in January, will lose their benefits, are going to be able to afford this health tax? With 10.2% unemployment? With 37,343,522 citz already recieving food stamps?*
An up to $250,000 fine? A little quick math: If someone is getting paid $10.00 per hour and works a 40 hour week, 50 weeks of the year, that person makes $20,000/year. So it would take that person 12.5 years to pay off that amount, without one cent for anything else.
Need I write more about how utterly insane this bill is?
This whole things insane. With out a doubt health care is a problem. I have watched my companies premiums go up every year by about 15% to 20% for the last 4 years anyways. I told my insurance agent at some point if this doesn't stop I will have cut benefits to the point where they completely suck or we just don't offer them.
My step daughter had a hairline fracture in her thumb. My wife took her to her doc for a checkup. A week or so later we get the bill they sent our ins co. The X ray was 175.00 and the visit was 250.00. My wife couldn't believe it she explained they were only there for 15 minutes (which she was happy about) and only saw a nurse. She told me I should have been a doctor.
So we discussed what really was the doctors investment as far as materials, utilities, paper, nurses and clerical wages, rent etc probably no where near that. Then I brought up what the group of doctors out there have to pay for medical malpractice insurance.
I would be very interested to see the true breakdown of costs for this $425.00 fifteen minute visit. What % for materials, malpractice, or the costs thrown into cover uninsured now.
AND what would happen to me if next year is a bad year. What if my costs go up to a point where I can't afford them in February when our policy expires. Will I be forced to pay a fine or go to jail?? If the fine is a steep as you say I can tell you emphatically I would be a company with NO employees.
I hope these people (our leaders) are really thinkin this through and all its potential side effects. They have to realize there is only so much money of course I guess they could just print more. There we go problem solved!!
While watching CSPAN, it came out that the bill went from appx. 1000 pages yesterday to 2000 pages today. Sec 340N forgiving loans for veternarians - ~$500M. Biofuels being taxed - that's health care, right?
Makes "Healthcare Czars".
Asked why vet loans forgiven, Dems lady switches topics and doesn't answer.
Just more pork payoffs. Key votes checked off a list. The slush fund pork supply they have in the budget is so huge, they have gigantic bribes for even the most obscure special interest groups.
Our best hope lies in the future - 2010 - I fear we will lose this round in 2009.
On Nov 07 12:40 PM H. T. Love wrote:
> While watching CSPAN, it came out that the bill went from appx. 1000 > pages yesterday to 2000 pages today. Sec 340N forgiving loans for > veternarians - ~$500M. Biofuels being taxed - that's health care, > right? > > Makes "Healthcare Czars". > > Asked why vet loans forgiven, Dems lady switches topics and doesn't > answer. > > HardToLove
Maya - The cost, at 2.5% of gross income, for someone making $10.00 per hour would be $500 per year, assuming they pay for health care. Of course, the assumption that the tax will be on gross income or that there will be no exclusions built into it for the po people, is a big leap. Remember: when you assume something you, often as not, get the result provided by Felix from a memorable episode from the TV series "The Odd Couple." You have to break the work assume down into its three basic parts. When you assume you risk making an "ass" out of "u" and "me."
I'm sorry, but I just love that episode.
Even if there are not yet any loopholes in the law, you can be pretty certain that they will appear before it goes into affect. The very rich will get a cap and the very po will get an exemption, leaving "u" and "me" to pay the bill.
As BAD as it is, just pay the tax. At 2.5%, it's $1,250 for a family making $50000 a year or $1000 for a family making $40000.
This is really more of bill for the insurance companies. The idea is to use a $1,000-$1,250 tax to SCARE people into buying $15,000 of insurance from their "constituents."
Congress is banking on Americans to jump "out of the frying pan and into the fire." Shame on them.
Mark: The Odd Couple was one of my favorites of times past. The dichotomy of Felix and Oscar episode after episode was a joy to watch. I always loved when they played poker.
