Though still contending the Volt is safe, GM CEO Akerson says the company will buy back the...


Though still contending the Volt is safe, GM CEO Akerson says the company will buy back the electric vehicle from any owner who is worried it will catch fire. Perspective: there are about 6K Volts on the roads. (previous)

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Comments (34)
  • Conventional Wisdumb
    , contributor
    Comments (1800) | Send Message
     
    Volt = Ford Pinto

     

    I wonder when 60 Mins will expose this toaster on wheels for the complete disaster it is - the car of the future for the Obama administration.

     

    Now that's a metaphor you just can't make up.

     

    Just another unintended consequence of the fraud of man-made global warming science in action. How many trillions of dollars have already been wasted on this scheme?
    1 Dec 2011, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • Omark
    , contributor
    Comments (38) | Send Message
     
    Conventional Wisdom?

     

    Sounds like faux news propaganda to me.. Global warming is real. Trillions ?? Give me a break ... thats what Bush the Destroyer spent to buy our way into this recession.
    1 Dec 2011, 08:29 PM Reply Like
  • laundryanto
    , contributor
    Comments (38) | Send Message
     
    Really tempted to feed this troll.
    1 Dec 2011, 08:53 PM Reply Like
  • godough
    , contributor
    Comments (10) | Send Message
     
    Forget about climate change for a minute and think about the true cost of burning gasoline. The price you pay at the pump is only a fraction of that true cost.

     

    1) Burning gasoline pollutes the air, fouls the water and contaminates the soil. The by-products of its combustion are toxic and make people sick. (Asthma, bronchitis, cancer, COPD, heart disease, etc.) Part of the cost of a gallon is paid through higher healthcare premiums.

     

    2) Sick people are less productive and really sick people are even counterproductive. This lost productivity is a huge cost to society.

     

    3) Our bloated military budget is largely due to our need to defend our fossil fuel interests around the world. So part of the true cost of a gallon of gas is paid in higher taxes to make sure the oil keeps flowing. Also, if we didn't get into so many conflicts our legacy costs for past wars (think Veterans Administration) would be drastically reduced over time.

     

    4) Subsidies to the oil companies. Another cost that we pay through our taxes.

     

    5) Damage to the environment from pollution, spills, accidents, explosions, etc.

     

    This list could probably be longer, but the point is when you add it all up the true price of a gallon of gasoline is probably in the neighborhood of $10-$12/gal. If we had to pay that amount at the pump we'd all be begging GM to sell us a Volt.

     

    The true cost of a gallon of gas paid for at the pump would lead to an electric car in every garage and a solar panel on every roof with which to charge it.
    1 Dec 2011, 11:13 PM Reply Like
  • bigbenorr
    , contributor
    Comments (1142) | Send Message
     
    1) How does burning gasoline foul the water and contaminate the soil? granted it pollutes the air to some extent, but I honestly don't believe that many people are getting sick from it. I work on drilling rigs which are constantly belching out diesel fumes, flaring gas and god knows what else, but I haven't been sick in 10 years, in fact I don't think I could be much healthier.

     

    2) I would bet that most of these "sick people" are just losers looking for an excuse to miss work or slack off on the job. Just shows what a bunch of pansies we have in this country.

     

    3) Oil would still be produced all over the world if the gov't pulled all our troops back home (which I think they should.)

     

    4) Oil companies are the highest taxed industry, period. The fact that the government decides to return a small fraction to certain companies who donate to the right politicians, does not cost taxpayers anything. As a taxpayer, I don't have an inherent claim on the profits of a private company.

     

    5) Oil companies pay this cost (and more), so you can bet you see it at the pump.

     

    The true price of gas is exactly the same as what you pay at the pump (plus taxes). A is A. And there won't be an EV in every garage because there won't be one in MY garage, period.

