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Bill to restore Tesla in New Jersey advances in Assembly

  • A month and a half after Tesla (TSLA) was forced to halt direct sales at its two New Jersey stores, the state assembly's Consumer Affairs Committee unanimously approved a bill today that would allow it to restart sales.
  • The bill would allow TSLA - or any company that sells zero-emission vehicles directly to consumers - to open up to four stores in the Garden State.
  • Although it had previously allowed TSLA to sell the cars, the state's Motor Vehicle Commission justified stopping it because of a state law from the 1970s that requires cars to be sold through dealerships.
Comments (36)
  • 2puttwo
    , contributor
    Comments (390) | Send Message
     
    Texas ?
    5 Jun, 05:35 PM Reply Like
  • freerun
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    Texas is a conservative and oil producing state. What do you think?
    13 Jun, 06:30 AM Reply Like
  • Mario Lanza
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    Regardless of being a conservative oil producing state, it is silly to keep all your eggs in one basket, laid by the same old chickens.

     

    There are only 2 car factories in Texas. One has existed since the 50's. Nothing else. No growth. One is GM, and the other one is Toyota.
    14 Jun, 07:44 AM Reply Like
  • carlomiami
    , contributor
    Comments (172) | Send Message
     
    We may see a spike on the stock with this news tomorrow.
    All states will eventually follow, it is silly not to , being green is the future for our country.
    If law makers and influential local governments won't see it at first , they will soon or the federal government will end up incentivizing with money or tax breaks to the states that will see the ligth.
    5 Jun, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • joeinslw@gmail.com
    , contributor
    Comments (563) | Send Message
     
    It's about time just look at all the State sales they were loosing to other States, I'd bet that's exactly what made them think about this,...... money usually does.
    5 Jun, 07:37 PM Reply Like
  • DrGarnicus
    , contributor
    Comments (87) | Send Message
     
    Yup!
    6 Jun, 11:08 AM Reply Like
  • Tinov
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    I like the way when the poeple speak, through the house or correct channels the voice of the poeple is heard!
    5 Jun, 06:39 PM Reply Like
  • Alibrarja
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    The original ban was unconstitutional and restraint of trade. Tesla will win in the end!!
    5 Jun, 06:39 PM Reply Like
  • jorgemb
    , contributor
    Comments (59) | Send Message
     
    I love it when these same dealers demand that government doesn't interfere in business.
    5 Jun, 06:59 PM Reply Like
  • dvclifford
    , contributor
    Comments (12) | Send Message
     
    joeinslw, the state receives the sales tax no matter where the vehicle is purchased. I bought my Tesla from CA, online, and it was delivered to me in FL. I paid the state sales tax to FL when I registered it. The same occurs in NJ and elsewhere.
    5 Jun, 08:00 PM Reply Like
  • joeinslw@gmail.com
    , contributor
    Comments (563) | Send Message
     
    I didn't say "Sales Tax" Read it again I said "Sales" because even though they do get the tax from every sale, it surely doesn't look good to the State officials that consumers have to go to other States to buy a Tesla EV, it's a political slap in the face to NJ, especially when people run for office, and try to convince voters that they have the FREE MARKET working there, it would not be true, the worst thing a person running for office could do to voters/consumers is to take away some of there freedoms.
    6 Jun, 10:35 AM Reply Like
  • Eric Barnett
    , contributor
    Comments (8) | Send Message
     
    I don't think that is correct, you may have paid to register/tag fees for the car but not a sales tax. Sales tax would have been several thousand dollars depending on the tax rate.
    5 Jun, 08:45 PM Reply Like
  • David at Imperial Beach
    , contributor
    Comments (3187) | Send Message
     
