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Trade stocks by day, and at night am writing a historical epic about the ancient Mayan civilization. "Maya: Spirits Of The Jaguar" is a sweeping saga set in the ancient and magical Mayan landscape where a wronged family struggles against prophecy, power, treachery and forbidden love,... More
  • Axion Power Concentrator 37: Beginning Dec. 24, 2011 185 comments
    Dec 24, 2011 12:29 PM
     

    Today we bring a terrific article written by Futurist. Please note that there are some font and margin issues that did not translate perfectly from Futurist's document file, probably due to some quirk in Seeking Alpha's software. This non-computer geek tried unsuccessfully to fix the minor problem.



    Axion Power International

     

    Production Capability Analysis

    December 21, 2012

    by Futurist

    an Axionista

     

    The PbC battery. What is it?

    Axion Power produces negative electrodes made from finely ground carbon material that are placed in an Absorbed Glass Matt battery (AGM). Its a simple procedure. Instead of the normal lead-based negative electrode being placed in the battery, the manufactures put in the Axion carbon negative electrode. A very simple process. The resulting product is far from simple. An AGM battery turns into a asymmetrical battery capacitor.

    What does that mean? Well, it means that the new carbon based lead acid battery (PbC) now lasts 5 to 10 times longer than other lead acid technology; it accepts a charge quicker, deploys it faster, and overall, it only costs twice as much. A perfect battery for heavy charging and discharging over a long life at a small cost.

    This PbC battery is patent protected. Who wants it?

    Norfolk Southern railroad wants it for use in and all electric rail yard slug. Instead of having a diesel engine slug idling 80% of the day and doing a few trips around the yard, they would rather see the little electric slug chug along when needed, and not spewing the venomous exhaust of a diesel engine in the air when it isn't working.

    Norfolk Southern railway was so enamored by the PbC that they have engineered a hybrid locomotive long haul engine. This engine sits between a couple of diesel engines. When the train goes downhill the PbC batteries on the hybrid engine accept the regenerative braking of the train. The batteries then help power the train uphill, resulting in diesel engine fuel savings. The entire concept is explained in detail on the Norfolk Southern website in their report on the future of Norfolk Southern Railroad.

    BMW wants it. The white paper study (found on Axion's website under INvestor Relations) is a scientific study showing how the PbC battery outperforms the ordinary AGM battery in a idle elimination stop/start environment. The differences are enormous. Instead of a battery starting to fail after a few months, as with an AGM battery, the PbC simply keeps working for 5 years or more.

    Any company (plants, universities, military bases, data centers) with a large energy back-up system could use this product. Look at data centers for example. Their need for back-up storage is great. But what if the back-up storage device could put a little energy back into the grid when the grid needs it? Would that be cool? What if the grid would pay you to do that? Wouldn't that be neat? Of course. And that is what Axion, Viridity, and PJM have developed. A PowerCube of PbC batteries that make money for the owner while doing its boring storage job. Pretty neat stuff.

    One Giant market for any energy storage device is the utility companies. This market is expected to be a 200 Billion dollar market in the next decade. If the ability of the PbC can match the needs of the utilities as far as performance and price, then Axion won't be a micro-cap any longer. However, the bulk of that market is destined for less expensive solutions. Different, cheaper kinds of battery solutions than the PbC. It is always nice to keep in mind however, that even a tiny bit of a 200 billion dollar market can be something valuable to a company like Axion.

     

    So how many of these devices can Axion produce? Good question

    As I understand it, the Axion negative electrode line can make about 300 battery units of negative electrodes--it takes about 30 electrodes for one PbC battery-- every day if they ran 3 shifts per day, right now. But right now they only have one modern carbon negative line. It is called the gen 2 line. There is the older Gen 1 line in existence but it doesn't produce many units per day. The next line will be labeled the Gen2a or the Gen3 line. We would expect some improvements in productivity or quality control over any new line. The new lines should be able to be ordered and installed in 4 months time. That is fast, but a slower time frame than what has been reported by the company. So far production equipment time lines have never exceeded estimates. No reason to not be conservative with these figures.

    If the negative electrodes can be produced at 300 units per day that equals 75,000 PbCs per year.

    The Axion battery plant currently can produce 250,000 AGM batteries (or PbCs) per year. They can also produce another 500,000 regular flooded batteries per year. This production schedule presumes three shifts but does not account for working weekends or holidays.

    What then is in store for little Axion Power in 2012? A small micro cap business with a big product. Plenty.

    A railroad yard slug engine takes about 1,000 PbCs to operate. A Long Haul railway engine takes about 1,600 PbCs to operate. A 1 MW PowerCube takes about 1,000 PbCs to operate. An automobile takes 1 PbC to operate a stop/start system.

    Conservatively, Norfolk Southern will retrofit 10 engines in 2012. I pick this number because there are thousands of rail yard slugs and thousands of over the road locomotives. Making ten test engines is a small number. The need to test in different climates in different rail yards or over different terrain will cause the number to be more than one. Assuming 100s of engines are overhauled each year, I would expect ten to be a minimum conversion number. I won't be surprised to see a larger number since both locomotives should have a quick payback and return to the railway company. As an added benefit the carbon footprint of the railroad goes down with each engine ordered.

    Conservatively, 10 PowerCubes will be purchased and installed for testing and real time use.

    There are thousands of data centers in this country that operate huge power backup systems. Most are lead acid. Many are now using AGMs. These batteries must be replaced every few years. This is an avoidable expense with the PbC.

    A PbC will last 4-5 times longer and only cost twice as much as an AGM. Plus the PbC will payback the owner for the power the system gives back to the grid when the grid calls for it. To suggest that only ten 1MW systems or twenty 500KWh systems will be sold this year is quite conservative.

    If 1/5th of all lead systems have to replace their batteries this year anyway, then finding ten buyers out of thousands availiable should pose little problems. Especially when PJM, and its offshoot Viridity Energy, are able to steer their clients base to Axion's new marketing arm, Rosewater Energy. A pretty simple process.

    It is hard to believe that only OEM testing (as opposed to actual product sales) will continue in 2012 for automotive, but lets say that is so. At least 5,000 PbCs will need to be purchased for just that testing market. Reports so far have BMW, GM, and "multiple OEMs testing the PbC." Ford worked with BMW on the European stop/start testing protocol. Speculation is that this relationship has Ford testing the PbC as well as BMW. This speculation has never been confirmed.

    The GM program is for a mild hybrid application. A very significant market, if the PbC works in that application. It takes a lot more PbCs in a mild hybrid application than a single battery for start/start applications. Suggesting that selling 5,000 PbC batteries this year for fleet testing by the OEMs, is not overly ambitious.

    Therefore, I anticipate 25,000 PbCs to be manufactured and delivered in 2012. At $250 apiece that would mean a gross revenue from PbC alone of $6,250,000. A three fold increase with no large volume order in place.

    A large volume order can come at any time by any of the three companies mentioned above.

     

    Can any other field use the PbC?

    Other uses for the PbC come up all the time. It is a good device for storing the electricity generated from wind or solar. It can absorb these charges, kick them out to the grid or other places, and then accept more charges time after time. For a price only twice that of an AGM battery, a company can get a product that lasts 5 times longer. It would seem that many companies in the renewable energy field might be testing or ordering the PbCs in the very near future.

    Another Axion partner is Envision Solar who is testing using the PbC as a solar powered car charging unit. Although a niche market, who knows where the relationship will lead.

    Oil well rigs use smog creating diesel generators for power. For three years Axion has been talking about this niche industry using the PbC. Rosewater Energy has gone so far as to partner with an Arab company for marketing this product to the Arab oil producers in that area.

    Axion can fill those orders

    Even with the projections made above Axion can produce an additional 50,000 PbCs in the existing plant without spending one dime in additional plant capacity. That would be an additional $12,500,000 in gross revenue.

    I realize that Axion is stating that it will soon need a cash infusion by March 2012. This is very true. Axion would need an order for the PbC battery that would equal at least 40,000 PbCs per quarter to be truly profitable. One can see how this market, and much more is obtainable. But it isn't obtainable now without a significant PowerCube order (100-200 PowerCubes), 100 railroad engines, or a 100,000 unit OEM automotive order. But Axion does not need to raise any additional funds for plant expansion unless it has a very large order it cannot fulfill. And that would be a very large order. Axion could add 9 more Gen 3 lines to its present facility within a 4 month time frame (albeit at a cost of 20 Million or so). That would bring production capability for the negative electrodes somewhere in the 750,000 battery unit per year area or more.

    The revamping of the current flooded lead acid battery lines into AGM lines will allow Axion to make about 750,000 PbCs per year, in house. Those kind of numbers will not be happening in 2012 . But with another year of testing in new fields and if the current testing proves the value of the product, then large numbers can be projected for 2013.

    Overall my projections are rosy but, I hope, not so unrealistic as to be disingenuous. The point of this article is to prove that production capacity far outweighs demand at Axion today. Capital expenditures should be low for awhile. If the Board of directors does authorize a major expenditure in capital spending you should see that as a reason to buy Axion Stock. Because the need for more negative electrode production is only due to a large order coming in. And that my friends is an opening of the floodgates for Axion. A step into the big time arena and a chance to be a truly disruptive technology in the 21st century.


    ####

    On behalf of the Axion Concentrator, I greatly appreciate the time and energy Futurist put into this wonderful article.

Back To Mayascribe's Instablog HomePage »

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Comments (185)
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  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Last TWO comments in the previous Concentrator from Futurist:

     

    Here is a quick summary of all the reported concentrator Axionistas.

     

    31 different stockholders reported
    3 stockholders with 477,000 conbined shares did not report their average cost.
    Of the 28 who did report the average cost per share is $.75
    Those individuals own 4,850,000 shares of stock.
    The smallest holding reported was 10,000 shares
    The largest ( except for JP) was 500,000 shares
    13 shareholders reported between 100,000 and 499,999 shares.
    Those 13 shareholders hold 4,603 of the shares reported.
    One large shareholder ( above 250,000) has an unbelievable average cost of $.35. Congrats.

     

    Most large shareholders have been around JPs blogs for quite awhile and are within $.10 of the average pps. This tells me they have been averaging down.

     

    Many lurkers ( reported shareholders I have never seen post) have smaller holdings although two new people had fairly substantial stakes.

     

    I'm not sure what all this means. I'm not trying to analyze the meaning. It tells me that we have purchased a lot of the SS and Quercus supply. I am aware of at least 1 Million shares that did not report.
    The discussion about the hidden shareholders will not be answered. Who are they? Has a new mutual fund stepped in lately or are their thousands of shareholders that never have heard of this blog? My theory of shares being accumulated by employees of the firms testing AXPW has nothing behind it but my pet theory.

     

    Have fun working out your own meanings to this interesting riddle. Hope it helped.

     

    Merry Christmas to all and to all very good cheer.

     

    ####

     

    A couple more thoughts about the Shareholder report.

     

    This exercise started as a means of seeing if indeed strong hands were buying the stock. With 11 long term posters holding at least 4,000,000 shares I have to think that indeed JPs theory is correct.

     

    At least 5 shareholders have reported that they are way over invested in Axion. They are well aware that this is not the correct way to diversify. Each have reported that they simply believe in the stock and management enough to make this incredible plunge.

     

    If indeed Axion comes through I will bet that an Axionista gathering will occur somewhere. This blog and group of followers is something unlike I have seen in my 40 years of investing.
    24 Dec 2011, 12:35 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    A company couldn't spend enough money to develop a stockholder base like the one that's developing in Axion. I've certainly never seen anything that even comes close.

     

    FWIW the cumulative comment count is now 5,890, compared to 3,811 on Thanksgiving day.
    24 Dec 2011, 12:54 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Futurist: I feel negligent in not participating in your survey. However, as I wrote in the previous Concentrator my friends and family can account for nearly 400,000 shares. Pretty easy to figure out who holds the bulk of those spoken for shares.

