Seeking Alpha

The real Philip Morris debate

  • The Ronnie Moas side story isn't going away anytime soon as the Standpoint Research analyst has appearances scheduled on CNBC, Bloomberg TV, and Fox Business News this week to discuss his list of amoral stocks which includes Philip Morris (PM +0.7%).
  • The gadfly is likely to repeat his mantra that Philip Morris sells a product that kills people.
  • The cooler heads evaluating Philip Morris see it still sitting in a "wildly profitable" business and as a reliable dividend-payer.
  • What to focus on: The debate on the company should center on the growth potential of its new e-cigarette and low-tobacco products. Estimates vary wildly.
Comments (22)
  • thenoffya
    , contributor
    Comments (141) | Send Message
     
    Ronnie Moas won't go away? Yes! I can add to my position at lower prices shortly!
    15 Jan, 01:07 PM Reply Like
  • tomlos
    , contributor
    Comments (1117) | Send Message
     
    This guy is an idiot seriously.
    15 Jan, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • tipper 1
    , contributor
    Comments (124) | Send Message
     
    Didn't this guy also downgrade AMBA which has done nothing but go up exponentially........that is until last week ??
    15 Jan, 01:35 PM Reply Like
  • mostserene1
    , contributor
    Comments (3330) | Send Message
     
    "Burn the witches". This guy should have lived in the dark ages, where his type belong.
    15 Jan, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • VegasNick
    , contributor
    Comments (29) | Send Message
     
    Smoking kills people? Gee who knew this earth shattering info!!!!!!!!! Thanks for driving the share prince lower just in time for the dividend to pick them up at a 4.5% yield!
    15 Jan, 03:00 PM Reply Like
  • Buyandhold 2012
    , contributor
    Comments (2144) | Send Message
     
    It is the relentless beat of anti-tobacco legislation and negative attacks on tobacco by individuals such as Ronnie Moas that keep tobacco stocks rather attractively priced.

     

    Individuals who will not invest in tobacco stocks because they feel that tobacco is harmful should seriously ask themselves what publicly listed companies do absolutely no harm to anyone. I can tell you that the list is quite short.
    15 Jan, 03:11 PM Reply Like
  • BAHAMAS1
    , contributor
    Comments (2039) | Send Message
     
    Moas was an unknown,
    and after his 15 mins...
    Will Remain an Unknown !

     

    PM will go forward...profitably.

     

    Maybe his next stop is Ford and GM...they also make products that kill.
    15 Jan, 03:58 PM Reply Like
  • b3player
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    You know as a younger investor I did pay close attention to the ethics of my company purchases. But as a grew older I realized that a great many companies did not align with my moral world view. For example, Fast food and soft drink companies that can promote health issues, U S retail companies that don't provide health insurance or a living wage to to their workers or oil companies that use questional means to extract oil and nat gas from the earth.

     

    My point is, it is to each investor to make their own decisions about wether to invest in a company that may or may not have negative attributes. I don't know this analysis, but I certainly would not pay money for his advice as I don't need his world view of what is ethical or isn't.
    15 Jan, 04:09 PM Reply Like
  • 1GreatCFA
    , contributor
    Comments (941) | Send Message
     
    b3 I would go so far as to say that one should - perhaps not exclusively but lets say predominantly - invest in companies that, for the lack of a better term, screw people. Unless you actually create innovation or productivity, which lets face it actually takes hard work, effort and brains, best way to make profits is to screw people.
    16 Jan, 09:23 AM Reply Like
  • Snoopy1
    , contributor
    Comments (1114) | Send Message
     
    True - if you look at some "vice" funds such as VICEX, they perform very well over time.
    16 Jan, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • Occamsrazor
    , contributor
    Comments (709) | Send Message
     
    I strongly support companies that poison my country's enemies, and those who would assault my children. Therefore, I approve of PM's business model, as it sells to countries that have a lot of terrorists. So much for moral dilemmas.

     

    With that aside, I have a 20 year timeline. Moas' comments are not going to change the profits of this comany, and slow stock growth will simply mean I can by my ever increasing dividend more cheaply.
    15 Jan, 05:49 PM Reply Like
  • BAHAMAS1
    , contributor
    Comments (2039) | Send Message
     
    b3player-
    Just saw this moas on cnbc fast money.

     

    To say the least, What a very strange person.

     

    He was asked what would he like to see Amazon do to aid their worldwide workers compensation.
    His answer was :
    " Bezos should take 1/2 B$ of his own money and send them all to the Galapagos Islands where he (Bezos) just was".