    States with sales tax usually collect it on cars at registration time just like dvclifford said. These states are well aware that they might miss out on several thousand dollars of sales tax revenue per vehicle otherwise, so they close the loophole. It may not technically be a tax on the sales transaction any more, but they call it a sales tax anyway. It's still a tax assessed on the retail value of a new vehicle paid by its first owner upon purchase. If you pay it, you know it because it is a much larger chunk of change than the registration and licensing fees and it is clearly labeled "sales tax" on the receipt from DMV.
    6 Jun, 01:15 AM Reply Like
  • User 18365182
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    Many of the states "net" the tax collected at registration based on the state you purchased the vehicle in and what they collected at the time of the sale. Any difference in tax rate is what you pay to that state. It is very common, especially in border states with large populations near the border, i.e. Memphis, St Louis, Kansas City, etc. I have also had it occur between non-bordering states as well.
    6 Jun, 11:25 AM Reply Like
  • ratbait
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    Dealership associations contribute large sums of political money for favorable treatment. Dealerships are superfluous and will go the way of the buggy whip. They are fighting for their lives and 10% of your auto dollar. Direct sales will prevail for economic reasons.
    5 Jun, 08:59 PM Reply Like
  • Dan Fichana
    , contributor
    Comments (1789) | Send Message
     
    The 4% cap is kind of a ticking time bomb though.
    When EV sales in the state exceed 4% than they have 1 yr to sell through dealerships.

     

    Here's legal question: What acts are considered actually selling?
    Of course the transfer of money and car is selling.

     

    They Tesla stores, service centers; well technically are not selling. No different than a billboard that says Camry starting at $21,500 or a magazine print or a commercial showing the new Ford Fusion. Just a different method of conveying information.

     

    If Maybach hired people to go door to door and tell then about the car; would the dealers throw a fit about it?

     

    I give the Maybach example as a perfect example;
    There are no maybach dealers in NJ that I am aware of, but let me say you go to a car show, you see a maybach, ask the guy questions who works for maybach, etc.
    Then you call up and purchase the car from FL and have it delivered.
    Technically you did NOT purchase the car in NJ.
    Or I know people like to do that with VWs in Germany and ship the car back to the US.
    What is the difference between those situations and Tesla?

     

    If you purchase a car at a valid dealership in another state and you arrange delivery and the car is legal to own in your state, effectively the state is inhibiting the transfer of goods and services across state lines; if they are doing it selectively; the Maybach is allowed, amd Tesla is not, that can get the state in alot of trouble.
    6 Jun, 05:52 AM Reply Like
  • Derrick Hand
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    Yep those electric cars especially the Tesla are just a panacea to the conscience of the environmental nuts and are actually a "dirty" coal fired vehicle.

     

    I would love to race a Tesla with my GMC Truck!! I will do it with a load of dirt and pull my bass boat at the same time but the race has to be from coast to coast.
    6 Jun, 10:55 AM Reply Like
  • Dan Fichana
    , contributor
    Comments (1789) | Send Message
     
    You do know coalis less than 40% of the grid right now on average.

     

    Since the subject was NJ, NJ and the rest of the northeast is actual below the average.

     

    Now driving coast to coast...
    Sure you could beat it if you are wearing a diaper, taking no doze, and have all your food in your car.

     

    Myself, and many other people need to sleep,need to use an actual rest room, stretch their legs, and grab something to eat (not beef jerky, soda and potatoe chips).

     

    How often do people take a cross country road trip and red eye it?

     

    I'd fly, be well rested and have a day of free time.

     

    If you are moving cross country, still, i'd take a moving van.

     

    The better scenario and more likely scenario is daily commute, or weekly commute.
    40-50 miles per day x 5 days; log the time it takes for that commute; going the speed of traffic and log when you get home.
    Also log the 5 seconds it takes to plug in the car. Also log the 5 minutes it takes to fill up your gas tank.

     

    I've never met someone who has attempted a cross US race, but I do know tons of people who commute to work everyday.
    6 Jun, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • Derrick Hand
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    Fossil fuels win no matter how you try to spin the benefits of the Government Motors Tesla. Initial low cost, emissions, disposal of batteries, and overall capability of a gasoline engine are superior. The overhaul is cheaper too!

     

    When you have to leave your “usual route to work” (i.e. commute) to drive to another city what do you do? Answer: The Tesla owner will have to swing by the house for the real car for the open road!

