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Ukraine pro-Russian demonstrators refuse to stand down

  • Pro-Russian protesters, many of whom are armed, have refused to vacate administrative buildings they have occupied in eastern Ukraine despite an agreement between the government, Russia, the U.S. and EU to "de-escalate" the crisis.
  • Under the deal, the buildings were to be vacated and armed militias disbanded.
  • Despite the continued standoff, Russia's Micex index is +2.2% in response to the agreement. The USD-RUB is +0.1% at $35.568.
  • More on Ukraine
  • ETFs: RSX, RUSL, ERUS, RUSS, RSXJ, RBL, GUR, ESR, RUDR
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Comments (73)
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1591) | Send Message
     
    It is the work of OSCE to manage the de-escalation in Ukraine crisis including demobilization of all groups in the West and Eastern part of Ukraine. It is simplistic to talk about pro-Russians without also talking about far-Right pro coup group in Kiev. There must be rules, negotiations and no shouting marches. This will take some time. The market is more rational than the innuendos in the media and been buying it since 3~4 days ago.
    18 Apr 2014, 07:52 AM Reply Like
  • Moon Kil Woong
    , contributor
    Comments (11495) | Send Message
     
    Regardless of who it is, when one group strongarms government and public places with arms, they must be disbanded if not arrested and convicted. What one proposes when they support do nothing is anarchy and the eventual destruction of the state. If this happened in Russia or the US these guys would not just be disbanded, a good many would be dead and held as terrorists (which they are).

     

    So what's the rational you are talking about. Rationally doing nothing is in support of pro anything groups who want to do whatever they choose whether try to merge with Russia, kill Jews, loot and disturb the peace, and/or frighten everyone who isn't of the same mind as them. The madness must stop. I suggest teargas, water cannons, and handcuffs. Unfortunately, the rogues that have taken public places will start shooting and blame their heinous terrorist actions on the very people they try to kill.

     

    It is a shame the US and West watch on too scared even to sanction Putin's bank accounts.
    19 Apr 2014, 09:40 PM Reply Like
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1591) | Send Message
     
    @moon

     

    Your suggestion shows that you have little or no clues what is going on in Ukraine just rehearsing what you picked up in the media. What is the real meaning of "terrorist" the word everyone bandy about these days? You need to clearly understand situation before offering solutions. Russians that died in the millions fighting for for the Jews against the Nazis would now issue them registration cards ? This is the most childish provocation I have ever heard of. We in Europe know the political and ideological leanings of the far right group in Kiev. They have previously written to Moslems and foreign students to register under many guises. It is not only in Ukraine but in most European countries. You remember what happened in Norway massacre ? People tend to forget.
    On Ukraine the agreement is to disband all non-state actors in all public buildings. In Kiev and other western cities such groups are occupying public buildings including parliament till today. Have you ever asked this question..where are the Congressmen/women from the east/south Ukraine? They are constitute about 35% of the number? They are barred ( prevented) from sitting by these groups. Then again who constitute the so-called government? Is there anyone prominent from the East/South of Ukraine in this so-called government ? What are their views ? What about Ukraine Armed Forces high command? Is there anything like this and where is their current loyalty ? Finally do you remember that the West instigated this problems ? Western politicians flooded Ukraine to demonstrate with the Maidans well before the coup. They also supported the coup even after signing agreement with the former government just for the fact that the former government refused to sign trade pact with EU. In any case what would West do now? Go to war with Russia because of Ukraine? Destroy strategic relationship between Russia and USA just because of Ukraine ? Who is Putin? Is he Russia ? Do you really believe most Russians dont support what their government is doing ? Do you believe Russians are blockheads ? Yes we know from History how Texas (Crimea) seceded from Mexico ( Ukraine) to join USA ( Russia) in 1845(2014) but when Mexico tried to fight back USA invaded Mexico city to also grab California citing American blood lol I do not think history will repeat here. Russia will never annex Eastern/Southern Ukraine or any other territory. Contrary to what many people believe KGB ( Russians) orchestrated the breakup of USSR. Russians are far more homogeneous and stronger in the current setup albeit challenges of transition.
    So before you make comment you need to avail yourself with correct facts just as it is in the market than listening to CNBC lol No one makes money trading what the CNBC anchor says
    20 Apr 2014, 06:43 AM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (2015) | Send Message
     
    "Regardless of who it is, when one group strongarms government and public places with arms, they must be disbanded if not arrested and convicted."

