Seeking Alpha

Buzz building over Tesla gigafactory

  • This is the week that Tesla Motors (TSLA +3.6%) is expected to make an announcement on its "gigafactory" for battery production.
  • The cost of the facility is forecast to be in the billions, but estimates on the impact on Tesla's revenue stream and the expense to build each battery vary widely. Opinion is also divided over what the driving range will be for the gigfactory-produced vehicles.
  • One thing both Tesla supporters and detractors agree on: The direction of the gigafactory will determine if Tesla can mass produce vehicles in the $30K-$40K range.
  • The Phoenix Business Journal reports the EV automaker has been scouting potential sites in Arizona and other places in the Southwest for the gigafactory, while the Reno Gazette notes Tesla execs have been snooping around the northern part of Nevada.
  • Most analysts think the site will be in California in order to reduce transportation costs for the company.
From other sites
Comments (68)
  • embryorambo
    , contributor
    Comments (246) | Send Message
     
    Animal spirits pushing the stock higher and higher. The story is being sold hard
    24 Feb, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • joenjensen
    , contributor
    Comments (705) | Send Message
     
    Certainly not the shorts anymore, or is it?
    25 Feb, 09:22 PM Reply Like
  • aaronw2
    , contributor
    Comments (187) | Send Message
     
    Nevada and the southwest make sense since Tesla has stated that they plan for the factory to be solar powered and energy neutral.
    24 Feb, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • David at Imperial Beach
    , contributor
    Comments (4198) | Send Message
     
    Reno in particular makes sense. Nevada was hard hit by the housing crisis so housing should look very cheap to Bay Area execs. Reno is not that far away so transportation costs are better than anywhere else out-of-state. Airline travel between Bay Area and Reno is excellent.

     

    However, we don't know until we hear the announcement. If they came across another Nummi-sized factory sitting idle somewhere I'm sure that would influence their decision. Utilities (including water) and taxes might also influence the decision. Wherever they go will probably be an economic development zone where lots of people have been put out of work.
    24 Feb, 04:04 PM Reply Like
  • Dan Fichana
    , contributor
    Comments (1883) | Send Message
     
    So here's what you have to look for:
    1. Musk will probably spend some time there.
    2. Shipping
    3. Synergy with his solar company
    4. Recruitment and quality of life of employees
    5. Lowish labor cost and cost of living.
    6. Can he take advantage of time of use electricity?
    7. Land and incentives from each state

     

    It's a toss up, hard to say.
    24 Feb, 04:14 PM Reply Like
  • rvn0
    , contributor
    Comments (137) | Send Message
     
    @Dan, What is Elon Musk's solar company that you refer to?
    24 Feb, 08:58 PM Reply Like
  • swilkewitz
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    @rvno, He's referring to Solar City, which Musk is a chairmember of
    25 Feb, 03:02 AM Reply Like
  • Tom McClennan
    , contributor
    Comments (38) | Send Message
     
    The proposed factory is likely to dramatically cut Tesla's pack costs, and make them the single biggest supplier in the world, giving any competition a significant financial headache.

     

    Tesla plan to make the entire facility powered by renewable energy, hence scouting in Nevada.

     

    They also plan to encompass recycling of all other Lithium cells.

     

    Brilliant basically.

     

    24 Feb, 02:17 PM Reply Like
  • Tales From The Future
    , contributor
    Comments (4954) | Send Message
     
    Renault-Nissan executed on the same vertical integration (including recyling and reuse of spent batteries for stationary use later on) since 2009 - years before TSLA. They have now have three giant battery factories on each continent for their LEAF car.

     

    What's so unique about Tesla's plan? I don't see it.

     

    The headache was on Renault-Nissan since they had to write down money on these investmetns (LEAF sales took off slower than expected back in 2011 and 2012).

     

    Car companies invest billions of USD each year. Any of them can start building battery factories and follow Nissan and Tesla if they see a growing market for EVs.
    24 Feb, 02:38 PM Reply Like
  • Ford Prefect 1969
    , contributor
    Comments (2282) | Send Message
     
    Renault and Nissan are comparatively clueless about both EVs and batteries. Could not imagine them chaining a lightbulb, let alone the face of the auto industry. Tesla is rather more interesting in that regard.
    24 Feb, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • Tales From The Future
    , contributor
    Comments (4954) | Send Message
     
    "Renault and Nissan are comparatively clueless about both EVs and batteries"

     

    Check the worldwide EV sales stats. Renault-Nissan are the EV leaders by a wide margin - and their EV car model portfolio will increase in the coming months.