     

    P.S. if you drive your car during the day, when is your solar panel going to charge it?
    1 Dec 2011, 11:55 PM Reply Like
  • Conventional Wisdumb
    , contributor
    Comments (1800) | Send Message
     
    Big,

     

    Great response.

     

    Not to mention, assertions are not proof. Anyone can make stuff up and sound authoritative.

     

    Repeating the bogus claims of the junk scientists doesn't make them any more plausible.

     

    One volcano spews more "pollution" than we produce as a species in a year and somehow the planet survives - 4 billion years and counting.
    2 Dec 2011, 12:17 AM Reply Like
  • godough
    , contributor
    Comments (10) | Send Message
     
    Here's some links that might shed some light on the subject for you.

     

    http://bit.ly/vD1ILz

     

    http://bit.ly/uosMxp

     

    http://bit.ly/vI99TF

     

    P.S. You would charge your car at night but the solar panel would replace the electricity during the day by feeding back into the grid when energy demand is greatest.
    2 Dec 2011, 01:05 AM Reply Like
  • bigbenorr
    , contributor
    Comments (1142) | Send Message
     
    Ok the only one of those links that has any substance is the first one, and it is 13 years old, plus it was written by a bunch of D.C. lawyers who probably don't even know how to operate a crescent wrench or change a tire, so what qualifies them to opine on an engineering issue?

     

    Let's start with their analysis of subsidies, if you add up all the numbers, (I am only including their tax credits because they also added the cost of building highways, infrastructure, half the DoD budget, etc. I hardly call these "subsidies") you get around 10 billion industry wide, and most of these credits are not specific to oil companies. XOM alone paid something like 20 billion in taxes last year, plus you look at the other big oils and many of them pay an effective tax rate higher than 35% (compared to Obama's buddy GE at 0%). So this idea that they are subsidized is complete BS. Also this report is total propaganda, I think they just tried to think up every possible cost they could somehow link to the use of oil and come up with this massive, shocking cost that everyone would just take at face value (what like we won't need ships, roads, etc. with EV's?)

     

    I can't really even begin to respond to their costs of pollution section, they link everything from urban sprawl to low crop yields to the use of gasoline. They again use their formula of adding up a ridiculous amount of money for various things and blame it all on oil companies.
    2 Dec 2011, 10:57 AM Reply Like
  • Omark
    , contributor
    Comments (38) | Send Message
     
    Bigenorr

     

    Yes Burning gasoline pollutes.. that's a proven fact .. although if you are from Texas I can understand why facts don't get in the way of the oil company hype. You could have cancer and drop dead tomorrow from all the carcinogens you are inhaling but that's your cross to bear it has no relevance here. Your response to # 2 shows you are not part of the 99% and probably believe lying shills like Beck and Limbaaaah..
    Oil companies are the companies with the highest profits.. of course they should pay the most tax.. thats a no brainer. If the taxpayer giveaway in subsidies to mega rich oil companies that is so small as you say they don't need it then why do their thousands of lobbyists cry poor whenever it come up to eliminate them.

     

    Alternative energy is the future.. regardless of what you think.. Global warming in fact is a red herring and has no relevance to this conversation. Oil is a finite commodity whose price is manipulated by speculators we need alternative sources to bring the price down.
    I agree with one of the other posters here.. natural gas it the logical alternative with the best chance of challenging the oil mongers.
    2 Dec 2011, 03:36 PM Reply Like
  • bigbenorr
    , contributor
    Comments (1142) | Send Message
     
    I don't listen to Beck or Limbaugh, I prefer to draw my own conclusions about things, I certainly don't lump myself in as part of "the 99%" although I am not rich enough to be in the 1%. The Oil industry has the highest profits because we work our asses off around the clock to feed the world's oil demand, and we do a pretty damn good job of it. I don't see why that should force our employers to pay the highest effective tax rates in the country. I am fine with eliminating tax credits and the like, but the rates need to come down on personal and corporate taxes.