     

    24 Dec 2011, 12:55 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    You and the ones you have put on the precipice were included in my (I know of another 1 Million unreported) count. Thanks for reporting however.
    24 Dec 2011, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    Futurist, I would think that the reported holdings would easily indicate we could assume the axionistas own at least 8,500,000 which would be 10%. It would not be beyond reason to think we hold 20% of the total shares. Awesome!!
    24 Dec 2011, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    My guess would be closer to 32 million for the active commenters and faithful lurkers, but that guess and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
    24 Dec 2011, 02:38 PM Reply Like
  • Ricknplano
    , contributor
    Comments (318) | Send Message
     
    I am having some quality T-shirts made that say AXIONISTAS - We Got the Power! on the front. I am not sure about the back. Maybe PbC in large letters, or, Axion Power International. Suggestons welcome. Part of me thinks it is silly, but another part of me says I want one of those. :-) I would hope some folks working at Axion would want one as well.

     

    Please let me know if you want one (and size).
    24 Dec 2011, 01:31 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    I want 2! XL, in case they shrink (or I grow)! :-))

     

    We'll all have to mull over something for the back and have "click vote" down the road.

     

    Heck, with enough clicks (and total volume) maybe a couple different batches.

     

    HardToLove
    24 Dec 2011, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I'll bet you could call Allen & Caron and get permission to use the logo in your design.
    24 Dec 2011, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    How about the Axion Power logo below the words "ask me about..."
    24 Dec 2011, 05:31 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    Rick,

     

    You need to be cute about this. Instead of putting we've got the Power, you should put "We Got the Power2!" where the two is superscripted (i.e. Power cubed!) :-)
    24 Dec 2011, 11:13 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    Oh, and I need one on size medium.
    24 Dec 2011, 11:14 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I think the superscript might need to be a 3 if we want cubed.
    24 Dec 2011, 11:31 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    Please give LabTech a break. He lives in his own two dimensional world :)
    25 Dec 2011, 06:54 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    T-Shirt Design Got me to think about Slogans and Trademarks

     

    Got an idea ... but here's the data so far

     

    Trademarks > Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS)
    http://1.usa.gov/sOVpyX

     

    See also http://1.usa.gov/tGIHKr

     

    Not sure why this one was "abandoned/dead;"

     

    Word Mark AXION POWER CUBE WWW.AXIONPOWER.COM
    Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Rechargeable electric batteries; Renewable battery system to provide backup power
    Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
    Design Search Code 26.01.21 - Circles that are totally or partially shaded.
    26.01.31 - Circles - five or more; Five or more circles
    26.17.03 - Dotted line(s); Lines, dotted
    26.17.13 - Letters or words underlined and/or overlined by one or more strokes or lines; Overlined words or letters; Underlined words or letters
    26.19.04 - Cubes (geometric)
    Serial Number 77590294
    Filing Date October 10, 2008
    Current Filing Basis 1B
    Original Filing Basis 1B
    Owner (APPLICANT) Axion Power International, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE 3601 Clover Lane New Castle PENNSYLVANIA 16105
    Attorney of Record Maurice U. Cahn
    Description of Mark The color(s) blue, green, burnt orange, gray, and white is/are claimed as a feature of the mark. The mark consists of a pinwheel of alternating green, blue, and burnt orange dots to the left of the words Axion Power in blue overlying the word Cube in gray framed by a stylized outline of a rectangular gray cubewith burnt orange shading including http://bit.ly/nG6x1f in white .
    Type of Mark TRADEMARK
    Register PRINCIPAL
    Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
    Abandonment Date July 21, 2009

     

    Serial Number Reg. Number Word Mark Check Status Live/Dead
    1 85479865 POWERCUBE TARR LIVE
    2 85316107 POWERCUBE TARR LIVE
    3 85184738 3985654 POWERCUBE TARR LIVE
    4 79045671 POWERCUBE TARR DEAD
    5 77928278 POWERCUBE TARR LIVE
    6 77574020 UNIVERSAL POWERCUBE TARR LIVE
    7 77670286 POWERCUBE TARR LIVE
    8 75668575 POWER CUBE TARR DEAD
    9 75413762 POWERCUBE TARR DEAD
    10 75267704 2150767 POWERCUBE TARR DEAD
    11 74664063 POWERCUBE TARR DEAD
    12 74389500 1817835 HD-PAK TARR DEAD
    13 73584191 1419839 POWER PROCESSOR TARR DEAD
    14 73554441 1393889 TRANSNUBBER TARR DEAD
    15 73554439 1393069 ICECUBE TARR DEAD
    16 73288292 POWER PROCESSOR TARR DEAD
    17 72415772 0981886 CIRKITBLOCK TARR DEAD
    18 72274770 0851827 POWERCUBE TARR DEAD

     

    Word Mark POWERCUBE
    Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Integrated circuit module
    Standard Characters Claimed
    Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
    Serial Number 85479865
    Filing Date November 23, 2011
    Current Filing Basis 1B
    Original Filing Basis 1B
    Owner (APPLICANT) SBE Inc. CORPORATION VERMONT 81 Parker Road Barre VERMONT 05641
    Type of Mark TRADEMARK
    Register PRINCIPAL
    Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

     

    Word Mark POWERCUBE
    Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Batteries for lighting; Electric warning light systems; Electric warning lights; Electronic device to charge and secure tablet PCs; Emergency warning lights; Flashing and steady safety lights; Flashing safety lights; Portable LED safety lighting devices for personal use for safety purposes; Power supplies for lights, sirens and public address systems; Safety equipment, namely, beacon lights
    IC 011. US 013 021 023 031 034. G & S: Flashing strobe light apparatus

     

    Standard Characters Claimed
    Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
    Serial Number 85316107
    Filing Date May 9, 2011
    Current Filing Basis 1B
    Original Filing Basis 1B
    Published for Opposition October 11, 2011
    Owner (APPLICANT) Original Power, Inc. CORPORATION COLORADO 3400 Corporate Way Duluth GEORGIA 30096
    Attorney of Record Susan B. Schneider
    Type of Mark TRADEMARK
    Register PRINCIPAL
    Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

     

    Word Mark POWERCUBE
    Goods and Services IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: Educational publications, namely, educational learning cards, flash cards, activity cards, workbooks, textbooks, activity books, story books, puzzle books, printed puzzles, teacher guides, manuals, posters and educational booklets in the field of science, math, social studies, or language arts academic disciplines for grades K and up. FIRST USE: 20100426. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20101122
    Standard Characters Claimed
    Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
    Serial Number 85184738
    Filing Date November 24, 2010
    Current Filing Basis 1A
    Original Filing Basis 1A
    Published for Opposition April 12, 2011
    Registration Number 3985654
    Registration Date June 28, 2011
    Owner (REGISTRANT) DynaStudy, Inc. CORPORATION TEXAS P.O. Box 1767 League City TEXAS 77574
    Type of Mark TRADEMARK
    Register

     

    Word Mark POWERCUBE
    Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: adsorbent cartridges for use in atmospheric contaminant scrubber systems used in breathing devices
    IC 011. US 013 021 023 031 034. G & S: adsorbent cartridges for use in atmospheric contaminant scrubber systems used in safety shelters and submarines

     

    Standard Characters Claimed
    Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
    Serial Number 77928278
    Filing Date February 4, 2010
    Current Filing Basis 1B
    Original Filing Basis 1B
    Published for Opposition September 21, 2010
    Owner (APPLICANT) Micropore, Inc. CORPORATION DELAWARE 350F Pencader Drive Newark DELAWARE 19702
    Attorney of Record Debra S. Serota
    Type of Mark TRADEMARK
    Register PRINCIPAL
    Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

     

    Word Mark POWERCUBE
    Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: high efficiency electric transformers with built-in performance monitors
    Standard Characters Claimed
    Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
    Serial Number 77670286
    Filing Date February 13, 2009
    Current Filing Basis 1B
    Original Filing Basis 1B
    Published for Opposition July 26, 2011
    Owner (APPLICANT) Power Distribution, Inc. CORPORATION VIRGINIA 4200 Oakleys Ct. Richmond VIRGINIA 23223
    Attorney of Record Thomas J. Moore
    Type of Mark TRADEMARK
    Register PRINCIPAL
    Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
    25 Dec 2011, 09:42 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    On the other hand, note this:
    http://bit.ly/t5dEZj

     

    Utility Grid Connected Power

     

    Grid connected power refers to short-term storage for utility-scale energy producers. Axion's principal focus is short-term storage for renewable energy such as wind and solar power.

     

    The rapid recharge and deep discharge capacity of our PbC® battery are well suited for intermittent power sources like wind and solar. When coupled with our ability to deliver longer cycle lives with minimal maintenance, we believe grid connected systems based on our PbC Technology™ will be able to offer a greater total number of useful cycles lives. If battery cost per charge/discharge cycle is low enough, peak shaving and grid buffering for traditional utilities may also be cost effective.

     

    Axion has also developed the PowerCubeTM. The PowerCubeTM is a highly mobile energy storage system that can be configured to deliver up to 1 MW of power for 30 minutes or 100 KW of power for 10 hours.

     

    Not sure if the Capitalized C makes a difference or not, the search engine seems to capitalize everything :-(

     

    At least PbC is registered, and PowerCube is "Pending."
    25 Dec 2011, 09:45 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Trademark law is monstrously complex and applications are regularly rejected for stepping on a similar name. The one that surprised me was the issuance of a trademark for PbC - which represents the atomic symbol for lead (Pb) and the atomic symbol for carbon (C). My guess is that Axion will have to be pretty vigilant in its enforcement efforts if it wants that trademark to survive.
    25 Dec 2011, 09:53 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    Probably, like me, he encountered a Möbius strip long ago and became so fascinated with it the he forgot about dimensions 3 - 4 (or even 2 - 4?).

     

    http://bit.ly/sy4eug

     

    :-))

     

    HardToLove
    26 Dec 2011, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    My father-in-law has always been fascinated with the Mobius Strip. I don't know if anybody else has considered the possibility, but if you really want to turn your brain into a pretzel imagine a plastic or metal extrusion with a square cross-section. Now bend it into a ring and give it a quarter twist in either direction and weld the two ends together.

     

    I think you end up with a single surface.
    26 Dec 2011, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    I knew there was something wrong when I wrote that late last night. Duh, 3 not 2!
    26 Dec 2011, 09:26 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    What color is the sky in my world? Oh wait, two dimensions...I don't have a sky! :-P
    26 Dec 2011, 09:27 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    Actually my problem is that I'm used to fighting on the land and sea and so when I went into outerspace I forgot about the third dimension...well, me and...Khan! :-)
    26 Dec 2011, 09:32 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    I am still LOL about your comment. How many times I wish I could take back what my fingers have typed.
    26 Dec 2011, 09:54 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I said I would shut up but I can't. Conversation at times in our Concentrators are all that keep me from losing my mind as I am stuck caring for my 92 year old bed-ridden and wheelchair bound mother alone in a house with only two dogs and a cat for company. I get out for a few hours a week on a Saturday when a caretaker comes in for 7-8 hours and a little time mid-week if a neighbor watches her while I spend a little time with friends.

     

    A close family member lived in the house until last week when she unexpectedly passed away while pet and house-sitting for one of her children. Losing her company made the house pretty isolated. I attended a beautiful memorial service for her yesterday surrounded by her friends, family members and former professional colleges.

     

    I wish I could contribute to the technical side of our conversations but I don't have the knowledge. Thankfully we have Silliconhillbilly's and DRrich's and others brains for that as well as JP's encyclopedic knowledge of the PbC. I'm a former businessman, manufacturing, ecommerce, major account and government sales and marketing pro, and organizational development guy.

     

    Along that line HTL and I have agreed to band together and organize the questions for the next conference call. We will be posting an update and some tools we can all use after the holidays to put together a well coordinated, focused group effort.

