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I could put on this bio my education, work experience, investment strategy, and a nice thin (if I can find one) picture of me in a suit looking *smart*. Sorry but that's not my intent here. Sure I invest, help family make financial decisions, and make a ton of mistakes along the way. But my time... More
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Interesting Times For All Commodities And Investments!! CHAPTER 4......
  • Interesting Times For All Commodities And Investments!! MLP SPECIAL EDITION !!! 66 comments
    Jul 12, 2014 3:14 PM

    I am posting here a comment from a follower that I think might warrant special attention. This area is of great importance to some followers and I would appreciate comments on it !!

    Energy related MLPs are often considered and discussed by investors as a monolithic asset class. In fact, however, there are many sub-categories of energy MLPs which vary from each other significantly in terms of structure, purpose, risk and, correlatively, yield.

    In terms of oil and gas operations the partnerships reflect the industry categorizations of upstream, midstream and downstream companies.

    Turning to upstream companies first, some are oil weighted, some are natural gas weighted and both often also produce natural gas to be processed into natural gas liquids, such as ethane, propane, butane, isobutane and natural gasoline. Some upstream partnerships hedge their production completely for years out and whenever an acquisition is made, others hedge less. Some emphasize shale related plays and horizontal drilling, others emphasize more traditional basins and vertical drilling. Most upstream MLPs do recite the mantra of looking for low decline rate, lower capital requirement leases. Among the gas heavy companies most seek wet gas locations but others have legacy dry gas leases held by production. In terms of oil, production ranges from heavy oil with low API gravity ratings to light oil with high API gravity ratings, and these days there is a very large amount of light condensate being produced as well. For those upstream producers of natural gas liquids, while the propane business has thrived due to the cold winter and to exports, there has been ethane rejection by many upstream producers (and midstream processors as well) which has had an adverse impact on their bottom lines.

    Midstream MLPs perform a vast variety of functions with a vast variety of assets in different geographies, and again, some emphasize liquids and some emphasize gas. There are pipeline companies, some of which carry gas, some of which carry oil and some of which carry natural gas liquids. Of the oil pipeline companies some are now adding railroad facilities as well.There are gathering and processing companies, which collect natural gas, treat it (clean out impurities) process it (separate the gas from the liquids) and fractionate the liquids producing ethane, butane, isobutane, propane, and natural gasoline. Some of these processing companies have little or no exposure to commodity pricing in their fee based contracts with their customers, while others have commodity exposure under percentage of proceeds or keep-whole contracts. The latter MLPs hedge this exposure to varying degrees.There are also compression MLPs, primarily for gas pipelines but also for oil lifting. Other MLPs are in the business of terminaling and storage. The economics of oil storage and gas storage have differed materially in recent years, with gas storage being far less economically rewarding than oil terminaling and storage. And of course, many MLPs perform more than one of these functions. Other midstream MLPs process sulfur or ashphalt, the heavier components in oil production, or engage in barge transport of oil, sulfur, or other petroleum based commodities on the river or in the Gulf.

    Downstream MLPs engage in refining and marketing. Until recently the volatility of refining crack spreads were thought to make refiners unsuited for MLPs, but recently a new breed of MLPs--those with varying distributions and known as variable rate MLPs--have emerged. Among them are refiners and providers of specialized frac sands. Another developing class of MLP is the liquification (formerly, before the boom in gas production, it was going to be deliquification of imported gas) of natural gas for export.Retail sales of gasoline is not MLP qualifying income and since 90% of the MLPs' income must be qualifying one must keep an eye on these non-qualifying activities, which also include convenience stores at service stations.Wholesale sales of petroleum products is acceptable. There is also another class of MLPs which engage in wholesale and retail distributions of propane, and now some midstream MLPs are also starting to export propane.

    There are also MLPs in the coal business, some of which produce thermal coal and some of which produce metallurgical coal.

    There are also shipping MLPs, some of which operate oil tankers, some of which transport liquefied natural gas, some of which transport dry bulk such as coal.

