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BlackBerry EPS in-line, misses on revenues

  • BlackBerry (BBRY): Q2 EPS of -$0.47 in-line.
  • Revenue of $1.6B misses by $0.33B, but matches revised guidance. Shares -1.3% premarket. (PR)
Comments (56)
  • Skylander2011
    , contributor
    Comments (439) | Send Message
     
    wow...
    27 Sep 2013, 07:08 AM Reply Like
  • Crispin_in_Waterloo
    , contributor
    Comments (869) | Send Message
     
    In line with expectations or in line with the announcement last week?
    Link?
    27 Sep 2013, 07:10 AM Reply Like
  • Andreas Hopf
    , contributor
    Comments (7396) | Send Message
     
    Terrible. Revenue halved between June and August, while COGS and OPEX remained at current levels. The final implosion must be near...
    27 Sep 2013, 07:14 AM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (1916) | Send Message
     
    And to think, not even 2 months ago, someone said to me: Blackberry has much better chances than Nokia, which is posting losses year after year. At least Blackberry is a cash cow, adding cash every quarter.
    It was pretty obvious to me (but not to that person) where this was going. Poor Blackberry... no one cares about its OS.
    27 Sep 2013, 07:19 AM Reply Like
  • JayXu
    , contributor
    Comments (254) | Send Message
     
    Yea, I saw comments like that too many times.
    Funny
    27 Sep 2013, 08:11 AM Reply Like
  • Stock Market Mike
    , contributor
    Comments (1752) | Send Message
     
    I grew suspicious that they were clearing channel inventory to grow cash.

     

    Didn't play them this time around, but last time I bought puts on the day before earnings because of their guidance (for a loss) while analysts were guiding insanely bullishly. ($1+ in EPS! 10m devices sold! Etc.)

     

    Not sure if they'll go bankrupt or not. Slashing as many employees as they did, they don't need many phone sales to be profitable. But if they stop manufacturing them... hmm... it's over.
    27 Sep 2013, 10:28 AM Reply Like
  • Scal80
    , contributor
    Comments (40) | Send Message
     
    Nothing new from pre-released info at least.
    27 Sep 2013, 07:24 AM Reply Like
  • sfinvestor
    , contributor
    Comments (847) | Send Message
     
    read my post further down. There is plenty in there, just use some god-given braincells.
    27 Sep 2013, 01:26 PM Reply Like
  • alext1379
    , contributor
    Comments (697) | Send Message
     
    So if BB hadn't overproduced handsets, they would have beat expectations? Carry the loss forward and save it for a rainy day.

     

    Nokia handsets is nolonger around. Even at these rates, it would be over a year before BB ran out of money.

     

    If Rev is half yet earnings is the same and most units shipped were BB7, what does that tell us? BB10 devices are too expensive for the emerging world and can't compete with the free Android devices by everybody's favourite Asians.

     

    Scale back HW (or get rid of it and let the Asians sell them at a loss) and cut BB10 prices. It's not likely, if BB is still public, they'll need to report another HW loss, but shorts can always hope.
    27 Sep 2013, 07:25 AM Reply Like
  • Andreas Hopf
    , contributor
    Comments (7396) | Send Message
     
    Wait for the write-downs for all those boatloads of Q10, Q5 and Z30 devices. You ain't seen nothin' yet.
    27 Sep 2013, 09:49 AM Reply Like
  • BrianMc89
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    So when they recognize all the written off Z10's at some point in time...hows that gonna look? Bad Q, but seems to be they bit the bullet now to let Prem take over easier.
    27 Sep 2013, 07:28 AM Reply Like
  • Scal80
    , contributor
    Comments (40) | Send Message
     
    Cash burn from operations of $134 million... that's lower than expected. Really wanted more info on the $1 billion writedown, too bad no CC.
    27 Sep 2013, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • Chris Lau
    , contributor
    Comments (1482) | Send Message
     
    Exactly. (BBRY) could flood the weak US market with at-cost Z10's on 10.2 (I installed the leaked version yesterday - it's quite good - really enhances the messaging experience with in-line replying)...but they choose to push all the losses on us shareholders.
    27 Sep 2013, 08:15 AM Reply Like
  • Scal80
    , contributor
    Comments (40) | Send Message
     
    They could push discounted z10s out in non-US markets where they are gaining traction. Retails left holding the bag.
    27 Sep 2013, 08:19 AM Reply Like
  • Redrut
    , contributor
    Comments (1225) | Send Message
     
    Chris, its a non cash accounting charge meaning that if they actually sold these phones now, they would see extremely large profits as the cost of goods sold would be 0 (cannot be written back up).