     

    Even so, (battery only) EVs remain a hard sell beyond niches for the time being.
    24 Feb, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • Dan Fichana
    , contributor
    Comments (1883) | Send Message
     
    Nissan and renault also has a head start vs Tesla.
    Nissan started delivery in 2010;
    Tesla at 2012.

     

    Also the Leaf is like half the cost.

     

    So if you want to make an apples to apples comparison, adjust for both price and introduction.

     

    So last year Tesla delivered like 22 K units
    In 2011, Nissans first full year they delivered about the same.
    24 Feb, 03:39 PM Reply Like
  • bubba1979
    , contributor
    Comments (158) | Send Message
     
    Its not unique, but the question is execution.

     

    Nissan built too soon, before there was demand. They also ignored nay sayers like tesla that they needed liquid conditioning to sell nationwide, then handled premature battery capacity reduction in ariona poorly. Can Nissan/Renault get things on track in the next couple of years? They have the engineers and the money, but it is questionable if management will execute well. They have their dealers and the versa, altima, etc to consider. I do hope they do well, and get the leaf a better design with longer range.

     

    There is definitely room for nissan and Tesla to both do well here, with nissan selling the lower cost shorter range vehicles and tesla selling longer range more premium performance bevs. In fact if both companies do well they may help each other penetrate beyond the initial adopter market.
    24 Feb, 03:45 PM Reply Like
  • David at Imperial Beach
    , contributor
    Comments (4198) | Send Message
     
    The point of the gigafactory isn't vertical integration. Tesla will have partners in the gigafactory. They aren't cutting any of their suppliers out here. The fact of the matter is that the Gen III will require as many cells as all other lithium ion battery factories combined, and then some, plus the ability to recycle batteries.

     

    If you fail to see the uniqueness of Tesla, that's a personal problem.
    24 Feb, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • Dan Fichana
    , contributor
    Comments (1883) | Send Message
     
    I completely agree, Nissan messed up by trying to cut costs with air cooling the batteries.
    They thought they could get away with it, they can't LMO is a coin toss, the erred on the cost savings side.

     

    Just a thought. Since Nissan hobbled the Leaf so much (low range, odd look), it now has the reputation of being a low end EV. The question is will that reputation live on. It's pure economics, you start off high end, build a reputation and work your way down.

     

    Imagine if Tata motors started, (started NOT Bought), a higher end brand, it would take them decades because people would associate Tata with the little cars
    24 Feb, 07:50 PM Reply Like
  • greenie1
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    From your comment, just wit couple of different words: "(Car) Phone companies invest billions of USD each year. Any of them can start building smartphone (battery factories) and follow Apple (Tesla, Nissan) if they see a growing market for smartphones (EVs)"

     

    ...and you are so right...the problem is: they don't see it! (as Microsoft didn't see it, as Nokia didn't see it, as any other archaic-slow-moving-gi... didn't see it) and that is why they will fail! Tesla wont.
    24 Feb, 08:22 PM Reply Like
  • chipdoctor
    , contributor
    Comments (909) | Send Message
     
    Not sure I agree with this, as Nissan' pouch battery was a better solution than the 18650 cell at its time of introduction...

     

    I also believe that Nissan created the first <$30K EV, which Tesla is still working on.
    24 Feb, 09:12 PM Reply Like
  • chipdoctor
    , contributor
    Comments (909) | Send Message
     
    Air cooling is actually the smarter method (lighter, lower cost, no concerns about loss of coolant) though lithium chemistry needs to catch up.

     

    You only need coolant when you are pumping in power at a 135KW rate.
    24 Feb, 09:25 PM Reply Like
  • GeoffHiker
    , contributor
    Comments (97) | Send Message
     
    Tales From The Future: Nissan has an EV and there is one in the parking lot where I work. It's not good enough for me, but I give them credit for making one of a handful of viable EVs for some of the people.
    24 Feb, 10:14 PM Reply Like
  • bubba1979
    , contributor
    Comments (158) | Send Message
     
    chip doctor, Nissan never pumps in power at 135 kw but experienced accelerated decrease of battery capacity in warm weather places.

