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John Wilson
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Long term buyer and holder of silver. I still have silver from when it used to be the actual US money- when it had intrinsic value. I plan to hold it and hopefully accumulate more. Began investing and charting on paper in the late 1980's (hey, a computer cost $5000 then). On Gold: it's not that... More
  • The Healthcare Fallacy 168 comments
    Nov 6, 2013 12:51 AM | about stocks: MON, BAX, MRK

    The Fallacy of Healthcare in the United States, ... that our Healthcare system delivers "health."

    (forgive me for pulling some stats from Wikipedea, but I was pressed for time)

    Yes, "healthcare" is expensive. Health care spending in the US per capita is $8,608, the highest of any nation on earth. While we spend the most, our health care system finishes in virtually last place among the so called more civilized, technologically advanced and wealthy nations.

    "Of 17 high-income countries studied by the National Institutes of Health in 2013, the United States had the highest or near-highest prevalence of infant mortality, heart and lung disease, sexually transmitted infections, adolescent pregnancies, injuries, homicides, and disability." Healthcare in the United States. Wikipedia.

    Read that again. The US has the near-highest infant mortality rate of the richest nations. We have the most aggressive vaccination schedule, yet we have the highest infant mortality.

    The system that we refer to as "healthcare," that supposedly exists to treat and cure sickness, and that we place such high priority on - as if we will die if we cannot have access to it, - this system is sham; a fallacy; a failure; a lie. The title of the system, "Healthcare System" is a misnomer. A more appropriate title would be "sick care," "drug care" or perhaps, "symptom treatment." The US "healthcare" system does nothing to prevent disease or create personal health. The primary emphasis is on treating symptoms without understanding what caused the symptoms in the first place.

    Here is what health service is in the US:

    Spending up to 25% of your income on health insurance; getting vaccines, check ups, then getting prescriptions for drugs, then getting prescriptions for more drugs, then having operations and spending time in hospitals, and then getting cancer, and then chemo, then running out of money, Hospice, then dying. Does that sound like "health?" That's what we're being sold as Healthcare.

    I will not use the word "patient(s)" in the medical sense (doctor's patient), in this article. Instead, I will use the word "consumer," as the system seeks to maximize consumption of medical services and products, until the the user is "consumed." So you see, "consumer has a double meaning.

    It should be obvious that for all the research, medicine, treatments and facilities, that the promise of medical research has not delivered "health".

    We have more and newer diseases:

    • More obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease, mental illness, Alzheimer's, autism,
    • Newer diseases created by medical research: lyme disease, MRSA; (likely, HIV/AIDS, and new variants of influenza, and bird flu)
    • Diseases of unknown origin: Gulf War Syndrome, morgellons, PTSD, just to name a few;
    • and invented diseases: ADHD., not only in children, but now adult ADHD. "Requires" life-long medication.

    What happened with the "War an Cancer?" Nixon signed the National Cancer Act in 1971. Where is the cure we were supposed to have? Doesn't this tell us that this is all about money? Of course they are still raising money to do research. I'm sure the cure must be just within reach now. Your donation will make a difference.

    I would like to define the system that is considered to be "health care" in the US.

    The "Health Care" system is the corporate, governmental and educational system in the US that controls the commerce and delivery of services (and drugs) that are defined as health services. The system controls the definitions of disease and treatments. It controls the educational system for training those who work in the healthcare industry and in the government bureaucratic agencies. It controls the substances (approved drugs) that may be used to treat disease. It goes as far as to control the information that may be given to the public: information that could provide natural cures, that cannot be patented is criminalized by the FDA.

    The system is a web of government and corporate alliances. This "web" is not a conspiracy theory but an actual network of interconnected government agencies, corporations & media and universities. The UN belongs to the system too. The "Stakeholders" in the "National Vaccine Program" reflect the pervasiveness of this web: HHS, CDC, CMS, FDA, the military, DARPA, teaching and research universities, State and local governments, pharmaceutical corporations, insurance providers, the UN and WHO, UNESCO, in all about three pages of entities. And don't forget the White House.

    http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/vacc_plan/2010%20Plan/appendix5.pdf

    This system has no interest in providing true health. The best it can do is the "Food Pyramid". The food that the average US consumer consumes, has become a mix of GMO by-products tainted with chemicals and preservatives in a box or package. Food allergies and unknown allergies have become problematic and have increased as GMO food consumption has increased. The FDA lets corporations like Monsanto have their own way with our food supply -because corporate Monsanto lawyers work in the FDA. Key FDA positions are populated with lawyers and officers from Merk and Monsanto.

    Prevention as far as the HHS ad CDC is concerned, means vaccinations and mammograms. They don't care about health or prevention. It's not even in their vocabulary except in terms of getting vaccines. Do vaccinations prevent disease? Remember that US babies are the most vaccinated on earth, and also have close to the highest mortality rate of wealthy nations. Senior citizens are encouraged to get flu shots as their effectiveness decreases with age, being virtually useless after age 65, though the side effects and toxic metals in the flu shot are no less dangerous.

    If the medical establishment, pharmaceutical industry and government was really concerned about health, they would allow us to practice true preventative measures, allow us to have natural food, allow us to have natural treatments and non FDA (drug cartel) approved treatments

    Healthcare in the US is all about how the pharmaceutical industry and medical establishment are enabled to get high rates for their products and mandated services. ACA "Affordable Healthcare Act" makes sure that people will be required to have insurance to pay for medical services that they are virtually required to have. For the average US health consumer (health care is all about consuming health services), prescription drugs are the primary product and emphasis. Virtually the only function of medical doctors is to determine if you need to have drugs prescribed for you. It is very common for health consumers to have a formulary list of 15 to even 30 prescription drugs that they take.

    It always starts out with one or two drugs ...

    ...that are prescribed because a consumer had some kind of symptom. After taking the drugs, a new symptom may occur. This is treated as a new disease. Additional drugs are prescribed. As the person ages and his/her health also declines while taking the drugs and getting the recommended yearly vaccinations, new physical problems occur and new drugs are prescribed. Eventually, because the food most people eat is garbage, new health problems will occur and new drugs will be prescribed. The doctors do not have the time to analyze the possible drug interaction side affects and even if they did, it would be impossible to know how 20 separate drugs will interact. The medical doctor almost never focuses on life-style and nutritional problems. There is no chemical deficiency in the human body that must be satisfied by a statin drug. The drug prescription cycle is a death cycle.

    I am 62 years old and I do not take any prescripiton drugs. I will never get on the prescription drug train. It's like smoking. Once you start prescription drugs, how do you stop? What is the exit strategy? Do doctors eventually wind down the drugs a patient is on, or do they keep adding more? Many drugs are prescribed for life. What is the exit strategy? The exit strategy is death - and maybe a penniless death after all your money has gone to the insurance and drug companies.

    I regret that this position may be offensive to some people as they may have a personal and health investment in the health care/medical system, e.g. you may be relying on prescription drugs for some condition. I understand the emotional conflict. People feel like there is no alternative to drugs and the medical system.

    And actually, we are conditioned by the system to think exactly that, - that there is no alternative. I believe in second opinions. I believe in questioning the established order and in independent thinking. I believe in making an independent choice that is not swayed by corporate product advertising.

    -- I have opted out of the US health care system.

    As a disclaimer, I do not give medical advice; I do not advise that the reader should discontinue any drug(s) prescribed by his/her doctor. My views on this topic are entirely my own opinion.

    My next installment on the topic of Health Care will discuss the political motives and possible economic consequences of the government controlled Health Care.

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Comments (168)
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  • WMARKW
    , contributor
    Comments (10672) | Send Message
     
    JW, good article. Will come back later for more comments.
    6 Nov 2013, 09:03 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » WMARKW

     

    Thanks. A compliment from you is highly regarded.

     

    I cannot believe I spelled "Fallacy" in the title incorrectly. I had three "l"s Falllacy.

     

    To make things more interesting, I added three stock tags to the blog: MON, MRK and BAX. Maybe get some dissension.
    6 Nov 2013, 08:18 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John Wilson,

     

    Despite your dramatic title and emphatic tone, this article isn't very good. Its filled with errors and misinterpretation of statistics.

     

    Let's start with your assertion that the US more infants die early in the US than in other industrialized countries. You apparently are unaware that the studies that made this claim, based on reported infant mortality rates failed to account for differences in how the various countries report such deaths. As has been widely reported, the countries that seemed to do better than the US all had cases that were reported as still births that in the US would be recorded as infant mortality. Add to that that infant mortality is a pure measure of the effectiveness of a healthcare system, as it is very much effected by lifestyle choices of the mother.

     

    The next set of errors you make are related to claiming that the prevalence of "heart and lung disease, sexually transmitted infections, adolescent pregnancies, injuries, homicides, and disability" has anything to do with how effective the health care system is. ALL of these are controlled entirely by personal lifestyle choices (even getting a disability is to some extent a matter of personal lifestyle choice).

     

    Then you go over the edge with claims like the following: "Newer diseases created by medical research: lyme disease, MRSA; (likely, HIV/AIDS, and new variants of influenza, and bird flu)". None of these are created by medical reseach, NONE. Yes MRSA is the result of over use of antibiotics, but that isn't medical research.

     

    Then you go on to make dangerous claims based on false information like "Remember that US babies are the most vaccinated on earth, and also have close to the highest mortality rate of wealthy nations. Senior citizens are encouraged to get flu shots as their effectiveness decreases with age, being virtually useless after age 65, though the side effects and toxic metals in the flu shot are no less dangerous."

     

    First, your linkage of infant mortality and vaccinations is wrong on several fronts (as infant mortality isn't as high as your claim) including the fact that you haven't shown that babies are dying from diseases they are vaccinated against (or even dying from the side effects of vaccines).

     

    Second, flu vaccines are quite effective. Yes, their effectiveness does decrease with age, but they are in no way useless by age 65. Side effects are fairly minor and rare. And there are no toxic metals in them.

     

    Also, if you want to see how effective the US healthcare system is, perhaps you might look for sources other than those who set up their measurements so as to give single payer government run systems higher grades.

     

    And perhaps you should look at cancer survival rates, which for just about all types of cancer are higher in the US than anywhere else. And that is even despite the fact that some countries have on average earlier diagnosis than the US. That might explain why lots of people from the rest of the world come here when they need to be treated for cancer or other serious medical conditions.

     

    Or you might want to look at wait times for standard diagnostic tests or routine surgical procedures.
    6 Jul 2014, 07:36 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    Pen wrote: "Also, if you want to see how effective the US healthcare system is, perhaps you might look for sources other than those who set up their measurements so as to give single payer government run systems higher grades."

     

    How about we look at the government Healthcare at the V A !!!!!!!

     

    Yea ,now tell us they should be the one's to tell us what we are required to pay for and what we can't have. The Obama takeover of American healthcare will be the BIGGEST debacle in our U.S. history and a pox on his house and the sellout (Judas) John Roberts ! Any questions?

     

    http://bit.ly/TMEFdZ
    6 Jul 2014, 08:25 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Pendragon
    You say that, " None of these [diseases I mentioned] are created by medical research, NONE"

     

    You do not know that. Also you probably don't want to find out if it is true, either. I can tell that you are of the school that reasons, --

     

    "If a tree fell in the woods and I did not see it, then it did not happen"

     

    I have read enough to be convinced that it is true. I will give you clear and good examples of research creating disease:

     

    "Researchers in the Netherlands have created a mutated, highly contagious form of the deadly H5N1 bird flu strain that some fear could kill millions"

     

    http://abcn.ws/1ziTHt9

     

    And here you go, they are recreating the so-called "Spanish Influenza" of 1918, that could kill 50 mln
    http://bit.ly/1ziTHJm

     

    A story that was virtually blacked out in 2009 -10 and that is outrageously incredulous, was Baxter International patenting a Bird flu virus vaccine and marketing it in Europe at the end of 2009. Then Baxter who is also a flu vaccine maker sent H1N1 vaccine material to east Europe in early 2010. Before it was distributed, thankfully, a lab tech tested it and it was found to be contaminated with, guess what? Bird flu virus!
    http://bit.ly/1ziTKoK
    Unintentional? Bird flu virus is a BSL3 pathogen. This level precludes accidents. The US press covered for them, killed the story. They lied their way out of it.

     

    Pendragon, they are working 24/7 as we speak to create new diseases. We brought Nazi scientists from Germany and continued their research and it continues to this day.

     

    You must not read the news. If you did you would have heard that in June '14 lab techs were exposed to anthrax at, of course, a research center, where they were doing, just like I have been saying working on anthrax. The US has weaponized anthrax if you didn't know.

     

    You ignored much of what I wrote. You are probably in the medical profession and have a vested interest in pharmaceuticals or prescription medicine.

     

    I doubt that you want to have proof. If it is offered to you , you will probably try to find grounds to dismiss it.

     

    If a tree falls in the woods, and I did not see it, then it did not happen.
    6 Jul 2014, 11:31 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Pendragon
    It's the NIH, not me that say the US has the highest infant mortality rate of the top 17 high income nations.
    http://1.usa.gov/1jXQ01X
    page 2 & 3 summary

     

    Flu vaccines? You have got to be kidding. They are maybe only about 50% effective, and that is only at creating antibodies. Side note: the more healthy you are, the more "effective" they are, and the less healthy you are, the less likely they are to work. Really? So when healthy people with good immune systems get a flu shot they are less likely to get the flu than an unhealthy person who gets a flu shot. What does that prove? So you take Vit C&D and have a good immune system and you get a flu shot and you didn't get the flu, and THAT proves the shot was effective?? I have met many people who got sick after getting the flu shot.

     

    The multi dose vials do contain mercury. Maybe you should read the consumer information that comes with the vials.

     

    What I wrote was not "dangerous" Buying into the government and pharmaceutical advertising that prompts you to get every shot that comes out IS dangerous.

     

    Sorry, that quote mentioned,teen pregnancies, homicides, and other things that I was not focusing on. It was just in the context.
    7 Jul 2014, 12:20 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    You alleged that bird flu was created by medical research. In "proof" of this you provide two links about research on the virus, which since this research was conducted AFTER the virus was infecting people in China, isn't proof that research CREATED the virus. Your third link, which I grant you is of concern, is of a batch of vaccine that was contaminated with live virus of a different flu strain is also not evidence that research created bird flu.

     

    You have now added to you allegations the claim that we brought Nazi scientists here and continue their research. While that is true in the case of rocket science, it is entirely false in relation to medical science.

     

    And I will repeat again that you haven't offered any proof at all.

     

    "If a tree falls in the woods, and I did not see it, then it did not happen."

     

    Unless you have some other proof to offer, your assertion that it did is not proven.
    7 Jul 2014, 09:49 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    Again you aren't quite comparing apples to oranges on infant mortality. And again even after that, infant mortality is significantly impacted by LIFESTYLE choices.

     

    "The multi dose vials do contain mercury."

     

    No, they contain thimerosal. A very small amount that numerous studies have show to be safe.

     

    http://1.usa.gov/1r33cb7

     

    And again, all the diseases you mentioned (excluding the ones you have now walked back) have a fairly large lifestyle choice impact that you ignore.
    7 Jul 2014, 10:27 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Come on Pendragon, you know thimerosal contains ethyl mercury,
    about 50% by weight. There is NO safe mercury. All mercury is a neurotoxin. Multi-dose vials contain thimerosal. Vaccines may also contain Aluminum a neurotoxin as an adjuvant. It is not safe and is banned in almost all European countries and Japan. Studies? Yes studies conducted by pharmaceutical companies like Ely Lilly in 1930.

     

    Bird flu: Let me clarify. I said in the article scientific research created, “new variants of influenza, and bird flu...” I DID NOT mean that “Bird Flu” was created by research. I was saying that scientific research created a MUTATION of bird flu. My comment above clarified this and the story would have explained it further. Bird flu, which has about a 50% mortality rate is spread by direct contact. The researchers found a way for it to be spread as an AIR-BORNE pathogen. Pretty good work, wouldn't you say. Thank you scientists. Just wait until that virus escapes. But don't worry – Baxter probably is patenting a vaccine for it.

     

    As to the development of pathogens for germ warfare,and Nazi scientists, that is widely known and acknowledged, not disputed, and there is a lot of easily accessible material available. Yes, absolutely, the government had Nazi and other scientists continuing the Nazi research after WWII. True, Operation Paperclip scientists were mostly rocket engineers and weapons scientists, but some of them were medical and biologic scientists. It may be a shock to you that our government creates weapons grade disease pathogens and secret genetic experimentation that cannot be made public. If you want to follow up on this just do some research on Erich Traub, Plum Island, origin of Lyme disease, or get the book The Trillion Dollar Conspiracy by Jim Marrs. The truth is much stranger than any fiction.

