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Trade stocks by day, and at night am writing a historical epic about the ancient Mayan civilization. "Maya: Spirits Of The Jaguar" is a sweeping saga set in the ancient and magical Mayan landscape where a wronged family struggles against prophecy, power, treachery and forbidden love,... More
  • Axion Power Concentrator 61: Beginning Feb. 3, 2012, Axion Power Direct Shelf Offering Part Four 183 comments
    Feb 3, 2012 4:06 PM
    HAPPY SUPERBOWL WEEKEND!

    Axion Power Announces Registered Direct Common Stock Offering of up to $10.0 million

    NEW CASTLE, Pa., Feb. 1 , 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Axion Power International, Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: AXPW) ("Axion" or "the Company"), the developer of advanced lead­carbon PbC® batteries and energy storage systems, today announced that it has entered into definitive agreements to sell an aggregate of not more than 28,571,429 shares of common stock, par value $0.0001 per share (the "Shares"), at a price per share of $0.35 for gross proceeds up to $10 million, before deducting placement agents' fees and estimated offering expenses. The share price for this transaction was pre-determined by calculating a 10% discount to market using the Company's volume weighted average price for the trailing 40 day period (VWAP).

    (Logo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20100119/AXIONLOGO)

    The Shares are being offered directly by Axion pursuant to an effective shelf registration statement previously filed with, and declared effective by, the Securities and Exchange Commission on July 14, 2011. The Company anticipates that the net proceeds from the offering will be used for working capital, capital expenditures and general corporate purposes. The closing of this offering is expected to occur on or about February 3, 2012, subject to the satisfaction of customary closing conditions.

    Philadelphia Brokerage Corporation and Emerging Growth Equities, Ltd served as co-placement agents for the offering. When available, copies of the prospectus supplement and the accompanying base prospectus relating to the offering may be obtained from the Securities and Exchange Commission website at http://www.sec.gov.

    This press release does not and shall not constitute an offer to sell, or the solicitation of an offer to buy, any of the securities, nor shall there be any sale of securities in any state or jurisdiction in which such offer, solicitation or sale would be unlawful prior to registration under the securities laws of any state or jurisdiction.

    About Axion Power International, Inc.

    Axion has developed and patented a next generation energy storage device that won the prestigious Frost & Sullivan Technology Award for North America in the field of lead-acid batteries. According to Frost & Sullivan, Axion's new PbC batteries have "the potential to revitalize the lead-acid battery industry by breathing new life into an established technology that is not well suited to the requirements of important new applications like hybrid electric vehicles and renewable power."

    Axion Power International, Inc. is the industry leader in the field of lead-acid-carbon energy storage technologies. Axion believes this new battery technology is the only class of advanced battery that can be assembled on existing lead-acid battery production lines throughout the world utilizing Axion's proprietary carbon electrodes. Axion's future goal, after filling their plant's lead-carbon battery production capacity, is to become the leading supplier of carbon electrode assemblies for the global lead-acid battery industry.

    For more information, visit www.axionpower.com

    Forward-looking Statements

    Certain statements in this Press Release are "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements are based on our current expectations and beliefs and are subject to a number of risk factors and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those described in the forward-looking statements. Such risks and uncertainties include the risk for the Company to complete its development work, as well as the risks inherent in commercializing a new product (including technology risks, market risks, financial risks and implementation risks, and other risks and uncertainties affecting the Company), as well as other risks that have been included in filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, all of which are available at sec.gov. We disclaim any intention or obligation to revise any forward-looking statements, including, without limitation, financial estimates, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise.

    ####

    This is a troll free zone. Any disruptive comments will be removed.

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Comments (183)
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  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Last comment from the previous Concentrator fro DRich:

     

    >eggwis ... 481086 is correct about ZBB. As of 1Feb12 [quote] We are offering 4,225,353 shares of our common stock, par value $.01 per share, to certain investors pursuant to this prospectus supplement and accompanying prospectus. The purchase price of each share is $0.71. [quote]

     

    http://bit.ly/x26VRu

     

    That puts them in roughly the same boat as Axion.
    3 Feb 2012, 04:07 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Please kind folks thumbs up this Concentrator. Thanks!
    3 Feb 2012, 04:07 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Bang: Sheesh, wasn't five minutes before this Concentrator was up on Google's board. Amazing! Pretty soon Reuters is going to catch on ;-)
    3 Feb 2012, 04:24 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Amazing. I think Google's spiders note when the page size has changed as new comments are posted so it is constantly spidering and reindexing concentrator pages. I think it may be picking up the new concentrators right away by following the link you post when you comment "this way to the next concentrator."

     

    To test that theory I did a Google search for "Sheesh, wasn't five minutes before this Concentrator" and it immediately returned this concentrator in first position of the search results.
    3 Feb 2012, 09:30 PM Reply Like
  • SMaturin
    , contributor
    Comments (2100) | Send Message
     
    What a week!

     

    What a day!

     

    Brought my average down to under $0.50 after listening to all the thoughtful discussion here.

     

    Thanks, Axionistas!
    3 Feb 2012, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3331) | Send Message
     
    A cool million shares today. And hopefully the deal all in the bag. I imagine there's a giant exhale sound coming from New Castle and much looking forward to the first relaxed-tension weekend in a while. Next week starts a brand new phase. As John so sagely said, there is a world of difference between plans with money and plans without money. And with so many opportunities ripening, the tools and people all in place, and now fresh room to run, I bet all the folks are walking to their cars this evening with a bounce in their steps. Perhaps even a song: "Risin' up, back on the street, took our time, made our chances...." ;)
    3 Feb 2012, 04:40 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    Sophie Tucker said it best – "I've been rich and I've been poor. Believe me, honey, rich is better."
    3 Feb 2012, 05:12 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    I bet we hit major support at .50 on Monday unless some of the new stockholders want to sell some for a dime gain. That's a nice one day percentage of .35 to .46 for a super flipper.

     

    Speaking of bets, I think I won my bets against 3 Axionistas who disagreed when I suggested the capital raise would go off at .40. I'm sure a lawyer would get them out of it when it went off at .35 not .40, but they said it would be higher than .40. Anyone who thinks I won let them know its time to pay up. $5 a pop to me and $15 buys 30 shares of AXPW!
    3 Feb 2012, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4426) | Send Message
     
    >bangwhiz ... Yeah, go ahead ... gloat.
    3 Feb 2012, 05:17 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    I love to gloat!

     

    Ladies and Gentleman, we've got to start getting ready for the next conference call questions. I will be putting up an instablog for people to post potential questions over the weekend. I'm sure we need to ask questions that reveal the future so think carefully and post when ready. I'll put up a clean question list organized by topic (R&D, Manufacturing, Sales, Finance, Organization, Customers, Cap-X, etc) before the conference call.

     

    Like last time I suggest you chose a list of favorite questions, get on the conference call line, monitor previous questions and answers and if your favorite has already been covered go to your next question on your priority list.

     

    Lots more discussion will ensue in the Concentrators before the conference call, but wanted to light the fuse today. HTL will be helping me with the work and organization will be done on Google Docs. A link will be provided to the Doc to all APC members when appropriate.
    3 Feb 2012, 06:03 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3331) | Send Message
     
    Bang, excellent. I think we all really want to have our collective ducks in row for this one. I think it's safe to say that there is now more at stake for each of us than before our mass gorging of December. Some thought should also be given to submitting a refined list of questions in written form a few days prior. I don't think it's the idea of any of us to play gotcha with TG & Co, so a scrubbed list of pre-submitted questions could be the best vehicle for TG to give us the most thoughtful and maximum prudently allowable color in his answers. It would also be insurance against another conf-call systems snafu. Of course we should still have a sizable presence on the phone lines, ready to jump in if certain questions are being neglected. Anyway, just some thoughts. We've got six weeks to get this squared away. But those will go fast. Ideally, everybody needs to start thinking now... BTW I'm still mucho curious to see if the company reaches out next week and calls or emails anyone back. There might be a tell in that.
    3 Feb 2012, 06:42 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    I wanted you to be wrong but oh well. 8-)
    3 Feb 2012, 08:55 PM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2128) | Send Message
     
    I have never felt worse about losing a bet. I was sure on this one.

     

    I always pay. You need no lawyer to collect your due?
    When can you fl out to collect?
    4 Feb 2012, 06:59 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    Send me you PayPal account info! But be aware that I intend to flag the $5 as offshore gambling proceeds.
    4 Feb 2012, 09:20 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Aw, forget the payoffs! You are all honorable men! Wasn't a bet I wanted to win. The gloating is sufficient satisfaction. I would have paid off also, but it was just a fun bet.
    4 Feb 2012, 09:35 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    Send your PayPal account. I know it doesn't matter to you but it's a point of honor with me.
    4 Feb 2012, 09:41 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2128) | Send Message
     
    Nope,
    I plan on paying off, in person, the first time we meet. Perhaps I will have it framed for you.
    My new slogan:
    "Axionistas, We have the Power" "And enough financing to pay our bets"
    4 Feb 2012, 09:42 AM Reply Like
  • eggwis
    , contributor
    Comments (769) | Send Message
     
    Bang,

     

    If you don't want the money collect it anyway. I'll let you take that $15 and buy me 30 shares of Axion!
    5 Feb 2012, 07:21 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (816) | Send Message
     
    New Picture of the NS 999 on AltoonaWorks facebook page. A few comments but basically sitting in the back shop. We'll keep an eye out to see if anything changes.

     

    A few comments in that they expect it to start testing later this year. We want it now!
    3 Feb 2012, 05:15 PM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    8^(
    3 Feb 2012, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4426) | Send Message
     
    >mrholty ... If the impression I get from that Altoona FP section is correct, then the earliest Axion might see a P.O. might be next fall and that might be optimistic. I really thought this project had a higher priority.
    3 Feb 2012, 07:18 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Not the least bit encouraging. DRich. Got a link?
    3 Feb 2012, 07:54 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4426) | Send Message
     
    >bangwhiz ... It's just an impression from the comments and where it is sitting. Here's a link & let me know what kind of vibe you get.

     

    http://on.fb.me/xM1MVO
    3 Feb 2012, 07:57 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1902) | Send Message
     
    Drich,
    For the first time I have no idea where you are coming from.

     

    I don't know where you got that impression at all. The impression I got was that it will be getting tested again any time now because the first testing was no good (referring to the 2009 testing). Where do you even see the mention of next fall for anything?

     

    It says it is getting some modifications and will go back out in the field for testing.
    3 Feb 2012, 08:41 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    I didn't get any negative vibes at all from the comments. I read it the way Jakurtz saw it.
    3 Feb 2012, 09:06 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4426) | Send Message
     
    >jakurtz ... This is just pure conjecture. It's has moved from the last set of photos from the front of the engine shop to the back shop but still sits on the shop track indicating more fitting (unless this is an exit photo of the finished loco). The testing will happen "later this year"(?), so let's say testing begins;

     

    1) March: First real world test would be baselining performance and that might take 100 hours of controlled operations & evaluation. March is now over.

     

    2) April -June: NS999 is handed over to yard operations personnel and put to work in regular rotation & maintenance. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, baseline data is compiled & compared with bench/computer modeling.

     

    3) June-July: Operational data is collected from NS personnel's operation of the loco and systems are checked for physical wear-&-tear.

     

    4) July-Aug: Final report is generated and passed to management for pass/fail evaluation & approval.

     

    5) Aug-Sept: Management does what management does and Axion finds out the results.