     

    It was a huge pity that the question and answer session in the last conference call was blown by the conference call contractor. A pox on their houses. The questions we had prepared and the answers TG would have given would have helped the stock tremendously. We have to let investor relations know, although I am certain they will be ultra-careful in the next CC, not to allow another blown question and answer session next time.
    24 Dec 2011, 01:34 PM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    Bang, HTL,
    Outstanding contribution. Are these questions to be presented to Axion in advance so that TG has the opportunity to address some of them in his general comments prior to Q&A? Or is it better to fire them real time to avoid more standardized responses and perhaps glean additional nuggets of information in a spontaneous response?
    24 Dec 2011, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    TG's very aware of us and will certainly read them prior to the conference call. He knows of us and our collective efforts. I intend to ask Mayascribe to post a permalink to the organization tool we will be using in the header of future Concentrators with Mayascribe's concurrence.

     

    Finding and reviewing the questions we will be asking will be easy for TG and investor relations. There will be plenty of advice on how to avoid standardized or "yes-no" answers in the question summary. All Concentrator members will have the opportunity to post their important questions in an organized, but open fashion. I expect JP will be very helpful to us in telling us how to get the most information from the questions we ask.
    24 Dec 2011, 02:17 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    Bang,
    First I want to say that you never need to shut up around here. Your comments are always thought provoking even though we honorably disagree on a few points,
    If this concentrator is a link to reality for you I will gladly do my part and read your musings.
    Sorry to hear about your Family issues. Respite for the caring is as important as rest for sick. Please don't be proud and not use resources at your disposal. Most areas have a respite care organization that is there for you. Use them. If you don't who will?

     

    Please enjoy the Holidays as much as possible.
    24 Dec 2011, 02:47 PM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (130) | Send Message
     
    Looking forward to it. Thanks!
    24 Dec 2011, 02:51 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4778) | Send Message
     
    I, for one, look forward to your posts, Bang and if they afford you a bit of respite all to the good.
    24 Dec 2011, 05:01 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the great suggestion Futurist. I'll look into the respite care organizations. Constant demand for days 24/7 can wear you down.
    24 Dec 2011, 06:32 PM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    Rick, It would be a great idea to offer them when we have the public ceremony for the roll out of one of Axion's new customers. The picture on the back would be determined by the new application, Norfolk Southern 999, BMW, Powercube, etc. If several axionistas could attend with shirts, it would help us identify each other.
    24 Dec 2011, 01:44 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    I rarely wear T-Shirts. Usually at the request of the Love of my life while we attend some charity cause. ( I look great in breast cancer pink BTW). But , I would get one of these. Perhaps the tag line could be "We Have The (PbC) Power. Some such thing where the PbC is smaller or less conspicuous. Just a thought. Love the idea of pictures on the back. Why not a BMW 3 series, A PowerCube, and a railway engine. Since all three will be successful just put them on now. That way we can wear them to 3 ribbon cuttings.
    24 Dec 2011, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    Good thought. That sparked me to think of a "pie" divvied up with a symbol of an application segment. That would include yet-unrealized ones, like from Rosewater.

     

    And to attract more attention, "cartoonish" images - the little engine that could, a car similar to one from the animated "Cars", something related to the electrical grid (or maybe alt-energy?), residential, ...

     

    HardToLove
    24 Dec 2011, 02:20 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I keep thinking about that old song "I've got the Power" by Snap. Link here: http://bit.ly/vZQ0MI
    24 Dec 2011, 02:29 PM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Video clip

     

    Roll out of NS999 Sep28, 2009 Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, Congressman Bill Shuster attending, ENS batteries in it.

     

    http://bit.ly/rI7uod

     

    This failed and then they contacted AXPW........
    24 Dec 2011, 05:09 PM Reply Like
  • Poul Brandt
    , contributor
    Comments (254) | Send Message
     
    Great link. I did not know that the NS999 project was partly finaced by the government.
    25 Dec 2011, 09:19 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The big reason NS is being so quiet and circumspect in its work with Axion is that the NS 999 was hugely embarrassing. They build the locomotive with Federal grant money using top of the line AGM batteries from Enersys. They held a very high-profile public roll-out ceremony on September 28, 2009 and followed up with glowing press releases on how much work the switcher could do and how clean it was.

     

    Unfortunately the NS 999 blew out its batteries in less than a month because top of the line AGM simply couldn't handle the recuperative braking loads. What began as a green triumph quickly morphed into a PR catastrophe. By November 2009, the NS employee magazine was spinning the story as follows:

     

    "We think there’s a lot of opportunity for a road locomotive,” Thelen said. “We’ve just got to figure out how to develop an energy management system that allows us to take maximum advantage of the kinetic energy.”

     

    NS is evaluating NS 999 at Rose Yard to gauge how it performs in weather. “NS 999 is our mobile battery lab at this point,” said Barbee, who totes around thick books on hybrid and battery technology. “It will move our energy models ahead by light years.”

     

    Advances in battery technology will be the primary driver for widespread industry use of electric locomotives, he added. NS currently is eying the use of lithium ion and nickel-based rechargeable batteries, as well as improved lead-acid batteries."

     

    Two years later NS is ready to give it a second go with the PbC.

     

    Mark Twain once observed "The cat, having sat upon a hot stove lid, will not sit upon a hot stove lid again. But he won't sit upon a cold stove lid, either." NS is not being as cautious as a once burned cat, but it is being very careful and thorough, which is why all testing is being triple confirmed by NS, Axion and Penn State.
    25 Dec 2011, 10:09 AM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    A little more datailed info about Enersys batteries originally uesed for NS 999

     

    http://bit.ly/uYBkC8
    25 Dec 2011, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    The 31-PC2150S is a great battery and very expensive (street price $350-400). I had 8 of these in my last vehicle and they performed very well.

     

    I found Axion (AXPW) while researching the use of ultra-capacitors in conjunction with AGM batteries. Maxwell was looking good to me but I didn't like the idea of adding more electronics and more opportunity for failure (not to mention the capacitor hazard).

     

    What a beautiful thing to have the capacitor built in to the battery itself. A very high tech design in a low tech component. If I could order one today, I would very much like the PbC negative electrode placed in this AGM battery...
    26 Dec 2011, 11:16 AM Reply Like
  • dogday1
    , contributor
    Comments (56) | Send Message
     
    Am I developing the Stockholm syndrome ? Was I kidnapped by JP ?and now synpathising and empathising with my kidnapper. What else could explain why I am sitting at a computer on Christmas eve night and enjoying myself .
    Bang my thoughts are with you.
    HAPPY CHRISTMAS ONE AND ALL
    24 Dec 2011, 06:21 PM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    dogday1

     

    I am having a great time reading missed comments on this concentrator, a lot of fun actually !! Merry Christmas !!
    24 Dec 2011, 06:28 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    As a point of reference for the future, here is a link to the google doc HTL and I used to organize questions for the last conference call. http://bit.ly/v6BemY Maya, take note of the link and consider referencing it somewhere as a footnote in the headers.

     

    It serves as a good reference tool for all of us because it contains a list of everything that concerned us on November 15th, 2011. I compiled the list of questions from the Concentrator comments and HTL organized the list into TOPICS which is how I expect we will build the list of questions for the next CC.

     

    Yes, Dogday1 and Pianomanshi, its Christmas Eve and here I sit babbling nonsense also, but I'm a happy little idiot! Merry Christmas! Thanks to all above for their kind comments and suggestions regarding my personal situation.

     

    What would I like for Christmas? A list of the potential prospects for Axion, a telephone and Axion's permission to melt that sucker on their behalf on straight commission. Just me and Futurist with a little bet between us on who gets the first order. I know I would have my hands full trying to win that bet.
    24 Dec 2011, 07:30 PM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Anyone still holding CHHP?

     

    I have no idea what to do with my small holdings(about 100 shares)
    I can buy AXPW 3k if I sell these + My portfolio has too many companies in it.

     

    "While it appeared that the reorganized C&D would continue to operate as a public company, it announced in October that its principal stockholder would buy all remaining shares for cash at a price of $9.75 per share during the fourth quarter. Accordingly, the company is no longer of interest to me" - John Petersen -

     

    Does John's cemment mean I better sell before year end?

     

    I have high expectations for AXPW next year but as for CHHP, I have no idea........

     

    Thanks.
    24 Dec 2011, 09:10 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >pianomanshl ... Yes. In for a penny, in for a pound. If you want to take less than the offer ... then sell, otherwise you'll be taken out for $9.75. I'm going to take a 20% loss and that is a shame. Fair value for the stock is $12+ but with a 65% shareholder with seats on the BOD ... well ... such is life. I want every penny I can get and unless they strike up a manufacturing contract (at fair value) with Axion I'll harbor less than goodwill and peace to their scrap of this earth.
    24 Dec 2011, 09:22 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    I sold my CHHP for $9.60 and put it into Axion. The 2% I gave up
    ( difference between $9.60 and $9.75)should be more than made up with AXPW. However so far that theory has backfired. But I still believe the move was right even though the timing was off.
    25 Dec 2011, 07:03 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Fascinating video of a lead acid manufacturing factory showing all the key steps from casting lead plates, pasting, etc to finished product:: http://bit.ly/rOafnf
    24 Dec 2011, 09:54 PM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the video. Interesting. I found East Penn manufacturing co., Inc.

     

    http://bit.ly/twpnkz

     

    Looks more automated + recycling facilities
    24 Dec 2011, 10:16 PM Reply Like
  • Poul Brandt
    , contributor
    Comments (254) | Send Message
     
    Thank you for the videos. Started looking at Youtube and found this old one (2009) from Axion Power about Axion Power, which for me was very illuminating.
    25 Dec 2011, 09:45 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4778) | Send Message
     
    Has anyone read the full Sandia comparative report on grid power storage alternatives? Been Christmas and pre-school grandchildren birthday shopping, wrapping, etc, I haven't found the time to delve into Sandia's life cycle cost data in the depth I would like. I'm wondering whether system cost estimates presented in Sandia's report include environmental conditioning costs in operation and maintenance as well as power costs for charge/discharge cycles since the performance of the various battery chemistries varies with temperature (or so I understand). The report does state clearly that disposal costs at end of cycle life are NOT considered.
    24 Dec 2011, 10:46 PM Reply Like
  • amishelvis
    , contributor
    Comments (143) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Futerist,,
    That info is very interesting,,,still lots of question marks. One thing I noticed while at the annual meeting in June,, and that was, there seemed to be some serious commercial money there. I spoke with 4 people,, besides employees and boardmembers, and two were professionals. Next year I may try to work the crowd some,,might be nice to hand out questionairs there..? if allowed.
    Happy Holidays to all. 12-24 3pm
    25 Dec 2011, 03:21 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    Merry Christmas & Happy New Year ... and thanks to all for making this a great concentrator..You have truly made it the best.

     

    p.s. Bangwhiz I commend you for taking care of your family, I am a nurse so I know how difficult that can be. Read & post all you want on this concentrator, I enjoy reading it. Thanks for organizing the google docs. Great idea.
    25 Dec 2011, 04:55 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    OT – I did some digging and found weekly stock price data for my first experience in 1991-1993 with a major supply and demand imbalance. I've written an Instablog to summarize what would be a very long story.

     

    http://bit.ly/uzNPG2
    25 Dec 2011, 07:52 AM Reply Like
  • jveal
    , contributor
    Comments (644) | Send Message
     
    It's Christmas morning and JP has two new articles on the internet. He lists one above about supply and demand imbalance. Here is a link to one about Grid-Scale energy storage.
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    John, Thanks for your constant roll out of info.

