Seeking Alpha

Herbalife (HLF) FQ2 EPS beats by $0.23, revenue beats

  • Herbalife (HLF): FQ2 EPS of $1.41 beats by $0.23.
  • Revenue of $1.22B beats by $62M.
  • Sees FY13 EPS of $4.83 - $4.95 versus Street estimate of $4.80. (PR)
  • Shares +5.6% AH.
Comments (55)
  • Brandond
    , contributor
    Comments (381) | Send Message
     
    But there were lots of articles on SA stating that HLF was a Ponzi scheme. Somebody please write some additional negative articles. Been accumulating lots of shares between $30 and $37 and now holding for the long term as HLF has huge international growth opportunities and a low PE relative to most other pricey stocks. Thanks Bill Ackman for the nice entry point!
    29 Jul 2013, 04:41 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    Ackman is taking it up the tailpipe, LOL. That's what he gets for trying to manipulate the market. Expect a $3 to 5 bump tomorrow. I see $73 Easy for Mr. Icahn
    29 Jul 2013, 04:46 PM Reply Like
  • getreal10000
    , contributor
    Comments (236) | Send Message
     
    You know what they say - pride goes before a fall. :) Grudge matches don't usually work out that well.
    29 Jul 2013, 05:18 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    That's when they are set only on the grudge. But Icahn was smart. He had this entire issue researched first, unlike (h)ackman. Fusion Research busted out his error. And that's why this Icahn is wiping the floor with (h)ackman. And I Love it!!! Everybody is getting what they deserve. Icahn and all the longs for their smarts and due diligence. (h)ackman for his attempted market manipulation, and the shorts for their lack of research.

     

    On a personal note, I hope Ackman loses huge because he wanted to take food out of my kids mouth. He wanted 6000 employees to lose their jobs so they can't feed their kids, they lose their retirement prospects. I despise what he was doing for his personal gain. And that's all it was.... Kill many blue collar people so he could get another home run.... I hope his company takes a big squeeze. I hope his investors pull out and squeeze him hard. And even though the FTC has already looked at Herbalife numerous times, they can look at us again, I don't care cause I know Herbalife will pass easily. But please do it after Ackman has lost his butt. Give this dirtbag a bath in ethics.
    30 Jul 2013, 02:40 AM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    You are so right Herbs4Mike. Ackman could have care less about the 6000+ Herbalife employees, the more than 500 new jobs slated for the new facility in North Carolina, the over 3 million distributors, the millions and millions of satisfied Herbalife customers (which Ackman claims doesn't exist) and the HLF longs like myself who know this is a quality stock and a quality company.

     

    I think it is safe to say that Ackman has lost this fight already. I only hope this is not the end of it. I hope a class action lawsuit is filed against him and I hope the SEC investigates him for market manipulation. In stock market terminology, what Ackman did is called "fermenting" or creating a story (a lie) and then leaking this to the press after you have shorted a position and/or placed a huge put order. It should be illegal, but isn't.

     

    Never fear because Ackman will NOT be here...much longer.
    30 Jul 2013, 06:19 AM Reply Like
  • Brandond
    , contributor
    Comments (381) | Send Message
     
    According to a guy I know on the desk of a large house, rumors of a dutch auction by Icahn continue to circulate, even at these prices. Outcome of Dell would seem to be relevant but who knows, could just be pure speculation.
    29 Jul 2013, 04:57 PM Reply Like
  • J Collins
    , contributor
    Comments (178) | Send Message
     
    HLF seems to be finally getting closer to its intrinsic value. If it was not for Icahn on board, I would be seriously contemplating (in fact still am) on selling all my holdings in HLF at this juncture and taking my profits off the table. And I do feel a part of this bump in price could be attributed to Ackman covering his short position.
    29 Jul 2013, 05:23 PM Reply Like
  • Akmanscam
    , contributor
    Comments (2113) | Send Message
     
    Ackman is a short seller looking for easy money. He picked on Herbalife and made a fight with the wrong company. Herbalife is a mlm company that has already been examined by the FTC. They are not a Ponzi or Pyramid scheme. PERFECTLY LEGAL and ethical. Apparently, Ackman never did his homework and overestimated his own value. He gambled with investors money and has lost his bet. A billion $$$ bet no less.