     

    And that is the fast track as I see it happening. I hope I'm wrong and things are further along but there it is. My guess.
    3 Feb 2012, 10:08 PM Reply Like
  • FocalPoint Analytics
    , contributor
    Comments (5803) | Send Message
     
    I think the negative is it’s just sitting there.
    3 Feb 2012, 10:29 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    DRich> I can't argue with that scenario. Seems reasonable to me. If it works out that way then the $10M is enough money. Pray the switcher does good. There's still the OTR loco to deal with also.
    3 Feb 2012, 10:41 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    DRich

     

    between your analysis and FPA ..i agree it is not a good sign it is sitting around for photo shoots...hope they have others looking at it or the 35 cents makes real sense to me now...
    3 Feb 2012, 10:44 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    DRich

     

    I never like the word LATER and TESTING....

     

    I read maybe being tested later this year..Didn't sound imminent...Back to the drawing board??? If this new or old information??

     

    map
    3 Feb 2012, 11:22 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    JAK

     

    Where do you surmise the testing is imminent?? I read later this year and maybe??

     

    Please explain what i am missing besides hope...???

     

    Thanks
    MAP
    3 Feb 2012, 11:24 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4426) | Send Message
     
    >MAP ... I wouldn't read too much into the FaceBook comment of "later". Beyond the work order in hand, I doubt the Altoona Shops know anything else.

     

    It does seem that 2012 is shaping up to be a year of "Hurry-up & Wait". Meh, what's another year among friends?
    3 Feb 2012, 11:30 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    DRich

     

    Ok. Thanks...

     

    map
    3 Feb 2012, 11:33 PM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1902) | Send Message
     
    I see, you are conjecturing this because you still see no proof of it being tested, moving around, not because of any comments made on a FB page.

     

    My only thing was that from some facebook comments from who knows who at Altoona works I didn't get the impression that anything was delayed/changed nor did I get the vibe of any revelation different from what we already knew.

     

    Your timeline seems plausible but if it is accurate then it was just as applicable last month when we knew it was just getting into the shop to get its batteries installed. I fully concede to your deep knowledge of the rail yards on this one.
    4 Feb 2012, 07:37 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    :-) DR, as someone who knows Jack Schitt about railroad or any other kind of engineering practices I have a somewhat different perspective on your hypothetical NS999 development & testing schedule. Mine starts from the initial June 9, 2010 Axion-NS agreement "to develop a battery management system that would allow rail locomotives to operate on battery power and recharge their batteries through regenerative braking (http://tinyurl.com/7ls...). Now, 20 months later and with fore knowledge fuel costs are a major railroading expense and EPA air quality judgments and rulings threaten higher costs still, that the NS999 was moved into the shop and has been moved multiple times since, I anticipate a schedule more along the lines of the following.

     

    1) December-January. installation of the battery management system and PbC batteries is complete, that performance baselining has begun (accepting your 100 hours allowance for that purpose) and nearing completion.

     

    2) February. Comparison of baselining performance data with bench/computer modeling data is in process and used as a gauge of when the makeover NS999 is ready to turn over to yard operations and put to work in yard switching operations.

     

    3) Feb-March-April. Operational performance data from 24 hour operations is collected and processed daily while the locomotive batteries are recharging at the only charging station available in the Altoona yard area. Weekly, if not daily, comparison of operational performance data with bench/computer modeling data yields project reports confirming performance expectations and/or signaling need for battery management system tweaks, revamps, or Not Worth The Effort termination.

     

    4) March-April-May. Locomotive returned to shop multiple times for wear and tear assessment.

     

    5) May-June. Project report generated for pass-fail decision by upper management on further testing. Pass decision would prompt purchase decision for two - three additional NS999 type locomotives to further expand testing of the platform and assure further PbC battery sales multiple months in future (maybe by year-end).
    4 Feb 2012, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1825) | Send Message
     
    I didn't like this comment from AltoonaWorks: "Let me make this clear: It's experimental. The first setup apparently didn't live up to all expectations, so it was parked while they went back to the drawing board. It's now back in the shop and will get some modifications then go back out in the field for more testing."

     

    By 'first set-up' he means with the enersys AGM batteries, right?

     

    I'm also interpreting the statement 'it was parked while they went back to the drawing board' as meaning that it's no longer at the drawing board stage but rather they are now applying design mods.

     

    Still, the question of when testing will resume and how long testing will take is unanswered.

     

    D
    4 Feb 2012, 11:05 AM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4426) | Send Message
     
    >D-inv ... I like your timeline better but that is very quick. I just don't get the "feeling" that NS999 is viewed as an "urgent need" solution. I don't pretend to know if there are problems, a bias toward diesel or whatever but, 20 months on, the NS999 project decision moves toward the real working world very slowly. I'm 5 years on with my Axion/trains idea, I look at NS numbers of locos & money budgeted to diesel gensets & wonder.
    4 Feb 2012, 11:27 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2555) | Send Message
     
    I hope that is wrong. It would be terrible for TG to get mired in "always next quarter" mantra if NS is jerking him around ... this is only my recollection, but it might also be why he previously stated that they were talking to other RRs too ... he did say that didn't he?
    4 Feb 2012, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    I believe the background is that the AWorks commenter thought NS went for way too much and premature publicity at first with the Enersy Batteries without clearly indicating NS 999 was experimental. He's just trying to make sure that doesn't happen again, at least not from his site.
    4 Feb 2012, 11:43 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    wtb, I completely agree. And would also note that the NS999 can only be accurately characterized as Gen2 experimental. Gen1 applied Enersy LAD/AGM batteries which failed. Gen2 is same concept applied with PbC batteries. We will know whether or not Gen2a emerges when NS decides to built more test locomotives or terminate work with the PbC.
    4 Feb 2012, 11:51 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    There are several fascinating data points on Norfolk Southern.

     

    The NS 999 was apparently funded by a FY 2007 Congressional earmark from Congressman Shuster. – http://bit.ly/wpodxZ

     

    There was apparently a follow on FY 2009 earmark for the "Juniata Hybrid Locomotive Project" at Penn State and Norfolk Southern

     

    Given the way money flows from Washington, it looks like it took a little over two years to design and build the NS 999 which was rolled out on September 28, 2009 with great fanfare. – http://bit.ly/rI7uod

     

    By November 2009, they knew that AGM wasn't good enough for the job and began examining alternatives including "lithium ion and nickel-based rechargeable batteries, as well as improved lead-acid batteries." – http://bit.ly/wrFRnF

     

    While I generally hate making assumptions, I do think it's safe to assume that they installed all the monitoring equipment you can imagine in the NS 999 before they started testing it. The brief field testing prior to failure should have generated reams of hard data that they've been using in their testing program.

     

    They hired Axion to build the BMS in June 2010 and have been doing double redundant testing at Axion, NS and Penn State for at least 18 months. I think they have a very good handle on how the NS 999 will perform when it gets out of the shop.

     

    In the FY 2010 budget negotiations, Rep Shuster apparently sought an additional $1.5 million for the "Juniata Hybrid Locomotive" – http://bit.ly/wohulV

     

    Axion just completed a $10 million registered direct placement. Under Federal Securities Law, placement agents have a duty to conduct an adequate due diligence investigation before they sell stock. I have never been involved in a public or private transaction where the placement agents or underwriters failed to confirm the existence and status of all important relationships. I can't imagine the transaction would close without the placement agents speaking directly to Norfolk Southern and BMW. The substance of the calls would not have been communicated to investors because they're non-public information, but the calls were almost certainly made and the placement agents were obviously satisfied with the responses they got. It's easy to obsess over the lack of information when you're operating in a vacuum, but I see $10 million of proof from people who were not operating in a vacuum that things are progressing according to plan.
    4 Feb 2012, 12:05 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4426) | Send Message
     
    >JP ... That info almost makes it read like NS999 progress is dependent of how fast taxpayer money flows toward it & not any interest NS might have in it.
    4 Feb 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • Tim Enright
    , contributor
    Comments (1341) | Send Message
     
    Didn't TG make the statement that they are testing the NS installation in the Powercube? I was very impressed by this. Where else can you push and pull that much power and get paid for it. If it would accelerate the NS timeline, I suspect they might even do it for PJM for free (or a very low cost).
    4 Feb 2012, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • jpau
    , contributor
    Comments (714) | Send Message
     
    Aside from the NS999, but what about the yard slugs? Any word on how that might be progressing?
    4 Feb 2012, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    The NS 999 is the yard slug. The more fascinating project is the road locomotive and it's unclear where that project stands at the moment.
    4 Feb 2012, 02:02 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4426) | Send Message
     
    >jpau ... Best I can figure is that the project has not progressed beyond the talking stage. A lot about the OTR hybrid seems to be dependent on the NS999 project.
    4 Feb 2012, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • jpau
    , contributor
    Comments (714) | Send Message
     
    Thanks John, got them backward.
    4 Feb 2012, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Yes he did say they were talking to other railroads and I have the impression from somewhere he seemed to hint NS wasn't happy about it. Something to consider asking about in the conf call.
    4 Feb 2012, 09:31 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    BANG...Typical headhunter wanting his commission asap. Good call

     

    MAP
    3 Feb 2012, 06:05 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    When I was asked if there were any guarantees with their retainer bill I said "Yes, you will have to pay it!" On the other hand after they had paid their 2/3's of the fee upfront in two payments (1 upfront, 1 30 days later) I guaranteed to work on filling the position until it was done. That can turn into working for 10 cents an hour if things go badly. Months go by and you are wondering "when am I going to get this monkey off my back?" Worst case I gave them the retainer back and called it a day. Only did that once.
    3 Feb 2012, 07:19 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    Guys

     

    I am outta here for the night...My knee surgery did not go as expected ( full tear of the meniscus ) so i need to wear a full leg brace. My wife talked the doctor out of a full leg cast while i was still under. So 6 weeks of this instead of 2 weeks in a knee brace..I need some sleep.

     

    Also my head needs a rest so all enjoy the game on Sunday. I will be checking in but hope i fall a sleep as it is uncomfortable trying to sleep in one position with a brace on.

     

    Lets go Giants, AND LETS START TO SEE SOME ORDERS FLOWING !!!

     

    map
    3 Feb 2012, 06:11 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    MAP> How the hell did you do hurt your leg? Hope you get over it and well soon. Since you are a Giants fan thought I mention I ran the New York City office of a national search firm at 45th and 5th for awhile. The manager of that office was canned for an affair with a secretary, I was in DC Office and worked in New York 3 days a week living in a hotel nearby. I had a blast. Fried my company's AMEX card every night.

     

    Since I was from the DC office (but VP of Sales) the people in the NY office thought I would bomb out trying to sell companies in NYC. First time I went out to see a potential new client (Babcock and Wilcox) I left the office and was back in a little over 1/.2 hour. They thought "Ah ha!" I got the last smile, I had the retainer check in my pocket to find a head of fracture mechanics research for their Ohio R&D center. Pulled someone out of Dupont for them. Piece of cake. So long ago confidentiality doesn't matter. I don't know if B&W even still exists. In NY they say "Yes" or "Fuggetaboutit" right a way. No dilly dallying!

     

    What the hell I might as well tell you a good search story. Friend of mine was an independent and he was hired to find a Comptroller for a major DC University hospital. He went after an hispanic lady wit good experience calling her at her home. An hispanic woman answered the phone and he pitched her going for an interview. She agreed to go see them at 10AM Tuesday. The hospital had a full slate of execs waiting to meet and interview her. Monday the woman he was talking to called and said she had one question. He asked what was it? She said "What do they want me to clean?" He had recruited the candidate's maid! Can you imagine if she had shown up for the interview? :<D
    3 Feb 2012, 07:41 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2100) | Send Message
     
    On the subject of nanocarbon type materials.

