This just in. Precious metals (GLD +2.2%), (SLV +2.6%) are sharply higher on the session after a...


This just in. Precious metals (GLD +2.2%), (SLV +2.6%) are sharply higher on the session after a panicky Sunday evening plunge brought both to multi-year lows. Other than dollar weakness (UUP -0.5%) across the board, there's no news in particular - perhaps some satiated bears decided to cover and a trend took hold.

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Comments (39)
  • Chris DeMuth Jr.
    , contributor
    Comments (11478) | Send Message
     
    Helpful for DUST and ZSL shorts; http://bit.ly/16CLWlk still one of the better silver physical investments relative to spot
    20 May 2013, 12:45 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (15184) | Send Message
     
    Do people really think gold is heading below 1k ? Geez..
    20 May 2013, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • Ben Bernankes friend
    , contributor
    Comments (475) | Send Message
     
    Did people really think gold was going to 2k?
    21 May 2013, 06:26 AM Reply Like
  • Yorick
    , contributor
    Comments (793) | Send Message
     
    Or maybe because like everything else in the "investment" world today, someone stepped in to ensure that a plunge didn't occur. So much for real price discovery.
    20 May 2013, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (15184) | Send Message
     
    Nope, Soros and a bunch of biggies just robbed the vaults at these prices that's all !

     

    Like I have stated many times physical buyers could care less about the daily noise. PATIENCE is all that is needed. In the end the truth of pricing always comes out. Might take years but I have time.
    20 May 2013, 12:53 PM Reply Like
  • Osled
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    Amen, Brother!
    20 May 2013, 03:30 PM Reply Like
  • Agbug
    , contributor
    Comments (1310) | Send Message
     
    A trend took hold? Yup, that must be it, silver swings 15% in less than 24 hours and that's just a trend taking hold? Nothing to see here folks, just normal markets at work. "that's our story and we're sticking to it".
    20 May 2013, 12:59 PM Reply Like
  • thatsforschur
    , contributor
    Comments (113) | Send Message
     
    Pretty close to a bottom for silver and gold. I'm long in both (miners) and going to be patient until the inevitable sharp reverse occurs. So much demand for the physical stuff it just has to filter down and with disproportional results for (the right) miners.
    20 May 2013, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • Osled
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    You would think so. I mean, if something is in short supply or even no supply, it's only logical that the suppliers of that something, whatever it may be, would do well. The big picture always takes a little longer to play out, but it always does, nonetheless.
    20 May 2013, 04:30 PM Reply Like
  • Whitehawk
    , contributor
    Comments (3121) | Send Message
     
    Still sticking to my technical calls...$1200 and $18-19. Yes, volatile session, great crash bang boom action.
    20 May 2013, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (15184) | Send Message
     
    @WHITE

     

    I am not a tech person so it will be interesting to see how close you are..

     

    Way too old to learn that stuff. I live and invest by a different set of rules !
    20 May 2013, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • WheelsComingOff
    , contributor
    Comments (764) | Send Message
     
    I agree Whitehawk, but after today's action, I'm getting warier...Made a killing on the big drop, and then more on the last little drop, but today's price action is making me rethink things...Maybe a retest of the 1525 (gold) and 26 (silver) levels before heading back down?
    20 May 2013, 03:49 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (15184) | Send Message
     
    @WHEELS

     

    NOOOOO, a bear turning bullish??? Say it ain't so. Didn't take much did it ??
    20 May 2013, 06:21 PM Reply Like
  • winningtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (2459) | Send Message
     
    The crash on Sunday night was caused by a large trade during illiquid market hours, traded by a high speed trader (most likely the FED or one of their cronies),
    20 May 2013, 01:29 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (15184) | Send Message
     
    Aren't they always done in the off hours? Don't investors notice this and then question it.?