     

    You mean, just like the current Ukrainian government got to power?

     

    So what you're saying is the current government should treat some guys to be criminals... for doing the exact same thing they did themselves in the first place? Sorry but that's pure and simple discrimination.

     

    If these guys are criminals then so are the Kiev's protesters who took the government by force, through bloodshed and violence. We can't apply the law to one group and give an amnesty to another group for very similar situations.

     

    Both Western and Eastern Ukrainians should follow the same law and be given the same rights.
    21 Apr 2014, 03:21 AM Reply Like
  • saratogahawk
    , contributor
    Comments (2410) | Send Message
     
    I'll bet that John Kerry just runs right over and spanks these bad people.
    18 Apr 2014, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • Stone Fox Capital
    , contributor
    Comments (6814) | Send Message
     
    yeah, I don't want to hear how Kerry is wasting time to talking to the Russians anymore. The Ukranians handed Putin Crimea without hardly firing a shot so thats the major problem and not much the US can do if it isn't going to fight for its own land.
    18 Apr 2014, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • chivas
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    As long as Russia stays out of Ukraine the markets will move slowly but surly up.
    18 Apr 2014, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    chivas

     

    Russia is in Ukraine, its been confirmed. See my new blog post about "Why Ukraine Matters". It will open your eyes.

     

    Russia confirmed its troops were behind the Crimea coup, and are on the ground in Eastern Ukraine as we speak.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...
    18 Apr 2014, 10:39 AM Reply Like
  • MLP Trader
    , contributor
    Comments (945) | Send Message
     
    I think the markets are surly too.
    18 Apr 2014, 10:45 AM Reply Like
  • Sakelaris
    , contributor
    Comments (1674) | Send Message
     
    By all means, Matthew, you head right over to Kiev and join the right-wing groups there. Hand out sweets there, as our Assistant Secy of State, Potty Mouth Nuland, might not be able to be there all the time. Hand out your own money to the corrupt Ukrainians also; we US taxpayers have already seen five billion dollars of our money spent "on the ground" there recently.
    18 Apr 2014, 04:10 PM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (2015) | Send Message
     
    Now, if only the USA & the EU were as honest as Putin and confirmed they were the ones behind the Kiev coup... What's taking them so long? Many people already know it anyway.
    18 Apr 2014, 08:34 PM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    Sakelaris

     

    You will be one of the first to complain about losing money because we didn't do anything.
    18 Apr 2014, 09:08 PM Reply Like
  • Moon Kil Woong
    , contributor
    Comments (11495) | Send Message
     
    Russia is not Ukraine and Russia needs Ukraine which was once called the breadbasket of the USSR. They should think twice before trying to cut off oil and gas supplies. Low energy makes people suffer. Inflation and foot shortages creates revolutions.

     

    As for those saying Ukraine should stand up and fight, the issue is with what and really? If it turns into an all out war it will not last more than even Iraq. The dream is that humanity has moved beyond tolerating the wanton ambitions of countries trying to extend their borders and territories by force and have adopted rules of law and order. Russia's taking of Crimea has proven that nations don't stand by what they say but rather cower in the face of aggression the exact same way Europe turned tail and ran when Hitler did the same thing.

     

    This is not the first time Putin has obliterated the freedoms of a country and won't be the last simply because Obama and others offer no resistance to aggression. If you think things will just settle down and he dare not do anything else because we will freeze a million more in bank accounts, you are a fool.
    19 Apr 2014, 09:49 PM Reply Like
  • Fyiadvisor
    , contributor
    Comments (107) | Send Message
     
    The situation is that we have a domestic separatist movement, which is a global phenomena. We see Catalonia trying to break away from Spain. We see Scotland trying to break away from Britain.

     

    And all of them are arguing about the same thing: ‘If there is not enough money to go around, then I would rather run things my way and have my own independent location.’ By the way, Venice, in Italy, has also said, ‘We want to be independent of Italy.’