     

    Most Axionistas know by now that the "carbon" in the Axion electrode is actually a composite of a "Teflon like" thermoplastic and activated carbon particles made from organic cellulose (wood like) based material. Tricky stuff and not cheap to make.

     

    There is a start-up, or maybe not yet incorporated, company I ran across recently that apparently has found a way to assemble carbon into a matrix that has a higher surface area and lower ESR per gram then the material Axion uses. It does NOT use an organic starting point, AFAIK. They have tested it in a way that says they see it as a direct replacement for activated carbon in battery electrodes. They said as much, IIRC.

     

    This material has the potential to give the PbC more Quick Energy delivery from the capacitor like part of the cell. It should also lower the internal heating caused by the resistance of the two electrodes when operating at high current.
    Or maybe not. But very interesting. I suspect Axion knows about it and is investigating.
    My take is that the unknown company can't use the material the way Axion does because of the patent fence Axion has around the lead-carbon technology. If licensed to Axion, it might allow a new Super-PbC to be made. This is all speculation now, of course.

     

    But here's the problem; I have lost track of the web site reference and I don't remember the NAME. I thought I filed it but it's not in the expected place.
    Does anyone out there know of this group/company? If so, please post the link. I feel silly for not following up on it, but I was distracted. That's my excuse, etc. :-)
    3 Feb 2012, 07:41 PM Reply Like
  • pascquale
    , contributor
    Comments (94) | Send Message
     
    EnerG2?
    3 Feb 2012, 09:53 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    shb, is http://bit.ly/x0I0uu what you are looking for?
    3 Feb 2012, 10:06 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2100) | Send Message
     
    D-inv: YES! That's the one. The numbers shown are impressive, assuming they are real.

     

    http://bit.ly/x0I0uu

     

    ElectroMaterials Inc.

     

    My favorite quote from the web site write-up:

     

    "EMI’s NCC functions as both electrode and current collector in PbC eliminating the metal current collector as well as the protective coating. The equivalent series resistance (ESR) of PbC cell using NCC as carbon electrode is comparable to that of lead acid battery."
    Note the generic use of "PbC". It existed before Axion copywrighted it, I believe.

     

    VERY interesting.
    3 Feb 2012, 10:28 PM Reply Like
  • DRich
    , contributor
    Comments (4426) | Send Message
     
    >SHB ... EMI has developed a pretty cool material there. Spiral wound Lead-Carbon battery/capacitor. Wonder if that is covered by Axion's patent fence?
    3 Feb 2012, 10:44 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I'm setting the way-back machine here and can't get too deeply into the why's but my recollection is that natural carbons are inherently better for the PbC because the technology needs the natural circulatory structure you can only find something built by nature; and different chemical and physical reactions happen better in different size pores. The Russians used to wax poetic as they spoke of the balance between nano-pores, meso-pores and macro-pores and it's my understanding that they're all important in a thick sintered electrode like Axion's. I wish I could provide more detail but we've reached my technical depth. Maybe KT will jump in with more detail.

     

    The original Axion patent covers any device with a lead-based positive electrode and a carbon based negative electrode in an acid electrolyte. It's a fundamental blocker for anybody who wants to make an asymmetric lead-carbon electric double layer capacitor. US Patent 6,466,429 specifically claims:

     

    "1. An electric double layer capacitor comprising: a polarizable electrode made of a carbon material, a non-polarizable electrode including lead dioxide and lead sulfate, a separator between the polarizable electrode and the non-polarizable electrode, and an aqueous solution electrolyte containing sulfuric acid, wherein the mass ratio of the lead sulfate to the lead dioxide ranges from about 0.1 to 99% to about 99 to 0.1%, and wherein the polarizable electrode also contains lead.

     

    2. The capacitor of claim 1, wherein the portion of the lead in the polarizable electrode ranges from about 0.03 to about 3% by weight.

     

    3. The capacitor of claim 1, wherein the non-polarizable electrode further contains lead monoxide in a mass amount of from about 0.2 to about 5% of the lead sulfate.

     

    4. The capacitor of claim 1, wherein the non-polarizable electrode further contains lead phosphate in a mass amount of from about 0.1 to about 5% of the active mass of the electrode.

     

    5. The capacitor of claim 1, wherein the polarizable electrode, the non-polarizable electrode, the separator and the aqueous solution electrolyte are enclosed in a case, wherein the polarizable electrode, the non-polarizable electrode and the separator are porous, and wherein the volume of the electrolyte in the case is lower than the total volume of the pores in the electrodes and the separator.

     

    6. The capacitor of claim 5, wherein the electrolyte-free portion of pore volume in both electrodes and the separator is in from about 10% to about 50%.

     

    7. The capacitor of claim 5, wherein the case has an internal space and the internal space is under vacuum.

     

    8. The capacitor of claim 1, wherein the polarizable electrode, the non-polarizable electrode, the separator and the aqueous solution electrolyte comprise a single capacitor cell and at least one capacitor cell is compressed between case pressure covers of a case enclosing the at least one capacitor cell."

     

    The subsequent patents build a fence around that core and run to matters like a laminated electrode design and using conventional lead-acid battery manufacturing equipment to fabricate a PbC device.

     

    I don't claim to be a patent wiz, but Axion's position seems pretty unassailable to this old securities jock.
    4 Feb 2012, 12:46 AM Reply Like
  • Poul Brandt
    , contributor
    Comments (271) | Send Message
     
    I notice that ElectroMaterials, Inc. writes:
    "PbC Battery Application
    The current market of PbC using conventional carbon powder electrode as anode is limited by high internal resistance and high cost... "

     

    Axion Power writes on the homepage: "Our PbC® technology...."

     

    So PbC is a registered tradename.

     

    What is interesting is that PbC is used a a general name for our batteries. That is free marketing. (But is dangerous if going too far, as it may then become a generic name).
    4 Feb 2012, 08:10 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    That's why PbC was chosen for the trademark.

     

    Once upon a time we worked very hard to get trademark registration for "e3 Supercell." While I don't recall why e3 was chosen originally, the trademark was not available because of products like the Olympus e3 camera.

     

    Since the elemental symbol for lead is Pb and the elemental symbol for carbon is C, PbC seemed like a natural it could be trademarked.
    4 Feb 2012, 09:32 AM Reply Like
  • Poul Brandt
    , contributor
    Comments (271) | Send Message
     
    John

     

    Yes, PbC is a really good trademark. Well done.
    4 Feb 2012, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2100) | Send Message
     
    I said previously about the ElectroMaterials, Inc nanoporus carbon electrode product: "It does NOT use an organic starting point, AFAIK. "

     

    Well, apparently I DID NOT know, or remember correctly. There does seem to be an organic based starting point for their all-carbon finished product.
    They apparently use a plastic-activated carbon composite as the starting point and then convert the plastic to all-carbon in processing. Converting the plastic material to high porosity carbon is the "special" part.

     

    The proof of the pudding is in the total surface area/gram and the ESR of the product. The numbers look nice, but I saw no mention of independent testing.

     

    I really do need to read the patent some day :-)
    4 Feb 2012, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2100) | Send Message
     
    If Axion isn't evaluating this interesting material from ElectroMaterials, Inc. I would be VERY surprised. To my limited knowledge and understanding, it appears to fit smoothly into the Axion PbC technology. Not a drop-in, but possibly an improvement with redesign.

     

    Given the patent fence Axion has raised, it also appears that only Axion can use the material in a LA battery-capacitor product.

     

    Because the all-carbon product doesn't need a metal current collector, it may be a possible route to the desirable "bipolar" cell stacking configuration. That technology can produce a higher energy density product. It also allows higher voltage with less wiring; very desirable when competing for the 100+ Volt, 1-2kWh slot in hybrid designs.

     

    2014? Maybe.
    4 Feb 2012, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I don't don't think Axion would be happy about losing the metal current collector because it's easy to weld a lead lug on a metal current collector and run electrode assembly through top-casting and other standard AGM manufacturing processes.

     

    Getting good electrical connection between a carbon sheet and standard top-cast welding is challenging to say the least. It was one of the biggest blockers for Firefly Energy.

     

    The beauty of the PbC design is that it works in all flat-plate AGM battery manufacturing facilities. If you change that design format, you need to develop complete manufacturing processes and build new manufacturing facilities from the ground up. There's no opportunity to leverage existing infrastructure, the time requirements are daunting and I don't want to think about the cost.

     

    Bi-polar lead-acid is a great technical concept, but when you consider the engineering steps between a great concept and a great product it's enough to make your ears bleed.

     

    Think nickels. Think Manhole covers. Save the billion dollar projects for the time when Axion has a multi-billion dollar balance sheet.
    4 Feb 2012, 12:59 PM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1781) | Send Message
     
    The last time I saw KT say anything about this matter he seemed to indicate that Axion was thinking more about changing the composition of the binding material in the carbon electrode rather than changing from the natural carbon. That was all he said he could say about the topic and then commented that he was looking at his telephone to make sure it didn't start ringing for posting even that much.
    4 Feb 2012, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2100) | Send Message
     
    John: I agree completely. I think of the project as a possible "PbC Mark2". Better, lighter, cheaper and with new carbon electrode connection technology.

     

    I just think Axion will be able to afford to start the project in 2014 :-)
    4 Feb 2012, 06:59 PM Reply Like
  • eggwis
    , contributor
    Comments (769) | Send Message
     
    Interesting that you guys are on this topic. It really would be awesome if I could keep up with the rate of conversation here. I always seem to be at least 1 day and a couple topics behind. Anyway, I was thinking along similar lines last night.
    5 Feb 2012, 12:40 PM Reply Like
  • Mercy Jimenez
    , contributor
    Comments (1886) | Send Message
     
    Silicon, probably not what you are looking for -- but in recent research (trying to educate myself) I came across Nanosys and Leyden Energy. Decided to send this link along in case it helps jog your memory:
    http://bit.ly/zPykzq
    3 Feb 2012, 08:52 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2100) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Mercy. It wasn't one of them, but both are interesting. Both are nibbling at the performance of lithium ion batteries. A bit here and a bit there...

     

    I still want enough energy storage to run by blaster pistol without a 50 pound back pack of batteries :-)

     

    [ See Leslie Nielsen in Forbidden Planet.]

     

    3 Feb 2012, 09:23 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13440) | Send Message
     
    All you need is room temp superconductors, Mr. Fusion (just like back to the future), and maybe a few 200 carat clear saphires grown to spec in zero gravity.

     

    Simple.
    3 Feb 2012, 11:24 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2100) | Send Message
     
    trip, now you're just being nasty :-)
    4 Feb 2012, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • KentG
    , contributor
    Comments (367) | Send Message
     
    Here is a link to a start/stop article on Designews. Makes the future look really good for Axion.

     

    http://bit.ly/wm7DSA

     

    The comments show how little most folks know about SS. 8-)
    3 Feb 2012, 08:52 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, KG! Pretty interesting info.
    3 Feb 2012, 10:26 PM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (313) | Send Message
     
    New article by John

     

    http://bit.ly/yE6bt4
    3 Feb 2012, 10:20 PM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (313) | Send Message
     
    I like these cool videos !

