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Trade stocks by day, and at night am writing a historical epic about the ancient Mayan civilization. "Maya: Spirits Of The Jaguar" is a sweeping saga set in the ancient and magical Mayan landscape where a wronged family struggles against prophecy, power, treachery and forbidden love,... More
  • Axion Power Concentrator 20: Beginning Nov. 13, 2011  225 comments
    Nov 13, 2011 11:01 PM


    With the coming Axion Power conference call on Tuesday at 11:00 AM EST, this Concentrator is all business.

    Many thanks to Bangwhiz and HardToLove for their excellent and exhaustive work in compiling pertinent questions posed by many Axion Power Concentrator commentors.

    We need volunteers to ask questions, as currently there are more than double the questions that need to be asked than people who will be asking them.  

    Bangwhiz has given consent to me to list the compilation of questions within this header, plus his keen insights in how to properly pose a question to Axion Power leadership such that the most information is obtained. 

    Once again, many thanks to Bangwhiz and HardToLove for taking the baton, as my schedule this weekend was packed. 

    The below correspondence has been pasted in from an SA email from Bangwhiz:

    Mayascribe:

    I think it important to post Concentrator 20 so the process doesn't get lost and lose visibility. If you look at my instapost you can get any important comments and insert them as you did in the past. To make it easy there was one duplicate question which I removed and corrected the numbering.

    Most of the Concentrator members are pretty intelligent. If they have the kind of money (from a personal perspective) as I do they could simply decide what they are going to ask, get in line during the question period and if their question has already been asked, pick a secondary question to ask, or just get off the line. I think trying to assign questions to callers will lead to someone saying screw it. People could quickly print the list, choose like a chinese menu and act accordingly.

    You could pick up the existing comments (there is only one or two) from my instablog and put them into your lead in like previous concentrators. We need the visibility you add to get anywhere.

    To simplify it for you here is my text corrected for numbering. You should be able to copy paste it into a blog and publish it fairly quickly. If you can't you can't, but I think the effort would suffer from lack of visibility. Cheers, Tom Munroe see below:

    Axion Conference Call Questions.

    ADVICE ON ASKING QUESTIONS: The important thing is to take a cue from analysts who ask questions on other CCs and phrase the questions in terms of "Can you add some color on the process you're going through with optimizing the Gen2 line, the progress you've made to date and the problem areas that still concern you?'

    Any time the question is too direct you run the risk of getting a negative answer but if you leave room to maneuver, the discussion can be more forthcoming.

    Remember, Tom Granville is not going to reveal information that impacts his negotiations with prospective customers such as what is the profit margin on PbC electrodes. He is not going to be presume to put words in prospective customers mouths and say Norfolk Southern is going to buy $3,000,000 worth of batteries a year for the next three years. He is not going to violate Non Disclosure Agreements. .

    I wouldn't’t introduce a question with a long preamble. Ask your question succinctly as possible. Ask for more clarity or color if you want more data, then get out of the way

    Having compiled these questions without any attempt on my part to edit the content of the questions I want to express my opinion that the next six months are the most important time frame in Axion’s recent history. I suggest we stick to questions that have a bearing on the immediate and near-term future and not what might happen 3 years down the road. Lastly, If I overlooked somebody’s questions from the comments in prior concentrators forgive me - it wasn’t intentional.

    TEAMWORK ON ASKING QUESTIONS: Indicate the two questions you think most important by number by comment in this instablog. If you think you can improve the wording of the question add it to your comment. Indicate if you intend to participate in the conference call in your comment. As to priority of questions and trying to coordinate whoever gets on the line first asking the highest priority question first that might be difficult to control. I suggest you select your favorite question and then develop a list of your own secondary questions and fire away with your favorite or your secondary question when your turn comes to ask questions.


    Topic A - Manufacturing

    1. What is the current production rate of electrodes on the Gen 2 line for one 8 hour shift?

    2. What is the goal of the production rate of electrodes on the Gen 2 line for one 8 hour shift?

    3. What is the production rate of the PbC per 8 hour shift?

    4. Can the PbC production rate be made significantly better?


    5. If Axion had to expand immediately to full capacity production of negative electrodes at New Castle, how long would it take to build out 9 more electrode lines.

    6. Given the eventual need of multiple Gen2 lines for Axion to produce PbC electrodes in large enough quantities to fill future automotive and other OEM needs, and considering the effects in Japan from this year's earthquakes and tsunami, 1) does Axion feel that Kuraray Chemical can produce enough activated carbon to meet the needs of a ramp up in Axion's production, and 2) has Axion identified and tested other possible sources of its activated carbon, and other raw materials that it needs for its PbC electrode, to help prevent a production bottleneck due to supplies of raw materials?

    7. "What is the rated capacity of the AGM line making AGM batteries?"

    8. "In October of this year PikeResearch released a new market analysis on start-stop systems and the advancements in batteries for them. One of the statements on the Executive Summary stated that lead-carbon (PbC) batteries are being developed by Axion Power, and others, and that these batteries will be available in model 2013 vehicles for the first time. Axion itself hasn't released anything to date to suggest that they will be ready to supply auto OEMs with batteries containing their PbC electrodes for the 2013 model year. Obviously you cannot comment on time lines for other developers, but does Axion believe it can meet a 2013 model year time table for any level of automotive OEM roll out, and if not, what are the major issues that are still preventing this?"

    9. Is certification the only thing preventing BMW from placing a non-test order? What the heck is holding up certification?

    10. What progress have you made in refining your fabrication process for producing carbon sheeting? What bottlenecks, if any, remain to be solved in producing carbon sheeting?
    This is an important question and needs to be carefully worded and a good follow up question developed.

    12. Are there technical issues remaining that currently prevent the commercialization of PbC? If so, what is the timeline for their resolution?

    TOPIC B - SALES, MARKETING, DEMONSTRATION PROGRAMS

    13. What is the status of the ongoing Envision Solar demonstration project and how would you characterize the results? FOLLOW UP question about PbC batteries being tested in the San Deigo Charging Station.

    14. What Toll Battery contract sales are expected in Q4 and Q! 2012?

    15. What activity is ongoing with Exide and East Penn? Is Axion engaged in any discussions with other potential strategic partners in the battery industry?

    16. How would you describe the results of meetings in September with European OEMs?

    17. How many European OEMS are actively field testing Axion Batteries?

    18. Mild Hybrid Vehicle research with US auto OEMs. Is this program still ongoing?

    19. What is the status of potential utility demonstartion projects utilizing the Power Cube?

    20. Has field testing began with either the yard or over-the-road locomotives at Norfolk Southern?

    21. Have any PcB batteries been ordered for the Residential market by your MOU partner?

    22. What feedback have you gotten from the auto industry to your proposed SS solution presented by your White Paper?

    23. In toto how many demonstration projects or field testing programs are currently ongoing?

    24. I would like to know which market will Axion get to first commercially, stationary, automotive or locomotive? and when can we expect our first non-testing commercial order for the PbC or powercube?

    25. Is there enough demand from customer testing programs to expect a meaningful ramp in PbC demand?

    26. Which market niches have the best potential for short, medium and long term sales?"

    27. Has there been real world testing by the OEM in vehicle fleets and if so what are the volumes of PbC incorporated into those tests?

    28. Has any testing of the PowerCube taken place outside of New Castle for a specific program or customer, and what is the target market that program is testing and how far along are they?

    29. Besides automotive S/S, Rail applications, and the Solar Tree relationships what are the different industries where the PbC is in actual physical testing by the end user?

    30. "What's the progress with the HT30? Is NS testing it? Is the HT30 involved with the Envision Solar project?

    31. How far along are the planned demonstration projects?

    32. Is certification the only thing preventing BMW from placing a non-test order?

    33. What is holding up certification?

    34. I'd like to know if and how much current 12V AGM battery manufacturers will have to retool in order to incorporate Axion electrodes into a preferred 16V PbC battery SS solution.

    35. When does management expect that NS will complete testing of the yard slug and road locomotive driven by PbC batteries?

    36. If these prototypes perform adequately, what magnitude of sales order do management reasonably expect from NS over the following 3 years?

    37. What timeline is there for management to convince automotive OEMs that PbC batteries are the solution the micro hybrid problem?

    38. In a best case scenario, when would supposed OEM-driven demand translate into PbC batteries in automotive showrooms?

    39. Are there non-rail/auto markets into which the PbC can be sold in meaningful quantities within the next 3 years? What are these markets? How large are they?

     

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Comments (225)
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  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Again, I encourage all who can, to actively participate in the Axion Power Conference Call.
    13 Nov 2011, 11:02 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Last comment in the previous Concentrator from DRich:

     

    >mrholty ... You answered question #1 in #2. NS999 is in Altoona and, to my knowledge, last seen wandering around the Juanita Shops Demonstration Hut, 26 Sept 2011.
    13 Nov 2011, 11:04 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    Drich-

     

    Thanks for the response. I don't want to muddle up the CC call Q's and notes.

     

    But if our product is in the NS 999 in Altoona, isn't that bad news that is just wandering/sitting about in a demonstration hut, and now out doing actual real live work?

     

    It makes sense that it would be in Altoona and not Roanoake like I had been led to believe. (I was emailed by a Norfolk rail watcher) that the NS 999 was still the EnerSys and sitting in Altoona and he thought the Axion Announcement back in 2010 said it was in Roanoake (doing work under the VIT logo.)
    14 Nov 2011, 12:28 PM Reply Like
  • gottliep
    , contributor
    Comments (40) | Send Message
     
    I am traveling on Tuesday and will not be able to be on the call, but I like the list of questions that have been generated.

     

    For those who wanted to know how many shares Special Situations sold during the last quarter it can be found here.

     

    http://bit.ly/tHSntN

     

    Go to list all holdings:

     

    AXPW 4,507,000 $2,884,480 down to 3,152,246 $1,670,690 -1,354,754 (30)% in total holding to 9/30/11.
    14 Nov 2011, 12:24 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    To centralize our conference call questions and plans I have copied all the comments from my earlier instablog and pasted them in this comment. We should use only Concentrator 20 for conference call comments going forward.