     

    I agree that alternatives are the future, but in my opinion, EV's are not. Nat gas is good, although I have doubts about its viability in transportation, of course it comes from the same oil companies you love to hate (all the while consuming the benefits they provide.) Oil is finite, but it will never run out, although it could eventually be depleted to the point that it is no longer economically feasible to extract. I don't expect that to happen in my lifetime, even if the rate of consumption continues to grow, there is so much oil left in the ground it is ridiculous.
    2 Dec 2011, 05:56 PM Reply Like
  • labas112
    , contributor
    Comments (496) | Send Message
     
    I haven't heard any bad news on the Nissan Leaf. Is this just a GM disaster?
    1 Dec 2011, 03:53 PM Reply Like
  • Conventional Wisdumb
    , contributor
    Comments (1800) | Send Message
     
    I think they only sold about 1500 of them in the US and assuming people aren't afraid of driving them the lower number might explain the lack of a similar problem but we'll see.

     

    Not sure why anyone would buy a vehicle where you live in constant fear of running out of energy to keep it going - no AC, no heater, no radio, no fun, and no way to refuel if you run out - what a POS. Take this out in the winter and get stuck in a storm? All of this for only $36,000!

     

    On the other hand, you get what you deserve for buying into the global warming fraud in the first place. The only thing that pisses me off is the fact I'm supporting this lifestyle choice with my financing of the tax credit.

     

    At least you can "feel good about yourself for saving the planet" (smirk).
    1 Dec 2011, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS-2.0
    , contributor
    Comments (528) | Send Message
     
    Conventional Ignorance,

     

    Did you not read the Headline, that there is already about 6000 Volts on the road?

     

    Please provide data for your comments, re sales, vehicle range and capabilities that you claim (Inaccurately) out of ignorance.
    1 Dec 2011, 08:59 PM Reply Like
  • Conventional Wisdumb
    , contributor
    Comments (1800) | Send Message
     
    1980,

     

    The question from Labas was about Nissan Leaf's. I guess it's too much to expect you to have learned the basic skills associated with reading comprehension - I'm guessing you must be a recent college grad.

     

    That's 6000 losers who wasted their money in any event.

     

    At least they can use them for a massive hot dog roast when the sucker bursts into flames.

     

    Seriously, you have to work hard to remain so ignorant about how brainwashed you have been by the environmental propaganda. Expand your horizons, read a bit and you might just find that you have been used and abused by those you trust.

     

    http://bit.ly/u4Nywi
    1 Dec 2011, 09:37 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS-2.0
    , contributor
    Comments (528) | Send Message
     
    Conven,

     

    You mean your answers was in response to Labas?

     

    My apologies for the misunderstanding. The data you were referring to was re The Volt, as the was the Headline, and you did not address your response, to anybody specific.

     

    Any support of my limited for the Volt revolves solely around the engineering and function, not the politics of how it came to be, nor it's economic viability, or it's marketability.

     

    Anybody that has followed me knows. Nobody is more against the Manufacured Scam, that is being propogated regarding green energy. I totally agree with your post. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Next time, start your post with the name of whom you are responding to.

     

    Regards.

     

    http://bit.ly/vBXqPi
    1 Dec 2011, 10:02 PM Reply Like
  • Conventional Wisdumb
    , contributor
    Comments (1800) | Send Message
     
    1980,

     

    It takes guts to apologize. I accept.

     

    These forums being based upon solely upon the written word become rife with miscommunication so I completely understand where you are coming from.

     

    The best engineered toaster in the world is still a toaster - as a car the Volt is a pretty bad iteration of the real thing. If it were half the price of a conventional car then I would share the contention that it was indeed an engineering marvel because it would actually represent an improvement not just a change.

     

    The physics of energy are immutable and until we can create a Tesla style electrical grid there is no way that batteries will provide an energy or convenience advantage over gasoline.

