Seeking Alpha

Reuters reports 9 countries have joined the 17 eurozone countries in drafting a new treaty for...

Reuters reports 9 countries have joined the 17 eurozone countries in drafting a new treaty for fiscal union. That makes 26, leaving the U.K. as the only opt-out for now. It's important to realize 26 European parliaments/populaces have yet to have their say.
Comments (33)
  • My understanding
    Step 1
    What has been discussed yesterday is not a new treaty but inter government agreements ie no need to go in front of parliements


    Step 2
    treaty changes to ensure fiscal union
    9 Dec 2011, 07:28 AM Reply Like
  • Remains to be seen. Ireland, Sweden, and Finland are already making rumblings about that.
    9 Dec 2011, 07:30 AM Reply Like
  • Pesky democracies...why can't the peasants just be quiet and do what their betters tell them to do?
    9 Dec 2011, 07:35 AM Reply Like
  • Are you suggesting that the peasant know what's best?
    9 Dec 2011, 08:47 AM Reply Like
  • Good point - here in the US, many only know what Fox News tells them. But at least most officials are voted in.


    Still, people generally know when their leaders/bankers/etc are screwing them.
    9 Dec 2011, 10:04 AM Reply Like
  • Maybe they don't, but they're being signed up for whatever "agreement" it is that these idiots come up with. The idiots have done such a fine job so far, right?
    9 Dec 2011, 11:02 AM Reply Like
  • Exactly who needs to listen to the 99%.
    9 Dec 2011, 01:33 PM Reply Like
  • They're more like the 0.99%.


    Get rid of the idiot vote: Bring back the poll tax, raise the voting age to 25 and require the passage of a civics test.
    9 Dec 2011, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • Nobody values anything that is just given to them.... If it is earned it carries value.


    L.Ron Hubbards one good idea IMO: You have to earn citizenship to receive the benefits of being a citizen (Vote, Social welfare ect...) no free lunch...
    9 Dec 2011, 07:06 PM Reply Like
  • It is a treaty. It doesn't have to involve all members of the Euro zone nor go through the European Union to be a valid treaty.


    Second of all, there is really no difference between a treaty and what you call an 'inter government agreement.
    10 Dec 2011, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • You're confused. This is not an agreement imposed by the EU. It is an agreement among sovereign state to move closer to fiscal union.


    In fact, the EU bureaucracy were bystanders during these negotiations. It all came down to the elected leaders of the Euro zone states.
    10 Dec 2011, 02:05 PM Reply Like
  • 1. Sweden is irrelevant. It's not on the Euro.
    2. Finland is too small. This is a German decision.
    3. Ireland avoided default thanks to the generosity of the EU. Not a power player.


    PS: Seekingalpha needs to cut back on the fear mongering, which is pervasive among the edtiors and contributers.
    10 Dec 2011, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • Democracy only works if leaders show leadership. And leadership many times means making decisions that are highly unpopular. FDR prepared the US for WWII, but at the time he was cast as a war monger by isolationist Republicans.
    10 Dec 2011, 02:09 PM Reply Like
  • Doesn't each individual country now have to Ratify the treaty which is really where a commitment to change is going to show...


    Sign any piece of paper you want but without actually approving those changes AND living by those changes signing a treaty is more lip service from the PIIGS and their enablers.
    10 Dec 2011, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • of course, David...we should sit down and shut up while the Central Bankers fix everything! :)
    9 Dec 2011, 08:08 AM Reply Like
  • The bureaucrats in Brussels won't let the populations stand in their way - in every country that requires referendums, when the people have voted no, either there is a revote or they find a way to bypass the will of the people and send it through parliaments.
    9 Dec 2011, 08:10 AM Reply Like
  • Sounds a bit like our country. We did not want TARP or any of the other bailouts of the banks and Wall Street firms. Congress voted them down initially. Subsequently, in an end - around midnight vote ( when the citizenry was asleep) they reversed and voted for the bailouts as crafted by the three wise men( not!) ) Paulson, Bernanke and Geitner. Bush and his advisors- geniuses were also asleep at the switch , but that was not unusual for them.


    Brussels is dedicated and determined to get their way, regardless of the public's will or sentiment. I never could understand how or why Brussels was chosen to be the center of the EU universe. But I guess that doesn't matter as the bureaucrat- geniuses come from a variety of EU member states. Still, I would like to know who is/are the powers that crafted their disastrous organizational procedures and policies that override the will of the member states citizenry. It just goes to show us again, that corruption and the pursuit of power and wealth has not borders.


