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I could put on this bio my education, work experience, investment strategy, and a nice thin (if I can find one) picture of me in a suit looking *smart*. Sorry but that's not my intent here. Sure I invest, help family make financial decisions, and make a ton of mistakes along the way. But my time... More
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Interesting Times For All Commodities And Investments!! CHAPTER 4......
  • Interesting Times For All Commodities And Investments!! CDC, WHO, MACRO AND POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS 53 comments
    Jul 26, 2013 2:10 PM

    JOHN W and SOUTHGENT have an interesting debate going on that I think should have it's own chapter. So here it is !!

    What started out as a small group discussing anything related to investing has grown extremely educational over the last few months.

    We have Authors, Financial Advisors, Seasoned investors, Experts in specific fields, and just the average Joe pitching in...

    Folks.. we are growing and posters like it. If you are new to investing then this site is for you.

    Here is the link to the READING MATERIAL !!http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/5038891-interesting-times/1998262-interesting-times-for-all-commodities-and-investments-reading-material

    HERE IS THE LINK TO THE PORFOLIO EXERCISE !!http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/5038891-interesting-times/2054352-interesting-times-for-all-commodities-and-investments-portfolio-exercise

    HERE IS THE LINK TO THE NEW CHAPTER CALLED CONSPIRACY THAT WILL SUPERCEDE THIS ONE !!http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/5038891-interesting-times/2075322-interesting-times-for-all-commodities-and-investments-the-conspiracy-2

    I am going to be the first one to admit that I haven't a clue when or if Gold and Silver will ever take off in price. I invested thinking they will though. Additionally I don't see much coverage or articles pertaining to the other commodities. So I started a blog where every commodity, and every investment is on the table for discussion. Even political questions. I only ask that you be courteous!!

    Someone posted the difference between being smart, foolish, and a moron. Well I have been all of the above and I will "man up" and admit it! However I came away from those experiences with both battle scars and knowledge.

    For years I have been reading basically any day now Gold and Silver will explode. I am by far a gold or silver bug. Yet somehow the can gets kicked down the road and I live to learn another lesson. Then Sprott's ETF'S (NYSEARCA:PSLV) are talked about as being safer then others (NYSEARCA:GLD) and (NYSEARCA:SLV).

    With all the QE'S basically not creating any new jobs what will be the consequences in the future?. Will we be "CYPRUSED "? Are we in a serious stock market bubble? Obviously we read daily about these concerns but what about other INVESTMENTS? Here is where most of us are uninformed and relish an education.

    Individual stocks are fine to discuss as well. All of us know that commodities should only be a % of your portfolio. I owned (NASDAQ:PSEC) and liked the dividend. Others may not ! So please feel free to entertain your picks and why!

    REE'S have been an interest for a few of us over the last couple of years. I had exposure to Lynas (OTCPK:LYSCF). Some posters might have questions about this group as well.

    If you disagree with a post please bring proof and display your argument. If you agree with a post, find one interesting, or have questions please feel free to respond. We must remember were all in this together. So if you want to talk politics and how it affects everyday life, fine with me!!

    Now if some have an opinion on Copper, Zinc, Palladium, etc. Do not hesitate to post that. Most of us might not understand the post but I am sure we'll be open to learning. Lumber might interest someone and I would like to learn why I should invest in it. PLEASE bracket any symbol as it also allows a reader to click on it and get some data.

    My part time job is a college and high school official so I can sit here and referee all day long. I honestly hope that ALL will be professional with their comments. So lets see who comes on board. Looking forward to what can become a nicely knit group of diversified investors.

    I have invited a few Authors whose work I admire to bring their expertise to the forum here as. Eric, Hebba, Doug to name a few, in no particular order, will drop in once in a while to voice their opinions. Please feel free to ask your favorite Authors to join in the discussion.

    These are highly recommended people that I suggest you follow as well. I have learned a ton from them and find their work both challenging and engaging. Two areas that I hope inspire people who normally don't post to now feel free to do so !!

    Now I also feel compelled to encourage the use of the like button. It is human nature that once someone posts and see the like button add up they will feel they made a valid point. Upon that feeling they will post again! So if you do like what someone posted, either a question or an answer PLEASE use it ! It might help our core grow exponentially as well

    LURKERS , we are waiting for you to post here too!

    We are living in some very INTERESTING TIMES !!

    Disclosure: I have no positions in any stocks mentioned, and no plans to initiate any positions within the next 72 hours.

    Additional disclosure: Let the information flow !!!

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  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » This is something I know little about so I appreciate some comments here on it !

     

    Thanks..
    26 Jul 2013, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » John commented!!

     

    "Concern is what can happen if the World Health Org declares a level six epidemic for some type of flu, and then national emergencies and exec orders are declared and you are told report for some type of shot. I will refuse treatment.

     

    The 2009-2010 swine flu epidemic was a bogus epidemic. Won't go into it here, but they may eventually make some vaccines mandatory and the Health Service Corps will make it happen. "
    26 Jul 2013, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » SOUTH COMMENTED

     

    "John: You are now raising a different concern from Doctors voluntarily joining the Ready Reserve to provide care during national emergencies or to having their student loans forgiven by agreeing to provide medical care for years in some isolated unserved area.

     

    I recall only one mandatory vaccine program, and that was the polio shot that I received without a say in the matter back in grade school which was more than 50 years ago. Possibly the swine flue vaccination was mandatory in 1976, but many just ignored it anyway.

     

    If something like the Spanish Flu comes around again, which killed tens of millions after WWI, there may be a mandatory order which many will ignore. Maybe they will die or maybe not.

     

    Swine influenza - Wikipedia
    http://bit.ly/14R8RbV "
    26 Jul 2013, 02:15 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Now can either you explain in basic language what the hell you guys are talking about?

     

    I am clueless to this area as I am sure are quite a few. So a basic background for this would really be appreciated!!

     

    A huge thanks!!
    26 Jul 2013, 02:17 PM Reply Like
  • southgent1951
    , contributor
    Comments (3002) | Send Message
     
    IT: You left out some of the comments. It started with John expressing concern about a federal program that he called the "7th uniformed (as in military) service branch of the US Govt."

     

    I then made the following comment:

     

    John: The National Health Service Corps is a program that "repays educational loans and provides scholarships to primary care health care providers who practice in areas of the country that have too few health care professionals to serve people who live there."

     

    http://1.usa.gov/138u7bm

     

    The program was established in 1970 under the Nixon administration.

     

    "Established in 1970, the National Health Service Corps, administered by HHS’ Health Resources and Services Administration, has provided health care to communities across the country by supporting more than 42,000 primary health care practitioners over its 40-year history."