     

    Well as my grandpa used to say, "Live an learn."
    29 Jul 2013, 05:30 PM Reply Like
  • XTigerX
    , contributor
    Comments (271) | Send Message
     
    It's fascinating to see a grudge match go so completely one sided. I imagine all the publicity made for a few hundred thousands of sales when some folks doing their due diligence got enticed by one of the sales reps or the website.

     

    I'm glad I stayed out of it. I do not "get" retail.
    29 Jul 2013, 05:40 PM Reply Like
  • TheWayItWorks
    , contributor
    Comments (31) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the profits Ackman!
    29 Jul 2013, 05:53 PM Reply Like
  • Akmanscam
    , contributor
    Comments (2113) | Send Message
     
    Yes it is fascinating to see this go so one sided. But why be surprised? Herbalife is a $6 BILLION $$$ company doing business in 88 countries with millions and millions of happy customers. There was no basis to Ackmans theory. Clearly, Ackman was looking for a way to turn his fund which was bleeding red to positive and he temporarily managed to do that. But it blew up in his face as most of us indicated it would

     

    Anyway, Ackman is rearview mirror now. Only news on Ackman will be when the SEC nails him for market manipulation and Herbalife files a suit against him for the the millions of $$$ they had to invest to this frivolous theory of Ackman.

     

    Looking forward to seeing Ackman get nailed and hope he rots in a prison cell.
    29 Jul 2013, 11:55 PM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    Akmanscam writes: ... "Anyway, Ackman is rearview mirror now. Only news on Ackman will be when the SEC nails him for market manipulation and Herbalife files a suit against him for the the millions of $$$ they had to invest to this frivolous theory of Ackman.

     

    Looking forward to seeing Ackman get nailed and hope he rots in a prison cell."
    *******
    Pretty bold statements for those involved in a pyramid scheme.

     

    David Thornton
    30 Jul 2013, 01:33 AM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    @Crime.... Thank you for showing all the new people that you are ignorant concerning Herbalife. That way the new people can save their time by giving your posts the amount of time your posts deserve. If it was a pyramid scheme, Herbalife would have been gone decades ago when Mark Hughes was grilled in front of a congressional hearing for 2 days straight examining Herbalife. The FTC has had their chance with Herbalife, and passed.
    30 Jul 2013, 03:43 AM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    Save your time Herbs4mike. I have been debating this with CrimeBusters for some time now. He is obsessed with his opinion. But you are right, Mark Hughes and Herbalife were grilled back in 1985 by the FTC, the FDA and Attorney Generals across the land. There were Senate Sub Committee hearings in DC and the result as you and I know was that Herbalife was cleared.

     

    On CNBC yesterday they were discussing the topic of a potential FTC hearing and the consenus of opinion was that it would never happen. Why?? It has already happened. FTC doesn't have time to waste on these things. A FTC probe is Ackmans last hope in which case, Ackman is holding on to a hopeless situation. And all the FTC has to do is examine the man behind all this - Ackman. He is no altar boy for sure.
    30 Jul 2013, 06:11 AM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    Crime Busters writes

     

    Pretty bold statements for those involved in a pyramid scheme.

     

    The theory that Herbalife is a "pyramid scheme" is merely a product of Ackmans imagination. You and I have debated on this before. Where or when has anyone proven that Herbalife is a "pyramid" scheme? Oh because Ackman says so? C'mon.

     

    Ackman also said that HLF would be going to 0. Hello? Check the price.

     

    Nuff said. How is your website doing by the way?
    30 Jul 2013, 06:05 AM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    Tony Dee replies: ....." Crime Busters writes
    Pretty bold statements for those involved in a pyramid scheme.

     

    The theory that Herbalife is a "pyramid scheme" is merely a product of Ackmans imagination. You and I have debated on this before.

     

    Where or when has anyone proven that Herbalife is a "pyramid" scheme? Oh because Ackman says so? C'mon.