     

    Nissan also chose a pack smaller than most US consumers desire. I don't know whether they will choose to improve the chemistry for hotter temperatures and/or add liquid condiioning. After a false start, telling customers they were screwed, nissan did offer to replace batteries that lost more than 30% capacity in less than 5 years. Definitely increasing pack size and changing the battery/cooling system to handle heat better can help leaf sales. I think more leaf sales may actually improve tesla sales, not decrease them. The cars are quite different, and more happy bev owners the better word of mouth will be.
    25 Feb, 01:50 AM Reply Like
  • Tales From The Future
    , contributor
    Comments (4954) | Send Message
     
    "If you fail to see the uniqueness of Tesla, that's a personal problem."

     

    Each TSLA car needs a much bigger battery because the company only produces long-range EVs, Nissan-Renault can equip many more of their cars with their smaller factories. Besides, Nissan's plants have idle space.

     

    Yes, I fail to see what's unique on the battery side of things. But let's await more details coming this week...
    25 Feb, 04:22 AM Reply Like
  • bubba1979
    , contributor
    Comments (158) | Send Message
     
    Tesla chose big pack/liquid cooling/safety through electronics. This allows them to use lower priced cells in their batteries.

     

    Nissan chose more expensive cells but removed some of the system costs outside the battery.

     

    As kwh/car increases the more sense that Tesla's direction makes sense, minimizing the cost of the system. Nissan's approach was that batteries will stay small, not working as much on the system. Can Nissan change? Ofcourse they can.

     

    If the "designed for car" battery cells have breakthroughs, tesla's modular sysem allows them to switch. There is not a moat though. Car companies like Nissan have long development cycles, and dealer networks that often fight change. The moat really is that old line car companies often act like elephants changing directions slowly.

     

    Nissan/Renault made some bad decissions and bad execution on the leaf. They can turn it around, but I don't think they will do it quickly. They likely need to fire some people and change their product update model.
    25 Feb, 11:25 AM Reply Like
  • aaronw2
    , contributor
    Comments (187) | Send Message
     
    Nissan's batteries suck compared to Tesla's. They have much lower energy density and have poor battery management which is why people living in hot climates are losing a lot of capacity (up to 40% capacity lost in places like Arizona).

     

    Tesla's batteries are far better in terms of reliability and energy storage and it has been estimated that already Tesla is paying a lot less per KWH than Nissan is for their Leaf battery.
    2 Mar, 01:40 AM Reply Like
  • aaronw2
    , contributor
    Comments (187) | Send Message
     
    Tell that to the Leaf owners in Arizona who have lost 40% of their capacity in two years! Everyone else is doing liquid cooling because air cooling is not sufficient. It might be lighter and cheaper, but it certainly is not better.
    2 Mar, 01:42 AM Reply Like
  • aaronw2
    , contributor
    Comments (187) | Send Message
     
    Even 5 years for 30% loss is unacceptable. Tesla's batteries are warrantied for 8 years and from what I have been able to learn and from conversations with people who work at Tesla they will likely last a lot longer than that.
    2 Mar, 01:44 AM Reply Like
  • Captain Pike
    , contributor
    Comments (771) | Send Message
     
    I don't think it's a great idea to spend billions on a factory for batteries. What happens if the tech changes drastically to make batteries from liquid material or carbon nano stuff. Tesla should press panasonic et al to expand their operations so that Tesla is not so exposed if some discovery pans out to produce them some other way.
    24 Feb, 02:17 PM Reply Like
  • cvmiller85
    , contributor
    Comments (9) | Send Message
     
    A valid point but with all their patents (pending) concerning different battery types, I am sure they will build the plant in a way that makes transitions to newer tech much easier and less costly.
    24 Feb, 02:38 PM Reply Like
  • Tales From The Future
    , contributor
    Comments (4954) | Send Message
     
    "What happens if the tech changes drastically..."