    Other MLPs are engaged in offshore oil and gas production, operating drill ships, jack up rigs, and production, storage and offloading vessels.

    There is also considerable geographic diversity of operations of MLPs. Coal production may be found in Appalachia and in Wyoming. Oil and gas operations vary from California to the Bakken in North Dakota, to the Marcellus and Utica, to the Permian Basin, to the Eagle Ford play, from the Hugoton to the Granite Wash, from the Niobrara to the Woodford, Barnett, Haynesville and beyond.

    In addition, many general partners of MLPs are themselves MLPs which are publicly traded. Most MLPs pay their general partners incentive distribution right payments, but some have reorganized and made their general partners into subsidiaries which do not receive such payments. And, of course, those structured as LLCs do not even have general partners.

    The portion of the distributions which are tax deferred will vary among and between MLPs depending on such things as depreciation, depletion, and intangible drilling costs.

    Therefore, as can be seen, it is possible to create a portfolio of diversified MLPs.

    The ideal owner of MLP units is a patient seeker of tax deferred income. MLPs are not generally suitable as trading vehicles because of the reduction in basis caused by distributions which are tax deferred and because of the recapture as ordinary income on the sale of MLP units.

    Elliot Miller

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  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Elliot, Thank you for taking the time to write this. I hope you drop in and answer some questions about it..

     

    Thanks !!
    12 Jul 2014, 03:18 PM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (8099) | Send Message
     
    Also thank you.
    12 Jul 2014, 03:39 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » I found this article about MLP'S that might help to understand them...

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    12 Jul 2014, 04:15 PM Reply Like
  • nocnurzfred
    , contributor
    Comments (557) | Send Message
     
    IT; Both articles are great! Thanks for finding them for us.
    My simple question is, are MLPs suitable for Roth IRAs? There is that 10K thing and return of principle to consider. Thanks again.
    13 Jul 2014, 06:27 AM Reply Like
  • elliot_mllr
    , contributor
    Comments (1381) | Send Message
     
    It's not a good idea to put an MLP in a tax qualified account, since to the extent that the distributions over $1,000 are not tax deferred they are taxed as unrelated business taxable income. However, Linn Energy set up Linco, a C corp, for investment by retirement plans.
    13 Jul 2014, 07:43 AM Reply Like
  • nocnurzfred
    , contributor
    Comments (557) | Send Message
     
    Thank you Elliot. I thought so. How about a couple hundred shares where the distributions are well less than $1000?
    13 Jul 2014, 07:47 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Elliot

     

    Are you saying NOT to use a ROTH account ?
    13 Jul 2014, 10:10 AM Reply Like
  • elliot_mllr
    , contributor
    Comments (1381) | Send Message
     
    Even apart from the UBTI issues it doesn't make great economic sense to put a tax deferred distribution generating asset into an otherwise tax deferred account. It makes better sense to out into a qualified retirement account (even a Roth account) assets which otherwise generate income taxable at one's highest marginal rate, such as BDCs and REITs.
    Elliot Miller
    14 Jul 2014, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7071) | Send Message
     
    It is less than ideal to put MLPs into either a traditional or a ROTH IRA.

     

    LNCO, as Elliot already pointed out, and KMR are much better suited for tax advantaged accounts. KMR is similar to KMP except it pays its distributions in units of KMR. KMI is another Kinder Morgan entity that is suitable for tax advantaged accounts.
    18 Jul 2014, 06:05 AM Reply Like
  • COBeeMan
    , contributor
    Comments (1432) | Send Message
     
    However, from my understanding, MLPL does not get a K1 and works well in an IRA, since it is an ETN based on an index of MLPs and pays 2X their distributions as interest. However, be sure to buy when it is low to mitigate the chances of the 2X leverage biting you on the low side later. I am waiting for a correction in which the MLPs (and MLPL) drops significantly, and investing elsewhere in the mean time.
    19 Jul 2014, 03:47 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7071) | Send Message
     
    Yes, there are ETNs and ETFs that include MLPs that you can use in a tax advantaged account as well as the funds aren't partnerships.
    19 Jul 2014, 03:51 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » COBEE