I'm not so sure that's the way it's going to work for the $10.00/hour worker. The whole breakdown I've yet to study, and, given that this bill is 2000 pages, I doubt the lawmakers fully know what they are voting for. But, I'm wondering how $500.00/year for a person making ten bucks an hour is dealt with when something catastrophic occurs. Nor is it clear to me what damage the employer will be accessed by the bill. A further question is how the handicapped are going to be dealt with. I have a bazillion questions about this bill.
But I've been running around all day and have not had a chance to read anything about the bill more than what I'm reading in this thread, and what I'm reading is infuriating.
Did you read Jim Quinn's assessment and the solutions he volunteered? Great stuff!
What I am sure of, and a part of the bill I do like, is the computerizing of medical records. But, that would have happened anyway. I saw it in action for the first time at my mom's doc's office. Every question he asked, or information that my sister gave him, the live-in gave him, or from myself, was at that moment entered into a laptop by the doctor himself. Every patient room in his office is equipped with a laptop. Cool, eh?
One thing I CAN assume! That DC morons are in charge of my freedoms and my wallet, and have completely forgotten that companies poorly run should go bankrupt, but that's another issue entirely. Another thing I CAN assume, is that DC morons are tracking toward bankrupting this great nation.
Wall Street, the AMA, the insurance companies, drug companies and the politicians are right now giving the future of my beloved USA a thrashing of epic and lasting proportion.
And so...did ya see the runaway hot dog short vid I put in your video thread. That was hilarious!
There are already about 1000 pages of amendments piled on top of the 2000 page bill, and if Pelossi runs true to form, 30 minutes before it comes to a vote she will drop an amendment (cherry on top) in which will include "all the juicy parts", ensuring that no one knows what the heck they are voting on.
It will be months AFTER it is passed before armies of experts can begin to parse the layers of nonsense to get at the truth buried somewhere within.
Rest assured, however, that the INTENT of the framers of this thing have never deviated from their stated purpose, to create conditions that lead to a single-payer system. How far along that path this will propel us will not be known for some time, but I would never imagine for a moment that any other path has been chosen.
All you can do is hope that it extends for another couple of Unemployment numbers. And there are a lot less spineless Senators to call.
They can force you to do this. The only thing we can do is to inform them that everyone voting for it, will be listed afterward and Elections are less than a year away.
Unless, hmmm, "Sitouts" how many people can they Jail if 1,2, 10 million people "Opt out" on their lonesome.
Present a bill that is so appalling, on so many levels, and then let the senate pull enough weeds and dead fur from the monstrosity that everyone feels better when they are fed their shit sandwich.
When the topic was illegal immigration the Dems laughed down their noses at anyone who was naive enough to suggest that we actually, well, ENFORCE our laws. They made fun of the idea of identifying them and using law enforcement resources to address the problem.
Somehow I do NOT expect the same reaction if 20 million Americans just say "No, and I'm not paying any fines, either".
Could this be one of the straws on the camel's back that triggers violence in the streets? Lord, I hope not, but I think it could.
We have already fought two American Revolutionary Wars, and we are 1 win and 1 loss. I really pray we don't go for a tie-breaker!
On Nov 08 08:13 AM Freya wrote:
> All you can do is hope that it extends for another couple of Unemployment > numbers. And there are a lot less spineless Senators to call. <br/> > > They can force you to do this. The only thing we can do is to inform > them that everyone voting for it, will be listed afterward and Elections > are less than a year away. > > Unless, hmmm, "Sitouts" how many people can they Jail if 1,2, 10 > million people "Opt out" on their lonesome.
This Bill allows a Non-physician to evaluate what you need if you are on Medicare. Combine this with "Death" counselling...what is the writng on the wall?
If you were postponing a Major Anything, do it now.
I DO know that this is not a new concept, its been done down along the Mexican border for many years...
But I like the hospital ship wrinkle a lot.
On Nov 08 01:43 PM yellowhoard wrote:
> I've often thought about the feasibility of leasing an old navy hospital > ship and anchoring it 13 miles off the coast of LA or New York.<br/> > > Buy a helicopter and shuttle doctors and patients back and forth > to the ship. > > I'd register the ship in a country with reasonable malpractice laws, > like Singapore, and focus my marketing on upper class wealthy individuals. > > > If this crappy bill goes through, I may have to give it a shot..