     

    So the Ukrainians in the east, in Crimea, basically said, ‘Look, this country is so indebted we can’t see straight. And here we are, one of the biggest food producers in the world, but our food prices are rising so dramatically that we want independence from this situation. So we want to leave Ukraine, and with our new country we want a closer alignment with Russia.’ The Russians say, ‘Well, look, they are 95 percent Russian and it’s not our fault they want to join with us.’

     

    So where else do we see identical situations? You see it in Transnistria, in Moldova, you see it in parts of Georgia, you see it in Lithuania, and you see it in Latvia. And I think in all of these locations we are potentially going to see local politics say, ‘We want to separate from the government we are connected to, we want to become independent, and once we’ve done that we are aligning with the Russians.’

     

    And the Russians, of course, are going to support this and provide all kinds of things for the population to improve their ability to do this. And let’s keep in mind that the Russians are raising Crimean salaries and wages to equal Russian levels.

     

    So what’s happening is the west of Ukraine, the old Ukraine, they are getting poorer and poorer, with lower incomes and a lower standard of living. And the east, which has declared independence and joined with Russia, they are getting richer every day. So there is a big incentive for this phenomena to carry on to other countries.”
    20 Apr 2014, 12:31 AM Reply Like
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1591) | Send Message
     
    Use of economic warfare will ultimately kill the businesses. See the costs on CSCO, IBM, FB..many US technology companies due to NSA. The costs will be apparent in the next 5 to 10 years. Now we are using Visa/Mastercard and banks? That is dumb idea. These guys will also develop long term strategy to ever avoid this kind of nonsense going forward even US allies as alliances have always switched in history. Again on Crimea better get cause and effect right. Crimea "annexation" is still 100 fold better than liberation of Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan with destruction of millions of lives still ongoing for decades only God knows when it stops. Again you will never annex people that dont want you in this modern world. I have not seen any strong opposition from Crimea campaigning against it. Or are they not able top go on exile and talk to CNN? lol
    20 Apr 2014, 06:52 AM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (2015) | Send Message
     
    It seems to me that many people have their judgment impaired by a strange sense of Russophobia.

     

    2 revolutions have taken place in Ukraine this year:
    - The first, by Western Ukrainians is considered to be perfectly legal and democratic, even if an armed group spread chaos, mayhem and spilled a lot of blood to storm in the parliament and take control of Ukraine;
    - The second, by Eastern Ukrainians who don't feel represented by a government that considers them to be outcasts, is considered a terrorist act.

     

    How come one revolution is seen as legal and the other one as illegal?

     

    Sorry, this is pure and simple racism. You might as well have separated Ukrainians by the colour of their eyes.
    21 Apr 2014, 03:26 AM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    It's pro-democracy vs. pro-socialism.
    21 Apr 2014, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • Sakelaris
    , contributor
    Comments (1674) | Send Message
     
    The right to self-determination is an important right and it should not be denied because we believe a given population wanting self-determination might be more socialistic than us.

     

    Indeed, much of Europe, including NATO members, has embraced various degrees of socialism.
    21 Apr 2014, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    It all comes down to their roots in the Monarchy.
    21 Apr 2014, 12:11 PM Reply Like
  • designshoe
    , contributor
    Comments (880) | Send Message
     
    let see how RSX, Ruble/10Y responds to more bad Ukraine news in the weeks to come.
    the baseline scenario is that a long boring stalemate will happen between the West and Russia. all the minute details don't matter anymore. my sense is the markets will now look forward to a russian recession(lack there of) and see if there is any relief.
    18 Apr 2014, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • Zoltan Ban
    , contributor
    Comments (701) | Send Message
     
    Perhaps they should have reserved a seat at the Geneva meeting for them as well. I don't know why everyone simply assumed that Putin controls them like puppets. They are rightly worried about the nationalist government in Kiev, therefore it is understandable why they are reluctant to relinquish the control they gained in past week.
    18 Apr 2014, 09:46 AM Reply Like
  • Luben Stanev
    , contributor
    Comments (27) | Send Message
     
    Are you serious?
    It seems You have not experience with totalitarian regimes as I have.

     

    Of course these gangs in East Ukraine is controlled by Putin. He already confirmed that the coup in Crimea have been organized by RUSSIAN FORCEs.
    18 Apr 2014, 04:14 PM Reply Like
  • Moon Kil Woong
    , contributor
    Comments (11495) | Send Message
     
    Do you even read history? I suppose you supported Russia when it took over parts of Georgia.