     

    Ackman also said that HLF would be going to 0. Hello? Check the price.

     

    Nuff said. How is your website doing by the way?
    ******
    First - That Herbalife is a pyramid as I and many others have informed you several times, was a conclusion we formed many years before Ackman arrived on the scene”: A fact, Tony, you conveniently ignore and distort in typical MLM fashion. Ackman years later, having discovered, or have been told of the Herbalife pyramid scheme conducted the expensive and time consuming investigation compiling facts proving Herbalife is a pyramid scheme.

     

    Secondly – Your statement again in typical MLM fashion ignoring the facts….. “…If it was a pyramid scheme, Herbalife would have been gone decades ago,” does not square with the facts…. Simply because the FTC & SEC has treated Herbalife for the last 32 years in the same manner as Madoff’s scheme is certainly is no proof that Herbalife is not a pyramid scheme. In fact, their admitted incompetence and myriad excuses merely bolster the opposing argument.

     

    Another fact also continually ignored and “twisted” by typical MLM rhetoric: ….Madoff was also "grilled" by the SEC several times in his FORTY year Ponzi scheme: A scheme far more transparent and not only more easily seen and understood, but far easier to explain than the obfuscated Herbalife scam.

     

    Thirdly, Ackman did say…. “HLF would go to “0”: He did not say when! Again, it is typical that pyramid schemes grow exponentially, and like exploding stars, reach “critical mass”… they are the biggest and the brightest, just before disintegration.: Such is Herbalife - “Star of the Stock Market.” Those are facts not twisted hype.

     

    Fourthy - We did not succeed in putting the perpetrator of TTI-BIM behind bars by quitting after a few months while his scam was growing exponentially with all the characteristics of "success." It took from 2003 until he was arrested in 2011 to end his 15 year pyramid scheme that incidentally, was also looked into by authorities.

     

    David Thornton
    30 Jul 2013, 08:55 AM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    Once again CrimeBusters, I ask you when was it PROVEN that Herbalife is a pyramid? What because you say so. ENT! AND I never heard of you until you started posting here. So what is it with this crap you informed me "years ago"??

     

    Herbalife has no inventory requirement. Distributors have the ability to pass over other reps who started ahead of them. If this were a pyramid, how would this be possible? It can't. And for Ackmans theory that this is a pyramid about to collapse, how do you explain the growth here in the USA with an additional 80,000 new distributors being enrolled in the last quarter here in the USA Herbalife's oldest member country?? HELLO??

     

    The SEC has not been investigating Herbalife for the last 32 years? Herbalife became a public company in 2003 listed under the NYSE. They were previously listed under the NASDAQ until Mark Hughes took the company private circa 2000.

     

    The FTC investigated Herbalife back in 1985. That wasn't 32 years ago either, but 28 years ago. You seem to be confused with dates, times, and information. And by the way, the FTC cleared Herbalife after yes grilling them.

     

    And please don't confuse Herbalife with Madoff. You have no idea how ridiculous you sound when you do that.

     

    You can continue with your argument. I am done. I have explained it so that even a 6 year old could understand it. If you don't, well, that is the way it goes.

     

    In closing I again ask you to tell me when or where Herbalife was ever proven to be a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. What, because a self centered, egotistical, greedy, money hungry hedge fund short seller says it? I think you need better information.

     

    Do you really think that the FTC along with Attorney Generals across the land as well as the senate sub committee missed something that your hero Ackman or you know? C'mon.

     

    Sorry I didn't bother going to your website. I have no time for people who say that all MLMs are pyramid schemes. Leave it for however many people you have who believe in that crap.
    31 Jul 2013, 01:31 AM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    Tony Dee: Tony Dee replies: ....."Nuff said. How is your website doing by the way?
    ++++++
    Sorry Tony. overlooked that. Thanks for asking. It is sill up at http://bit.ly/142rf0i

     