     

    http://bit.ly/wpM9xm

     

    http://bit.ly/xVpQDM

     

    http://bit.ly/wFr7c4
    3 Feb 2012, 10:37 PM Reply Like
  • Frrat
    , contributor
    Comments (77) | Send Message
     
    Anyone has any idea who provides battery to Ford Focus's S/S system?
    4 Feb 2012, 09:18 PM Reply Like
  • CoryM
    , contributor
    Comments (70) | Send Message
     
    Viridity looking at $10 million in revenue this year...
    http://bit.ly/xCpEhD

     

    Also, anyone know if this is a PowerCube solution?
    http://bit.ly/w84soD
    3 Feb 2012, 11:07 PM Reply Like
  • anthlj
    , contributor
    Comments (230) | Send Message
     
    I'd like to invest in Viridity. Those guys look as though they will make money. They know the system and how to exploit it to their favour. Let's hope Axion forms part of their pathway.
    4 Feb 2012, 02:16 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2128) | Send Message
     
    CoryM,
    The article is unclear as to how Drexel generates revenue. I imagine it is from reducing load at peak times. But so far there is no PowerCube application since Drexel doesn't generate excess power to store. Once they implement wind or solar the PowerCube could be their storage medium.
    4 Feb 2012, 09:59 AM Reply Like
  • CoryM
    , contributor
    Comments (70) | Send Message
     
    Okay, For some reason I was thinking in order to sell excess power back to the grid a PowerCube solution was needed. The learning continues.
    4 Feb 2012, 12:35 PM Reply Like
  • pianomanshl
    , contributor
    Comments (313) | Send Message
     
    "Meeting the Challenges of Storage in a Complex Regulatory Environment"

     

    Presentation by Audrey Ziebelman(President of Viridity Energy) at the 2010 Charged2020 Forum. Part 1, 2, 3, 4

     

    http://bit.ly/zSgxpw
    http://bit.ly/z8iwSx
    http://bit.ly/xGUVHU
    http://bit.ly/xGhkJ2
    3 Feb 2012, 11:57 PM Reply Like
  • Al Marshall
    , contributor
    Comments (498) | Send Message
     
    I'm listening to the Ziebelman presentation from June 2010. In part 3 at the 5:10 point she mentioned that PJM was conducting two battery and two electric vehicle pilots for frequency regulation. She provided no additional information. Anyone have any thoughts on whether or not Axion might have been one of the two battery providers? 17 months before the public announcement in November, 2011 seems like a long time.
    6 Feb 2012, 05:36 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I think June 2010 would have been too early for Axion. As I recall the Altair test was in PJM, but I don't remember who the others might have been.
    7 Feb 2012, 12:47 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    I created an Instablog today as a tool for organizing questions for the March Earnings Conference Call. You can post your questions for Tom Granville, Axion's CEO, for the Conference Call here: http://bit.ly/xMaVUh

     

    As the question lists grow I will create a matrix by topic in a Google Doc and provide a link to the document so members can view all questions submitted by topic. 2012 is critical IMHO to our Axion investments. Let's make sure we get the best information and insights as possible from the next conference call!
    4 Feb 2012, 10:28 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1902) | Send Message
     
    I thought this was pretty cool. I went back and looked at the transcript for the Aug. 16 2011 conference call. In the Q&A there was this back and forth on the financing and gen 2 line capacity for future orders. In this excerpt it shows what Granville said about the financing, about the powercube, and about the minicube for military bases; and very important to note is that everything he said about those things 7 months later have come to pass almost exactly as he stated them.

     

    Note that Granville says, $28M was only for flexibility and believes the amount of the raise will be a "fraction" of that (about 1/3 seems like a good fraction to me.) He also talks about the minicube for military bases and how they have made significant in roads there. He also talks about getting the PowerCube built and ready for demonstration's. All these things happened pretty much exactly as planned -- I am kind of impressed because if you have ever been on conference calls with other companies almost nothing happens as they plan it to.

     

    My take-away with this is pointing out that they are still on plan and schedule and seem to meet those plans and expectations they set very effectively. (The one exception is where they have been held up by NS's schedule for the loco).

     

    One other thing earlier up in the call (I don't have that part of the call here) He talks about not getting the DOE grant and it being disappointing but not entirely unanticipated and reiterates their continued work with the large US OEM that grant was filed with. He also notes that no lead-acid or enhanced carbon battery received money from that DOE and it is sad the DOE so set on only funding lithium-ion
    ----------------------...
    Here is an excerpt:

     

    "P. Kim: Good morning. A lot of my questions were actually answered in the prepared commentary, but I was curious on the status of the second generation electrode line. The low hundreds of units per shift – what type of scale does that contemplate? Is that good enough for like a train order
    or is it something that contemplates, perhaps, the OEM in the US turning into a contract or if the European OEMs sign on with you guys, how would that current line scale?

     

    T. Granville: Yes. That’s a good question, and we certainly have enough production time there to beat the goals that we have right now and the orders that we have right now. We were able, for example, to produce the batteries for our PowerCube on that line. We had no problem in doing that whatsoever. Our fundraise that we will be undertaking in the future will address second and third robotic lines that will aid in that production and, of course, we can go to more than one shift. The old plant here, at one
    time, ran three shifts six and half days a week, so, yes, there is sufficient capacity to do what we see as near future events.

     

    P. Kim: I see. That’s helpful. Do you think that the $28 million of total maximum amount should be enough to fund the second and third lines completely or is this just to get started?

     

    T. Granville: No. I think I tried to point out in my comments – that $28 million is a number that was filed to give us flexibility. We don’t anticipate using anywhere near that amount. Certainly the next raise, that would be a fraction of that amount, would give us enough to augment the existing robotic line.

     

    P. Kim I see. Thank you. I just have one last question. There is a compelling case, it appears, that the European OEMs will be shifting over a significant portion of their fleet to meet the new standards. One thing I’m curious on
    – what are the two major/two large players – JCI and Exide – doing if they’re not working with you guys closely? Would they have their own type of carbon or a different lead-acid hybrid that they’re working on?

     

    T. Granville: I can’t speak for either of them. We have had conversations with large lead-acid battery companies as to the future and where the future goes for us and for lead carbon in general. I think we’ve pointed out in the past a number of times what our business platform is and that platform is to take
    the technology out to the end user and prove the application. We do not –it is not in our plan – want to be a large lead-acid battery company and compete with the Johnson Controls, and the Chinas, and the Exides of the world. That’s not what our view of the future is for Axion.

     

    So, once a concept has been proven, we will be looking to be the provider of the negative electrode to other lead-acid battery companies to make their batteries better. I can’t really get into a lot more detail than that.

     

    P. Kim: I see. Thank you for that clarification.

     

    Coordinator This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Thomas Granville for any closing remarks.

     

    T. Granville: Thank you. On the last call, I said it has only been 47 days since our last earnings call. This time, it has only been 27 days since I reported progress at our annual meeting, so I’m not that surprised that there aren’t more questions. Nonetheless, in this short time we have seen progress on the hybrid locomotive front, on the automotive front, with our US strategic
    partner, in the grid storage area where we have finished assembling our on-site PowerCube ™ – we’re testing all four of the 160 battery strings in that cube. All batteries are now hooked up to our battery management system and communications links have been fully established with the system electronics.
    As we have previously indicated, the on-site PowerCube will allow us to test our product in numerous grid applications, including dispatchable power, back-up power, power quality, load leveling, and potential arbitrized utilization. We will also be able to test large strings of batteries for other applications, such as the hybrid locomotive, distributed and renewable power, and back-up and ancillary service systems for applications such as oil rigs.

     

    We have made progress on the automotive front with our strategic partner and with the execution and erection, I should say, of solar panels here at our Green Ridge facility. These are scheduled for hook up by the end of this month or early next month. We have also completed our residential energy storage product, which is also undergoing, testing here at New Castle. We feel we have made good progress with much more to come. Thank you all for your time and for allowing us to share our story of a
    disruptive technology that is moving into commercialization."
    ----------------------...

     

    Just thought this was a good reminder for where we have been, and where we are going. A disruptive technology trying to move into commercialization being executed as methodically as possible.
    4 Feb 2012, 10:30 AM Reply Like
  • Stefan Moroney
    , contributor
    Comments (2555) | Send Message
     
    Good to read again ...
    4 Feb 2012, 11:43 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    LAWYERLY THOUGHTS ON THE OFFERING

     

    Axion just completed a $10 million registered direct placement.

     

    Under Federal Securities Law, broker-dealers have a statutory duty to conduct an adequate due diligence investigation before they sell stock to the public. If they fail to perform the required due diligence investigation, they can be held liable to the purchasers for the entire amount invested. While individual investors think of their reading and research as due diligence, broker-dealers start with a proctoscope and then they get intrusive.

     

    I have never been involved in a public or private stock sale where the placement agents or underwriters failed to confirm the existence and status of all important business relationships.

     

    I can't imagine a scenario where a $10 million registered offering would close without the placement agents speaking directly to Norfolk Southern and BMW. The substance of the calls would not have been communicated to investors because that's non-public information, but the calls were almost certainly made and the placement agents were obviously satisfied with the responses.

     

    It's easy for investors to obsess over the lack of public information, but I view the newly completed $10 million offering as proof positive that securities professionals who performed a mandatory due diligence investigation were satisfied that all major relationships are progressing according to plan.
    4 Feb 2012, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    JP

     

    Hopefully that info will quiet us anxious uninformed investors from guessing exactly what is happening. I know i fell a liitle more secure..

     

    MAP
    4 Feb 2012, 02:41 PM Reply Like
  • KirkTierney
    , contributor
    Comments (69) | Send Message
     
    Spot on, JP.
    4 Feb 2012, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3331) | Send Message
     
    They woulda had to talk to GM too I would think.
    4 Feb 2012, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I suspect they would have been on the call list too, along with key suppliers, the flooded battery purchaser, Rosewater, Viridity, PJM, patent and litigation counsel, the auditors and bankers, and heaven knows who else. Like I said, broker-dealer due diligence starts with a proctoscope and then gets seriously intrusive.
    4 Feb 2012, 02:05 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3331) | Send Message
     
    http://yhoo.it/vZmakd

     

    This, this is hilarious. And of course, it was only a matter of time. Money quote: "If I wanted to drive from Davis to San Francisco and back, I'd have to rent a car"

     

    And only $30K for the turbine. Bargain. Hmm... will it work in an airplane? ;)
    4 Feb 2012, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    '086 > http://yhoo.it/vZmakd

     

    :-) 21st century "gas can" to refuel stranded "on empty" BEVs.
    4 Feb 2012, 02:55 PM Reply Like
  • D. McHattie
    , contributor
    Comments (1825) | Send Message
     
    That is truly, truly moronic.

     

    If I lift the engine out of my car and put it on a trailer behind my car does that mean it's now a 'zero emissions vehicle'?

     

    D
    4 Feb 2012, 06:43 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17297) | Send Message
     
    Altitude has a serious degrading effect on single-stage compression setups.

     

    The C370 (a compound arrangement with low and high-pressure spools) might work.

     

    If a series HEAVY (Hybrid-electric aeronautic vehicle, YAHOO! ... er "Brand X") was the setup, the batteries act as backup in case of failure to allow enough distance, in conservation/glide mode, to achieve a safe landing in *most* terrains.