     

    If your objective is not to consider, but to find a way to dismiss evidence that you do not like to protect your world view, I understand.
    7 Jul 2014, 03:00 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    "you know thimerosal contains ethyl mercury,
    about 50% by weight. "

     

    Nope, doesn't contain that compound at all. Try again son. Learn a little about biochemistry and biology before you make such claims.

     

    As for bird flu, I see you continue to walk back your claims as they are refuted.

     

    Plum Island, LOL.
    http://bit.ly/1r3V8GZ

     

    Please try to use credible assertions.
    7 Jul 2014, 04:30 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    Anyone putting thimerosol into a child should be prosecuted for child endangerment. http://bit.ly/1j9oHqv

     

    Thimerosal - A methyl mercury compound that causes severe, permanent nervous system damage. Mercury is highly toxic to the brain. You should never touch, swallow or inject mercury at any dose. There is no safe dose of mercury! Doctors and vaccine pushers LIE to you and say there is no mercury in vaccines. Even the CDC readily admits vaccine still contain mercury (thimerosal).

     

    In addition, National Toxicology Programs admits in its own documents that:

     

    • Vaccinations "...may produce small but measurable increases in blood levels of mercury."

     

    • "Thimerosal was found to cross the blood-brain and placenta barriers."

     

    • The "...hazards of thimerosal include neurotoxicity and nephrotoxicity." (This means brain and kidney toxicity.)

     

    • "...similar toxicological profiles between ethylmercury and methylmercury raise the possibility that neurotoxicity may also occur at low doses of thimerosal."

     

    • "... there are no existing guidelines for safe exposure to ethylmercury, the metabolite of thimerosal."

     

    • "...the assessment determined that the use of thimerosal as a preservative in vaccines might result in the intake of mercury during the first six months of life that exceeded recommended guidelines from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)..."

     

    • ..."In the U.S., thimerosal is still present as preservative in some vaccines given to young children, as well as certain biological products recommended during pregnancy. Thimerosal remains a preservative in some vaccines administered to adolescents and adults. In addition, thimerosal continues to be used internationally as a vaccine preservative."

     

    The report then goes on to say that the FDA studies thimerosal and somehow found it to be perfectly safe. It also states that vaccine manufactures are "working" to remove thimerosal from vaccines, but in reality it's still being manufactured right into the vaccines.

     

    By the way, this report also reveals that the FDA requires preservatives like thimerosal only in so-called "multi-dose" vaccines -- vials that contain more than one dose of the vaccine. Drug companies could, if they wanted to, produce "clean" single-dose vaccines without any mercury / thimerosal. But they choose not to because it's more profitable to product mercury-containing multi-dose vaccines. As the report admits, "Preservatives are not required for products formulated in singledose vials. Multidose vials are preferred by some physicians and health clinics because they are often less expensive per vaccine dose and require less storage space."

     

    So the reason why your child is being injected with vaccine boils down to health care offices making more money and saving shelf space!

     

    Learn more: http://bit.ly/1j9oIuD

     

    I've been told by numerous "skeptics" and doctors that there's no such thing as mercury in vaccines, and that any such suggestion is nothing more than a "wild conspiracy theory." That just goes to show you how ignorant all the skeptics, doctors and health professionals really are: They have NO CLUE what's in the vaccines they're dishing out to people!

     

    All they have to do is visit this CDC vaccine additives web page, which openly admits to these chemicals being used in vaccines right now. It's not a conspiracy theory, it turns out. It's the status quo of modern-day vaccine manufacturing!
    http://bit.ly/1j9oHqw
    7 Jul 2014, 04:42 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Thimerosal is only found in multi-dosage flu vaccines. And it has been repeatedly studied and found to be no danger to children or infants. Try reading about the threshold effects before you make such definitive statements.

     

    And CoinsK, your opinion on vaccines is dangerous to the health of every child (and even adults).
    7 Jul 2014, 05:28 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    I have been poisoned by Thimerosol,you have NO clue do you?
    7 Jul 2014, 05:48 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    You haven't been poisoned by the Thimerosal in flu vaccines.
    7 Jul 2014, 05:53 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    Did I say it was in a poisonous flu vaccine with Monkey blood and Anti -Freeze? Stop building a straw man.

     

    http://bit.ly/1j9y6hD

     

    Do you believe vaccines really work? http://yhoo.it/1j9ylt1
    7 Jul 2014, 05:55 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Is the FDA a credible enough source for you “son”?

     

    Thimerosal Toxicity
    “The various mercury guidelines are based on epidemiological and laboratory studies of methyl mercury, whereas thimerosal is a derivative of ethyl mercury. Because they are different chemical entities - ethyl- versus methylmercury - different toxicological profiles are expected. There is, therefore, an uncertainty that arises in applying the methylmercury-based guidelines to thimerosal. Lacking definitive data on the comparative toxicities of ethyl- versus methylmercury, FDA considered ethyl- and methyl-mercury as equivalent in its risk evaluation. “
    http://1.usa.gov/1j9E5mD

     

    From Table 1, same FDA url given above
    ** Thimerosal is approximately 50% mercury (Hg) by weight. A 0.01% solution (1 part per 10,000) of thimerosal contains 50 µg of Hg per 1 mL dose or 25 µg of Hg per 0.5 mL dose.

     

    There you go – 50% mercury by weight. Methyl and ethyl mercury are considered equivalent by the FDA. Go ahead and ignore it. I'm sure you will.

     

    “As for bird flu, I see you continue to walk back your claims as they are refuted. “

     

    Excuse me, but you did not refute anything. I responded to your accusation and explained that, yes, scientists have created a mutated form of the Bird flu that did not exist before. It is a form that may now spread “air-borne” rather than by direct contact. You are the one who is backing up with nothing to substantiate your allegations. You got it wrong about thimerosal and the mercury content and you ignore what I gave you about bird flu.

     

    Do you consider that article link about the Animal Disease research facility moving from Plum Island to Kansas to be “research”?? That article was a joke. You just found the first lame article and threw it up. LOL.

     

    Your only comeback is to deny any evidence offered. You have just demonstrated what I already alluded to: you have no intent to consider any evidence. Your only intent it to be able to find a way to dismiss stories, that would upset your world-view, even if there is evidence to substantiate.

     

    The things I have written about are not reported in the statist + corporate controlled media. One only goes where I have gone with this material, because you don't like to be lied to. Go ahead and get your info from corporate advertising and “The Ad Council.”

     

    There is no need to attempt to provide any more substantiation for you since you won't do anything with it and will try to find some way to dismiss it or simply ignore it.

     

    BTW since we don't live in a fascist state yet, (or do we?) it is our prerogative to exercise free speech and express our opinion about vaccines. To say that ones opinion to not get some vaccine is “dangerous” is getting a little close to fascism for me.
    7 Jul 2014, 06:45 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Excellent points Coins.
    We didn't even touch on aluminum, MSG, gelatin, chicken DNA etc that also is put into vaccines.
    7 Jul 2014, 06:50 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    I HOPE you guys stay civil as were seeing both sides of this argument. Keep up the good work !
    7 Jul 2014, 07:15 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Well, John, I see you ignored my advice to understand the threshold exposure issue.

     

    So, by your reasoning I suppose we should all stop exposing ourselves to Oxygen, because it IS toxic you know (you do know that right)?

     

    http://bit.ly/1jb3Xi8

     

    As for the claims you make about vaccines being dangerous, it has nothing to do with fascism, but with the fact that if your misleading statements cause enough people to stop getting vaccinated you put the health of large numbers of people at risk.
    8 Jul 2014, 08:03 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Pendragon

     

    With that last comment that you offered, you have abandoned reasonable discourse. Now, all you have left is "oxygen .. is toxic"? I won't got there. I have responded to all your allegations and accusations, and you have ignored my responses.

     

    For me, mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, MSG, monkey virus, chick DNA, etc injected into my blood, are toxic. I allow no "threshold" levels for them.

     

    Enjoy the salvation you have in drugs and vaccines. Sorry about the quality of life though.
    8 Jul 2014, 06:37 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    JW

     

    Thought you would find this interesting.. I don't understand how decades can pass without anyone knowing this.. A VIRUS NO ONE IS SURE OF ??

     

    http://bit.ly/1lS7Fbb

     

    ..
    8 Jul 2014, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Glad someone knew it was Smallpox virus. If it looks like a white powder and I got out on the street in DC, people could have been snorting it. Maybe that's what someone intended.
    8 Jul 2014, 07:03 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John Wilson,

     

    Yes, Oxygen at a high enough concentration is toxic. As are lots of things. My point, which you choose to ignore is that at lower concentrations what might be toxic is harmless or even good for you.

     

    But you don't seem to be aware of that. You seem to be all about generating hysteria.
    8 Jul 2014, 07:22 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/U2lGMS
    8 Jul 2014, 09:20 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » P
    There are certain elements that are toxic, poisonous, and have no benefit to the human body in any amount, even as a trace element.
    Mercury
    Aluminum
    Fluoride, (even if they call it elemental or natural)
    Lead

     

    I haven't had any problem with oxygen yet that I know of. I will refrain from mainlining it.

     

    There should be hysteria about poisonous Fluoride (rat poison) in water and Mercury (though they are curtailing use of it) and aluminum injected into children's blood steam. Generating hysteria is okay. You need to get people's attention if they are getting poisoned.
    8 Jul 2014, 10:16 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    But they are not getting poisoned John, and you should look up the meaning of hysteria if you think its okay.

     

    Fluoride is also of benefit. Plenty of things are of benefit in small quantities and dangerous in larger quantities.
    9 Jul 2014, 12:19 AM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/1lTy6gw
    9 Jul 2014, 07:40 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
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    Author’s reply » P
    Browse this:
    http://1.usa.gov/1lTzD6u
    9 Jul 2014, 07:53 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    So out of the millions of infants less than 6 months old that got the flu vaccine, only 288 had adverse events. And not all of those adverse events were caused by the flu vaccine, those are just those who had such events shortly after getting the vaccine.

     

    So yes, its clear that the flu vaccine is horribly toxic.
    9 Jul 2014, 08:44 AM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    Pen, What about all the old people that are conned into getting the flu in a shot?. A cup of coffee with a little bit of strychnine will kill you just as dead as if you just took a little strychnine.
    9 Jul 2014, 03:26 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Except for the nasal spay vaccine, you can't get the flu from a flu shot. And the nasal spray vaccine isn't recommended for those over 65.

     

    As for strychnine, it depends on how much you mean by a little bit. If by a little bit you mean the effective dose and not the toxic or lethal doses, then you will have a mind blowing experience. Alas the vast majority of people don't have scales sensitive enough to determine an effective dose rather than a lethal one of strychnine (so don't try this at home).

     

    http://bit.ly/1nfeHvL
    9 Jul 2014, 04:57 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    P, "Except for the nasal spay vaccine, you can't get the flu from a flu shot. And the nasal spray vaccine isn't recommended for those over 65."

     

    No they use it for the other helpless group ,children.
    9 Jul 2014, 06:08 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    In your coffee, kind of would be the "Lethal" amount if you add a teaspoon of it like you would cream,and sugar.Your mileage may vary.
    9 Jul 2014, 06:09 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Children, not infants, are hardly helpless.
    9 Jul 2014, 06:46 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Well, yes a teaspoon of it is well over the lethal dose.

     

    "The dosage for medical use was cited as between "1/60th grain–1/10th grain", which is between 1.1 milligrams and 6.4 milligrams in metric measures. In normal circumstances, the maximum dosage used was 3.2 mg, half of a "full dose".[4] A lethal dose was cited as 1/2 a grain (32 mg)"
    9 Jul 2014, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Pen

     

    I told you to browse through the data base. I am tired of doing your research for you.

     

    To make it simple, just download one of the 16M files and just do a ctrl-f search using key word "death." You will spend all day reading bout vaccine related deaths. Then there are data files going back to 1990.

     

    For every adverse event reported to VAERS is is estimated there about 10 that are not reported.

     

    Here are three examples:

     

    VAER_ID 518872 (this one shows that a combination of drugs with vaccines is a deadly mxture)

     

    ...21-NOV-2013 patient received third dose of recalled GARDASIL (lot number: J007354, expiration date 20-FEB-2016) (dose and route of administration were not provided). Secondary suspect therapy included FLUMIST which was given on 21-NOV-2013. Concomitant therapies included ADDERALL XR and CELEXA. It was reported that patient complained of headache on 04-JAN-2014 and she went to bed early that night. It was reported that "she never woke up". Patient died on 04-JAN-2014. Nurse has not been informed of the autopsy result so she could not determinate cause of death. Lab diagnostic studies were not performed. It was also reported that approximately 27 doses of the recalled lot of GARDASIL were also administered at reporter's facility but she has not heard of any other adverse effects. The outcome of headache was unknown. The relatedness between death, headache and GARDASIL was unknown. Additional information has been requested."

     

    ======================...

     

    This one is very distressing:
    VAER_ID 529028
    "Took Flu shot in January 2013 - the next day could not walk. Went to hospital was told had bladder infection - Live about 13 months. Could never walk again. Had flu shot in January 2013 - could not walk or stand the next day - was in a wheelchair until her death 1-2-14."

     

    ======================...
    Here is one where the patient, a 10 yr old was given FLAURIX, and then later -several months later got the flu and died.

     

    VAER_ID 527362
    "On 23 March 2014, 5 months after vaccination with FLUARIX, the subject experienced sore throat. No test for flu was conducted and no antivirals were given. .... On 25 March 2014, he was found unresponsive. A culture was took around pronouncement of the death which showed positive results for influenza B which was considered as a vaccination failure. The subject died on 25 March 2014 from cardiac complications and influenza B infection."

     

    Yes, he had heart issues. The flu vaccine finished him though. --vaccine failure or did the vaccine give him influenza B? Either way, if he had not gotten the vaccine he probably would have lived.

     

    These cases are very understated. These testimonies are also "dying testimonies" I do not doubt them.
    9 Jul 2014, 07:34 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » You can get flu from a flu shot when they (Baxter) put live bird flu virus in it. ANYTHING can happen to you when you get a flu shot. I talk to people every season who get flu shots and then are dying-dog sick for several days to a week or more. Coincidentally the sickness occurs right after getting the flu shot.
    9 Jul 2014, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    JW

     

    I have to agree with that. Had two family members get the flu within days of the shot..
    9 Jul 2014, 07:48 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    When sent to public schools and are treated like government property they are.
    9 Jul 2014, 08:14 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Proximity is not causality. And you know that John, or you should.
    10 Jul 2014, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    "You can get flu from a flu shot when they (Baxter) put live bird flu virus in it."

     

    Um, John, again you misrepresent the facts. Baxter didn't PUT the bird flu virus in vaccines intended for actual use but rather an experimental sample meant for testing was apparently inadvertently contaminated with live Bird Flu virus. And even had such a contamination occurred with a run of the distributed vaccine, the amount of bird flu virus was small and its not very communicable to humans anyway.

     

    "I talk to people every season who get flu shots and then are dying-dog sick for several days to a week or more."

     

    Anecdotal evidence doesn't refute statistical studies, and you know that too John (or you should).
    10 Jul 2014, 11:51 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Interesting Times,

     

    Unless they got the Flumist vaccine (which does contain live virus), you CAN NOT get the Flu from the vaccine. Yes, if you have ALREADY BEEN EXPOSED, getting the vaccine might not be of much help, but the vaccine will not give you Flu. It doesn't contain any live virus to infect you with. Proximity doesn't mean causality.
    10 Jul 2014, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    PEND

     

    You can be right. I have no clue about this stuff. All I know is that at two different locations family members got flu shots and within days had the flu, or flu like symptoms..

     

    That is why I am reading along !!
    10 Jul 2014, 11:59 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Yes, that's the stock response, "you had already been exposed" "if only you had gotten the vaccine sooner." That's the BS they always tell you.

     

    "You cannot get the flu from the vaccine." You may get something much worse than the flu such as Guillain–Barré syndrome [GBS], or something that they cannot even diagnose or have a name for. A combination of drugs and vaccines together is always a "surprise package." No one can predict what the outcome will be.

     

    Baxter's bird flu laced swine flu vaccines: it killed the ferrets (test animals) that have the same response as humans to the flu. Like I said, the H5N1 "bird flu" has a 50% mortality rate. H5N1 handling and management is subject to BSL3 (bio-safety level) protocol that is supposed to PRECLUDE "accidents", like ACCIDENTALLY putting it in vaccines. I don't buy the "inadvertent." Remember, they were selling H5N1 vaccine in the same countries 3 months just before this.
    10 Jul 2014, 06:43 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John, please explain to me how a vaccine that only contains DEAD viruses can cause disease.

