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Trade stocks by day, and at night am writing a historical epic about the ancient Mayan civilization. "Maya: Spirits Of The Jaguar" is a sweeping saga set in the ancient and magical Mayan landscape where a wronged family struggles against prophecy, power, treachery and forbidden love,... More
  • Axion Power Concentrator 36: Beginning Dec. 21, 2011, Futurist's Article 168 comments
    Dec 21, 2011 3:23 PM

    Today we bring a terrific article written by Futurist. Please note that there are some font and margin issues that did not translate perfectly from Futurist's document file, probably due to some quirk in Seeking Alpha's software. This non-computer geek tried unsuccessfully to fix the minor problem.  


                                   
                                    Axion Power International
     

                             Production Capability Analysis

                                        December 21, 2012

                                              by Futurist

                                            an Axionista

     

    The PbC battery. What is it?

    Axion Power produces negative electrodes made from finely ground carbon material that are placed in an Absorbed Glass Matt battery (AGM). Its a simple procedure. Instead of the normal lead-based negative electrode being placed in the battery, the manufactures put in the Axion carbon negative electrode. A very simple process. The resulting product is far from simple. An AGM battery turns into a asymmetrical battery capacitor.

    What does that mean? Well, it means that the new carbon based lead acid battery (PbC) now lasts 5 to 10 times longer than other lead acid technology; it accepts a charge quicker, deploys it faster, and overall, it only costs twice as much. A perfect battery for heavy charging and discharging over a long life at a small cost.

    This PbC battery is patent protected. Who wants it?

    Norfolk Southern railroad wants it for use in and all electric rail yard slug. Instead of having a diesel engine slug idling 80% of the day and doing a few trips around the yard, they would rather see the little electric slug chug along when needed, and not spewing the venomous exhaust of a diesel engine in the air when it isn't working.

    Norfolk Southern railway was so enamored by the PbC that they have engineered a hybrid locomotive long haul engine. This engine sits between a couple of diesel engines. When the train goes downhill the PbC batteries on the hybrid engine accept the regenerative braking of the train. The batteries then help power the train uphill, resulting in diesel engine fuel savings. The entire concept is explained in detail on the Norfolk Southern website in their report on the future of Norfolk Southern Railroad.

    BMW wants it. The white paper study (found on Axion's website under INvestor Relations) is a scientific study showing how the PbC battery outperforms the ordinary AGM battery in a idle elimination stop/start environment. The differences are enormous. Instead of a battery starting to fail after a few months, as with an AGM battery, the PbC simply keeps working for 5 years or more.

    Any company (plants, universities, military bases, data centers) with a large energy back-up system could use this product. Look at data centers for example. Their need for back-up storage is great. But what if the back-up storage device could put a little energy back into the grid when the grid needs it? Would that be cool? What if the grid would pay you to do that? Wouldn't that be neat? Of course. And that is what Axion, Viridity, and PJM have developed. A PowerCube of PbC batteries that make money for the owner while doing its boring storage job. Pretty neat stuff.

    One Giant market for any energy storage device is the utility companies. This market is expected to be a 200 Billion dollar market in the next decade. If the ability of the PbC can match the needs of the utilities as far as performance and price, then Axion won't be a micro-cap any longer. However, the bulk of that market is destined for less expensive solutions. Different, cheaper kinds of battery solutions than the PbC. It is always nice to keep in mind however, that even a tiny bit of a 200 billion dollar market can be something valuable to a company like Axion.

    　

    So how many of these devices can Axion produce? Good question

    As I understand it, the Axion negative electrode line can make about 300 battery units of negative electrodes--it takes about 30 electrodes for one PbC battery-- every day if they ran 3 shifts per day, right now. But right now they only have one modern carbon negative line. It is called the gen 2 line. There is the older Gen 1 line in existence but it doesn't produce many units per day. The next line will be labeled the Gen2a or the Gen3 line. We would expect some improvements in productivity or quality control over any new line. The new lines should be able to be ordered and installed in 4 months time. That is fast, but a slower time frame than what has been reported by the company. So far production equipment time lines have never exceeded estimates. No reason to not be conservative with these figures.

    If the negative electrodes can be produced at 300 units per day that equals 75,000 PbCs per year.

    The Axion battery plant currently can produce 250,000 AGM batteries (or PbCs) per year. They can also produce another 500,000 regular flooded batteries per year. This production schedule presumes three shifts but does not account for working weekends or holidays.

    What then is in store for little Axion Power in 2012? A small micro cap business with a big product. Plenty.

    A railroad yard slug engine takes about 1,000 PbCs to operate. A Long Haul railway engine takes about 1,600 PbCs to operate. A 1 MW PowerCube takes about 1,000 PbCs to operate. An automobile takes 1 PbC to operate a stop/start system.

    Conservatively, Norfolk Southern will retrofit 10 engines in 2012. I pick this number because there are thousands of rail yard slugs and thousands of over the road locomotives. Making ten test engines is a small number. The need to test in different climates in different rail yards or over different terrain will cause the number to be more than one. Assuming 100s of engines are overhauled each year, I would expect ten to be a minimum conversion number. I won't be surprised to see a larger number since both locomotives should have a quick payback and return to the railway company. As an added benefit the carbon footprint of the railroad goes down with each engine ordered.

    Conservatively, 10 PowerCubes will be purchased and installed for testing and real time use.

    There are thousands of data centers in this country that operate huge power backup systems. Most are lead acid. Many are now using AGMs. These batteries must be replaced every few years. This is an avoidable expense with the PbC.

    A PbC will last 4-5 times longer and only cost twice as much as an AGM. Plus the PbC will payback the owner for the power the system gives back to the grid when the grid calls for it. To suggest that only ten 1MW systems or twenty 500KWh systems will be sold this year is quite conservative.

    If 1/5th of all lead systems have to replace their batteries this year anyway, then finding ten buyers out of thousands availiable should pose little problems. Especially when PJM, and its offshoot Viridity Energy, are able to steer their clients base to Axion's new marketing arm, Rosewater Energy. A pretty simple process.

    It is hard to believe that only OEM testing (as opposed to actual product sales) will continue in 2012 for automotive, but lets say that is so. At least 5,000 PbCs will need to be purchased for just that testing market. Reports so far have BMW, GM, and "multiple OEMs testing the PbC." Ford worked with BMW on the European stop/start testing protocol. Speculation is that this relationship has Ford testing the PbC as well as BMW. This speculation has never been confirmed.

    The GM program is for a mild hybrid application. A very significant market, if the PbC works in that application. It takes a lot more PbCs in a mild hybrid application than a single battery for start/start applications. Suggesting that selling 5,000 PbC batteries this year for fleet testing by the OEMs, is not overly ambitious.

    Therefore, I anticipate 25,000 PbCs to be manufactured and delivered in 2012. At $250 apiece that would mean a gross revenue from PbC alone of $6,250,000. A three fold increase with no large volume order in place.

    A large volume order can come at any time by any of the three companies mentioned above.

    　

    Can any other field use the PbC?

    Other uses for the PbC come up all the time. It is a good device for storing the electricity generated from wind or solar. It can absorb these charges, kick them out to the grid or other places, and then accept more charges time after time. For a price only twice that of an AGM battery, a company can get a product that lasts 5 times longer. It would seem that many companies in the renewable energy field might be testing or ordering the PbCs in the very near future.

    Another Axion partner is Envision Solar who is testing using the PbC as a solar powered car charging unit. Although a niche market, who knows where the relationship will lead.

    Oil well rigs use smog creating diesel generators for power. For three years Axion has been talking about this niche industry using the PbC. Rosewater Energy has gone so far as to partner with an Arab company for marketing this product to the Arab oil producers in that area.

    Axion can fill those orders

    Even with the projections made above Axion can produce an additional 50,000 PbCs in the existing plant without spending one dime in additional plant capacity. That would be an additional $12,500,000 in gross revenue.

    I realize that Axion is stating that it will soon need a cash infusion by March 2012. This is very true. Axion would need an order for the PbC battery that would equal at least 40,000 PbCs per quarter to be truly profitable. One can see how this market, and much more is obtainable. But it isn't obtainable now without a significant PowerCube order (100-200 PowerCubes), 100 railroad engines, or a 100,000 unit OEM automotive order. But Axion does not need to raise any additional funds for plant expansion unless it has a very large order it cannot fulfill. And that would be a very large order. Axion could add 9 more Gen 3 lines to its present facility within a 4 month time frame (albeit at a cost of 20 Million or so). That would bring production capability for the negative electrodes somewhere in the 750,000 battery unit per year area or more.

    The revamping of the current flooded lead acid battery lines into AGM lines will allow Axion to make about 750,000 PbCs per year, in house. Those kind of numbers will not be happening in 2012 . But with another year of testing in new fields and if the current testing proves the value of the product, then large numbers can be projected for 2013.

    Overall my projections are rosy but, I hope, not so unrealistic as to be disingenuous. The point of this article is to prove that production capacity far outweighs demand at Axion today. Capital expenditures should be low for awhile. If the Board of directors does authorize a major expenditure in capital spending you should see that as a reason to buy Axion Stock. Because the need for more negative electrode production is only due to a large order coming in. And that my friends is an opening of the floodgates for Axion. A step into the big time arena and a chance to be a truly disruptive technology in the 21st century.


    ####

    On behalf of the Axion Concentrator, I greatly appreciate the time and energy Futurist put into this wonderful article.

                       
    Themes: Batteries, Automobile, Railroad, Electrical Power Grid, Solar, Wind, Military, Oil Rig
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  •  
    Last comment in the previous Concentrator from pianomanshl:

    By the way, I have pretty high expectations for KNDI in 2012. Their business has been progressing very nice. Good exposure to media and relationship with State Grid..etc.

