Seeking Alpha

Dangerous game of chicken playing out in Chinese airspace

  • The Obama administration wants U.S. carriers to avoid routing flights as the crow flies if it means crossing into Chinese airspace with tensions escalating over China's new air defense zone.
  • The move by China is related to a territorial dispute with Japan over a group of rocky islands, but threatens to disrupt the commercial airline industry in the nation.
  • In an act of defiance, Japanese and South Korean carriers aren't filing flight plans to comply with the new strict regulations from Beijing.
  • What to watch: The lucrative business travel segment in China could be up for grabs if Beijing extends the strict regulations or punishes non-compliant carriers.
  • Related airliners: Delta Air Lines (DAL), United Continental (UAL), US Airways (LCC), Ryanair (RYAAY), Cathay Pacific Airways (CPCAY), Singapore Airways (SINGY), China Eastern Airlines (CEA), China Southern Airlines (ZNH), British Airways.
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Comments (23)
  • The Investment Doctor
    , contributor
    Comments (1229) | Send Message
     
    How exactly is Ryanair related to Asian problems???
    30 Nov 2013, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • Edward Yoxen
    , contributor
    Comments (216) | Send Message
     
    Good point. If you enter Dublin to Beijing in the flight section of the Ryanair web site you are offered a number of flights, eg on Turkish Airlines, but none of them on Ryanair, which, as you imply, serves only Europe and North Africa.
    1 Dec 2013, 07:50 AM Reply Like
  • Jeb Handwerger
    , contributor
    Comments (630) | Send Message
     
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    Watch the rare earth sector!
    1 Dec 2013, 05:55 PM Reply Like
  • thx1104
    , contributor
    Comments (8) | Send Message
     
    Sounds like Obama is caving in already .... was that B52 flyover just to placate U.S. citizens and concerned allies???
    1 Dec 2013, 02:24 AM Reply Like
  • John Overstreet
    , contributor
    Comments (573) | Send Message
     
    The US, Japan, and South Korea have been flying bombers, spy planes, and fighters into the area. Suggesting that civilian aircraft exhibit more caution than military aircraft is hardly 'caving in.' So far, every one, except perhaps the Taiwanese, has taken a firm line.
    1 Dec 2013, 11:05 AM Reply Like
  • Angel Martin
    , contributor
    Comments (1341) | Send Message
     
    the problem with even civilian aircraft complying with china's air zone is that it recognizes china's jurisdiction and right to do this

     

    as a result, Japan and S Korea have instructed their civilian aircraft to ignore china's air defence zone.

     

    so obama has now undermined america's allies in their position… nice going Zero, more "smart" diplomacy on display
    1 Dec 2013, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • John Overstreet
    , contributor
    Comments (573) | Send Message
     
    Generally, don't the police advise people to comply with criminals during robberies, etc? I don't think that is interpreted as giving jurisdiction up to the criminals. It is just letting law enforcement deal with the bad guys. The Japanese originally did have civilian aircraft comply and the Taiwanese still do.

     

    As long as 'our side' is flying military aircraft in there, the message is perfectly obvious, and the pressure is on. No need for Boeing Dreamliners to flip China the bird, is there?
    1 Dec 2013, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • hanakookie
    , contributor
    Comments (108) | Send Message
     
    You already have determined it is Chinese air space. Weak at most. What the Chinese are doing is imperialistic. What if your neighbor decided to take control of your front yard? I think the Chinese have more to lose than we do.
    1 Dec 2013, 08:43 AM Reply Like
  • Pony01
    , contributor
    Comments (282) | Send Message
     
    None of the current geopolitical world problems will be solved until an administration returns to the white house that understands America's greatness and the importance of America to lead the free world. Appeasement is never a good policy: Historically speaking.
    1 Dec 2013, 09:01 AM Reply Like
  • SoCalNative
    , contributor
    Comments (587) | Send Message
     
    Nice one, Pony. +1
    1 Dec 2013, 09:27 AM Reply Like
  • positivethoughts
    , contributor
    Comments (2011) | Send Message
     
    America is not 'leader of the free world'. That saying is getting old and has very little truth to it.

     

    America isnt a capitalistic country anymore. Your effective tax rate hovers around 50%, which means that the US government is the single, biggest decision maker in how wealth is allocated in your economy. That is not the definition of a free market economy or a free country. Also, your country is essentially bankrupt and without fed 'printing', you dont have much 'production' at all.