    David Thornton
    30 Jul 2013, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    David, either make a case for calling Herbalife a pyramid or remove the statement "All MLM is Fraud" from your website. Your emotional attachment to unraveling the scam industry seems to have distorted your thinking and you will lose your credibility if you persist in making unwarranted pejorative statements about legitimate operations. Let's try to be a little more honorable here.
    30 Jul 2013, 01:15 PM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    No thank you. I'll leave going to your website for people who still read comic books.
    31 Jul 2013, 01:34 AM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    Can't you see jmj858 that he is merely trying to promote his website? Let him go. The more he talks, the deeper he digs himself. No intelligent person is going to waste time with him. Besides, he likes the attention he gets. Makes him feel important.
    31 Jul 2013, 01:36 AM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    If he promoted outside products instead of just his business, I would not respond to him. And as I indicated to him, if he focused on Ponzi schemes instead of industries he clearly knows nothing about like MLMs, he would be providing a legitimate public service.
    31 Jul 2013, 10:08 AM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    A lot of these so called "service" websites start off by implying that they are working for the little guy and trying to save them from these tyrants in MLM who run "Ponzi" and "pyramid" schemes. BUT...If you go to their websites, they are actually peddling another income opportunity and in many cases another MLM deal which they propose is different. Not saying that Crime is doing this, I didn't even waste my time going to his website.

     

    Everyone by now should know that Herbalife is not doing anything illegal and the FTC has already investigated herbalife twice since the 1990s and orginally in 1985 and found no wrong doing. The pyramid myth is a figment of Ackman's imagination.

     

    Ackman also said herbalife stock was going to zero. Need I say more
    7 Aug 2013, 03:49 PM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    “herbs4mike: “If it was a pyramid scheme, Herbalife would have been gone decades ago when Mark Hughes was grilled in front of a congressional hearing for 2 days straight examining Herbalife. The FTC has had their chance with Herbalife, and passed….”
    *******
    All I can do is reiterate what I wrote to Tony…. “Simply because the FTC & SEC has treated Herbalife for the last 32 years in the same manner as Madoff’s scheme is certainly is no proof that Herbalife is not a pyramid scheme. In fact, their admitted incompetence and myriad excuses merely bolster the opposing argument.

     

    Another fact also continually ignored and “twisted” by typical MLM rhetoric: ….Madoff was also "grilled" by the SEC several times in his FORTY year Ponzi scheme: A scheme far more transparent and not only more easily seen and understood, but far easier to explain than the obfuscated Herbalife scam.”

     

    David Thornton
    30 Jul 2013, 11:23 AM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    “jmj858”.... "David, either make a case for calling Herbalife a pyramid or remove the statement "All MLM is Fraud" from your website. Your emotional attachment to unraveling the scam industry seems to have distorted your thinking and you will lose your credibility if you persist in making unwarranted pejorative statements about legitimate operations. Let's try to be a little more honorable here."
    *******
    I am telling you this John; I have never seen an MLM scheme based on “up-lines”-“down-lines” “unlimited income” claims that was not riddled with fraud. Fraud is illegal: It matters not how it is masked! And of course the failure rate in MLM, now admitted by the MLM Industry itself, of over 98% only ads to that conviction.

     

    That is what I define as a pyramid scheme; not a corporate structure with an owner, president, vice president, managers, forepersons, and bottom line workers as many MLM participants like to define pyramid structures.

     

    And what MLM organizations do you know of John, that do not use "up-lines”-“down-lines” and “unlimited income” claims? It is the very essence of MLM.

     

    David Thornton
    30 Jul 2013, 10:02 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    If this is all you have then you really have no case. I would suggest you focus on Ponzi schemes because you really have no understanding of the MLM industry.
    31 Jul 2013, 10:01 AM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    “jmj858” writes: If this is all you have then you really have no case. I would suggest you focus on Ponzi schemes because you really have no understanding of the MLM industry.
    ******
    Really, “no understanding of the MLM Industry.”