     

    FYI ……..a vehicle that cannot pull a boat or trailer and carry a load is worthless except to the yuppie.
    6 Jun, 03:45 PM Reply Like
  • Dan Fichana
    , contributor
    Comments (1789) | Send Message
     
    Derrick
    So let me get this straight, you think almost every family car is worthless. You know a Corvette can not/should not tow a boat. Same with many family cars and luxury cars. Trucks for towing things, cars are not meant for large towing.
    I had a Corolla, put some soil in it, had a CRV but some cinder blocks in it; both bad ideas, they are not meant for that type of load, and the cars were struggling all the way home.
    Right vehicle right purpose.

     

    As a Tesla owner, I can tell you I have no issues going 200 miles per day; that includes going to my work (100 miles round trip); going into a major city in another state, and then going to a 3rd state and then in the morning traveling back home.

     

    Define open road and how long you expect a person to travel each day or how long and how many trips per year you expect them to take the "open" road. Those are not normal or average people.

     

    Actually there are quite a number of people with year old Teslas with 50,000 miles on them. That is open road, wouldn't you agree, since it is 4 times the average yearly travel.
    6 Jun, 04:01 PM Reply Like
  • Derrick Hand
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    Fundamentally the Tesla is a DIRTY CAR since there is a loss of energy (BTU) converting coal and natural gas to electrical power. LOL….Let me know when that Tesla can be charged solely by Solar Energy! EV car makers & programs are Government subsidized in some way to include tax credits and cannot stand upon their own merit. (LOL…Great number of Tesla owners.) Only the 1% can afford the $60K/car cost and the estimated cost of the batteries alone are $600 per kilowatt-hour which is expensive for the average consumer. Electric technology is just shifting the pollution burden to the tax Read Ozzie Zehner’s book the Green Illusions”.

     

    FYI…..Open road is defined as greater than the range of your battery powered Tesla when you will be forced to FIND that plug in and wait 8 hours for a charge.
    6 Jun, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • Derrick Hand
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    A National Academies’ study considered multiple dimensions of electric vehicles’ associated effects — such as “vehicle construction, fuel extraction, refining, emissions, and other factors” — and “concluded that the vehicles’ lifetime health and environmental damages (excluding long-term climatic effects) are actually greater than those of gasoline-powered cars”; in fact, “the study found that an electric car is likely worse than a car fueled exclusively by gasoline derived from Canadian tar sands.”
    • The extraction and processing of materials found in batteries — such as lithium, copper, and nickel — “demand energy and can release toxic wastes.” In addition, extracting them in poorly regulated areas imperials not only workers, but also “surrounding populations through air and groundwater contamination.”
    Electric cars are not a new thing since the first ones appeared in 1885. They were popular until advances in the combustion engine. Batteries for the Tesla weigh about 1000 Lbs and the total life are in question so there is an engine overhaul in the near future.

     

    • A more responsible electric-car analysis would consider not just charging the vehicle, but also “the environmental impacts over the vehicle’s entire life cycle, from its construction through its operation and on to its eventual retirement at the junkyard.”
    Zehner concludes with an apt analogy: Transitioning from conventional to electric vehicles may just be like “shifting from one brand of cigarettes to another.” The question is, though, with so many interests addicted to the green, can we kick the habit before the economy and environment get the electric shock of good intentions?

     