     

    Anyway, there comes a time when you simply have to admit that you were wrong. Clutching straws this small is a little ridiculous. OS10 is the saviour, os 10.1 is the saviour, universal BBM is the saviour.......
    27 Sep 2013, 09:19 AM Reply Like
  • vbbv
    , contributor
    Comments (64) | Send Message
     
    What a firm in BBM's shoes should do is to sell its assets and return all its money to shareholders and then dissolve. It is a much better outcome for shareholders than it just burning through cash.
    27 Sep 2013, 07:53 AM Reply Like
  • gwynfryn
    , contributor
    Comments (3810) | Send Message
     
    What makes you think they care about shareholders, vb? If they did, they could also pay back all recent bonuses and volunteer to work on one tenth of current pay, until it's back in profit; after all, they are supposed to be worth their enormous salaries because they know how to do all that stuff, right?
    27 Sep 2013, 08:25 AM Reply Like
  • Redrut
    , contributor
    Comments (1225) | Send Message
     
    burning cash isn't a tap you can turn off. By the way, selling their assets and returning money to shareholders is EXACTLY what they are doing.
    27 Sep 2013, 09:20 AM Reply Like
  • Voice of Doom
    , contributor
    Comments (70) | Send Message
     
    "Months before Fairfax Financial Holdings Inc bid $4.7 billion for BlackBerry Ltd , Fairfax boss Prem Watsa played a role in securing a golden parachute worth as much as $55 million for the smartphone maker's chief executive, according to company filings."

     

    This is the beginning of a piece from a credible source (TD Waterhouse). The piece is written by Alastair Sharp (Thomson Reuters). You can probably find it there. In it, he writes about backroom dealings between the board of directors and the CEO tripling Heins compensation if he is able to sell the company (read: bring the company to its knees). Basically, they've scr*wed the investors, me being one of them.

     

    I'm thinking a class-action suit will come from this trying to link Watsa and Heins to a conspiracy to bring down the company for cheap acquisition.
    27 Sep 2013, 10:04 AM Reply Like
  • gwynfryn
    , contributor
    Comments (3810) | Send Message
     
    Either that, VOD, or they've turned "bumbling incompetence" into an art form...
    27 Sep 2013, 11:18 AM Reply Like
  • Tech Watcher
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    What if the Board and Heins knew all the time that there was no way they could survive? What if they overproduced to show a huge loss so PW could acquire it cheaply? What if it was the plan all the time, ever since Heins was promoted to CEO, to wind it down? Why didn't they just do as @vbbv says above--because Watsa wouldn't have made a big enough return on his investment?
    27 Sep 2013, 08:18 AM Reply Like
  • gwynfryn
    , contributor
    Comments (3810) | Send Message
     
    That would explain why he's still there; he's known the sales figures from the beginning, and has had plenty of opportunity to scale down, which would otherwise indicate that he is incompetent, and not fit for current employment, n'est pas?
    27 Sep 2013, 08:28 AM Reply Like
  • whatda
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    This bid by Fairfax to take over BB doesn’t seem coincidental. Chain of events: PW resign the board, BOD vote TH a compensation package adjustment 3x, pre-announcements of BB activity, stock tanks, Fairfax $157m payday if, who stands to gain, interest of whom in mind, shareholders get……..
    27 Sep 2013, 08:18 AM Reply Like
  • june1234
    , contributor
    Comments (2330) | Send Message
     
    Going forward they'll have to post without T-Mobile who pulled BBRY products from their US stores
    27 Sep 2013, 08:49 AM Reply Like
  • Scal80
    , contributor
    Comments (40) | Send Message
     
