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U.S. threatens additional sanctions following Malaysia Airlines crash

  • President Obama has again warned Vladimir Putin of increased sanctions if Russia does not change its stance of backing Ukrainian rebels.
  • The additional threat follows the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 over the battle-torn east Ukraine region of Donetsk.
  • U.S. intelligence agencies say the plane was struck by a ground-to-air missile but are divided to if it was launched by the Russian military or by pro-Russian separatists.
  • ETFs: RSX, RUSL, RSXJ, ERUS, RUSS, RBL, RUDR
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Comments (33)
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1446) | Send Message
     
    This is a tragedy. Everyone needs to wait to find out the facts instead of jumping blindly to conclusions. There are many possibilities:

     

    1. Plane crashed due to other reasons including implanted bomb

     

    2. Plane shot down by Missile by rebels

     

    3. Plane shot down by Russia defense system

     

    4. Plane shot down by Ukraine defense system

     

    My mind narrows to either (3) or (4). I very much doubt the need and use of BUK system by the rebels. There is no reason for Russia to supply rebels with Sam-17 sophisticated missile of such range. Fighter jets used by Ukraine in their war does not fly such altitude. But in the end it is a colossal but senseless accident. None of the actors could have chosen to shot down a civilian plane. I am sure if independent investigation is carried out the truth will surface. Before then what is uppermost is to support the grieving families
    18 Jul 2014, 06:14 AM Reply Like
  • Rubenov
    , contributor
    Comments (427) | Send Message
     
    The missile originated from the rebel-controlled region of Donestk. Ukraine doesn't have any forces there.

     

    Rebels did it, with Russian weaponry, witting or unwittingly.
    18 Jul 2014, 07:04 AM Reply Like
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1446) | Send Message
     
    Do you know how BUK works ? It is a mobile system. How can you say such a thing ? Best to allow the investigators to come with facts
    18 Jul 2014, 08:01 AM Reply Like
  • Tricky
    , contributor
    Comments (1583) | Send Message
     
    The accident site has already been compromised by Russia. There isn't going to be an objective investigation.
    18 Jul 2014, 08:53 AM Reply Like
  • capitolp
    , contributor
    Comments (683) | Send Message
     
    @leopard, It was definitely a accident, but it reminds me of the hunting accident when Dick Cheney shot that guy in the face, who do you blame, The Bird, The Gun, The Victim, or The Dick ?
    18 Jul 2014, 08:53 AM Reply Like
  • Tricky
    , contributor
    Comments (1583) | Send Message
     
    I blame the victim for being friends with Cheney ;-)
    18 Jul 2014, 09:25 AM Reply Like
  • chopchop0
    , contributor
    Comments (3736) | Send Message
     
    "Rebels did it, with Russian weaponry, witting or unwittingly."

     

    Agreed. They likely did NOT possess the "friend or foe" system that Ukraine would have access to prevent something like this from happening.
    18 Jul 2014, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • capitolp
    , contributor
    Comments (683) | Send Message
     
    @Tricky, You make a strong point, that's why I do all my hunting at the butcher's shop.
    18 Jul 2014, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • Rubenov
    , contributor
    Comments (427) | Send Message
     
    leopard,

     

    Son, Ukraine has no need to shoot at anything in the sky. The rebels have no planes. They have anti-air missile systems though, and have shot down planes before.

     

    An area controlled by rebels means Ukraine military vehicles can't move around freely. While not out of the realm of the possible, it makes very little sense that the gov of Ukraine shot this plane down.
    18 Jul 2014, 12:59 PM Reply Like
  • NLTInvestor
    , contributor
    Comments (316) | Send Message
     
    But will I make money by shorting Malaysian Airlines? In all seriousness that was a real tragedy...
    18 Jul 2014, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • mman
    , contributor
    Comments (52) | Send Message
     
    2Rubenov: Overlord! Thank you for telling us the truth. Now can you please give some evidence of your ORIGINAL opinion?
    22 Jul 2014, 05:00 AM Reply Like
  • Rope a Dope
    , contributor
    Comments (589) | Send Message
     
    There are some preliminary reports emerging that indicate the Ukrainian government intercepted telephone calls between the separatists and Russian military indicating the separatists shot the plane down. There are also reports from various news organizations of saved Tweets and Facebook posts from separatists bragging about shooting a plane down. All this prior to the discovery it was a civilian airliner and not a Ukrainian cargo plane. Whoops.

     

    I’m sure the separatists didn’t know it was a civilian plane, but that’s as far as you can take the word ‘accident’. I think it should be pretty clear that Putin and a handful of Russian military brass are arming the separatists and the downing of this airliner and the loss of 298 lives will prove to be a grievous error on their part.