     

    Of course that's your opinion, John: But have you ever stood before a Judge of the Superior Court to have your arguments tested in a 10 million dollar lawsuit (S.L.A.P.P.) brought against you by a 24 lawyer prestigious law firm touted as one of the most competent in the MLM & Network Marketing “Industry” and walked away with an 18 page precedent setting decision based on your arguments and evidence that the operation was a pyramid scheme that everyone, including government lawyers & personnel, law enforcement, private sector lawyers, (even amiable ones) and all the “distributors” and supporters, not even financially involved in the company, ridiculed and told you… “You don’t know what you’re talking about and you have no case?”…. The scammer operating for 15 years, five years subsequent to his lawsuit against you, arrested and on trial.

     

    If you haven’t read the decision which three years later was finally published by CBC National TV, I invite you to check the link. That is a real court case: That is a real decision based on essentially the same arguments I am using to challenge Herbalife’s legality.

     

    http://bit.ly/Y79Azo

     

    And have you ever provided authorities and the general public with evidence in a Ponzi scheme John, that police authorities ridiculed, laughed at, even going so far as to appear on national television rebuking your finding by claiming they could “find nothing criminal in the scheme,” and the other national news media adamantly espousing…. “This is clearly legal in Canada?” And predicting within 13 days when this scam would collapse into bankruptcy; which it did, while authorities had no choice but to later admit the scheme was what you told them it was; a Ponzi scheme, based on fraudulent misrepresentation? Ever experienced anything similar, John?

     

    Myriad professionally trained fraud prevention officers, government lawyers, government consumer protection agency personnel etc, couldn’t, or wouldn’t recognize these frauds for what they were, except through “hindsight” AFTER the scheme collapsed as I had predicted it would. I was right; but as I say, they couldn't recognize or wouldn't acknowledge the evidence.

     

    And here we are again. I’ve never been proved wrong in any of my attacks against pyramid/Ponzi schemes and I am getting the same arguments from you and the other supporters of Herbalife.

     

    Either John, you fail to comprehend fraud or you close your eyes condoning it. I think the former, at least in your case, because I gather from some of your posts that when you do recognize fraud you are vehemently opposed to it.

     

    Now, consider this: All the authorities, distributors, bankers, financial advisors etc, were wrong in both the pyramid scheme and the Ponzi scheme I attacked. I was right. So my question to you John is…. Do you believe you are not only smarter than all the authorities, distributors, bankers, financial advisers etc, who got it wrong…. but also smarter than the person who got it right and proved the professionals wrong?

     

    David Thornton
    31 Jul 2013, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    I asked you to make a case for calling Herbalife a pyramid. Instead of specifically showing how Herbalife is an illegal pyramid, you referred to an unrelated case in another country.
    
    The court case you sited was only a defamation suit against you and did not rule on the legality of the business operations. As a result of a lawsuit brought by the proper Canadian authorities, the business was determined to be an illegal operation and shut down.

     

    Short of investigating the operations of this Canadian business, I have no way of knowing whether the operations were comparable to Herbalife's. A Kia has 4 wheels and an engine but is it comparable to a Mercedes?

     

    Herbalife is probably the most investigated and scrutinized business in the world. I have confidence in our regulatory agencies and firmly believe they are doing their best to protect us from predatory practices. Let them do their job.
    31 Jul 2013, 10:38 PM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    "jmj858".... I asked you to make a case for calling Herbalife a pyramid. Instead of specifically showing how Herbalife is an illegal pyramid, you referred to an unrelated case in another country.

     

    The court case you sited was only a defamation suit against you and did not rule on the legality of the business operations. As a result of a lawsuit brought by the proper Canadian authorities, the business was determined to be an illegal operation and shut down.

     

    Short of investigating the operations of this Canadian business, I have no way of knowing whether the operations were comparable to Herbalife's. A Kia has 4 wheels and an engine but is it comparable to a Mercedes?

     

    Herbalife is probably the most investigated and scrutinized business in the world. I have confidence in our regulatory agencies and firmly believe they are doing their best to protect us from predatory practices. Let them do their job.
    *******
    “The court case you sited was only a defamation suit against you and did not rule on the legality of the business operations.”

     

    What!!! Perhaps you didn't bother to read, or again unable to comprehend the quote of section 206 (1)(e) of the Criminal Code or 55.1 of the Competition Act or bothered to read or unable to understand the last paragraph….