    TMob will still have demos in their stores, but purchases are online only.
    27 Sep 2013, 09:01 AM Reply Like
  • Randal James
    , contributor
    Comments (2158) | Send Message
     
    For those thinking "Keep calm & carry on"

     

    Following BlackBerry's huge shortfall pre-announcement last week, Jabil and BlackBerry agreed that the manufacture of BlackBerry smartphones by Jabil will end in this current November quarter.
    27 Sep 2013, 08:53 AM Reply Like
  • Faz1
    , contributor
    Comments (5) | Send Message
     
    It does not make sense that BB ( shareholders) would take the hit of the earning announcement and then sell the company cheap. The hit has been taken. Now the company should sell the inventory of phones at a discount ( and also provide cash incentives to sales staff) to build up market share. Now is the time to capture the mid and low priced device market. BB can also greatly expand BES10 and BBM revenues at the same time. This could be a great company again. The hit has happened. Only a dumb CEO and Board would sell out now. Makes no sense.
    27 Sep 2013, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • Redrut
    , contributor
    Comments (1225) | Send Message
     
    Faz1, they made this accounting charge because PW would have adjusted for this in his due diligence anyway. They have simply cleaned their balance sheet to give us the real value of their inventory.

     

    Do you really think you can sell an 18 month old phone for a similar price as a 5s?
    27 Sep 2013, 09:22 AM Reply Like
  • Randal James
    , contributor
    Comments (2158) | Send Message
     
    Faz

     

    Walk down to the dock, mosey out to the end of the pier. See that receding speck on the horizon? That was the chance of BBRY regaining a foothold - or even a toehold - in what has become a very expensive battleground for mobile phones.

     

    There are three well-financed players we are familiar with in N. America - Apple, Samsung and Microsoft. There are a slew of minor payers in India and China. Because they know their markets so well, they are eating BBRY's lunch in the inexpensive handset business. It is likely that two or more of them will become large enough to challenge Samsung's lead in Android. Google is still involved and could battle Samsung in ways in which we can only guess.

     

    To suggest that it is time for BBRY to stand and fight is to do so only out of a profound sense of curiosity to see how dismal and unsuccessful that effort would be. The remaining safe port is Enterprise and Watsa may well be the one to figure out how to keep BBRY solvent long enough to make that happen.

     

    Staying with this nautical theme, if you have ever watched a movie involving submarines, they are always being hunted by a ship on the surface dropping depth charges. The AAhhhoooogah! alarm is shrieking, the Captain is begging for a dive. The lights flicker as the explosions outside grow ever closer...

     

    You might be thinking "Hmmm... maybe I should have sat this one out."
    27 Sep 2013, 09:29 AM Reply Like
  • BugleBoy
    , contributor
    Comments (120) | Send Message
     
    @Randal
    It would appear that PW would disagree with you to the tune of $4.7B

     

    Just sayin...
    27 Sep 2013, 09:53 AM Reply Like
  • Faz1
    , contributor
    Comments (5) | Send Message
     
    It does not make sense that BB ( shareholders) would take the hit of the earning announcement and then sell the company cheap. The hit has been taken. Now the company should sell the inventory of phones at a discount ( and also provide cash incentives to sales staff) to build up market share. Now is the time to capture the mid and low priced device market. BB can also greatly expand BES10 and BBM revenues at the same time. This could be a great company again. The hit has happened. Only a dumb CEO and Board would sell out now. Makes no sense.
    27 Sep 2013, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (1916) | Send Message
     
    In my opinion, Blackberry should offer all those non sold devices to Mobile Developers. Then maybe a few of them would decide to start developing a few apps.
    27 Sep 2013, 10:21 AM Reply Like
  • LoganSix
    , contributor
    Comments (275) | Send Message
     
    Developers who submit an app before the end of Oct. that's not an Android port might get a special red Z10.

     

    So, they have been giving away free devices to developers.

     

    They also gave a $10k guarantee on qualified apps as well.
    27 Sep 2013, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • Randal James
    , contributor
    Comments (2158) | Send Message
     
    And they are using special colors to denote their financial status.
    27 Sep 2013, 02:47 PM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (1916) | Send Message
     
    LoganSix, somehow... that seems incredibly different from my suggestion.
    28 Sep 2013, 06:04 AM Reply Like
  • Black Truck
    , contributor
    Comments (33) | Send Message
     
    I hope someone on SA will go through the financials and restate them as if (1) the phone revenue recognition hadn't changed, and (2) all the revenue from the 5.9 million phones actually sold was booked.