     

    You guys owe 3 Trillion in IOUs to the Chinese. The Chinese have been giving Americans 'rebates' in the form of treasury purchases so that Americans would have an easier time affording Chinese exports. But, China sees the rebate demands by Americans as getting too high and is worried they are getting paid back with increasingly worthless U.S. dollars. The U.S. dollar has lost almost 50% of its value against the Canadian dollar in the past 10 or so years, for example. The Chinese are now buying assets around the world - companies involved in energy production, for example - instead of wasting more of it buying more U.S. debt.

     

    Most American cities are insolvent and all of your social programs are basically ponzi schemes, which will have to be 'reorganized and adjusted' within the next 15 years.

     

    America also spies on almost everyone around the world, with their 'war on terror' and the NSA. Your government now kills their own citizens without trial and your biggest export is war. The American military also helps grow and import most of the heroin in Afghanistan and help bring it into the U.S. Google 'fox news Geraldo heroin afghanistan' if you dont believe me. Or here is the link for you now:

     

    http://bit.ly/1fXc92F

     

    The U.S. government then contracts private prisons and arrests and imprisons those who buy and use the heroin that the U.S. government helped grow and distribute throughout America.

     

    And you think the U.S. is a beacon for freedom?

     

    When someone like Ron Paul suggested that the size of government be reduced and people win back their freedoms, he was ridiculed by Republicans, not just democrats, as being old and foolish. Think about that! Those on the 'right' made fun of a man for promoting limited government and freedom.

     

    The only thing America seems to want to do nowadays is print money and start wars. People around the world will get tired of that very soon.

     

    China has already stopped using U.S. dollars in their trade with Australia. Other countries will follow. Once the world stops using U.S. dollars for business transactions, America is finished. America can threaten to seize bank assets and attack more countries if more countries try to move off the dollar, but with China and now Russia flexing its muscle, America is no longer the dominant nation in the world and will no longer being able to control everyone else.
    1 Dec 2013, 05:31 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (13280) | Send Message
     
    POSITIVE

     

    You smoking what that Mayor is?

     

    Yup.. Canada is a beacon for sure ! I stopped reading your rant after the first sentence.
    1 Dec 2013, 10:33 PM Reply Like
  • zigazaga
    , contributor
    Comments (147) | Send Message
     
    Stopped reading after first sentence? But he mentions Canada only in the last paragraph. Uncomfortable reading, isn't it?
    2 Dec 2013, 10:24 PM Reply Like
  • minecanary
    , contributor
    Comments (641) | Send Message
     
    Military superiority isn't going to count as far as how this is decided. If China tops buying our bonds or decides to dump a few hundred billion of what they own, Obama will be kissing Chinese butt cheeks the next business day. That's something the FED can't overcome w/printing.
    1 Dec 2013, 11:51 AM Reply Like
  • Excalibur5
    , contributor
    Comments (246) | Send Message
     
    The East China Sea has always been a hot spot. I remember growing up on a military base in Okinawa during the Cold War. There were always incidents where Soviet subs would get tangled up in fishing nets within the vicinity of Okinawa. Now we have the Chinese flexing their muscles in that region.

     

    Almost everything is manufactured in China, we owe a huge amount of debt to China, and many American businesses have operations in China. We may have put ourselves in a corner.
    1 Dec 2013, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • cn_habs
    , contributor
    Comments (340) | Send Message
     
    What most mainstream "unbiased" media conveniently forget to mention is that it was the Japanese ADIZ expansion and the Diaoyu/Sensuka purchase that caused this whole region to spin out of control in 2012.

     

    Japan also has territorial disputes with all of its neighbors in South Korean, Russia and Taiwan and its ADIZ is as close as 150 km away from Shanghai: http://bit.ly/1iqrgU1

     

    Instead of being dragged into territorial disputes by a right-wing Japan led by Abe, Obama actually took the smart approach to reign in its imperialistic ally by sending B-52B instead of B-2s and telling airlines to comply with the Chinese ADIZ.