    Just like AXPW, they need to show sales ramp up......

    Golden cross recently and up about 6% so far today when my other holdings are all down a l
    21 Dec 2011, 03:49 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Arrgh!

    pianomanshl's last sentence in the above comment should read thusly:

    Golden cross recently and up about 6% so far today when my other holdings are all down a little bit.
    21 Dec 2011, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Good article Futurist!! Thank you so much!!!
    21 Dec 2011, 05:43 PM Reply Like
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    Nice article Futurist. I like the fact that Axion can ramp up production to reasonable numbers pf PbC's without huge capital outlays. Axion stated in their last 2 10Q's that if they raised the amount of capital they desired they would begin building a sales and marketing team within Axion.

    Whether the effort is external or outside organizations like Rosewater I think that is all the fuel needed to get Axion moving up the food chain quickly. I'm a salesman and you are a salesman. Don't you wish we could go sell some PbC's?
    21 Dec 2011, 05:48 PM Reply Like
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    Thanks for the compliment.
    As I told Rosewater in an e-mail. "If you need a great salesman that believes in the product and lives 140 miles away from Rosewater headquarters, simply give me a call."
    21 Dec 2011, 07:32 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Hmmmm, food for thought, Maybe they could use some phone power. Probably follow up on that with an offer to help after the holidays.
    21 Dec 2011, 07:37 PM Reply Like
  •  
    I think we should all thumbs up this Concentrator. I believe when a lot of thumbs up happen, it shows up in Seeking Alpha's data pool. David Jackson, Seeking Alpha's founder, is VERY AWARE of the Axion Concentrators.

    Should have thought about this idea with jakurtz's great article.
    21 Dec 2011, 06:00 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Maya...never noticed thumbs up for articles...figured SA would track like etc...
    Good to know!
    22 Dec 2011, 05:47 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Glad to see another great article!
    21 Dec 2011, 07:14 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Can anyone here guess how many people may have read the Axion article on Bloomberg? Just curious....tough question?
    21 Dec 2011, 07:21 PM Reply Like
  •  
    I would suggest that very few page views were had. I was the first blog entry after the article appeared. Only 24 people said they like the comment. Even if only one per cent of the viewers read the article and comment and liked it it would total 2400 page views.

    The number seems surprisingly low to me. But I have no idea what the true relationship is between page views and blog comment voters.
    But my suspicion is that readership is low.
    21 Dec 2011, 08:32 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Link?
    22 Dec 2011, 05:53 PM Reply Like
  •  
    http://bloom.bg/rEnZqH
    23 Dec 2011, 08:36 AM Reply Like
  •  
    Thanks Pianomanshi!
    23 Dec 2011, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  •  
    John et al.,
    At the risk of propagating further deviancy, hypothetically, if the pps were to remain at these depressed levels, and with what could be game changing events on the next 12 months horizon (but perhaps not the next 3-4 months), does the option of a modest loan as a source of short-term cash begin to appear on the radar screen as a sensible option?

    I know you have raged against loans in the past, but the argument could be made that pps in 12 months might be significantly more robust as the result of material events in the roll out of the business plan, and thus represent better gearing for an equity raise (x3 or x4 greater?). The loan repayment would be baked within this later equity round, so, in effect, you adroitly circumvent the market's near-term indifference to your stock without curtailing operational activities.
    21 Dec 2011, 07:38 PM Reply Like
  •  
    anthlj: I'm with you on this idea. I have thought about broaching some kind bridge loan idea in this thread. That way, the stock can have more time to rid itself of Special Situations, let the barrel run dry, and then let the stock at least double from here after a couple of high brow announcements.

    Then later do the shelf offering to pay down the loan and build out the Gen2A line.

    I think it's a viable idea.

    ####

    BTW, everyone. Like to clarify something, and that's there is only one line of robots at the Axion facility. The Gen2 A does not yet exist.
    21 Dec 2011, 09:02 PM Reply Like
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    Maya,
    My question about this is not if there is a Gen2A line, but what constituted the Gen1 line? Was it all done by hand or were there robots involved as well? Just wondering if there is anyway they could add a robot or two to the Gen1 line to make it production quality? When you took the tour at the shareholder's meeting, what were the differences that you saw?
    21 Dec 2011, 10:21 PM Reply Like
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    LabTech: The original line was a few machines, old looking and arcane in how they worked to me; a lot was done buy hand, loading, stacking and what not, "shoving rollers" between work stations. That line (if I am correct) is now used for flooded batteries. The Gen 2 line is the line that consists of 11 robots. It's footprint is about the size of a school bus, clean, tight, akin to a vastly smaller robotic line we see that assembles cars.

    Adding a robot to the old line is simply not feasible. Have to qualify that idea, because when I took the tour, I was like and four year old trying to understand the String Theory.
    21 Dec 2011, 11:10 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Temporary debt in modest amounts does not worry me, particularly if there's a mechanism in place to take the debt out in a reasonable timeframe. The problems I've encountered in the past involved large amounts of debt financing that was effectively permanent and had associated debt service burdens. An example of the kind of debt that worries me was the 2-year notes Ener1 used to raise $85 million from Goldman Sachs. They required regular quarterly payments that had to be paid partly in stock and created immense pressure for the market. I'd still prefer equity even if it's painfully priced, but the golden rule of corporate finance is the guy with the gold makes the rules.
    22 Dec 2011, 12:37 AM Reply Like
  •  
    anthlj

    Actually I thought about this. You mean couple of million dollars that could last for 2-3 quarters until the end of 2012, right?

    Is this a bad idea?
    21 Dec 2011, 07:59 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Yes. Enough to get them to material events that will increase share price. Maybe as much as $4-5 million?? TG should have some time/cost projections for this. My concern is that the key events will occur after the end of Q2 2012, and more stock will be issued than necessary.
    21 Dec 2011, 08:11 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Since Axion has no real debt and the plant is worth 30 Million, securing a loan is not a problem. The problem is that those pesky bankers will tie certain provisions to the loan that make growing a business very difficult. They won't want this to happen or else. They won't want that to happen or else. Typical banker stuff.

    Stockholders say " Here is my money". Go do Gods work and make me some money, honey"

    Its a lot easier for TG to deal with stockholders rather than Bankers.
    21 Dec 2011, 08:37 PM Reply Like
  •  
    IMO the only needed to remove financing concerns is some concrete sales of PbC batteries for purposes other than product development pro-typing. Rosewater Energy and Viridity will be well positioned to make some sales once the modified FERC tariff rules become effective, Also, one might keep in mind that when Axion management says they have enough cash to operate through the second quarter they do so with Q1 flooded acid battery assembly contract expiration in mind. Extension of that contract might extend the cash a bit longer.
    21 Dec 2011, 08:35 PM Reply Like
  •  
    I believe CA ISO (California ISO) recently was the second ISO asking for a delay in implementation of the FERC ruling out to 2013. Not sure if it will happen but that surprising for me as CA utility grid has the highest renewable push by 2020 (30%) where others are at 20% IIRC and where this sort of flexibilty should help more variable forms of energy such as renewables such as wind and hyrdo more than others.

    Also, even though my name is Mike Holt I am not the other guy posting with same name and the positive view of the Volt. It appears via his bio that I lived less than 8 miles from where he works. I've also recently driven a Volt and I have an opposite opinion than him especially if I was still driving NJ interstates.
    22 Dec 2011, 09:52 AM Reply Like
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    I posted an article recently on the CA ISO that spoke about 2012 -

    "In an attempt to remove barriers to more participation in the regulation market, the ISO plans to add the capability to allow energy storage devices to bid in for regulation services in 2012, Abdul-Rahman said, because energy storage “can respond very fast” to either consume or supply energy"

    http://bit.ly/vnXi3H
    22 Dec 2011, 01:12 PM Reply Like
  •  
    mrholty,

    "I've also recently driven a Volt and I have an opposite opinion than him especially if I was still driving NJ interstates"

    I'm curious. They have several Volts around campus that the students can rent when they need to use a car. I've often considered seeing if I could rent one for an hour to try it out. In lieu of that, could you tell me why you have the opinion you have after driving a Volt? What did you like/dislike compared to a normal, compact ICE car?
    Thanks.
    22 Dec 2011, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  •  
    I actually have no problem with the car itself. I just felt that for its price tag it was overpriced for its value even after the Gov't discount. The Volt reminded of the Chevy's I've had as a rental. GM quality has improved but its $13-15k car that would cost me near $30k and it just doesn't work as a value proposition for me.

    On the pure driving aspect It is unnerving how quiet it is. On a busy highway you notice others cars much more. I assume that one would get used to it or atleast use the radio like normal (I wasn't). I was pleasantly surprised how quick the initial response was coming off a light, however I never really got a chance to punch it.

    For a similar price I'd rather get a Maxima or something a little larger for my needs. I live in Socialist Madison, Wi which is filled with Prius' and a strong demand for cars such as these yet its nothing more than a niche. When we came back a women saw it and asked the guy if they sold an AWD version. I think GM would sell more, even if it was $10k more, if the car was a 5 door hatchback or something that the green stay at home mom could use to run her family around in.
    22 Dec 2011, 03:13 PM Reply Like
  •  
    New Topic:

    Maya and I have been discussing the power of Axionista's and their shareholdings. We have no idea if the concentrator readers own more or less than 10 Million shares.

    I will be happy to be the quiet confidential recordkeeper to decide this.
    Simply send me a Private e-mail by holding your mouse over my name (futurist). A send message box appears in the lower left hand corner. Simply tell me the number of shares owned or controlled by you. No personal names please.