     

    From my look at the financials, it seems 5.9 million phones were sold through, while revenue was only booked for 3.7 BB7 phones. Think about this. 2.2 million mostly BB10 (I assume) sold without the revenue booked. That would have changed the numbers dramatically.

     

    Its hard to escape the conclusion that the financials were made to look artificially bad this quarter.
    27 Sep 2013, 10:36 AM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8760) | Send Message
     
    Why don't you do it? It'd be a good service for all of the readers.
    27 Sep 2013, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • terryb86
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    The difference in revenue booked and and phone sold is due to the fact that revenue used to be booked when products shipped. Bbry is now saying they will book it when product is sold to the end user (not when shipped). So the revenue from 5.9 million phones sold through was booked in a previous quarter. The 3.9 million sold now is an accurate picture of how many new phones ended up in customers hands this quarter. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.....
    27 Sep 2013, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • Black Truck
    , contributor
    Comments (33) | Send Message
     
    @ Ashraf.

     

    I would love to. But its like the title to one of my favorite songs - No Time.

     

    @Terryb86

     

    Because of the change over in revenue recognition, the revenue from the extra 2.2 million phones was booked last quarter and not this one. So we don't have an accurate picture of what revenue would have been this quarter under the new system were that 2.2 million phones included.
    27 Sep 2013, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • sfinvestor
    , contributor
    Comments (847) | Send Message
     
    You can sell everyone you build as long as it it cheap enough. That's not really the point. If you lose money from your inventory as the Z10 writedown is already telling you (It is basically a true-up). Build more, lose more. The more units are sold through the more you should be scared. The more phones they build, the closer to BK, that is an undeniable fact.

     

    When the PL gets messy, look at the balance sheet. See below.
    27 Sep 2013, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • WATERLOO JOE
    , contributor
    Comments (396) | Send Message
     
    This whole thing smells worse than any rendering plant ever emitted,
    Back door rumblings say all the real estate will be sold to the adjoining University of Waterloo on completion of privatization ,which will further line the pockets of the so called consortium and not the shareholders, The local news station talk in past tense about Blackberry , It's Like listening to a eulogy , As they say nothing is Forever. R.I.P.
    27 Sep 2013, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • sfinvestor
    , contributor
    Comments (847) | Send Message
     
    just got back and eager to look at the inventory and payable flux.

     

    Inventory. After the 1B inventory writedown, ending inventory as of 8/30/2013 is 941M an increase from 887M. These are inventory in their own warehouse and does not include channel (most likely Q10 devices). It is a certainty for more writedowns for all devices included the Z10 (net realizable value of 8/30 may be marked down some more). I fully expect another 1B dollar writedown in December (if we make it there as a public company.) and much more down the road.

     

    Accounts receiable net went from 3.4B to 1.9B or 1.5B unfavorable. It just means little actual cash coming in for the next six months which will accerlerate cash burn. They are a shriking business which is reflected in the alarming reduction in receivable.

     

    Accounts payable net went from 3.4B to 3.9B or 500M unfavorable. While customers are cut, all the bills remain and more. Less income and more bills.

     

    In addition to the 500M cash burn, the receievable/payable flux will tell you they will burn 2B more based on the balance sheet after settling their cash in from the receivable and cash out from the bills. In laymans turn, their income got cut permanently by 50% while all the bills accrued in the past and committed remains.

     

    That's why I always maintained this company is on the quick path to bankrucpcy and has no value to a buyer. More importanty, this is why no bank will allow a leverage buyout with BBRy assets, its not there. lol. If bankers are reading this, feel free to email me.

     

    @Chris, inventory writedown is based on net all in cost and all out based on net realizable value as of 8_30. If the realiable vlaue is less than 8_30 and it certainly will be, there will be more writedowns.
    27 Sep 2013, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • where's the food
    , contributor
    Comments (33) | Send Message
     
    I think you make a good point about cash resources.