     

    FuturistComments (396)
    As to production:
    1& 2 revised) Last conference call you were thinking that the Gen 2 electrode line at the Green ridge road facility could produce enough electrodes per shift for about 100 batteries. Can you tell us of any improvement or time line for improvement in the line?

     

    3,4,5,7, revised) I am curious as to the current PbC production capability of the AGM battery line at the Clover Lane battery plant. Can you inform us as to the current per shift production capability of that line and the cost and time it would take to change one or more of the flooded lines to allow more PbC production.

     

    amishelvisComments (35)
    Nice Job Bangwhiz,,
    I am wondering if there is a way to get some color on the shelf.
    how about.. ......?
    Will you still need raise money before the end of the second quarter, and do you have a plan that wont make it quite so dilutive at these prices?
    or,
    Are there any events that may occur before the shelf registration that will impact the share price in a positive way? Are you concerned with that?

     

    This is a question I dont expect a direct detailed answer to, but will be listening carefully to the tone in the reply.

     

    bangwhizComments (781)
    Good question that needs to be asked. Do you plan to ask it? I hope so. Well worded.

     

    amishelvisComments (35)
    Yep, I will be on and ask that question if it doesnt get answered before then. Matt Chambers

     

    D. McHattieComments (1237)
    Questions 33 and 34 are the same as question 9.
    Thanks again, Bangwhiz.

     

    bangwhizComments (781)
    My favorite questions, beyond my own focus on the sales organization, where I am still working on wording, are 1 and 10. I hope we get enough participants to ask a bunch of the above questions.

     

    lsd_lsm Comments (15)
    There were recently some employment positions listed on Axion's website ... were those positions filled or taken down?

     

    bangwhiz Comments (781)
    Not sure one way or the other. No way to know for sure. Presumably filled.

     

    14 Nov 2011, 12:58 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    I will be sitting on the conference call line and planning to ask the following two questions. Any suggestions about how to improve the wording of the questions are welcome.

     

    1. Who is responsible for sales and marketing at Axion and what staff resources do they have dedicated to sales and marketing?
    2. How have the majority of Axion's sales prospects been developed and how would you characterize the Axion sales pipeline at this point?
    14 Nov 2011, 01:06 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    My two cents on most important questions.
    1,2 - grouped into one questions by futurist
    3,4,5,7 - group into one by futurist
    8, 27 - could be reworded to be more succinct and fit together.
    12 - regarding technical issues that would prevent commercial production.
    14 - battery contract - if not continuation of contract, is there a planned source of additional revenue to make up for this?
    6 - sourcing raw materials from Japan
    35 - status of NS testing. would also like to know if work with NS is proprietary and if this would affect work with other RR's, i.e. BMS.

     

    I would be willing to ask above questions 14, and 8,27 (would reword and post back to forum). If someone else planning to ask these questions would be willing to take others I've listed above. Thanks for all your hard work for everyone involved in this.
    14 Nov 2011, 06:03 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Go for it on 14, 8, 27.
    14 Nov 2011, 10:31 AM Reply Like
  • DBLucie
    , contributor
    Comments (5) | Send Message
     
    Maya and Bang,
    There are several questions which relate to the theme of how And when Axion will ramp revenues from this point, which I believe is a central concern now. Should this question be consolidated? You have been doing an impressive job here. I have been following for quite a while but have not participated until now. I am not certain if I can be on the CC.
    14 Nov 2011, 08:36 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    JP thought revenue ramp was his central issue I believe.
    14 Nov 2011, 10:32 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » DBLucie (and Bangwhiz): Welcome to the Axion Concentrator. I believe, and I think JP would agree (because he sent me a SA email) that much can be drawn out of TG about future and present revenue ramping through asking questions about expectations for not only Gen2 build out, but also in how testing expansion is progressing with the PbC, and/or the HT30 in locomotives, fleet vehicles, and the Envision Solar project, or any other testing projects we shareholders are unaware of.

     

    On John's behalf, I will be asking my first question based upon this theme.

     

    I'm also interested in what progress, from software to hardware, is being made with the Gen 2 line in regards to the continuous making of graphite sheets.
    14 Nov 2011, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • User432382
    , contributor
    Comments (85) | Send Message
     
    The Axion website has been down all morning ?????
    14 Nov 2011, 10:07 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    It's up ATM. 10:10 EST.

     

    The link for the CC is up under the "Investors" tab.

     

    HardToLove
    14 Nov 2011, 10:10 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Website now has a list of applications for PbC and a request for information link. Think it is under technology tab.
    14 Nov 2011, 10:40 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    Foks, just to warn, I have an appointment at noon which would have me listening to the CC from my car which could make asking questions difficult.

     

    If my questions (is certification the only thing preventing BMW from placing an order; what is holding up certification?) don't get asked then it's my own fault and I'll live.

     

    I'm excited to hear the answers to other questions anyway.

     

    D
    14 Nov 2011, 11:32 AM Reply Like
  • brishwain
    , contributor
    Comments (84) | Send Message
     
    Very happy to ask some questions too but a lot of confusion re how to divvy up etc.

     

    Maybe someone can just assign me some, and I will monitor if they have been covered or not or if they have to be modified on the fly.

     

    brian
    14 Nov 2011, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Rated capacity of AGM line and cost and desirability of converting flooded battery lines to AGM would be possibilities brishwain.
    14 Nov 2011, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Brian: I'm not sure if anyone yet is going to ask TG about the fine graphite supply from Japan, and the status of whether or not Axion has an alternative source of supply. As a shareholder, and I'm admittedly not an expert, but having only one "high quality" graphite source is worrisome. I also think you could "tag along in" what TG thinks about the future costs of lead.
    14 Nov 2011, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    Just, FYI, I'm just going to try and get whatever is not assigned or doesn't get asked. I'll be trying to figure a priority of importance, based on comments or whatever, and try to get them asked in descending priority.

     

    I'm the "street sweeper" that hopes to get several shots at the Q queue.

     

    HardToLove
    14 Nov 2011, 02:21 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Maya,

     

    Sorry I've been out of the loop the last couple of days. Kids has the stomach flu.
    Assuming I'm not at home with the same (no signs yet) I'm still planning on asking my questions which are #6 and #8 above. If someone beats me to them, I'll see what else is on the list.
    14 Nov 2011, 10:21 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » LT: I have a quite bet-able feeling that about 16 fold or more questions will be asked during this CC than the last CC. I truly hope it's not just 16.

     

    I was more than blown away by the fact that only one question was asked during the last CC.

     

    What further kindles my sparks is that TG and everyone who works for Axion held such forthright ernest in answering all questions asked from those who attended the June 20 Investors' Conference. And yet, during the last CC the open forum was beyond a dud-ful event.

     

    How can anyone, if schedule and time permits, who has money invested, not want to ask a question? The stock has been tough (i.e. underperforming) to hold...to hold it longer...shareholders need some form of hope or verification to further do so, given that most major shareholders are underwater.

     

    Will we get that tomorrow? Absolutely not, if only few questions are asked.

     

    I am very glad that as a group we will ask questions this time around.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:09 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Another question, which I believe will put some sparkle into TG's eyes, is about the Chevy Volt battery exploding...3 weeks after the lithium battery was damaged in an accident, as per the article JP linked in the last Concentrator.

     

    I would like to know if TG knows what the government is doing to investigate this matter, and if this accident was determined unique, or worse, yet potentially great for Axion shareholders, that all lithium powered cars are potentially at risk to the point that the government (via the DOT) initiates a greater scale of investigation, potentially either stalling EV sales, or stopping them all together until the study has been completed.
    14 Nov 2011, 02:06 PM Reply Like
  • battman
    , contributor
    Comments (373) | Send Message
     
    Not sure you can stall EV sales more than the market already is naturally.
    14 Nov 2011, 02:36 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    Per DJ news, Quercus reports selling 66.3K ~$0.48 11/1-11/7/2011.

     

    HardToLove
    14 Nov 2011, 03:03 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    That should take them down to about 80,000 left between now and the 23rd.
    14 Nov 2011, 03:14 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    I just checked the filing and their available balance was 77,500 as of the 7th. There's been another 740,000 shares of trading since the 7th so my guess is that Quercus is now down to crumbs unless they stopped selling last week.
    14 Nov 2011, 03:58 PM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    I'm going to try to sneak in these three questions as agreed above. Couldn't get it down to two.

     

    8. I was wondering if you would be able to comment on a October 2011 PikeResearch market analysis on start-stop systems. There was a statement in the Executive Summary that mentions that Axion, among others, is developing PbC batteries to be available in model year 2013 vehicles for the first time. Would Axion be able to meet a 2013 model year time table for any level of automotive OEM start/ stop roll out, and if not, what are the major issues that would prevent this?"

     

    27. Could you shed some light on the status of OEM testing of PbC in start stop testing, (i.e. fleet tests) and results of this testing.

     

    4. has Axion extended the fla battery production contract for 2012 and if no, could you comment on how will this source of revenue be replaced?
    14 Nov 2011, 04:07 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    THERE IS A BRAND NEW PRESENTATION UP ON THE INVESTORS PAGE OF AXION'S WEBSITE.

     

    There's a lot of new meat to chew on.
    14 Nov 2011, 04:12 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    John-

     

    Thanks for the note. I figured when it was down this morning and now again this afternoon that they were loading something and their IT guys probably don't have a sandbox only production. the first bullet on page 21 is my favorite.
    14 Nov 2011, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Thanks, John. Welcoming some homework before the big test!
    14 Nov 2011, 05:16 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    The Form 10-Q has been filed and it's not a bad quarter. $2.1 million in revenue and a loss of $2 million. Working capital is $6.9 million with a cash balance of $4 million.

     

    http://bit.ly/tesQ0W
    14 Nov 2011, 05:23 PM Reply Like
  • carlosgaviria
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    -.Extensive testing in progress with European automotive
    OEMs (PLURAL, diversified, numerous) and one very large US automotive OEM.
    14 Nov 2011, 06:31 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2892) | Send Message
     
    I'll assume the revenues are flooded sales. Do we know who the client is? Also can we expect these sales to ramp and help slow the burn rate down?