     

    Merry Christmas to everyone. We'll be leaving in a few minutes for our Christmas worship service.
    25 Dec 2011, 08:16 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Holiday weekends are great times to publish material that's a bit more weighty because it gives readers more time to digest and reflect. Besides, with kids all grown and grandkids on another continent, there isn't much to do on weekends and holidays except contemplate my many blessings with a grateful heart.
    25 Dec 2011, 09:06 AM Reply Like
  • Ricknplano
    , contributor
    Comments (318) | Send Message
     
    Merry Christmas, everyone. Bang, I lost my father last year. The last few months were very trying. I had help from hospice near the end. Many churches have caring committees that will help as well. Reach out and I think you will find that there are people and organizations that understand how physically and emotionally difficult 24/7 care can be, and will offer to help in some way.
    25 Dec 2011, 09:59 AM Reply Like
  • Ricknplano
    , contributor
    Comments (318) | Send Message
     
    Maybe I am the last to know, but I was surprised to find three videos on YouTube about Axion.

     

    http://bit.ly/v5WBdB
    http://bit.ly/tiDmDC
    http://bit.ly/vrLg4p

     

    These are nice introductions for newbies, expecially the 9 minute long one.
    25 Dec 2011, 10:44 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The first two videos were filmed in connection with a recent SAE article about Axion and the PbC. I'm not positive when the third video was filmed but my guess would be that it was filmed at the 11/12/2008 stockholders meeting. It's a bit dated, but it will give you a pretty good idea of the advances that have been made over the last three years.
    25 Dec 2011, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1959) | Send Message
     
    Happy holidays all! I love the t-shirts I will take one.

     

    off the cuff T-shirt idea...

     

    "AXIONISTA
    I've been PowerCube'd
    25 Dec 2011, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I will take a tee shirt XL. I like "We've got the Power" or "I've got the Power". How about a lightning bolt somewhere? The PbC is a power battery.

     

    Speaking of promotion why don't we put together our own website? There are plenty of free or cheap website services as well as related add-ons. I ran an ecommerce website I designed and managed selling over a million bucks a year. Sitting around a lot anyway. Have to think about that one and what the purpose would be. SA has higher visibility on the web (Google Pagerank), but we could put links to it in the Axion Concentrator header.
    25 Dec 2011, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >bangwhiz ... What's next? House slippers shaped like a battery? Pot-Holders with a Li-on battery, a stylized Tesla Model-S or a VOLT and a warning "Don't Get Burned"? Could add railroad engineers caps sporting the NS horse atop a battery.

     

    Product offering could be entertaining.
    25 Dec 2011, 12:00 PM Reply Like
  • Ricknplano
    , contributor
    Comments (318) | Send Message
     
    I like the way you think :-)
    25 Dec 2011, 12:10 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I think we ought to sell PbC's :<D
    25 Dec 2011, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I've always liked the idea of a Tesla Roadster Transformer named Suboptimus Prime.
    25 Dec 2011, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1778) | Send Message
     
    I'll take one of each! :-)
    26 Dec 2011, 09:42 PM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    I did not know Wikipedia article on Start-Stop System mentions PbC in it.

     

    "Concerns" section has PbC in red(why in red...I do not know)
    It also mention about current AGM losing ability after one year.

     

    http://bit.ly/th9Jzf
    25 Dec 2011, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >pianomanshl ... The Wiki entry "PbC" is in red because there is no entry listing for it or "Lead Carbon Battery", "Carbon Electrodes", "Axion Power Intl." (although there is an entry for axion, a hypothetical particle) or anything what-so-ever to do with our favorite battery technology. Strange, isn't it.

     

    NO ONE has written anything the Wiki consuming public can find out about PbC battery technology. There is no shortage of any other battery technology articles or attributions. Even in the general catagory of "Battery (electricity)" .... Zilch. Seems Axion Power International, Inc. could use a publicist.

     

    Now, there is a homework assignment for the Concentrator. A shot at immortality and boosting the bottom line.

     

    First, update the general entry "Battery (electricity)".
    Second, a detailed history of PbC (which is difficult because the links I have to Russian servers don't work anymore ... maybe an Axion/Penn State library).
    Third, a write up of Axion, the company.
    25 Dec 2011, 01:38 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    I wrote that off the cuff a couple weeks ago and mentioned in the last concentrator that I think wikipedia needs to be updated with some description of the PbC and Axion Power itself.

     

    I contacted Len Hall at Allen Caron and he approved of the idea but asked that I review everything with him so he can review it with Axion.

     

    I've been too busy with Christmas shopping, travel, work to get around to it.

     

    D
    26 Dec 2011, 06:44 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1959) | Send Message
     
    What about just using Axion's existing Technology page about the PbC as the intro for the wikipedia page. Just take out the first person and update the 2000 cycle to the 100,000 cycle, as well as any other slight modifications and it should be a very good starting point description for the PbC battery, after all they did invent it. It seems like they actually may need to update some things in it to include comparisons to VRLA/AGM batteries as well. Could use some lines from the White Paper for that, but here is a link to it.

     

    http://bit.ly/w2ZUmX
    26 Dec 2011, 06:58 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >jakurtz ... That was my idea for the "Lead-Carbon Battery" entry. This entry should be as historical and generic as possible. Links & attribution should lead to "Axion Power International" entry and a lot more corporate stuff there. Another entry page would lead to something along the lines of what bangwhiz is contemplating. Also, along the way there should be new attributes to Axion's testing of the technology under the individual customers existing pages. Etc., etc.

     

    That was my idea and it looks like that was your thinking also.
    26 Dec 2011, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    jakurtz, DRich: I hate to say this but our starting point might be to look at the A123 Wiki entry. It is very well done and very complete (although a month or two outdated)...

     

    http://bit.ly/vCr9T7
    27 Dec 2011, 01:12 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » jakurtz: But now even the White Paper is outdated. At the Nov. 28 ribbon cutting ceremony, Chuck Trego told me that the PbC is now in the 100s of thousands of light duty cycles.
    27 Dec 2011, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1959) | Send Message
     
    That is nice Tim as a starting point for the Axion Power entry. But the starting point for the "Lead-Carbon Battery" entry or "PbC Battery" entry could start off with the specification from the Technology page of their website like Drich was saying.

     

    Until I read Drich's post it slipped my mind we would need at least two different Wiki pages, one for Axion the company and at least one other for the Lead carbon battery. Maybe one for the PowerCube as well. That would be three different pages.
    27 Dec 2011, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    Actually, I believe the white paper does contain a short discussion of how they tested to 40,000 cycles *with* cranking function, then eliminated cranking function and continued testing another 60,000 cycles out to over 100,000, still with robust results....
    27 Dec 2011, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » 481086: That was June news. What Chuck Trego told me a month ago was three times the number of light duty cycles that the White Paper mentions. And still counting...

     

    That is significant, especially accented for me by my seeing "the smile of accomplishment" on Chuck's face when he told me this fact.
    27 Dec 2011, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    Roger that. Awesome. ;) So when he said "now in the 100s of thousands of light duty cycles", does that mean like 2 or 3 hundred thousand, or only more like ~150,000 something or so?
    27 Dec 2011, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » 481086: 300,000 cycles is the number I heard...then changed to 100s of thousands of cycles. The question for me is how did it go from 100,000 cycles at the June 20 shareholders' conference to over 300,000 on November 28?

     

    The answer has to be that the response time I had heard was 250 milliseconds. A lot of light duty cycles can happen in that frame of time, over time.

     

    But, when I read the TG interview that jlyleluce linked, in that article, he said the response time was, "~ 50 milliseconds." If we do the math, a 250 millisecond response time is a 16 fold improvement over the best out there that we know of, Beacon Power, which has a four second response time.

     

    With TG's info, now it's a five fold increase of response time on top of a 16 fold increase that I had reported after the PowerCube ceremony.

     

    Verification now needed!
    27 Dec 2011, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >Mayascribe ... You need to remember the response time for the battery may not be the same as that of a DC-DC or DC-AC conversion. Response time will depend on the slowest component in the system and there will be other capacitor with their own rise times and transistors that may not open & close in 50 ms and magnetic fields require time to recover from pulse events. Just an FYI. Systems & components vary.
    27 Dec 2011, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Thanks for the clarification, DRich. When a non-battery geek like me sees AC/DC, I'm hearing "Hells Bells" in my head!
    27 Dec 2011, 04:15 PM Reply Like
  • lsd_lsm
    , contributor
    Comments (130) | Send Message
     
    Nice!
    27 Dec 2011, 04:29 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    jakurtz: no disagreement here. I would just like to see the Axion entry complete and up-to-date before posting leaving little room for unwanted contributions.
    28 Dec 2011, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (368) | Send Message
     
    Ho Ho Hope you all have a merry xmas and a happy proftable new year. Please remember the like button at the top of every concentrator/article.

     

    Bang,

     

    My prayers and thoughts are with you brother. Keep typing all you want as I enjoy yours and all the other comments.
    25 Dec 2011, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    Zack's NSC update:

     

    Norfolk initiated adequate cost control measures that bode well for growth targets. The company remains cautious about rising fuel prices and its adverse impacts on the cost structure. As a result, Norfolk is replacing its older and less fuel-efficient locomotives with new ones. We expect the new fuel-efficient locomotives to reduce average fleet age and result in lower maintenance expenses, driving further cost improvement.

     

    http://bit.ly/tUl5Di

     

    see also: http://bit.ly/rZEigq#
    25 Dec 2011, 01:37 PM Reply Like
  • Gerry W
    , contributor
    Comments (59) | Send Message
     
    Hay! Axionistas what is wrong . Somebody say something .I am getting the DT s
    25 Dec 2011, 02:17 PM Reply Like
  • Gerry W
    , contributor
    Comments (59) | Send Message
     
    Sorry folks the last 7 entry's did not show on my screen and I began to panic.
    25 Dec 2011, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Think about this folks: https://sites.google.com

     

    And while you are thinking about it look at this. http://bit.ly/su3RyA

     

    Ignore the coding in the video, I am familiar with and conversant on the coding - look at the finished product.

     

    Ideas welcome. We've got the power - let's use it!!! It also wouldn't bother me to register a domain name and go paid hosting either, particularly if we used google sites for target practice, and then moved a polished website to its own domain.

     

    "Axion Stockholders Group (Committee, Organization, etc). Important that the first word be Axion in the URL and on the home page so site comes up in search results when the word Axion is searched.

     

    To much detail for this point in consideration but if you use dashs in a URL like Axion-Stockholders-Group then you have type all the words and dashes for Google to find it in search results. If you type Axion_Stockholders_Group like this in the URL Google ignores the underlines and sees three separate words. Being clever and wanting search engine visibility you could consider Axion_Stock_Group for a url and Axion as the first word in the site scores high in search engine results.

     

    Then you use Axion as the first word in the site home page headline in large type and score more in search engines. Then you use Axion as the first word in the first paragraph and you pop up even higher in the search engine results. Done correctly with search engine position we could be the second listing after axionpower.com in the search engine results.

     

    Sorry I did this kind of sh** for a living for years, but you get the idea. Its called "search engine positioning" and it is about creating and writing a website for visibility in the search results for search engines like Google, Bing, etc.
    25 Dec 2011, 04:18 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I kind of like the words "Consortium" or "Federation." We want to remain a loose, but focused confederation which is another possible word for the group. However, Group is simple, short and describes us accurately without implying some sort of legal status like org etc.
    25 Dec 2011, 04:58 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I think there are a number of drawbacks to a second location and particularly a dedicated website. These Concentrators have grown organically on a site that most of the users visit regularly. Drawing bodies somewhere else would seem like a challenge.
    25 Dec 2011, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I love a challenge. Consider this also. The Concentrators are 150-200 comments and then disappear. Important info, insights and discoveries disappear. The important links, information and insights can be permanently viewed with the secondary site. It would not be designed as a replacement, it would be a axion concentrator wiki. Hey. lots of work involved and if people shoot it down no skin off my A$$. Its an idea that might help promote Axion and its stock. All publicity is good publicity.
    25 Dec 2011, 05:51 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    JP> Aside from the challenge you need to mull the potential benefits to us as a group since the principal purpose of the site would be to enhance the concentrators, not compete. Past concentrators and a lot of valuable information disappear every time we launch a new concentrator. There's a lot we could do to make Mr. Market more aware of Axion also. Open up your mind to the possibilities. Like links to your important SA articles, important discussions in the past concentrators, etc.
    25 Dec 2011, 06:21 PM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    So it is going to be a relatively simple website that has basic info about Axion, PbC and Axion share holders and then tons of links to important article, video clips, pdf files.......like storage area....right?