     

    Thinking outside the box helps understand what is really going on .
    20 May 2013, 01:35 PM Reply Like
  • Jason Burack
    , contributor
    Comments (2155) | Send Message
     
    There are very few primary silver miners who can make a profit producing silver at these prices. A lot of supply about to come offline FAST!
    20 May 2013, 01:38 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (15184) | Send Message
     
    Silver premiums to start jumping up soon I would guess as well.
    20 May 2013, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • kvatchik
    , contributor
    Comments (499) | Send Message
     
    I'm actually adding to SLV calls today, bottom fishing.
    20 May 2013, 04:13 PM Reply Like
  • Jason Burack
    , contributor
    Comments (2155) | Send Message
     
    It's not sustainable indefinitely for primary silver miners to continue producing silver at a loss. Something has to give.
    20 May 2013, 02:23 PM Reply Like
  • Jhalgren
    , contributor
    Comments (287) | Send Message
     
    As a journalistic advocate, it seems Mohamed El-Erian, ceo, Pimco, may have convinced gold sellers of their folly. He wrote of it in a recent column at http://www.ft.com. In the article, he describes how "markets have outpaced fundamentals on the expectation that western central banks, together with a more functional political system, will deliver higher growth. If this fails to materialize, investors will worry about a lot more than the intrinsic value of gold." Meanwhile, he says, gold valuation has become separated from its intrinsic attributes; "thus rendering it vulnerable to any change in conventional wisdom"--otherwise described by him as "a stable disequilibrium" economy. He's right on! And also believes people are in a state of illusion regarding our economy too. So gold is still king in my mind--I'm holding.
    20 May 2013, 02:44 PM Reply Like
  • jbassbia
    , contributor
    Comments (394) | Send Message
     
    Look to juniors with low costs and expanding production - like B2Gold (BTO) - articel at http://bit.ly/MWC1hH
    20 May 2013, 02:44 PM Reply Like
  • russellb73
    , contributor
    Comments (394) | Send Message
     
    I like junior minors but like the etf to avoid individual company risk....GDXJ pays a nice dividend too!
    21 May 2013, 06:53 AM Reply Like
  • HAPPIESTHIHOSILVER
    , contributor
    Comments (281) | Send Message
     
    omg , this is what happened or so it was related. someone in the yen trade was forced to dump position. was also long silver and put in a large sell at the market order which in effect wiped out most all stops that were in place. a brokerage firm has risk assessment people watching the markets when they are open. anyone with a silver account, if not well capitalized as i stay, would have been contacted for funds 0N A SUNDAY NIGHT. the only option theywould have would be to do an echeck, and that may not have been acceptable with the broker. so essentially it was done right after the open on a sunday nite when funds could not be transferred. i think it is ludacris to place a stop in silver.i am always margined with initial margin plus a minimum of enough to cover a 10.00 movement against me. it is the only way to survive. i tweeted that a $4 range day would not surprise me, well we got 3, thus far. also that it wouldnt surprise me to see silver close higher today. the next few days will confirm if a bottom is in. if so, a rebound to the high 20s is likely in store. it will be interesting late tonite/early a.m. to see what open interest movement did on todays action.
    20 May 2013, 03:29 PM Reply Like
  • jialog2
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    Manipulation, that is the name of the game. First they created all kinds of fake reccomendations, shorted their positions, and now, buy until the market levels again to true value. They win both ways, and if you panicked, you lose.
    20 May 2013, 03:30 PM Reply Like
  • fafatooey
    , contributor
    Comments (435) | Send Message
     
    Wow. That gave me whiplash.
    20 May 2013, 04:54 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (15184) | Send Message
     
    You think that gave you whiplash. Wait until they say no mas to QE'S !!!

     

    Look out below for the markets !!
    20 May 2013, 08:02 PM Reply Like
  • boldaq
    , contributor
    Comments (97) | Send Message
     
    According to 'Commodities' on the kitco website, silver is under a lot of selling pressure and looks set to enter the $15-$20 trading range.
    20 May 2013, 08:55 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (15184) | Send Message
     
    Oh please knock it down to $15 bucks again..