     

    I agree with the Guardian, "Those who justify Russia's occupation of the Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia stubbornly ignore the fact that largely due to direct Russian intervention, the ethnic Georgian majorities were cleansed from their homelands."

     

    The simple fact is everyone is trying to appease Russia in a belief its good for their pocketbook rather than realizing it will lead to bigger and bigger conflicts and an eventual resumption of a real cold war with millions of non-Russians becoming victims of the aggression. If Russia gets away taking Ukraine much like Hitler took over Eastern Europe the results are liable to be very similar. Appeasement simply doesn't work.
    19 Apr 2014, 10:02 PM Reply Like
  • Debutant
    , contributor
    Comments (2467) | Send Message
     
    Moon,

     

    I for one never supported or justified Russia's occupation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but I also believed that the whole thing there had been started by and was the mistake of the then Georgian president Sakashvili who in his wetdream thought, spoke and acted as if Georgia was in the EU.

     

    I never supported Russia's annexation of Crimea, but I believe that the whole thing there has been started by and was the mistake of the protestors in Kiev who overthrew a democratically government with support from the USA but without thinking the domestic (majority of voters who had elected the overthrown government) or external (Russia) consequences of their actions.

     

    He who breaks the glass pays for it.

     

    CIA operatives won't pay, as they are no longer at Kiev's Maidan.

     

    The CNBC won't pay, as they moved their camera crew already from Kiev's Maidan first to the search for the Malaysian plane and then to wherever the event du jour may be for the next 48 hours.

     

    Sakhasvili won't pay, as he moved to the USA where he lectures in a university.

     

    Crimea won't pay, as it is gone.

     

    Putin won't pay, just like Bush didn't pay for his bloody mess in Iraq.

     

    I won't pay, as I am neither Russian nor Ukrainian.

     

    The only ones left to pay for the damage are those Ukranians who replaced a democratically elected government with an unelected one, against the will of the local majority, without even thinking that what happened in Abkhazia and South Ossetia might happen in the Ukraine.
    20 Apr 2014, 06:56 AM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (2015) | Send Message
     
    Well, Moon Kil Woong, at the moment is not Russia, but the International Community that's applying to very different standards for 2 very similar situations.

     

    Western and Eastern Ukrainians should be treated equal: if the Kiev's coup is legal, then so is the proclamation of Independence of Donetsk. Otherwise, both situations should be considered as illegal.

     

    Now... saying the Kiev's coup was the will of the people and the proclamation of Independence of Donetsk is a terrorist act, that's pure and simple racism.
    21 Apr 2014, 03:34 AM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    What is racist about it?

     

    Webster's Dictionary: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race

     

    You gotta love it when White people charge racism against other white people.
    21 Apr 2014, 11:02 AM Reply Like
  • Tom Armistead
    , contributor
    Comments (5719) | Send Message
     
    The previous government was headed by one of Putin's buddies. Putin's buddies get rich by plundering the unfortunates who fall under their governance. Kleptocracy.

     

    In Ukraine, there is very little left to plunder, and now the game is about allocating the blame for the missing billions. Like any other similar incident, a lot of money is missing, and no one seems to have a clue.

     

    Rest assured, Putin knows where the money is, and who's got it. He is giving instructions to the insurgents, and the desired outcome from his point of view is that he gets to blame the IMF for the missing funds.
    18 Apr 2014, 10:40 AM Reply Like
  • Stone Fox Capital
    , contributor
    Comments (6814) | Send Message
     
    and than the US foots the bill to keep the gas flowing from Russia....
    18 Apr 2014, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    The peace deal is just Russia stalling the United States before the annexation, and catches the US in a head fake. This is so predictable, and the Obama administration falls on every banana peel Putin throws on the floor. Its laughable, we are a laughing stock.
    18 Apr 2014, 10:41 AM Reply Like
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1591) | Send Message
     
    If I may really ask this question: What is the interest of USA in this palaver? USA interests appear to be everywhere in the world where their is crisis ? Russia have overwhelming interests here just as USA interests in Canada
    18 Apr 2014, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • Tom Armistead
    , contributor
    Comments (5719) | Send Message
     
    Canada calls their own shots without the presence of disguised US troops.