     

    The case is made out. Herbalife is a “cookie cutter copy” riddled with fraudulent misrepresentation: Something you don’t seem to appreciate John, is a crime.

     

    Last paragraph....“By corollary, it will be open to the plaintiffs to bring another injunction application before trial, but only in the event that they are prepared to adduce probative evidence at such time that would call into doubt the prima facie case of illegality that the respondent Thornton has successfully made out.”

     

    What part of “prima facie case of illegality” John, do you not comprehend?

     

    I went through years arguing your same old tired arguments and nonsense with respect to TTI&BIM on the Net. Look it up. There are literally thousands of postings arguing the matter. The Judge ruled I established at least a prima facie case, a far higher bar than “Reasonable Probable Cause” necessary to arrest. So, again… “What part of “prima facie case of illegality” John, do you not comprehend?

     

    Then you wrote… “I have no way of knowing whether the operations were comparable to Herbalife's.” But you preface that with “Short of investigating the operations of this Canadian business.”

     

    So, by your own admission, of course you do. It’s called due diligence if you want to expend the time and effort to dig up the info on the Net and research court documents and compare them as I have. And that is why I conclude, Hebalife is a pyramid scheme.

     

    And then John, you write this….“I have confidence in our regulatory agencies and firmly believe they are doing their best to protect us from predatory practices. Let them do their job.”

     

    The same tired argument and “advice” I heard for nearly a decade while Canadian authorities did precisely what U.S. authorities did about Madoff: Investigate and do nothing until schemes collapsed. Your statement is so far from reality and absolutely contrary to already established and proven facts as to render it laughable.

     

    John, admit it: If you were totally honest you would acknowledge truthfully, that what you really have confidence in and what will preserve Herbalife’s scam until it implodes on its own….. is that the regulatory agencies, will in fact, NOT do their job.

     

    David Thornton
    2 Aug 2013, 08:40 AM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    CBN: "What part of “prima facie case of illegality” John, do you not comprehend?"

     

    Wikipedia defines prima facie as: on its first encounter, first blush, or at first sight. Most legal proceedings require a prima facie case to exist, following which proceedings may then commence to test it, and create a ruling.

     

    I stand by my comment: "The court case you sited was only a defamation suit against you and did not rule on the legality of the business operations."

     

    Everything else in your post has been refuted by myself and others on this site.

     

    David, I'm sorry if I came across as belittllng of your accomplishments in fighting crime...that was not my intention. But you tend to provide misleading information and unsupportable statements in your efforts to defend your positions. But I wish you well in your fight against actual illegal operations.

     

    John
    2 Aug 2013, 09:58 AM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    Agree with JMJ 100%. Routine fabrication similar to a lawyer in a courtroom with the end justifying the means mentality controlling the mouth.
    3 Aug 2013, 02:41 PM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    John, you are still refusing to acknowledge the obvious. The judge actually used the word...illegality. You MLM proponents twist and ignore anything. I am sorry to be so direct but it IS blatantly obvious. You guys would argue and you do, (sometimes deliberately, other times because you're confused, that "black is white and white's no colour at all."

     

    And you and others on the site, as you point out, spouting the same mantra means nothing. It’s what the Judge ruled.

     

    Now, you can argue the ruling may have been incorrect as we argue the 1979 ruling in Amway was incorrect, but don't deny the obvious. The judge stated clearly "….the prima facie case of ILLEGALITY that the respondent Thornton has successfully made out.”

     

    There he was clearly ruling on the "business" not ruling on liable.

     

    The judge dealt directly with the legality or illegality, if you wish, of the company and ruled on it, which was MY case, The liable accusation was the plaintiff's case. I did not simply defend against their liable case; I introduced and received a ruling on the legality of the business. And of course the authorities five years later finally arrested the creator of the scheme along with 12 others; one a teacher and one a banker charging them with operating a pyramid scheme.

     

    Again, it is amazing the Canadian media are not all over this exposing the number of RCMP, politicians, lawyers, government personnel etc, engaged in perpetrating the scam: 100,000,000, according to the statement his lawyer made in court: In perspective, 1/3 of the 300,000 world-wide “distributors” now recognized by Herbalife.