     

    1. Sound like a good idea. Is it easy though to categorize those many links and to do updating(adding new links)?

     

    2. It also should include link to this Concentrator and make sure all the comment, discussion should keep going on at current Maya's Concentrator.

     

    3. If someone googles "Axion" or "PbC" and then the title"Axion Power Shareholders Group" comes up on first page, it is going to get attention, I think.

     

    Just my 2 cents.
    25 Dec 2011, 07:39 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Yes Pianomanshi, plus it should eventually be a great place for anyone wanting to do DD on Axion. For instance, it could contain links to the different conference call question lists by quarter, Annual Meeting reports from Concentrator members, Mayascribe's Ribbon Cutting Report, copies of member articles like the past two header articles written by Futurist and Jakurtz, links to major Axion articles from JP and others, videos, photos, etc - all in an orderly, logical, easy to navigate site. I would try to separate opinion from fact as much as possible.
    25 Dec 2011, 07:57 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    "3. If someone googles "Axion" or "PbC" and then the title"Axion Power Shareholders Group" comes up on first page, it is going to get attention, I think."

     

    Damn right it is. I like that word "Shareholders" also. Think about that great link to the recent NS presentation. That was a jewel. If a potential investor visited the site and read all the info we've gathered I would think they might want to buy some shares at least as a marker. At 30 cents a 1000 shares are peanuts, but a lot of peanuts can add up.

     

    Think of it as a "Reader's Digest" of all the past and current Concentrators.
    25 Dec 2011, 08:00 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    And 10Qs!

     

    HardToLove
    27 Dec 2011, 01:18 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Take a gander and let me know your reaction. Didn't play with grapics, photos, layout, or anything else so don't expect a wow factor. Its a draft of an idea with no trimmings. Opinions? http://bit.ly/tTLMFk
    25 Dec 2011, 05:49 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (4778) | Send Message
     
    Bang, I just visited your link and noticed right away a small bluish-colored rectangle containing "google.com" just to left of the URL Holding one's cursor over the rectangle launches a small pop-up window containing the text, "verified by: Google, inc"
    25 Dec 2011, 06:35 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    The site is hosted by Google Sites which allows you to create free websites as either intranets or public internet sites. Sharing can be anyone who has a link or public. I switched it to public to see if I got a google alert email on the key word Axion in the site name and content.
    25 Dec 2011, 06:42 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    In the disclaimer, I would be partial to "informal association" over "loose confederation".

     

    Maybe picky, but ...

     

    I like the concept, but, like JP, worry about "fragmentation".

     

    ISTM that the all the things that point to activities here at SA, with various ordered list available, might be the most powerful aspect.

     

    General: chronological with article and concentrator links, occasional *important* (i.e. very informative) links directly to comments regardless of "home" container. Repetition is avoided. Other orderings: main topics, business segments, "milestone completions", ...

     

    Storage, ...

     

    Transportation, ...

     

    Alt energy, ...

     

    etc.,

     

    Ease maintenance chores by have a few very active participants maintain different sections and back-up folks for when real life gets in the way of our fantasy.

     

    I think the strength of organizing the site along these lines is that folks that have specific interests would find the site more useful and, I presume, a structure that raises ranking could also be applied.

     

    All that considered, I think a "forum" there would not be needed. New participants could come right here and participate.

     

    Counter: I would *love* to have a "message board" format with *true* threading and a much better search capability than SA has been able to provided thus far. If the forum could have the sub-categories *and* an "everything from any forum" category, it might be absolutely "perfecto"!

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    26 Dec 2011, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    I use http://bit.ly/v3B75z to keep track of a lot of info on various stocks. Different book for each stock. My Axion Power book has 78 "pages" which are centered on various topics, though some of the topics are just "time based" things that don't fall in one of my topics (at the time.)

     

    This is similar to the idea of "tags" you see on my content sites.

     

    The Concentrators have a wealth of info, but finding "old" material on a sub-topic is not easy and results in folks repeatedly asking questions that have already been answered.

     

    What we need is a better "Content Management System"

     

    http://bit.ly/tYBjpt

     

    Big topic these days ... lots of work having been done on them.
    26 Dec 2011, 02:25 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    A tool that interests me but I haven't really dug into yet is a software product called the Personal Brain. It seems to be a relational database that lets you tie ideas together and go running down detail trails to your heart's delight. A dear friend swears by it. I don't have an opinion yet but I've been thinking about using it to organize my research files.
    26 Dec 2011, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Nice application, but I like the structure and navigation of a website. Most of the content insert functions I saw can be embedded in a website easily. Not knocking the application, but Google Sites makes web design and content easy for non technical users, and if you are technically experienced in website design it just allows you more capability on Google Sites than the novice.

     

    Each Google Site can have up to 100MB of storage free and you are allowed multiple sites. You can link from one site to another, so as your information grows you can increase the total content available.

     

    A dedicated forum with limited access for conversation about the structure and content in the website separate from the website itself might be a good use of a forum. That way Concentrator members could contribute to the development of the site without cluttering up the actual Concentrator comment sections.
    26 Dec 2011, 06:01 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I'm going to run a little experiment. I'm going to make the draft public and see if google spiders it and sends me a google alert to my email on the key word "Axion".
    25 Dec 2011, 06:04 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    Bang,
    I'm never going to rain on anybody's parade. This is way over my head from a technical POV.

     

    I haven't come up with any ideas ,yet, as to how this is better or what could happen with it. Tools are tools. If we have a tool that can be used then good. If we have a tool that is rusting away in the garage, then that is bad. My point is that it takes a good webhost to make a great website. I know your volunteering and that is great.

     

    If I get any ideas one way or the other I will let you know.

     

    Next 5 weeks will be brutal for me. If I get 5 minutes a day for SA it will be time stolen from the boss at work.
    Later.
    25 Dec 2011, 09:58 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Futurist. It is not intended to be "better" - done correctly it is intended to enhance and strengthen. The tech side is duck soup for me. Good luck at work. It would point to the Concentrators as a forum function.
    25 Dec 2011, 10:12 PM Reply Like
  • Snowboard 2k01
    , contributor
    Comments (133) | Send Message
     
    Rhode Island Public Transit Authority has acquired several "Clean Diesel Electric" Buses. I'm wondering if PCB Batteries are applicable ther.

     

    Previously I have stated I get 26 MPG in the Saturn Vue Hybrid I've been driving in the city for the past Five years. Others may not do as well, for my early driving habits were formed in a 53 Caddy Hearse lacking a functioning brake master cylinder.
    25 Dec 2011, 10:12 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Jesus H ...
    25 Dec 2011, 10:21 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    I like the website, why not leave it up and take suggestions and just see what happens. Also, maybe someone could get some feedback from AXPW management. I think this has potential & would like to see where it goes.

     

    The "Axionista's" obviously control a sizable % of shares now (probably much higher than 10% because I couldn't report my shares because of having to do a bio & upload a picture which I could not do & I imagine others had this problem too) but that sizable influence will change with the new issue of shares.

     

    Send me an email address to abby9780@yahoo.com and I will report my shares. I would really like to be an active participant of the shareholders group.
    26 Dec 2011, 07:18 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I suspect that cooperation from Axion would be hard to get because as soon as they start to cooperate or participate in a website like the one Bang's proposing or Concentrators like this one, they run the risk of being held responsible for the content. I do my best to avoid conversations with Axion for that reason and when we do talk it's generally because I know where deep archive data is that they need to access. That makes our communications pretty one sided. They ask historical questions and I point them to old documents.
    26 Dec 2011, 08:17 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I think we have the judgement needed to not create anything Axion would object to. The site isn't intended to "hype" Axion, but collect accurate information from many sources (including Axion itself) and firmly separate fact from opinion.
    26 Dec 2011, 06:07 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    I enjoy the concentrators because they are "live" and flow according to the current events from the news, SA articles or questions raised from comments. It's a beautiful thing.

     

    My suggestion for an "unofficial" Axion web site would be to point back to the resource that brought us along to where we are today - the information rich archives of SA. An index of annotated links that provides guidance to the information that has already been posted.

     

    Start with an "About" section with notes and links that tell the Axion story and the product.

     

    A "Articles" section with notes and links to all the articles and press releases that have been written about Axion.

     

    A "Blog" section with direct links to all 37+ concentrators with a summary of each. Although it might be difficult to do, it would help a great deal when it comes to non-encyclopedic minds such as mine. It could be as simple as a keyword list.

     

    A categorized "Links" section for quick reference to all the other useful information that relates to Axion and the markets it serves.

     

    It is the journey that is important to me. Let’s just create a map marking out the territory and let each person follow their own path.

     

    Just a thought…
    26 Dec 2011, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Tim> That's exactly what I had in mind. It took me forever to scroll back to Maya's report from the Annual Meeting. The site would point back to the current Concentrator for the latest news and discussion. There would be no forum on the site as I envision it. It would be intended as a repository of important and useful information about Axion and its progress from the Axion Concentrators and other web documents.

     

    DRich has encouraged me to work on a PbC wiki entry and I said I didn't think I could do it justice. His comment to me was it was mostly pulling together existing information so I said I would poke around on it and see what I could do. I would vet it with Axion directly before publishing it.
    26 Dec 2011, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    Bang> I think the wiki entry is a fantastic idea and am a little surprised to see that it has not already been created. However, it would be quite the ambitious project to take on by ones self. I would offer to help but my communications skills are not my strong suit...
    26 Dec 2011, 01:05 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >Tim Enright ... There in lies the beauty of the Wiki. It is meant to be a community effort. It is also a hindrance because those with agenda or ideological axes to grind are welcome to contribute but it is out there with the faith that fact will win-out over fiction. wtblanchard drew my attention to the Wikipedia and was amazed that with all the enthusiasm shown here the first research tool of the masses had no entry whatsoever.
    26 Dec 2011, 01:49 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    My assumption is that wikipedia entries would typically be the responsibility of the PR firm (ie: Allen Caron).

     

    Not that I'm blaming Allen Caron - knowing how stingy Axion is, they probably are paying Allen Caron only for the bare minimum since Axion's potential customers are waaaay beyond the wikipedia stage of research.

     

    D
    26 Dec 2011, 08:19 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Bang: To more easily access past Concentrators (Instablogs), you can tap "Mayascribe." Then tap the "Instablog" tab under the avatar (the picture of me). Then, in the upper right hand corner of the page that comes up, you can tap, "Full Index Of Posts." There you can read all the titles of every Concentrator (as well as other Instas I wrote.)

     

    Perhaps, and from here forward, I could expand and edit into the Concentrator title to include what the theme of that Concentrator was, after I fire up a new Concentrator, by using key words or phrases.

     

    The problem with this is that my view of what was/is the theme, may not be agreed with everyone else. I don't want to hurt feelings if I misjudged, or left some one out. I also do not want to place myself in a position of having to evaluate what was the top comment or two in any Concentrator.

     

    But, this method could help assist those who want to do back checking on a specific subject.

     

    Another problem is that I have no idea how much info I could put into a title. The number of characters may have a limit.
    26 Dec 2011, 09:17 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    And, BW, keep in mind that a right-click on what's show in the full index of posts will allow you to "Copy Link Location" (or something similar), which can then be pasted.

     

    That makes inclusion of a full "index" to concentrators relatively quick as you don't have to open each 'blog first.

     

    You probably knew this, but JIC ...

     

    HardToLove
    27 Dec 2011, 12:17 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    DRich: I really like the format of the Wiki. It is replacing Google for my starting point when I explore something new.