     

    He then went to another topic called the "Ready Reserves":

     

    "The "Reserves" can be called to "active duty" by the surgeon general. It is no longer what it used to be. Under the Affordable Care Act - Obamacare it has been transformed into a medical military service under HHS and the President, to "treat" us whether we want to be treated or not during a time of "national emergency.""

     

    I then made the following comment:

     

    "John: I believe that participation in the Ready Reserve for Doctors, Dentists and Nurses is voluntary:

     

    "The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, enacted March 23, 2010, gave the USPHS the authority to create the Ready Reserve Corps, a new component of the USPHS Commissioned Corps.

     

    The purpose of the Ready Reserve Corps will be to have additional Commissioned Corps personnel available on short notice (similar to the other uniformed services' reserve programs) to assist full-time Commissioned Corps personnel to meet both routine public health and emergency response missions. Prior to the passage of this law, the USPHS Commissioned Corps did not have a reserve component to call upon in this fashion. The Ready Reserve Corps members will perform duties for assigned periods of time as opposed to full-time Corps members who are on extended active duty. Joining the Ready Reserve Corps is voluntary; however, future members of the Ready Reserve Corps join knowing that they can be called at any time to serve in times of national need."

     

    http://1.usa.gov/12pf9z9

     

    So, for example, if the really big earthquake hit San Francisco again, causing hundreds of thousands of casualties in need of medical attention, those volunteers could be activated for service.

     

    I do not see the problem.

     

    If you do not want medical attention, then just refuse it. It is not like those doctors are going to put worms in your head against your will."

     

    John then started to discuss mandatory vaccination programs.

     

    He then referred in his last statement citing a CBS news story about the 2009 Swine Flu which was not a mandatory vaccination. He also referred me to some sites that seem to cater to his opinions on the subject.
    I have no desire to join him in his rabbit hole. I have far more important and serious real world concerns, and would not devote another second of my time discussing with anyone about a potential bogus and mandatory vacinnation program that may arise at some future date, which many will just ignore anyway.
    26 Jul 2013, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » @SOUTH

     

    I am sure I missed a ton of stuff to copy here. Just wanted to get you 2 started again. If you want to start all over for us that would be great !

     

    Better then reading this in a book. I love cliff notes !
    26 Jul 2013, 03:08 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    I respect South's wishes to not go down this rabbit hole.

     

    We were not arguing. I was not challenging him on anything, I was just expressing personal concerns I had about new institutions that were coming out of the Obamacare act or the so called Affordable Health Act.

     

    I started when I originally made a comment in Chapter 28 about Obama's upcoming speeches and I expressed concern that Obama may try to spring GRA "gov't guaranteed retirement accounts" and I also cited code from the Obamacare bill that establishes an Active duty and Reserve Health Service Corps.

     

    From there I made comments on the purpose of the Health Corps which is structured just like the Army and is actually a uniformed military service or military branch, but under HHS.

     

    I wrote to South:
    "[My] Concern is what can happen if the World Health Org declares a level six epidemic for some type of flu, and then national emergencies and exec orders are declared and you are told report for some type of shot. I will refuse treatment.

     

    The 2009-2010 swine flu epidemic was a bogus epidemic. Won't go into it here, but they may eventually make some vaccines mandatory and the Health Service Corps will make it happen"

     

    I added a link to a CBS story that indicated that the CDC was using bogus numbers for H1N1 in 2009. They were the only mainstream media article that exposed that the CDC used bogus numbers to report the number of H1N1 cases. When state health department did tests on people coming into the ERs for flu and the tests were negative for H1N1, (like 90% negative), the CDC told the states in July 2009 to stop doing testing because "we have already established that it is a pandemic."

     

    The real reason was that the tests done by the state health departmets contradicted the CDC pandemic fear-mongering. They were concerned that all the swine flu vaccine they made was not going to be used. They continued to "sell" the pandemic, even though only 5 to 10% of people coming into ERs actually tested positive for HiN1.
    Here is the link:
    http://cbsn.ws/13ibz3M

     

    I also referenced the national vaccine plan, that sounds like conspiracy theory, but it is a plan published by HHS.

     

    http://1.usa.gov/14RfPxu

     

    The really bothersome thing about the plan is the extent of the participants or stakeholders. It is a confession that government, the WHO, and BigPharma are all in bed together.
    It is amazingly pervasive:
    http://1.usa.gov/14RfPxs

     

    Going back to the National Health Service Corps military branch of HHS, they would "enforce" WHO and CDC directives if the WHO declares a level 6 pandemic. Under a "national emergency" the president could issue an order for everyone to get some kind of vaccine. The Health Service Corps would carry it out.

     

    Once again, South and I were just doing a little back and forth commenting, and I understand that he may have no interest in this topic. No problem.

     

    I could go on, but don't want to make it too long.

     

    Maybe there will be additional questions or comments.
    JW
    26 Jul 2013, 03:31 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » @JW

     

    Please feel free to go on as long as you like. I am learning all of this for the first time so I bet others are as well.

     

    It is entirely up to you as I created a chapter for a reason..
    26 Jul 2013, 03:40 PM Reply Like
  • southgent1951
    , contributor
    Comments (3002) | Send Message
     
    IT: We all have more serious things to worry about. I would just add this observation.

     

    Tens of millions died in Spanish Flue epidemic after WWI. I mentioned in my blog two relatives from the same family who died, a daughter first and then her mother who tried to care for her. The mother was my great-grandmother:

     

    http://bit.ly/TRV1h8

     

    When you have those kind of historical events, the CDS and WHO will often overreact now. I would prefer those organizations, who have the best of intentions in my view, to overreact than to be flatfooted as an epidemic spreads worldwide.

     

    The Spanish Flue epidemic could be prevented now with a quick assessment of the gene and the development of a vaccine. Those types of epidemics will come and go.

     

    For now, I voluntary take a flu shot every year. If there was a mandatory vaccination program, I would probably comply after doing some research but the odds of that happening are small and may not happen for my remaining lifetime.
    26 Jul 2013, 03:48 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    IT
    I understand South's position on vaccines as we are led by govt and pharma advertising to have unconditional faith in vaccines. We are not supposed to even question what we have been told about vaccines.

     

    As for the flu vaccine, I would not ever get it because at best it is only close to 50% effective and secondly whatever immunity it confers lasts less than one year. Why bother? There are associated risks from it. Guillian Barr syndrome, damage from foreign DNA, damage from adjuvants in the vaccine like ethyl mercury or aluminum both metals that can cause brain deterioration.

     

    If you have an adverse reaction, your doctor and the vaccine manufacturer will never associate (or disavow) the vaccine with the reaction. You are on your own. Burden of proof is on the person harmed.

     

    If you do some reading on the "Spanish Flu Epidemic" you will find that ground zero or the origination point was on US military bases where returning soldiers were vaccinated. Of course the official story or version has been sanitized.

