Seeking Alpha

"Nokia (NOK) has mostly nailed the design with the Lumia 925, but Windows Phone (MSFT) is...

"Nokia (NOK) has mostly nailed the design with the Lumia 925, but Windows Phone (MSFT) is holding it back," writes The Verge's Tom Warren while rating the phone 8.1/10. Warren likes the 925's aluminum build, performance, and low-light camera shots, but Windows Phone's app issues (not just in terms of availability, but also quality relative to similar iOS/Android apps) and missing features (reliable notifications, 1080p display support, etc.) remain a problem. Engadget's Mat Smith offers a similar take. Nokia exec Vesa Jutila admitted last month missing apps remains the "biggest complaint" of Lumia users; Microsoft is trying to address the problem by paying some developers $100K+ to build WP8 apps.
Comments (105)
  • I'll take 8.1/10 right now. You know it'll get better.
    Long Nokia.
    16 Jun 2013, 09:10 PM Reply Like
  • Expensive Metal / Aluminium look is what user craved for. Metal is expensive and most manufacturers made best use of metal by increasing the display surface area of Metal. Take note of HTC One or iPhone. These phones have complete metal exterior and gives the premium look which s3/4 are lacking. Lumia 925 has a big piece of metal, that’s enough for phones back plate. But where did they put it? They have kept it inside the phone and covered it with Plastic. It ended up like a metal bumper on the edges and it doesn’t give premium Metal unibody look. Nokia failed at best use of resource.


    What’s the best use of $8 billion dollar investment by Nokia? It’s offline GPS app. That’s what it costed Nokia to acquire NavTeq platform. To this day the most useful app I could see on windows is Offline GPS. It failed give that ultimate mobile edge. None of the other Nokia apps are of any massive impact on ecosystem.
    Nokia traditional strength is Mobile hardware. It is restricting it’s ability to compete in the market by restricting itself to Windows Phone. Android has become the Windows of PC era, while iOS stays the same position, Windows phone may grab a respectful Linux size of PC market share. I have used Android and Windows Phone, both for reasonable amount of time. Despite the impressive windowsPhone OS I am unable to move away from Android. The reality is Android established itself as leader in this space -despite the technical arguments I have heard- that war is won by Android not by MSFT. This reality won’t roll back to 2009 for Nokia. I appreciate S Elop for turning around the elephant but Nokia Devices division future is not in Windows phone.


    Matching Andorid platform might take few more years, by then Android and smart people at Google could move the goal post few more miles ahead. In the due process shareholders have to keep waiting for the next big phone for ever.
    16 Jun 2013, 10:51 PM Reply Like
  • Sure, Android for the win. You know, since MS are such slouches at OS development. Everyone said the same thing back in 1985 when MS was using DOS and Apple had a "windows" GUI.


    As far as apps go, the Windows phone interface is just getting started, and look what it can do already. Uh, how long did Android take to get where it is? And for most corporate users, Android is near a toy.


    MS Phone is the future for robust application development and corporate power program needs.


    Betting against MS losing the phone platform war is a ridiculous bet because losing the phone platform war would be committing corporate suicide. MS is not quite ready to concede that war, and MS is no dunce with software.
    17 Jun 2013, 12:40 AM Reply Like
  • exactly La Rue


    The reviewers from The verge and engadged are BIASED like no other. I read most reviews of all lumias coming out and those two websites are the worst of all. I am not the only one saying so many commenters are complaining about that.


    Lets be honest, complaining about 1080 on a 4" screen???
    17 Jun 2013, 08:19 AM Reply Like
  • Really? - 1080p on a 4" screen is a problem for this guy?
    16 Jun 2013, 09:18 PM Reply Like
  • Agree on the 1080P thing on a small screen. 720P is good up to 30" TV, so a 4-5" screen should be just fine.
    16 Jun 2013, 10:04 PM Reply Like
  • I use 720p on my 40" all the time with no problem. This guy is nitpicking.
    16 Jun 2013, 11:19 PM Reply Like
  • yeah its a common thing for the nerds on these sites.


    if it was 1080p they would be talking about 4k or something
    17 Jun 2013, 12:17 AM Reply Like
  • I will take a fraction of $100,000 to build an ap!


    [Are the parts hard to get?] :)
    16 Jun 2013, 09:21 PM Reply Like
  • The problem with professional tech reviewers in particular of the type at Verve is that their experience and needs match an incredibly small percentage of the super hardcore who use a million apps many of which are very niche.


    The vast majority of the population neither needs nor cares about them, yet as it is the primary differentiator in the smartphone universe, these reviewers feel compelled to make the point as if in repetition it will gain relevance.