     

    They say cash will last to June 2012 but it would be nice to have till next Fall otherwise a raise will have to go off by early Spring you'd think.

     

    Hopefully tomorrow they say something beyond confirmation of the NS progress.
    14 Nov 2011, 08:35 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Among their third quarter accomplishments they refurbished and rebuilt the second flooded line. Since the board doesn't have any "if you build it they will come" types I'd bet even money that the buyer wants to increase the size of the flooded contract.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:44 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    I would agree with this. Based on the fact that the sales to what I presume to be East Penn has moved from 725k in Q1 to 1.8M in Q3 that puts a run rate with Q3 at 7.2M which is just shy of the $8M annually that was the top end of the guidance last year which was $3.5-$8.0M. Every little bit helps but margins are very tight.
    15 Nov 2011, 09:35 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Something is wrong with Axion's website. Trying to load http://bit.ly/nG6x1f results in an error being displayed saying "The parameter is incorrect." They seem to have screwed up the index.html page which is usually the home page. Other pages work, but not the usual homepage.
    14 Nov 2011, 04:21 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    You can avoid the problem by just entering http://axionpower.com

     

    For some reason or other using the www prefix screws things up.
    14 Nov 2011, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • astroboy7
    , contributor
    Comments (22) | Send Message
     
    What questions still need to be asked? I would be happy to take a pair of related questions.
    14 Nov 2011, 04:42 PM Reply Like
  • FocalPoint Analytics
    , contributor
    Comments (6024) | Send Message
     
    What's the name of the new presentation?
    14 Nov 2011, 05:00 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    "Investor Presentation" under the investor tab.

     

    HardToLove
    14 Nov 2011, 05:05 PM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    the quarterly report is up also under SEC Filings
    14 Nov 2011, 05:16 PM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    in light of quarterly report, need to re-phrase my questions for cc.

     

    Can't seem to locate new Investor Presentation information?
    14 Nov 2011, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Try the axionpower.com website without the www prefix. Go to the Investors page. Select the Investor Presentation.
    14 Nov 2011, 05:31 PM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    I needed to login - have new computer - for acrobat presentation to appear. thanks.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:15 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » jlyleluce: Ut oh. Hoping that doesn't happen with me. I have a new laptop as well.
    15 Nov 2011, 09:18 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » A couple of things confirmed from various sources, some of which this column already guessed, or knew:

     

    --It appears the mystery university Axion is working with is Penn State.

     

    --Seems that NS is working with both Axion and Enersys and that Axion will recieve another order from NS next year. Was this the significant event TG hinted at during the June 20 Investors' Conference that was supposed to happen this quarter? That was supposed to move the stock?

     

    --The "large" Detroit OEM is continuing testing. Best guess is that GM is the large OEM.

     

    --Hints are that other railroad companies will soon be testing Axion's PbC.

     

    --There hasn't been much mention of the DOD's testing of the PbC for military applications, but in the Investors' Presentation this was mentioned, again.
    14 Nov 2011, 05:43 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    I don't this NS is still working with Enersys.

     

    The timeline to me was 2009 - NS outfits NS 999 with Enersys.
    Q1 or 2 this year they swap out the Enersys for PbC on NS 999.

     

    Somebody tell me if I got this wrong.

     

    Second, my guess is on Ford not GM since they presented with BMW a few years back that current tech is not good enough.

     

    I place the military stuff as cute but wasteful. I'd rather have them focus 100% on rail and auto as the markets are large enough on their own. Same with the Powercube in that for a small company I want to avoid them wasting time with utilities for orders that may be 10 years out vs now for autos and choo-choos.
    14 Nov 2011, 05:58 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    AS phrase that caught my eye in "Results of Operations" was (emphasis mine) "We have met with *NEW OEM's* that are, or soon will be, producing vehicles incorporating start/stop ... interest fueled by our recent white paper ...".

     

    This sounds to me like our potential sales for small-scale (at first) testing and larger-fleet testing just got larger.

     

    HardToLove
    14 Nov 2011, 06:18 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    Mrholty,
    I have always been a believer that the GM assist system, was the perfect fit for the PbC. It would be a much larger PbC system than a stop/start system. It is a GM exclusive. And the GM, Penn State, East Penn connection was made earlier by one of our posters.
    I would bet $5 of Bangwhiz's money that it is GM.
    14 Nov 2011, 07:27 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    I doubt that any of the more recent automakers learning about the PbC are going to make any kind of move unless and until BMW takes it to production.

     

    There could be 5 more automakers waiting in the wings or there could be 500 - none of them are going to make the 1st step unless the one who has tested the PbC the most, BMW, gives it their stamp of approval by delivering a PbC-equipped vehicle to their customers.

     

    D
    14 Nov 2011, 08:09 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    McHattie,
    You could be right that most automakers will take their lead from BMW. But it only takes one to look at the facts and say "I want a small order of 300,000 for my next model year. BMW might have done the groundwork but a small run now would be perfect for both Axion and the PbC.
    But when you think about it I am sure that BMW and Axion have already had the "if it proves out what numbers are we talking about buying" talk. They have had the "when would we need to ramp" talk. They have had the "can we be exclusive for awhile " talk.

     

    No two companies ( just like NS and Axion) can join together to test an evolutionary product and not have those talks. I'm no rocket scientist but I'm guessing that if the product tests well ( and it has so far) Axion will need some new Electrode lines next year to meet the extra demand for the 2013 model year.

     

    The question isn't is BMW going to buy if it test well? It is how many electrode lines do you need for all the other automakers if it test well. Remember, the clover lane facility will be at full production for the NS contract.
    14 Nov 2011, 08:21 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    If I was a car maker I'd listen to my engineers and accountants, not a competitors. Secondly, BMW might have gained a right of first refusal of production capacity, but not a right to tell Axion that in the absence of an order from BMW Axion couldn't fill somebody else's order. Tom Granville is to good a negotiator to bind the company to an exclusive without offsetting order requirements.
    14 Nov 2011, 10:32 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    I didn't find a reference to Axion or NS working with Enersys, which was the original AGM battery supplier for the NS 999.
    http://bit.ly/vxLlHT
    15 Nov 2011, 12:51 AM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2214) | Send Message
     
    >mrholty: My guess is that the military use is very similar to hybrid vehicle systems. If each hybrid "whatever it is" carries 100 kWh of batteries, that is not a trivial market.
    15 Nov 2011, 02:01 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Te big thing with the military right now seems to be using combined diesel, solar and storage systems to minimize fuel consumption in remote outposts. There's something about saving a couple hundred bucks to transport a gallon of diesel into the wilds that appeals to the brass. You're absolutely right that it's not a trivial market.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:37 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Considering the possibilities of what happens to a lithium battery pierced by a piece of shrapnel...
    15 Nov 2011, 09:21 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    I'm sure there are advocates who would argue that shrapnel in a couple hundred kWh pack is no more dangerous than an eight penny nail through a single cell. Personally, I'd want to be on the other side of the compound.
    15 Nov 2011, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    While I don't disagree that there is a market that can be large and remote outpost type stuff ties into oil and mining exploration I see that market as less mature than autos and trains. Just hope they don't take their eye off the main market.
    15 Nov 2011, 09:38 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    Inventories are up since Year-End by 2x but flat against end of Q2. Damn. :( If you were expecting future sales you may want to ramp that up. Revenues lag Inventory by 1Q so we should expect Q4 revenues to be similar to this Quarter.

     

    Looks like they spent $750k in the quarter for capital and based on the comments it probably all for traditional batteries.

     

    "Our strategy for some time has been to utilize traditional production to train our work force, test our systems and incorporate quality
    improvements that we believe will ultimately benefit future PbC production. To this end, we have completed several capital projects in the
    third quarter including; the modernization of our second lead- acid production line; the rebuild of five casting machines; addition of new
    welding equipment; and a 35% expansion of our formation area."

     

    I simply don't see any red flags in this report which is real positive. I am invested in one other business that is in the trough of disallusionment, yet they keep disappointing. Remember that new tech quite often fails. I hope my investment recovers my loss in the other one by several fold.

     

    But, I don't see anything here that gets us closer to a higher share price where they issue more equity. I was hoping for confirmation that Norfolk was actively testing their PbC on a trainset (it appears they are not) and while it is good(real good!) that there appears to be some level of auto fleet testing I don't know when that translates into sales but I would guess atleast a year which is too long if they need $ before Q2 and based on current burn early in Q2.
    14 Nov 2011, 06:18 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    I have to agree - there is nothing new here.

     

    We already knew they were testing the hell out of the PbC with NS, some automotive OEM(s) and a University. I guess now we know that the University is Penn State but that was an easy guess.

     

    We can also guess pretty easily that the main automaker testing the PbC is BMW but it still doesn't mean anything until someone signs a purchase order to put the PbC into a final product.

     

    We know that either Ford or GM is also testing the PbC, which one doesn't really matter, again, unless and until they purchase a non-trivial quantity.

     

    June 30th is looking awfully close.

     

    D
    14 Nov 2011, 08:05 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    Here is what I wanted to know:

     

    From the report:
    We have one customer that accounted for approximately 86% and 80% product sales for the three and nine month periods ended September 30, 2011, respectively, and two customers that accounted for approximately 14% and 19% of product sales for the three and nine month periods ended September 30, 2010, respectively.

     

    Now I am not an accountant, but, lets assume the 85% customer is East Penn and the flooded lead acid battery contract. That equals 3.865 million in flooded. The other two customers I assume are NS and the Detrioit OEM (GM). Thats one million dollars in PbCs this year. Basically in the last three months. 4000 PbCs in the quarter? I can accept that number. Small and going to grow bigger.

     

    The Gen 2 line is working and Axion is on schedule to start delivering product to those that want it.
    If some one could ask if those numbers are a correct assumption of the breakdown of revenue I would appreciate it.
    14 Nov 2011, 08:08 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    You had a slight mis-read because the percentages related to different years.

     

    In 2010 there were two major customers who represented 33% of total sales.

     

    In 2011 there was one major customer that represented 80% of sales.