     

    HardToLove
    4 Feb 2012, 06:55 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3331) | Send Message
     
    I'm thinking about starting a business... first I get a helicopter. If anyone's got an old HH-1N for sale let me know. Then, I get one of these Capstone 30KW microturbines, three or four 20 gal propane bottles and a bigazz extension cord. I strap all that down in the cabin. Then, I fly up and down the key interstates, on the lookout for stranded eco-evangelists, which will be easy to spot, because they'll be the ones standing on the roofs of their stricken EVchariots praying to the green goddess. So then I swoop down, spewing nasty JP exhaust (jet fuel exhaust, not the other kind we sometimes get around here ;) Fire up my glossy fossy burner and save their day. Which takes at least an hour. Oh, first they pay me like one thousand dollars. See I'll have a card reader with me and just use their iphone. Then, once they're back on the road all happy, I fire up and zoom away, heading up the interstate for the next exciting episode of EVSavior-- Electrons From The Sky!!!

     

    Who's in? ;)
    4 Feb 2012, 03:17 PM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2350) | Send Message
     
    ROFLMAO =)
    4 Feb 2012, 04:40 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17297) | Send Message
     
    I believe they'll travel in packs - safety in numbers you know. Might want to get at least a C65 (and a sidearm - packs can get ugly), maybe even a C200 so you can charge a bunch at once.

     

    But you'd be better off with a ground vehicle - it's *very* expensive to keep hardware in the air.

     

    A few trucks or cars stationed strategically up and down the major thoroughfares manned by your employees sounds like a lot more fun than having to do it all yourself.

     

    You could use the Langford Engineering conversion as both your charger and motive power. Run on NG until it gets expensive, then switch to propane or (bio)diesel, ...

     

    You'll make a killing and give jobs to some folks that need it and want to be at home every night too.

     

    Hm, a Wrightspeed delivery truck conversion might be the ticket - can pack a few turbines, depending on model, in the cargo area. The ISO standard container for the C600-C100 ought to fit nicely.

     

    HardToLove
    4 Feb 2012, 07:05 PM Reply Like
  • siliconhillbilly
    , contributor
    Comments (2100) | Send Message
     
    HTL: Good point on the ground vehicle. I suggest a bounty on any dead EV car reported to the Charging Service. Gives the system extra eyes. I imagine the EV drives will be too lost in the ozone to even think about "rescue charging" companies, so another person calling in their woes makes sense ;-)
    4 Feb 2012, 10:49 PM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13440) | Send Message
     
    48, you're missing the big bonanza... PrePaid insurance. Run an ad campaign advertising your service, and offering a discount if they purchase your "Roadside Charging Insurance Plan". This krew will jump all over it, even those who never drive "outside the beltway" of whatever megacity they inhabit. The bulk of your income will be from the thousands who buy the insurance, rather than the dozens who actually ever use it.

     

    I would suggest that you NOT offer an option to replace damaged or exhausted battery packs as part of your insurance, however. If you price it properly they will be CERTAIN you are gouging them, since they won't believe that it could actually "cost that much".
    5 Feb 2012, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    Now that's a business plan that could work. Nobody ever lost money capitalizing on the anxiety of the herd.
    5 Feb 2012, 02:27 PM Reply Like
  • eggwis
    , contributor
    Comments (769) | Send Message
     
    I'm in 481. I presume the card reader will be powered by our trusty turbine as well, or do they make a helicopter edition power adapter for them? ;-)
    6 Feb 2012, 02:46 AM Reply Like
  • eggwis
    , contributor
    Comments (769) | Send Message
     
    HTL,

     

    I don't think the "pack travelers" would be a good target market. They'll likely have a VW micro-bus pulling up the rear with a turbine of their own strapped to the top for such emergencies. ;-)
    6 Feb 2012, 02:49 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    The big problem I see is customer density. There are maybe 5,000 BEVs in all of California. Since they won't typically get stranded more frequently than once a month, you're looking at a target market of 60,000 annual events, or about 200 events per day, or one event per day for every 10 miles of Interstate.

     

    To pay for the helicopter you probably need eight to ten paying events per day. While I'd like to see detailed cash flow forecast, it just doesn't seem like a business that's likely to be profitable enough to justify an IPO.
    4 Feb 2012, 03:36 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3331) | Send Message
     
    Darn. I was hoping to figure out a cool way to fly around on OPM. Lawyers and accountants, always gotta squelch the fun. ;)
    4 Feb 2012, 03:49 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    That's the tough part of my job because I have to tell about 99% of the people who call me no. The lawyer's due diligence obligations are even worse than the broker-dealer's.
    4 Feb 2012, 03:56 PM Reply Like
  • eggwis
    , contributor
    Comments (769) | Send Message
     
    481,

     

    Don't be disheartened so easily. There are many businesses out there that make mucho $$ without the need for an IPO. I'll fly with ya! By the time we've used the heli after hours for a couple of years to haul our profits to the bank, the EV market will have expanded somewhat; perhaps even considerably in CA. Then we'll have customer density and JP will emailing us 3x / day urging us to go public. ;-)
    6 Feb 2012, 11:00 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3331) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the good word Egg. I'm saving up for the huey right now. In the meanwhile I'll keep an eye on the target market and prep for the roadshow... ;)
    6 Feb 2012, 11:15 PM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3331) | Send Message
     
    Good things to know. ;) I mentioned GM above but was a bit hasty in hitting the "reply" button..(I got called away.) But what I find intriguing, is that in reading Al Mulally's recent interview right here on SA, and also your latest article on altenergystocks, it seems we have this situation where US auto manufacturers are going to ramp to 8 million SS/MicroH vehicles a year in north america in the next five years. Which will be what 60% of their total sales volume? If that's true, they've got to be busy as heck right now, and I mean busy, in finalizing and implementing their plans. Yet no one's really talking about it all that much on the mainstream level. Witness Al Mulally's silence on the topic. You hear a little bit about ecoboost, but no real customer education campaign yet.. there must be a lot going on behind the scenes. All the silence must mean that there is big money at stake and in play. And definitely with the battery suppliers. The Exide CC next Friday might yield some clues. I would have to think they're going to talk about the status of the new plant. And how SS is key to their plans. I know this is getting to be a ramble, but all of it seems to support the thesis that this SS/MH wave is indeed really coming. And going to break soon. 2017 just isn't that far away. Not to get to 8 million vehicles a year. We're bound to start seeing some concrete things come out in the open pretty soon. GM began its relationship with Axion not much later than BMW . The latest Axion presentation clearly say this (slide 21): "OEM vehicle testing of PbC® battery with optimized hybrid vehicle system architecture began in 2011". The battery guys are building AGM capacity as we speak.

     

    I know after this week it's easier to doubt and maybe even lose heart, but I gotta believe the stars are still slowly aligning. Virtually any automotive related contract has got to mean that other ones are likely coming. And with them, the future of the company will be all but set. And we will be out of penny stock hell. Patience friends, the wheels are turning... ;)
    4 Feb 2012, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » 48: Heck of a comment. I agree with your notion that there's lots going on behind the veils of giant corporations. JP's report on the Lux report was at the least, stunning to digest the s/s numbers.

     

    What's even more startling is that when you put Ford, GM, BMW and NS all together, combined, they don't come close to what the "grid needs" will be in the coming years.
    4 Feb 2012, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • mrholty
    , contributor
    Comments (816) | Send Message
     
    You know its a big job when Ford has a job called
    Director - Start/Stop Engineering.

     

    I came across the guy in an article that I cannot find for the life of me now. When you have a guy (Director) and probably staff its not a little side project but a real investment.

     

    Knowing what I know of Alan Mullaly (I've had dinner with him once) or more importantly what I know of a good friend of his is that he wants to be early to the dance. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ford leading on this tech in the near future, at least in the US Market.
    7 Feb 2012, 01:39 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17297) | Send Message
     
    Mr. Holty: With s/s sow widely accepted in Europe already, and all using woefully inadequate batteries, I would think Ford Europe would be the first out of the gate. Combining the joint effort of Ford and BMW in the early evaluations, this seems more likely to me.

     

    And that *might* mean volume sales earlier than we expected, using the U.S. Introduction as our anticipated "break out".

     

    All speculation, of course.

     

    HardToLove
    7 Feb 2012, 01:55 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Would be interesting to know how much "platform sharing" goes on between US and Europe.

     

    And there's this :

     

    http://bit.ly/yMy7EM
    7 Feb 2012, 02:23 PM Reply Like
  • H. T. Love
    , contributor
    Comments (17297) | Send Message
     
    WTB: I don't think that can have too much effect on the PbC/no-PbC equation as, IIRC, there's more stringent testing of s/s systems coming down the pike.

     

    I'm not sure, but ISTR that there's some dates, published by JP(?), already?

     

    With that being mandated, I think (F) would have to address the problem regardless of sales slumps.

     

    HardToLove
    7 Feb 2012, 03:16 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    I get the distinct impression that the Powercube in all its various sizes will be the main product being pushed in 2012. I can't say I am all warm and fuzzy about NS's schedule. TG said he expected an order from NS in Q1, so either he's correct or something has postponed it again. Auto's are 24 months from the 2011 Q3 conference call in a remark TG made to an Axionista over the phone.

     

    TG said they were talking to other railroads so we will have to learn if there are any active proposals to other railroads. Hard to say if TG would answer that question because he might not want NS being privy to information. I also got that impression from somewhere NS wasn't happy about discussions with other railroads either because the development work had been done on their nickle. Another question area for the CC. I'm working from an impression or faint memory - don't take it to the bank.

     

    Without rail or auto battery sales it will put a lot of pressure on Vani and Rosewater to move Powercubes during 2012, and in particular before the Q2 conference call. Utilities make decisions at a glacial pace. Viridity could help move some PowerCubes quicker for sure. I don't like the idea of going into Q3 with sales still a black hole.and a capital raise looming at the end of Q4 2012

     

    Makes you wonder what all those thousands of battery casings will be used for Maya saw at the Cube ribbon cutting event. I don't know when the flooded battery purchase order ends either. Anyone remember the exact start-end dates? No guessing allowed.
    4 Feb 2012, 10:29 PM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4597) | Send Message
     
    My thoughts exactly bang...I have no hopes for auto this year, and very little for NS either. I hope I am wrong.
    5 Feb 2012, 03:16 AM Reply Like
  • Mr Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2511) | Send Message
     
    Excellent discussion topic! What does everyone else think about the timing and nature of future announcements?

     

    PowerCube
    Auto
    Rail
    Other

     

    Thanks,
    Tom
    5 Feb 2012, 04:29 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    :-) bang, I agree on outlook for PowerCube sales this year. It looks to me like at least three sales agents will be hawking PCs in at least three U.S. markets and maybe some foreign markets as well. Dantam will likely be working for sales in any markets he can find - before the meter, behind the meter, and off the meter (oil/gas drilling, railroads). Viridity Energy will be hawking its' services (and likely some PCs) in "behind the meter" markets. Rosewater will be marketing in the oil/gas drilling markets.

     

    Norfolk Southern's E-loco development schedule to date has not left me with any warm fuzzies either, at least as far as we know. But, I don't know we can conclude that NS has not purchased PbC batteries this quarter and I see possible indications of increased allocations of resources to E-loco. Plus, JP's review of historical NS999 funding and http://bit.ly/zX1Llu (thx to wtb for that reference) I see a possible rationale for slow rate of development until USG debt limit/deficit spending wars last year (hope of more government funding). Couple that with increasing EPA activism and we have demonstration of a switch in government incentives from use of carrots to use of sticks. TG's talking to other railroads on use of PbCs in E-locos might in effect be interpreted as disclosure of another stick in the competitive arena. But, I speculate acceleration in E-loco development by NS only holds potential for sales of 3k - 6k PbC batteries this year.

