Airbus outdoes Boeing at Farnborough


Airbus (OTCPK:EADSY) crushed Boeing (BA +0.1%) in the orders race at this year's Farnborough Airshow with almost twice as many orders and commitments.

At the expo close: Boeing reported $40.2B in new orders for 201 planes versus Airbus' 496 aircraft valued at $75B.

Much of Airbus' success is attributed to its lower priced A320neo and newly announced A330neo.

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Comments (14)
  • keallen
    , contributor
    Comments (513) | Send Message
     
    The only reason they can lower the price of the Neo, the French government is subsidizing them. Being in the airline business, Boeing makes a better airplane. The 787 is the most efficient aircraft in the world. Airbus is copying the Boeing technology. The original is always better than a copy.
    17 Jul 2014, 11:07 AM Reply Like
  • thomas85225
    , contributor
    Comments (552) | Send Message
     
    More Boeing Propaganda

     

    The headline news does support your comments!

     

    W.T.O. Upholds Ruling on Boeing Subsidies - NYTimes.com
    http://nyti.ms/1pfgxuO...

     

    The New York Times Mar 12, 2012 - The World Trade Organization affirmed that Boeing received $5 billion in improper subsidies, giving it an unfair advantage over Airbus, but both ...

     

    Boeing Got $7,250 In Tax Breaks For Every $1 It Spent ...
    http://huff.to/1pfgxL5...

     

    Boeing receive 27 Billions of taxpayer money to build 777-X complex in Everett
    Washington Governor Jay Inslee, a Democrat, called the session to seek roughly 8 billion in tax breaks, a streamlined permitting process for Boeing and $10 billion in funding for transportation improvements, and construction of 1.5 million square feet of new facilities in the Puget Sound Alone with the exiting 9 Billions to the year to 2040
    It’s not 8.7 billion its 27 billion and state payer money and not state payer are not Boeing stock holder any money to Boeing should a Bond issues this would allow the tax payer to get paid back

     

    http://bit.ly/1hxnHuN
    http://cnb.cx/HVLvIe

     

    South caroline taxpayer has given boeing tax break and over 860 millions dollars
    Boeing is no longer an American company or a Seattle Mom and Pop shop but MUILNATIONAL COROPATION (ran by GE) that build 70% of commercial in 70 counties and 25 states
    http://bit.ly/11GHBIC

     

    Boeing's Secret see
    http://buswk.co/1h0XyVI-secret‎ Bloomberg Business week
    7E7- aka 787 The Boeing Rip-off, Introduction. Boeing and Governor Locke just finished the biggest giveaway of our tax-dollars in Washington State history see

     

    http://bit.ly/MFJKBM
    http://bit.ly/1skckb7

     

    Boeing does not pay taxes in Washington state
    17 Jul 2014, 02:49 PM Reply Like
  • thomas85225
    , contributor
    Comments (552) | Send Message
     
    The 787 was started in 2003 with 1032 orders and 114 cancellations and 162 delivery to date

     

    Boeing's lost JAL order to Airbus to have ripple effect -

     

    seattletimes.com/html/... Seattle Times

     

    The 787 aircrafts was grounded

     

    Boeing 787 Dreamliner: a timeline of problems - Telegraph
    http://bit.ly/r5tulZ › Travel › Travel News The Daily Telegraph

     

    Boeing Faulted by Norwegian Air on 787 Short Circuit
    Boeing Co. (NYSE:BA) engineers lacked the expertise needed to diagnose a fault on a 787 Dreamliner, causing them to short-circuit the marquee plane and leave its passengers stranded, operator Norwegian Air Shuttle (NAS) ASA said.
    http://bloom.bg/1s4gjtK

     

    W.T.O. Upholds Ruling on Boeing Subsidies - NYTimes.com
    http://nyti.ms/1pfgxuO...

     

    The New York Times Mar 12, 2012 - The World Trade Organization affirmed that Boeing received $5 billion in improper subsidies, giving it an unfair advantage over Airbus, but both ...

     

    Boeing Got $7,250 In Tax Breaks For Every $1 It Spent ...
    http://huff.to/1pfgxL5...