     

    Putin sends in armed and masked thugs, and Ukraine doesn't get to call their own shots.
    18 Apr 2014, 02:46 PM Reply Like
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1591) | Send Message
     
    I know that Canada calls own shots for now. I also know US marshals are fighting drugs in Mexico as well. So in any case Canada got some issues with USA with some CIA operatives there..it becomes Russia or certainly British/French interests..?? I dont get it. Neighbors could be friends and enemies from time to time just as husband and wife . It is normal in life. The best approach is to encourage them to sort out issues
    18 Apr 2014, 03:17 PM Reply Like
  • alf2011
    , contributor
    Comments (505) | Send Message
     
    "What is the interest of USA in this palaver?"

     

    By annexing Crimea Russia has demonstrated that borders that have been around for 60 years don't matter. But if revising 'unfair' borders to what was 60 years ago is OK, why stop there, why not go back 70 or 80 years? With such a point of view very few countries in Europe can feel secure in their current borders. This is what Russia is playing with. And, yes, it is very scary and it matters.
    18 Apr 2014, 03:19 PM Reply Like
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1591) | Send Message
     
    Borders were recently redrawn in Yugoslavia. Likely to be redrawn in the UK , Spain and Italy soon. It was redrawn in Cyprus in the 70s. People shoud stop buying this bull crap of redrawing borders. Iraq, Libya and so on borders are not redrawn but they are better now. Iraq continually keep blood flowing like crude and we are all happy about it ..at least their borders are not redrawn lol It started in Libya and going on in Syria.
    There is nothing wrong about borders being redrawn as long as it is trhe wish of the people and lives are not necessarily foolishly lost. Borders will continue to be redrawn in history without end. That bellicose narrative of borders being redrawn is pretty foolish and attempt to pull the wool over our eyes by the political class. If I acquire my neighbors property because his own son sold his own portion to me..I will re-fence it. There is nothing wrong here. We must be rational in our thoughts in this modern time instead of calling the people of Crimea fools and nonentities. Be it known that it is impossible to occupy people that dont like you. Yes just like even being the wealthiest is no guarantee to marry the most beautiful or the girl of your choice.
    18 Apr 2014, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • Sakelaris
    , contributor
    Comments (1674) | Send Message
     
    Yes, and when it comes to tolerating border changes (Cyprus), engineering border changes (Yugoslavia) or creating new de facto borders (Kurdistan), it is the US which still holds the world lead for recent years. What's the difference?

     

    Actually, there is one difference. The border changes noted above cost many thousands of lives; thankfully so far the Ukraine losses have been far less.
    18 Apr 2014, 04:21 PM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    Leo

     

    Funny you should ask. I refer you to my blog about it above.

     

    Russian control over oil flow to 1/3 of Europe is absolutely in our interests as our economies and banking systems are interconnected.

     

    The middle east we can start to withdraw from, we found our own oil and gas, so their time in the sun is waning. However, due to environmentalist activism and extremism in our own government, we are years away from exporting oil and gas to Europe to offset the Russian threat.
    18 Apr 2014, 05:17 PM Reply Like
  • CFS
    , contributor
    Comments (12) | Send Message
     
    That made no sense...
    19 Apr 2014, 08:26 PM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    CFS

     

    You need to put the name of the person you are addressing.
    19 Apr 2014, 09:07 PM Reply Like
  • Moon Kil Woong
    , contributor
    Comments (11495) | Send Message
     
    The interest is in protecting Eastern Europe from aggression and oppression and forestalling a new cold war with a leader who wants to use force to re-create the USSR's old empire.