     

    Also the Polio vaccine of the 1950's was know to contain SV-40 (Simian virus) AKA monkey virus, that is know to cause several kinds of cancer in humans -bone, brain, lung and epithelioma which was rare before 1950 but increased about 100% after the polio vaccine. SV-40 now infects about 25% of the US population and is found in people who never received the polio vaccine as it is able to pass from mother to child. Know of anyone who died of lung cancer that didn't smoke?

     

    The makers of the vaccine knew of the monkey virus and released the vaccine anyway.

     

    Thinking about where this discussion could lead there were two threads:
    1. Obama agenda as in Affordable Health Care act _ that's where this discussion came from. There was the reference to the Homeland Security Youth Corps graduation of first classhttp://http://bit.ly/1aJRoSv and also this Health Service corps.

     

    See any pattern in these "Corps" that are being created under Obama. What are they planning for? Would this affect our investments or the dollar?

     

    2. The current discussion, Swine flu, Health Corps, Vaccines. I know this is "rabbit hole stuff" but there may be substance to it.

     

    SV-40 is real
    26 Jul 2013, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • southgent1951
    , contributor
    Comments (3002) | Send Message
     
    John: I will discuss your factual claims only with regard to the Spanish Flu:

     

    Your Statement:

     

    "If you do some reading on the "Spanish Flu Epidemic" you will find that ground zero or the origination point was on US military bases where returning soldiers were vaccinated. Of course the official story or version has been sanitized."

     

    There is no conspiracy to sanitize anything. There is still a considerable amount of scientific disagreement . One view is that it started at Fort Riley Kansas. Whether or not the soldiers had been vaccinated, the vaccination would not have worked against that flu strain.

     

    Only now, many decades later, have scientists decoded the genetic makeup of that virus. This was done in part by digging up some graves one of which was an eskimo buried in the permafrost:

     

    http://1.usa.gov/1aNw8LB

     

    An good factual article about this particular pandemic can be found at the main Wikipdia article that I cited earlier:

     

    http://bit.ly/1aNw7HL

     

    There is also a good book on this particular pandemic:

     

    The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History
    http://amzn.to/1aNw8LC

     

    A history of major flu pandemics can be found at this source:

     

    http://1.usa.gov/1aNw8LE
    26 Jul 2013, 05:06 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    South
    I agree on that book, The Great Influenza. I actually read about 1/3 two years ago, but didn't have time to finish. I intend to finish it. (I clicked on your link and Amazon has used ones starting at 1 cent. I think I'll get it) It is disturbing that they exhumed a victim of the 1918 flu pandemic for the purpose of recreating or reviving the virus. Did you read how US researchers developed a way for the bird flu virus (50% fatal) to be transmitted by airborne means. It is normally only spread by direct contact. Now they know how to spread it by airborne.

     

    That is my problem with government research. Do they want to weaponize it? Why develop a way for a fatal disease to be spread by air?

     

    My attitude to "official" explanations, as in the 1918 Influenza case now is to not accept them just because they are issued by some government agency. Sorry, but they do not have my trust and confidence anymore.
    26 Jul 2013, 06:00 PM Reply Like
  • User 7415181
    , contributor
    Comments (691) | Send Message
     
    I (laughingly) work in health care. I will try to address some of JW's concerns. And then beg off as it's Friday night.

     

    "I also cited code from the Obamacare bill that establishes an Active duty and Reserve Health Service Corps."

     

    I have not studied up on the bill. I do not think having a force of medical professionals as volunteers or even utilizing military and other medical professionals to respond to a real emergency would be a bad thing.

     

    "From there I made comments on the purpose of the Health Corps which is structured just like the Army and is actually a uniformed military service or military branch, but under HHS."

     

    It is structured like the military. I gave serious consideration to joining the Comissioned Corps during my last year of nursing school, but became pissed off with the bearucratic nightmare of trying to find out what the Exact requirements were for joining - I was told two days before Christmas that I had to get a dental exam to make the deadline by Jan 1st - I said !@#$ it and emailed them such. Then ICE started emailing me job proposals.

     

    The CC is basically a temp agency for various health care professions for government agencies. And if I had gone through and the only agency at the time willing to take me on was ICE, then I probably would have been stationed in Brownsville giving TB tests to illegal immigrants that were rounded up to be deported. So I'm glad I didn't go that route.

     

    "I wrote to South:
    "[My] Concern is what can happen if the World Health Org declares a level six epidemic for some type of flu, and then national emergencies and exec orders are declared and you are told report for some type of shot. I will refuse treatment."

     

    The WHO is a joke. In America, the CDC will do it's own thing as it wants the cred. And that is who the administration (no matter what) will listen to. I checked out both websites months ago when the new corona virus started to be reported - both websites had totally different focuses. And I will add that the CDC site is much more informative.

     

    "The 2009-2010 swine flu epidemic was a bogus epidemic. Won't go into it here, but they may eventually make some vaccines mandatory and the Health Service Corps will make it happen"

     

    I do not know which strain of flu I had in 2010, but it was the nastiest one I've ever had. Does it really matter which one (or more likely several strains of flu) were making the rounds if 12000 folks died?

     

    " I added a link to a CBS story that indicated that the CDC was using bogus numbers for H1N1 in 2009. They were the only mainstream media article that exposed that the CDC used bogus numbers to report the number of H1N1 cases. When state health department did tests on people coming into the ERs for flu and the tests were negative for H1N1, (like 90% negative), the CDC told the states in July 2009 to stop doing testing because "we have already established that it is a pandemic."

     

    The real reason was that the tests done by the state health departmets contradicted the CDC pandemic fear-mongering. They were concerned that all the swine flu vaccine they made was not going to be used. They continued to "sell" the pandemic, even though only 5 to 10% of people coming into ERs actually tested positive for HiN1. "

     

    This may very well be true. I can buy into governmental types trying to justify their budget.

     

    "I also referenced the national vaccine plan, that sounds like conspiracy theory, but it is a plan published by HHS.

     

    http://1.usa.gov/14RfPxu

     

    The really bothersome thing about the plan is the extent of the participants or stakeholders. It is a confession that government, the WHO, and BigPharma are all in bed together.
    It is amazingly pervasive:
    http://1.usa.gov/14RfPxs "

     

    This is something the government would Like To Do - not something they can do. Yes, the medical profession/government/... are in bed together. See statin drugs and the change over the last thirty years as what a safe cholesterol level is.

     

    "Going back to the National Health Service Corps military branch of HHS, they would "enforce" WHO and CDC directives if the WHO declares a level 6 pandemic. Under a "national emergency" the president could issue an order for everyone to get some kind of vaccine. The Health Service Corps would carry it out."