    EVs do, however, face significant battery-related challenges:
    • Driving range. Most EVs can only go about 100–200 miles before recharging—gasoline vehicles can go over 300 miles before refueling.
    • Recharge time. Fully recharging the battery pack can take 4 to 8 hours. Even a "quick charge" to 80% capacity can take 30 min.
    • Battery cost: The large battery packs are expensive and may need to be replaced one or more times.
    • Bulk & weight: Battery packs are heavy and take up considerable vehicle space.
    6 Jun, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • Derrick Hand
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    Fundamentally the Tesla is a DIRTY CAR since there is a loss of energy (BTU) converting coal and natural gas to electrical power. LOL….Let me know when that Tesla can be charged solely by Solar Energy! EV car makers & programs are Government subsidized in some way to include tax credits and cannot stand upon their own merit. (LOL…Great number of Tesla owners.) Only the 1% can afford the $60K/car cost and the estimated cost of the batteries alone are $600 per kilowatt-hour which is expensive for the average consumer. Electric technology is just shifting the pollution burden to the tax Read Ozzie Zehner’s book the Green Illusions”.
    6 Jun, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • Derrick Hand
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    Fundamentally the Tesla is a DIRTY CAR since there is a loss of energy (BTU) converting coal and natural gas to electrical power. LOL….Let me know when that Tesla can be charged solely by Solar Energy! EV car makers & programs are Government subsidized in some way to include tax credits and cannot stand upon their own merit. (LOL…Great number of Tesla owners.) Only the 1% can afford the $60K/car cost and the estimated cost of the batteries alone are $600 per kilowatt-hour which is expensive for the average consumer. Electric technology is just shifting the pollution burden to the tax Read Ozzie Zehner’s book the Green Illusions”.

     

    FYI…..Open road is defined as greater than the range of your battery powered Tesla when you will be forced to find that plug in.
    6 Jun, 04:40 PM Reply Like
  • Derrick Hand
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    A National Academies’ study considered multiple dimensions of electric vehicles’ associated effects — such as “vehicle construction, fuel extraction, refining, emissions, and other factors” — and “concluded that the vehicles’ lifetime health and environmental damages (excluding long-term climatic effects) are actually greater than those of gasoline-powered cars”; in fact, “the study found that an electric car is likely worse than a car fueled exclusively by gasoline derived from Canadian tar sands.”
    • The extraction and processing of materials found in batteries — such as lithium, copper, and nickel — “demand energy and can release toxic wastes.” In addition, extracting them in poorly regulated areas imperials not only workers, but also “surrounding populations through air and groundwater contamination.”
    Electric cars are not a new thing since the first ones appeared in 1885. They were popular until advances in the combustion engine. Batteries for the Tesla weigh about 1000 Lbs and the total life are in question so there is an engine overhaul in the near future.
    • A more responsible electric-car analysis would consider not just charging the vehicle, but also “the environmental impacts over the vehicle’s entire life cycle, from its construction through its operation and on to its eventual retirement at the junkyard.”
    Zehner concludes with an apt analogy: Transitioning from conventional to electric vehicles may just be like “shifting from one brand of cigarettes to another.” The question is, though, with so many interests addicted to the green, can we kick the habit before the economy and environment get the electric shock of good intentions?
    6 Jun, 04:51 PM Reply Like
  • Dan Fichana
    , contributor
    Comments (1789) | Send Message
     
    Derrick
    Look at the actual study, not what Ozzie Zehner says; he has an agenda
    Notice the qualifiers in your study that says "CAN", that does not mean it does.
    If I said the exposure to gasoline CAN cause cancer since it contains trace amounts of benzene; see how it gets twisted around.

     

    Also the NA study was released in 2010. Alot has changed in the past 4 years. For instance, the Tesla motor does not use any rare earth metals in the motor. Also the energy density has increased drastically (that means for the on a per kg basis the environmental outputs have decreased). If you read more, Don Anair, one of the guy Ozzie Zehner quotes, had to step in an comment the Zehner completely misrepresented his research in a blog (It's bad when someone you quoted and relied upon has to correct you).

     

    The let us look at your statement questioning the total life of the battery. Well, Panasonic pegs the NCA used in the Tesla Model S for 2000 + full charge cycles and still be at 70% capacity. Well, you can do the math, that is well over 500,000 miles. Most cars are not on the road after 500,000 miles. Wouldn't you agree?
    How many 33 year old cars do you see on the road?

     

    Actually quite a number of LCA studies have been done by Argonne labs, MIT, and UCS, and there was also a team from Japan. I sanity check their numbers and see if they make sense (I'm in the same ballpark as all of those numbers; I used the Tesla battery explicitly, they used average lithium numbers, so m numbers are a tad lower).