     

    Putin and a handful of his cronies are going to set the Russian economy back 20 years.
    18 Jul 2014, 07:17 AM Reply Like
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (1446) | Send Message
     
    There is absolutely no need to listen to all sort of propaganda from either sides. This is a human tragedy. The important thing to do now is for international independent investigation to ascertain what actually happened. Let us scale down "preliminary" reports and so-called bugged phone calls for now. Same intelligence sold us the fact that Iraq has weapon that could wipe out the earth and we know where we are today
    18 Jul 2014, 08:00 AM Reply Like
  • WhateverWorks
    , contributor
    Comments (17) | Send Message
     
    The "intel" on Iraq failed a sense check. At the time India did not have the capability to deliver WMD effectively as far as the West and their nuclear program is not secret. It seemed highly unlikely to me, at the time, that Iraq could realistically have better capabilities than India in this regard.

     

    Conversely sense on this occasion would indicate the separatist rebels are the most likely party to blame.

     

    It is not in anybodies interest to shoot down a neutral civilian airplane, so it was almost definately a case of mistaken identification.

     

    Ukrainian air traffic control and radar had already tracked and identified the flight as it had been in Ukrainian airspace for quite some time (this is a know fact), so it is unlikely to be the Ukrainian military. Additionally a plane flying from central Ukraine towards the separatist east would not likely be assumed by the Ukrainians to be a hostile plane.

     

    Given the approach vector and height both Russia and the separatists could have mistaken the flight by eye as a Ukrainian military plane, but given Russia's advanced air defense radar identification system it is far less likely that the Russians would mistakenly shoot it down.

     

    The rebels, however, would have to go by eye as they have no such system, so in this case I find the intel believable. We should collect as much evidence as possible before taking any action, of course.

     

    Given the area is a warzone and both sides are known to have access to both aircraft and anti aircraft systems some blame must be assigned to whoever allowed the plane to follow this flightpath. Collateral damage is an unfortunate reality of conflict, though irresponsible provision of high tech weaponry to armed groups without the training and radar equipment to identify correct targets certainly exacerbates it.
    18 Jul 2014, 09:26 AM Reply Like
  • Rope a Dope
    , contributor
    Comments (589) | Send Message
     
    The transcripts were released several hours ago; nothing preliminary about that or the conversations contained on the tapes. Those are facts, not propaganda.
    18 Jul 2014, 08:10 AM Reply Like
  • SgtSally
    , contributor
    Comments (33) | Send Message
     
    Ukrainian military shot down a Russian civilian plane in 2001 in the Crimea killing 79 civilians. This could be thought of as revenge.
    United States hands are not clean either. USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian plane that killed 290 in 1988.
    First was Israel that shot down a Libyan plane.
    18 Jul 2014, 08:25 AM Reply Like
  • Tricky
    , contributor
    Comments (1583) | Send Message
     
    http://bit.ly/WhIbyU

     

    Russians seem to have the most talent for shooting down civilian airliners
    18 Jul 2014, 08:47 AM Reply Like
  • MWinMD
    , contributor
    Comments (2527) | Send Message
     
    Actually, we (US) started the ball rolling in state-sponsored terror by killing 78 people in the CIA-linked bombing of a Cuban airliner in 1976.

     

    http://bit.ly/WisuHK

     

    Hard to figure what the geopolitical goal would have been in this one though.
    18 Jul 2014, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • mmarcotti
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    what did the sanction do so far??? oh yes, the more they increased the sanction the more civilians are dying......Mr Obama maybe it's time to change the game???
    18 Jul 2014, 08:58 AM Reply Like
  • Mking30
    , contributor
    Comments (141) | Send Message
     
    Another day in the life, what shall it be next...
    18 Jul 2014, 09:13 AM Reply Like
  • Guardian3981
    , contributor
    Comments (2135) | Send Message
     
    Europe needs to be taking the lead on this issue. The whole reason it is an issue is because Ukraine was taking steps to join the Euro and Europe was all for it.
    18 Jul 2014, 09:21 AM Reply Like
  • Sakelaris
    , contributor
    Comments (1585) | Send Message
     
    The tragedy of this Ukrainian warfare and now the loss of this plane are the result of a gradual but long-term US diplomatic effort of the Clinton, Bush, and Obama administrations to stir up Ukrainian-Russian tensions. It was madness!
    18 Jul 2014, 11:09 PM Reply Like
  • Ishi Kenjo
    , contributor
    Comments (189) | Send Message
     
    Point 1) Obama is a paper tiger. Putin is not impressed & will not change his behavior because of an additional threat. Not many countries of importance backed the trade sanctions because most stopped supporting the man child in the White House.

     

    Point 2) What was a commercial airline doing flying over a known war-torn country? This could have been avoided with common sense from Malaysia. Might want to rethink that fuel savings plan. I think they just lost a few bucks on that gamble! Or maybe they could reroute to fly through China, Iraq, or Iran to save a few bucks on fuel next time.