    Take away the app 'concern' which isn't a concern for the vast majority of users, and what do you have? An outstanding device. And that's the bottom line.
    16 Jun 2013, 09:24 PM Reply Like
  • kmi, apps missing for me are car2go and localphone, which are big for me... at least WP8 is finally tmobs wifi calling compatible.


    Yes, there are workarounds, but most people aren't willing to do that.
    16 Jun 2013, 09:59 PM Reply Like
  • Niche apps Alex.
    16 Jun 2013, 10:56 PM Reply Like
  • The problem with App story is – I don’t need millions of apps I just use 8 or 9 apps that’s all I need. I can’t find most of them. Might sound laughable but here is the fact. I am Nokia shareholder bought lumia phones for family but not for myself- That’s the reality.
    My Bank doesn’t care about building windows app. They say they have Android and Iphone app and no plans to make windows any time soon. My Trading platform people told me that it takes a million dollars to build a decent iphone style trading app in windows which they don’t want to commit.
    Most of my regional apps – which I use in my home country- Local new paper or ecommerce Auction site in my part of world and my local language apps are not there. None of them have plans to build one.


    I could be minority but I am a long time supporter of Nokia and owned Nokia phones longer than any other phones.
    16 Jun 2013, 10:57 PM Reply Like
  • I think you are minority. No offense, but it seems that way. People can still use websites on the phone to bank and trade. Personally, I don't trust the apps.
    16 Jun 2013, 11:22 PM Reply Like
  • it was like that with android for a long time. it will change. the joys of being an early adapter
    17 Jun 2013, 12:19 AM Reply Like
  • Guys and gals, once the word is out that Win Phone is here to stay, the apps will flow freely in, just like they have with the Windows OS. Give it a year. And unlike Android, I'll bet that wince MS is paying for the apps, they will give them away preloaded or download on demand.
    17 Jun 2013, 12:43 AM Reply Like
  • User


    I'd say you need to change brokers. TD Ameritrade already has a Win Phone app for its trading platform.
    17 Jun 2013, 12:46 AM Reply Like
  • Lots of people have niche apps. It just takes one. I'm itching to go to the Nokia WP8, but won't until apps i use almost daily are avail.


    BTW, car2go is not a niche in Seattle, Austin, Boston, etc.
    17 Jun 2013, 01:00 AM Reply Like
  • "The problem with App story is – I don’t need millions of apps I just use 8 or 9 apps that’s all I need. I can’t find most of them."


    Same here. I walked away from the Lumia 920s, as nice as it is, because WP8 lacks essential functionality almost three years after inception and the non-English app situation is dire. Especially the <25 demographic is fickle, not having the top apps available - in their original form - is holding many back from WP8 devices, irrational as it may seem.
    17 Jun 2013, 01:52 AM Reply Like
  • Remember, though, that the majority of WP8/Nokia sales are outside the U.S. and the non-English app situation is not improving much.
    17 Jun 2013, 01:54 AM Reply Like
  • @ User 6348921


    I don't get it.
    Why do you need special apps for WP if you just can log in on your bank account using internet banking on your phone?


    I can log in on all of my internet banking accounts on my Lumia 800.
    I can trade with my Lumia 800 just by logging in to the site of my broker.
    And if you really fancy special financial apps, there are many stock apps available on WP, MSN Money Stocks, My Stocks, Portfolio, Account tracker, etc.
    17 Jun 2013, 04:31 AM Reply Like
  • Monsieur Wonder, of course practically anything can be accessed via the browser. We all know that. The thing is though - iOS and Android users have been suckled on the app paradigm for very many years. Many commercial services launching today advertise on billboards "iOS and Android app - get it here". Sweden's or Germany's biggest fast food delivery services - no WP8 app. French online clothing stores - no WP8 app. Consumers are fickle, whether you like it or not.


    Nokia, needing to entice users to switch to WP8, would be very ill advised to alienate its potential customer base declaring "face it, dudes and dudettes, use the browser, stupid!".
    17 Jun 2013, 05:06 AM Reply Like
  • @ System


    "Especially the <25 demographic is fickle, not having the top apps available - in their original form - is holding many back from WP8 devices, irrational as it may seem."


    "the non-English app situation is not improving much"


    Do you have sources, analyses or studies to back up your pessimistic statements?
    17 Jun 2013, 05:07 AM Reply Like
  • System, of course calling your potential customer base "stupid" is not efficient. Finally we come to agree on something for the last few weeks.


    However, customers and banks (app suppliers) change.
    Phones, phablets and tablets change, as they have higher screen resolutions.


    Customers soon come to realize that using their usual internet site for internet banking is just as easy and it does not need another learning curve.
    Banks on the other hand, soon come to realize that they can save huge amounts of costs by not making special apps anymore.