     

    At first I thought we might be duplicating efforts between the Wiki entry and Bang's project. Actually, we are duplicating efforts in a big way but I think each has a different purpose.

     

    I see the Wiki providing "nutshell" or "just the facts" information about the company and the product whereas Bang's project could include "everything".

     

    I am really liking Bangs the idea of a "simple" web page that is an index for all the nuggets that are discovered by the people of this forum. A single place to go to find that link that you followed but did not bookmark...
    27 Dec 2011, 12:58 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >Tim Enright ... The Wiki is for just facts. Even recent accomplishments aren't to be posted (maybe on the Axion specific entry) because documentation is first priority. That makes what bangwhiz is doing pertinent & useful but to a different purpose & audience.
    27 Dec 2011, 01:59 PM Reply Like
  • magounsq
    , contributor
    Comments (956) | Send Message
     
    The ongoing risks...
    A123 says batteries for Fisker may have potential safety issue

     

    http://bo.st/saCR92

     

    The potential opportunities...
    Electric Grid in Texas Faces Multiple Challenges

     

    http://bit.ly/tMO8Z9

     

    Curious source name...
    26 Dec 2011, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1345) | Send Message
     
    "Electric Grid in Texas Faces Multiple Challenges"

     

    Thanks for the post. Texas will be an interesting story to watch...
    26 Dec 2011, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Take a day and a half off this Concentrator and I learn we are now going to have Axionistas t-shirts (put in an order for 2 XXL,XTs for me), and also a new website? And then...Wikipedia?

     

    Fantastic. I think there should be a place to "park" or archive pertinent Axion related information as the story of AXPW unfolds. Hopefully, down the road someday, the chapters of unfolding information will come at us with increasing alacrity, such that we will likely need several people working concurrently to choose (or rate) what's "goes in," or not. We may already be at that stage now.

     

    I believe it was JP who wrote that the Concentrator is growing organically (like a May mushroom!). I figure this Concentrator takes between 1.5 to as much as 2.5 hours per day, just to read all the comments and links that we all provide, as well as doing some research on my own. A labor of love this has become. With the acceleration of ideas, contacts developed, calls being made, and the numbers of active commenters increasing, too, I expect the daily routine investment of time to only continue to increase. Just scanning the comments this morning, knowing that there are lots of links I need to read, I figure I'm 2 to 3 hours behind.

     

    As John's Axion Concentrator charts show, what we have going on here is catapulting, becoming a new and unique, riff raff-free forum where level-headed shareholders gather and discuss (and have a little fun, too) a vast trove of assembled information.

     

    A fine and quite possibly developing instance of this occurred to me two days ago, when an owner of NYC cable TV station...and a radio station, left a message on my I-Phone after he had merely glanced over a couple of Concentrator links I had sent him. He's very much into all forms of renewable ideas and concepts, and fully understands the future role batteries will play. To say the message he left, that the inflection of his voice was "gushy-amazed," would be an understatement. We will be talking more later this week.

     

    There have been lots of instances similar coming from many of us.

     

    Could be some legal issues about the t-shirts. If this group wants me to, I can either write or call Thomas to discuss this great idea...from a legal standpoint. Knowing Tom's sense of humor a little bit, I'm near positive there would be some shared chortles.
    26 Dec 2011, 12:56 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    "Fantastic. I think there should be a place to "park" or archive pertinent Axion related information as the story of AXPW unfolds."

     

    That's the central theme I have in mind for the website. There is no such facility to my knowledge within SA unless one wades through 37 Concentrators alone - never mind all the information links. We have the power to do it. Why not do it?

     

    Tim Enright laid out a pretty good initial website structure. Contributions like his can speed the process and other peoples ideas can be adapted quickly also. Google Sites let anyone build a website with little technical skills needed. Adding additional editors is as easy as a mouse click. I'll let everyone weigh in on their thoughts over the next week (or two if necessary) so the concept can be developed by all.

     

    I did play with the website draft slightly. It is here: http://bit.ly/tTLMFk

     

    Bear in mind that would you see is unlike how a finished website would look - for that think something from a graphics viewpoint like Rosewater's site. That ugly disclaimer sidebar would be visible but moved and not half the web page. Bear in mind I created a website selling over a million bucks a year so it will not be trashy, overblown, or unattractive for damn sure. The other key issue is easy, intuitive navigation. There would be no hype period and all the trolls could do is read - there would be no sockpuppets or omyomys to deal with.

     

    The website would spell out how we came into being, who we are, and our collective interests. See below:

     

    "We are a large unified group of individual investors in Axion Power International, Inc. focused on developing and sharing information regarding the potential risk and rewards in stock ownership and the future growth and success of Axion Power International, Inc. Axion's stock symbol is AXPW.OB on the Nasdaq Exchange.

     

    This website is a direct outgrowth of a phenomenal event in investing history when one person attended a Axion Power International Annual Shareholders Meeting and provided a first hand report via an Instablog on Seekingalpha.com. The resulting comments to that article resulted in drawing together a large group of individuals investors in Axion Power for the common purpose of gathering and exchanging information and taking collective action when helpful regarding the progress of commercializing the patented lead carbon battery developed by Axion."

     

    Remember. it is all a draft.
    26 Dec 2011, 03:16 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1959) | Send Message
     
    Very nice BW. I like your "who we are" synopsis as well. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting.
    26 Dec 2011, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2699) | Send Message
     
    Maya posted: "I think there should be a place to "park" or archive pertinent Axion related information as the story of AXPW unfolds."

     

    Hear hear!

     

    I've thought of an archive that could have all the serious tech comments concentrated in it. A place where interested battery geek types could check out the sum of the tech comments without having to scan thru tens of thousands of comments looking for the "geeky nuggets".

     

    I can't even find my previous Concentrator comments without substantial effort! Plus, I foolishly haven't kept an archive on my computer. But each comment by itself didn't seem all that important at the time.

     

    So, a separate blog-like place on some server would seem to have real utility, in my view.
    27 Dec 2011, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1959) | Send Message
     
    Some speak about large investing firms needing to get a hold of this stock to push it to the sky. I don't know...look at the growth this concentrator has undergone over six months and the curve is parabolic and accelerating. I feel like we are embarking on a new wave of investing style and we will potentially see concentrators pop-up like this one on different companies more and more. Forget the funds and investing houses, the people will take care of what is and is not a good investment, and the investment houses will have to play catch up.
    26 Dec 2011, 01:37 PM Reply Like
  • Gerry W
    , contributor
    Comments (59) | Send Message
     
    We have all heard of dream makers and dream catchers, may I suggest ,THE DREAM STORAGE DEVICE! For the back of a t-shirt.
    The PbC battery is a dream come true ,but Axion shares are now the store of many dreams of Axionistas.
    26 Dec 2011, 03:19 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    To simplify conversation about the website I have proposed I have created an instablog here: http://bit.ly/t3SSwL

     

    Please contribute opinions, ideas, and thoughts with your comments in the instablog I have created for this purpose. I don't want to clutter up the Concentrator comment section with discussion about the website I have proposed.
    26 Dec 2011, 06:35 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    I have copied comments from several members from this concentrator about the potential website to the Instablog body to keep existing suggestions in one place.
    26 Dec 2011, 06:59 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1959) | Send Message
     
    I think we do want to be careful stepping on any toes at Axion by creating a website. It is rather uncharted waters creating a website dedicated to a specific public company that would potentially contain information they can not monitor or approve of, yet it may be construed to be part of Axion Power itself. Speaking in a forum or blog is one thing, putting up information that could potentially be interpreted as coming from Axion Power itself might have some legal repercussions that fall back on them even if there were a disclaimer that Axion is not a part of it. I really don't know, just some stuff to consider, others with more experience should chime in as well.

     

    Wikipedia is a different story and that would be a great start spreading the word of PbC.
    26 Dec 2011, 07:19 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Consider the crap on Brand X. I think Axion would welcome a well designed website that allowed its investors to share information on the company's progress. The website would make it perfectly clear it is not connected to Axion Power in any context and that it is created and maintained by individual investors in Axion Power and not Axion.

     

    Have you seen the content on Marketwatch, or a lot of the articles on SA such as JP's.? Where content appears on the web doesn't matter, whether it is an individual article or a website with a collection of information, articles and links like I have proposed.

     

    I'm sure that if Axion objected to anything on the site they would let us know it. The site would have an email link where anyone could contact the Webmaster (me for the moment) for any reason, including corrections, etc.

     

    Keep in mind that this website is going to be pretty invisible except to people with a link or visitors to the Axion Concentrators because it is a Google Sites website and not an independent url like axionshareholders.com. The chances of it appearing in search engine listings would be around page 2000 in the results - if even in the results at all.
    26 Dec 2011, 07:35 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    If there as a large bold disclaimer, at the top and repeated near the bottom, it should carry no more hazard than message boards or instablogs generally dedicated to a single company.

     

    And the net is rife with them.

     

    MHO,
    HardToLove
    27 Dec 2011, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1959) | Send Message
     
    Cool. I am glad I have it wrong. I will try to contribute as well.
    27 Dec 2011, 01:05 PM Reply Like
  • james222
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    Bang
    I think its a great idea..you got my vote
    26 Dec 2011, 07:25 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    Nice info lifted from a post on Brand X from Indelco on carbon additives to the negative plate of lead acid batteries:
    http://bit.ly/vqbVSr
    26 Dec 2011, 07:28 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    Ok,
    I don't know where the article came from. I don't care. It is the hardest article to read I have seen in a long time. I dont know what it says. I can't read this long technical boring piece of work.

     

    Could someone please write an understandable disertation on whether this is important?

     

    And Bang,
    If you posted that to prove we need a website that is understandable I am now 100% with you.

     

    All joking aside:
    I have pondered the new websight idea. I do not like stopping good ideas just because they have not been tried before.
    I do not like trying ideas that are going to fail due to lack of conviction.
    Bang, if you feel you have a website that will bring value to the community and you feel you have the tenacity to work it for more than a short time, then please, feel free to continue.

     

    Me, Im simply going to order a couple of t-shirts and let you tech-heads go at it.
    26 Dec 2011, 10:15 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    One of the things I found interesting was when I googled a variety of constructions of the words "organized retail investor group" or plays on those words. I came up with nota - zilch - nothing. This is a pioneering group.and it does have power. Think about TG calling us following the blown conference call line.

     

    Anything done with a website will be new in this context. Hell, we're already breaking new ground, we have plans to band together for the next conference call, this group owns a substantial percentage of Axion's common stock and I believe we can assist Axion by simple doing great due diligence and make the results of our due diligence easy for anyone to review. When you think of a website it is generally "what you see is what you get" and you can forget influencing anything.

     

    What I am proposing is an evolving design that grows with our experience. We start out simple with a few key sections and appropriate links in those sections.

     

    For instance, my ecommerce website had its own search engine tacked on the site. It would be easy to have the same facility on our site using a free search engine provided the site by Google that indexes only the site content. That's just the tip of what could be done but I'll quit pitching the idea and the group either likes the idea or it doesn't.

     

    In fact, it may not be hard to create a dedicated google search engine of the previous Axion concentrators by providing a list of links to all of the concentrators. Google eats that kind of task up. Google makes it possible to create your own search engine indexing anything you tell it to index.
    26 Dec 2011, 10:50 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1844) | Send Message
     
    I'm going to suggest something that I've been thinking about for a bit:

     

    With our collective shares, would we have the power to appoint a board member?

     

    It's not that I don't trust Axion's current leadership - I think we all agree that they're doing an awesome job.

     

    I was just thinking that it would be nice to have our own personal representative on the inside to keep us abreast of any new developments.

     

    Gelbaum had a board member, didn't he? So why can't we have someone with the time and inclination elected to the board?