     

    You do realize that most nurses and doctors aren't very intimidating in person, right? Do you expect them all to be trained as a paramilitary police force?

     

    " understand South's position on vaccines as we are led by govt and pharma advertising to have unconditional faith in vaccines. We are not supposed to even question what we have been told about vaccines. "

     

    LOTS of people have questions about vaccines and don't get them. Thank you Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy for ruining our herd immunity by encouraging parents not to vaccinate their children!

     

    "As for the flu vaccine, I would not ever get it because at best it is only close to 50% effective and secondly whatever immunity it confers lasts less than one year. Why bother? There are associated risks from it. Guillian Barr syndrome, damage from foreign DNA, damage from adjuvants in the vaccine like ethyl mercury or aluminum both metals that can cause brain deterioration."

     

    I don't get the vaccine. Once get past fifty I might. Mercury is no longer used in vaccine formation.

     

    "If you have an adverse reaction, your doctor and the vaccine manufacturer will never associate (or disavow) the vaccine with the reaction. You are on your own. Burden of proof is on the person harmed."

     

    This is true for Any Drug or Procedure. Castration was the normal treatment for prostate cancer for decades. Probably changed when some 68-year-old:

     

    "Oh, I only got ten years to live doc unless you turn me into a eunuch? I think I'll be all right, thanks."

     

    "Also the Polio vaccine of the 1950's was know to contain SV-40 (Simian virus) AKA monkey virus, that is know to cause several kinds of cancer in humans -bone, brain, lung and epithelioma which was rare before 1950 but increased about 100% after the polio vaccine. SV-40 now infects about 25% of the US population and is found in people who never received the polio vaccine as it is able to pass from mother to child. Know of anyone who died of lung cancer that didn't smoke?"

     

    You can easily look up pictures of those who currently have polio in Africa and India. I am glad I got the polio vaccination as a child. I would much rather have lung cancer than polio. At least it would be quick.

     

    There are many horrible, horrible diseases that have been mostly eradicated in industrialized countries because of vaccines. Tetanus and Smallpox come to mind.

     

    " 1. Obama agenda as in Affordable Health Care act _ that's where this discussion came from. There was the reference to the Homeland Security Youth Corps graduation of first classhttp://http://bit.ly/1aJRoSv and also this Health Service corps.

     

    See any pattern in these "Corps" that are being created under Obama. What are they planning for? Would this affect our investments or the dollar?

     

    2. The current discussion, Swine flu, Health Corps, Vaccines. I know this is "rabbit hole stuff" but there may be substance to it. "

     

    Based on my previous comments of the Commisioned Corps or whatever they've been renamed, I would not worry too much about them. When I was considering joining many years ago, I read a thread by CDC employees who loathed them in general.

     

    I cannot envision a bunch of nurses and doctors cross trained to be paramilitaries to give people shots.

     

    And I would point out that in my state, I am required by law to show up to work during an emergency. If a nuke goes off or a major outbreak of some weird new disease comes out you think I'm clocking in for work? No. I'm heading the other way. And so, I suspect, would most of my co-workers.
    26 Jul 2013, 06:07 PM Reply Like
  • BlueSkyForever
    , contributor
    Comments (1578) | Send Message
     
    Thank you User for your informational post, I was getting lost in the rabbit hole!

     

    That WWI era flu epidemic was real. There weren't enough doctors to treat it, and even doctors were dying from it. I'm from a rural midwestern state & heard all about it from my grandparents.

     

    My grandfather was in WWI. Before even getting to France, he contracted dysentery at the Fort where he was while waiting to be shipped overseas. He eventually worked on the hospital train in France, as he was a clerk in a pharmacy & planned on becoming a pharmacist after the war. In those days, you worked in a pharmacy learning to compound drugs. Pharmacy school was only a year back then. So anyway after returning from the war, he was told to eat a lot of bananas and walk every day to "cure" the dysentery. Remember, this was back in 1916-1918. So he became a Fuller Brush salesman, and my grandmother helped nurse him back to health. He was the #1 salesman in the state, but went back to the drugstore anyway. That drugstore is still in our family, over 100 years later. Most of my family is either pharmacists or doctors. So I enjoy these health related threads.
    26 Jul 2013, 07:25 PM Reply Like
  • southgent1951
    , contributor
    Comments (3002) | Send Message
     
    FYI, the influenza virus was not discovered until 1933. The first vaccines were in testing between 1935-1941. The vaccine was not given to troops until WWII.

     

    History and Development of Flu Vaccines
    http://bit.ly/1bsmYbj

     

    Historic Dates and Events Related to Vaccines and Immunization
    http://bit.ly/1bsmYbn

     

    History channel article
    http://bit.ly/1bsn16Q

     

    There was nothing available to prevent the spread of the Spanish Flu in 1918. There was no flu vaccination back then.

     

    I recall hearing stories from my grandparents who said that there was nothing to do except make the patient comfortable and then bury them. My grandfather was at military base in Kansas at the conclusion of WWI and he had the most graphic stories. It was his mother and sister who died in 1918 from that epidemic.

     

    ***********

     

    USER: As to the voluntary participants in the "Ready Reserve Corp", it is conceivable that they may be called up to administer a mandatory vaccination program, but that may never happen. I suspect a more likely scenario would be a major earthquake causing hundreds of thousands of casualties.

     

    I do recall one of the really bad flu epidemics where I had a shot and caught just a mild case. The vaccine was not perfect that year but it did provide me with some protection and substantially lessen the symptoms and the duration.

     

    Moreover, as one becomes older, there is an immunity built up against a number of strains. I did read a story that those exposed to the 1918 flu had some immunity to the 2009 version.

     

    I did a google search and this is probably the NYT article that I read on that subject back in 2009:

     

    http://nyti.ms/1bsn16V

     

    This was an interesting article on the subject of why mostly healthy and young people died in the 1918 and 1999 epidemics:

     

    http://bit.ly/1bsmYbp
    26 Jul 2013, 06:59 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    User 741...
    Adverse events from Vaccines has their own specific protocol. It is up to the person injured to contact the VAERS, Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System and fill out a report. Then you have to go through a specific fed court that only hears vaccines cases. Not civil court. About 10% less of people who suffer an adverse reaction will report it. They may not associate the event with the vaccine or they don't know to report it. Their doctor most likely will not help them and will deny that a vaccine would cause an adverse reaction. They are on their own.

     

    Did you have a flu shot in 2010???

     

    You can go to the VARERS site
    vaers.hhs.gov/index
    and search the database and read about the deaths from everyday vaccines. Or do a web search for "Gardisil deaths".

