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Smog-infested Shijiazhuangn in China announces a plan to limit automobile sales of new vehicles...

Smog-infested Shijiazhuangn in China announces a plan to limit automobile sales of new vehicles to 100K this year and only allow households to to own at most two cars in an effort to improve air quality. Automobile analysts think more cities in China could be forced to limit the growth of automobiles due to worsening air pollution. The measures could put the brakes on some of the most ambitious plans of automakers (F, TM, FIATY.PK, HMC, NSANY.OB, VLKAY.PK, DDAIF.PK) for the country.
Comments (17)
  • I have always said the solution to Smog-infested cities is too develop Hydrogen internal combustion engine vehicles and find a way to produce Hydrogen cheaply. The combustion of hydrogen with oxygen produces water as its only product:
    2H2 + O2 → 2H2O

     

    So instead of having a Smog infested city like Shijiazhuangn or LA, they would have fog from all the Hydrogen internal combustion engines.

     

    If anyone will do this it will be the Chinese while we (USA) debate the issue !
    19 Jun 2013, 07:19 AM Reply Like
  • The automakers have hydrogen ICE engines now, and have for decades. Nobody wants them, and nobody knows how to fuel them at the retail consumer level, what with terrorists and all.
    19 Jun 2013, 06:54 PM Reply Like
  • Unless there are more than two drivers in a household, how does simply OWNING more than two cars do anything in particular to increase smog?
    19 Jun 2013, 08:38 AM Reply Like
  • You have to ask if Tesla's sales will be restricted or promoted? An all electric, not a hybrid, car won't pollute fog or smog but the coal generating plant to produce the electricity certainly will pollute. Interesting to watch the Chinese solution.
    19 Jun 2013, 09:01 AM Reply Like
  • Dr.G. I haven't heard anything about it lately, but a year or so ago Nissan had developed a hydrogen vehicle. You could not buy them, but they were going to lease them to customers in the LA area. They had to develop the fueling infrastructure to support them. Don't know if this has happened / worked out yet or not.
    19 Jun 2013, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  • they will have smog and fog,that = frog :)
    19 Jun 2013, 03:34 PM Reply Like
  • Check out KNDI and see if they could not be the answer to the problem.
    19 Jun 2013, 09:52 PM Reply Like
  • To Tdot

     

    Yea I know we have had these hydrogen ICE engines for year, but I see no reason refueling should be an issue, they would be no different then CNG engines which are used by fleets.
    20 Jun 2013, 08:50 AM Reply Like
  • That is the point, Doctor Gee. At present, only commercial fleets and shuttle bus operators can use and refuel with compressed natural gas or cryogenic liquid or compressed gas hydrogen. It is a major hassle to refuel at the commercial level, never mind the consumer level. As a rule, you need a high pressure explosive and hazardous gas handling certificate to even touch the valves at the refueling point.

     

    How is a 15-year old kid on a daytime driving certificate going to handle that level of responsibility, never mind a Terrorist intent on taking out a few dozen infidels at the local Shell station?

     

    To refuel a consumer vehicle with cryogenic liquid or compressed gas hydrogen would probably require professional assistance - rather like the pit-stop crew at the races. Which may not be all that bad - unless it is 3am and you are out of gas and nobody is awake and available at the service station...

     

    Have you seen the size of those hydrogen tanks, and the insulation blankets and fittings and things?
    20 Jun 2013, 10:01 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks for the updated info, I have only worked with Propane refueling. It really becomes a double edge sword, you try and cut emissions with CNG or Hydrogen , but then you need a professional to refuel your vehicle. So what is the real solution? All electric vehicles? which would require more power plants to be built to feed the extra electricity needed and really how well do they perform in northern climates?

     

    Maybe we should go to diesel cars running on Rapeseed vegetable oil like the Dr. Diesel envisioned when he invented that engine? This would require a special kit so you run pure diesel to start and shutdown, but switch to running vegetable oil after it is warmed up by a heater in the 2nd tank.
    21 Jun 2013, 07:41 AM Reply Like
  • But then you are burning carbon again. At least it is, in theory, sort of renewable, if you are growing your fuel. There seem to be enough weeds around, and the Great Plains could grow massive crops of otherwise unwanted weeds, and ordinary ponds could grow vast quantities of seaweeds and such, providing the organic basis for making fuels. I wonder if Hemp makes a good fuel - I hear it has oil in it. They used to grow massive fields of hemp in the MidWest, for rope making in the days of sailing ships and cowboys. Some of those plants, or their progeny, still grow there.