     

    Look at the initial reports, if the initial reports have blatant errors or rely on other reports with blatant errors; THROW them out!
    When I say blatant; I mean that they make up a fictional vehcile, make up a fictional chemistry, low ball the cut off point, use a comparable ICE car with extremely high mpg that does not exist, assumes a replacement after X years without data to back it up, compares apples to oranges, or any number of things that would denote of selectively drawing a conclusion.
    7 Jun, 12:54 PM Reply Like
  • Derrick Hand
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    Fundamentally the Tesla is a dirty car since there is a loss of energy (BTU) converting coal and natural gas to electrical power. LOL….Let me know when that Tesla can be charged solely by Solar Energy! EV car makers & programs are Government subsidized in some way to include tax credits and cannot stand upon their own merit. (LOL…Great number of Tesla owners.) Only the 1% can afford the $60K/car cost and the estimated cost of the batteries alone are $600 per kilowatt-hour which is expensive for the average consumer. Electric technology is just shifting the pollution burden to the tax.

     

    Read Ozzie Zehner’s book the Green Illusions”.

     

    FYI…..Open road is defined as greater than the range of your battery powered Tesla when you will be forced to find that plug in.
    6 Jun, 04:52 PM Reply Like
  • Dan Fichana
    , contributor
    Comments (1789) | Send Message
     
    Derrick
    Let us go through the calculations
    There is 19.6 lbs CO2 per gallon of gasoline. Do you agree with that? If you don't it's basic chemistry, you can look it up

     

    Currently the grid is
    37% coal
    27% natural gas
    19 % nuclear
    9% hydro
    7% other (solar, wind, geothermal bio reactors, etc)
    1% oil

     

    Do you agree that hydro, solar, wind, and geothermal are not burning anything? If they are there are BIG problems and they are not operating as expected

     

    Let us take the eia government website for the information
    http://1.usa.gov/145avU6

     

    so run the calculation- you get 1.15 lbs per kwhr

     

    Now deliver it to your house; you lose 7% due to transmission losses
    That puts you up to 1.23 lbs per kwhr

     

    Now as per SAE/EPA testing it is 0.32 kwhr per mile

     

    so 0.32 kwhr per mile * 1.23 lbs per kwhr = 0.39 lbs per mile for a Tesla Model S

     

    Now let us back calculate the mileage
    19.6 lbs per gallon/ 0.39 lbs per mile = 50 mpg, not bad for a fast car, that is better than the EPA rated for a Prius

     

    Number 2: the batteries are not $600 per kwhr, they are closer to $200.

     

    Number 3: Ozzie Zehner, If you read the works he cited, he cites some Life cycle assessment studies that have been discredited (hawkins, Lomberg). Mr. Zehner tends to cherry pick results and then ignore contrary results, as does Lomberg. This is HIGHLY frowned upon in the scientific community. That is why we have scientific standards. Kind of like flipping a coin, it comes up heads half the time and you say- all the tails are wrong because I breathed before I flipped it... therefore this penny always comes up heads.
    These are like the Prius has more emissions than a hummer study.

     

    Number 4: I would not have to wait 8 hours to charge, there are quite a number of superchargers located throughout the USA; have not needed to use them, but many people have. They charge the car in about 1.25 hrs to full and it is FREE for owners.
    http://bit.ly/QpV8An

     

    Number 5: 1% of owners and a 60 K car, I guess you feel that way about Corvette, BMW, MB, Caddy, and Lincoln buyers too.

     

    Number 6: A 7.5 K tax credit will not make or break the decision on a 100 K car, that is 1 option, not a huge deal. Now if you are talking about the ATVM loan program which Tesla already paid back, may I remind you Ford and Nissan took at close to 10 Billion, Yes with a B, and still have those loans outstanding.