     

    Would Americans want to waste billions of your tax dollars or even the lives of her sons and daughters to encourage Japanese territorial expansion?
    1 Dec 2013, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • John Overstreet
    , contributor
    Comments (573) | Send Message
     
    I would refer you to this article when it comes to the competing claims about the Senkakus:

     

    http://bit.ly/19d7MJ4

     

    This confrontation has been generated almost entirely by Chinese ubernationalists.
    2 Dec 2013, 08:57 AM Reply Like
  • positivethoughts
    , contributor
    Comments (2011) | Send Message
     
    Japan is bankrupt and is a has-been world power. They will have their debt crises soon, their population is decreasing and their ability to actually pay for things will get weaker, moving forward. China, conversely, is the economy that is valuable to companies, and therefore to governments. Which market, and therefore, which country do you think the Americans will favour in this battle?

     

    Think about running your own business and about your biggest customers. If two of your customers are arguing with one another about your availability, are you going to side with customer A, who is only 1/10 the size of customer B? You cant, even if you wanted to.
    1 Dec 2013, 05:06 PM Reply Like
  • Tactical Technician
    , contributor
    Comments (146) | Send Message
     
    Boycott Walmart, and we'll see how "powerful" China actually is.
    1 Dec 2013, 06:19 PM Reply Like
  • Lakeaffect
    , contributor
    Comments (1178) | Send Message
     
    Agreed. Stuff coming from China is trash. But it fits perfectly in America's throw away society. China is actually making us more efficient - we can now throw it away without even bothering to open the package! Next maybe stores will move their dumpsters close to the exit doors. That way we can trash it before getting to the car. Perfect consumerism, always at low prices.
    1 Dec 2013, 07:12 PM Reply Like
  • Interesting Times
    , contributor
    Comments (13280) | Send Message
     
    TT

     

    Can't boycott WalMart... Prices are too low. It is the Holiday season:)
    1 Dec 2013, 10:35 PM Reply Like
  • cn_habs
    , contributor
    Comments (340) | Send Message
     
    Get grasp of the reality! Most Americans won't boycott WM... Just look at what happened on Black Friday.
    2 Dec 2013, 11:05 PM Reply Like
  • Pony01
    , contributor
    Comments (282) | Send Message
     
    I appreciate the posts, however, boycott Walmart? Really...Let's think strategically for a moment. There are arguably two evil empires with the ability to harm the US or its interests: Iran and North Korea. The Chinese are secondary players in this regard. The current administration is botching these two foreign policy conundrums. Iran is part of a larger Sunni/Shiite civil war. That's why Saudi Arabia and Israel are working together to neutralize Iran and its proxies. Exhibit A would be the recent assassination of a Hezbollah leader in Lebanon right after Nasrallah spewed hatred in a widely watched speech. The other side of this equation is Saudi Arabia/US relations. The lowest ever and getting worse. Exhibit A here is the US cutting aid to the Military Government in Egypt and Saudi Arabia increasing aid to Egypt over 10 times the amount we were sending. Egypt is moving away from the west. The Saudis and other Middle East countries see the evil in radical shiite Islam (which is in Western Culture's best interest) and the US - for whatever reason - cannot. But know this - It is the single greatest threat to the US and Western Culture. North Korea is an Autocracy lead by a family who will do anything to maintain control which leads to total control of who eats and who dies. 20 years or so ago the North Korean's lowered their height requirement for military service to a minimum of 4' 10". There is no better evidence of food scarcity then this. So how does China play into this: China wants to be a regional power. North Korea fits this paradigm perfectly. The Korean war and all that. Iran on the other hand only has oil. The Chinese have access to the clean crude from Iran and bear virtually know military cost to receive it. The US and its allies keep the Straits of Hormuz open with large naval forces in the region. The Chinese benefit by skirting UN sanctions and buying oil "on the cheap." What does the cash for this oil do? Feeds radical Islam and their acolytes to press war (5th generation war, not something the general populations of the West understand).
    The geopolitical problems are seen when viewed strategically. I urge my fellow investors to keep this in mind. Boycotting Walmart becomes a flight of fancy when viewed from this perspective. The bigger issue is US foreign policy. Here we are failing. The current administration bumbles though serious foreign policy issues with no clear direction: Syrian poison gas attacks, North Korean strategic rocket launches, Iran nuclear negotiations, ending US conflicts with complete troop withdrawal, etc. These are all interconnected and lack of a coherent, strategic foreign policy shows weakness to our friends and adversaries.
    Boycott Walmart, No: A muscular strategic foreign policy - Yes!
    Let's think big.
    4 Dec 2013, 10:24 AM Reply Like
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