I am with an HMO, and I have been wondering what will happen with all this nonsense. If there is ANY real competition for government, it lies in the major HMOs, which operate in a pattern similar to government in many ways.
We will see how all this impacts the two sides of the coin - how many employers start pushing their employees and retirees into the waiting arms of the bureaucrats - and how many private insurers and HMOs withdraw from the market, ceding the field to the government.
I suspect it will not be an all or nothing affair, but haphazard, messy, and more of a death-of-a-thousand-cuts.
On Nov 08 01:29 PM Freya wrote:
> This Bill allows a Non-physician to evaluate what you need if you > are on Medicare. Combine this with "Death" counselling...what is > the writng on the wall? > > If you were postponing a Major Anything, do it now.
Its still iffy that they will get even the milder Senate version through with 60 votes, but they have 50.
Reid can use the "nuclear option" (conciliation, ironically once the boogie man once cited by the Left as what the neocons would do to THEM back a few years when things were reversed) to force it through.
This would, however, require that he shed the polite fiction of polite fellowship the Senate likes to project.
I don't think that the Democrats still believe they can create a pliant Republican fig leaf to hide this particular bill behind - even getting Snowe to vote for the bill would require changes they are unwilling to make.
Reid is now on the bullseye. Pelossi actually had the harder job, with all her Bluedogs yipping at her heels (half of whom just signed their political death warrant by voting for Obamacare, an outcome I suspect Pelossi will never lose sleep over).
On Nov 08 12:08 PM Mayascribe wrote:
> Let's hope and pray that the senate votes with a little more sanity. > Health care is not healthy for our country.
This is a great thread on a not-so-great subject. I wish this whole discussion weren't even necessary!
YH - Let us know when you form the corporation! Great idea!
Maya - I'll go back to my insta in a minute to look at your post. The concept of digital records for medical practices has been around and on the books as a requirement of law since before 2000. The deadline just keeps getting pushed back further and further. It is one of those things that is really necessary but the medical lobby must have a lot of pull so it just hasn't been enforced (what else is new?). I was with an organization that built a system for a federal government agency based upon the mandate going into effect around 2001 (that may have been the second deadline already). So, in effect, they have a created a law that just makes sense from all angles and those who want to adopt it do, but those who do not just ignore it. There's some effective government for you! Of course, maybe there's a provision that enforcement only goes into effect based upon certain factors that are subjective in nature. Maybe they have to check their donor lists first.
One of the biggest issues to health care reform is of course how are we going to pay for it. For example in my little company my guys make between 13 to 24 an hour. Right now they pay 5% of their benefits cost's or around $40.00 a month. This policy period was the first time we made our employees contribute to their benefits.
Whatever fee, tax, assessment, etc the government comes up with will ultimately come out of my employees pockets. I have shouldered some hefty increases over the last several years and can't take a lot more. So either I raise my price's (which I don't see that happening) or I make my guys and gals take paycuts. It's a crappy situation either way you go.
You know one other thing. The timing of this whole thing couldn't come at a better time for business. NOT If sales were booming or at least going slightly upward this all might be ever so slightly more easy to swallow.
Lets hope we still have some sane people in Washington.
On Nov 08 01:43 PM yellowhoard wrote:
> I've often thought about the feasibility of leasing an old navy hospital > ship and anchoring it 13 miles off the coast of LA or New York.<br/>
I know some of you advocated the push to computerize our records. I submit it is the individual doctor's office or the individual who is seeking treatment that ought to do this. I do not believe that a national database is necessary and it is an assault on individual freedom and privacy.
OG: Believe me when I say this. Mom has six different doctors, spent much time in a two hospitals, and months in a convalescent rehab. Not one office or medical facility knew what the medications were, or the dosages, or the changes to her medication from previous visits. Nor, what was wrong with mom, and what had developed since the previous visit. Further, if one were to have an accident in another state, the intensive care units could bring up allergies, and issue drugs accordingly. Too many people die because a hospital does not know the allergies. My grandfather died this way, as did my cousin.