     

    I think your breakdown of $3.8 million flooded and $1 million PbC for the nine months is probably pretty close. If you go back to the June Form 10-Q, product sales were $2.7 million for the six months and one customer accounted for 75% of sales. That leads me to think PbC sales for the six months were ±$680,000 which would put Q3 PbC sales in the $300,000 range.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:04 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    I was encouraged by the 10Q. Lot's more definition of potential opportunities. The new investor presentation is very well done. Nice that they are in a more promotional mode versus deafening silence. It takes courage to have the level of investment I have in Axion given my limited resources, but then nobody makes money on 2-1 shots, plus you've got just as much chance of losing as you do of winning. An old rule in poker is avoid "coin flip" bets.
    14 Nov 2011, 08:29 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » An old rule in poker is avoid "coin flip" bets.

     

    Except when your playing heads up and you are deep stacked.
    14 Nov 2011, 08:38 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Yep.
    14 Nov 2011, 10:27 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    Futurist-

     

    I took your question, Q over Q and I get these amounts:
    East Penn:
    Q1 -725k, Q2 -1,325k, Q3 - 1,803 = Total 3.854M
    Others:
    Q1 - $310k, Q2 - $373k, Q3 - $294k = Total $978k.

     

    As you can see Q3 is the lowest for others. But it also may tell me that fleet testing may have been going on for much longer than recently. I had assumed Q2 was NS as I figured they were the $387k in Service sales in Q2.

     

    If Axion is charging $250/PbC that means a total units sold of just under 4,000. (1243, 1495, 1175 each Q)

     

    How many does NS have in NS 999 - Enersys had 1,600 batteries so if its a 1:1 that means that 2,400 batteries are out there being tested by others. (Assumed 0 batteries for PowerCube and for PSU) as they would be testing and purchasing batteries.

     

    If so, 2400 batteries is pretty good for some fleet testing. Thoughts?
    14 Nov 2011, 08:56 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    The NS 999 originally used 1,080 Group 31 batteries.

     

    http://bit.ly/vxLlHT

     

    The 1,600 number you used is the best current estimate for the road locomotive.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:08 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4673) | Send Message
     
    >JP ... I'd bet the road loco would be outfitted with those mysterious HT series batteries. I've wondered if NS999 hasn't been retrofit with them already. To-date I've not heard anything other than what was reported during the Annual Mtg.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:22 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    I haven't heard much either, but if the new investor presentation and the Form 10-Q discussion are any indication TG may be a bit more forthcoming in today's call (I hope).
    15 Nov 2011, 04:39 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    Even better. Assuming a $250 price, 1080 batteries on the NS yard switcher means there are 2,800 batteries out there testing.

     

    PbC batteries sold by Q if 100% of flooded go to East Penn @ $250 price point.
    Q1 - 1243
    Q2 - 1495
    Q3 - 1175
    15 Nov 2011, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    John Petersen,
    I just finished listening to ZBB's conference call. I liked everything I heard but one thing made me laugh. Their system is able to take the grid power, roof solar power, wind power etc. into the box and disburse it. They disburse it in DC voltage just as an EV car battery would want it. So they are a good solution for a company ( like Walmart) that might have a roof top solar installation and wants to also have car charging stations. They can take everything in and then disburse it properly. Makes sense.
    The funny part is when the CEO stated that they could take the wind or solar collected energy and dispurse it to the car instead of the "coal generated" energy going to the car.
    My mind was filled with warning signs. " No peeing in the swimming pool." " Stop using my clean energy for your dirty work" " We do not authorize bad electrons into your car"

     

    I was laughing but he really had no idea of how silly what he said really was. But all of that aside this company has it together and is on a good path for clean tech survival and profit.
    14 Nov 2011, 09:05 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2214) | Send Message
     
    Futurist, just remember ZBB is giving the technology to the Chinese, which means that in a few years, as the patents lapse, the Chinese will take the world market away from them. No mater what they negotiated this year. Chinese businesses pay no attention to any contract with Western businesses that hurts their sales. But you can always take them to court.......In China :-(
    15 Nov 2011, 02:15 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    There are two ways to look at doing business with China.

     

    If you figure your big risk is that they'll filch your technology for their home country market, then a few years of profitable operation funded by the Chinese may be worth the trouble for a market that you'd have a hard time penetrating in any event.

     

    If you figure your big risk is that they'll filch your technology and become an export competitor, it's a far more dangerous dynamic.

     

    The import-export dynamic in the battery industry is very different from the dynamic in the consumer products market because the labor cost savings of operating in China can be easily offset by shipping cost disadvantages. So if your IP protection is good in the rest of the world and higher shipping costs will offset a big chunk of the potential labor cost savings, China is not necessarily a meaningful competitive threat.

     

    It would make for a great conference call question.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:47 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2127) | Send Message
     
    SHB,
    I recognise the concern many have about dealing with the Chineese. But some companies have been very successful doing so.
    ZBB has partnered up with a muti-national conglomerate in Korea. They have partnered up in Australia. They have now partnered up in China. They have hired experienced management that has dealt with an American company selling high tech products overseas.

     

    There is always danger lurking but I see a company with a game plan and an execution strategy. My favorite line of the conference call went something like this:
    " We waited until the last minute to hire needed new management because we didn't want to waste any money"

     

    The danger to this company is lack of funds not patent protection.
    But they have 5 million dollars of orders on backlog. More orders coming from their new partners, and a team in place to market, manufacture, and deliver the new product. It is an exciting small company that is playing with some very big kids in the neighborhood. On top of that they are pinching pennies. I like that.
    15 Nov 2011, 07:39 AM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2214) | Send Message
     
    Futurist, I mostly agree with you. I don't know how good their IP protection is in "other than China" areas.
    If they can execute relatively quickly they can make money for at least several years before worrying about China.

     

    I am impressed by their aggressive marketing group expansion and the Korea partnering. Their basic product does seem to be well placed for big electric storage systems and it uses inexpensive materials.

     

    I own some ZBB stock, but I don't plan adding any until I see some cash flow from product sales.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:38 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2434) | Send Message
     
    The labor cost advantage in China is decreasing, and this trend will be very interesting to watch over the next decade.

     

    Their is more civil unrest in China that many in the US understand. Plenty of corruption to go with their pollution, lack of water, and electricity issues.

     

    Here's a civil unrest note from the internet (so take it for what that's worth)

     

    http://bit.ly/tmXSMn

     

    Man, it sucks to be a politician world wide!
    17 Nov 2011, 07:59 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    I had a visit yesterday from a Swiss businessman who has run recycling operations throughout the world. He was pounding the table over his view that non-union American labor is very cheap once you take into account their superior production efficiency.

     

    It was fun to hear a really smart guy taking about the advantages of manufacturing in the States.
    17 Nov 2011, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    I think ZBB is in a great position and am really impressed by the recent marketing hires.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:11 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    The work for the military is listed on page six of the investor presentation as a multi billion dollar market - something more than a small niche. I wasn't quite clear what this market entails and found following info from Axion presentation in 2008.

     

    "Military applications present a number of unique challenges for battery systems. Military vehicles must operate well in sub-freezing temperatures where newer battery technologies have difficulties starting vehicles. New requirements for the operation of high-power electronic loads for communications, surveillance, and other operations when the engine is not running are placing significant new demands on developing battery technology."

     

    Li-on doesn't appear to be a good alternative due to requirement to operate in sub-freezing temperatures. My thinking is that Axion is required to remain discreet on the details of their involvement in this venture. I like the multi billion dollar part. Additionally page four indicates a transition from development to commercialization in military applications. I think it likely that some of the production to date of PbC batteries is being used by the military, as well as NS and OEMs
    15 Nov 2011, 04:33 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    The big emerging military market is hybrid power systems for remote outposts. What they're trying to do is get away from diesel generators and replace them with systems that combine solar, diesel generators and storage. The biggest advantage is a logistics savings of a couple hundred bucks a gallon to transport diesel fuel. It's a relatively new market niche, but one that's tremendously appealing to cost cutters.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:51 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    After posting the above, read on page 15 of 10Q where " nor have we as of yet received an award for the second year of our ONR grant from the Department of Defense.
    Don't know what to make of this due to lack of information. If this is just a funding issue, or if military not so interested..
    15 Nov 2011, 05:41 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    The ONR grant was a congressional earmark that didn't make it through this year's budget battles on Capitol Hill. We have no basis form an opinion about what the military's opinion was.
    15 Nov 2011, 06:00 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    thanks for reply
    15 Nov 2011, 06:03 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Actually Li-Ti was a good alternative because it could function in cold and heat. ALTI was very active with the military for this use until they sold a controlling share of the company to a Chinese financial company. The military cancelled their contract after that because of Nat. Sec. issues. They weren't going to be beholden to a Chinese company for their batteries and didn't want China to know what applications they were looking at using the batteries for.
    15 Nov 2011, 10:41 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2434) | Send Message
     
    ZBB is pushing in the military market as well with its PECC system to tie various forms of alternative energy together.

     

    They also have the Flow Batteries to offer to the system, though they're happy to just sell the PECC if that's what makes a sale.

     

    Anyone have thoughts comparing AXPW's offering to ZBB's flow battery? Their Honam collaboration supposedly will increase the efficiency of power retained in transfer in and out.

     

    No doubt much bigger whales are interested in this market as well.

     

    Of course if the US "Super Committee" turns out not so super and gigantic defense department cuts result, there may be a lot less money for these kinds of trials and production contracts than we might hope for.
    17 Nov 2011, 08:13 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    After reading investor presentation and Q3 results am wanting to change questions from the following:

     

    8. I was wondering if you would be able to comment on a October 2011 PikeResearch market analysis on start-stop systems. There was a statement in the Executive Summary that mentions that Axion, among others, is developing PbC batteries to be available in model year 2013 vehicles for the first time. Would Axion be able to meet a 2013 model year time table for any level of automotive OEM start/ stop roll out, and if not, what are the major issues that would prevent this?"

     

    27. Could you shed some light on the status of OEM testing of PbC in start stop testing, (i.e. fleet tests) and results of this testing.

     

    4. has Axion extended the fla battery production contract for 2012 and if no, could you comment on how will this source of revenue be replaced?