     

    Anyway probably the most efficient and useable and affordable method is a gas-hybrid-electric system, similar to what we have today but pushed further. A well designed hybrid system can double or triple or quadruple the mpg of an ordinary engine, depending on the size of the battery and motor, due to the increased thermal efficiency in recovering the wasted energy from coasting and braking.

     

    A compact diesel engine that runs on "whatever" fuel, and a large storage battery that plugs in and recharges, whenever convenient for extended EV range, properly integrated together for optimal range and fuel consumption, is the probably way to go in the long term for most consumers. Diesel engines tend to be more expensive, but they can be downsized to the minimum required to provide the torque to just keep the car moving if the battery is depleted. Burt Rutan proposed the idea of a small gas turbine or other gas generator for just sustaining the battery level and getting the passengers home.

     

    If home-refueling using the existing natural gas delivery infrastructure ever becomes practical, that may present another optimum configuration for commutes. Propane tanks that can be easily swapped out and connected at service stations on the way sounds great as well.

     

    Any engine or fuel you can think of becomes more thermally efficient if you add electrical storage - as in a hybrid electric system.

     

    That hydrogen stuff though, while attractive for multiple efficiency reasons, is pretty scary due to its extreme volatility: just sounds like anothe Epic Disaster or Batman movie waiting to come out. Hindenberg II ("oh, the humanity!"). Or maybe a Jack Bauer '24' movie.
    21 Jun 2013, 02:41 PM Reply Like
  • This is a glimpse of things to come. People have preached for years that we have to cut back on carbon emissions in the Developed nations or the world is going to go to hell in a hand basket.

     

    Truth is if we eliminated all carbon emissions in the United States in ten years, we will have compound the problems because we will have shifted manufacturing to underdeveloped areas with less efficient processes (powered by people who have to get to work). You simply do not cut carbon emissions by shutting down the most efficient processes (you increase the carbon emissions).

     

    On the other hand you do not (cut) carbon emissions by avoiding more effective processes. I grew up in a section of the country where people drove vehicles powered by natural gas 70 years ago (or longer). Over the years the number of natural gas vehicles as a % has shrunk while we burned the natural gas to atmosphere to get rid of it. Natural Gas is a byproduct of an industry we need for other purposes. It is easier and safer to transport and store than oil and gasoline. We have had vehicles for decades which use it and we have had the infrastructure in many parts of the country to obtain and transport it. We should switch now. Use it to bridge the gap between gas and the next generation (better) vehicles, and conserve oil for those thousands of products and processes where we do not have an obvious alternative at this time (plastics etc.).
    20 Jun 2013, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • Mercedes has in Europe a C-Class model that turns off the engine when you use the brake and restarts immediately when you press the accelerator. It has a 65% decrease in emission.
    21 Jun 2013, 01:27 AM Reply Like
  • Practically everyone now has an available Automatic Engine Stop-Start technology. No need to buy a Mercedes - Ford Fusion has it.

     

    Available Auto Start-Stop:

     

    The Auto Start-Stop could help you improve fuel efficency and reduce emissions

     

    In city driving, the engine automatically shuts off when the vehicle comes to a stop

     

    The engine restarts the instant your foot leaves the brake pedal

     

    Available with 1.6L EcoBoost® engine equipped with automatic transmission

     

    http://ford.to/11sCHkr
    21 Jun 2013, 02:58 PM Reply Like
  • A Mercedes is not a Ford, I am talking luxury cars.
    21 Jun 2013, 05:13 PM Reply Like
  • Yes, we know that Daimler AG does not make Fords.

     

    The article, and the discussion, was about fuel efficiency and smog reduction efforts in general, and specifically in China.

     

    The point is, Automatic Engine Start-Stop (or perhaps Stop-Start) is not limited to Daimler's Mercedes C-class car in Europe. Most large global automakers, including Ford, have comparable technologies, and they are bringing them to China.

     

    Heck, I used to shut off the ignition when coasting down a long hill in neutral, or stopped in heavy traffic, all the time back during the Oil Embargo days, when gasoline was rationed and expensive. Big woop.
    21 Jun 2013, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • To Tdot

     

    I believe that hydrogen and CNG have about the same volatility and the reason why we do not have a hydrogen driven economy is we have not figured out how to produce hydrogen cheaply.

     

    Making fuel from what ever plants and or weeds is also the way to go.

     

    22 Jun 2013, 08:13 AM Reply Like
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