    Phones are getting bigger, higher screen resolutions and more processing power. Inevitably special apps which hold the same purpose as internet sites will disappear.
    17 Jun 2013, 05:37 AM Reply Like
  • Well, I'm not leaving work today to photograph billboards for food services, accommodation services or public transport. You can just as well visit popular services' websites to see there are no WP8 apps for many.


    As for the young demographic, please visit Ars Technica, The Verge, BGR and whatnot and count the plethora of non-bullying users that, in a calm voice, simply state that it is the top app situation that holds them back from switching, even though they actually rate Nokia's devices as desirable as such. I have spoken to over a hundred students when I occasionally give lectures - it is ORIGINAL and LATEST apps, not a problem with the devices or even the looks of WP8.


    In any case, my statements are not pessimistic at all. They are observations from the vantage point of someone who works in product development and marketing and therefore prefers to dig out possible shortcomings, unforced errors, etc. I never say never or deride other retail investors that buy where I rather won't - but at the moment, I think Nokia as a business in relation to Microsoft and what happens in the consumer sphere is a complex nexus that makes the stock too risky - for me.
    17 Jun 2013, 05:38 AM Reply Like
  • System,


    Call it what you want. You spread around all kind of negativity about WP and Nokia without providing evidence or links to your sources.
    Saying that I should search on the internet to back up your statements is a bit too easy, don't you think?


    PS. By now, I already know you work in the product development, in the marketing industry, you are lecturing students, you have a high IQ, you have connections in the advertisement industry, you speak to many designers, etc. Still you found the time to post more than 2.900 comments.
    17 Jun 2013, 05:59 AM Reply Like
  • Fidelity also has an app for Windows Phone.
    17 Jun 2013, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • Your bank will care about building windows app's, they do not have a choice anymore. Instead of complaining here about the apps you should complain at your bank. building an app is mostly expensive because of design. If a bank or another organization already has an app the design is already done. I think building or non building decisions of apps are based on the same biased feelings the reviewers of the above articles have. They are not getting build because somebody at some board room is against it for the hate of windows/Microsoft.


    I understand the frustration of not being able to have an app that you really need but writing negative and unfair about it does not really help. I assume your wife and kids love their phone. you could have give tried to end your comment here with that instead of saying that MS and Nokia already lost a war they have not even really started. I think they are doing really very impressive things in avery short time and I truly believe the will come high in rankings, ratings and in the business market. 8.1 is really not so bad as far as I am concerned, can't wait for the future of this very well made build OS and hardware.




    ps- just a tip
    AppSwitch might be useful if you are looking for equivalent apps
    AppSwitch will find them from Froid and Ios for w8
    17 Jun 2013, 08:42 AM Reply Like
  • "Still you found the time to post more than 2.900 comments."


    Far more, no longer from a Lumia though. One of the perks of owning a good business :)


    Then, I do not have the time to copy and paste thousands of article comments from so many months for you; as Nokia long, it is your job to dig out consumer sentiment statements and face the music. If you want constant back-slapping and yes-men, please join a religion.
    17 Jun 2013, 09:32 AM Reply Like
  • I agree with you mr wonder.
    whenever I see a comment from system I go on to the next (without reading his comment) because he is always bad mouthing wp8 and nokia


    17 Jun 2013, 09:35 AM Reply Like
  • Apps will continue to be less of an issue as we get closer to Blue and future updates. Blue is a step closer to a unified, shared kernel and the closer MSFT gets the sooner the app problem goes away, theres a lot more incentive to write an app for a platform the spans desktop, mobile, and tablet.
    17 Jun 2013, 04:53 PM Reply Like
  • "Apps will continue to be less of an issue as we get closer to Blue and future updates."


    Only problem many NOK longs don't realise - getting closer seems to be an asymptotic action; converging towards the goal, but never getting there.
    17 Jun 2013, 05:00 PM Reply Like
  • I know if seems like a race, but its more a war of attrition and MSFT has the money to stay in it and hold onto third place( in terms of global market share) if not better
    17 Jun 2013, 05:18 PM Reply Like
  • For me, aside from financials, the point to get back into NOK is when Microsoft starts to behave properly and customer oriented in updating and developing WP8.
    17 Jun 2013, 07:28 PM Reply Like
  • I'm finding it interesting that in the last week, while you were sounding out the negatives (perceived or otherwise) of WP, your 150 share sold position would have netted you 25 thousand USD plus.