     

    As for the Baxter issue, try reading some facts rather than conspiracy theories:

     

    http://bloom.bg/TVVinC

     

    And since you are alleging that Baxter intentionally contaminated the samples, what is your actual proof that they did so?
    10 Jul 2014, 07:52 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Pen

     

    I am saying that sometimes there are live virus in the vaccine, like with Baxter's shipment of vac material contaminated with pure, live H151. The live H5N1 IS THE SMOKING GUN and the PROOF. The vaccine material was not expected to be tested. Of course they will not admit to doing this intentionally, but this is strong circumstantial evidence. As if they are going to admit to it.

     

    Labeling everything that is hard to believe as a "conspiracy theory" is the easy way. Deny anything that disrupts your reality. Your Bloomberg article did not absolve Baxter. It only repeated the lame excuse they gave.

     

    Take your pick: intentional act, or criminal negligence. Because of the BSL3 protocol, it virtually rules out criminal negligence.

     

    "Accidental" does not cut it!
    10 Jul 2014, 08:34 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    Pen ,I have noticed when people accuse others of "Conspiracy theories " they are guilty of the Argumentum ad ignorantiam Fallacy : “An appeal to ignorance” argues that something must be false because it has not yet been proven true.
    10 Jul 2014, 08:39 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Coins -
    I will remember that one.

     

    Another similar one is "the appeal to ridicule" which is, if you cannot necessarily refute an issue, then try to cast it in ridicule. "Conspiracy theory" is a media trigger word that insinuates that any black-balled, or "killed" news story (that the media won't report on) must be false because THEY don't report it and only Infowars or other similar alternate sources report on it.
    10 Jul 2014, 10:00 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    "like with Baxter's shipment of vac material contaminated with pure, live H151."

     

    That's an oxymoron if ever there was one.

     

    "The vaccine material was not expected to be tested."

     

    Really? Since it was sent to be injected into ferrets, how is this not testing?

     

    "Labeling everything that is hard to believe as a "conspiracy theory" is the easy way."

     

    No. Accepting outlandish claims of malfeasance with no evidence is the easy way. I insist on evidence you provided only outlandish unsupported claims based on ignorance.
    11 Jul 2014, 07:50 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    CoinsK,

     

    "I have noticed when people accuse others of "Conspiracy theories " they are guilty of the Argumentum ad ignorantiam Fallacy"

     

    I am not the one appealing to ignorance. I have repeatedly insisted on facts, and yet John just keeps coming back with outlandish unsupported claims.

     

    And yes, a claim isn't true until it is proven true or at least shown to be credible. John has not done this, nor does he link to sources that do this.
    11 Jul 2014, 07:53 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    You are subject to ridicule because you believe in spite of evidence to the contrary in outlandish claims.

     

    And your thinking that Inforwars is a credible source just shows this more clearly.
    11 Jul 2014, 07:54 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    "The live H5N1 IS THE SMOKING GUN and the PROOF. "

     

    Proof of what? This was material sent to be tested. What would Baxter gain by infecting test material with live H5N1 virus?

     

    "the vaccine material was not expected to be tested. "

     

    Really, then why was it injected into ferrets?

     

    "Your Bloomberg article did not absolve Baxter. It only repeated the lame excuse they gave."

     

    Since I never said Baxter was in the right how is that relevant? And the Bloomberg article doesn't support your claims either.

     

    As for your claims about H5N1, to date there is no evidence that H5N1 can be passed from human to human, so what profit would Baxter get from this?
    11 Jul 2014, 08:05 AM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    Pen wrote: " to date there is no evidence that H5N1 can be passed from human to human, so what profit would Baxter get from this?"

     

    So why inoculate ? in·oc·u·late [ih-nok-yuh-leyt] Show IPA
    verb (used with object), in·oc·u·lat·ed, in·oc·u·lat·ing.
    1.
    to implant (a disease agent or antigen) in a person, animal, or plant to produce a disease for study or to stimulate disease resistance.
    2.
    to affect or treat (a person, animal, or plant) in this manner.
    3.
    to introduce (microorganisms) into surroundings suited to their growth, as a culture medium

     

    Would n't it would only be contracted from the primary source and NO epidemic could occur from that in our modern society .
    11 Jul 2014, 08:19 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Well, from what is currently known about H5N1 strains, they don't directly propogate from human to human. But they do move from birds to humans. And if a person tends to be immunodeficient, then they too might be at risk and benefit from a vaccine. Also, such a vaccine to a current strain of the virus does provide some protection to related viruses.

     

    http://bit.ly/1y36D4C
    11 Jul 2014, 08:56 AM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    But an alternative of becoming immune -sufficient would be a better alternative wouldn't it?
    11 Jul 2014, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    CoinsK,

     

    I am unsure what you mean by "But an alternative of becoming immune -sufficient would be a better alternative wouldn't it?"

     

    Immunodeficient is a medical condition caused by infections (like HIV infection for instance) or by chemotherapy or even by the use of anti-rejection medication (for transplant patients).

     

    At this point in time, the H5N1 bird flu strains don't spread from infected human to another human (or at least they don't seem to do so). So only those people exposed to infected birds or who's immune system has been compromised in some way are at risk of contracting that. Baxter has apparently produced a vaccine to the current strain of H5N1 and gotten permission to market it in Europe. They are apparently also allowed to say that the vaccine will offer some protection to a new strain of H5N1 (that doesn't exist or hasn't been found yet) if that strain CAN be passed between humans. The potential for profit seems fairly small here, as they can only market it in Europe (where most healthcare is government run) where sales and prices are likely to be limited.
    11 Jul 2014, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    Simply put ,our diets are deficient and we are taking friggin drugs for everything under the sun and ruining our health with them. We could supplement our diets with a just a few minerals and build our own defense for pennies compared to the drug company plan of selling a drug for every symptom we can possibly have.
    11 Jul 2014, 06:57 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    CoinsK,

     

    I don't think the word deficient is a word I would choose to describe American diets. And really no amount of "minerals" will provide you with the protection against a specific disease that a vaccine will.
    11 Jul 2014, 07:04 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    Immune systems that are working well keep us from many diseases . That's my point and I stand by it.
    11 Jul 2014, 07:06 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    "Immune systems that are working well keep us from many diseases . "

     

    Do you not understand that vaccines work by stimulating the immune system to produce anti-bodies against a particular virus? And those anti-bodies prepare the immune system to defeat infections by that virus?
    11 Jul 2014, 09:19 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Just making it up as you go along, aren't' you?
    12 Jul 2014, 12:12 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Pendragon

     

    You have the poorest reading and reasoning skills I have ever read. My statement, “...contaminated with pure, live H151." is NOT an oxymoron. “Pure” and “virus” absolutely go together. Virus samples may be “pure,” and if they are in a place where they ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE, then they are contamination. Just like the pure weapon grade anthrax virus send to members of the US Senate in 2001. You are supposed to be an intelligent person so I will have to conclude that you are intellectually dishonest. Poor attempt at obfuscation.

     

    I will give you a break though. About the Bird flu virus being sent to labs, you said,
    “Really? Since it was sent to be injected into ferrets, how is this not testing? “
    [you just became aware of this story 2 or 3 days ago I am sure],
    I will assume you just don't have a clue here, and not intellectually dishonest. Baxter did not send the 72 kilos of vaccines to labs to be tested on ferrets. They do their testing in their own facility company's research facility (in Orth-Donau, Austria). The Czech lab tested the samples on their own initiative. 72 kilos most likely were for distribution. You are not going to give 72 kilos to ferrets. You are just clueless, that's all.

     

    Of course Baxter reconstructs the narrative after the fact.

     

    “As for your claims about H5N1, to date there is no evidence that H5N1 can be passed from human to human, so what profit would Baxter get from this? “
    Pen – can't you put anything together??--- GET A CLUE. Baxter is in the flu vaccine business and had contracts for Europe in 2009. I already told you they were MARKETING the H5N1 bird flu vaccines three or four months earlier in the same countries. They had a stockpile of Bird flu vaccines ready to sell. The H5N1 was a mixed or combined with the H3N2 seasonal flu virus which is easily contracted. The two types could have genetically combined. The items shipped were fraudulently labeled to avoid discovery. THEY WERE CAUGHT! THIS FACT IS VERY INCONVIENIENT ISN'T IT??

     

    It is not that the allegations against Baxter are “outlandish,” its THEIR DEEDS that are outlandish or malevolent.

     

    Your comments routinely:
    <>employ misrepresentation, like alleging that I said that H5N1 was created by scientific research,
    <> Spew ignorance, like Thimerosal doesn’t contain mercury.
    <> talk like an expert on something [Baxter Bird flu laced vac -material 2009] you just heard about HERE for the first time (and you know nothing about).
    <> ...ignore the evidence I do supply like the VAERS data base
    <> You give false info again about SV-40, again something you probably knew nothing about two days ago. It causes bone, brain, lung cancer and mesothilioma and they did know it was in the polio vaccine. This is not conspiracy theory, it is fact. About 25% of the US population has it [SV-40]. This is acknowledged by medical writers and doctors. This is not “anti-vaccination” hysteria. Your false information is noted.
    <> Go ahead and line up for all the vaccines they tell you that you need [don't think for yourself] and will die without.

     

    Just posting a large number of comments doesn't give you credibility. You're more like someone coming along and taking a dump in my yard several times a day where I have to go out and clean it up. You don't refute anything except in your own mind. You sound more like corporate advertising or an Ad-Council propaganda-public service campaign for the Swine flu vaccine, financed by the CDC. In short, your comments are pathetically lame with a “make it up as you go, character.” You are a waste of time.
    12 Jul 2014, 12:48 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    I see, so its me who has a reading problem when you are the one who fails to read links I include in my rebuttals to your misleading claims?

     

    You claim that the contaminated vaccine samples were for distribution and not for testing. However read what the article I posted SAID: http://bloom.bg/TVVinC

     

    "The material was intended for use in laboratories, "

     

    "unintentionally contaminated samples with the bird flu virus that were used in laboratories in three neighboring countries, "

     

    "The Austrian health ministry reported the incident to the European Union and is conducting its own audit, Rosenberger said. In response, Baxter said it has put in place “preventive and corrective” measures that the ministry found satisfactory. The vaccine has been destroyed, according to Rosenberger."

     

    So to back up YOUR claims that this was intentional and a crimminal act on Baxter's part where are the charges or any information past the discovery of the contamination?

     

    And again, you claim that SV40 infection CAUSES a range of diseases, and the truth is that while some claim that this is so, its far from proven. The United States National Cancer Institute announced in 2004 that although SV40 does cause cancer in some animal models, "substantial epidemiological evidence has accumulated to indicate that SV40 likely does not cause cancer in humans".

     

    And still, despite the fact that I produced evidence that there was NO WAY they could have know that the polio vaccine was contaminated by SV40 prior to 1961 (near the end of when that particular vaccine creation method was used) because SV40 wasn't discovered by then and despite the fact that they had no way of detecting small amounts of virus until 1983, you still claim that it was intentional. And you maintain that you don't propagate anti-vaccine hysteria!
    12 Jul 2014, 08:52 AM Reply Like
  • al roman
    , contributor
    Comments (9265) | Send Message
     
    John i started the process tonight and i just realized i was supposed of last year in January of 2014,it was indignant and i have to work out the law with powers that be over something so personal and near.They mentioned vehemently many times over that the irs handles the penalty part.For the first time i didn't cow tow and wasn't disrespectful either but did tell the agent that this is wrong and aggressive and intrusive.And she said it's the law and i agreed.
    13 Jan, 01:16 AM Reply Like
  • User 7415181
    , contributor
    Comments (825) | Send Message
     
    JW,

     

    I've read this post twice now. As much as I'd like to, it's hard for me to find much to argue with.

     

    "The doctors do not have the time to analyze the possible drug interaction side affects and even if they did, it would be impossible to know how 20 separate drugs will interact. The medical doctor almost never focuses on life-style and nutritional problems."

     

    At the end of the day, a MD can do one of two things - prescribe something or carry out an invasive procedure. Education is farmed out to nurses, dieticians, physical therapy and others.

     

    A big problem I see is having too many doctors for one patient - a specialist in cardiology is going to be reluctant to change or discontinue medications a neurologist prescribed. Even if the patient hasn't seen the neurologist in a long while and it's unknown if the meds were meant to be forever or just for a little bit. And the patient's general practitioner is only going to have modest knowlege in either field.

     

    A pharmacist's job is to consider all the meds and look for side effects, but you have patients using multiple pharmacies.

     

    Don't know if I would completely opt out because bad things happen to people and health can decline quickly, but I do find it disturbing that seeing a doctor as frequently as possible for anything and everything seems to widely promoted. Like you pointed out, diet and exercise go a long way, but hey - this pill can make you lose weight - see your doctor!

     

    Anywho, good article.
    7 Nov 2013, 07:04 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » User7
    Thanks. I realize that people who have a condition like diabetes need to use meds like insulin, but what I am reacting against is the knee-jerk conditioned reflex to go out and get a drug for any condition that starts to develop rather that try to find out what's causing it.

     

    "Ask your doctor if (.......) is right for you."

     

    Worse yet is the prescription of drugs like ritalin to grade school children because the psych profession has a new condition they have decided to call ADHD. At my children's grade school, teachers would even suggest to parents to consider ritalin.

     

    The drug train is picking up passengers at earlier and earlier ages.

     

    But my concern goes beyond the practice of doctors. It is the pervasiveness of the system. Tale a few minutes to view the Appendix 5 link of the US Vaccine Plan and look a all the players in the three pages. It spans just about every power sector of our system.
    7 Nov 2013, 08:05 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    USER

     

    You have no clue how important the info you post is not only relevant, but increasing more understandable.

     

    People in you field are the Gurus for this information. Please don't stop !

     

    Place your thoughts everywhere....Including my chapters .. lol

     

    JW, Thanks for pulling this out of him!
    7 Nov 2013, 05:40 PM Reply Like
  • User 7415181
    , contributor
    Comments (825) | Send Message
     
    IT,

     

    JW's post makes sense. Against a whole lot of info I was taught in a short period of time. Well, maybe not - I was taught about how to keep folks as healthy as possibile, not about insurance. And which I was tested repeatedly on. I have a few years experience beyond school, in a field that caters to those that abuse the system, and I like I said, my intitial reaction was to find something to argue about with JW's post, but it's difficult.

     

    I'm pretty sure I know more about health than most folks, but I sure don't understand the system that's paying for it. Diet and exercise are free. Won't cure or prevent all ills, but the info's out there and it just takes some effort and time out of your week.

     

    I don't know specifics about your situation, and won't ask, but I bet you've got more than two doctors you see regularly, right? How many pharmacies do you use (not saying it's nefarious, but one discounts this drug and the other one discounts this...). How often do your doctors and pharmacists get together to figure out what you should be on and for how long? I'm betting not very often.

     

    I run into patients that take pills they don't understand for an unknown reason that were prescribed by a doctor they don't remember the name of. That's scary. And it's scary when they bring in the prescription bottles of antibiotics they were prescribed last year and the bottle's near full.
    7 Nov 2013, 06:26 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    My doctor on each and every visit has me list all my medications (even though HE has proscribed them). Its a relatively simple computer program to check for drug interactions. And if doctor has any questions, he can certainly talk with the other doctor's office to find out why a medication is given.
    8 Jul 2014, 07:26 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    JW

     

    Some powerful information. I didn't think you had it in ya ... lol

     

    Great work ! Thanks for participating with our small crew. We are learning a lot about each other..
    7 Nov 2013, 05:36 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » IT
    Actually I had to hold back some on this. This was a small dose. Didn't want to make it too long and provide too much information (that might scare people). My intent was to present a confrontation that shows the glaring contradictions and paradoxes that characterize our faith in the Healthcare system.

     

    I think this made the difference with User7 - to see the thing in terms of its end result.
    7 Nov 2013, 07:01 PM Reply Like
  • User 7415181
    , contributor
    Comments (825) | Send Message
     
    JW,

     

    I've actually been thinking this way for a while - it was a sad day when I realized that nothing I did, no matter how much learning and training I had undergone, was going to make a difference.
    7 Nov 2013, 07:10 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » User7
    Then you know how I feel doing the job I told you that I do. LOL :)
    Can't save the system. Just try to help people that are in the system.
    7 Nov 2013, 07:18 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    JW

     

    Off topic.. Did you see the original of this? I did not so not sure how to interpret this.