    Central planning always results in the citizenry bearing the burden, while the wealthy and well placed walk away with the gold. I predict that China will be another example of this phenomena in the coming years.
    9 Dec 2011, 08:45 AM Reply Like
  • It's not 26 countries, it's 26 committees of appointed bureaucrats and bankers. Do they really think they can move forward without the support of the populous and do they honestly believe they can get agreements from 26 parliaments? NO!
    They are delaying the inevitable to buy themselves more time to protect their own assets.
    9 Dec 2011, 08:12 AM Reply Like
  • Blueline,


    This agreement was not brokered by the EU. The EU had nothing to do with it.


    It was a joint decision made by France and Germany's leaders.
    10 Dec 2011, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • A I P... You have called the SA commenter's, editors, and contributors, babblers, confused, fear mongers, and ignorant.


    People in a discussion who have to resort to childish name calling have no credibility and what ever point you were attempting make becomes irrelevant.
    11 Dec 2011, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • But they are ...


    11 Dec 2011, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • Right on! The " American in Paris" is a know it all with a distinctly beaucratic viewpoint that does nothing to help us understand the problem and seek solutions to it. Let's hope the people in Europe do not hold his views as they will lead us nowhere good.
    11 Dec 2011, 03:06 PM Reply Like
  • Coward in Paris has 3600 comments. 3599 are Looney Left nonsense. People value his input as much as they value Obama‚Äôs Kool-Aid. You're either going to ask for more or you going to go throw up from its ingredients of hate, bigotry, class warfare and vile perversion of truth.
    11 Dec 2011, 07:35 PM Reply Like
  • Bravo, I have only see a few , but, you did a good job on his bio. Maybe he works with Zakaria an other Obama operatives.
    12 Dec 2011, 04:39 AM Reply Like
  • What if member countries still violate budget rules?


    Penalties? I got no money, only my dead body!!!
    9 Dec 2011, 08:35 AM Reply Like
  • I suppose you can get a bail out to pay the penalties...
    9 Dec 2011, 10:02 AM Reply Like
  • Great article in yesterday's WSJ about countries that met with superior economic performance by avoiding the Euro.
    What we're seeing is Europe United at any cost, no matter what the austerity or loss of democratic values.
    9 Dec 2011, 08:46 AM Reply Like
  • the plan will come together no matter the crumblings, which is IMO just political theater for benefit of their constituents, they have been and will continue to be joined because self preservation is the great motivator for all, members have little choice in the matter, if they leave they die a quick economic death, if they stay they die more slowly but can hope for a better tomorrow.
    9 Dec 2011, 09:03 AM Reply Like
  • So, do you think this will end badly? Even if the Eurocrats craft their plan to save themselves, ultimately they will lose control. At this point we still have a relatively quiet populace, as they scratch their heads and try to figure out how it will end, and how it will effect them. When they figure it out all #$%^&^^^^ will break lose.
    9 Dec 2011, 09:14 AM Reply Like
  • Cameron was badly advised. Should have had real position "monetary union now evidently requires fiscal union, the UK subscribes to neither". Instead UK painted itself into a corner defending City of London. Sakozy must be delighted.
    9 Dec 2011, 10:05 AM Reply Like
  • Badly advised? Far from it. You have to know what fiscal sovereignty means to know what its worth. The ghost of PT Barnum is who's delighted.
    9 Dec 2011, 12:15 PM Reply Like
  • I'm with Native Texan. Too many stooopid people get to vote, some more than once.
    9 Dec 2011, 02:40 PM Reply Like
  • tic tic tic tic. The "fiscal compact " is a joke an Cameron is the real winner. And, Merkal has been the rock throughout.


    Austerity is the answer ,but, it will kill the patient an that is why the US politicos are trapped. The US needs a 1000 times the austerity the EU PIGS need an that would cause a depression for the 50% of Americans not currently in one.


    Fed Ben has kept this shell scam going,but, it will end in a monster crash. I'm 80 now an have seen a lot in my time and I look forward to what's coming an prey I will see it.


    tic tic tic tic tic etc...
    11 Dec 2011, 04:19 AM Reply Like
DJIA (DIA) S&P 500 (SPY)