     

    to:

     

    1. On page 7 of new Investor Presentation, it states that PbC batteries have been commercially available since Q1 2011. However, page 12 of form 10Q states that "there is no assurance we will be able to successfully commercially produce our product." Would you be able to shed some light on reconciling these two statements specifically, if PbC batteries are available in commercial quantities and if not, what is the potential time frame for this to happen?

     

    2. Recognizing need to raise additional capital, could you comment on extent of Axion efforts to acquire additional funding from large investors.

     

    If either of my questions are repetitive with someone else's, would be happy to change a question to ask about work with military.
    15 Nov 2011, 05:37 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Instead of asking about the status of the OEM testing, it might be more informative to ask for a general description of the tests including the numbers and kinds of vehicles, length of testing periods and progress to date. I for one would be far more interested in hearing about a small fleet test for several months than a single vehicle test.
    15 Nov 2011, 06:04 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    Your right. I am going to omit my question 2 above, as it probably is obvious that axion is seeking other investors. Going to revert and ask about OEM testing.
    My question 2 will be:
    Would you be able to add some details regarding OEM testing of start/stop to include a general description of the tests,the numbers and types of vehicles, the length of the testing periods, progress to date and when PbC might be incorporated into a commercially available vehicle?

     

    thanks.
    15 Nov 2011, 06:14 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    Yes. This is exactly what I was thinking about on the elliptical this morning.

     

    Would love some description of the tests and the metrics involved.

     

    Rack tests or actual in-vehicle, on the road tests?

     

    D
    15 Nov 2011, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    You might want to make that stop-start and HEV because I have a hunch that both may be going on.
    15 Nov 2011, 07:15 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    revised question 2:
    Would you be able to add some details regarding OEM testing of both HEV and start/stop to include a general description of the tests,the numbers and types of vehicles, the length of the testing periods, progress to date and when PbC might be incorporated into a commercially available vehicle?

     

    thanks again John, I'm open to more suggestions.
    15 Nov 2011, 07:19 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    Questions look good Jylejuice.
    15 Nov 2011, 07:43 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    I like this line "...The success of this testing (with NS) is allowing us to expand the locomotive application to include other locomotive end users and locomotive integrators." It is a little more than just "tests are ongoing". I Will be interested in hearing what further he might say on the cc tomorrow, if anyone asks him to shed more light on additional locomotive testing and progress of NS.

     

    Talking with additional OEMS in Automotive that came to them in response to their white paper is another big plus. Any OEM knocking on this tiny companies door is very significant. The only question here is what are they finding in their tests of the AGM batteries that JCI and Exide sent them.

     

    From what I see so far things look positive and progressing.

     

    In quick scanning revenues are up year over year, and the continued work making traditional lead acid seems to be going well. I doubt they would have updated their manufacturing capabilities in that arena if they felt that work would not continue which is very nice for cash flow into 2012.

     

    Looking forward to the CC. Great questions everyone I will be in the car picking up kids but if I get a quiet moment and have an additional question that is not asked I will try to chime in.

     

    Granville seems like a very personable guy, so it should be a great discussion with everyone relaxed giving a nice back and forth.

     

    Great stuff.
    15 Nov 2011, 07:49 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    I was pleasantly surprised with 10Q and investor presentation. Important steps and events disclosed, but maybe not enough to bump up share price in short run - hope I'm wrong here.
    Three big questions remain for me.
    1. Can PbC battery be produced in commercial quantities.
    2. Financing past Q2 next year.
    3. Besides production capacity, is there anything else that is an obstacle to OEM order.
    15 Nov 2011, 08:39 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    >JJ
    In a rational market you could make the case for the pps rising this quarter, in connection with the new investor presentation and altogether positive progression toward commercializing the PbC through a number of continuing and growing relationships with large OEM;s in Auto and rail. In the irrational world that the large seller(s) inhabit, nobody can make even an educated guess where this stock might go over the very short term barring any additional information.
    15 Nov 2011, 09:35 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2434) | Send Message
     
    Remember it's a de-risking, deleveraging, credit constrained, austerity focused, Politicians kicking the can down the road, possibly deflationary world.

     

    That's a tough (and dare I say rational) world to be in when you need to raise capital.
    17 Nov 2011, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    It is a good world to be in. Hype gets muted, bubbles don't get inflated, and finding a lower risk small cap will be hard to come by for investors. Companies that do it right and have showed fiscal discipline for almost a decade while slowly and consistently growing their business should be in a relatively good position.

     

    As opposed to the world where money was being thrown at any and all gee-whiz, amazing technology companies that required future revolutionary changes or complete over-night paradigm shifts to make a buck.

     

    When the political debauchery finally ceases or calms we should have a better world for a little while, until we forget our lessons again.
    17 Nov 2011, 08:58 AM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    As an aside, I would like to know if they eventually plan to prepare a white paper related to the benefits of the Power Cube. I would like to learn some more about the capabilities of this offering.
    15 Nov 2011, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    We anticipate establishing "additional" formal marketing agreements for some of these applications in the fourth quarter of 2011.

     

    I wonder if they already have other "additional formal marketing agreements" besides with Envision Solar ...
    15 Nov 2011, 09:04 AM Reply Like
  • sonrisa777
    , contributor
    Comments (122) | Send Message
     
    It's 11:05 and I'm still getting music instead of the cc. Am I at the right place?
    15 Nov 2011, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Yep. Now you should have talking.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • sonrisa777
    , contributor
    Comments (122) | Send Message
     
    11:06! It started :o)
    15 Nov 2011, 11:07 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    What the hell is the access code for the CC?
    15 Nov 2011, 11:10 AM Reply Like
  • battman
    , contributor
    Comments (373) | Send Message
     
    There is none. You speak to an operator
    15 Nov 2011, 11:12 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Then what the hell is the correct phone number?
    15 Nov 2011, 11:15 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    i found it
    15 Nov 2011, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    *0 to get the operator.

     

    Otherwise if like normal wait til they are done and they will tell you to ping them with the request that you want to ask a question.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:20 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW) Dumping, 436K already bid/ask $0.35/$0.40.

     

    BangWhiz wins, sadly.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • astroboy7
    , contributor
    Comments (22) | Send Message
     
    I pressed *1 like ten times!!!
    15 Nov 2011, 11:34 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Call Tom at the Plant 724-654-9300
    15 Nov 2011, 11:35 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    I tried to ask a question, *1, and they never prompted me!

     

    Maybe it's time for an e-mail to IR?

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 11:35 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    !@@##%^&^ call line!!! Sat here trying to get in over and over and never was picked up! They say they are willing to answer other questions. Maybe we can send them our list.

     

    !@$$@!! call line!!!
    15 Nov 2011, 11:35 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    WTF??????? I pressed star 1 3 times!!!
    15 Nov 2011, 11:35 AM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    WTF.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:36 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Dang it! I pushed "star 1" at least three times to pose a question. Guess Axion was experiencing technical difficulties. What a shame.

     

    Also just missed out on scooping up some 35 cent shares.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:36 AM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (228) | Send Message
     
    Maya (et al.),
    Interested in a conf call with TG?
    15 Nov 2011, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    I just called and requested one also!

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 11:50 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4673) | Send Message
     
    >anthlj ... One vote "AYE". My ISP went down just as the words "going concern" were mentioned and the stock tanked. What was that all about?
    15 Nov 2011, 11:52 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Someone over on Yahoo pointed out that for the last two conference calls, the only ones who seemed to have gotten through were associates of investment funds. Maybe they just don't pick up the line for the independent shareholders? I don't like to accuse anyone of anything, but that's twice that's it's happened where we've had people ready to ask questions and none of us were ever picked-up on.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:33 PM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    I was on the call for ZBB yesterday as an independent investor and my call was not picked up.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2434) | Send Message
     
    ZBB allowed me (an independent investor) to ask the question about Tier's focus going forward. They had no idea what I was going to ask.

     

    I did my *1 pretty close to the end of the CEO's prepared remarks.
    17 Nov 2011, 08:37 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Granville specifically asked people who couldn't get through to call him. I'd take him up on the invitation.

     

    724-654-9300
    15 Nov 2011, 11:37 AM Reply Like
  • brishwain
    , contributor
    Comments (84) | Send Message
     
    and we should have a call in line so we can all participate together - seriously! total BS
    15 Nov 2011, 11:41 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » I think we should consider something more group oriented. Perhaps I can call Thomas up and ask him to take a gander at Bangwhiz's questions, as well as the many more that surfaced yesterday.

     

    Have to figure out some kind of format.

     

    I feel for all of us. This was quite aggravating, and the company that Axion uses to allow paticipating callers to pose webcast questions should be fired.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    Due to not being at my home, I was using skype and system would not accept star 1 either. Tried several times. I'm more than a little miffed by this as operator knew I was using skype before conference took place. I also tried contacting operator but she said she couldn't help due to privacy issues.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:39 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    Information on PJM for those of us who have never heard of them before:

     

    PJM InterconnectionFrom Wikipedia

     

    PJM Interconnection LLC (PJM) is a Regional Transmission Organization (RTO) which is part of the Eastern Interconnection grid operating an electric transmission system serving all or parts of Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia and the District of Columbia. PJM, headquartered in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, is currently the world's largest competitive wholesale electricity market.[1] More than 650 companies are members of PJM, which serves 51 million customers and has 167 gigawatts of generating capacity. With 1,325 generation sources, 56,000 miles of transmission lines and 6,038 transmission substations, PJM delivered 682 terawatt-hours of electricity in 2009.
    1927 the Public Service Electric and Gas Company, Philadelphia Electric Company, and Pennsylvania Power & Light Company formed a power pool called the Pennsylvania-New Jersey Interconnection.[3] The purpose of the power pool was to dispatch electric generating plants on a lowest cost basis, thereby reducing the electric costs for all members of the pool. After Baltimore Gas and Electric Company and General Public Utilities joined in 1956, the pool was renamed the Pennsylvania-New Jersey-Maryland Interconnection, or PJM
    FERC Order 880, 888 and 889Following the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) Order 880 that began the deregulation of the traditional utility companies, FERC began to set up the concepts of an Independent System Operator (ISO) and Regional Transmission Organization (RTO), which allowed third party entities to manage functions of the electric grid that were traditionally responsibilities of vertically integrated utility companies.