     

    At what price would you buy (NYSEARCA:MLPL) ?
    19 Jul 2014, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • COBeeMan
    , contributor
    Comments (1432) | Send Message
     
    I think it will get down near $54 one day, but I would probably start adding to what I have under $64.
    19 Jul 2014, 05:45 PM Reply Like
  • elliot_mllr
    , contributor
    Comments (1381) | Send Message
     
    Bear in mind one very, very important fact: there is no--repeat, no--tax deferral in payments from an ETN.
    Elliot Miller
    20 Jul 2014, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • COBeeMan
    , contributor
    Comments (1432) | Send Message
     
    Thanks Elliot. True, no special tax treatment from an ETN, but aren't the interest payments tax free (not just deferred) if the ETN (such as MLPL) is kept in a ROTH IRA?
    20 Jul 2014, 04:57 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » COBEE

     

    Good question as I am confused about this as well..
    (NYSEARCA:MLPL)..
    21 Jul 2014, 01:23 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7071) | Send Message
     
    "but aren't the interest payments tax free (not just deferred) if the ETN (such as MLPL) is kept in a ROTH IRA?"

     

    That is how a ROTH works.
    21 Jul 2014, 06:54 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » PEND

     

    I am not sure if that is what Elliot is saying. Let's see if he clears that up..
    21 Jul 2014, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • elliot_mllr
    , contributor
    Comments (1381) | Send Message
     
    CObeeMan:
    Yup. Roths are marvelous, but the cost of converting at my age has always deterred me from a conversion of my IRAs and profit sharing plan accounts. My qualified plans have portfolios of BDCs with an average yield of 10%. Roths and non-Roth qualified plans are appropriate places to put high yielding investments (BDCs, REITs, ETNs) which would be taxed at one's highest marginal rate in a non-qualified account.
    Elliot Miller
    21 Jul 2014, 02:41 PM Reply Like
  • elliot_mllr
    , contributor
    Comments (1381) | Send Message
     
    Interesting Times:
    What I did was recite a conclusion. Here is the basis for it.
    Since distributions from a Roth are not taxed when paid (because there was no tax deduction when the cash used to acquire the asset giving rise to the income was contributed) the income earned on high yielding assets owned by a Roth is essentially tax free. On the other hand, cash contributed to a traditional IRA is deductible when made, but distributions from the traditional IRA are taxed as ordinary income when paid, so that income from such assets is tax deferred. Therefore, payments to a Roth by an ETN owned by the Roth are tax free, whereas payments to a traditional IRA by an ETN are deferred until paid as a distribution to the owner of the IRA.
    I hope that this clarifies matters.
    Elliot Miller
    21 Jul 2014, 03:05 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Elliot

     

    Thanks for clearing that up !!
    21 Jul 2014, 04:53 PM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (8099) | Send Message
     
    Elliot is AAA+++ !
    21 Jul 2014, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • madpup
    , contributor
    Comments (57) | Send Message
     
    I would like to own MLPL very much but it's outstanding performance in price holds me back. I would like to have a 20% position in that category, so in the mean time I invested 5% each into SDRL, LNCO & NAT. As of today I am looking closely at ROYT. If anyone else is looking at ROYT, I would appreciate any pro or con opinions. Great blog I.T.
    24 Jul 2014, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • eppf2
    , contributor
    Comments (275) | Send Message
     
    ROYT is paying a huge dividend but it is being cut next month. But the biggest problem for it in the coming months is "MEASURE P" in the November elections. This is typical California stuff that could really trash the company. For my part, as attractive as it is now, I'm staying away.
    25 Jul 2014, 09:10 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1460) | Send Message
     
    IT

     

    MLPs are a load of fun at tax time:

     

    Instead of 1099-Div statements, you get a partner's K-1 report from the company.

     

    This will come in March and you may possible file your tax return before it comes. Then you will kick yourself as you realize you now have to file an 1040 -X.