     

    I've never bought into the storyline about 3bil cash and no debt. Comparatively speaking, it just isn't all that much. As well, I was always taught that leveraging a manage-able amount of debt is how companies grow and these low rates are soon to be history.
    27 Sep 2013, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • sfinvestor
    , contributor
    Comments (847) | Send Message
     
    Furthermore service revenue went from 794M to 723M or 9% unfavorable.

     

    Remember the 794M last quarter reflected the provision from Venezuela of 72M.

     

    In actuality, Service revenue is sinking like a rock and will continue to sink like a rock rendering service worthless. (SAF from bb7 will be reduced as people will trend away from that platform without the roadmap for replacement.)

     

    par for the course, mgmt does not make it easy for you and conviently canceled the discussion.

     

    I think one of the highlights is some 25K servers were adopted for BB10? What's the point? BB10 is dead. This highlight is meaningless.
    27 Sep 2013, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • LoganSix
    , contributor
    Comments (275) | Send Message
     
    I'm guessing that the inventory is the new Z30, that just went on sale in the UK today.
    27 Sep 2013, 02:47 PM Reply Like
  • mapshop1@optonline.net
    , contributor
    Comments (270) | Send Message
     
    "Inventory. After the 1B inventory writedown, ending inventory as of 8/30/2013 is 941M an increase from 887M. These are inventory in their own warehouse and does not include channel (most likely Q10 devices)."

     

    Wrong. Of course it includes channel inventory. Where else on the balance sheet would the channel inventory be? If its shipped but not recognized as a sale, it stays in inventory, similar to a consignment (Accounting 101).
    28 Sep 2013, 09:45 AM Reply Like
  • sfinvestor
    , contributor
    Comments (847) | Send Message
     
    I find it troubling that BBRY chose to compare balance sheet between March 1 and Sep 1st with respect to the press release. par for the course.

     

    Fortunately, these things are not overlooked by me.
    27 Sep 2013, 12:45 PM Reply Like
  • mapshop1@optonline.net
    , contributor
    Comments (270) | Send Message
     
    Standard SEC format (Reg. S-X: 210.10-1(c)(1).
    28 Sep 2013, 09:51 AM Reply Like
  • where's the food
    , contributor
    Comments (33) | Send Message
     
    Okay, so what to with the inventory?

     

    BB may have to sign up a third party to provide customer service and I don't think it'll come cheap after clearing all those handsets.
    27 Sep 2013, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • sfinvestor
    , contributor
    Comments (847) | Send Message
     
    ok last post on BBRY, what's said already been said over the course of six months. Good luck to all.

     

    moving on to JCP and FB.
    27 Sep 2013, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • Randal James
    , contributor
    Comments (2158) | Send Message
     
    JCP?

     

    That's lazy - you'll just be repeating yourself.
    27 Sep 2013, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • la cabanya
    , contributor
    Comments (70) | Send Message
     