     

    A good point I have been making for some time. Unfortunately no battery supplier wants to bear these risks either given the size and investments needed - all car manufacturers entering the EV mass-market are basically forced to build huge factories sooner or later (Nissan was the first to do so a few years ago, Tesla is only following the same strategy).
    24 Feb, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • awakeinwa
    , contributor
    Comments (308) | Send Message
     
    if the past two decades is any indicator, battery tech won't change all that much. Only superconductivity has a worse track record than battery tech; at least tech can show high single digit gains every couple of years, and all that is what Tesla if factoring in.
    24 Feb, 03:48 PM Reply Like
  • bubba1979
    , contributor
    Comments (158) | Send Message
     
    We don't know yet if tesla is partnering with anyone. Panasonic does not seem to be making the effort that tesla thinks a supplier needs to make. It is affraid of a battery shortfall. If panasonic is willing to be a partner in factory, or samsung, lg, jci, it may be better. The patents aren't worth much on the current cells tesla is using, but we don't know what tech they are actually going to build.
    24 Feb, 03:48 PM Reply Like
  • David at Imperial Beach
    , contributor
    Comments (4198) | Send Message
     
    Tesla has to commit to a particular battery technology anyway. The car's design basically starts with the battery pack and then works up from there. They've been keeping an eye out for better technologies that might become available, but first on the Roadster and now on the Model S, they keep coming back to the same technology with just a few tweaks, so there is little chance that they will be caught by surprise.
    24 Feb, 04:17 PM Reply Like
  • Locked Down Investments
    , contributor
    Comments (1362) | Send Message
     
    Tesla already has a lower per kWh cost than Nissan thanks to their use of commodity cells.
    With the gigafactory literally building everything in house (lithium hydroxide, cobalt, aluminium, etc in one end = battery cell out the other end) they will have the lowest per kWh cost in the world by quite a measure.
    Nissan went the large format battery way which is costly in more ways than one.
    Nissan also will not have nearly as much integration in terms of raw materials being made into battery grade components in house.

     

    Another note...Rockwood Lithium has the ONLY active lithium mine in the USA in SilverPeak, Nevada. How much do you want to bet Tesla sources its lithium directly from them just a few hours down the road from the gigafactory?
    The Rockwood plant is also brine based lithium (not hard rock lithium, like most other North American deposits) which is the cheapest to extract.

     

    You see then how Tesla will save in every way possible in terms of overall $/kWh...Nissan is light years behind this way of thinking, and forget about all the others in big auto.
    24 Feb, 07:07 PM Reply Like
  • Locked Down Investments
    , contributor
    Comments (1362) | Send Message
     
    Battery tech may change (they are doing amazing things in the labs around the world)...however new usually means expensive until the supply chain is optimized and it can be produced at scale large enough to be competitive with the old guard. Just look how much more lithium based AA batteries still cost when compared to the old AA alkaline batteries next time you are shopping!
    Anything new will also need to be tested for many years before an automaker will risk lives by putting it into a vehicle (remember lithium ion has nearly 25 years of commercial use under its belt).
    I am sure Tesla is testing many new technologies as we speak...however I am willing to bet that lithium ion dominates for another 8-10 years at least.
    If anyone can foresee what tech might take over from lithium ion it will be Tesla. If they can I imagine they will design the gigafactory to allow for a transition to this new technology in the future.
    24 Feb, 07:23 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (8008) | Send Message
     
    "A good point I have been making for some time."

     

    No, it's a weak point you've been making for some time, and I've been correcting you on it just as long. I'll do it again. A cell line is not completely chemistry specific. End of story, move on, try and come up with some other non issue to harp on repeatedly.
    24 Feb, 08:35 PM Reply Like
  • Keisuke11
    , contributor
    Comments (23) | Send Message
     
    I would say if there is any drastic change in the battery manufacturing that is Tesla's gigafactory. If they can reduce cost of batteries by 30 to 40% as Musk said, it is "drastic change". Tesla is about to become the one of the biggest manufactures for batteries as well as electric cars. Yes, there huge risk. That's why no one else do it and Tesla has to do it by itself. Well technically with partners. I think it is the risk worth taking. Besides, it's Elon Musk. He knows EVERYTHING.
    24 Feb, 08:58 PM Reply Like
  • surferbroadband
    , contributor
    Comments (1712) | Send Message
     
    teddyg101, if you are correct, then this gigafactory will be very big, in terms of production and lowering the cost of the car. The Model E would look like anything, but a pipe dream.

     

    And that is very logical.
    24 Feb, 09:13 PM Reply Like
  • Tales From The Future
    , contributor
    Comments (4954) | Send Message
     
    JRP3: "A cell line is not completely chemistry specific."

     

    Of course they can readjust the production (it won't be free).

