Seeking Alpha

Herbalife gets the cold shoulder from investors

  • Shares of Herbalife (HLF -6.2%) tank on a 2x surge in volume ahead of tomorrow's webcast at 10:00 am EDT by Bill Ackman's Pershing Square Capital Management. Mr. Ackman et al. will be presenting their findings from their investigation into the company's Nutrition Clubs.
  • Interested persons may access the presentation via www.HerbalifePyramidScheme.com.
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Comments (22)
  • jzheng220wz
    , contributor
    Comments (125) | Send Message
     
    interested to see what he gonna show this time.
    21 Jul, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • june1234
    , contributor
    Comments (2651) | Send Message
     
    He's promising a "death blow". Its amazing how Ackman or Icahn can move a stock with just couple of tweets or an announcement.
    21 Jul, 08:21 PM Reply Like
  • Jeffjacobjames
    , contributor
    Comments (652) | Send Message
     
    The only show that matters is the FTC. The rest is just noise!
    21 Jul, 01:54 PM Reply Like
  • HLF Friend
    , contributor
    Comments (145) | Send Message
     
    He couldn't get a real News Show to air His Claims, he has been Disgraced on ABC . Stock is down because no Company or Insider Support till after earnings QUIET PERIOD this is a two day SHORT assault it will be over tomorrow . Earnings end of month
    21 Jul, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • stockbuyer2014
    , contributor
    Comments (127) | Send Message
     
    this is crazy. he was on cnbc today too saying this is his career on the line! http://bit.ly/1nuG71P
    21 Jul, 02:05 PM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2490) | Send Message
     
    Why do you suppose, "stockbuyer2014" Herbalife doesn't simply sue Ackman if this is "crazy?"

     

    If I had that kind of money no one would accuse me of what Ackman is accusing Herbalife of: I would sue in a minute........ unless it was all true then I suppose I would do what Herbalife is doing.... running in circles in a panic trying to discredit Ackman and the truth.
    21 Jul, 06:56 PM Reply Like
  • Ray Lopez
    , contributor
    Comments (1530) | Send Message
     
    Ackman is desperate. I know this area of the law fairly well, and while what Ackman says USED to be illegal, it no longer is. If Ackman is basing his short on Herbalife being illegal, he will lose. Multi-level marketing is now mainstream. BTW, I don't like Herbalife products (overpriced) nor do I have any skin in the game, just saying.
    22 Jul, 04:50 AM Reply Like
  • charleymart
    , contributor
    Comments (5) | Send Message
     
    Herbie is doing a terrible job in countering Ackman and they deserve whatever happens to this firm as I believe it is definitely a pyramid scheme and has cost millions of former sales people a lot of money.
    21 Jul, 02:24 PM Reply Like
  • Bouchart
    , contributor
    Comments (780) | Send Message
     
    I don't think the reason for the huge sell-off has to do with Ackman's presentation. Agree with Ackman or not, the result of his presentation is fairly predictable, and probably won't change too many minds.

     

    The share price has fallen about 10% in the course of a couple of days. Someone knows something substantive.
    21 Jul, 02:24 PM Reply Like
  • Bouchart
    , contributor
    Comments (780) | Send Message
     
    Make that 10% within the course of a day.
    21 Jul, 02:55 PM Reply Like
  • CrimeBustersNow
    , contributor
    Comments (2490) | Send Message
     
    Bouchart writes...

     

    I don't think the reason for the huge sell-off has to do with Ackman's presentation.....
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Really “Bouchhart.” It’s quite evident that Ackman with his resources was able to drag Herbalife “screaming & kicking” into the bright light of public scrutiny. And now he’s being listened to.

     

    I believe further declines in the stock price will confirm that... unless of course, there still exist enough individuals who still can’t read the “Handwriting on the Wall,” decipher what it means and continue to “pump the stock” to unrealistic and unjustifiable heights.

     

    CrimeBustersNow had the same experience with the frauds our organization destroyed, once a few media, (not the mainstream, media mind you) the public, and especially potential victims listened.

     

    The frauds collapsed before they could run the predictable course of all pyramid/Ponzi schemes with millions more defrauded (i.e. Madoff).

     

    Then years later the authorities finally moved in: So much for "consumer protection" and warnings. The authorities, mainstream media, law enforcement, government agencies, most banks, financial advisors, accountants, the BBB etc, like Albania in the late '90s actually supported the frauds we ultimately destroyed.

     

    Sound familiar?