     

    Don't have to worry about the menacing doctors and nurses in the health corps? They will be backed up by armed DHS marshalls, and they will be backed up with Obama Homeland Security "Fatherland" Youth Corps, wearing brown shirts.

     

    In the meantime the FDA will be raiding Amishmen or farmers who sell raw milk or organic vegitables.

     

    http://bit.ly/1bsqqTn
    Welcome to the New World Order.
    26 Jul 2013, 07:16 PM Reply Like
  • BlueSkyForever
    , contributor
    Comments (1578) | Send Message
     
    The Amish will survive, no doubt. The don't use electricity, their farms are the most productive & have the best soil (goes to show how basic farming is really the best) and they really don't rely much on anyone but themselves. In my home state, there are plenty of them. They don't go to our schools & don't mix much with the non-Amish, English as they call them. Unless we are all fried, the Amish will survive. I like the fact that they use horses, don't pollute & naturally recycle. However they do work hard, much harder than regular folks are willing.
    26 Jul 2013, 07:35 PM Reply Like
  • User 7415181
    , contributor
    Comments (691) | Send Message
     
    @South,

     

    "FYI, the influenza virus was not discovered until 1933. The first vaccines were in testing between 1935-1941. The vaccine was not given to troops until WWII."

     

    Thank you.

     

    "USER: As to the voluntary participants in the "Ready Reserve Corp", it is conceivable that they may be called up to administer a mandatory vaccination program, but that may never happen. I suspect a more likely scenario would be a major earthquake causing hundreds of thousands of casualties."

     

    This is why I believe a volunteer force of medical folks or even those working for the government being stationed at an emergency site would not be a bad thing. Mandatory vaccinations? Didn't they try that in the military a while back? I don't hear anything about it now, but I remember an enlisted soldier or two being charged and my best friend is a Jag officer said he wouldn't get them - haven't heard a thing about it in years.

     

    One of the few things I think a government is good for is public safety - a very nasty disease outbreak or natural disaster with a volunteer/professional... might be good.

     

    As opposed to the NG being bused in to bully the locals.
    26 Jul 2013, 07:17 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    User 741
    If you want free vaccines, just join the military. It is routine to get a crapload of vaccines and you don't even know what some of them are.
    The Dept of Defense has their own vaccine agency "Milvax"
    http://bit.ly/19nsevg

     

    Didn't you go to my link above about the "Stakeholders" in the US Vaccine Program?
    http://1.usa.gov/14RfPxs
    The military is a major stakeholder.
    26 Jul 2013, 07:58 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Glad I started this chapter !!

     

    Good intel.
    26 Jul 2013, 09:14 PM Reply Like
  • User 7415181
    , contributor
    Comments (691) | Send Message
     
    @JW,

     

    "Adverse events from Vaccines has their own specific protocol. It is up to the person injured to contact the VAERS, Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System and fill out a report. Then you have to go through a specific fed court that only hears vaccines cases. Not civil court. About 10% less of people who suffer an adverse reaction will report it. They may not associate the event with the vaccine or they don't know to report it. Their doctor most likely will not help them and will deny that a vaccine would cause an adverse reaction. They are on their own."

     

    I will not argue this statement. I would also point out that people in general should be cautious and research any medication or procedure before taking it.

     

    "Did you have a flu shot in 2010???"

     

    No. I got sick. I mean laid-up-in-bed-for-thr... sick. I also deal with over a hundred different patients in a month so I am at higher risk for catching something. I also try to avoid going to an ER.

     

    And I was considering getting the vaccine the next year until I read the statistics that it's essentially a guess as to what strain will be prevalent when it's decided to start formulating them. Like I said, I don't get the flu shot, but if I was older I would consider it.

     

    "Don't have to worry about the menacing doctors and nurses in the health corps? They will be backed up by armed DHS marshalls, and they will be backed up with Obama Homeland Security "Fatherland" Youth Corps, wearing brown shirts."

     

    Recall my statement about what I would do if I think there is a situation bad enough that it would threaten me or my family? Not going to show up to work.

     

    And since forcing people to take shots they don't want in some pseudo-Nazi style concentration camp would be against ethics, I don't think too many health care workers would be willing to do so.

     

    How many millions of agents would have to be armed to round up millions of healthcare workers to round up tens of millions of citizens to force them to take vaccines? Would the government consider this important enought to sabotage the economy and likely cause insurrection just to give out vaccines? Please think about this.

     

    "If you want free vaccines, just join the military. It is routine to get a crapload of vaccines and you don't even know what some of them are.
    The Dept of Defense has their own vaccine agency "Milvax"
    http://bit.ly/19nsevg"

     

    I would encourage everyone reading this thread to go to this website. Reading this link made me smile! And stuff like this is why I did not nor ever enlist! "Vaccines keep units fit to fight. We fight as a team. All team members must be healthy."
    27 Jul 2013, 08:27 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    User
    During the first Desert Storm in Iraq, the troops were reportedly given experimental Anthrax vaccines. The military is still in denial mode about Gulf War Syndrome (or lust lying). What the syndrome is, is still somewhat of a mystery. US troops got it and those of other countries didn't. It can be passed a spouse like a disease.

     

    Soldiers who received the secret "experimental" vaccines because they were expected to be deployed in Iraq, but then did not get sent there (stayed home) got the GWS too.

     

    http://bit.ly/149TpIF

     

    For a recommended read that provides a broad survey-like treatment of these issues, I like

     

    "The Trillion Dollar Conspiracy" by Jim Marrs,
    who is the author of the book "Crossfire: the Plot that Killed Kennedy" about the JFK assassination. (The Oliver Stone movie "JFK" was based on this book.)

     

    The "Trillion Dollar Conspiracy" seems to cover a lot of ground and issues, but what he covers in it is just the tip of the iceberg.
    27 Jul 2013, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • User 7415181
    , contributor
    Comments (691) | Send Message
     
    JW,

     

    Hello again. I'd forgotten about the GWS. Over the years I'd heard various rumors about the causes. Pollution from burning oil wells? Heavy metal poisoning from depleted uranium? Vaccines (back when they were still being formulated with mercury)? Or some disease contracted from the locals or water supply? Or the rations in those years were contaminated? There's no telling.

     

    But the military will not admit fault on something like that. If the military is not looking out for the best interest of enlistees as advertised, they lose discipline and volunteer recruits. So it is also not in the military's interest to actually find the cause of something like that. Just kind of let the story go dead - like it had in my own mind until you mentioned it again.
    28 Jul 2013, 09:52 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    User741
    I won't go on and on about this, but the book (available in paper or kindle) I mentioned above is a must read.
    "The Trillion Dollar Conspiracy" by Jim Marrs

     

    It does go into the history of weaponized disease. The modern developments of the new diseases are traced back to the Nazi experimentation during WWII which was continued in the US when they brought Nazi scientists to the US (Project Paperclip) to continue their work in secret for black (off the budget) projects. GWS is a result of this disease R&D. The Defense Dept, is NOT trying to find out what GWS is. They KNOW exactly what it is. Their challenge is to maintain "credible deniability" and drag out the "investigation" forever until those affected have died: control the published information about it.