     

    But in this scenario you have the first years worth of cars on the market with older battery tech. The resale value of these existing cars drops a lot (more change than in ICE cars where you had 100+ years of refinements).

     

    Any TSLA competitor (big car companies can invest billions each year, see their budgets) can directly start their factory with newer battery tech as it progresses, let's say by 2020.

     

    You don't see the many risks of an early mover (vs competitors with big pockets) building the biggest battery factory in the world...and given the nature of the car industry TSLA can't achieve "escape velocity" in the first years against competitors. Even if they double car production from now on, they will only have 1-2% marketshare by 2020. This is not disruption as in biotech or IT sectors (the iPhone and other analogies people have been trying to make for TSLA), you can't disrupt the car market overnight.

     

    The same issues that Nissan is facing now (early mover back in 2009 with battery factories) will also apply to the Tesla factory in a few years. Battery tech changes, there could even be a breakthrough like Li-Air in a few years...

     

    If it were so easy, Nissan could just pour new chemistry into their batteries in existing plants tomorrow and have the best range.
    25 Feb, 04:32 AM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (8008) | Send Message
     
    Come on tf, you have to do better than that. Basically you're trying to claim that by having the newest most advanced battery plant in 2017-2018 will put Tesla at a disadvantage, compared to all the other battery plants that are much older. That can't make any sense, even to you. Your reasoning would have no one ever building a new plant or production line because someday it won't be cutting edge. Ridiculous, to say the least. Tesla will of course build flexibility into the production lines, and cell construction methods are unlikely to radically change in the forseable future. Even with chemistry changes and manufacturing improvements cells today are still built much the same way as they were 10 years ago. The mixers, laminators, extruders, sealers, spray depositors, etc. just don't really care what chemistry they are working with.
    Your other weak argument is that a 200 mile range EV will suddenly lose value if a few years later a 300 mile range EV appears, yet it's simply not true. That's the benefit of Tesla putting a 200 mile range floor on their products means they will always be a useful vehicle, unlike all the offerings from all of their competition. Again, the very thing you try to paint as a negative for Tesla is actually much more of a negative for their competition.
    25 Feb, 08:28 AM Reply Like
  • Locked Down Investments
    , contributor
    Comments (1362) | Send Message
     
    Well it ain't called a "giga" factory for nothing. I think the size of it will truly boggle the mind when announced.
    With the huge up move today Tesla should do a capital raise right away to support giga factory/Gen III expansion expenses!
    SolarCity should do one as well...take advantage of the wild market while you can I say!
    25 Feb, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • joenjensen
    , contributor
    Comments (705) | Send Message
     
    Nah....If anyone is following anyone, it's Nissan, Toyota, and others are following Tesla, Tesla is and always will be the leader, and as a matter of fact these companies are leasing the motors, and technology from Tesla Motors..
    25 Feb, 09:30 PM Reply Like
  • Frank Greenhalgh
    , contributor
    Comments (1841) | Send Message
     
    Musk expects battery sales to be another profit source.
    The Giga factory would supply batteries to the entire auto industry.
    24 Feb, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • Tales From The Future
    , contributor
    Comments (4954) | Send Message
     
    Check the operating margins on large battery plants and EV suppliers (Samsung SDI, LG Chem, Panasonic...). A very low-margin business.

     

    Even at 30 GWh Tesla only has enough supply for their own Model E cars (and S and X in future iterations, although that would create a single supply stream risk again).
    24 Feb, 02:47 PM Reply Like
  • Tom McClennan
    , contributor
    Comments (38) | Send Message
     
    @TFTF

     

    "What's so unique about Tesla's plan? I don't see it."

     

    Never mind, plenty of others do. The world would be boring if we all thought the same.