     

    The world is about to get a replay and Ackman is about to extend CrimeBustersNow decade+ winning streak and 1000 "batting average" against fraud... Thanks Bill
    21 Jul, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • Bouchart
    , contributor
    Comments (780) | Send Message
     
    CrimeBustersNow,

     

    I think HLF is a fraud, and is ultimately worth $0.

     

    However, Ackman's presentation tomorrow is not a surprise. We've known for weeks he was going to hold it. So I don't think a bunch of HLF shareholders woke up this morning, realized that Ackman is holding a presentation tomorrow and decided to dump their shares en masse.

     

    My thinking is that there's something behind the scenes that has caused the selloff, like someone getting advanced notice that Icahn is going to sell his position.
    21 Jul, 09:01 PM Reply Like
  • charleymart
    , contributor
    Comments (5) | Send Message
     
    This company has done a terrible job in defending its marketing program against Mr. Ackman. In my opinion it is due to the firm being defenseless due to suspected to be proven, a pyramid scheme. I think that it is and it is unfortunate that millions of former applicants have lost so much, money on this phont program.
    21 Jul, 04:56 PM Reply Like
  • daro
    , contributor
    Comments (1596) | Send Message
     
    maybe icahn is getting out.
    21 Jul, 06:32 PM Reply Like
  • Bouchart
    , contributor
    Comments (780) | Send Message
     
    That's one of a few things that would move the stock this much in a day. That, or something to do with the investigations that are in process.
    21 Jul, 09:03 PM Reply Like
  • DougRk
    , contributor
    Comments (1592) | Send Message
     
    Icahn deserves to be skewered for supporting this fraudulent outfit.
    21 Jul, 06:43 PM Reply Like
  • Milhouse
    , contributor
    Comments (362) | Send Message
     
    HLF down another 2.26% after hours

     

    The price action tomorrow should be quite interesting.
    21 Jul, 08:35 PM Reply Like
  • VelcroWonderCat
    , contributor
    Comments (28) | Send Message
     
    The longer this goes on, the more Ackman looks like the boy who cried wolf. Could he end up being right? Sure. But we're far enough away in time from his initial presentation, the on-air spat with Carl, and all the rest of the noise surrounding this issue that I seriously doubt what's presented tomorrow will move the needle other than on a temporary basis. We've heard this song and seen this movie before.

     

    Meantime, as the days and months go by with seemingly no movement on the FTC/AG fronts, it becomes more and more likely that the evidence of HLF being a pyramid scheme isn't anywhere near as clear cut as some would have us believe.
    21 Jul, 09:51 PM Reply Like
  • DougRk
    , contributor
    Comments (1592) | Send Message
     
    Ackman's comments about the presentation imply far too much heft to dismiss. When he says he's betting his career, that's a big deal.

     

    Govt. front action won't decide this. Too slow, too political, too unreliable. I'm sure HLF mgmt is greasing Democrats to save themselves on that front anyway. The market will determine this more effectively. Lawsuits from cheated distributors and users as well.
    22 Jul, 09:58 AM Reply Like
  • VelcroWonderCat
    , contributor
    Comments (28) | Send Message
     
    You still think Ackman's proclamation is a big deal? After that spectacle today, if he actually placed that career bet he'd have lost, and lost huge. Even the most myopic of his followers and supporters would admit that.

     

    Maybe Bill is a man of his word -- if so, he'll keep whatever little credibility he and his bet have left and resign his position at Pershing Square.
    22 Jul, 01:24 PM Reply Like
  • DougRk
    , contributor
    Comments (1592) | Send Message
     
    It was disappointing yes. I have no skin in the game but utterly scoff at Herbalife and have for years. They're preying on the underclass to propel their pyramid. Absolutely disgusting company. That said, Ackman has probably lost the media war for good. Very sad.
    22 Jul, 01:28 PM Reply Like
  • VelcroWonderCat
    , contributor
    Comments (28) | Send Message
     
    I agree that HLF's business model (and that of other MLM's) isn't what I'd call a bastion of morality. And neither is what I (and I'm sure others) consider to be blatant stock manipulation by Mr. Ackman and Pershing Square during the past 19 or so months. There are plenty of dirty hands to go around...

     

    But whether HLF is actually pyramid or not is a legal issue which the FTC and various AG's are investigating. So other than his pure hubris and need to try and garner returns that beat the S&P for his investors, I just don't understand why Ackman continued with this unrelenting public campaign against HLF. He should have just waited for the regulators and authorities to do their job -- now his cause is probably lost, as is his credibility.
    22 Jul, 01:53 PM Reply Like
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