     

    Thoughts from anyone?

     

    http://huff.to/1hUr2Sd
    8 Nov 2013, 10:52 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » IT

     

    Read comment by Samwise below the story. His explanation nails it.

     

    "So some guy embellishes his story to glorify himself and sell some books. Tell me how that has anything to do with whether security had been requested. That's like exonerating Nixon during the Watergate scandal because the bellhop at the hotel lied about witnessing the the whole thing. It doesn't change the fact that it happened. If lying destroys one's credibility, then our president has certainly destroyed his own credibility."

     

    Benghazi still needs to be drilled down till the guilty parties are nailed - Obama and Hillary and whoever was directly under them.

     

    This story is diversionary.
    9 Nov 2013, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    JW

     

    Here I think I have heard it all. Might not understand it, but at least heard of it...You mentioned MONSANTO in your article and just yesterday a few friends dropped over and also mentioned it.

     

    Well I looked it up today....I think it would make a terrific article.. I was floored to be honest . Here is a link for those who are like me.

     

    http://bit.ly/17Nq6xF
    10 Nov 2013, 07:24 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » IT
    That web page is exactly what I'm talking about. I just briefly touched on it. Spend some time reading its content.

     

    Monsanto is voted world's "Most Evil Corporation" year after year.
    http://yhoo.it/11rdguz

     

    Monsanto has been poisoning us and giving us cancer since the 1970's.

     

    PBC's: -- skin and lever damage

     

    DDT: --harmful insecticide

     

    Agent Orange:-- cancer causing herbicide

     

    Aspartame: -- poisonous and harmful in many ways

     

    (rBGH) growth hormone milk, likely to cause several types of cancer.

     

    GMO crops: This is a huge issue now. Control the food supply.
    Feed us food from grains that rats will not eat. Good example is the Bt pesticide corn. Poisonous.

     

    In short, IT, Monsanto is the present day equivalent of IG Farben.
    Do you remember who IG Farben was? I'll give you a clue: they made pesticides for a fascist government. Monsanto makes pesticide and herbicide products to poison both humans, and the environment. They are in collusion with the government. Hell, they are inside the government.

     

    Here is another link that lays it out: Monsanto's Dark History
    http://bit.ly/15TTBa2

     

    It is no exaggeration to say that Monsanto is inherently evil to the core.
    10 Nov 2013, 09:40 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Yes, DDT is such a horrible chemical. Of course its proper use would save millions of lives. But yes, it must be banned because if it is miss-used on a large scale it might hurt birds some.
    9 Jul 2014, 08:46 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    Well you just echoed what my friends said to me. One is a Nurse, another is very astute on this topic, another a Nutritionist.. They were teaching a few of us last night that's for sure !
    10 Nov 2013, 10:26 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    Funny, you just wrote a blog on medicines then just today the medical "experts" upped the ante on who should now take Statins...

     

    Interesting for sure !!
    12 Nov 2013, 08:43 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » IT

     

    people who should not take statins are those who do not want to lose feeling in their legs and feet, or hands and arms, and loss of muscle control, those who do not want to develop type II diabetes and eye problems like cataracts. Even the FDA is warning about statin drugs.

     

    Why not just stop eating stuff that contributes to bad cholesterol?

     

    Kids eat Big Macs and Whoppers for a regular diet, and the solution is to prescribe statins?
    12 Nov 2013, 11:35 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    JW

     

    Think this might wake some people up ?

     

    http://fxn.ws/IgsRfp

     

    Pretty scary isn't it ?
    25 Nov 2013, 08:45 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Yeah.
    But some people will never wake up. They only can remain sane if they stay asleep.
    Where do you find this stuff?
    They're going to use these to help protect us, right?

     

    "Ohio State University campus police got one, saying they would use it in large-scale emergencies and to provide a police presence on football game days"

     

    Tin soldiers and Obama's coming ...
    We're finally on our own
    This summer I hear the drumming,
    Four dead in Ohio...
    Four dead in Ohio...
    Four dead in Ohio...
    Four dead in Ohio...
    Four dead in Ohio...

     

    Soldiers are cutting us down
    Should have been done long ago.

     

    Yup, time to wake up.
    25 Nov 2013, 11:38 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    JW

     

    Off topic but I know you follow this sector..

     

    MREITs digest Anworth's 33% dividend cut

     

    The mortgage REIT sector (REM -0.6%) is lower on a bright green day for the rest of the market, with Anworth Mortgage's (ANH -1.2%) 33% dividend cut Friday night offering another excuse to Sell. Anworth is an agency mortgage player, investing mostly in adjustable mortgages. Anworth's new forward yield of 7.5% is so far out of line with the double digits of the rest of the industry, it suggests even more declines are in store for the stock, or big dividend cuts lie ahead for competitors. At $4.19, Anworth is selling for a near-30% discount to September 30 book value.

     

    Down the most today is American Capital Mortgage (AGNC -2.7%), and its non-agency cousin, American Capital Agency (MTGE -1.7%) is off sharply as well.

     

    Others: Annaly (NLY -1.3%), Armour (ARR -1.2%), Western Asset (WMC -1.8%), Apollo (AMTG -1.4%), Ellington (EFC -0.4%), (EARN +0.2%)

     

    Related ETFs: MORT, MORL
    16 Dec 2013, 06:43 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Yes, I saw this. AGNC's low was last week though at 18.84. Hope it holds above it. REM and MORL also are above their lows. It did sting today. I haven't even looked at my portfolio, but maybe last weeks lows will hold and move up from here.

     

    I am writing an article that should be ready this week.
    16 Dec 2013, 11:07 PM Reply Like
  • Thegeezer
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    There is a lot of truth in this article. With that being said a lot is changing since I started in this field 34 years ago. Consumer cost for those of you who are paying continue to rise while what is actually paid out per patient to hospitals is declining.
    Some of the cost drivers are popular. Everybody likes the lastest test or procedure. Electronic healthcare, More effiecient, don't beleive it. It has been listed as one of the top risk areas for 2014. Defensive medicine, a big driver that impacts treatment decisions product and software development.
    Lifestyle choices: these are starting to be impact via higher rates for smokers when it comes to purchasing insurance. I'm not sure though if it will effect people who recieve medicaid or don't pay a premium.
    The bottom line though is that cost from a government standpoint wil be coming down. If you are a buyer of insurance however, that may be another story.
    5 Jan 2014, 12:51 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Geezer

     

    Wow! I got another first time commenter. Honored to have you make your first time SA comment of my carefully hidden instablog.

     

    I will say that costs are not coming down with Medicaid expanding and with the Marketplace Premium Tax Credit. They doubled the cost of insurance and then give an unfunded tax credit to you so its maybe about the same price as it was before.

     

    Its like a Kohl's store sale. Mark the price up 100% and then give 50 % off. Smoke and mirrors. Like the Treasury issuing bonds (after a $1 trln deficit) that are then bought by the Fed.

     

    I predict that the ACA will increase the Fed debt.
    7 Jan 2014, 07:49 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    I shared this on my Facebook page.
    Here's my title with the link to John's article
    So this is the year they require us to report all of our personal private info to the government about how we "CHOOSE" to provide healthcare to our family. Can you think of ANYTHING that violates our freedom and the Constitution MORE?
    1 Feb 2014, 04:42 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Coins

     

    Thanks for sharing it. I have an inside view on the healthcare system. I do talk to people as a CSR, who have both Medcare and Marketplace insurance. I have done Marketplace enrollments. I will not say the name of the corp because they will fire anyone who speaks as if they were speaking as a representative of the company or what they do. I have had people crying on the phone about their insurance. They are mentally and emotionally enslaved to the system.

     

    They actually believe their life depends on having the insurance and being able to participate in this system.

     

    I have jokingly replied to a relative who is very conservative and religious who was worried that the current system would deny health care to the the elderly or those who could not afford it, "They won't let some people have it and they will die!" she said.

     

    I replied, "No, the ones who will die are the ones who are GETTING the 'healthcare' treatment."

     

    I know that's radical, but if you get 35 vaccines by the time you are 18 and then get various maintenance vaccines plus the newest like Shingles, HPV and get regular doses of radiation and an array or drugs along with bad food and mineral deficiencies, you will die.

     

    The polio vaccine that was given in the 1960's was contaminated with the SV-40 monkey virus. They knew it at the time. They gave the vaccines anyway. SV-40 causes several kinds of cancer, most notably lung and various brain cancers; also bone cancer and mesothelioma which was rare before 1960 but increase by several 100% after the 1960's. SV-40 is passed from mother to child before birth. It is estimated that 25% of the US population has the SV-40 virus.

     

    You notice this is never talked about? The "STAKEHOLDERS" in the US Vaccine Program (see above in blog) do not allow publication of this type of information. Everyone know someone who didn't smoke and got lung cancer and died. I have know of several people, some are children who got brain cancer and died. It is a "mystery" as far as the medical professionals are concerned why people get these cancers.

     

    This is just from one kind of vaccine. It just scratches the surface harm. Just look at the increase of Autism. A child can get an MMR vaccination at 18 months and get immediately get seizures and become autistic and even though their is a clear obvious cause and effect relationship, the medical establishment will vehemently deny any causation and do their best to smack down the parents and intimidate them into shutting up.

     

    Well, thanks again. There is plenty of reading material. A lot of it is on internet sites because it is hard to publish this information. If you want further sources I can email links to you and even papers I have written.

     

    Regards
    John (JW)
    1 Feb 2014, 10:12 PM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
    Comments (2559) | Send Message
     
    @John Wilson
    Clearly you never grew up visiting friends in Iron Lungs, nor lived in the fear that any fever could mean death or worse. Even knowing that a polio vaccine could cause cancer, in that era our parents feared Polio far more than some vague threat of cancer. In my childhood, nearly every year several of my classmates would disappear into that world of death and paralysis until the first Salk Vaccines were released. We stood in line for hours when a shipment of vaccine arrived, praying that they would not run out before your turn came. You had to live it to understand.
    By the way, Mesothelioma is almost 100% related to Asbestos. In over 25 years in Medicine, I never saw one cas not so related. It's far easier to point fingers and criticize than to go out and do original research. Misinformation disseminated to create outrage takes no scientific ability. Take your efforts out to find cures rather than scream how mistreated you are.
    19 Feb 2014, 01:33 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Oldwarrior,

     

    Contrary to John's claims, it is far from certain the SV40 causes cancer. And also SV40 was already present in the human population, although we don't know how prevalent it was. And, again contrary to John's claims, it is not true that the vaccine was distributed knowing it was contaminated. Prior to 1983 it was very hard to detect small quantities of virus. The invention of the PCR method allowed much easier detection of small amounts of the virus.
    9 Jul 2014, 08:59 AM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
    Comments (2559) | Send Message
     
    While late to the conversation, I would like to point out some fallacies in the statistics.
    #1 Infant Mortality: Miscarriages are not counted in infant mortality, only births. In most of the world, a baby born before 34 weeks and lives less than 48 hours is a Miscarriage, while in the US, most babies have a very good chance down to 30 weeks, and 26 week birth survival is not uncommon. At the very least, these babies live well over 48 hours. Additionally, the US has a high proportion of babies born to mothers >40 years old. After ~38 years, the mortality rate climbs almost exponentially unless the baby is born into a NICU.
    #2 Heart and Lung disease: Our wealth buys us the most appealing diets in the world. Not the healthiest; but the one heavy in fats, red meat, and the endless Fast Food industry from the restaurants to the "Qwik Stops". The Baby Boomers grew up smoking, and are now the aging population and suffering for our bad diets and smoking. It's not the fault of the healthcare industry that we committed slow suicide.
    #3 Sexually transmitted infections are reported through the Health Department almost 100% of the time, while reporting worldwide is neither centralized nor mandatory.
    #3 Adolescent pregnancies: What can I say? I'm a child of the 60's where we opened that can of worms. That said, Check the marriage ages in those other countries. Without knowing what countries, I cannot know the laws; but marraige in even early teens is not uncommon in wealthy Middle Eastern countries.
    #4 Injuries and Homicides: You cannot blame the Healthcare industry for injuries nor Homicides. We are just lucky to have great First Responders to keep more injuries from becoming Homicides.
    #5 Disability: Thanks to generous workman's Comp and SS Disability, many unemployed have found it possible to be declared Disabled, rather than fight for few jobs with low pay that has become the Norm since 2008. All you have to do is look at the increasing income disparity between those living on wealth created by their workers, and the income of those workers who create the wealth.
    I'll have more to add almost daily, but that is my opening Shot.
    19 Feb 2014, 01:24 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Old Warrior

     

    There is no misinformation and I am also not screaming about being mistreated because I am "untreated" (medically), and I will stay that way. I am pointing out that the people who are supposed to be receiving health care are "mistreated." I would scream about that if it would help.

     

    You cannot refute the fact that the LIVE SV-40 (Simian Virus) contaminated the Salk Polio vaccine between 1955 to 1963. SV-40 produces tumors in lab animals and particularly Mesothelioma in animals. SV-40 has been found in 60% of Mesotheliomas. (M.Carbone. "New Molecular and Epidemiological Issues in Mesothelioma: Role of SV-40." Journal of Cell Physiology, 1999; 180.)

     

    Do you actually think that the medical establishment would ever attribute mesothelioma to a virus that was transmitted through a vaccine? Of course they would not. The standard response is blanket denial.

     

    The polio vaccine was contaminated with this and they knew it and produced and administered it anyway while they suppressed this fact. Criminal.

     

    Jonas Salk is a medical savior and hero like Medal of Honor recipient Bob Kerry of Nebraska is a savior of Vietnamese hamlet children and mothers.
    Jonas Salk experiments on mental patients:
    http://bit.ly/1gYd4OF

     

    No one gets polio anymore from the wild polio virus anymore: "... the last case of wild-virus polio acquired in the United States was in 1979.."
    http://1.usa.gov/1gYd54Y
    Virtually all cases of polio now come from the vaccines themselves. Maybe we should eradicate polio vaccinations, then polio would disappear. I personally know someone who is crippled from exposure to another person who "shed" the virus after being vaccinated.

     

    You seem to have a big philosophical necessity in defending and rationalizing the current healthcare power structure.

     

    Instead of trying to attack my points which you have not accomplished successfully, why don't you take up the cause of your fellow veterans, the Gulf War veterans, 200,000 of them who have Gulf War Syndrome and who have just recently been believed, that it was not imagined or just in their head, after thousands of them have died and been permanently physically or mentally disabled.
    -----
    The US DoD and the VA are maintaining the "No knows for certain what the specific cause is..." disinformation fog of war regarding GWS. They are power players in the system I wrote of above; they are "Stakeholders" in the "National Vaccine Program"
    -----
    There is a cause for you to go after, if you really want to confront deceit and injustice. Why do you want to defend this system of disinformation?

     

    Your points 1 thru 5 don't really refute anything. Okay, so the Healthcare system isn't responsible for accidents, teenage pregnancies, crime, people smoking or eating bad and being sick. Did I blame the Healthcare system for shootings and homicides? The behavior of individuals has nothing to do with the Healthcare system above. But you could say that it preys upon and profits from the self-destructive actions of individuals.

     

    Its solution for all of these behaviors: prescription drugs.

     

    You don't understand what I was saying about infant mortality. Our infants die AFTER they have survived birth and should have been viable. You figure out what this means.

     

    If you have more to add and want to come back for more be my guest.
    19 Feb 2014, 10:36 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    "No one gets polio anymore from the wild polio virus anymore:"

     

    And why is that John?

     

    "You cannot refute the fact that the LIVE SV-40 (Simian Virus) contaminated the Salk Polio vaccine between 1955 to 1963."

     

    Yep, turns out the monkeys they used to make the vaccine were asymptotically infected with SV40.

     

    "The polio vaccine was contaminated with this and they knew it and produced and administered it anyway while they suppressed this fact. Criminal."

     

    Nope, they had no way of knowing. SV40 wasn't even discovered until 1960 and prior to 1983 they had no way of detecting small amounts of a virus.

     

    "Virtually all cases of polio now come from the vaccines themselves. Maybe we should eradicate polio vaccinations, then polio would disappear. I personally know someone who is crippled from exposure to another person who "shed" the virus after being vaccinated."

     

    In the US, that is where most cases came from. Not so in other parts of the world. In plenty of places without good vaccine coverage it is still in the wild.

     

    "You don't understand what I was saying about infant mortality. Our infants die AFTER they have survived birth and should have been viable."