     

    (on my way to rent an 18 wheeler)

     

    You want to see buying pressure. Let it fall to $15 bucks!!
    20 May 2013, 09:17 PM Reply Like
  • convoluted
    , contributor
    Comments (2489) | Send Message
     
    Booked DUST profits. But reloaded at end of day. However, also added some NUGT short puts. Just couldn't decide between the fat little bears and the gloomy looking bulls. But, already made a bundle by shorting the golden calf.
    So, there are times when you bet on both the Bay and the Bobtail nag.
    20 May 2013, 10:06 PM Reply Like
  • User 9575331
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    All of a sudden, gold has NO value. Nothwithstanding 6000 years of historical fact, limited supplies, geopolitical factors, and the history of its liquidity and intrinsic value, we are led to believe that it was a bubble and that it has burst. Buffet may not like gold, but his philosophy of buying in times of panic and selling through euphoria should put a floor under the precious metals markets.
    20 May 2013, 11:01 PM Reply Like
  • Skeptical Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (846) | Send Message
     
    Woke up this morning and saw the metals down, but a lot less than earlier in Asian trade. Before the US market opened, the metals prices were even higher and the ETFs were higher than the futures. Taking these as signs of a turn, I added to my existing GG position at the open, near the low of the day. Then I tried to buy some BVN, but my limit orders kept getting outrun, so I closed my computer and went to my gym room. When I got back, the metal stocks were already up a few percent, so I gave up for the day. One can always hope that volatility will provide more opportunities to add to existing metal mining positions at good prices. I don't see any reason to sell under the ongoing conditions of fiat money debasement. Eventually fundamentals always prevail, and fiat currencies will go the way of all paper, but gold will never change.
    20 May 2013, 11:43 PM Reply Like
  • Ivan the Fool
    , contributor
    Comments (96) | Send Message
     
    What if gold really only has the value of its utility and all the cultural stuff can be manipulated? What if billions of people could be lured into buying and buying more as prices fall only for it to fall to what are now unthinkable levels and then stay there a while? And this printing thing.... If all currencies maintain a relative value and are printed at the same rate, then the difference in the purchasing power of the currencies expands exponentially. It's an interesting point of view and I'm not sure if I believe it, but it's plausible. It would partially explain why QE has chugged along and yet the dollar is gaining in value. We are not a closed system, so our inflation is relative to the inflation of other currencies.We may not feel the changing value of the dollar at home yet, but on the international level, the dollar is surely gobbling up property and expanding infrastructure - preparing for a future surge.

     

    Consider the difference in what can be purchased with Trillions of U.S. dollars vs. Trillions of any other currency. Other nations are beginning to avoid doing business with us and I suspect tensions will increase dramatically - escalating perhaps faster than people now are inclined to believe - or maybe it's all a conspiracy...

     

    I think Japan caught on to the act and that's why they printed in mass - to have as much relative purchasing power. The game may be to expand the dollar and spend on infrastructure while others buy shiny gold. We can always use our military to get the gold back if we really want it - or by unfair trade. Those of us who amass PM (like me) could get stuck with it for a long time. Maybe I'm way off here, but this all seems too plausible. I have decided to take a cash position on all of my PM stock, but I'm going to hang on to my phyz and be patient - give it to the grand kids. I have a guess on some of the end game but I'm getting long-winded. Reply if interested.
    21 May 2013, 01:25 AM Reply Like
  • David INC.
    , contributor
    Comments (235) | Send Message
     
    I agreee with the off hours trading... a pre-set for the spike.
    21 May 2013, 01:29 AM Reply Like
  • Skeptical Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (846) | Send Message
     