     

    Now, can YOU hazard a guess why the media are not all over this incredible story and why authorities refuse to move against this litany of high up perpetrators?

     

    David Thornton
    6 Aug 2013, 10:41 AM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    CBN: "Now, can YOU hazard a guess why the media are not all over this incredible story and why authorities refuse to move against this litany of high up perpetrators?"

     

    The media is not all over this because they rely upon the professionalism and expertise of our hired authorities. The authorities have investigated and found no illegalities.
    6 Aug 2013, 10:55 AM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    If any of what he says is true, Herbalife would have been shut down a long time ago. I suggest you stop rebutting him as I have. Then perhaps he will go away. Note that Forbes and other reliable publications have articles indicating the same things I have said. Let this guy live in his fantasy world and worship at the altar of the Almighty Ackman who is only good at spreading lies and losing money.
    7 Aug 2013, 03:54 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    Why do you want him to go away? I think he's the best thing going for our position. The fact that he's so easy to rebut shows how weak the opposition is. All anyone else from his side has done is throw in a snide remark here and there then go away. They don't have the facts or the conviction to stick around. At least David has some conviction.
    7 Aug 2013, 07:41 PM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    Well if you have nothing better to do than chat with him, go for it. In fact I would suggest that you befriend him, find out where he lives, go out with him. He might be a nice guy and fun to be with. If you fish, go fishing with him. Then you two can chat all you want. Knock yourself out.
    8 Aug 2013, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    Well if you have nothing better to do than to respond to me for responding to him, then knock yourself out. But of course here I am responding to you for responding to me for responding to him. I just hope you don't respond to me for responding to you for responding to me for responding to him because then I'm faced with the decision of whether to respond to you for responding to me for responding to you for responding to me for responding to him. I gotta get a life...
    8 Aug 2013, 09:26 PM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    j,j858 wrote

     

    Well if you have nothing better to do than to respond to me for responding to him, then knock yourself out. But of course here I am responding to you for responding to me for responding to him. I just hope you don't respond to me for responding to you for responding to me for responding to him because then I'm faced with the decision of whether to respond to you for responding to me for responding to you for responding to me for responding to him. I gotta get a life...

     

    Sounds like he has already accomplished his goal which is why I avoid him.
    9 Aug 2013, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    I agree with you Tony, but jmj has a point. Crime's argument helps us more than it hurts. But I totally agree with you that Crime is a total and complete waste of time to rebut. So let jmj help us out. He writing to crime so crime can give us some comedy. I just want you to know though, I warn people like you tried to warn jmj also. Lastly, I think it's hilarious that crime writes these books that must take at least 2 hours to type up..... You know he must have a really busy schedule.
    9 Aug 2013, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    I think you both take this forum way too seriously. 90% of readers are predisposed before reading any of our comments. And do you actually think the remaining 10% have any affect on the market in any meaningful way?

     

    I contribute because I enjoy putting my thoughts out there. I read the comments primarily to be exposed to different points of view. But it's also just a good break from work. And with a guy like David, a little comedy relief.

     

    So I say we continue expressing our views but without taking ourselves too seriously.

     

    9 Aug 2013, 09:31 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    When you have money invested, it becomes serious. And in this case it is even more important. Because public opinion can sway a congressman or government body. And I have a billionaire trying to destroy my ability to feed my remaining 3 kids.

     

    With almost 20 years as a distributor, without any higher education, and at 50 years of age, Herbalife is my only occupation I know. So yes, I should be a little serious about this subject matter.
    10 Aug 2013, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    For the record, I have never said or implied that the subject matter is not serious. In fact, the reason for my involvement was my concern for the people, like yourself, who benefit from Herbalife's existence.
    10 Aug 2013, 01:12 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    Right.... Maybe you ought to read you post again...... it says something about being too serious on this forum..... What would you say that implies jmj?
    11 Aug 2013, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    The issue was whether or not to respond to David Thornton. It was not whether you and Tony are too serious with respect to the subject matter on this forum. If you spent less time in the weight room and a little more time exercising your mind, we wouldn't be having this conflict imho.
    11 Aug 2013, 02:25 PM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    I applaud you for your efforts with Herbalife and turning it into a full time occupation. As a HLF long, you have no idea how much I appreciate you and the other Herbalife reps who are primarily responsible for the incredible success of Herbalife stock.