     

    If you have a number of MLP investments, it will either cost you a lot of extra tax prep fees, or extra personal headache if you DIYS.

     

    Then there is required BS of keeping track of your basis in the MLP for when you eventually sell it.

     

    I decided I did not need the extra complications in tax reporting if I can avoid it.
    14 Jul 2014, 01:38 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » JW

     

    Thanks for that comment. So I guess even having it in a ROTH account doesn't help ??
    14 Jul 2014, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (8099) | Send Message
     
    It's support,common shares are keeping it simpler,good question for JW.
    14 Jul 2014, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1460) | Send Message
     
    IT
    You can have it in a Roth. When you look at a K-1 you will see that you have the distributions that were paid to you, and there will also be deductible expenses that will reduce the tax liability. Actually
    having it in a Roth or IRA may introduce additional tax questions. When you try to find anything out from the MLP the answer is "talk to your tax adviser."

     

    REITs and BDCs are much more straight forward as you do not have to deal with a K-1. With REITs and BDCs, you don't have to deal with the partnership K1 statement. The income is straight forwardly reported on a 1099-Div or 1099-B. Of course in a ROTH or IRA you do not have to report dividend income on the tax return, and with a ROTH you would never pay tax on the dividends.
    14 Jul 2014, 02:30 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » JW

     

    For me then it's REITS or BDC'S...

     

    Thanks!
    14 Jul 2014, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (8099) | Send Message
     
    IT i bet ED & UI is starting to look better and better.
    14 Jul 2014, 08:21 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7071) | Send Message
     
    MLPs generate UBTI (unrelated business taxable income) when in either a ROTH IRA or a traditional IRA. This is because since the P in MLP stands for partnership, the IRS considers that the tax advantaged account is doing the business that the MLP is doing, which is unrelated to the what the account should be doing, which is investing for retirement. This means that they potentially generate taxes. There is a minimum UBTI below which you don't have to pay taxes for the year, but its probably for the best to avoid MLPs. Some MLPs have alternately structured entities for use in retirement accounts.
    18 Jul 2014, 06:11 AM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (8099) | Send Message
     
    They are a product that does need Advice and a more sophisticated guidance.
    18 Jul 2014, 07:36 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » PEN

     

    Thank you for that information... Personally I will stick with the BDC'S as I learn more..
    18 Jul 2014, 02:24 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7071) | Send Message
     
    Even in my taxable account I mostly avoid MLPs now. I get almost the same (if not better) return without the complications by investing in several MLP adjacent equities, LNCO, KMI and KMR.
    18 Jul 2014, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • Stephen McCoy
    , contributor
    Comments (745) | Send Message
     
    I invest primarily for income, and I like the MLPs that buy into old oil fields and keep them producing. In addition to enhancing what they have, they regularly add to their properties. Moreover, some of them have been acquiring old properties in the Permian Basin, which is experiencing a renaissance, because of discovering more huge amounts oil, at deeper levels; so they are going to also be capitalizing on new discoveries. And I worry a lot less about dividend cuts, because they are in the business of making distributions to their unit holders, and the tax advantages of that approach. 
    20 Jul 2014, 02:29 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » STEVE

     

    Can you recommend what you like ? Please bracket the symbols as it helps lurkers and investors place their mouse of it for names.. (NASDAQ:FSC) is an example..

     

    Thanks and welcome..
    21 Jul 2014, 01:21 AM Reply Like
  • nocnurzfred
    , contributor
    Comments (557) | Send Message
     
    IT; Took me awhile to realize bracketing means the upper case #9 & 0 keys. Those "things" to the right of letter P do not work. Keep it simple & clear. Thanks.
    24 Jul 2014, 07:48 AM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (8099) | Send Message
     
    Sometimes Genies does have to come back to Mother Earth.
    24 Jul 2014, 07:59 AM Reply Like
  • eppf2
    , contributor
    Comments (275) | Send Message
     