I have mom's meds on Excel. The doctor's offices learn from me and my sister. They have no way of being updated and current before the visit occurs. First thing I do when I arrive to a doctor's office, is give the doctor the updated spread sheet.
If you would have gone through what I've been through for the past five or six years, you might change your mind. I believe the only medical records that should be retained within one place are those where people go to rehab from drugs, alcoholism, etc, or temporary mental illness.
I can clearly see the benefits of getting rid of mountains of paper. A medical system that communicates properly may help to diagnose disease etc quicker and better. However I see your point. If you could be sure that your information could never be used against you in any way it could be a good thing. The problem is there is no way the government can guaranty that. Also aren't the architects of this believers in Eugenics?
On Nov 08 07:01 PM optionsgirl wrote:
> I know some of you advocated the push to computerize our records. > I submit it is the individual doctor's office or the individual who > is seeking treatment that ought to do this. I do not believe that > a national database is necessary and it is an assault on individual > freedom and privacy.
I would have no problem with a voluntary program, under the control of the individual. Making it mandatory kills the idea for me. Even under the voluntary program, real rules (amounting to a Constitutional right to privacy) would be needed to sell me personally. Otherwise we will just see a line of insurance companies, unscrupulous corporations, and bureaucrats waiting to plug in and abuse the data.
On Nov 08 07:01 PM optionsgirl wrote:
> I know some of you advocated the push to computerize our records. > I submit it is the individual doctor's office or the individual who > is seeking treatment that ought to do this. I do not believe that > a national database is necessary and it is an assault on individual > freedom and privacy.
Come to think of it, mom has eleven doctors. I forgot her ear, nose and throat, the hearing aide doctor, the podiatrist, her orthopedic doc, and her dermatologist.
Thanks for the reminder. Have to call the foot doc tomorrow.
Of course they want to keep track of you, and IBM will make a lot of money helping (notice the commercials lately?).
And the new generations will think it's really "cool". Well...until the government uses it against them; tells them they will have to have a "co-pay" for their condition, tell them they can't have kids (bad for the gene pool) or that they can get treatment, they just have to travel 1,200 miles to get it.
And then the system will be manipulated to make certain that anyone who is responsible gets taxed out the colon, Congress gets special treatment, and illegals and un-identifiables get treated "out of compassion".
On Nov 08 07:01 PM optionsgirl wrote:
> I know some of you advocated the push to computerize our records. > I submit it is the individual doctor's office or the individual who > is seeking treatment that ought to do this. I do not believe that > a national database is necessary and it is an assault on individual > freedom and privacy.
Digital records? Is THAT what the problem is? Is that why we are paying so much for our pretty mediocre medical care? Geeze, I didn't realize it would be so easy to fix. (And, stupid me, I thought a sharp pin was all we needed, a share legislative pin, to let the air out of the medical cartel's bubble! I guess you learn something new every day...)
Obama wants to 'fix' everything without stepping on anyone's toes. It can't be done. Some big toes are going to have to be crushed. Some big toes are even going to have to be cut off. (At least we'll have digitized medical records to make sure the doctors cut off the right big toes.)
They tried that once, but the bill to limit the size of bills ran well over 50,000 pages including 2 instructions to start again at page 1 and three pick your own adventure scenarios. The bill really got tied up in committee when senators couldn't decide if they wanted to go with Zorak to ask the prince about the sword or stay on the farm and look for the chalice... But hey, at least they tried to do what was in our best interest.
On Nov 07 05:46 PM lower98th wrote:
> The first thing Congress should do is pass a law requiring all Bills > to be no mre than one page. Heck, most should be one sentence.
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ABOUT HEALTHCARE REFORM- Updated 11/21/09 34 comments
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This post has 34 comments:
And drives me nuts, though I intend to make money on it.
My personal Representative is a RINO (Libertarian in Republican clothing) so yelling at him will give me no joy, he will never back it.
My 2 Senators, Conservative Republicans both, ditto.
So I guess I'm encouraging all you other folks to get loud! List to GO. She is one smart lady.