     

    Boeing receive 27 Billions of taxpayer money to build 777-X complex in Everett
    Washington Governor Jay Inslee, a Democrat, called the session to seek roughly 8 billion in tax breaks, a streamlined permitting process for Boeing and $10 billion in funding for transportation improvements, and construction of 1.5 million square feet of new facilities in the Puget Sound Alone with the exiting 9 Billions to the year to 2040
    It’s not 8.7 billion its 27 billion and state payer money and not state payer are not Boeing stock holder any money to Boeing should a Bond issues this would allow the tax payer to get paid back

     

    http://bit.ly/1hxnHuN
    http://cnb.cx/HVLvIe

     

    South caroline taxpayer has given boeing tax break and over 860 millions dollars

     

    Boeing is no longer an American company or a Seattle Mom and Pop shop but MUILNATIONAL COROPATION (ran by GE) that build 70% of commercial in 70 counties and 25 states
    http://bit.ly/11GHBIC

     

    Boeing's Secret see
    http://buswk.co/1h0XyVI-secret‎ Bloomberg Business week
    7E7- aka 787 The Boeing Rip-off, Introduction. Boeing and Governor Locke just finished the biggest giveaway of our tax-dollars in Washington State history see

     

    http://bit.ly/MFJKBM
    http://bit.ly/1skckb7

     

    Boeing makes a better airplane. The 787 is the most efficient aircraft in the world only on paper
    18 Jul 2014, 08:20 AM Reply Like
  • Karadion
    , contributor
    Comments (21) | Send Message
     
    "Boeing receive 27 Billions of taxpayer money to build 777-X complex in Everett" No they didn't. SB 5952 took the original 7E7 package, repackaged it, and it was calculated to the value of 8.9 billion from 2014 to 2040. SB 5952 basically extended the tax breaks that was set to expire and pushed it back to 2040. Boeing doesn't even get a check in any kind of form. They just pay a reduced B&O tax rate of 0.2904% instead of 0.484%
    http://1.usa.gov/1sBaGVH
    "July 1, 2007 - June 30, 2040 .002904 (reduction of 40.0%)"

     

    "It’s not 8.7 billion its 27 billion" What's your sources for that it was $27 billion of taxpayer money? The operating budget of Washington State is $67 billion. There's absolutely no way that the State of Washington literally gave them a check of $27 billion in any given time as that would amount to 40% of the budget and that would have been a huge controversy. Instead what happens is that the State of Washington does not collect at most $334 million a year in B&O taxes from Boeing gross revenues.

     

    "Boeing is no longer an American company" Actually it's headquartered in the United States more specifically in Chicago, Illinois. BCA is headquartered in Renton, WA whereas BDS is headquartered in St. Louis, MO.

     

    "Boeing does not pay taxes in Washington state" Wrong, they pay a B&O tax rate of 0.2904% instead of 0.484%.
    20 Jul 2014, 03:48 AM Reply Like
  • combie
    , contributor
    Comments (101) | Send Message
     
    At Farnborough it is all about orders and not much about profits. Neither Boeing or Airbus has ever sold a plane at "list" price and they almost give away planes to show orders. Just a numbers game. both companies are at capacity and anything they sell is years out these days so it does not mean much. one little glitch in the economy and the cancellations will flood in.
    17 Jul 2014, 11:13 AM Reply Like
  • User 7530821
    , contributor
    Comments (230) | Send Message
     
    With the huge backlog that both BA and EADS have, they should realize that the game for a while has been capacity and they should not be giving it away in a duopoly market. If they drive prices up, the impact of new orders on operating leverage would be significant. I have not heard BA talk about price index as a business metric.
    17 Jul 2014, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • thomas85225
    , contributor
    Comments (552) | Send Message
     
    Orders are not delivery, now Boeing and Airbus ect must now build the aircrafts

     

    when Airlines order aircrafts the Airlines places a 1/3 down payment of the aircraft sell prices plus any upgrade and finally payment is due when the aircrafts is delivers on time, on budget and defect fee, months or years from now and the check is deposit into the Bank!

     

    but Boeing has yet to modernize its assembly plant for 777-x, 787-10, 737maX

     

    Boeing still must design and tests all the 777-X, 787-10 and the 737max parts and build flight test parts and test the wing and build flight test aircrafts,
    777-X, 787-10 for the FAA 18 month to 24 months flight test programs Aircraft Certification Procedures
    Boeing has yet to buy a high time 777-200, or -300 and installed the folding wing tips for the flight test program for FAA Certification of the 777-X to kept the aircraft as code E. http://bit.ly/16Rp9Q9

     

    http://abcn.ws/1qiEwhL
    17 Jul 2014, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • azzuraskye
    , contributor
    Comments (141) | Send Message
     
    Subsidies? Is this supposition? Airbus made the comment at Farnborough that the A330 Neo was a lot cheaper to re-engine than a brand new plane would have been. They also said that they had achieved the refresh for a lot less than originally expected. I doubt this is a subsidy issue - it sounds more like good engineering work combined with a strategic advantage offered by the relative modernity of the A330. As for copying Boeing, the fuel savings are delivered by newer engines (not made by Boeing of course) and greater use of composites (which both manufacturers have been using for some time). The 787 remains a much more modern airframe than the A330 so presumably Boeing will have an advantage in the next cycle - they will be able to re-engine the 787 while Airbus may need to build a new airframe. Swings and roundabouts...
    17 Jul 2014, 05:39 PM Reply Like
  • randyrelph
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    I worked 30 in Business Management for Boeing. Given the insurgence of new design work, BA would have that edge with the 787. Not to mention the 'Cash' flowing in from the initial 787 launch customers, while the -9 is on time deliveries, as likely will be the case on the -10. That cash will finance the Composite wings on the great 777X, plus any other projects they want to manage. Given the power of dividends, BA will likely add to that position as well.