     

    Number 7: Are you talking about the ZEV credits? Because last quarter Tesla made very little if any money selling those credits.
    6 Jun, 04:54 PM Reply Like
  • Kirill Klip
    , contributor
    Comments (78) | Send Message
     
    Tesla Model S UK Invasion Starts Tomorrow - Elon Musk To Occupy European Hearts Now.
    UK is still far behind of many countries in the Electric Revolution despite of its huge potential for the mass market for Electric Cars. Its population is quite wealthy and unfortunately every car cost you here the same amount as in US, but in pounds - at least 60% more expensive. UK is famous for its style, fashion and tech innovation, but it has never really transpired into the huge drive for electric cars yet. Which is quite surprising, as petrol prices here are 1.4 pound/l or more than 8 USD/gallon.
    I think I know the answer and it is coming tomorrow with Tesla Model S - UK was just waiting for The Real Electric Car here "like the normal one, but better!"

     

    http://bit.ly/1omfTNR#
    6 Jun, 07:37 PM Reply Like
  • surferbroadband
    , contributor
    Comments (951) | Send Message
     
    Looks like Derrick Hand has taken the place of John Peterson and Logical Thought.

     

    Such a nice place to be.
    6 Jun, 11:02 PM Reply Like
  • joeinslw@gmail.com
    , contributor
    Comments (563) | Send Message
     
    I agree surfer, these guys are spewing out all kinds of garbage along with made up lies with these statements, even one of them saying that Tesla hasn't figured out how to charge the batteries with the sun's energy, he says:

     

    "Fundamentally the Tesla is a dirty car since there is a loss of energy (BTU) converting coal and natural gas to electrical power. LOL….Let me know when that Tesla can be charged solely by Solar Energy".

     

    Where have these guys been? Didn't they read about the Superchargers that have been installed all over the country? Clearly these guys are uneducated, they don't know what they are talking about, or worse they are shorting tsla, in which case every word of their posts should be ignored.
    14 Jun, 11:18 AM Reply Like
  • surferbroadband
    , contributor
    Comments (951) | Send Message
     
    Derrick Hand said "I would love to race a Tesla with my GMC Truck!! I will do it with a load of dirt and pull my bass boat at the same time but the race has to be from coast to coast. "

     

    When Tesla has pickup ( I drive a Ford Ranger 4cyl w/5speed) then you can make a serious comparison. Apples to Apples, and Oranges to Oranges.

     

    Cannot compare bananas to nuts. Even if eating them together is great.
    6 Jun, 11:06 PM Reply Like
  • surferbroadband
    , contributor
    Comments (951) | Send Message
     
    From Derrick Hand Bio

     

    Petroleum Engineer Dallas TX working in the Bakken, Haynesville, and Barnett.

     

    Tesla Motors is a complete threat to this guy and his livelihood.

     

    With that in mind, all his comments make perfect sense and are very logical.

     

    Without that information, his comments seem, insane.
    6 Jun, 11:15 PM Reply Like
  • Derrick Hand
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    Suferbroadband……The TESLA Religion believes in moonbeam solutions and pixie dust energy policies and have deferred from logical thought. When the rubber meets the road it will be powered by fossil fuels for years to come. LNG and NG powered vehicles are coming more to the forefront and will push aside the $80K Government Motors car. The Tesla is not a threat to the Petroleum Industry I work in but their followers have strong beliefs for sure and are but dreamers.

     

    From your snarky responses I have obviously hit a nerve!
    18 Jun, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • Doc's Trading
    , contributor
    Comments (594) | Send Message
     
    TSLA.... Thursday our short trade taken at 210 was stopped out at 208.10 for a miniscule gain.
    I still believe the stock is going lower but better and less risky shorts are now available since we believe the market is heading south starting this coming week.
    more later....
    7 Jun, 02:22 PM Reply Like
  • joeinslw@gmail.com
    , contributor
    Comments (563) | Send Message
     
    Doc----I will agree that when the market goes down it will usually pull down tsla and every other stock along with it, but then there is always a bounce when the stock and the market recovers after several hours or days.
    The real problem for your prediction is last week the market went down over 100 points but tsla went up about 2.50, what does your crystal ball say about that?
    14 Jun, 11:24 AM Reply Like
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