     

    PJM was designated an RTO by the FERC in 2001. FERC regulates PJM and approves its open access transmission tariff for the wholesale electricity market.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:43 AM Reply Like
  • sonrisa777
    , contributor
    Comments (122) | Send Message
     
    What a disappointment :o((( He did say that they were expecting an order from NS soon...
    15 Nov 2011, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • Bylo-
    , contributor
    Comments (417) | Send Message
     
    I sure as hell hope Axion runs its production facilities better than they run their conference calls.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:45 AM Reply Like
  • brishwain
    , contributor
    Comments (84) | Send Message
     
    Just called axion and requested that TG agree to a conf call Q&A w all of us who want to participate - so that we can do so at the same time. Stay tuned for the response.
    Brian
    15 Nov 2011, 11:45 AM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (228) | Send Message
     
    perfect, thanks
    15 Nov 2011, 11:47 AM Reply Like
  • Bylo-
    , contributor
    Comments (417) | Send Message
     
    Excellent! Thank you!
    15 Nov 2011, 12:09 PM Reply Like
  • Ricknplano
    , contributor
    Comments (305) | Send Message
     
    This conference call should be re-scheduled. Dozens of questions went unasked and unanswered.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • astroboy7
    , contributor
    Comments (22) | Send Message
     
    I also just called axion and should get a call back later.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    I fired off an email to IR with a link to this Concentrator complaining about our inability to ask questions after much effort by all of us for this event. This truly sucks!
    15 Nov 2011, 11:47 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Everybody in this concentrator needs to contact IR from the link on the Axion website and include a link to this concentrator and complain about our inability and lack of opportunity to ask important questions after we had hard to prepare for the CC!

     

    Not only that, but if we had had an opportunity to ask our questions I think the answers may have been positive and offset the fall in stock price we are experiencing today. What a fk up!
    15 Nov 2011, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • Ricknplano
    , contributor
    Comments (305) | Send Message
     
    Does not inspire confidence.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:06 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Below and pasted in is an email I just sent to TG via Investors Relations:

     

    Dear Thomas Granville,

     

    On Seeking Alpha, I wrote a summary of the June 20 Investors' Conference. The summary was so successful that I had to invent what is called the Axion Concentrators, where both potential investors as well as existing shareholders can learn, ask questions or post links to all things Axion related.

     

    We are now at Axion Concentrator 20, with well over 3000 comments posted. I hazard to guess miilions of shares are held by those following the Axion Concentrators.

     

    As a group, we all took time and great pains to organize many questions to be asked during today's CC, which went unanswered, due to technical difficulties.

     

    Would you please consider some forum such that these many questions can be posed to you?

     

    It's really a shame as to what occurred, both for the followers of the Axion Concentrators, as well as for Axion Power itself.

     

    Please feel free to call me anytime.

     

    Bill Traster
    (Mayascribe on Seeking Alpha)
    15 Nov 2011, 12:10 PM Reply Like
  • geottman1
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    He did say BMW was road testing the PBC but he could not elaborate further.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    Geottman,
    When did he say BMW was road testing the PbC? I Did not hear that.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:00 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    He said (indirect quote): BMW is 'not just bench testing'. And then he said he couldn't elaborate further. I don't know why he would be unable to elaborate as to how many cars and where and for how long.

     

    D
    15 Nov 2011, 01:43 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    It's one of those dances where if you ask what's going on with a specific automaker he'll duck and dodge on details but if you ask for a generic description of the kinds of vehicle testing they're doing with automakers you may get more detail that doesn't tie to a particular customer.
    15 Nov 2011, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    I guess we now know why there was only 1 question the previous Conference Call as there was only one again today. This was NOT a good thing to have happen today...
    15 Nov 2011, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    It's important that everyone who tried to ask a question and failed let the company know. If they hear from one or two the response may be different than if they hear from five or ten. This is really frustrating, but it's no time to let somebody else speak for you. You're not angry stockholders but you do have questions and you deserve fair answers.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:16 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    I heard 2 questions. I think both were from analysts?

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    I think they need to find a better provider of the conference services.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Do you have time and trade data for the entire day, or just the last 30 trades? If you have it please send me a copy jlp at ipo-law dot com
    15 Nov 2011, 12:29 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    It looks as if I'll be able to capture the whole day - in groups of 3K. Heh! It'll be a single snapshot, so good to go there. Right now about 86 entries.

     

    But it'll be an image, as the "T & S" screen has no "export" function.

     

    However, I can augment that with an export to spreadsheet format from the chart and that should make the consolidation both quick and useful. Chart resolution is one minute.

     

    Want me to do it EOD?

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 12:48 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Just this morning
    15 Nov 2011, 12:55 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    I spoke to Lisa in Investor relations at Axion (polititely of course) and she said they were meeting to discuss a solution as we were talking. Call (724) 654-9300 if you are disappointed and express your interest in some sort of solution to the problem.

     

    DO IT NOW! Option six in the multiple choice phone menu.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (228) | Send Message
     
    Did so, suggesting conf call solution.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4161) | Send Message
     
    I called. Press 6 for investor relations. Lisa is keeping a list of names and phone numbers that call in. Call in and add your name and number to the list.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:30 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    (AXPW): 173K offered at $0.38 right now.

     

    Volume today so far 514.7K!

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    I just sent an email to IR as well. The execution of the CC today was terrible and Axion needs to respond appropriately.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    In all fairness to TG, I heard TG come back on after the call was over asking for the operator. I was hoping he was going to tell her to figure it out and that he was not going to get off the line until she did. Unfortunately, she was already gone.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    I sent a link to this thread which Axion is now aware of. Let's see what they do. I would encourage you again to call, reference this thread, and express your disappointment politely.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:30 PM Reply Like
  • astroboy7
    , contributor
    Comments (22) | Send Message
     
    Tom Granville just called me-
    I was caught a bit off guard, but had a good 15 minute conversation with him.
    1. Asked about manufacturing rates - he said 8-9 of the machines were at the 6 second dwell time, the rest were around 11 seconds, overall though it is a lot better than it needs to be for anything going on now or in the immediate future.
    2. He said the modifications were good enough for the Gen-2a line, I asked when that would be, he didn't think it would be anytime soon.
    3. Talked about Norfolk Southern. I remarked that at Investor Day he said that they were still saying it would happen the end of this year but he thought it would actually happen the beginning of next year. Tom laughed and said that yes, he called that correctly. I asked if the delay is what he thought or more than that and he said it is what he thought.
    4. I asked about the other rail applications, and he said there were other customers. Basically, NSC has taken longer than Axion has wanted, even though they expected it, and felt because of the delay that they had the right to see other customers. He said that NSC wasn't too happy about this, especially because they have done so much testing (that would be carried on to other customers), and he replied that NSC has benefited from the partnership a lot as well so it shouldn't be a problem. He wasn't saying that things were bad between the two companies or that things wouldn't be going through, but I felt he was implying that there were some tough negotiations.
    5. I asked about OEM testing. Basically he talked about the kill tests and how long that takes. Kill tests are what they sound like. I asked about if there has been any on road testing, and after hesitating for a sec, he said yes, there has been (are?) a few of those tests already.
    6. Finally I asked about financing. I asked if he thought there would be catalysts to the stock price that would make financing more beneficial. He said that already they get many offers for financing, some of which are garbage. He said yes they are waiting for better market conditions, and he thinks those catalysts are coming, like the one later this month with the powercube. He doesn't care about waiting for the right penny, but does think they can strike at the right time.

     

    That's the summary, I got to go back to real work. Hopefully others can add/verify this.
    -Dan
    15 Nov 2011, 12:34 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4161) | Send Message
     
    This is not satisfactory. Part of the point of this group asking questions during the conference call was for the analysts to hear the answers.

     

    I'm not that smart, but I know this group is. I banked on those questions being answered. Now his stock is tanking because of their technical difficulties. They need to reschedule WITH analysts on the phone and answer all the questions including Dan's that TG answered one-on-one. Just my opinion.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    As much as I'd like to believe there were analysts on the line, the reality is that Axion has to move up a notch to get real interest from the Wall Street crowd because almost everybody has rules that preclude written analysis of OTCBB companies. The retail investors who were on the call and wanted to hear the answers are far more important.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    I sent an email to Rudy Barrio at IR suggesting a prompt email to all shareholders would be helpful...
    15 Nov 2011, 12:36 PM Reply Like
  • sonrisa777
    , contributor
    Comments (122) | Send Message
     
    I wrote to Rudi Barrio complaining that I didn't get to ask my questions. Is there anything else I should do?
    15 Nov 2011, 12:36 PM Reply Like
  • geottman1
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    briefly 189,900 shares offered at .40 and then gone
    15 Nov 2011, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • Ricknplano
    , contributor
    Comments (305) | Send Message
     
    I believe TG is calling all those who write the investor contact regarding this CC. He just called me and went over my questions. He said production capacity is not an issue that is affecting orders. The delay with automobile OEM's is because they are still testing to destruction to get comfortable with quality and durability as well as doing product testing in test cars. NS was delayed due to environmental reports they had to do in the particular test location. He still expects an order from NS but more likely to occur in first Q 2012 rather than this year. No comment on when automobile OEM orders may come but he said the tests cars are performing as he and others at Axion expected, which is to say, going well, so he does expect OEM orders over the next 24 months, which was as tight as I could get him to commit. He said they have a lot more confidence than ever in their ability to compete with the Power Cube and we can expect to hear news regarding that over the next year or so.

     

    I asked him about their relationships with both Exide and East Penn. He said the door is still open at Exide for them, but the restrictions Exide requires for a working relationship are onerous. He said the relationship with East Penn is excellent, they signed the MOU back in 2005 and have worked with them since then. I asked then why did East Penn form a subsidiary, Ecoult, to promote the UltraBattery. He sort of laughed and said, we wonder the same thing. Then he said that East Penn may have made a particularly keen deal with Furukawa with their UltraBattery contract that gives them some financial incentives to promote the UltraBattery even though the Axion battery is better. He would not comment on why he feels that way or what those terms might be, just that he is confident that Axion's tech is better and that they remain on excellent terms with East Penn.

