Seeking Alpha

Ackman has new questions for Herbalife

  • Bill Ackman is out with a press release ahead of Herbalife's (HLF +7.7%) conference call.
  • According to CNBC's Scott Wapner, Ackman claims the company's headline numbers obscure relatively lackluster operating income growth of 3% (see page 5 of the 10Q).
  • Ackman is also questioning why Pricewaterhouse did not review the quarterly filing (NT-10Q).
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Comments (28)
  • MedTechBio
    , contributor
    Comments (1490) | Send Message
     
    That guy is a dimwit
    30 Jul 2013, 10:00 AM Reply Like
  • Dan Naumov
    , contributor
    Comments (356) | Send Message
     
    Since Ackman is short, the bumped HLF dividend is going to be coming directly out of his pocket. Poor fella...
    30 Jul 2013, 10:01 AM Reply Like
  • Akmanscam
    , contributor
    Comments (2113) | Send Message
     
    As the saying goes, "When a man with money meets a man with experience, pretty soon the man with the experience will have money and the man with the money will have an experience."

     

    Looks like Carl Ichan got a lot of money at Ackmans expence. And Ackman ended up with an experience.
    30 Jul 2013, 05:02 PM Reply Like
  • Yteeld
    , contributor
    Comments (1149) | Send Message
     
    Desperate people say and do desperate things. In this economy any growth at all is good, the bottom line is enhanced through expense containment and reduction. No one needs a Harvard Degree to figure that out.
    30 Jul 2013, 10:22 AM Reply Like
  • G. Hudson
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    I question the sanity of anyone who would go long JC Penney and short Herbalife (LOL)
    30 Jul 2013, 10:24 AM Reply Like
  • Sammy Lee
    , contributor
    Comments (314) | Send Message
     
    If you read the logic that went into the long and short, they were pretty substantial and compelling. But you can make the best and most rational case for something and still come out wrong.
    30 Jul 2013, 11:31 AM Reply Like
  • Mike Andrewes
    , contributor
    Comments (75) | Send Message
     
    G. Hudson- I have to agree with you. There's a difference between thinking outside the box and making such odd investing choices that you might end up living in a box.

     

    Not that Ackman would.. but a non-billionaire that made this same long/short investing choice. LOL..
    30 Jul 2013, 11:59 AM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (101) | Send Message
     
    The logic behind shorting HLF was compelling? And you consider yourself a 'student of economics and finance'?
    30 Jul 2013, 12:05 PM Reply Like
  • losbronces
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    Remember he was asking people to join him at $34 in shorting HLF. It hasn't quite doubled yet.

     

    The bicycling story offers real insight into Ackman: http://vnty.fr/YcBK9x
    30 Jul 2013, 12:58 PM Reply Like
  • jmj858
    , contributor
    Comments (101) | Send Message
     
    As one fellow rider noted, “I’ve never had an experience where someone has gone from being so aggressive on a bike to being so hopelessly unable to even turn the pedals…. His mind wrote a check that his body couldn’t cash.”

     

    With his HLF short position, looks like deja vu all over again.
    30 Jul 2013, 03:09 PM Reply Like
  • ConservativeOutperformer
    , contributor
    Comments (618) | Send Message
     
    Obviously the guy has had some success somewhere (he is a billionaire), but investment careers are built over a lifetime. Any idiot can get lucky on a few bets.

     

    How anyone defends this guy and his atrocious stock picks is really beyond comprehension. After reading the link from losbronces, none of it should surprise anyone. As Chapman noted, 'he’s just pompous and arrogant and seems to have been born without the gene that perceives and measures risk'. Risk avoidance is the key to any investment and going long JCP short HLF is just hilarious from a risk standpoint..... The article, and quote, just confirm the hilarity of it all.

     

    The most obvious display of his inferiority was out there for the entire world to see when he was quizzed on the KFT acquisition of Cadbury. Just prior to a Warren Buffett interview, he was asked to give his opinion on the situation. Once he was done Warren came in and set the record straight. It was pure amateur hour and Ackman had no idea how foolish he looked.....

     

    At the end of the day he'll still be rich. But that doesn't mean after 40 years anyone will be calling him one of the best investors of our time. It shouldn't surprise anyone if the whole thing went down in flames at some point...........

     

    Good luck!
    30 Jul 2013, 03:24 PM Reply Like
  • optionsexpert
    , contributor
    Comments (297) | Send Message
     
    You don't know Ackman so please don't talk about things you know nothing about.
    30 Jul 2013, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • User 6461431
    , contributor
    Comments (851) | Send Message
     
    And Ackman doesn't know Herbalife or JC Penny, so why is he getting so deep into these companies that he knows nothing about?

     

    Several months ago, Ackman went on stage to talk about his investments with JCP and the mistakes he made. He opened his comments with a comment about how wonderful JCP was and he noted that he was wearing socks from JCP (while wearing a +$1000 designer suit). If he truly knew JCP and wanted to help "endorse" the company, why did he not wear a suit, shirt and tie from JCP. But alas, he thought he knew what the JCP clients wanted and messed with their model without understanding what the JCP customers wanted and it backfired.
    30 Jul 2013, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • ConservativeOutperformer
    , contributor
    Comments (618) | Send Message
     
    What does knowing Bill Ackman have anything to do with how ridiculous some of his investment decisions are? Or how pathetic that bike riding story is? I don't know Warren Buffett, but buying GEICO was a genius move. Treating people with respect and dignity is a trait anyone can admire. I don't know anyone from this website, but I can point to people making sound investment decisions with a clear understanding of the risks involved. It's called analyzing some facts, using a little critical thinking and being objective....... I don't know why people are so upset over the fact that this guy is just a huge loser, lol.