     

    But based on your previous 2,700 negative comments, how is that short position working for you ?
    24 Feb, 02:51 PM Reply Like
  • Tales From The Future
    , contributor
    Comments (4954) | Send Message
     
    I just tried to point out Nissan-Renault was executing a similar plan. There are big risks involved (we will soon learn how much cap ex is needed). Long investors only seem to see the upside at the moment. I still hold my short from $198.
    24 Feb, 03:19 PM Reply Like
  • dennisg13
    , contributor
    Comments (129) | Send Message
     
    Tom-Thanks for saying what is on a lot of our minds.
    24 Feb, 05:33 PM Reply Like
  • Andre1283
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    You've been short tesla since they spiked up into the mid $60. How's that working out for ya?!
    24 Feb, 10:43 PM Reply Like
  • Miro Kefurt
    , contributor
    Comments (670) | Send Message
     
    It is really inconsequential if TESLA will ever build anything giga, just the news of it is pushing (TSLA) into giga territory, so all news is good for the share holders that is as long as they do not get too greedy and sell their TSLA at profit.
    24 Feb, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • embryorambo
    , contributor
    Comments (246) | Send Message
     
    The shorts are hurting now, but just wait till TSLA craters and wait you forgot to sell your shares and now can only unload them for 94 dollars instead of 217-Eventually fundamentals and realistic valuations will matter
    24 Feb, 04:29 PM Reply Like
  • chickensevil
    , contributor
    Comments (679) | Send Message
     
    "fundamentals" is just another form of Technical Analysis... In case you haven't noticed, this stock is riding 100% on technicals, and reacting as you would expect it to.

     

    At some point, either the company grows into it's valuation or the valuation drops to match the company. Your guess is as good as mine on which way it goes. If you are willing to hold a short for the next 100 years, I am sure at SOME point you will make a profit...
    24 Feb, 05:07 PM Reply Like
  • Surf Dog
    , contributor
    Comments (825) | Send Message
     
    I won't forget.
    24 Feb, 06:48 PM Reply Like
  • GeoffHiker
    , contributor
    Comments (97) | Send Message
     
    embryorambo: I have made a lot of money buying stocks that are growing fast and heavily shorted - thanks! I don't short anything. Of all the companies you could short, why would you choose a fast growing company like TSLA with a best in class product, impeccable execution, run by an executive with a proven track record? This isn't a dot-com bubble internet advertising company - Tesla is making products that are going out the door that can't be duplicated by anyone else (like best car!). There are many pharmaceutical companies that have had their stock prices go up like TSLA, but don't have any significant revenues, and still don't have final FDA approval for the thing that stock holders are excited about. If TSLA goes down to $94, I'd still be ahead if I held it.
    24 Feb, 10:37 PM Reply Like
  • embryorambo
    , contributor
    Comments (246) | Send Message
     
    @Geoffhiker-
    Lets compare our returns chief. Then you can go have a slice of humble pie
    25 Feb, 12:11 AM Reply Like
  • GeoffHiker
    , contributor
    Comments (97) | Send Message
     
    embryorambo: Last year I was up 88%. This year I'm up 50% as of Monday's close. I currently own GTAT, NOR, SCTY, SPWR, and TSLA. Again I have to say TSLA is the wrong company to short. If I did short stocks, I'd look for companies that haven't put much product out the door, like ICPT. ICPT had $410K in revenue Q3 and has a market cap of over $7B. There are a bunch of other pharmaceuticals just like it. Most of them will probably crash.
    25 Feb, 09:08 AM Reply Like
  • Pavlof
    , contributor
    Comments (174) | Send Message
     
    This will never happen. John Peterson said that Tesla couldn't do it right here on SA and he's a lawyer!
    24 Feb, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • natelwt
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    The average consumer that drives a 20 mpg car 12,000 miles per year, I did, you can save $2000 per year on gas, electricity is extra cheap. I lease my nissan leaf for $210 per month or $2,520 annually. Im $520 off essentially a free car.... Electrics are the future. Period. In oregon, washington, idaho its driving a waterfall powered car..... Why isnt everyone supportive...tesla is trying to change the world in a majorly positive way! Thats worth support with your checkbook, which amounts to successful business longterm... Price that in
    24 Feb, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • Monja
    , contributor
    Comments (66) | Send Message
     
    yes a lot of people fail to see the bigger picture or think about it from a consumer's point of view, luckily there are enough of us who understand what really needs to be done (and is being done!)
    24 Feb, 08:51 PM Reply Like
  • SharkDude
    , contributor
    Comments (639) | Send Message
     
    Call me when TSLA makes a real profit not pro-forma. I understand making your own batteries in the long run will be great but the company has $200 million in cash and want to build a $1 Billion dollar factory. ok. thank god wall street short squeezed this thing to 200+. They will all be trying to take the credit when they sell elon on doing a secondary offering. Who will he pick? mmmmmmm
    24 Feb, 04:39 PM Reply Like
  • chickensevil
    , contributor
    Comments (679) | Send Message
     
    I'm sure it will be with GS as it has been for all the others. I am willing to bet they are obligated to continue to do it through them at this point.