The punishment is certainly more attractive than the alternative - frenetic work, most gains taken by the government for everything, 2016 cost of the insurance likely to be higher than monthly gross of most if deflation is really at play, no free time, can't afford food and health insurance at the same time, ...
Hm, she must be bringing the policies to the nation that helped get California in the fix it's in now.
HardToLove
This kind of crap is going to tighten the thumbscrews ever further on small businesses and the middle class. The poor? How are they going to afford this? I'm not sure when, if the bill passes, it will come into effect. But how many unemployed people who living off Uncle Sammy's purse, who in January, will lose their benefits, are going to be able to afford this health tax? With 10.2% unemployment? With 37,343,522 citz already recieving food stamps?*
An up to $250,000 fine? A little quick math: If someone is getting paid $10.00 per hour and works a 40 hour week, 50 weeks of the year, that person makes $20,000/year. So it would take that person 12.5 years to pay off that amount, without one cent for anything else.
Need I write more about how utterly insane this bill is?
*--Taken from usdebtclock.org
On November 16th, I will be updating the "Scariest Financial Site On The Web" Instablog. It will give a three month "look."
Hard: If it were not for the Renegades' humor...
CSPAN telecasting the whole circus.
HardToLove
My step daughter had a hairline fracture in her thumb. My wife took her to her doc for a checkup. A week or so later we get the bill they sent our ins co. The X ray was 175.00 and the visit was 250.00. My wife couldn't believe it she explained they were only there for 15 minutes (which she was happy about) and only saw a nurse. She told me I should have been a doctor.
So we discussed what really was the doctors investment as far as materials, utilities, paper, nurses and clerical wages, rent etc probably no where near that. Then I brought up what the group of doctors out there have to pay for medical malpractice insurance.
I would be very interested to see the true breakdown of costs for this $425.00 fifteen minute visit. What % for materials, malpractice, or the costs thrown into cover uninsured now.
AND what would happen to me if next year is a bad year. What if my costs go up to a point where I can't afford them in February when our policy expires. Will I be forced to pay a fine or go to jail?? If the fine is a steep as you say I can tell you emphatically I would be a company with NO employees.
I hope these people (our leaders) are really thinkin this through and all its potential side effects. They have to realize there is only so much money of course I guess they could just print more. There we go problem solved!!
Makes "Healthcare Czars".
Asked why vet loans forgiven, Dems lady switches topics and doesn't answer.
HardToLove
Our best hope lies in the future - 2010 - I fear we will lose this round in 2009.
On Nov 07 12:40 PM H. T. Love wrote:
> While watching CSPAN, it came out that the bill went from appx. 1000
> pages yesterday to 2000 pages today. Sec 340N forgiving loans for
> veternarians - ~$500M. Biofuels being taxed - that's health care,
> right?
>
> Makes "Healthcare Czars".
>
> Asked why vet loans forgiven, Dems lady switches topics and doesn't
> answer.
>
> HardToLove
I'm sorry, but I just love that episode.
Even if there are not yet any loopholes in the law, you can be pretty certain that they will appear before it goes into affect. The very rich will get a cap and the very po will get an exemption, leaving "u" and "me" to pay the bill.
This is really more of bill for the insurance companies. The idea is to use a $1,000-$1,250 tax to SCARE people into buying $15,000 of insurance from their "constituents."
Congress is banking on Americans to jump "out of the frying pan and into the fire." Shame on them.
I'm not so sure that's the way it's going to work for the $10.00/hour worker. The whole breakdown I've yet to study, and, given that this bill is 2000 pages, I doubt the lawmakers fully know what they are voting for. But, I'm wondering how $500.00/year for a person making ten bucks an hour is dealt with when something catastrophic occurs. Nor is it clear to me what damage the employer will be accessed by the bill. A further question is how the handicapped are going to be dealt with. I have a bazillion questions about this bill.
But I've been running around all day and have not had a chance to read anything about the bill more than what I'm reading in this thread, and what I'm reading is infuriating.
Did you read Jim Quinn's assessment and the solutions he volunteered? Great stuff!