     

    He said that cash flow is an issue but the management team has various options for funds that are existent now, and will only get better with commercial orders that he anticipates to come in the first quarter of 2012 (Norfolk). So he is careful about upcoming cash needs but not overly worried about their ability to procure financing when they need it. He acted like this is a non-issue. I hope he is right since the last round of financing knocked the stock in half.

     

    He started to act distracted and I suspect he had several other calls to make, so I thanked him for the call and we said our goodbyes.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:56 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    TG is hitting the phones hard!

     

    Since I had intended to be the "street sweeper" I suggested he go on with the folks more knowledgeable than I.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 12:58 PM Reply Like
  • jpau
    , contributor
    Comments (865) | Send Message
     
    I think they should redo the conference call. It's all well and nice to get questions answered; but the questions and answers need to be part of the public record. And I think it also needs to be noted on their site that the original call was redone because shareholders were either unfortunately missed, or (hopefully not) deliberately ignored.
    15 Nov 2011, 12:58 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    The way TG is hitting the phones, I doubt there was any deliberate action on their part. We talked briefly about it and he said they had switched last year due to a similar issue.

     

    I passed on a suggestion that he check with CPST to see who they use since they've never had a problem that I'm aware of.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 01:01 PM Reply Like
  • jpau
    , contributor
    Comments (865) | Send Message
     
    I really hope you are right HTL, I really do. However, not matter how innocent, the questions deserve to be answered; and it's just as important, if not more important, that those questions and answers be part of the public record, and easily found. It's just not good enough that he contact people.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Thomas Granville also called me. I will be posting a summary of the call in the header of the next Concentrator. It won't be for a bit, as for my B-day present to myself, I'm having my home windows cleaned...they just arrived.

     

    I, too, was surprised how quickly TG responded.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:00 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4161) | Send Message
     
    I forgot we share a birthday. HAPPY BIRTHDAY !
    (and me, I'm going to the dentist)
    15 Nov 2011, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    >Maya's B-day present just went from Axion stock at $1 to having his home windows cleaned. Oh well, just make sure you close your eyes when you make a wish tonight blowing out the candles to your birthday cake (and don't tell anyone what your wish is, no one will be able to guess).
    15 Nov 2011, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Happy day Maya and John. I beat you both by 3 days. What is it with all these Scorpios?
    15 Nov 2011, 01:14 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    Happy, happy birthday Jon and Maya!

     

    Jon, how did you get in the position of having a dental appointment on your birthday?

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 01:22 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Back atcha' Jon. Happy Birthday! Good a day as any to get those Chicklets cleaned.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:31 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4161) | Send Message
     
    Would you believe I lost a flossing bet?
    15 Nov 2011, 04:35 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    I understand people want to hear the words out of TG's mouth themselves, but it is a significant gesture of him to go down a list making all of these calls and giving people such time. I am not sure a lot of CEO's that would do that.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:11 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3450) | Send Message
     
    Concur. That speaks volumes and all of it good.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    I just got a call from Tom Granville and asked about carbon sheeting and he felt they were ahead on that issue versus other production issues and could handle an order for up to 400K PBC's from where they are now.

     

    As to sales organization they divide duties up by who has technical knowledge for the application, solar experience for solar apps, utility experience for Powercube, etc. Says the sales content is mostly technical in nature and requires technical knowledge to deal with the calls. From his comments I gathered they would be expanding sales organization in time.

     

    Between others comments and TG's remarks I think things are going fine. I might pick up some more shares at the current low ball prices, particularly .40 or below.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    Bangwhiz,
    Regarding the TG comment that Axion
    " could handle an order for up to 400K PBC's from where they are now." Does this mean per year?
    Thanks,
    15 Nov 2011, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    Just to clarify - does that mean 400K Pbc electrodes or 400K Pbc batteries? There is a very big difference. Thanks.
    15 Nov 2011, 02:26 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Timeframes to fill the order were not discussed, it was simply phrased as the carbon sheeting fabrication was in good enough shape to handle "an order for 400K PbC's".
    15 Nov 2011, 02:28 PM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    thanks, I didn't understand that your comment was in regards to supply of carbon sheeting, and not production.
    15 Nov 2011, 02:43 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    I had the impression it was 400K batteries.
    15 Nov 2011, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    By the way, the comment was carbon sheeting sufficient for 400K batteries (or electrodes), not that they could produce 400K batteries or electrodes. Since the question was focused on producing carbon sheeting, and not batteries, the remark applies to producing carbon sheeting.
    15 Nov 2011, 03:56 PM Reply Like
  • optionsgirl
    , contributor
    Comments (5063) | Send Message
     
    For all the birthday boys:
    http://bit.ly/tFdq8Q
    15 Nov 2011, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Thank you, OG.
    15 Nov 2011, 03:49 PM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4161) | Send Message
     
    Thanks OG!
    15 Nov 2011, 04:35 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Good opportunity today to buy some stock. I would suggest the CC fiasco was in part responsible, plus people who get spooked anytime the words "may not continue as a going concern" appear in a 10Q. I'm mulling how much more to lose if it comes to that, but frankly I'm bullish on the stock.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:48 PM Reply Like
  • amishelvis
    , contributor
    Comments (143) | Send Message
     
    Hi Gang,, that was frustrating,,it happened to me in the last call also,, I thought it was an issue with my phone.. anyway,, I called IR at axion, and Lisa was taking names and numbers,, very apologetic, etc. I presume I will get call from Tom, or?? maybe another q and a. Either way,,I will stay in touch with results.
    15 Nov 2011, 01:49 PM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (260) | Send Message
     
    I also called Lisa and have been keeping track of questions that haven't been answered. Thanks for providing transcripts of TG conversations.
    15 Nov 2011, 02:06 PM Reply Like
  • astroboy7
    , contributor
    Comments (22) | Send Message
     
    What is up with all these scorpio birthdays (myself included)? Nine months after Valentine's day!

     

    Today was stressful, but not the end of the world, and everything is progressing. The couple things that stuck out to me are that with BMW, 'AXPW is fastracked' and also that there is on-the-road testing. For us, I feel this is not a question of 'if' but 'when'.
    15 Nov 2011, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • jpau
    , contributor
    Comments (865) | Send Message
     
    Wow, today is my wife's birthday too.

     

    Tempting as the price is, I'm too scared to add more. I'm going to stick it out, down 46% right now. I just hope this time next year, I'm not figuring out how to explain to her that I'm about to take a noticeable tax loss on some stock.
    15 Nov 2011, 02:21 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1777) | Send Message
     
    I sent an email to IR. I would rather have an email response than talk to someone on the phone, if for no other reason than I don't have time to talk on the phone today, since I have to catch up at work from the time I was on the CC this morning. If I hear anything back on my two planned questions, I will let you know.
    15 Nov 2011, 02:35 PM Reply Like
  • DaveT
    , contributor
    Comments (198) | Send Message
     
    Without a CC for the questions you have prepared there will be no hardcopy transcript as exists for the other CCs. So although personal call-backs show some commitment, it doesn't have the permanence of the CC.
    Perhaps someone with some contact history could ask that the prepared questions be given written answers and published on the website as an alternative.
    15 Nov 2011, 02:59 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    New concentrator, server has been ioverloaded.

     

    888888888888888888888888

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    888888888888888888888888

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 03:34 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Look, the conference call was screwed up, but based on responses to questions posted in this thread and TG's summary remarks, we may not have the level of detail we would like to have, but Axion has to move on and I suggest we just get ready for the next conference call as we did this one and go on down the road. Life goes on and I like the level of interest by other auto oems, railroads, and utility markets. We could ask TG to spend the rest of the quarter answering our questions, or let him get on with the work to be done to close some business, secure the new financing, and hire any additional talent they need after the capital raise.

     

    He's not nuts, he's done what he could reasonably do by calling people who didn't have their questions answered, everything we knew about is progressing well, and the rest is up to the Gods. In the meantime I'm hoping to buy more in the 30's if possible by the time I can get funds into my broker.
    15 Nov 2011, 03:38 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    Well said Bang!
    15 Nov 2011, 03:45 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » I asked TG if we could set up some sort of auxilliary CC. He responded that there would have to be an SEC filing, so Bang, you are on spot on.
    15 Nov 2011, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  • Bylo-
    , contributor
    Comments (417) | Send Message
     
    You may get a chance to buy some in the .000001's
    15 Nov 2011, 08:06 PM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    Sorry Bang, I don't agree with you. This board makes up a very important cross-section of stockholders in Axion and source for potential investors. Moreover, for a development company such as Axion, Mr. Granville takes home a very sizeable guaranteed salary as opposed to options ... My understanding is that he is worth every penny for a company of Axion's size.

     

    With that said, if he has to stay late or find other time to rectify this screw-up so be it.

     

    As has been expressed by others, these questions should be answered in a fashion where others (potential investors) can analyze his answers and hopefully pull the trigger on their investment decisions.

     

    If there is a screw-up in my profession, you can rest assured that I would be working until the screw up is fully rectified.
    15 Nov 2011, 03:48 PM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    Besides, the answers that are given to these questions are on a virtually anonymous board and are represented as correct interpretations of supposed conversations with TG ... Not to say that every word of each comment is not correct, but have you ever played the game telephone? Often times messages get lost in translation.
    15 Nov 2011, 03:53 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    The big problem with trying to take curative action at this point is complying with SEC regulations concerning selective disclosure. It's a difficult regulatory structure to navigate and trying to do things that fall outside established communications practice is very dangerous. I'm frustrated that the questions didn't get asked and answered, because I think Mr. Granville was looking for an opportunity to explain in more detail. In any event I'm delighted that he took the time to call most everybody back.

     

    We learned some very important new facts today. First, BMW has moved beyond bench testing and the only way to do that is with an engine and four wheels. Second, Norfolk Southern is getting great results that are triple confirmed between NS, Axion and Penn State. Third, an announcement is expected before the end of the month on opportunities for the PowerCube in stationary applications.