     

    As far as I can tell hybrids are already a much better product so I don't understand the need for the Leaf or the Volt given the alternatives. This is a dead end based upon the direction they are heading in now.
    1 Dec 2011, 10:15 PM Reply Like
  • zorrba
    , contributor
    Comments (428) | Send Message
     
    Fossil fuels get five times more corporate welfare subsidies globally that renewable energies. Your tax dollars are being wasted by GOP carbon loving war mongers.
    1 Dec 2011, 10:33 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS-2.0
    , contributor
    Comments (528) | Send Message
     
    Zorrba,

     

    Really?

     

    How much taxes did AONE or Solyndra pay vs XOM or COP.

     

    Get off it.

     

    Nobody's buying.

     

    BTW, any tax breaks big oil may have got, make the Carbon Based electricity you used to run your computer to post here, more affordable for you.

     

    Companies don't pay tax. They collect it and pass on the necessary cost to customers.
    1 Dec 2011, 10:36 PM Reply Like
  • Conventional Wisdumb
    , contributor
    Comments (1800) | Send Message
     
    1980,

     

    When you read Zorba's bio it explains why he's so misinformed and tendentious.

     

    He is a watermelon - green on the outside and red in the middle.
    2 Dec 2011, 12:20 AM Reply Like
  • Benjamin Goldman
    , contributor
    Comments (87) | Send Message
     
    it's not just about "saving the planet", it's also about lowering our dependence on foreign oil so our economy isn't dependent on what's going on in the middle east. the fact of the matter is that electric car technology still isn't to the point where they can become commercially available to everyone. just let celebrities and "innovative" consumers buy the cars for now and the technology will improve significantly over the next decade and buying electric will actually become a viable option. that's how it's worked for all technology in the history of mankind.
    1 Dec 2011, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • bigbenorr
    , contributor
    Comments (1142) | Send Message
     
    Battery powered electric cars have existed for over 100 years, and they have always sucked. I don't see that changing in the next decade.

     

    I see no problem with hybrids, although apparently the volt has some issues. Prius is probably the best in that space.
    1 Dec 2011, 05:07 PM Reply Like
  • kcr357
    , contributor
    Comments (592) | Send Message
     
    I agree batteries can improve immensely with new tech, but it seems for the most part they are more and more resorting to exotic and rare elements; keep in mind if EV's are gonna replace gas, we gotta have enough to make 300 million batteries just for the US.
    1 Dec 2011, 08:36 PM Reply Like
  • Pappy's Persimmons
    , contributor
    Comments (7) | Send Message
     
    If it has to be plugged in, it has a carbon footprint. Go natural gas instead. Just a minor mod for an internal combustion engine and replace those heavy batteries with a natural gas fuel tank. Just like a metro bus.
    1 Dec 2011, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2229) | Send Message
     
    Rumor is they are going to convert the Volts into bumper cars.
    1 Dec 2011, 08:07 PM Reply Like
  • DocDoom777
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    "... (I)t's also about lowering our dependence on foreign oil so our economy isn't dependent on what's going on in the middle east." Pull the other one. That would be meaningful if the Obama regime that is pushing these useless feel-good toys weren't also putting roadblocks in the way of expanding domestic energy production. Oil drilling is largely blocked. No new refineries or nukes have been built in three decades. Obama says he will bankrupt the coal industry. And we are concerned about foreign oil?

     

    That aside, what is generating the electricity to charge the Voltmobiles? A: primarily coal and nuclear power, which the ecowackos detest with a monomaniacal passion. So, buy cars that will ramp up electricity demand while opposing new base-load generating plants and trying to shut down the existing ones. Logic has never been a Gorebot's forte.
    1 Dec 2011, 09:14 PM Reply Like
  • mness
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    This ecowacko charges her Leaf by solar. No carbon footprint. We're just tree huggers. We are aware that this is not an easily scalable solution. Hybrids are a much better use of resources overall. It is only economically reasonable for us because of the federal tax credit for solar and our utility's incentive program of 12 cents per KWH of electricity generated. Nevertheless, it can be done.