    Still there is a great opportunity to maximize the return of the BBRY great assets to the shareholders, included me and we should not panic yet!
    The best way is to establish Nov. 4th as the Day of the truth for us.
    Imagine no more BS, no more thousands of comments of the shorts or longs and a final and clear pad the reality of the value of BBRY.
    No more Chief Cooking Officers dressing the numbers and making them appear to the like of people like BS, TH and PW!,
    or TH telling us how great is Alicia Keyes or having to manipulate anymore the reality of what is really doing BBRY for his friends or DB.
    This is what should be done and nothing less and let the bidders from all over the world be there to honestly bid the best prices for every single part of BBRY!
    Nov 4th should be done the Clearest Bidding Auction ever made!
    This can be conducted at BBRY headquarters in Waterloo and should be done by a crystal clear, money rock solid auctioneer!
    Prepare immediately a book with total details of all Assets and Liabilities, separated by categories and listing in complete detail from Inventories to A/P, A/R, Real Estate properties, Patents, etc. etc.
    Charge a nominal fee for the people interested in bidding and let them put a deposit or guarantee at least for half the amount that they are interested in purchase.
    At auction time, PW should be there as stalking horse offering at the bidding start the 9 $, if he really has secured the money that he claims in his BS letter will offer that day!
    Than the Auctioneer should establish a reserve and minimum price that eventually the auction could be called off!
    Now the bids should begin for the different lots in which should be divided all the assets of BBRY,
    After this had been accomplished and there is a total to compare with the PW offer, should start the Final Bidding for all assets combined of BBRY!
    At the end the winner could be PW, the company sold in pieces or the Final Bidder winner!
    They can close the auction and then all proceeds should be delivered to the Trustee for possible final distribution to all the shareholders, together with the Cash on Hand!
    That should generate substantially much more money than the PW bid!
    Now something strange is related to the App for BBRY for Android and iOS, as is possible that TH is holding on this great asset of BBRY until the company is delivered to PW if no other system of bidding is allowed!
    I think that the Chief Technology Officer of BBRY should be forced to a deposition immediately to find out is this apps can work now or not.
    Just for your information that BBM once in the other phones could provide the finest telephone calls crystal clear to anybody in the BBM worldwide and could be worth Billions! much better than WhatsApp
    TH, C'mon please retire this weekend, all will be extremely grateful to you! But we will appreciate if you refuse to collect your severance pay as gratitude to the people of Waterloo!
    How you can take 57 Million when 4.000 are losing their job and getting nothing home!
    27 Sep 2013, 03:40 PM Reply Like
  • Andreas Hopf
    , contributor
    Comments (7396) | Send Message
     
    Thorsten "no more tablets in 5 years" Heins can't hear you. He's listening to Alicia Keys' "Tears always win" on auto repeat, hiding in that boxfile cupboard in his office still.
    27 Sep 2013, 03:56 PM Reply Like
  • gwynfryn
    , contributor
    Comments (3810) | Send Message
     
    Crying all the way to the bank?
    28 Sep 2013, 08:57 AM Reply Like
  • AdventureCapital
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    If you add up
    Cash,ST Inv,A/R,OtherA/R,IT Rec,LT Inv (1181+1163+1743+223+46...
    Less
    A/c Pay,Accrued Liabilities,Deferred IT Liab, IT Payables ((1130+1909+202+9)=3250
    then they are left with 1747m. That's pretty much their Cash+AR-AP.
    Moreover, inventory has risen to 941m this quarter.That doesn't include the channel inventory. And the Q10 inventory is still not written off.
    27 Sep 2013, 05:05 PM Reply Like
  • la cabanya
    , contributor
    Comments (70) | Send Message
     
    To know the real value of a Balance Sheet you need to add all the assets and liabilities; not pick and choose!
    Lets start here again!
    We believe that TH, BS the DB and PW had grossly mismanaged and manipulated the company at their convenience!
    PW signed on the 57 Million compensation for TH termination,
    Now TH, BS and the DB signed on the 150+ Million for PW for his
    BS Letter of Intend that he can scrap at his wish!By the way how BS still is Chairman and where are her credentials for dealing with that highly complicated company!When you fire 4.000 dedicated people because the company is starting to lose money you don't give Millions away to anybody!That simple! The money belong to the shareholders and is not property of the management at all!If they manage with total irresponsibility they may deserve to serve some prison, as they are stealing money that is not of their personal property!I want to point that people had lost Billions of Dollars in BBRY, as other had made the profits, but if the law had been broken at any time the people responsible should bear the consequences!So the clock is ticking and the time arrived for us to hire some Securities Criminal Lawyers that can look in deep into the manipulations in BBRY during the last few months, including what happened with the promised launching of the Android and iOS Apps,
    now frozen (nobody knows why, but we should take depositions on the subject from the Chief Technology Officer and others!
    TH is going to have big problems if we can proof that they had been playing games, cooking books and bypassing General Accepted Accounting Practices in the numbers for their personal or their friends benefit!
    That is just the start.
    Will check with the Lawyers what else is appropriate to review as at this moment everything coming from BBRY looks very dark, that is not clear at all!
    Maybe somebody should go to jail here, if some people are serving a few years for tipping an stock, we think that people that fouled honest investors deserve a lot more harsh punishment.
    Anybody agrees?
    27 Sep 2013, 06:34 PM Reply Like
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