    It would be interesting if everyone stated their average cost per share.
    OK, what say you Axionistas
    21 Dec 2011, 09:34 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Sent you my holdings and averages. Fine with me. Might be very useful data we might be able to use to our and Axion's advantage.
    21 Dec 2011, 10:03 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Futurist: This idea has been presented to me before, and I decided against attempting some form of accounting of who owns what and how much. Some may tell the truth, others may not. Some will be open to the idea, some won't. Then there are ghost readers that we will never know of how many shares they own. I'd hate to think of quantifying a plus or minus percentage accuracy as say, in a Harris Poll.

    I'm pretty sure, though, the 10,000,000 figure is a little low. Actually, more likely, way low. And this is why. Do you remember that Thomas called me in my car, left a message that he was wondering when I would show up for the PowerCube ribbon cutting ceremony?

    I believe at the time, I was on the phone with HardToLove. Heck of a call to miss. But that was TG's message. Ergo, he knows that folks who follow the Axion Concentrator hold a significant percentage of Axion stock.

    Still stunned that happened.
    21 Dec 2011, 11:23 PM Reply Like
  •  
    sent mine as well
    22 Dec 2011, 09:46 AM Reply Like
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    For all of those Axionistas that have sent in your stock holdings:

    I wish to report this. 24 different aliases have reported their holdings. Most of you are known by your comments in this blog. For those of you that lurk but do not comment I would say this. No stock activity was reported that seemed so high or extraordinary that I had any reason to doubt it's veracity.

    24 posters have replied with their stock holdings and average price.

    I can confirm that this select group has been bottom fishing. Well done by all of you. No ones average price exceeds $.80. This makes me sad to know that most of you will make more on the Axion rise than I. It has taken me over two years to finally get to an average price of $.78. As I heard on another website " It hurts me deeply knowing someone makes 40% profit when the stock price finally makes me even with the board."

    Nevertheless this is what I expected. Almost all who reported have bought in over the last downturn. The new members, that I categorize as such, have an average price averaging $.60. The total amount of shares reported is 2 Million.

    This confirms that many recent shares have been purchased by the Axionistas.

    I know there are several that have large holdings that are not reporting. I get that and respect it. I know there are lurkers who will never report. I get that and respect it also. But my analysis of what is reported is this.
    A lot of people care about this company. A lot of people are buying this stock that have yet to identify themselves.
    But I will say this. A majority of those reporting are telling me that they are not done buying yet. Dry powder exists and is available when whoever is selling is ready to dump at even lower prices.

    I think the Axionistas scare me. They are a powerful group.
    22 Dec 2011, 09:45 PM Reply Like
  •  
    The Axionistas don't scare me in the least. They're smart people who generally spent a long time making their investment decisions and know why they own this stock. I've always believed that an investor ought to be able to write at least a paragraph or two that explains his investment thesis on every stock he owns. If you and Jakurtz are representative of the Axionistas, it's a very good sign because people who are slow and deliberate with the buy button are usually slow and deliberate with the sell button. As long as I get to a price that makes me happy, I'm delighted that most Axionistas will make more than me on a per share basis.
    23 Dec 2011, 12:02 AM Reply Like
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    Who invented the word, "axionistas?" Great word. Sounds like some pissed off Krauts armed and ready to take on the Latin America drug cartel.
    23 Dec 2011, 12:07 AM Reply Like
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    Anionistas was a collaboration between Poul Brandt and HTLove. Comments are from concentrator 28.

    Poul said "Hej Axionists.
    Filling up at 0,30. Got 50K so far, and now waiting for the next 24K.

    HTL shall we double again at 0,25 or at 0,20? :-)"

    HTL commented "Poul, I think you *almost* coined the name for this crew - you just omitted one syllable, an (Pat, I'd like to buy an) "a".

    Axionistas!

    Now, that has a certain "panache". It has "class". It implies being part of the "literati", etc.

    What do you think?"

    I have to say I think it stuck!!
    Kent
    23 Dec 2011, 01:28 AM Reply Like
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    Futurist, May I ask what was the avg size of holdings reported? I was one who reported mine.
    23 Dec 2011, 01:34 AM Reply Like
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    Futurist,
    Thanks for the update. I actually came on this morning to ask where the count stood. Now I know. Axionistas don't scare me. As John points out we are committed shareholders at a time when Axion really needs committed shareholders to purchase and hold the stock. While most of us are basically bottom feeders, think about where the stock price would be if we hadn't been here in this last year to buy up all the shares that Quercus and Special Sits were dumping.
    With the holidays, I probably won't be around much in the next week. Just wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas/Happy Hanukkah, etc! :-)
    23 Dec 2011, 05:18 AM Reply Like
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    KentG: I wondered the same thing. Although not as accurate as a response from Futurist, I just took the 2 million shares and divided it by the 24 posters and came up with 83k each...
    23 Dec 2011, 10:02 AM Reply Like
  •  
    Deservedly or not, US coal power plants may shut down:

    http://bit.ly/skSeov

    Last I heard, the US grid was already close to maximum capacity. If only there was a product that could not only help shield a company from power fluctuations, but actually send/sell power back to the grid.... hmmmmmm
    21 Dec 2011, 09:41 PM Reply Like
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    Most of the articles I've seen on this suggest that the plants that are involved are at least 50 years old and they've known they were going to have to be closed for a year or two now, so the utilities have been making plans on phasing them out so there isn't a capacity problem. What it will mean is higher rates for everyone.
    21 Dec 2011, 10:28 PM Reply Like
  •  
    rgholbrook: You're on the ball! Today, in Quick Chat, I posted that the EPA today announced that they are clamping down on coal produced electricity.

    Let me go find the article...

    Here ya go:

    http://bit.ly/szwcA9
    21 Dec 2011, 11:26 PM Reply Like
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    LT, could be and certainly likely to mean higher rates in those areas served by the plants closed. Alternative capacity is likely fueled by natural gas and could affect rates elsewhere by firming natural gas prices.
    22 Dec 2011, 12:31 AM Reply Like
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    It's worse than that - ISOs that could sell power into the grid, from even less expensive older coal-fired plants, will have to get power from the more expensive areas to supply not only the areas normally supplied by those old plants, but when more capacity is needed, also to areas supplied by more modern equipment. So the cost effects will be widespread, more or less increase depending on the area.

    Think of it like gasoline prices - a "tax" on the economy as a whole, not just the region normally served by the shut-down plant.

    HardToLove
    22 Dec 2011, 10:30 AM Reply Like
  •  
    Request:

    Can anyone link me to the wondeful story written about Axion;'s history and battle for 7 years. I can't find the link on the Axion Website anymore. I promised a friend a copy of the article.
    Thanks
    21 Dec 2011, 09:41 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Link is here: http://bit.ly/sLmE7c

    You just have to hit the "more stories" link or words to that effect.
    21 Dec 2011, 10:06 PM Reply Like
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    Thanks Bang
    22 Dec 2011, 07:03 AM Reply Like
  •  
    Question for the collective. Futurist's article suggest about 30 PbC electrodes are needed to make a PbC battery. 30 strikes me as an odd number for either 12v or 16v batteries which are the only two battery voltages I've seen discussed by Axion. So I'm wondering about the basis for the number. Is it a working approximation assuming a 50-50 split in production of 12v and 16v batteries?

    I surmise from Axion's white paper on charge acceptance, that Axion primarily envisions BMW implementation of a PbC start/stop system as a LAB or AGM 12 volt starting system coupled with a 16v PbC for hotel loads. Kirk reported that the PowerCube configuration will use 30HT PbC 12v batteries. I have no idea what voltage NS systems use and open to learning if anyone knows.
    22 Dec 2011, 01:10 AM Reply Like
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    Each cell in an AGM battery contains a stack of positive and negative electrodes that are interleaved with separators and top-welded to make the electrical connections. In a lead-lead battery, the most common configuration is six positive electrodes and six negative electrodes per cell.

    If you go to Slide 8 of the current Investor Presentation on the Axion website the pictures will give you a good feel for how the electrodes are put together within a cell.

    In a PbC battery the normal configuration is six lead electrodes and five carbon electrode assemblies per cell, which where the figure of 30 electrodes for a 12 Volt battery comes from.

    To make a 16 Volt battery in a given case size, you have to divide the case into 8 cells instead of 6 and each cell has to be about 3/4 the width of a cell in a 12 Volt battery. That means you'll use fewer carbon electrode assemblies per cell: probably 5 lead and 4 carbon.

    At the end of the day, it will take 30 carbon electrode assemblies to build a 12 Volt battery and it will probably take 32 carbon electrode assemblies to make a 16 Volt battery.
    22 Dec 2011, 01:44 AM Reply Like
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    Thanks, John.
    22 Dec 2011, 03:44 PM Reply Like
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    DRich is the go to guy on trains, but trains use 48V so I think 3 16V batteries are a natural for trains versus 4 12V batteries. Only slightly higher but same footprint.
    22 Dec 2011, 01:26 AM Reply Like
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    Thanks, BW
    22 Dec 2011, 03:44 PM Reply Like
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    From JP's quarterly roundup article "Fear, Loathing And Extraordinary Opportunity In Energy Storage" link here http://bit.ly/tlvWpt JP stated "On December 31, 2010, my core list of 18 pure-play energy storage device manufacturers had a combined market value of $5.9 billion. At last Friday's close, the 12 survivors had a combined value of $2.4 billion."

    With that much sector and industry carnage is it any wonder Axion's price has declined dramatically? Looks like the sector needs to make a lot of PbC's with the higher price and value than plain old flooded or AGM batteries.