     

    No, first some of what we call infant deaths are labeled as still births in other countries. And second, because of other factors we have higher rates of premature births (and even though on average OUR premature babies survive at a higher rate, the difference between pre-term and full term birth survival rates still lowers our overall survival rate).
    9 Jul 2014, 09:09 AM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    Warrior: Do you think STD shots for infants are a good idea?
    19 Feb 2014, 07:17 AM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
    Comments (2559) | Send Message
     
    Only for Abused, and the virus that causes cervical cancer. Shots are given as early as possible as the human body changes incredibly from infant to adolescent to adult; and in infancy the body is most receptive to building immunities for the future. I have read numerous studies that show that children under 2 have up to 6 times the ability to generate antibodies that adults do, and 2-3x the ability of the late pre-adolescant.
    In Infancy, the cells are so far more active that it is a true miracle. Most babies double their size in ~3-4 months, something that is never again available to take advantage of. I believe that current "Standards-of-Medicine" put ~ages 18-30 months the ideal time to vaccinate. Many factors such as allergies are apparent by then.

     

    Pediatrics are the true rebuttal for the statement "The US "healthcare" system does nothing to prevent disease or create personal health."

     

    To make such blanket statements about US Medical care shows total ignorance, and is an insult to the dedicated healthcare workers that give up family time, use vacations for continuing education, are called out at any hour (interrupting virtually every human endeavor), and pay a heavy emotional price in the midst of chaos and horror daily.

     

    First is pre-natal Ultrasound, which when done properly can detect almost any physical abnormality, including a world of cardiac defects that might be lethal if not detected before birth. The child is immunized, and can be taught hygiene and good eating habits. Later, Preventive Medicine such as Mammograms, Colonoscopies, Smoking cessation help and so much more are recognized as money well spent and virtually all insurances cover these types of procedures.
    If you have never seen a nurse cry, hidden in an ante-room until she can compose herself, or a technologist have to "Put on THE MASK" as they see the most horrible things but must hide it from the patient (and themselves to remain sane), then you will never understand the truth.
    19 Feb 2014, 07:59 PM Reply Like
  • WMARKW
    , contributor
    Comments (10672) | Send Message
     
    I understand deaths from heroin in Cleveland area now surpass the combined deaths from auto and murder combined.
    19 Feb 2014, 09:10 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Old Warrior

     

    Sorry, but Pediatrics as a medical profession is not a rebuttal of what I said above. If anything it is a confirmation of what I said. Look at pediatrics and you see an obedience to the CDC, AMA and the dictates of the pharmaceutical industry that is primary to the welfare of the family -parents and child. The priority is adherence to the CDC Birth to Age 18 Immunization Schedule. You don't believe me? Ask any parent who dared to question the necessity of the 24 shots by age 18 months. They get defensive - the fangs come out.

     

    Routine Pediatrics: Take the appointment, give the shots, send in the claims to insurance co.

     

    Doctors will even give various shots while a child has been hospitalized with a sickness and the immune system is compromised. "Hey he is here in the hospital. Let's give him the shots he needs before he goes home"

     

    You really need to look at your concept of what healthcare is: immunizations and mammograms? I will agree. These two items do symbolize he healthcare system. We could say the syringe and the X-ray machine would be accurate symbols of healthcare. I would also add the scalpel and the pill bottle.

     

    And I do know nurses and hospitals. My wife is a nurse.
    19 Feb 2014, 11:50 PM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
    Comments (2559) | Send Message
     
    Again, if you had lived the terror of the Polio era, you would understand that parents in the 50's, even knowing the risk of cancer would have opted for the polio vaccine. I lived in that fear myself.
    As for Gulf War Syndrome, that has been politicized by the government to defend themselves from the obvious cause for years, not the healthcare system. The VA just wants to not pay the Disability Claims. The source was the medication given to supposedly protect from nerve gas. The drug was approved only for Myasthenias Gravis. If you read the side effects of it in the PDR, it reads exactly like a laundry list of Gulf War Syndrome, and has been confirmed by UT as well as Duke University.
    Your contention that the Healthcare Industry is some huge conspiracy is the misinformation. I quoted your flat statement that "The US "healthcare" system does nothing to prevent disease or create personal health.", which is entirely refuted by the Wellness Clinics found everywhere.
    You chose to expect perfection from what is an art as well as a science. Ask your nurse wife how different each case is from another.
    If you want to see my introduction to healthcare, watch the upcoming "Battle of Dak To". I crewed a dustoff there. To have been privileged to have seen the great leaps in healthcare from '70 till now is incredible. The inventions of CT, MRI, Ultrasound(which I helped develop in a minor way in conjunction with Sandia Labs) has saved millions of lives.
    Clearly you are out to find some way to criticize every aspect of Medicine, and just as clearly you have never invented anything original to correct deficiencies.
    It is so much easier to criticize others than to create something yourself. When you create something besides words, get back to me. Until then, Goodbye.
    20 Feb 2014, 08:32 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Old Warrior

     

    I am not an inventor. If I was and I happened to find a cure for cancer, it would be the worst thing that could happen to me. The CDC and drug companies would crush an independent inventor who found a cure for a major disease. I ask again: Why has cancer not been cured in the 43 years since the government declared the "War on cancer in 1971?" Perhaps there is no intention of winning the "war on cancer."

     

    Why do they attack natural treatments? Why do they attack the efficacy of vitamins E and D with tobacco science "studies" that falsely claim that E and D may be dangerous and ignore intravenous vitamin C as a treatment against infections and cancer? Why are mineral deficiencies as a cause of disease generally ignored? The common theme is that these vitamins and natural substances cannot be patented. Therefore they cannot be allowed as a "medical" treatment.

     

    Yes, "The US "healthcare" system does nothing to prevent disease or create personal health."
    You still do not see that the medical establishment is not concerned with preventing diseases. They are only concerned with treating symptoms with obscenely expensive treatments and drugs.

     

    In my own personal experience, in going to the ER at a world class teaching hospital, twice for an agonizing abdominal pain, they were not even able to diagnose one of the most common adult abdominal ailments: they could not recognize a gall-stone attack. They did discover it accidentally after doing a number of unnecessary and unwanted tests. They then told me the only solution was to have it (the gall bladder) surgically removed. There was no other alternative or no possible cure according to the doctors. Fortunately the pain killer that contained some morphine cause the attack to subside. They said I could stay for three days and then I could get the operation. I decided to go home and do some research.

     

    That was three years ago now. I learned how to dissolve gallstones. It is very simple. What they told me in the hospital was a lie. I did have a large gallstone- that was not a lie, but that surgery was the only cure - that was a lie.

     

    My experience is not exceptional. It is the every day health care treatment experience - misdiagnosis and unnecessary drugs or surgery. What I have written is not in the least too harsh. Many other people have experienced far worse.
    20 Feb 2014, 11:36 PM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
    Comments (2559) | Send Message
     
    I am not an inventor either; but I was a researcher before my old combat injuries caught up with me, and took me from the pinnacle of my field to retirement. When I first started research on Ultrasound, we were looking at spikes on a green CRT as you see old WW2 Radars. We took it to the next level and developed a method to plot spikes above a certain (later variable) threshold in order to look at the spikes "end-on" and create an actual image that was "bi-stable", meaning there were no shades of grey, only dots. Later, when computers became powerful enough, we were able to get 8 shades of grey, and eventually 256, which is still the max needed. Later, I worked with other researchers, and we developed a way to use certain physical laws of Pulse Doppler to determine the size of a heart valve leak in a non-invasive manner. It took much confirmation in order to get Cardiologists to accept, as opposed to Cardiac Catheterization. The reason is the same that all new research must face, that being meeting "Standards of Practice". In reality, Doctors would love to do minimal tests and go ahead with the most conservative cures possible. What causes the extra tests and aggressive cures are the Lawyers. As an aside, by 1980, I could have diagnosed your Gallstones in <15 minutes with ultrasound, and they could have easily been crumbled to dust with high intensity ultrasound before 8 hours had passed. The problem is that Gallstones are a symptom, not a disease in themselves. Your Gall Bladder was not contracting to push the bile out. It is supposed to contract in response to fats in the duodenum. It may have been infected, thus after they were dissolved, the GB was able to contract again. By 1985 or so, the only reason to remove a GB would be occlusion of the Bile Duct. Everyone else could have been treated conservatively except for the lawsuits. People want instant cures for their problems and will sue anyone who deviates from the norm. How much malpractice insurance does your wife have to carry? If she is relying on her employer, she is in for a rude awakening. If a patient sues her employer, and the jury is convinced that she had any liability (active or passive), the employer will sue her for whatever % of the damages they can convince the jury were hers. Consider if a Dr misplaced a decimal in an order, and she delivered the ordered dose. In an actual case in the 70's, exactly that happened. The jury found the hospital 50% liable, and of that 50%, 50% (or 25% of the total award) was assigned to the nurse. The hospital paid, then successfully sued the nurse for her 25%. She lost everything they could take, and eventually her marriage. She may still be making payments. Would YOU be able to pay a ~2m award? Only when laws are passed limiting awards or protecting conservative treatments will "Defensive Medicine end. Caregivers are not the problem with healthcare, Laws are your enemy. Better you should run for office, create pressure groups and get laws changed. Those are changes YOU can make. Look up the amount of malpractice awards, and read what people sue over (and win). 7m to a psychic who claimed a CT scan destroyed her ability to see the future (real case in Philly). bend your efforts to freeing practitioners from the lawyers, and you will see the Healthcare community change incredibly. Every med I gave, every diagnosis I made was reviewed in-house for potential liability. There lies the costs.
    21 Feb 2014, 12:44 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
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    Author’s reply » Warrior

     

    The gallstone was confirmed using ultrasound. They should have done this first rather than the other scan - I don't remember if it was CT or MRI, it is the one that is equivalent to 100 Xrays. I didn't want it and it turned out to be unnecessary.

     

    They still do remove gallbladders routinely, especially if there are large stones. Taking out the gallbladder is as routine as taking out tonsils was in the 1960's They only use ultrasound to break up small stones.

     

    I believe that the only prescription drug I ever tried led to gallstones. Took a Lamasil generic equivalent for fungal toenails and may have possible side effects on the liver, which makes the bile that is stored in the GB. They monitor your liver with a blood test if you take Lamisil for any negative affects on the liver. I believe there was some kind of connection there, like perhaps a higher concentration of bile salts from the drug? Anyway the solution of medical science is to remove the GB. It is one of the most common procedures of all surgeries. They didn't mention "alternatives" except with the word "no" before it.

     

    From a paper I wrote:

     

    "There are over 700,000 gall bladder removals (cholecystectomies) each year (NDDIC) and an average cost for the lower priced laparoscopic procedure is around $12,000 (healthcarebluebook). For this one procedure, that is about 8.4 billion dollars each year added to the revenue of hospitals and clinics."

     

    Squeezed lemon juice, vinegar, a product called "Gallcleanse" will dissolve gallstones.

     

    Yes, lawsuits are a potential danger ...
    but not for vaccine manufacturers:

     

    "Kathleen Sebelius, has just signed a decree granting vaccine makers total legal immunity from any lawsuits that result from any new “Swine Flu” vaccine"
    http://bit.ly/1buJBwq

     

    "The Supreme Court ruled that federal law shields vaccine makers from product-liability lawsuits in state court seeking damages for a child's injuries or death from a vaccine's side effects."
    http://reut.rs/1buJCQR

     

    PS
    We can be nice to each other from no one as I see we are both in IT's portfolio challenge.
    21 Feb 2014, 07:19 PM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
    Comments (2559) | Send Message
     
    Was perusing this again and in response to your first paragraph, MRI uses no radiation. What they do is place you in a magnetic field many times the strength of the Earth's. That aligns all of the atoms in your body with their poles all in one direction. They then introduce a polarity change which causes the atoms to wobble. Each element then releases energy in the form of a radio wave unique to that element (the wavelength that is). By "listening" to the RF, the computers build up an image. The Radio Waves are non-ionizing, thus harmless, less harmful even than the RF emitted by a CB Radio.
    CT does use x-ray; but the new equipment causes less damage than a 2-view Chest X-Ray. The reason being that they use a tightly focused beam (often under .5cm in diameter, whereas a Chest X-Ray beam is the full width and length of your upper body. I really need to display a graphic image to show you how the physics works; but suffice it to say that the sensitivity of the receiving photocell is so much beyond what was required even 10 years ago that it only requires a few photons to activate it, whereas to expose film, or even the electronic plates used for large area exposures requires many more ionizations per cc of tissue. Part of the increase is due to the requirement of "Thick Part" exposures is due to having to place a lead "Grid" in fron of the film or photoreciever to filter out "Scatter". If I could use like 3-4 images here, I could do the equivalent of many thousands of words.
    In the case of acute abdominal pain, there are so many potential causes that it actually requires a CT to rule out the most severe causes unless something shows up in Lab work that points them to something specific. For instance, a high biliruben level would point them to Ultrasound as the next step; but absent a blocked bile duct, gallstones do not elevate the liver tests.
    The most important thing to rule out in acute abdominal pain is free air in the peritoneum, indicating bowel perforation-a true surgical emergency. Ultrasound cannot rule that out, even in the most skilled hands as the speed of sound in air is so much slower than in tissue that you get no return image.
    Now had they repeated the CT after injecting "X-Ray Dye", that would have been "Bad Practice" (we never say "Mal").
    With the new "Band-Aid" incision GB removal method, that really is the best way to go, as gallstones are more often a symptom of a sick GB than it's own entity. The exception being if you go for months without eating any fat, as was the fad in the "Protien Shake" diets of the 1990 era. The GB is supposed to contract when you eat something with fat in it, as the bile "emulsifies" fat, allowing it's digestion. Fat would otherwise not be able to be absorbed. Absent a GB, the bile duct itself has muscular walls to send bile into the duodenum. Lamasil would possibly cause disturbances in other liver enzyme tests, but has no effect my research has found on the physical ability of the GB muscles to contract. Liver tests like SGOT or SGT would have been abnormal had Lamasil affected your liver.
    The fact is that sometimes we just get sick without any reason other than bacteria or viruses just finding a place to multiply, especially as age creeps up on us. I reviewed some of my medical books, and found there is also a statistical correlation of "desk jobs" (sitting longer), and gallstones, as sitting apparently adds to "stasis" of bile, allowing the salts to accrete. There is just not a lot of current research on gallstones, as it is "boring" compared to all the new, fancy, and unusual-Things that might get published.
    <My P or P Rant>
    Remember that in Academia, the rule is "Publish or Perish". Thus research and teaching institutions generate tons of trash that has to be sorted through to find real original ideas. It's always easier to get published if you find something uncommon. The less common the more papers you can generate on it.
    16 Mar 2014, 11:45 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
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    Author’s reply » OW
    I have also heard that people who have their gallbladders removed still may have a continuation of the problem as the stones may actually be formed in the liver and not in the GB. That is why a drug like Lamisil that alters the liver in some way may trigger stones. There are "liver stones" and they may end up in the gallbladder. Is the topic of liver stones ignored when talking about gallstones? Is not the liver the primary issue here?
    17 Mar 2014, 12:12 AM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
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    I must first preface this argument with the disclaimer that the potential for structural abnormalities in the human body is endless, so there is never an "ABSOLUTE" answer, only that such an abnormality would virtually always be associated with other, more obvious abnormalities.

     

    The issue around gall stones is the biliary tract. While Lamasil may indirectly somehow cause biliary stasis in some part of the biliary tract, the tract itself is just a drainage system, and in order to affect it, it would have to be absorbed into the liver, and affect it first. For that reason, there would almost certainly be abnormal levels of liver enzymes in the bloodstream due to damage or stimulation of liver cells. Anything absorbed by the bowel enters the bloodstream in a system that enters the hepatosplenic system and is thus filtered by the liver and spleen before it can get into the rest of the bloodstream. It is the only blood system in the body where blood goes through 2 discreet capillary beds before returning to the heart (first the bowel capillary bed, the the portal vein, then the hepatosplenic capillary bed, then the vena cava and on to the heart).
    Stones may form in any region of the biliary duct system. Think of it as a liver-wide collection system like creeks-small rivers-larger rivers etc. It also is joined near the the sphincter valve into the bowel with the Pancreatic Duct just before they dump into the first ~2 inches of the small bowel. As with any human system, there can be abnormalities, even kinks in the system. As I stated, Gallstones are usually a symptom of a sick Gallbladder; but there is no "Wall" separating the tissue of the GB from the ducts. The GB is just a sac in the system. The entire system is composed of muscular walls with an inner and outer lining, exactly like the arterial system.
    Any drug, including alcohol, that affects liver function will cause the release of liver enzymes (the product of cellular breakdown), which is what the liver enzyme tests reveal, much as a heart attack causes an increase in the blood of the products(enzymes) of dying heart muscle cells. Stones that might form upstream of the GB would be unlikely, but not impossible, to enter the GB, as the biliary duct is usually a straight shot with the GB just essentially being a reservoir along side. Certainly possible, but who knows? It would be irrelevant in a chicken/egg manner anyway. There is no way for a medication to enter the biliary tract without passing through the liver and/or the pancreas first. There is no way to bypass that as the Sphincter into the bowel only opens when there is greater pressure from the biliary tract than in the bowel. It is a 1 way valve, and even if something did get in, it would be washed back out by the greater pressure of the pancreatic duct, and the Common Bile Duct.
    Again my disclaimer, but if you were that abnormal, gallstones would be the least of your worries.