    Those are the types of things that people that run businesses should pay a bit more attention to :-)
    17 Jun 2013, 09:11 PM Reply Like
  • B of A has pretty good WP8 app as well.
    17 Jun 2013, 11:14 PM Reply Like
  • Good point systembolaget
    17 Jun 2013, 11:15 PM Reply Like
  • Tor,


    Agreed, and I don't understand "apps" when you can run a full Firefox browser and access any website through it. People think they need an app to search for "app". I guess they have forgotten the word "browser."
    18 Jun 2013, 01:14 AM Reply Like
  • If you don't use a Lumia because it's not as good as Android, and you think NOK is a fail, why not just short it and be happy?
    18 Jun 2013, 01:15 AM Reply Like
  • Sys,


    You could say the same thing about Apple--they are going in the opposite direction now. Therefore, they are not long material. Myopic, at best.
    18 Jun 2013, 01:17 AM Reply Like
  • jim,


    Those types of apps are for the browser challenged. lol
    18 Jun 2013, 01:18 AM Reply Like
  • "I'm finding it interesting that in the last week, while you were sounding out the negatives (perceived or otherwise) of WP, your 150 share sold position would have netted you 25 thousand USD plus.


    Those are the types of things that people that run businesses should pay a bit more attention to :-)"


    Absolutely. Unlike you, who buys exactly on the lows and sells exactly on the highs, I am far less skilled.
    18 Jun 2013, 01:21 AM Reply Like
  • "People think they need an app to search for "app". I guess they have forgotten the word "browser."


    Yes, well observed. The average consumer thinks and acts that way. See consumer research on desktop browser search field use, people searching for Google, Bing, et al. That's just the way it is, for a long time yet.
    18 Jun 2013, 01:24 AM Reply Like
  • No, I don't, but if you had held for long, that would just be the starting point. You should join us on the money ride, because it is going to be very profitable.
    18 Jun 2013, 03:52 AM Reply Like
  • System


    "Absolutely. Unlike you, who buys exactly on the lows and sells exactly on the highs, I am far less skilled. "


    LOL. Funny.
    18 Jun 2013, 07:00 PM Reply Like
  • Sys


    Sad cattle. :(
    18 Jun 2013, 07:01 PM Reply Like
  • I have to speak up. My mom and I moved from feature phones to Lumia 822's this Spring. We love our Lumia phones! We do not miss "apps" -- mom plays games from Xbox downloads, and I have what I need - and love Skybox, Bloomberg, Accuweather, and live tiles of the photos I take of family outings.


    I seem to recall that 40% of those attracted to Windows Phone upgrade from feature phones. So - those nit-picky people comparing the phone to other smartphones, don't get it in my opinion. WP audience is not them. Give it a rest. Stop spoiling it for the rest of us.


    I would not own an iPhone or an Android for any incentive. Bland, dull, ugly, too simple, made for the technically illiterate. That is my opinion. You're stuck with it.
    16 Jun 2013, 09:26 PM Reply Like
  • If Nokia wants to make it they need to get Android users to switch to Lumia. That's where the apps are locking in the users.


    Haven't you seen that so many websites, shops, and stores have their own Android and IPhone app that can be downloaded on the phone. Android users are used to this.


    All this could have been avoided with an OS that can run Androids apps MeeGo, Sailfish,... Another problem with Lumia is that it's always supposed to happen in the future, it has been years now. Even I as a long Nokia investor is getting a bit tired. Always selling promises.
    17 Jun 2013, 05:59 AM Reply Like
  • Think the L925 may be a little of a disappointment however, considering EOS is coming.


    Osbourne effect in action.
    16 Jun 2013, 09:52 PM Reply Like
  • Different audiences are targeted by these two models. Lumia 925 clearly targets iPhone users, while EOS targets photographers and desperate geeks. Personally, I'd only look at EOS out of curiosity and for its exceptional technological achievement, however, it's certainly not a phone that I'd ever buy.
    17 Jun 2013, 05:20 AM Reply Like
  • Goog paying OEMs a percentage of the gross to use no charge copies of Android meant many millions of copies of Android were guaranteed to be in the hands of mobile users who were eager to get inexpensive or free phones so app developers were/are eager to participate.
    16 Jun 2013, 10:27 PM Reply Like
  • Where's the Seeking Alpha App?
    16 Jun 2013, 11:38 PM Reply Like
  • mimi,


    It's called Firefox.
    17 Jun 2013, 12:48 AM Reply Like
  • There is no Firefox for WP8. There is no Seeking Alpha app for WP8.
    17 Jun 2013, 01:58 AM Reply Like
  • system,


    No Firefox for WP? Well, now that is ridiculous, for sure. But that's a Mozilla problem. Does WP have a browser? If so, then you see my point.


    I've been reading that the Win Phone platform bans open source anything and no C++ programs. If that's true, WP will never get traction. People don't want proprietary OS's.
    18 Jun 2013, 01:21 AM Reply Like
  • These statements are consistent with everything from the "Verge" and "Engadget", blah blah blah...Love Apple, blah blah blah...Like Android, blah blah blah, don’t like anything Microsoft.