    I like like LNCO which is not an MLP but a derivation from LINE. LINE got whacked by Barron's and Hedgeye months ago but has survived although they did have to pay more to Berry Petroleum. But I've had very good luck with a nice dividend with (NASDAQ:VNR) recently. For small amounts of stock the tax reporting can be a pain but the reward, because of being able to take depretion etc. with the commodity oriented companies can be very rewarding.
    24 Jul 2014, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » So if an investor has no exposure to this sector do they buy the ETN ?? (NYSEARCA:MLPL)
    25 Jul 2014, 09:35 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7071) | Send Message
     
    I wouldn't use that fund for long term investments. It rebalances daily and so is more suitable for an active trader. Also it has a lot of moving parts and has MLPs with very different business plans. I would instead recommend that you start with the pipeline MLPs, as these use a toll road model, figure out how they run their business and pick a company or two in that sector. These mid-stream operators have the advantage over both upstream and downstream sectors in that they aren't impacted by commodity prices. Then once you have mastered that you can branch out to the other types of MLPs which are more complicated (and which have to have hedges for commodity price swings).

     

    I like the Kinder Morgan entities in this group.
    25 Jul 2014, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » PEND

     

    Would you mind giving a few symbols that people can research ? Please bracket them. (NYSEARCA:MLPL)... Thanks.

     

    IT
    25 Jul 2014, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • elliot_mllr
    , contributor
    Comments (1381) | Send Message
     
    Distributions from an ETN are not tax deferred. That is crucial.
    Elliot Miller
    25 Jul 2014, 10:45 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Elliot

     

    But in a ROTH is the better way to go. Am I correct ?

     

    Any suggested MLP'S to research ?
    25 Jul 2014, 10:48 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7071) | Send Message
     
    I like (NYSE:KMR), (NYSE:KMP) and (NYSE:KMI). To avoid UBTI issues entirely only use (KMR) or (KMI) in tax advantaged accounts.
    25 Jul 2014, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (8099) | Send Message
     
    Pend i have built a portfolio over years and mainly have not taken advice,on technical and timing issues yes.
    Any diversification has to have an exchange and correlation to the other members of the portfolio.

     

    Example would be (NYSE:SSE) spin off from (NYSE:CHK) and the relationship the two executives have with the balance of powers,brilliant move.
    26 Jul 2014, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • Be Here Now
    , contributor
    Comments (4540) | Send Message
     
    PendragonY,

     

    You got your facts about (NYSEARCA:MLPL) wrong on several accounts.

     

    First, it rebalances monthly, not daily. This makes it suitable for long term investing.

     

    Second, its performance is based on the Alerian MLP Infrastructure Index, whose constituents are the very midstream MLPs that you (and I) like.

     

    I have owned a number of midstream MLPs for years. I avoided owning them in my IRAs, except for KMR and LNCO, because of the UBTI issue. However, if I had understood MLPL as I do now when I had started investing in MLPs, I would have bought MLPL in my IRAs.

     

    Get and read the product supplement here: http://bit.ly/WHlsNn
    26 Jul 2014, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7071) | Send Message
     
    Al,

     

    What I try to achieve thru diversification is to protect my portfolio from multiple positions all suffering hard times at the same time.
    26 Jul 2014, 08:58 PM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (8099) | Send Message
     
    Has your choice of balance preserved capital,you are correct heavy in certain sectors has it's extremes but advantages too ! You do have an interesting perspective.

     

    I think IT & Elliot are reinforcing concepts of personal navigation which does not stay the same forever.
    26 Jul 2014, 09:04 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » BHN

     

    For a person looking to buy into this sector for the first time would you suggest (NYSEARCA:MLPL) ?

     

    Thanks!
    26 Jul 2014, 11:28 PM Reply Like
  • Be Here Now
    , contributor
    Comments (4540) | Send Message
     
    Not without thoroughly understanding how the 2x leveraged ETNs work. If you don't educate yourself, you could have a nasty surprise if we have another really bad market crash and the midstream MLPs, as represented by the Alerian MLP Infrastructure Index, drops by 30% within any one month from its value at the start of the month.