     

    Point 3) Europe needs Russia's resources. So it is questionable how much they can do. There is now a growing coalition of countries that have replace the U.S. Dollar in oil trade. Lots of countries from France to Germany to Russia to China and many of their allies seem to be turning on the U.S. because of our president & his games. He might want to spend more time running his own country instead of bothering others. America has the least % of people working in decades. Nearly 40 % of population is not part of the workforce. Costs of living have spiraled out of control from food to utilities to insurance to housing. The debt has doubled as he is on pace to outspend all other presidents combined. Yet the money has been wasted on partisan causes and union interests or corporate bailouts instead of job creation. Risks are higher than they've been in a long time. And the gap between the ultra-rich and the rest has grown under B.O. by design. He props up the richest while his policies bury the middle class & poor.
    18 Jul 2014, 11:22 AM Reply Like
  • SoCalNative
    , contributor
    Comments (540) | Send Message
     
    Ishi, be prepared to be harangued by the BO cheerleaders. Although your fuel saving comment is tongue in cheek, there is some substance to it.
    18 Jul 2014, 12:18 PM Reply Like
  • Tomal
    , contributor
    Comments (1026) | Send Message
     
    You should know that it was a common route for flying to South East Asia. Just like it is common to fly over Iraq and Afghanistan. (check flight routes to middle east cities like dubai from europe) There were three other planes following the same flight plan. These were another Singapore 777 and Air India 787.

     

    http://bit.ly/1texR5M

     

    Dont blame this on Malaysian airlines. The real blame should be on European flight controllers because they are the ones who approves these flight plans. They should not have allowed civilian airplanes when there were reports of BUK missile systems few days ago.
    18 Jul 2014, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • Daniel5150
    , contributor
    Comments (141) | Send Message
     
    @Ishi

     

    The absolute best piece i have seen here at SA in a very long time accurately detailing B.O. for what he actually is.And no,it's not the self proclaimed anointed one either.Once again,job well done sir.
    18 Jul 2014, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • MWinMD
    , contributor
    Comments (2527) | Send Message
     
    "Not many countries of importance backed the trade sanctions because most stopped supporting the man child in the White House. "

     

    Do you seriously believe that countries stake their positions on geopolitical matters based on what they think of the individual sitting in the president's mansion of the various countries involved, and not what they have to gain and lose from the position? Methinks you need a breath of fresh air from Fox Right Wing Noise machine, a little "time out" to get your head straight again.
    18 Jul 2014, 01:34 PM Reply Like
  • SoCalNative
    , contributor
    Comments (540) | Send Message
     
    Absolutely Fox Right Wing! Starting with Juan Williams, Shepard Smith, Alan Colmes and the uber right -winger Kirsten Powers! Nailed it bro!
    18 Jul 2014, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • arondaniel
    , contributor
    Comments (911) | Send Message
     
    "Point 3) Europe needs Russia's resources"

     

    Sure they do, but Point 4) A plane full of (mostly) Europeans were just murdered.
    18 Jul 2014, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • Boubou
    , contributor
    Comments (253) | Send Message
     
    I hope US refrains from the usual knee-jerk belligerence and threats which it uses on anyone who does not share US aims.
    It is not working and it winds all parties into hasty action.
    Relations with Russia could have been handled in a very different way. Instead we are back in a Cold War scenario.
    US has the ability to fry any and all adversaries one at a time or all at once, including the Klingon Empire. It is way beyond any existential threat.
    It can afford to be measured and generous
    18 Jul 2014, 11:41 AM Reply Like
  • SoCalNative
    , contributor
    Comments (540) | Send Message
     
    "I hope US refrains from the usual knee-jerk belligerence and threats which it uses on anyone who does not share US aims"

     

    ???? Which would those be? And on who's watch? I do agree that we are back to a cold war scenario. What about the reset button?
    18 Jul 2014, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • VelcroWonderCat
    , contributor
    Comments (32) | Send Message
     
    Sanctions should only be used against those countries and leaders who we are at war with, who profit financially or personally from intentionally engaging in long-standing human rights violations (apartheid South Africa and Robert Mugabe being Examples A & B), or who engage in such outrageous conduct that sanctions are the only remedy available short of assassination/regime change (such as if there were proof of Mr. Putin or his associates directly ordering the rebels to shoot down this plane).

     

    Otherwise, imposing sanctions is hypocritical and pointless. The US supports rebel causes all the time (Libya, Syria, etc...). And go ask Cuba and Iran how well sanctions have worked in changing their approach to the US generally and their positions on matters of international concern.
    18 Jul 2014, 04:08 PM Reply Like
  • taxman100
    , contributor
    Comments (319) | Send Message
     
    Ukraine is much more important to Russia than it should be to us, unless we are really just the collection agency for the International Monetary Fund, and the enforcer for the various weak European child-states.

     

    There are plenty of issues where the U.S. and Russia could help each other - instead we are getting involved in a pointless war.

     

    Makes me think my first paragraph above is completely accurate.
    21 Jul 2014, 02:39 PM Reply Like
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