     

    Aside from that, the US has always tried to stand up against aggressors and totalitarian regimes from N. Korea to the Middle East. Sometimes we must simply do what's right whether its fighting countrymen to free slaves or liberating Kuwait from Saddam Hussein. It's a dirty job but Europe isn't going to do it. You are standing on the wrong side of history.
    19 Apr 2014, 10:13 PM Reply Like
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1591) | Send Message
     
    I didnt see USA fighting for Egyptians recently lol A legit govenment was overthrown and President thrown into jail
    20 Apr 2014, 06:57 AM Reply Like
  • Debutant
    , contributor
    Comments (2467) | Send Message
     
    Why are we not toppling the totalitarian regime in North Korea then? Is that boy with funny haircut less totalitarian than Saddam, Mubarak, Gaddafi or Yanukovich?
    20 Apr 2014, 07:12 AM Reply Like
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1591) | Send Message
     
    Because we fight only women with all our allies lol Remember Russia must sign off any attack before hand and keep blind eyes. Iran is on the table only because Russia obliged USA request not to supply SAM air defense to them even after payment to Russians SAM 300/400 will never be attacked
    20 Apr 2014, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • Tricky
    , contributor
    Comments (1588) | Send Message
     
    We don't seem to care about African conflicts that have body counts in the millions.
    20 Apr 2014, 09:49 AM Reply Like
  • Patent News
    , contributor
    Comments (1404) | Send Message
     
    it's only going to be a local law enforcement matter now.... putin is not dumb enough to invade and crash all of his and his friend's hundreds of billions of wealth down the drain!
    18 Apr 2014, 10:54 AM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    Oh really? Its a short term opportunity. It won't crash his economy, it will boost it long term.

     

    Imagine all the money from pipeline taxes and oil revenues they will gain for being the biggest supplier of energy to all of Europe!
    18 Apr 2014, 11:20 AM Reply Like
  • Patent News
    , contributor
    Comments (1404) | Send Message
     
    pipeline taxes? ukraine has been shut off from the oil supplies for now.
    18 Apr 2014, 02:38 PM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    Read what I said... Russia will gain it for taking over Ukraine.

     

    Like trying to explain international relations to a kindergartener.
    18 Apr 2014, 09:10 PM Reply Like
  • taxman100
    , contributor
    Comments (325) | Send Message
     
    The United States needs to stay out of these meetings on Ukraine. In every single one, Obama opens up the check book and starts handing out presents again.

     

    Russia will do nothing until after Holy Week. Once Easter is concluded, their actions may change.
    18 Apr 2014, 12:58 PM Reply Like
  • Luben Stanev
    , contributor
    Comments (27) | Send Message
     
    It is exactly what Chamberlain sad after Munich 1939.
    18 Apr 2014, 04:15 PM Reply Like
  • Philip Mause
    , contributor
    Comments (3794) | Send Message
     
    Here in Washington, we await the opening of new restaurants by whichever group winds up losing and decides to emigrate to the US. I can remember the Vietnamize restaurants in the 60's and 70's, the Iranian and Ethiopian restaurants in the 80's,etc. etc. I am already studying Crimean food.
    18 Apr 2014, 04:14 PM Reply Like
  • CFS
    , contributor
    Comments (12) | Send Message
     
    Did the Vietnamese lose? It was north vs south if I recall. What are you trying to contrast is propped up puppets by US military industrial complex - that lose. By the way, my boy Hamid Karzai has a few restaurants in NW DC.
    19 Apr 2014, 08:25 PM Reply Like
  • Tricky
    , contributor
    Comments (1588) | Send Message
     
    For those advocating we "do something", what specifically are you recommending?
    18 Apr 2014, 04:44 PM Reply Like
  • bikerron1
    , contributor
    Comments (567) | Send Message
     
    If the U.S. wants to keep being the policeman of the world. Then better start up the draft. If that happens, see how fast the U.S.A. mothers put a stop to being the policeman of the world.
    18 Apr 2014, 05:38 PM Reply Like
  • Tricky
    , contributor
    Comments (1588) | Send Message
     
    Or make all the chickenhawks, and their offspring, join the infantry themselves
    18 Apr 2014, 05:43 PM Reply Like
  • norjud
    , contributor
    Comments (288) | Send Message
     
    When will the World end all this nonsense...now Russia acting like, well I cannot repeat it here.
    18 Apr 2014, 05:47 PM Reply Like
  • Tom Armistead
    , contributor
    Comments (5719) | Send Message
     
    What is missing from the comment thread here is any attempt at a meaningful discussion of a people's right to self-determination.

     

    It's not easy. It gets extremely difficult when minority rights are considered.

     

    18 Apr 2014, 05:53 PM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (2015) | Send Message
     
    I still need to understand exactly how this deal is supposed to be fulfilled. More precisely, who gets to decide on what consists an "illegal occupation"?