    Let's be clear, most tech media was raised on Mac, learned to appreciate Google and Android as young adults over time and by use. They grew up hating Microsoft and have been seeking revenge of the “other” nerds ever since. Unfortunately, if you spend enough time hating something, you become the thing your hate, Apple and Google have become greedy monopolistic empires just like Microsoft has been accused of being, welcome to capitalism, we didn’t think you’d ever make it ;-)


    Dislike WP all you want, Apples growth is slowing, their copy-cat iOS7 is not inspiring their own fan base. GS4 sales are slowing for Samsung and the reviews weren't that great. Google is headed for trouble with the E.U. and low priced Android sales are about to be smothered by Nokia's “carpet-bomb” price-point attack.


    All of the nonsense about Apples ecosystem being too hard to leave and Androids dominance too powerful to compete against are proving to be rubbish. There are a handful of hardcore Apple and Android fanatics who won't switch to anything else, I say great for them. However, they don't represent the values of most consumers who mostly use their device to snap a picture, txt message, check email, web browsing, social media and a phone call every now and then. All they need to switch is the right price point and differentiation. Give them a great device, a decent OS, great exclusive content and software at the right price point and they are onboard! Nokia and Microsoft have that combo and they are taking share.


    Apple was great in its role as a niche, boutique player with a cult like following, since they’ve been there before; going back should be easy ;-) This will be new to Android groupies so they'll have to adjust. However I’m confident that there’s an app for that.
    16 Jun 2013, 11:52 PM Reply Like
  • the verge is usually a lot better when talking microsoft. engadget outright hate them. as does tgdaily - those bozos have alienated everyone to the extent that they average 2 comments per article.
    17 Jun 2013, 12:20 AM Reply Like
  • And wait till the Win Phone platform integrates seamlessly with corporate Win servers and Xbox everything.
    17 Jun 2013, 12:51 AM Reply Like
  • Your hair might turn grey while waiting.


    17 Jun 2013, 02:00 AM Reply Like
  • Another funny and good comment..
    TOTALLY agree with you


    17 Jun 2013, 09:49 AM Reply Like
  • you hope so right ;o)!!!
    17 Jun 2013, 09:51 AM Reply Like
  • System,


    LOL. I hope not because that is one of the few things that will turn people to the WinPhone platform.
    18 Jun 2013, 01:35 AM Reply Like
  • Sure. You can see by analysing the age-band of verified purchasers in various online shops (carriers, electronics stores) that, for example, the Lumia 52x seems to enjoy popularity in the older demographic. But these assumptions could well be distorted, because the younger demographic is less interested to write after-purchase comments and reviews and is overall more negligent.
    18 Jun 2013, 02:26 AM Reply Like
  • You'll miss out oout on several thousand more in profit while you ponder that.... :-)
    18 Jun 2013, 03:56 AM Reply Like
  • I have often wondered how many apps the average phone owner actually uses, and how many apps they have installed. Most people I ask say they use significantly less than 10, though they often have 30+ or more installed. The exception in my very small study is gamers, they seem to have quite a few more that they use. Would appreciate anyones observations on this subject. As noted above, I would really miss the few apps I use, in particular Fidelity app. Not sure I would switch if Fidelity app is not available, much as I crave a Nokia.
    16 Jun 2013, 11:52 PM Reply Like
  • The Fidelity app is available. It is no better or worse than the ios app. Same with Bank of America app. I personally prefer the web versions and I access them both on my 822.
    17 Jun 2013, 07:16 AM Reply Like
  • The WP complaints are about one thing only "WINDOWS", these people don't like it and won't ever like it!


    Let's take the apps issue, before the rise of Mobile, the desktop software applications war between Apple and Microsoft clearly was won by Microsoft, but you would not have caught one of these publications or their fan base using or promoting Windows or declaring it superior because it had more software title. Despite Apples lack of software, by comparison, they still considered it superior.


    I love the fact that so many investors/traders think WP won't succeed with consumers because of apps, I especially love that it won't venture into enterprise because of lack of VPN, that's my favorite. That's what makes a contrarian trade, you are the minority who see it differently, enjoy that; it is what allows your trade to go higher as capitulation sets in. I only use media and social as a litmus test for sentiment.


    Here is why I don’t let that negative sentiment change my perspective, THEY’VE BEEN WRONG ALL THE WAY FROM $1.60!!!! Let’s look at their track record:


    I recall very clearly that Nokia was supposed to be bankrupt by now, remember the cash burn? What happened, that was written down in every survival horror story article about Nokia, “The Cash Burn part two”.


    Remember the L900 and L800 that sucked so badly that Nokia would not survive to make another attempt? Let’s see we’ve got a 920, 922, 820, 822, 720, 620……..