What I am sure of, and a part of the bill I do like, is the computerizing of medical records. But, that would have happened anyway. I saw it in action for the first time at my mom's doc's office. Every question he asked, or information that my sister gave him, the live-in gave him, or from myself, was at that moment entered into a laptop by the doctor himself. Every patient room in his office is equipped with a laptop. Cool, eh?
One thing I CAN assume! That DC morons are in charge of my freedoms and my wallet, and have completely forgotten that companies poorly run should go bankrupt, but that's another issue entirely. Another thing I CAN assume, is that DC morons are tracking toward bankrupting this great nation.
Wall Street, the AMA, the insurance companies, drug companies and the politicians are right now giving the future of my beloved USA a thrashing of epic and lasting proportion.
And so...did ya see the runaway hot dog short vid I put in your video thread. That was hilarious!
It will be months AFTER it is passed before armies of experts can begin to parse the layers of nonsense to get at the truth buried somewhere within.
Rest assured, however, that the INTENT of the framers of this thing have never deviated from their stated purpose, to create conditions that lead to a single-payer system. How far along that path this will propel us will not be known for some time, but I would never imagine for a moment that any other path has been chosen.
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3...
They can force you to do this. The only thing we can do is to inform them that everyone voting for it, will be listed afterward and Elections are less than a year away.
Unless, hmmm, "Sitouts" how many people can they Jail if 1,2, 10 million people "Opt out" on their lonesome.
Here's the list of those who voted for this thing: Abercrombie Ackerman Andrews Arcuri Baca Baldwin Bean Becerra Berkley Berman Berry Bishop (GA) Bishop (NY) Blumenauer Boswell Brady (PA) Braley (IA) Brown, Corrine Butterfield Cao (Republican) Capps Capuano Cardoza Carnahan Carney Carson (IN) Castor (FL) Chu Clarke Clay Cleaver Clyburn Cohen Connolly (VA) Conyers Cooper Costa Costello Courtney Crowley Cuellar Cummings Dahlkemper Davis (CA) Davis (IL) DeFazio DeGette Delahunt DeLauro Dicks Dingell Doggett Donnelly (IN) Doyle Driehaus Edwards (MD) Ellison Ellsworth Engel Eshoo Etheridge Farr Fattah Filner Foster Frank (MA) Fudge Garamendi Giffords Gonzalez Grayson Green, Al Green, Gene Grijalva Gutierrez Hall (NY) Halvorson Hare Harman Hastings (FL) Heinrich Higgins Hill Himes Hinchey Hinojosa Hirono Hodes Holt Honda Hoyer Inslee Israel Jackson (IL) Jackson-Lee (TX) Johnson (GA) Johnson, E. B. Kagen Kanjorski Kaptur Kennedy Kildee Kilpatrick (MI) Kilroy Kind Kirkpatrick (AZ) Klein (FL) Langevin Larsen (WA) Larson (CT) Lee (CA) Levin Lewis (GA) Lipinski Loebsack Lofgren, Zoe Lowey Luján Lynch Maffei Maloney Markey (MA) Matsui McCarthy (NY) McCollum McDermott McGovern McNerney Meek (FL) Meeks (NY) Michaud Miller (NC) Miller, George Mitchell Mollohan Moore (KS) Moore (WI) Moran (VA) Murphy (CT) Murphy, Patrick Murtha Nadler (NY) Napolitano Neal (MA) Oberstar Obey Olver Ortiz Owens Pallone Pascrell Pastor (AZ) Payne Pelosi Perlmutter Perriello Peters Pingree (ME) Polis (CO) Pomeroy Price (NC) Quigley Rahall Rangel Reyes Richardson Rodriguez Rothman (NJ) Roybal-Allard Ruppersberger Rush Ryan (OH) Salazar Sánchez, Linda T. Sanchez, Loretta Sarbanes Schakowsky Schauer Schiff Schrader Schwartz Scott (GA) Scott (VA) Serrano Sestak Shea-Porter Sherman Sires Slaughter Smith (WA) Snyder Space Speier Spratt Stark Stupak Sutton Thompson (CA) Thompson (MS) Tierney Titus Tonko Towns Tsongas Van Hollen Velázquez Visclosky Walz Wasserman Schultz Waters Watson Watt Waxman Weiner Welch Wexler Wilson (OH) Woolsey Wu Yarmuth
Present a bill that is so appalling, on so many levels, and then let the senate pull enough weeds and dead fur from the monstrosity that everyone feels better when they are fed their shit sandwich.