     

    As the owner of both, I must say that the Leaf compares favorably for comfort and handling to a 2004 Prius.
    2 Dec 2011, 12:08 AM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4738) | Send Message
     
    When are people going to realize that there is no such thing as "Clean energy"? Batteries are horribly pollutive with heavy metals and acids, and Solar Power still needs conventional power to manufacture it, and then it isn't even good enough for your entire home.

     

    What is wrong with hybrids? Why can't we just use those? Are you telling me you can't produce a high performance hybrid that gets 50mpg and goes 0-60 in 5 seconds? Also, turbo charging 2 litre vehciles and smaller for use in SUV's. You can squeez 200hp out of a 1.5L engine turbo charged, and make it AWD. Who takes a Lexus SUV off road? Seriously, are you gonna take your $60,000 SUV camping? NO!
    2 Dec 2011, 12:56 AM Reply Like
  • kcr357
    , contributor
    Comments (592) | Send Message
     
    I would be ecstatic if they would just go back to cars without more electronics than an F22 raptor; forgo the 7 airbags and mandatory stability control, hell, put manual windows back in, I'm not obese to the point I can't reach across the car and roll em down myself. Less weight=better mpg's and acceleration. My friend's early 90's CRX got better mileage than today's econoboxes.
    3 Dec 2011, 10:23 PM Reply Like
  • grunlowen
    , contributor
    Comments (51) | Send Message
     
    Props to the folks at Chevy for trying! The more innovation is attempted, the more will succeed.

     

    Like the scuderi engine. Hopefully this design will make it into cars within the next few years. http://bit.ly/q4BaOW
    Quote:
    Results also showed that up to 35 percent decrease in fuel consumption (i.e., up to 54 percent increase in MPG) was achievable when compared to the model Nissan Sentra using a stock engine without fuel cutoff.
    2 Dec 2011, 02:49 AM Reply Like
  • DocDoom777
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    "This ecowacko charges her Leaf by solar." And kudos for that. No one is saying, "Don't use it." If it feels good to save the planet, who can argue with that? BTW, how much pollution is being created in the manufacture of SPV cells?

     

    "It is only economically reasonable for us because of the federal tax credit for solar and our utility's incentive program of 12 cents per KWH of electricity generated." Ay, there's the rub. When something is proclaimed to be "green" but no one wants it, use taxpayer dollars to subsidize it so that is appears to compete with conventional technology.

     

    The Volt and the Leaf are NOT beloved, as indicated by the pathetic sales. Tree hugging is wonderful, but reality bites. I and the vast majority of my peers prefer a car that can carry us several hundred miles, refuel in a few minutes, and go several hundred more miles. The idea of a 40-mile range between charges is not warming the cockles of our pea-pickin' hearts.

     

    Peace!
    2 Dec 2011, 09:34 AM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2229) | Send Message
     
    The whole point here is that things can be improved. I am not a Volt or Leaf owner but recognize that we cannot go on without making some changes and I do not profess to know what those changes are. It does not pay to be closed minded.
    2 Dec 2011, 10:47 AM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4738) | Send Message
     
    I would love a battery powered car, but battery power isn't there. It won't be for a long long time. If I can't get 2 hours of constant use from my smart phone out its battery. And supposedly cell phone batteries are the most advanced lithium ion. The volt can't go more than 60 miles on a charge which is only a double of what the EV did in the 1990s, and that was 20 years ago. At this rate we'll never see a fully battery powered car.
    2 Dec 2011, 11:55 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS-2.0
    , contributor
    Comments (528) | Send Message
     
    madav,

     

    FYI:

     

    The volt can only travel about 35 miles, before having to switch over to gasoline after a full charge.
    3 Dec 2011, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4738) | Send Message
     
    Even worse, so we are no better off than we were 25 years ago...hence HYBRIDS!
    3 Dec 2011, 11:53 PM Reply Like
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