    Then it stopped being about Nokia, now it’s all about WP, it sucks, and only Android can save them, nobody will ever buy a WP!!! Yet, every time we look at the data, MS WP share keeps growing and pace of its growth is accelerating!


    Hey look, it doesn’t have any apps! Nope, but it’s still growing rapidly!


    Hey look, it doesn’t have enterprise tools for corporate adoption! Nope, but it’s still growing rapidly!


    Hey look, it doesn’t have market share in the U.S.! Nope, but it’s still growing rapidly!


    The point is growth! When they stop moving product, that’s when I’m out. I’m still looking to Q1 and Q2 of 2014 as my next “stay in or get out” waypoint.
    17 Jun 2013, 10:29 AM Reply Like
  • The Verge´s final thoughts are strange sometimes.


    How would you evaluate this?
    Lumia 925
    "Lack of apps"
    A reliable workhorse
    Galaxy S4
    Sheer number of features can be overwhelming
    Performance can suffer in odd Places


    Nokia clearly has improved its time to market, and remember that Q2 result next month is the first Q with Lumia 520, 521,720,925,928 and others.


    Next months of Kantar, Comscore etc, will display Nokia as a Growth Company.
    17 Jun 2013, 12:04 AM Reply Like
  • NOK would have to benefit from Microsoft store within a store presentations at 600 plus Best Buy stores. It pays to have a rich partner.
    17 Jun 2013, 12:34 AM Reply Like
  • Nokia 925 citing? This may be a nerd spoiler ... * spotted on a popular movie about a man in blue with a red cape, Lumia 925.*


    In once scene two people in a bar exchange a file *click* done. I could almost make out tiles on the screen.
    17 Jun 2013, 01:46 AM Reply Like
  • Origi, you are spot-on with your improved time-to-market comment.


    All the perceived flaws re the 9-series really don't matter. Any device has flaws in the hands of todays reviewing Community.


    The one thing I think is being underestimated is the (imo) defeat of BB in the corporate market. And yes, I think Wp and Nokia are going to enjoy the spoils there.


    I also think seamless integration of Wp with Xbox etc is just getting started and MS will put full force behind it. I used to despise MS as much as the next guy, but it's growing on me.


    And it's unlikely just me...
    17 Jun 2013, 05:57 AM Reply Like
  • thank you Doewap,


    That is an honest comment


    17 Jun 2013, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • MS only grew on me when i could use open source and 3rd party software. If the WP platform bans that type of development, WP platforms are going to never catch Android. It will be a slow burn to irrelevance. Balmer is high if he thinks a proprietary OS can compete with an OS that allows 3rd party and open source programs/apps. Totally incompetent. It's only going to take a few really nice 3rd party/Open Source proggies that only run on Android to destroy the proprietary only, closed WP platform.
    18 Jun 2013, 01:40 AM Reply Like
  • when is there going to be a seeking alpha app?
    17 Jun 2013, 07:09 AM Reply Like
  • i am waiting for 925 to come to t-mobile , so i get it with unlimted data for around 80 bucks a month, as intead of 120 for unlimted at verzion
    its pointless the have a 'super phone' with out unlimted data in my opinion.
    17 Jun 2013, 08:01 AM Reply Like
  • JM,


    Verizon is smoking crack charging that much. I use Metro PCS right now, and if I can get 4G unlimited for 80 per month and tether to my laptop, I'll do that too. I've been waiting for 4G tether for years, but have never had it reliable enough to buy it.
    18 Jun 2013, 01:43 AM Reply Like
  • trust me app delvelopers are making apps, b/c they want to make money, they are not waiting on your requests, first one to the table will make the most money.
    17 Jun 2013, 08:02 AM Reply Like
  • I don't get this argument about lacking apps, I use the nokia 822, and if there is no app, I just make a thumbnail of their website, then put it on my screen as a live tile. I did this for cnn for a few months, then now they have the app for w8, and I put that on my main screen instead. Wp8 is by far more advanced than android. I will never move back. Just need to be patient for developers to realize this...
    17 Jun 2013, 08:48 AM Reply Like
  • That's what YOU do, and - fair enough. Consumers, unfortunately, think otherwise.
    17 Jun 2013, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • :o), and another one :o)
    17 Jun 2013, 05:01 PM Reply Like
  • Sys


    Can't argue with stupid consumer bases. True, sad, but true.
    18 Jun 2013, 01:43 AM Reply Like
  • From the 10 commandments of selling: Consumers are never stupid. Consumers are always right.
    18 Jun 2013, 02:28 AM Reply Like
  • System


    I disagree. Consmers are really stupid, and that's why marketers can sell them things they (1) don't need (2) that are inferior and (3) for an inflated price. LMAO
    18 Jun 2013, 07:04 PM Reply Like
  • APP this!