     

    One the thousands of battery casings Maya saw in November, it has always seemed to me that one plausible explanation for their presence on sight was the ongoing toll contract for flooded acid battery assembly publicly announced by Axion in late January or early February 2011.
    5 Feb 2012, 09:10 PM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » D-inv: I've never expessed this here before, but I have thought of it.

     

    Behind the tent set up, because of potential inclement weather that late November day last year, I have wondered if TG really actually considered, actually pictured himself, standing before a small mountain of empty battery casings.

     

    While shaking hands, cutting a ribbon, with Viridity Energy.

     

    As hard as he has worked for so many years....
    6 Feb 2012, 12:28 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    Maya, the idea of TG positioning himself against a backdrop of battery casings would indeed make for good PR had the weather been better. And, had substantial PbC battery sales occurred post-PowerCube unveiling, I would say your perception was very much on target. Absent substantial follow on sales, though, I surmise the casings were there for purposes of the toll contract.

     

    But, the thought of battery casings as PR props poses an alternative, distasteful possible explanation -- a planned, misleading PR ploy was thwarted by inclement weather. I like the toll contract explanation better, but ....
    6 Feb 2012, 09:10 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    The PowerCube unveiling was in late November, after the third quarter conference call. We have no idea what happened to sales in the fourth quarter and what is happening to sales in the first quarter.

     

    There is no reason to assume that substantial battery sales didn't happen in the fourth quarter or that they're not happening now. Most companies don't buy large inventories of components for products they don't plan to use within three to six months.

     

    Axion has a rich history of keeping its head down and its mouth shut unless a development is important enough that it requires press release disclosure. It also has a raft of first tier customers and potential customers that want to control the flow of news for reasons of their own. The mere fact that we haven't heard something is not proof that nothing is going on.

     

    We all knew the PowerCube was almost done. Nobody had the vaguest hint that it would immediately be put in service as one of the first two behind the meter frequency regulation resources in the country. Making a PowerCube is easy. Negotiating the interconnect and service contracts for a power resource that will directly impact the grid is a monumental job that typically takes 9 to 18 months.
    6 Feb 2012, 09:46 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    JP, I think we have firm knowledge that fourth quarter "sales" were roughly in line with those of third quarter. The toll contract negotiated in early 2011 remained in effect and auto sales had picked up some. Knowledge regarding sales of PbCs, OTOH, and sales of all kinds this quarter are, as you note, a complete unknown. Unkown that is except for what is implied by events observed and not observed.

     

    IMO, a significant event not observed is public disclosure of extension of the "toll" assemble contract for flooded LA batteries. http://tinyurl.com/89m... from last March reads to me as a one year contract per "The batteries will be branded by the purchaser, and will not carry an Axion Power identification label. Axion anticipates weekly shipments of these batteries in 2011 with a total minimum purchase price of $3.5 million dollars and a potential maximum purchase price of $8 million dollars."

     

    IMO, a significant observed event - $10 million direct placement @ $.35 share - argues that no substantial battery orders had been received, cash was needed sooner rather than later to keep the doors open or to close a deal, or additional capital was needed to avoid acquisition by those 1st tier customers.

     

    Hiring of marketing expertise in the person of Vani Dantam indicates to me that Axion now plans marketing its products to end users as well as to those current and potential "tier 1" customers. Introduction of the PowerCube provides one product consistent with a broader marketing strategy. Whether marketing of PbC batteries further down the food chain is undertaken remains to be seen.
    6 Feb 2012, 11:04 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1902) | Send Message
     
    Hi D-inv,

     

    I think some of us are/were looking a little too much into the Feb. 1st date of the financing and assuming we could use it to predict what Granville is or is not expecting in terms of orders over the next couple months. I think Feb 1st was probably decided quite some time ago in order to avoid anymore investor anxiety about the financing (there was a lot!). Perhaps, he could have gambled and gone with March 1st and perhaps there would have been an order to come along within those 30 days and a more stabilized price point, but for Granville to have predicted that back in Nov. or earlier when setting the date would have been very difficult and risky. Feb 1st allowed a respectable cushion should that deal had fallen through to quickly try and orchestrate some other financing (probably with worse terms). I don't think Granville likes running the business by the seat of his pants like that by picking a later date, at least not from what I have observed.

     

    I think the safety behind making it for $10M on Feb 1st to comfortably get them through this year shows his confidence in being able to demonstrate progress toward commercialization this year, which will result in better financing terms for next year. Hiring Vani confirms that hypothesis more, imo.
    6 Feb 2012, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    Based on my experience representing small companies in stock offerings over the last three decades, I disagree with many of your conclusions but think arguing would be counterproductive. We all have a fairly good grasp of the disclosed facts. How we interpret those facts is a question of individual opinion.
    6 Feb 2012, 11:43 AM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    Jak, working from your hypothesis that "Feb. 1 was probably decided quite some time ago" tends to confirm my inference of no contract does it not? If a significant sales contract was in hand, TG would have held a much stronger hand in negotiating a new capital raise. Without a significant contract in hand and sufficient cash on hand to operate through Q2, it would make no sense to negotiate a binding contract for a capital raise with the terms obtained and no escape clause without penalty. With sales contracts signed after terms were worked out, why proceed with an offering at $.35 share?
    6 Feb 2012, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    When a public company negotiates a capital raise, the investors are never given access to more or better information than the public has.

     

    Even if Tom had a half-dozen contracts in hand, as long as those contracts were not publicly disclosed they could not be used in the negotiation.

     

    The placement agents might have known, but they wouldn't be able to share that information with investors without violating the law.
    6 Feb 2012, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Eye opening article about NIMH as battery of choice in most hybrid vehicles versus Lithium Ion. A123 investors take note.
    http://bit.ly/xC73Ri
    5 Feb 2012, 12:17 AM Reply Like
  • LabTech
    , contributor
    Comments (1781) | Send Message
     
    Bang,
    It's an interesting article but it is also 2 and 1/2 years old. Since then, many of the companies have moved to Li-ion because of those rare earths and the belief that Li-ion is the battery of the future. Not saying they are right, but a lot has changed since Aug of 2009.
    5 Feb 2012, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Didn't realize the date. Thanks for pointing that out!
    5 Feb 2012, 07:51 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    TO ALL

     

    Enjoy the game today, may anyone in a football pool have luck with your numbers. Back to discussions tomorrow, just have fun with guests today..I will be gimping around rooting.

     

    MAP
    5 Feb 2012, 10:44 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Rooting for the G-men today, although I am a long suffering Redskin fan with fond memories of our days in the sun during the '80's. I hate the Patriots. Good Luck.
    5 Feb 2012, 12:08 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    BANG..You will appreciate this. I am a Jets fan but my dad passed away this year and was a lifelong Giants fan. So out of respect ( and hatred for Belichek ) i am rooting for the G men..HOWEVER i am also in a super bowl pool and i ended up with the Patriots minus the spread.

     

    Bet was all through the playoffs.

     

    So i look at it as a win win for me!! Never turn down a deal us headhunters always said....
    5 Feb 2012, 12:51 PM Reply Like
  • eggwis
    , contributor
    Comments (769) | Send Message
     
    MAP (& all Giants' fans)

     

    Congratulations on a great Superbowl viictory!!
    6 Feb 2012, 03:21 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Don't think this has been referenced here recently:

     

    http://bit.ly/zX1Llu

     

    Anyone interested in taking a stab at updating the entry?

     

    Note the reference to
    http://bit.ly/zfL3IZ

     

    Would love to know how much and how they were involved ... as partnering with them may be the way to wider railroad line exposure if NS really isn't really excited about pushing the "agenda."
    5 Feb 2012, 11:37 AM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Speaking of Altoona ...

     

    http://www.nstms.com

     

    Off topic, but for you railroad/history buffs:

     

    http://bit.ly/zGYMd7)
    targeted by the Nazis!

     

    http://bit.ly/xXhAGz
    from 1849!

     

    http://1.usa.gov/y2LEIG

     

    http://on.fb.me/AFcMpz
    5 Feb 2012, 12:08 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    The slide show for "Thoroughbred Mechanical Services" is pretty cool, and shows the depth of what goes on at Altoona Works.

     

    http://bit.ly/yPeFEd

     

    Note some of the other railroads mentioned.
    5 Feb 2012, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    RUNNING ROOM CLARIFICATION

     

    There were some recent questions about how long the proceeds from the new offering would last. The concern arose from a risk factor disclosure that capital resources were adequate through the second quarter but the company would be unable to continue operations beyond year end without additional financing.

     

    After reading the disclosure, I've concluded that it related to Axion's pre-offering financial status and that the new $10 million in financing will push the runway out through mid- to late-2013.

     

    Based on the available information, I don't see another financing round as likely this year unless market acceptance of the PbC is high enough to require significant capital spending.
    6 Feb 2012, 02:34 AM Reply Like
  • bazooooka
    , contributor
    Comments (2350) | Send Message
     
    John,
    Does that mean Axion would have gone into ultra-conserve mode if the 2nd quarter had come and gone without a new offering (and somehow manage to stay afloat 6 more months of fumes). Was there really enough cash to last until December 2012 had we not just raised?

     

    Also, what do you anticipate our current cash position and burn to be as of now?
    6 Feb 2012, 03:09 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    Based on my history with management, I'd bet that they went into conservative mode at the end of September and were ready to go into ultra-conservative mode immediately if the financing fell through.

     

    The disclosures about needing more money got dire in September, but if you compare it with September 2009 this time was a walk in the park. In September 2009 cash got down to $784 K, compared to $4 million last September. Similarly, working capital got down to $283 K, compared to $6.8 million last September. They needed a cash infusion if they wanted to keep spending $2 million a quarter and would most certainly have trimmed spending if the cash didn't arrive in due course.

     

    Guessing at current cash positions is always tough because it's hard to know how working capital items have changed, but I'd expect year end working capital in the $5 million range and current working capital in the $12 to $13 million range with a $10 to $11 million cash balance. With cash operating expenses running at $2 million per quarter (based on $5 million for the first nine months of 2011) I see a clear runway through June 2013 and a stretched runway through December 2013 if there are mis-steps or delays.
    6 Feb 2012, 03:51 AM Reply Like
  • f-kru
    , contributor
    Comments (256) | Send Message
     
    IMO, PowerCube sales are the wildcard in the equation. If Rosewater is successfull in selling a couple of cubes to oil drillers, this might generate enough cash flow to stretch the time line.
    PowerCubes sales are (I guess) a high margin business and, more importantly, are not dependent on somebody elses timeline.
    Now that Axion has a sales team, I'd expect them to generate more revenue from PC sales than from the flooded LA side business in the coming quarters.
    6 Feb 2012, 04:20 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I wouldn't discount the short-term future for conventional battery sales. In the late 90s imports crushed the US battery market and forced a lot of smaller manufacturers out of business. Their plants were auctioned off and the equipment was shipped to places like India and Turkey. Since 2006, there has been a shortage of manufacturing capacity and US manufacturers have been building new plants. There still isn't enough domestic capacity to cover domestic demand and many countries that used to export batteries are clamping down on exports as their home-country demand grows.

     

    Axion has installed and permitted production capacity for about $30 million a year of flooded batteries. Last year somebody gave them a contract for $3.4 to $8 million, which was about as much as a large manufacturer would expect a new supplier to provide. With a year of experience under their belt and recent improvements to the battery plant, it would not surprise me to see flooded sales double or even triple this year. It isn't an issue of kindness, it's an issue of supply and demand and proof that Axion can deliver a quality product on time and within budget.