     

    WOW this guy is a NUT !
    15 Jan, 06:11 PM Reply Like
  • marcos1
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    Bahamas1, ever hear of Ignaz Semmelwies? Probably not because you only care about money.
    Check out the link below. There's a sliver of a chance that you might learn something from it.
    http://bit.ly/LB071X
    Here is a summary:
    He was an early pioneer of antiseptic procedures. Described as the "savior of mothers", Semmelweis discovered that the incidence of puerperal fever could be drastically cut by the use of hand disinfection in obstetrical clinics. Puerperal fever was common in mid-19th-century hospitals and often fatal, with mortality at 10%–35%. Semmelweis proposed the practice of washing with chlorinated lime solutions in 1847 while working in Vienna General Hospital's First Obstetrical Clinic, where doctors' wards had three times the mortality of midwives' wards.[3] He published a book of his findings in Etiology, Concept and Prophylaxis of Childbed Fever.
    Despite various publications of results where hand-washing reduced mortality to below 1%, Semmelweis's observations conflicted with the established scientific and medical opinions of the time and his ideas were rejected by the medical community. Some doctors were offended at the suggestion that they should wash their hands and Semmelweis could offer no acceptable scientific explanation for his findings. Semmelweis's practice earned widespread acceptance only years after his death, when Louis Pasteur confirmed the germ theory and Joseph Lister, acting on the French microbiologist's research, practiced and operated, using hygienic methods, with great success. In 1865, Semmelweis was committed to an asylum, where he died at age 47 after being beaten by the guards, only 14 days after he was committed.

     

    Many people who challenge conventional wisdom are regarded as nuts. I'm sure Steve Jobs was classified as that many times. But many times these "nuts" are correct, and when looked back in history, the people that opposed them were shown as hateful, mean spirited, and DUMB!
    21 Jan, 10:35 AM Reply Like
  • Snoopy1
    , contributor
    Comments (1114) | Send Message
     
    I have to wonder whether his employer Standpoint Research regrets hiring him. He provides no value to clients and makes the firm look like a joke.

     

    //Update: I just read the linked article on Moas and noticed he founded Standpoint so that explains him having the job.
    15 Jan, 08:57 PM Reply Like
  • BAHAMAS1
    , contributor
    Comments (2039) | Send Message
     
    I still think He should FIRE himself.

     

    If not, I'm sure his client will.
    15 Jan, 10:04 PM Reply Like
  • Ronnie Moas
    , contributor
    Comments (35) | Send Message
     
    Maybe you critics should read my bio ... take a look at my web site ... audited track record and the 40-page report I wrote instead of taking my words out of context ... tobacco will be resposible for one billion deaths in this century ... continue to support the tobacco industry ... at the end of the day it is you who has to face the mirror ... I guess some people in this world have no conscience and there is no level too low to stoop for an extra dollar ... more than 5 mln deaths per year ... 500, 000 from second hand smike ... just in china there are 180 mln inhaling smoke ... you guys a are a smart bunch ... keep up the good work (sarcasm) ... you should be ashamed
    16 Jan, 07:51 AM Reply Like
  • Cziffra1977
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    A billion deaths? According to Bloomberg...please.
    Since you are a proud Leftist and probably a supporter of big government, I'd bet that governments will actually kill more people than cigs. After all over a quarter of a billion people were actually slaughtered under socialism, communism and Marxism in the 20th Century. Many more times that were oppressed, repressed, suppressed, tortured and jailed for practically no reason. Yeah, those tobacco companies are pure evil.
    18 Jan, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • BAHAMAS1
    , contributor
    Comments (2039) | Send Message
     
    Re: "you should be ashamed"

     

    So Should You with your condescending judgement of people that disagree with you.

     

    Your (sacasm-your comment) is as weak as your statement on cnbc to have
    "Bezos send all his employees to the Galapagos Islands" since he was just there.

     

    What the hell does that do ?
    It does nothing.
    You also said on cnbc you :"don't care if this stand runs your business into the ground".
    Imo, That's one heck of a way to treat your current clients.
    But it's your business...and I'm sure your on plan.
    16 Jan, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • VegasNick
    , contributor
    Comments (29) | Send Message
     
    Ronnie Moas
    You have the freedom of speech and press...and we investors have the freedom of choice.
    16 Jan, 11:09 AM Reply Like
  • nWo4life
    , contributor
    Comments (8) | Send Message
     
    Ronnie, please explain to me how selling my shares will save lives.
    16 Jan, 12:34 PM Reply Like
  • aaddrr2001
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    This guys "research" has nothing to do with the value of the company nor its daily price action so don't let him get to you. There have always been peple like this guy and always will. They don't amount to any value added no matter how smart or moral the try to appear.
    17 Jan, 11:46 AM Reply Like
  • BAHAMAS1
    , contributor
    Comments (2039) | Send Message
     
    Hey marcos1-
    You have a lot of nerve saying that "I only care about money", and I highly resent it !

     

    Quite frankly it is because of money that has allowed my private foundation to fund many social and medical issues that have helped hundreds of people over the last 1 1/2 decades.

     

    You and moas can take your story and stick it.

     

    When you and moas stop your finger pointing and bitching about those that have more than you , and have EARNED it ,and you start contributing out of your own pocket , then I'll listen.

     

    But your simple complaining , just like the "occupiers" has become quite stale and trite.

     

    Try , in your 4th comment to SA, becoming a giver and not a reviewer of stories that you use to try to make people feel guilty.
    You pulled this crap on the wrong person.
    21 Jan, 11:44 AM Reply Like
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