     

    I do recommend that book. Yes it deals with the vaccine industry, but also the police state transformation since 2001 with the legislative acts - Patriot Act, Homeland Security/TSA,...and a lot of other stuff that everyone should know about, but many people have no clue about, or are afraid to find out about.

     

    I do not bury my head in the sand when it comes to these things. I have been observing these things for about 20 years. Having grown up in the 50's and 60's I have more of a baseline for comparison. Things have changed more in the last 10 years than in the last 50, easily. I may write some instablog related to some of this. I am planning to do a few articles in the near future but not about the above topics as SA would not ever print such material. It is not "investment" oriented enough.

     

    Best wishes
    JW
    28 Jul 2013, 04:15 PM Reply Like
  • southgent1951
    , contributor
    Comments (3002) | Send Message
     
    John: Have you ever challenged the claims made by Jim Marrs with your own independent research using original source data, and separated his opinions stated as facts from facts that can be verified by source material?

     

    He is certainly anti-Obama. I believe that he is a birther too.

     

    I would classify him as being on the far right fringe.

     

    28 Jul 2013, 04:43 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    User
    From what I know of him and have read of his works, he is neither Democrat or Republican. I do not recall him ever writing anything in support of either political party. As an investigative journalist, he long ago realized there is a strategy of splitting and pitting the American citizenry against each other using the false dichotomy of Republican vs Democrat parties. I'm sure he knows that there are only sufficient differences between the two to give the illusion that US Citizens have a choice.

     

    I personally think that the two parties are a scam. There is one political establishment that has two different masks that it wears.

     

    He is not "far right," as much of the investigation he does EXPOSES evils of what you would consider the "far right" to be. In the book, when he is writing about Gulf War Syndrome and the lies given for starting the war, he is writing about the treachery of the Reagan and Bush presidencies. Iran-Contra, Drugs for Guns, Bush/Reagan supplying germ warfare agents to Saddam Hussein, etc. Contrary to defending Reagan, Bush, and Cheney, he is going after them.

     

    He definitely had harsh treatment of George W and Cheney. in the book "The Terrror Conspiracy." Jim Marrs I'm sure has nothing to do with either party. He is "fringe" only in the regard, that he is investigating areas that the main stream mass media ridicules and derides as "conspiracy theory" topics. This is to discourage people from either investigating or reading about these topics.

     

    Example: in 1996 TWA Flight 800 fell from the night sky. All were killed. Hundreds of people saw a streaking object going up from the surface and into the sky. Minutes later, the jet fell from the sky and into the Atlantic of Long Island. Navy ships were doing war exercises in the area. The FBI took over the investigation and intimidated witnesses and told the newspapers what they could write about it. Even Coast Guard helicopter pilots who saw the "streak" were commanded not to speak. Reporters who did not obey were fired. Stories were killed. The story concocted by the FBI was that faulty wires in the fuel tank shorted and touched off an explosion. This is impossible as there is no oxygen in a fuel tank. The FBI also tampered with evidence (the wreckage).

     

    Anyone who tried to look further into the reason for the crash was branded a "conspiracy theorist".

     

    Now (just three weeks ago) retiring FBI agents have come forth and stated that they were forced to falsify the investigation. The FBI falsified an investigation and outright lied to the public.

     

    The point is that the media was complicit with the FBI's demands to falsify information. They fired journalists who tried to find out the truth. These are the type of people (those in power) Jim Marrs is writing about. He doesn't give a crap about Democrat or Republican.

     

    He may have written something about Obama, but, really, Obama is continuing everything that George W Bush was doing and extending it further. He may as well be George W. Bush. Obama signed the extension of the Patriot Act which is giving us a police state. He has expanded the use of drones. Look at the spying that is going on under Obama. He is making 1984 a reality.

     

    If you want proof that there is no difference between Democrat and Republican, just look how they are in agreement with each other on enabling the NSA to spy on everyone and squashing anyone who talks about it.

     

    Until people can free themselves from the false notion - the "either or" fallacy, that they have a real choice with the Democrat or Republican parties, they will continue to be fooled.

     

    I would say Marrs is credible and unbiased.

     

    JW
    28 Jul 2013, 05:50 PM Reply Like
  • User 7415181
    , contributor
    Comments (691) | Send Message
     
    Eh? Adressing myself or Southgent?

     

    But anywho, I read one of Jim Maars books and still have it around: "Rule by Secrecy". If you blew up the "DaVinci Code" and expanded it forward to include the Rockefeller's and back in time to have aliens building the pyramids and basically included every conspiracy theory ever, you would have "Rule by Secrecy". Which is exactly what that book is. I believe I picked it up when I was on a Medieval history bent and the jacket mentioned the Templars.

     

    I think we would probably agree that governments and organizations of powerful people overall are sociopathic at best. I think we would disagree that you think (and please correct me if my interpretations of your posts are incorrect) that governments and said powerful people are able to coherently execute multi-decade master plans. I think myself that bad things result from these type of entities due to incompetence, a lack of imagination, and people being put in postitions beyond their capabilities.

     

    edit - I think I'm going to have to bow out of this - this is much like arguing religion or politics - not for polite company and unlikely we will change each other's minds.
    28 Jul 2013, 08:44 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    User
    Oh my, i didn't look close enough. That was SG who asked if I had investigated Marrs above. Ok, so, South, that was my reply.

     

    I reiterate, that Marrs is not far right. He is OFF the Left-Right continuum. He doesn't play that game. I would guess he would be Libertarian, but I don't know. He investigates the "far right" in his books.

     

    South,
    do you think that "macro" or "political" issues should be addressed OFF of IT's stock blog, like over here on this one? It seems like people are butting heads like when you are interested discussing stock or investing choices, and then Tampat responds with some "macro" issue response, like the federal debt or QE or whatever? It seems like there are two different lines of interest represented.

     

    User741:
    I have that book too. It was very interesting. You know, George W was very convincing at selling the "incompetence" theory that you suggest above. Who could appear to be more incompetent?

     

    "Duh, we had no idea they would try to fly airplanes into buildings, if only we had know they would do that."

     

    Problem is, they did know, and had contingency plans, and were even conducting a simulated operations that very day. It is well documented in David Ray Griffins book, The New Pearl Harbor Revisited. They always play the "bumbling good old boy who made a mistake" card. Like they had the best of intentions but they just let their guard down long enough for the enemy to strike. "Gosh, we're sorry we didn't know they were so crazy that they would fly planes into buildings" People seem to buy it.