     

    D
    27 Dec 2011, 10:00 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >D. McHattie ... I, for one, don't think the present board is doing anything but a 8-9 (on the 10 point scale). I'm no business person. I think of it as black box voodoo. So I have to wonder why would a group like this want a board member unless we were dissatisfied and wanted to sell out or whatever.
    27 Dec 2011, 10:05 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    There is an immense difference between being able to appoint or elect a director who you trust to look after your interests and electing a director who can or will report back on new developments. The first is relatively simple for a big holder. The second is a felony violation of the Securities Law.

     

    Even though Quercus had the power to appoint Mr. Anthony as a director, Mr. Anthony was bound by the same duties as all other directors to keep non-public information confidential. I know the general public thinks that appointed directors are faithful lapdogs who report the inside skinny back to their masters, but the public is wrong. If we managed to land on a name we thought we'd like to see serve as a director, the first fruits would be a permanent loss of his contributions to the Concentrators.
    27 Dec 2011, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    Google permits restricting search to a site (in this case our url?) with the ":site" (or is it "::site"?) argument. I would think this would be easy to have automatically added to the search box arguments.

     

    But I don't know if we are a "site" or not.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Dec 2011, 12:28 PM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (247) | Send Message
     
    Following is link to recent interview with Tom Granville in "Daily Energy Report" where he explains some PC uses/markets. Lots of info about PJM project.

     

    http://bit.ly/vujsiF
    27 Dec 2011, 05:51 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (247) | Send Message
     
    “A number of (companies) have wanted to see one that is working,” Granville said. “Now we’ve got that. We have a unit that we can literally make stand on its head.”

     

    Sounds positive on the marketing front. Taken from another interview with TG.

     

    http://bit.ly/udKN6o
    27 Dec 2011, 06:21 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the two articles.
    Its good to know that actual dollars were being computed as made from the Cube only 9 days into testing. Can't wait to hear what the figures turn out to be.
    Also happy to see TG give Pennsylvania credit for the grant money that built the PowerCube. Every dollar received gave Axion more time to work with their existing capital structure.
    Score- Pennsylavania 1- DOE- 0
    ( Well to be fair I think the DOE funded the NS contract through Norfolk, but I am still mad at the DOE over the Exide/Axion grant.)
    27 Dec 2011, 07:36 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I have to love you data miners who keep finding these things. A pair of good articles!
    27 Dec 2011, 08:37 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    Two great finds Jlyleluce!

     

    Thanks!

     

    HardToLove
    27 Dec 2011, 12:33 PM Reply Like
  • Gerry W
    , contributor
    Comments (59) | Send Message
     
    The 37 Axion Concentrator Like awards go to
    1. Bang on 11 for his honesty.
    2 .Futurist on 10 for his compassion
    3. Dogday1 on 9 for humour.
    27 Dec 2011, 08:39 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (247) | Send Message
     
    John,
    Going back to the story on the Hawaiian utility in concentrator 35:
    The A123 grid storage battery 2 MW system has 500 kWh of energy, where a 1 MW PC has 500 kWh of energy.
    Am I confused in having thought that Li-on had more energy storage that PbC? Additionally, my assumption is that pricing for these system is based on MW, so having double the kWh per MW would give the PC a significant advantage. Is my thinking correct here, or are there a lot more variables to this?
    thanks
    27 Dec 2011, 08:44 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Energy is nothing more than a function of how many batteries you connect together in a string. Power is a function of how quickly you choose to charge and discharge those batteries.

     

    The lithium-ion system is power rated at 2 MW for 500 kWh of energy, which means it will drain the batteries in 15 minutes.

     

    The PowerCube is currently power rated at 500 kW for 250 kWh of energy, which means it will drain the batteries in a half hour.

     

    Pricing on storage systems generally consists of two components.

     

    Firstly, the Power System consists of inverters, control electronics, climate control and other hardware that manage the batteries. Based on the Sandia system cost estimates I wrote about last week, the cost of a power system for PbC or lithium-ion is basically the same, roughly $400,000 per MW of power.

     

    Secondly, the Storage System consists of the battery strings themselves. Based on the Sandia system cost estimates I wrote about last week, the cost of a Storage System for PbC is about 350,000 per MWh while the cost of a lithium-ion Storage System is about $600,000 per MWh.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    If you scaled the PbC System up to 2 MW, it would cost about the same as a 2 MW lithium-ion system but deliver a half-hour of power instead of 15 minutes of power. In many cases that would be an advantage, but not necessarily in all cases.

     

    These markets are very complex and the things various end-users want their batteries to do vary widely. While there's no question in my mind that the PbC will be a strong competitor, I would not view it as a silver bullet solution.
    27 Dec 2011, 09:07 AM Reply Like
  • jlyleluce
    , contributor
    Comments (247) | Send Message
     
    thanks for your reply
    27 Dec 2011, 09:17 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    It would be nice to kick off the new year with something here on Jan.4....read 3rd paragraph - mentions "secondary battery"

     

    TOYOTA, GM, VW, NISSAN, FORD, HONDA - ETC., TOP LEADERS WILL...
    (Full text of a statement. Contact details below.)
    (BW)(AUTOMOTIVE-WORLD) Toyota, GM, VW, Nissan, Ford, Honda ? etc., Top Leaders Will Disclose Their Strategies at AUTOMOTIVE WORLD Technical Conference!
    Technology Writers/Automotive Writers
    MULTIMEDIA AVAILABLE: http://bit.ly/sDaa8z mmg.cgi?eid=50114879&a...
    TOKYO--(BUSINESS WIRE) - Dec. 27, 2011-- At AUTOMOTIVE WORLD 2012 Technical Conference, world's leading companies such as Toyota, GM, VW, Nissan, Ford, Honda, Daimler, Robert Bosch, etc., will disclose their latest strategies and development situation on the hottest topics. [Jan. 18 - 20, 2012 in Tokyo] Toyota, General Motors, Volkswagen, Nissan, Ford, Honda, Daimler, AUDI, Mazda, Robert Bosch, Denso, Infineon Technologies - all these are the speakers of AUTOMOTIVE WORLD 2012 Technical Conference.33 key persons speaking on the industry's hottest topics such as EV &HEV, Weight Reduction, Next-generation Informatics, the key to grab the emerging markets, etc., AUTOMOTIVE WORLD 2012 Technical Conference sure will gather full attention from the world's automotive industry. (Full Program: http://bit.ly/tA6rba)
    At the Keynote Session, key persons from Toyota, Volkswagen &Ford will speak on "Future Automotive Electronics for Next-generation Vehicles"This would be the first and only opportunity to hear 3 top key persons gather to speak about development of Next-generation vehicles ? Mr Yoshida from Toyota Motors, who is Managing Officer in charge of control technologies and electronics, Mr Krebs from Volkswagen, Executive Vice President and Head of Group E-Traction, and Ms. Gioia from Ford Motor, Director of Global Electrification. Must-attend to grab the industry leaders' strategies on Automotive Electronics, the key technology in the current and future automotive industry.(Details: [CAR-K] Leading Manufacturers Discuss Future Automotive Electronics for Next-generation Vehicles)You can also reach the latest products and technologies showcased at co-held 4th CAR-ELE JAPAN, Asia's leading exhibition for automotive electronics.
    The biggest challenge for every automotive manufacturer - EV &HEV development, will be addressed by the major players, Toyota, Nissan, GM Japan, Honda, Robert Bosch, Nidec - etc. From market outlook and strategies to core technologies of EV development such as Motor, Inverter and Secondary Battery, various approach to the hottest market are available here.
    (Details: http://bit.ly/ue1onU co-held 3rd EV JAPAN (EV &HEV Drive System Technology Expo), the latest models of EV &HEV will be showcased, as well as all kinds of core technologies such as Motors, Inverters, Batteries, Connectors, Chargers, etc.
    A new topic will join the Technical Conference this year, in response to the industry's huge attention - it's Weight Reduction Technologies, which are becoming more and more important with more compact and more fuel-efficient vehicles ruling the market.3 different approaches to weight reduction will be introduced here, Steel Products by Sumitomo Metal Industries, CFRP by Toray Industries and Multimaterial Concepts by AUDI. (Details: [CAR-10] Latest processing and Material Technologies for Automotive Weight Reduction)To explore more materials and technologies for weight reduction, visit 2nd Automotive Weight Reduction Expo also co-held.
    For the full program of AUTOMOTIVE WORLD Technical Conference,visit http://bit.ly/sbpL1e
    Photos/Multimedia Gallery Available:
    http://bit.ly/sDaa8z
    mmg.cgi?eid=50114879&a...
    AUTOMOTIVE WORLD 2012 Show Management
    Reed Exhibitions Japan Ltd.
    TEL: +81-3-3349-8502
    FAX: +81-3-3349-4900
    27 Dec 2011, 09:16 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3431) | Send Message
     
    I believe "secondary battery" merely means "rechargeable battery"...
    27 Dec 2011, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • amishelvis
    , contributor
    Comments (143) | Send Message
     
    That was a nice article.( Daily energy report) It seemed to end abruptly though.
    27 Dec 2011, 10:02 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2240) | Send Message
     
    There was another Axion article about its interconnection to PJM but it is a subscription site and I don't have access. It was in Smart Grid Today, the worldwide daily journal of the modern utility industry:
    http://bit.ly/uuMC8d
    27 Dec 2011, 10:36 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    You can, however, sign up for a two-week free trial. Once your free trial period expires, somebody else could follow suit. Aith a group this size we could probably run the free-trial chicken around in circles for a couple years.

     

    We'd just want to make sure that we didn't have too many people piling on the free-trial bus at once because more than one trial at a time for the group is a waste of potential resources.
    27 Dec 2011, 10:39 AM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Wow, almost year end, 11:30am. volume already over 300,000

     

    Who is selling, who is buying............
    27 Dec 2011, 11:34 AM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    Pianoman, you beat me too it (slowed trying to track too many things at once).

     

    Anyway, I was going to comment that it exceeded (maybe an hour ago?) the 25-day moving average volume I use.

     

    *And* volume has been rising strongly the last week or so with price remaining relatively stable.

     

    All this in a seasonally low-volume period and when (I believe) there is tax-loss generated selling pressure.

     

    I've not posted buy:sell recently or daily short selling, but I believe I'll see an improving trend (by *my* criteria) when I look again. I have been collecting the data.

     

    HardToLove
    27 Dec 2011, 12:44 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    The sell side transactions are generally pretty large and the buy side transactions are more numerous but smaller. My guess that people who bought at $0.57 in December of 2009 and have grown tired of waiting are selling and people who pay closer attention to the company's performance than the market price are buying.

     

    In the last concentrator Futurist reported that a number of the people he'd heard from wanted to increase their positions and were hoping the price would stay low long enough for them to do so.

     

    The important thing to remember is that sellers make themselves irrelevant because once they've sold they can't impact your future. Buyers, on the other hand, are going to be your comrades in arms for a while – hopefully for a long while.
    27 Dec 2011, 11:52 AM Reply Like
  • jpau
    , contributor
    Comments (960) | Send Message
     
    My fear is that they'll be our comrades in arms until 50 cents, 60 tops. Sadly, it would be hard to criticize someone for booking a 66 percent gain, or a double. My horizon is 3-5 years, depending on the breaks - so as long as the story works out, I don't care; but it does muddy the hopes of a price spike in the next few months somewhat.
    27 Dec 2011, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I certainly haven't seen much in the Axion news lately that would get my dauber up if I was a trader. The price has been range-bound for a while now and there's no idea when that range will break. People who are willing to trade up 50% and then flip out generally want to have a very clear idea of when it will happen and how long it will take. There are a ton of stocks that would be far more appealing to me if I was looking for a short-term trade.
    27 Dec 2011, 01:37 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >jpau ... Look for a bumpy ride up to the $2+ range. Good for trading but hard on the long term holding heart.
    27 Dec 2011, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » What an excellent Concentrator...almost a Christmas gift from all of us, to all of us. Please continue on to the next Concentrator:

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    27 Dec 2011, 12:45 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    Question: I read the articles posted by Daily Energy and TG states that the PC at AXPW headquarters is in a 40 ft. trailer (so you can see it) but the actual commercial model will be packed into a 20 ft. model. That makes what we have just a demonstrator and it won't do everything mentioned yet.

