Seeking Alpha

After reviewing Herbalife's (HLF +3%) short interest data, DA Davidson analyst Tim Ramey ponders...

After reviewing Herbalife's (HLF +3%) short interest data, DA Davidson analyst Tim Ramey ponders whether Bill Ackman has thrown in the towel and "boxed" his short position on the stock. One option Ramey postulates is that Ackman may have sold deep in-the-money European-style put options to a counterparty, thereby significantly reducing his short exposure but allowing him to continue saying he hasn't covered. The pain has got to be great for Ackman right now on this one, the stock's total return is already pushing well over +40% YTD.
Comments (14)
  • G. Hudson
    , contributor
    Comments (316) | Send Message
     
    If anyone including Bill Ackman would have taken the time to read my Seeking Alpha articles explaining why Herbalife is not a pyramid, they would have either saved themselves a lot of money and/or made a lot of money.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    NOTE: As a former owner of a retail chain of apparel stores, I could have saved Ackman even more money by telling him it wasn't going to be as easy as he thought changing JC Penney's retail model AND NOW I will tell him that changing back isn't going to be that easy either.
    13 Jun 2013, 01:32 PM Reply Like
  • Mike Maher
    , contributor
    Comments (2723) | Send Message
     
    Ackman announced he was short with the stock around $47, and Herbalife has come round trip back to about $47. He's likely break even on the position, maybe down marginalably because of dividends, but I seriously doubt he was adding to his shorts in the 20's.
    13 Jun 2013, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • J Collins
    , contributor
    Comments (178) | Send Message
     
    Ackman would have made a killing on his short on HLF but for Carl Icahn. Everyone worth their salt on Wall Street knows that after closing his hedge fund and opting to use his personal $20 billion to do what he does best, Icahn is almost unstoppable. If Ackman is smart, he would unwind his position ASAP!
    13 Jun 2013, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • Zeus2012
    , contributor
    Comments (707) | Send Message
     
    Ackman could have locked in a significant gain even with the involvement of Icahn. The problem here is Ackman - his ego and bombastic approach is not always healthy for his investors.
    13 Jun 2013, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • C44
    , contributor
    Comments (14) | Send Message
     
    18+ points and climbing.

     

    Lieberman and Nielsen > Ackman

     

    Easy to pick on the weakest kids on the block (MLM), not like anyone with a brain in their head things he did anything with HLF than save his 2012 performance returns. So if you believed from the very beginning that it was exactly what Ichan called him out for, it has been a fantastic 2013.

     

    Strange that all of the "shorts" are gone. No articles, guess Ackman doesn't have enough profit from this position to continue spreading "disinformation" about the company by paying people to write articles.

     

    Fusion Research was right on course months ago. Thanks Bill, my 25,000 shares appreciate it. Not selling until at least another 15 points, should be an interesting summer.
    13 Jun 2013, 02:33 PM Reply Like
  • G. Hudson
    , contributor
    Comments (316) | Send Message
     
    The silence is deafening from Bill (H)Ackman- no comment on someone accusing him of being in the process of taking steps to cover his HLF short-> When this all started the moment someone would try to say anything about his HLF short position, he would either issue a statement or be on the TV countering the information.

     

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm- I wonder if Tim Raney could be right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...
    13 Jun 2013, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • Continental Kid
    , contributor
    Comments (226) | Send Message
     
    Ackman shorted HLF....and made it public....knowing his influence would help his cause....to cover up his JCP debacle.....Icahn
    Being the consummate professional recognized this....and took the opposit side....then Ackman made it personal by calling Icahn out on it and ...all but called Icahn stupid....Ackman forgot the cardinal rule....don't mess with somebody bigger than you....Ackman made it personal....

     

    Icahn answers to nobody...it's all his money....Ackman can't say the same.....Icahn is much smarter on the Wall Street ways

     

    Ackman is going out on a stretcher.....
    13 Jun 2013, 06:39 PM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    The "Continental Kid" observes.....

     

    "Icahn answers to nobody...it's all his money....Ackman can't say the same.....Icahn is much smarter on the Wall Street ways

     

    Ackman is going out on a stretcher....."
    ******
    Right: And what are those “Wall Street Ways?”