     

    Well, who ever is interested, that book is one of the most sweeping and revealing I have ever read, but it is basically a "survey" treatment of many different things like Operation Paperclip and GWS and cannot go into too much depth on each topic. And the topics looked at are only the most glaring. They are the tip of the iceberg.

     

    JW
    28 Jul 2013, 09:18 PM Reply Like
  • southgent1951
    , contributor
    Comments (3002) | Send Message
     
    John and User:

     

    I would agree with User that any discussion about Maars is not likely to change anyone's mind and is not a worthy topic of discussion in my opinion. John and I have radically different opinions about him, and that is not going to change based on anything said here.
    28 Jul 2013, 09:40 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    Well, then, I have nothing more to say.
    28 Jul 2013, 10:34 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » You guys just by your recommendations had me order both books on these topics for my kindle. I am sure they will make good reading material,

     

    I bought JW'S suggestions ABOUT 9/11 which I always had serious questions about how they pulled that one off. Not to mention the imploding of the buildings and why on earth did WT #7 COLLAPSE AS WELL WHEN IT WASN'T EVEN TOUCHED?

     

    Plus it was headquarters for quite a few of our agencies wasn't it?

     

    Few experts in the demolition business said it was done perfectly to implode all the way down and an assumption was made that the elevator shafts were lined with explosives..

     

    Boy, I got quite a few books to read as I also was recommended buying "THEY FIRED THE FIRST SHOT 2012" a friend of majoire that just went to a kindle edition. It got rave reviews and I am told it is riveting .

     

    USER, bowing out isn't the answer. Giving us literature to read is !! We can decide what side of the fence we want to sit on !!
    28 Jul 2013, 10:46 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    Hey IT

     

    A comment on the books, but first this:

     

    IT --you hit on the exact very thing that opened my eyes. About 6 or 7 years ago one winter afternoon, I was just looking at some stuff on Youtube, and for no reason, I thought I would look at the collapse of the Twin Towers again. Then I saw a link to video of the collapse of WTC Building 7. I had never heard that other buildings collapsed too. I was mad as hell at the "terrorists" at this point in time. So I clicked on the link to WTC Building 7. There it stood, a 40 story building very much intact. It had some smoke from some fire, but nothing major. Them all of a sudden puffs of smoke came out from the sides and then the whole building just started going straight down into the ground, like a huge hole opened up underneath it and it about 5 seconds it was down completely.

     

    I was shocked. Immediately with no hesitation I knew that it was a controlled demolition. Shit !! that was a controlled demo (I said to myself). Intact steel frame buildings cannot just collapse straight down in 5 seconds. Then the question came automatically. If WTC 7 was rigged, them what about the Twin Towers? That's what the book The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, answers.

     

    Watch for yourself: The collapse of WTC Building t
    http://bit.ly/1aRKHOr

     

    Also, the BBC in England annouced the collapse of Building 7 at least 23 minutes BEFORE it acually collapsed. The newsreader, read from a script and announced that "... the Solomon Building has just collapsed..." This was a live feed. Incredibly in the live background, unknown to the BBC, WTC 7 was plainly visible, still standing intact. How embarrassing. Oh crap, what a mistake. You can watch it. Link below.

     

    BBC reports collapse of WTC Building 7 23 minutes before actual collapse.
    http://bit.ly/1aRKFGj

     

    OK, about the books

     

    The Trillion Dollar Conspiracy" by Jim Marrs
    and
    The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, by David Ray Griffin,
    were two I recommended.

     

    User did not recommend any book about 9/11.

     

    I also mentioned, "The Terror Conspiracy" by Marrs, that pertains to 9/11

     

    User 741 mentioned "Rule by Secrecy", by Marrs, which I have and have read. User apparently does not agree with it as the the book maintains there are groups or entities that seek to control the human race. He (Marrs) has an alien theory about this. I think there are beings or entities: Hitler had one that appeared to him (the superman), but I would not say they are "aliens". That's another topic.

     

    IT, in ranking these books in order to read, to me it is a toss-up between reading The Trillion Dollar Conspiracy by Marrs, and The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, by Griffin.

     

    The Trillion Dollar Conspiracy moves much faster as it goes from topic to topic and really keeps your interest. The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, is a slower read, written in a well documented manner and required a good attention span.

     

    What does this have to to with anything?
    Oh, just two wars that cost about 1.5 trillion
    http://costofwar.com
    6,700 US servicemen&women killed. 50,000 wounded.
    100s of thousands of Iraqi and Afgans killed.
    At least one service person suicide a day, tens of thousands of PTSD cases.
    The cost is immeasurable.

     

    Oh and don't forget we have a new department: Homeland Security. We have the TSA groping goons with their backscatter radiation scanners.

     

    South and User don't want to have their mind changed. That's OK. I didn't think I was trying to change anyone's mind. I thought I was just providing information that anyone would want to know about. I would have wanted to know.

     

    Thanks for your response IT.

     

    Maybe others will read this and will want to find out about how we have been totally jerked around and lied to by those in power.

     

    Amazing. If some people get overcharged at the auto shop or garage, they get mad as hell. But if we have huge wars sold to us on outright lies, we just turn the other way. They don't want to hear about it.
    29 Jul 2013, 12:07 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » @JW

     

    Check out the book THEY FIRED THE FIRST SHOT 2012 and read the description to see if it would interest you. I HAVE NOT READ IT YET, as I have a few to finish before that one !
    29 Jul 2013, 12:39 AM Reply Like
  • tampat
    , contributor
    Comments (998) | Send Message
     
    "They don't want to hear about it."

     

    John,

     

    Thats right. Some things are just too difficult to accept as it would require people to change some of their core views. People resist that.
    29 Jul 2013, 06:32 AM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3168) | Send Message
     
    If you are interested in a book that sheds light on WHY 911 occurred without pointing fingers concerning the explosion itself. I just read this:
    http://bit.ly/18jl9eA
    29 Jul 2013, 08:01 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » JW AND ALL

     

    Can you recap the books that you think we might find interesting as I might have missed one along the way.

     

    You could add my recommendation to the list as well. This can evolve into a political chapter as far as I am concerned . I will rename it if you guys would like me to ??
    28 Jul 2013, 11:00 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    I HAVE HAVING A COMPUTER GLITCH SO I AM MOVING THIS CHPTER TO THE NEXT ONE CALLED CONSPIRACY #2 WHICH SHOULD COVER ALMOST ALL TOPICS..