     

    If you notice in the CC everyone was told to only ask 2 questions, then GS gets on the line and asks like 6... because the own Elon and they own Tesla.
    24 Feb, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • Ron Reed
    , contributor
    Comments (284) | Send Message
     
    You may want to check your facts there, GS is #6 in line of holdings at a mere 4.15, Susquehanna International Group, LLP at 11.865 and FMR, LLC at 11.618 hold the most. BAC at 4.39 and MS at 3.85.

     

    Edit to note, that is in millions of shares not percent.
    24 Feb, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • Monja
    , contributor
    Comments (66) | Send Message
     
    quite a few people asked more than 2 questions on the conference call and by the way Tesla has about 800 million in cash and have gross margins above 20%
    24 Feb, 08:55 PM Reply Like
  • awakeinwa
    , contributor
    Comments (308) | Send Message
     
    of course risks abound. Innovation means you're going where nobody else has gone before. Tesla has executed flawlessly better than any other real world company around. They have delivered as promised whereas naysayers just state the obvious - that risks abound. Longs have confidence a founder like Elon (Jobs, Zuckerberg) will nail those risks because they will persist resisting quarterly pressures fulfilling their vision and legacy with exceptional tactics and most importantly strategy.
    24 Feb, 07:24 PM Reply Like
  • jstack6
    , contributor
    Comments (58) | Send Message
     
    Arizona would be a top choice. No earth quakes, or snow and ice. Lots of Sun for Solar energy, TOD rates Intel influence and 60 other chip makers. Lots of land and ASU with 62,000 students and top rated faculty to provide research and development.
    It also has a lower cost of living and business than California yet is right next door. Intel got great tax incentives to expand here and I'm sure Tesla would get the same.
    Arizona imports every drop of OIL it uses. PV and EV go together. Come on over Elon. AZ could be the first area to allow Tesla sales direct too.
    24 Feb, 08:38 PM Reply Like
  • SucramRenrut
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    IMO Tesla is the first car company to behave like a technology company rather than a manufacturing company, hence the difficulty comparing it to Ford and the like. Also, I was in CA recently and saw the Tesla. It is a beautiful car and means that those who don't want to sacrifice looks to drive an ev can satisfy both their ego and social responsibility. That is what Prius and Leaf can't hope to do.
    24 Feb, 10:39 PM Reply Like
  • illioilli
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    Is Nissan planning on investing in building a new EV platform any time soon (i.e., not using the crappy Versa platform)?
    25 Feb, 03:01 AM Reply Like
  • alext1379
    , contributor
    Comments (706) | Send Message
     
    Everyone forgets the Koreans are masters of stealing our technology and then killing our companies with it by selling identical products for a fraction of the cost, thanks to no R&D costs and free money from their government.

     

    It wouldn't surprise me if Hyundai/Samsung chaebols are just waiting to see what Musk's final plans are and then ram through a factory for batteries and immitation Teslas within the year.

     

    As someone above pointed out, technology changes fast.
    Lithium ion is the "golden" boy now but there are plans in the works for a new type of battery that is far more efficient.
    Currently batteries need to act as storage and transmitters of power, the new technology relegates batteries to mere storage entities with 1 transmitter rather than having transmitters in every battery. Its new but currently in development and the storage containers store many more times the energy than current batteries.
    25 Feb, 01:13 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (8008) | Send Message
     
    Anything likely to power an EV within the next 10 or so years is going to be lithium based.
    25 Feb, 01:54 PM Reply Like
  • Locked Down Investments
    , contributor
    Comments (1362) | Send Message
     
    Agreed...what is going on with TSLA today!?! No news anywhere it seems!?!
    25 Feb, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • a alto
    , contributor
    Comments (150) | Send Message
     
    Hmm , giga factory partner ? Apple maybe ?
    25 Feb, 10:14 PM Reply Like
DJIA (DIA) S&P 500 (SPY)
ETF Tools
Find the right ETFs for your portfolio:
Seeking Alpha's new ETF Hub
ETF Investment Guide:
Table of Contents | One Page Summary
Read about different ETF Asset Classes:
ETF Selector