     

    When is the 20 ft. model going to be ready for sale and fully functional?
    Could i purchase one today for delivery next week?
    27 Dec 2011, 12:52 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1959) | Send Message
     
    LT The takeaway from that discussion is that they purposely put it in a 40 foot container so customers could walk around inside of it. They could have just as easily put it into a 20' container, but without the benefit of being able to walk through and see how everything works. So...I believe without very much conjecture they can make the 20' model, no problem.

     

    I think putting their demonstration unit in the 40' trailer was a great idea.
    27 Dec 2011, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (5783) | Send Message
     
    i agree the 40' was a great idea, but can you buy an operational one today?
    27 Dec 2011, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » LT: I would think you could order one. But please remember, that the PowerCube is still in an "actionable testing phase" with Viridity/PJM. And the test so far is exceeding expectations.
    27 Dec 2011, 01:33 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Place an order and I'm sure you'll have it in short order. The only difference is racking and layout. The functional components will not change.

     

    The 40' unit is a demonstrator only in the respect that it's laid out to accommodate visitors while performing its function instead of optimizing space while performing its function.
    27 Dec 2011, 01:40 PM Reply Like
  • Mac325
    , contributor
    Comments (21) | Send Message
     
    Hello,

     

    I am a long time lurker/shareholder and first time poster. I would like to thank Mr. Petersen and others for their informative posts about Axion and the battery industry in general.

     

    I would also like to get the forums thoughts on the likelihood that Axion would be acquired at some point.

     

    If JCI or another large manufacturer felt the PbC was destined to be as disruptive of a technology as what we're seeing in the white papers and what is being discussed on this board, why wouldn't they be interested in owning that technology?

     

    We know they're aware of it. Are they waiting for the PbC to be fully validated by the customers first? Or are there reasons why that would not want to own it that I'm missing?

     

    I found this 2007 transcript quote from Mr. Granville suggesting that being acquired was a likely future scenario for the company.

     

    "we may license at some point in time, but certainly I think the battery companies in the future will be looking to acquire Axion."

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    I know a lot of things have changed since 2007, especially with the financial markets, but I would still think it is a very possible outcome.

     

    At what point would a competitor want to step in and at what price would Axion's board be willing to sell?

     

    I'm curious to hear other's thoughts on this topic since its not one I've seen discussed very often on this board. I'm not really looking for speculation about specific companies but more possible business situations that may play out in the future if/when the PbC starts to get some more traction in the market.
    27 Dec 2011, 01:32 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Particularly in industrial technologies companies tend to prefer fully developed businesses that can be fairly valued using conventional financial metrics. Somebody might be willing to come in and buy at distress sale prices, but getting an acquiring company to pay the price I'd find acceptable would be a major challenge.
    27 Dec 2011, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1959) | Send Message
     
    I am sure John will answer this in short order better than myself, but here are my thoughts. Personally, I do see it as a likely scenario when the PbC gets validated commercially. Nobody wants to take the risk right now for the price the board would be willing to accept (500M, maybe double that??). Afterall, this is sort of what Axion and nano-cap companies/ventures are for, they take the risk in developing the technology bringing it to market and validating it, and the larger companies then buy it when it is proven out. Or, they buy it when the tiny company gets into a real financial pinch (what many conjecture Exide was attempting in 2009 by not sharing the grant from the DOE, Exide could have just been trying to keep itself alive too).

     

    I will bet others will add more color and a clearer picture.
    27 Dec 2011, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >Mac325 ... My take on acquisition is that no bidder is going to come forward unless there is a demonstrably profitable company and only then if there is competitive advantage. If Axion is successful with its multi-vendor, multi-site business model a buyout by another battery giant would be difficult and the likely acquirer would be a parts vendor.
    27 Dec 2011, 02:09 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (11197) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Mac325: Welcome to the Axion Concentrator.

     

    M&A's, especially with microcaps that hold the potential of what Axion's future holds, are quite difficult to quantify, as there is no investing model out there to compare what the various applications Axion's batteries can do.

     

    Certainly, with how the stock has been beaten up, AXPW has to be looking as a fantastic opportunity for some major outfit like GE to buy.

     

    The problem is, if the board of directors want something like a 700% return on their initial investment, than GE would likely have to swallow about a 3300% increase from present share price to buy Axion. Maybe JP knows of some insane deal like this to happen. I've never seen it before.

     

    But...I'd take it!

     

    Also want to add that it appears Axion would much more likely do licensing than to outright sell the whole company.
    27 Dec 2011, 01:55 PM Reply Like
  • JohnM121
    , contributor
    Comments (500) | Send Message
     
    An acquisition can also be incremental, with the first step being a share purchase next year to fund operations and growth. For a few million, a large company can get a foot in the door and start the process of keeping other buyers out. Some buyers are more desirable than others. That is a tactical decision for management and the board.
    27 Dec 2011, 02:44 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    Axion went down that road when it partnered with Exide in 2009. Axion's clear expectation was that Exide was going to be Axion's go to partner and Exide was going to put its marketing prowess to work to sell the PbC. It turned out to be more like a big fish inviting a little fish to lunch and Exide's behavior at every turn was less than exemplary. But for the private placement in late 2009, Exide would have been in an enviable position to buy the PbC technology for an ultra-distressed price. Management teams that have escaped the clutches of one grasping over-reaching suitor are generally more cautious going forward.
    27 Dec 2011, 02:48 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    As a shareholder I know that Axion is a Multi- Billion dollar company (at least). It will sell 1/2 of the S/S market ( 16 Billion per year), all of the electric/hybrid train market, most of the small behind the grid UPS stations, and other uses.
    As a buyer I know that Axion sells little, has no OEM contracts, and has no railroad orders, yet.

     

    A company buying Axion is no different than a person who buys its stock. They ask the same questions and deal with the same answers. In this case I see a company like Bosch ( private company which makes S/S transmission systems), East Penn ( a private battery company that has exclusive rights to the ultra battery and long time Axion friend) , or a railroad industrial supplier to be interested in Axion than some giant like GE.

     

    If an OEM automotive order comes through before the next financing round is required then the price goes up. But if someone wants a foot in the door and is already involved with Axion (East Penn and NS) I can see them deciding that paying a premium now is a worthwhile risk.

     

    Would the major shareholders accept $10 per share? Would anyone pay it?

     

    The questions for the ages and not to distant future.
    30 Dec 2011, 09:10 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    I didn't really make my point very well in the last post. If a company wanted to buy Axion it would have to decide how much to pay. But any company wanting to buy Axion would first buy as much as possible on the open market for cheap. Their intention wold be known when they reached the reporting guidelines ( I believe at 9.9% of shares). At that point they have made a statement and all can start working together on whether that percentage or more is what the purchasing company wants. Very complicated but the way I would approach it at these prices. What if they could buy 30% of the company for less than $3 per share. Probably could have been done over the last few months but now? Probably to late.
    The last point I want to make is that Berkshire Hathaway owns a nice position in BYD and Midwest Power.. What a cheap way for that company to make inroads into grid and automotive sectors.

     

    So many possible suitors.
    If you value your portfolio please do not sell your AXPW.
    30 Dec 2011, 09:45 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    As soon as a company acquires 5% of a public company it has to file with the SEC stating the source of funds and purpose of the investment. The purpose of the rule is to prevent a creeping takeover, but it's not something I think we need to worry about for a while anyway.
    30 Dec 2011, 11:05 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the specific explanation.
    5% is only 4 Million shares. I will be interested if we ever find out one large buyer has accumulated a sizable block during this downturn.

     

    I can report that 8 Axionistas have purchased at least 300,000 more shares at these low prices ( reported so far) in order to keep averaging down.
    31 Dec 2011, 07:33 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    JP, have you ever heard of a situation where some of a small company's much bigger customers buy 4.9% stakes to reduce the float and help support the stock price for a later financing?

     

    If there were actual legal agreements w.r.t. holding periods (or price levels attained) to do this, would that be material information that the small company would have to report?

     

    If Futurist's 5%=4million number is right, and say they got it at $.33/share, that would be a mere $1.33 million ... not much for a big company. Probably not earning much interest of that kind of "petty cash" anyway :-)

     

    Wonder if there are any private investors or companies that might have or be interested in a 4.9% stake ...

     

    Anyone with a good estimate of what the float is now?
    31 Dec 2011, 11:40 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I've never heard of an arrangement like the one you describe and suspect that the existence of contracts might well put the signatories in the position where they'd be deemed a "group acting in concert" which would mean ownership would have to be determined at the group level rather than the individual level. I suppose it could happen, but think it would be darned hard to negotiate because big buyers generally prefer to buy stock directly from an issuer so that their investment impacts the issuer's balance sheet.

     

    Float is a legal definition that means all shares not held by officers, directors and 10% holders. That figure is currently in the 70 million share range. If you reduce the float for shares held by the old guard, their friends and family, Blackrock and Manatuck Hill, the number of shares in the hands of the general public is probably more like 35 to 40 million. My bet is that the concentrators collectively hold something on the order of 32 million shares.
    31 Dec 2011, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (19394) | Send Message
     
    Using the 17M+ traded this last quarter, the 35M-40M float suggests 42%+-48%+ of float traded this quarter (or half those percentages if all were double-counts).

     

    That's not a bad number for liquidity.

     

    HardToLove
    31 Dec 2011, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (30629) | Send Message
     
    I did a calculation that the current turnover interval is about 270 days. A turnover period of 90 to 150 days is generally considered quite liquid, but 270 days isn't bad at all.
    31 Dec 2011, 04:23 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >Futurist ... Gee, I can't really get a feel whether your bullish, bearish or just depressed and wishing things were different. To this idea that Axion could be a take-out, I think that is beyond the pale. There are 2 things that any acquirer would need.

     

    First, is proof that there is a real product there ... like, maybe a design win or some one that actually puts this little miracle into commercial use. Testing is necessary, required and just dandy but not the same as end users putting to work to earn/save money.

     

    Second, scale. Axion has the internal capacity to be profitable as is but an acquirer would ask; Is this product needed in sufficient numbers to make a profitable business? A buyer won't know that until the first criteria is met or is convinced Axion did a poor job marketing. Is there an existing manufacturer willing to make it ... if not the only logical acquirer would be an existing battery company or deep pockets with a determination to start one. I don't see that happening.

     

    These events are years away from a buy-out. The only reason I could see anyone wanting Axion right now would be for the patent portfolio. By the time Axion is an attractive target we should have made a little money from the basis of today's price. Now I can see Axion failing but from macro problems screwing with finance and general business activity coming from those genius bankers not stopping their digging a hole so large that it can't by filled in with money and creating a sinkhole we all fall into. But that means we all have bigger worries than Axion failing.
    30 Dec 2011, 10:25 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >Futurist ... I did forget to mention the No. 1 reason a buy-out is out of the question and that is that ~70% of shares are held by the founding core investors. I don't think they're of a mind to sell ... go private would be more reasonable ... if you need something to worry about. John once mentioned that he had a selling share price of $14.00 US (if I recall correctly) in mind. I could be dragged into that.
    30 Dec 2011, 10:52 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    DR,
    Wasn't trying to be a bull or bear. Simply trying to craft an explanation of the thought processes of a buy out contender and where they might come from.

     

    Rambling thoughts might be a better explanation of my musings.
    31 Dec 2011, 07:30 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4819) | Send Message
     
    >Futurist ... OK, I do it all the time.
    31 Dec 2011, 09:17 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    I know. But you do it with so much flair and panache.
    My wish for the new year is to be a little better at written communication.

     

    I tend to send a bad vibe over text, e-mail, and blog writings. Yet if I write a letter or article it seems to breathe differently. Basically, I'm awful at shorthand.
    1 Jan 2012, 08:03 PM Reply Like
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