     

    If you can get a look at a Grey's Anatomy book showing the biliary system, it would show what I mean.
    17 Mar 2014, 01:16 AM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
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    Not much to add to what you said except the the usage of ultrasound to break up gallstones and kidney stones varies by region and where the Doctors were trained. Remember that there are 2 competing courses to become a Dr. Either through the AMA or as an Osteopath. Osteopaths can do anything that an equally trained MD can do.
    21 Feb 2014, 08:50 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    JW

     

    Not sure if you saw this but I thought of your blog immediately..

     

    http://huff.to/1gsg725

     

    Please elaborate on this if you don't mind..
    15 Mar 2014, 01:40 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
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    Author’s reply » IT, sure thing.

     

    Why question the government. These guys are telling the truth. "Just get your damn vaccine. Just get your damn vaccine"
    http://bit.ly/1fZfRcc

     

    But before you do, and you have questions about autism...

     

    The Amish Don't Get Autism . . .

     

    http://bit.ly/1fZfRce

     

    Are vaccines intentionally used to spread disease.
    http://bit.ly/1fZfRcf

     

    http://bit.ly/1fZfRZZ

     

    Oh, and if you dare to question or challenge vaccines publicly from a public media like Katie Couric did in an interview with parents of girls who suffered adverse reactions or even death from the Gardasil vaccine, you will be viciously attacked by the media from all directions.
    http://cbsn.ws/1qGb2aU

     

    The industry will ruthlessly attach and destroy any who publicly expose vaccines:
    http://bit.ly/1d1WH5h
    15 Mar 2014, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
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    First off, where is the evidence (other than anecdotally) of a correlation between autism and Vaccines? Are there any double blind studies showing a correlation?
    Second, if Vaccines are contributory, why is it only affecting boys?
    We are setting ourselves up for a 3rd world type epidemic of children blinded by Measles, dying of Whooping Cough, and boys sterilized by Mumps.
    The problem is not vaccinations, but over diagnosis of Autism. Part of the problem is that the latest DSM has lumped many syndromes such as Asperger's Syndrome and mild Tourette's into the "Catch all" of Autism. Tourette's is directly linked to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, as well as drug use and abuse by the mother. Most of these episodes of "Autism" can be linked to drugs and alcohol, as well as smoking by the mother. Doing Ultrasounds on mothers who smoke, I can tell by the second trimester if the mother smokes by the damage to the Placenta. The Placenta goes through a natural degeneration process which includes the appearance similar to a liver of an alcoholic. A smoking mother's placenta at 6 months is heavily calcified, rigid, swollen, and at 8 months is barely functional. Parental abuse of their own bodies (men included) has been linked to birth defects since the 70's when cocaine became popular. We began studies through the 70's and 80's that proved that drug and alcohol use is the single most damaging contributor to birth defects and especially Neural Tube defects. As little as 1 drink a week, or a single use of cocaine, meth, or similar "Home Brewed" drugs (like Crack) or related stimulants during the first trimester shows a statistical correlation. Daily use increases the miscarriage rate in the first trimester 3 fold. Premature delivery is strongly correlated with said ingestion, especially smoking, as the placenta fails.
    The bottom line is that what a mother ingests is far more damaging than any list of vaccinations. It's true that introducing anything into a pre-schooler's body carries risk; but that has to be balanced against the devastating effects of preventable diseases like Polio and Smallpox back in my youth and the complications I listed above for the still present diseases. Is it fair to your child to risk those devastating diseases without good scientific evidence? You want your only son sterilized?
    JW the first link would not play on my laptop, so I missed that, but the second link was pure BS. I was raised among the Amish in Yoder, Kansas, and can trace my Mennonite heritage back to the 15th century in East Prussia. I knew 2 Amish children in Yoder who were clearly Autistic, 1 boy and 1 girl. The BS of the article is that Amish and "Old Order Mennonite" (Who are exactly the same) are scattered all over the country. There is no "One Single Amish Community" but hundreds from Pennsylvania, to Ringgold County Iowa, to Central Kansas and beyond. There is even a Mennonite 4 year college in Newton Ks. Hesston Industries was started by Mennonites, and the parking lot at Hesston had horse tenders, as many workers rode to work. At one time, they were the world leader in hay handling equipment. They invented the first "Large Loaf" Bail. They are human and suffer human diseases. The statistical reduction in communicable diseases is the result of isolation. Their resistance to many of the other listed diseases is common to ALL people from East Prussia, however cancer rates are similar to other population groups. I had an uncle by marriage die of colon cancer, several relatives die of breast cancer, and my own mother died at 90 of a rare cancer. The Author's claims cannot be verified for 1 reason. The Author was careful not to identify the community he chose to prevent someone cross-checking his claimed statistics. Most likely the community that the author picked out had few recently trained Doctors, thus no over-diagnosing. The author makes many claims in his articles without citing even 1 reference such as "No vaccine has ever undergone any independent, controlled, double-blind studies to determine safety and effectiveness." and on Hep B "It is only transmitted through the following methods:
    Sexual intercourse
    The use of unclean hypodermic needles
    Being born of a mother who is infected"
    Hep B virus can live up to a week on a counter top or table. It is usually best killed by 5% Bleach (undiluted Clorox or equivalent).
    That author's propaganda is as damaging as Government propaganda as he uses quotes like "The World Health Organization (W.H.O.) declared the Western hemisphere free of Polio in 1994." The Keyword being Western Hemisphere, when everyone knows that with world travel being so heavy, that claim can end in disaster should just 1 3rd world family settle in an un-vaccinated community.
    The reason the Vaccine makers were given such immunity was so that they could get vaccines out for new influenza strains in 1 year as opposed to the 5 that would otherwise be needed. Double-Blind studies are required for every flu vaccine for safety and effectiveness, just as any medicine must have for FDA approval, they just have to step up the process to prevent another 1918 type tragedy, when Flu victims in the winter in Kansas were stored like cordwood until the ground thawed. My father was one who had to stack them when he was only 15.
    Please read http://abt.cm/1kTT6sx- their-autism-rates-may...
    and especially her links including http://abt.cm/1iPXJPC and http://abt.cm/1iPXHr3 . She clearly has no axe to grind.
    There are certainly lies on both sides of the argument, and as always, the truth lies somewhere in between.

     

    As for the next referenced article, I stopped reading when the author claimed Avian Flu was more dangerous than Anthrax.

     

    As for the last referenced article, Vaccines were in their infancy then, any very likely mistakes were made. Comparing modern medicine to WW1 medicine (Pre Antibiotic, and almost pre-anesthesia) is a pointless argument. Certainly there was no one trying to make millions off vaccines then, and "Doctors" had less training than today's average LPN.
    Just 1 point though. If the vaccines caused the pandemic, where did the virus involved come from? It came from people already stricken, and the Pandemic was already underway. Does anyone really think that medicine at that time could create a Flu Virus in a test tube????
    15 Mar 2014, 08:09 PM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
    Comments (2559) | Send Message
     
    Edit timed out while I searched references, but 1 more here. http://abt.cm/1fKXpDb
    I misspoke when I associated Autism with alcohol ingestion. While alcohol ingestion can cause FAS, there is no association with Autism there any more than there is with vaccines.
    If there is any environmental cause for Autism, I would vote for atmospheric Atomic Testing above all else, as true Autism appears to have a genetic cause.
    1 last thing:

     

    The 2006 CDC Research:

     

    In 2006, the CDC conducted a large-scale survey to better understand the prevelance of autism in the United States. They found that about 300,000 individuals -- or one in every 166 people -- had been diagnosed on the autism spectrum. They also found that there was a slight decrease in the incidence of autism diagnoses since 1999.
    1 in 166 is NOT 1 in 88!
    15 Mar 2014, 08:51 PM Reply Like
  • CoinsK
    , contributor
    Comments (3681) | Send Message
     
    Some perfectly normal children have been diagnosed with Autism. After they were injected with who knows what labeled as a "vaccine". BTW, is there any defense for Thimerasol?
    16 Mar 2014, 08:44 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Coins:

     

    Thimerasol is in vaccines because it kills bacteria. It also kills neurons.

     

    Thimerasol or mecury is a deadly neurotoxin, one of the most toxic heavy metals that you do not want to take into your body, UNTIL a pharmaceutical company puts it in a vaccine. Then it somehow becomes "safe."

     

    Same with Fluoride. It is toxic and has a cumulative poisonous effect as it builds up in your body. It has NO USE or function in your body - not even as a trace element. It is deadly, UNTIL it is put into drinking water by your friendly municipal government. Then somehow it is rendered "natural" and beneficial.

     

    This is some sort of magic that we cannot understand. If Merck and our municipal government tell us these poisons are safe, then we are supposed to believe them and not even question them.
    16 Mar 2014, 11:20 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    1) Correct that Thimerasol is in vaccines because it kills bacteria (and fungus and yeast).

     

    2)Correct Thinerasol will kill neurons (and other cells too). But only in concentrations very much higher than what is present in any vaccine.

     

    3)Thimerasol is ONLY in multi-dosage flu vaccines.

     

    4)Fluoride does indeed have a use. It bonds with the enamel on your teeth to make it more resistant to acid erosion. And again, the amount one is typically exposed to (unless you eat large amounts of fluoridated tooth paste anyway) is well below the threshold that causes any neurological problems (in the US anyway). In some US areas you might get enough exposure to cause some discoloration of your teeth.

     

    5)Its not magic, its a well understood biological effect. There is a level of exposure below which a chemical has no effect (otherwise the arsenic in water will kill you), and level of exposure where a chemical (or drug or medicine) will have its intended effect and a level above which that it is toxic. Even Oxygen has an exposure level where it is toxic.
    9 Jul 2014, 09:27 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    confused.

     

    So what do I say to my daughter who will get married soon and I am sure have a child. Vaccinate or not?

     

    Or is there one book for her to read prior to making a decision ? She won't take my word on this one for sure .
    16 Mar 2014, 12:51 PM Reply Like
  • OldWarrior
    , contributor
    Comments (2559) | Send Message
     
    @ IT
    I personally would send her to this site http://abt.cm/1hqCeEf
    It is an open forum on the subject.
    Certainly there are as many opinions as people who you ask; but in the end, the decision is not hers alone, the child's father will also have input (Assuming he is part of the child's upbringing).
    Perhaps by that time there will be more truly "independent" research upon which to base a decision. Everyone complains that research is biased, depending upon who funds the research. There is certainly more than a grain of truth in many (if not most) research programs, but just maybe you all can get together, find a generous Berkshire-type (he is currently giving away money to good causes, or so he and Mr Gates claim) and instead of venting on forums, get some unbiased researchers who have no vested interest in the outcome. I personally believe that the same French Research institute that found the HIV virus would be a place to start-the French would love to embarrass the US by beating us to another such research coup. I do think that they could be trusted to be more independent minded than you may find within the US.
    Just my 2 cents worth!
    Also do not forget that you will find someone allergic to almost anything,(my wife is allergic to the "hypo-allergenic" silk tape so often used in medicine today for example) so the child's allergies may make the decision moot anyway.
    17 Mar 2014, 12:11 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    Vaccinate. The risks of not being vaccinated far outweigh the small risks of vaccines. Over all the years infants have been vaccinated and the millions of such infants vaccinated, only 288 have had adverse reactions. And some of those adverse reactions were not caused by the vaccine but just happened close in time to the vaccination.
    9 Jul 2014, 09:31 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » IT

     

    Let others who have had adveres reactions answer that question for you.
    http://bit.ly/1izcNSq
    16 Mar 2014, 04:18 PM Reply Like
  • howard26
    , contributor
    Comments (225) | Send Message
     
    Mr Wilson,

     

    I have never read an article that put any better than this! Excellent read. Although your article was hard to find (I think I got here linking to links that started in a gold coin vs ETF article) it is well worth the read. Thanks.

     

    I am 59 1/2 and not on anything. The rest of my siblings are, and my Dad has a boatload of meds. Some he takes to counter others. I got angered when he gets dizzy alot, and instead of removing those that have dizziness as a side effect, they gave him 2 more. At the time he was taking 13 prescriptions - 8 of which had dizziness as a side effect. He doesn't want me to take him to the DR anymore because I call the guy a "cash register in a lab coat". Only thing this guy knows how to do is write prescriptions. "If this doesn't work, come back and we will try something else..." Is he kidding me?

     

    And cancer? From buying the pink towels and jerseys at the NFL Shop to the Cancer Care Institutes............. cancer must be a multibillion dollar a year business. DO they really want to find a cure?

     

    And the ACA? Affordable? Seriously?? When did people start mistaking healthCARE with healthINSURANCE??? Seems to me this thing is really designed to subsidize the insurance industry.

     

    OH that is just the tip of the iceburg of my rant against the pharma/med/insurance/gov complex....... So I will quit here. But you hit it right!

     

    Thanks,
    Kyle
    29 Apr 2014, 10:19 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Thanks Kyle
    You are the 1 out of 1000 who is able to see this as it is. Your rant, like my article actually understates how twisted our "healthcare" system is. Tip of the iceberg is right. The most amazing and revealing thing I have found though is how the system is shoved down our throats by oligarchs and plutocrats: the pervasiveness and government sponsorship is evident in the "Stakeholders" in the "National Vaccine Program" referenced in the article.

     

    Something that is forced so strongly upon the populace cannot be right.
    30 Apr 2014, 07:20 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    JW

     

    So where is the plane? Best guess..
    I know how I feel about all of this. Wonder where your head is at !
    1 May 2014, 06:02 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » IT - see my comment on Conspiracy II
    http://seekingalpha.co...
    1 May 2014, 09:30 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    will do.. Thanks!
    1 May 2014, 09:37 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    JW

     

    Chikungunya virus contracted in U.S. for first time !!!

     

    Know anything about this baby ???
    18 Jul 2014, 10:50 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    http://nbcnews.to/1rquJ8U

     

    "“It is not known what course chikungunya will take now in the United States. CDC officials believe chikungunya will behave like dengue virus in the United States, where imported cases have resulted in sporadic local transmission but have not caused widespread outbreaks,” CDC said. Dengue has been seen in Florida and South Texas.

     

    “None of the more than 200 imported chikungunya cases between 2006 and 2013 have triggered a local outbreak. However, more chikungunya-infected travelers coming into the United States increases the likelihood that local chikungunya transmission will occur."

     

    The good news is people are immune after one infection."
    19 Jul 2014, 11:47 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    "Chikungunya is not usually deadly, but it can cause a very bad headache, joint pain, rash and fever."

     

    Have to tell you I hate reading something that says "not usually deadly "... Tantamount to almost pregnant ??

     

    Plus the article I read stated a few people in Colorado had it, this one said Florida !!
    19 Jul 2014, 12:05 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    The article I posted was talking about people who got infected with the virus without any overseas travel connection. Those people are in Florida. Travel imported cases average about 28 a year.

     

    Not usually deadly means just that, that it doesn't usually cause death, but in rare circumstances infected people have died.
    19 Jul 2014, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    Not sure if the article I read that said Colorado people were travelers.. Have to see if I can find it !

     

    BTW.. I posted some of this in the plague chapter as well..

     

    Thanks!
    19 Jul 2014, 12:17 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    There are only two types of mosquitoes that spread this virus and none are found in Colorado.

     

    http://1.usa.gov/1rqC5cs
    19 Jul 2014, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » CHILDREN IN CALIFORNIA WHO ARE ALREADY VACCINATED AGAINST WHOPPING COUGH (95% vaccinated rate) ARE GETTING WHOPPING COUGH IN SPITE OF BEING VACCINATED.

     

    "As of June 10, there had been 3,458 cases of pertussis reported to the state's Department of Public Health this year, more than all of 2013"

     

    Yet 95% of children are compliant in getting vaccinated. Where is the protection and immunity?