    In reply to Ivan, even if all fiat currencies were printed at the correct relatively adjusted rates, there would still be inflation of all of them if the rates were higher than justified by the increases in population and productivity. Money can be printed without limit, but labor output and raw materials are ultimate limits. One can't amass labor and it is inconvenient to collect most raw materials, but gold and silver have proven to be natural stores of wealth for well known reasons. The mining companies have some possible advantages over the metals themselves as investments. They pay dividends and at times provide leverage to the bullion prices. But, perhaps most of all, the stocks of such companies do not have a history of confiscation, while holding bullion would have made you a criminal after confiscation under FDR in 1933. Enough said!
    22 May 2013, 12:30 AM Reply Like
  • Ivan the Fool
    , contributor
    Comments (96) | Send Message
     
    SKEPT... I don't believe that printing rates actually have been the same and so the rates of inflation have been different. I think this continues to be the case. Also, one of the fed guys just hinted that QE could EXPAND. How might an increase, say to $150 billion a month change investor sentiment? The markets would go nuts while cranking up the PM panic for fear of hyperinflation- resulting in a surge in prices followed by another dump. Yes, it certainly is inconvenient to store things - like oil, for example, but lots of it IS being stored - as would be desired in the event of a major conflict. Metals, rubber, plastics, and synthetics can all be stored without too much inconvenience - and... some things are worth an inconvenience. The devaluing of PM would also allow for monopolization of the mining industry for future purposes. The fact that the history of gold is well-known is WHY there is such a fervor and the confiscation thing further plays into the hysteria. It seems to me that there is much confusion between the U.S. economy and the world economy within the scope of the geopolitical maneuvering. My bottom line is that I can't get myself to believe that the exploiters of the world will pass up such a grand opportunity to use our fears against us in order to acquire vast amounts of wealth for themselves - which is the game in a nutshell. Note finally that in terms of history, going after gold to maximize wealth is hardly worth mentioning when set beside the history of using violence to maximize wealth. No disrespect intended to Mr. Skeptical. Thanks for the thoughts.
    22 May 2013, 03:33 AM Reply Like
  • kvatchik
    , contributor
    Comments (499) | Send Message
     
    Ivan, do you think, as I think that fiat is a bubble?
    22 May 2013, 04:46 AM Reply Like
  • Ivan the Fool
    , contributor
    Comments (96) | Send Message
     