     

    I have looked at Herbalife's past and it is pretty obvious that they have weathered a lot of storms and come out way ahead. They have taken on the FDA, the FTC, Attorney Generals, had Senate Sub Committee hearings, lost top distributors going back to the 1980s and of course this year as well. Lost their beloved founder Mark Hughes and faced the nonsense from self serving, greedy, ego driven clowns like Ackman. They have face it all and won.

     

    SO what I say to you Herbs4mike is yes, be passionate, but use it were it will do you the most good---in the field. Go out and turn that passion on when retailing the products and recruiting new distributors.

     

    Don't waste your time arguing with the clowns on this thread. They thrive on it. The best way to handle them is as I have:
    "Silence is the best response to a fool"
    http://bit.ly/13fLmcz

     

    It is sort of like wrestling with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it.

     

    Wish you continued success with Herbalife my friend and rest easy, Herbalife is in good hands and we have nothing to fear from prograstinators on message boards or egotistical, maniacal hedge fund short sellers who clearly don't know what they are talking about.
    14 Aug 2013, 03:28 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    Well if you have nothing better to do than chat with him, go for it. In fact I would suggest that you befriend him, find out where he lives, go out with him. He might be a nice guy and fun to be with. If you fish, go fishing with him. Then you two can chat all you want. Knock yourself out.

     

    But I've also heard that if it gets physical, it is sort of like wrestling with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it.
    14 Aug 2013, 05:39 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    LOL.... wrestling with a pig...... I like that. I'll have to use that in some of my presentations.

     

    As for Herbalife, yes, it's me 100%. I love helping people. I got 3 new customers, all brothers, all weigh over 150 KG... EACH! They are huge cause they aren't that tall. They bought $1000USD worth of products. Because they want to stay on it for at least three months. I made them a "Member" or it's still called a "Distributor" here in Malaysia.because they will be my repeat customer. I didn't really make that much money on the sale cause they bought at the biggest discount 42% (so I only make 8%). But they are definitely end users. They need to be before they all die (Seriously) of heart attacks. When they lose weight..... wow, everybody knows these 3 guys..... And they will be with Herbalife forever. They will appreciate Herbalife. Cause this will definitely save their lives. In fact, they have no quality of life now.... So I can't wait. This will be my 3rd serious organization I hope. Then I'll EARN the President's team, and all the rewards that go with it.
    16 Aug 2013, 01:43 AM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    @jmj.... It seems your post says "forum way too seriously", not Dave..... Even a gym rat can read that. Can't you read it?
    12 Aug 2013, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    Context my friend.
    12 Aug 2013, 06:26 PM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    "Silence is the best response to a fool"

     

    http://bit.ly/13fLmcz
    12 Aug 2013, 08:37 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    that's why you haven't seen me write back......
    14 Aug 2013, 03:02 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (95) | Send Message
     
    Mike may not be that bright but I don't think he's a fool. A fool is more like a person who relies on an overused slogan to make a point because of a weakness in expressing his own thoughts.
    13 Aug 2013, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    John Maxwell wrote an excellent book entitled, "Everyone Communicates, Few Connect.: I would like to paraphrase that by saying that "Everyone talks, few communicate, even fewer connect and most just make a lot of noise!" And my words are not directed to Mike who obviously took my last post to heart and is putting his passion where it counts to but to that one other guy with multiple aliases who sometimes even argues with himself. LOL!!!!!!! :-)
    16 Aug 2013, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2085) | Send Message
     
    We have a schizo in the house!!! LOL
    17 Aug 2013, 02:30 PM Reply Like
  • Tony Dee
    , contributor
    Comments (637) | Send Message
     
    Yeah Mike. And I bet he talks to himself too assuming his multiple IDs. LOL
    18 Aug 2013, 02:42 PM Reply Like
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