     

    There's also a ton of underutilized AGM manufacturing capacity. Since the primary reason for the New Castle purchase was to get a company owned AGM line that could be used for PbC prototyping we were never interested in pushing AGM products out the door. If the policy of keeping the AGM line free for prototype fabrication changes, there's another $30 million in underutilized AGM manufacturing capacity that's ready to go to work.

     

    I hope PbC sales ramp fast enough that they can continue to dedicate the AGM line to PbC production, but now that generating revenue is becoming a priority, I don't see them willingly wasting capacity that could be productive.
    6 Feb 2012, 04:40 AM Reply Like
  • f-kru
    , contributor
    Comments (256) | Send Message
     
    Every source of revenue that doesn't limit potential PbC sales would be good I suppose. But I can imagine they want to avoid that the AGM line is bound to a contract when a PbC sale comes along.
    What would you think the potential margins are for flooded LA and AGM production?
    6 Feb 2012, 05:09 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I'd be reluctant to guess. Exide's gross margins are typically 20% of sales while Enersys is closer to 22%. Axion's historic gross margins on product sales have ranged from a low of 8% to a high of 33% with an average of 19%, but those sales have been small enough that historical numbers aren't much use. This year, Axion's gross margin on product sales has been closer to 13%, which is to be expected with a heavy emphasis on contract manufacturing for somebody else.

     

    I'd expect management to shoot for higher margins on PbC products but there's always a tension between what a new product costs to make and what the market is willing to pay.
    6 Feb 2012, 06:01 AM Reply Like
  • f-kru
    , contributor
    Comments (256) | Send Message
     
    Interesting. So a maxed out flooded LA line could bring in up to ~4$mio in profits. That would pay them at least one more robotic line ;-)
    Still I wonder what the margin would be for a couple of PowerCubes manufactured and sold by Axion (or Rosewater). It is a much higher value product and although the third party components like inverters are probably expensive, they can leverage the entire value creation chain.
    6 Feb 2012, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    Additional gross margin is always a good thing, particularly if SG&A, R&D and other operating costs don't increase proportionally. In my experience, however, growing companies usually have a hard time increasing gross profit without finding new ways and places to spend money to further expand the business. Ultimately that's the biggest reason analysts and others focus on top line revenue growth at this stage in a company's life-cycle. Revenue turns into margin which turns into new expansion spending.
    6 Feb 2012, 08:53 AM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (966) | Send Message
     
    hired salesman, secured funding to maintain operations through the year.

     

    if sales were not looming i don't think you hire a salesman.
    6 Feb 2012, 01:43 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    TRAGIC

     

    I think the opposite, if sales WERE looming you don't have to hire an expensive gun...It is when you have no sales to speak of you go get the heavy hitter.

     

    MAP
    6 Feb 2012, 04:40 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I think tragic may be closer to the mark on this one. When you're engaged in testing activities the scientists can work together with little executive oversight. When it comes time to move a product and match a customer's schedule, then you need serious relationship management to make sure the customer is served and happy.
    6 Feb 2012, 04:44 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    tragic, we may be thinking similarly, but I'm not sure. I certainly don't see a justification for hiring expensive marketing talent unless the company has products it is willing to market actively. Dantam's background says he can effectively interface with buyer purchasing agents and buyer technical people.
    6 Feb 2012, 04:57 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    In the past Axion did not have products it was willing to market actively. When Mr. Granville introduced the PowerCube he clearly said "we have a product" and while one could interpret that to only include the PowerCube, I wouldn't classify the PowerCube a product unless the batteries that were essential for its operation were products in their own right. Axion's product is and has always been the PbC battery. If they're ready to sell PowerCubes they're ready to sell the PbC.

     

    Given the number of testing projects that have been ongoing for a couple years now, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that things had moved from testing to selling. I've always figured the first news that testing had been successfully completed would be in the form of a customer order. If it's a customer relationship with a first tier buyer, you'd better have a marketing professional who can manage it.
    6 Feb 2012, 05:22 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    JP...PROVE ME WRONG.

     

    I hope you are right. Show me the sales!!!! I think all are ready for that about now...If he has to hand hold these salespeople we aren't that close yet. imho

     

    MAP
    6 Feb 2012, 06:46 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I'm just thinking about the high level marketing execs I've known over the years. Their jobs were usually focused on serving the needs of a single customer or at best a couple of customers. Key relationships take a lot of care and feeding as they transition from testing to buying and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that help is needed in that realm now.
    7 Feb 2012, 01:00 AM Reply Like
  • f-kru
    , contributor
    Comments (256) | Send Message
     
    Given that Dantam's history is mostly in automotive (see this great comment from bangwhiz: http://bit.ly/z1FZ47), I guess that Mr. Dantam's focus at Axion is on automotive as well.

     

    The PowerCube is in good hands with Rosewater and Viridity. Since Viridity provides/sells the software installed in the cube, I'm assuming they will also help drive sales.
    7 Feb 2012, 04:31 AM Reply Like
  • Futurist
    , contributor
    Comments (2128) | Send Message
     
    MAP,
    TG has been the major handholder of the large OEM customers to date. ( If not him then another key executive that has other functions)

     

    With multiple railroads, multiple auto, Rosewater, and now Utility companies and PowerCube purchasers the need for a sales executive to keep track and build an inside sales force is simply to obvious.
    7 Feb 2012, 06:41 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    That's my read. It was easy for Tom to run lead when it was just in a testing phase but if people are getting ready to start buying it becomes an order of magnitude more work that Tom can't handle on his own with everything else on his plate. Axion has a long history of staffing up with top hands when they're needed, but never before they're needed.
    7 Feb 2012, 08:51 AM Reply Like
  • eggwis
    , contributor
    Comments (769) | Send Message
     
    MAP,

     

    I have to disagree with your position on the hiring of a big gun for sales.

     

    Axion is at a very pivotal point right now, IMO. In the scenario that sales are in hand, they give the company momentum. Hiring a big gun to capitalize on that momentum would be an outstanding decision. You can't just take the perspective of "OK, we've got sales in hand. That buys us some time and a little wiggle room." Should you take that perspective and "rest on your laurels" as it were, it won't be long before you find yourself right back in the very same position that you are in right now. Generally speaking, the success rate of actually closing deals with these "whales" is remarkably small. "Sales in hand" are a savior to be sure, but just as importantly, they are forward/upward momentum and a catalyst for further/future sales. Smart companies capitalize on that and use momentum to catapult them forward.

     

    You have to keep in mind that, until Axion's products are *on the street* for some time and have gained some market acceptance as to their viability, every single prospective sale is a very long sales cycle. At the point we're at right now, in terms of market exposure and acceptance, I don't think it would be realistic to expect any new customer relationship to produce a significant PO in less than a year. Getting seeds planted with prospective customers, getting their wheels turning right now, is critical to the success of the company. That way, by the time we really do have some headline news of solid orders to share, prospective customers are already well down the road of consideration and measurable benefit of the news is far greater.

     

    In the scenario that there are no "sales in hand" presently, it's an even better decision. In that scenario, you have a sales force that has produced nothing of significance. Without something of significance closing in the next 12 months, Axion's prospects for further financing are greatly diminished. Would you think it wise to continue to let the sales force continue down its present path without having their hand held, as you put it? They say the definition of stupidity is continuing to do what you've always done and expecting a better result. I would submit that while they have some great potential on the plate, there ain't any meat on the table.

     

    Finally, hiring top management is often a matter of good timing. If they are really that good, you take them while you can get them. Alternatively, you may be able to hire them at your convenience, but if you are successful, it will likely cost significantly more.

     

    JMO, but I've been in several companies going through this pivotal stage of make or break growth, from juvenile to mature. The best hires we made were capitalistic; seizing the opportunity to bring the very best on board.
    7 Feb 2012, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    EGG

     

    We will see when the orders start flying in or is this a desperate move..I believe we should have some insight in a short period of time, What makes him so valuable OUTSIDE of the auto industry anyway??

     

    I too, have had experince in hiring, I owned an agency. So i just question the timing and motive.To hire just because he was available makes no sense if the product or customers aren't ready.

     

    We shall see.

     

    map
    7 Feb 2012, 05:43 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    Mr. Granville first spoke of building "a modest sales and marketing function to implement the company’s short-term and long-term platform technology business model" in the Q-1 conference call. The recent hiring of Mr. Dantam is just follow through on a process that started last spring. Given the quality of the staff Axion has traditionally brought on to fill comparable posts when help was needed, Mr. Dantam's resume is pretty much what I would have expected to fill out the team.
    8 Feb 2012, 02:15 AM Reply Like
  • 481086
    , contributor
    Comments (3331) | Send Message
     
    fwiw, just a couple more of my two cents.. John's clarification is very good news to hear. And I'm glad TG took the money. Sure, it's possible he could have waited a few months to a more advantageous time (perhaps). But that would be a gamble. In this geopolitical environment, who the hell knows what's coming down the pipe. And the stakes of that gamble would be high. Yeah, it's 28 million more shares, but if you're in his seat, and you know what you know, then I bet you're confident that if the thing works out at all, it's going to work out big, and there will be plenty of pie for everybody, new shares or not. But first you've got to get there. The absolute imperative is to survive in order to get to that point. You don't get cute with an 'okay' deal in front of you, you. take. the. money. "So what" you didn't quite get the terms you wanted--you do what you have to do. Your mission is to take the company over the horizon. This deal keeps that possibility very much alive. Perishing of funds-starvation in the desert is not an option. Getting over the mountains is all that matters. And once there, everything will be right in the end.
    6 Feb 2012, 03:34 AM Reply Like
  • LT
    , contributor
    Comments (4597) | Send Message
     
    Very well stated 481...at this point "survival" first & foremost.

     

    JLP...how did you conclude that they now have enough cash to make it till late 2013? The way I read it, they said by Dec. 2012?
    6 Feb 2012, 03:51 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I don't talk to Tom often because neither of us wants to take the risk that I might learn something I shouldn't know. I did, however, talk to him in March of 2010 shortly after Firefly went into Chapter 7. He told me that Firefly had gotten several financing term sheets, but rejected them because its board didn't like the pricing. He thought that was one of the dumbest corporate decisions he'd ever seen and I agreed.

     

    My first IPO as issuer's counsel taught me the most valuable lesson of my career. We cleared the SEC in early October of 1987. The underwriter had indications of interest for 150% of the deal. At that time, companies usually wanted indications of interest for 200% to 300% to ensure that the stock would trade up from the IPO price for the first few weeks. Since the order book was on the weak side, the client and the underwriter decided to spend two more weeks on the road show before taking the deal to market. During that time, the market crashed, the deal never went to market, the underwriter went bankrupt and so did the client. The lawyer got stiffed for over a hundred grand but that was nothing in the overall scheme of things.

     

    The worst mistake a manager can make is refusing needed cash that's sitting on the table because he doesn't like the price. All I can do is thank God that Tom understands that reality because I viewed the need for additional cash as the last major collateral risk. Now it's all up to the PbC.
    6 Feb 2012, 04:07 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1902) | Send Message
     
    LT, Let me try..

     

    Keep in mind it was a prospectus for the investors of the financing so this went to the investors *before* the financing went through. So, it could only talk about their current financial status not what their financial status *would* be if they did get the financing.