When the topic was illegal immigration the Dems laughed down their noses at anyone who was naive enough to suggest that we actually, well, ENFORCE our laws. They made fun of the idea of identifying them and using law enforcement resources to address the problem.
Somehow I do NOT expect the same reaction if 20 million Americans just say "No, and I'm not paying any fines, either".
Could this be one of the straws on the camel's back that triggers violence in the streets? Lord, I hope not, but I think it could.
We have already fought two American Revolutionary Wars, and we are 1 win and 1 loss. I really pray we don't go for a tie-breaker!
On Nov 08 08:13 AM Freya wrote:
> All you can do is hope that it extends for another couple of Unemployment
> numbers. And there are a lot less spineless Senators to call. <br/>
>
> They can force you to do this. The only thing we can do is to inform
> them that everyone voting for it, will be listed afterward and Elections
> are less than a year away.
>
> Unless, hmmm, "Sitouts" how many people can they Jail if 1,2, 10
> million people "Opt out" on their lonesome.
If you were postponing a Major Anything, do it now.
Buy a helicopter and shuttle doctors and patients back and forth to the ship.
I'd register the ship in a country with reasonable malpractice laws, like Singapore, and focus my marketing on upper class wealthy individuals.
If this crappy bill goes through, I may have to give it a shot..
I DO know that this is not a new concept, its been done down along the Mexican border for many years...
But I like the hospital ship wrinkle a lot.
On Nov 08 01:43 PM yellowhoard wrote:
> I've often thought about the feasibility of leasing an old navy hospital
> ship and anchoring it 13 miles off the coast of LA or New York.<br/>
>
> Buy a helicopter and shuttle doctors and patients back and forth
> to the ship.
>
> I'd register the ship in a country with reasonable malpractice laws,
> like Singapore, and focus my marketing on upper class wealthy individuals.
>
>
> If this crappy bill goes through, I may have to give it a shot..
I am with an HMO, and I have been wondering what will happen with all this nonsense. If there is ANY real competition for government, it lies in the major HMOs, which operate in a pattern similar to government in many ways.
We will see how all this impacts the two sides of the coin - how many employers start pushing their employees and retirees into the waiting arms of the bureaucrats - and how many private insurers and HMOs withdraw from the market, ceding the field to the government.
I suspect it will not be an all or nothing affair, but haphazard, messy, and more of a death-of-a-thousand-cuts.
On Nov 08 01:29 PM Freya wrote:
> This Bill allows a Non-physician to evaluate what you need if you
> are on Medicare. Combine this with "Death" counselling...what is
> the writng on the wall?
>
> If you were postponing a Major Anything, do it now.
Reid can use the "nuclear option" (conciliation, ironically once the boogie man once cited by the Left as what the neocons would do to THEM back a few years when things were reversed) to force it through.
This would, however, require that he shed the polite fiction of polite fellowship the Senate likes to project.
I don't think that the Democrats still believe they can create a pliant Republican fig leaf to hide this particular bill behind - even getting Snowe to vote for the bill would require changes they are unwilling to make.
Reid is now on the bullseye. Pelossi actually had the harder job, with all her Bluedogs yipping at her heels (half of whom just signed their political death warrant by voting for Obamacare, an outcome I suspect Pelossi will never lose sleep over).
On Nov 08 12:08 PM Mayascribe wrote:
> Let's hope and pray that the senate votes with a little more sanity.
> Health care is not healthy for our country.
YH - Let us know when you form the corporation! Great idea!