     

    The surprise is a feature of all of the 2x leveraged ETNs from UBS - (NYSEARCA:BDCL), (NYSEARCA:CEFL), (NYSEARCA:DVHL), (NYSEARCA:MLPL), (NYSEARCA:MORL), etc - called 'automatic acceleration' or simply acceleration. I described this feature briefly in another comment: http://bit.ly/RLODeB

     

    For the full treatment, get the prospectus supplement at the UBS web site: http://bit.ly/WHlsNn

     

    Once you have absorbed that material, you may conclude like me that MLPL looks very good at the right price. The underlying index has been on a tear this year, up 17% the last 6 months, and MLPL is up 34%. Right now MLPL is priced on the secondary market (where people like you and me trade) at $68.54. I bought earlier this year at ~62. I plan to buy more but not at the current level.

     

    If you get the MLPL factsheet, note that UBS has made a glaring error. They make the following false statement:

     

    "Because the MLP structure requires the distribution of at least 90% of an MLP’s income to investors..."

     

    Totally untrue. There is no statutory requirement for any MLP to distribute anything.
    27 Jul 2014, 12:10 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » BHN

     

    Thanks for the input , Elliot ...I also appreciate the education both of you are giving the followers..

     

    Priceless !! and much appreciated >>>
    27 Jul 2014, 12:14 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7071) | Send Message
     
    Al,

     

    "Has your choice of balance preserved capital"

     

    My goals don't require preservation of capital, I aim to preserve income. And yes, my diversification has done that (and so far it has also preserved capital).
    27 Jul 2014, 07:08 AM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (8099) | Send Message
     
    Well done PendragonY you are a Jedi.
    27 Jul 2014, 07:14 AM Reply Like
  • elliot_mllr
    , contributor
    Comments (1381) | Send Message
     
    Interesing Times:
    Before you consider an ETN bear in mind that distributions from an ETN are not tax deferred.
    Elliot
    25 Jul 2014, 10:47 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Elliott

     

    You pay no taxes if invested in a ROTH account. Am I mistaken with ETN ??
    25 Jul 2014, 01:46 PM Reply Like
  • COBeeMan
    , contributor
    Comments (1432) | Send Message
     
    You paid taxes on the money you put in the ROTH IRA, but everything that is earned within and that comes out is tax free (not just deferred).
    25 Jul 2014, 10:08 PM Reply Like
  • elliot_mllr
    , contributor
    Comments (1381) | Send Message
     
    IT:
    If you already have funds in a Roth you can invest it in an ETN and remove the funds tax free, but if you need to put funds into the Roth to buy the ETN you must put in after-tax dollars.
    Elliot
    26 Jul 2014, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Elliot

     

    Ok, that I understand..
    26 Jul 2014, 03:26 PM Reply Like
  • madpup
    , contributor
    Comments (57) | Send Message
     
    Unless you are getting free money in a 401K (company match or contribution), the tax free Roth in my opinion beats any tax deferred investment vehicle out there. Plus, you don't have to be in bed with the Federal Gov't.
    25 Jul 2014, 10:20 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » MAD

     

    I was self employed, then I had a bad car accident. So no matching of free money for me. !!
    26 Jul 2014, 11:27 PM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (8099) | Send Message
     
    Any financial structure is complicated and unique from individual to individual but the simpler the better.And the more independent from all concerned the better also.
    26 Jul 2014, 08:55 AM Reply Like
  • Be Here Now
    , contributor
    Comments (4540) | Send Message
     
    Additional MLP educational materials are at the NAPTP web site: http://naptp.org
    26 Jul 2014, 11:18 PM Reply Like
  • madpup
    , contributor
    Comments (57) | Send Message
     
    IT, I have NML on my watch list as a possible purchase since MLPL is so overpriced in comparison. Even though it has ROC, I still believe it could be suitable for me and my Roth. Best regards.
    29 Jul 2014, 09:13 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » MADPUP

     

    Thanks for sharing that !
    29 Jul 2014, 11:32 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12205) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Any update on this group for the lurkers ?
    28 Sep 2014, 09:38 AM Reply Like
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