    I'm up to my eyeballs in risk with my all-in position with Axion but I love my horse in this race. I think Axion just needs to buy time for now - the technology is clearly superior for many energy storage applications.
    22 Dec 2011, 01:32 AM Reply Like
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    A123 Systems (Nasdaq:AONE), a developer and manufacturer of advanced Nanophosphate lithium ion batteries and systems, today announced that it will supply a Grid Battery System (GBS) to Maui Electric Company (MECO), a utility serving residents and businesses on the islands of Maui, Lanai and Molokai in Hawaii. To be installed at MECO's Wailea Substation on Maui, the advanced energy storage system will be designed to deliver one-megawatt (1MW) of power for a full hour to reduce the peak energy load on one of the substation's transformers, which is expected to increase grid stability and improve power quality to help MECO meet the objectives of the Maui Smart Grid Project.
    "A123's advanced energy storage system has demonstrated the ability to shift peak energy loads when demand is high to provide the consistent delivery of quality power, which is an extremely valuable service that supports MECO's ongoing effort to increase the reliability of the grid and maximize the generation resources we have in place," said Ed Reinhardt, Maui Electric president. "The Maui Smart Grid Project will enable us to evaluate new technologies for enhancing our operations, and we look forward to the successful demonstration of A123's versatile energy storage solution in not only meeting our peak load shifting requirements, but also performing a number of additional valuable services."
    Led by MECO and the Hawaii Natural Energy Institute, the Maui Smart Grid Project is designed to help MECO demonstrate and evaluate new technologies for operating the electric grid more efficiently. The project also aims to help residents better manage and reduce energy consumption during periods of high demand. Specific objectives include reducing distribution circuit peak load, minimizing emissions, enabling greater utilization of renewable energy sources and improving power quality and grid stability. A123's GBS storage systems are designed to provide a complete, turnkey solution to help MECO meet these objectives by providing a number of services in addition to peak-load shifting, including regulating voltage fluctuation, reactive power (VAR) support and relieving wind curtailment.
    "The Maui Smart Grid Project is an excellent opportunity for A123 to showcase the flexibility of our dynamic GBS product, and we look forward to working with MECO to illustrate the value of our technology within the framework of the next-generation electric grid," said Robert Johnson, vice president of the Energy Solutions Group at A123. "We believe that our energy storage system will help MECO meet the ambitions objectives of the Maui Smart Grid Project and further demonstrate the commercial benefits of our solutions."
    22 Dec 2011, 09:26 AM Reply Like
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    LT,
    You posted this in the last concentrator. Is there something new here that I'm not seeing? Didn't get much sleep last night, so don't know if I'm just missing things.
    Thanks.
    22 Dec 2011, 09:43 AM Reply Like
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    I thought this is a second deal with a different company. The first deal was Maui Electric and this deal is with Sempra.

    Correct me if I am wrong...I am not pushing AONE, just noting that there seems to be a growing demand for the grid, wind & solar projects for storage. As JLP said, A123 has had setbacks in the auto industry and is having to change their model, but it seems there is takers trying it and that bodes well for AXPW in the future.
    22 Dec 2011, 09:51 AM Reply Like
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    LT check you post above again. The one you posted today is the Maui Electric one again. Is there a new one with Sempra that you meant to post?
    I'm confused.
    22 Dec 2011, 01:29 PM Reply Like
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    Ah, I see what happened. There is a second deal with Sempra for an 11 MW GBS system in Hawaii. It's just not the one you cut and pasted above. Here's the link to the Sempra one:

    http://yhoo.it/rW9k1r

    11 MW. Now that is a big system with a lot of batteries.
    22 Dec 2011, 02:03 PM Reply Like
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    Thanks for the correct link, I can only copy & paste off of schwab, and that's where most of my news comes from.
    Sorry for the mistake.
    22 Dec 2011, 03:46 PM Reply Like
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    Traders should watch stocks which deal in batteries as the US Consumer Product Safety Commission just announced a voluntary recall of Rayovac NI-CD Cordless Tool Battery Packs due to reported unexpected explosions.
    EnerSys (NYSE: ENS), A123 (Nasdaq: AONE), Spectrum Brands (NYSE: SPB), Energizer (NYSE: ENR).
    News Provided by Acquire Media Corporation
    22 Dec 2011, 09:28 AM Reply Like
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    "due to reported unexpected explosions"

    Well, right there is why Li-ion will be wildly successful. They have "expected explosions" (and fires)! ;-))

    As long as they're expected, everything's OK!

    HardToLove
    22 Dec 2011, 10:55 AM Reply Like
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    Bloomberg did a video on Cargo Plane risk (note the description doesn't worry about the pilots ... )

    Dec. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Batteries used in mobile phones and laptop computers, which can spontaneously combust, will destroy an average of one U.S.-registered cargo jet every other year, a government analysis has concluded. Shipments of lithium batteries that size have been linked to two U.S. cargo-jet accidents since 2006. The batteries aren’t presently treated as hazardous and Congress is debating whether to exempt them from stricter rules. Bloomberg's Lizzie O'Leary reports. (Source: Bloomberg)

    http://bloom.bg/rUVoTf

    see also (older, Aug 26, sorry if repeat) http://bit.ly/uqr2OI
    23 Dec 2011, 02:48 PM Reply Like
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    Mr.Holty: "I believe CA ISO (California ISO) recently was the second ISO asking for a delay in implementation of the FERC ruling out to 2013."

    Why would anyone want to delay this after all the benefits the committee published?
    22 Dec 2011, 10:09 AM Reply Like
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    CA ISO was against this reg during the hearings. Think about it. You are a power producer. This rule will potentially allow thousands of small companies to buy your power during off peak cheap times and sell it back to the grid during peak rate times. You sell more cheap power and less high priced power. Your income goes down. The consumer benefits but since when are private power companies run for the benefit of the customer?
    22 Dec 2011, 10:20 AM Reply Like
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    Utilities have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the distributed power process.
    22 Dec 2011, 10:21 AM Reply Like
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    One more issue to consider is rates based upon installed infrastructure. In TX utilities are typically given rate increases based partly upon capital costs. Building new plants to meet demand gives the utility more infrastructure which allows for rate increases to pay for it. Allowing new demand to be met by third party suppliers gives nothing to the utility. Executives are often compensated based upon the size in assets and sales of the company. So a larger company in total assets and with more sales means a larger compensation package for the CEO. So tell me again why the CEO would want a smaller company with less sales?
    22 Dec 2011, 10:28 AM Reply Like
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    >Ricknplano ... Good point .... but ... ,at present, there is no demonstrated means to implement this scheme that makes economic sense. I'm talking in terms of a "utilities" state of mind. Yes, we have flywheels, batteries, pumped hydro and such. All of which just popped up seemingly out of nowhere and have no track record or history, therefore, no reliability factor. Utilities want to know that a resource they are paying for will be there and not just now but 20 years from now. Shifting the operations model to depend on the complete unknown is waaaaaaay beyond utility generators comfort zone. Testing needs to continue.
    22 Dec 2011, 10:31 AM Reply Like
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    If I understand the issue correctly, the utility is not paying for anything. The third party is supplying everything. The utility is just allowing interconnection with the grid, nothing more or less. Am I missing something here? What is the utility paying for that they need for 20 years?
    22 Dec 2011, 10:37 AM Reply Like
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    I realize that one part of the business model is for the utility to use distributed power themselves, in lieu of new plants, so I can see where they would have reservations in that regard. But the bigger market, to my mind, is the individual users, like Axion, who will save or even make money with their own individually owned system like the PowerCube at Axion's location.
    22 Dec 2011, 10:40 AM Reply Like
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    >Ricknplano ... I believe ( & I could be wrong) that utilities will buy the regulating power from these private suppliers? From the standpoint of grid operations, if your going to change the way the grid is operated it has to be long term predictable and reliable. Hundreds of private points of regulation are unreliable because

    1) you don't know if they willingly will build the capacity you need or will over build it.
    2) you don't know if it will be available in quantity required because of private use requirements and maintenance.
    3) you don't know if it will be available in the grid sectors it is most needed.

    I know it's popular with people here to believe "private" is way better than "public" but giving up control and operational flexibility to the unregulated private sector is not a proven social good at the moment. The supply systems are not proven to be reliable and the integration is not worked out. California has already suffer deregulation and has to look no further than Texas to see further deregulation (or privatization, if you will) leading to deteriorating service. Private is nice until you find your just one of the under-served public.

    I could go on & on but I'm pressed for time. This is just my take on how an ISO & regulatory entity would look at the emerging storage & frequency market right now. I'm hoping that this will change to my benefit quickly, but few industries resist change more than electric utilities. For good reason.
    22 Dec 2011, 11:05 AM Reply Like
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    If I remember earlier in the year, they made public comments in the hearings against the rule ... but the article I linked to above is from 12/13 ....

    So maybe they were against and are now trying to find a way to adopt and make it work for the?
    22 Dec 2011, 01:42 PM Reply Like
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    >Isd_Ism ... It may be just me but I take the objection from Ca ISO to be one of timing. No one is arguing there is no need or it's not a need overdue. They would rather implement it in an orderly manner with systems tested and economically sensible. Forcing the question is to nobody's self interest. I also think that even as testing, procedure & operational authority is worked out, those people putting solutions into demonstration should be paid for the risk involved. Something like a "public/private partnership".
    22 Dec 2011, 02:26 PM Reply Like
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    >Richnplano ... I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that the grid side of distributed power is counted as the utility asset and not the private owner. Should make for some good legal wrangling.
    22 Dec 2011, 02:30 PM Reply Like
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    DRich - Perhaps I am missing something here, but I have the impression utilities need not deal with hundreds or even multiple dozens of private firms. Those hundreds of private firms will presumably contract with new coordinating service firms such as Viridity which will interface with grid operators and/or utilities. The Viridities of the world will know how much reserve capacity they have under contract, when and how much additional capacity is planned, and coordinate "calls" and "puts" of power from and to reserve capacity under contract.
    22 Dec 2011, 04:21 PM Reply Like
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    >D-inv ... po-ta-toes/po-to-toes. Whether its Duke Energy or Viridity, the backside of the meter is the private, the grid side is the utility. Both named entities know their reserves and demand ramp time. It's the ISO grid dispatcher/manager that calls the shots about how much is needed, when & in what sector. Lumped together they make up "The Utility".