    I suppose I should apologize personally for apps not being translated into the foreign market of your choice. We Americans (USA) are so used to having the best of everything - McDonald's, Denny's, Wal-Mart, rap music... that we overlook the sensibilities of the rest of the world.


    Just this morning I was curious about this supposed lack of apps and discovered you are all correct. According to this article, the USA, with just 5% of the population, has been upstaged by China who now uses more apps than we do.



    In the very first paragraph, you can discover that between China and the US, we use 2/3rds of the apps, which leaves just a third for the rest of you underappreciated losers out there. You know who you are: Europe, the Hula-skirt nations, and places where infomercials are not viewed as something to stare at on a weekend afternoon.


    But I digress... Just this weekend and for the very first time, Google is throwing up teaser ads for Nokia products. For a long time it was Motorola, then Apple, then a mix of Apple/Samsung. My newspaper has been full of the same stuff, with hardly a blip about Nokia for YEARS. Verizon, unlike AT&T, is pitching the 925s on my Chrome interface.


    Why is this a big deal? Ever since NOK went into hiding - at least here in the US, their representation as a competitive threat has been as credible as the Jamaican Bobsled Team. That is changing with the new devices and the deep pockets of Microsoft to provide the needed push to create buzz. Buzz begets sales and sales begets apps. You can go to any Target store in this country and find a few gizmos to complement an Apple or Samsung phone, but not a Windows device because the market isn't large enough to support those ancillary products - YET.


    All this, as everyone knows, takes time and market penetration. Apps will be cloned to take in the new rising star of Win 8 and then they will be translated into Draculinian, and Advanced Yodel and whatever the H*** else you goobers use.


    The most successful NOK product introduction of recent years appears to be the 521 and that time can be measured in months. We hope the 920s will be the series to get the serious attention. When success happens, the vultures of commerce, the app-writers and accessory providers will stumble over themselves to try and catch the wave.


    And if you absolutely can't wait to have those apps RIGHT NOW... move to NYC, you'll fit right in.
    17 Jun 2013, 09:34 AM Reply Like
  • Awe inspiring comments ;-)
    17 Jun 2013, 11:00 AM Reply Like
  • Actually, I can live w/o any "apps." All I need is a good open source browser, which WP bans.
    18 Jun 2013, 01:45 AM Reply Like
  • Not true dwd,


    there are a few, firefox and google don't want ms to include them so it not as always blame MS


    UC browser seems to be pretty good 15659 ratings and 4.5 star


    just check it out
    18 Jun 2013, 01:24 PM Reply Like
  • Surf Cube 3D browser is nice, don't know if it's open source, have not looked.
    18 Jun 2013, 04:02 PM Reply Like
  • Tor,


    MS BANS open source and Firefox is Open Source. They also BAN C++ applications, which Firefox is built on.


    Really stupid, but what can we do?
    18 Jun 2013, 07:05 PM Reply Like
  • It really doesn't matter to me anyway. For anything business and typing intensive, such as writing this comment, I'm going to be tethered to my laptop anyway, which runs Firefox. So I could really care less about $tupid app tricks. The only time I will buy a smart phone is when they really become smart, as in allowing me to tether cheaply, quickly, and reliably enough to stop buying either DSL or Cable.


    But that's me and not the consumer base, and the consumer base doesn't even know what a browser is--they call it the "internet."
    18 Jun 2013, 07:08 PM Reply Like
  • Smart marketing is about not giving everything with version one. You always want to have new features to add that makes customers want to buy the latest model with the new enhancements.
    17 Jun 2013, 10:47 AM Reply Like
  • I guarantee anybody complaining about the top end Nokia phones are using an apple phone or an android run phone.when I got my iPhone I was so proud to have it..but once I tried the Nokia 928, I knew I had an obsolete phone.lets face it Apple got caught wth their pants down..if you can't. Beat them then join Nokia cost only 100.00 and is so much better. If apple builds a better phone I may go back but I doubt it. Your only as good as your last phone.
    17 Jun 2013, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • this is true, iphone feels and looks like a toy now
    17 Jun 2013, 04:46 PM Reply Like
  • Really people,


    It gives me a lot of joy to see so many positive feedback from the majority of commenters.


    When I first laid my eyes on a beta version of W8 I knew they where on to the next level of computing, I bought a touch screen for my desktop, I bought the Nokia 810 from tmobile (I exchanged it for my MUCH loved Blackberry), and I NEADED to have the first surface that came out so I bought the RT on October 26th 2012 (Now owning the pro of course ;o).


    I started to actually read reviews as much as I could with the help of a GREAT app named Discourse.


    Most reviews were negative as hell and I could not believe al that negativity because I loved my new devices. On many websites I showed my "unhappiness" with the reviewers and I was supported by view others.