     

    I re-read it myself yesterday and concluded the exact same thing as JP, so now that he has confirmed it I feel bold enough to write how I read it. I read it like this...current financing was enough to continue ongoing operations and capital expenditures as they presently are through Q2 2012, but they could have remained a concern until the end of the year if they significantly curtailed present ongoing operations, but beyond the end of the year without the new financing they would have needed to "wind down the business".

     

    I concluded the new financing added ~12 months onto the June 2012 date to continue ongoing operations and capital expenditures, pushing us well into 2013 before any additional financing would be needed.
    6 Feb 2012, 07:47 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    Well said Jakurtz.

     

    A prospectus for an offering always speak to the people who are considering an investment. They're the ones who must be told "without your money we only have five months of running room in our budget, although we can stretch that to eleven months if we go into cash conservation mode."

     

    If I had been the author of the prospectus, I probably would have included an estimate of the period of time that the proceeds from the offering would satisfy cash Axion's requirements based on current budgets, but that disclosure would have been a departure from the norm, rather than something that was expected or required.
    6 Feb 2012, 08:26 AM Reply Like
  • tripleblack
    , contributor
    Comments (13440) | Send Message
     
    "Now its all up to the PbC".

     

    Sums it up nicely, I think. Sure, one needs the detail that supports that simple sentence, but that really is where the crux of the matter lies.

     

    As complex as much of that "detail" might be, the business case is quite simple and comprehensible.
    6 Feb 2012, 08:51 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Many believed it was all up to the PbC after the $26M capital raise. The PbC can't sell itself, so I believe it is up to the company to sell it. Buyers will have a range of things to consider including how long will Axion be in business? Theoretically, the battery could work longer than Axion can stay in business. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, I just think it is up to a hell of a lot more than just the PbC.
    6 Feb 2012, 01:40 PM Reply Like
  • wtblanchard
    , contributor
    Comments (2388) | Send Message
     
    Good point, and I think we should talk for each potential application more about return on investment and how fast that happens.

     

    If your PbC system X pays for itself quickly, you're much less concerned about how long the company stays in business.

     

    Of course for an oil driller, how do you put a price on good PR for being "Green" for a change?

     

    Related concept: how fast could you replace a PbC application if you had to, and money wasn't the driving factor? How much down time and expense might you possibly incur? Until an application "new" PbC applicaton is proven extensively, that's an issue you have to consider.
    6 Feb 2012, 02:11 PM Reply Like
  • DaveT
    , contributor
    Comments (171) | Send Message
     
    As I doubt a CC question about margins would get an answer, as an alternative starting point, has anyone got any idea what the likely manufacturing costs of a carbon electrode (BOM, labour, maintenance, power?) are, or have an idea based on any statements made about relative cost vs pure Pb?
    6 Feb 2012, 08:59 AM Reply Like
  • jakurtz
    , contributor
    Comments (1902) | Send Message
     
    My feeling is that it is still too early for them to drill down to specific costs. They probably know what it is costing them now to make the prototypes and demonstration units, but I doubt it would be a very good indicator of what it will cost them once they reach commercialization. You will have economies of scale, refined/better manufacturing processes, more efficient uses of labor and shift hours. I think at this stage they could estimate (which they have done by stating it is about 1/3 cost of lithium and ultracapacitors and in the same ballpark but slightly more than AGM/VRLA) but more specific estimations to stockholders could muddle negotiations with existing battery manufacturers and OEM's as to what their final cost will be. This is again something I feel is better for down the road once revenue has begun ramping up and they have at least two feet into the commercialization process.
    6 Feb 2012, 09:52 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    We don't even have a clear idea of what a PbC will cost, much less what the bill of materials might be. In a July 2010 vintage presentation, Axion estimated the generic cost of stop-start implementation with VRLA at $350 and with PbC at $500, leaving a net spread of $150.

     

    Since the most commonly quoted price for a VRLA battery is in the $125 range, I've always assumed that $125 of the spread was the incremental cost of a PbC battery and $25 of the spread was the cost of different electronics. These are meat axe type numbers, but they're about as close as we're likely to get for a while.

     

    I think it's highly unlikely that Axion will ever disclose it's bill of materials or electrode fabrication costs. I've certainly never seen that kind of information published by another battery manufacturer.
    6 Feb 2012, 10:01 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Releasing cost data for potential buyers to negotiate from is not a very smart idea. However, 10Q's will give people enough data to make some reasonable guesstimates on COGS. Right now there is also a lot of plant under utilization and R&D expenses thrown on top of the numbers.

     

    Until the company is a true manufacturing company we won't know very much more than TG's estimates IMHO. We are also on the extreme left hand side of the learning curve on producing the PbC at the lowest cost. They will get smarter as time goes by.
    6 Feb 2012, 11:09 AM Reply Like
  • bangwhiz
    , contributor
    Comments (2235) | Send Message
     
    Looking at the price action today I can't help but wonder if some of those newly acquired shares are being sold for a quick 25% return on their money? I would think if that were the case selling at .45 would be about as low as they would go. Who the hell knows why anyone would sell for .45 cents anyway?.I suppose you could eventually play on the house's money that way with persistent selling at this level, but it is unlikely my speculation is correct anyway.
    6 Feb 2012, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • WDD
    , contributor
    Comments (56) | Send Message
     
    Greetings All!

     

    I’ve been thinking about some of the growing pains we are experiencing with regard to Maya’s Concentrators.

     

    One issue that comes to mind is that every day potential new Axionistas are discovering this conversation and undertaking their AXPW due diligence with widely varying levels of effort. Some will read every JP article and every Concentrator. But that approach is rapidly becoming a tall order, as many of us know it can be a challenge just keeping up with new posts never mind starting from the beginning. A few newbies ask basic questions that, while reasonable, have nonetheless been well addressed in previous APCs and thus can be an annoyance to the members who have already plowed that ground.

     

    I want to float to this community the suggestion that we initiate an Axion-Wiki as a repository for the hard information already known, thus keeping Concentrator editions substantially focused upon new discussions. This would be a treasure-trove to the new investor, and can also help the rest of us in those conversations that begin, “If I recall correctly, an earlier Concentrator had a mention of TG saying something about….” Finding previous information in the Concentrators requires either a good memory or a brute-force search. In contrast, the information in a wiki is topically arranged and searchable. So a wiki can serve as an idexed community notebook, and a source to which we can refer new Axionistas with basic questions.

     

    But here is the important part—wikis work best when they benefit from widespread contribution of content. Crowd-sourced wikis tend to be both comprehensive and accurate, a wonderful example of many hands making light work. Wikis that are one person’s labor of love are usually severely limited in scope, become outdated, and are eventually abandoned. So the starting point is to ask this group if there is enough individual interest to count on mass participation. So, whatcha’ think?

     

    One obvious home for such a wiki is within the website that Bangwhiz is curating, but I don’t want to just drop this load on his shoulders without recruitng some help, as his responsibilities are already hefty. There are a few free wiki-host sites, and several paid ones. Has anyone here launched a wiki before?

     

    A final comment: An active wiki is remarkably robust in the face of vandals and malcontents. The ability to “revert” a topic to an earlier point means that any effort to disrupt the wiki just isn’t worth it, as any member of the community can easily undo the nonsense. I think this aspect makes a wiki superior to a threaded-discussion forum for our purposes (thinking of the astounding blather and venom on the Brand-X board as a contrasting example).

     

    Offered for the good of the order.
    WDD.
    6 Feb 2012, 11:25 AM Reply Like
  • Jon Springer
    , contributor
    Comments (4152) | Send Message
     
    Thumbs upping the Wiki idea...

     

    And also marking my last look at this concentrator for a wee bit as I jump on 22 hours of travels... looking forward to seeing how many entries there are between now and then... putting the over/under at 140.
    6 Feb 2012, 11:32 AM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I think Bang Whiz has been working on a concept for that kind of basic information aggregator. I'll bet he'd love some help if you want to volunteer.
    6 Feb 2012, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • WDD
    , contributor
    Comments (56) | Send Message
     
    @JP: “I think Bang Whiz has been working on a concept for that kind of basic information aggregator. I'll bet he'd love some help if you want to volunteer.”

     

    Yep, that’s actually what I’m trying to do. I had a PM-exchange with BangWhiz two days ago and told him I’m willing to help (while also informing him that my HTML skills are very thin). I think Bang’s task is a heavy one, hence my suggestion for a distributed wiki approach. But before pouring a bunch of energy into it, Step 1 is an attempt to discover if others are likely to make use of / contribute to such an effort.

     

    If we set aside for a moment the large body of discussion devoted to community digestion of information, the vast bulk of the “hard stuff” in these Concentrators comes from a small minority of contributors. If we make a distinction between “Miners” and “Refiners”, I’m a tiny little player in the latter category—I’m still learning a lot. A successful wiki will require participation from lots of us little fish who notice useful stuff here and there, and a few big ones who’ve forgotten more about chemistry/manufacturing /securities law/marketing/etcetera than the rest of use will ever know.

     

    But back to your point—with or without a wiki, Bang’s information aggregator effort is potentially valuable to the Axionists, and will likely benefit from some more horses hitched to the wagon.
    6 Feb 2012, 01:23 PM Reply Like
  • John Petersen
    , contributor
    Comments (29553) | Send Message
     
    I'll certainly be happy to help edit history and other topics that are uniquely within my competence, but I'd rather have the first draft originate with others because I don't want the end product to just be another Petersen work product. Particularly on a wiki it's important to me that I be one worker bee of many, rather than an instigator.
    6 Feb 2012, 01:38 PM Reply Like
  • WDD
    , contributor
    Comments (56) | Send Message
     
    I think that is a very reasonable approach!

     

    Frankly, I think one of the most valuable initial contributions you could make in a start-up wiki would just be to toss up a handful of key topic titles that could serve as the hooks on which others could hang information as they (re)discover it. Completely aside from the tremendous depth and breadth of your knowledge on the topic, you also know which questions you have had to address over and over--those would likely make good wiki topics.
    6 Feb 2012, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (966) | Send Message
     
    wiki is a good idea that might take some of the burden off of the best contributors and maya. maya's FAQ page is a good idea too. information density is almost as important as the quality of information (esp. when that density is manageable).
    6 Feb 2012, 05:54 PM Reply Like
  • D-inv
    , contributor
    Comments (3927) | Send Message
     
    :-) tragic, did I just hear you say a "Cliffnotes" on Axion would be nice?
    6 Feb 2012, 06:39 PM Reply Like
  • Mathieu Malecot
    , contributor
    Comments (966) | Send Message
     
    more of a all roads lead to axpw approach is what i was thinking.
    7 Feb 2012, 12:18 AM Reply Like
  • eggwis
    , contributor
    Comments (769) | Send Message
     
    WDD,

     

    I'd be very happy to contribute where and what I can. Looks like more back surgery is forthcoming, so I'll likely have some time on my hands that I'm not accustomed to.
    7 Feb 2012, 12:26 AM Reply Like
  • Mayascribe
    , contributor
    Comments (9597) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Let's move on to the next Concentrator:

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    6 Feb 2012, 12:03 PM Reply Like
  • Metals are Precious
    , contributor
    Comments (713) | Send Message
     
    Grabbed a few more shares to average down at 44 cents...Still LURKING but have an appointment with the dentist for post via root canal. Expect to see it bounce around 44 cents for a while..

     

    But what do i know...So i put a GTC order in for 40 cents just in case!!!

     

    Later guys as i wish i could make the parade but leg is limiting me to almost no life !!

     

    MAP
    6 Feb 2012, 12:55 PM Reply Like
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