    Really the only thing I'm trying to point out is that this is uncharted territory. Here's just a "for instance". Say your an office building or small manufacturer with a PowerCube in a specific sub-station sector. Your in the same sub as a high value customer, say a semiconductor fab. A summer time rolling blackout or brownout is heading your way. Who gets first priority from storage and how much? Your site or the high value customer. Do you get a premium price compared to the adjoining sub that is contributing power but has no high value customers? Just who makes the decision about how much storage is needed in any given grid sector?

    I may be just being a Nervous Nelly, but I've got questions that I haven't got answers for. I don't know if my questions are even relevant. I'm sure someone looking to invest in a distributed energy storage system will have questions too. I'm a big fan of distributed power. It is the future, I think. I just don't know how it will work.
    22 Dec 2011, 05:47 PM Reply Like
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    Thanks for voicing some of the questions and concerns. I prefer a "Goldilocks" PbC battery demand outlook - not too bullish, not too bearish, but just right. Understanding where possible market impediments lie and what may be involved in overcoming them is what I am after here.
    22 Dec 2011, 06:54 PM Reply Like
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    I'm not in the industry so I cannot comment specifically but from my readings about it there is concern about how negwatts would be calculated especially for businesses who claim they are pulling demand off but in fact are just not using less. They don't want to incentive the wrong way.

    Also, its change and people don't like it.
    22 Dec 2011, 10:29 AM Reply Like
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    I will continue any discussions about utilities with DRich separately so as not to waste everyone's time on a tangent issue.

    The reporter I contacted about Axion, Carl Franz, appears to be working on an article. He submitted questions to TG and received written responses today. When I last heard from Carl he said he expects to have an article ready in the next two weeks. Len Hall at the Allen Carron company is handling the communications. By the way, Len says media interest in Axion has risen significantly since the press release about the PowerCube.
    22 Dec 2011, 12:04 PM Reply Like
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    >Richnplano ... Tell if I'm wrong and that includes everyone here, but talking about things that work against the fast implementation of solutions, suchas the PowerCube, is legit for this forum. There are actual regulatory, public & corporate interests that go against what we all hope will happen. It is not conspiracy theory (in my mind at least) but economic reasoning. The better we understand both sides the better judgement we can make toward progress in Axion and ... you never know ... maybe a topic people here can directly address to TPTB might crop up.
    22 Dec 2011, 02:52 PM Reply Like
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    "There are actual regulatory, public & corporate interests that go against what we all hope will happen."

    The going against "corporate interests" has always been my only fear with AXPW. Their product has the potential to disrupt too many current business plans. (the only other, is patent protection)
    22 Dec 2011, 03:39 PM Reply Like
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    Hi Rick,
    Many thanks for your PR effort for Axion.
    I checked Allen Carron - seems it is a company specialized in SIR and CC for small caps. Hopefully it can do a wonderful job for Axion power.
    Also, on Allen Carron webpage, there is an article about January Effect on Small Caps stock performance (http://bit.ly/usBzpI). Hopefully it will work for AXPW and hopefully we, axiontas, are all prepared for it.
    22 Dec 2011, 03:40 PM Reply Like
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    "I will continue any discussions about utilities with DRich separately so as not to waste everyone's time on a tangent issue."

    I agree with DRich. I don't think utility issues are a tangent for the concentrator. They are a reality that Axion is going to have to deal with if they are going to sell PowerCubes into the market.
    22 Dec 2011, 03:56 PM Reply Like
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    I and I think all of us want a balanced forum so we can properly measure risk. The Brand X discussion board is a useless forum because legitimate discussion is completely drowned out in new sock puppet and omyomy posts. This should be the one place current and potential investors can rely on for fair and balanced discussion about Axion's risks and potential rewards.

    I think the PbC offers a lower cost solution than lithium ion and better performance where needed compared to flooded and AGM lead acid batteries. Given the current economy implementation of new unestablished technologies is inherently slower than the sale of existing products.

    Axion needs to buy time for potential buyers to be convinced the PbC and Axion is here to stay and that the product works as advertised. The rest will follow although it may not be on the timeline we would prefer. Trains are the one bright spot that might alter the time for a significant return on our investments and that will play out one way or another in 2012.
    22 Dec 2011, 04:01 PM Reply Like
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    >LT ... I wasn't even thinking about competitors when I said "corporate interests". I was thinking about public/private interests like those involved with water during drought or city/farmers. Who gets first priority to how much power? Who actually controls the asset?
    22 Dec 2011, 04:03 PM Reply Like
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    Frrat: Thanks for that link. I feel more comfortable with some of my musings just from this one paragraph.

    "At least two theories are offered for why this occurs. Some suggest the weaker small stocks are often sold off in December so losses can be used for tax purposes, and then bought back in January; others say it’s about mutual funds selling stocks that have had losses in December so they don’t get mentioned in their year-end report, then buying them back in December, according to the WSJ."

    At least I'm not alone with my "tin-foil hat'! :-))

    HardToLove
    22 Dec 2011, 04:15 PM Reply Like
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    HT Love, you are welcome! I also hope the January effect can bring back my control over my trading account....
    22 Dec 2011, 07:22 PM Reply Like
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    DR,
    I find this discussion refreshing and invigorating. It proved my knowledge of the utility industry to be obscenely small.

    I found an article that explained to me the baisics of Power generation. As I understand it the Power companies provide their basic low volume need through cheap generation like nuclear, coal, or hydro. These give them their basic everyday cheap electric that meets their lowest needs.

    The next level is the intermediate need. Gas and oil generators kick on to supply an intermediate need of power. No reason to build huge generating stations when a limited amount of pwer is needed each day. Renewables work well in this area. Wind, Solar, etc. Not always available but here to help when we can kind of resource.

    The Peak usage is the hardest. What does a utility buy to provide immediate huge usage during a heat wave or cold snap. Battery powered saving from the renewables would be good. Any other cheap quick source would help.

    Obviously, if the grid could use existing battery back-ups to help alleviate the need for quick energy at Peak times then that particular "behind the meter" resource would be valuable.

    This is all I know. Axion PbCs sound like an immediate solution to at least part of this issue. Since this is all I know could you enlighten us as to my mistakes or where I am wrong in my elementary analysis.
    22 Dec 2011, 08:23 PM Reply Like
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    >Futurist ... I think Axion's PbC is a good solution to short duration peaking demands. I just think the implementation is hazy. There are a lot of cautious players out there that take loosing power very poorly.
    22 Dec 2011, 08:32 PM Reply Like
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    DR,
    Your admonition is greatly appreciated. Your suggesting that many users of back up power want 100% of the back-up power 100% of the time. Lets assume that is true. That doesn't mean that thousands or hundred of thousand users of back-up power would not give up some power to the grid when needed, if they are compensated. I believe it makes the market smaller but do not believe that a huge market does not exist.
    The proof is in the pudding ( or orders for the PowerCube in this case).
    If I am theoretically wrong I would encourage you to point out where I am mistaken. I promise I do know my limitations and my science is pretty limited.
    22 Dec 2011, 09:07 PM Reply Like
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    Yep, bang. I'm not certain exactly when the reins of this wonderful Concentrator will be turned over to whatever we as a group think it should evolve into. But, I'm all for fair and balanced discussion--that phrase, "fair and balanced discussion," should be included in the Concentrator mission statement.

    I feel pretty lucky so far that I haven't had to break out the whip or phaser gun, or use the Delete Function, except on myself, when I caught myself writing something pleonastic; a point that had been simultaneously covered by another commenter.

    I agree that the present stock price needs some time to go up. More and more, some form of bridge loan makes sense.
    22 Dec 2011, 09:54 PM Reply Like
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    >Futurist ... My point is not to reprimand but to face an aspect of reality. Curb Your Enthusiasm, if you will.

    It only natural to want 100% back-up at your disposal, even if you calculated the actual need to be less. A scenario; Your an IT manager responsible for server power. Now you've gone and bought this brand new technology that is 'the cat's meow', figured your needs, bought 125% of those needs and will make money on the excess selling it back to the grid. One hot summer day a rolling blackout hits your servers. You don't know if the system will work because it is basically a "first of it's kind" and totally new to you. You'll be sweating your career on your decision the entire time even if the system works the way it's advertised. These are legitimate risks that may make a PowerCube a hard sell.

    View this as the other side of the coin from John's newest article on distributed cost of energy storage.
    22 Dec 2011, 09:59 PM Reply Like
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    DR... Interesting, useful thoughts. A number of vested interests "behind the meter" could slow PowerCube (PC) market development in the power using communities. Applications "in front of the meter" may have better short-term prospects. By "in front of the meter" I thinking windpower farms, and potentially some traditional electric power utilities. Would there not be potential for PC sales to utilities as a short-term response tool in dealing with some power outages due to storm damage? Bundled in 22' and 40' trailers, PC's could be mobile power supply units utilities and/or FEMA could dispatch to temporarily power emergency response command centers and/or some zones/communities for long enough to prevent or minimize spoilage of refrigerator contents. Gated residential communities, eighborhood associations and municipalities could also be potential buyers in areas where power outages are frequent.