    KVATCHIK... What do we know? Our annual budget is now operating at a surplus, industrial growth is slowing, manufacturers are storing product, world-wide corporate sales are declining, real employment is stagnant at best, our military is deploying equipment & personnel all over the world, terror threat is being kept palpable, China and Russia are attempting to exit the petro-dollar, Asia is gobbling up gold, congress is moving toward austerity measures while providing subsidies to Nascar and Disney at the same time that farm subsidies are being dismantled, FEMA and the Polish army are working county fairs... what does all this have to do with fiat? There are two kinds of power: the power of persuasion and the power of brute force. The value of any currency is relative to the persuasive and brutish powers of the leaders of the country in which it originates. There absolutely are fiat bubbles and when they burst it quickly becomes clear what is truly valuable in this world. We must not under-estimate the willingness of the powerful to undermine life and liberty. If you think of it as a game of Risk, we (Western powers) are positioning ourselves for world domination. I can sense them in the war room - discussing how we must protect our sovereignty - which turns into a mantra for national security. And in considering the current state of world affairs, there may be no better time for a takeover. Apparently, there was an executive order signed in late 2012 that would allow for seizure of any and all assets in the interests of national security - either for an actual war of for paying off the 20 trillion dollar debt to win the currency war. It is my belief that the Tech bubble was a precursor to the Iraq bubble - to the Housing bubble - to the Banking bubble - to the Gold bubble which is now popping - to the Equities bubble that will pop next - to the Fiat bubble - culminating in the Human Life bubble. I submit to all of you that the real question is not how to protect our individual wealth, but how to protect the weak from the tyranny of evil men. In today's climate, I fear that even communicating honestly - such as in forums like this - could be putting ourselves at risk. Am I paranoid? Maybe I am, but this stuff is really happening - just as our Constitution really has been and continues to be desecrated. Apparently, those opposed to the protections within our sacred documents think that they can avoid being tried as criminals if, by definition under the law as it has been re-written, crimes are no longer crimes. Why would you do this unless you were intending to commit the acts? Changing defintions does not, however, change the inherent wickedness of the deeds, however, as evil is still evil even when the ends seem to justify the means. We like to think that our ability to reason sets us apart from the rest of the natural world, but it is our propensity for fantasy that really sets us apart. We prefer to see things as we wish them to be rather than as they are. Bubble? How about a Fantasy Bubble? Follow that thought for a while and see where you end up. Here's a good question: If war is inevitable, should we try to profit from it? I honestly have not decided if I am willing to do it. I don't like the idea of being a war profiteer, but I am still clinging to the fantasy of retirement. Some final thoughts: What if "we" no longer refers to borders, cultures, or languages, but rather only to Haves and Have-Nots? The elite of the G20 are probably in cahoots. The rich seem more inclined to perceive other rich people as being like themselves rather than the poor citizens of their respective countries who look and sound like them. The U.S. and other military forces positioned overseas may be fighting against the miltary forces of other nations OR they might be fighting against the citizens of other nations whom are becoming more and more restless. The feds don't know for sure which way it will go because it is impossible to predict how the leaders of other nations will decide to proceed as this plays out. This is why they don't know if they will be printing more or less. They will use the strategy that best protects their interests. Now that gold seems to have forfeited it's role as a safe-haven, printing less over the long run doesn't seem to be an option. I foresee a temporary reduction later this year followed by a major increase. They will attempt to rally PM at least one more time to stretch this game out as long as possible, but whatever their decision, it will have little to do with domestic activity - it's all about geopolitics. Based on today's news, even many of the feds have no idea what's going on. Some say more. Some say less. This is probably going to be much harder to manage than anticipated and will cause some of their plans to go into effect sooner than they had hoped. Sorry about the length, but one last thought: there are very likely factions among the wealthy elite - some unwilling to avoid exploiting market conditions - while others are more concerned about the solvency of the sysytem as a whole and future profits.
    22 May 2013, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • kvatchik
    , contributor
    Comments (499) | Send Message
     
    Ivan, thanks for such an extended explanation. I disagree on several points. First of all gold is not a bubble, fiat is a bubble. Second, I can't imagine how US can profit from a war, some individuals and companies sure will profit but not the country as a whole, and I'm pretty sure geopolitics are for domestic use.
    23 May 2013, 02:29 AM Reply Like
  • Ivan the Fool
    , contributor
    Comments (96) | Send Message
     
    Kvatchik - Gold went from $1800 down to $1400 and people like Soros dumped and made billions. How is that not a bubble? Where is the bottom? Is the bubble effect over? Soros just bought phyz, so maybe it is, but I smell something sinister. War is the surest way to steal resources - by infiltrating countries with select companies that run out the back door with the goods so to speak.And during war, mining, energy, and industrials go through the roof. Consider the fact that we are now occupying Afghanistan where 90% of the world's heroin is grown. Opiate derived pain medication is a golden egg for pharmaceuticals. Then there's Iraqi oil. These are the overt examples. There are much sneakier ways to steal that I won't go into now. Do these things help our country? Maybe not, but the 50's were our Greatest Generation, right? Why? Because of war. My point about geopolitics is that the first priority is not to merely maintain our position of dominance, but to make the rest of the world subservient. Personally, I don't believe that "market conditions" were the cause of the 2000 tech collapse, 9-11, the housing bubble, the banking collapse, or the bailouts. This has all been orchestrated. In each case, billions or even trillions of dollars were wiped off the table - in what is essentially money laundering. All were financed by tax-payers. This is the cause of our economic woes. Do you think that they're done?
    23 May 2013, 12:18 PM Reply Like
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