     

    The mere fact that someone would go on TV and humiliate himself over something no one will care about a year from now says a lot. Get a hobby....... What's even worse is he humiliated himself before even going on TV by throwing millions and millions of dollars down the drain in JCP with investment logic resembling that of a 6 year old.

     

    He should play golf. It would teach him to accept failure (because everyone, every single time, fails) and work to improve on his mistakes. Just because someone is rich and 'famous' doesn't make them some shining light the world should be looking to for guidance.

     

    Anyways..........
    30 Jul 2013, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • Yteeld
    , contributor
    Comments (1149) | Send Message
     
    If knowing someone is so important to you, why was it not important to Ackman? Because if it was, he would have took the time to know the CEO of HLF. This guy is known as a tiger who will not give up easy, if at all. Secondly, your boy Ackman should have known taking on Uncle Carl on national television was a mistake, but he proceeded to wake the sleeping bear. So it appears to me that you yourself do not know much either and I do not know you but feel very comfortable making this public.
    31 Jul 2013, 06:57 AM Reply Like
  • optionsexpert
    , contributor
    Comments (297) | Send Message
     
    What is ridiculous is you bashing someone you don't know. Go read Forbes articles and think you know someone.... rofl.
    1 Aug 2013, 03:14 PM Reply Like
  • optionsexpert
    , contributor
    Comments (297) | Send Message
     
    Nevermind the 6-12 months of research he did on HLF before he took his position. More HLF fanboy unfounded bashing.
    1 Aug 2013, 03:19 PM Reply Like
  • optionsexpert
    , contributor
    Comments (297) | Send Message
     
    AND who cares about the bike story? Seriously? NO ONE. So he couldn't ride a bike for 30 miles on his first try. BIG DEAL. No one cares.
    1 Aug 2013, 03:20 PM Reply Like
  • Yteeld
    , contributor
    Comments (1149) | Send Message
     
    I do not read Forbes, but thanks for the information. Your sensitivity to my response is telling. If the Ackman you are defending took the time as you say to know people, his approach to the JCPenney customer would have been much different. So, to call me out for not knowing him, you should also call him out for not knowing his customer base.
    1 Aug 2013, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • losbronces
    , contributor
    Comments (799) | Send Message
     
    If its no big deal and no one cares, then no need to respond. You completely miss the point of the story anyway. I see it as an insight into a behavior that he is repeating.
    1 Aug 2013, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • DoowopDave
    , contributor
    Comments (252) | Send Message
     
    Bill: May the force be with you, but at this point, even that may not be enough. Better check your pockets as I think Carl has his hand in your wallet.
    30 Jul 2013, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • Jim Warlick
    , contributor
    Comments (7) | Send Message
     
    "Many people get married to their ideas all the way to the grave. Beliefs are said to be path dependent if the sequence of ideas is such that the first one dominates."
    -Nassim Taleb
    30 Jul 2013, 11:59 AM Reply Like
  • optionsexpert
    , contributor
    Comments (297) | Send Message
     
    Yeah like the belief that HLF is a legitimate non-scamming company. Their products are garbage.
    30 Jul 2013, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • Yteeld
    , contributor
    Comments (1149) | Send Message
     
    If so, they do not buy their products. No one is forcing you to buy. It's pretty simple, but some people may enjoy or benefit from these products and that is their right. Why should you, Ackman or anyone else feel that you can impose your beliefs on others?
    30 Jul 2013, 04:08 PM Reply Like
  • Akmanscam
    , contributor
    Comments (2113) | Send Message
     
    Yes Yteeld. I enjoy their products and in fact I am enjoying a delicious Cookies & Crème Formula 1 Healthy Meal shake right now. Ummmmmmmmm. Delicious.
    30 Jul 2013, 05:08 PM Reply Like
  • Akmanscam
    , contributor
    Comments (2113) | Send Message
     
    Ackman was extremely wreckless with this bet against Herbalife. He obviously did not do his homework and overestimated his own worth. Remember Ackman saying, "Herbalife has never had someone like me going after them."

     

    That is true. As far as I know, no one who has bashed Herbalife in the past has ever been so blatantly dishonest and outright lied like Ackman did. And he thought he was going to get away with it.

     

    Carl Icahn whipped Ackman like a father whips his disobedient child.
    30 Jul 2013, 05:08 PM Reply Like
  • optionsexpert
    , contributor
    Comments (297) | Send Message
     
    Icahn is a joke. If you listened to his interview with Ackman on the call you would realize what an idiot the guy is. An 80 year old who acts like a high school kid calling people names. He's a joke.
    1 Aug 2013, 03:21 PM Reply Like
  • Akmanscam
    , contributor
    Comments (2113) | Send Message
     
    All Icahn did on that call was tell the truth.
    30 Dec 2013, 03:48 AM Reply Like
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