    For example, a day or so ago I read an article in the Washington Examiner (http://tinyurl.com/7ht...) reporting on assessment of a $1 million fine for failure to maintain reliable power service and imposing a requirement to develop and present a five year improvement plan. One affected local jurisdiction claimed PEPCO power outages had cost their residents from $23 million - $115 million. (I have made Rosewater Energy aware of the article and Public Utility Commission mandate.) Since Maryland and Washnington DC (both served by PEPCO) are included in the RGM power grid and RGM has approved PC connections to its regional grid, I perceive a prospect for some near term PC sales.
    22 Dec 2011, 11:33 PM Reply Like
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    >D-inv ... Wholly owned and dispatched "in-front of the meter" is the easier sell as is the dedicated "behind the meter" usage. Both are huge markets, both are intuitive and understood. Much as I like the idea of distributive power straddling the meter, it is new both in concept and application devices. It will sell. I just don't think it is the market that will catch fire right now.
    22 Dec 2011, 11:40 PM Reply Like
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    "about half of all u.s. mutual funds end their fiscal year between October and December"

    This is a little different than just Quarter end on 12/31.

    But it is related (I believe) to having time to compute capital gains to be announced (and often reinvested) at the end of the year.

    Point is that some selling in some issues may start earlier than you think ...

    CNBC (video) discussion from end of October talks about doing this with a Basket of stocks:

    http://bit.ly/tokhzs
    23 Dec 2011, 03:51 PM Reply Like
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    Rick: Who is Carl Franz? I see a few of them on Linkedin.
    22 Dec 2011, 12:31 PM Reply Like
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    Actually, I see I mispelled his name. Carl Franzen. You can find more about him here:

    http://bit.ly/vSBeMC
    22 Dec 2011, 01:02 PM Reply Like
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    OT: XIDE making a little move today
    22 Dec 2011, 03:09 PM Reply Like
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    Let me restate that: XIDE up more than 10 percent on significant volume (1.5 million)
    22 Dec 2011, 06:41 PM Reply Like
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    I bought XIDE at 4.80 and 10.50...........long way to go........

    Both XIDE and ACPW gave me disappointment this year but XIDE has a established business and ACPW's revenue is growing up. Time......will solve problem and stock price will go up eventually. Always problem is...time.
    22 Dec 2011, 07:56 PM Reply Like
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    I think Exide's main problem is Tontine.

    Just like Axion, there is a determined seller out there pushing the share supply curve out of whack.

    As soon as Tontine stops selling XIDE the price will return to the levels of last year $10+.

    Perhaps that time is now.
    23 Dec 2011, 03:03 PM Reply Like
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    At September 30th Tontine owned 7.8 million Exide shares.

    http://1.usa.gov/t7Qtcd

    Since the, cumulative trading volume in Exide has been 68 million shares. Given the way Exide's stock has cratered over the last three months it's possible that Tontine has liquidated their entire position, but it's hard to believe that a single holder could account for more than 10% of total volume in a company the size of Exide.
    23 Dec 2011, 03:14 PM Reply Like
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    bought a little bit at 0.291
    22 Dec 2011, 03:44 PM Reply Like
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    Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah from a mostly lurker who liked your article very much, Futurist. I currently hold just under 50K shares with a 0.65 cost basis.

    I would be happy to buy another 10K at 0.25 if anyone is interested. Sooner is better, bottom fishing up North here is very cold this time of year. If we keep getting articles like yours that spread the blessings of Carbon to the masses, I fear my hook will remain empty.
    23 Dec 2011, 10:10 AM Reply Like
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    John,

    Going back to your supply and demand viewpoint for a moment. In the absence of positive news how does the stock price climb? Is it simply that the sellers will no longer be offering shares therefore folks would have to bid higher? Given the recent price slump how do investors make that step in their minds to pay more than folks have been for the last 2-3 weeks at 30 cents? I just wonder how the S&D dynamic works when we don't have positive news. Or will we keep sloshing around this range until positive news arrives?
    23 Dec 2011, 11:37 AM Reply Like
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    Some months back I wrote an article on why I think Axion's stock price will recover promptly when the selling pressure abates. Rather than re-write the thesis in a comment, I'll refer you to the article and then ask you to come back here with any questions.

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    23 Dec 2011, 12:20 PM Reply Like
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    It seems simple, yet I just have a hard time understanding how a large buyer (maybe small) gets over the mental hurdle of getting to say .35 then .40 without seeing good news. Maybe its just a small trickle at first followed by a flood.

    Given that I'm not too worried about pennies, I bought this stock with a long-term view and this small blip doesn't concern me. 2012's news will carry the day and we'll be handsomely rewarded for it. Still I wish I had more cash to buy at these levels :)
    23 Dec 2011, 01:09 PM Reply Like
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    Articula: Rudy Barrio, Axion's NYC-based Investor's Relations, said to me about large investing houses, which are showing interest, is that they would rather jump in the elevator at the 20th floor when it's on the way to the 80th floor, than jump in right now.

    A marquee order may just change that. Millions of shares have been traded in the past few months. Somebody, hopefully lots of bodies, are buying shares other than those following this Concentrator.

    I have no doubt that when good news comes next year, we will see buyers overwhelm sellers.

    All this requires are guts and patience right now.
    23 Dec 2011, 01:22 PM Reply Like
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    Articula, thanks for asking JP that question as I have been wondering that same thing for a while now.

    John, A fine read that was. Thanks for all you do for us under experienced investors who want and need to learn to survive.

    Happy holidays all
    23 Dec 2011, 01:23 PM Reply Like
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    If you look at what's happened over the last 18 months there were a few very large sellers and a huge number of smaller buyers. Futurist has been running a poll of active Concentrator readers who typically have built positions in the 100,000 share range. For every buyer like that, there are ten more who bought 5,000 or 10,0000 or 15,000 shares and don't spend much time tracking their investment because it's not that much money. He's also reported several indications that active Concentrator types want to buy more, but plan to bottom feed for as long as they can.

    While it's just an educated guess, I'd be willing to bet that for every investor who has bought shares over the last 18 months, there are three or four more lurking on the sidelines trying to decide whether they want to buy now or wait for some future event.

    When the selling pressure abates, the active Concentrators who want to buy more will feel a degree of pressure to pay up and get their position in place before something happens. As the price starts to firm the lurkers who want to be on board before the train leaves the station will come to the party. As the price continues to ramp, it will draw in other lurkers and the result will be a new trend that's very different from the old one for one simple reason – a holder with 8 million shares who decides to sell can adversely impact the market for months at a time. A thousand holders with 8,000 shares each can adversely impact the market for a few minutes, unless something bad happens that turns a large percentage of the holders into sellers.
    23 Dec 2011, 01:36 PM Reply Like
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    If you wonder how the stock might appreciate for no really tangible reason, then take a look at the ride up in February and March of this year. The trick, it seems, is keeping it up there. I do subscribe to one of John's copyrighted quotes to this point: that you only recognize the inflection point in the rear view mirror (hope I have not butchered that too badly).

    Happy Holidays
    23 Dec 2011, 01:51 PM Reply Like
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    The February-March run up was a classic example of what happens when selling pressure drops off. The April-May decline was a classic example of what happens when other large stockholders become willing sellers. We know from the regulatory filings that Quercus and Special Situations only had a limited number of shares left at the end of September. So unless one of the other large stockholders decides to shoot itself in the foot, the supply and demand dynamic has to correct itself very soon.

    It's far from copyrighted but I've been in this kind of supply and demand situation several times and I've never been able to identify the inflection point till I could see it in the rear-view mirror. That being said I'm paying closer attention this time around and I won't be taken by surprise this time.
    23 Dec 2011, 02:07 PM Reply Like
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    Agreed. It was pure supply demand dynamics!
    23 Dec 2011, 03:42 PM Reply Like
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    The Axion Power Concentrator wishes all a happy, festive and safe Holiday Season!

    (So do I!)
    23 Dec 2011, 11:46 AM Reply Like
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    We will soon find out the true cost of an Axion PbC battery. The cost that we have used in speculation is double the cost of an AGM battery or $250.

    Well we are home for the holidays and I have a little more time to spend on this topic so I am going raise the point that most of the premium AGM batteries are already well beyond this figure. Try to find an Odyssey, Optima, Lifeline, Concord, Chairman or other premium group 31 battery for under $250.

    Don't be surprised to see the cost above $250 or even $300 as it will be well worth the price. I would replace my Lifeline's at $300 each in an instant...
    23 Dec 2011, 12:01 PM Reply Like
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    I'd really like to know what the net profit per battery is
    23 Dec 2011, 02:12 PM Reply Like
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    At some point we'll have a pretty good idea what the gross profit on a PbC battery is, but we'll never have a reliable number for net profit per battery because that number moves up and down with volume and corporate overheads.
    23 Dec 2011, 02:23 PM Reply Like
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    Don't forget that using the carbon negative electrode to replace the lead negative electrodes is a reduction in lead content and an increase in performance with no or little change to the manufacturing process, so the price of the PbC battery will reflect this dynamic.
    23 Dec 2011, 04:02 PM Reply Like
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    5K at 0.295 to go toward the Occupy Taos Fund.