     

    As far as I see, the current occupations of buildings by Eastern Ukrainians are as illegal as the one that took place in Kiev, by Western Ukrainians, just a few months ago.

     

    This deal is asking for what? That both sides abandon their ground and the ousted President Viktor Yanukovych returns to power until the elections? I'm interpreting it that way.

     

    Any other conclusion is objectively discriminatory, since we can't say part of a population has every right to make a revolution and take a government by force... and the other part of the population must remain submissive and citizens will be considered terrorists if they rebel.

     

    If we send a message that an Eastern Ukrainian is somehow a lesser human being than a Western Ukrainian, and therefore has less rights, we're admitting to be racists. Aren't we?
    18 Apr 2014, 08:49 PM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    They can fight it out among themselves which is legitimate, but Russia has invaded taking sides. No one expected this, and because Crimea supposedly voted to secede from Ukraine doesn't mean its constitutional by their laws. Ukrainian government are trying to be diplomatic to a belligerent pseudo-power.
    18 Apr 2014, 09:16 PM Reply Like
  • CFS
    , contributor
    Comments (12) | Send Message
     
    Playing favorites yes...Racists no. Ukrainians are not a race.
    19 Apr 2014, 08:24 PM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (2015) | Send Message
     
    CFS: Racism does not necessarily imply discrimination by race.

     

    But so be it: call it discrimination, call it a double standard. Call it what you will, instead of racism. Treating people differently just because of the place they were born... is wrong.
    21 Apr 2014, 03:42 AM Reply Like
  • mountaintop
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    They were given two choices become independent or join russia. Stay part of Ukraine was not on the ballet. It was a sham.
    18 Apr 2014, 10:51 PM Reply Like
  • James Hanshaw
    , contributor
    Comments (2222) | Send Message
     
    Interesting comments but none take this further back than the Ukraine crisis. The Berlin Wall fell 25 years ago and the Soviet Union collapsed soon after. The West was going to disband the no longer needed NATO but that did not suit the US war machine that needs perpetual wars to sustain it. So the EU, formerly an economic union, started to get into political games by enticing former Soviet Union countries into the EU irrespective of whether or not their political and legal systems and cultures were ready. Some were invited to join an expanded NATO to surround Russia. The US wanted to base missile defence systems in Poland but the Polish people rejected that. Then the EU kept on and tried to entice Ukraine away from Russia with promises of gold it could not deliver but many in Ukraine believed it. Its rotten leader first leaned towards the EU then went back to Russia. Suddenly a coup forced him from office.

     

    Who organised that coup? We do not know but, soon after, the new self-appointed leader of Ukraine was in Washington meeting with President Obama despite the fact the US has specific laws banning it from dealing with such coup leaders. Recently we hear that the head of the CIA was in Kiev meeting with leaders who have yet to face an election to confirm them in office. And one of the first things the coup leaders did on taking office was to ban the Russian language as an official language depute the fact out is the first language for a majority in east Ukraine and even for many taxi drivers in Kiev.

     

    Soon after the coup the long baited Russian bear finally bit back and Crimea, via a popular referendum, reverted to Russia.

     

    Today in the east of Ukraine many wish to to stay in Ukraine but have more say in their affairs perhaps as a federal kind of state. The US says no to that, the Ukraine must stay a unitary nation. Strange that the US is a federation and was part of the decision process that ensured Germany was broken up from a unitary state into a federation after WW2.

     

    Ukraine has not paid for its gas supplies so the Russian supplier, Gazprom, has threatened to deliver more only on a payment on delivery basis - surely a common sense business decision that any US/western company would do too but the US government and EU criticise that too.

     

    Questions are asked in comments here about what interest has the US in this? US senator Ron Paul and others ask the same question.

     

    The Ukraine has defaulted on IMF loans, much of that provided by US taxpayers, several tomes since 1995 and now has its hands out for more despite the known fact that billions of dollars are in London and elsewhere syphoned off by some dishonest Ukrainian leaders.

     

    It is time for the West to get out and stay out and let the Ukrainian people sort out their own affairs. The West could help by forcing those that took that money out dishonestly to return it but, London, for one, is reluctant to because it has helped the UK's appalling balance of payments and the luxury end of the property market in London.

