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forzagrifo
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I'm a private investor focusing on China stocks trading on the US and HK exchanges.
  • CCME Shanghai Bus Companies Parent-Subsid Structure 12 comments
    Mar 3, 2011 8:42 AM | about stocks: CCME



    * Note: only inter-city bus related subsidiaries are shown for Shanghai Jiaoyun Holdings Co. Ltd.

    Explanation: The chart clearly identifies two companies in the affiliated group that have about 1800 buses -- the very number that CCME says that it has with Shanghai Bus Industrial (a.k.a. Shanghai Bashi). This excludes Magnolia, the company with the tan buses that were in the MW video.

    References:

    Analyst report on Shanghai Bus Public Transportation (Group) Co. Ltd. (Sep 2010):
    www.shxsj.com/uploadfile/%C9%CF%BA%A3%B0...

    600741.sh 2010 interim report:
    www.sse.com.cn/sseportal/cs/zhs/scfw/gg/...

    600676.sh 2010 interim report:
    static.sse.com.cn/cs/zhs/scfw/gg/ssgs/20...

    Annoucement of JV establishment of Shanghai Jiaoyun Bus Passenger Transportation (Group) Co. Ltd.:
    www.guosen.com.cn/webd/public/infoDetail...

    Shanghai Jiaoyun Bus Passenger Transportation (Group) Co. Ltd. Company website:
    61.152.242.65/cygs/servlet/Srv?action_co...

    Shanghai Baiyulan (aka Magnolia) commenced operation in Dec 2009:
    61.152.242.65/cygs/servlet/Srv?action_co...

    Shanghai Jiaoyun Holdings Co. Ltd. Company website:
    www.jygf.cn/cn/index/


    Stocks: CCME
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Comments (12)
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  • Kharma
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    Nice work!
    3 Mar 2011, 09:10 AM Reply Like
  • wctbills
    , contributor
    Comments (11) | Send Message
     
    You are awesome! =)
    3 Mar 2011, 09:20 AM Reply Like
  • wctbills
    , contributor
    Comments (11) | Send Message
     
    I called SH Bashi today too... and came up with a very simple picture too.

     

    But your work is sublime. I'll reference your blog at my site... hope that's cool.

     

    =)
    3 Mar 2011, 09:22 AM Reply Like
  • forzagrifo
    , contributor
    Comments (9) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Thanks. Please feel free to reference this blog.
    3 Mar 2011, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • beachcm65
    , contributor
    Comments (11) | Send Message
     
    MW - what do you have to say about this? Can your work be trusted?
    3 Mar 2011, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • BullMarket
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    Amazing! Bravo!!!
    -Andrew
    3 Mar 2011, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • tohackornothack
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    the chart is not true,
    Magnolia belongs to Jiaoyun Bashi.

     

    Sorry, this is a far worse spin than Muddy Water's.
    3 Mar 2011, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • beachcm65
    , contributor
    Comments (11) | Send Message
     
    Why don't you provide a link to support your assertion?

     

    Do you debate when Magnolia was established as well?
    3 Mar 2011, 07:38 PM Reply Like
  • jwangatusa
    , contributor
    Comments (14) | Send Message
     
    Actually, see this link
    alibaba.stockstar.com/...

     

    It says Magnolia is a sub company of JiaoYun's Share holding group, JiaoYun owns about 41.5% share. (search this on that document 上海白玉兰高速客运有限公司, the last column is the share own) And belongs to JiaoYun group, JiaoYun owns about 41.2% of the share company (the other part owner is the Shanghai Bus company)

     

    It also says the Shanghai JiaYun Bus Group is JiaoYun Share group's sub company and it owns about 41.5% (search 上海交运巴士客运(集团)有限公司).

     

    On the other hand, JiaoYun group likes to make very complex structure, so very likely, Shanghai JiaYun Bus Group owns a small % of share in Magnolia's company. Although I did not bother to check since JiaoYun group is public company, but the Bus group is not. But you can see a document that show the structure of the big company and sub Bus Group company to one of the sub company of the parent company (JiaoYun Group) at here www.docin.com/p-751002..., it is the South Terminal sub company, it show a very complex structure at page 3 when the Parent company bought out the South Terminal company, Parent company own 41.5% share of the Bus Group, and Own 35% of the South Terminate group, than the sub Bus group own

     

    Both the parent companies JiaoYun and Shanghai Bashi are own by the same kind of government units.

     

    WCBills in his blog says he call someone in Bashi, and has a picture that show Magnolia's company belong to the subcompany Shanghai JiaYun Bus Group. Both picture are right but only reflect partial truth.

     

    So, there are companies and sub-companies, and main company will control certain part, and sub-company will handle other part.

     

    For most of the time, the sub-Bus company (JiaoYun) is acting as the boss company of Magnolia, but they actually are sister brother company more close to the picture file posted.

     

    So, if the deal say Bashi上海巴士公交有限公司 group , WM need to talk to right company, not just go to web-site and claim since web-site say this company is the sub-company and that handles all the long distance, it is the company to talk to.

     

    I am pretty sure if anyone can really figure out who can say what by a simple diagram of this kind of complex company structure, it will be really amazing. Compare to that, most of the US based Chinese company are kind of simple. Both this picture, and the picture WCBills get from Bashi company looks represent some kind of reality.

     

    If based on the share owned, this chart is correct. If based on how they lay out operational in the overall structure, you may not be able to get any diagram.

     

    Which means, even in a well establish place like Shanghai, CCME can still have a good growth potential.

     

    If you look at the WM's bus picture on Mongolia, the bus in JiaoYun actually does not play anything except the government's order, if CCME do a free installation, and free contain, and bus fee, it is very very good deal even if CCME will cut a good % of profit from it.
    3 Mar 2011, 09:19 PM Reply Like
  • forzagrifo
    , contributor
    Comments (9) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Great analysis. The sub company structure is indeed very complex. I updated my chart showing the relationship between Jiaoyun Bus and Magnolia (thanks to WCTBills). I didn't change the other sub companies of Jiaoyun Holdings because they are not important in the context of proving MW had looked at the wrong company.

     

    I agree 100% that even in a place like Shanghai, there's a lot of room to expand into.
    4 Mar 2011, 12:53 AM Reply Like
  • zorrba
    , contributor
    Comments (411) | Send Message
     
    toha - it's just more lying pumpers lying charts what do you expect?
    3 Mar 2011, 06:56 PM Reply Like
  • slyestjester51
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    Congratulations on your great work!
    3 Mar 2011, 07:51 PM Reply Like
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