    Merry Christmas to John, Maya, HTL and the other Magi who have watched over the baby Axion this year!
    23 Dec 2011, 04:03 PM Reply Like
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    I can't believe the volumes at this price. In the fall we were lucky to get 50k shares a day. Volumes have really picked up! It's just amazing to see. 300k+ shares on the day before x-mas eve. I think some folks are pickin this up to stuff their stockings by this time next year!
    23 Dec 2011, 07:18 PM Reply Like
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    In mid-October the 10-day moving average volume hit a low for the year of 44,300 shares a day. Yesterday the 10-day moving average volume stood at 360,600 shares a day. An 8x swing over a couple months is big in anybody's book. The price trend since mid-October has been dismal. The only times I've seen markets behave like this are when a large holder (Special Situations is my prime suspect) decides to exit a stock completely by a target date (year end?). To make that happen on a schedule, the seller has to find a low enough offer price that nobody's willing to follow him down. I've always referred to that as a "peremptory offer," meaning that the guy who's willing to live with the low offer gets all the trading volume. Once that seller runs out of stock, the peremptory offer disappears and he becomes a historical footnote.
    24 Dec 2011, 12:56 AM Reply Like
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    I for one am hoping it becomes much more than a footnote to many of us ... but instead one of the greatest "Christmas Presents" ever!
    24 Dec 2011, 09:48 AM Reply Like
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    Total volume was 1.8 million shares in October, 5.4 million shares in November and 7.2 million shares so far in December. If volume continues to ramp at present rates it will overwhelm all potential supply in short order.
    24 Dec 2011, 10:35 AM Reply Like
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    Look at the volume by price today on this chart, as well as money flow. I like the fact that by and large the .30 triple bottom has held up pretty well with some brief trips up or down, but tons of shares have been purchased at .30. Bodes well for the future when and if an uptrend develops. I expect that, just reluctant to declare victory and go home.

    http://bit.ly/tYkFK0
    23 Dec 2011, 08:30 PM Reply Like
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    Bang: The TA term for that is a "distributive bottom," which is normally a bullish indicator. Usually, and from my experience, typically with a penny stock, I like to see very low volume, kind of like the stock went off everyone's radar, in conjuction with the distributive bottom formation.

    But in Axion's case we're seeing higher daily volumes than we were in the early fall. Haven't had the time to take a peek at Level 2 during the past two trading sessions. But if it's following what I noticed earlier this week and last week, that the block sizes are increasing on the buy side, then that holds some bullish lean to it, too.
    23 Dec 2011, 09:39 PM Reply Like
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    High volume at 0.3 range is not what I had expected. I understand during down trend high volume appears and near bottem, volume decreases and stay there for a while and as volume increases again, price either go up or go down(I do not want to imagine this another down trend, hell please no...)

    It has not been long since pps hit 0.3 so volume may decreas soon. I do not know............

    I just want to FEEL or SEE that sellers are almost gone !
    23 Dec 2011, 10:23 PM Reply Like
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    300,000 shares today were sold. 300,000 shares were purchased. I don't know where these strong buyers are coming from but they just keep on coming.
    23 Dec 2011, 10:26 PM Reply Like
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    Quick question!

    OTC volume 300,000 means 150,000 sold 150,000 purchased?
    300,000 sold 300,000 purchased?
    23 Dec 2011, 10:30 PM Reply Like
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    pianomanshi> 150K sold - 150K bought. OTC markets are electronic markets only so they count every electronic transaction - both the buy and the sell - so it is a double count. Divide volume by two to get actual number of shares that changed hands.
    23 Dec 2011, 10:38 PM Reply Like
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    Thanks ! and Merry Christmas !

    Merry Christmas everyone!
    23 Dec 2011, 10:41 PM Reply Like
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    Futurist: Have to halve your comment. More than 300,000 shares was the volume, not what was traded. Please remember the times two effect the "middle dealers" create.
    24 Dec 2011, 12:53 AM Reply Like
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    Well, futurist. I purchased the 50K :-)
    24 Dec 2011, 05:43 AM Reply Like
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    Perhaps we should forget about volume so much and look at the $$ actually used to buy or sell.

    150k*.3 = $45,000

    Really not that much to write home about in stock market terms.

    While we know many of us "strong hands" can't resist nibbling on a little more of what hopefully is the biggest stock market gift we'll receive in our lifetimes, I don't for a minute assume that all the buyers are strong hands.

    There could easily be included a few "Rich Hands" merely playing the tax loss season that will be happy to sell for a mere 25% short term gain.

    Furthermore, if these energy storage trends start to get truly recognized by the market, these volumes might seem quaint one of these days within 2 years, and our hardest job will be deciding what's our "Core Position" and what's our "Trading Position."
    24 Dec 2011, 10:03 AM Reply Like
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    Distributive bottom - I had a girlfriend with one of those once.
    24 Dec 2011, 11:02 AM Reply Like
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    Year to date volume in Axion is 71.3 million shares, or about 0.9x the issued and outstanding stock. To put that number in perspective, Exide turned its outstanding stock 2.8 times, Active Power turned its outstanding stock 2.1 times and Maxwell and ZBB both turned their outstanding stock 1.7 times.

    Axion has made huge progress in the volume department over the last three years, but it's just now getting to a point of credible liquidity. If it can double or triple volume yet again in 2012, it will have enough activity to convince most market observers of its credibility.
    24 Dec 2011, 11:05 AM Reply Like
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    >JP ... I'm still a bit fuzzy about what happens when we hit the bottom of the supply barrel. I know price should rise but salable stock might not be there for normal market activity at volume. I know the shares I own aren't for sale/trade until AXPW hits $3.00 or $0.15 (and I'd have to think about that). That could put a crimp in selling the shelf in a lump, which is how I understand a lot of people think it will be done. Is it in the interest of Axion to farm out the shelf sale to a professional trading house to maximize return over a given period of time (assuming that private sales at market aren't accomplished)?
    24 Dec 2011, 02:11 PM Reply Like
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    "Distributive bottom - I had a girlfriend with one of those once."

    I can't resist! What'd she do, join a health club to get rid of it?

    >:-))

    HardToLove
    24 Dec 2011, 02:29 PM Reply Like
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    It's not all that unusual to see prices rise rapidly when a supply and demand imbalance is resolved. I can remember one case in early '98 where a client's stock climbed 500% in two weeks for no apparent reason. When the price increase held, a long line of investors formed outside the CEOs door. They all wanted to buy block positions at the current price, but knew they couldn't buy them in the market without driving he price to silly levels.

    I still believe $1.20 was FMV in December 2009 (2x the private placement price) and in a normal market (1) the Norfolk Southern relationship would have been worth a 50% bump into the $1.80 range; (2) the BMW relationship would have been worth another 50% bump into the $2.70 range; (3) the Viridity-PJM announcement would have been worth a bump into the high-$3s; and (4) the market would be discounting the stock back into the high-$2s in anticipation of a new financing round.

    The shelf shares will not be sold into the open market. Instead, Axion will hire an underwriter who will then place the shares with a modest number of institutional investors or hedge funds that may or may not subsequently resell the shares into the market.
    24 Dec 2011, 02:33 PM Reply Like
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    I imagine D. McHattie worked it off for her :)
    24 Dec 2011, 02:50 PM Reply Like
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    I was like that for awhile pianomanshi. When Quercus refiled last time it felt like the end of the world for me because I just wanted it to stop raining on my investment (and wallet). Then I realized I wasn't going to sell, rain or no rain, so I quit worrying about it - and started buying when it got in the 30's.The selling will end when it ends.
    24 Dec 2011, 06:13 PM Reply Like
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    Wow Poul, congratulation! I envy you so much!
    From what you posted, I think you are one of not-so-many big strong hands that keep adding AXPW at the bottom...I am curious to know if Futurist's share counting includes yours or not. I hope you are missed out....
    24 Dec 2011, 07:58 PM Reply Like
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    Frrat. Yes I was missed out. But not any more.
    25 Dec 2011, 08:32 AM Reply Like
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    You know, Futurist, I'm always there to help my girl in any way I can. :)

    D
    26 Dec 2011, 06:04 PM Reply Like
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    Several posters ( and lurkers) are still sending me their Axion stock holding information. I will try and post some semblance of a report over the Holiday weekend.

    Happy Holidays to all of you. And for those who trusted me with your information, I thank you for the compliment.
    23 Dec 2011, 10:06 PM Reply Like
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    Since the earnings report Nov 15 through December 23 this year 5,536,300 shares have been purchased at prices between .27 to .39 after dividing the OTCBB reported volume by 2 to eliminate the double count.

    I think (except for those who may have bought at .27-..30 planning to flip the shares from .35 to .40) most of those shares will be held until prices reach .45 at a minimum for those who'll take a 50% or less return. I also think most of these shares purchased have a lot bigger target than 50% or less.

    It is also likely the many of the shares purchased were by long-term holders (including the Axionistas) who wanted to average down. In my case I increased my AXPW holdings by 50% in my largest account over the above period to get my average cost down to .60 in that account, the other smaller AXPW account is still averaged at $1.00.
    23 Dec 2011, 11:08 PM Reply Like
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    I think one of the hardest investment lessons to take to heart is to forget where you bought a stock. In a perfect world it shouldn't matter in each day's sell decision. To quote a phrase that seems to be finally dwindling in "athlete speak" ... "It is what it is."

    In a perfect world, it's all about where you think it's going, how long it will take to get there, and whether you have better uses for the money ... be they personal or investment choices.

    I sold some stuff this month that I "kinda like" for both gains and losses for something I "really like" ... AXPW at these prices.

    Really hoping I'm right!

    I'm like the cartoons with the little angel and devil on each shoulder w.r.t AXPW ... Baby Buffet is saying "Buy when there's blood in the streets" and Baby Gartman is saying never EVER EVER average down.

    http://bit.ly/rGLbNF
    24 Dec 2011, 10:18 AM Reply Like
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    Thanks for the comment WT. Actually I was buying at .37 and .34 because I thought the price was to low and I could make a profit. Your comment was still useful to me to keep in mind.
    24 Dec 2011, 10:55 AM Reply Like
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    I am just wondering if all these terms that we say or use has a clear definition. or someone has a right to define it.