     

    Anything to do with honesty, integrity or empathy for the financially unsophisticated, or children some not even out of high school, ethnic groups, the poor and unsophisticated in third world countries manipulated into joining schemes the legality of which the smartest mind in the world cannot agree on.

     

    It is indeed a sad and sick society we live in.

     

    David Thornton
    14 Jun 2013, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • Mr toolman
    , contributor
    Comments (1219) | Send Message
     
    Yes Mr. Thornton it is. Especially when certain individuals stiff Canadian families trying to help them. Ripoff Report has a nice report on one such person. My question would be why does that person expect something different from others he is not willing to do himself.
    14 Jun 2013, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • G. Hudson
    , contributor
    Comments (316) | Send Message
     
    Herbalife sells a product that is all about helping people lose weight and become more healthy become healthier. It's obvious Herbalife's products must help people lose weight or all those groups of people using their products to lose weight, including those going to their nutrition clubs, would notice that no one is losing weight.

     

    As far as making money, it costs less than a $100 to get in the business, you can get out fairly easily at any time, and you can choose what level of business you want to go after. I would suggest everyone read my Seeking Alpha article- "Insight From A Former MLM Participant Proves Herbalife Is Not An Illegal Pyramid"-

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    If people are thinking about all the ramifications of businesses they invest in, there are plenty of businesses to avoid-

     

    Restaurants that are causing our society to be overweight and become diabetics

     

    Tobacco Industry causing people to die of cancer

     

    Alcohol industry contributing to a lot of people becoming alcoholics

     

    Gambling industry including our state governments contributing to addictions to gambling and huge losses by a lot of people

     

    To many other industries to name that are not the best thing for our society but investors are still investing in.
    14 Jun 2013, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    GHudson wrote....

     

    "Herbalife sells a product that is all about helping people lose weight and become more healthy become healthier."
    *******
    I will say again… it matters not how good a product is and the wonders it can perform if it is “marketed” in an endless chain masked pyramid scheme where individuals believing they can make above average incomes and even become rich end up as the 99%+ that lose with resulting dire consequences in these fraudulent schemes.
    .
    Again, it matters not how good a product is and the wonders it can perform if it is “marketed” in an endless chain masked pyramid scheme.

     

    That is the crucial point I was able to convince a Superior Court Judge to endorse in the failed attempt to sue me for liable in a $10,000,000 S.L.A.P.P.

     

    http://bit.ly/Y79Azo

     

    David Thornton
    14 Jun 2013, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    “Mr toolman” writes…

     

    Yes Mr. Thornton it is. Especially when certain individuals stiff Canadian families trying to help them. Ripoff Report has a nice report on one such person. My question would be why does that person expect something different from others he is not willing to do himself.

     

    Yes I just became aware of that report this week dated February 27, 2013. It’s nonsense. In March of 2013 the author was arrested for assault on a senior citizen. Pay Pal returned the money fraudulently transferred from my credit card and closed his Pay Pal account and being investigated for other matters. This is what happens to whistle-blowers.”

     

    Can we now return to the issue of Herbalife?

     

    David Thornton
    14 Jun 2013, 03:54 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    I'm beginning my research into the best way to short Ackman? Any suggestions?
    14 Jun 2013, 03:55 PM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    To "jmj858" who asks....

     

    "I'm beginning my research into the best way to short Ackman? Any suggestions?"

     

    Yes: Haul Ackman’s lower extremities into court in a liable suit and simply request an Injunction to shut down his activities against $HLF and a Gag Order to "shut him and his supporters up!"

     

    It is far less expensive and more effective than some of the attempted remedies currently being employed by $HLF and their supporters and it probably would bring much needed clarity to the issue because, at the moment all these brilliant business minds, business media, government authorities and the like cannot seem to agree definitively on whether $HLF is a pyramid scam or a legitimate “business opportunity” leaving it impossible for the financially unsophisticated, vulnerable students, the poor and the like to come to a rational informed decision.

     

    So sue Ackman, or someone, and get a legal decision. I am still available. Let’s get a Canadian decision for all the Canadians involved in $HLF or considering getting involved.

     

    If $HLF wins, which the Herbalife side seems confident it can’t lose, it could only help and it requires little valuable time and is soooo inexpensive.

     

    David Thornton
    16 Jun 2013, 02:07 PM Reply Like
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