     

    please post there from now on !! Thanks...
    29 Jul 2013, 12:24 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » HERE IS THE NEW LINK FOR THE CONSPIRACY CHAPTER THAT INCLUDES MACRO EVENTS EFFECTING THE MARKETS.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    29 Jul 2013, 01:12 AM Reply Like
  • southgent1951
    , contributor
    Comments (3002) | Send Message
     
    In the event anyone desires factual information about why the second tower collapsed, there are a number of articles written by scientists and engineers:

     

    One can be found in this MIT publication:

     

    The Towers Lost and Beyond
    http://bit.ly/14dARHJ

     

    In that series of articles, the most helpful one is

     

    http://bit.ly/14dARHL

     

    Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster
    http://1.usa.gov/14dARHN

     

    I do not think that I will be participating in the "conspiracy chapter" or any further substantive discussions here.
    29 Jul 2013, 09:32 AM Reply Like
  • southgent1951
    , contributor
    Comments (3002) | Send Message
     
    The second link above does not work.

     

    I was attempting to link this report at MIT's site that is referenced in the first link above which does work:

     

    6. Materials and structures
    Oral Buyukozturk, Franz-Josef Ulm
    29 Jul 2013, 11:50 AM Reply Like
  • BlueSkyForever
    , contributor
    Comments (1578) | Send Message
     
    South, I'm with you, the conspiracy theory that 911 was done by our own gov't has been debunked. It was the design of the buildings that led to their collapse, after the airplanes hit the buildings. Keep in mind those planes were full with fuel.

     

    As far as explosions, well sure in a major inferno like that things are going to pop. Ever listen to your wood burning fire? Plenty of pops while the logs burn.

     

    Yeah sometimes people in our gov't screw up, but to believe that some gov't conspiracy existed to take down the 2 towers is too much for me. I personally know people that died that day. I could see the smoke drifting east from my upstairs windows. I live less than 40 miles south of NYC. It was a horrific day, one that we should never see again.

     

    Here's a logical explanation that should be read, about another building that collapsed

     

    http://1.usa.gov/14tMhjs

     

    Be careful what you read & even more careful what you believe. I trust scientists.
    29 Jul 2013, 12:07 PM Reply Like
  • southgent1951
    , contributor
    Comments (3002) | Send Message
     
    BlueSky: I agree. The collapse is well understood by scientists.
    29 Jul 2013, 12:09 PM Reply Like
  • Land of Milk and Honey
    , contributor
    Comments (3989) | Send Message
     
    I looked into the conspiracy information back when it came out, and noticed...

     

    that if conspiracy proponents put the same level of questioning & challenging into their own "facts" and conclusions.... as they do into more standard facts & conclusions.... their stuff fails much worse.

     

    In other words, conspiracy theories rely heavily on an emotional component to pull in people. So there's a drive to "debulk" the standard, but no equal drive to "debulk" the alternative stuff by the same proponents.

     

    Also, I belong to an cultural group that's often been targeted over the centuries with intense conspiracy theories that are completely loony, yet believed, even as mainstream, by many. They stuff would be hysterically funny, if it wasn't often downright deadly. So, I tend to believe a theory, when I have a full and accountable set of facts. Not when it's a "set of questions" stage.

     

    Just my point of view.
    29 Jul 2013, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • tampat
    , contributor
    Comments (998) | Send Message
     
    "Be careful what you read & even more careful what you believe"

     

    The second half of that sentence is good advice.
    29 Jul 2013, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1226) | Send Message
     
    BSF
    What you are saying is you trust the government scientists. The NIST report is outrageously deficient in that it ignores hard evidence. It ignores first hand accounts or witnesses, NY Firemen and Police. It is as bad or worse than the Warren Commission Report with its single bullet theory to explain JFK's assassination.

     

    There are scientists, engineers, and architects who strongly disagree with the government story. The (gov't/ NIST) ignore the pools of molten steel at the base of the rubble. Burning jet fuel cannot melt steel. No steel building had ever collapsed before. These buildings did not just collapse, they were pulverized and melted.

     

    Government scientists will lie and distort the truth for the government. That is who they work for. They are not paid to produce the truth.
    29 Jul 2013, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3168) | Send Message
     
    I wish they would accept the scientific evidence at OK. City. There is no way a truck fertilizer bomb bomb can cause a crater in the ground like the one at the Ok. City bombing. Why not ask the scientists for the actual processes involved there ? Because they don't say anything remotely close to the governments story apparently.
    29 Jul 2013, 08:11 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » @coins

     

    do you want to repost this in the other chapter listed on the bottom?

     

    I am going to poof this chapter at the end of the week.
    29 Jul 2013, 10:06 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3168) | Send Message
     
    OK
    30 Jul 2013, 06:59 AM Reply Like
  • Land of Milk and Honey
    , contributor
    Comments (3989) | Send Message
     
    @JW

     

    And other scientists not part of the government, have shown all those "issues" weren't issues at all, but poor understandings by non-scientist conspiracy theorists.

     

    You have to be willing to challenge the challenges. Though I'm not going to dig up links, nor get into details here.

     

    Let's leave it at agree to disagree.
    29 Jul 2013, 12:35 PM Reply Like
  • southgent1951
    , contributor
    Comments (3002) | Send Message
     
    I would add this site for anyone interested in a factual discussion about the collapse:

     

    http://bit.ly/18N6xFB
    29 Jul 2013, 12:37 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » @FOR ALL

     

    Just got in and I would appreciate anyone that posted today to paste it to the new chapter. I am having problems for some reason with this one..

     

    The link is listed above. I fully understand that some TRUST our government,. So explain to me why WTC #7 MELTED DOWN to nothing yet was never hit? Was Kennedy a one person kill? Let's add Pearl Harbor as well..

     

    But in the next chapter open to all of this and MARCO events that some have posted about that could effect the world at some point.

     

    Here's the link !!

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    Let me tell you some people I know in Long Island SAW that upward projectile towards that plane that we all told exploded on it's own. Okey dokey.....Do we all really trust what were told to trust???

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    29 Jul 2013, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » IN FACT IF ANYONE MADE A POST IN THIS CHAPTER AND WOULD NOT MIND MOVING IT TO THE NEW ONE I CAN JUST DELETE THIS ONE COMPLETELY !!

     

    would make my life a lot easier.. Link is listed a few times here already. I will wait until the end of the week for those who want to copy and paste their thoughts to the new one then I will close this one out !!

     

    Just post here you moved your comments so I kinda can keep track of this, A HUGE THANKS!!
    29 Jul 2013, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (10814) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » OK, THIS CHAPTER IS COMPLETED. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO MOVE ANY COMMENTS TO THE OTHER CONSPIRACY CHAPTER PLEASE DO SO BY WEDNESDAY BEACUSE AS OF THURSDAY I WILL DELETE THIS ONE !!

     

    THANKS!
    4 Aug 2013, 01:13 PM Reply Like
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