     

    Health departments accuse parents who don't get their children vaccinated against the whopping cough as guilty of allowing their child to die of whopping cough or being responsible if other children get whooping cough. You are criminalized if you don't get the vaccine. Yet it is the children who ARE vaccinated that are getting Pertussis.

     

    The promised efficacy of the vaccine apparently is a false claim. Getting vaccinated may even increase the risk of pertussis.

     

    They are "puzzled" because they got vaccinated like they were supposed to and still got Pertussis.

     

    The Natural News article summarized this story and gives links to local news sources in California.

     

    http://bit.ly/1naJXLW

     

    (Sorry, IT, I don't know anything about Chikungunya virus)
    21 Jul 2014, 12:00 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    Wow, do you even understand what was wrong with the article you presented? First it claims that natural infection provides life long protection, that isn't true (anecdotally a childhood friend had multiple incidents of natural infection with whooping cough).

     

    http://bit.ly/1nv9JMO

     

    And again, the outbreaks were caused by non-immunized children and adults, plus a cyclical spike in cases. Also the latest vaccine wore out slightly faster than past versions.

     

    http://n.pr/1nv9KQT

     

    http://bit.ly/1nv9L76

     

    As for the claim that 95% of the cases were in people vaccinated that isn't true.

     

    http://bit.ly/1nv9MIf

     

    "A closer look reveals that a majority of the hospitalizations were infants under the age of 6 months (76%) and 90% of the deaths were under 2 months of age."

     

    Since the vaccination schedule doesn't give infants less than 6 months enough vaccine to be fully effective, and the first dose isn't given till 7 weeks, its lack of vaccination that is causing the problem.

     

    Also the claim that DTap vaccine can give you whooping cough is false. It contains no bacteria at all, either living or dead.
    21 Jul 2014, 05:21 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
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    Author’s reply » Ha- it wore off faster than usual or maybe it gives little to no protection to begin with. Maybe Mike Adams erred in saying that natural immunity was life-long but it is correct that the so-called immunity from the shot is an artificial, temporary immunity that is now seen to be virtually ineffective.

     

    Also the gall of them to accuse parents who forgo the vaccinations and accuse them for the deaths of children, when they are at just as much risk if they get vaccinated.

     

    Also I believe he is correct that vaccinted children can be carriers too (if they can contract it - right?)

     

    This is certainly a vaccination failure.

     

    The CDC says they can get their first DTap shot at 2 months. Before that, it says that pregnant mothers can get vaccinated also to confer the so-called "immunity'" before the baby is born. That's more than enough vaccination if it works.

     

    Yet they still get Pertussis?? Something is wrong here.
    CDC says 6 DTaP shots from 2 months to age 6. Six shots and they still get an epidemic?

     

    "You have probably heard on the news that we are in the midst of a pertussis (whooping cough) epidemic in California. We have already seen over 5,400 cases of pertussis in California this year as compared to a total of 2,372 cases in all of 2013. In Yolo County, we have seen nearly 80 cases so far in 2014, compared to four cases in all of 2013." Constance Caldwell, M.D., Yolo County Health Officer. July 2014
    21 Jul 2014, 05:55 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    "Also the gall of them to accuse parents who forgo the vaccinations and accuse them for the deaths of children, when they are at just as much risk if they get vaccinated."

     

    Well, the data supports that. The areas with the most opt outs are the areas of greatest infection.

     

    "Also I believe he is correct that vaccinted children can be carriers too (if they can contract it - right?)"

     

    Care to explain your belief in light of the FACT that the vaccine doesn't contain any of the pertussis bacteria?

     

    "Maybe Mike Adams erred in saying that natural immunity was life-long but it is correct that the so-called immunity from the shot is an artificial, temporary immunity that is now seen to be virtually ineffective."

     

    I realize that you are ignorant on how vaccines work, but this claim is just untrue, the vaccine causes the body to produce the same anti-bodies as actual exposure to the pertussis bacteria does.
    21 Jul 2014, 08:01 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
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    Author’s reply » Pendragon
    "Care to explain your belief in light of the FACT that the vaccine doesn't contain any of the pertussis bacteria?"

     

    That's simple enough. The vaccine works mostly only in theory and very poorly in real life. The theory that if you can trick your body to create some antigens, then you will be immune to a disease only works part of the time. The whole immune system is not employed in this. It is not the real thing. You are seeing that it does not prevent contraction of Pertussis. Real life results show the theory is defective.

     

    This artificial process is likely to even compromise the immune system. It certainly does not strengthen it.

     

    Because it does not work, children contract the disease. Because they contract the disease, they spread the disease.

     

    You are ignorant of how the immune system works. You do not even seem to be aware that people have immune systems. You are under the impression that the human body is completely dependent on something concocted by a pharmaceutical company, that must be injected directly into the blood, to prevent disease.

     

    I have more than enough knowledge about how vaccines work. The more valuable knowledge is the knowledge of how they DON'T WORK.
    21 Jul 2014, 09:03 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    "The vaccine works mostly only in theory and very poorly in real life."

     

    Vaccines have been used to great effect for more than 100 years. Its not theory but demonstrated fact.

     

    "The theory that if you can trick your body to create some antigens, then you will be immune to a disease only works part of the time."

     

    You claim to know how vaccines work and yet you made the above statement which is quite absurd.

     

    "You do not even seem to be aware that people have immune systems."

     

    Vaccines only work for people who have normally functioning immune systems, so again you make an absurdly false statement.

     

    "This artificial process is likely to even compromise the immune system. It certainly does not strengthen it."

     

    Well, since vaccines produce the same reaction in the immune system as an infection that is fought off before symptoms appear, its not artificial at all.
    21 Jul 2014, 11:45 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
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    Author’s reply » "... since vaccines produce the same reaction in the immune system as an infection that is fought off before symptoms appear, its not artificial at all."

     

    By definition it is artificial, and the same immune response does not occur: Vaccines use weakened or killed pathogens. The real immune system encounters real diseases through the innate and then the adaptive immune systems. The real immune system confers real immunity. The "immunity" the vaccines confer is temporary or non-exisent as with your P-vaccine. Vaccine immunity requires constant "boosters" because the immunity wears off.

     

    "..vaccines produce the same reaction in the immune system... " is seen to be not true in the real world and just a theory only when you see vaccinated populations contracting the same disease the vaccines was supposed to prevent.
    22 Jul 2014, 12:15 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    Since actually contracting Pertussis doesn't confer permanent immunity either, your claims that the vaccines don't work because they don't either is false.

     

    The immune systems response is always triggered by the presence of certain antigens. This response occurs whether or not the antigens are presented on hostile organisms, in isolation or even on transplanted tissue.

     

    Vaccines work by presenting the immune systems with the antigens of the organism that causes a disease. They are superior to actually getting infected with the disease because the patient doesn't need to suffer the disease and its risks.

     

    Your claims that immunized individuals were getting sick and thus the immunization didn't work are not supported by the actual data of where infection happened. The whooping cough outbreaks in fact occurred where there were areas of higher opt outs. No one who was immunized was shown to have been infected AND the statistics of who got sick showed that the population wasn't fully immunized.
    22 Jul 2014, 07:30 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
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    Author’s reply » California Pertussis statistics cited (but not quoted) by Pendragon

     

    “No one who was immunized was shown to have been infected AND the statistics of who got sick showed that the population wasn't fully immunized...”--
    NOT, NOT, NOT

     

    Very clever, to use semantics to try to defend this vaccines failure by the unreasonable excuse, “the population wasn't fully immunized”. Oh, it only works if you can get 100% compliance??

     

    Immunized kids DID get Whooping cough as shown by the source you cited:

     

    Among 3,311 (80%) of pediatric cases with vaccination history information, 9% had never received any doses of pertussis-containing vaccine.”
    http://bit.ly/1nzowEA

     

    What that means, is that 91% of the 80% with vaccination history HAD BEEN vaccinated with pertussis-containing vaccine. They WERE vaccinated and got whooping cough anyway. Why did they get whooping cough? Because the vaccine is worthless.

     

    The CA Dept of Health admits this:
    One reason for the increase is the use of acellular pertussis vaccines, which cause fewer reactions than the whole-cell vaccines that preceded them, but do not protect as long. “DO NOT PROTECT AS LONG.” In other works it lasts for a few months then wears off.

     

    So what do they want you to do to keep children from getting Whooping cough? They do not ask too much:

     

    #All pregnant women should be vaccinated with Tdap in the third trimester of each pregnancy;

     

    & In addition, infants should be vaccinated as soon as possible, at 6 weeks;

     

    & More vaccinations for child at 2, 4, and 6 months, at 15 through 18 months, and at 4 through 6 years.

     

    & Required: persons who will be around newborns also be vaccinated – vaccinate everyone in house;

     

    & Tdap is routinely recommended as a single dose for those 11 through 18 years of age with preferred administration at 11 through 12 years of age.

     

    These CDC recommendation result in child getting at least 7 Dtap vaccines by age 18. That's really wonderful. About 7 or 8 of these shots by age 18, and they don't work , but look what is in the vaccines:

     

    What is in a Dtap vaccine:
    DTaP (Daptacel): aluminum phosphate, formaldehyde,

     

    DTaP (Infanrix): formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, polysorbate 80, Fenton medium (containing bovine extract), etc.

     

    DTaP-IPV (Kinrix): formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, Vero (monkey kidney) cells, calf serum--
    Did you see that: MONKEY KIDNEY CELLS. -No thank you.

     

    Aluminum is a brain-killer. All of these adjvants and contaminants are harmful and should be avoided like plague, especially Monkey Kidney Cells!!

     

    Above data from:
    Vaccine Excipient & Media Summary
    Excipients Included in U.S. Vaccines, by Vaccine
    25 Jul 2014, 12:37 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    So again you selectively quote your own sources.

     

    http://bit.ly/1nzowEA

     

    You quickly quote your source to point out that "Among 3,311 (80%) of pediatric cases with vaccination history information, 9% had never received any doses of pertussis-containing vaccine." But again, you ignore two things, the first is that it takes more than one application of vaccine to provide full immunity. Yes, 9% of those who got whooping cough had no vaccination history, but despite your claims that doesn't mean 81% had up to date immunizations. And given that the peak age of infection was 15 its likely that they didn't.

     

    And yes, they changed the vaccine in order to produce fewer negative reactions to the vaccine which has had the effect of making it less effective in protecting against infection. That doesn't mean it is worthless. That just means there is less room of divergence from the immunization schedule.

     

    And yes John, if the community has more individuals who are immunized against a disease, that means that each individual, whether immunized or not, is at greater risk of getting the disease. This is because there is a greater potential to be exposed to the disease and the amount of exposure is larger.

     

    "That's really wonderful. About 7 or 8 of these shots by age 18, and they don't work "

     

    But they do work, and it isn't too smart to make it easier for your kids to get a disease that can be LETHAL. And your paranoia about trace amounts of things is again showing.
    25 Jul 2014, 08:04 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
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    Author’s reply » CONCERN rather than DENIAL about toxic "trace" amounts of toxic metals is more than warranted. The increasing incidence rates for Alzheimer's disease and Autism are becoming epidemic levels. It is an outrageous and dishonest response to say, "We are just diagnosing these diseases better now." That is BS. Don't go there.

     

    These diseases are not just genetic. They are triggered and augmented buy toxic metals like aluminum and mercury in Thimerasol, and maybe " bovine extract", "MONKEY KIDNEY CELLS," and chicken DNA.

     

    Deaths from Alzheimer's increased 68% from 2000 to 2010

     

    Autism rates soar, now affects 1 in 68 children

     

    http://usat.ly/1phnnRZ

     

    Non-compliance with the pertussis vaccine schedule does not result in deaths as it virtually offers no protection to begin with.
    25 Jul 2014, 07:27 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
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    Ah, as I suspected. I will explain it to you once John, neither vaccines nor anything in vaccines causes Autism. The doctors who published the single study that claimed this to be true have disavowed the work or lost their licenses due to fraud. Multiple studies have been done, all show NO LINK WHAT SO EVER between vaccines and autism.

     

    And your claims about Alzheimer's are even kookier.
    25 Jul 2014, 08:27 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
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    Author’s reply » Courts disagree with you. Courts are ruling that MMR vaccines caused autism and have awarded damages
    http://cbsn.ws/1phH8ca

     

    --this is just one and there are others.

     

    It may be true that tobacco science studies funded by organizations in back pocket of big pharma and also receiving funding by NIH, may not be able to find a link, but their intent is to NOT find a link. Go ahead and buy into it, but you have no explanation for the direct relationship between the expansion of the CDC Childrens Vaccine Schedule and the expansion of the Autism rates to epidemic levels.

     

    There was no fraud in the Wakefield findings. An investigative reporter who works for the medical industry tried to do a hatchet job on his findings and got the journal to "retract" Wakefields report, but could not disprove it. A 300 billion global industry can hire the best hatchet man to try to destroy a negative study. Of course they cannot let it stand. But it still does stand.

     

    The best that those of your perspective can do is offer the lame excuse that in the last few years, the medical profession is getting better at diagnosing autism. What a lie. That does not even come close to rating "plausible deniability."

     

    You can tell when someone runs out of bullets (really, you had nothing there) when all they have left is to resort to ridicule and use words like "kook."
    25 Jul 2014, 11:47 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/1k0iqh2

     

    Try reading the actual case. The vaccine didn't cause autism, but rather she already had a pre-existing condition that was exacerbated by getting 6 different vaccine shots on the same day.

     

    So please, show me a study that shows a link between autism and vaccines. A rigorous scientific one that hasn't had its data manipulated by fraud. And sorry John, but kook is an accurate description of anyone who makes claims when all of the science refutes your claims.
    26 Jul 2014, 12:54 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
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    Author’s reply » Wait a minute Pendragon.
    So you suggesting that getting 6 shots on the same day IS NOT SAFE? If vaccines are completely safe, then you are contradicting yourself here. The doctor who administered the vaccines thought they were safe; the vaccine industry says they are safe. Are you saying doctors don't know what they are doing and giving 6 shots is not safe? Sounds like you are. Congratulations on your turnaround....

     

    ...As a computer programmer, you stumble a lot when it comes to logic.

     

    You accuse me: "So again you selectively quote your own sources."

     

    Let me remind you, that was YOUR source. That was from the link YOU provided above. I was just telling you what your source ACTUALLY said: Once again you missed it or ignored it- FROM YOUR SOURCE:

     

    "Among 3,311 (80%) of pediatric cases with vaccination history information, 9% had never received any doses of pertussis-containing vaccine.”
    http://bit.ly/1nzowEA

     

    AND AS I COMMENTED:
    "What that means, is that 91% of the 80% with vaccination history HAD BEEN vaccinated with pertussis-containing vaccine."
    ... your source, 91% had been vaccinated. according to CA Dept of Health statistics.
    You like statistics, right?

     

    Your statement that, "Multiple studies have been done, all show NO LINK WHAT SO EVER between vaccines and autism," - is a GROSS DISTORTION.

     

    You are only talking about studies conducted by the research organizations of the corporate STAKEHOLDERS in the NATIONAL VACCINE PROGRAM (not I did not make this up-it is documented above). Every NGO, state and local government, and state university is a STAKEHOLDER in the NATIONAL VACCINATION PROGRAM. For that matter YOU are a pawn in the same program. They are funded by the NIH and by corporate funds. What do you think they are going to find?

     

    You could even have a 50% autism rate (though it was recently 1 in 1000) and they would still conduct studies that "find" no link. You could have a child drop dead 5 minutes after a MMR vaccine, and they would "find" no link or cause.

     

    "...kook is an accurate description of anyone who makes claims when all of the science refutes your claims."

     

    Sorry, but this isn't "science" They can put some numbers on paper that reinforces a lie, but the real question is "who is it that is putting the numbers on the paper -who are they doing it for??" and where did they get the money to do it?
    26 Jul 2014, 07:53 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
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    So what you mean John is that nope, you don't have a study that supports your claims about vaccines and autism.

     

    As for your claim about whooping cough, you need to look at the ages when people get vaccinated and when people got whooping cough.

     

    But then nothing will convince you because any evidence you don't like you just dismiss as part of the conspiracy.
    26 Jul 2014, 09:07 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
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    Author’s reply » So six vaccines in the same day aren't safe and doctors don't always know what they are doing. I thought so too.

     

    And vaccinated children still get Whooping cough. How many Pertussis vaccinations does a child have to get by age 6?