Maya - I'll go back to my insta in a minute to look at your post. The concept of digital records for medical practices has been around and on the books as a requirement of law since before 2000. The deadline just keeps getting pushed back further and further. It is one of those things that is really necessary but the medical lobby must have a lot of pull so it just hasn't been enforced (what else is new?). I was with an organization that built a system for a federal government agency based upon the mandate going into effect around 2001 (that may have been the second deadline already). So, in effect, they have a created a law that just makes sense from all angles and those who want to adopt it do, but those who do not just ignore it. There's some effective government for you! Of course, maybe there's a provision that enforcement only goes into effect based upon certain factors that are subjective in nature. Maybe they have to check their donor lists first.
This is a great idea. Like Triple said let us in.
One of the biggest issues to health care reform is of course how are we going to pay for it. For example in my little company my guys make between 13 to 24 an hour. Right now they pay 5% of their benefits cost's or around $40.00 a month. This policy period was the first time we made our employees contribute to their benefits.
Whatever fee, tax, assessment, etc the government comes up with will ultimately come out of my employees pockets. I have shouldered some hefty increases over the last several years and can't take a lot more. So either I raise my price's (which I don't see that happening) or I make my guys and gals take paycuts. It's a crappy situation either way you go.
You know one other thing. The timing of this whole thing couldn't come at a better time for business. NOT If sales were booming or at least going slightly upward this all might be ever so slightly more easy to swallow.
Lets hope we still have some sane people in Washington.
On Nov 08 01:43 PM yellowhoard wrote:
> I've often thought about the feasibility of leasing an old navy hospital
> ship and anchoring it 13 miles off the coast of LA or New York.<br/>
I have mom's meds on Excel. The doctor's offices learn from me and my sister. They have no way of being updated and current before the visit occurs. First thing I do when I arrive to a doctor's office, is give the doctor the updated spread sheet.
If you would have gone through what I've been through for the past five or six years, you might change your mind. I believe the only medical records that should be retained within one place are those where people go to rehab from drugs, alcoholism, etc, or temporary mental illness.
I can clearly see the benefits of getting rid of mountains of paper. A medical system that communicates properly may help to diagnose disease etc quicker and better. However I see your point. If you could be sure that your information could never be used against you in any way it could be a good thing. The problem is there is no way the government can guaranty that. Also aren't the architects of this believers in Eugenics?
On Nov 08 07:01 PM optionsgirl wrote:
> I know some of you advocated the push to computerize our records.
> I submit it is the individual doctor's office or the individual who
> is seeking treatment that ought to do this. I do not believe that
> a national database is necessary and it is an assault on individual
> freedom and privacy.
On Nov 08 07:01 PM optionsgirl wrote:
> I know some of you advocated the push to computerize our records.
> I submit it is the individual doctor's office or the individual who
> is seeking treatment that ought to do this. I do not believe that
> a national database is necessary and it is an assault on individual
> freedom and privacy.
Thanks for the reminder. Have to call the foot doc tomorrow.
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3...
Of course they want to keep track of you, and IBM will make a lot of money helping (notice the commercials lately?).
And the new generations will think it's really "cool". Well...until the government uses it against them; tells them they will have to have a "co-pay" for their condition, tell them they can't have kids (bad for the gene pool) or that they can get treatment, they just have to travel 1,200 miles to get it.
And then the system will be manipulated to make certain that anyone who is responsible gets taxed out the colon, Congress gets special treatment, and illegals and un-identifiables get treated "out of compassion".
On Nov 08 07:01 PM optionsgirl wrote:
> I know some of you advocated the push to computerize our records.
> I submit it is the individual doctor's office or the individual who
> is seeking treatment that ought to do this. I do not believe that
> a national database is necessary and it is an assault on individual
> freedom and privacy.
Obama wants to 'fix' everything without stepping on anyone's toes. It can't be done. Some big toes are going to have to be crushed. Some big toes are even going to have to be cut off. (At least we'll have digitized medical records to make sure the doctors cut off the right big toes.)
On Nov 07 05:46 PM lower98th wrote:
> The first thing Congress should do is pass a law requiring all Bills
> to be no mre than one page. Heck, most should be one sentence.
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