     

    Again, technology, with excess Cash, gives BA the clear edge.
    17 Jul 2014, 06:18 PM Reply Like
  • HiloHawaiian
    , contributor
    Comments (77) | Send Message
     
    To be fair Thomas, you should mention Airbus is essentially funded by 3 EU Gov'ts with so many tax breaks, subsidies, favors, and state-sponsored financing it's hardly a corporation, as we know it in the west. They design & build good airplanes, but it's always been essentially a state-funded jobs program.
    17 Jul 2014, 10:09 PM Reply Like
  • Shaduc
    , contributor
    Comments (2913) | Send Message
     
    BA is funded by the USA and Jp govts!
    17 Jul 2014, 10:10 PM Reply Like
  • GarryGR
    , contributor
    Comments (346) | Send Message
     
    To some, Airbus's stock price decline in the last 5 days, doesn't make sense, based on the results of the orders taken in at this airshow. Airbus loves the orders hype, particularly at these really big airshows. Airbus was far behind Boeing in orders, going into this airshow and finished still behind Boeing, for the years totals. It's well known, by anyone familiar with the Boeing Airbus aircraft business, that Airbus delays announcing orders until there's a big airshow, when possible, so they can get the great press coverage they get when the beat Boeing's airshow numbers. Another success for Airbus at this airshow. However . . .

     

    The order numbers are a very shallow metric for comparing Boeing and Airbus. Airbus has put great importance on winning the yearly orders race for over a decade now, and has won the majority of those races. But, in this business, an order is not a sale, although much of the shallow "business" reporting would lead you to believe they're equal. Consider the 2007 order for 70 A350s, which were cancelled this year. That certainly wasn't a sale. Customers make a very small down payment to hold their position in the production schedule and only pay the bulk of the cost when the plane is delivered. Investors know this and therefore discount the hype surrounding the orders game played by Airbus. Having beaten Boeing the majority of the times for more than a decade now, the casual observer would probably be quite surprised to find out that Boeing has delivered more planes than Airbus since 2012 and will probably continue to do so for a number of years to come.

     

    How could it be more obvious that an order is not a sale?! In the past 5 days, with all the hype surrounding Airbus orders at this airshow, Airbus stock has declined over 5%. Boeing's' is also down, but less than 1%. So you can see that despite the Airbus order hype, the market is unimpressed. Those are the folks who put their money where their mouth is and they didn't buy into the hype. ;-)

     

    As to subsidies, Thomas forgot to mention that the WTO found that the subsidies to Airbus were much larger than Boeing's. And, the strange thing is that Airbus has complained about the subsidies Boeing gets from the US states competing for their business but then Airbus has a similar competition for their A320 manufacturing site in the US. They were all too happy to accept whatever "subsidy" they could get from a US state! But, i guess that's different! ;-)
    18 Jul 2014, 06:36 PM Reply Like
  • sddd
    , contributor
    Comments (264) | Send Message
     
    Well said Garry,
    Airbus always plays the headline game at airshows, and as a result also always fails to fully tell their story. For example, AirAsia's "order" actually being an MoU for 330neos doesn't also note that some 34 of those will replace a330's still on order by the same carrier. Instead 'bus adds them all to the pile. Likewise they'll not publicize how many 320neos will supplant 320 orders in their books.

     

    It's all PR but always seemed a bit odd to me in that carriers don't care about banner headlines at shows.

     

    Re subsidies Dick still said it best... The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
    21 Jul 2014, 03:13 PM Reply Like
  • TTTZ2000
    , contributor
    Comments (9) | Send Message
     
    The airshows just give Boeing and Airbus and opportunity show off their "wares". Additionally, airlines also use this to show they are buying the latest and greatest so they do tend to promise more now, with the option to back out later.

     

    The numbers coming out of the show are just a snapshot. I combine those numbers with the past year, 2 years, 5 years and see how things look.

     

    In regards to subsidies, state and national subsidies are nothing new for business in the US or the EU. It is very typical in business for States to give take breaks to bring manufacturing home.
    23 Jul 2014, 01:22 PM Reply Like
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