     

    They already call for 6 Pertussis vaccinations by age five or six, (and one before they are born) and they still get Whooping cough. HOW MANY DOES IT TAKE before they realize it does not prevent it.

     

    Sorry, I didn't want to have my last response turn into a book, but there are studies but I am not going to research them at this time. Later.

     

    There is one experiment that is undeniable and for which there are results that cannot be denied. It is an experiment where the entire population is treated like lab rats and are forced to participate in the experiment. In this experiment there are diseases that were just being noticed for the first time in the early 1900's (Alzheimers) and were low incidence, and Autism, which was only established as a separate syndrome in the 1960's and was of such low incidence there were not even statistics for it.

     

    Now they are epidemic. People like Pendragon won't acknowledge the exponential increase in these syndromes and the direct relationship with the increase in vaccinations. A chart is worth 10,000 words here:
    http://bit.ly/1rItX7r

     

    AUTISM HAS INCREASED FROM 1 IN 5000 IN 1975 TO 1 IN 68 NOW.

     

    ALZHEIMERS IS NOW THE THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN THE US BEHIND HEART DISEASE and CANCER.
    http://bit.ly/1rItUZf

     

    Pendragon thinks that because the pharmaceutic industry does not conduct studies that confirms a link between Vaccines and Autism, that a link does not exist.

     

    I SAY THE RESULTS ARE ALREADY IN. THE AUTISM STATISTICS ARE THE PROOF. 36 vaccines by age 18. Six in one day sometimes. Do we have to wait for some "OFFICIAL" study that will never happen before it dawns on people? Does the autism have to go to 50% first?

     

    Yes, an experiment and study has already been conducted, and the lab rats are the US citizens and the results are obvious to anyone paying attention. Unfortunately, most do not pay attention until someone in their immediate family is stricken down.
    http://bit.ly/1rItUZf
    26 Jul 2014, 10:37 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
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    1) Yes, getting multiple vaccines at a time will cause a reaction. Most often it is a mild fever. See, John, since a vaccine is MEANT to stimulate the immune system, when it does that isn't a failure but a feature. In the case of a child with a rare condition, the NORMAL response caused a problem. It didn't cause autism, but because of her rare existing condition it did cause a reaction the under the law was a compensated event.

     

    2)One dose of the vaccine for Whooping cough does not produce perfect immunity. Nor does getting whooping cough. People with imperfect immunity to it can still get whooping cough. The more one is exposed to the disease the more likely it is one will get the disease, whether you have had vaccine or the disease. Even a single dose, while it might not provide perfect immunity, reduces the chance of getting the disease and if one does get the disease it reduces the severity of the infection.

     

    3)It is unknown what has caused the supposed rise in autism rates, it hasn't even been conclusively shown that the rise isn't due to better detection. What has been shown to NOT be the cause is vaccines. Numerous studies have been done proving their is no link. And John admits he has no evidence to show a link.
    http://bit.ly/1l4DzC0

     

    4)Alzheimer's also has no link to vaccines. No one actually claims such a link which is why John didn't even link some dubious source making that claim. The rise in cases John claims is also due to an aging population (lots more old people) and to better detection of the disease.

     

    http://bit.ly/1l4DzC1
    27 Jul 2014, 06:40 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    This is better then an Ali / Frazier match.. Pull up a chair folks and learn. I am !!
    26 Jul 2014, 09:14 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    "This is better then an Ali / Frazier match."

     

    For that to be true IT, JW would have to have some knowledge of the scientific method and not a near religious belief that big pharma is working with the government to control us all.
    27 Jul 2014, 06:41 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    PEND

     

    I think JW has an understanding of what he believes is going on. Although one might not want to believe it , one must consider it.

     

    Personally I still don't think Oswald was the only one involved with Kennedy's death. So I have always questioned what the govt wants us to believe.

     

    It is plausible , one might not want to believe it, but it could be true. imo
    27 Jul 2014, 10:23 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    IT,

     

    "I think JW has an understanding of what he believes is going on. Although one might not want to believe it , one must consider it."

     

    The problem isn't his understanding of what he believes in, but rather the relationship between what he believes in and reality. And I don't need to consider it, because what he believes has been refuted many times and he refuses to offer any real proof.

     

    "Personally I still don't think Oswald was the only one involved with Kennedy's death. So I have always questioned what the govt wants us to believe."

     

    Again, its all about proof. And especially with the Zapruder film, the evidence backs up the governments version of what happened. No real evidence exists for a second shooter or that contradicts the governments account in any material sense.

     

    http://bit.ly/1o5TQqk

     

    "It is plausible , one might not want to believe it, but it could be true."

     

    But JW position isn't plausible. It has been explored even so and no evidence supports it, nor does biology work the way it would need to for his position to be plausible.
    28 Jul 2014, 08:37 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    PEND

     

    "Again, its all about proof. And especially with the Zapruder film, the evidence backs up the governments version of what happened "

     

    Sorry, you lost me on that comment. If you think that film actually backs up one shooter I can't even think to discuss it. Seeing Kennedys head blown off from the back, yet the shot supposedly came from behind, is mind boggling .

     

    You really think one guy can get off that many shots accurately in 6 seconds ?? OK >>>
    28 Jul 2014, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    John,

     

    So now you are a ballistics expert?

     

    LOL. There were only 2 shots, its not hard to do them in 6-10 seconds. And they all came from the direction of the book repository.
    28 Jul 2014, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    PEND

     

    Uh... How about 3 shots??
    28 Jul 2014, 05:08 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    My poor wording, two intervals between shots in 6-10 seconds is not that hard.
    28 Jul 2014, 06:11 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    Well this conversation belongs in the conspiracy chapter anyway..
    28 Jul 2014, 10:30 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Do I dismiss evidence I don't like and just label it conspiracy?

     

    The evidence I see points to powerful corporate and government interests in collusion with each other. The objective is control, power and money flowing to those at the top --collusion, control and corruption. It is not "conspiracy" per se; it is widespread and pervasive control.
    I don't dismiss evidence. I dismiss BS.
    Control:
    How else do you explain parents taking their children like sheep to a stranger in a white smock to have a three-part $400 vaccine given to them just because one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies - Merk did some disease mongering, lobbying and advertising and bought some politicians who told the parents they need to get Merk's Gardasil or they can't go to the university?

     

    They line up to get the newest vaccination ordained by the pharma giants just because they are told they have to. When did people stop thinking for themselves?
    27 Jul 2014, 12:44 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    "How else do you explain parents taking their children like sheep to a stranger in a white smock to have a three-part $400 vaccine given to them just because one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies - Merk did some disease mongering, lobbying and advertising and bought some politicians who told the parents they need to get Merk's Gardasil or they can't go to the university?"

     

    Yeah, such silly parents not wanting their children to risk getting a very dangerous cancer when a simple vaccination can mostly prevent that.
    27 Jul 2014, 06:43 AM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    PEND

     

    I must add that I saw plenty of my friends come back from Vietnam a different person. I can't seem to wrap my head around the fact that it is just them not being able to handle it.

     

    Something else is going on !
    27 Jul 2014, 10:26 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    IT,

     

    Its a simple fact that traumatic events change people. And combat is a series of traumatic events. Your ability to understand why they changed isn't evidence that something else must have happened.
    28 Jul 2014, 08:39 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Pendragon
    Nice regurgitation of Merk, "One Less" advertising campaign.

     

    You would like to cast yourself as holding to the"scientific" high ground and would like to be able to say that vaccine's effectiveness are proven by scientific studies.

     

    Conversly, you would like to label me as conspiratorial and my views are a "religious" paranoia.

     

    Too bad that the closest you can come to that is that the vaccine manufacturers say or claim that the vaccines are safe and effective. The only thing we have to go on is THEIR WORD, and their word is not worth much and never was:
    http://bit.ly/1lK9BU0
    [odd how the MSM won't report this]

     

    You may believe in these vaccines if you wish, if you believe Merk and the FDA, but you have no absolute proof that they are safe and effective. You only have the word of Merk. For all you know it may not work and you are just getting some unwanted monkey virus.

     

    You won't find out until thousands have died like the VIOXX scandal and recall and was " responsible for at least 55,000 American deaths during the five years it had been on the market."
    Read more: http://bit.ly/1lK9BU3
    In fact my dad died from a heart attack and was prescribed VIOXX.

     

    It is those like you, Pendragon who have the religious belief in vaccines; most of what you say could be classified as articles of faith in the vaccine system, as a religious system.

     

    I am an atheist to the vaccine system. That does not define me or put me into a "religious" box. To you, by definition, any vaccine developed by a pharmaceutical company become a sanctified element that must be administered by the priest (doctor). --Always ask your doctor if "xxxxxx" is right for you.

     

    Anyone who does not buy into his religion is labeled an infidel

     

    This religion that you buy into, does not allow for dissent or criticism against its dogma.

     

    The NATIONAL VACCINE PROGRAM, does not allow for consumer dissent; It is always implied by the vaccine system after a new vaccine is developed, that:

     

    "We (Merk) have tested Gardasil and found it to be safe"

     

    If you have doubts about this then you have to finance a multi-million dollar study to prove that it is not safe. Hire a research facility, researchers, scientists, get people to participate, and publish results and then try to convince the FDA to consider your findings. If you cannot do this then you cannot disagree with the manufacturer's claims about Gardasil." As one can see, you would have to be the Koch Brothers to do this.

     

    ...Or 50,000 people have to die first before the FDA finally notices.

     

    If people die after getting the vaccine, that is inadmissible because the person in Merk's (Pendragon's) view died from other causes. In any case you can't sue us (Merk) because we are protected by Fed law that favors us and portents us from liability when people who take out vaccines get sick or die.

     

    The whole system is completely stacked against the citizen (Lab rat). However you can just say "NO" and opt out. Don't expect them to tell you the truth though.
    27 Jul 2014, 02:46 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    1) The only evidence you have to base your claims on about this conspiracy is evidence that shows the system actually works. Yes, testing can be faked by the unscrupulous and the sample size in testing is too small to catch very rare events. That is why there is monitoring and reporting of adverse events after drugs and vaccines have been approved.

     

    2) I don't have a belief in the efficacy of vaccines that flies in the face of the actual evidence. And if vaccines are SO ineffective, how do you explain that smallpox is extinct and that polio is now limited to a few places in the third world?

     

    3)John, you very well know that proximity in time is not proof of causation.
    28 Jul 2014, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » "proximity in time is not proof of causation."

     

    If a healthy child receives a particular vaccine, and then in a relatively short time frame, has an adverse reaction, then there WOULD be reason to suspect the vaccine. If you ate at an unfamiliar Mexican restaurant, and then got sick right after, you would associate the two, right?

     

    The statement, "proximity in time is not proof of causation." is a a component of the "rhetoric of denial." It is essential that the industry has a protocol for denying adverse reaction, that they may maintain "plausible deniability."

     

    Another one is statistics. On a given day "x" number of people will experience "x" physical condition or reaction. E.g., on a given day in a population of 100 million people, "x" number of women will have miscarriages. Sally Jones had "XYZ" vaccine and then had a miscarriage. "X" number of women would have had a miscarriage, therefore Sally Jones is simply one of those statistics.

     

    Use the statistic to rationalize that the vaccine recipient was one of those statistics.
    28 Jul 2014, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    JW,

     

    "The statement, "proximity in time is not proof of causation." is a a component of the "rhetoric of denial." "

     

    No, its a statement of simple fact. For instance, people wake up every morning. A certain number of car accidents happen during the AM drive to work time. You can't reasonably claim that people getting up in the morning is a cause of those accidents.

     

    And that is exactly what you are doing with some of your claims about vaccines.

     

    As for your Sally Jones example, you have shown nothing. You show no linkage other than time between the two events. Its not a denial, because you have shown nothing to be denied.
    28 Jul 2014, 09:59 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » My illustration really does not require any further explanation or justification. This type of example is alluded to in "REPORT TO THE PRESIDENT ON U.S. PREPARATIONS FOR 2009-H1N1 INFLUENZA, published in August of 2009 by the Office of the President."
    ...under how to deal with "Adverse Events"

     

    "It is certain that, by chance, some adverse events will occur following vaccination (e.g., on any given day, some elderly individuals will die and pregnant women will miscarry). It is important that CDC has well-developed materials completed in advance to set such events in context. . . "

     

    "Context" means how to deflect all blame and culpability from the CDC and the vaccine manufacturer. They use the statistical excuse to issue "blanket denial."

     

    THEY PLANNED IN ADVANCE HOW THEY WOULD EXPLAIN "IT"- ADVERSE EVENTS - AWAY.

     

    They EXPECTED people to have adverse reactions and possible die (after 2009 Swine flu vaccination), and discussed how they would deflect blame(rhetoric of denial) and assume no culpability.

     

    Yes, even if someone drops dead in the doctor's office five minutes after the vaccine, they will say essentially what you just said above in your comment.

     

    Your "getting up in the morning" example is pathetically lame. Why am I not surprised?
    28 Jul 2014, 11:55 AM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Shown nothing to be denied??

     

    I would say "miscarriage, seizures, death, or Guillain-Barre Syndrome is something they would want to deny.
    28 Jul 2014, 12:34 PM Reply Like
  • PendragonY
    , contributor
    Comments (7168) | Send Message
     
    JW,

     

    Can you read?

     

    "It is certain that, by chance, some adverse events will occur following vaccination (e.g., on any given day, some elderly individuals will die and pregnant women will miscarry). It is important that CDC has well-developed materials completed in advance to set such events in context. . . "

     

    Do you not understand that BY CHANCE and NOT because of the vaccination people will suffer adverse events? So, yes, they planned that bad things will happen to the folks who got the vaccine, not because of the vaccine, but because BAD THINGS HAPPEN.

     

    "Your "getting up in the morning" example is pathetically lame."

     

    Its exactly as lame as any of the examples you claim prove that vaccines are bad.

     

    And I notice you still haven't made any comments about smallpox, polio and other diseases that were once common but are now rare because of vaccines!
    28 Jul 2014, 02:36 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » I will spoon feed it to you since you seen to be totally ignorant. In 1976 ( the swine flu fiasco) the Federal Government declared a Swine Flu epidemic because one soldier on a military base contracted it and died. A national vaccine campaign was hastily launched with the objective to vaccinate every person in the US against the Swine flu.

     

    The epidemic never materialized and only the one person died from the swine flu. However the vaccinations were cancelled after cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome were reported. In the aftermath, 500 cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome were believed to be caused by the vaccine. Also at least 30 deaths resulted from the vaccine.

     

    One person died from Swine Flu; 30 or more died from the vaccines.

     

    Lawsuits asking damages of $3,417,000,000 were filed against the US government.

     

    This is exactly the context of the 2009 Report to the President on the Preparation, etc.

     

    In 2009 because WHO declared the swine flu to be a Phase 6 level pandemic and there was a hysterical campaign, just like 1976 for everyone to be vaccinated. It was exactly in the context of 1976 with the GBS, deaths, and the lawsuits, that the Presidents advisers presented this report.

     

    Because the 2009 report is available to the public it is not going to come out and say that "the Swine flu vaccine will cause adverse reactions, miscarriages and death." No, of course not. But it is clear what they mean. The GBS cases and deaths WERE NOT CHANCE. THEY PAID DAMAGES after 1976. The GBS cases and deaths are likely understated.

     

    This is an example of the propaganda machine anticipating the contingencies and planning its course of action.

     

    Just like, do you really think Obama held a meeting with IRS Agents and instructed them to target Tea Party groups and passed out a how-to memo. That's how ridiculous your dismissal of this 2009 document is. They use subtlety and suggestion.

     

    The damages in 1976 WERE NOT CHANCE. The same for 2009. Yes-I can read.
    28 Jul 2014, 04:52 PM Reply Like
  • John Wilson
    , contributor
    Comments (1577) | Send Message
     
    Author’s reply » Revolting door: CDC to Merk

     

    Julie Gerberding, MD, MPH,

     

    From CDC director of vaccines, 2002 - 2009
    (promoted and awarded for her services to,...

     

    President of Merck Vaccines. "She is responsible for Merck’s current portfolio of vaccines..."
    http://bit.ly/X1tctl
    Her contacts and influence within the CDC will remain as she expands Merck's portfolio of vaccines, and "accelerating efforts to broaden access to Merck’s vaccines around the world" ["pushing"].

     

    Excellent example of the collusion between government and the pharmaceutical industry I was talking about above. You can be sure she will be making more at Merck than she was at CDC. I'm sure Merck sees this as an investment in a government asset with valuable connections and influence.
    27 Jul 2014, 11:37 PM Reply Like
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