    1. For example, when AXPW hit 1. 26 this year and started declining, 1.0 0.9 0.8 0.7 0.6........I did not buy. when it got to 0.5 range I thought it was near bottom so I bought some. I bought some more at 0.37 0.34 0.29. At each purchse I thought it was bottem. Is this considerd average down? I mean as a result of these purchases, price has been averaged down definitely but I did not use 'average down' as a tactic or strategy.

    2. I hate when stock analyst use 'short term' 'mid term' 'long term' things.
    Gee..how short is short, how long is long...
    It shoul be like 1-2years term, 3-5 years term, more than 5years...
    Maybe they want to avoid criticisim from wrong time-fram prediction. I do not think any body would follow my suggestion. So now I am saying this " TSLA is a good mid term investment" I mean 30yrs...................

    Just a Joke!!

    Merry Christmas!
    24 Dec 2011, 11:24 AM Reply Like
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    It was a very funny joke!

    I always hate people who use short-term, mid-term and long-term because some of them mean weeks, months and years, while others mean years, decades and centuries.
    24 Dec 2011, 11:54 AM Reply Like
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    Just want to mention that my initial purchase was back in early 2009 at above 1.0 and of course still holding it.
    24 Dec 2011, 01:03 PM Reply Like
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    Happy Christmas to all at the concentrator. I have just been reading thru the various different comments and questions and it is so obvious that Johns steady hand is on the tiller. Do we as a group appreciate how much this knowledge and experience would cost us in the outside world . This in not intended to undervalue the other contributors, but I for one , am so glad that he is involved Thank you Maya , John ,Futurist ,Bang HTL, And all the others for a very enjoyable year.
    Gerry
    24 Dec 2011, 05:04 AM Reply Like
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    Gerry W: Happy holidays to you and yours too!

    Next year will be even more enjoyable here!

    Welcome to the concentrator!

    HardToLove
    24 Dec 2011, 08:18 AM Reply Like
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    Comment from an article regarding timeframe to get Maxwell's ultracapacitors qualified for start-stop:

    "Getting ultracapacitor technology into turbines, buses and cars is a long process. Maxwell calculates that getting its product qualified by PSA Peugeot Citroen, the second biggest carmaker in Europe, took about four years. (Subsequently qualifications by other automakers would take less time because they would be able to see the results from PSA Peugeot Citroen, the company estimates. In its third-quarter conference call with analysts the company said it expected another major qualification about 15 months from November 2011.) "


    http://on-msn.com/vfsGIC
    24 Dec 2011, 09:21 AM Reply Like
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    Among my blessings I count at this time of year are the knowledge and comradery I receive from this blog. Thank you all. Merry Christmas.
    24 Dec 2011, 09:34 AM Reply Like
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    John,
    Do you expect any new Axion patents in the manufacturing process, or it is (in your opinion) all fairly obvious use of existing patents and Industrial Engineering technologies?

    How do the patents currently applied for and granted break down w.r.t manufacturing v. "Chemistry?"

    Anticipating one day manufacturing in Europe, is our patent protection equally strong in US and Europe?

    Are there applied for patents we might reasonably expect to be granted in 2012 that might offer a slight boost to the stock?
    24 Dec 2011, 10:37 AM Reply Like
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    Thinking of Europe sales somehow got me to thinking about Canada, so I checked in with my friend Google.

    No idea what the rules are there, and how they might be changing, or the size of the market.

    Government recognizes start stop: http://bit.ly/v8dVIr

    Market: http://bit.ly/v2SUh7

    Emissions Standards: http://bit.ly/u0gUfa

    Just scratched the surface ...
    24 Dec 2011, 10:48 AM Reply Like
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    On your first link, Transport Canada lists 3 different kinds of idle start-stop, one of which is "A larger starter motor and improved lead-calcium battery system."

    What the heck is a lead-calcium battery? Is that a gel battery as described in wikipedia (http://bit.ly/tUvn03)?

    Btw, I was thinking that the VRLA section of wikipedia should be updated to include a 3rd type in addition to AGM and gel: lead-carbon. I would then describe 2 types of lead-carbon: 1) those that use carbon additives to the negative electrode and 2) the replacement of the negative electrode with a carbon electrode( ie: the Axion PbC).

    I've also been thinking that Axion could use it's own page on Wikipedia since other battery companies such as Exide and Powergenix have theirs. I communicated with Len Hall at Allen Caron about this but have since been too caught up in work and Christmas to act on it.

    If and when I do this I'll need some assistance from the Axionistas. I also wouldn't be posting anything about Axion the company without the approval of Allen Caron.

    D
    24 Dec 2011, 11:27 AM Reply Like
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    I suspect the author was confused by periodic table nomenclature and assumed PbC meant lead-calcium (which would be PbCa) instead of lead carbon. Chemistry is a cruel mistress.
    24 Dec 2011, 12:37 PM Reply Like
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    Merry Christmas to all. I appreciate this group greatly. I'll try to keep my mouth shut for a few minutes so you can enjoy the magic of the holidays in peace.
    24 Dec 2011, 10:59 AM Reply Like
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    I am going to make a general statement. Politically, many conservatives in the US want to believe that government won't pass more stringent CAFE rules concerning emissions. That is probably a head in the sand approach. It appears that the US has already made the standards and will continue enforcement of these.

    I'm not trying to be political here. Just saying why some might not believe the S/S system will be accepted here as in Europe.

    I believe the actual reason for the slow acceptance here is the fact that the US auto market is 90% automatic transmissions. That technology has been late to the table. The PbC is ready. The transmission is ready. The Government is ready.

    2012 could be a great year for Axion.
    24 Dec 2011, 11:01 AM Reply Like
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    The great thing about idle s/s is that if it was recognized by the US regulators as contributing more to reduced emissions it would allow automakers to cheaply and quickly improve their fuel efficiency ratings.

    Right now the US CAFE standards assume only 1 start/stop event per trip when calculating a vehicles fuel efficiency. I believe in Europe they factor in 1 start/stop event per mile.

    It would be an easy thing for regulators to just change their calculations as automakers implement the inexpensive s/s technology and everyone is a winner.
    24 Dec 2011, 11:32 AM Reply Like
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    Here is a quick summary of all the reported concentrator Axionistas.

    31 different stockholders reported
    3 stockholders with 477,000 conbined shares did not report their average cost.
    Of the 28 who did report the average cost per share is $.75
    Those individuals own 4,850,000 shares of stock.
    The smallest holding reported was 10,000 shares
    The largest ( except for JP) was 500,000 shares
    13 shareholders reported between 100,000 and 499,999 shares.
    Those 13 shareholders hold 4,603 of the shares reported.
    One large shareholder ( above 250,000) has an unbelievable average cost of $.35. Congrats.

    Most large shareholders have been around JPs blogs for quite awhile and are within $.10 of the average pps. This tells me they have been averaging down.

    Many lurkers ( reported shareholders I have never seen post) have smaller holdings although two new people had fairly substantial stakes.

    I'm not sure what all this means. I'm not trying to analyze the meaning. It tells me that we have purchased a lot of the SS and Quercus supply. I am aware of at least 1 Million shares that did not report.
    The discussion about the hidden shareholders will not be answered. Who are they? Has a new mutual fund stepped in lately or are their thousands of shareholders that never have heard of this blog? My theory of shares being accumulated by employees of the firms testing AXPW has nothing behind it but my pet theory.

    Have fun working out your own meanings to this interesting riddle. Hope it helped.

    Merry Christmas to all and to all very good cheer.
    24 Dec 2011, 11:31 AM Reply Like
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    A couple more thoughts about the Shareholder report.

    This exercise started as a means of seeing if indeed strong hands were buying the stock. With 11 long term posters holding at least 4,000,000 shares I have to think that indeed JPs theory is correct.

    At least 5 shareholders have reported that they are way over invested in Axion. They are well aware that this is not the correct way to diversify. Each have reported that they simply believe in the stock and management enough to make this incredible plunge.

    If indeed Axion comes through I will bet that an Axionista gathering will occur somewhere. This blog and group of followers is something unlike I have seen in my 40 years of investing.
    24 Dec 2011, 11:45 AM Reply Like
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    Mayascribe has already scheduled the gathering in Copan for December of next year. With a little luck they'll let us use one of the Mayan Pyramids to eviscerate a bothersome worry wart from Santa Fe.
    24 Dec 2011, 12:02 PM Reply Like
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    oorah.
    24 Dec 2011, 12:44 PM Reply Like
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    Futurist and John. Funny the both of you wrote about where we all could gather. Just this week, I was thinking about extending an invitation to all who participate in these Concentrators.

    In the next Concentrator I will give access to details about Mayascribe's 12/21/12 Ending Of The World Fiesta!

    All Axionistas are invited!
    24 Dec 2011, 12:48 PM Reply Like
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    Maybe we are all the "eve" of seeing our portfolios "leap." As next year is a leap year.

    This group of investors is something to behold. No where on the planet exists as it exists here. I am humbled to be the "chauffeur" for all of you fabulous people.

    This way to the next Concentrator:

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    24 Dec 2011, 12:45 PM Reply Like
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    You're a treasure Maya. Whoda thunk that a simple first person report on a stockholders meeting would grow a pair of legs and assume a life of its own?
    24 Dec 2011, 12:48 PM Reply Like
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    Never before have I had such an excellent driver!
    24 Dec 2011, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  •  
    Can you imagine if I would have reported that first shareholders' meeting I attended...in the fourth person?

    I only have so good of a third eye.

    Thanks, buddy!
    27 Dec 2011, 12:57 AM Reply Like
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