     

    It is too late to turn the clock back but had things been done more maturely by the West, after the fall of the Soviet Union, and engaged in proper discussions with Russia it might by now have been an important member of the EU for several years and the EU would be stronger economically, militarily and politically. Instead it is in near terminal decline and Russia is declining too. And there is no sign of change from the Cold War warriors of both sides. Fortunately the people of all countries are getting fed up.
    19 Apr 2014, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • James Hanshaw
    , contributor
    Comments (2222) | Send Message
     
    I will add a further comment to my lengthy one above. The UN was set up especially to deal with matters such as this and the US and Russia have seats at the top table. If the UN is incapable of dealing effectively with such matters it should be restructured so that it can or be closed as it serves little useful purpose.
    19 Apr 2014, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • Patent News
    , contributor
    Comments (1404) | Send Message
     
    pro Russia forces are getting their ways by making sure Ukraine changes it's laws and constitution to benefit Russian minority

     

    no evidence Putin will go into any other parts of Ukraine and wreck his crony oligarch system any more
    19 Apr 2014, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • CFS
    , contributor
    Comments (12) | Send Message
     
    Break Ukraine up Yugoslavia style, without the bloodshed. If Eastern Ukraine wants to be enslaved by mr. nice guy (putin), then so be it.
    19 Apr 2014, 08:24 PM Reply Like
  • Sakelaris
    , contributor
    Comments (1674) | Send Message
     
    Here is a Holy Pascha Sunday update:

     

    Russia is claiming that three pro-Russian protesters in Slavyansk were killed as the result of an attack from pro-Kiev forces "who are believed to be from the Right Sector paramilitary." The Russians further claim that two of the attackers were killed and one was captured, and that other attackers fled after more pro-Russian people got involved.

     

    The Right Sector is claiming that Russian special forces did the attack.

     

    Regardless of the details, we are clearly at a point whereby the millions of Russian-speakers in eastern Ukraine cannot be harmoniously ruled by Kiev.
    20 Apr 2014, 11:57 AM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (2015) | Send Message
     
    There is a ton of misinformation from both sides.

     

    In my country (part of the EU), there's been outrage because Russia is militarily invading Ukraine with tanks et all.

     

    Russia says the tanks are controlled by the Ukrainians who switched sides and put up a Russian flag, after the citizens in Eastern Ukraine surrounded them and convinced them they were not enemies. (RT has even put up a couple of videos showing this.)
    21 Apr 2014, 03:49 AM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    No one will care until it starts affecting oil prices and banking institutions.

     

    US is sending troops to Poland. Maybe it's because we are obligated since we left them defenseless when Obama was elected president.
    21 Apr 2014, 11:05 AM Reply Like
  • mitrado
    , contributor
    Comments (2015) | Send Message
     
    "US is sending troops to Poland."

     

    Why Poland? Have they forgotten the Euromaiden Hero was responsible for the deaths of thousands of Poles on the massacres in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia?

     

    Why would Poland accept such a psychological blow!?
    21 Apr 2014, 11:15 AM Reply Like
  • James Hanshaw
    , contributor
    Comments (2222) | Send Message
     
    First I have heard of that one. From what I hear the Poles are very worried about what is happening in Ukraine but they also did not want the US on their land when the US proposed putting a missile defence system there.

     

    If the US wanted to put trips back on the ground in Europe it has plenty of old bases in Germany they could move into overnight near Kaiserslautern and its vast airbase at Ramstein sits awaiting planes.
    21 Apr 2014, 11:32 AM Reply Like
  • NYCTEXASBANKER
    , contributor
    Comments (2741) | Send Message
     
    jh

     

    sorry Obama was the one who backed off on the missile system to make amend to Putin.
    15 May 2014, 06:41 PM Reply Like
  • Matthew Davis
    , contributor
    Comments (4334) | Send Message
     
    Uh Poland absolutely wanted the missile defense system, but Obama tried to play nice with Putin, but Obama is no Bush.
    16 May 2014, 01:11 AM Reply Like
  • James Hanshaw
    , contributor
    Comments (2222) | Send Message
     
    Typo above - trips should be troops.
    22 Apr 2014, 11:44 AM Reply Like
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