     

    It wasn't everything it could have been, but it sure beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:05 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    Isd_Ism,

     

    I would suggest that if you have particular questions you want him to answer and hear for yourself then you give the call as he invited anyone to do. Having the answers public in a transcript is nice but investors in the end have to do their own due diligence. This board might be a very nice concentration of Axion stockholders but in the end we are all individual holders, merely trying to exchange information in a public forum. Conference calls are for each investor to get questions answered in addition to what is made public through the earnings report, Granville has done what he needs to do to answer questions by making himself available to everyone, in an even more productive one-on-one call. Which is a pretty unique opportunity to everyone here. I can promise you that many large investors would love to get one-on-one time with CEO's to any company they are researching.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    Thank you for your thoughts Jakurtz. Quite frankly, I spend countless hours on DD. I appreciate Mr. Granville's efforts in calling individual investors and will likely make my own phone call when I have had a chance to listen to the call again and look at the answers to previous questions given above. I already sent an email to IR after I heard Mr. Granville attempt to recall the operator at the end of the call.

     

    With that said, a proper public record of the contemplated questions would have been invaluable.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:25 PM Reply Like
  • brishwain
    , contributor
    Comments (84) | Send Message
     
    But how is TG's contacting of each one of us who called and answering questions not "selective disclosure"? Seems they should file whatever with the SEC and have a further conf call with Q&A - cant imagine it would be too difficult or time consuming - and I suspect this is not the first time the SEC has had to deal with something like this. Seems the firm that botched the cc should be willing to handle all of the administrative on their dime.

     

    I vote we push for this - both in order to obtain the info we are seeking as well as to have it a matter of public record.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Brish: I asked TC the very same when he called me today, and he responded exactly as JP put it above. The fact that TG almost immediately responded to all who phoned in or emailed investor relations shows incredible commitment to his shareholders.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:46 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Please note that I was experiencing server problems in both loading the next Concentrator, and then linking it, so HardToLove was kind enough to put up the above link to the next Concentrator, which took forever to post.

     

    Thanks Hard!
    15 Nov 2011, 04:00 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2214) | Send Message
     
    I just got a "502 bad gateway" for the new concentrator address HTL posted.

     

    Sigh. I have been having slow and variable results with Seeking Alpha the last few days.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:35 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (18048) | Send Message
     
    SHB, that's a symptom of an overload condition. It may not be at SA either - there's a lot of "edge routers" involved in getting traffic from point A to point B. And SA could have some under their control as well.

     

    Should go away when traffic abates.

     

    HardToLove
    15 Nov 2011, 04:47 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Link just worked for me. I,too, was getting soem 502s today.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • matthewchic
    , contributor
    Comments (12) | Send Message
     
    I'll jump on the B-day wagon...I'm directly on the cusp scorpio/sag on the 23rd. This is starting to have the makings of a anthropology study.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:38 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9983) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » What, that we Scorpios love gut wrenching high risk microcaps that can pay off 20 or 30 fold if you bought today?

     

    Yep, that is us.

     

    If Special Sitz was smart enough to follow this column, they would not have been panic selling today. I'm thinking that they will follow through tomorrow, so these fantastic once-in-a-lifetime prices should be available. But not for long. All the positive news I heard from TC during the CC shows that Axion is right on the cusp of exploding in share pricing. The cusp could be a month or more, maybe into next year, but most certainly I believe Axion will be raising capital for expansion reasons, not to just keep the company up and running.
    15 Nov 2011, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Anyone have an a reasonable answer for the new 52 week low and the 18.75% drop in share price and massive trading volume (1.2M)?
    15 Nov 2011, 05:58 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    Were you awake today Tim? Scroll up 60-70 comments and read down. Then go to Concentrator 21
    15 Nov 2011, 06:23 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Bang, been a rough day for sure but there is nothing that I can point to that will explain it. I was hoping for some feedback from the people who watch the volume and pricing closely (HTL/JP) to see what it correlates to (if anything).

     

    I will jump to the next concentrator if the web site will accept my request...
    15 Nov 2011, 07:20 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    Tim,

     

    There is no relation to the business performance in the earnings that would justify the sell-off. One can only surmise it was the heavy handed selling of a large fund that was willing to lose a whole bunch of money.

     

    Perhaps the disclaimer at the beginning of the call that to stay as a going concern they will need to raise funds by the end of Q2 2012 spooked some...who knows anymore.

     

    Personally, I have never felt more comfortable with my investment choice.
    15 Nov 2011, 08:21 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Jakutrz, indeed the June 30, 2012 warning/disclaimer was repeated many times and raised an eyebrow with me when I first read the report the day prior to the CC and I am much the novice. Why would they do that? Would be lovely to see that insider "buying" was covering all that selling...
    15 Nov 2011, 08:32 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1940) | Send Message
     
    SEC regulation is that you have to make disclaimers about the need to raise funds and that you may not be able to raise funds to continue as a going concern when you know you will need to raise capital in under a year.

     

    I don't think insider buying is going on right now, it can be rather precarious with the SEC if you are buying into your own company shortly before it makes a move, it tends to look very much like the illegal kind of insider trading.

     

    I bet a lot of people around here picked up a few nice chunks. I would have except that I did last week.
    15 Nov 2011, 08:54 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2248) | Send Message
     
    "Personally, I have never felt more comfortable with my investment choice." Me too.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:09 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Tim,

     

    Conference calls are unusual beasts in the securities field because they allow management to make forward looking statements about the business, but require that the discussion "bespeak caution" which is why they always start with the lengthy disclaimer and reference to the SEC filings and risk factors. The goal is to strike a fair balance.

     

    It's a tough market for companies that are seeking financing buyers are being very conservative and time frames are extended. That makes disclosures about limited runway room doubly important, particularly if a discussion will include positive developments.

     

    I personally thought the dire warnings were a little overdone, but wearing a management hat I'd have been very cautious too.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:13 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (990) | Send Message
     
    "... I like the level of interest by other auto oems, railroads, and utility markets... "...".. I think Mr. Granville was looking for an opportunity to explain in more detail.
    We learned some very important new facts today. First, BMW has moved beyond bench testing and the only way to do that is with an engine and four wheels. Second, Norfolk Southern is getting great results that are triple confirmed between NS, Axion and Penn State. Third, an announcement is expected before the end of the month on opportunities for the PowerCube in stationary applications."

     

    "I can promise you that many large investors would love to get one-on-one time with CEO's to any company they are researching. "

     

    JP...Agreed...some validity re NS/Penn State (talk about bad timing!).
    Agreed...I think TG was looking for an opening to expand on some items...but...if you ain't asked, have to think twice about offering too much at this point in time.
    TG was less than subtle about the time requirements of RR and auto OEM... I like that...I also liked to "fast track" allusion

     

    Did TG mention a PJM announcement next week?...and an Axion announcement next week?

     

    I was somewhat suspicious and cynical at the end of the CC, but I like their quick acknowledgement.
    JP...I think AXPW received more than the 7-10 calls you suggested!
    15 Nov 2011, 06:13 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30232) | Send Message
     
    Tom discussed PJM briefly with reference to their plans to tie the PowerCube into the grid in the next few days. He also said there would be some kind of PowerCube announcement before the end of the month. I don't recall any discussion that tied the two together.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:18 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    I believe there is a PJM conference call to discuss the short and long term implications next week. Not specific to the PowerCube.

     

    At this point there is a FERC ruling which supposedly would be beneficial to battery companies and companies such as Beacon Power with flywheels that would get an extra payment for maintaining a consistent grid with less fluxuation as its expected to be required as more Solar and specifically wind come online with their variability. The grid sends out requests every 6 seconds and the providers that can dial up and down to help maintain the grid should benefit vs the nat gas peaker plants that are much slower to react.

     

    BCON shareholders complain much about the FERC being too little too late. The fact is no one yet knows the real pricing premium these guys would get and the individual ISOs such as PJM NYISO don't have to implement immediately. Much of this is up to their own discretion as grid operators with regards to time and scope. The estimate however is that PJM will take the lead as supposedly they pay 2x what NYISO pays currently which is why there was talk (albeit limited) the BCON should move their current 20MW plant to PA where they have a $24M 50:50 grant, not loan unused.

     

    A negative for BCON however was even with that grant and the FERC ruling they could not find anyone to do a JV with them which is probably all you need to know about their cost structure.

     

    I've been using BCONs bankruptcy as a way to learn about the BK process as I understand that being selective in BK you can occassionally find some good investments. Very early in and its an amazing dynamic with incredible power wielded by the US Treasury even though the guy clearly has no idea of the real business.
    15 Nov 2011, 11:31 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2214) | Send Message
     
    Given the PbCs high POWER capabilities, I would stay away from high power flywheel mogen companies that depend on power quality income to be economic. It looks like the PowerCube is a better solution. Nicely modular and easy to place on a site. Nothing moves and there is effectively no maintenance.

     

    I'm very interested in the first grid connected tests of the idea. There is a real possibility for many thousands of battery orders over the next few months if testing ramps up quickly.
    16 Nov 2011, 12:00 AM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (1041) | Send Message
     
    Agreed they are two different business models but the majority of the Oct 21 FERC statement is about power quality and uniformity which makes the comparison to BCON necessary as they would be overlapping in the same market there.

     

    PowerCube does have the high power generating capabilities that BCON doesn't but that isn't what the Oct 21st FERC paper was about. In that space there is already Batteries to compete against, they are more expensive but they are there and the tech is more proven from a utility side than the PbC even if we think its grand.

     

    The Powercube is also for smaller applications under 1 MW which has considerable demand but again I don't think utilites are going to go out and rush to buy tons. The first cube will have to run for 6 months to show a baseline of data, just like it is being done in automotive and rail. The question again is what is the catalyst? Without that our investment is worse than dead, its sinking as the market can do the math as well and if they can get more knowing they are in a bind they will. Its clear at this point an ownership % by a JCI or Exide seem unlikely and while a partnership would provide cash to build a line at what expense.

     

    Even if they get an order in March for 50 train sets how do they procure a deal, and provide the huge amount of working capital to fund inventory, during production and not get paid for 90 days after that.
    16 Nov 2011, 12:21 AM Reply