    Look at where we are today. See the comments above. In 8 months it became at least to the liked part if not even loved part for many users.


    Most negative reviews you read now a days have SO MANY people complaining about the reviewers and today I also see that here.


    THATS AWESOME girls and boys.


    I really think MS and Nokia are on a very good path and I think many of you feel the same :o))))


    Best regards
    17 Jun 2013, 05:28 PM Reply Like
  • tor,


    "I bought a touch screen for my desktop"


    You mean a smuge screen? :)
    18 Jun 2013, 01:47 AM Reply Like
  • No problem for little wet cloth, my screens have never been so clean :o) and it is really fun to use my left screen as my desktop and my right screen for the app side of like a charm!!!
    18 Jun 2013, 04:18 PM Reply Like
  • of course I meant FEW others ;o)


    can wait for the 925 to arrive at Tmobile
    17 Jun 2013, 05:36 PM Reply Like
  • Taking a look at the upcoming 8.1 opportunities for enterprise, what's missing and what's there already:


    Windows Phone 8, The Enterprise, and a two-week adventure (YES, VPN is important!!! But…)
    Takes a look at how WP8 does a good enterprise job (except for VPN), even with the app deficit.


    Pre-beta Windows 8.1 WinRT Developer APIs
    Takes a look at the leaked updates for Win8.1 and WinRT (if WP8.1 mirrors this it could “possibly” mean better enterprise support including VPN, don’t get excited, WP probably won’t get 8.1 until 2014)


    Evidence that Nokia is working on Snapdragon 800 shows up on Nokia's Developer site
    Ok, this one is just for fun and has no enterprise value but BYOD means it’s your device, wouldn’t you like quad core and perhaps 1080p in 8.1 WP devices ;-)
    18 Jun 2013, 04:12 AM Reply Like
  • Zello Push to Talk app coming to Windows Phone


    "Zello also has Zello Work version for Enterprise users, and its arrival on Windows Phone would be good news for the OS’s enterprise ambitions."
    18 Jun 2013, 11:13 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks for the link. More good news to add to the plus pile. How big will it swell before it pops and up we go ? Soon I believe.


    Long Nokia !
    18 Jun 2013, 11:52 AM Reply Like
  • "...wouldn’t you like quad core and perhaps 1080p..."


    I would like: A browser with a forward button. A file system that works. A calendar that's usable. Orientation lock. Volume profiles. Universal search. Notifications. And...


    ...VPN (sorry). Then, I would return to WP8.
    18 Jun 2013, 06:43 AM Reply Like
  • System


    Have to agree with you here. LOL. MS at it's foot shooting best.
    18 Jun 2013, 07:10 PM Reply Like
  • write like a very spoiled little kid.. maybe give them some time to give you all that you want????


    Its getting there but NOT because you stump your feet...


    Stop complaining...give them some credit for achieving all they did in so little time


    Does your mother still love you? Maybe if you show your mother some love she will ;o)
    18 Jun 2013, 10:43 PM Reply Like
  • Yes, in our field of business, we are all making absolutely unreasonable demands. We care too much about productivity and usability and should focus more on leisure and nerdtastic little tricks. Here's one more essential WP8 shortcoming:


    I would like: To be able to present from my smartphone, just hooking up to the client's or my own wireless projector.


    iPhone can show PDFs, Word, Powerpoint, Excel, and Keynote files - three clicks needed. Now, what do you think about that one? Try that with your Lumia. Well, I think Microsoft, catering to the business user market, should have implemented such basic functionality already in WP7. WP is out since October 2010. I mean, really!
    19 Jun 2013, 03:20 AM Reply Like
  • Well folks, this is a very long thread indeed. May I comment on the AAPs business? Agree with the guy who noted that if your broker or bank does not have an "app" it does not matter because you should be using their website. If they don't have a website, run, screaming, far far away. I note that there is a tendency for apps to insert themselves as third parties into transactions that used to involve only two parties - for example a purchase of some sort, or an airline boarding pass. For a fee to somebody, of course. I am not happy with this tendency, due to the possible complications for business transactions - for this read "mistakes". Billing errors made at the speed of light can take days to fix at the speed of phone calls and letters.
    I have noted that, far and away, most complaints about apps come from young, very bright, tech savvy folks. While they are not representative of the bulk of users, they are VERY influential in forming broad attitudes about software and hardware systems. It is now very clear that Nokia has great respect, as it should, for solid hardware. However, the lurching Steve Balmer and Microsoft are still playing a plodding bad guy to the cool 'bots from android. That may never change. But the apps situation, for those who need them, will improve in windows phone.
    10 Aug 2013, 10:40 AM Reply Like
DJIA (DIA) S&P 500 (SPY)